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in the end Re-Zero wins the cake with 25 oranges . Best Protagonist : Echidna Best Fight Scene : Echidna drinks the bodily fluids Best Soundtrack : Re:Zero S2 OST Echidna Best Waifus : Echidna Best Storytelling : Echidna (エキドナ) was the Witch of Greed. Mentioned throughout the series, particularly for her connection to Roswaal and Beatrice, she formally debuted in Arc 4 as a major supporting character and later secondary antagonist. Best Animation : her jiggly お尻とおっぱい Best OP : BRUH IT STARTS WITH HER AND ENDS WITH HER SMILE (Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- Season 2) Best Episode : EVER Episode had Echidna in it Best Characters : Echidna ( you ask me why ?): -Race :Human -Gender :Female -Age :19 (Castle of Dreams version)( Not illegal :D ) -Mid 20s (actual body) :400+ (soul) -Hair Color :White -Eye Color :Black (Iris) White (Pupil) -Height :164 cm (5'5")
i share his love for oranges but I'm still mad that he made me ruin a bag of grapes by putting them in the freezer. I couldn't eat them cause they were like rocks and when they thawed enough to eat they were mushy. DONT FALL FOR IT, IT'S ALL LIES
Watch Delicious in dungeon, it's really good too, similarly good. By that I mean it has a lot of the same qualities that makes Frieren and Mushoku good af, but the anime is made by Studio Trigger. I've been enjoying it this season too.
YES! You're one of the only people that pointed out how MT's intros integrated into the scenery and how that made it so much better. I hope they start doing that again since that was one of my favorite parts about the show.
I hope they really do the season 1 openings again, it made the world feel so big and vibrant. With the new openings and story direction so far the world feels so small again.
its probably unlikely tho, cus a set intro sequence saves time in animating each episode. The reason for s1 having those integrated intros was likely the abundance of time given to produce s1 compared to the very little time to produce s2.
@@GuacJohnsonliterally none of those were a perfect rhyme. there was not a single word other than orange with the exact ending of the -ore-inge ending sound
One orange to Frieren because I can actually recommend it to people. My sister and I bond over being fantasy nerds but there's no chance in hell I'm recommending Mushoku Tensei to her. Although orange to Mushoku Tensei for doing the shit that makes it impossible to recommend. It might make me uncomfortable with alot of wtf did I just read/watch moments but atleast it handles things in a unique way I've never seen before.
I agree with you here. Personally, I preferred Mushoku Tensei because of how massive of an impact it brought to my life. However, I can't really recommend this to my other friends, especially if they're new to this controversial topic. Frieren, on the other hand, despite not having a large impact as MT, I happily shared and discussed this series with my other friends, even to those who doesn't watch anime
I agree It's the same for me Both me and my sister love anime I recommended her frieren and told her it was my favorite fantasy anime But in reality MT is my favorite And not in a million years I will suggest MT to her She knows about it but I have warned her like it was 'Berserk' and not 'MT'
Both shows feel very human to me and that's why I like them. The hate for Mushoku is from people who don't like seeing things that make them uncomfortable... which I 100% understand!!! Even I am like what the actual hell am I watching at times. There are just some great moments in the show like early s2 when he tried to kill himself in a split decision while depressed after realizing he just ruined things with sara by acting like an absolute fkn loser, that whole scene and arc was great and felt really human just seeing a whole relationship break like that in an instant.
in fact, Rudeus tried to kill himself not because of attitude, because. he never truly loved Sarah, but because he felt hated by both Sarah and the group with whom he spent a lot of time. That’s why he was amazed that in the end he was saved by the Soldier, who, in his opinion, on the contrary, hated him the most
@@Ghorda9 to be fair most people watching this video has watched mushoku already or absolutely HATES it with passion I'm on the third group after finishing the novels 4 times already and I gotta say all thing considered that spoiler is... acceptable
Bro just casually dropped one of the most sinister takes on oranges and acted like nothing happened. I FUCKING LOVE ORANGES. Also I hope Mushoku Tensei and Frieren get infinite seasons because of how peak they are
@@KhanMann66 The studio doesn't matter. It can change for season 2. With Frieren specifically, the main issue is we have to wait for more of the story to be released in the manga first.
I disagree with the take that Frieren doesn't change tbh. The entire point of Frieren is her making a conscious effort to appreciate the time she has more. Sure her development isn't quite as drastic as Rudeus's but she still very much consistently shows growth throughout the show. From her learning that the time she spends isn't just her own anymore, to her appreciating things because she's experiencing them with people she cares about even if its something she considers trivial or just how much Himmel has affected the way she sees and thinks now, the Frieren you meet at the start of the show is noticeably not the same Frieren you know by the end of the show.
Frieren definitely has changed. Her demeanor has probably not changed too much. But her attitude and empathy towards others developed immensely. Maybe the premise of Frieren being "after the hero's journey" may disorient some viewers, Frieren does definitely change, as seen with the time she spent with Fern.
Its so funny to me when she realizes Fern is growing anxious over wasting her life on some random unimportant whim Frieren has and she's like "okay fine, I'll only keep looking for 2 more years and then we can continue" lol
i like stories that focus on the main character so frieren journeys whatever didnt appeal to me that much literally couldn't get through the first episode
@@bluegate4630 man i also hate it when every character in a show is also just as compelling as the main character and feel like they also have their own unique story to tell in a world so full of life and intrigue. i hate it when characters except the main are all one dimensional tropes which only exist to further the main character’s development.
Something I noticed after watching both animes is that Mushoku Tensei is deeper than it initially appears. What seems like a regular isekai anime actually takes us on a profound journey of a geek who gets a second chance at life. It made me think, "How would it be if this happened to me as well?" The characters in Mushoku Tensei are so unique that many viewers can relate to them. For example, Rudeus undergoes significant development over the years. You can see how he connects with this new world and learns to love-not just Sylphie, but also his family. The anime is special because of these meaningful and sentimental moments that permeate the story.
@@happygiyuu look up the greyrat family tree and you'll see how many of his kids marry their uncles and aunts And even though it was removed due to how messed up it was, rudeus' sister aisha (early to mid 20s) seduced his son when he was around 12 and rudeus walks in on them doing the deed. After the whole family rejects their relationship they run away together and are found about two years later and she's pregnant with his kid...
@@rushindweeb4085 I guess my comment was a bit more truthful lol, Ik the spoiler of sun freaky incest shit. Spoiler… Aisha went to Ars because she saw Rudeus in him. And the reason she was after Rudeus is because Lilias dumbass basically said she had to serve Rudeus forever lol I get whachu mean tho
Frieren, it's unique in a way to show the character develepment, discovering her humanity is her journey, so is the viewers. Jobless is a cool anime about the shut-in who lives in another world, then builds his own new character influenced by his former life. To me it's Frieren, there is something about the way it is presented that the viewers will also wonder about their own existence. Makes you think more of what you need to value in life.
I think you really loosely watch Mushoku Tensei. Rudeus is not just builds his new character around his surrounding but lives in it. By that i mean he is changing as a human and as a person, all people he met, all events that happen to him and tragedies will occur to him is shaping him. By his character you starts to think about how important life is, how hard and cheerful it can be. Frieren to me about journey and how sacred moments with people around you can be. Frieren is a special show in my heart.
I'm genuinely clicking the ad link because i appreciate your content so much lol. Idk what it is, but whether your personality or humor or maybe editing style, it feels like your content is imbued with such a unique flavor that i can only describe as being you, so human and personal, like something AI could never replicate. And i just have to say i respect you and how you do things so much. i remember the first time i saw one of your videos in the car after i left the gym and that unique feeling you give off i noticed then and i haven't stopped noticing since. Love your work, keep going. You have something not many on this site have. Thank You.
@@Echidnut Haha You're welcome man, just thought you should know, im sure many others feel the same way about you and that's why they watch. you're a king 👑 I hope you appreciate yourself as much as your audience does. Keep killing it bro.
And also because oranges are one of the largest fruit consumed per year so you could technically control an entire nation with oranges as their biggest exports now you have reached into the realm of politics then you starts ruling the world by expanding your oranges empire and release an invasive specie of locust made in a lab in north korea to eradicate and make all the other fruits extinct so now you have oranges as the only fruit in the world which increases its demand after that you rule over the world because everyone will get scurvy without vitamin C sources from fruits now it's a global health issue so you start making oranges a new global currency and thus making you rule the world
@@gaat_chris4960 I don't think reincarnation is the fitting word either, despite everyone using it. You wouldn't get to keep your past life memories and personality after a reincarnation.
@@Sukenus Actually in the case of top Tibetan Holly figures they keep the memories or so it is claimed. And others claim past life memories as well. As the principle that some are reincarnated with memory over thousand years old it is a form of reincarnation (even if it is false it is part of the description) I'll go farther there is no such thing as reincarnation and science had proven it in studying how the brain develops. You are your personality and memories once they are gone you died even if there is a spiritual connection to the follow on person you will never enjoy it. But I did have to correct your impression of existing beliefs.
@@RedRocket4000 Yeah, you're right. I forgot that some ppl claim/believe to remember their past lives (or fragments of them). But I agree with the science part.
I really like how MT does its side characters and how many of them go about their own character devlopment, especially after they meet Rudeus. And even then, Rudeus isn't the only person who helps them change. Sylphie Before Rudeus: she was a timid, shy elf with no friends, being bullied and discriminated against due to her green hair. After Rudeus: she became a highly skilled mage in her own right albeit too attached to Rudeus. However, after the Mana Disaster, she became more of her own person after meeting and becoming friends with Ariel & Luke. Roxy Before Rudeus: she was a Saint-class Water Mage who was very headstrong and ran away from her own parents & tribe. When she became a mage, she also ran away from her own teacher, Jenius. After Rudeus: she became a King-class Water mage, and after meeting back with Nokopara (the horse demon dude), she finally reconciliated with her parents. (she will also eventually reconcile with Jenius, but that's a little bit later and was like a paragraph or so in passing) Eris Before Rudeus: she was a... violent beast of a child, who only looked up to her grandfather and Ghislaine and refused to better herself from various tutors. After Rudeus: she was able to learn some basic education. She also became skilled thanks to the help of Ghislaine and Ruijerd's training, as well as adventuring with Rudeus & Ruijerd as Dead End. Though, she did leave him, that is until... Ruijerd Before Rudeus: he was a Superd living all alone in the Demon continent, finding no luck on how to repair the reputation of his people. After Rudeus: he was finding hope for his people's reputation to be mended and even found himself being able to talk with other people, despite telling them he was a Superd. Zanoba Before Rudeus: he was just the 7th prince of Shirone, only caring about art, specifically statues/figurines, even seeing only other people as just dolls made of flesh. After Rudeus: he started to care about other people, especially during his studies at Ranoa University and when he met and basically adopted Juliette. Cliff Before Rudeus: he was just a prideful boy boasting his Advanced-level magic skills, looking down on other people. After Rudeus: he became more humbled over time, and was able to find love through Elinalise, which allowed him to care more for other people and be willing to help them. And this is just only a handful of important characters so far
And the fact that you listed like 6 important characters and didn't cover any one of the characters I think are the best written characters IN mushoku tensei, just says it all.
Norn Before Rudeus: not alive After Rudeus: best girl Jokes aside though she's genuinely great and I think it comes down to her being a "normal" person surrounded by legends. They could have done what most stories do and made her sympathetic in every way by making her the "ugly duckling" but instead there's nothing wrong with her and she doesn't really having any giant weakness compared to the average person. It's just that she doesn't get compared to average people and has to make her own path in a setting where she is disadvantaged. In fact her one strength above normal people would be her looks but that's a family trait and adds to the expectations of greatness she has to deal with.
Norn, imo, is the most well written character in the series. I mean, the author said it himself, that he had to chose another MC to write abt, he would pick Norn
@@quangtuantran7181 I wrote a comment talking about how the most recent episode was one of the best in the series even from the perspective of someone who finished the light novel it was extremely well done and made me like Norn even more than I did after reading the light novel. Man this is probably one of the most emotional seasons
Gosh dude the characters in Mushoku Tensei and the whole world is like watching an actual world, not just an anime. Like all the people that even have just a slight amount of influence play a role and even the side characters to a certain extent. All the characters in the show you think have no depth are likely well acquainted with some of the main characters/side characters and it feels like they’re genuinely real people (like Nokopara knowing Roxy and Zanoba’s perv brother being our introduction to Zanoba as a character) Every little thing is interconnected but it doesn’t get ahead of itself and stays within the boundaries that is reality and feels like it could have actually happened within the story/world that story is set in itself
I feel like Frieren should get an extra point for storytelling, purely because of how perfectly the flashbacks are integrated into the episodes. They say what they need to, they don't disrupt the overall pacing, they are well-paced within the flashbacks themselves, and they give insights into past relationships (especially for Frieren herself).
nah, world building in MT is also insanely good, there is a lot of history but that was not shown yet, only mentioned stuff like Laplace war. All that is going to be explained later and its going to blow your mind :)
I disagree. The flashbacks themselves are good, but they usually disrupt the scene they come in. Sometimes I almost forgot what was happening before them.
I actually think the flashbacks are one of the weakest aspects of Frieren. They're impactful at first, but they're far too frequent and lack any sort of subtlety, so after a certain point it just feels like emotional manipulation. The whole format of >scenario >flashback to very similar scenario in Himmel's party >Frieren repeating verbatim what Himmel said to her in that scenario gets tiring really quickly.
Yeah but then Mushoku Tensei should get an extra point for the turning point episodes. Having episodes with not only world changing events but events that change who's in the main cast, change the location and direction of the story. Not many stories can get you to love the characters and their stories and then basically drop them(for a time) and not have you missing what was dropped.
I think saying Frieren has no character development is a bit shortsighted. Her character has developed a ton mainly due to her awareness of her problems. Rudy is much more of an outward fix. He has problems that manifest for everyone that isn't himself, thus the change is more obvious. Frieren's changes to me are geared toward those who are a bit older in life, particularly mid-to-late 20's. That unwillingness to change your ways after being shut in for years and living the way you always have until something forces you into an alternate way of thinking. Her ability to trust others, be open to them, and showcasing her emotions through actual words and physical reactions are incredibly difficult things to change about herself, yet as time continues for her within the new group, she beings to express these things without much hassle and sometimes even preemptively like how she did with setting up Stark and Ferns date. Rudy never really developed outside of the teenage mindset when he was in the normal world, so his perception of person-hood is locked to that point. His growth shows more because he can now experience the world outside of being an awkward and shunned person in society. So for me it's like he's picking up where he left off/dissociated from society.
