VICTRON SMART SHUNT -smart enough?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- If you are camping off-grid then it’s a good idea to know exactly how much power is remaining in your leisure battery and a shunt is a great way to do that. I purchased the Victron Smart Shunt several months ago and in this video I explain, as simply as possible, how a shunt works, why you would need one and how to install them.
I also cover the features of the Victron smart shunt and some minor limitations I found in the “smart” features that it boasts. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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I hve seen countless videos explaining shunts & in particular the Victron brand & my friend yr explanation has been the best. Thanks
a very concise and understandable walk through of the product thank you
Thankyou glad you found it helpful.
Well done sir. I learned a ton, and it was a pleasure to watch a well structured presentation.
Great video…thank you
You're welcome, glad you found it useful.
Excellent instructional video Thanking You 2000%. I think some battery's have things like these fitted inside
Thanks glad you liked it and found it helpful. Some batteries, specifically in this case LifePO4, do indeed have a method of measuring their remaining capacity. However some of them use the cell voltage instead of counting the amps in and out as a shunt would do. This makes them more accurate over long periods where the battery is not being charged to 100% (and therefore not allowing the shunt to effectively re-calibrate). I always use my KS-Energy battery's built in bluetooth for checking capacity when in storage over winter. But it also makes them more susceptible to other influences on the battery voltage. But they are still, I think, more accurate than a simple voltage meter across the terminals as they will be designed for the specific configuration and also are constantly monitoring and so make allowances to give a more accurate figure.
Hi Dave, thank you for your video - it makes more sense now! I saw on your phone list of Bluetooth connections you have or had a KS Energy lithium battery. I’m just about to order a 200ah lithium battery from my motorhome. Can I ask if your experience with KS has been positive? Thanks Martin
Thanks Martin glad it helped. Well spotted I have the 60ah KS battery and it’s been great no real complaints at all. I have a review of it on my channel if you are interested.
Dave
This helped a ton. If you go with either of these, do you get the same looking interface on a smart phone that you would with a GX Touch 50? That looks pretty good how its shows the devices, graphics showing power direction, power sharing, etc. I can't find any images of the Victron Connect App with this same GUI.
Hi Tim glad to hear that helped. I've not seen any holistic system type displays anywhere on the app. The latest update puts some basic information on the initial device list screen such as the battery % for the shunt and solar power for the charger (that's from memory as I don't have it in front of me).
You have to go into each device to see more detail and it doesn't really show information from other devices when you do. I think I've seen similar screens on their website for the windows app but certainly not in the mobile app.
Actually, the smart shunt does have memory available to log data and it will be available in a future update. I can see why the Victron SmartSolar doesn’t store data from the SmartShunt. If you need that level of integration, Victron wants you to purchase a CerboGX device. I’ve tested the beta version of the SmartShunt with data logging and it was more than capable to provide that historical data you’re looking for apart from the bugs that are still in their software. I would imagine that it’s only going to get better with time. You are correct in that it is a shortcoming of the SmartShunt but I do believe it is being addressed. What I didn’t see however was any way to see what my daily Ah battery consumption was. I can see a total Ah draw from the battery but that number changes once there is input from the solar array and I’d really like to see what my total Ah output was for a 24 hour period. I think this would help in determining how large of a battery bank one needs as well as how large of a solar array is needed to put that power back into your battery. Otherwise, it’s a little bit of a guessing game and requires a little more math on a manual level. Maybe I’m missing something?
Hi Gainestr,
Good to hear that an update may be coming to unlock that memory. I suspect you’re correct in that Victron may want us to purchase a CerboGX. It’s a bit overkill to log some pretty basic data though, the CerboGX models I’ve seen are almost as much as the shunt and solar controller together.
In terms of calculating the “daily Ah consumption” they may have omitted that since the definition of consumption may differ. For example is it everything that came out of the battery or all power that was consumed by the entire system? The later would be the total solar output plus deficit from the battery at the end of the day compared to what it started with. When the solar is producing current then the draw from the battery is zero (unless it is not full) so I think that the shunt would struggle to work this out since it is in parallel with the panel and so out of the loop (if you’ll excuse the pun) on what current is flowing. If the solar controller and shunt exchanged and stored this data then one or the other could give a complete picture. Maybe the CerboGX does this?
