@@Clough42 You could even make the two cleats different from one another to get a slope front to back as well as left to right. Should get better drainage and you might just need one drain hole in the appropriate corner.
I like the repurposed trays. Most people don’t think about galvanic corrosion. Good thinking ahead on that one. Too bad about the other knee mill but I’m glad Matt took care of it for you. I’m looking at buying another mill and it’ll be another precision matthews mill. My pm25 is cnc and I’ve been wanting a larger manual mill for quick little operations. Keep the videos coming they’re always a pleasant surprise.
That's exactly how I feel. I like my G0704 conversion, but I missed being able to turn the cranks. I also have some projects coming up that will require me to mill parts of the G0704.
I have a South Bend lathe that I needed a tray under the machine so I bought three of the bigger version and then cut and welded the together to get the length I needed, they are really useful to keep the wood bench clean and are easy to keep the mess of cutting oils cleaned up
Hi Paul. You do get a few chips cling to the tape but not often as it's mostly covered by the tray. They are easy to remove also as there is very little strength in the tape itself. Low magnetic effect over a larger area.
I had the same mill that you had RF45 type and bought it thinking that it would be perfect for what I do. Like you it was bought new from the supplier in the UK as I didn't want something worn out on my first use I can remember being really disappointed with how much it flexed during the smallest of cuts 1- 2 mm in mild steel! It was also very noisy and thus I never really used it and the DRO I had bought for it sat in the box for over 2 years before deciding to get rid of it. I looked at the bigger machines again similar to what you now have and decided against one due to the bad experience had with the smaller mill in the same range. It must have been fait as I was looking for a larger machine and a CNC converted Bridgeport came up for sale very close to me and after going to look at it I had to have it. All I can say is wow what a difference so rigid/quiet and easy to use. Love your content and the fact that you make training videos rather than just sticking to stuff that would get you more views. Best Regards Karl
NICE. I came in here browsing your videos looking for the change over point to the new mill and what happened. That unit is obviously a serious upgrade. Glad you got that sorted.
Thanks. I'm making some of these but skipping the threaded fasteners and using VHB tape to mount the printed standoffs instead. No holes and no hardened screw heads to damage cutters and things in the tray later. Also, galvanic corrosion requires a current path, like salt water for example, to complete a circuit. Just having two dissimilar metals touching each other wouldn't do it. Maybe with coolant water or something else in there it might..... somehow.... I have a Jet Bridgeport clone with the full size table. The trays will cover most of the area but leave some open at the ends and I can move the vise around to not always be working in the same spot in the travel. I can cover the remaining area with something else if I'm throwing chips that far.
I'm totally stoked. I will never ever likely need to build trays for a mill 'cos I'll probably never own one BUT your videos have taught me so much about milling and machining, I now know enough to talk 'turkey' to the mechanical engineers at work (I'm an electronic engineer) about aspects of how to go about manufacturing mechanical parts. The pièce de résistance of today's video was that I learned another way to use the digital callipers using the stepped end from the top. I'm so stoked, I'm off to find something to measure! Thanks, James.
I have exactly the same model Mill from P.M.. I got it a year ago and absolutely love mine. The smaller size works great for my space and I have not needed the full size mill yet. Thanks for the video. I have black Delrin sheets covering mine ( it works but I am going to add cleats to mine after watching your ideas ).
there are several great fusion and design nuggets in here (parameters calculated from other parameters, dimensioning multiple lines, mirror, etc). thanks for sharing, as always and congrats on the mill upgrade!
Nice job on the table covers. I too feel they’re necessary to keep the tables ding free long term. I used some urethane mat material from McMaster Carr on mine as I also like to set things to the side of my mill vise when working. You’ll love the step up to the Taiwanese knee mill, especially the PM935TV. I’ve had mine for going on 7 years now (purchased August 2014) and still am impressed with its rigidity and precision. I’m so glad I stepped up to Taiwanese machines when I began talking with Matt early in 2014. I don’t regret going with the PM935TV mill or the PM1340GT lathe one bit. Enjoy your mill. Mike
Nice to see the DRO readout in the corner. I do the same in my videos... I think it's great that viewers can better see what is actually being done there, in addition to seeing the actual machining. Beautiful new mill, and a great first improvement in functionality. Awesome as always, James.
I like the new mill. It's been on my wish list for a while. The tray idea is brilliant. As always I enjoy that you show your Fusion 360 process. I rarely cuss at Fusion 360 thanks to you lol
I'm sure you already know this, but sometimes printing parts out in 'sequence' can save a ton of time printing. Rather than printing every Z-level at once, by hopping between parts, sequential (or sometimes called 'serial/series') printing does each individual part. This can also help with surface finish and stringing, which can also be important. It doesn't come up too often, and it requires some 4th-dimensional thinking (also about how your particular printer setup is) but when you need to print a TON of things and FAST it can really save time. All of those travels can really add up. Again, this obviously worked fine--just another tool to have in the mental toolbox.
Also, not really necessary but I'd recommend getting a rubber tray liner. Makes this clatter around less, and less like that drill bits/etc roll around in it.
Great idea, except for the chips. They like to stick to rubber. I initially hand my table covered in rubber mat with fine ribs (!), and learned the hard way that cleaning was just a nightmare. Ultimately I changed that to a smooth PVC sheet.
