Very interesting content, hope to see other videos like this. Unfortunately this is the perfect example of how also (well known) racing engines can fail. I just can imagine the money and tears spent around this beauty. Keep the good work going on mate. Thanks for sharing ❤
Hey Motomillion! Just throwing ideas out there to help you with the idea of a coffee table, I know you said you wanted to add some pistons to try and make a support for the glass top, what do you think of adding a full exhaust from headers to slip-on it. It would go on like a normal exhaust and have some of the pipes custom made to curve up to the top of the engine and have the tip of the slip-on be the support of the glass top for the other side of the engine. Let me add a blue titanium touch to the exhaust. Love you videos man!
I have a great VE Commodore Engine (Australian) in my living room, that my son made when he swapped out engines. It's a great talking piece. An M 1000 engine would be the ducks guts. The piston idea is the way to go. Good luck with it, can't wait to see the finished product.
@@MotomillionI get it. It's exhausting. I will tell you that I had to chase them on a warranty claim, and they eventually made it right. With persistence I was able to prove they were in the wrong. Mine was not even a large claim, but it was principal that they should stand behind their warranty and product.
I purchased a BMW data recorder and had my dealer install it on my 21 S1kRR. Dealer installed it, but said they couldn't activate it because the EWS module (ignition) and ECU did not match. The dealer informed me that I needed to purchase a new module to match the ECU for the system to function. I told them nothing had been touched on the bike, but the dealer still refused and charged me anyway. (Denver) I escalated it up to BMW NA who provided a new ignition switch and covered installation. BMW Denver banned me because I went over their heads. Told them fine, I'll take my disposable income somewhere else.
Common issue in the racing community that nobody wants to talk about. I’ve nuked 3 engines now, 2 of which had that same failure. It’s not my place to try to elaborate but what we’ve learned, I’m not the expert, but heat soaking and warm up are very important as well as extended break in periods. The factory rod bearing tolerances are too tight and will seize/spin under imperfect conditions. There’s a reason why our race electronics have an oil priming mode prior to startup. Keep in mind that the titanium rods of the M heat/expand at a different rate than the rest of the engine metals which is another factor. Suffice to say they are finicky at best.
Great video....first time I got to see the engine by itself...... Btw what is the weight of the engine... Did u ever get To weigh it? Just for knowledge purpose.....
Great to have an update on this, really appreciate you guys sharing the damaged engine. I still think how BMW handled the issue was really cr*ppy, however how Motomillion chose to respond was a real class act. The previous video you guys did about the failure was professional and well done. The information provided swayed me from getting an M1k to compliment my V4SP2 and I ended up with the Honda Fireblade (couldn't be happier with my decision, after some mods and tuning the Fireblade is inssane).
It would be nice to know which bearings failed on the OTHER motor failures, as that would also be a good indication if it was a design flaw somehow causing oiling issues to the same cylinder...bet there is never going to be an announcement regarding that though... Hopefully this was resolved in the 2024's...since I bought one...LOL...I dont want a matching table....
It could be a few things including the oil galley's themselves. 1. The tolerances require an extended break in period before hard use. The galleys could be fine or cylinder 2 could be getting low pressure that combined with a bearing that's not letting oil out is disaster. And I do see heat scoring. Another thing that's not talked about is harmonics. Sometimes everything is engineered perfectly, but some random harmonics cause a part to wear excessively or receive an unintended or unaccounted for load.
Also could be that cylinder 2's bore was not 100% square so the piston was traveling at a slight angle of a few thousanths that would cause the bearing to unevenly load but that would be obvious because the bearing would have been completely worn on one side and not worn at all on the other side when it spun. From what I remember it was completely disintegrated? Hard to tell really.
Was there any evidence of fretting marks on the rod cap mating surfaces? Would also be great to get the rods out, cleaned up, torqued and measure the big end journals for tolerance with a bore gauge. Another thing that can lead to damaged big end bearings in a situation like this is incorrect piston to bore clearance. If too tight, the piston can grab the bore when it expands with heat and accelerate BE bearing wear.
Okay, now I understand when I initially sent the comment I only just started watching so I didn’t see the whole thing… with all due respect to the experts that you spoke to…. I still don’t mind having it even for a price is it for sale?
That's typically a issue from oil starvation and is probably important to know the oil path to make that conclusion? Very surprised to see a BMW engine to fail that way.
@@Motomillion you're thinking it's a design issue? If that's the case you'd see them failing left and right but could totally be possible. It's safe to say it's a BMW thang🤣
I wonder if the builder touched the bearing with his bare fingers and forgot to wipe it off and reoil / lube it back again? Bearings don't like skin oil.
