Nico Rosberg on the W07: it took my mechanics 6 hours to start the car. Keke Rosberg on the FW08: compared to the Williams guys. They just pulled my car off the trucks and fired it up. From Nico and Keke Rosberg interview with Martin Brundle in Monaco.
@@1ytcommenter I can never forget the scream of the Ferrari V12 not to mention the smell. Could always hear it and detect it even before it came into sight. I realise you can’t holt progress but they were amazing.
I worked on Locomotives in the Mid 1970's in the Pilbara, Western Australia. We had a loco idling on standby all the time. The moment it was needed in service, the next would be prepared, much the same as this. Over 90% of the wear they said was starting. So we'd heat the coolant and also the oil up to operating temperature, then pump up the oil pressure before it was started. It took about 24hrs if there was no rush to get it ready to fire.
Cold starting has always been the weakest point for any engines that correspond to 90% wear when starting. In this many farmers when they start their big tractors very often I see them revving up with "shots" the engines in order to warm the engine. In my modest opinion I find it very brutal on the engine. I know because I very help my girlfriend with her big tractor that is is "eating" oil from too many Cold starting when it was driven by her brother....
Interesting. I did a little bit of work on a much smaller diesel engine (somewhere around 1,000 hp or less) in an emergency power generating set at a wastewater treatment plant about 15 years ago. As I recall, it had a supplementary electrically-driven oil circulation pump and an electric oil heater to keep it warm enough to be ready for action. I can't remember exactly how this oil circuit integrated with the main one that used the pump mechanically-driven by the engine itself (probably just a short bypass around the mechanical pump, operating in parallel) or whether it stopped operating when the engine was running (perhaps based on oil temperature and/or pressure feedback) or just kept going regardless.
.. until you realized that the gap nowadays between the cars at the front and to the back is half than that. Still, the Mclaren and the Ferrari of those days are truly monsters compared to others on the grid.
@@3ormorecharactersmaybe5 actually no it's still very impressive. for most of f1s early history a good chunk of the teams that showed up to every race ended up being too slow to even enter qualifying.
Love this kind of content. So cool to get a peek behind the curtain, and honestly it’s cooler to learn about it on a period-piece V10 Minardi than even a 2022 car
Any era of F1 cars have its own charm be it the all conquering V10 Ferraris or V6 turbo Mercedes or something backmarkers like the Minardis,every era of F1 cars are beautiful in it’s own ways
When F1 was more open and much more friendly to independant teams. Today, there are no independant teams, the expensive and overly complicated turbo hybrid V6s have destroyed that competitive balance. Every team is either a manufacturer, a manufacturer's "junior team" or at least buy most of your parts of a manufacturer - independant teams have no chance to survive.
What's funny is that I was just talking with my GF who is from Quilmes and is obsessed with seeing references to the city (not just the beer logo, all kinds of references), and these references keep popping up in the most random places.
That's one of the easy things to forget is even a lower midfield or even backmarker formula1 car may be seconds off the pace from the lead teams but they are still one of the fastest cars in the world even still.
I remember Niki telling about how the director of the movie Rush described a scene he had in mind to him. Niki should jump in the car, fasten the seatbelt, turn the key to start it and drive away. Nikki told him, you are strapped in the car by assisstants and there's no key in an F1 car, you push a button. The director obviously had a lot to learn about those fairly simple racecars. It would have taken Niki 2 hours to explain to him how to start this one. lol
Even F1 car tech has improved but regardless of what era is always interesting and exciting how each cars are operated whether it’s a terrible car like those Minardis driven by Fernando Alonso in 2001 or Jos Verstappen during 2003 to the current technology advanced title winning Red Bull RB18 driven by Max Verstappen. Every era of F1 cars has its own charm whether it’s a front runningall conquering cars or backmarkers
Things are a bit different. Generationally, I think things have improved a bit. In about 1968, when I was a wee tyke, my father wrenched on a Formula Ford. Took all morning to get the car ready to start. I just remember wrenches everywhere and the mound of people wrapped around the engine. No such thing as a computer, just deft hands and a good ear. Dad took me up and down the paddock/pit in his lap once. Good times.
Thanks for the info, I knew there was far more to an F1 car than the average driver, but had NO idea it that much involved just to get it started. I love the old F1 cars mainly because of that v10 sound, it just isn't the same anymore since the KERS system was introduced.
If the software requires an old laptop for it to run on because the speed of the newer laptops cause problems, then the old software was written by a crap developer. Developers of games back in the 8088 days learned to not use that sort of timing loop when the 8086 started showing up in some PC clones and it was made especially noticeable with the PC-AT was released with the 80286 processor. Many games that used timing loops were basically unplayable on a 80286 based PC since it would run about 6 times faster.
Yeah, but you're talking about F1, where almost every critical component is replaced annually, not a computer game. So creating new programmes and buying new laptops every year or every other year is hardly a concern.
The code was written by some random guy. The only requirement was just run and period. A lot of enterprise software solutions are ported from older windows versions bc is cheaper than write an entire new code
I feel very privileged to be someone who has sat in, and worked on, an actual F1 race car, the A11 Arrows of Derek Warwick, and I’m pretty sure it holds the record at Goodwood now. Not my handiwork, but I helped with the engine and suspension while it was in Australia.
