One thing that might explain Sauron and Saruman coming from Aule's stable so to speak is that, aside from Melkor himself, Aule is the only one of the Valar known to have _significantly_ erred according to what he was supposed to have done. Namely, he made the Dwarves in secret, knowing full well the plans of Eru in terms of the Firstborn (the Elves) and Men that followed. Of course, Eru discovered this and may not have been pleased initially, hence Aule offered to destroy the Dwarves before Eru forgave him and gave them true life, but it perhaps hints to something in Tolkien's writing about the pridefulness that comes from crafting things of power. Which brings us naturally to Sauron, as perhaps the second (or third, depending on where you put Feanor) most powerful crafter of things after Aule, and to a lesser degree Saruman. The latter was also a forger of magical rings, although far less powerful than the ones Sauron and Celebrimbor forged. Perhaps the urge to craft is but one step away from the desire to control and dominate...as opposed to I imagine the more free and libertarian vibe of someone like Yavanna.
Such a great breakdown and analysis, overall. Others have said something similar but you’ve added even more detail and it seems you’re on to something! Thank you !
I know that people have been saying it for so long that it just seems to be a saying, but it’s not an actual thing that Yavannah created the two trees. The two trees came about as a byproduct of the gathering of the Valar and her, holding all the plants and animals in her mind as she chanted and sang, and people also forget that if it weren’t for Nienna’s tears watering the moss, the two trees of Valinor would not have come about. I just wanted to throw that out there because everybody gets that wrong and forgets about Nieena presence there . Cheers and have a great day folks.
Excellent video overall, thank you! Only a couple of points to clarify: - 1. _Technically_ all the Valar set foot on (early) Middle Earth, as their first home was on the Isle of Almaren in the Great Lake in the first version of Middle Earth (during the time of the Lamps) before it was remade. It was only after this was destroyed by Melkor that the Valar moved to Valinor on Aman. 2. Melkor (meaning "the Mighty One" or perhaps more accurately "He Who Arises in Might") never to my knowledge called _himself_ "Morgoth". "Morgoth" was a name given to him by Fëanor when Melkor destroyed the Trees of Valinaor, killed his father and took the Silmarils, meaning "Dark Enemy" or "Black Foe" and was was essentially a curse. He was also known as Morgoth Bauglir, which added the word for Tyrant/Oppressor onto an already foul name.
Thank you so much for the kind words and critiques! I am torn over Almaren = Middle Earth. Imo, as that was an entirely different piece of land before being reshaped, they are different places entirely. But I do get the other side as well. Either way, I love the discussion! Thank you
I like to think that the reason why the Dwarves weren't nearly as corrupted by the Rings of Power as Men in the Second Age was due to the fact that they were made to be stubborn, resistant, and strong willed by Aule, Sauron's former master. A subtle showing of Aule's superiority in craft.
Only the forefathers of the dwarves were by Aulë’s hands. But this is still very important and is a reason dwarves we’re even more resilient to evil even though they naturally were impervious to evil.
This is a really good video but you got one thing profoundly wrong. Mandos had no part in gandalf returning to life. That was completely Eru Illuvatars doing.
Thank you for the kind words and for the critique! This is a great call out and you are absolutely correct. Simply put, I assumed and got this one wrong.
An even deeper look into how influential Nienna is to the world and to Gandalf along with the third remaking of the world by GirlNextGondor ‘s recent deep dive into Nienna.
Varda created the stars after the shaping of Arda, not before. They were created after the toppling of Illuin and Ormal to give some light for the awakening of the elves
The Valars initially lived on the island of Almaren in the center of the world, after the destruction and loss of symmetry of the world they went to the western continent of Aman where they founded Valinor. Thus, all the Valars walked in Middle Earth
hmmmm.... Almaren does not equal Middle-Earth... Yes it was their first "Home" but it was distinctly an island, not attached to Middle-Earth, right? Makes it no different than Aman/Valinor.
You have me intrigued! I'm trying to look a little harder into it, but wouldn't it be the same as when the Valar did go from Valinor to Middle-Earth to battle Morgoth? Ulmo can literally be water, so maybe they used their powers or the Eagles? I love the discussion though! keep it coming
I think I have to agree with @michaelchan9698 here. I like where your thoughts are, because pride/envy/greed is central to Tolkien's dwarves, but Aule actually saw the faults of his ways and sought forgiveness. Opposite of Saruman and Sauron ways... Either way, I LOVE the discussion.
Love not overwell the products of thy hands, hence a factor in Saruman and Sauron's descent... Being a crafter was a serious point of temptation for Tolkien, there was a very fine line to walk in sub-creating righteously
Thank you @makkaru112, I may be interested in joining, but need to temper any expectations. This journey is very new to me(content creation) and the editing is as daunting as the research. Finding that mix of scholar vs casual is what we aim for here. I don't want to get too lost in the sauce. I look forward to your comments in the future!
I promise it's very much on the list. This video took a bit to do due to the amount of Valar here... But Tom is very high up there! I love Tom and everything he may or may not be...