^^^ "Hi, I just commented to let you know that I didnt read your comment" ^^^ bruh you guys are not only in an analysis video, you are also replying this rude ahh reply to a comment not specifically meant for you. Let me guess, you people used to copy homework and complain when you get low score?
@@playermasterfun7334 bro....as someone who has read it....there is a demographic who finds who story relatable. I am not part of the demographic, most regular people can't relate to the story. All my friends who do relate to the story, I can tell you are not regular people
@@noirekuroraigami2270 That makes sense. Mushoku tensei have always fulfilled the "You can be a better person" lesson but for people who did it to themselves rather than getting caught by a terrible situation.
I like mushoku tensei more, but Frieren is also a masterpiece. The problem is i can't recommend mushoku tensei to friends... for obvious reasons. No issues there for Frieren
Well, yes, Frieren is a shonen so it's practically for everyone (except maybe the very young), but in any case I wouldn't call it a "masterpiece" given the insufficient world building and the concepts that are interesting but not taken into consideration adequately, furthermore the system magic is non-existent, and being a story that is 95% about magicians it would be important.
One of the biggest differences between the two is Frieren is post-adventure while Mushoku is essentially all settup for the real climax of that world, as it is said that Laplace is the big bad and wont be resurrecting for 80 years which is beyond Rudy's life time. He doesn't even get to fight the "Demon lord" while Frieren already beaten her's. Beyond that, I will stand on my opinion that Mushoku has more relatable and human feeling characters and handles more day to day normal human emotional issues while Frieren handles fewer things in more impactful and thought provoking ways. Not to say there aren't certain things that Mushoku does better. I can acknowledge how well written and impactful the themes and situation in Frieren are (more so the manga), but the relatability of the themes and situations in Mushoku along with the grounded feeling you get from the best world building I've ever read just makes everything hit harder and more personally. From the get go the two series establish they'll be handling very different topics. The thing holding Mushoku back is Rudeus in the anime lacking an internal monologue showing his confliction with the bad things he says and does. They could've written a less disgusting character but that would've taken away something pivotal from his development and the story itself. The 'if even this scumbag can find redemption, become better, and find happiness in life (though it may be a second one) why can't you?" narrative wouldn't be nearly as compelling.
I may be biased/unfair since I've finished Mushoku while Frieren is still releasing, but I don't think the world building is even remotely comparable.. the more I think about it the less sense it makes for it to be a tie, Mushoku wins that category easily. As you said, everything in Mushoku tensei is connected to eachother. It rewards you for remembering small details about the world in ways Frieren doesn't begin to compare to without contradicting itself. The depth, ties, flow of time, unchanging laws, fleshed out histories, overlapping plot threads, etc all done in a way to feel as natural as breathing is something that Frieren just hasn't matched up to, even in the latest major arcs in the manga. There's ofc always the point of Frieren's side quests being super deep but they're essentially all tied back to something about Friren's party excluding a few that are expressly meant to show that the world doess't revolve around them. However, needing to include things to intentionally make it feel as though the world doesnt revolve around the Hero party, to me, is not a good thing. Mushoku has compelling side quests and back stories of its own without needing to add those occasional outliers to make a point. I could go on but I'd end up talking myself in circles since I'm not used to talking about this kind of thing with others. In any case, I don't feel like Frieren's world building (amazing as it is in terms of vibes) matches up to Mushoku's deep and developing world. And no, I don't think Flamme's backstory chapters close the gap, similar things are handled much better often in Mushoku. Not to mention Rudy and his group basically are Flamme anyway. That just goes back to my initial point about them being Post vs. Pre "Demon Lord" stories. The 'pre' is forced to explain more, do more settup, etc that the 'post' can simply write off with a few words that may or may not be explained later.
He did fight a demon lord tgh, sure not someone as strong as laplace but still he did fight 2 demon lords in his life time, but laplace isn"t even the last boss, he was just a mini boss in the end
Great video! That orange rant will stick in my head a long time! I especially liked how you said MT’s characters felt like people because that puts my own feelings into words so well.
Frieren's scenario is way more unique and interesting. It's a fresh take on the long lived elf trope, and one that doesn't dwell on the sadness of seeing your loved ones dying (that's Serie's plot contribution) but instead shows how to move forward in life by learning from those mistakes. In contrast, a weeb redemption arc is a staple for isekais.
counter argument, mushoku was one of the first to do these stories(note i am not caliing it was the very first as i cant confirm this but it was definetly one of the first few), so dragging it down because others copied is a bit harsh imo
Don't really want to undermine your opinion, but I think you're not giving mushoku that much credit just because it's a redemption story. Do note that I don't just refer to mushoku on anime but also on the books. So while you may think my opinion is invalid now, it may make sense later in the next arc of mushoku. Just as Frieren show how to move forward in life. Mushoku just hits differently. We see how rudeus in his past life is beyond redemption, given a chance to start again but with his trauma and personality, changing completely wasn't easy. Then life and God constantly shits on him. But still, with his flaws we journey with Rudeus and see how he matured since he was a child until he became a man ready to sacrifice everything just to protect what's important to him. While I like Frieren, for me it's not on the level that made me feel when I watched and read mushoku. While being fantasy, mushoku just feels so real. The characters, the story, just wait for the next two arcs of mushoku. That's when I think it's at its peak. The pure suffering and reality Rudeus had still makes an impression for me till this day.
i think you underestimate the development of feelings by frieren. that's the whole point of the anime. she's sensitive, but distanced. mushoku has much stronger feelings developement, but it does not mean frieren's weak. some people admire fighting sexual dysfunction, some prefer dwelling into one's inner self.
As a manga reader for Frieren , and a LN reader for MT. Frieren character's development is very few and spare. She just realized her love for Himmel and feeling for others people the entire story. Rudeus on the other hand, change so much even at the current Anime arc: from a pervert, to fighting his PTSD, to realized Eris is a person (ep 8), to realized people get killed when he messed up ( ep 11), to understand Paul, to love Eris, to heart broken, to try fixing his PP by assaulting the Beast girls, to fall in love with Sylphy and then be a husband....etc... The character development of Rudeus is insane , I haven't see any Fiction that actually do so many facets of a person's life like MT.
@@nguyendi92 you missed my point completely. didn't bother to read the answer, since i watched the video. frieren has some character developement, not zero, that's my point.
Oranges also have flammable skin! the oil in the skin is very flammable, if you squeeze the orange skin near a lighter, u get sparkles from the tiny tiny particles of it
I'm extremely biased about Frieren, so i will give you an orange because you made a video includes Frieren and then i will take it back because Frieren deserves more oranges.
That segue to the ad was great, I didn't even skip it. I love both, but I think Frieren might edge Mushoku just because it's a show I have 0 reservations recommending to people face to face. Whereas I've barely talked about Mushoku irl.
It's true, unlike Freeren, which is aimed at a larger audience, Mushoku is hard to recommend. Despite its cult status and recognition, due to the controversial content, Mushoku Tensei was even afraid to be adapted into anime. Therefore, the anime was released only in 2021, when other issekai like Konosuba and Re zero received anime much earlier, despite the fact that in 2012 Mushoku was more popular than them.
@@АлександрТерехов-ж3й Yes The very damaging to people and our culture denial that people have sexual thoughts because of religious belief that most don't even have is bad.
You just massively condemned Frieren as it continues to push the idea that normal people don't have frequent sexual thoughts and almost everyone has some very sexual thoughts that would be bad to act on. The power of the taboo instinct once set is massive and violating can cause emotional damage ask almost all LGBQT+ raised in conservative condemning of LGBQT+ household. This is also a very good example of how Taboo can be totally illogical and harmful. As authoritarian power is based on repression of sexual expression in part this a major reason authoritarians and those who want to oppress women the sexual nature of people and censoring nudity, sex and making women into sexual objects and making them cover there bodies is done. Women have the most power, Democracy has the most power when nudity no a taboo, when sex not a taboo even for children seeing it, when young attractive women wear little to nothing women have more power and the society is more free, where what people call porn is very legal and uncensored people are free and women have power and respect. As showing violence and not showing sexual things how cultures prepare the population to like war I say the popular saying of the Anti War movement during Vietnam. Make Love not War. And thus sexual thoughts and characters who like to have sex are needed in stories. And children who do have sexual thoughts but in a child like way like in Spy Family and Dragon maid are also needed as we have reached historical highs in young people killing themselves and being unhappy. So the two centuries or so experiment of extending childhood is a partial failure. Might not want them starting families as soon as the girls can have babies with 3/4 of children not living plus needing army for next war that was required not an option back then, but at least all children and juvenile adults need to know them having sexual thoughts and feelings is normal that they are not abnormal and evil which most kids deep down must think they are in modern life.
@@RedRocket4000 bro your insane and you either gotta relax and deconstruct or seek help, not a fan of the alphabet community but they have no bearing on this conversation and this society is already hypersexual and doesn't need more than what it already is if you cant see that then I don't know what the to tell you.
The weird thing is that most characters in Moshoku Tensei show more emotion than the ones in Frieren, but Frieren still makes the audience show more emotion.
For now. As someone who's read ahead the thing that makes Mushoku Tensei special is time. They build up characters and make you care over time. Like he said in this video Paul is going to be a great example of this. He's the character that has made me realize how dumb it is that so many stories don't include parent characters. Anime is especially bad for this. Most main characters don't have parents only mentors.
@@CC-of5xl That's the main difference of the two shows. MT is developing over time (especially on the character department), while Frieren is a story after her peak in life already happened. And regarding the parent thing, that can't be helped. Anime is dominated by the "shounen" genre, where the main target audience doesn't wanna hear about parents.
@@Sukenus except you also get a lot of development in frieren, it's just really subtle, the frieren you see as the end of the series is notably more expressive than she was at the start
@@Pathetic-Ali If you are talking about openings, absolutely yes, openings are a budget saver and a waste of time, they will also be beautiful to look at but it is much better to use that time so as not to be forced to cut out beautiful speeches/reasonings.
Hard disagree about the characters in Frieren. There's a ton of character development from all of the main characters. Especially Frieren. The difference is that none of the characters in Frieren that we follow were absolutely AWFUL and slowly becoming better people. They still grow and change through their interactions with others as they learn about themselves and others. Frieren becomes more able to care about the small transient moments in life and not just take them and the people around her for granted. Fren slowly becomes actually more mature instead of just trying to be mature. Stark slowly gains confidence in himself and begins to overcome his childhood trauma. Sein is only in the story for a short time but overcomes his apathy and self destructive nature. We see a lot of change over the years for Heiter. The new characters introduced in the mage exam we don't see a lot of growth for most of them. But we get the first glimpse of things to come in future arcs for certain ones. Frieren's characters and character writing is it's strongest element. A character doesn't have to make a complete 180 from being absolutely awful and unbearable to become a decent human being in order for there to be character development.
Fern in the last episodes behaves much more like a child than in the beginning, ready to be offended by anything, while Stark, although he has changed a little, basically behaves almost the same. if anything progressed, it was the relationship between Stark and Fern
@@Aquakabijust to check, is character development about getting to know the character and their motivations, while growth about the character changing/maturing?
@@dhjijejd6980 if you watched it objectively you would notice fern and stark development.. yes fern still throws tantrum and stark still seems to be immature sometimes but that's normal, because that's what you would expect from a 18-19 y.o teenagers.. maturing but still somewhat childish.. like a sein said in episode 14 and 17
@@emirarfandani5655 As I said, I actually have no complaints about the specific development of relationships. it just seems strange to me that from the very beginning Fern looks like a girl who had to grow up early and who for most of the episodes behaves like an adult and rational, with each new episode she becomes more and more like a child, I understand that they are 18-19 but this is already that age at which they are usually not offended by touching with the expectation that they will receive sweets.
Mushoku tensei is the greatest fantasy anime of all time for me. I've never gotten so damn hooked up on an anime. It's the first one that made me read the novel when s1 aired. Honestly, outrageously good
100% agree. If it wasn't for MT season one making me want to read the novels, i probably never would have got into reading light novels, i was up to like volume 16 before season 2 even started airing, and now i'm up to volume 23. I just read one or two books and then don't touch them for months lol. I don't want the story to end too quickly, or to have to wait for the next ones to release, which are the redundancy volumes at this point.
The only interesting character in Mushoku Tensei is Poul. You can't take any of the female characters including children seriously when they get sexualized in every episode and any man in the series can sexually harass them with no consequences.
The introduction of mushoku tensei (first few episodes) are much more hype and meaningful than Frieren's. When I tried to begin Frieren's I had to forcefully sit there watching some boring parts without anything interesting going on for the whole time. Anyway that's just me
For me, a big flaw of Frieren is the lack of rules, currently the magic works a bit as the author wants, and when it works like this the viewer cannot predict what will happen (and not in a good way), in second place there 'it is the introduction of interesting concepts on paper but which are then not exploited or are even contradicted during the work.
Watching MT is not like watching an anime or an isekai trash Its basically like watching a social experiment that takes a lifetime which answers the question of what will happen to a NEET when he is transferred to an organic world with magic. I guess that is the word *ORGANIC its like the events and the people really do think on their own and develop as people and its kinda like "real life"😊
Realife women wouldn't treat you kindly after you kidnapped them and won't accept polygamy (even in a medieval society). Mushoku Tensei is plagued with problems in regard of how it frames sexuality and women (let alone pedophilia).
@@nobrainnogame4320 I know present day women who accept polygamy lol I also know of real life women who will always forgive you as long as they love you. Its culture specific. In Islam for example if you can provide for more than one wife you can keep more than one wife. Keep on mind Greyrats are noble and even if Paul was estranged he is still provided by his family with a well paying job. This indicates your lack of experiences with women or a tunnel vision perhaps of your own circumstances FOLLOW UP: i might have missed the "kidnap" part. Who was kidnapped in the story by her own husband to be? I am sorry I might have missed that. @Pedophillia - besides Rudy's innate flaw of being attracted to lolis, his actions after reincarnation are age appropriate so to speak. Even if he had a memory of everything which eventually even Eris knows this but doesn't care. And why would she? They are living in a world with weirder events than reincarnated guys popping out Maybe you lot are finding it weird understandable since they use adult Rudy as a monologue. Imagine if Rimiru was treated like that..it would also be weird. But all in all in this world he is 13 and Eris was older than her. Your image of other people is affected by your own physical body. When you were second grade you see third graders as "bigger" kids. But surprisingly when you become a fourth grader you suddenly see the fourth graders as kids even if two years ago you saw them as bigger people. Its perspective and that is important. As you can see he was so dumb he did not even notice sylph was a girl and actually saw her as a boy.,, I don't think that is something a pedo will experience. He loved *lolis this is more of "Anime" lolis. he isn't much familiar to real life lolis like a child Sylph which he even saw as a boy. A real pedo would have been so turned on by a kid sylphie. But why wasn't Rudeus? He touched Eris sure...but he saw her as a bigger girl since she is actually literally bigger and Older than he is lol keep in mind he is reincarnated so he is no longer 34.