I think if it was possible to log the maximum and minimum state of charge of the battery for each day that would go a long way for determining bank requirements (albeit in retrospect).
Thanks for letting everyone know that that update is coming down the line.
Was wondering what that little red wire was for. Probably also how it determines the voltage.
Yes it also detects the voltage as without it the shunt would only be able to measure the voltage across the shunt which is not the same thing as the battery voltage.
Great video! I’m still looking for a “perfect” setup to feed a 220 Ah Lithium Battery (bms) by Solar, dc/dc or tr and wall power. By Victron interfaces. Battery is non-Victron. And the shunt by Victron. Lot’s of videos, but still complicated.
Not sure if there’s ever a perfect setup 😄
But at least with Victron they have pretty much every device you'd need and most of it communicates with each other.
Hope my video helped make it a little less complicated.
Very detailed explanation. Where I get confused is whether or not the app can calculate current wattage consumption from an inverter draw. IE, the only draw is a 500watt device from an inverter. Does the app show that 500watt draw accurately even with an incoming solar charge through charging the battery?
The shunt only shows what is going into or coming out of the battery. If the inverter is turned OFF, then what is recorded by the shunt is what the solar charger is putting in. If the solar charger is OFF, the shunt shows what the inverter is taking out. If both are ON at the same time (charger and inverter), then you have to do the arithmetic: Inverter load = Solar Charger Output-Battery Input. Best us a clamp on DC digital amp meter to get the real inputs to the inverter, and not rely on the LCD on the inverter telling you what the output is because of inefficiencies in the inverter itself. I have a Victron shunt, and as of fall of 2022 it has a graphical history of any two variables you want to track. I like it.
Dave great video and lots of good info yet again.
I am thinking of getting a Victron smartshunt as well however I use a portable folding solar panel which I put up on arrival at site. As I usually connect straight to the battery with crocodile clips I don't think this would be possible with the setup required for the shunt.
The positive crocodile connection to the battery would be I think OK but where would the negative connection go?
Would it have to go to the shunt "to system minus" side and not to the negative battery post where I normally put it.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Cheers Peter
Thanks Peter glad you found it useful. The negativr solar connection should really go to the shunt (on the side away from the battery) that way input current will get measured correctly. Whilst crocodile clips aren't ideal (especially for large panels) it should still work OK assuming that you can get the cable to it from the panel of course. I made another video about a DIY external MC4 connector which you may find helpful. Can't find the link right now as on a coach in Stockholm but if you search my channel for MC4 you should find it easily.
@@DTSquared thank you for the reply.
I will check the video out.
With what you have said I think I will remove the crocodile clip and put a ring terminal on and connect permanently to the shunt that way. The solar panel cable has a plastic socket connection so will still be able to disconnect the panel from the system leaving the negative part still connected to the shunt. Hope that makes sense.
Have a good coach trip.
Cheers
I have a related information transfer question. I too have a 75/15 MPPT SOLAR controller. I have bought a Cerbo GX and wish to connect the 2 for data transfer. There is not a VE direct port on the smaller controllers. Can you use the jumper port (remove jumper, I don’t use the Load feature anyway) on the solar controller and if so, what are the connectors and cable? I find your videos excellent and thanks for sharing!
Hi Daniel Are you not able to link the solar controller to the Cerbo using Bluetooth as a be smart network? I don’t think you can repurpose connections as a VE port. May be worth reaching out to Victron they are usually pretty good on support.
@@DTSquared Thanks for your quick response. I will reach out to Victron. Enjoying your channel!
If you bought a "Blue Solar" device, it lacks all the smart features that are on the "Smart Solar" products.
They both have ve.direct ports. There is normally a jumper on the two middle pins of the socket when you get it. The back of the manual has some details and images of how that works. I have my SmartShunt and SmartSolar 75/15 both connected to a Color Control GX using ve.direct cables both working very well with the data being sent to VRM.
I notice that you have installed the same lithium battery and Victron set up as me. What I don’t understand is the Victron app shunt shows a different capacity to the KS energy app with the KS app showing more capacity than the Victron. I’ve connected all ground via the shunt so that’s not the problem I’ve also charged the battery with a Victron charger set for lithium before telling the shunt that the battery is at 100% so a bit puzzled.
