Thank you so much for all the love in the comments section. I can't express how much it all means to me ❤ For those who have commented about problems with my balance changes (or ideas for brand new ones), just know that I read every comment, and I've been writing a lot of them down! Stay tuned for future parts!
No don’t do that to gathering swarm!!! We can’t do no geo challenge runs anymore Ideas: Dash Master could also reduce shadow dash cooldown if it wants to stay at 2 notches - just saw this in a few other comments, sorry guys, didn’t mean to copy
That's a pretty interesting idea, Chamoi. I could see it getting a little hard to "keep track" of how far you could shoot if the distance kept changing, but I still think that's a cool idea!
@the_holland Hey! Loved the video. Another thing about grubberfly’s, I thought that making the beam have knockback was a bad idea, I feel like that would defeat the purpose of longnail and mark of pride individually
@the_holland it could be that the light weakens as the wearer also weakens so the range of the slash decreases until it disappears (the amulet deactivates) after a certain amount of damage it could be a 20% reduction, so with five damaged masks the effect is deactivated or 25% etch depending on how you prefer to balance it
@the_hollandglowing womb idea: now does 99 damage, takes 1 soul, and has splash, the interaction with crest no longer reduces impact damage. 1 notch I know it'll still be garbage, but maybe enough to kick it off the F tier
this video is pretty cool however I would really love to see you consider synergies as a possible attempt to buff charms. an example I can think of is perhaps Dashmaster could decrease the cooldown of shade cloak with sharp shade so you could utilize the damage and s more. perhaps quick nail + nailmaster glory could reduce the cooldown even further? so many ideas that could stem from synergies which would be super cool to see
Thanks! Yeah, I think that's a great idea, Cloker! Funnily enough, I've thought about that very same interaction between Dash Master and Shade Soul before; it just didn't make it into the video. I'm really glad you gave that suggestion, and I'll try to see if I can incorporate some of those into future parts of the series! PS: in the section about Grubberfly's Elegy, I do actually comment on how interactions with Longnail and Mark of Pride should be buffed! Thanks a ton for the comment!
@the_holland ahhh right i forgot about that part. i agree it does feel like grubberfly's projectile should go more distance because the hitbox is bigger. also will you be considering kingsoul charm? even though it has pretty limited use, the actual ability was decent despite costing 5 notches
@ I will definitely be considering Kingsoul! As a matter of fact, I really want it to be usable post-void heart! (which will require a special solution)
Maybe thorns and spores should have an interaction if they don't? There's just quite a few charms that feel weird to not have special interactions for.
It would be interesting if the synergy of Grubberfly's Elegy and Fury of the Fallen reversed the order of your buff, i.e. at 1 mask its at full power and loses power the more masks you have, course its full power will be higher than without the synergy
So say like, fury + elegy is the pre-rework 50%, while rework elegy is 70%. I mean...given fury is a flat 75% increase to damage, it's still a...technically better option.
Yeah that was genuinely an insane moment. I had to rewatch that section since my brain just automatically assumed someone saying a charm in the bottom right is good must have been talking about melody
Oen thing that most people say when they see my p5 charm build is "Why do you use sprintmaster?". And, I wanna say to them that it is the 3rd best 1 notch charm. All you do is go faster which really helps you with fast bosses like soul tyrant and the final trio of bosses(nkg, pv, absrad). Just wanted to say this. Also, wayward compass should be nerfed to cost 22 notches
You know, I can definitely see that argument in favour of Sprintmaster - some people seem to really enjoy using it, and I totally respect that! Overcharming just to be able to navigate around the map 💀 I like it 👍👍
@the_holland sprintmaster is a very underrated charm. I used it since I beat pv for the first time. My p5 charm build is this btw: strength, qslash, shaman, sbody, sprintmaster. Helps against every boss. You can pretty much bully everyone with it.
I don’t really like sprint master for bosses because I’m too used to regular walking speed so might as well stick to that and keep the notch spot for something else
I like the ideas presented here, although I do have one criticism. That being that the new Stalwart Shell is very similar to the effects of Carefree Melody. Other than that, I do like what you’ve done here, especially to the Grub Charms - simple, yet brilliant!
Thanks a lot for the kind words, and I'm glad you said the thing about Stalwart Shell even though it's already been said, because it helps me understand just how many people get that first impression. So thanks a lot for the comment(s)!
”Grubsong gives soul for each mask lost" The potent grubsong+deep focus+shape of unn combo: (you need 33 soul to heal one mask normally, deep focus halves this cost, grubsong provides 15 soul per hit, unn provides a lot more opportunity to heal) It's practically a cheat card against one mask bosses, as you can basically outheal all damage dealt to you. The only thing that limited it was two hit bosses and ascended, still, I was able to use this combo (+strength and thorns since I had 4 notches left) to beat all bosses on ascended. With this buff...I think that would be much, much easier.
@ the stawart shell change: also, fun fact about deep focus, not only does it halfs the soul cost, it also decreases the time taken to heal. Basically, the time taken to heal two masks separatedly without deep focus is longer than healing it with deep focus. This is especially noticeable between radiance's p1 and p2, where you can heal noticeably faster and spend much less soul.
@ well, it's just a bonus other than the soul cost decrease, the main effect. Still, the single heal is worth twice the normal heal, I'd call it efficient.
Sure it's more efficient, the main problem (I think) is how hard the charm makes it to fit in heals between tight attack patterns. Also at the cost of 4 notches. But if it works for you, go for it!
10:35 given the stage of the game you can get sprint master in, you will already have a dash and likely have crystal dash, so there aren't any new aerial skips that are possible.
The stalwart shell change made me think of carefree melody. It makes it better than carefree melody in nearly any case (wait vs rng). Maybe carefree melody would cost 2 notches and dodge every 4th attack, so like: damage, damage, damage, dodge, damage, damage, damage, dodge, so on And I'm looking forward to the rest of this series!
Yeah, I did make Stalwart Shell kind of similar to Melody. Making it cost less is actually a really good idea, maybe I should keep that... Thanks for the comment!
Maybe Soul Catcher should start with +2 Soul per hit, and then each Soul Vessel they get add 1 to that. The only problem with this is that it makes Soul Eater mostly pointless, but if Soul Eater starts at 7 and gets boosted by 1 every soul vessel, then it would be perfect. With this, it keeps the double cost/double reward system, and makes them more useful and rewards you for exploration
You know what, that's actually a really interesting and cool idea! I kind of like that Soul Catcher could get stronger over the course of the game, ending up as a pretty strong charm in the late-game. I'm saving that thought!
One synergy with grubberflys ellegy is if fury of the fallen, I am not sure how you had planned on changing that one but its very fun to put both them on, get to one mask then you swing with red beams which do some extra damage. It is just a cool synergy that keeping would be nice.
The quality of this video is seriously impressive, I was astounded to see the channel at below a thousand subscribers! I am immensely interested in seeing the whole series, keep it up
No. Just no. Hollow Knight WON'T be a shooter game at which you only spam Grubberfly Elegy's attacks and Vengeful Spirits. It's better to leave this downside.
I think it's a good point, Blober! Sure, you have to account for balance and all, but I do find it kind of boring that you don't gain any Soul when utilizing Elegy! And Meiyu, I also get what you're saying
Loved this video! You deserve way more attention. Also, i hope there's modders who are willing to add your solutions to the game. Honestly, if i receive news of somebody who's doing that, ima just stop playing just so i can replay the game with these changes!
Haha ;D I didn't say it was useless! But I guess you got me, it isn't really worth using in the late game. I'm making a very special exception for that one, though, as it just fits so well into the game!
Not only is this video enjoyable to watch, with good pacing, script, visuals, all that, but it also has a lot of charm to it I can’t wait to see what you plan to do for the rest of the charms. (Also out of my own personal idea, I would probably have sprint master still increase height and jump movement but instead make it unlock able when you get Sly’s storage key) Overall, very fun video and I can’t wait to see more from ya!
Wow, man, those are... really kind words. I'm flattered. That means so much to me. So, I looked it up after making the video, and I think Sprintmaster *is* actually unlocked with the Storage Key! Which means your change should totally apply: allowing the speed increase to also apply while mid-air! Thanks a ton for the comment!
This is amazing, love ur content. I got into hollow knight bc of you and your videos, and just recently beat Path of Pain and Pantheon 5. I only got 2 achievements left to do, thank you so much, this vid is so underatted im going to send it to my friends and family!
That's absolutely unbelievable, wow! What an amazing honour to have gotten someone into this wonderful game, and congrats on beating PoP and P5!! Holy crap you must've done that quickly, I did P5 only after like a year of playing! Thank you so much for your comment!