@@FablesoftheFellowship sauron was so obsessed with ordering and thought that only he could do it and well became power hungry and was convinced by Melkor to join him in his conquest of Arda . Saruman was power hungry wishing he could achieve the same power as Sauron and even attempted to make his own ring of power
I’m so sorry I took it the wrong way! I have so many different sources to double check and triple check other sources it sometimes all bleeds into each other. Either way, thank you so much for the comments! Good luck to you!
its unfair in a way that Morgoth haven't gotten a female supporter from one of Valar, even in Christianity there was Lilith. Bellatrix Lestrange from HP..Imagine if Tolkien actually made female Valar devoted for Morgoth and gave her sum power as well, would be so cool🤩😜
See Melkor really wasn't a bad guy. He just looked around and saw all the other Valar had hot wives and he's like WTF dad! Well I'm just going to be a hater now
One thing that might explain Sauron and Saruman coming from Aule's stable so to speak is that, aside from Melkor himself, Aule is the only one of the Valar known to have _significantly_ erred according to what he was supposed to have done. Namely, he made the Dwarves in secret, knowing full well the plans of Eru in terms of the Firstborn (the Elves) and Men that followed. Of course, Eru discovered this and may not have been pleased initially, hence Aule offered to destroy the Dwarves before Eru forgave him and gave them true life, but it perhaps hints to something in Tolkien's writing about the pridefulness that comes from crafting things of power.
Which brings us naturally to Sauron, as perhaps the second (or third, depending on where you put Feanor) most powerful crafter of things after Aule, and to a lesser degree Saruman. The latter was also a forger of magical rings, although far less powerful than the ones Sauron and Celebrimbor forged.
Perhaps the urge to craft is but one step away from the desire to control and dominate...as opposed to I imagine the more free and libertarian vibe of someone like Yavanna.
Such a great breakdown and analysis, overall.
Others have said something similar but you’ve added even more detail and it seems you’re on to something!
Thank you !
I know that people have been saying it for so long that it just seems to be a saying, but it’s not an actual thing that Yavannah created the two trees. The two trees came about as a byproduct of the gathering of the Valar and her, holding all the plants and animals in her mind as she chanted and sang, and people also forget that if it weren’t for Nienna’s tears watering the moss, the two trees of Valinor would not have come about. I just wanted to throw that out there because everybody gets that wrong and forgets about Nieena presence there
. Cheers and have a great day folks.
Thank you for this! Nienna is one of my favorite Vala because of her teachings to Olorin/Gandalf. I will look into this more. Cheer to you as well!
Great Video, loved the pictures. Side note: The name Morgoth was given to Melkor by Fëanor, after he killed his father Finwë.
Thank you so much for the compliments! I love these little tidbits too... I will keep this is mind for all future videos!
Excellent video overall, thank you!
Only a couple of points to clarify: -
1. _Technically_ all the Valar set foot on (early) Middle Earth, as their first home was on the Isle of Almaren in the Great Lake in the first version of Middle Earth (during the time of the Lamps) before it was remade. It was only after this was destroyed by Melkor that the Valar moved to Valinor on Aman.
2. Melkor (meaning "the Mighty One" or perhaps more accurately "He Who Arises in Might") never to my knowledge called _himself_ "Morgoth". "Morgoth" was a name given to him by Fëanor when Melkor destroyed the Trees of Valinaor, killed his father and took the Silmarils, meaning "Dark Enemy" or "Black Foe" and was was essentially a curse. He was also known as Morgoth Bauglir, which added the word for Tyrant/Oppressor onto an already foul name.
Thank you so much for the kind words and critiques!
I am torn over Almaren = Middle Earth. Imo, as that was an entirely different piece of land before being reshaped, they are different places entirely. But I do get the other side as well. Either way, I love the discussion! Thank you
Very good video about these Powers. Beautiful pictures and best explanation.
Thanks so much for the kind words! Did you have a favorite? Have a great day!
@@FablesoftheFellowship My favorite is the valië Yavanna
@@nerdanel7592 love it! Great pick!
I like to think that the reason why the Dwarves weren't nearly as corrupted by the Rings of Power as Men in the Second Age was due to the fact that they were made to be stubborn, resistant, and strong willed by Aule, Sauron's former master. A subtle showing of Aule's superiority in craft.
Spot on! Great analysis! Thank you!
Only the forefathers of the dwarves were by Aulë’s hands. But this is still very important and is a reason dwarves we’re even more resilient to evil even though they naturally were impervious to evil.
Good addition there for a little more depth
This is a really good video but you got one thing profoundly wrong. Mandos had no part in gandalf returning to life. That was completely Eru Illuvatars doing.
Thank you for the kind words and for the critique! This is a great call out and you are absolutely correct. Simply put, I assumed and got this one wrong.
Bro your description kills😂😂😂 you deserve a like❤️
An even deeper look into how influential Nienna is to the world and to Gandalf along with the third remaking of the world by GirlNextGondor ‘s recent deep dive into Nienna.
I will definitely check this out. I have seen some of GirlNextGondor's vids... Just watched her Tom Bombadil one and thoroughly enjoyed it!