I think I can add my 2 cents as an expert. I agree with your other expert opinions. A defective bearing is possible, but not likely. The manufacturing tolerances may have been to tight, but not likely. You'll never know 100%, because you can't see or measure the original bearing before it failed. This is an oil failure. Technically it's called "micro welding". That's technically what caused your bearing to fail. Here's the rest of the story. Modern manufacturing is to good for these mistakes. I know it happens, but it's damn rare. The oil is the problem. The EPA keeps messing with fuel efficient oils. Big companies sign contracts with oil companies, I think it's ExxonMobil in this case, & the original oil fill from the factory is not the optimal. I know, the engineers who designed the engine know what's the best. The problem is, they don't have any say in what oil goes in the engine. You & I think it's crazy not to put the very best oil in the new engine. But big companies like BMW have some crazy rules they have to comply with. It would take me hours to explain all the regulations that come into effect. Suffice it to say, the original oil in the engine is barely capable of handling your high performance motor. Internally, BMW takes the attitude that loosing a few new engines is just part of the price they pay. But in this case, you paid the price. Wasn't the high RPM limit switched off early on this engine? Wasn't that was the reason they denied warranty? Be that as it may, ideally the engine should've had Break-in oil in the new engine. Very few companies use Break-in oil, which also creates problems for other engines that I'm extremely familiar with. When any manufacture builds thousands of engines, the "Bell Curve" of standard deviation comes into effect. Some engines will have perfect piston ring & bearing clearances. Most will have clearances with-in the acceptable range. But a tiny few will be less than perfect. Nobody knows which engines those are. You can only hope you didn't buy one. However, this is the purpose of Break-in oil. Break-in oil is for the few engines that need a little help seating the bearings & piston rings. The EPA has forced fleet CAFE fuel economy standards on every manufacture. Those fuel efficient oils don't have the high levels of zinc, ZDDP, that's normally found in Break-in oil. When you have an engine with slightly less than perfect tolerances, & push it a little harder than it's ready for, you get what happened to your engine. Another owner could have piston rings that slightly scored a cylinder wall, & his engine tends to burn more oil than normal. I hate to tell you, manufactures don't recommend the very best oil for their engines. They recommend oil from oil companies who pay them for the privilege of being on the recommended list. ExxonMobil also pays for all the oil distribution & storage equipment in the dealership. Your dealer recommends the oil that pays them the most. Even after the Break-in, BMW recommended oil is NOT the best oil for the engine. Of course this sets off everybody's opinion about the BEST oil. Let me be as blunt as possible. Very very few mechanics or educated owners know anything about oil. If you can't explain in great detail, API, JASO, ACEA, NOACK Volatility, HTHS, Viscosity Index, zinc, API Group's 1 thru 5, PAO, Ester, PAG, & 2 dozen other oil technical properties & their maximum & minimum specifications; you don't know enough about oil. So what should you use for Break-in & normal oil? For any high performance wet clutch motorcycle engine. Maxima Break-in oil is great. Any other similar brand & type is ok. Dump the original factory oil in the new engine. Replace the oil filter with a new genuine BMW oil filter with the biggest & strongest magnet stuck to the bottom of the oil filter. This will capture the tiny metal dust in the oil. You can keep transferring the magnet to each new oil filter. Fill the engine with the correct Break-in oil. If you can, fill the oil filter with oil before you replace the filter. I run the new engine up to operating temperature for about 100 miles. Put a load on the engine with no more than 70% throttle. Change the Break-in oil & filter after 100 miles. Do the same type of 70% throttle for another 300 miles, & change the Break-in oil & filter again. Run the engine under a load with a maximum 80% throttle for 500 miles. Now you're ready for the normal oil.& normal throttle. I prefer Red Line 15W/50 Power Sports for the main oil in normal Summer weather. If you ride where the ambient temperature goes over 100F, you race, or do track days, Red Line 20W/60 Power Sports is the best. Motul 300V is also very good. Red Line beats Motul 300V with more zinc. BMW & the EPA don't want high levels of zinc in the oil, because it poisons the Catalytic Converter. I've used Red Line Power Sports with over 2000 ppm of zinc for over 200K miles in the same engine. The Catalytic Converter still works fine. It's crappy or dirty oil that blows past the piston rings & poisons the CAT. Good clean oil doesn't get into the CAT. You can buy a lot of CAT's for $15,000. Your main bearings failed because the oil didn't have enough zinc.... And you probably over revved the engine. Zinc is the last line of defense when metal on metal gets so hot the metal surfaces "micro weld" together. And that's exactly what yours did. Don't think you can dump a bunch of zinc oil additive in your oil & that will solve the problem. The chemical formulation of really good oil should not be messed with.
Really appreciate this response. The break in limiter was turned off at the interval indicated in the manual. Manual states first service is 350-700 miles. We did it at 368-369 miles. You must agree, even a 9k rpm limit on the engine is fast enough for any failure to happen. The bike was never over revved. The top end rev limiter was still in place.