Thanks for the video. Learned a lot of great things; parameter settings in F360 instead of go back in the history to change dimensions, over- and undersize prints, that simple way to meassure the CC distance between two holes and a lot of great stuff. Just pressed the prenumeration button :). Have a nice day!
Did I expect to see James center find from the edge of a Costco half sheet pan? Absolutely not. Did I smile at it far more than anything else today? Definitely. I watch Abom to see him indicate anything in a 4 jaw, James you are gonna be me new go-to for edge finding random stuff. lol, either way fun project.
Would have been tempted to nest the trays and clamp them both to drill both trays in one go. Saves a second setup. Clever idea for protecting the table! Amazing that they were such a perfect size.
I actually thought about it, but because of the rolled edges, there would be about a quarter inch of space between them, and I didn't want the drill pressure to bend the top tray.
Just stumbled upon your channel and you totally got me, well done. I really like your work style and the way you explain. Also I will totally steal your idea for my machine, as I'm having the same bad habit of throwing tools on the tracks. Keep up the great work!
Congrats on the new machine! I have an actual Bridgeport Series I with the 2.0 HP variable speed I bought used out of Raytheon here in Los Angeles. Kind of huge for the garage at the house but I love it!
Those are really nice. I picked up little silicone parts trays off of amazon that I use. I found that the medium sized tray works really well on my lathe.
What a great idea for table trays. So easy to replace if they get dented. I cannot imagine a manufacturer shipping out machines with a gross mistake like that. Quite a difference in quality between Taiwan and mainline China.
James. I have the same Mill (Matt is great. I also have the Taiwanese engine lathe from Matt) . Same vise. I have been using magnetic sign material (Amazon) cut to fit with scissors ✂️ on the ways. Been working great. When it’s gets dirty, just clean with wd40. When that doesn’t work just make another one. Been using this method for about 3 years now. Zero rust. Zero dings from tools. . But I like the tray idea as well.
Happy to send you pics. You have helped me more than you know. My lathe was 3 phase and I have pics of what I built from your instructions to make that work as well. I just got the Kurt vise because I was envious of yours. Putting down new sign material now. Looks amazing.
I really like your new mill! I have been using a column mill (ZX-45 clone) and the vibration has always been an issue. Workaround has always been to take lighter cuts....but it adds so much more time. Can't beat knee mills!
James, I am curious as to how far out of spec the squareness was. I think the spec on the 940 is something like .04/300mm or about .0015” over 12”. What did you measure yours at?
Instead of re-printing the runner's with a taper for coolant drainage, just add one washer to the center holes and two washers on one end of the trays to give the trays a little slope.
I’m planning on doing the exact same thing I bought, using plastic cafeteria trays, and pins. That way I can rotate the tray 90°. Because sometimes I’m throwing chips on the side of the vase towards the back. Great video. It would nice to see you make some trays now that fit into the trays hold different tools
Yeah, I think the usual approach is to use a pallet jack to get the mill where you want it and then either use a gantry to lift it and take out the pallet, or cut the sides off the pallet to clear the legs of an engine hoist. I don't have a gantry, and I had to save the pallet, so I played a dangerous game of Jenga to get it off the pallet. I don't recommend you do it that way, and I opted to not publish video of me doing it.
I put a 5/8 stainless pin approximately 1/2 inch long in each corner on the down side of my table protectors. They lift straight off at any point. In hindsight two 5/8 pins along a line in the center would have accomplished the same thing. (2 points determine a straight line.). I have a series of sizes (lengths) so that I can move my vise around, and not put wear on just one part of my table screw. (I must be saving the screw for the next owner(s)!!!). I have the covers not in use stored on a pin on the backside of the mill. I wouldn’t worry about the aluminum being in contact with the cast iron. They’re not going to be on there that long, because you’ll be dumping chips and wiping them down if you use any form of fluids. If I would have worried about that I could have turned from a diameter greater than 5/8” and left a flange.
Haha! I always like how you pretend to try and please the commenters. We all know full well that you'll do exactly as you please :-).That's one sweet mill. Approaching the Bridgeport territory.
Nice mill :) I tried rigid semi-fixed covers when my mill was new, but it didn't work out well because I decided to make a practice of rotating the vise through L - centre - R positions on the table to even out wear. I don't find it much of a hassle to do this every few months and it also ensures regular checks on alignment. Always enjoy your videos. Cheers, Alan.
Congratulations on the new/better mill James. Going by the distinctive squared off upper column shape, sheet metal access panel on the L/H side I'm positive it's the same size and mill I bought through Penn Tools in New Jersey about 10 years ago. At that time they were being built and branded as a Bemato from Taiwan. Last time I checked they weren't listing these mills in the 9" x 35" table size any longer, but that doesn't mean much. My user manual clearly shows that the same size Jet branded mills were also being built by them. Your video shots didn't show the head well enough to tell if you bought the same powered spindle feed model I've got. I also looked at the Rong Fu 45's with the built in powered spindle feeds before buying mine. At that time the prices for each were almost equal. Having the ram and turret capability for over size part and head positioning made my decision for me and I've never regretted buying what I did. One added bonus that's seldom mentioned on the machinist forums is these clones use the same 3.375" spindle diameter the real BP's have. There were and still are a wide variety of specialty heads built to use the R8 taper and that spindle size to clamp to. In fact I just bought a new condition Volstro rotary milling head for mine that was known to only have been used once. Even the head castings on these mills are machined to use the cast in anti rotation lug my Volstro head comes with. One trick that seems to be little known with the Bridgeport type mills I got off the PM forums that you may not know. After tramming the head in X,Y and tightening down the head bolts, back the worms off to a neutral position, you should be able to spin the worm in either direction due to back lash with your finger tips. That helps keep the pre load off the worm gear and vastly helps to keep the head from moving in the pre loaded condition due to cutting loads and machining vibrations. Given the magnification error from the pivot points out to the cutting tool, even a 10th movement at those pivot points is a few thou out at the spindle. Since I started doing that my head stays in tram a whole lot better. I can't say about your mill, but mine was built using standard Bridgeport bolt hole pitch spacing and sizes on the X axis feed screw bearing hangers, and the standard dimension's for the feed screw end sizes. So off the shelf power table feed clones of the Servo product bolt right up without any modifications.