Varda created the stars after the shaping of Arda, not before. They were created after the toppling of Illuin and Ormal to give some light for the awakening of the elves
Thank you for the correction. I’ll make sure to this information for any future videos about it!
Can see the future, keeps it to himself. LOL
Right?! He’s so selfish!
@@FablesoftheFellowshipwho?
That knowledge in the wrong hands will be beyond disastrous. Think about it.
He's referring to a joke I made in the video. Just having fun in jest, @makkaru112. Keeping good vibes!!
The Valars initially lived on the island of Almaren in the center of the world, after the destruction and loss of symmetry of the world they went to the western continent of Aman where they founded Valinor. Thus, all the Valars walked in Middle Earth
hmmmm.... Almaren does not equal Middle-Earth... Yes it was their first "Home" but it was distinctly an island, not attached to Middle-Earth, right? Makes it no different than Aman/Valinor.
@@FablesoftheFellowship so then how did the Valar get from Almaren to Aman? they had to pass through Middle Earth. except if they were flying
You have me intrigued! I'm trying to look a little harder into it, but wouldn't it be the same as when the Valar did go from Valinor to Middle-Earth to battle Morgoth? Ulmo can literally be water, so maybe they used their powers or the Eagles? I love the discussion though! keep it coming
Vala singular. Valar plural. Not Valars or valas lol
Ílmarin
Aule had a great deal of pride in his creations like the Dwarfs. Pride can be a powerful corrupting force.
but Aule saw the error of his ways and repented and it was Eru who granted him pardon
I think I have to agree with @michaelchan9698 here. I like where your thoughts are, because pride/envy/greed is central to Tolkien's dwarves, but Aule actually saw the faults of his ways and sought forgiveness. Opposite of Saruman and Sauron ways... Either way, I LOVE the discussion.
Pretty spot on!
Love not overwell the products of thy hands, hence a factor in Saruman and Sauron's descent... Being a crafter was a serious point of temptation for Tolkien, there was a very fine line to walk in sub-creating righteously
All great points! I get so pumped when I see great discussion. Keep it coming, whether you're a Tolkien scholar or just casual, we enjoy it all!
Soon may the Valarman come
To bring us sugar and tea and rum
One day, when the Tolkien is done
We'll smoke our leaves and go
Thank you! We appreciate the comments!
Awesome 👏
Manwe & Olorin (Gandalph), Aule & Curafin (Saruman & Mairon or Sauron).
Great piece 🎉
Thank you for the kind words! Love the answers!!!
Curufin is Fëanor’s son. One of 7. Curumo is Saruman(And he was never evil in the books. Never sided with Sauron)
Great callout!
Discord server for Tolkien I’ve created. You’d get so much more information to use at your fingertips
Thank you @makkaru112, I may be interested in joining, but need to temper any expectations. This journey is very new to me(content creation) and the editing is as daunting as the research. Finding that mix of scholar vs casual is what we aim for here. I don't want to get too lost in the sauce. I look forward to your comments in the future!
Are you going to do a "What the hell IS Tom Bombadill?" video soon? I'd like to see it.
I promise it's very much on the list. This video took a bit to do due to the amount of Valar here... But Tom is very high up there! I love Tom and everything he may or may not be...
You’ll find out with the Phil Dragash audibook uploaded by Howard Smith. Book one of five. 11hours.
I will add it to my list haha
Sauron and saruman served Aule, then Gandelf served Manwe
Spot on! Any thoughts as to why Sauron and Saruman lost their ways and became evil?
@@FablesoftheFellowship sauron was so obsessed with ordering and thought that only he could do it and well became power hungry and was convinced by Melkor to join him in his conquest of Arda . Saruman was power hungry wishing he could achieve the same power as Sauron and even attempted to make his own ring of power
Great assessment! Thank you for sharing!
@@FablesoftheFellowship thank I have read the silmarilion
That’s great! Definitely a little heavier/intricate than the Hobbit 😅
I smell ChatGBT influence in this script
How dare you, sir! That’s an insult to AI everywhere.
I appreciate all critiques, though! Good luck to you!
@@FablesoftheFellowship wasn't a critique! If you didn't use it, then it's a compliment 😉
I’m so sorry I took it the wrong way! I have so many different sources to double check and triple check other sources it sometimes all bleeds into each other. Either way, thank you so much for the comments! Good luck to you!
its unfair in a way that Morgoth haven't gotten a female supporter from one of Valar, even in Christianity there was Lilith. Bellatrix Lestrange from HP..Imagine if Tolkien actually made female Valar devoted for Morgoth and gave her sum power as well, would be so cool🤩😜
I can get down with this. They tried to make Shelob(human form) support Sauron in a video game if I remember correctly.
He did. Ulbandi
He did. Ulbandi. His son became Gothmog
@@FablesoftheFellowshiphis spouse was Ulbandi
Good call. Again something I will have to research more. Thank you.
Tulkas beat the crap out of Morgoth chained him and drug him out of his house. Basically aired his cheeks out in front of gods and mortals
This might be my favorite comment to date. Ha! You have a way with words!
See Melkor really wasn't a bad guy. He just looked around and saw all the other Valar had hot wives and he's like WTF dad! Well I'm just going to be a hater now