Having worked on the 1994 Tyrrell F1 car, I know the answer. The engine has to be brought up to temperature before starting because of the tolerances. It did not have the original engine but a detuned Judd engine which still produced over 700 HP from 3.5 liter normally aspirated engine. In F1 racing they also cool the fuel these days and circulated through the fuel system for several hours.
Great upload, and very interesting. I had no idea they were that complex to start back in the day...I was 38 in 98...To think how much the world has changed since then, is a bit staggering...They weren't great days, but; I believe they're better than these days...
Gentlemen, a short view back to the past. Thirty years ago, Niki Lauda told us ‘take a monkey, place him into the cockpit and he is able to drive the car.’ Thirty years later, Sebastian told us ‘I had to start my car like a computer, it’s very complicated.’ And Nico Rosberg said that during the race - I don’t remember what race - he pressed the wrong button on the wheel. Question for you both: is Formula One driving today too complicated with twenty and more buttons on the wheel, are you too much under effort, under pressure? What are your wishes for the future concerning the technical programme during the race? Less buttons, more? Or less and more communication with your engineers?
The driver should only worry about driving. Entire teams of people with far more specialized knowledge exist so the driver should only worry about driving.
They do the same thing on sprint cars with warming the coolant and oil up before pushing them off for engine heat. They'll usually let the engines idle to build heat for around 10-15 minutes and check everything over before hot laps.
These F1 engines especially these Naturally Aspirated V8 V10 V12 have such tight clearances in the reciprocating assembly and valve guides, it's a good idea the engineers heat up the oil and the coolant to pass through the long motor (from top to bottom) to allow for metal expansion closer to operating temperatures to minimise wear, because if they did start run them cold to warm up, they would have so many engines failing during the races it wouldn't be funny!
Warming up regular car engines would actually make them last a lot longer before needing to be rebuilt. Most engine wear comes from cold start ups. It's also an environmental plus because the emissions are less for a warmed up engine.
can someone please share some more details on how exactly would a fast laptop affect this whole process in any way? the way he explained it makes no sense to me... why would you ever want a slow laptop for something as time critical as F1 ....
Just imagine: This example is for a F1 car almost a quarter of a century old! One can imagine the startup of a modern F1 car is becoming similar to the launch of a space rocket.
I was nearby a Williams FW29 (Alex Wurz 2007 Canada chassis) today when it got started up, those two cars (other one is the Rosberg car) are owned by Rajamäki from Finland but are now equipped with Judd engines. Same start procedure as here in the video but damn it was fun to follow all of it
I've seen it in a few building management controls systems as well, over the last few years. The pain of using something that slow in 2022 cannot be overstated. I'm still a bit confused as to why a virtual machine can't be used? I heard him say that more powerful Pcs mess with the software, but wouldn't the VM take care of that?
It is because they did not hire good programmers. The interface timing is dependant upon the laptop speed, rather than being programmed to be independant of laptop speed. If this was a uni project, I would fail them.
Nicely done! Id never seen the Entirety of the Process before, thanks for setting this up and sharing. Great job. Glad to see a Minardi still in shape to run.
Never gave it much thought but the tolerances on those high rpm engines are so much tighter by design they would need the metals at a certain temp or certainly they would cause more damage. Really goes to show how much engineering goes into making the most horse power. And this is a relic the amount of money spent on not only f1 but also nascar and funny cars and anything built for pure speed is insane.
Usually most tolerances in race engines are looser rather than tighter due to the high RPM's they run at. Also, in our drag race engines the aluminum block, heads, and rods grow a lot with heat so that needs to be accounted for. Cold valve lash is set at around .008", that opens up to .024" at operating temps.
Can anyone explain why they can’t use a modern laptop for this? I know he said they need Windows 95 for the software but I’d imagine there is some software port available that would make this possible, might just take hiring a few developers at most. The part I’m mostly confused about is when he said you can’t use a modern laptop because it’s quicker than the car. Sure it probably can process information way faster than the car’s sensors can read and transmit it but what does this have to do with anything?
Think you answered yourself there in the end! If the computer processes the information too quickly for the old sensors, could result in it not working all together - it’s a two way method as the laptop isn’t just reading the sensors but the laptop controls the engine “settings” too, so if a command back to the engine to change some mapping too quickly then again you’ll have issues!
@@mattamys Couldn't they just modify the refresh rate then? Sounds like a very easy problem to fix. I'd say more than anything it's about them not wanting to change something when they have everything in working order.
@@cyan_oxy6734 I was thinking this too. Not that I'm an expert by any means but the computer "being too fast" seems more like an inconvenient software fix more than any serious issue. I understand where they're coming from if this is the case though. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. Clearly the computer and software served them well for this many years.
you'll have to rewrite (or at least refactor) the software to utilize current OS, frameworks, and instruction sets. I doubt it's a hardware limitation since faster hardware should be able to tackle it, but old old software relied on the clock cycle of the computer for timing, and I doubt it occurred to them to future proof the software by using absolute timings instead. Again, that's a rewrite of the code. You'll also maybe have to add some abstraction or buffering in between, or at worst some low volume adaptor for a very defunct standard. It's doable, but why spend hundreds and thousands of dollars to do that for an old car? Easier to just get an old laptop to run the original software. Same issue actually exists with industrial process equipment lol
I've worked in mission critical environments like oil pipelines, airports, telecomms and broadcasting, where the mains standby generators were heated and (if I remember correctly) the oil pressurized. I always assumed it was to facilitate rapid starting. Now I know better.
