I think the majority of people know the Fiend was awesome but his booking was what torn him down. The ideas and character was awesome. He couldn't control VKM.
The Fiend was awesome, what was bad was Vince’s terrible ideas for him. Plenty of people who’ve talked to Bray since leaving say Bray claims the wackier bullshit was all Vince ideas. A more streamlined Fiend that played more like just a genuine freak rather than some inconceivable god would be killer
But all the lore is still super whacky. If he's just a guy in a creepy mask that's dominant in the ring, that's fine, but all that Firefly Funhouse stuff with the hand puppets is just corny af.
Bray Wyatt doesnt get off the hook that easily. If Vince shares some blame so does Wyatt just as much maybe even more. Bray Wyatt has sucked more often than doing anything remotely good over a period of time. His characters none of them had sustainability.
If you go back and watch Bray Wyatt's WWE Halloween story about 2 years before The Fiend showed up, he described a similar looking character with a deeper and scarier origin story. But in order to fit into a Vince McMahon world he had to turn it into a circus clown. That and the merchandise sales made Vince want to have The Fiend on every chance he could. Diluting the effectiveness of the character.
Bray as the fiend was f ing GREAT even his matches was good,don't know what the people r talking?!vince is the main reason why everyone start trashing the fiend
I like how in the face of 15 minutes of hard facts and logic about why he sucks, the best that can be conjured up is some theory crafted fan fiction wet dream from 2 years ago and it was some how all Vince's fault.
@@TheeGlocktopus I like how everybody been giving hard facts and logics about why vince ruin the gimmick and the best that they come up with is how he sucks with no explanation just because every wannabe wrestling podcasters says something they all agree like bunch of sheep's that follow other geeks opinions,BTW the dude liked his own comment too hahaha what a clown!
@@kumodohaizi7234 The fact Vince was changing it near the end of the run, and over using it doesn't change how it started. That's the point. I am not saying I think Vince's version sucks. I am saying even the mere premise of it sucks. Firefly Fun House sucks. The happy hammer sucks. All of it sucks. Unless you're arguing that Vince created the premise of "The Fiend", which I doubt, the spooky boogey man shit in today's landscape of AEW, TNA and UFC doesn't make any sense. If you weren't too busy being a MARK, you'd see the bigger picture... And it's clear that you don't because you don't even realize the point I, and others have made the whole time: Husky Harris isn't Scary. And even if he was, that shit doesn't work today. I find it funny that when confronted about this you still argue that I only think this way because of how Vince changed it around/overused it... No. The entire concept of "The Fiend" is absolutely ridiculous. It's gonna be like the early 90s all over again... Comical cartoon characters gimmicked towards 12-16 year olds gonna lead to AEW becoming the superior product in 5 years.
I think Fiend would have been great in Lucha Underground. The more cinematic over the top drama mixed with wrestling would have worked there. I also miss Lucia Underground.
Yeah I miss LU too. The comic book vignettes were terrible and Dario turning into his father was even worse. But the matches and announcers were great.
Its hard to transition the fiend into just a wrestling character. It needs to stay in a controled setting like a pre taped video match. Like the undertaker vs aj styles years back
@@kev30631 I think the fiend should only come out in special occasions like a final boss form look at what H is doing with loomis he hasn’t even wrestled yet on the main roster
I literally think it was 7/8 months with orton😂😂 think Roman took Brays title in sept 2020 and after that bray feuded with orton until mania (Apr 2021 😂)
I really depended on who he was wrestling. Prior to 1997 he was primarily an attraction and nothing more. An awesome one, but an attraction. The 5 star matches did come later.
So the fact that I just heard Alvarez say undertaker is a legend because he started having good matches as the American bad ass is ridiculous he had great matches with mankind which I considered the best fued in wwe history he had great matches with the rock bret hart Austin and Shawn Michaels all before the year 2000 he's legend because of his character his longevity and the streak you don't have to have great matches to be a legend you just have to make an impression that will last thats what's makes you a legend
@@zemox2534 Being a good Wrestler don’t matter to anyone besides the Match marks like you some of the best and most over wrestlers of all time couldn’t wrestle well
FOLKS, remember Wrestling Observer is ACTUALLY bad and gets fed lies and rumors from empty-headed workers who name their shitty moves after Dave Meltzer.
I dont think you can walk back the bad booking that was done to him. I would rather have a more real life character come back to us. Maybe use his real life frustrations as a storyline.
Nobody cares about what you think Bryan Alvarez, The Fiend was the best thing going in WWE, it had the most merchandise sold and it was a larger than life character. Your take on Bray Wyatt is unacceptable
I think people are more excited to see the potential Bray Wyatt always showed possibly being fulfilled, rather than being excited to see the same Fiend we seen in his last year
@@dbradandthem2727 I meant more like his potential creatively and progressing his career (not his in ring potential) rather seeing the exact same fiend presented the exact same way as before
I was so disappointed that the Orton vs. Fiend match at Wrestlemania a few years back wasn't a Firefly Funhouse match. Only to see Rookie Orton in those stupid blue and yellow trunks again.
I don’t think “The Fiend” is coming back…I think this is just a new version of Bray Wyatt. He may not even resume the moniker of Bray Wyatt (he probably will though)…but this will be something vastly different. He seems like he is trying to do a more sinister version of Windham Rotunda…like what if Windham Rotunda was a folklore villain.
That might be more of a workable in ring character. Go back to the basic. Because the fiend was not a workable wrestling character outside of the firefly fun house. He was all over the place, in first being indestructible and then he was getting beat and set on fire. He was involved in a terrible alexa bliss storyline.
Outside Taker, supernatural stuff is always lame for anyone age 18+. If you shit on The Fiend, you should shit on Matt Hardy, House of Black and all the other dumb supernatural stuff.
I wouldn't say losing the title I'd say giving him the Title. The Fiend IMO did not need a title. He was pretty amazing. The HIAC match was pure stupidity, but he could've bounce back. But The Fiend winning the title was a dumb move.
The fiend doesnt transition well into just a wresling character. It just doesnt. It needs to be treated like a special event movie, like broken matt hardy was.
Bray is the epitome of "and then the bell rang". Everything you liked about Bray Wyatt involves everything you saw on a Titan Tron screen. 98% of the stuff in the arena was either corny or just plain bad.
The biggest problem with The Fiend is that, with how the gimmick was portrayed, no one else was really helped by feuding with him. And some were actively hurt by it.
The playhouse stuff was great. The tv spots were really good. They didnt know how to transistion him into a real life wrestling person. They didnt know how to book his matches.
To be fair, this was during the late term Vince years where WWE could not get its shit together and build up almost any stars. What few starts have popped up, were in spite of Vince, not because of him.
The gimmick itself is not fit for wrestling. It's a movie character. When he is defeated the movie would be over. But wrestling keeps going. He loses eventually and the character breaks.
The roman character is ten times worst,at least bray was a supernatural character,And there excuse oh roman is a heavyweight wrestler,man that's BS,their all biased on who they like,Sasha to me is a bad wrestler yet to everyone she's the greatest wrestler BS!!!!
Firefly Funhouse to SummerSlam - Awesome Summerslam 2019 - Awesome Hell in a Cell 2019 - Awful Crown Jewel 2019 to Super ShowDown 2020 - Okay Fiend vs. Goldberg - Awful Firefly Funhouse Match - Fiend vs. Cena - Awesome Fiend/Braun feud - Intriguing Swamp Fight - Awful Early Alexa/Fiend interactions - Great Early Fiend/Randy feud - Good Inferno match - Awful Alexa/Randy feud - Awful Fiend vs. Randy WM 37 - Awful Post Alexa as the new Fiend feuds - Awful
It may be different under Triple H’s and Brays control. Let’s give this a fair chance. The former problem is no longer around to throw out scripts before a show.
That's what I'm saying but these people r always complaining especially the wannabe wrestling podcasters that influence everyone to think or agree with them,BS!!!
We need to leave cinematic matches in the past with the 2020 pandemic. They were just goofy B rated movie fights. WWE, AEW, Impact and even ROH were all guilty of it. Let’s just stop and get back to live matches. Nobody wants to pay for a Wrestlemania ticket just to watch a cinematic match on the titantron
The fiend was better off as a broken matt hardy video type of thing. It should have stayed like that and not tried to life action it unto a typical wrestling match. It doesnt work or transition well at all, Its more of a tv character like pee wee playhouse.
Undertaker was having legendary feuds way before 2001 with guys like Shawn and Mankind. He did a sit-up and eye roll every match that scared other grown men. Same with Kane. The Fiend was booked badly, it’s easy to see.
That's 5 star stuff mate! Especially when Best Friends get picked up by their mum or when Matt Hardy transforms after being put in an ice box. AEW is AWESOME!!!!!! 🙄
I never understood why The Fiend was a heel. If you have someone who is a spooky supernatural monster, then you need to have them up against people who are going to look foolish and terrified whenever the Fiend shows up to scare the bejeezus out of them. That's what heels are for. That's their whole thing. But they instead had babyfaces doing that.