Yeahl, this mill appears to be pretty Bridgeport-standard. The power downfeed pretty much the same, with the direction plunger in the crank, the engagement lever, spring clutch, and even the little tiny barbell lever for the upper auto-feed disengagement.
You said let me know what we think. Personally I think it’s a very good idea and will do the same for my Chinese Bridgeport. Personally if I were screwing the trays to the cleats I would have used counter sunk screws for a smooth tray. As I don’t have a 3D printer I will just use wood and some 3M double side tape instead of the screws and put a non slip lining in the trays. Thanks for the great idea. Cheers Stuart 🇦🇺
When you pulled out the delrin bar I was screaming you can 3D print the cleats (I did this for my table saw sled) and then a few seconds later you said you would 3D print them. You really had me going lol.
I've seen people make similar out of plywood. Just a sheet with a "tab" hanging down over each side of the mill. The flat top has the advantage of not collecting chips like your trays, but has the disadvantage that things can roll off of them. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other in my opinion. Your trays definitely look nicer.
Personally I'd say catching chips is an advantage. I'd rather vaccum them up out of the tray or just dump the tray out rather than have to sweep them off the floor.
Congrats on the upgrade, though understandably it would be frustrating to have a new machine with problems that you had to have fixed. Hopefully this one turns out to be a good long term addition to your shop.
Yeah, it was frustrating. Moving heavy machines around is hard work, but I don't mind the hard work. The bigger issue is the extra risk exposure involved in additional machine moves, engine hoists, etc. It's done now, and I'm happy, so we're good and we'll look forward.
Man that sucks, I ended up getting us the smaller PM-728VT at work, and we have all been really happy with it, of course I was making them all use a small grizzly mini mill before, so of course its much better than that. That being said, I want to check the squareness now, but the PM-728VT is supposed to be their most precise bench mill.
Excellent, excess precision. Very nice design with the bump on the sides and thin walls to flex, might have to try that one myself. I think a spreadsheet parameter function might be the biggest missing feature in my mind from my preferred modeler SolveSpace - I end up making line segments in a sketch solely to serve as reference lengths.
Okay James it is not fair that you are the only one on the planet to have these. So here is the deal. I have the P M 833-T mill. I am pretty sure it has the same table on it as you have on your mill. If you would be interested in printing just the plastic cleats I would surely be interested in buying a set for my mill. As of now i have some 3/16" Masonite on mine with Sheetmetal covers on the Masonite. So if interested let me know and I can and will pay you in advance to make me a set of them.
Love the precision how you are handling any problem / task. Guess thats one of the main cause why your workshop looks so nice and clean! :) Congratulations James, love your videos! Congrats for the new mill. Would be great to see a review on that, and I am curious whats are your upgrade plans on that. Greetings from Hungary, Budapest.
definitely goin to feel the difference with the knee mill.. but the 935TV is also twice the price of the 940M with less features. Excellent small mill.. but out of my meager budget.
I never knew of the chemical reaction between aluminum and cast iron but you are right I use aluminum plates and I get a weird black oxide.....great idea as always James man your handy with fusion
Thanks! If you look up metal compatibility and galvanic corrosion, you'll see that there are some combinations of metals that are a really bad idea. It turns out aluminum or steel and cast iron are pretty okay together. But since I had the opportunity to separate them, I did.
How well are those cleats holding up? Two issues I noticed are that the spring sections have the lip, giving them a right angle cross section, and the nubs on the side don't have a relief to click in under the shoulders of the t-shot. I think i would have attached the cleats with backingless VHB tape rather than machine screws to avoid penetrating the trays, but that's a bit of a specialty item (but an extremely useful one to have on hand).
Better than a rubber bottom in the tray, silicon heat pads (they are about 1/8" thick) the kind you get for the kitchen. They are cheap enough at wherever you shop, plus they wont deform if you toss hot tooling onto them. I think I might have added another cleat for the center as well, just to keep the tray from eventually deforming and touching the table anyway. It's bound to happen with aluminum...
Hi James. I have a DROPROS lathe specific DRO. I know very little about getting the most out of its capabilities. I doubt you need one on your lathe but a nice thorough tutorial on this or the mill one or both would be excellent! Just a thought.
Those are a great idea, James. I've been thinking about something similar for my 9x42 table... now I just have to decide whether that size pan will work or I look for something else.