@@elcidgaming "I also know of real life women who will always forgive you as long as they love you." But this is not the rule. And to be honest I hope these women one day realize that this kind of love is toxic. You can hear horror stories about serial killer's wives helping their husbands to commit crimes, this kind of relationship is not healthy at all. If you ask any girl in the street if she is fine with polygamy with the husband marrying multiples women, 99.999% of the case you'll get a sounding "No". "In Islam for example if you can provide for more than one wife you can keep more than one wife" Even in Muslim countries, polygamy isn't seen in favorable light nowdays (even a quick google search would have told you so). "This indicates your lack of experiences with women or a tunnel vision perhaps of your own circumstances" Keep your assumption for yourself and keep it cordial. Or should I judge you based on the fact that you like a show that sexualize children? "i might have missed the "kidnap" part. Who was kidnapped in the story by her own husband to be? I am sorry I might have missed that." S2 episode 7 "his actions after reincarnation are age appropriate so to speak." Not really he has the memories and persona of his former life, the only thing that changed his is apparent age. "Imagine if Rimiru was treated like that.." Tensura for all its fault, at least never showcase Rimuru lusting after a 7 yo girl. "Your image of other people is affected by your own physical body. When you were second grade you see third graders as "bigger" kids" No, Rudeus doesn't behave like a child: Paul himself said that from his point of view, Rudeus was so precocious that he believe he is a genius. Quite the opposite since he did't hesitate to use his child appearance to manipulate his mother. "A real pedo would have been so turned on by a kid sylphie. But why wasn't Rudeus?" S1 episode 4: He intend to groom Sylphy to become his ideal wife. It's typical pedophile predator behaviour. "He touched Eris sure...but he saw her as a bigger girl since she is actually literally bigger and Older than he is lol" "keep in mind he is reincarnated so he is no longer 34." S1 episode 4: Redeus admit himself that mentally he is a 40 yo scum. Don't even know you try to deny the canon. But even all that would have been fine... if it was framed correctly and with the story addressing these problems. However the show never does so and neither does the Web/Light Novel. The author himself, said that Rudeus never fix this aspect of his character. So this lead to the question: what the point of all this child/women sexualization? Is it even relevant to the story? And what the meaning behind it?
The biggest problem for me with Mushoku Tensei is that while the anime points out that Rudeus is a pervert and that this is something he has to correct, the story at no point condemns him for being an adult man with sexual attraction to children, and when he finally gets older the story just sweeps the whole situation under the rug. (Yes, I know that "It's just fiction" and I'm not offended by it or anything, it just makes me uncomfortable when I have to actively ignore this part of the story in order to enjoy it)
Because he himself will have to find this strange, the world is not an artificial intelligence that will punish him randomly over time, he tries to change his attitudes and see that more than he really was he is disgusted but happy to change. It's actually kind of ironic since in the future Rudeus will see this type of thing with another person (no spoilers) and he will be disgusted by it too
I do have to agree with how some of his perverted aspects are handled to be a negative part of it for me... We shift away from his negative behaviors, which is good, but narratively not always feel the weight of those negative aspects in the story itself prior.
@@F3lipe-u8x Rudy being a pervert early on was more treated like a gag is what I mean, even Eris beating him up is more of a comedic tone for that gimmick before. I didn't care for kidnapping beast girls episode in S2 pt 1 either after Rudy had some character development. He groped a girl to check his ED. But in narrative, the beast girls are just seen as getting the punishment they deserved, so nothing was seen as wrong by Rudy in the story. That was what made the beast girls respect him as their leader as a narrative reward. I liked him standing up to the girls in the school yard, but the other stuff after went too far imo. I still like MT and Rudy overall, but I still have some areas to critique for some of those aspects.
@@raec5426 Well if it wasn't made as a comedy sometimes it would make things even worse at least he didn't go too far until she had consent and she become an adult.
I haven't seen Frieren yet but what i have seen from it it definitely rivals Mushoku in the anime department. Though idk if it can rival my love for the Mushoklu series as a whole.
World building and grounded human problems, point to MT. Family friendly, deep philosophical questions and a slowly paced adventure, point to SnF. Animation, music and design, point to both.
@@potatoadw9387 I've read the source material for both series and I think for now it's a tie. I think mushoku tensei RN is a bit superior due it being way longer than frieren. But frieren also have immense potential and both series gives such a pure fantasy vibe. Also best parts of frieren isn't even animated yet much like mushoku tensei. It's going be a interesting rivalry for the next few years
Frieren has got that Lord of the Rings vibes with the generally wholesome Christian vibe (for the most part) and themes of hope, growth, journey, friendship, love, and time. It paints a picturesque and dreamy illustration of a fantasy world, the typical Classical Romanticism found in Sir Tolkien's works (and by extension, that of Sir Lewis and Narnia) as well. The world is beautiful and magical. The people, the towns and kingdoms. Light and hope prevailed in the end, good will always win. But struggle and growth and journey lies ahead, and in between. And with loss comes love, with memories of the past comes realization of the future. Mushoku Tensei has got that Game of Thrones vibe, a more realistic take on the medieval-esque world of swords and magic, presenting a message of redemption from a degenerate, miserable and aimless life, finding meaning in growth and genuine character development from the encounters and experiences Rudy faced along the way. It still tells a story of growth and journey, of friendship and love, of memories and realizations, of time, but of course it is never afraid and never shys away from Just like how Martin wrote Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) and his other works complete with the honest-to-history messed up stuff, including but not limited to incest, sex, lots of depraved sex, family kills family, nobility being dicks and fucked up people, etc. Basically the people of Rudeus' world. While Frieren is this majestic chaste elf mirroring the angel-mages of Illuvatar (Gandalf and Saruman), Elinalise is a completely flawed and absolutely depraved elf whore who probably has the same traits as basically anyone from GoT. And yet she was redeemed (?..more or less, I guess, poor Cliff but I guess people have their own preferences). People in MT are real, and they can be cruel and disgusting just like that, but people are still good in the end. A cruel and dark picture of reality is prominent at first, but in the end, beauty and goodness still prevails. There is still happiness and messages of redemption and growth to be seen, and in the end our MC wins. He grows, becomes a better person, and the peoples and situations he experience changes with him. The world is still magical.
Look, Mushoku tensei has many more similarities with The Lord of the Rings than with Game of Thrones, at least as regards the construction of the world and the importance of the various characters and their stories, you mentioned Elinalise, to give the same example I can say that she has a story that is probably more complex and interesting than that of all of Frieren's characters combined, but this is true of almost all the characters that are introduced.
I keep hearing this, but it’s a lie, because he gets everything he wants and doesn’t really change, it just becomes more accepted when the kids he’s preying on grow up.
that's factually untrue. Not only does his bad points, at least those worthy of disgust, never go away, but he's rewarded FOR them. Like, it's not even "how come he is a protagonist even though he has x flaw", the author actively reward him for being an absolute piece of shit and straight up pedophile
The problem is that the story expects us to ignore the big Elephant in the room: He's a grown man being sexually attracted to children! No character development or trauma justifies this
Mushoku tensei wins low diff just because of the novel. It was so good it changed my life. If just the anime then mushoku still wins because of the better character design and development (and waifus) and because frieren is still only one season. However, it’s very close.
I read ahead in the light novel so spoilers ahead: ======================================= Mushoku Tensei's characters feel more like growing people because of the cause and effect oriented story telling that its author went for. Events that happen, are going to happen, and are thwarted from happening all affect how the characters change in an extremely dynamic fashion. I think this style of story telling really defines just how richly designed each and every character feels and genuinely is and really goes to show the author's level of both story crafting and character writing. Each and every character likely has a massive 'web' of how they are, how they could be, and how they will be based off of events that may or may not happen in their futures and pasts. Think of it as if every character in the story had Subaru's Re: Zero web but instead of dying, they just have many many branching possibilities and developments depending on what exact events unfold in the story.
I just like Mushoku Tensei a lot more than i like Frieren. Reason being similar to how you feel about Echidna and Roxy. I remember one video where you said that if you've met Roxy first, your TH-cam profile would probably be her. That's how I felt about Mushoku Tensei.
huh, I don't usually disagree but Frieren has better characters. Frieren's characters might not be the best thing about the show as you said, and MT's characters are interesting. However MT seems to lean heavier on tropes and things that are specifically anime situation that take away from the characters realistic appeal. Frieren's world feels more realistic and less like a video game, and that give credence to the characters cause they deal with more realistic problems. I love both, but Frieren takes the cake hands down for me. MT has road bumps that you find out are roller coaster swoops but the initial impact is still like a road bump. Frieren just has a slow-ish start, prbly not slower than MT's.
I find it weird that people think mt characters are more realistic. From how I see it mt has better characters in an anime context but it’s Frieren character that feel more human.
I'll get even more specific than that cause I Love what you said and feel the same way. MT characters act realistic in their own unique way, that mirrors reality, but feels very anime. Frieren is more like how people would act in a fantasy world if no one was an iskeki'd character.
I can agree with everything except the world building because Mushoku tensei WB is a league above frieren with the amount of detail in every region and how they have their own language and when they interact with each other it feel real that something i couldn't see the author of frieren handle very well.
Yeah, they went OVERBOARD with the language. I think they made 3 fantasy languages just for MT, Human God, Demon God and... Best God maybe? i don't remember
I somewhat agree that Mushoku Tensei has more detail in lore and world building, but skimming through it all it kinda just becomes extra flavour for what is essentially also standard fantasy underneath. The different races there are essentially just humans with horns or longer ears. Frieren while surface level and skimmed through most of it, it's take on its fantasy races is pretty exciting from the logical take on the elves emotions to the unique take on Demon as "evil races" being essentially apex predators with human level intelligence. I've started watching both at the same time, so the comparison is pretty fresh but I'm impressed by Frieren abit more.
@@snimon5824 I don't agree with you at all, especially in the part about the race I don't see how Frieren has a unique take on the demon being evil with human-level intelligence isn't that like every other fantasy out there. well let's go for the Mushoku Tensei part about races I will only talk about demons races we have the Migurd race they have a unique look with a 200 hundred life span and have Their special ability is to communicate with their kind via telepathy then we have the superd race they have pale skin, green hair, and red gem (third eye) on their forehead that allows them to detect living beings and the flow of mana and They are born with a forked tail, which hardens and falls off to become their trident spear as they grow up and lastly, we have The Immortal Demon Race are descendants of the First Demon God. Males have jet-black skin and six arms while females only have two arms. Their most prominent traits are their Demon Eyes and immortality that allows them to regenerate after their bodies are destroyed. I can go on about various races and their ways of life, aspirations, and distinct unique skills that pass down from generation to generation, etc., so I'm not sure how they merely resemble humans with horns and large ears.
@@Kratos_Sky You miss the part where I said "apex predator". Tho I didn't quite explain, so imagine a cat or tuatara lizard. Solitary predatory animals but imagine giving them human level of intelligence but still having its base instincts. In a nutshell, they are an entire race of amoral psychopaths that hunt humanoid races through aggressive mimicry. Mostly solitary but form loose gangs, only really got together and organised because of the Demon King. They're not really evil as predator animal hunting its prey wouldn't be considered evil. Your Mushoku Tensei race examples don't really show them having any different mindsets to humans, hence just humans with horns or humans with longer ears. (Tho the beast folk animal behaviours are somewhat interesting) It works for the subversion of "we're not so different/humans are the real demons", it's culturally different but human culture are already diverse. Not that there's anything wrong with this, but it's soo many fiction already done this already. Mushoku Tensei is really just Dragon Quest, Elder Scrolls or Warcraft but with more anime tropes with its cat girls and demon lolis. Mushoku Tensei's advantage is that it has more detail for its world thanks to its novel form and it's a finished story but that doesn't make it "league better than Frieren".
@@Kratos_Sky Read El dorado arc bro... frieren demons are very unique and fantastic in there own way. While I agree mushoku tensei wins the world building part RN but it's a complete storyline. While frieren is still ongoing and but so far it have shown us immense potential with great characters and world-building specially the latter half of manga is just so good in terms of writing. Let's wait until both series gets wrapped then we'll decide which one was superior. Both series have different strengths and weakness but both are great in ther
Probably because it addresses many issues that are unknown to young people (who ultimately make up the majority of the audience). Furthermore, the moralism and decontextualization are terrible and those who hate the series exploit every little thing.
I watched Frieren in a binge after it'd concluded its run and it is truly a stunning anime. A lot of it comes from how... simple it is at its core. Let's take the characters and plot overall. All the characters in Frieren are named after their main trait with an appropriate german word for it. Frieren has a 'Freezing' personality. Fern has a 'distant' one. Start is Strong. Himmel is dead in 'Heaven', though I guess in life it could mean something like he was sent by the heavens as hero or had is head in the clouds, whatever, idk, what matters is that he's in the location they call Heaven, which is also his name's literal translation. The plot is ever so steadily leading us to the goal, the end in the land "Ende" (literally just 'End'). The only thing that makes Frieren unique is the angle it tackles the heroes journey from (as in retracing the steps of the journey), though I guess Isekai Ojisan does that too in a way... plus Frieren herself. It's rare to find such a good take on what it means to be what is effectively a timeless mage. And Mushoku Tensei on the other hand... Yeah, the characters make it. It's such a compelling story about characters and their development. From the opening sequence of season 2 part 2 I am so bracing myself for what totally left me wrecked when reading the LNs.I know Echidnut knows exactly what I mean, and I think people that have read the LNs will also know.... But something I've genuinely really liked about Mushoku Tensei is... everything feels so alive, even in the animation. There's effort put into even the background characters, like for the most part I would never call any of the scenes stiff ever. Though I will say I am not massively fond of season 2's openings being a repeatable sequence now. HOWEVER, the charm in the immersive openings in season 1 came from the fact that things were always happening in a way that you could... PROGRESS the worldbuilding via visual story telling alone. especially because there was a LOT of travel. Now that we're basically kept in one location though, I can excuse this choice because like... you can only really set the same scene so many times, I guess, especially since it's not like there's years passing between episodes, like in the first few where we stayed in Buena Village.