I always liked The Fiend. the live crowds popped huge for the act. the reaction at Wrestlemania 37 was undeniable. the reaction Alexa got at Money In The Bank 2021 was undeniable. You guys worked double time to try to gaslight people
Its not about drawing money its about having 5 star matches between a bunch of anti draws with less than a million people watching. Thats where its at!
Wait a goddamn minute The Undertaker was given the title on his first year over HULK HOGAN (granted it last two days) BECAUSE HE WAS THE MOST POPULAR WRESTLER IN WWF AT THE TIME, the hell is Bryan talking about 😂
Unpopular opinion I always said it when it comes up. I thought the Undertaker Fn sucked the first 7 years in the business. It wasnt until 1997 when he actually had to work did I see anything that special about him. He had a cool character but the creative in his matches and presentation was some of the worst in WWE history his first few years.
@@bryanmahoney3434 that’s not really my point, but I get you. I honest can’t think of a match by him I thought was good until the first Hell in the Cell, the issue with Bryan’s statement is that he implied that NO ONE liked The Undertaker and that simply was bullshit. You don’t feud with Warrior, Hogan, and injury angle Roberts in his last match in WWF, if you’re not a massively over talent in 1991/2 WWF it just isn’t happening. I distinctly remember the fake Undertaker angle and how when the real Undertaker can back at SummerSlam with the purple gloves how the fans went off. He was over and reinvented his character over and over and seemingly never got boring to the people he appeased too. And for Bryan to say, he only got over when he started putting on 5 star mania matches (amazing how Meltzer never was able to acknowledge that btw), is just absolute laughable garbage.
@@christophermarang.3569 It was a different time. There is no question Undertaker was a big hit with the live gates but the gates were not that impressive. He was probably the #3 act behind Bret and Shawn in the company or between him Razor and Diesel before they left. It also correlates with the worst financial and creative period in WWE history from 1994-1996. I still wonder if Vince was on freaking acid during that time. Outdated programming would have been an improvement it was so bad during that time.
@@christophermarang.3569 Just like Hogan, just like Lugar, just like many others, being mostly shit in the ring is not a big deal in wrestling outside of the hardcore fans. Undertaker was over like a motherfucker because of how damn cool he was as a character.
@@bryanmahoney3434 I think your forgetting that in the Bret/Michaels years that The Undertaker was kind of an attraction star. He wasn’t there weekly, he wasn’t at every PPV either. Shawn and Bret were the stars because Shawn and Bret are who they had. They were starting to build Austin, The Rock was just starting out, and they had already buried Farraqq, Lugar, Davey Boy, and Johnson. Then when Diesal and Razor left they almost ran into an issue where they buried too many people and they had to counter program Nitro all of a sudden. Vince has been an issue to WWF/E since 89 in short, but none of that really ever effected The Undertaker.
Never cared for Bray tbh. An unpopular opinion I'm sure but when you laugh every other sentence like a Power Ranger villain, I can't take you seriously.
So, Bray is likely 1 week away from coming back and with a character AEW couldn’t concoct because no one’s Wyndom, and instead of being excited or letting the fans have a bit of hope, your first inclination in to trash The Fiend, which was awesome when it started, and was murdered when it started getting successful because of the megalomanic who used to book the show. Bro you guys are the reason wrestling fans have the rep they do.
Cult leader Bray was OK but has a shelf life. The Fiend hypnotised a woman into thinking she was a child and then wanted to fuck her. That's territory killing stuff. This is why normal people think that WWE fans are morons because you like such moronic stuff. This is why wrestling fans think that WWE fans don't actually like wrestling.
@@christophermarang.3569 ikr isn't odd how the observer interviews Tony khan every few weeks and all his talents. You can't tell me there's not an anti wwe agenda here. I mean just look at the titles for wwe and look at the titles for njpw and aew
"Nobody liked that!" "I loved that as a kid!" ...be a little more schizo, Bryan. You can't simultaneously complain about wrestling not bringing in new fans and catering to an increasingly shrinking fanbase and then ALSO complain about the sort of stuff you yourself claim to have enjoyed as a kid Guess what little kid fans become? Older fans. This is the same sort of attitude of man-children that demanded their chosen entertainment medium 'grow up' with them that ruined comic books. You're watching something inherently silly, saying you liked it as a kid...then saying "its stupid!" now because you're an adult that still wants to love something that is basically for the young because you DEMAND it be...what? More mature and for adults? It's silly. I love comic books. I do not demand they grow with me and act more mature or adult. In fact, I want them to be more all ages friendly and to NOT cater to a shrinking, aging fanbase of now-grown fans. I love comics for what they are supposed to be....same reason I like wrestling. It can be goofy. It can be over the top. That's fine. They're both, ultimately, superhero stories.
I could bench press Bryan as a warmup...and if I turned the corner and saw the fiend my ass would be running as fast as I could. I would not care if it might be just some dude in a costume. When a 350lb, large built man is dressed like a jester from hell with demon eyes...you dont ask him why, thats how people end up on a milk carton
@@bwalyamumba-stormheart1633 Then he is an idiot...and his BJJ belt came from a Mcdojo if they teach him not to be afraid of a 350lb man that can literally throw guys twice Bryans size. Its also fucking Pro Wrestling, we have a guy that weighs less than my dog wrestling with his hands in his pockets, we have a corpse wrestling, we have a guy spinning Pizza dough when he wrestles , we got a dudes in their 60s wrestling guys in their 30s and acting like that's possible outside of Kayfab. If you overly apply real life logic to pro wrestling, you basically destroy pro wrestling.
Taker lessened the spooky stuff around early 2006. Directly after the whole possessing Josh Matthews schtick Taker started to work the athletes, the younger guys. Kennedy, MVP. Great workers like Edge and the classic feudwith Batista, then HBK, Punk. Undertaker's best mind games are those that are feasible. You can get 10 guys to dress in robes and hold torches. Putting people in caskets , sneak attacking them in the dark are doable. Its believable in 2005-2010 Undertaker had a high threshold of pain and said 'I'll endure this pain because sitting up will get inside the head of Mr Kennedy or CM Punk. Its a mix of psychology, great matches and great promos (it wasn't done by Taker himself but go back and watch the August 1st 2008 Smackdown promo between Mick Foley and Edge. It centers on how fighting Undertaker is dangerous and changes his opponents, Undertaker is brutal and finally it causes Edge to change to the more desperate, cunning Rated R Superstar laying out Foley in entertaining fashion)
We were brainwashed by media into thinking spooky = supernatural. You can have spooky gimmicks without all that bs. Supernatural things have no business in 2022 pro wrestling
I disagree with the take about The Undertaker. His gimmick didn’t suck. It was something different. Trying to create a new version of that is something different. We can’t disrespect the full legacy of The Deadman
He wasn't bad lol he was awesome the only thing wrong with his run was vince made him lose the big matches I get if u want 4 5 star matches he's not your guy but he tells story's better then 95% of wrestlers
@@pok3rfacReturns istg ever since his cult leader days, ive never seen him tell any good stories, the only rivalry i remember was him and orton which ended up being garbanzo both times
The fiend shouldnt have been in any matches , period. It should have been treated as a special attraction and kept in its own world. Do it like they did the brilliant broken matt hardy stuff. The fiend just walking out on live tv and having a typical wrestling match is were it sucked. The charactor doesnt transition too well at all like that.
I mean Michael Myers is scary because he's an unkillable murder machine, and Chuckie is scary because he's unpredictable, clever and can come from nowhere. So basically horror movie characters are only really good if they can "go in the ring".
When Undertaker left the American Badass phase, the character was completely different. The original character was an undead monster, but the second version was a regular guy that used a creepy entrance to psyche out his opponents. That's when he became a legend.
Bryan Alvarez HATES seeing people enjoy a character. God forbid the character doesn’t do suicide dives & canadian destroyers. I agree that the Seth character sucks tho. Bryan Alvarez is such a workrate mark 😭
@@Chaz4543 Yup. And I enjoy AEW. I thought All Out was good. People focused on Punk’s Scrum Comments but his match with Mox was awesome & so was most of the show. But these marks don’t realize wrestling moves don’t draw shit.
I’m starting to believe the AEW bias cause when the elite do an obvious gymnastics routine it’s a performance but when wwe does it, it’s horrible and unbelievable
Bryan complains about people being scared and selling for the Fiend. Well what about everyone who has to step in the ring and sell for Orange Cassidy? They get completely BURIED imo
Bray's proven that he can create interesting characters that get people invested. Problem is, as far as the main roster went, they weren't "his" characters. They were Vince's. Remember FCW/NXT Bray? The cult leader gimmick was just him doing charismatic speeches with an unsettling undertone. It was simple but effective, and it clicked with audiences instantly. But as soon as he hit the main roster? Teleporting spooky swampman! That's all Vince saw out of the gimmick, and within a few months that's all it was reduced to. A rambling, butcher apron wearing creep from the south that was possessed by some kind of supernatural, ghost girl, Satan allegory. And the exact same thing happened with The Fiend! Started out with a real interesting, unique idea that people quickly fell in love with. But then Vince took the wheel, took all the nuance out of the idea, slapped on the red arena lighting, and turned it into the clown show we ended up with. If we really are getting Bray back, but this time without the shackles of VKM holding him down? I am absolute on board. I will forgive a hundred Fiend hell in a cell matches if it means getting a version of Bray Wyatt with actual creative freedom again.
