I have to say that I watch many videos on youtube and by far yours are always top notch, and the best source of information for all shooters. Keep it up sir!
This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. I’ve been a Strelok guy for years and always stole wind info from buddy’s with kestrels and finally got one myself. Great video as usual Ray!
At least a kestrel wont ping the eyes in the sky as long as the bluetooth is turned off,,,, At least we hope so.. Not like a Iphone which pings even when completely off..
This was the absolute BEST video I've seen explaining this ANYWHERE and even though I somehow figured out the BC method accidentally myself, you just verified that my thinking was on point for once lol... Love all your videos but this made my night!!! Thank you
Fantastic explanation of the airo jump! Always useful information declared in an easy and understandable way. Thanks a lot for spending so much time in sharing best practices 👌👍🤝
Enjoyed the explanation in this video. Well thought out and concise. No frills just straight info that works. Look forward to shooting with you sometime soon.
Great information. Since I have gotten interested in precision rimfire rifles and methods. You have been my goto for knowledge. Keep up the great work!
Yes on the excellent aero jump explanation. I knew that it affected elevation POI, but never really understand why/how. The rest was of course great as well.
He didn't explain "how", he gave a mnemonic to remember which way it works. The reason no one bothers with "how" is because it's really difficult, even knowing how it works, to actually figure out which direction it works. The "how" is this: "The gyroscopic spin moment of the projectile causes the bullet nose to suddenly point up or down depending on the cross wind direction, making the projectile jump in the vertical direction." That is how, but knowing that, you still don't really know which way the nose of the bullet is going to point when hit by the wind, so it's kind of pointless knowing "how", it's way easier to just remember the mnemonic "the bullet climbs the wind". Hope that helps.
I love that description of AJ, certainly easy to remember, but if anyone is serious about the physics going on, they should be aware that it's not how it actually works (in fact, aerodynamically, it would be the opposite: a curve ball for example, builds up pressure on the side its rolling into, this additional pressure forces it away, just the opposite of this description. IIRC Bryan Litz said it has more to do with the crosswind causing gyroscope precession in the spinning bullet which causes the nose to point slightly up or down, depending if it's a right or left cross wind, which causes it to "float" or "sink"). But it's a good way to remember which way is which.
Looked it up: Hornady says "The gyroscopic spin moment of the projectile causes the bullet nose to suddenly point up or down depending on the cross wind direction, making the projectile jump in the vertical direction." Also, long bullets are more sensitive than short bullets.
So you get this range card set up at your local range on a non-windy day. What are you now doing day of the match at the match zero where you only have a 50 yd target? Are you just doing environmentals and direction of fire per stage? No chrono day of or anything else? Awesome video! Still trying to figure this out. You are a big help.
I ran a shoot this winter and there was over a 20+ degree temperature change morning to afternoon and there was a 2 MOA impact shift up as the temperature increased.
Thanks for this. Followed your instructions and all worked out really well today. On unrelated note, what rings system was used to mount the scope on the CZ? Thx.
Hey Ray. Great video I never heard of aerodynamic jump. After watching your video, I went back to strelok Pro and I did find a toggle switch on the settings page for vertical deflection of crosswind. Which I believe is the same as AJ. Right ? How can I get in touch with You I would love to spend five minutes to pick your brain on a few questions
Great content. It's like listening to the oracle. "Well - that's just how it is." OK - can't argue with that. You've got a radio voice. Radio? What's that?
Great video. I retired coaching a HS rifle team after 18 years at Sacred Hearts Academy in Honolulu. 10 meter CMP and ISSF. I just started shooting air rifle (FX stuff). Can the principles you spoke of be applied to pellets and slugs, and, does Kestrel calculate BC's? MZ is 900-1020 f/sec in .217 and 25 cal.
Thank you for putting together such an in-depth video. I have a question. At approx 23:00 in the video the Kestrel was wrong and you had to manually correct it? If that’s the case why not just shoot and write it down with a pen and paper. I’m sure I am missing something. Thank you for the education.
After you've added multiple MV temps in the AB app and transferred them to the Kestrel, do you need to change the muzzle velocity to the current conditions for the profile being used or does the Kestrel already take the MV data table and make the correction.
Great video thanks. I have one question. I zero at fifty yards, at whatever temp and my kestrel will not say zero. It always says up or down a little. Just seems like if I tell it my zero yards in certain weather conditions that distance should be zero elevation.
If you tweak you muzzle velocity to make your dope line up, how do you deal with temperature related muzzle velocity changes? I only tweak DSF and use the temp table in the kestrel.