@@Motomillion I completely agree, the engine should be able to take what you were doing. The problem is BMW has to use a certain type of oil to comply with EPA emissions. The oil is barely able to withstand this level of performance. Like I said, if you buy an engine that’s not absolutely perfect, it may fail from the effects of micro welding in just the wrong circumstances. BMW can’t use oil with more zinc, because they must protect the CAT. But you don’t have to go along with their problem. Sadly this is what owners of this type of engine need to understand. Of course BMW will never admit the problem. They just comply with the regulations, and in you case that wasn’t good enough.
These high RPM big horsepower engines need the film strength of a 20W/60 Ester synthetic oil in hot weather. Stop listening to everyone’s opinions, and learn how to read the oil’s technical specifications in their Material Data Sheets. HTHS (High Temperature High Shear) is the oil’s film strength at high temperatures and high RPMs. The higher the HTHS value, the better the oil protects when bearings and piston rings get really hot. The HTHS of Red Line 20W/60 is 7. The BMW recommended oil’s HTHS is 2.8. Which do you want in your engine when you have the throttle pinned? When these engines are used for racing, they use a much lower viscosity oil to achieve the maximum power. Ducati has their own “real” race oil that cost $60 per quart and must be changed every 600 miles. Plus the engine will require frequent overhauls. If you can benefit from the extra power and can afford the high maintenance cost, go for it. For most riders, they want the best protection for the engine. The Viscosity Index is another critical factor. 20W/60 has the highest possible VI (Viscosity Index). VI measures the oil’s ability to maintain its viscosity at high temperatures. The higher the VI, the better the oil. If you ride in milder ambient temperatures and don’t flog the engine, you can use Red Line 15W/50 Power Sport. They also offer 10W/50. I wouldn’t go below that in a high performance motorcycle engine. Oil companies and engine manufacturers don’t make it easy for consumers to educate themselves about oil specifications.
@@tomstephens5024 You seem to know you oils!, im also trying to educate myself on the extensive interactions that oil has throught the engine. Im running 7100 motul 10W50, on a 2024 RSV4 Factory, but as you've mentioned strikes me as just barely adequate for the VERY high temps in the south of Spain, (we've been seeing 42ºC's in the noons these days), im not racing her, but dealing with traffic makes us both sweat a lot in these conditions. Would you play with viscosity beyond specifications in this case?
still can't get when you add a tune you void any warranty even if you put the factory tune back they can still see it and if you do not break an engine at that level in right before you unlock it and turn those rpm you stretch the connecting rods and it will destroy bearings plain and simple that motor should have had 2 or three thousand miles on it before you ring it out with a tune on a dyno not all are misinformed of how engines work it failed yes it was however your fault period
Hey Many, I don’t understand Bro why not Just buy a cheap engine tables? Replica engine tables there’s loads of them out there why don’t you rebuild this engine or even modify it? There’s so much you can do with the engine if you don’t know what to do with it, I’ll have it thanks very much 😁I no longer work on engines, but for that. I’ll start again cause I’m injured now but for that I will start again. I mean it doesn’t make sense. You can stick it back on a bike. You can modify the hell out of it and make it a drag bike, the possibilities are endless, or just flat out turn it into a race engine bike….. I’ll take it if you of your hands if you want…😁✌🏼👍🏼
Ok cool… what exactly happened if you don’t mind me asking???!!!! Btw that bike is new right and did it happen while breaking it in or after modification And if so what was done to the bike up to that point?! Sorry don’t mean to sound like a detective 😂
Was gonna get an s1k base for 19k. But the risk of it blowing even untuned is crazy. Even a brand new bike tuned from the beginning should never blow this is ridiculous. You dont have to have really good knowledge of engines to understand it should never grenade at such low miles. When it blows at miles this low, it's a given something was off from factory.
@@Motomillion I've seen videos where certain companies don't want to mention Motomillion directly, but they'll say something like "those people that blew up their motor" and how it was your fault, etc.
@@Motomillion looks like he 's killing the Pizza 🍕 Ducati Bros About that in few days i will be at the World Ducati week What about U? Bro Mani Come it will be fun...
@@Motomillion he gets bored though and likes to experiment. Maybe.not what he’s interested in but maybe there is something that could be done, nice thought though :)
Would be nice to know why warranty was refused? Most common mistake what ppl keeps making whit modern motorsporting, specailly in Amg, Rs, M line cars/motorcycles is when they start decide that my engine is a race engine. They pick up coolest looking oilcan from market where is coolest picture and says RACING 15W50. issue is that when you pick thicker oil, it cant form film between these thin bearing tolerances what these engines has these days. Allways match your oil, whit your engine bearing tolerances. Not what can looks best in store.
and this is why I will never BT my M1000RR engine that hasn't even had a proper break-in. So many people that are so smart but have never designed an engine
I follow you closely and i commented on previous videos, but there is new video from BT in the workshop of Bmw and product manager explained how your claim can be denied. They were pointing on you obviusly and lack of your understanding why u got denied, yet you bashed bmw. It would be nice to hear your oppinion on that? Thank you in advance..