It is really nice to finally see someone doing charm balancing video on hollow knight. That being said I disagree with some points: - I am not sure if putting Spell Twister as the baseline is good idea, becasue this charm is one of the stronger ones that could get a slight nerf. It was supposed to be charm that's better for good players that don't need to focus on healing and use mostly spells, but it gives too much and it's great for spells and good for heals. You can have 8 spells or 6 heals with this charm. In theory it is more beneficial that Soul Catcher on the maing vessel if you use 3 spells for every 1 heal and for the extra vessels it is 9 spells for every 1 heal, but because vessels don't store infinite amount of soul it doesn't really matter. So I think it could be nerfed by having 1 less soul from hitting enemies. - I completely agree with what you said about Wayward Compass. I also force you to use it, so you need to change charms for the exploration and because of that you can have more opportunities to use diffrent charms. - It is a small change for Gathering Swarm, but I would be so good qol change for the players. - Your idea for Stalwart Shell rework is nice, but the issue is that we kinda already have too many health charms. Also it blocks dmg, so it would work in radiant fights, that's how block works in this game. - Soul Catcher is for both healing and using spells, that's why players that played this game for long will not use it and they would use Spell Twister instead. I don't think it's underpowered, but it feels that way. The changes you propose have some issues with other charms. The first one would mean that Soul Eater should give at least 13 soul, because the higher cost charms are supposed to be more efficient and that would be overpovered, meanwhile making it 1 notch and giving only 2 soul is also not good idea, because it would be completely overshadowed by grubsong, that you also buffed. I think this charm doesn't need changes. - Shaman Stone should give smaller dmg bonus, but making it all 25% would be really bad for abyss shriek and descending dark, it wouldn't be that bad for shade soul, because it's already doesn't deal that much dmg, but with shaman stone it can easily double hit enemies. For shriek and descending dark it would be better to give 35% more dmg, not 25%. - Soul Eater is really good charm and it doesn't need to be stronger. You can use spells or heals in less than 2 hits. Also the reason why I think some charms cost 4 charm notches is because every single one of them could break the game balance, that's why team cherry was really harsher on them. - Dashmaster is charm you don't really need, but it is fine to have it. So making it 1 notch isn't that bad. - I don't like Sprintmaster, because when you jump you feel a lot slower, so for me this isn't really that good change. - Grubsong is already one of the best charms in the game and I can see why some people see why it should be in S tier. That being said I think it should be nerfed, because it gives 15 extra soul for free, you would need to get 5 hits with catcher to get the same extra amount. Also the synergy with Grubbersfly's Elegy is broken, you can have infinite healing with it and deep focus. So I think it should give 13 soul on hit and 20 with Grubberfly's Elegy. Now that I am thinking, you could give both the nerfs and the buff you suggested. - Grubberfly's Elegy is strange charm for me. I really don't like using it, because it feels just bad and i don't know how to change that.
I totally agree that we need more charm-balancing videos! That's why I had to make this one. I read all of your proposes, and while I do disagree with most of them, I think you make some good points. Here are the ones I liked the most: 1. Grubsong is really good already, and so I do agree that it's dangerous to buff. 2. Letting Shaman Stone grant a 35% damage boost to Shriek and DDark might be the way to go. 3. Wayward compass giving you a chance to change your build when you have to put it on and off is such a genius thing to notice - I never thought about it that way! That's damn clever, man. 4. Stalwart shell is the change I was the least comfortable with suggesting, so it probably deserves heavy critique. Thanks a ton for the comment!
I *promise you* I'm gonna release the rest of the rebalances! It just takes a while for me to do the writing and recording and editing, but I'm truly flattered that you enjoyed it :)
I'm not too convinced by most of your changes but I actually love the grubberfly elegy one cause it also makes the synergy with fury of the fallen more usable as the in between state isn't as awkward.
6:22 The problem with 1 cost SC imo is that it effectively does not help at very important breaking points (current SC gives you your 2nd spell at 5 hits instead of 6, this one would still require 6 hits for more than 66 soul). It would only save you a nail swing for your third spell (8 instead of 9).
How the heck does this video have less than 50k views? It's a f**king masterpiece! While i do feel like this video is severely underrated i can't help but disagree on the grubberfly's elegy change, mainly due to the pogo. Since the light wave is a projectile and as such requires time to cross x distance i don't feel like giving it pogo properties is a good idea, mainly for how much this would screw over a player's perception of the pogo, imagine this: You are pogoing an enemy in order to reach higher terrain, due to the wave being a projectile the pogo can have either an annoying delay or make you go flying upwards more than what you think it should. I tried this while trying to mod hollow knight and there were cases in Wich a delayed pogo screwed me over due to their unpredictable nature, i was sent flying due to using wings at the same time the projectile hit or both the blade and the projectile hit at the same time causing me to be propelled a lot higher than expected. In short giving the players pogo in the grubberfly elegy can result in a steady body type of situation, where you either hate or love it with no place in between and i don't feel like that is a good design philosophy for anything at all.
I have no idea how so many kind souls found their way to my small channel, but wow are you guys just the nicest people! Thank you so much for saying that! You. Are. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Gosh darn it, I totally didn't think of that! I'll have to address your point in a later video, because that just downright breaks the charm. Thanks a ton for pointing that out, and for doing it in such a nice way. I really do appreciate it!
I'm on board with all of these changes. fingers crossed either you or someone is able to make a Mod because i would love to do a playthrough with these balances plus whatever you have instore for the rest of the charms. Looking forward to the next one :)
I'm surprised I haven't seen a video like this earlier, finally someone talking about it! You expressed a lot of my common frustrations with the charm system. I love Hollow Knight, but this imbalance can drive me nuts. I think you excellently identified the shortcomings of charms featured in this video, however, I do not entirely agree with the solutions you came to. First and foremost. I've already seen that mentioned in the comments, but I think it's worth repeating: it's not only about how many charms are outclassed on their own, it's also about their lack of powerful synergies. The example of Weaversong shows that even a mediocre charm can be elevated to true greatness by a well-though out synergy with a different one. However, almost none of actual synergies To add insult to injury, none of the top tier charms have any synergies at all - as a result, one of the game's potentially most fun mechanics is left completely out of the meta. A lot of the charms you covered in this video could use a good synergy or two. Another thing is how these boosted charms can interact with other charms, especially if those are boosted too - you risk swinging too hard in the other direction and breaking the game in many unexpected ways. Though admittedly, I'd also prefer to boost charms rather than nerf them. Not a fan of Shaman Stone nerf. I propose a solution: anti-synergies! If a certain combination of charms produces a potentially game-breaking effect, make one of them stop working if both are equipped. If there are charms which like each other, maybe there are charms that hate each other too? That was a lovely analysis, I hope you continue this future videos!
Those are my charm specific notes: - Gathering Swarm: I believe there is a fun way to make this one somewhat usable in battle - a synergy with Glowing Womb! Once Glowing Womb is reworked into actual usability, it could form the foundation of playable minion build. Make GS increase the total amount of hatchlings to 6 and spawn 2 at a time. A tiny swarm of three - you and two hatchlings! - Stalwart Shell: not a bad idea at all, even if three notches for an effect that activates only once every 30 seconds seems a bit too harsh. There are few battles in the game which you can't realistically end within a minute; if you menage that, you only get to use the charm once every battle... Still, my biggest doubt is in how this one's effect relates to possible reworks for Baldur's Shell and Carefree Melody. It feels like this version of SS runs the risk of becoming interchangable with the other two. - Soul Catcher and Soul Eater: you nailed it exactly with why Soul Eater is so problematic. That said, I would prefer to keep their original notch cost and boost Soul generation instead. There is nothing wrong with Soul Eater staying at four - if enough other charms have their notch cost lowered, it should all balance itself out. - Shaman Stone: again, not a fan of this one. I think that damage boost reduction all the way down to 25% is way too harsh, especially because there are almost no other ways to increase spell damage in vanilla game. Down to 40% for ddark and shriek would be acceptable. Again, anti-synergies. - Grubsong: I'm surprised you decided to boost this one; in my opinion, Grubsong is, similarly to Spell Twister, one of the only truly balanced charms. If you consider how much Soul you'd be getting with this charm boosted and how much you could be saving with, say boosted Deep Focus... I think it could get rather silly. - Grubberfly: This one is one of the two with most waasted potential. It was done so dirty... The effect is very cool but impractical in almost every way: the notch cost is punishing, the damage reduction is far too great, the effect is easy to loose and once lost, hard to regain. I think that your idea is great in addressing the latter two, but the charm is still too expensive and deserves more interactivity. Plus, there is something to be said about the charm's design rewarding player for specific style of play (staying at max health) and this being partially lost in an attempt to make it easier to use. Here's my attempt at boosting it: Grubberfly's Elegy: reduced notch cost by 1; damage output reduced only by 33.3% instead of 50% (3, 6, 10, 12, 14), Fragile Strength mitigates the effect entirely; receive 8 soul for each time a projectile hits a target; synergy with Lifeblood Heart and Lifeblood Core: increase projectile damage by 50% (stacks multiplicately; GE + FS = 5, 9, 13, 17, 21; GE + FS + LH/LC = 7, 14, 23, 27, 32) (Synergy with Mark of Pride stays the same, though it could be boosted. Synergy with Fury of the Fallen stays the same.) Sorry for the spam, I didn't want to clog the comment section with my musings, but I also REALLY wanted to share these notes...