It makes sense that a close-tolerance engine could be easily damaged if cold. After all, the metal is all shrunken down (contracted) due to it being cool/cold. That is a recipe for seizing up.
Did this car actually race with that Roces Skates logo on it? I used to skate back in the day and to think an inline skate company was advertising on F1 cars is insane.
If I remember correctly, the Japanese Zero in WWII, needed to be preheated before flying. The oil used in the engines was so thick, it was more like grease when cold. They would start cold, but would sputter and not have much power. When needing to take off quickly and not sit and heat up for 30 minutes, they attached hoses and circulated preheated oil through the engines. This way they could take off with only a minute preparation, instead of 30 minutes. This was especially useful on aircraft carriers and land airstrips when they needed to take off quickly to defend.
Ive always read that engines before the v6 era didnt survive a race weekend. In the early turbo era or the 80s when the cars made 1300 hp or more in quali they would be rebuilt after quali. So they literally couldnt survive longer than the couple of laps around the track that they did one day. These days because of wanting to be reliable the regulations require each team to use no more than 3 engines for the whole season, no rebuilds or you get a penalty.
Is aero the only thing that affects times between all f1 cars. Like are they all the same engine bhp? Or do red bull ferrari and Mercedes have higher bhp?
While different manufacturers definitely have varying amounts of BHP, a large factor is the aero of each car. Aero setups can alter lap time by a couple of seconds
@@nickowen7406 damn thats a lot, i thought mercedes supply williams, mclaren and aston martin, dont they all use the exact same engine, or do mercedes tune down the opponents engine as they are the supplier
those toughbook laptops are fucking amazing, I used to install internet for people and a few times when i was annoyed on rooftops id literally kick it off the roof and it always still worked after smacking the concrete below
Not mentioned was pre-warming the tires.... it's not part of starting engine, but it's done now. Very common sight to see heater blankets over tires when car is in the pits or garage.
It's been done since the early 80s, and it's being phased out (there are already temp and time restrictions, which will continue to tighten until a blanket ban). Doubt anybody running the car outside a race weekend/proper test day would bother tho.
There’s a charm about these 90s era f1 cars that not many understands of. As someone who only got into f1 in 2002 as a 9 year old kid,I do have a genuine sense of interest in these 90s era cars
What surprised me the most was the Windows 95 thing. So basically in 20 years time, when there aren't any more old laptops around and working, you can't practically start that race car? Even if Win95 was running on a modern laptop he said it wouldn't work. Seeing how critically the laptop seems to be to starting procedure it's kind of sad. I really enjoyed the detailed explanations, though!
Considering it's a late 90s computer they probably wrote the software around the old PCI bus clock. The interface hardware for the car's onboard computer system might also rely on the same clock. In theory they could use basically any machine that has the proper hardware interface for the car's connector. Software side they could run windows 95 as a virtual machine or something of that manner to get the car's software to play nice.
@@jeffqray I really don't mean to be rude at all.... But you sound exactly like my buddy with schizophrenia when he doesn't take his meds. Like I saw your other comment on this video about space and sure, I can somewhat understand why people don't believe we went there... But why in the world would someone fake a video about a car starting? Do you believe that F1 cars simply just don't exist or something? Because if so, you know you can just buy a ticket and go see them in person, right? Shit if you paid enough money I'm sure you could stand in the pit room and watch them start it for a couple hours too. Again, I'm really no trying to be rude or anything I just seriously don't understand why you would think someone would fake a video of a car starting. Just doesn't make sense
Couldn't avoid noticing the Quilmes logo at the sides of the rear spoiler. Quilmes is a brewery from Argentina "where I'm from". It's crazy I've never noticed something like that before.
Minardi! The team that gave Alonso a seat and told him to just try to beat his teammate. Well, he did ... By about 3 seconds a lap😂. Suddenly they were actually fighting for position with other backmarkers
crazy that you can’t get a computer that’s too fast otherwise you start getting the information faster than you should. it makes sense but it’s crazy to think about.
Considering Shumi won near enough 50% of the championships in that era I think it's a bit of rose tinted glasses. Yes it sounded great no doubt about that... but its effects on racing are negligible
Even tho it is sad but think about it being able to race in f1 for 2 decades with such a short supply of cash is really an achievement which not even teams that has big budget like Toyota or Jaguar were able to do. Able to open the door for drivers like Fernando Alonso or Mark Webber to have long F1 career with Alonso being a two time world champion. They even open the door for other talents like Justin Wilson who had success in Indy Car which itself shows how much Minardi has contributed to f1 and motorsports in general. Besides their spiritual successor has got two wins and when Seb won in Monza 2008 many of these mechanics have been here since their Minardi days. Imagine how that day felt like for them given they wouldn’t even dare to dream of it
This is why the earlier F1 cars are more in demand for second hand sales, ones up til the early 1990s. They're simply easier to run on a private demo or track day with a smaller crew. Once you get to mid 1990s and after they're way too complex to run without 3-4 very knowledgeable people setting everything up. Setting up this Minardi takes some work, but you can bet some systems on the 1998 Mclaren and Ferrari are even more sophisticated and complex to check and run. The Mclaren had a second brake pedal and separate rear brake steer system system....
i used to work in an office which backed onto and F1 constructors site on a race week they would bring the cars into the carpark and fire them up after the final rebuild nobody could work for half an hour because of the noise and vibration
My dad's 1974 plymouth station wagon almost required this much attention, but it was much slower and we did it without sponsors.