I did not bash BMW, watch my video again, the whole thing. They haven't even taken a close look at this engine to determine an exact cause. They just wanted to wash their hands clean.
I can sympathise with you, that your engine failed, and you had to pay for a new engine because BMW denied your claim... I don't see the purpose of testing the bearing material, it may even reveal a flaw, but the crux of it is had you not breached the terms of the manufacturers warranty conditions, they may have paid your claim, your actions, buy not adhering to the run in limiter removal mileage and service interval, tuning it then posting a video of it being blown up on the dyno definitely didn't help your case... I am not a hater, as I said I sympathise with you, but it was your actions, by breaching the warranty conditions that caused the claim to be denied.and not the type of damage to the engine.if you had followed the proper procedure you would have not given BMW a reason not to honour the claim, what happened is tragic, but unfortunately by your own actions, its your cake and your gonna need to eat it.
Dont cry Many, it doesn't look good for you and the name brand. The FACT is that you didnt wait for the 650 breakin miles and you know that you made a mistake by doing so, so suck it up, and be a man and not Caren! 🎉
Glass cannon engine ..... maximum HP zero consideration for non race / road use... The toyota 3 pot that blew up on their GR's sounds similar. same as KTM 790 camshafts. Theres a reason we older/wiser guys buy older 2nd hand proven designs...
In the end it turns out that all the hype regarding German engineering and builds is just bogus. German motorcycles and cars are just as reliable or unreliable as Italian engineered and built motorcycles and cars. If I would buy a new motorcycle it would either be an Italian, Ducati, MV Augusta or Aprilia in that order, or if it was a cruiser a Harley Davidson cruiser (which I now own). These brands offer nicer bikes to look at. I would never buy a German car because of it's brand name. And for cars I go Italian, simply because they are better looking and I have owned a few. Hardly any issues, as with my Harley or previously owned Ducati Streetfighter 1098, aside from normal wear and tear.
Love the attitude of making something positive out of something that was negative!
Life is too short not to enjoy it to the fullest!
Very interesting content, hope to see other videos like this.
Unfortunately this is the perfect example of how also (well known) racing engines can fail. I just can imagine the money and tears spent around this beauty.
Keep the good work going on mate.
Thanks for sharing ❤
Hey Motomillion! Just throwing ideas out there to help you with the idea of a coffee table, I know you said you wanted to add some pistons to try and make a support for the glass top, what do you think of adding a full exhaust from headers to slip-on it. It would go on like a normal exhaust and have some of the pipes custom made to curve up to the top of the engine and have the tip of the slip-on be the support of the glass top for the other side of the engine. Let me add a blue titanium touch to the exhaust. Love you videos man!
Wow, never thought about it. Maybe an exhaust installed upside down may work!
I would send that coffee table to BMW so that every time they see it, they remember your case and what you paid for.
If they only cared 1 bit.
Unfortunately,corporates don't give a single f to the consumers.
Right up my alley. Cant wait to see the finished product.
I have a great VE Commodore Engine (Australian) in my living room, that my son made when he swapped out engines. It's a great talking piece. An M 1000 engine would be the ducks guts. The piston idea is the way to go. Good luck with it, can't wait to see the finished product.
Anxiously awaiting the expert analysis on the bearing. If it's in your favor, I would definitely revisit the claim with BMW NA.
I don’t think they have any intention to make things right, nor do we have the energy to chase them.
@@MotomillionI get it. It's exhausting. I will tell you that I had to chase them on a warranty claim, and they eventually made it right. With persistence I was able to prove they were in the wrong. Mine was not even a large claim, but it was principal that they should stand behind their warranty and product.
@@thejmfloragroupwhat was your defective item if you don't mind?
I purchased a BMW data recorder and had my dealer install it on my 21 S1kRR. Dealer installed it, but said they couldn't activate it because the EWS module (ignition) and ECU did not match. The dealer informed me that I needed to purchase a new module to match the ECU for the system to function. I told them nothing had been touched on the bike, but the dealer still refused and charged me anyway. (Denver) I escalated it up to BMW NA who provided a new ignition switch and covered installation. BMW Denver banned me because I went over their heads. Told them fine, I'll take my disposable income somewhere else.