Thanks man, I'm so glad you agreed that we should talk more about this issue! I just couldn't believe that no one had made a video like this before!! GENERAL COMMENTS: 1. Charms should definitely have more synergies that were worth your time! I agree 100% 2. Uhhh, anti-synergy is a cool idea. Wonder if it'll feel bad though, if it ends up stunting creativity? I suppose you'd just have to be careful to only add anti-synergies to very select (and overpowered) charm combos, like Strength and Quick Slash. 3. Definitely a fear that I'll swing too far in the other direction, but even if I did (given it weren't *too-too* far), at this point, I'd still just like to see the meta changed up almost no matter the cost. 4. Thank you so much for the kind words. I really appreciate you! CHARM META-COMMENTS (only if you've got the time!): * Gathering Swarm: That's a really cool idea, and very thematic for "gathering swarm" to buff swarms of enemies! * Stalwart Shell: You're totally right to be worried about Carefree Melody becoming too similar to the new Stalwart Shell. I'll see what I can do. * Soul Catch & Soul Eater: Well, I still see problems at four notches for Overcharming, but I'm glad you agreed with the change(s) overall for those two charms! * Shaman Stone: I see your point. The only reason I went so hard against it was because I was scared that not nerfing it into the ground would just mean people kept using it at the same rate as before. But maybe you're right. * Grubsong: You're right, boosting this one was a dangerous move. I was just unsure whether people actually used it for bosses that dealt two or more damage, and for those that don't, the change thankfully doesn't apply :) * Grubberfly's Elegy: Wow, you really thought a lot about this! I especially like the change where you can actually get Soul by using Elegy, I hadn't thought about that... I'll have to write it down. Absolutely no need to apologize, I read everything and I loved it! So glad some of your are sharing your thoughts, and they're settling alight so many sparks of motivation in my mind! Really appreciate the comment, man!
Personally. I think a cool change for dash master would be lowering the cooldown till shade cloak is active. That way you can use the invulnerable dash more as well, making it more applicable in combat. You could then make its synergy with sprintmaster lower it even further (sprintmaster wont lower it by itself. But it would with dash master) thus making the synergy even better to run. Making it more justified for traversal. You could also probably run a sharp shadow build in some fights with this which is cool synergy.
I would make dashmaster not have a 1 charm notch cost. But instead give it an additional passive that recharges shade cloak dash faster which could make it slightly better.
honestly an idea i think it would be really cool is that when you equip dashmaster and sprintmaster you can sprint 70% faster and dash up (but with a smaller dash, like a triple jump at the cost of your dash) that would be a cool sinergy and wouldn't reveal areas that you weren't supposed to see since you get dashmaster pretty late
Idea to make dash master more combat friendly: make it increase the speed of the dash itself. Many cases while fighting larger bosses (especially PV) i have an issue where i am too far away to strike, but too close to dash without taking contact damage, this is usually after dashing once, as bosses dont often move too far away from the knight, so if i can close that distance in less time i might be able to turn one hit into 2, or 3 with quick slash. This would also make the delay between dashes (after a dash ends and before a new dash can be done) a little larger
I think grubberfly elegy should just give soul each hit. Not 11, but like 5 or 6 soul (more in synergy with soul catcher/eater), turning you into full ranger build
Good video, love the ideas especially for the elegy. The only one I disliked (which is because of the nature of the charm) is sprintmaster since the issue with the charm is that you dont walk at all while on combat, you mostly jump or dash. So when you mentioned the synergy it has with weaversong, I think in order to make the charm more viable,I thought you were gonna go with that it should have more synergies with existing charms. Synergies with other charms are an underrated method of balancing existing charms.
That's definitely a very good point! I don't use Sprintmaster very much either, but I've heard that some people actually like it for fights where you don't dash too often. I'd still tend to agree with you that synergies might be the way to go. Thanks you the comment!
Personally I love Dashmaster thanks to its slew of synergies, so I don't think it really needs a buff in combat, but I wouldn't complain lol I love the Elegy change, aside from the beam-pogoing since that could break some parkour sections. FYI it already does work with Mark Of Pride :3
Yeah, I may have accidentally screwed parkour with my Elegy change ':D Well, as far as I understand, it only works with Pride in the sense that the beams become wider rather than shooting farther. That's what I'd want to change :)
I think most changes are great, but i think that shamans was treated to harshly. for some spells it‘s a 50% nerf. 35% would be more fitting, especially as there is a lot of power creep involved. I‘m exited for the next video!
I liked the video, though as many others have already mentioned there is reason for imbalance among charms to exist, especially charms that have similar effects/end results. Not that it invalidates your video. It's very interesting to see your opinion on how to change charms to bring them to one power level. And a separate thing from the video content itself and a recommendation for video creation, there is a chapter system or whatever it's called again on TH-cam that lets you divide the video into segments with titles and it's a very useful feature for these kinds of videos where your video has very distinct sections like the different charms here. It lets one easily jump between the different charms so I'd recommend adding chapters to your future videos if applicable as well as retroactively adding it here if such a thing is possible.
You're totally right, and I'm sitting here shamefully reading through all the great points that people made about how wrong I was 😅 I really appreciate all the wonderful feedback, and I'll try to do better next time! Yes, yes, yes! That's a great idea! I've messed around with it before, but I just couldn't seem to get it to work - but I'll definitely be trying that with this video!
In my recent replay through Hollow Knight, I noticed the same issue. Gotta say, I love your rebalance ideas, and I find all of them very agreeable and would love trying them. I do think that a lot of charms being overshadowed stems from the context of being used against bosses, mainly in Godhome. Because of that, I do like the idea that you'd also nerf some of the stronger charms, too. Is interesting.
Thanks a lot, man, I truly appreciate that. And yeah, you're right about a lot of charms falling off because you just end up just fighting bosses in Godhome during so much of the late-game; I hope I can do something about that in future videos too. Thanks a for the comment!
4:28 I believe Stalwart Shell shouldn't block a hit if that hit would have killed you. Not only does this keep the spirit of Radiant boss fights, but the game does have a whole fancy effect when you're at one HP, and I feel that the reworked Stalwart Shell would ruin the spirit of that.
Can Carefree Melody block damage when you're at one health? I don't actually know. I think that's a good point, and it would save Radiant fights as you mention. Probably should then also be applied to Melody, if that charm is already capable of saving you at one mask. Or maybe it just shouldn't work for Radiant fights :) Thanks for the comment!
For my randomizer sessions, I balanced Soul Eater this way: Soul gained in main: 8 >> 11 Soul gained in soul vessel: 6 >> 5 This way the charm feels much more dynamic and fun to use while also justifying its high cost.
Really, oh wow. I think I've heard of that, actually! Yeah, I kind of like that a lot, since it encourages you to use you soul quickly after obtaining it!
Sprint master is so underrated one of my favorites as for the jumping and dashing problem I honestly would like it if nailmasters glory increase your overall movement speed by a little seeing as it comes from sly a very speedy boi plus it makes it actually viable for people who forget about nail arts (me)
Very cool video! But I think if you'll ever make part 2 of this video and you'll be wondering what buffs you could give to a charm, you could not buff charm, but buff its combos with other charms or create new ones. I think that would be a nice way to buff it without changing much
I think that a cool change for dash master might be to change the cooldown of your shade cloak later in the game. It would then have early game utility and late game combat improvements
It's funny, someone already mentioned that, and I think I've even thought of it too before. I've considered giving that functionality to Sharp Shadow, but giving it to Dashmaster is also a really fun and interesting idea!
I think a better buff to grubberflys elegy would be to make the projectiles deal more damage, maybe 75-100% nail damage, and have them give you soul (slightly less than a nail hit would), but to keep how you need to be at full health to maintain. This way, rather than becoming useless upon taking a hit, it can sustain itself by giving you soul to heal but at a slower rate than the nail and it maintains the design idea of needing full hp for its effects
@the_holland when attacking with it at full health, the beams give you soul which can then be used to heal yourself if you take damage. The idea is to make it a more present part of your build because with the way it is in the game, it encourages you to attack from a distance to take advantage of it while simultaneously encouraging you to get up close and personal to get soul to heal any damage you might take to keep the effect going. I think having the beams give you soul fixes that and makes it so you actually get to USE the charms effect
Ohh, like that. Now I get your point! Yeah, I kinda like that. Although, as soon as you start losing 2 or 3 health, you're probably not getting the charm back for the current fight, which still is kind of sad to me. But not a bad idea!
Wayward Compass and Gathering Swarm having synergy in swarming towards hidden passageways / breakable walls could be a cute bonus. Mark of Pride + Longnail should increase nail length even more than their combined length by juuuust a bit. Baldur Shell should recover faster when you also have Stalwart Shell (maybe this is already a thing). Grubberfly Elegy should change the max health sword beams to sword beams that consume a small amount of soul. Grubsong should then help you regain soul even faster when Grubberfly is equipped. Just some random synergies.
Stalwart shell would be a great idea if radiance mode wasn’t a thing. But it could probably nerfed for that and still make you take damage or something along those lines. Making a stun mechanic for it during radiance could also be a good idea
I will be taking a look at Carefree Melody in the future, but you're right that this change makes them quite similar... still, I do think they have meaningful differences :)
Not gonna lie but I absolutely lovrd Sprint+Dashmasters charms when I was speedrunning 112 (fpr achievements). They're great to traverse, ans they're great for combat too. When you can dash and around around like you're bug on crack, it actually saves quite a bit from attacks that othervice would've been a guaranteed hits.
