I know this video is a little longer than most I do. I put video Chapter Points in the description so you can skip straight to the part you find most interesting.
I am very interested in this project as I am considering doing a conversation on a farmal h or an allis Chalmers D17. Having used loader tractors for years I would seriously consider a separate motor to run the hydraulics you will want live power on the loader hydraulics all the time but when you come to a stop and raise the bucket to dump you won't want to keep the motor cranked up plus if you put the gear pump on the back shaft of the electric motor you loss the ability to reverse the motor to back the tractor up. The gear pump won't take running backwards. Also avoid reversing the motor with the pto running as the attachment won't take well to being reversed. But I am seriously considering a separate motor to run a 12 hp hydraulic pump for my system. Another reason is I run a wood splitter on my tractors. A dedicated motor would allow me to size the motor to the load and run more efficiently when I only need hydraulics.
Oh that 21 spline shaft is a standard 1000 pto shaft. My John Deere 930 mower conditioner uses that on the pto. There is a coupling which attaches to the gearbox on the mower that has the same 21 spline shaft but has a slot cut in the side and a half inch bolt to lock it on the spline. That would slide on without having to disassemble the locking collar to remove the ball lock. But any 1000 pto shaft will fit that motor spline.
Great find . I found one too it runs on 48vdc and min 200amps Max 550amps. I set mine in a vehicle great take off but loses torque . Any idea on changing series wound to shunt.
Right, what I really want to do is convert this tractor with the most appropriate setup. I've been playing with the Leaf motor to learn about it, and I love the idea of using an AC motor, but mostly just because I haven't done an AC motor project before. The AC motor would need a relatively high voltage battery pack. There's also some concerns about the bearing in the motor if used with a clutch. No tail shaft either, and I think a tail shaft would be the simplest way to power a hydraulic pump - similar to how it was done originally on the tractor. This motor could be run at 48V, which is a super-common system voltage. Motor controllers, chargers, DC/DC converter, and other components are all easily available at that voltage. 500A @ 48V is about 32HP, which is comparable to what this tractor was originally fitted with for a gas engine. Of course, for TORQUE, the electric motor will have an advantage over the gas engine.
@@paftaf The Leaf gearbox is about an 8:1 reduction. Even if the Leaf motor ran at it's maximum 10,000 RPM, that brings the gear-reduced speed down to 1250 RPM. The tractor is designed to run at about 2,000 - 2500 RPM. The hydraulic pump and overall speed of the tractor would be 40-50% slower. Plus, adding the gearbox offsets the position of the motor, making it into an awkward shape and very much limiting battery size and positioning.
....the ball bearings, are A locking mechanism, to the shaft. You'll either have to lathe down a notch on that motor shaft at the correct depth of the shaft, or, remove those balls and springs somehow.........
Yes, I saw some u-joint yokes with that spline count online. Makes a person wonder about the possibility of using this motor as a direct drive on a truck!
The adapter does not lock because PTO shafts have a locking groove that provides that locking action and obviously because this motor does not have that groove it will nver lock. Personaly I am thinking about making a tractor that uses a diesel generator instead of a battery and an electric motor as a motor thus letting me work for a whole day without worries and because I will be using a generator I could use an efficient combustion engine ( perhaps use hydrogen that was made using solar panels or change the whole generator with hydrogen cells, who knows)
And just to be clear - I don't need to lock a PTO device onto this shaft, I just wanted to see if it was a standard size which I would easily be able to find some part I could connect to it to make a coupler or flywheel mount, rather than having to cut female splines from scratch.
I don't think "give up" is quite the right wording, but at this point, I think a low voltage DC motor is probably the best approach for this project. I'd LOVE to use the Nissan Leaf motor in the tractor, but just don't think it's the right thing. I'll be using it for some other project.
This motor should spin at approximately the same speed as the gas engine from the tractor would have. A motor such as one from a Nissan Leaf would definately need additional gear reduction to take advantage of the potential higher speed.
@@BenjaminNelsonX Are they coming out with transmissions specifically suited or developed for electric motors, if so, do you have that information or links...
thanks for the great videos. if I wanted to power this type of motor for a project at home, how would you run it using a 220v wall outlet and attach a speed controller?
This type of motor is really not designed to run from wall power. To properly do that, you would need to convert from AC power to DC, drop the voltage to an appropriate level, and then use a typical PWM motor speed controller. These motors can create massive torque, but they also do it by drawing HIGH CURRENT, something that can be handled by a large battery pack, but not so much from an AC branch circuit.
The higher the voltage, the faster the rotation speed. You would want to be careful at high speed and high current, as it IS possible to start to melt parts and actually destroy the motor by having it fly apart! DC Series-Wound motors should also never be run without a load, other than at very low speeds for testing. Without a load, it's possible for them to spin very fast and get damaged.
The shaft may have just been bottoming out in the adapter. I should have thought to stick a depth measurement inside to check it. Other than not locking onto the splined shaft, it felt like a good solid fit.
@@BenjaminNelsonX it could be the balls towards the top not retracting because the taper on the end of the motor shaft being a different angle than a tractor pto.