That was funny as hell!
And first dates are awkward in both.
it required way less attention, stupid easy and simple
You can't put too much water in a nuclear reactor
LOL
Windows '95.... its back...no.... it never left....
TRUE
GENTLEMEN, A SHORT VIEW BACK TO THE PAST
@@RECHARGED77 epic !
Plus a serial port to communicate from the laptop to the car.
The Roces In-line Skates got me.
Nico Rosberg on the W07: it took my mechanics 6 hours to start the car.
Keke Rosberg on the FW08: compared to the Williams guys. They just pulled my car off the trucks and fired it up.
From Nico and Keke Rosberg interview with Martin Brundle in Monaco.
Is that Nico Rosberg that Monaco based TH-camr who beat Lewis Hamilton in equal machinery?
@@KitKitChanIsaac That guy who makes a lap of a track 10x longer by adding explanations?
@@Klassik_KT Yes
I mean, the old car did have a much simpler Cosworth DFV.
also older f1 cars only needed engines to last a race weekend so they didnt really care
I absolutely love the late nineties era F1 cars, especially the noise.
Thank you.
V10 sounds the best. only ferraris v12 were still a bit better sounding. :D
@@1ytcommenter I can never forget the scream of the Ferrari V12 not to mention the smell. Could always hear it and detect it even before it came into sight. I realise you can’t holt progress but they were amazing.
@Frank Vera eNviRonMeNtaL rEasOns
@Frank Vera Because "progress" :-/
@@1ytcommenter McLaren Honda V12 Ayrton Senna 🇧🇷😈
I worked on Locomotives in the Mid 1970's in the Pilbara, Western Australia. We had a loco idling on standby all the time. The moment it was needed in service, the next would be prepared, much the same as this. Over 90% of the wear they said was starting. So we'd heat the coolant and also the oil up to operating temperature, then pump up the oil pressure before it was started. It took about 24hrs if there was no rush to get it ready to fire.
Cold starting has always been the weakest point for any engines that correspond to 90% wear when starting. In this many farmers when they start their big tractors very often I see them revving up with "shots" the engines in order to warm the engine. In my modest opinion I find it very brutal on the engine. I know because I very help my girlfriend with her big tractor that is is "eating" oil from too many Cold starting when it was driven by her brother....
@@BloopTube yes, I agree with you fully 👍👍
@@BloopTube less cycling of anything is usually better
Interesting. I did a little bit of work on a much smaller diesel engine (somewhere around 1,000 hp or less) in an emergency power generating set at a wastewater treatment plant about 15 years ago. As I recall, it had a supplementary electrically-driven oil circulation pump and an electric oil heater to keep it warm enough to be ready for action. I can't remember exactly how this oil circuit integrated with the main one that used the pump mechanically-driven by the engine itself (probably just a short bypass around the mechanical pump, operating in parallel) or whether it stopped operating when the engine was running (perhaps based on oil temperature and/or pressure feedback) or just kept going regardless.
Dude that's crazy
3 seconds behind McLaren in 1998 isn't bad considering the MP4/17 was capable of lapping the entire field on its best day.
MP4/13*
.. until you realized that the gap nowadays between the cars at the front and to the back is half than that.
Still, the Mclaren and the Ferrari of those days are truly monsters compared to others on the grid.
@@3ormorecharactersmaybe5 actually no it's still very impressive. for most of f1s early history a good chunk of the teams that showed up to every race ended up being too slow to even enter qualifying.
with those slick pileri tires it may acyually be faster than the mclaren 🤡
3 seconds is an eternity in racing.
Love this kind of content. So cool to get a peek behind the curtain, and honestly it’s cooler to learn about it on a period-piece V10 Minardi than even a 2022 car
But so incredibly complicated unless of course, you’re an F1 engineer! But beautifully complex!
So amazing..... Just insane
Agreed older cars were amazing
Any era of F1 cars have its own charm be it the all conquering V10 Ferraris or V6 turbo Mercedes or something backmarkers like the Minardis,every era of F1 cars are beautiful in it’s own ways
When F1 was more open and much more friendly to independant teams. Today, there are no independant teams, the expensive and overly complicated turbo hybrid V6s have destroyed that competitive balance. Every team is either a manufacturer, a manufacturer's "junior team" or at least buy most of your parts of a manufacturer - independant teams have no chance to survive.
Six minutes of how to start a f1 car up for dummies, well explained & brilliant information
Thankyou
Oh & what a sound those v10s ❤
"Quilmes" on the wing is an argentinian beer, this car was driven by Esteban Tuero from Argentina.