This is very true, so many of these charms have a very defined use case and just because it isn't a universal charm that is always having an effect doesn't mean its a bad charm.
I feel like simply nerfing the Shaman stone’s damage would probably disrupt the game balance. The problem is that spell builds rely on Shaman stone at their core as the only real damage boost, putting the charm in an uncomfortable situation where it is overpowered in the early game since it needs to keep pace with endgame nail builds. Nerfing the effects of Shaman stone for the sake of the early game would make spell builds unviable in the endgame. Instead, I suggest breaking the Shaman stone into two two-notch charms (the second being found later in the game), each one providing half (or slightly more) of the current charm’s power. This would allow spells to be better paced in terms of power throughout the game without sacrificing their endgame potential.
See, I respectfully disagree with your proposed solution. I don't like charms as a progression system, and I promise you that I'll be nerfing nail-centered charms in later videos to make up for the nerf to Shaman Stone. I want to shake up the meta, and to do that, Shaman Stone has to be weaker in all stages of the game.
That's a BUFF for Vengeful Spirit, though! I also don't think Shaman Stone and Spell Twister are comparable quite in that manner, because one requires more work (spending the soul from Spell Twister), while Shaman Stone can also double-hit for even more applied damage. Thanks for the comment anyways!
great vid, i gotta disagree with soul eater though, the problem isnt as much that 4 notches is way too much (which to be fair, doesnt help), but the fact that using that much soul effectively in combat is very hard. Perhaps an increase on soul capacity or on how quickly spells come out would be a suitable solution
Nice. Though I don’t play hollow knight (I plan to but time restrictions and college is coming soon) I feel like the main problem of this series that would make balancing difficult is the charm node cost, how early you get the charm, and different niches such as exploration charms vs combat charms. Also strength and quick slash gonna be gutted I just know it. Third or something
Funny how experienced players have a different view of the charms. When I was first exploring, I kept getting hit, so thorns of agony was my favourite charm haha! Now it's sharp shadow. If you buff sharp shadow, I will never take it off.
That's pretty funny, I've never heard someone talk positively about thorns ;D - but I think it's great to just pick up what works for you! Screw the meta
@the_holland Yeah. I don't like optimizing the fun out of a game - and hey, if I can get to AbsRad with my build, then it clearly works for me! (Sharp shadow+quickslash+strength+grubsong+either dashmaster or heart).
@the_holland what even is "the best" charm? There are ones that the community decided are the "optimal" ones, but what if someone doesn't like using spells that much, for example? Charms should encourage different types of gameplay, suited to the player, and balancing them could help alleviate that gap between "basically useless" and "only ones worth using".
While I don't exactly disagree with getting to keep the sword beams when less than full health, the base design of that charm is very clearly a Zelda reference, so extending its usefulness in that way does technically break your own rule about not straying too far from a charm's original intention. ...Also, I'm just imagining the knockback leading to a lot of sideways pogo-ing into spike walls and pits, particularly in situations where both heavy combat and spikes or other hazards/hurtboxes are present. Quite Foolish. A Radiant disaster.
1. I didn't actually realize it was a reference, so I guess you're right about that. Although I believe I'd still rather want a fun charm than one true to its reference material. 2. You're so right about the pogo'ing thing, and others have pointed it out too. I should've thought of that. Thanks for commenting!
I really like the changes made to stalwart shell, but to prevent the problem with radiant bosses you could make it act kind of like the grim damage prevention charm. If you were to combine them, you could make the reward for banishing grim an upgrade for stalwart shell.
you forgot to mention the synergy between sprintmaster and dashmaster which increases the speed of sprintmaster to nearly the same amount as your rework
Thank you so much for all the love in the comments section. I can't express how much it all means to me ❤
For those who have commented about problems with my balance changes (or ideas for brand new ones), just know that I read every comment, and I've been writing a lot of them down!
Stay tuned for future parts!
@the_holland you should contact some modders many would be interested
I genuinely thought this video would have had at least 20k views, this is incredible quality lol
FR!!!
soon. it’s a young channel 🔥
Wow, I really appreciate the kind words
@the_holland ITS TRUE THO!!!
@Optic_BliSS YOU'RE TOO KIND!!!
Shaman stone: Just big spells... Ok..???
Grubberfly's elegy: I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
😎 Elegy Squad Pull Up 😎
No don’t do that to gathering swarm!!! We can’t do no geo challenge runs anymore
Ideas:
Dash Master could also reduce shadow dash cooldown if it wants to stay at 2 notches - just saw this in a few other comments, sorry guys, didn’t mean to copy
Damn, that's actually a really good point! I didn't think about the challenge runs - perhaps it should be a toggleable option in the settings ':D
the only no-geo challenge that uses Gathering Swarm is the TAS, and the fact that's it's possible just shows that the charm needs fixing
Haha xd
I think grubberfly’s should lose range with every mask lost as well
That's a pretty interesting idea, Chamoi. I could see it getting a little hard to "keep track" of how far you could shoot if the distance kept changing, but I still think that's a cool idea!
@the_holland Hey! Loved the video. Another thing about grubberfly’s, I thought that making the beam have knockback was a bad idea, I feel like that would defeat the purpose of longnail and mark of pride individually
@kaico5265 tbf they both would maintain full damage unlike grubberfly, while not being subject to damage losses
@@anonymouscrouton7726 Yeah I guess that makes sense
@the_holland it could be that the light weakens as the wearer also weakens so the range of the slash decreases until it disappears (the amulet deactivates) after a certain amount of damage it could be a 20% reduction, so with five damaged masks the effect is deactivated or 25% etch depending on how you prefer to balance it
Idea: dreamshield + dream wielder = DOUBLE SHIELD (also bigger than the regular one)
I like it!
You become Markoth basically
Now who'd want to do that :I
@the_hollandglowing womb idea: now does 99 damage, takes 1 soul, and has splash, the interaction with crest no longer reduces impact damage. 1 notch
I know it'll still be garbage, but maybe enough to kick it off the F tier
I like it, although the Soul cost has got to be the most annoying thing about it D:
this video is pretty cool however I would really love to see you consider synergies as a possible attempt to buff charms. an example I can think of is perhaps Dashmaster could decrease the cooldown of shade cloak with sharp shade so you could utilize the damage and s more.
perhaps quick nail + nailmaster glory could reduce the cooldown even further? so many ideas that could stem from synergies which would be super cool to see
Thanks!
Yeah, I think that's a great idea, Cloker! Funnily enough, I've thought about that very same interaction between Dash Master and Shade Soul before; it just didn't make it into the video.
I'm really glad you gave that suggestion, and I'll try to see if I can incorporate some of those into future parts of the series!
PS: in the section about Grubberfly's Elegy, I do actually comment on how interactions with Longnail and Mark of Pride should be buffed!
Thanks a ton for the comment!
That was my idea too
@the_holland ahhh right i forgot about that part. i agree it does feel like grubberfly's projectile should go more distance because the hitbox is bigger.
also will you be considering kingsoul charm? even though it has pretty limited use, the actual ability was decent despite costing 5 notches
@ I will definitely be considering Kingsoul! As a matter of fact, I really want it to be usable post-void heart! (which will require a special solution)
Maybe thorns and spores should have an interaction if they don't?
There's just quite a few charms that feel weird to not have special interactions for.
It would be interesting if the synergy of Grubberfly's Elegy and Fury of the Fallen reversed the order of your buff, i.e. at 1 mask its at full power and loses power the more masks you have, course its full power will be higher than without the synergy
That's a super interesting idea, Shadowflame! I'm writing that down just in case...
So say like, fury + elegy is the pre-rework 50%, while rework elegy is 70%.
I mean...given fury is a flat 75% increase to damage, it's still a...technically better option.
0:42 "Were simply far weaker than the selected power houses"
*highlights Grimm Child
Grimmchild bad Shape of Unn good
Yeah that was genuinely an insane moment. I had to rewatch that section since my brain just automatically assumed someone saying a charm in the bottom right is good must have been talking about melody
Its either melody or a meme.
Which imo melody isnt really THAT much of a powerhouse, but its debatable.
@@auh4806 yeah. It's not like overpowered or anything. At least in most situations. It can be great for some stuff
There will be NO SPEAKING DOWN TO GRIMMCHILD in this comment section! Shame on you all! 😡
Oen thing that most people say when they see my p5 charm build is "Why do you use sprintmaster?". And, I wanna say to them that it is the 3rd best 1 notch charm. All you do is go faster which really helps you with fast bosses like soul tyrant and the final trio of bosses(nkg, pv, absrad). Just wanted to say this. Also, wayward compass should be nerfed to cost 22 notches
You know, I can definitely see that argument in favour of Sprintmaster - some people seem to really enjoy using it, and I totally respect that!
Overcharming just to be able to navigate around the map 💀 I like it 👍👍
@the_holland sprintmaster is a very underrated charm. I used it since I beat pv for the first time. My p5 charm build is this btw: strength, qslash, shaman, sbody, sprintmaster. Helps against every boss. You can pretty much bully everyone with it.
@oshirothebubble Well dang, if it works for you, maybe I should try it on my next P5 run!
