Dan here. Thanks to the hosts for taking my case and thanks to those in the comments for your thoughtful replies! We're currently looking into a 2015 Leaf, but open to other options. I'll hang up and listen.
I enjoy these presentations. Listening to these makes me realize there are lots of details and "tricks" that a buyer needs to know to avoid being disappointed. I'm thinking of things like the updates needed on a Tesla to charge on CCS1, the larger battery Model S having the best charging, how to check estimated remaining battery life . . . You might be able to put together an entire series with just a collection of those tips. Just a tip from me.
Not sure the best place to post this question. Ask8ng for my son to see if we can oeep him in an electric vehicle. My son is looking to replace his MDX, he has also owned a Tesla. He is leaning towards a smaller car like a rav4 with alot of range for the price. He said he wants to be able to travel into the mountains. He wants something with the range and price of a rav4. He said an ev with the range of a rav4 is way too pricy. He won't have the Tesla any more, is there anything electric that could meet his needs? He didn't like the ride or size of the model 3 and its range was not great. But he did like the Tesla charging network, but is concerned the station will get filled up with all the non Tesla vehicles. We live in Utah. What are your thoughts. Are there any options for him? Should it be a PHEV?
You have to be careful with the federal credit for used EVs, the income limit for the buyer is much, much lower than the income limit for the federal credit for new EVs.
One thing that I keep asking myself: When a company adopts NACS, what are the prospects of their existing cars gaining access to the network? Will that be a thing, or are there hardware changes necessary (beyond the adapter) that would prevent it?
Depending on the battery health, a Chevy Volt could check quite a few of those boxes for the $12k vehicle. When my battery was in good shape, I'd get 30+ miles of range in the winter. After 11 years and over 100k miles, the battery was still getting 20+ miles in the winter. The 2016 and newer models have the bigger batteries, but those usually cost $16-20k, so likely out of price range and might as well go full-EV with a Bolt at that price. I like that the Volt is an EV first, but understand if someone doesn't want to go the hybrid route.
Dom, maybe not where you live but in CA our Leaf Plus would charge @78kW with good speed to 90% SOC. Far faster than Bolt in terms of miles added per hour.
I don't think there's any AWD options for Dan in that price range. However, for ~$10k, you can get a BMW i3 REx which is fun and funky, hasn't really shown any real battery degradation unlike the Leaf afaik, re-code the ECU to euro spec allowing you to run the Range Extender as you please which might be useful in winter, no rust/corrosion to worry about, surprisingly spacious interior, large DIY/Aftermarket community for it. You can add carplay to it for ~$500 last I checked, pretty sure a lot of them were optioned for heated seats/steering wheel as well. Wouldn't really worry about REx reliability personally, most of the issues with it are well documented and DIY-able, and if the REx fails or something happens where you don't decide to fix it, the car will still function like a normal EV. And it has CCS (optional on '14, standard on 15+ iirc) Another option would be a 2015 Volt. They're great cars in general, but I recommend a 2015 because the early Gen 2 Volts have had some issues and if you can even find one for 10k, it's going to be old enough or high mileage enough to be out of warranty. Gen 1's have been holding up pretty good but they're getting older (They revised the cell chemistry I believe twice during its production run). I would at least get one newer than 2013, the pre-2013's have had some battery issues as they've been aging I would personally avoid the B-Class because they're rare, and I'll disagree with Tom about the warranty situation. Federal warranty is 8yr/100k, which a lot of B-Classes are out of at this point. It's 10yr/150k if the vehicle was originally sold in a CARB state and is currently registered in a CARB state, which Wisconsin isn't. Even if you were in a CARB state and could take advantage of that warranty, who knows how long it'll take for your dealer to get ahold of the parts if it breaks, because I certainly don't think they'd have them stocked or available locally
Tom, please cite a law in the USA about auto manufacturers requirement to maintain parts inventory. I can't find any and some people on other message boards say there are none and this is a myth.
If available in your area, I would recommend a used 2019 - 2020 Kia Niro EV. Prices are more reasonable than a new EV or used Tesla MY or M3. Good range and room.
For Dan's family, there is also the Ford Focus Electric. The 2016 models can support CarPlay/Android Auto with a software update (via the USB port). Starting in the 2017 model year, they started to support CarPlay/Android by default, but those models might be out of your price range.