You know that galvanic corrosion only occurs if the metals are part of an electrical circuit. If they are at the endpoint of a circuit, there is no electrical activity, and so no corrosion. Since the machine body is grounded, there won’t be a problem. Moisture needs to be present too. It’s too bad you found out after you put so much time into that mill. This one is a nice model. I’ve been thinking of getting one myself. So I’m going to pay a lot of attention to your experience with it.
If you have differing metals in contact and exposed to an electrolyte, you have a circuit, and current will flow, even if one of the metals is grounded.
@@Clough42 you still need a continuation of the circuit in some way. There needs to be a return oath somewhere. Now, you’re talking about an electrolyte. How is that going to cause this, unless the electrolyte is itself inherently corrosive?
@@melgross the return path is formed by the metals being in contact. Insulating them is a common way to prevent corrosion. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
@@Clough42 I would have to know what you’re referring to specifically. I ran a large commercial photo lab for 20 years. We had a good deal of processing equipment. Metals were in contact constantly, from the design of the machines. Titanium to stainless aluminum to carbon steel, etc. it never caused problems. More recently, I disassembled much of my mill for a cleaning. The encoders are attached to protective aluminum shields to the cast iron of the table, and other parts of the machine. No anodizing. The only problem was the expected stains from the various cutting oils and labs. No corrosion there. I had 6 years of chemistry and four years of physics, and I thought I understood this problem pretty well. What type of electrolytes are you p,and I g on using? Machining solutions are usually formulated to prevent this problem. Some older solutions could corrode some metals, but they’re mostly off the market. I’m not saying you should take care, but I really don’t see the need.
I was originally thinking about getting one of these PM knee mills, then I saw your series on the 940 and thought that seemed good, now I’m back to the knee mill again. Either will be overkill for me, but this seems like a sweet machine!
Neat, nice job. I totally agree with your comment on dealing with Precision Mathews and Matt in particular. It was an absolute pleasure doing business with them. They even accepted my purchases from other suppliers to consolidate everything onto 1 pallet with my PM25mv for shipping. Thanks.
That was a great job done. Really enjoyed. Simple but very effective.👍❤ BTW James, have you any interest in restoring a German or Swiss mills? They really are the gold standards for milling machines.
It's always a pleasure watching your content. I've learned a lot of neat tips and tricks and I'll have to make one of those sheet pans for myself. I looked at the Bondhus links, I think you got the metric and SAE links backwards.
Was going to buy the PM-940, But since you had to return it for the problems you mentioned. Is the mast flex in your opinion a engineering problem along with the bed dove tails or a one-time problem with the machine you returned.
I have only ever seen one, so my opinion would be speculation. There's plenty of that on the internet; I don't need to add to it. Matt told me that the Taiwanese models are better, and my single data point supports that.
@@Clough42 Thank you. But considering which model to buy, I'm going to jump up to the 835. With all the add ons to the 940( DRO,ETC) it's economically better to go with the 835 and a more ridged machine
Great caliper trick with incremental mode!
You could add a taper across the length of the 3D printed parts to introduce a slant to the trays (for draining coolant).
Oh, that's a great idea! If I set up flood coolant, I will definitely have to add some drain holes, but I hadn't thought about adding a slope.
@@Clough42 You could even make the two cleats different from one another to get a slope front to back as well as left to right. Should get better drainage and you might just need one drain hole in the appropriate corner.
@@cooperised yea or you just throw some washer stacks between
@@Total_Egal If you’ve been watching this channel for any length of time you’ll realise that washer stacks are not an option!
I agree that Matt at Precision Matthews is incredible as is the rest of the company. Your new mill looks incredible.
I like the repurposed trays. Most people don’t think about galvanic corrosion. Good thinking ahead on that one. Too bad about the other knee mill but I’m glad Matt took care of it for you. I’m looking at buying another mill and it’ll be another precision matthews mill. My pm25 is cnc and I’ve been wanting a larger manual mill for quick little operations. Keep the videos coming they’re always a pleasant surprise.
That's exactly how I feel. I like my G0704 conversion, but I missed being able to turn the cranks. I also have some projects coming up that will require me to mill parts of the G0704.
I have a South Bend lathe that I needed a tray under the machine so I bought three of the bigger version and then cut and welded the together to get the length I needed, they are really useful to keep the wood bench clean and are easy to keep the mess of cutting oils cleaned up
I used aluminium trays with strips of self adhesive magnetic tape on the back. Works great, doesn't move and is quick and cheap
Oh man that's awesome i didn't even know that existed!
Any issues with chips building up on the magnets?
Hi Paul.
You do get a few chips cling to the tape but not often as it's mostly covered by the tray. They are easy to remove also as there is very little strength in the tape itself. Low magnetic effect over a larger area.
I had the same mill that you had RF45 type and bought it thinking that it would be perfect for what I do. Like you it was bought new from the supplier in the UK as I didn't want something worn out on my first use I can remember being really disappointed with how much it flexed during the smallest of cuts 1- 2 mm in mild steel! It was also very noisy and thus I never really used it and the DRO I had bought for it sat in the box for over 2 years before deciding to get rid of it. I looked at the bigger machines again similar to what you now have and decided against one due to the bad experience had with the smaller mill in the same range. It must have been fait as I was looking for a larger machine and a CNC converted Bridgeport came up for sale very close to me and after going to look at it I had to have it. All I can say is wow what a difference so rigid/quiet and easy to use.