Basically my build except shaman instead of MoP, just ridiculously strong and reliable on every boss@oshirothebubble
I don’t really like sprint master for bosses because I’m too used to regular walking speed so might as well stick to that and keep the notch spot for something else
I like the ideas presented here, although I do have one criticism. That being that the new Stalwart Shell is very similar to the effects of Carefree Melody.
Other than that, I do like what you’ve done here, especially to the Grub Charms - simple, yet brilliant!
It seems this opinion has already been stated… never mind, great video regardless.
Thanks a lot for the kind words, and I'm glad you said the thing about Stalwart Shell even though it's already been said, because it helps me understand just how many people get that first impression.
So thanks a lot for the comment(s)!
”Grubsong gives soul for each mask lost"
The potent grubsong+deep focus+shape of unn combo:
(you need 33 soul to heal one mask normally, deep focus halves this cost, grubsong provides 15 soul per hit, unn provides a lot more opportunity to heal)
It's practically a cheat card against one mask bosses, as you can basically outheal all damage dealt to you. The only thing that limited it was two hit bosses and ascended, still, I was able to use this combo (+strength and thorns since I had 4 notches left) to beat all bosses on ascended. With this buff...I think that would be much, much easier.
Cool! I think healing builds need a reason to surge
@ the stawart shell change:
also, fun fact about deep focus, not only does it halfs the soul cost, it also decreases the time taken to heal. Basically, the time taken to heal two masks separatedly without deep focus is longer than healing it with deep focus. This is especially noticeable between radiance's p1 and p2, where you can heal noticeably faster and spend much less soul.
@ Well, that's one way to look at it I guess - but in terms of the single heal, the time is increased
@ well, it's just a bonus other than the soul cost decrease, the main effect. Still, the single heal is worth twice the normal heal, I'd call it efficient.
Sure it's more efficient, the main problem (I think) is how hard the charm makes it to fit in heals between tight attack patterns. Also at the cost of 4 notches.
But if it works for you, go for it!
10:35 given the stage of the game you can get sprint master in, you will already have a dash and likely have crystal dash, so there aren't any new aerial skips that are possible.
That's a really good point... don't you only get it after finding Sly's key or something?
@the_holland yup, and the key is in in the crystal peaks, so moving vast horizontal distances are not really game breaking after that.
I've saved your point in my folder, thank you so much for making it. I'll probably make a follow-up at some point to address issues like this one
Grubberfly new OP charm confirmed
By God would I love to see the Grubberfly meta!
The stalwart shell change made me think of carefree melody. It makes it better than carefree melody in nearly any case (wait vs rng). Maybe carefree melody would cost 2 notches and dodge every 4th attack, so like:
damage, damage, damage, dodge, damage, damage, damage, dodge, so on
And I'm looking forward to the rest of this series!
Yeah, I did make Stalwart Shell kind of similar to Melody. Making it cost less is actually a really good idea, maybe I should keep that...
Thanks for the comment!
Maybe Soul Catcher should start with +2 Soul per hit, and then each Soul Vessel they get add 1 to that. The only problem with this is that it makes Soul Eater mostly pointless, but if Soul Eater starts at 7 and gets boosted by 1 every soul vessel, then it would be perfect. With this, it keeps the double cost/double reward system, and makes them more useful and rewards you for exploration
You know what, that's actually a really interesting and cool idea! I kind of like that Soul Catcher could get stronger over the course of the game, ending up as a pretty strong charm in the late-game.
I'm saving that thought!
One synergy with grubberflys ellegy is if fury of the fallen, I am not sure how you had planned on changing that one but its very fun to put both them on, get to one mask then you swing with red beams which do some extra damage. It is just a cool synergy that keeping would be nice.
Totally! I'll definitely try to mention that synergy when talking about Fury!
The quality of this video is seriously impressive, I was astounded to see the channel at below a thousand subscribers! I am immensely interested in seeing the whole series, keep it up
Gosh, I seriously don't know what to say. That really means the world to me, Molotover. Thank you so much.
There is another sagnificant problem of gruberfly elegy, it does not give you soul if you hit an enemy with energy beam. How would it be fixed?
No. Just no.
Hollow Knight WON'T be a shooter game at which you only spam Grubberfly Elegy's attacks and Vengeful Spirits.
It's better to leave this downside.
I think it's a good point, Blober! Sure, you have to account for balance and all, but I do find it kind of boring that you don't gain any Soul when utilizing Elegy!
And Meiyu, I also get what you're saying
Loved this video! You deserve way more attention. Also, i hope there's modders who are willing to add your solutions to the game. Honestly, if i receive news of somebody who's doing that, ima just stop playing just so i can replay the game with these changes!
Man, that would be absolutely awesome!
I can’t believe this video is not more popular. It’s so well edited.
Seriously, that's such a nice thing of you to say. I really take that to heart - thank you so much
"I want to make every charm powerful and worth using"
"Wayward compass is useless. I will be making no changes"
Haha ;D I didn't say it was useless! But I guess you got me, it isn't really worth using in the late game. I'm making a very special exception for that one, though, as it just fits so well into the game!
Amazing quality also I LOVE the change you made to grubberfly's elegy I would love that getting implemented
Wow man, you're too kind! And I'm so glad you agree!
Really good video for such a small channel. 🔥
You're too kind, Nikkes - I appreciate that a lot
Not only is this video enjoyable to watch, with good pacing, script, visuals, all that, but it also has a lot of charm to it
I can’t wait to see what you plan to do for the rest of the charms.
(Also out of my own personal idea, I would probably have sprint master still increase height and jump movement but instead make it unlock able when you get Sly’s storage key)
Overall, very fun video and I can’t wait to see more from ya!
Wow, man, those are... really kind words. I'm flattered. That means so much to me.
So, I looked it up after making the video, and I think Sprintmaster *is* actually unlocked with the Storage Key! Which means your change should totally apply: allowing the speed increase to also apply while mid-air!
Thanks a ton for the comment!
This is amazing, love ur content.
I got into hollow knight bc of you and your videos, and just recently beat Path of Pain and Pantheon 5.
I only got 2 achievements left to do, thank you so much, this vid is so underatted im going to send it to my friends and family!
That's absolutely unbelievable, wow! What an amazing honour to have gotten someone into this wonderful game, and congrats on beating PoP and P5!! Holy crap you must've done that quickly, I did P5 only after like a year of playing!
Thank you so much for your comment!
I love it it's prety good and the changes sound really fair and right
Thanks Anne, that means a lot!
It is really nice to finally see someone doing charm balancing video on hollow knight. That being said I disagree with some points:
- I am not sure if putting Spell Twister as the baseline is good idea, becasue this charm is one of the stronger ones that could get a slight nerf. It was supposed to be charm that's better for good players that don't need to focus on healing and use mostly spells, but it gives too much and it's great for spells and good for heals. You can have 8 spells or 6 heals with this charm. In theory it is more beneficial that Soul Catcher on the maing vessel if you use 3 spells for every 1 heal and for the extra vessels it is 9 spells for every 1 heal, but because vessels don't store infinite amount of soul it doesn't really matter. So I think it could be nerfed by having 1 less soul from hitting enemies.
- I completely agree with what you said about Wayward Compass. I also force you to use it, so you need to change charms for the exploration and because of that you can have more opportunities to use diffrent charms.
- It is a small change for Gathering Swarm, but I would be so good qol change for the players.
- Your idea for Stalwart Shell rework is nice, but the issue is that we kinda already have too many health charms. Also it blocks dmg, so it would work in radiant fights, that's how block works in this game.
- Soul Catcher is for both healing and using spells, that's why players that played this game for long will not use it and they would use Spell Twister instead. I don't think it's underpowered, but it feels that way. The changes you propose have some issues with other charms. The first one would mean that Soul Eater should give at least 13 soul, because the higher cost charms are supposed to be more efficient and that would be overpovered, meanwhile making it 1 notch and giving only 2 soul is also not good idea, because it would be completely overshadowed by grubsong, that you also buffed. I think this charm doesn't need changes.
- Shaman Stone should give smaller dmg bonus, but making it all 25% would be really bad for abyss shriek and descending dark, it wouldn't be that bad for shade soul, because it's already doesn't deal that much dmg, but with shaman stone it can easily double hit enemies. For shriek and descending dark it would be better to give 35% more dmg, not 25%.
- Soul Eater is really good charm and it doesn't need to be stronger. You can use spells or heals in less than 2 hits. Also the reason why I think some charms cost 4 charm notches is because every single one of them could break the game balance, that's why team cherry was really harsher on them.
- Dashmaster is charm you don't really need, but it is fine to have it. So making it 1 notch isn't that bad.
- I don't like Sprintmaster, because when you jump you feel a lot slower, so for me this isn't really that good change.
- Grubsong is already one of the best charms in the game and I can see why some people see why it should be in S tier. That being said I think it should be nerfed, because it gives 15 extra soul for free, you would need to get 5 hits with catcher to get the same extra amount. Also the synergy with Grubbersfly's Elegy is broken, you can have infinite healing with it and deep focus. So I think it should give 13 soul on hit and 20 with Grubberfly's Elegy. Now that I am thinking, you could give both the nerfs and the buff you suggested.