Brian doesn't like things that are phoney, except for when they're things like a completely choreographed match that would involve everyone having clairvoyance to pull off if it were real...
People liked the sizzle of Bray - Firefly Fun House which was born from his entrance when the cell phones came out - the lantern - stuff like that. In the ring he was average. Under Trips it will be interesting to see what happens. Maybe Alexa can be his "Harley Quinn"
I think one of the biggest reasons the fiend was ruined was because of him being “ invincible “ . Literally most the superstars he faced their moves had no effect on him and made them look weak . Then they have Goldberg bury him ofc and the only good rivalry I think he had was against Randy Orton becuase he actually got burnt alive. He still could of been just as scary even if he lost after a few finishers .
People like this are so toxic when it comes to pro wrestling it makes you wonder what enjoyment they get out of it. Man literally just said one of the undertakers most iconic moments with yokozuna sucked. Seems like every wrestler has to be a spot fest, 3000 near falls, 5 star Tokyo dome merchant or people like this start crying saying they can't buy into it because its not "real enough".
I recently watched MarkyD's video on the Fiend. He said what I noticed as well. Bray is an amazing storyteller but he isn't too entertaining between the ropes. I used to look forward more to the build to his matches than the match itself.
People with short term memory will also forget that this described the Undertaker for almost the first decade of his career. I love the dead man, but being honest means admitting that for most of his early career, he was not great in the ring. He would eventually figure it out once Vince gave him a little freedom to produce his own matches and once he learned a bit over the years. Brays Fiend character was also hyper micromanaged by Vince. Vince wanted him to work a slower style than what Bray can do because that is how Vince wanted all his heels to wrestle. Bray wanted the Fiend to be faster, more agile, stronger, and almost animal like in the ring. He did not want it to just be his Bray routine only a little slower, but Vince never let him do any of his ideas...
@@MarkyMcOliver It's not that he wasn't great in the ring, it's that in early 090's WWE, he just wasn't allowed to be as good as he was capable of being because "you're a giant zombie, so wrestle like a giant zombie". When he was a cult leader, Bray Wyatt had solid matches, because he was allowed to sell. As the Fiend, when he was paired with a nonsensical opponent, his matches fucking sucked with no smoke and mirrors being able to save them.
Man… Alvarez and Meltzer genuinely think everyone views wrestling the same way they do… 1. Kids loved the fiend, they thought it was creepy and scary. Grown ass men can appreciate things on the show that aren’t directly aimed at them… 2. Taker in the casket was awesome back in the day. I was a kid and thought it was cool as hell… I hate watching the observer videos at times because it’s literally non stop negativity unless it’s a 5* match in Osaka that 50 people saw…
Never miss a opportunity to talk badly about WWE and its wrestlers do you guys...But if Bray was debuting in AEW, I will bet that it would be talked about much differently...At least try to hide your bias sometimes guys. it gets very tiresome how you will praise AEW for all its cartoon character booking bullshit, but WWE, you would leave wrestling over it. You did not like the fiend, but Orange is fine right? Orange whom has lowered the stock of every single wrestler he has been opposite since his debut and still is barely over. If these guys are not on the payroll for Tony Khan, I honestly would be shocked the way this show often goes Personally I loved the fiend, and so did most of the fans. What was terrible about the fiend was that Vince never understood the character, so would inject all of his terrible ideas into the storyline and how the character was presented. The red lights, Vince, making him champion, Vince, jobing him to Oldberg, Vince. Bray himself has always managed to get himself over in whatever he does, the fans love the guy, Vince never did. Vince thought he was fat, and therefore was not a draw. There's a reason that just the idea of him returning is the most talked about thing in wrestling right now.
I actually agree with regards to the fiend character. It's too over the top for me. As was the original version of the undertaker. I just didn't like it. But on a similar level I just can't buy shit like danhausen either, or the shitty antics of orange cassady. ANYTHING that takes me right out of any belief in it just turns me off.
Orange Cassidy is one of the purest, most psychologically sound pro wrestlers working today. You dingbats absolutely OWN yourselves every time you just repeat that C*rnette bullshit. Also, what is there not to get about Danhausen ?!!?!? He's a weirdo comedy character who thinks he can curse people & gets battered by any half-decent wrestler he faces. He got squashed by Tony Nese (who is mid-card job guy in AEW) in under 30 seconds.
Unfortunately that statement goes over people's heads. Bray Wyatt's Fiend gimmick is a nightmare for any booker because there's no way to integrate all the supernatural stuff without coming off as overproduced, and he can't just lose matches because it instantly hurts his gimmick.
They could’ve lessened the spooky stuff. Go back to his roots of just being a sinister cult leader. Like Bray is just a guy with multiple personalities
*Friend A goes into his bag and pulls out his super pro tournament controller* *Friend B pull's his 2-button Master System controller out of the arse pocket of his jeans* Friend A: "Huh... your controller's only got 2 buttons! The wrestlers have more than 2 moves hahaha." Friend B whilst hovering over Bray Wyatt on character select: "You _sure_ about that?"
His booking was bad, character was fine. Let's not forget how it great it was from all ffh segments up until finn vs fiend at summerslam. Then they decided to hotshot him to a title match and everything fell apart
The problem with the Fiend is they went over the top supernatural when they should have just made it a split personality thing between the Mr Rogers Bray and the Fiend. And the problem with the Seth feud was the booking moreso than the Fiend.
It was a cool gimmick (the evil clown persona that is) marred by wretched booking, the split personality (which killed Wyatt’s mystique), and the supernatural gobbledygook. The Fiend should’ve been a Kane-esque monster who showed up unannounced, attacked wrestlers, and had occasional bloodbath, spectacle matches (sans the red lighting and big top hammer) to settle grudges. The fact Vince thought this gimmick needed the rub from championship wins more than Wyatt’s original gimmick demonstrates how out of touch the old man was.
There were several factors in why the Fiend failed: first of all, we never found out what his goal was. What the hell does the Fiend even want? The death of WWE? The glory? Chaos? If I don't understand what the villain wants, why should I care? Secondly, they made him face the wrong opponent. Finn Bàlor was a good first opponent, because he was pretty much done anyway, smiling happy Finn was as over as a fart in an elevator, and he was a perfect first victim for the Fiend. Cena was another great opponent, because he was on his way out and had history with Bray, which is why that Firefly Funhouse match was beloved by so many. But Seth Rollins? Really?! You wanna feed to the horror movie monster your top babyface? And Goldberg?! Yes, my favorite part of a Friday the 13th movie is when Jason gets run over by a steamroller halfway through the movie! And then there's his face turn, which shouldn't have happened because he is a horror movie monster, and that was the nail in the coffin.
Bryan, as a fan, I hate when you start things off with “as a fan” . You’re also a wrestler that made it no where , so how valid are your critiques really …? Bray Wyatt’s characters are great. So you can’t knock “The Fiend” it’s self, knock the way they navigated using him.
The GOOOOOOO, I’ve missed that I loved the fiend but he was a victim of his own success. Vince saw stars and took over the character and the writing was horrific. The no selling never works. Fucked up hell in a cell and then chucked the title on him to try make up for it. I’m very interested to see what Windham comes back with.
Quoting F4W Online September 2021: "Meltzer said that it's either going to be AEW or Impact Wrestling for Wyndham Rotunda, the former Bray Wyatt in WWE. If Wyatt signs, he said there is talk that his debut would be at the September 29th Dynamite in Rochester, New York- - The hometown of former Wyatt Family member Brodie Lee." It's funny, I don't remember hearing this negative commentary from Brian a year ago when it appeared AEW would be signing Bray. Now suddenly there's heavy teases/rumors he's back with WWE and Brian feels the need to cut a 15min promo on how terrible he is 😂 To the people paying for this propaganda, shame on you! These 2 aren't even trying to hide it anymore.
You sound like the old man telling a young kids to get off of his lawn. So it's not the style you are used to but they like it a lot and quite frankly I'm entertained by it. Let me see you do flips like that, or in fact anything athletic. Times change dude. If you don't like it don't watch it. I promise you Tony Khan won't care if you never watch his show again
Oh look wwe has fans invested in something interesting and fun and here’s the observer to shit all over it Gonna have start calling them jey uso at this point
This is not true, Undertaker was a legend by 1998. He was eternally over back then. The early years were questionable but from about 96 on, he was legendary.
If your idea of awesome wrestling ends at two NJPW guys trying to concuss each other for 20 minutes straight, I can see why you wouldn't like Bray's in ring work. And it's not the best, admittedly! But a certain segment of wrestling fandom's desperation to discount that he's a draw or needle mover is laughable. He objectively is. There are people that aren't gonna tune in unless he's on the show, y'all gotta deal with it. That's what they find entertaining, not 7 star Bucks matches in the Tokyo Dome.