The KS app/BMS uses a slightly different methodology to calculate the state of charge. I usually find there's a couple of percent difference but nothing to particularly worry about. Here's some words from Neal at KS when I asked about it.
*quote*The SOC gauge algorithm logs both current and battery impedance to estimate the SOC, and the impedance can be variable with things like temperature, load, or trying to charge over a period at an incorrect voltage. The Victron shunt you have can be a little more advanced and accurate for SOC once its set-up and calibrated since a shunt can more accurately log current, but even using this it can accumulate inaccuracy’s and may fail to auto calibrate during use if you are using a range of different charge voltages.*endquote*
Hope that helps
Dave
I just got this shunt today and have it on a 24v100ah lifepo4 lithium battery its great measuring what i am drawing out of the battery but just wondering if i can add a battery charger to the shunt aswell to measure what's going in? I was thinking of getting the victron 1p22 charger.
Yes you can add a solar charger and if you get a Victron one with bluetooth they will communicate and share certain data.
The shunt will then measure what is going in and out of the battery. If you have a load (ie lighting) and sun is shining then the current draw shown will be the balance of what thebbattery has to pick up. So will be lower than the actual load. But it will still calculate the balance of the battery correctly. Cable from the solar should go to the shunt not the battery terminal that way it flows thru and calculates correctly. You should be able to see this in my video.
Thanks for your insight. According to your explanation here how accurate does it work with lead acid batteries? I am ging to installiert a smart shunt and offload the data to a Software called 'Solaranzeige' on a Pi.
Hi, The shunt measures current so works on any battery type. They are particularly useful with Lithium batteries because the voltage difference between~90% and ~10% is very slight so can't be used to work out capacity accurately. However on LeadAcid batteries whilst the voltage drop is pretty much a straightline in relation to capacity it is significantly affected by load and charging. So on a lead acid battery you ideally need to turn everything off then wait a while before trying to estimate capacity based on voltage. So on that basis the shunt should give you a more accurate measurement of capacity on both battery types but for slightly different reasons. Hope that helps.
@@DTSquared Hm, I got a 24/230V Konverter and a Fridge connected. Both are discharging the battery on pretty constant amount, of depending whether the fridge is running or not. Like if the fridge is off, the converter will pull about 50Watt ~ 0.9A (only converter and Raspberry Pi) and when fridge is running its about 110W ~3,6A (all 3 together). So, fridge is usually running ~5Minutes and afterwards its about 20~30 Minutes rest.
If i wanted to purchase something similar to the bus bar you added to allow for a small eyelet size, what would you suggest?
I just purchased a strip of copper flat bar from amazon and cut and drilled it. If you don't want to go down that route, then the alternative would be to look at 12voltPlanet.co.uk . They have all sorts of busbars that you could probably modify. Or if you reach out to them they may be able to suggest something. As I recall they were quite helpful when I last used them.
can the shunt stop the discharge flow to prevent to great a battery discharge ?
The shunt is purely a monitoring tool it has no switching capacity. I believe that Victron do have a range of battery disconnect devices which will disconnected the battery when a voltage is reached to avoid over discharging the battery. But I haven't used those or researched them in any detail.
Hi Dave and thanks for the very interesting lecture on Shunts. I am in the process of putting solar panels on my camper roof and having the electrics (all Victron) installed by a specialized electrician representing Victron in my country. I recently spoke to another electrician working exclusively on campers but using a variety of brands of Li-batteries, shunts, MPPTs, and inverters. He told me that Victron is excellent for any component they provide, except for their Li-batteries, as apparently they stopped working for several of his clients in the past 2-3 years. He replaced them with Liontron Li-batteries and the systems he installed now do work. I would prefer to have all components from one brand and Victron, from what I have seen so far, seem an excellent choice. Do you have an opinion on the subject matter? Best regards from Switzerland, Silvano
Hi Silvano, glad you liked it and found it helpful. I don't have any experience of Victron batteries I'm afraid. As a general opinion pretty much any western supplier of batteries with a couple of notable exceptions such as Tesla will be importing and badging/branding batteries made by other manufacturers. So you will firstly be relying on their choice of components and suppliers which may change over time. Secondly on their quality control process to ensure they weed out the bad ones. And finally their support policies to cover any warranty. I'd be asking your electrician what happened when those batteries failed. If Victron replaced them with new ones with little fuss then I would personally take that as a good sign. Hope that helps some. Dave
@@DTSquared Thanks Dave. I will look into that. Best regards, Silvano
I have two 200 amph lithium batteries in parallel do I set up my shunt for 200 amph or 400 amph?