Love your content and the fact that you make training videos rather than just sticking to stuff that would get you more views. Best Regards Karl
NICE. I came in here browsing your videos looking for the change over point to the new mill and what happened. That unit is obviously a serious upgrade. Glad you got that sorted.
Love this! No 3d printer here but I had some sheet hdpe laying about and it worked awesome! Thanks for sharing.....
Thanks. I'm making some of these but skipping the threaded fasteners and using VHB tape to mount the printed standoffs instead. No holes and no hardened screw heads to damage cutters and things in the tray later. Also, galvanic corrosion requires a current path, like salt water for example, to complete a circuit. Just having two dissimilar metals touching each other wouldn't do it. Maybe with coolant water or something else in there it might..... somehow.... I have a Jet Bridgeport clone with the full size table. The trays will cover most of the area but leave some open at the ends and I can move the vise around to not always be working in the same spot in the travel. I can cover the remaining area with something else if I'm throwing chips that far.
The best ideas are the simplest ones. Easy peasy. Thumbs up!
I'm totally stoked. I will never ever likely need to build trays for a mill 'cos I'll probably never own one BUT your videos have taught me so much about milling and machining, I now know enough to talk 'turkey' to the mechanical engineers at work (I'm an electronic engineer) about aspects of how to go about manufacturing mechanical parts. The pièce de résistance of today's video was that I learned another way to use the digital callipers using the stepped end from the top. I'm so stoked, I'm off to find something to measure! Thanks, James.
I have exactly the same model Mill from P.M.. I got it a year ago and absolutely love mine. The smaller size works great for my space and I have not needed the full size mill yet. Thanks for the video. I have black Delrin sheets covering mine ( it works but I am going to add cleats to mine after watching your ideas ).
One of the best Fusion 360 explanations I have run across, even going quickly you were clear and concise. You have a future here if you want it.
I always seem to be learning something from your videos! The caliper trick is top notch! So simple I never thought of it
there are several great fusion and design nuggets in here (parameters calculated from other parameters, dimensioning multiple lines, mirror, etc). thanks for sharing, as always and congrats on the mill upgrade!
Nice job on the table covers. I too feel they’re necessary to keep the tables ding free long term. I used some urethane mat material from McMaster Carr on mine as I also like to set things to the side of my mill vise when working.
You’ll love the step up to the Taiwanese knee mill, especially the PM935TV. I’ve had mine for going on 7 years now (purchased August 2014) and still am impressed with its rigidity and precision. I’m so glad I stepped up to Taiwanese machines when I began talking with Matt early in 2014. I don’t regret going with the PM935TV mill or the PM1340GT lathe one bit.
Enjoy your mill.
Mike
Nice to see the DRO readout in the corner. I do the same in my videos... I think it's great that viewers can better see what is actually being done there, in addition to seeing the actual machining.
Beautiful new mill, and a great first improvement in functionality. Awesome as always, James.
I like the new mill. It's been on my wish list for a while. The tray idea is brilliant. As always I enjoy that you show your Fusion 360 process. I rarely cuss at Fusion 360 thanks to you lol
I'm sure you already know this, but sometimes printing parts out in 'sequence' can save a ton of time printing. Rather than printing every Z-level at once, by hopping between parts, sequential (or sometimes called 'serial/series') printing does each individual part. This can also help with surface finish and stringing, which can also be important. It doesn't come up too often, and it requires some 4th-dimensional thinking (also about how your particular printer setup is) but when you need to print a TON of things and FAST it can really save time. All of those travels can really add up. Again, this obviously worked fine--just another tool to have in the mental toolbox.
Not as useful when the individual part has large layers. Great when you have small objects though.
Great idea especially the spring part.
Thanks for the inspiration. Will do this to my own mill.
Oh, new mill! Congrats!
Also, not really necessary but I'd recommend getting a rubber tray liner. Makes this clatter around less, and less like that drill bits/etc roll around in it.
Not a bad idea.
Because it's a standard size tray you can likely find a silpat for 1/4 sheets
@@Clough42 dollar store cutting boards would work great
Great idea, except for the chips. They like to stick to rubber. I initially hand my table covered in rubber mat with fine ribs (!), and learned the hard way that cleaning was just a nightmare. Ultimately I changed that to a smooth PVC sheet.
Thanks for the video. Learned a lot of great things; parameter settings in F360 instead of go back in the history to change dimensions, over- and undersize prints, that simple way to meassure the CC distance between two holes and a lot of great stuff. Just pressed the prenumeration button :).
Have a nice day!
Congratulations on the new mill. Super practical solution. I’ve added some 1/4 sheet trays to my Costco list 👍👍😎👍👍
Did I expect to see James center find from the edge of a Costco half sheet pan? Absolutely not. Did I smile at it far more than anything else today? Definitely. I watch Abom to see him indicate anything in a 4 jaw, James you are gonna be me new go-to for edge finding random stuff. lol, either way fun project.
Would have been tempted to nest the trays and clamp them both to drill both trays in one go. Saves a second setup. Clever idea for protecting the table! Amazing that they were such a perfect size.
I actually thought about it, but because of the rolled edges, there would be about a quarter inch of space between them, and I didn't want the drill pressure to bend the top tray.
Just stumbled upon your channel and you totally got me, well done. I really like your work style and the way you explain. Also I will totally steal your idea for my machine, as I'm having the same bad habit of throwing tools on the tracks. Keep up the great work!