Vine a buscar ese dato!!!
Y la guita que habrá puesto Quilmes por el pedacito de propaganda en el alerón"!!
What's funny is that I was just talking with my GF who is from Quilmes and is obsessed with seeing references to the city (not just the beer logo, all kinds of references), and these references keep popping up in the most random places.
It's a 1999 Minardi, the Quilmes ad it was because of Gaston Mazzacane that was the test driver
Boca Juniors jersey sponsor too!!! I wish F1 would return to Argentina...
That's one of the easy things to forget is even a lower midfield or even backmarker formula1 car may be seconds off the pace from the lead teams but they are still one of the fastest cars in the world even still.
Once again killing it with the content. Easily the best F1 videos
I've never felt like a 5 minute video went on for so long. Had no idea about any of this just to start the cars sheesh, mad props
I remember Niki telling about how the director of the movie Rush described a scene he had in mind to him. Niki should jump in the car, fasten the seatbelt, turn the key to start it and drive away. Nikki told him, you are strapped in the car by assisstants and there's no key in an F1 car, you push a button. The director obviously had a lot to learn about those fairly simple racecars. It would have taken Niki 2 hours to explain to him how to start this one. lol
Late 90's Indy car startup was similar. Not nearly as complicated. But all temps and pressures had to be externally manipulated before cranking it up.
I miss teams like Minardi, Arrows, Tyrell...good old times.
Tyrrell became Mercedes, Minardi became Alpha Tauri, and Arrows...got screwed by a Nigerian prince!
Slow teams still exist. Pretty much every one of them except RB, Ferrari and Merc.
You mean underdog teams run by passionate ppl but didn't have the big team budget?
@@ahmadfirdaus4183 Exactly what I mean :)
@@ahmadfirdaus4183 privateers
Always loved that livery... maybe even more so now, since it reminds me of the season where I started watching F1 for real.
Same. Crazy to think that was just a couple years after Senna died. Schumacher was the only F1 god I knew at the time. Still, I was a Mika fan.
@@WalkerKlondyke Same. Or at least everyone was talking about this Schumacher, but I was a Mclaren fan. Even had the MP4-13 as a model car 😍
It's got Quilmes on it, so yeah.
I've waited for this video for nearly 4 months! And you didn't disappoint.
Even F1 car tech has improved but regardless of what era is always interesting and exciting how each cars are operated whether it’s a terrible car like those Minardis driven by Fernando Alonso in 2001 or Jos Verstappen during 2003 to the current technology advanced title winning Red Bull RB18 driven by Max Verstappen. Every era of F1 cars has its own charm whether it’s a front runningall conquering cars or backmarkers
Things are a bit different. Generationally, I think things have improved a bit. In about 1968, when I was a wee tyke, my father wrenched on a Formula Ford. Took all morning to get the car ready to start. I just remember wrenches everywhere and the mound of people wrapped around the engine. No such thing as a computer, just deft hands and a good ear. Dad took me up and down the paddock/pit in his lap once. Good times.
Now that's an anti-theft system !!
Sick video, thanks for sharing !!
When you need to go to work, you need a week long vacation.
Thanks for the info, I knew there was far more to an F1 car than the average driver, but had NO idea it that much involved just to get it started. I love the old F1 cars mainly because of that v10 sound, it just isn't the same anymore since the KERS system was introduced.
" KERS " ?
@@bill3641 Kinetic Energy Recovery System. It's too involved for my brain to go into, but you can go online & read about it.
If the software requires an old laptop for it to run on because the speed of the newer laptops cause problems, then the old software was written by a crap developer. Developers of games back in the 8088 days learned to not use that sort of timing loop when the 8086 started showing up in some PC clones and it was made especially noticeable with the PC-AT was released with the 80286 processor. Many games that used timing loops were basically unplayable on a 80286 based PC since it would run about 6 times faster.
Yeah, but you're talking about F1, where almost every critical component is replaced annually, not a computer game. So creating new programmes and buying new laptops every year or every other year is hardly a concern.
The code was written by some random guy. The only requirement was just run and period.
A lot of enterprise software solutions are ported from older windows versions bc is cheaper than write an entire new code
YEAH YOU TELL THEM!!!!
Stupid F1 vehicles… tired of them not knowing what they’re doing
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
maybe tell that directly to them, don't comment here, they won't listen to you.
No one knows wtf you’re talking about
I feel very privileged to be someone who has sat in, and worked on, an actual F1 race car, the A11 Arrows of Derek Warwick, and I’m pretty sure it holds the record at Goodwood now. Not my handiwork, but I helped with the engine and suspension while it was in Australia.
I loved Minardi. They where always such the underdog but they worked so very hard for every Euro they had.
the 90s/00s cars looked so damn good
The reason these cars are so expensive isn't because of the car itself... it's because you're also buying the three dudes who know how to start it.
Only came across your channel about an hour ago and it’s already my favourite one 😆
Quality content as always Matt 👍
Having worked on the 1994 Tyrrell F1 car, I know the answer. The engine has to be brought up to temperature before starting because of the tolerances. It did not have the original engine but a detuned Judd engine which still produced over 700 HP from 3.5 liter normally aspirated engine. In F1 racing they also cool the fuel these days and circulated through the fuel system for several hours.