Common issue in the racing community that nobody wants to talk about. I’ve nuked 3 engines now, 2 of which had that same failure. It’s not my place to try to elaborate but what we’ve learned, I’m not the expert, but heat soaking and warm up are very important as well as extended break in periods. The factory rod bearing tolerances are too tight and will seize/spin under imperfect conditions. There’s a reason why our race electronics have an oil priming mode prior to startup. Keep in mind that the titanium rods of the M heat/expand at a different rate than the rest of the engine metals which is another factor. Suffice to say they are finicky at best.
The titanium rods expanding at a different rate has never been the thought, but this is a very good point!
Exactly! They built a 1 off machine it needs to be scientifically broken in
Great video....first time I got to see the engine by itself...... Btw what is the weight of the engine... Did u ever get To weigh it? Just for knowledge purpose.....
Great to have an update on this, really appreciate you guys sharing the damaged engine. I still think how BMW handled the issue was really cr*ppy, however how Motomillion chose to respond was a real class act. The previous video you guys did about the failure was professional and well done.
The information provided swayed me from getting an M1k to compliment my V4SP2 and I ended up with the Honda Fireblade (couldn't be happier with my decision, after some mods and tuning the Fireblade is inssane).
Thank you for the kind words! The Fireblade is definitely a gem in the superbike world!
Great video what bike stand bench is that? I want1
Can that motor be used in a 21 s1000rr frame?
Along with the ecu?
It would be nice to know which bearings failed on the OTHER motor failures, as that would also be a good indication if it was a design flaw somehow causing oiling issues to the same cylinder...bet there is never going to be an announcement regarding that though... Hopefully this was resolved in the 2024's...since I bought one...LOL...I dont want a matching table....
If enough engines break, maybe we can get into the furniture business next...
The engine looks factory fresh...apart from number 2 bearing 😮 You could get a fair bit of money for the gearbox, clutch, head etc
Could even get second hand parts and rebuild it to sell. But a lot of work...
What if the problem is the oil galleys in the block? And Second cylinder rod bearing gives up again?
@@Motomillion yeah guess that would need to be confirmed also. Table will be a nice addition to the office anyway!
It could be a few things including the oil galley's themselves.
1. The tolerances require an extended break in period before hard use. The galleys could be fine or cylinder 2 could be getting low pressure that combined with a bearing that's not letting oil out is disaster. And I do see heat scoring.
Another thing that's not talked about is harmonics. Sometimes everything is engineered perfectly, but some random harmonics cause a part to wear excessively or receive an unintended or unaccounted for load.
Also could be that cylinder 2's bore was not 100% square so the piston was traveling at a slight angle of a few thousanths that would cause the bearing to unevenly load but that would be obvious because the bearing would have been completely worn on one side and not worn at all on the other side when it spun. From what I remember it was completely disintegrated? Hard to tell really.
Was there any evidence of fretting marks on the rod cap mating surfaces? Would also be great to get the rods out, cleaned up, torqued and measure the big end journals for tolerance with a bore gauge. Another thing that can lead to damaged big end bearings in a situation like this is incorrect piston to bore clearance. If too tight, the piston can grab the bore when it expands with heat and accelerate BE bearing wear.
Very good point. THe cylinder walls were really clean, no marks. The dealer stuck a camera in there the first day they received the bike.
@@Motomillion got it. You’d definitely see marks in the bore with that scenario
Look like its possible to fix?
Nice torque specs bro!! 😂❤
The best!
Okay, now I understand when I initially sent the comment I only just started watching so I didn’t see the whole thing… with all due respect to the experts that you spoke to…. I still don’t mind having it even for a price is it for sale?
That's typically a issue from oil starvation and is probably important to know the oil path to make that conclusion? Very surprised to see a BMW engine to fail that way.
Just google E46 M3 and E92 M3 rod bearing problems.
@@Motomillion you're thinking it's a design issue? If that's the case you'd see them failing left and right but could totally be possible. It's safe to say it's a BMW thang🤣
They have plenty of issues
I think that table would be way cooler if you put the factory headers in. Or put an exhaust as well. Just my 2 cents tho.
Someone mentioned this too, I think we may be able to fit a set of Arrow headers on it too!
It DEF needs a clear clutch cover!! :D
Negative to positive!!! If only everybody had that attitude!!!
Life is short.
lets goooo!!!!!!
I wonder if the builder touched the bearing with his bare fingers and forgot to wipe it off and reoil / lube it back again? Bearings don't like skin oil.
We have no idea. Something was wrong with this engine for sure.
Nothing like a 15k coffee table. 😂 Great video. Still shocked BMW didn’t reach out to make it right.
You and me both!