Darn you are going fast for a foreigner - lol - just a thought about the attachment of the magnetospeed - additional weight - harmonics? Possibly not the best ?
I feel the same. 22 is cheap: I'd throw the magneto speed on, fire a magazine's worth to get my speeds, and then take it off to collect my other data. It is a neat idea for more expensive rounds (338, 384, 50BMG) where you wouldn't want to fire a dozen rounds into the dirt just to get speed, but with those bigger rounds, I'm wondering if the harmonics would be even more of a factor than on a little 22.
Getting MV I only care about bullet speed if the point of impact is off slightly with the Magnetospeed it’s really no big deal. It comes off after I get 5 or so velocities. Or am I missing something I should be aware of?
Ray, could you do these same steps except in 25 yard increments and calibrate the muzzle velocity at 125 or 150 and then calibrate your DSF’s in 25 yard increments after that to get more precise data. Is that too small of increments and won’t make that much of a difference? Do you have to calibrate your muzzle velocity at 200 yards?
Hey Josh, yes you could. Some people actually prefer 150 yd MV zero. However, your Kestrel will only hold so many DSF points. So it depends on how far out you to go.
Yes: 22LR match ammo is subsonic, and peaks at 120 decibels, so, though it's on the upper end of what you want to subject yourself to...with Noise Exposure, there is a time component to the exposure: for example, you can tolerate 85dB for 8 hours with no I'll effects, so 120dB for fractions of a second shouldn't put you over. If you're shooting a match where you are shooting hundreds of rounds and those around you will be shooting hundreds more, I'd certainly recommend ear pro, (especially since I suffer tinnitus myself, not related to shooting, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone) but if you're only shooting a dozen or two, it should be fine.
Not sure when you might have done your last update. I just checked mine on the Kestrel all and I have Eley, Lapua, CCI etc under the .224 diameter profiles.
I had the same issue with Kestral Hornady 40DOF. Go to Gun Profile Management, the hit the”gear” icon, on the Profile Type it will say “Hornady”. Click that and it will say/ask Changing Profile Types will disconnect your Kestrel Ap, hit “Change Profile Type”. It will now say “Applied Ballistics”. Enter all your data, save and then reconnect the Kestrel. It will flip back to “Hornady” profile but the data is there and it works.
Am I the only one who has no 22LR bullets in the Kestral LINK Balistics app? When I follow the instructions, there are only .224 bullets from Barnes, Berger, Hornady, Sierra, Nosler for typical 5.56 bullets. No 22LR bullets. App is up to date.
@@XRING thanks, I had to switch to Applied Ballistics for the profile (it’s the Hornady 40DOF Kestrel), update the bullet library with a “xcx-match” data (or something like that, I didn’t understand why I’d want someone else’s profiles) but they finally showed up under 0.224. Thanks!
On A.J. Applying Bernoulli's Principle. Where the velocity is the Greatest the Pressure is the least. As the bullet spins (like your drill you put to the post.) The Velocity of the Air from the Right increases the pressure on the bottom and lifts the bullet (because air speed is slower on the bottom). Or decreases the pressure on the top, so the bullet lifts. (Think Airplane wing.) And in my little testing at 224 Yards on a Gusty day, saw the bullet move UP and to the left when the Gust came from the Right. It was an odd day and my wind flags would change directions, when the wind was from the Left the bullet would move LOW and to the right. So I had to not only compensate for Side force but up or down. Has anyone else noticed this?
This is something that’s always bothered me too. The muzzle velocity that gets ‘calculated’ always seems to be higher than what you actually MEASURED. If it was changing or calculating the velocity at the distance of the target and inputting that into a table I’d understand since we are not actually measuring that with our chrono, but it never seems to be the way it is done, and even still it’s usually higher than the mv…not lower.
50 yard zero is great, but not if you don’t understand why. 100 yard zero is “better” because you have to dial less to get out to 200 yards and beyond.
The 100 yd zero is commonly used for centerfire prs because it is where the near and far zero meet (you will have to hold high at every point beyond 100yds). 50ys is roughly where the near and far zero meet for .22lr (my guess) which is why it is used. Not to mention you can't dial down with a zero stop but can always dial up.
@stevewort Not sure I understand your question exactly. However, every rifle has two zeros,so if you’re looking through your line of sight (scope), the bullet starts below your line of sight crosses in an upward path goes to its maximum ordinate and then crosses your line of sight again therefore you have two zeros. A near zero and a far zero. The most common example of this is if you zero your AR 15 or rifle like that at 50 yards it will cross your line of sight again somewhere around the 200 yard mark. There are your two zeros, 50 for near 200 for far.👍🏼
I have to say that I watch many videos on youtube and by far yours are always top notch, and the best source of information for all shooters. Keep it up sir!