To be fair, and as a hardcore MT fan (with the amount of € i've spent on figures and the books), Frieren anime is better than MT. If you compare MT S1 and Frieren S1, they're very similar in quality but MT S2 sadly got slightly worse (especially the Counter Arrow arc). But if you compare the source materials as the LN for MT and the manga for Frieren, MT is way better. The sheer amount of things that are missing from the LN to understand the importance of certain situations, characters, character choices and reactions is simply enormous. How MT S2 treated Elinalise curse as only a little line of monologue from Rudeus is a good example. Frieren's anime doesn't miss things like that, as well as having a consistant quality throught all those 28 eps. But you're really annoying Echidnut, now I'd like a Fantasy Quartet of sorts with a meeting between Roxy-sama and Frieren, because of you... Which will certainly never happens.
Bruh, its not even close XD mushoku tensei is waaaaaay better in almost every way: -animation: on par (frirren slightly better, cuz friren and fern vs clone fight was fire) -story/plot: mushoku tensei is better i dont think i have to explain this -side characters: mushoku tensei’s are just way better they are more flashed out and deep -mc: rudeus is better, he is writen better (better growth/progression and development)
I have to disagree about the award based on the food scenes. That bread shot from M-T didn't really impress me; something about how the crust tears seems unnatural to me. But, those giant hamburger steaks from Frieren got my stomach growling every time I saw them. In fact, I'm hungry right now just thinking about them. 🥲
i love both rezero and mushoku tensei so much, they both feel very real to me in regards to character development and overall storytelling in regards to the psychological aspect. i just started watching this channel but ur takes on both are very similar to mine and im glad i found u
0:19 Wait, Frieren is also literally about Frieren's character growth, how she's learning to be more human and appreciate the people around her when she realizes she didn't spend enough time with Himmel (the GOAT), I will give you though that of the episodes that are out she does not grow as drastically as rudeus
I just wish that MT got the same behind the scenes love that Frieren got regarding the extra episodes and what I assume is a budget drop for MTs second season. I know the director left to go work on idol shows or something (for some reason), but I'm still a but sad about it. Or at least if they got the budget to do the world building/character focused in-world OPs for the second season that would have helped by adding 1.5 minutes to each MT episode. Could have let them cover stuff that got rushed or skipped, i.e. Rudy's house remodeling 2 weeks ago, or the full text of Paul's letter giving him a better idea of the situation with his sisters. Which would have freed up a little extra time to better showcase nanhoshi's breakdown or how it was affecting rudy That style of OP really immersed me and made me lose track of how much time was left in an ep, making them all seem like shorter episodes somehow
Im so glad someone else has caught on to the similarities of these two anime and not just their animation styles. Both are amazing and among some of my favorite fantasy anime.
Honestly, the one reason why a lot of people don't like Mushoku Tensei is Rudy and with his character, the main reason they don't like him is his mental age combined with his pervyness.
Mushouko is more relatable to more of us being in a character. While Freiren, is more inclined toward fantasy with more elaborate storytelling and characters. Both are good to me
I like MT better cuz it’s more ecchi and humorous, more in line with the anime I’m used to watching, but Frieren is amazing in its own right, it feels like a combination of To Your Eternity and Mushoku Tensei without the ecchi.
*[[ Pls read this took a while to write ]]* Another thing Mushoku Tensei did that was the amount of layers it had in setting the vibe and tone. Most anime ever do it very directly and not discretely at all. Not that that's a bad thing. But MT adds another layer to it by using the psychology of the watcher into it WHILE integrating it into Rudy's development. My favorite example of this is the Doldia village arc to the Orstead encounter. When Rudy gets captured, despite facing execution (not that they could if they tried but whatever), he's extremely light hearted about it. It feels like a game to him, and like a game it wrapped up neatly defeating the boss and saving the day. It made Rudy feel like he had plot armor, and HE himself felt like he had plot armor too. Then when he met Orstead, all that was ripped away in the most violent fashion. Ruijerd, who Rudy considered to be an invincible warrior screamed for them to run for their lives before getting destroyed himself. Rudy panicking as he saw his own chest cavity open up. Eris screaming and crying at the death of Rudy, the girl he promised to protect. Etc. It feels so desperately hopeless that it turns a knot in your stomach. And it's only able to do that to such an extent because throughout the show, it systematically gave you and Rudeus that security. A thing I noticed was way early on in the show, Rudeus having undergone little development treats his new life like a game. He thinks of it like a game. He makes references to his silent casting as "OP cheat skills" and shit like that. When he gets teleported, it feels to him like he's off on a side quest. Another reason it didn't even occur to him that other people got teleported. The Orstead encounter is the turning point that makes him realize "Holy fuck! This isn't a game, this is real. My actions have consequences." This is also the point at which he stops making comparisons to videogames. His new second life, the people he cares about, and situations that he can't wriggle out of. The gravity of these things becomes SO much more _real._ This only feels that way because they intentionally made it seem 'not real' to begin with. It's for this reason that I consider Mushoku Tensei the anime with the best writing of all time. They don't write for you and your eyes. *They write for your subconscious.* They make you feel things even you didn't know you were feeling until it's ripped away. Which sounds simple enough, but to imagine yourself as an oblivious spectator of the show so perfectly from a bird's eye view is just extraordinary.
My only complaint about MT is that Rudy is a pervert. You can literally replace it with him being an alcoholic and nothing would change. Instead of panties it could have been really expensive and old wine. His arcs we see in the anime would be the same too, these being, carefree doesn’t change besides not doing it as much since he’s focused on magic - becomes less of an alcoholic because of how rare and expensive it is in the demon continent and the fact that he has to focus on his survival - his fall back arc where he losses almost everything and he falls back into bad habits aka alcoholism - and finally his recovery arc which cerments him as a new person overcoming is addiction but may still drink time to time. He could have made the doll when he was balck out drunk too. Him being and alcoholic is also more relatable than being a pervert and the intro to the anime would be more bearable if it was him black out drunk and not attending his parents funeral is much better than him not attending it because he was jacking off
talking about tp2, this episode, although nothing changed in terms of the adventure, truly is a turning point. the entire first season they strart with this rudeus' view on the world like a game and he slightly starts to face reality on kidnapping episode and when the rookie adventurer died (and some other less impactful moments). on kidnapping episode he thinks what will happen if he dies again, later he watches someone die (because of him he feels like) and then on tp2, he actually (almost) dies. if not on nanahoshi's whim he wouldve truely died. also as you said the point of how powerful the team looked only to be trashed like that, the foreshadowing and explanations by man-god, the little fight with eris and ruijerd at the beginning which many people tend to forget about when he acknowledges her, the crazy good music and lastly the subtle attention to details and unexplained stuff that revolved around this encounter like when the bull jumped of a cliff. this episode was just amazing
You have my utmost respect for actually admitting the fact that Frieren doesn't have good characters. Other than most of the popularity biased youtubers who would've given the win to Frieren in default cause they fear their popularity might decrease otherwise. And about the soundtracks every one of them is generic fantasy soundtracks with no originality. The first opening was so irelevent with the anime that it made me mad sometimes. None of the openings or endings in frieren actually blends in with the anime itself. And for some reason (I can go into details if you want) I think the whole mage examination arc in Frieren was a total BS. It wasn't an examination of strength or skill rather it depended on luck which I find ridiculous and think every other shounen anime with examination arc did it better. Every one of em. And hence you are officially my most favorite anime TH-camr and an absolute king.
I agree hard with your comment. Frieren has high production value, but none of the heart and soul that Mushoku does. It's wild so many people think its a masterpiece in spite of the fairly bland characters, and somehow forgettable soundtrack (even though Evan Call did Violet Evergarden).
@@shironasama0445 Agreed. The high production value by studio Madhouse carried the whole anime literally. Nowadays just a bit of good animation is all it takes for people to rate something at least an 8. In my case I never consider animation to be any kind of determiner of a good show. Story, Narratives, Characters, World building, sometimes psychological aspects and character development are the main thing to look for when judging a show. And Frieren did nothing in those criteria which can be called out of the ordinary. It's way too blend and generic.
And imo MT had definitely a way better animation and fight scenes, way more dynamic. At least in the first season, the current one is much worse in this regard unfortunately.
Completely disagree on the exam arc. I think it was better than most exam arcs because it was to the point and didn't play out like other exam arcs. Also frieren characters while not mt level they get better and better especially if you read the manga.
Let's fucking goo! Mushoku Tensei on top! But to be real, both of the shows are really awesome and I honestly don't know which one I would give more oranges to. So I am glad someone did it for me :D Also I am glad to see another person who has read further into the story of MT. I don't have anything against the anime onlies, but it's refreshing to see someone who has more complete image of the story and and characters to be making videos about it
saying frieren is rhe same exact character as from 80 years ago you literally watched the show with your eyes closed and ears clogged, the whole point of the show is how she has changed, even the main goal of rwaching heaven is PROOF of her changing
@@Draconic_Incenerator it has changed, but to say it has changed "dramatically" is INSANE, she just always has that same neutral face on and she still doesnt really show much emotion or care about anything or anyone
As someone that has Frieren, Mushoku (and Re Zero) in my top 5 this was a great watch. Love the discussion. Cant wait for more of these two. Id love to see Made in Abyss content from you sometime. Its also peak.
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I can't place a comment??? Somehow reply works. Phones are odd.
I pray to panties every day
Doesnt derange and orange rhyme ?
in the end Re-Zero wins the cake with 25 oranges
.
Best Protagonist : Echidna
Best Fight Scene : Echidna drinks the bodily fluids
Best Soundtrack : Re:Zero S2 OST Echidna
Best Waifus : Echidna
Best Storytelling : Echidna (エキドナ) was the Witch of Greed. Mentioned throughout the series, particularly for her connection to Roswaal and Beatrice, she formally debuted in Arc 4 as a major supporting character and later secondary antagonist.
Best Animation : her jiggly お尻とおっぱい
Best OP : BRUH IT STARTS WITH HER AND ENDS WITH HER SMILE (Re:ZERO -Starting Life in Another World- Season 2)
Best Episode : EVER Episode had Echidna in it
Best Characters : Echidna ( you ask me why ?):
-Race :Human
-Gender :Female
-Age :19 (Castle of Dreams version)( Not illegal :D )
-Mid 20s (actual body) :400+ (soul)
-Hair Color :White
-Eye Color :Black (Iris) White (Pupil)
-Height :164 cm (5'5")
@@idunno_justbored.7838 nah youtube is broken
the "they both like chests" was clever
@Ytfku Hol Up, what do you mean by that🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
amazing chest ahead
Why ffrieren like songs
@@Durandal-vi5pv*shockingly large chest ahead*
a chest with a 1 percent legendary grimoire drop
This video was clearly just a disguise to conceal echidnut's love for oranges
I agree
i share his love for oranges but I'm still mad that he made me ruin a bag of grapes by putting them in the freezer. I couldn't eat them cause they were like rocks and when they thawed enough to eat they were mushy. DONT FALL FOR IT, IT'S ALL LIES
And what's not to love!
@@clashwithkeen you need to eat one like every 2 seconds to test if it’s thawed enough then you have 1 minute to eat the rest before they thaw more
And Mushoku Tensei.
I’m just glad I live in a world with both
Watch Delicious in dungeon, it's really good too, similarly good. By that I mean it has a lot of the same qualities that makes Frieren and Mushoku good af, but the anime is made by Studio Trigger. I've been enjoying it this season too.
@@kwebvin9939delete this comment you spoiled the most important plot twist
@@kwebvin9939 Is there an anime/movie/show that you really want to watch? Let me know so I can spoil it for you.
@@Gudiesthe most important plot twist _so far_
@@kwebvin9939it gets better yknow
YES! You're one of the only people that pointed out how MT's intros integrated into the scenery and how that made it so much better. I hope they start doing that again since that was one of my favorite parts about the show.
yeah with turning point 3 its a great occasion to do it again
@@xbgsheikiii3593 maybe next season idk, what I do know is that they gotta get on business with animation quality for that one
I hope they really do the season 1 openings again, it made the world feel so big and vibrant. With the new openings and story direction so far the world feels so small again.
its probably unlikely tho, cus a set intro sequence saves time in animating each episode. The reason for s1 having those integrated intros was likely the abundance of time given to produce s1 compared to the very little time to produce s2.
MT is a study in character development.
Fr
So is Frieren.
Not counting Denken as a waifu is a criminal act.
REAL
(I'm a man)
That's a man
Denken is a man's man dude ran out of mp and charged in swinging hands at people 3 times younger than himself. who doesn't like Denken.
@@Roeclean so?
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Roxy is best girl,
Here's an orange for you.
Roxy is the best waifu might be better rhymes with you
@@cpnsumthin True.
She is the worst out of them
Edit :-For me it's orstead> sylphy>eris>roxy
Roses are red
Please accept my pledge
When Eris comes into sight
I start to edge
And Frieren's the best Momma
“The orange is such a superior fruit that they named the color after it. And NOTHING rhymes with it.” God tier reference had me cackling outloud
"I took my orange 4-inch door-hinge out of storage then ate porridge with George"
@@GuacJohnson dick head you fuckin beat me to it
Not to mention the House of Orange is the Royalty of Holland.
@@GuacJohnsonliterally none of those were a perfect rhyme. there was not a single word other than orange with the exact ending of the -ore-inge ending sound
Should've just said syringe @@GuacJohnson
One orange to Frieren because I can actually recommend it to people. My sister and I bond over being fantasy nerds but there's no chance in hell I'm recommending Mushoku Tensei to her. Although orange to Mushoku Tensei for doing the shit that makes it impossible to recommend. It might make me uncomfortable with alot of wtf did I just read/watch moments but atleast it handles things in a unique way I've never seen before.
If it helps, I watched both Frieren and MT with my mom.
I agree with you here. Personally, I preferred Mushoku Tensei because of how massive of an impact it brought to my life. However, I can't really recommend this to my other friends, especially if they're new to this controversial topic.
Frieren, on the other hand, despite not having a large impact as MT, I happily shared and discussed this series with my other friends, even to those who doesn't watch anime
@@randyrandom3358what 💀
I agree
It's the same for me
Both me and my sister love anime
I recommended her frieren and told her it was my favorite fantasy anime
But in reality MT is my favorite
And not in a million years I will suggest MT to her
She knows about it but I have warned her like it was 'Berserk' and not 'MT'
Balls of f-ing tungsten @@randyrandom3358
Both shows feel very human to me and that's why I like them. The hate for Mushoku is from people who don't like seeing things that make them uncomfortable... which I 100% understand!!! Even I am like what the actual hell am I watching at times. There are just some great moments in the show like early s2 when he tried to kill himself in a split decision while depressed after realizing he just ruined things with sara by acting like an absolute fkn loser, that whole scene and arc was great and felt really human just seeing a whole relationship break like that in an instant.
in fact, Rudeus tried to kill himself not because of attitude, because. he never truly loved Sarah, but because he felt hated by both Sarah and the group with whom he spent a lot of time. That’s why he was amazed that in the end he was saved by the Soldier, who, in his opinion, on the contrary, hated him the most
just casually throw a spoiler in there for how an entire story arc ends..
