StarCraft 2: AlphaStar (Artificial Intelligence) vs Grand Master League!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 พ.ย. 2019
- AlphaStar has been playing on the StarCraft 2 ladder over the last few months. Recently the Google DeepMind team that has been developing this artificial intelligence released a blog post, a research paper and a replay pack about the AI.
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Lowko vs AlphaStar: • StarCraft 2: Lowko vs ...
DeepMind blog post (includes AlphaStar replay pack): deepmind.com/blog/article/Alp...
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StarCraft 2 is a military science fiction real-time strategy video game developed and released by Blizzard Entertainment.
#AlphaStar #StarCraft2 #SC2
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We are teaching robots how to control armies and use tactics and strategy. This will obviously end well.
When AlphaStar is ready, it needs to be released onto Battle.net permanently under the username SkyNet.
who developes the time machine? it's the last missing thing for the story.
*AI Takes control of the army drones* "This is fine"
I hope AlphaStar hacks into your computer in order to silence all neighsayers of its glory
@@sintanan469 There's already an SC1 AI called Skynet. It plays Protoss, and has really good Dragoon control. For a few years it was the strongest Brood War AI, and it still plays on the SSCAIT ladder (under the name of its author, Andrew Smith).
As a computer scientist, I find this AI very fascinating.
As a SC2 fan, I love the attention the game is getting from this.
As a Lowko subscriber, I love the casting that comes with it.
Win-win-win?
As an AI engineer , i want OpenAI to enter sc2 league so we can have OpenAI vs AlphaStar. AI vs AI, fully unlocked with no restrictions, imagine the brutality of such a match
@@Navhkrin that would be amazing. Could even get teams of 2 or 3 playing against each other.
@@Navhkrin Do you need to be an AI Engineer to seek such a matchup? smh we get it you vape luv
I'm a mere wannabe game developer with a little knowledge in coding though I have entered some game jams. That random fact aside I would love them to use an AI to balance the game. Surely an AI of this degree will find the perfect formula for balancing races.
@@housemana I have a feeling that rare is the AI scientist who vapes, (I suppose you mean THC). That's more an arts and entertainment person thing.
getting to grandmaster without understanding that you can only place creep tumors on creep
maybe there is a bug exploit there? i mean playing the game for 200 years... you kinda find some nice stuff... just look at super mario world bugs... people just keep find more and more
@@deverostv5046 i think you're right that it's a bug, but I don't think the bug is with sc2 if you catch my drift
13:10 "I don't think it's going too much at all"
AlphaStar: *laughs in 755 APM*
It's APM is actually lower than players
@@Sorin2120 But Alphastars APM is actual commands that mean something. If a human has APM above 200 its mostly just spamming. No human being gives 200 meaningful commands in a minute. So if Alphastar has equal APM in numbers it's in reality probably 10x more control.
@@earlgrey2130 laughs in Korean
@@earlgrey2130 Exactly, AlphaStar doesn't spam click, it's obviously always very precise commands and moves all the time.
21:18 856 APM...😅
One different thing for alpha star and it's apm is that those are calculated commands where a human has inflated numbers as they have to do a lot of check ups and many redundant presses so when the AI hits 500 apm... that is kinda scary
It hit over 700 in the first match.
well so what? a computer is always going to do calculated actions
Tommy Productions that’s the point... each and every action is already calculated for best probability... soooo while they have similar apm, the ai will always have better micro
21:18 856 APM...😅
its not really scary when its still not the top ranked is mentioned in the video.
Tbh I would like to see unrestricted Alphastar vs ~5 pros on Archon mode at the end of big tournaments. That could be sick!
5 pros is probs too many even with alphastars near perfect micro, it will need to have a resource or build boost or something
@@samv93 Archon mode means they would share the same player, so fair play resource-wise.
@@eagle2com Oh didnt't see that xD idk though seems like the pros will fck it up since there too many of them, they'll over micro and just fck up the game if there were 5 they would need a very organised team were everyone is assigned a small batch of troops to control and someone was organizing base and who gets the troops and they would need excellent communication to pull it off, but yeh possible though could be a little scrappy lol.
@@samv93 I know right, I would love to watch it though :D
@@eagle2com Yup would be a pretty cool matchup to watch
Lowko: i don't think it's gonna peak that much
Alpha star: shoots up to 740 apm
Highborn keep in mind thats all epm (effective actions per minute) as well. no spam at all.
@@xXMemelord ikr
@@xXMemelord the only way to limit that would be to give her a physical arm to move a mouse and a keyboard . atm she use all queens heals on the right target, all lave on different targets constantly and moving her army ; at the same time . an human can try to make the same , but would never be able to move the army like this and still using resources .
if you noticed, before the fight start, she had 500 minerals , during the fight , at the peak of 740 apm, she use all minerals .