Great upload, and very interesting. I had no idea they were that complex to start back in the day...I was 38 in 98...To think how much the world has changed since then, is a bit staggering...They weren't great days, but; I believe they're better than these days...
The 80's, 90's and early 2000's were the best times to be alive in. After WWII, everyone just wanted to live life in piece after being through hell.
Gentlemen, a short view back to the past. Thirty years ago, Niki Lauda told us ‘take a monkey, place him into the cockpit and he is able to drive the car.’ Thirty years later, Sebastian told us ‘I had to start my car like a computer, it’s very complicated.’ And Nico Rosberg said that during the race - I don’t remember what race - he pressed the wrong button on the wheel. Question for you both: is Formula One driving today too complicated with twenty and more buttons on the wheel, are you too much under effort, under pressure? What are your wishes for the future concerning the technical programme during the race? Less buttons, more? Or less and more communication with your engineers?
Sorry, could you repeat the question?
Good question.
They'll do whatever they need to do to get the fastest lap times, that's the biggest factor.
The driver should only worry about driving. Entire teams of people with far more specialized knowledge exist so the driver should only worry about driving.
Sebastian Vettel's remark doesn't make sense at all. Starting a computer is even less complicated than starting a regular car.
They do the same thing on sprint cars with warming the coolant and oil up before pushing them off for engine heat. They'll usually let the engines idle to build heat for around 10-15 minutes and check everything over before hot laps.
These F1 engines especially these Naturally Aspirated V8 V10 V12 have such tight clearances in the reciprocating assembly and valve guides, it's a good idea the engineers heat up the oil and the coolant to pass through the long motor (from top to bottom) to allow for metal expansion closer to operating temperatures to minimise wear, because if they did start run them cold to warm up, they would have so many engines failing during the races it wouldn't be funny!
Warming up regular car engines would actually make them last a lot longer before needing to be rebuilt. Most engine wear comes from cold start ups. It's also an environmental plus because the emissions are less for a warmed up engine.
can someone please share some more details on how exactly would a fast laptop affect this whole process in any way? the way he explained it makes no sense to me... why would you ever want a slow laptop for something as time critical as F1 ....
A lot of this stuff has actually been simplified , on newer cars, which is great. It means less prep time is needed.
Something I’ve never thought about but TH-cam algorithms decided it was time for me learn. That’s a long process to start up the car. Thank you!
I miss this era of F1 more than I can describe with words....
Looks like the one that was at brands hatch for the festival italia an August, that thing sounded awesome
Just imagine: This example is for a F1 car almost a quarter of a century old!
One can imagine the startup of a modern F1 car is becoming similar to the launch of a space rocket.
I was nearby a Williams FW29 (Alex Wurz 2007 Canada chassis) today when it got started up, those two cars (other one is the Rosberg car) are owned by Rajamäki from Finland but are now equipped with Judd engines. Same start procedure as here in the video but damn it was fun to follow all of it
I've seen it in a few building management controls systems as well, over the last few years.
The pain of using something that slow in 2022 cannot be overstated.
I'm still a bit confused as to why a virtual machine can't be used? I heard him say that more powerful Pcs mess with the software, but wouldn't the VM take care of that?
It is because they did not hire good programmers. The interface timing is dependant upon the laptop speed, rather than being programmed to be independant of laptop speed. If this was a uni project, I would fail them.
@@vladsnape6408that is genuinely shocking, i wish more was known about the software side of f1
Nicely done! Id never seen the Entirety of the Process before, thanks for setting this up and sharing. Great job. Glad to see a Minardi still in shape to run.
Quilmes & Esteban Tuero, old times of Argentina at the 90's
Increible todo
Never gave it much thought but the tolerances on those high rpm engines are so much tighter by design they would need the metals at a certain temp or certainly they would cause more damage. Really goes to show how much engineering goes into making the most horse power. And this is a relic the amount of money spent on not only f1 but also nascar and funny cars and anything built for pure speed is insane.
Usually most tolerances in race engines are looser rather than tighter due to the high RPM's they run at. Also, in our drag race engines the aluminum block, heads, and rods grow a lot with heat so that needs to be accounted for. Cold valve lash is set at around .008", that opens up to .024" at operating temps.
Can anyone explain why they can’t use a modern laptop for this? I know he said they need Windows 95 for the software but I’d imagine there is some software port available that would make this possible, might just take hiring a few developers at most. The part I’m mostly confused about is when he said you can’t use a modern laptop because it’s quicker than the car. Sure it probably can process information way faster than the car’s sensors can read and transmit it but what does this have to do with anything?
Think you answered yourself there in the end! If the computer processes the information too quickly for the old sensors, could result in it not working all together - it’s a two way method as the laptop isn’t just reading the sensors but the laptop controls the engine “settings” too, so if a command back to the engine to change some mapping too quickly then again you’ll have issues!
@@mattamys Couldn't they just modify the refresh rate then? Sounds like a very easy problem to fix.
I'd say more than anything it's about them not wanting to change something when they have everything in working order.