Liz - keep the LEAF, great for the dogs and you're not worrying too much about dog hair and all that stuff with it. It fits your current needs almost all the time. For big trips, just park the LEAF and rent a Model Y or similar to give yourself a bit of fun while road tripping. When you return, reliable LEAF is ready for your daily needs. Dan - you're a perfect case for a used LEAF or maybe other previous compliance cars like Fiat 500e, Kia Soul EV. You'll likely find them in your price range and they offer a lot without any major maintenance issues and like Greg stated, nothing beats a good pair of snow tires and living in Vermont my entire life, have never had a 4WD or AWD vehicle, you'll find tires are much more important than the extra cost and lower efficiency of 4WD/AWD vehicles.
For Liz, something that wasn't mentioned, is the Battery degradation. The LEAF has to go before it degrades greatly. Kona, Niro EVs, Nissan Aryas, all great options
Tom nice comment about chademo being around for years. That is correct. My city 900,000 is still installing new dc chargers with chademo and Hampton did with Francis energy chargers. Same with ccs it is here for a long time no matter what Kyle or max say . Kyle is. Smart on the insides of a charger but needs to think more factual before giving his bias on chademo. I am going to look up how many Colorado still has since max and others don’t seem to know they are there
great episode! We sold our 2016 Chevy Spark EV last year because Chevy said they stopped making that battery pack and would not be able to have replacements, are you sure about that law Tom?
Hi guys! For Liv I wonder if the hatch on the Model Y is a nice shape for dogs. It seems like it may not be. It seems like the Ioniq 5 hatch is a better shape. Low miles SEL and new about $40k to $43k here. I think the EV5 will be less and available in a couple years. The shape of it looks great for dogs! For Dan I would think about 2wd and good winter tires. IMO Tires are more important than AWD for slippery situations. Leaf still seems good to me. You guys are all over it! Nice video!
Depends on the dog... our dog is 80lbs and tall, he hates it back there... so he rides up front in my leaf whenever he needs to go somewhere (only time my wife will drive the leaf). Our neighbors smaller dogs don't have a problem with their Y
Depends on size of dog and how you want to travel with them (kennel, loose, or leashed). Model Y has as almost as much cargo volume as our Explorer, but it’s not a boxy shape. I would be fine with it for our smaller dogs.
Chevy Equinox! Where is the car? GM said spring of 2023. Now it fall of 2023 and no Equinox a few Blazers that's it. Stop with the stupid Hummers and make affordable EV's. Cancel the Bolt and reinstate it, but with a one to two year delay with the new Bolt. GM promises a lot and doesn't deliver.
GM is all talk. Other than the Bolt, what EV have they massed produced? Now with the strike, I doubt it we will see any of their EVs in volume until 2025 or 2026.
This new segment is great! Tom, you said you have an EX30 “on order”. I’ve had a reservation in since June - did you get the email to actually place an order? If so then I hope I get that email soon.
Lol an AWD EV under 12k 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 ... I'd love one like that ... but without AWD, look for a Kia EV soul, they are right around 12k and had an original 100 mile range so are slightly better than the leaf, two neighbors have a Kia ev soul and I have a leaf... they made the better choice
Honestly, what cars are in that price range? I’ve only seen i3, which isn’t bad for that price? Smart car, Fiat 500e, Spark EV, Focus EV, IMEV… out of all of those the i3 or maybe a Chevy Volt would be the best options under 10k.
@@ALRinaldi leafs all day long... Old leafs at least, my ex sister in law was considering a leaf for her daughter to get to school as they were only 6k for a 2015 ... Which is exactly what I have
HI. THE 3 MOST IMPORTANT RULES TO REMEMBER WHEN BUYING A USED GERMAN CAR : 1) NEVER BUY A USED GERMAN CAR; 2) NEVER BUY A USED GERMAN CAR; 3) NEVER, EVER BUY A USED GERMAN CAR!! THEY'LL BREAK YOUR HEART AND YOUR WALLET!! THAT GOES FOR GAS, DIESEL, ELECTRIC, OR PLUTONIUM POWERED MODELS!!
Dan here. Thanks to the hosts for taking my case and thanks to those in the comments for your thoughtful replies! We're currently looking into a 2015 Leaf, but open to other options. I'll hang up and listen.
You’re welcome! The viewer comments have been way better than our suggestions 😁
I enjoy these presentations. Listening to these makes me realize there are lots of details and "tricks" that a buyer needs to know to avoid being disappointed. I'm thinking of things like the updates needed on a Tesla to charge on CCS1, the larger battery Model S having the best charging, how to check estimated remaining battery life . . . You might be able to put together an entire series with just a collection of those tips. Just a tip from me.
love this concept guys, fun to hear the banter as well as all the og nuggets of ev info!! ~ Roger
Thanks Fellas!
Fun TH-cam channel. Thank you
Tom is correct about narrow tires in the snow.
Love this car buyer guide series, keep these coming!
As always Great job guys!!