@@Ghorda9 to be fair most people watching this video has watched mushoku already or absolutely HATES it with passion
I'm on the third group after finishing the novels 4 times already and I gotta say all thing considered that spoiler is... acceptable
@@user-zl1vf4me1p this video isn't spoilery itself and i don't see why any of the comments should be different
@@Ghorda9 fair
Bro just casually dropped one of the most sinister takes on oranges and acted like nothing happened. I FUCKING LOVE ORANGES. Also I hope Mushoku Tensei and Frieren get infinite seasons because of how peak they are
Thank you bro 😎
Infinite seasons sound good, but I'd prefer if we get to see the ending.
@@Sukenus real
Unfortunately Frieren s2 is up in the air. Madhouse isn’t known for making s2 and if they do it usually is sub par compared to season 1.
@@KhanMann66 The studio doesn't matter. It can change for season 2. With Frieren specifically, the main issue is we have to wait for more of the story to be released in the manga first.
I disagree with the take that Frieren doesn't change tbh. The entire point of Frieren is her making a conscious effort to appreciate the time she has more. Sure her development isn't quite as drastic as Rudeus's but she still very much consistently shows growth throughout the show. From her learning that the time she spends isn't just her own anymore, to her appreciating things because she's experiencing them with people she cares about even if its something she considers trivial or just how much Himmel has affected the way she sees and thinks now, the Frieren you meet at the start of the show is noticeably not the same Frieren you know by the end of the show.
Frieren definitely has changed. Her demeanor has probably not changed too much. But her attitude and empathy towards others developed immensely. Maybe the premise of Frieren being "after the hero's journey" may disorient some viewers, Frieren does definitely change, as seen with the time she spent with Fern.
Its so funny to me when she realizes Fern is growing anxious over wasting her life on some random unimportant whim Frieren has and she's like "okay fine, I'll only keep looking for 2 more years and then we can continue" lol
Especially clear in manga.
i like stories that focus on the main character so frieren journeys whatever didnt appeal to me that much literally couldn't get through the first episode
@@bluegate4630 man i also hate it when every character in a show is also just as compelling as the main character and feel like they also have their own unique story to tell in a world so full of life and intrigue. i hate it when characters except the main are all one dimensional tropes which only exist to further the main character’s development.
Echidnut is definitely low on funds these days.3 videos in a month? Insane !
@chickenofskilledvariety ikr we eating good
@@DaChickin-ic7mp I have a feeling he's gonna be p/humping a new video every episode of re zero s3.
Something I noticed after watching both animes is that Mushoku Tensei is deeper than it initially appears. What seems like a regular isekai anime actually takes us on a profound journey of a geek who gets a second chance at life. It made me think, "How would it be if this happened to me as well?" The characters in Mushoku Tensei are so unique that many viewers can relate to them. For example, Rudeus undergoes significant development over the years. You can see how he connects with this new world and learns to love-not just Sylphie, but also his family. The anime is special because of these meaningful and sentimental moments that permeate the story.
Until it turned into a trashy in-ses-t harem anime
@@rushindweeb4085ah yes because all the siblings of the land started the ancient cesty game
@@happygiyuu look up the greyrat family tree and you'll see how many of his kids marry their uncles and aunts
And even though it was removed due to how messed up it was, rudeus' sister aisha (early to mid 20s) seduced his son when he was around 12 and rudeus walks in on them doing the deed. After the whole family rejects their relationship they run away together and are found about two years later and she's pregnant with his kid...
@@rushindweeb4085 I guess my comment was a bit more truthful lol, Ik the spoiler of sun freaky incest shit.
Spoiler…
Aisha went to Ars because she saw Rudeus in him. And the reason she was after Rudeus is because Lilias dumbass basically said she had to serve Rudeus forever lol
I get whachu mean tho
@@happygiyuu that's why I said she seduced him
So yeah, your comment before was actually spot on xD
Frieren, it's unique in a way to show the character develepment, discovering her humanity is her journey, so is the viewers. Jobless is a cool anime about the shut-in who lives in another world, then builds his own new character influenced by his former life. To me it's Frieren, there is something about the way it is presented that the viewers will also wonder about their own existence. Makes you think more of what you need to value in life.
Valid take man. Hope you have a good life.
I think you really loosely watch Mushoku Tensei. Rudeus is not just builds his new character around his surrounding but lives in it. By that i mean he is changing as a human and as a person, all people he met, all events that happen to him and tragedies will occur to him is shaping him. By his character you starts to think about how important life is, how hard and cheerful it can be.
Frieren to me about journey and how sacred moments with people around you can be. Frieren is a special show in my heart.
I'm genuinely clicking the ad link because i appreciate your content so much lol. Idk what it is, but whether your personality or humor or maybe editing style, it feels like your content is imbued with such a unique flavor that i can only describe as being you, so human and personal, like something AI could never replicate. And i just have to say i respect you and how you do things so much. i remember the first time i saw one of your videos in the car after i left the gym and that unique feeling you give off i noticed then and i haven't stopped noticing since. Love your work, keep going. You have something not many on this site have. Thank You.
Holy shit bro thank you! Genuinely one of the best compliments I’ve ever received
@@Echidnut Haha You're welcome man, just thought you should know, im sure many others feel the same way about you and that's why they watch. you're a king 👑 I hope you appreciate yourself as much as your audience does. Keep killing it bro.
@@camilogallardo5262fax described what i’ve been wanting to say for years
How can you give them oranges and then say they didn't win anything of value? Shocking indeed
You're right, oranges are peak
If someone were to make an orange monopoly, they would have the power to control all the oranges in the world. That's seems very significant to me.
And also because oranges are one of the largest fruit consumed per year so you could technically control an entire nation with oranges as their biggest exports now you have reached into the realm of politics then you starts ruling the world by expanding your oranges empire and release an invasive specie of locust made in a lab in north korea to eradicate and make all the other fruits extinct so now you have oranges as the only fruit in the world which increases its demand after that you rule over the world because everyone will get scurvy without vitamin C sources from fruits now it's a global health issue so you start making oranges a new global currency and thus making you rule the world
One is about a very old elf
The another is about a man who was resurrected into a man
weird way to describe reincarnation lol
you forgot how to spell baby
@@gaat_chris4960 I don't think reincarnation is the fitting word either, despite everyone using it. You wouldn't get to keep your past life memories and personality after a reincarnation.
@@Sukenus Actually in the case of top Tibetan Holly figures they keep the memories or so it is claimed. And others claim past life memories as well. As the principle that some are reincarnated with memory over thousand years old it is a form of reincarnation (even if it is false it is part of the description)
I'll go farther there is no such thing as reincarnation and science had proven it in studying how the brain develops. You are your personality and memories once they are gone you died even if there is a spiritual connection to the follow on person you will never enjoy it.
But I did have to correct your impression of existing beliefs.
@@RedRocket4000 Yeah, you're right. I forgot that some ppl claim/believe to remember their past lives (or fragments of them). But I agree with the science part.
5:50 "Orsted..." killed me tho lol
Killed Rudy too
Dragon daddy is the best
@@Electroslavs He got better...
Dont forget Vita and Radar Reia, The Dragon Kingdom Emperor, 2 Dragon General
I really like how MT does its side characters and how many of them go about their own character devlopment, especially after they meet Rudeus. And even then, Rudeus isn't the only person who helps them change.
Sylphie
Before Rudeus: she was a timid, shy elf with no friends, being bullied and discriminated against due to her green hair.
After Rudeus: she became a highly skilled mage in her own right albeit too attached to Rudeus. However, after the Mana Disaster, she became more of her own person after meeting and becoming friends with Ariel & Luke.
Roxy
Before Rudeus: she was a Saint-class Water Mage who was very headstrong and ran away from her own parents & tribe. When she became a mage, she also ran away from her own teacher, Jenius.
After Rudeus: she became a King-class Water mage, and after meeting back with Nokopara (the horse demon dude), she finally reconciliated with her parents. (she will also eventually reconcile with Jenius, but that's a little bit later and was like a paragraph or so in passing)
Eris
Before Rudeus: she was a... violent beast of a child, who only looked up to her grandfather and Ghislaine and refused to better herself from various tutors.
After Rudeus: she was able to learn some basic education. She also became skilled thanks to the help of Ghislaine and Ruijerd's training, as well as adventuring with Rudeus & Ruijerd as Dead End. Though, she did leave him, that is until...
Ruijerd
Before Rudeus: he was a Superd living all alone in the Demon continent, finding no luck on how to repair the reputation of his people.
After Rudeus: he was finding hope for his people's reputation to be mended and even found himself being able to talk with other people, despite telling them he was a Superd.
Zanoba
Before Rudeus: he was just the 7th prince of Shirone, only caring about art, specifically statues/figurines, even seeing only other people as just dolls made of flesh.
After Rudeus: he started to care about other people, especially during his studies at Ranoa University and when he met and basically adopted Juliette.
Cliff
Before Rudeus: he was just a prideful boy boasting his Advanced-level magic skills, looking down on other people.
After Rudeus: he became more humbled over time, and was able to find love through Elinalise, which allowed him to care more for other people and be willing to help them.
And this is just only a handful of important characters so far
And the fact that you listed like 6 important characters and didn't cover any one of the characters I think are the best written characters IN mushoku tensei, just says it all.
Norn
Before Rudeus: not alive
After Rudeus: best girl
Jokes aside though she's genuinely great and I think it comes down to her being a "normal" person surrounded by legends. They could have done what most stories do and made her sympathetic in every way by making her the "ugly duckling" but instead there's nothing wrong with her and she doesn't really having any giant weakness compared to the average person. It's just that she doesn't get compared to average people and has to make her own path in a setting where she is disadvantaged. In fact her one strength above normal people would be her looks but that's a family trait and adds to the expectations of greatness she has to deal with.
Norn, imo, is the most well written character in the series. I mean, the author said it himself, that he had to chose another MC to write abt, he would pick Norn
@@quangtuantran7181 I wrote a comment talking about how the most recent episode was one of the best in the series even from the perspective of someone who finished the light novel it was extremely well done and made me like Norn even more than I did after reading the light novel. Man this is probably one of the most emotional seasons
Gosh dude the characters in Mushoku Tensei and the whole world is like watching an actual world, not just an anime. Like all the people that even have just a slight amount of influence play a role and even the side characters to a certain extent. All the characters in the show you think have no depth are likely well acquainted with some of the main characters/side characters and it feels like they’re genuinely real people (like Nokopara knowing Roxy and Zanoba’s perv brother being our introduction to Zanoba as a character) Every little thing is interconnected but it doesn’t get ahead of itself and stays within the boundaries that is reality and feels like it could have actually happened within the story/world that story is set in itself
I feel like Frieren should get an extra point for storytelling, purely because of how perfectly the flashbacks are integrated into the episodes. They say what they need to, they don't disrupt the overall pacing, they are well-paced within the flashbacks themselves, and they give insights into past relationships (especially for Frieren herself).
nah, world building in MT is also insanely good, there is a lot of history but that was not shown yet, only mentioned stuff like Laplace war. All that is going to be explained later and its going to blow your mind :)
I disagree. The flashbacks themselves are good, but they usually disrupt the scene they come in. Sometimes I almost forgot what was happening before them.
@@Sukenus You just have shit memory dawg no offense.
I actually think the flashbacks are one of the weakest aspects of Frieren. They're impactful at first, but they're far too frequent and lack any sort of subtlety, so after a certain point it just feels like emotional manipulation. The whole format of
>scenario
>flashback to very similar scenario in Himmel's party
>Frieren repeating verbatim what Himmel said to her in that scenario
gets tiring really quickly.
Yeah but then Mushoku Tensei should get an extra point for the turning point episodes. Having episodes with not only world changing events but events that change who's in the main cast, change the location and direction of the story. Not many stories can get you to love the characters and their stories and then basically drop them(for a time) and not have you missing what was dropped.
Even with the "Controversial" backstory of Rudeus, I still love both.
Yeah cause you like minors deep inside
I've yet to find a hater that knows about consent.
@@InevitableTruth. Because having an underaged girl give consent is better?
@@aquagamez1415 Well, teenagers do that all the time. Can you deny that?
Bro solved hours of debate by using oranges, bro has some intellect
And i thought it was only to see some minor panties
You have 100 likes I don't want to ruin it
I think saying Frieren has no character development is a bit shortsighted. Her character has developed a ton mainly due to her awareness of her problems. Rudy is much more of an outward fix. He has problems that manifest for everyone that isn't himself, thus the change is more obvious. Frieren's changes to me are geared toward those who are a bit older in life, particularly mid-to-late 20's. That unwillingness to change your ways after being shut in for years and living the way you always have until something forces you into an alternate way of thinking. Her ability to trust others, be open to them, and showcasing her emotions through actual words and physical reactions are incredibly difficult things to change about herself, yet as time continues for her within the new group, she beings to express these things without much hassle and sometimes even preemptively like how she did with setting up Stark and Ferns date. Rudy never really developed outside of the teenage mindset when he was in the normal world, so his perception of person-hood is locked to that point. His growth shows more because he can now experience the world outside of being an awkward and shunned person in society. So for me it's like he's picking up where he left off/dissociated from society.
that's crazy + not reading allat
Happy for u / Sorry that happened
^^^ "Hi, I just commented to let you know that I didnt read your comment" ^^^ bruh you guys are not only in an analysis video, you are also replying this rude ahh reply to a comment not specifically meant for you. Let me guess, you people used to copy homework and complain when you get low score?
@@Blu-ps5rq Im so sorry that happened! / Thats great!
@@dratini1247 get a life
11:10 this aged well…
Looks like landlord increased echidnuts rent
You've convinced me to switch from eating apples to oranges now, that was a good sell. You really should've taken that orange sponsorship
It’s funny seeing people argue against Mushoku Tensei when they haven’t even watched it and go off of what they read online/wiki.
I know… Its tiring trying to defend something so misunderstood
So true...
@@playermasterfun7334 bro....as someone who has read it....there is a demographic who finds who story relatable.