That trash of an engine do not deserve to be exposed like that. It belongs in the bin
I think I can add my 2 cents as an expert. I agree with your other expert opinions. A defective bearing is possible, but not likely. The manufacturing tolerances may have been to tight, but not likely. You'll never know 100%, because you can't see or measure the original bearing before it failed. This is an oil failure. Technically it's called "micro welding". That's technically what caused your bearing to fail. Here's the rest of the story. Modern manufacturing is to good for these mistakes. I know it happens, but it's damn rare. The oil is the problem. The EPA keeps messing with fuel efficient oils. Big companies sign contracts with oil companies, I think it's ExxonMobil in this case, & the original oil fill from the factory is not the optimal. I know, the engineers who designed the engine know what's the best. The problem is, they don't have any say in what oil goes in the engine. You & I think it's crazy not to put the very best oil in the new engine. But big companies like BMW have some crazy rules they have to comply with. It would take me hours to explain all the regulations that come into effect. Suffice it to say, the original oil in the engine is barely capable of handling your high performance motor. Internally, BMW takes the attitude that loosing a few new engines is just part of the price they pay. But in this case, you paid the price. Wasn't the high RPM limit switched off early on this engine? Wasn't that was the reason they denied warranty? Be that as it may, ideally the engine should've had Break-in oil in the new engine. Very few companies use Break-in oil, which also creates problems for other engines that I'm extremely familiar with. When any manufacture builds thousands of engines, the "Bell Curve" of standard deviation comes into effect. Some engines will have perfect piston ring & bearing clearances. Most will have clearances with-in the acceptable range. But a tiny few will be less than perfect. Nobody knows which engines those are. You can only hope you didn't buy one. However, this is the purpose of Break-in oil. Break-in oil is for the few engines that need a little help seating the bearings & piston rings. The EPA has forced fleet CAFE fuel economy standards on every manufacture. Those fuel efficient oils don't have the high levels of zinc, ZDDP, that's normally found in Break-in oil. When you have an engine with slightly less than perfect tolerances, & push it a little harder than it's ready for, you get what happened to your engine. Another owner could have piston rings that slightly scored a cylinder wall, & his engine tends to burn more oil than normal. I hate to tell you, manufactures don't recommend the very best oil for their engines. They recommend oil from oil companies who pay them for the privilege of being on the recommended list. ExxonMobil also pays for all the oil distribution & storage equipment in the dealership. Your dealer recommends the oil that pays them the most. Even after the Break-in, BMW recommended oil is NOT the best oil for the engine. Of course this sets off everybody's opinion about the BEST oil. Let me be as blunt as possible. Very very few mechanics or educated owners know anything about oil. If you can't explain in great detail, API, JASO, ACEA, NOACK Volatility, HTHS, Viscosity Index, zinc, API Group's 1 thru 5, PAO, Ester, PAG, & 2 dozen other oil technical properties & their maximum & minimum specifications; you don't know enough about oil. So what should you use for Break-in & normal oil? For any high performance wet clutch motorcycle engine. Maxima Break-in oil is great. Any other similar brand & type is ok. Dump the original factory oil in the new engine. Replace the oil filter with a new genuine BMW oil filter with the biggest & strongest magnet stuck to the bottom of the oil filter. This will capture the tiny metal dust in the oil. You can keep transferring the magnet to each new oil filter. Fill the engine with the correct Break-in oil. If you can, fill the oil filter with oil before you replace the filter. I run the new engine up to operating temperature for about 100 miles. Put a load on the engine with no more than 70% throttle. Change the Break-in oil & filter after 100 miles. Do the same type of 70% throttle for another 300 miles, & change the Break-in oil & filter again. Run the engine under a load with a maximum 80% throttle for 500 miles. Now you're ready for the normal oil.& normal throttle. I prefer Red Line 15W/50 Power Sports for the main oil in normal Summer weather. If you ride where the ambient temperature goes over 100F, you race, or do track days, Red Line 20W/60 Power Sports is the best. Motul 300V is also very good. Red Line beats Motul 300V with more zinc. BMW & the EPA don't want high levels of zinc in the oil, because it poisons the Catalytic Converter. I've used Red Line Power Sports with over 2000 ppm of zinc for over 200K miles in the same engine. The Catalytic Converter still works fine. It's crappy or dirty oil that blows past the piston rings & poisons the CAT. Good clean oil doesn't get into the CAT. You can buy a lot of CAT's for $15,000. Your main bearings failed because the oil didn't have enough zinc.... And you probably over revved the engine. Zinc is the last line of defense when metal on metal gets so hot the metal surfaces "micro weld" together. And that's exactly what yours did. Don't think you can dump a bunch of zinc oil additive in your oil & that will solve the problem. The chemical formulation of really good oil should not be messed with.
Really appreciate this response. The break in limiter was turned off at the interval indicated in the manual. Manual states first service is 350-700 miles. We did it at 368-369 miles. You must agree, even a 9k rpm limit on the engine is fast enough for any failure to happen. The bike was never over revved. The top end rev limiter was still in place.