Not sure the best place to post this question. Ask8ng for my son to see if we can oeep him in an electric vehicle. My son is looking to replace his MDX, he has also owned a Tesla. He is leaning towards a smaller car like a rav4 with alot of range for the price. He said he wants to be able to travel into the mountains. He wants something with the range and price of a rav4. He said an ev with the range of a rav4 is way too pricy. He won't have the Tesla any more, is there anything electric that could meet his needs? He didn't like the ride or size of the model 3 and its range was not great. But he did like the Tesla charging network, but is concerned the station will get filled up with all the non Tesla vehicles. We live in Utah. What are your thoughts. Are there any options for him? Should it be a PHEV?
Forgot to mention the Used EV tax credit for Dan's case! If he can get the full $4000 that would really open up some more possibilities.
You have to be careful with the federal credit for used EVs, the income limit for the buyer is much, much lower than the income limit for the federal credit for new EVs.
One thing that I keep asking myself: When a company adopts NACS, what are the prospects of their existing cars gaining access to the network? Will that be a thing, or are there hardware changes necessary (beyond the adapter) that would prevent it?
We got our BMW i3 4 years ago for 11k😊
Depending on the battery health, a Chevy Volt could check quite a few of those boxes for the $12k vehicle. When my battery was in good shape, I'd get 30+ miles of range in the winter. After 11 years and over 100k miles, the battery was still getting 20+ miles in the winter. The 2016 and newer models have the bigger batteries, but those usually cost $16-20k, so likely out of price range and might as well go full-EV with a Bolt at that price.
I like that the Volt is an EV first, but understand if someone doesn't want to go the hybrid route.
Dom, maybe not where you live but in CA our Leaf Plus would charge @78kW with good speed to 90% SOC. Far faster than Bolt in terms of miles added per hour.
I don't think there's any AWD options for Dan in that price range.
However, for ~$10k, you can get a BMW i3 REx which is fun and funky, hasn't really shown any real battery degradation unlike the Leaf afaik, re-code the ECU to euro spec allowing you to run the Range Extender as you please which might be useful in winter, no rust/corrosion to worry about, surprisingly spacious interior, large DIY/Aftermarket community for it. You can add carplay to it for ~$500 last I checked, pretty sure a lot of them were optioned for heated seats/steering wheel as well. Wouldn't really worry about REx reliability personally, most of the issues with it are well documented and DIY-able, and if the REx fails or something happens where you don't decide to fix it, the car will still function like a normal EV. And it has CCS (optional on '14, standard on 15+ iirc)
Another option would be a 2015 Volt. They're great cars in general, but I recommend a 2015 because the early Gen 2 Volts have had some issues and if you can even find one for 10k, it's going to be old enough or high mileage enough to be out of warranty. Gen 1's have been holding up pretty good but they're getting older (They revised the cell chemistry I believe twice during its production run). I would at least get one newer than 2013, the pre-2013's have had some battery issues as they've been aging
I would personally avoid the B-Class because they're rare, and I'll disagree with Tom about the warranty situation. Federal warranty is 8yr/100k, which a lot of B-Classes are out of at this point. It's 10yr/150k if the vehicle was originally sold in a CARB state and is currently registered in a CARB state, which Wisconsin isn't. Even if you were in a CARB state and could take advantage of that warranty, who knows how long it'll take for your dealer to get ahold of the parts if it breaks, because I certainly don't think they'd have them stocked or available locally
Donner pass between Sacramento and Truckee is a 7000' climb. Need some range
Early model used bolts can be had under 15k. With the used ev tax credit? Could be a deal. Also why not the volt?
This is very reminiscent of the old "Car Talk" show on NPR. Love the concept.
Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers.
Tom, please cite a law in the USA about auto manufacturers requirement to maintain parts inventory. I can't find any and some people on other message boards say there are none and this is a myth.
If available in your area, I would recommend a used 2019 - 2020 Kia Niro EV. Prices are more reasonable than a new EV or used Tesla MY or M3. Good range and room.
I’m finding used bolts low mileage around 8k
Guy no 3 is little bit off for 12k with Awd
For Dan's family, there is also the Ford Focus Electric. The 2016 models can support CarPlay/Android Auto with a software update (via the USB port). Starting in the 2017 model year, they started to support CarPlay/Android by default, but those models might be out of your price range.
Liz - keep the LEAF, great for the dogs and you're not worrying too much about dog hair and all that stuff with it. It fits your current needs almost all the time. For big trips, just park the LEAF and rent a Model Y or similar to give yourself a bit of fun while road tripping. When you return, reliable LEAF is ready for your daily needs.