I am not part of the demographic, most regular people can't relate to the story. All my friends who do relate to the story, I can tell you are not regular people
@@noirekuroraigami2270 That makes sense. Mushoku tensei have always fulfilled the "You can be a better person" lesson but for people who did it to themselves rather than getting caught by a terrible situation.
@@noirekuroraigami2270 btw, funny pfp where you got it from?
I like mushoku tensei more, but Frieren is also a masterpiece. The problem is i can't recommend mushoku tensei to friends... for obvious reasons. No issues there for Frieren
Depends to what friends, i recommended to my best friend and she loved it, other friend hated it, so yeah
Better for yourself right?
I recommended to my friends they really liked it
They just watched and enjoyed it as a show
Because they know it's fiction bruh
you definitely can't recommend mushoku tensei to your feminist Friend
Well, yes, Frieren is a shonen so it's practically for everyone (except maybe the very young), but in any case I wouldn't call it a "masterpiece" given the insufficient world building and the concepts that are interesting but not taken into consideration adequately, furthermore the system magic is non-existent, and being a story that is 95% about magicians it would be important.
One of the biggest differences between the two is Frieren is post-adventure while Mushoku is essentially all settup for the real climax of that world, as it is said that Laplace is the big bad and wont be resurrecting for 80 years which is beyond Rudy's life time. He doesn't even get to fight the "Demon lord" while Frieren already beaten her's.
Beyond that, I will stand on my opinion that Mushoku has more relatable and human feeling characters and handles more day to day normal human emotional issues while Frieren handles fewer things in more impactful and thought provoking ways. Not to say there aren't certain things that Mushoku does better. I can acknowledge how well written and impactful the themes and situation in Frieren are (more so the manga), but the relatability of the themes and situations in Mushoku along with the grounded feeling you get from the best world building I've ever read just makes everything hit harder and more personally.
From the get go the two series establish they'll be handling very different topics. The thing holding Mushoku back is Rudeus in the anime lacking an internal monologue showing his confliction with the bad things he says and does. They could've written a less disgusting character but that would've taken away something pivotal from his development and the story itself. The 'if even this scumbag can find redemption, become better, and find happiness in life (though it may be a second one) why can't you?" narrative wouldn't be nearly as compelling.
I may be biased/unfair since I've finished Mushoku while Frieren is still releasing, but I don't think the world building is even remotely comparable.. the more I think about it the less sense it makes for it to be a tie, Mushoku wins that category easily. As you said, everything in Mushoku tensei is connected to eachother. It rewards you for remembering small details about the world in ways Frieren doesn't begin to compare to without contradicting itself. The depth, ties, flow of time, unchanging laws, fleshed out histories, overlapping plot threads, etc all done in a way to feel as natural as breathing is something that Frieren just hasn't matched up to, even in the latest major arcs in the manga.
There's ofc always the point of Frieren's side quests being super deep but they're essentially all tied back to something about Friren's party excluding a few that are expressly meant to show that the world doess't revolve around them. However, needing to include things to intentionally make it feel as though the world doesnt revolve around the Hero party, to me, is not a good thing. Mushoku has compelling side quests and back stories of its own without needing to add those occasional outliers to make a point. I could go on but I'd end up talking myself in circles since I'm not used to talking about this kind of thing with others.
In any case, I don't feel like Frieren's world building (amazing as it is in terms of vibes) matches up to Mushoku's deep and developing world. And no, I don't think Flamme's backstory chapters close the gap, similar things are handled much better often in Mushoku. Not to mention Rudy and his group basically are Flamme anyway. That just goes back to my initial point about them being Post vs. Pre "Demon Lord" stories. The 'pre' is forced to explain more, do more settup, etc that the 'post' can simply write off with a few words that may or may not be explained later.
@@RealBunnyWalker Excellent summary dude. Couldn't have said it better myself. MT is a truly special show
He did fight a demon lord tgh, sure not someone as strong as laplace but still he did fight 2 demon lords in his life time, but laplace isn"t even the last boss, he was just a mini boss in the end
@@kumasan9537wouldn’t that deserve a spoiler warning since the anime is only in its second season?
@@_Sloppyham kind of forgot to put it mm
Great video! That orange rant will stick in my head a long time!
I especially liked how you said MT’s characters felt like people because that puts my own feelings into words so well.
Frieren's scenario is way more unique and interesting. It's a fresh take on the long lived elf trope, and one that doesn't dwell on the sadness of seeing your loved ones dying (that's Serie's plot contribution) but instead shows how to move forward in life by learning from those mistakes. In contrast, a weeb redemption arc is a staple for isekais.
counter argument, mushoku was one of the first to do these stories(note i am not caliing it was the very first as i cant confirm this but it was definetly one of the first few), so dragging it down because others copied is a bit harsh imo
Don't really want to undermine your opinion, but I think you're not giving mushoku that much credit just because it's a redemption story. Do note that I don't just refer to mushoku on anime but also on the books. So while you may think my opinion is invalid now, it may make sense later in the next arc of mushoku.
Just as Frieren show how to move forward in life. Mushoku just hits differently. We see how rudeus in his past life is beyond redemption, given a chance to start again but with his trauma and personality, changing completely wasn't easy. Then life and God constantly shits on him. But still, with his flaws we journey with Rudeus and see how he matured since he was a child until he became a man ready to sacrifice everything just to protect what's important to him.
While I like Frieren, for me it's not on the level that made me feel when I watched and read mushoku. While being fantasy, mushoku just feels so real. The characters, the story, just wait for the next two arcs of mushoku. That's when I think it's at its peak. The pure suffering and reality Rudeus had still makes an impression for me till this day.
@@Timiboy Fair point.
Mushoku Tensei feels more real, but Frieren feels like a timeless and universal masterpiece.
huge +1
i think you underestimate the development of feelings by frieren. that's the whole point of the anime. she's sensitive, but distanced. mushoku has much stronger feelings developement, but it does not mean frieren's weak.
some people admire fighting sexual dysfunction, some prefer dwelling into one's inner self.
As a manga reader for Frieren , and a LN reader for MT. Frieren character's development is very few and spare. She just realized her love for Himmel and feeling for others people the entire story. Rudeus on the other hand, change so much even at the current Anime arc: from a pervert, to fighting his PTSD, to realized Eris is a person (ep 8), to realized people get killed when he messed up ( ep 11), to understand Paul, to love Eris, to heart broken, to try fixing his PP by assaulting the Beast girls, to fall in love with Sylphy and then be a husband....etc...
The character development of Rudeus is insane , I haven't see any Fiction that actually do so many facets of a person's life like MT.
@@nguyendi92 you missed my point completely.
didn't bother to read the answer, since i watched the video.
frieren has some character developement, not zero, that's my point.
@@Fish-ub3wn It don't really matter cuz MT wins either way 💀
@@AdynW here take your browney points
@@AdynW agreed.
Always look forward to your videos. They're rare, but they're my favorites of all of youtube.
Thank you bro! You deserve all the oranges
Oranges also have flammable skin! the oil in the skin is very flammable, if you squeeze the orange skin near a lighter, u get sparkles from the tiny tiny particles of it
So overpowered
I'm extremely biased about Frieren, so i will give you an orange because you made a video includes Frieren and then i will take it back because Frieren deserves more oranges.
That segue to the ad was great, I didn't even skip it. I love both, but I think Frieren might edge Mushoku just because it's a show I have 0 reservations recommending to people face to face. Whereas I've barely talked about Mushoku irl.
It's true, unlike Freeren, which is aimed at a larger audience, Mushoku is hard to recommend.
Despite its cult status and recognition, due to the controversial content, Mushoku Tensei was even afraid to be adapted into anime.
Therefore, the anime was released only in 2021, when other issekai like Konosuba and Re zero received anime much earlier, despite the fact that in 2012 Mushoku was more popular than them.
@@АлександрТерехов-ж3й Yes The very damaging to people and our culture denial that people have sexual thoughts because of religious belief that most don't even have is bad.
You just massively condemned Frieren as it continues to push the idea that normal people don't have frequent sexual thoughts and almost everyone has some very sexual thoughts that would be bad to act on.
The power of the taboo instinct once set is massive and violating can cause emotional damage ask almost all LGBQT+ raised in conservative condemning of LGBQT+ household. This is also a very good example of how Taboo can be totally illogical and harmful.
As authoritarian power is based on repression of sexual expression in part this a major reason authoritarians and those who want to oppress women the sexual nature of people and censoring nudity, sex and making women into sexual objects and making them cover there bodies is done.
Women have the most power, Democracy has the most power when nudity no a taboo, when sex not a taboo even for children seeing it, when young attractive women wear little to nothing women have more power and the society is more free, where what people call porn is very legal and uncensored people are free and women have power and respect.
As showing violence and not showing sexual things how cultures prepare the population to like war I say the popular saying of the Anti War movement during Vietnam. Make Love not War.
And thus sexual thoughts and characters who like to have sex are needed in stories. And children who do have sexual thoughts but in a child like way like in Spy Family and Dragon maid are also needed as we have reached historical highs in young people killing themselves and being unhappy. So the two centuries or so experiment of extending childhood is a partial failure. Might not want them starting families as soon as the girls can have babies with 3/4 of children not living plus needing army for next war that was required not an option back then, but at least all children and juvenile adults need to know them having sexual thoughts and feelings is normal that they are not abnormal and evil which most kids deep down must think they are in modern life.
@@RedRocket4000 bro your insane and you either gotta relax and deconstruct or seek help, not a fan of the alphabet community but they have no bearing on this conversation and this society is already hypersexual and doesn't need more than what it already is if you cant see that then I don't know what the to tell you.
The weird thing is that most characters in Moshoku Tensei show more emotion than the ones in Frieren, but Frieren still makes the audience show more emotion.
For now. As someone who's read ahead the thing that makes Mushoku Tensei special is time. They build up characters and make you care over time. Like he said in this video Paul is going to be a great example of this. He's the character that has made me realize how dumb it is that so many stories don't include parent characters. Anime is especially bad for this. Most main characters don't have parents only mentors.
@@CC-of5xl That's the main difference of the two shows. MT is developing over time (especially on the character department), while Frieren is a story after her peak in life already happened.
And regarding the parent thing, that can't be helped. Anime is dominated by the "shounen" genre, where the main target audience doesn't wanna hear about parents.
@@Sukenus except you also get a lot of development in frieren, it's just really subtle, the frieren you see as the end of the series is notably more expressive than she was at the start
Mushoku tensei season 1 has the best intros in fantasy anime history
No intro = Best intro (fr)
@@Pathetic-Ali If you are talking about openings, absolutely yes, openings are a budget saver and a waste of time, they will also be beautiful to look at but it is much better to use that time so as not to be forced to cut out beautiful speeches/reasonings.
Hard disagree about the characters in Frieren. There's a ton of character development from all of the main characters. Especially Frieren. The difference is that none of the characters in Frieren that we follow were absolutely AWFUL and slowly becoming better people. They still grow and change through their interactions with others as they learn about themselves and others. Frieren becomes more able to care about the small transient moments in life and not just take them and the people around her for granted. Fren slowly becomes actually more mature instead of just trying to be mature. Stark slowly gains confidence in himself and begins to overcome his childhood trauma. Sein is only in the story for a short time but overcomes his apathy and self destructive nature. We see a lot of change over the years for Heiter. The new characters introduced in the mage exam we don't see a lot of growth for most of them. But we get the first glimpse of things to come in future arcs for certain ones. Frieren's characters and character writing is it's strongest element. A character doesn't have to make a complete 180 from being absolutely awful and unbearable to become a decent human being in order for there to be character development.
Feel like people need to learn about the difference between character development vs character growth
Fern in the last episodes behaves much more like a child than in the beginning, ready to be offended by anything, while Stark, although he has changed a little, basically behaves almost the same. if anything progressed, it was the relationship between Stark and Fern
@@Aquakabijust to check, is character development about getting to know the character and their motivations, while growth about the character changing/maturing?
@@dhjijejd6980 if you watched it objectively you would notice fern and stark development..
yes fern still throws tantrum and stark still seems to be immature sometimes but that's normal, because that's what you would expect from a 18-19 y.o teenagers.. maturing but still somewhat childish.. like a sein said in episode 14 and 17
@@emirarfandani5655 As I said, I actually have no complaints about the specific development of relationships. it just seems strange to me that from the very beginning Fern looks like a girl who had to grow up early and who for most of the episodes behaves like an adult and rational, with each new episode she becomes more and more like a child, I understand that they are 18-19 but this is already that age at which they are usually not offended by touching with the expectation that they will receive sweets.
Comparing two god tier anime is wild
You right we should compare mushoku tensei to Chillin in another world with level two super cheat powers
@@DaChickin-ic7mp haha, that’s great.
How is MT godtier?🥴
@@akifyyy hey everyone has their own opinions… I just have faith that post ed arc the show will you know not have another ed arc haha
@@ashstolley yeah... opinions
Mushoku tensei is the greatest fantasy anime of all time for me. I've never gotten so damn hooked up on an anime. It's the first one that made me read the novel when s1 aired. Honestly, outrageously good
100% agree. If it wasn't for MT season one making me want to read the novels, i probably never would have got into reading light novels, i was up to like volume 16 before season 2 even started airing, and now i'm up to volume 23. I just read one or two books and then don't touch them for months lol. I don't want the story to end too quickly, or to have to wait for the next ones to release, which are the redundancy volumes at this point.
Hilarious video. The format was really fun. Your comments were not only consistently funny but made real points.
It's literally 9.99 vs 9.98. Both are insanely good and I honestly couldn't pick one over the other.
Mushoku for me, also Ruijerd and the Evil Dragon was FREAKING AWESOME
Ruijerd was the only S tier character in Mushoku Tensei
@@Trizzer89nah
@@Trizzer89Wait until season 3 bro
@@Trizzer89 Agreed. But Paul makes it to S tier further into the story.
@@ivandreuxzuev9473’im not his son, but he is my father’
The only interesting character in Mushoku Tensei is Poul. You can't take any of the female characters including children seriously when they get sexualized in every episode and any man in the series can sexually harass them with no consequences.
If you’re talking about Pax, the who sexually harassed Roxy, well he definitely gets some consequences later lol
@@Echidnutwell also Rudy, but Eris gave him the cleanest combo I've ever seen 2 seconds later.
Bro has not watched the anime
The introduction of mushoku tensei (first few episodes) are much more hype and meaningful than Frieren's. When I tried to begin Frieren's I had to forcefully sit there watching some boring parts without anything interesting going on for the whole time. Anyway that's just me
me too, but im gonna give it another try watching because my friends seem to like it very much
For me, a big flaw of Frieren is the lack of rules, currently the magic works a bit as the author wants, and when it works like this the viewer cannot predict what will happen (and not in a good way), in second place there 'it is the introduction of interesting concepts on paper but which are then not exploited or are even contradicted during the work.