Wow, thank you! 👍🏼
The drill was such a good way of explaining aj
This is exactly what I’ve been looking for. I’ve been a Strelok guy for years and always stole wind info from buddy’s with kestrels and finally got one myself.
Great video as usual Ray!
Thank you Ray for that .22 LR specific video. I was one of the many who requested that with the Kestrel. You always do a phenomenal job.
At least a kestrel wont ping the eyes in the sky as long as the bluetooth is turned off,,,, At least we hope so.. Not like a Iphone which pings even when completely off..
This is the best video I have ever watched on this subject. Thank you.
This was the absolute BEST video I've seen explaining this ANYWHERE and even though I somehow figured out the BC method accidentally myself, you just verified that my thinking was on point for once lol... Love all your videos but this made my night!!! Thank you
My pleasure ! Thanks for watching.
Actually Strelok Pro does adjust for aerodynamic jump if you choose the option in the settings. Strelock also allows trueing based on actual data
Fantastic explanation of the airo jump!
Always useful information declared in an easy and understandable way.
Thanks a lot for spending so much time in sharing best practices 👌👍🤝
Aero
Great teacher, great instruction, nicely done!
Enjoyed the explanation in this video. Well thought out and concise. No frills just straight info that works. Look forward to shooting with you sometime soon.
Thank you
Ash from Scotland 🏴
Great information. Since I have gotten interested in precision rimfire rifles and methods. You have been my goto for knowledge. Keep up the great work!
Thank you Vic and thanks for watching the channel.
Great video. I took Chris Simmon's class and we covered both these methods in the class. Really helped with the extended range shooting data.
Thanks, been asking somebody to do this video for so long.
Thanks again for going over basics!
Thanks for the great video Ray. Have a good weekend sir.
Great video. Clear explanation.
Thank you X-Ring.
Awesome info Ray. Thank you!
GReat video!!! Just picked up a kestrel . Game Changer!!
Love seeing that Gen 12 on the table! My favorite shotgun!
Great video. Getting my rimx data at clinton house today and this is extremely helpful.
Another great video 👏
That made things pretty clear thanks for the explanation.
What an education thank you GREAT video.
Great explanation Ray. Thank you!
“Select” is what I was missing, thank you
Great info as always.
Great video. Thanks man! I only have Strelok Pro. Will have to save up for that Kestrel AB.
Another great video body , very hood way to describe.
Never heard of AJ but it makes perfect sense.
Great video, hopefully this gets shooters on the right track to success!
Thanks for keeping it real...Great job on content.
Thanks Mac. 👍🏼
Great stuff as always....
Yes on the excellent aero jump explanation. I knew that it affected elevation POI, but never really understand why/how. The rest was of course great as well.
He didn't explain "how", he gave a mnemonic to remember which way it works. The reason no one bothers with "how" is because it's really difficult, even knowing how it works, to actually figure out which direction it works.
The "how" is this: "The gyroscopic spin moment of the projectile causes the bullet nose to suddenly point up or down depending on the cross wind direction, making the projectile jump in the vertical direction."
That is how, but knowing that, you still don't really know which way the nose of the bullet is going to point when hit by the wind, so it's kind of pointless knowing "how", it's way easier to just remember the mnemonic "the bullet climbs the wind". Hope that helps.
Thought I recognized that long range bay! Whole range is a good place to play!
Great info Ray
Thank you kindly ❤
I love that description of AJ, certainly easy to remember, but if anyone is serious about the physics going on, they should be aware that it's not how it actually works (in fact, aerodynamically, it would be the opposite: a curve ball for example, builds up pressure on the side its rolling into, this additional pressure forces it away, just the opposite of this description. IIRC Bryan Litz said it has more to do with the crosswind causing gyroscope precession in the spinning bullet which causes the nose to point slightly up or down, depending if it's a right or left cross wind, which causes it to "float" or "sink"). But it's a good way to remember which way is which.
Looked it up: Hornady says
"The gyroscopic spin moment of the projectile causes the bullet nose to suddenly point up or down depending on the cross wind direction, making the projectile jump in the vertical direction."
Also, long bullets are more sensitive than short bullets.