Assuming the shunt is wired up so that all loads a charge sources are going to the same neutral then it should be set as 400ah.
If you think about it each battery internally is multiple cells or battery's, so the principal is the same. Your two batteries are creating one big battery.
I'm not sure it's the solar charge controllers job to record data from other devices. Maybe this would be a better job for the cerbo gx? Maybe it already does this, I don't know.
The point I made in the video was that it was a missed opportunity. But in a way Victron made it the solar controller’s job by giving it the ability to store data and the connectivity to talk to their other devices. In a small-scale solar deployment such as a motorhome or caravan the most common Victron setup with multiple devices will be a solar controller and one or two other devices such as a shunt, invertor, battery and maybe a B2B. The shunt (and I think most/all of the other devices) have no data recording, the solar controller has data logging and is always on. So why not log other basic data? Even if the other devices had logging it would make sense to centralise data collection in one device to avoid having to merge data after downloading. As far as I can see apart from possibly memory capacity there’s no technical reason not to do so.
The cerbo GX is a cool device but overkill for most camper projects and would pretty much double the price of most Victron van setups.
Well I'll respectfully disagree. Just because it logs it's own data doesn't mean it should log the data of other devices. It's just not meant to do that. I've got a multiplus and cerbo here I need to install, no charge controller as of yet. I've already got a bmv-712 and I don't have any expectations that the multiplus log the data from the 712 however I hope this is a feature of the cerbo, as it's a computer. I know this data can be uploaded to the internet for logging by the cerbo but I'm not sure how much it keeps onboard, if any. The cerbo and touch 50 were around $600 so they're pricey but not terrible. A phone costs a lot more than that.
@@caseypries7559 That's fair enough, it's not really a philosophical point just that it's technically possible and would be advantageous to users. I'd certainly hope, like you do, that the cerbo provides some logging. With solar installations having a decent history of how they perform is really useful in assessing their effectiveness and where any future investment should be spent or changes made.
071622/1551h PST 🇺🇸 Thank you for the presentation. I do not know what type & model of BMS is used in your PV system. If a JBD (BMS) or other BT system is used, you get all the above and more info via BT on iOS/OS X and Android devices, thus avoiding VICTRON Shunt; undoubtedly being a great device. Your compatriot in Brisbane has all the info regarding different BMS’s. Enjoyed viewing your instructional video.
73s…
Hello david could you tel me what size stock cable i need to connect the shunt to battery thank you
Hi Scott, The size of cable isn't really related to the shunt but instead would be based on your maximum current draw and the distance between the shunt and the battery (i.e. length of cable) which should ideally be as short as possible. Obviously the shunts rating (500amps on the version I purchased) would also be the upper limit.
I purchased a pair of battery connector cables from KS Energy (the same place I purchased the shunt from). They are 25mm2 CSA (about 6mm conductor diameter) and according to the link below rated to 180amps.
I only used one and shortened it but mainly for neatness as I doubt the change of length from 300mm to 200mm would make a rating difference. So if you don't have crimping tools they can be used as is.
If you are just connecting "normal" 12v stuff then this should be sufficient but if you have higher current draw items such as inverters or motor movers then I'd recommend checking.
Here's a link to the ones I purchased (KS energy has been taken over by another company but the store link appears to still be up.) leisurepowerproducts.com/shop/ols/products/300mm-parallel-battery-to-battery-connector-lead-set-with-8mm-lugs
Hope that helps.