@@cowboydan8532 No, but I LOVE that one scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark, where the guy is slashing the sword around, but Indiana Jones just shoots him.
The fiend started off as a scary character for the first few months then when hell in a cell 2019 came, it went absolutely downhill and jumped the shark, unlike his cult leader character which had humanity and truth, the fiend became a subpar version of the undertaker.
I get all you said as well but the fiend wasnt jusy a guy in a spooky mask, and if you say that why did Bray ever do the spider gimmick? Because it worked amigo
Really bad take on Fiend being bad. Not only did I see people love him, including myself, his character was good. I dont remember much for when he was with WWE during that time, because everything in WWE starts to blend in together, BUT I do remember when he debuted as the Fiend and everyone was loving it. From what multiple people are saying, it was booking that was bad, and the fact that Vince was there too. The Fiend was a fun character. I can't really see a problem with the idea of a heel in Bray Fiend killing the faces in whatever matches/feuds he had. But that probably speaks more to my lack of knowledge for wrestling and how booking works, cause I sure as hell don't know shit. But I do know, is that the Fiend was a good character, and welcomed pace in WWE.
I don't think the concept of The Fiend character was bad, but the execution of it was abysmal. It could have been good if it had been done right. I would have done it much like Finn Balor's Demon character, and only brought it out when a storyline called for it. That would have prevented it from being overexposed, and would have given a lot more life and longevity to the character. I wouldn't have used that goofy looking mask either.
Whats the argument here. Sure, I think The Fiend could of been loads better if the booking was handled right. But Bray is incredibly talented and insanely creative. People I think arent excited for the Fiend, they're excited for Bray
@@pok3rfacReturns Brays matches have always been story heavy. I didnt expect bangers from him. And with the new creative in wwe I think he'll have the best run of his career
@@DinoKaric1 You don’t find that to be an issue? You can have story telling in a match..I’d be hard pressed to find a main event level match that didn’t have heavy storytelling (Cena v CM Punk comes to mind ) but the wrestling had to at least good as well. There must be a balance between the two and Bray just isn’t that great of a wrestler and the Fiend character, as good as he was in promos, has to eventually step inside of a ring.
@@pok3rfacReturns not really, I never found Bray terrible. Especially when he first became Bray. He was solid to me. I get if people weren't into his last matches but Bray knew how to build a match. And my issue with the Fiend was you took the best thing about Bray away which was his promos. And then he also had to change the way he wrestled when he was the fiend which I can admit those matches were not great.
These reporters would have said the same about the Undertaker in 91 Wrestling is supposed to be fun and the fiend was on fire before Rollins match at hiac.
Why is the Fiend bad and Roman Reigns good? Vince fed every member of the WWE locker room to Roman. Those matches didn't elevate anybody but Roman. Vince and Roman destroyed the credibility of the WWE locker room so badly that wrestler's have to come out of retirement so that Roman can have a match. The only other option that Vince had was to hire Cody away from AEW.
FACTS YET THEY ALL WANNA TRASH THE FIEND,Roman is ten times worse,he made everybody in the locker look like weaklings,it's so bad he's wrestling a youtuber in the main f ing event,F THESE WANNABE WRESTLING PODCASTERS,their the ones that's ruining wrestling for everyone
@@TheTruth-mv7hm Nobody outside of wrestling knows who Roman Reigns is. He isn't a star outside of the wrestling bubble. Broc is a real superstar. The general public knows who Lesnar is. Vince destroyed his entire locker room and failed to make Roman a big deal outside of the wrestling super fans.
The look and early presentation of The Fiend was pretty cool, but my main fear was that when they did the Hell in a cell match, that if they have a bad finish it will be the beginning of the end and hurt that character, that happened and then all the bizarre angles post that hurt him. Now in response to Bryan's Undertaker point.... I would like to point out something I remember in 1996 when he feuded with Mankind that from an in ring stand point was the beginning of what made him Legendary actually your own star ratings reflect that. I recall Foley bringing out the best in him , then the final four Main event, his stuff with Bret and of course hell in a cell with Shawn Michaels.
Title: Your opinion. Not a statement of fact. For what its worth I've never, ever, liked any version of Bray Wyatt. To me he's a great entrance and then everything after that ranges from below average to outright bad. I want to see him on tv again as much Bryan Alvarez wants to see Miz back in the spotlight. The fact is this character is divisive among the audience. There is an audience for Bray. That's good enough. Its the same kind of reason you frequently defend blood and guts matches on AEW Dynamite. Because there's an audience for it even though it very clearly turns others away.
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pZbsSDRrmXA/mqdefault.jpg)
I think the majority of people know the Fiend was awesome but his booking was what torn him down. The ideas and character was awesome. He couldn't control VKM.
Quite the oposite people think Fiend is awesome ruined by Vince stupidity
Absolutely no amount of booking will change how bland that man is in the ring.
Brian's seething hate boner for spookiness aside, it was Vince and his booking that ruined the Fiend.
@@thehighground_ wrestling is the worst part of wrestling. Most are captivated by storytelling
@@michaelrivera8360 that's exactly what I said...people think he's great but Vince killed him.
The Fiend was awesome, what was bad was Vince’s terrible ideas for him. Plenty of people who’ve talked to Bray since leaving say Bray claims the wackier bullshit was all Vince ideas. A more streamlined Fiend that played more like just a genuine freak rather than some inconceivable god would be killer
But all the lore is still super whacky. If he's just a guy in a creepy mask that's dominant in the ring, that's fine, but all that Firefly Funhouse stuff with the hand puppets is just corny af.
Bray Wyatt in a swamp = interesting
Bray Wyatt in a mask = boring
Bray Wyatt doesnt get off the hook that easily. If Vince shares some blame so does Wyatt just as much maybe even more. Bray Wyatt has sucked more often than doing anything remotely good over a period of time. His characters none of them had sustainability.
@@bryanmahoney3434 tbh I think Bray gave up on the character when they started having him wrestle in red lights.
@@christophermarang.3569 The first few weeks of the Fiend was awesome, then they started the red lights and I completely checked out
If you go back and watch Bray Wyatt's WWE Halloween story about 2 years before The Fiend showed up, he described a similar looking character with a deeper and scarier origin story.
But in order to fit into a Vince McMahon world he had to turn it into a circus clown.
That and the merchandise sales made Vince want to have The Fiend on every chance he could. Diluting the effectiveness of the character.
Bray as the fiend was f ing GREAT even his matches was good,don't know what the people r talking?!vince is the main reason why everyone start trashing the fiend
I like how in the face of 15 minutes of hard facts and logic about why he sucks, the best that can be conjured up is some theory crafted fan fiction wet dream from 2 years ago and it was some how all Vince's fault.
@@TheeGlocktopus I like how everybody been giving hard facts and logics about why vince ruin the gimmick and the best that they come up with is how he sucks with no explanation just because every wannabe wrestling podcasters says something they all agree like bunch of sheep's that follow other geeks opinions,BTW the dude liked his own comment too hahaha what a clown!
always blame the booker and not the wrestler, ridiculous
@@kumodohaizi7234 The fact Vince was changing it near the end of the run, and over using it doesn't change how it started. That's the point. I am not saying I think Vince's version sucks. I am saying even the mere premise of it sucks. Firefly Fun House sucks. The happy hammer sucks. All of it sucks. Unless you're arguing that Vince created the premise of "The Fiend", which I doubt, the spooky boogey man shit in today's landscape of AEW, TNA and UFC doesn't make any sense. If you weren't too busy being a MARK, you'd see the bigger picture... And it's clear that you don't because you don't even realize the point I, and others have made the whole time: Husky Harris isn't Scary. And even if he was, that shit doesn't work today. I find it funny that when confronted about this you still argue that I only think this way because of how Vince changed it around/overused it... No. The entire concept of "The Fiend" is absolutely ridiculous. It's gonna be like the early 90s all over again... Comical cartoon characters gimmicked towards 12-16 year olds gonna lead to AEW becoming the superior product in 5 years.
I think Fiend would have been great in Lucha Underground. The more cinematic over the top drama mixed with wrestling would have worked there. I also miss Lucia Underground.
He couldn't hang in the ring.
He'll do great here in wwe taker,kane,boogeyman they all had a scary element,it's just how u booked it
Yeah I miss LU too. The comic book vignettes were terrible and Dario turning into his father was even worse. But the matches and announcers were great.
He wasn’t bad his booking was bad cuz he was being booked by a 75+ year old man
Its hard to transition the fiend into just a wrestling character. It needs to stay in a controled setting like a pre taped video match. Like the undertaker vs aj styles years back
@@kev30631 I think the fiend should only come out in special occasions like a final boss form look at what H is doing with loomis he hasn’t even wrestled yet on the main roster
His matches sucked real bad too. Did Vince wrestle for him?
@@NickNetwork Yes, Vince and the agents put the matches together.
Nah, the fiend was bad. Bray Wyatt is VERY overrated.