Congrats on the new machine! I have an actual Bridgeport Series I with the 2.0 HP variable speed I bought used out of Raytheon here in Los Angeles. Kind of huge for the garage at the house but I love it!
They look awesome nice when u have the tools and
Great idea!
I came to the same conclusion and grabbed very similar trays and I use them all over the place now.
Those are really nice. I picked up little silicone parts trays off of amazon that I use. I found that the medium sized tray works really well on my lathe.
What a great idea for table trays. So easy to replace if they get dented. I cannot imagine a manufacturer shipping out machines with a gross mistake like that. Quite a difference in quality between Taiwan and mainline China.
Brilliant!!Cheers from Toronto Canada!!
Thats the first video I saw from your channel and I really enjoyed it. Great work there
James. I have the same Mill (Matt is great. I also have the Taiwanese engine lathe from Matt) . Same vise. I have been using magnetic sign material (Amazon) cut to fit with scissors ✂️ on the ways. Been working great. When it’s gets dirty, just clean with wd40. When that doesn’t work just make another one. Been using this method for about 3 years now. Zero rust. Zero dings from tools. . But I like the tray idea as well.
Oh, I like that idea!
Happy to send you pics. You have helped me more than you know. My lathe was 3 phase and I have pics of what I built from your instructions to make that work as well. I just got the Kurt vise because I was envious of yours. Putting down new sign material now. Looks amazing.
I really like your new mill! I have been using a column mill (ZX-45 clone) and the vibration has always been an issue. Workaround has always been to take lighter cuts....but it adds so much more time. Can't beat knee mills!
James, I am curious as to how far out of spec the squareness was. I think the spec on the 940 is something like .04/300mm or about .0015” over 12”. What did you measure yours at?
Instead of re-printing the runner's with a taper for coolant drainage, just add one washer to the center holes and two washers on one end of the trays to give the trays a little slope.
Washer stacks, good enough for the marble machine x...
Nice upgrade, congratulations!
I’m planning on doing the exact same thing I bought, using plastic cafeteria trays, and pins. That way I can rotate the tray 90°. Because sometimes I’m throwing chips on the side of the vase towards the back. Great video. It would nice to see you make some trays now that fit into the trays hold different tools
Hay James thanks for showing what the 1/2 button did on the DRO WOW did not know that, Big thank you,New zealand
3D printers have diagonals. A 12” bed prints 16-17” long objects, depending on how wide they are.
Wish we could have seen the installation for the new mill. The old one was interesting and this one looks more-so.
Yeah, I think the usual approach is to use a pallet jack to get the mill where you want it and then either use a gantry to lift it and take out the pallet, or cut the sides off the pallet to clear the legs of an engine hoist. I don't have a gantry, and I had to save the pallet, so I played a dangerous game of Jenga to get it off the pallet. I don't recommend you do it that way, and I opted to not publish video of me doing it.
I put a 5/8 stainless pin approximately 1/2 inch long in each corner on the down side of my table protectors. They lift straight off at any point. In hindsight two 5/8 pins along a line in the center would have accomplished the same thing. (2 points determine a straight line.). I have a series of sizes (lengths) so that I can move my vise around, and not put wear on just one part of my table screw. (I must be saving the screw for the next owner(s)!!!). I have the covers not in use stored on a pin on the backside of the mill. I wouldn’t worry about the aluminum being in contact with the cast iron. They’re not going to be on there that long, because you’ll be dumping chips and wiping them down if you use any form of fluids. If I would have worried about that I could have turned from a diameter greater than 5/8” and left a flange.
Haha! I always like how you pretend to try and please the commenters. We all know full well that you'll do exactly as you please :-).That's one sweet mill. Approaching the Bridgeport territory.
Nice mill :) I tried rigid semi-fixed covers when my mill was new, but it didn't work out well because I decided to make a practice of rotating the vise through L - centre - R positions on the table to even out wear. I don't find it much of a hassle to do this every few months and it also ensures regular checks on alignment. Always enjoy your videos. Cheers, Alan.
Congratulations on the new/better mill James. Going by the distinctive squared off upper column shape, sheet metal access panel on the L/H side I'm positive it's the same size and mill I bought through Penn Tools in New Jersey about 10 years ago. At that time they were being built and branded as a Bemato from Taiwan. Last time I checked they weren't listing these mills in the 9" x 35" table size any longer, but that doesn't mean much. My user manual clearly shows that the same size Jet branded mills were also being built by them. Your video shots didn't show the head well enough to tell if you bought the same powered spindle feed model I've got. I also looked at the Rong Fu 45's with the built in powered spindle feeds before buying mine. At that time the prices for each were almost equal. Having the ram and turret capability for over size part and head positioning made my decision for me and I've never regretted buying what I did. One added bonus that's seldom mentioned on the machinist forums is these clones use the same 3.375" spindle diameter the real BP's have. There were and still are a wide variety of specialty heads built to use the R8 taper and that spindle size to clamp to. In fact I just bought a new condition Volstro rotary milling head for mine that was known to only have been used once. Even the head castings on these mills are machined to use the cast in anti rotation lug my Volstro head comes with.