@@cyan_oxy6734 I was thinking this too. Not that I'm an expert by any means but the computer "being too fast" seems more like an inconvenient software fix more than any serious issue. I understand where they're coming from if this is the case though. Don't fix it if it ain't broke. Clearly the computer and software served them well for this many years.
Exactly plus this video was to show how it would’ve been done back in 1998, so yes it could in theory be done that’s not what we’re demonstrating!
you'll have to rewrite (or at least refactor) the software to utilize current OS, frameworks, and instruction sets. I doubt it's a hardware limitation since faster hardware should be able to tackle it, but old old software relied on the clock cycle of the computer for timing, and I doubt it occurred to them to future proof the software by using absolute timings instead. Again, that's a rewrite of the code. You'll also maybe have to add some abstraction or buffering in between, or at worst some low volume adaptor for a very defunct standard. It's doable, but why spend hundreds and thousands of dollars to do that for an old car? Easier to just get an old laptop to run the original software. Same issue actually exists with industrial process equipment lol
So doesn't necessarily take long to START the car, but to go through a bunch of system ops checks and have it run optimally. Very cool.
I miss the V10 era so much 😔
I've worked in mission critical environments like oil pipelines, airports, telecomms and broadcasting, where the mains standby generators were heated and (if I remember correctly) the oil pressurized. I always assumed it was to facilitate rapid starting. Now I know better.
That was really interesting and the sound of a screaming V10 was always amazing!!!!
The old F1 cars sounded SO good!
It makes sense that a close-tolerance engine could be easily damaged if cold. After all, the metal is all shrunken down (contracted) due to it being cool/cold. That is a recipe for seizing up.
Did this car actually race with that Roces Skates logo on it? I used to skate back in the day and to think an inline skate company was advertising on F1 cars is insane.
Roces were on Minardi. Greetings from another skater.
If I remember correctly, the Japanese Zero in WWII, needed to be preheated before flying. The oil used in the engines was so thick, it was more like grease when cold. They would start cold, but would sputter and not have much power. When needing to take off quickly and not sit and heat up for 30 minutes, they attached hoses and circulated preheated oil through the engines. This way they could take off with only a minute preparation, instead of 30 minutes. This was especially useful on aircraft carriers and land airstrips when they needed to take off quickly to defend.
Wonder how much mileage can one engine run without a replacement.
Ive always read that engines before the v6 era didnt survive a race weekend. In the early turbo era or the 80s when the cars made 1300 hp or more in quali they would be rebuilt after quali. So they literally couldnt survive longer than the couple of laps around the track that they did one day.
These days because of wanting to be reliable the regulations require each team to use no more than 3 engines for the whole season, no rebuilds or you get a penalty.
That starter looks very similar to the one I used in karts (Yamaha 100S with clutch). It was a Toyota Camry starter motor with a battery.
Totally interesting stuff. Fascinating to this sort of thing being done. Love it.
The size and sound of those cars. Phenomenal
Is aero the only thing that affects times between all f1 cars. Like are they all the same engine bhp? Or do red bull ferrari and Mercedes have higher bhp?
Bhp, weight and setup also effects the times
While different manufacturers definitely have varying amounts of BHP, a large factor is the aero of each car. Aero setups can alter lap time by a couple of seconds
@@nickowen7406 but im sure engines won't differ by hundres of bhp, probs 5 10 bhp?
@@MrOptimisticc while we don't have exact numbers it's probably closer to 50 to 60hp
@@nickowen7406 damn thats a lot, i thought mercedes supply williams, mclaren and aston martin, dont they all use the exact same engine, or do mercedes tune down the opponents engine as they are the supplier
Your ice cream would melt before you could get it home from the grocery store.
When that laptop dies, that car is history
those toughbook laptops are fucking amazing, I used to install internet for people and a few times when i was annoyed on rooftops id literally kick it off the roof and it always still worked after smacking the concrete below
Fun fact: That is the reason F1 cars are so fast. To make up for all that time turning it on
Not mentioned was pre-warming the tires.... it's not part of starting engine, but it's done now. Very common sight to see heater blankets over tires when car is in the pits or garage.
It's been done since the early 80s, and it's being phased out (there are already temp and time restrictions, which will continue to tighten until a blanket ban). Doubt anybody running the car outside a race weekend/proper test day would bother tho.
@@docontra4921 Thanks for input.
I love those classic cars 😃
This is good advice, if you had to make a quick getaway and had a formula 1 car or a 1965 VW beetle to choose from I know now to choose the VW
I always prefered the older 90s cars over the new cars. Something about older racing technology is fascinating.
There’s a charm about these 90s era f1 cars that not many understands of. As someone who only got into f1 in 2002 as a 9 year old kid,I do have a genuine sense of interest in these 90s era cars
The sound it makes it worth it
What surprised me the most was the Windows 95 thing. So basically in 20 years time, when there aren't any more old laptops around and working, you can't practically start that race car? Even if Win95 was running on a modern laptop he said it wouldn't work. Seeing how critically the laptop seems to be to starting procedure it's kind of sad. I really enjoyed the detailed explanations, though!
It could be done with software emulation. It would take some tinkering, but it's possible.
Considering it's a late 90s computer they probably wrote the software around the old PCI bus clock. The interface hardware for the car's onboard computer system might also rely on the same clock.