Sadly when I hear "The Fiend" I think of that hell in a cell match and Goldberg followed by what felt like an 8 month feud with Orton
I literally think it was 7/8 months with orton😂😂 think Roman took Brays title in sept 2020 and after that bray feuded with orton until mania (Apr 2021 😂)
I just think of oldberg
Me too
The thing that hurt the fiend was being portrayed to be indestructible but still booked like bray wyatt
Total revisionist history. Undertaker was having great matches in 1997. And was a legendary character well before that.
I really depended on who he was wrestling. Prior to 1997 he was primarily an attraction and nothing more. An awesome one, but an attraction. The 5 star matches did come later.
So the fact that I just heard Alvarez say undertaker is a legend because he started having good matches as the American bad ass is ridiculous he had great matches with mankind which I considered the best fued in wwe history he had great matches with the rock bret hart Austin and Shawn Michaels all before the year 2000 he's legend because of his character his longevity and the streak you don't have to have great matches to be a legend you just have to make an impression that will last thats what's makes you a legend
Having good matched helps since you know he us a fucking WRESTLER. You do know what wrestling is right!?
@@zemox2534 Being a good Wrestler don’t matter to anyone besides the Match marks like you some of the best and most over wrestlers of all time couldn’t wrestle well
@@zemox2534 Characters and Storylines is what gets you over not matches not Wrestling itself
FOLKS, remember Wrestling Observer is ACTUALLY bad and gets fed lies and rumors from empty-headed workers who name their shitty moves after Dave Meltzer.
Early Fiend was so good. I'm excited to see what happens with no Vince in the room
I dont think you can walk back the bad booking that was done to him. I would rather have a more real life character come back to us. Maybe use his real life frustrations as a storyline.
Absolute shit lmaoo Bray is terrible
Well..
Nobody cares about what you think Bryan Alvarez, The Fiend was the best thing going in WWE, it had the most merchandise sold and it was a larger than life character. Your take on Bray Wyatt is unacceptable
I think people are more excited to see the potential Bray Wyatt always showed possibly being fulfilled, rather than being excited to see the same Fiend we seen in his last year
NO WE ALL WANNA SEE THE FIEND,I guarantee bray as a new character six months till now,there all gonna beg for the fiend to come back
Potential? Bray should be past that.
@@dbradandthem2727 I meant more like his potential creatively and progressing his career (not his in ring potential) rather seeing the exact same fiend presented the exact same way as before
Naw if it's just Bray with no fiend attach I'm not interested. I need some sort of paranormal something.
I think the merch for the fiend will be there forever, but returning with a fresh new character is probubly the right direction to go.
The Funhouse match was interesting
I'd like to see some other old timer guys explore their inner thoughts
I was so disappointed that the Orton vs. Fiend match at Wrestlemania a few years back wasn't a Firefly Funhouse match. Only to see Rookie Orton in those stupid blue and yellow trunks again.
Well, technically Control Your Narrative was doing some of that.
@@MasterPancakes better yet, "arm injury update" Orton doing his dad's cast gimmick.
Trying to throw cold water on this white rabbit momentum because it’s not AEW. Give me a break.
I don’t think “The Fiend” is coming back…I think this is just a new version of Bray Wyatt. He may not even resume the moniker of Bray Wyatt (he probably will though)…but this will be something vastly different. He seems like he is trying to do a more sinister version of Windham Rotunda…like what if Windham Rotunda was a folklore villain.
That might be more of a workable in ring character. Go back to the basic. Because the fiend was not a workable wrestling character outside of the firefly fun house.
He was all over the place, in first being indestructible and then he was getting beat and set on fire. He was involved in a terrible alexa bliss storyline.
Outside Taker, supernatural stuff is always lame for anyone age 18+. If you shit on The Fiend, you should shit on Matt Hardy, House of Black and all the other dumb supernatural stuff.
They fiend was great now the booking was shit. Two best examples are that Hell in a Cell match, and him dropping the championship to Goldberg.
I wouldn't say losing the title I'd say giving him the Title. The Fiend IMO did not need a title. He was pretty amazing. The HIAC match was pure stupidity, but he could've bounce back. But The Fiend winning the title was a dumb move.
The fiend doesnt transition well into just a wresling character. It just doesnt. It needs to be treated like a special event movie, like broken matt hardy was.
Bray is the epitome of "and then the bell rang". Everything you liked about Bray Wyatt involves everything you saw on a Titan Tron screen. 98% of the stuff in the arena was either corny or just plain bad.
The biggest problem with The Fiend is that, with how the gimmick was portrayed, no one else was really helped by feuding with him.
And some were actively hurt by it.
The playhouse stuff was great. The tv spots were really good.
They didnt know how to transistion him into a real life wrestling person. They didnt know how to book his matches.
To be fair, this was during the late term Vince years where WWE could not get its shit together and build up almost any stars. What few starts have popped up, were in spite of Vince, not because of him.
The gimmick itself is not fit for wrestling. It's a movie character. When he is defeated the movie would be over. But wrestling keeps going. He loses eventually and the character breaks.
The roman character is ten times worst,at least bray was a supernatural character,And there excuse oh roman is a heavyweight wrestler,man that's BS,their all biased on who they like,Sasha to me is a bad wrestler yet to everyone she's the greatest wrestler BS!!!!
@@kumodohaizi7234 wtf you talking about🤣🤣 2015 called and it wants it's blind Roman Hate back!
Firefly Funhouse to SummerSlam - Awesome
Summerslam 2019 - Awesome
Hell in a Cell 2019 - Awful
Crown Jewel 2019 to Super ShowDown 2020 - Okay
Fiend vs. Goldberg - Awful
Firefly Funhouse Match - Fiend vs. Cena - Awesome
Fiend/Braun feud - Intriguing
Swamp Fight - Awful
Early Alexa/Fiend interactions - Great
Early Fiend/Randy feud - Good
Inferno match - Awful
Alexa/Randy feud - Awful
Fiend vs. Randy WM 37 - Awful
Post Alexa as the new Fiend feuds - Awful
It may be different under Triple H’s and Brays control. Let’s give this a fair chance. The former problem is no longer around to throw out scripts before a show.
That's what I'm saying but these people r always complaining especially the wannabe wrestling podcasters that influence everyone to think or agree with them,BS!!!
Do they not realize Vince was the one that booked all that shit?
Do you not realize that Fiend bullshit doesn't work in 2022? Makes wrestling look faker than it already is.
Vince booked him to suck in the ring?
FACTS but all these hard headed geeks don't understand that
i really liked fiend up until the hell in a cell match. i also liked the cinematic matches
We need to leave cinematic matches in the past with the 2020 pandemic. They were just goofy B rated movie fights. WWE, AEW, Impact and even ROH were all guilty of it. Let’s just stop and get back to live matches. Nobody wants to pay for a Wrestlemania ticket just to watch a cinematic match on the titantron
@@Voysh2Voysh69 Be thankful professional wrestling never stopped and still provided content during 2020 🙂
The fiend was better off as a broken matt hardy video type of thing. It should have stayed like that and not tried to life action it unto a typical wrestling match. It doesnt work or transition well at all,
Its more of a tv character like pee wee playhouse.
@@FiveNumberJonny what does “being thankful” have to do with not wanting anymore crappy cinematic matches?
"i really liked fiend up until he actuallly had to wrestle"...
Remember when Matt hardy teleported and changed clothes underwater and in an Ice machine? You and Dave ignored it
Needs more Lake of Reincarnation for the WO/F4W staff to give their approval.
Unless Bray is a skinny indie darling doing countless superkicks and flips, Bryan will always hate him.
Undertaker was having legendary feuds way before 2001 with guys like Shawn and Mankind. He did a sit-up and eye roll every match that scared other grown men. Same with Kane. The Fiend was booked badly, it’s easy to see.
Undertaker could actually wrestle.
The fiend can wrestle too,it's vince that made him limited on what he can do in the ring,why u people can't understand that?!!!!
Also remember who was in charge at that time
Yes Bryan, the teleporting Matt Hardy, House of Black's bullshit and Orange Cassidy are certainly more believable
That's 5 star stuff mate! Especially when Best Friends get picked up by their mum or when Matt Hardy transforms after being put in an ice box. AEW is AWESOME!!!!!! 🙄
I never understood why The Fiend was a heel. If you have someone who is a spooky supernatural monster, then you need to have them up against people who are going to look foolish and terrified whenever the Fiend shows up to scare the bejeezus out of them. That's what heels are for. That's their whole thing. But they instead had babyfaces doing that.
Gimme a break Bryan. You're telling me ANYTHING supernatural in Aew was amazing? Ex Hardy teleportation ??
I always liked The Fiend. the live crowds popped huge for the act. the reaction at Wrestlemania 37 was undeniable. the reaction Alexa got at Money In The Bank 2021 was undeniable.
You guys worked double time to try to gaslight people
The Fiend was awesome and drew more money than you could get out of your loyal pay piggies, ya geek Bryan!
FACTS BEYOND THAT MY DUDE!!!!
Its not about drawing money its about having 5 star matches between a bunch of anti draws with less than a million people watching. Thats where its at!
@@Chaz4543 my bad! I forgot! We need more Yuta v Adam Page 60 minute draw classics!