Dan - you're a perfect case for a used LEAF or maybe other previous compliance cars like Fiat 500e, Kia Soul EV. You'll likely find them in your price range and they offer a lot without any major maintenance issues and like Greg stated, nothing beats a good pair of snow tires and living in Vermont my entire life, have never had a 4WD or AWD vehicle, you'll find tires are much more important than the extra cost and lower efficiency of 4WD/AWD vehicles.
Later model i3’s are a good deal too if you use snow tires (RWD). 2017+
Liz, how about a Chevy Bolt?
For Liz, something that wasn't mentioned, is the Battery degradation. The LEAF has to go before it degrades greatly. Kona, Niro EVs, Nissan Aryas, all great options
He could get the base Model 3 with the LFP battery!
Soul EV for Dan? Fits four well.
Tom nice comment about chademo being around for years. That is correct. My city 900,000 is still installing new dc chargers with chademo and Hampton did with Francis energy chargers. Same with ccs it is here for a long time no matter what Kyle or max say . Kyle is. Smart on the insides of a charger but needs to think more factual before giving his bias on chademo. I am going to look up how many Colorado still has since max and others don’t seem to know they are there
great episode! We sold our 2016 Chevy Spark EV last year because Chevy said they stopped making that battery pack and would not be able to have replacements, are you sure about that law Tom?
Actually, I may be incorrect. Now that I'm looking into that it seems like that's not the federal law that I thought it was!
Hi guys!
For Liv I wonder if the hatch on the Model Y is a nice shape for dogs. It seems like it may not be. It seems like the Ioniq 5 hatch is a better shape. Low miles SEL and new about $40k to $43k here. I think the EV5 will be less and available in a couple years. The shape of it looks great for dogs!
For Dan I would think about 2wd and good winter tires. IMO Tires are more important than AWD for slippery situations. Leaf still seems good to me. You guys are all over it!
Nice video!
Depends on the dog... our dog is 80lbs and tall, he hates it back there... so he rides up front in my leaf whenever he needs to go somewhere (only time my wife will drive the leaf). Our neighbors smaller dogs don't have a problem with their Y
Liv mentions the Model Y being good for her situation, but she's looking for something more affordable.
Depends on size of dog and how you want to travel with them (kennel, loose, or leashed). Model Y has as almost as much cargo volume as our Explorer, but it’s not a boxy shape. I would be fine with it for our smaller dogs.
Haven’t some existing stations been swapping their chademo for an additional nacs?
Chevy Equinox! Where is the car? GM said spring of 2023. Now it fall of 2023 and no Equinox a few Blazers that's it. Stop with the stupid Hummers and make affordable EV's. Cancel the Bolt and reinstate it, but with a one to two year delay with the new Bolt. GM promises a lot and doesn't deliver.
Never get one at 30k
Maybe 40
GM is all talk. Other than the Bolt, what EV have they massed produced? Now with the strike, I doubt it we will see any of their EVs in volume until 2025 or 2026.
B Class uses Tesla Drive Units. Not a bad deal for that if you don’t need DCFC… but you can get CHADEMO added to it.
Model 3 RWD is a great value and I love taking road trips on it
This new segment is great! Tom, you said you have an EX30 “on order”. I’ve had a reservation in since June - did you get the email to actually place an order? If so then I hope I get that email soon.
Audi Etron will be cheaper and all the luxury
Lol an AWD EV under 12k 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 ... I'd love one like that ... but without AWD, look for a Kia EV soul, they are right around 12k and had an original 100 mile range so are slightly better than the leaf, two neighbors have a Kia ev soul and I have a leaf... they made the better choice
Honestly, what cars are in that price range? I’ve only seen i3, which isn’t bad for that price? Smart car, Fiat 500e, Spark EV, Focus EV, IMEV… out of all of those the i3 or maybe a Chevy Volt would be the best options under 10k.
I see a few under 10k in 500 miles of me, but you’d have to get in touch with the dealership to verify the battery and DCFC capability
@@ALRinaldi leafs all day long... Old leafs at least, my ex sister in law was considering a leaf for her daughter to get to school as they were only 6k for a 2015 ... Which is exactly what I have
HI. THE 3 MOST IMPORTANT RULES TO REMEMBER WHEN BUYING A USED GERMAN CAR : 1) NEVER BUY A USED GERMAN CAR; 2) NEVER BUY A USED GERMAN CAR; 3) NEVER, EVER BUY A USED GERMAN CAR!! THEY'LL BREAK YOUR HEART AND YOUR WALLET!! THAT GOES FOR GAS, DIESEL, ELECTRIC, OR PLUTONIUM POWERED MODELS!!