24 kw for that DC motor size is somewhat optimistic except for intermittent short cycle use. Series motor speed is meaningless under no load. You could overrev and destroy it applying nominal voltage or even less
I've had no issues putting 500A and higher voltage through series-wound motors smaller than this. I wouldn't say that a no-load speed is meaningless - it's just that it only shows you the maximum theoretical speed. Under ANY kind of load, it will be lower than this, but at least it gives us a "high-side" number. I wouldn't run it at no load at any higher voltage than this.
I'm sure I overreved my 6kw baldor in my tractor while testing an accidentally overcharged pack. Since then I've ran 200kw thru the 6kw motor several times successfully. I agree prolonged use at high power will destroy motors, but utility tractors rarely see high current use more than a few seconds at a time. Should you install this motor in a 10,000lb tractor and hitch up a 16' chisel plow for a days work? No. From my first person experience with my EV tractor this motor is too large for this project if anything.
@@stevenmurphree Yep. Probably overkill. Might be nice for a future truck project. I have another potential motor, but it's missing the tail-shaft. I might have to look around a little more and see if I can find something even better.
@@stevenmurphree @BenjaminNelson , I am new to conversion and currently just reading and watching as many videos as possible. I am interested in tractor conversion and would like to explore the possibilty of converting our non-functioning 100 HP tractor. If one was to convert a 10,000Ib tractor which would high a 16' chisel plow, what sort of motor characteristics should be considered?
What did you install this motor in, I have a GE 36v air plaine tug motor that's this size. I'm installing in an offroad toy. Hoping it gives me enough torque.
It'll fit Ben, I think you should be fine using the 5 bolt pattern of the motor without worrying about the rest of the bolts set back in the housing. There's a lot of holding power in those 5 bolts.
I know this video is a little longer than most I do. I put video Chapter Points in the description so you can skip straight to the part you find most interesting.
No such thing as too big of a motor. It just means you'll do wheelies everywhere and can win tractor pull contests.
Good to be back on the tractor project. Loving it!
I am very interested in this project as I am considering doing a conversation on a farmal h or an allis Chalmers D17.
Having used loader tractors for years I would seriously consider a separate motor to run the hydraulics you will want live power on the loader hydraulics all the time but when you come to a stop and raise the bucket to dump you won't want to keep the motor cranked up plus if you put the gear pump on the back shaft of the electric motor you loss the ability to reverse the motor to back the tractor up. The gear pump won't take running backwards. Also avoid reversing the motor with the pto running as the attachment won't take well to being reversed. But I am seriously considering a separate motor to run a 12 hp hydraulic pump for my system. Another reason is I run a wood splitter on my tractors. A dedicated motor would allow me to size the motor to the load and run more efficiently when I only need hydraulics.
Oh that 21 spline shaft is a standard 1000 pto shaft. My John Deere 930 mower conditioner uses that on the pto. There is a coupling which attaches to the gearbox on the mower that has the same 21 spline shaft but has a slot cut in the side and a half inch bolt to lock it on the spline. That would slide on without having to disassemble the locking collar to remove the ball lock. But any 1000 pto shaft will fit that motor spline.
Great find . I found one too it runs on 48vdc and min 200amps Max 550amps. I set mine in a vehicle great take off but loses torque . Any idea on changing series wound to shunt.
Huh, thought the plan was the leaf motor. Whatever works best, right?
Right, what I really want to do is convert this tractor with the most appropriate setup. I've been playing with the Leaf motor to learn about it, and I love the idea of using an AC motor, but mostly just because I haven't done an AC motor project before. The AC motor would need a relatively high voltage battery pack. There's also some concerns about the bearing in the motor if used with a clutch. No tail shaft either, and I think a tail shaft would be the simplest way to power a hydraulic pump - similar to how it was done originally on the tractor.
This motor could be run at 48V, which is a super-common system voltage. Motor controllers, chargers, DC/DC converter, and other components are all easily available at that voltage.
500A @ 48V is about 32HP, which is comparable to what this tractor was originally fitted with for a gas engine. Of course, for TORQUE, the electric motor will have an advantage over the gas engine.
@@BenjaminNelsonX
What about the leaf motor and gearbox? Lock the differential, one shaft for traction, one shaft for hydro pump?
@@paftaf The Leaf gearbox is about an 8:1 reduction. Even if the Leaf motor ran at it's maximum 10,000 RPM, that brings the gear-reduced speed down to 1250 RPM. The tractor is designed to run at about 2,000 - 2500 RPM. The hydraulic pump and overall speed of the tractor would be 40-50% slower.
Plus, adding the gearbox offsets the position of the motor, making it into an awkward shape and very much limiting battery size and positioning.
@@BenjaminNelsonX
Yes, you’re right. Sorry I was wrong. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
....the ball bearings, are A locking mechanism, to the shaft. You'll either have to lathe down a notch on that motor shaft at the correct depth of the shaft, or, remove those balls and springs somehow.........
You definitely have some nice finds
The yoke of universal joint will probably have the same smile as you’re looking for plus it’ll help you and your alignment
Yes, I saw some u-joint yokes with that spline count online. Makes a person wonder about the possibility of using this motor as a direct drive on a truck!