Wait a goddamn minute The Undertaker was given the title on his first year over HULK HOGAN (granted it last two days) BECAUSE HE WAS THE MOST POPULAR WRESTLER IN WWF AT THE TIME, the hell is Bryan talking about 😂
Unpopular opinion I always said it when it comes up. I thought the Undertaker Fn sucked the first 7 years in the business. It wasnt until 1997 when he actually had to work did I see anything that special about him. He had a cool character but the creative in his matches and presentation was some of the worst in WWE history his first few years.
@@bryanmahoney3434 that’s not really my point, but I get you. I honest can’t think of a match by him I thought was good until the first Hell in the Cell, the issue with Bryan’s statement is that he implied that NO ONE liked The Undertaker and that simply was bullshit. You don’t feud with Warrior, Hogan, and injury angle Roberts in his last match in WWF, if you’re not a massively over talent in 1991/2 WWF it just isn’t happening. I distinctly remember the fake Undertaker angle and how when the real Undertaker can back at SummerSlam with the purple gloves how the fans went off. He was over and reinvented his character over and over and seemingly never got boring to the people he appeased too. And for Bryan to say, he only got over when he started putting on 5 star mania matches (amazing how Meltzer never was able to acknowledge that btw), is just absolute laughable garbage.
@@christophermarang.3569 It was a different time. There is no question Undertaker was a big hit with the live gates but the gates were not that impressive. He was probably the #3 act behind Bret and Shawn in the company or between him Razor and Diesel before they left. It also correlates with the worst financial and creative period in WWE history from 1994-1996. I still wonder if Vince was on freaking acid during that time. Outdated programming would have been an improvement it was so bad during that time.
@@christophermarang.3569 Just like Hogan, just like Lugar, just like many others, being mostly shit in the ring is not a big deal in wrestling outside of the hardcore fans. Undertaker was over like a motherfucker because of how damn cool he was as a character.
@@bryanmahoney3434 I think your forgetting that in the Bret/Michaels years that The Undertaker was kind of an attraction star. He wasn’t there weekly, he wasn’t at every PPV either. Shawn and Bret were the stars because Shawn and Bret are who they had. They were starting to build Austin, The Rock was just starting out, and they had already buried Farraqq, Lugar, Davey Boy, and Johnson. Then when Diesal and Razor left they almost ran into an issue where they buried too many people and they had to counter program Nitro all of a sudden. Vince has been an issue to WWF/E since 89 in short, but none of that really ever effected The Undertaker.
Wait a minute did Alvarez just say undertaker didn’t become a legend until 2001 😭
Undertaker was already a legend way before that,what is this fool even talking about I mean he was already a legend before the first hell in a cell
@@kumodohaizi7234 that was a wild statement. By 97 undertaker was already unquestionably a legend.
Never cared for Bray tbh. An unpopular opinion I'm sure but when you laugh every other sentence like a Power Ranger villain, I can't take you seriously.
He's not talking about Bray he's talking about the booking of the fiend lol
So, Bray is likely 1 week away from coming back and with a character AEW couldn’t concoct because no one’s Wyndom, and instead of being excited or letting the fans have a bit of hope, your first inclination in to trash The Fiend, which was awesome when it started, and was murdered when it started getting successful because of the megalomanic who used to book the show. Bro you guys are the reason wrestling fans have the rep they do.
What did you expect Bryan and the observer are freaking trash
Cult leader Bray was OK but has a shelf life.
The Fiend hypnotised a woman into thinking she was a child and then wanted to fuck her. That's territory killing stuff.
This is why normal people think that WWE fans are morons because you like such moronic stuff. This is why wrestling fans think that WWE fans don't actually like wrestling.
Well said, this is merely a desperate attempt to pour cold water on the Fiend
@@TheTruth-mv7hm this amount of bias is just hilarious to me man.
@@christophermarang.3569 ikr isn't odd how the observer interviews Tony khan every few weeks and all his talents. You can't tell me there's not an anti wwe agenda here. I mean just look at the titles for wwe and look at the titles for njpw and aew
Bryan is a biased AEW mark
"Nobody liked that!"
"I loved that as a kid!"
...be a little more schizo, Bryan.
You can't simultaneously complain about wrestling not bringing in new fans and catering to an increasingly shrinking fanbase and then ALSO complain about the sort of stuff you yourself claim to have enjoyed as a kid
Guess what little kid fans become? Older fans.
This is the same sort of attitude of man-children that demanded their chosen entertainment medium 'grow up' with them that ruined comic books.
You're watching something inherently silly, saying you liked it as a kid...then saying "its stupid!" now because you're an adult that still wants to love something that is basically for the young because you DEMAND it be...what? More mature and for adults? It's silly.
I love comic books. I do not demand they grow with me and act more mature or adult. In fact, I want them to be more all ages friendly and to NOT cater to a shrinking, aging fanbase of now-grown fans. I love comics for what they are supposed to be....same reason I like wrestling. It can be goofy. It can be over the top. That's fine. They're both, ultimately, superhero stories.
Bryan is like 150lbs and says he wouldn’t be scared if he ran into a 300lbs guy dresssed like the fiend in real life - yeah, okay mate 😂
I would absolutely 💩 myself 😂😂
I could bench press Bryan as a warmup...and if I turned the corner and saw the fiend my ass would be running as fast as I could. I would not care if it might be just some dude in a costume. When a 350lb, large built man is dressed like a jester from hell with demon eyes...you dont ask him why, thats how people end up on a milk carton
@@MarkyMcOliver Exactly! Hahaha
Man is both a seasoned pro wrestler and, more importantly, a Bjj black belt. Yeah, he’s not scared.
@@bwalyamumba-stormheart1633 Then he is an idiot...and his BJJ belt came from a Mcdojo if they teach him not to be afraid of a 350lb man that can literally throw guys twice Bryans size. Its also fucking Pro Wrestling, we have a guy that weighs less than my dog wrestling with his hands in his pockets, we have a corpse wrestling, we have a guy spinning Pizza dough when he wrestles , we got a dudes in their 60s wrestling guys in their 30s and acting like that's possible outside of Kayfab. If you overly apply real life logic to pro wrestling, you basically destroy pro wrestling.
Imagine being wrong.
Taker lessened the spooky stuff around early 2006. Directly after the whole possessing Josh Matthews schtick Taker started to work the athletes, the younger guys. Kennedy, MVP. Great workers like Edge and the classic feudwith Batista, then HBK, Punk. Undertaker's best mind games are those that are feasible. You can get 10 guys to dress in robes and hold torches. Putting people in caskets , sneak attacking them in the dark are doable. Its believable in 2005-2010 Undertaker had a high threshold of pain and said 'I'll endure this pain because sitting up will get inside the head of Mr Kennedy or CM Punk.
Its a mix of psychology, great matches and great promos (it wasn't done by Taker himself but go back and watch the August 1st 2008 Smackdown promo between Mick Foley and Edge. It centers on how fighting Undertaker is dangerous and changes his opponents, Undertaker is brutal and finally it causes Edge to change to the more desperate, cunning Rated R Superstar laying out Foley in entertaining fashion)
We were brainwashed by media into thinking spooky = supernatural. You can have spooky gimmicks without all that bs. Supernatural things have no business in 2022 pro wrestling
I disagree with the take about The Undertaker. His gimmick didn’t suck. It was something different. Trying to create a new version of that is something different. We can’t disrespect the full legacy of The Deadman
He wasn't bad lol he was awesome the only thing wrong with his run was vince made him lose the big matches I get if u want 4 5 star matches he's not your guy but he tells story's better then 95% of wrestlers
What stories? Lmaaaooo
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@Kev7035 Right like what stories did he tell?
@@pok3rfacReturns istg ever since his cult leader days, ive never seen him tell any good stories, the only rivalry i remember was him and orton which ended up being garbanzo both times
The fiend shouldnt have been in any matches , period. It should have been treated as a special attraction and kept in its own world. Do it like they did the brilliant broken matt hardy stuff.
The fiend just walking out on live tv and having a typical wrestling match is were it sucked. The charactor doesnt transition too well at all like that.
I mean Michael Myers is scary because he's an unkillable murder machine, and Chuckie is scary because he's unpredictable, clever and can come from nowhere. So basically horror movie characters are only really good if they can "go in the ring".
When Undertaker left the American Badass phase, the character was completely different. The original character was an undead monster, but the second version was a regular guy that used a creepy entrance to psyche out his opponents. That's when he became a legend.
He was a legend before all of that.
He was considered a legend by the mid 90s. Taker was super over from the very beginning.
These dudes are insufferable. Fit right into the IWC.
Bryan Alvarez HATES seeing people enjoy a character. God forbid the character doesn’t do suicide dives & canadian destroyers. I agree that the Seth character sucks tho. Bryan Alvarez is such a workrate mark 😭
Characters and personalities get ratings and draw in viewers, not wrestling holds and moves. Something AEW marks dont understand.
@@Chaz4543 Yup. And I enjoy AEW. I thought All Out was good. People focused on Punk’s Scrum Comments but his match with Mox was awesome & so was most of the show. But these marks don’t realize wrestling moves don’t draw shit.