@@Motomillion I completely agree, the engine should be able to take what you were doing. The problem is BMW has to use a certain type of oil to comply with EPA emissions. The oil is barely able to withstand this level of performance. Like I said, if you buy an engine that’s not absolutely perfect, it may fail from the effects of micro welding in just the wrong circumstances. BMW can’t use oil with more zinc, because they must protect the CAT. But you don’t have to go along with their problem. Sadly this is what owners of this type of engine need to understand. Of course BMW will never admit the problem. They just comply with the regulations, and in you case that wasn’t good enough.
@@tomstephens5024so redline 20w60 for the S1k? 😅
These high RPM big horsepower engines need the film strength of a 20W/60 Ester synthetic oil in hot weather. Stop listening to everyone’s opinions, and learn how to read the oil’s technical specifications in their Material Data Sheets. HTHS (High Temperature High Shear) is the oil’s film strength at high temperatures and high RPMs. The higher the HTHS value, the better the oil protects when bearings and piston rings get really hot. The HTHS of Red Line 20W/60 is 7. The BMW recommended oil’s HTHS is 2.8. Which do you want in your engine when you have the throttle pinned?
When these engines are used for racing, they use a much lower viscosity oil to achieve the maximum power. Ducati has their own “real” race oil that cost $60 per quart and must be changed every 600 miles. Plus the engine will require frequent overhauls. If you can benefit from the extra power and can afford the high maintenance cost, go for it. For most riders, they want the best protection for the engine. The Viscosity Index is another critical factor. 20W/60 has the highest possible VI (Viscosity Index). VI measures the oil’s ability to maintain its viscosity at high temperatures. The higher the VI, the better the oil. If you ride in milder ambient temperatures and don’t flog the engine, you can use Red Line 15W/50 Power Sport. They also offer 10W/50. I wouldn’t go below that in a high performance motorcycle engine.
Oil companies and engine manufacturers don’t make it easy for consumers to educate themselves about oil specifications.
@@tomstephens5024 You seem to know you oils!, im also trying to educate myself on the extensive interactions that oil has throught the engine.
Im running 7100 motul 10W50, on a 2024 RSV4 Factory, but as you've mentioned strikes me as just barely adequate for the VERY high temps in the south of Spain, (we've been seeing 42ºC's in the noons these days), im not racing her, but dealing with traffic makes us both sweat a lot in these conditions.
Would you play with viscosity beyond specifications in this case?
Why not use forks as legs?
still can't get when you add a tune you void any warranty even if you put the factory tune back they can still see it and if you do not break an engine at that level in right before you unlock it and turn those rpm you stretch the connecting rods and it will destroy bearings plain and simple that motor should have had 2 or three thousand miles on it before you ring it out with a tune on a dyno not all are misinformed of how engines work it failed yes it was however your fault period
Hey Many, I don’t understand Bro why not Just buy a cheap engine tables? Replica engine tables there’s loads of them out there why don’t you rebuild this engine or even modify it? There’s so much you can do with the engine if you don’t know what to do with it, I’ll have it thanks very much 😁I no longer work on engines, but for that. I’ll start again cause I’m injured now but for that I will start again. I mean it doesn’t make sense. You can stick it back on a bike. You can modify the hell out of it and make it a drag bike, the possibilities are endless, or just flat out turn it into a race engine bike….. I’ll take it if you of your hands if you want…😁✌🏼👍🏼
We want to have it as a reminder of what happened.
Ok cool… what exactly happened if you don’t mind me asking???!!!! Btw that bike is new right and did it happen while breaking it in or after modification And if so what was done to the bike up to that point?! Sorry don’t mean to sound like a detective 😂
Can't you just get a new crank and main bearings?
Was gonna get an s1k base for 19k. But the risk of it blowing even untuned is crazy. Even a brand new bike tuned from the beginning should never blow this is ridiculous. You dont have to have really good knowledge of engines to understand it should never grenade at such low miles. When it blows at miles this low, it's a given something was off from factory.
wearing jeans in the middle of July is crazy lmao
Turn up the A/C!
So much shade being thrown around online about this event. 😬
Define shade please.
@@Motomillion I've seen videos where certain companies don't want to mention Motomillion directly, but they'll say something like "those people that blew up their motor" and how it was your fault, etc.
Toprak is mad now bro😅
He is doing pretty good!
@@Motomillion looks like he 's killing the Pizza 🍕 Ducati Bros
About that in few days i will be at the World Ducati week What about U?
Bro Mani Come it will be fun...
Don’t just build a table, do a collaboration with Blacktail studio and do something unique and amazing with Cam.
Their tables are awesome, but mostly stone or wood. We want the top to be completely see through.