Dave
@DTSquared great thanks for that 👍 just one more question did you connect the motor move to the shunt system minus also thanks for your help
It appears there have still been no updates to the smartshunt, even with using the Cerbo GX that can hold what I thought this was for, how much you system was actually putting into the batteries in a day. I wanted this to compare the smartsolar 100/50 to the epever 8415 AN charge controller, as I’m more than a bit skeptical of claims that Victron’s product performs better. The failings of the smart shut have left me with having to trust each charge controllers tracking, and so far, the victron smart controller is not matching up well at more than an additional 1/3 of the cost, especially when you add in a cerbo gx which is required to get the same data epever provides with a $30 wifi dongle.
Some people have mentioned that there have been updates in regards to recording data but if there have been I haven't found them or they relate to the temporary monitoring when the app is open.
You should redo this with the new firmware that lets you see trends back weeks. Big upgrade.
Thanks for pointing that out. I shall check them out when we are away in a few days and look in to making a enhancements video.
So the shunt tells you how much you have used. Fine. But how do you ever know if you actually started at your battery's maximum? Did your charger quit after it hit 78%? Some other %? Do have to go to dead and then measure how much goes in? Then compare that to the rating on the battery?
The shunt considers the battery to be full once the specified charge voltage has been reached AND it has stopped charging (i.e. no current flowing in). Not purely that there is no charge going in since obviously that would happen every night when charging with solar. If a significant amount of time passes during which the battery is never fully charged then the shunt’s state of charge percentage will drift over time due to inaccuracies in the “in/out” measurements building up plus the natural discharge of the battery which it cannot measure. That's why it's recommended to ensure the battery gets fully charged every so often (I think the recommendation is once a month).
If your battery is lead acid type, measure the specific gravity of the electrolyte. That is the only sure way to know it is fully charged. Let the battery rest a few hours before making this measurement
Cables don’t “consume” current. Look up Kirchoff’s Current Law.
Thanks for the correction, "power" or "energy" would probably have been more accurate terminology.
Dont you need to explain negative distribution? If connections are made directly to the positive then the shunt wont measure any current draw!??
It's generally direct connections to the negative terminal which bypass the shunt and are therefore not measured. This is why the installation instructions recommend that the shunt is the final and sole connection to the negative terminal. So a device connected directly to the positive AND negative would then be on a separate circuit entirely and so not be measured. A device connected directly to the positive but returning to the negative via the shunt would not be any different to any other device since it's just forming part of the overall load.
I'm not familiar with the term "negative distribution" but if you have some links to an explanation then I'd be interested to read up on it.
To smart, To much information, You need to be a rocket scientist to understand it all 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
Thanks for the video. For the price ($300) the performance and features of the victron are just not there. I have since replaced the 712 smart for a $60 unit that I find does a far better job. Has a much better interface, and comes with a remote (wired) screen for inside the trailer as well as bluetooth with a great looking app. Look up: KG140F.
I did look at some of the Chinese un-branded shunts. But I wanted to stay in the Victron environment (which is why the lack of data passing between the shunt and the smart solar was a disappointment).
I'm disappointed in my Smart Shunt. I have 4 other Renogy battery monitors in service and they are a bit inaccurate (including the Victron) but reliable. The use of bluetooth assumes that you will be within its very limited range. The Victron will not transmit into my house from 15 linear feet away. The other 2 units have Renogy BT-1 and a BT-2 bluetooth on the MPPT controllers and they transmit nicely to my phone. But they are NOT battery monitors. As a temporary measure, I set up an extra $50 Pet Cam from Amazon to look at the Renogy display. Without all of the burdensome crap, I can now pull up my Renogy screen from anywhere in the world where I get an iPhone signal and check the system without the Cerbo GX and Pi device. I added a Renogy shunt in series with the Victron shunt. Neither of them read voltage as accurately as my Fluke meter. I don't have the Victron display but it looks like you need to scroll through with buttons to read it. Try doing that from 3000 miles away. The cheap Pet Cam has pan, tilt, zoom, 2 way microphone to listen for the 2 inverter fan settings. And the Renogy screen shows all I need. Here are the 2 shunts in series. The pet cam sits on the inverter and reads in day or night conditions. th-cam.com/video/5TIoLk4zJW8/w-d-xo.html
@@kimmer6 Well, if it works I guess. For me, setting up ANOTHER component to be able to read the one I want isn't an option. But I do like the idea of checking in on the trailer with a pan/tilt camera. (But can't deal with the power draw while on battery)