- Grubberfly's Elegy is strange charm for me. I really don't like using it, because it feels just bad and i don't know how to change that.
I totally agree that we need more charm-balancing videos! That's why I had to make this one.
I read all of your proposes, and while I do disagree with most of them, I think you make some good points. Here are the ones I liked the most:
1. Grubsong is really good already, and so I do agree that it's dangerous to buff.
2. Letting Shaman Stone grant a 35% damage boost to Shriek and DDark might be the way to go.
3. Wayward compass giving you a chance to change your build when you have to put it on and off is such a genius thing to notice - I never thought about it that way! That's damn clever, man.
4. Stalwart shell is the change I was the least comfortable with suggesting, so it probably deserves heavy critique.
Thanks a ton for the comment!
I was so disappointed this didn't include all the charms but these are genuinely some great ideas and i can't wait to see what you bring for the rest
I *promise you* I'm gonna release the rest of the rebalances! It just takes a while for me to do the writing and recording and editing, but I'm truly flattered that you enjoyed it :)
I'm not too convinced by most of your changes but I actually love the grubberfly elegy one cause it also makes the synergy with fury of the fallen more usable as the in between state isn't as awkward.
Very true!
6:22 The problem with 1 cost SC imo is that it effectively does not help at very important breaking points (current SC gives you your 2nd spell at 5 hits instead of 6, this one would still require 6 hits for more than 66 soul). It would only save you a nail swing for your third spell (8 instead of 9).
That's true, but think of the cost! 1 notch is so cheap to run that practically any buff it worth it. That's how I see it!
Incredible video! congrats and keep up the good work!
Thank you so much, man! It means the world to me
Really good video! Would be cool to see how you would change all the other charms! Or add new synergies :)
Thanks a ton, Speghettigod! I'll definitely get to it!
Thanks for the comment ❤️
Incredible video! Good work
Thanks a ton, man! I appreciate that so much
These are amazing ideas for reworking charms plus,this is an extremely underated video.
Thank you so much for those very kind words, Gehansoliman. I really appreciate it!
How the heck does this video have less than 50k views? It's a f**king masterpiece!
While i do feel like this video is severely underrated i can't help but disagree on the grubberfly's elegy change, mainly due to the pogo.
Since the light wave is a projectile and as such requires time to cross x distance i don't feel like giving it pogo properties is a good idea, mainly for how much this would screw over a player's perception of the pogo, imagine this:
You are pogoing an enemy in order to reach higher terrain, due to the wave being a projectile the pogo can have either an annoying delay or make you go flying upwards more than what you think it should.
I tried this while trying to mod hollow knight and there were cases in Wich a delayed pogo screwed me over due to their unpredictable nature, i was sent flying due to using wings at the same time the projectile hit or both the blade and the projectile hit at the same time causing me to be propelled a lot higher than expected.
In short giving the players pogo in the grubberfly elegy can result in a steady body type of situation, where you either hate or love it with no place in between and i don't feel like that is a good design philosophy for anything at all.
I have no idea how so many kind souls found their way to my small channel, but wow are you guys just the nicest people! Thank you so much for saying that!
You. Are. ABSOLUTELY RIGHT! Gosh darn it, I totally didn't think of that! I'll have to address your point in a later video, because that just downright breaks the charm. Thanks a ton for pointing that out, and for doing it in such a nice way. I really do appreciate it!
I'm on board with all of these changes. fingers crossed either you or someone is able to make a Mod because i would love to do a playthrough with these balances plus whatever you have instore for the rest of the charms. Looking forward to the next one :)
Thanks man! And yeah, that would be awesome! XD
Bro what the quality is immaculate I’m subbing
Man, that's so nice of you to say 🥺 thank you.
@ you just got 1k congrats!
No less thanks to yourself!! Thank you so much
i love how grimmchild is apparently a powerhouse now
You almost sound... surprised 🤔
This channel has a lot of potential and i would like to see more of this videos
I appreciate that, Spider! I'll definitely be releasing more Hollow Knight-related content, as well as the rest of this series :)
Love no changes to wayward btw. I agree. It is masterfully designed.
Right? I think it's pretty darn well made too!
I'm surprised I haven't seen a video like this earlier, finally someone talking about it!
You expressed a lot of my common frustrations with the charm system. I love Hollow Knight, but this imbalance can drive me nuts. I think you excellently identified the shortcomings of charms featured in this video, however, I do not entirely agree with the solutions you came to.
First and foremost. I've already seen that mentioned in the comments, but I think it's worth repeating: it's not only about how many charms are outclassed on their own, it's also about their lack of powerful synergies. The example of Weaversong shows that even a mediocre charm can be elevated to true greatness by a well-though out synergy with a different one. However, almost none of actual synergies To add insult to injury, none of the top tier charms have any synergies at all - as a result, one of the game's potentially most fun mechanics is left completely out of the meta.
A lot of the charms you covered in this video could use a good synergy or two. Another thing is how these boosted charms can interact with other charms, especially if those are boosted too - you risk swinging too hard in the other direction and breaking the game in many unexpected ways. Though admittedly, I'd also prefer to boost charms rather than nerf them. Not a fan of Shaman Stone nerf. I propose a solution: anti-synergies! If a certain combination of charms produces a potentially game-breaking effect, make one of them stop working if both are equipped. If there are charms which like each other, maybe there are charms that hate each other too?
That was a lovely analysis, I hope you continue this future videos!
Those are my charm specific notes:
- Gathering Swarm: I believe there is a fun way to make this one somewhat usable in battle - a synergy with Glowing Womb! Once Glowing Womb is reworked into actual usability, it could form the foundation of playable minion build. Make GS increase the total amount of hatchlings to 6 and spawn 2 at a time. A tiny swarm of three - you and two hatchlings!
- Stalwart Shell: not a bad idea at all, even if three notches for an effect that activates only once every 30 seconds seems a bit too harsh. There are few battles in the game which you can't realistically end within a minute; if you menage that, you only get to use the charm once every battle... Still, my biggest doubt is in how this one's effect relates to possible reworks for Baldur's Shell and Carefree Melody. It feels like this version of SS runs the risk of becoming interchangable with the other two.
- Soul Catcher and Soul Eater: you nailed it exactly with why Soul Eater is so problematic. That said, I would prefer to keep their original notch cost and boost Soul generation instead. There is nothing wrong with Soul Eater staying at four - if enough other charms have their notch cost lowered, it should all balance itself out.
- Shaman Stone: again, not a fan of this one. I think that damage boost reduction all the way down to 25% is way too harsh, especially because there are almost no other ways to increase spell damage in vanilla game. Down to 40% for ddark and shriek would be acceptable. Again, anti-synergies.
- Grubsong: I'm surprised you decided to boost this one; in my opinion, Grubsong is, similarly to Spell Twister, one of the only truly balanced charms. If you consider how much Soul you'd be getting with this charm boosted and how much you could be saving with, say boosted Deep Focus... I think it could get rather silly.
- Grubberfly: This one is one of the two with most waasted potential. It was done so dirty... The effect is very cool but impractical in almost every way: the notch cost is punishing, the damage reduction is far too great, the effect is easy to loose and once lost, hard to regain. I think that your idea is great in addressing the latter two, but the charm is still too expensive and deserves more interactivity. Plus, there is something to be said about the charm's design rewarding player for specific style of play (staying at max health) and this being partially lost in an attempt to make it easier to use. Here's my attempt at boosting it:
Grubberfly's Elegy: reduced notch cost by 1; damage output reduced only by 33.3% instead of 50% (3, 6, 10, 12, 14), Fragile Strength mitigates the effect entirely; receive 8 soul for each time a projectile hits a target; synergy with Lifeblood Heart and Lifeblood Core: increase projectile damage by 50% (stacks multiplicately; GE + FS = 5, 9, 13, 17, 21;
GE + FS + LH/LC = 7, 14, 23, 27, 32)
(Synergy with Mark of Pride stays the same, though it could be boosted. Synergy with Fury of the Fallen stays the same.)
Sorry for the spam, I didn't want to clog the comment section with my musings, but I also REALLY wanted to share these notes...
Thanks man, I'm so glad you agreed that we should talk more about this issue! I just couldn't believe that no one had made a video like this before!!
GENERAL COMMENTS:
1. Charms should definitely have more synergies that were worth your time! I agree 100%
2. Uhhh, anti-synergy is a cool idea. Wonder if it'll feel bad though, if it ends up stunting creativity? I suppose you'd just have to be careful to only add anti-synergies to very select (and overpowered) charm combos, like Strength and Quick Slash.
3. Definitely a fear that I'll swing too far in the other direction, but even if I did (given it weren't *too-too* far), at this point, I'd still just like to see the meta changed up almost no matter the cost.
4. Thank you so much for the kind words. I really appreciate you!
CHARM META-COMMENTS (only if you've got the time!):
* Gathering Swarm: That's a really cool idea, and very thematic for "gathering swarm" to buff swarms of enemies!
* Stalwart Shell: You're totally right to be worried about Carefree Melody becoming too similar to the new Stalwart Shell. I'll see what I can do.