In theory they could use basically any machine that has the proper hardware interface for the car's connector. Software side they could run windows 95 as a virtual machine or something of that manner to get the car's software to play nice.
@@jeffqray Uh okay crazy person. I've seen people deny a lot of things but denying that cars worked in the 90s is amazing.
@@jeffqray I really don't mean to be rude at all.... But you sound exactly like my buddy with schizophrenia when he doesn't take his meds. Like I saw your other comment on this video about space and sure, I can somewhat understand why people don't believe we went there... But why in the world would someone fake a video about a car starting? Do you believe that F1 cars simply just don't exist or something? Because if so, you know you can just buy a ticket and go see them in person, right? Shit if you paid enough money I'm sure you could stand in the pit room and watch them start it for a couple hours too.
Again, I'm really no trying to be rude or anything I just seriously don't understand why you would think someone would fake a video of a car starting. Just doesn't make sense
@@NotMe-ej9yz Take your meds
Couldn't avoid noticing the Quilmes logo at the sides of the rear spoiler.
Quilmes is a brewery from Argentina "where I'm from". It's crazy I've never noticed something like that before.
Minardi! The team that gave Alonso a seat and told him to just try to beat his teammate. Well, he did ... By about 3 seconds a lap😂. Suddenly they were actually fighting for position with other backmarkers
I never tire of the sound from that era of f1
that v10 sound tho
See boss, this is why i am all ways late for work. I nned time to start up my f1 daily driver...
Why I don’t use a Formula 1 car as my daily driver.
TBF they're also a bit annoying to get out of with three grocery bags....
crazy that you can’t get a computer that’s too fast otherwise you start getting the information faster than you should. it makes sense but it’s crazy to think about.
Can we all just take a moment to recognize what a great looking car this is... gorgeous!
Awe.... That V10 sound! 🥰
beautiful video, V10 era is best F1
Considering Shumi won near enough 50% of the championships in that era I think it's a bit of rose tinted glasses. Yes it sounded great no doubt about that... but its effects on racing are negligible
@FreeBirb each to their own I guess. It's v10>v6(80s turbos)>v12
I don't know why but there's something about 90's F1 cars looks that gets me every time 😍❤️🔥🔝 so beautiful
I miss the sound of those cars. Pure combustion symphony.
A really well put together segment on what it takes to start up a F1 V10
I’m personally offended that a 1998 car is referred to as a classic.
i think it’s considered a classic f1 car, not a classic car
love the sound of those old v10's
Eh, they should just do a K24 swap. Then you could just drive it whenever and tell the laptop dorks to friggoff.
This is worse than my Ford Transit Custom Texas Edition - but also amazing!
The sound of F1 cars back then was worth the price of the ticket alone.
Not sure why but this is one of the nicest F1 cars I've ever seen!
I feel so sad that Minardi was a backmarker
At least their spiritual successor has two wins to its name.
@@SmallBlogV8 True
@@SmallBlogV8 Next year "Minardi" will have the shortest driver lineup on the grid.
Even tho it is sad but think about it being able to race in f1 for 2 decades with such a short supply of cash is really an achievement which not even teams that has big budget like Toyota or Jaguar were able to do. Able to open the door for drivers like Fernando Alonso or Mark Webber to have long F1 career with Alonso being a two time world champion. They even open the door for other talents like Justin Wilson who had success in Indy Car which itself shows how much Minardi has contributed to f1 and motorsports in general. Besides their spiritual successor has got two wins and when Seb won in Monza 2008 many of these mechanics have been here since their Minardi days. Imagine how that day felt like for them given they wouldn’t even dare to dream of it
Very straightforward really! 😂🤣
old times: Windows 95
now: RGB keyboards
Win95 and cold cathode lighting.
Awesome!
& that noise!…. Man I loved those engines!
Ah, the venerable CF-19. Used one those for work for about 8 years. Got replaced with a Dell. Wish I still had the CF-19 honestly.
Great - thank you - to hear the sound of a proper F1 car!!
It's involved so many crucial preparations to get a F1 Racer running >>> Respect & Salute to the behind the scene Teams of a F1 Racing Team! 🌷🌿🌍💖🕊
Really informative video. Best I've seen on race engineering.
The driver : “Are we ready” ?
The Crew : “Yup, we’re getting ready to start it up”.
The driver : “I’m going back to bed, I’ll be in the Bus”.
My brothers run an old Australian touring car and a highly strung turboed hillclimb both arent jump in and crank the starter.
3:40 Ducati's desmodromic valve system solves the high rev problem mechanically, instead of pneumatically.
This is why the earlier F1 cars are more in demand for second hand sales, ones up til the early 1990s. They're simply easier to run on a private demo or track day with a smaller crew. Once you get to mid 1990s and after they're way too complex to run without 3-4 very knowledgeable people setting everything up. Setting up this Minardi takes some work, but you can bet some systems on the 1998 Mclaren and Ferrari are even more sophisticated and complex to check and run. The Mclaren had a second brake pedal and separate rear brake steer system system....
i used to work in an office which backed onto and F1 constructors site
on a race week they would bring the cars into the carpark and fire them up after the final rebuild
nobody could work for half an hour because of the noise and vibration