The adapter does not lock because PTO shafts have a locking groove that provides that locking action and obviously because this motor does not have that groove it will nver lock.
Personaly I am thinking about making a tractor that uses a diesel generator instead of a battery and an electric motor as a motor thus letting me work for a whole day without worries and because I will be using a generator I could use an efficient combustion engine ( perhaps use hydrogen that was made using solar panels or change the whole generator with hydrogen cells, who knows)
An angle grinder will put an appropriate groove in the splined shaft. Spin the motor as you’re cutting, kind of like a lathe.
And just to be clear - I don't need to lock a PTO device onto this shaft, I just wanted to see if it was a standard size which I would easily be able to find some part I could connect to it to make a coupler or flywheel mount, rather than having to cut female splines from scratch.
@@BenjaminNelsonX I was forgetting you need a gear reduction rather than connecting directly to a pto driven hydraulic pump!
did you give up on the leaf motor as your prime mover?
I don't think "give up" is quite the right wording, but at this point, I think a low voltage DC motor is probably the best approach for this project.
I'd LOVE to use the Nissan Leaf motor in the tractor, but just don't think it's the right thing. I'll be using it for some other project.
Do we need a gear reduction transmission because the electric motor(s) spin so fast....
This motor should spin at approximately the same speed as the gas engine from the tractor would have.
A motor such as one from a Nissan Leaf would definately need additional gear reduction to take advantage of the potential higher speed.
@@BenjaminNelsonX
Are they coming out with transmissions specifically suited or developed for electric motors, if so, do you have that information or links...
thanks for the great videos.
if I wanted to power this type of motor for a project at home, how would you run it using a 220v wall outlet and attach a speed controller?
This type of motor is really not designed to run from wall power. To properly do that, you would need to convert from AC power to DC, drop the voltage to an appropriate level, and then use a typical PWM motor speed controller.
These motors can create massive torque, but they also do it by drawing HIGH CURRENT, something that can be handled by a large battery pack, but not so much from an AC branch circuit.
I’ll buy it from you
If this motor doesn't get used for the tractor, I'll stash this motor off to the side. It might work for what you have in mind.
WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM RPM I CAN GET FROM THIS MOTOR, I HAVE ONE AS WELL
The higher the voltage, the faster the rotation speed.
You would want to be careful at high speed and high current, as it IS possible to start to melt parts and actually destroy the motor by having it fly apart!
DC Series-Wound motors should also never be run without a load, other than at very low speeds for testing. Without a load, it's possible for them to spin very fast and get damaged.
The pto adaptor, those balls do fully retract to get on a tractor pto...
The shaft may have just been bottoming out in the adapter. I should have thought to stick a depth measurement inside to check it. Other than not locking onto the splined shaft, it felt like a good solid fit.
Andy, I just went to your TH-cam channel. LOVE the preview video! I'll definitely have to watch through some of your tractor videos.
@@BenjaminNelsonX it could be the balls towards the top not retracting because the taper on the end of the motor shaft being a different angle than a tractor pto.
@@BenjaminNelsonX on a "1000" pto shaft, it will have a lock grove just like the "540" pto. The balls drop into that grove to hold it to the shaft.
@@BenjaminNelsonX haha thanks
24 kw for that DC motor size is somewhat optimistic except for intermittent short cycle use. Series motor speed is meaningless under no load. You could overrev and destroy it applying nominal voltage or even less
I've had no issues putting 500A and higher voltage through series-wound motors smaller than this.
I wouldn't say that a no-load speed is meaningless - it's just that it only shows you the maximum theoretical speed. Under ANY kind of load, it will be lower than this, but at least it gives us a "high-side" number.
I wouldn't run it at no load at any higher voltage than this.
Good luck
I'm sure I overreved my 6kw baldor in my tractor while testing an accidentally overcharged pack. Since then I've ran 200kw thru the 6kw motor several times successfully. I agree prolonged use at high power will destroy motors, but utility tractors rarely see high current use more than a few seconds at a time. Should you install this motor in a 10,000lb tractor and hitch up a 16' chisel plow for a days work? No. From my first person experience with my EV tractor this motor is too large for this project if anything.
@@stevenmurphree Yep. Probably overkill. Might be nice for a future truck project.
I have another potential motor, but it's missing the tail-shaft.
I might have to look around a little more and see if I can find something even better.
@@stevenmurphree @BenjaminNelson , I am new to conversion and currently just reading and watching as many videos as possible. I am interested in tractor conversion and would like to explore the possibilty of converting our non-functioning 100 HP tractor. If one was to convert a 10,000Ib tractor which would high a 16' chisel plow, what sort of motor characteristics should be considered?
what the point watching when you haven't named the plant .
Electric motorcycle
What did you install this motor in, I have a GE 36v air plaine tug motor that's this size. I'm installing in an offroad toy. Hoping it gives me enough torque.
Big brushes for big current
It'll fit Ben, I think you should be fine using the 5 bolt pattern of the motor without worrying about the rest of the bolts set back in the housing. There's a lot of holding power in those 5 bolts.
I've tested much bigger machines at college laboratory.
the thread section is what is holding it back