* Soul Catch & Soul Eater: Well, I still see problems at four notches for Overcharming, but I'm glad you agreed with the change(s) overall for those two charms!
* Shaman Stone: I see your point. The only reason I went so hard against it was because I was scared that not nerfing it into the ground would just mean people kept using it at the same rate as before. But maybe you're right.
* Grubsong: You're right, boosting this one was a dangerous move. I was just unsure whether people actually used it for bosses that dealt two or more damage, and for those that don't, the change thankfully doesn't apply :)
* Grubberfly's Elegy: Wow, you really thought a lot about this! I especially like the change where you can actually get Soul by using Elegy, I hadn't thought about that... I'll have to write it down.
Absolutely no need to apologize, I read everything and I loved it! So glad some of your are sharing your thoughts, and they're settling alight so many sparks of motivation in my mind!
Really appreciate the comment, man!
Make spore shroom 2 notches, but it replaces vengeful spirit with a mushroom cloud, but it does 33% more dames, just over time
That's pretty interesting 🤔
Me reaction when heavy blow is unchanged. Best charm confirmed
Fun video though, some interesting ideas!!
Me reaction when BLUE IS IN MY COMMENT SECTION. There's no way. I love your videos!
Thank you so much, man. That means a lot!
Personally. I think a cool change for dash master would be lowering the cooldown till shade cloak is active. That way you can use the invulnerable dash more as well, making it more applicable in combat.
You could then make its synergy with sprintmaster lower it even further (sprintmaster wont lower it by itself. But it would with dash master) thus making the synergy even better to run. Making it more justified for traversal. You could also probably run a sharp shadow build in some fights with this which is cool synergy.
It's funny, already like 3 or 4 people have suggested that very same change! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
I would make dashmaster not have a 1 charm notch cost. But instead give it an additional passive that recharges shade cloak dash faster which could make it slightly better.
A lot of people seem to think that, and I'm definitely not opposed!
Grubsong also allows weaverlings from weaversong to give the player a small amount of soul every time they hit an enemy
That's true! I believe I decided to mention that in the upcoming video about Weaverlings, but I'm glad you pointed it out anyway :D
honestly an idea i think it would be really cool is that when you equip dashmaster and sprintmaster you can sprint 70% faster and dash up (but with a smaller dash, like a triple jump at the cost of your dash) that would be a cool sinergy and wouldn't reveal areas that you weren't supposed to see since you get dashmaster pretty late
Idea to make dash master more combat friendly: make it increase the speed of the dash itself. Many cases while fighting larger bosses (especially PV) i have an issue where i am too far away to strike, but too close to dash without taking contact damage, this is usually after dashing once, as bosses dont often move too far away from the knight, so if i can close that distance in less time i might be able to turn one hit into 2, or 3 with quick slash. This would also make the delay between dashes (after a dash ends and before a new dash can be done) a little larger
What a really fun and cool idea, Purevessel! I love it!
Btw shamon stone does change the size of other spells it's just no where near as much for shade soul
Really, is that so? Well shucks, I guess I went off some misinformation on the wiki! Thanks for pointing that out
I think grubberfly elegy should just give soul each hit. Not 11, but like 5 or 6 soul (more in synergy with soul catcher/eater), turning you into full ranger build
I like that change!
Good video, love the ideas especially for the elegy. The only one I disliked (which is because of the nature of the charm) is sprintmaster since the issue with the charm is that you dont walk at all while on combat, you mostly jump or dash. So when you mentioned the synergy it has with weaversong, I think in order to make the charm more viable,I thought you were gonna go with that it should have more synergies with existing charms. Synergies with other charms are an underrated method of balancing existing charms.
That's definitely a very good point! I don't use Sprintmaster very much either, but I've heard that some people actually like it for fights where you don't dash too often. I'd still tend to agree with you that synergies might be the way to go.
Thanks you the comment!
You killed shaman stone bro
Bye-bye meta!
@the_holland maybe...but please also nerf strenght in the next video
I will!!!
Damn, the Charms that synergize best with the base combat system work the best? Thats crazy.
Yeah, you're totally right... and that's what made me want to stir things up a little bit!
Personally I love Dashmaster thanks to its slew of synergies, so I don't think it really needs a buff in combat, but I wouldn't complain lol
I love the Elegy change, aside from the beam-pogoing since that could break some parkour sections. FYI it already does work with Mark Of Pride :3
Yeah, I may have accidentally screwed parkour with my Elegy change ':D
Well, as far as I understand, it only works with Pride in the sense that the beams become wider rather than shooting farther. That's what I'd want to change :)
@the_holland Oh, really? I thought it also went a little farther, maybe I was just imagining it lol
@ So did I! And you'd really think that would be the case, but according to the wiki, that's a "nope" :')
I actually love your stalwart shell, it's basically hiveblood but actually good
My go to build is: soul catcher, quickslash, dashmaster, mark of pride
Cool!
I think most changes are great, but i think that shamans was treated to harshly. for some spells it‘s a 50% nerf. 35% would be more fitting, especially as there is a lot of power creep involved. I‘m exited for the next video!
I can definitely see that argument, Speck :)
Thanks for the kind words!
AMAZING! Continue the greit workshop😊
Wow, thanks a lot man! I will!
I liked the video, though as many others have already mentioned there is reason for imbalance among charms to exist, especially charms that have similar effects/end results. Not that it invalidates your video. It's very interesting to see your opinion on how to change charms to bring them to one power level.
And a separate thing from the video content itself and a recommendation for video creation, there is a chapter system or whatever it's called again on TH-cam that lets you divide the video into segments with titles and it's a very useful feature for these kinds of videos where your video has very distinct sections like the different charms here. It lets one easily jump between the different charms so I'd recommend adding chapters to your future videos if applicable as well as retroactively adding it here if such a thing is possible.
You're totally right, and I'm sitting here shamefully reading through all the great points that people made about how wrong I was 😅 I really appreciate all the wonderful feedback, and I'll try to do better next time!
Yes, yes, yes! That's a great idea! I've messed around with it before, but I just couldn't seem to get it to work - but I'll definitely be trying that with this video!
In my recent replay through Hollow Knight, I noticed the same issue. Gotta say, I love your rebalance ideas, and I find all of them very agreeable and would love trying them. I do think that a lot of charms being overshadowed stems from the context of being used against bosses, mainly in Godhome. Because of that, I do like the idea that you'd also nerf some of the stronger charms, too. Is interesting.
Thanks a lot, man, I truly appreciate that. And yeah, you're right about a lot of charms falling off because you just end up just fighting bosses in Godhome during so much of the late-game; I hope I can do something about that in future videos too.
Thanks a for the comment!
4:28 I believe Stalwart Shell shouldn't block a hit if that hit would have killed you. Not only does this keep the spirit of Radiant boss fights, but the game does have a whole fancy effect when you're at one HP, and I feel that the reworked Stalwart Shell would ruin the spirit of that.
Can Carefree Melody block damage when you're at one health? I don't actually know.
I think that's a good point, and it would save Radiant fights as you mention. Probably should then also be applied to Melody, if that charm is already capable of saving you at one mask. Or maybe it just shouldn't work for Radiant fights :)
Thanks for the comment!
the only problem with stalwart shell is you made it quite good, and it is really easy to obtain early game
Yeah... that might be true. Although, I think the 30 seconds *is* quite a long time to wait. But you may be right.
For my randomizer sessions, I balanced Soul Eater this way:
Soul gained in main: 8 >> 11
Soul gained in soul vessel: 6 >> 5
This way the charm feels much more dynamic and fun to use while also justifying its high cost.
So what, it gives less soul if your main vessel is full?
@the_holland less than normal yes, but it is already reduced in vanilla
Really, oh wow. I think I've heard of that, actually! Yeah, I kind of like that a lot, since it encourages you to use you soul quickly after obtaining it!
You just made grubberfly the best charm in the game and I'm all for it 🤣🤣🤣🤣
People have pointed to some problems with it, so whoops! But I'm glad you agree!! 😆
I’m excited for the next parts where you’ll cover some controversial charms like the “pets” and defensive charms
I'm so glad you're excited about that! So am I! It'll be interesting to see how I break those too 😆
@the_holland Honestly, you deserve a lot more attention and I'm sure it'll come soon enough
You're too kind, too kind!
Dash and sprint have a sinergy that makes you sprint faster if I recall correctly, I think that should be considered on the rebalance
That's truuuuuue actually, I forgot to mention that!
Sprint master is so underrated one of my favorites as for the jumping and dashing problem I honestly would like it if nailmasters glory increase your overall movement speed by a little seeing as it comes from sly a very speedy boi plus it makes it actually viable for people who forget about nail arts (me)
Sly is, in fact, a very speedy boi.
And I can see where you're coming from with that change!
Very cool video! But I think if you'll ever make part 2 of this video and you'll be wondering what buffs you could give to a charm, you could not buff charm, but buff its combos with other charms or create new ones. I think that would be a nice way to buff it without changing much
That's a good idea, Rat! I'll to keep that in mind
I think that a cool change for dash master might be to change the cooldown of your shade cloak later in the game. It would then have early game utility and late game combat improvements
It's funny, someone already mentioned that, and I think I've even thought of it too before. I've considered giving that functionality to Sharp Shadow, but giving it to Dashmaster is also a really fun and interesting idea!