Watching MT is not like watching an anime or an isekai trash
Its basically like watching a social experiment that takes a lifetime which answers the question of what will happen to a NEET when he is transferred to an organic world with magic. I guess that is the word *ORGANIC
its like the events and the people really do think on their own and develop as people and its kinda like "real life"😊
Realife women wouldn't treat you kindly after you kidnapped them and won't accept polygamy (even in a medieval society).
Mushoku Tensei is plagued with problems in regard of how it frames sexuality and women (let alone pedophilia).
@@nobrainnogame4320 I know present day women who accept polygamy lol
I also know of real life women who will always forgive you as long as they love you.
Its culture specific. In Islam for example if you can provide for more than one wife you can keep more than one wife. Keep on mind Greyrats are noble and even if Paul was estranged he is still provided by his family with a well paying job.
This indicates your lack of experiences with women or a tunnel vision perhaps of your own circumstances
FOLLOW UP:
i might have missed the "kidnap" part. Who was kidnapped in the story by her own husband to be? I am sorry I might have missed that.
@Pedophillia - besides Rudy's innate flaw of being attracted to lolis, his actions after reincarnation are age appropriate so to speak. Even if he had a memory of everything which eventually even Eris knows this but doesn't care. And why would she? They are living in a world with weirder events than reincarnated guys popping out
Maybe you lot are finding it weird understandable since they use adult Rudy as a monologue. Imagine if Rimiru was treated like that..it would also be weird. But all in all in this world he is 13 and Eris was older than her.
Your image of other people is affected by your own physical body. When you were second grade you see third graders as "bigger" kids. But surprisingly when you become a fourth grader you suddenly see the fourth graders as kids even if two years ago you saw them as bigger people. Its perspective and that is important. As you can see he was so dumb he did not even notice sylph was a girl and actually saw her as a boy.,, I don't think that is something a pedo will experience. He loved *lolis this is more of "Anime" lolis. he isn't much familiar to real life lolis like a child Sylph which he even saw as a boy. A real pedo would have been so turned on by a kid sylphie. But why wasn't Rudeus?
He touched Eris sure...but he saw her as a bigger girl since she is actually literally bigger and Older than he is lol
keep in mind he is reincarnated so he is no longer 34.
@@elcidgaming "I also know of real life women who will always forgive you as long as they love you."
But this is not the rule. And to be honest I hope these women one day realize that this kind of love is toxic. You can hear horror stories about serial killer's wives helping their husbands to commit crimes, this kind of relationship is not healthy at all. If you ask any girl in the street if she is fine with polygamy with the husband marrying multiples women, 99.999% of the case you'll get a sounding "No".
"In Islam for example if you can provide for more than one wife you can keep more than one wife"
Even in Muslim countries, polygamy isn't seen in favorable light nowdays (even a quick google search would have told you so).
"This indicates your lack of experiences with women or a tunnel vision perhaps of your own circumstances"
Keep your assumption for yourself and keep it cordial. Or should I judge you based on the fact that you like a show that sexualize children?
"i might have missed the "kidnap" part. Who was kidnapped in the story by her own husband to be? I am sorry I might have missed that."
S2 episode 7
"his actions after reincarnation are age appropriate so to speak."
Not really he has the memories and persona of his former life, the only thing that changed his is apparent age.
"Imagine if Rimiru was treated like that.."
Tensura for all its fault, at least never showcase Rimuru lusting after a 7 yo girl.
"Your image of other people is affected by your own physical body. When you were second grade you see third graders as "bigger" kids"
No, Rudeus doesn't behave like a child: Paul himself said that from his point of view, Rudeus was so precocious that he believe he is a genius. Quite the opposite since he did't hesitate to use his child appearance to manipulate his mother.
"A real pedo would have been so turned on by a kid sylphie. But why wasn't Rudeus?"
S1 episode 4: He intend to groom Sylphy to become his ideal wife. It's typical pedophile predator behaviour.
"He touched Eris sure...but he saw her as a bigger girl since she is actually literally bigger and Older than he is lol"
"keep in mind he is reincarnated so he is no longer 34."
S1 episode 4: Redeus admit himself that mentally he is a 40 yo scum. Don't even know you try to deny the canon.
But even all that would have been fine... if it was framed correctly and with the story addressing these problems. However the show never does so and neither does the Web/Light Novel.
The author himself, said that Rudeus never fix this aspect of his character.
So this lead to the question: what the point of all this child/women sexualization? Is it even relevant to the story? And what the meaning behind it?
After watching the ep fathers of mushoku tensei, I think that it deserves best ep
The biggest problem for me with Mushoku Tensei is that while the anime points out that Rudeus is a pervert and that this is something he has to correct, the story at no point condemns him for being an adult man with sexual attraction to children, and when he finally gets older the story just sweeps the whole situation under the rug.
(Yes, I know that "It's just fiction" and I'm not offended by it or anything, it just makes me uncomfortable when I have to actively ignore this part of the story in order to enjoy it)
Because he himself will have to find this strange, the world is not an artificial intelligence that will punish him randomly over time, he tries to change his attitudes and see that more than he really was he is disgusted but happy to change.
It's actually kind of ironic since in the future Rudeus will see this type of thing with another person (no spoilers) and he will be disgusted by it too
I do have to agree with how some of his perverted aspects are handled to be a negative part of it for me... We shift away from his negative behaviors, which is good, but narratively not always feel the weight of those negative aspects in the story itself prior.
@@raec5426 Well it's not like it's something alarming, he's kind of already learned it if you see him get beaten up and then suffer from ED by Eris
@@F3lipe-u8x Rudy being a pervert early on was more treated like a gag is what I mean, even Eris beating him up is more of a comedic tone for that gimmick before.
I didn't care for kidnapping beast girls episode in S2 pt 1 either after Rudy had some character development. He groped a girl to check his ED. But in narrative, the beast girls are just seen as getting the punishment they deserved, so nothing was seen as wrong by Rudy in the story. That was what made the beast girls respect him as their leader as a narrative reward. I liked him standing up to the girls in the school yard, but the other stuff after went too far imo.
I still like MT and Rudy overall, but I still have some areas to critique for some of those aspects.
@@raec5426 Well if it wasn't made as a comedy sometimes it would make things even worse at least he didn't go too far until she had consent and she become an adult.
I haven't seen Frieren yet but what i have seen from it it definitely rivals Mushoku in the anime department. Though idk if it can rival my love for the Mushoklu series as a whole.
Hard to say, you should give it a shot though. It's got a slow start but the world they weave hits even harder than MT by my account.
@@u-mos8820 Yeah I probably will at some point. The start just seems daunting because it gets so emotional so quickly qnd the themes it covers.
@@potatoadw9387idk if it's just me but Frieren isn't that sad, I mean it's sad enough to make me feel a bit down but never teary eyed
World building and grounded human problems, point to MT.
Family friendly, deep philosophical questions and a slowly paced adventure, point to SnF.
Animation, music and design, point to both.
@@potatoadw9387 I've read the source material for both series and I think for now it's a tie. I think mushoku tensei RN is a bit superior due it being way longer than frieren. But frieren also have immense potential and both series gives such a pure fantasy vibe. Also best parts of frieren isn't even animated yet much like mushoku tensei. It's going be a interesting rivalry for the next few years
Frieren has got that Lord of the Rings vibes with the generally wholesome Christian vibe (for the most part) and themes of hope, growth, journey, friendship, love, and time. It paints a picturesque and dreamy illustration of a fantasy world, the typical Classical Romanticism found in Sir Tolkien's works (and by extension, that of Sir Lewis and Narnia) as well. The world is beautiful and magical. The people, the towns and kingdoms. Light and hope prevailed in the end, good will always win. But struggle and growth and journey lies ahead, and in between. And with loss comes love, with memories of the past comes realization of the future.
Mushoku Tensei has got that Game of Thrones vibe, a more realistic take on the medieval-esque world of swords and magic, presenting a message of redemption from a degenerate, miserable and aimless life, finding meaning in growth and genuine character development from the encounters and experiences Rudy faced along the way. It still tells a story of growth and journey, of friendship and love, of memories and realizations, of time, but of course it is never afraid and never shys away from Just like how Martin wrote Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) and his other works complete with the honest-to-history messed up stuff, including but not limited to incest, sex, lots of depraved sex, family kills family, nobility being dicks and fucked up people, etc. Basically the people of Rudeus' world. While Frieren is this majestic chaste elf mirroring the angel-mages of Illuvatar (Gandalf and Saruman), Elinalise is a completely flawed and absolutely depraved elf whore who probably has the same traits as basically anyone from GoT. And yet she was redeemed (?..more or less, I guess, poor Cliff but I guess people have their own preferences). People in MT are real, and they can be cruel and disgusting just like that, but people are still good in the end. A cruel and dark picture of reality is prominent at first, but in the end, beauty and goodness still prevails. There is still happiness and messages of redemption and growth to be seen, and in the end our MC wins. He grows, becomes a better person, and the peoples and situations he experience changes with him. The world is still magical.
Look, Mushoku tensei has many more similarities with The Lord of the Rings than with Game of Thrones, at least as regards the construction of the world and the importance of the various characters and their stories, you mentioned Elinalise, to give the same example I can say that she has a story that is probably more complex and interesting than that of all of Frieren's characters combined, but this is true of almost all the characters that are introduced.
That was one heck of an intro to the sponsor LOL
Liked.
The funniest and most entertaining anime youtuber out there. Keep up the good work
Rudy is supposed to be disgusted .. in the beginning..
he will always be
I keep hearing this, but it’s a lie, because he gets everything he wants and doesn’t really change, it just becomes more accepted when the kids he’s preying on grow up.
@@bonfist7277 What kids he's preying on the fuck you talking about 🤨
that's factually untrue. Not only does his bad points, at least those worthy of disgust, never go away, but he's rewarded FOR them. Like, it's not even "how come he is a protagonist even though he has x flaw", the author actively reward him for being an absolute piece of shit and straight up pedophile
The problem is that the story expects us to ignore the big Elephant in the room:
He's a grown man being sexually attracted to children! No character development or trauma justifies this
Mushoku tensei wins low diff just because of the novel. It was so good it changed my life. If just the anime then mushoku still wins because of the better character design and development (and waifus) and because frieren is still only one season. However, it’s very close.
Your jokes are always on point, i'm always happy when you upload.
I read ahead in the light novel so spoilers ahead:
=======================================
Mushoku Tensei's characters feel more like growing people because of the cause and effect oriented story telling that its author went for. Events that happen, are going to happen, and are thwarted from happening all affect how the characters change in an extremely dynamic fashion. I think this style of story telling really defines just how richly designed each and every character feels and genuinely is and really goes to show the author's level of both story crafting and character writing. Each and every character likely has a massive 'web' of how they are, how they could be, and how they will be based off of events that may or may not happen in their futures and pasts. Think of it as if every character in the story had Subaru's Re: Zero web but instead of dying, they just have many many branching possibilities and developments depending on what exact events unfold in the story.
no one should compare these animes mushoku tensei is better overall i dont care what yall frieren stans gotta say yall have never watched a good anime
JJK pfp says enough.
Funny how you talk about never watching a good anime as if season 2 of MT isn't mediocre at best.
@@UndeadMerchant atleast its not an anime where i fall asleep in a minute in the first ep
atleast frieren isnt a pedo
at least frieren isn't a pedo
*2 Figure Age Gap*
lil bro got read like an open book by Echidnut
bro doesn't know about the age gap between her and Himmel
@@kromysol2189 Do y'all really not understand what pedo actually means?
@@kromysol2189at least they’re both consenting adults 😂
I just like Mushoku Tensei a lot more than i like Frieren.
Reason being similar to how you feel about Echidna and Roxy. I remember one video where you said that if you've met Roxy first, your TH-cam profile would probably be her.
That's how I felt about Mushoku Tensei.
huh, I don't usually disagree but Frieren has better characters. Frieren's characters might not be the best thing about the show as you said, and MT's characters are interesting. However MT seems to lean heavier on tropes and things that are specifically anime situation that take away from the characters realistic appeal. Frieren's world feels more realistic and less like a video game, and that give credence to the characters cause they deal with more realistic problems. I love both, but Frieren takes the cake hands down for me.
MT has road bumps that you find out are roller coaster swoops but the initial impact is still like a road bump. Frieren just has a slow-ish start, prbly not slower than MT's.
I find it weird that people think mt characters are more realistic. From how I see it mt has better characters in an anime context but it’s Frieren character that feel more human.
I'll get even more specific than that cause I Love what you said and feel the same way. MT characters act realistic in their own unique way, that mirrors reality, but feels very anime. Frieren is more like how people would act in a fantasy world if no one was an iskeki'd character.
I feel like story wise mushoku tensei I’m biased since they have a massive details for the world having all the characters having their own depth
mushoku tensei’s first op feels nostalgic like spice and wolf’s first opening. just the best
I can agree with everything except the world building because Mushoku tensei WB is a league above frieren with the amount of detail in every region and how they have their own language and when they interact with each other it feel real that something i couldn't see the author of frieren handle very well.
Yeah, they went OVERBOARD with the language. I think they made 3 fantasy languages just for MT, Human God, Demon God and... Best God maybe? i don't remember
I somewhat agree that Mushoku Tensei has more detail in lore and world building, but skimming through it all it kinda just becomes extra flavour for what is essentially also standard fantasy underneath. The different races there are essentially just humans with horns or longer ears.
Frieren while surface level and skimmed through most of it, it's take on its fantasy races is pretty exciting from the logical take on the elves emotions to the unique take on Demon as "evil races" being essentially apex predators with human level intelligence.
I've started watching both at the same time, so the comparison is pretty fresh but I'm impressed by Frieren abit more.
@@snimon5824 I don't agree with you at all, especially in the part about the race I don't see how Frieren has a unique take on the demon being evil with human-level intelligence isn't that like every other fantasy out there.
well let's go for the Mushoku Tensei part about races I will only talk about demons races we have the Migurd race they have a unique look with a 200 hundred life span and have Their special ability is to communicate with their kind via telepathy then we have the superd race they have pale skin, green hair, and red gem (third eye) on their forehead that allows them to detect living beings and the flow of mana and They are born with a forked tail, which hardens and falls off to become their trident spear as they grow up and lastly, we have The Immortal Demon Race are descendants of the First Demon God. Males have jet-black skin and six arms while females only have two arms. Their most prominent traits are their Demon Eyes and immortality that allows them to regenerate after their bodies are destroyed.