Great video and info thanks
So you get this range card set up at your local range on a non-windy day. What are you now doing day of the match at the match zero where you only have a 50 yd target? Are you just doing environmentals and direction of fire per stage? No chrono day of or anything else? Awesome video! Still trying to figure this out. You are a big help.
I ran a shoot this winter and there was over a 20+ degree temperature change morning to afternoon and there was a 2 MOA impact shift up as the temperature increased.
Awesome video, really appreciate the information. Off topic question: any plans to review a KGM suppressor? Thanks again!
Subscribed.... many thanks
Thank you Gordy !
Thank you so much
Thanks for this. Followed your instructions and all worked out really well today. On unrelated note, what rings system was used to mount the scope on the CZ? Thx.
Texas22jack did a video on Chris method also.. He said the G1 profile matches the shape of the 22 bullet.
Great explanation! Thanks!
BTW, can we use any kestrel? or there is one model more capable for rimfire?
Hey Ray. Great video I never heard of aerodynamic jump. After watching your video, I went back to strelok Pro and I did find a toggle switch on the settings page for vertical deflection of crosswind. Which I believe is the same as AJ. Right ? How can I get in touch with You
I would love to spend five minutes to pick your brain on a few questions
Great content. It's like listening to the oracle. "Well - that's just how it is." OK - can't argue with that. You've got a radio voice. Radio? What's that?
Thank you and thanks for watching the channel. 👍🏼
Great video. I retired coaching a HS rifle team after 18 years at Sacred Hearts Academy in Honolulu. 10 meter CMP and ISSF. I just started shooting air rifle (FX stuff). Can the principles you spoke of be applied to pellets and slugs, and, does Kestrel calculate BC's? MZ is 900-1020 f/sec in .217 and 25 cal.
Thank you for putting together such an in-depth video. I have a question. At approx 23:00 in the video the Kestrel was wrong and you had to manually correct it? If that’s the case why not just shoot and write it down with a pen and paper. I’m sure I am missing something. Thank you for the education.
Great explanation! Can I apply this to larger calibers like .308, starting zero at 100 or 200 yards?
After you've added multiple MV temps in the AB app and transferred them to the Kestrel, do you need to change the muzzle velocity to the current conditions for the profile being used or does the Kestrel already take the MV data table and make the correction.
Great video thanks. I have one question. I zero at fifty yards, at whatever temp and my kestrel will not say zero. It always says up or down a little. Just seems like if I tell it my zero yards in certain weather conditions that distance should be zero elevation.
Likely your aerodynamic drift from the wind. Try setting your wind value to zero and see what happens!
Ray how you compare the new 4DOF to AB one For PRS Rimfire shooting? Thanks
If you tweak you muzzle velocity to make your dope line up, how do you deal with temperature related muzzle velocity changes? I only tweak DSF and use the temp table in the kestrel.
I do it the way you do cbeck. Not really into trying it the other way. 👍🏼
It seems like a lot of the ballistic calculators are off line, at least the ones I checked recently, I don't own a Kestrel
Darn you are going fast for a foreigner - lol - just a thought about the attachment of the magnetospeed - additional weight - harmonics? Possibly not the best ?
I feel the same. 22 is cheap: I'd throw the magneto speed on, fire a magazine's worth to get my speeds, and then take it off to collect my other data.
It is a neat idea for more expensive rounds (338, 384, 50BMG) where you wouldn't want to fire a dozen rounds into the dirt just to get speed, but with those bigger rounds, I'm wondering if the harmonics would be even more of a factor than on a little 22.
Applied Ballistics vs 4DOF? I have seen info that 4DOF calculates in smaller increments than AB, and so gives more accurate readings?
Getting MV I only care about bullet speed if the point of impact is off slightly with the Magnetospeed it’s really no big deal. It comes off after I get 5 or so velocities. Or am I missing something I should be aware of?
Which kestrel model is this ?
Ray, could you do these same steps except in 25 yard increments and calibrate the muzzle velocity at 125 or 150 and then calibrate your DSF’s in 25 yard increments after that to get more precise data. Is that too small of increments and won’t make that much of a difference? Do you have to calibrate your muzzle velocity at 200 yards?
Hey Josh, yes you could. Some people actually prefer 150 yd MV zero.
However, your Kestrel will only hold so many DSF points. So it depends on how far out you to go.
I live near Old Fort. Do you offer any long range courses there or only at Pigg River
Email me at Thexringchannel@gmail.com
Forgive my ignorance, learning this, but what is the waterline he references?
It is simply a horizontal line painted on the center of a target to reference exactly where the bullet is impacting.