One trick that seems to be little known with the Bridgeport type mills I got off the PM forums that you may not know. After tramming the head in X,Y and tightening down the head bolts, back the worms off to a neutral position, you should be able to spin the worm in either direction due to back lash with your finger tips. That helps keep the pre load off the worm gear and vastly helps to keep the head from moving in the pre loaded condition due to cutting loads and machining vibrations. Given the magnification error from the pivot points out to the cutting tool, even a 10th movement at those pivot points is a few thou out at the spindle. Since I started doing that my head stays in tram a whole lot better. I can't say about your mill, but mine was built using standard Bridgeport bolt hole pitch spacing and sizes on the X axis feed screw bearing hangers, and the standard dimension's for the feed screw end sizes. So off the shelf power table feed clones of the Servo product bolt right up without any modifications.
Yeahl, this mill appears to be pretty Bridgeport-standard. The power downfeed pretty much the same, with the direction plunger in the crank, the engagement lever, spring clutch, and even the little tiny barbell lever for the upper auto-feed disengagement.
You said let me know what we think. Personally I think it’s a very good idea and will do the same for my Chinese Bridgeport.
Personally if I were screwing the trays to the cleats I would have used counter sunk screws for a smooth tray. As I don’t have a 3D printer I will just use wood and some 3M double side tape instead of the screws and put a non slip lining in the trays. Thanks for the great idea. Cheers Stuart 🇦🇺
Thanks for sharing! Might want to drill a hole in those trays for when you use coolant.
When you pulled out the delrin bar I was screaming you can 3D print the cleats (I did this for my table saw sled) and then a few seconds later you said you would 3D print them. You really had me going lol.
Nice!
When he pulled out the Delrin bar I started hallucinating dollar signs🤣
Table saw cleats... that's a great idea! Thanks for mentioning it!
Impressive CAD skills.
Practice and time.
I've seen people make similar out of plywood. Just a sheet with a "tab" hanging down over each side of the mill. The flat top has the advantage of not collecting chips like your trays, but has the disadvantage that things can roll off of them. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other in my opinion. Your trays definitely look nicer.
Personally I'd say catching chips is an advantage. I'd rather vaccum them up out of the tray or just dump the tray out rather than have to sweep them off the floor.
Sadly, I haven't found a great way to contain the chips. Especially when flycutting aluminum. :(
@@Clough42 Sure you have - that's what the walls of the workshop are for !
@@criggie it doesn't work. I find chips in the carpet all over the house. :)
Great idea James. Love for you to do a review of the PM 935, I am thinking about purchasing one. Mike from Fredericton, Canada
And I thought I was the only one using sheet pans for that, I use stainless gastronorm ones though.
Congrats on the upgrade, though understandably it would be frustrating to have a new machine with problems that you had to have fixed.
Hopefully this one turns out to be a good long term addition to your shop.
Yeah, it was frustrating. Moving heavy machines around is hard work, but I don't mind the hard work. The bigger issue is the extra risk exposure involved in additional machine moves, engine hoists, etc. It's done now, and I'm happy, so we're good and we'll look forward.
Ok, I've been where you are now. Start measuring for a Haas Mini Mill 2. I'm just saying...
Man that sucks, I ended up getting us the smaller PM-728VT at work, and we have all been really happy with it, of course I was making them all use a small grizzly mini mill before, so of course its much better than that. That being said, I want to check the squareness now, but the PM-728VT is supposed to be their most precise bench mill.
Good job!
I like that it is a tray. I used some counter top acrylic to make mine and while they are nice, I have to be careful of round tools rolling off.
Excellent, excess precision. Very nice design with the bump on the sides and thin walls to flex, might have to try that one myself. I think a spreadsheet parameter function might be the biggest missing feature in my mind from my preferred modeler SolveSpace - I end up making line segments in a sketch solely to serve as reference lengths.
Okay James it is not fair that you are the only one on the planet to have these. So here is the deal. I have the P M 833-T mill. I am pretty sure it has the same table on it as you have on your mill. If you would be interested in printing just the plastic cleats I would surely be interested in buying a set for my mill. As of now i have some 3/16" Masonite on mine with Sheetmetal covers on the Masonite. So if interested let me know and I can and will pay you in advance to make me a set of them.
I completely understand. I hate it when something loses rigidity! 😜
nice setup
Nice solution, as allways
Love the precision how you are handling any problem / task. Guess thats one of the main cause why your workshop looks so nice and clean! :) Congratulations James, love your videos! Congrats for the new mill. Would be great to see a review on that, and I am curious whats are your upgrade plans on that. Greetings from Hungary, Budapest.
The secret to having a clean shop is to control the camera angles.
@@Clough42 makes sense 🤣🤣🤣
definitely goin to feel the difference with the knee mill.. but the 935TV is also twice the price of the 940M with less features.
Excellent small mill.. but out of my meager budget.
My Bernardo KF 25 Pro (near identical to your smaller CNC converted mill) also is out of square by a looot (>0.1mm per 100mm, where spec is
Thank you, always interesting.
Great video. Thank you.
Thanks for another lesson, idea and overall great content!
That's a nice design for the trays. If someone has no 3D printer, could probably use some rubber well nuts instead.
I never knew of the chemical reaction between aluminum and cast iron but you are right I use aluminum plates and I get a weird black oxide.....great idea as always James man your handy with fusion
Thanks! If you look up metal compatibility and galvanic corrosion, you'll see that there are some combinations of metals that are a really bad idea. It turns out aluminum or steel and cast iron are pretty okay together. But since I had the opportunity to separate them, I did.