@@MegaAwesome1121 Thats why I laughed when they were bitching about rest holds/chin locks as if that matters if people are watching or not.
Under Vince McMahon direction yes … but the concept of the Fiend was absolutely awesome
Nah.
Can we not trust Hunter to right the ship with the Fiend? Just give it a chance.
These guys don't give chances, unless you're a skinny 'workrate' guy in AEW
@@wrestlingp WWE doesn't care about you. Keep being delusional
@@wrestlingp Rent free, bitch. Rent free.
@@wrestlingp Get shot
Fiend was awesome. Booking sucked. Don’t blame the character for Vince’s booking and ineptitude
I'm sorry Bryan, but your opinions on the Fiend have never spoken for the people.
Fiend in the worst match ever will still have more people watching it than a Daniel Garcia vs Wheeler Yuta match.
I’m starting to believe the AEW bias cause when the elite do an obvious gymnastics routine it’s a performance but when wwe does it, it’s horrible and unbelievable
And he’s perfectly fine with Malakai Black spitting black mist into peoples faces and corrupting them
Bryan complains about people being scared and selling for the Fiend. Well what about everyone who has to step in the ring and sell for Orange Cassidy? They get completely BURIED imo
@@kingslayer2999 Orange Cassidy is a lazy pro wrestler, dumb mark. Not some mythical creature with fake superpowers. FOH.
@@jordanspooner681 thank you I had not even thought about Black great point
Bryans Anti-Fiend Sentament is at it again
Yeah he definitely has a thing with the Fiend and seems pretty close minded on this
Fiend was one one of the best story telling gimmicks of the last 20 years. Bryan very close minded
@@danielbrennan7613 Yeah, best in killing his opponents…
The only thing that is scary is Alvarez wrestling
But how does this fit into The Lore of The Fiend?
Folks, remember, Bray Wyatt is a creative guy. While Mr. Alvarez is a bottom feeder.
Bray's proven that he can create interesting characters that get people invested. Problem is, as far as the main roster went, they weren't "his" characters. They were Vince's.
Remember FCW/NXT Bray? The cult leader gimmick was just him doing charismatic speeches with an unsettling undertone. It was simple but effective, and it clicked with audiences instantly. But as soon as he hit the main roster? Teleporting spooky swampman! That's all Vince saw out of the gimmick, and within a few months that's all it was reduced to. A rambling, butcher apron wearing creep from the south that was possessed by some kind of supernatural, ghost girl, Satan allegory. And the exact same thing happened with The Fiend! Started out with a real interesting, unique idea that people quickly fell in love with. But then Vince took the wheel, took all the nuance out of the idea, slapped on the red arena lighting, and turned it into the clown show we ended up with.
If we really are getting Bray back, but this time without the shackles of VKM holding him down? I am absolute on board. I will forgive a hundred Fiend hell in a cell matches if it means getting a version of Bray Wyatt with actual creative freedom again.
The fiend is brays not vinces, thats why bray was still refering to it when he left wwe
Brian doesn't like things that are phoney, except for when they're things like a completely choreographed match that would involve everyone having clairvoyance to pull off if it were real...
The only thing scary is Alvarez wrestling,like how can a wrestler sell for a podcaster in the ring
Big Evil Biker Taker was the truth! Way better than the living deadman
People liked the sizzle of Bray - Firefly Fun House which was born from his entrance when the cell phones came out - the lantern - stuff like that. In the ring he was average. Under Trips it will be interesting to see what happens. Maybe Alexa can be his "Harley Quinn"
Brian...
You and Dave are gonna shit on Bray Wyatt for the smallest thing. Let's be real.
The fiend was awesome.
The booking and writing was bad
I think one of the biggest reasons the fiend was ruined was because of him being “ invincible “ . Literally most the superstars he faced their moves had no effect on him and made them look weak . Then they have Goldberg bury him ofc and the only good rivalry I think he had was against Randy Orton becuase he actually got burnt alive. He still could of been just as scary even if he lost after a few finishers .
People like this are so toxic when it comes to pro wrestling it makes you wonder what enjoyment they get out of it.
Man literally just said one of the undertakers most iconic moments with yokozuna sucked.
Seems like every wrestler has to be a spot fest, 3000 near falls, 5 star Tokyo dome merchant or people like this start crying saying they can't buy into it because its not "real enough".
Oh yea I forgot Alvarez likes to pretend Bray Wyatt wasn’t over lol
Folks, remember this is WWE and not AEW and we are trying to dissuade you from being excited about WWE cause we're in the tank for AEW.
You were definitely the wrong age group for the spooky Undertaker! Kids f**King loved it. And Shango!
I recently watched MarkyD's video on the Fiend. He said what I noticed as well. Bray is an amazing storyteller but he isn't too entertaining between the ropes. I used to look forward more to the build to his matches than the match itself.
People with short term memory will also forget that this described the Undertaker for almost the first decade of his career. I love the dead man, but being honest means admitting that for most of his early career, he was not great in the ring. He would eventually figure it out once Vince gave him a little freedom to produce his own matches and once he learned a bit over the years. Brays Fiend character was also hyper micromanaged by Vince. Vince wanted him to work a slower style than what Bray can do because that is how Vince wanted all his heels to wrestle. Bray wanted the Fiend to be faster, more agile, stronger, and almost animal like in the ring. He did not want it to just be his Bray routine only a little slower, but Vince never let him do any of his ideas...
@@MarkyMcOliver It's not that he wasn't great in the ring, it's that in early 090's WWE, he just wasn't allowed to be as good as he was capable of being because "you're a giant zombie, so wrestle like a giant zombie". When he was a cult leader, Bray Wyatt had solid matches, because he was allowed to sell. As the Fiend, when he was paired with a nonsensical opponent, his matches fucking sucked with no smoke and mirrors being able to save them.
Man… Alvarez and Meltzer genuinely think everyone views wrestling the same way they do…
1. Kids loved the fiend, they thought it was creepy and scary. Grown ass men can appreciate things on the show that aren’t directly aimed at them…
2. Taker in the casket was awesome back in the day. I was a kid and thought it was cool as hell…
I hate watching the observer videos at times because it’s literally non stop negativity unless it’s a 5* match in Osaka that 50 people saw…
Never miss a opportunity to talk badly about WWE and its wrestlers do you guys...But if Bray was debuting in AEW, I will bet that it would be talked about much differently...At least try to hide your bias sometimes guys. it gets very tiresome how you will praise AEW for all its cartoon character booking bullshit, but WWE, you would leave wrestling over it. You did not like the fiend, but Orange is fine right? Orange whom has lowered the stock of every single wrestler he has been opposite since his debut and still is barely over. If these guys are not on the payroll for Tony Khan, I honestly would be shocked the way this show often goes
Personally I loved the fiend, and so did most of the fans. What was terrible about the fiend was that Vince never understood the character, so would inject all of his terrible ideas into the storyline and how the character was presented. The red lights, Vince, making him champion, Vince, jobing him to Oldberg, Vince. Bray himself has always managed to get himself over in whatever he does, the fans love the guy, Vince never did. Vince thought he was fat, and therefore was not a draw. There's a reason that just the idea of him returning is the most talked about thing in wrestling right now.
I actually agree with regards to the fiend character. It's too over the top for me. As was the original version of the undertaker. I just didn't like it.
But on a similar level I just can't buy shit like danhausen either, or the shitty antics of orange cassady.
ANYTHING that takes me right out of any belief in it just turns me off.
Orange Cassidy is one of the purest, most psychologically sound pro wrestlers working today. You dingbats absolutely OWN yourselves every time you just repeat that C*rnette bullshit. Also, what is there not to get about Danhausen ?!!?!? He's a weirdo comedy character who thinks he can curse people & gets battered by any half-decent wrestler he faces. He got squashed by Tony Nese (who is mid-card job guy in AEW) in under 30 seconds.
Unfortunately that statement goes over people's heads. Bray Wyatt's Fiend gimmick is a nightmare for any booker because there's no way to integrate all the supernatural stuff without coming off as overproduced, and he can't just lose matches because it instantly hurts his gimmick.
They could’ve lessened the spooky stuff. Go back to his roots of just being a sinister cult leader. Like Bray is just a guy with multiple personalities
*Friend A goes into his bag and pulls out his super pro tournament controller*
*Friend B pull's his 2-button Master System controller out of the arse pocket of his jeans*
Friend A: "Huh... your controller's only got 2 buttons! The wrestlers have more than 2 moves hahaha."
Friend B whilst hovering over Bray Wyatt on character select: "You _sure_ about that?"
His booking was bad, character was fine. Let's not forget how it great it was from all ffh segments up until finn vs fiend at summerslam. Then they decided to hotshot him to a title match and everything fell apart
Damn, i know WWE is killing AEW right now, but you guys are really going into overdrive to cut WWE down.
The problem with the Fiend is they went over the top supernatural when they should have just made it a split personality thing between the Mr Rogers Bray and the Fiend. And the problem with the Seth feud was the booking moreso than the Fiend.