Is it common to not use ear pro when shooting 22lr? I often see shooters that don't.
Yes: 22LR match ammo is subsonic, and peaks at 120 decibels, so, though it's on the upper end of what you want to subject yourself to...with Noise Exposure, there is a time component to the exposure: for example, you can tolerate 85dB for 8 hours with no I'll effects, so 120dB for fractions of a second shouldn't put you over. If you're shooting a match where you are shooting hundreds of rounds and those around you will be shooting hundreds more, I'd certainly recommend ear pro, (especially since I suffer tinnitus myself, not related to shooting, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone) but if you're only shooting a dozen or two, it should be fine.
Only works with the 5700 elite unfortunately I just got the 5700
What model Kestrel do you use?
5700 elite
Which model kestrel instrument are you using?
5700 elite and X models.
What is the water line you’re talking about? Are you shooting over a lake or something?
It’s simply a horizontal line on the steel target to see exactly where the bullet is impacting. High, low or dead on.
Hi Ray I went to 224 in the bullet library and I have no rimfire bullets there,any ideas.
Not sure when you might have done your last update. I just checked mine on the Kestrel all and I have Eley, Lapua, CCI etc under the .224 diameter profiles.
@@XRING that was the app ,kestrel updated to 1.4.9
@@XRING app said April last year updated lol
I had the same issue with Kestral Hornady 40DOF. Go to Gun Profile Management, the hit the”gear” icon, on the Profile Type it will say “Hornady”. Click that and it will say/ask Changing Profile Types will disconnect your Kestrel Ap, hit “Change Profile Type”. It will now say “Applied Ballistics”. Enter all your data, save and then reconnect the Kestrel. It will flip back to “Hornady” profile but the data is there and it works.
Am I the only one who has no 22LR bullets in the Kestral LINK Balistics app? When I follow the instructions, there are only .224 bullets from Barnes, Berger, Hornady, Sierra, Nosler for typical 5.56 bullets. No 22LR bullets. App is up to date.
Try it under the .222 bullet size .
@@XRING thanks, I had to switch to Applied Ballistics for the profile (it’s the Hornady 40DOF Kestrel), update the bullet library with a “xcx-match” data (or something like that, I didn’t understand why I’d want someone else’s profiles) but they finally showed up under 0.224. Thanks!
On A.J. Applying Bernoulli's Principle. Where the velocity is the Greatest the Pressure is the least. As the bullet spins (like your drill you put to the post.) The Velocity of the Air from the Right increases the pressure on the bottom and lifts the bullet (because air speed is slower on the bottom). Or decreases the pressure on the top, so the bullet lifts. (Think Airplane wing.) And in my little testing at 224 Yards on a Gusty day, saw the bullet move UP and to the left when the Gust came from the Right. It was an odd day and my wind flags would change directions, when the wind was from the Left the bullet would move LOW and to the right. So I had to not only compensate for Side force but up or down. Has anyone else noticed this?
I just don’t understand why you’d true out your muzzle velo to something that is not true? You know the true velocity, why would you alter it?
So that your calculator matches your true dope.
@@difficult_aardvark yea but there are other things you could change instead of messing with the one factor you know to be true.
This is something that’s always bothered me too. The muzzle velocity that gets ‘calculated’ always seems to be higher than what you actually MEASURED. If it was changing or calculating the velocity at the distance of the target and inputting that into a table I’d understand since we are not actually measuring that with our chrono, but it never seems to be the way it is done, and even still it’s usually higher than the mv…not lower.
@kornykidd0 I had that issue as well, turns out my scope tracking was off. Reccomend trying the tall target test.
50 yard zero is great, but not if you don’t understand why. 100 yard zero is “better” because you have to dial less to get out to 200 yards and beyond.
The 100 yd zero is commonly used for centerfire prs because it is where the near and far zero meet (you will have to hold high at every point beyond 100yds). 50ys is roughly where the near and far zero meet for .22lr (my guess) which is why it is used. Not to mention you can't dial down with a zero stop but can always dial up.
@@HumbleDishwasherwhat is near and far zero? Never heard of that before?
@stevewort Not sure I understand your question exactly. However, every rifle has two zeros,so if you’re looking through your line of sight (scope), the bullet starts below your line of sight crosses in an upward path goes to its maximum ordinate and then crosses your line of sight again therefore you have two zeros. A near zero and a far zero. The most common example of this is if you zero your AR 15 or rifle like that at 50 yards it will cross your line of sight again somewhere around the 200 yard mark. There are your two zeros, 50 for near 200 for far.👍🏼