How well are those cleats holding up?
Two issues I noticed are that the spring sections have the lip, giving them a right angle cross section, and the nubs on the side don't have a relief to click in under the shoulders of the t-shot.
I think i would have attached the cleats with backingless VHB tape rather than machine screws to avoid penetrating the trays, but that's a bit of a specialty item (but an extremely useful one to have on hand).
Nice video, on Ebay buy some silicone rubber baking mats to line the pans with. Will deaden the sound and keep tools from sliding around in the tray.
Better than a rubber bottom in the tray, silicon heat pads (they are about 1/8" thick) the kind you get for the kitchen. They are cheap enough at wherever you shop, plus they wont deform if you toss hot tooling onto them. I think I might have added another cleat for the center as well, just to keep the tray from eventually deforming and touching the table anyway. It's bound to happen with aluminum...
Aaeesome new machine and guards!
Hi James. I have a DROPROS lathe specific DRO. I know very little about getting the most out of its capabilities. I doubt you need one on your lathe but a nice thorough tutorial on this or the mill one or both would be excellent! Just a thought.
"Welcome to cost co. I love you." Nice solution
Those are a great idea, James. I've been thinking about something similar for my 9x42 table... now I just have to decide whether that size pan will work or I look for something else.
Nice work James...
Now I am embarrassed, my table covers don’t have cleats… 😭. Thanks for a nice lesson on the parameter function. 👍🏼
You know that galvanic corrosion only occurs if the metals are part of an electrical circuit. If they are at the endpoint of a circuit, there is no electrical activity, and so no corrosion. Since the machine body is grounded, there won’t be a problem. Moisture needs to be present too.
It’s too bad you found out after you put so much time into that mill. This one is a nice model. I’ve been thinking of getting one myself. So I’m going to pay a lot of attention to your experience with it.
If you have differing metals in contact and exposed to an electrolyte, you have a circuit, and current will flow, even if one of the metals is grounded.
@@Clough42 you still need a continuation of the circuit in some way. There needs to be a return oath somewhere. Now, you’re talking about an electrolyte. How is that going to cause this, unless the electrolyte is itself inherently corrosive?
@@melgross the return path is formed by the metals being in contact. Insulating them is a common way to prevent corrosion. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
@@Clough42 I would have to know what you’re referring to specifically. I ran a large commercial photo lab for 20 years. We had a good deal of processing equipment. Metals were in contact constantly, from the design of the machines. Titanium to stainless aluminum to carbon steel, etc. it never caused problems. More recently, I disassembled much of my mill for a cleaning. The encoders are attached to protective aluminum shields to the cast iron of the table, and other parts of the machine. No anodizing. The only problem was the expected stains from the various cutting oils and labs. No corrosion there. I had 6 years of chemistry and four years of physics, and I thought I understood this problem pretty well.
What type of electrolytes are you p,and I g on using? Machining solutions are usually formulated to prevent this problem. Some older solutions could corrode some metals, but they’re mostly off the market.
I’m not saying you should take care, but I really don’t see the need.
It was nice of them to take back your mill even though you modded it.
Excellent
I'm really late on the uptake. I only just noticed your mill had changed and had to go back through your videos to see what had happened!
Nice trays!!!
Just checked and PM now lists a slightly smaller version. The PM-835S.
That one has a Taiwanese head, with the balance made in China.
I was originally thinking about getting one of these PM knee mills, then I saw your series on the 940 and thought that seemed good, now I’m back to the knee mill again. Either will be overkill for me, but this seems like a sweet machine!
Can't beat the PM 935 series mill. I have a PM 935TS where I installed a VFD. It is fantastic & so quiet.
Neat, nice job. I totally agree with your comment on dealing with Precision Mathews and Matt in particular. It was an absolute pleasure doing business with them. They even accepted my purchases from other suppliers to consolidate everything onto 1 pallet with my PM25mv for shipping. Thanks.
That was a great job done. Really enjoyed. Simple but very effective.👍❤ BTW James, have you any interest in restoring a German or Swiss mills? They really are the gold standards for milling machines.
Did you know you can create your parameters as you are building your sketch? cleathWidth=0.1234
Oh, interesting. I didn't know that.
That's a great tip, I'm going to have to try that. Thanks
And this is an especially useful tip, because the *&^% Parameters dialog is modal.
mindblown.gif
Thank you! This is amazingly useful!
It's always a pleasure watching your content. I've learned a lot of neat tips and tricks and I'll have to make one of those sheet pans for myself.
I looked at the Bondhus links, I think you got the metric and SAE links backwards.
You're absolutely correct. I'll fix that. :)
Nice work
nice uograde,.. I do like the reliefs in the kurt vise for the locking bolts , cheap vices dont have that.
Nice!
What about epoxy a couple of magnets on th inside of the pans ?
Neat project
Was going to buy the PM-940, But since you had to return it for the problems you mentioned. Is the mast flex in your opinion a engineering problem along with the bed dove tails or a one-time problem with the machine you returned.
I have only ever seen one, so my opinion would be speculation. There's plenty of that on the internet; I don't need to add to it. Matt told me that the Taiwanese models are better, and my single data point supports that.
@@Clough42 Thank you. But considering which model to buy, I'm going to jump up to the 835. With all the add ons to the 940( DRO,ETC) it's economically better to go with the 835 and a more ridged machine