@@Motomillion he gets bored though and likes to experiment. Maybe.not what he’s interested in but maybe there is something that could be done, nice thought though :)
Would be nice to know why warranty was refused? Most common mistake what ppl keeps making whit modern motorsporting, specailly in Amg, Rs, M line cars/motorcycles is when they start decide that my engine is a race engine. They pick up coolest looking oilcan from market where is coolest picture and says RACING 15W50. issue is that when you pick thicker oil, it cant form film between these thin bearing tolerances what these engines has these days. Allways match your oil, whit your engine bearing tolerances. Not what can looks best in store.
That’s why I’ll never buy a BMW motorcycle even though I want one. That’s putrid that they wouldn’t cover it.
and this is why I will never BT my M1000RR engine that hasn't even had a proper break-in. So many people that are so smart but have never designed an engine
Did they use E92 M3 bearing for this motorcycle😂 you know how all their E92 M3’s had to have the bearings replaced around 70k miles 🤦🏻♂️
BMW should get with Toyota and build coffee tables out of all their boat anchor engines
Shame on BMW 😢
Same issue and Bmw void warranty and told bike is modificated. All stock.
except this guy tuned the bike and didn't break it in....
Yes i know, thats why i keep my bike full stock as well, but Bmw still denies earranty and told bike is modificated. Nothing more
The bike was broken in as per their manual. 350-700 miles is indicated first service in the manual.
@@Motomillion i know Your story, but my bike 100% stock, engine stucked and Bmw void warranty as bike is modificated. But zero modification done.
@@Motomillion ah but it wasn't, there's video proof of you saying otherwise and that you don't believe in break in periods....
The BMW Motorrad warranty department is a group of scumbags.
Mv agusta build next!
Is MV Agusta USA watching? They should reach out to us!
I follow you closely and i commented on previous videos, but there is new video from BT in the workshop of Bmw and product manager explained how your claim can be denied. They were pointing on you obviusly and lack of your understanding why u got denied, yet you bashed bmw. It would be nice to hear your oppinion on that?
Thank you in advance..
I did not bash BMW, watch my video again, the whole thing. They haven't even taken a close look at this engine to determine an exact cause. They just wanted to wash their hands clean.
it's gonna be hard for you to make, this requires some customisation and ideas, you cant just bolt shit to it like you do all your bikes
We are going to bolt stuff on this too, don’t you worry.
@@Motomillion and you will struggle
I can sympathise with you, that your engine failed, and you had to pay for a new engine because BMW denied your claim...
I don't see the purpose of testing the bearing material, it may even reveal a flaw, but the crux of it is had you not breached the terms of the manufacturers warranty conditions, they may have paid your claim, your actions, buy not adhering to the run in limiter removal mileage and service interval, tuning it then posting a video of it being blown up on the dyno definitely didn't help your case...
I am not a hater, as I said I sympathise with you, but it was your actions, by breaching the warranty conditions that caused the claim to be denied.and not the type of damage to the engine.if you had followed the proper procedure you would have not given BMW a reason not to honour the claim, what happened is tragic, but unfortunately by your own actions, its your cake and your gonna need to eat it.
Dont cry Many, it doesn't look good for you and the name brand. The FACT is that you didnt wait for the 650 breakin miles and you know that you made a mistake by doing so, so suck it up, and be a man and not Caren! 🎉
Manual states first service is 350-700 miles. We did it at 368-369 miles.
just have BT cover your engine
There is 3 m1000rr in emirates blown engines ….😂😂😂😂😂😂
Anyway i will buy this table for 2000$ but free shipping 👍
Shipping must be even more than that alone!
They can make 3 coffee tables!
@@Motomillion 👍👍👍😂😂😂
Glass cannon engine ..... maximum HP zero consideration for non race / road use...
The toyota 3 pot that blew up on their GR's sounds similar. same as KTM 790 camshafts.
Theres a reason we older/wiser guys buy older 2nd hand proven designs...
In the end it turns out that all the hype regarding German engineering and builds is just bogus. German motorcycles and cars are just as reliable or unreliable as Italian engineered and built motorcycles and cars. If I would buy a new motorcycle it would either be an Italian, Ducati, MV Augusta or Aprilia in that order, or if it was a cruiser a Harley Davidson cruiser (which I now own). These brands offer nicer bikes to look at. I would never buy a German car because of it's brand name. And for cars I go Italian, simply because they are better looking and I have owned a few. Hardly any issues, as with my Harley or previously owned Ducati Streetfighter 1098, aside from normal wear and tear.
Good customer service BMW.... NOT.
Next time break it properly and don't put it on Dyno with 450 miles on bike
Anything German stay away. $$$$$ to fix.
Show me the engine you broke go ahead .