I agree. Should have been a split personality thing.
It was a cool gimmick (the evil clown persona that is) marred by wretched booking, the split personality (which killed Wyatt’s mystique), and the supernatural gobbledygook. The Fiend should’ve been a Kane-esque monster who showed up unannounced, attacked wrestlers, and had occasional bloodbath, spectacle matches (sans the red lighting and big top hammer) to settle grudges. The fact Vince thought this gimmick needed the rub from championship wins more than Wyatt’s original gimmick demonstrates how out of touch the old man was.
There were several factors in why the Fiend failed: first of all, we never found out what his goal was. What the hell does the Fiend even want? The death of WWE? The glory? Chaos? If I don't understand what the villain wants, why should I care? Secondly, they made him face the wrong opponent. Finn Bàlor was a good first opponent, because he was pretty much done anyway, smiling happy Finn was as over as a fart in an elevator, and he was a perfect first victim for the Fiend. Cena was another great opponent, because he was on his way out and had history with Bray, which is why that Firefly Funhouse match was beloved by so many. But Seth Rollins? Really?! You wanna feed to the horror movie monster your top babyface? And Goldberg?! Yes, my favorite part of a Friday the 13th movie is when Jason gets run over by a steamroller halfway through the movie! And then there's his face turn, which shouldn't have happened because he is a horror movie monster, and that was the nail in the coffin.
I hated that stuff especially in the pandemic era
Bryan, as a fan, I hate when you start things off with “as a fan” . You’re also a wrestler that made it no where , so how valid are your critiques really …? Bray Wyatt’s characters are great. So you can’t knock “The Fiend” it’s self, knock the way they navigated using him.
The GOOOOOOO, I’ve missed that
I loved the fiend but he was a victim of his own success. Vince saw stars and took over the character and the writing was horrific. The no selling never works. Fucked up hell in a cell and then chucked the title on him to try make up for it. I’m very interested to see what Windham comes back with.
Quoting F4W Online September 2021:
"Meltzer said that it's either going to be AEW or Impact Wrestling for Wyndham Rotunda, the former Bray Wyatt in WWE. If Wyatt signs, he said there is talk that his debut would be at the September 29th Dynamite in Rochester, New York- - The hometown of former Wyatt Family member Brodie Lee."
It's funny, I don't remember hearing this negative commentary from Brian a year ago when it appeared AEW would be signing Bray. Now suddenly there's heavy teases/rumors he's back with WWE and Brian feels the need to cut a 15min promo on how terrible he is 😂
To the people paying for this propaganda, shame on you! These 2 aren't even trying to hide it anymore.
Yeah, like THE FIEND would be showing up in AEW
You sound like the old man telling a young kids to get off of his lawn. So it's not the style you are used to but they like it a lot and quite frankly I'm entertained by it. Let me see you do flips like that, or in fact anything athletic. Times change dude. If you don't like it don't watch it. I promise you Tony Khan won't care if you never watch his show again
Oh look wwe has fans invested in something interesting and fun and here’s the observer to shit all over it
Gonna have start calling them jey uso at this point
Where’s the full video?!
It's hard to forget the fiend got "burned alive"...leave him behind and give Wyatt/Rotunda a new character.
This is not true, Undertaker was a legend by 1998. He was eternally over back then. The early years were questionable but from about 96 on, he was legendary.
If your idea of awesome wrestling ends at two NJPW guys trying to concuss each other for 20 minutes straight, I can see why you wouldn't like Bray's in ring work. And it's not the best, admittedly! But a certain segment of wrestling fandom's desperation to discount that he's a draw or needle mover is laughable. He objectively is. There are people that aren't gonna tune in unless he's on the show, y'all gotta deal with it. That's what they find entertaining, not 7 star Bucks matches in the Tokyo Dome.
I'm quite sure the undertaker was really over in 1998 with his ministry of darkness persona
the red screen actually made me want to die. I had forgotten about it somehow
I always wondered why, whenever Bray/The Fiend did the bridge, why no one just ran up & swept a leg.
You must hate batman movies then lol
@@cowboydan8532 No, but I LOVE that one scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark, where the guy is slashing the sword around, but Indiana Jones just shoots him.
The fiend started off as a scary character for the first few months then when hell in a cell 2019 came, it went absolutely downhill and jumped the shark, unlike his cult leader character which had humanity and truth, the fiend became a subpar version of the undertaker.
I get all you said as well but the fiend wasnt jusy a guy in a spooky mask, and if you say that why did Bray ever do the spider gimmick? Because it worked amigo
Really bad take on Fiend being bad. Not only did I see people love him, including myself, his character was good. I dont remember much for when he was with WWE during that time, because everything in WWE starts to blend in together, BUT I do remember when he debuted as the Fiend and everyone was loving it. From what multiple people are saying, it was booking that was bad, and the fact that Vince was there too. The Fiend was a fun character. I can't really see a problem with the idea of a heel in Bray Fiend killing the faces in whatever matches/feuds he had. But that probably speaks more to my lack of knowledge for wrestling and how booking works, cause I sure as hell don't know shit. But I do know, is that the Fiend was a good character, and welcomed pace in WWE.
That shit doesn't work in 2022. And people wonder why WWE is so damn cringe to watch. That zombie shit needs to be kept in the 90s.
I don't think the concept of The Fiend character was bad, but the execution of it was abysmal. It could have been good if it had been done right. I would have done it much like Finn Balor's Demon character, and only brought it out when a storyline called for it. That would have prevented it from being overexposed, and would have given a lot more life and longevity to the character. I wouldn't have used that goofy looking mask either.
Whats the argument here. Sure, I think The Fiend could of been loads better if the booking was handled right. But Bray is incredibly talented and insanely creative. People I think arent excited for the Fiend, they're excited for Bray
Bray Wyatt solo matches were almost all terrible though.
@@pok3rfacReturns Brays matches have always been story heavy. I didnt expect bangers from him. And with the new creative in wwe I think he'll have the best run of his career
@@DinoKaric1 You don’t find that to be an issue? You can have story telling in a match..I’d be hard pressed to find a main event level match that didn’t have heavy storytelling (Cena v CM Punk comes to mind ) but the wrestling had to at least good as well. There must be a balance between the two and Bray just isn’t that great of a wrestler and the Fiend character, as good as he was in promos, has to eventually step inside of a ring.
Why cant you be excited for both. Why seperate the two. Didnt the concept come from( his ) mind
@@pok3rfacReturns not really, I never found Bray terrible. Especially when he first became Bray. He was solid to me. I get if people weren't into his last matches but Bray knew how to build a match. And my issue with the Fiend was you took the best thing about Bray away which was his promos. And then he also had to change the way he wrestled when he was the fiend which I can admit those matches were not great.
These reporters would have said the same about the Undertaker in 91 Wrestling is supposed to be fun and the fiend was on fire before Rollins match at hiac.
The fiend is a visually cool character with potential. Bad booking and all I'm more interested in him than any "work rate" wrestler.
Why is the Fiend bad and Roman Reigns good? Vince fed every member of the WWE locker room to Roman. Those matches didn't elevate anybody but Roman. Vince and Roman destroyed the credibility of the WWE locker room so badly that wrestler's have to come out of retirement so that Roman can have a match. The only other option that Vince had was to hire Cody away from AEW.
Cause roman and brock are the only superstars in wrestling. There is nobody even close
FACTS YET THEY ALL WANNA TRASH THE FIEND,Roman is ten times worse,he made everybody in the locker look like weaklings,it's so bad he's wrestling a youtuber in the main f ing event,F THESE WANNABE WRESTLING PODCASTERS,their the ones that's ruining wrestling for everyone
@@TheTruth-mv7hm Nobody outside of wrestling knows who Roman Reigns is. He isn't a star outside of the wrestling bubble. Broc is a real superstar. The general public knows who Lesnar is. Vince destroyed his entire locker room and failed to make Roman a big deal outside of the wrestling super fans.
The look and early presentation of The Fiend was pretty cool, but my main fear was that when they did the Hell in a cell match, that if they have a bad finish it will be the beginning of the end and hurt that character, that happened and then all the bizarre angles post that hurt him. Now in response to Bryan's Undertaker point.... I would like to point out something I remember in 1996 when he feuded with Mankind that from an in ring stand point was the beginning of what made him Legendary actually your own star ratings reflect that. I recall Foley bringing out the best in him , then the final four Main event, his stuff with Bret and of course hell in a cell with Shawn Michaels.
The booking was bad if I recall but I guess I’m wrong Bryan right
Title: Your opinion. Not a statement of fact.
For what its worth I've never, ever, liked any version of Bray Wyatt. To me he's a great entrance and then everything after that ranges from below average to outright bad. I want to see him on tv again as much Bryan Alvarez wants to see Miz back in the spotlight.
The fact is this character is divisive among the audience. There is an audience for Bray. That's good enough. Its the same kind of reason you frequently defend blood and guts matches on AEW Dynamite. Because there's an audience for it even though it very clearly turns others away.
I Loved the fiend
WE ALL DO EXCEPT THESE WANNABE WRESTLING PODCASTERS