I think a better buff to grubberflys elegy would be to make the projectiles deal more damage, maybe 75-100% nail damage, and have them give you soul (slightly less than a nail hit would), but to keep how you need to be at full health to maintain. This way, rather than becoming useless upon taking a hit, it can sustain itself by giving you soul to heal but at a slower rate than the nail and it maintains the design idea of needing full hp for its effects
Wait hold on, I don't understand how that works? If the beam turns off when not at full health, how does it help you save up Soul for healing?
@the_holland when attacking with it at full health, the beams give you soul which can then be used to heal yourself if you take damage. The idea is to make it a more present part of your build because with the way it is in the game, it encourages you to attack from a distance to take advantage of it while simultaneously encouraging you to get up close and personal to get soul to heal any damage you might take to keep the effect going. I think having the beams give you soul fixes that and makes it so you actually get to USE the charms effect
Ohh, like that. Now I get your point!
Yeah, I kinda like that. Although, as soon as you start losing 2 or 3 health, you're probably not getting the charm back for the current fight, which still is kind of sad to me.
But not a bad idea!
Amazing vid! Earned yourself a sub
Godamn that was fast with the heart
Wow, thank you so much, Muffin! I'm really glad you enjoyed it :)
@ please please, call me mischievous, muffin was my fathers name
@ Oh I apologize my good Sir - Mischievous it is!
Amazing video, can't wait to see the rest! I disagree with stalwart shell as I think with this rework it's too similar to carefree melody though
Thank you so much! And yes, yes you are absolutely right, it is too similar... that's definitely my bad. Thanks for the comment!
grubberflies elegy should give 50% the soul of a nail swing
I tend to agree with that!
Wayward Compass and Gathering Swarm having synergy in swarming towards hidden passageways / breakable walls could be a cute bonus.
Mark of Pride + Longnail should increase nail length even more than their combined length by juuuust a bit.
Baldur Shell should recover faster when you also have Stalwart Shell (maybe this is already a thing).
Grubberfly Elegy should change the max health sword beams to sword beams that consume a small amount of soul. Grubsong should then help you regain soul even faster when Grubberfly is equipped.
Just some random synergies.
Shocked, SHOCKED to see this video not have more views
I'm shocked at the kindness of you people! Gosh darnit if that isn't just the nicest thing to hear - thank you so much for the kind words.
As long as shaman keeps the bigger spells. I will not have my double fireball hit taken from me.
It definitely should! That's an awesome part of the charm :D
if grubberfly's elegy lost the pots and pans sound it would already be usable
Oh yeah, I remember it sounding a bit off :')
Stalwart shell would be a great idea if radiance mode wasn’t a thing. But it could probably nerfed for that and still make you take damage or something along those lines. Making a stun mechanic for it during radiance could also be a good idea
Yeah, it probably shouldn't work on Radiant bosses... or, as you mention, do something different :)
Your Stalwart shell change makes carefree melody obsolete
I will be taking a look at Carefree Melody in the future, but you're right that this change makes them quite similar... still, I do think they have meaningful differences :)
Not gonna lie but I absolutely lovrd Sprint+Dashmasters charms when I was speedrunning 112 (fpr achievements). They're great to traverse, ans they're great for combat too. When you can dash and around around like you're bug on crack, it actually saves quite a bit from attacks that othervice would've been a guaranteed hits.
This is very true, so many of these charms have a very defined use case and just because it isn't a universal charm that is always having an effect doesn't mean its a bad charm.
I can totally see that!
If this isn't planned as a mod, someone has to make this
I would love to get in contact with a modder!
I feel like simply nerfing the Shaman stone’s damage would probably disrupt the game balance. The problem is that spell builds rely on Shaman stone at their core as the only real damage boost, putting the charm in an uncomfortable situation where it is overpowered in the early game since it needs to keep pace with endgame nail builds. Nerfing the effects of Shaman stone for the sake of the early game would make spell builds unviable in the endgame. Instead, I suggest breaking the Shaman stone into two two-notch charms (the second being found later in the game), each one providing half (or slightly more) of the current charm’s power. This would allow spells to be better paced in terms of power throughout the game without sacrificing their endgame potential.
See, I respectfully disagree with your proposed solution. I don't like charms as a progression system, and I promise you that I'll be nerfing nail-centered charms in later videos to make up for the nerf to Shaman Stone.
I want to shake up the meta, and to do that, Shaman Stone has to be weaker in all stages of the game.
I wonder how difficult it would be to mod some of these changes in, and whether the community would be interested in play throughs of it.
So do I! Wow, that would be really cool - I wish I knew anything about modding ':D
shaman stone was nerfed to oblivion, make it like 40% cuz spelltwister is 33% so its still worth the 3 notches
That's a BUFF for Vengeful Spirit, though!
I also don't think Shaman Stone and Spell Twister are comparable quite in that manner, because one requires more work (spending the soul from Spell Twister), while Shaman Stone can also double-hit for even more applied damage.
Thanks for the comment anyways!
Someone should make a mod with these changes because I'd love to try them out
That would be amazing! So would I!
great vid, i gotta disagree with soul eater though, the problem isnt as much that 4 notches is way too much (which to be fair, doesnt help), but the fact that using that much soul effectively in combat is very hard. Perhaps an increase on soul capacity or on how quickly spells come out would be a suitable solution
That's a pretty cool idea too, I like the idea of quicker spell casts!
Nice. Though I don’t play hollow knight (I plan to but time restrictions and college is coming soon) I feel like the main problem of this series that would make balancing difficult is the charm node cost, how early you get the charm, and different niches such as exploration charms vs combat charms.
Also strength and quick slash gonna be gutted I just know it.
Third or something
College is the best time to play Hollow Knight 😎
I completely agree that spell twister is a perfectly balanced charm
grubberflys eledgy would indirectly buff the lifeblood charms, which i think is a good thing because ive always thought they were pretty weak
True! That's a pretty good point tbh, although doesn't it already work like that?
@ it does??? i didnt know that!
Funny how experienced players have a different view of the charms. When I was first exploring, I kept getting hit, so thorns of agony was my favourite charm haha! Now it's sharp shadow. If you buff sharp shadow, I will never take it off.
That's pretty funny, I've never heard someone talk positively about thorns ;D - but I think it's great to just pick up what works for you! Screw the meta
@the_holland Yeah. I don't like optimizing the fun out of a game - and hey, if I can get to AbsRad with my build, then it clearly works for me! (Sharp shadow+quickslash+strength+grubsong+either dashmaster or heart).
Dude, I love Shard Shadow too, even if it isn't the best charm ever - it's just so much fun!!
@the_holland what even is "the best" charm? There are ones that the community decided are the "optimal" ones, but what if someone doesn't like using spells that much, for example? Charms should encourage different types of gameplay, suited to the player, and balancing them could help alleviate that gap between "basically useless" and "only ones worth using".
Agreed :)
my boy, you massacred shaman stone
Muahaha! That's right!
Now you'll HAVE to run Grimmchild 😈
yeahh.... im gonna need part 2 ASAP!!!!
I can't express how much it means to me that you are excited to see a part 2! Thank you so much for watching man, god damn
@the_holland peak recommendation pull ong bro keep cooking
oh bro you're too kind, too kind
The buff to stallward shell is a better carefree melody
Well, probably ':D - that's my bad
While I don't exactly disagree with getting to keep the sword beams when less than full health, the base design of that charm is very clearly a Zelda reference, so extending its usefulness in that way does technically break your own rule about not straying too far from a charm's original intention. ...Also, I'm just imagining the knockback leading to a lot of sideways pogo-ing into spike walls and pits, particularly in situations where both heavy combat and spikes or other hazards/hurtboxes are present. Quite Foolish. A Radiant disaster.
1. I didn't actually realize it was a reference, so I guess you're right about that. Although I believe I'd still rather want a fun charm than one true to its reference material.
2. You're so right about the pogo'ing thing, and others have pointed it out too. I should've thought of that.
Thanks for commenting!
Stalwart Charm helped me alot with cheesing NMG.
Wow, really? Dang, I'd never heard of someone successfully putting it to use!
@the_holland th-cam.com/video/NjS7S2-RzhA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=L-bZe02k0BdYACaH
@ Wow! That's really cool. Why is it NMG, though? Isn't it just Grimm? 😅
@the_holland My bad. That video helped me cheese Grimm, and get a 11th notch. 🥳
@ Damn, it's pretty cool! I like when people discover stuff like that
Grimmchild is the best charm in the entire game and you cant prove me wrong
FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT, jeez
I really like the changes made to stalwart shell, but to prevent the problem with radiant bosses you could make it act kind of like the grim damage prevention charm. If you were to combine them, you could make the reward for banishing grim an upgrade for stalwart shell.
Fair enough! I think my biggest problem with the change I proposed was simply that it made Stalwart Shell too similar to Carefree Melody :')
0:42 Grimmchild thinks it's on the team
as soon as I find out how to block comments...
you forgot to mention the synergy between sprintmaster and dashmaster which increases the speed of sprintmaster to nearly the same amount as your rework