I can go on about various races and their ways of life, aspirations, and distinct unique skills that pass down from generation to generation, etc., so I'm not sure how they merely resemble humans with horns and large ears.
@@Kratos_Sky
You miss the part where I said "apex predator".
Tho I didn't quite explain, so imagine a cat or tuatara lizard. Solitary predatory animals but imagine giving them human level of intelligence but still having its base instincts.
In a nutshell, they are an entire race of amoral psychopaths that hunt humanoid races through aggressive mimicry. Mostly solitary but form loose gangs, only really got together and organised because of the Demon King. They're not really evil as predator animal hunting its prey wouldn't be considered evil.
Your Mushoku Tensei race examples don't really show them having any different mindsets to humans, hence just humans with horns or humans with longer ears. (Tho the beast folk animal behaviours are somewhat interesting) It works for the subversion of "we're not so different/humans are the real demons", it's culturally different but human culture are already diverse.
Not that there's anything wrong with this, but it's soo many fiction already done this already. Mushoku Tensei is really just Dragon Quest, Elder Scrolls or Warcraft but with more anime tropes with its cat girls and demon lolis.
Mushoku Tensei's advantage is that it has more detail for its world thanks to its novel form and it's a finished story but that doesn't make it "league better than Frieren".
@@Kratos_Sky Read El dorado arc bro... frieren demons are very unique and fantastic in there own way. While I agree mushoku tensei wins the world building part RN but it's a complete storyline. While frieren is still ongoing and but so far it have shown us immense potential with great characters and world-building specially the latter half of manga is just so good in terms of writing. Let's wait until both series gets wrapped then we'll decide which one was superior. Both series have different strengths and weakness but both are great in ther
mushoku tensei is a great show , s2 17 was the best ep . I wonder why people hate that anime
Probably because it addresses many issues that are unknown to young people (who ultimately make up the majority of the audience). Furthermore, the moralism and decontextualization are terrible and those who hate the series exploit every little thing.
11:20 genuinely caught me off-guard, my boy ruijerd got done wrong 😭
Mushoku Tensei has more depth .
I watched Frieren in a binge after it'd concluded its run and it is truly a stunning anime. A lot of it comes from how... simple it is at its core.
Let's take the characters and plot overall. All the characters in Frieren are named after their main trait with an appropriate german word for it. Frieren has a 'Freezing' personality. Fern has a 'distant' one. Start is Strong. Himmel is dead in 'Heaven', though I guess in life it could mean something like he was sent by the heavens as hero or had is head in the clouds, whatever, idk, what matters is that he's in the location they call Heaven, which is also his name's literal translation.
The plot is ever so steadily leading us to the goal, the end in the land "Ende" (literally just 'End').
The only thing that makes Frieren unique is the angle it tackles the heroes journey from (as in retracing the steps of the journey), though I guess Isekai Ojisan does that too in a way... plus Frieren herself. It's rare to find such a good take on what it means to be what is effectively a timeless mage.
And Mushoku Tensei on the other hand... Yeah, the characters make it. It's such a compelling story about characters and their development. From the opening sequence of season 2 part 2 I am so bracing myself for what totally left me wrecked when reading the LNs.I know Echidnut knows exactly what I mean, and I think people that have read the LNs will also know....
But something I've genuinely really liked about Mushoku Tensei is... everything feels so alive, even in the animation. There's effort put into even the background characters, like for the most part I would never call any of the scenes stiff ever.
Though I will say I am not massively fond of season 2's openings being a repeatable sequence now. HOWEVER, the charm in the immersive openings in season 1 came from the fact that things were always happening in a way that you could... PROGRESS the worldbuilding via visual story telling alone. especially because there was a LOT of travel. Now that we're basically kept in one location though, I can excuse this choice because like... you can only really set the same scene so many times, I guess, especially since it's not like there's years passing between episodes, like in the first few where we stayed in Buena Village.
Another masterpiece video from Echidnut.
To be fair, and as a hardcore MT fan (with the amount of € i've spent on figures and the books), Frieren anime is better than MT. If you compare MT S1 and Frieren S1, they're very similar in quality but MT S2 sadly got slightly worse (especially the Counter Arrow arc). But if you compare the source materials as the LN for MT and the manga for Frieren, MT is way better. The sheer amount of things that are missing from the LN to understand the importance of certain situations, characters, character choices and reactions is simply enormous. How MT S2 treated Elinalise curse as only a little line of monologue from Rudeus is a good example. Frieren's anime doesn't miss things like that, as well as having a consistant quality throught all those 28 eps.
But you're really annoying Echidnut, now I'd like a Fantasy Quartet of sorts with a meeting between Roxy-sama and Frieren, because of you... Which will certainly never happens.
Not to mention, both main characters go through the same arc of living out second chances
These two series is a breath of fresh air, I love it. You get a different kind of immersion with these two animation.
Both had amazing story telling, animations, arts, plots, etc.
Bruh, its not even close XD mushoku tensei is waaaaaay better in almost every way:
-animation: on par (frirren slightly better, cuz friren and fern vs clone fight was fire)
-story/plot: mushoku tensei is better i dont think i have to explain this
-side characters: mushoku tensei’s are just way better they are more flashed out and deep
-mc: rudeus is better, he is writen better (better growth/progression and development)
The only thing I got out of this is that I got convinced that oranges are better than apples.
I have to disagree about the award based on the food scenes. That bread shot from M-T didn't really impress me; something about how the crust tears seems unnatural to me. But, those giant hamburger steaks from Frieren got my stomach growling every time I saw them. In fact, I'm hungry right now just thinking about them. 🥲
Yeah, the stickiness of the bread was pretty on point, but the first half of the animation feels like something being unwrapped more than torn
4:40 Oranges are better than trophies. Plus you can eat them, plant the seeds and eat them again. Also oranges are much better for the environment.
i love both rezero and mushoku tensei so much, they both feel very real to me in regards to character development and overall storytelling in regards to the psychological aspect. i just started watching this channel but ur takes on both are very similar to mine and im glad i found u
0:19 Wait, Frieren is also literally about Frieren's character growth, how she's learning to be more human and appreciate the people around her when she realizes she didn't spend enough time with Himmel (the GOAT), I will give you though that of the episodes that are out she does not grow as drastically as rudeus
Having caught up to the manga like a month ago, tbh she hasn’t really grown much at all
Should have waited for the best fight scene. Ep 22 of Mushoku is a masterpiece
agreed, rip daddy though
I just wish that MT got the same behind the scenes love that Frieren got regarding the extra episodes and what I assume is a budget drop for MTs second season. I know the director left to go work on idol shows or something (for some reason), but I'm still a but sad about it. Or at least if they got the budget to do the world building/character focused in-world OPs for the second season that would have helped by adding 1.5 minutes to each MT episode. Could have let them cover stuff that got rushed or skipped, i.e. Rudy's house remodeling 2 weeks ago, or the full text of Paul's letter giving him a better idea of the situation with his sisters. Which would have freed up a little extra time to better showcase nanhoshi's breakdown or how it was affecting rudy
That style of OP really immersed me and made me lose track of how much time was left in an ep, making them all seem like shorter episodes somehow
The director was sent to work on onimai which is finished so i hope he will come back to do season 3 justice(massive coping)
Im so glad someone else has caught on to the similarities of these two anime and not just their animation styles. Both are amazing and among some of my favorite fantasy anime.
Honestly, the one reason why a lot of people don't like Mushoku Tensei is Rudy and with his character, the main reason they don't like him is his mental age combined with his pervyness.
Those people aren't adult enough to have conversation
People act like two legends cannot coexist
Finally someone said the absolute truth. oranges are better than apples, always.
Bro was 4 steps ahead of us with the orange vs apple analogy lol. What is losing anyway if both are peak.
Mushouko is more relatable to more of us being in a character. While Freiren, is more inclined toward fantasy with more elaborate storytelling and characters. Both are good to me
I like MT better cuz it’s more ecchi and humorous, more in line with the anime I’m used to watching, but Frieren is amazing in its own right, it feels like a combination of To Your Eternity and Mushoku Tensei without the ecchi.
echidnut is a modern day socrates 🙏
*[[ Pls read this took a while to write ]]*
Another thing Mushoku Tensei did that was the amount of layers it had in setting the vibe and tone. Most anime ever do it very directly and not discretely at all. Not that that's a bad thing. But MT adds another layer to it by using the psychology of the watcher into it WHILE integrating it into Rudy's development. My favorite example of this is the Doldia village arc to the Orstead encounter. When Rudy gets captured, despite facing execution (not that they could if they tried but whatever), he's extremely light hearted about it. It feels like a game to him, and like a game it wrapped up neatly defeating the boss and saving the day. It made Rudy feel like he had plot armor, and HE himself felt like he had plot armor too.
Then when he met Orstead, all that was ripped away in the most violent fashion. Ruijerd, who Rudy considered to be an invincible warrior screamed for them to run for their lives before getting destroyed himself. Rudy panicking as he saw his own chest cavity open up. Eris screaming and crying at the death of Rudy, the girl he promised to protect. Etc. It feels so desperately hopeless that it turns a knot in your stomach. And it's only able to do that to such an extent because throughout the show, it systematically gave you and Rudeus that security.
A thing I noticed was way early on in the show, Rudeus having undergone little development treats his new life like a game. He thinks of it like a game. He makes references to his silent casting as "OP cheat skills" and shit like that. When he gets teleported, it feels to him like he's off on a side quest. Another reason it didn't even occur to him that other people got teleported. The Orstead encounter is the turning point that makes him realize "Holy fuck! This isn't a game, this is real. My actions have consequences." This is also the point at which he stops making comparisons to videogames. His new second life, the people he cares about, and situations that he can't wriggle out of. The gravity of these things becomes SO much more _real._ This only feels that way because they intentionally made it seem 'not real' to begin with.
It's for this reason that I consider Mushoku Tensei the anime with the best writing of all time. They don't write for you and your eyes. *They write for your subconscious.* They make you feel things even you didn't know you were feeling until it's ripped away. Which sounds simple enough, but to imagine yourself as an oblivious spectator of the show so perfectly from a bird's eye view is just extraordinary.
My only complaint about MT is that Rudy is a pervert. You can literally replace it with him being an alcoholic and nothing would change.
Instead of panties it could have been really expensive and old wine. His arcs we see in the anime would be the same too, these being, carefree doesn’t change besides not doing it as much since he’s focused on magic - becomes less of an alcoholic because of how rare and expensive it is in the demon continent and the fact that he has to focus on his survival - his fall back arc where he losses almost everything and he falls back into bad habits aka alcoholism - and finally his recovery arc which cerments him as a new person overcoming is addiction but may still drink time to time.
He could have made the doll when he was balck out drunk too. Him being and alcoholic is also more relatable than being a pervert and the intro to the anime would be more bearable if it was him black out drunk and not attending his parents funeral is much better than him not attending it because he was jacking off
talking about tp2, this episode, although nothing changed in terms of the adventure, truly is a turning point. the entire first season they strart with this rudeus' view on the world like a game and he slightly starts to face reality on kidnapping episode and when the rookie adventurer died (and some other less impactful moments). on kidnapping episode he thinks what will happen if he dies again, later he watches someone die (because of him he feels like) and then on tp2, he actually (almost) dies. if not on nanahoshi's whim he wouldve truely died. also as you said the point of how powerful the team looked only to be trashed like that, the foreshadowing and explanations by man-god, the little fight with eris and ruijerd at the beginning which many people tend to forget about when he acknowledges her, the crazy good music and lastly the subtle attention to details and unexplained stuff that revolved around this encounter like when the bull jumped of a cliff. this episode was just amazing
You have my utmost respect for actually admitting the fact that Frieren doesn't have good characters. Other than most of the popularity biased youtubers who would've given the win to Frieren in default cause they fear their popularity might decrease otherwise. And about the soundtracks every one of them is generic fantasy soundtracks with no originality. The first opening was so irelevent with the anime that it made me mad sometimes. None of the openings or endings in frieren actually blends in with the anime itself. And for some reason (I can go into details if you want) I think the whole mage examination arc in Frieren was a total BS. It wasn't an examination of strength or skill rather it depended on luck which I find ridiculous and think every other shounen anime with examination arc did it better. Every one of em.
And hence you are officially my most favorite anime TH-camr and an absolute king.
Based
I agree hard with your comment. Frieren has high production value, but none of the heart and soul that Mushoku does. It's wild so many people think its a masterpiece in spite of the fairly bland characters, and somehow forgettable soundtrack (even though Evan Call did Violet Evergarden).
@@shironasama0445 Agreed. The high production value by studio Madhouse carried the whole anime literally. Nowadays just a bit of good animation is all it takes for people to rate something at least an 8. In my case I never consider animation to be any kind of determiner of a good show.
Story, Narratives, Characters, World building, sometimes psychological aspects and character development are the main thing to look for when judging a show.
And Frieren did nothing in those criteria which can be called out of the ordinary. It's way too blend and generic.
And imo MT had definitely a way better animation and fight scenes, way more dynamic. At least in the first season, the current one is much worse in this regard unfortunately.
Completely disagree on the exam arc. I think it was better than most exam arcs because it was to the point and didn't play out like other exam arcs. Also frieren characters while not mt level they get better and better especially if you read the manga.
Let's fucking goo! Mushoku Tensei on top!
But to be real, both of the shows are really awesome and I honestly don't know which one I would give more oranges to. So I am glad someone did it for me :D
Also I am glad to see another person who has read further into the story of MT. I don't have anything against the anime onlies, but it's refreshing to see someone who has more complete image of the story and and characters to be making videos about it
Good video, however,
Himmel.
+5 oranges
Paul +10 oranges he's basically what if Jamie Lannister was in Himmel's position.
You already got my with the Orange quote... Take your fk like
saying frieren is rhe same exact character as from 80 years ago you literally watched the show with your eyes closed and ears clogged, the whole point of the show is how she has changed, even the main goal of rwaching heaven is PROOF of her changing
Yep.
Frieren might not "look" different but her personality has changed dramatically since her time in the Hero's party.
@@Draconic_Incenerator it has changed, but to say it has changed "dramatically" is INSANE, she just always has that same neutral face on and she still doesnt really show much emotion or care about anything or anyone
@@earthcakeplays2905 Then you havent read/watched the series.
Mushoku tensei is better ofc
As someone that has Frieren, Mushoku (and Re Zero) in my top 5 this was a great watch.
Love the discussion. Cant wait for more of these two.
Id love to see Made in Abyss content from you sometime. Its also peak.
When characters feel like people, you know its gonna be a good ride.