Lowko! This is so cool that you were able to confirm that you played alphastar! Good job beating it too. thats very impressive. I main zerg (diamond 3) and let me tell you, your hotkey setup is way better than mine but i have been using the control groups a certain way for a long time. That is really hard to re-program your brain to change. Your micro and macro is impressive as well. Im glad to be part of a community of the coolest game on the planet!
Alpha Star's real power is that crazy expansion power: it's building even during the intense fights, so its economy can power through even a whole bunch of setbacks. Seriously, watch the money, it NEVER floats any.
Ya and it's macro is probably just as good as a top GM.
@@dannygjk Maybe even better at times. Its micro isn't up to par yet though.
@@Djorgal more than micro not up to it, she litteraly abbandon some actions , because they are superflus , did you see that she destroyed the buble when they actualy close the way, but leave them be when they dont? she probably find more worth in trowing the lava on units that the manuvable space potential .
in the fight with queens that were coming as reinforce, she abbandoned the units to do the most dmg and distract the most time to get the zergling in , because she knew she could lose units and still be on top .
@@unknow11712 She often looses because of bad micro. So, no, it's poor micro is not some sort of genius strategy as you imply.
@@Djorgal abbandoning resources its never a good strategy , she could have just retreated the units leaving some queens to die , sended for poor decision making .
she still had more resources and units away, she didn't send them .
the poor micro its visible when the human player hit more than 1 place and she is slow to react, send units from far away , or send too few against too many , losing alots of them .
in this occasion, it was sacrifice, because those units were actualy retreating , and came back to die with the queens , while she was invading with lings .
not a genius strategy , just a strategy . something that AI don't use.
"Today is time for something special"
Oooo, Time vs Special?
Oh, well this is cool too!
I did see the video name but for some reason after that first sentence, I thought it was a lead in to introduce those players.
Same here! ;D
I, for one, welcome our new AI overlords
Is that you Ken Jennings?
Thank you for the video Lowko! I'd love to hear more about Alpha Star. And perhaps a video for another matchup?
I love your videos. You seem so genuine and excited and that adds a lot as entertainment for me.
AlphaStar didnt even upgraded the hatchery!!!
He beat a Grand Master player with Level 1 Army.
Thats something very interesting.
Because Zerg is OP? :) That's the theme of the season.
Spoiler !!
@@walden6272 True, but not because of Roach/ling/queen lol
@ERA CASTE - thx
My native language is PT-BR and never had a english teacher.
@@vornamenachname906 HAHAHA looks intentionally into the comments..."cries" about spoilers :D xD
don't look into the comments of a 70k views video, if you don't want to be spoilt?
So basically a computer opponent that doesnt 'break' after a time
Try waiting for its retirement! ;D
Its far more than that, this is an AI that literally looks at the pixels on the screen, moves its mouse cursor and plays the game like that, rather than just insta-command stuff via game code access.
@@Baleur Pretty sure it's not doing any image processing. When they say "looks at a screen" they mean that it is only allowed the info that would fit on a screen, but still it reads it through code.
The AI is using the mouse and keyboard dude. It has an AMP, it interacts with the game the same way a human does. It totally is doing image processing.
@@DrSaav-my5ym The AI has no mouse and keyboard and no image processing, you can look it up at the deepmind-blog
It is awesome to watch AlphaStar playing because it does things we just don't see other people do (and they work!) pretty much *"are you not entertained?!"* style!
And having Lowko explaining WTH is going on is absolutely vital to me, I couldn't ever tell otherwise! Thanks, Lowko!!! Please cast more of these if possible! =)
10:40 Gotta love how Alpha keeps his lings in the back as a reserve instead of suiciding into the archons
Yes! Finally one of Alphastar games with some lowko treatment! :D
hey lowko, turned out u were fighting against alphastar as well and won :)
that was so funny when i noticed ur game in that list. awsome.
It has begun... let me know when we have buyable android maids
You aren't going to be able to afford it lol
This is A.I. You're thinking of robotics, which is still pretty lousy.
@@Nukepositive machine learning is how your gunna get robots that move in a human way tho
Maybe not in our life time but the next generation? Very likely, you raise your child to be a man of culture and appreciate the treasure we cannot attain.
bangmaids
Protoss played a pretty solid early game and killed over 20 drones and AlphaStar did 0 damage and still it was ahead... that's insane
Love these alphastar games, it's so interesting to see what the AI does!
Let's take a look, gonna be awesome for sure :D
Skynet Alpha looking great. Next stop: nuclear launch simulation.
Wait a freaking minute!!!
I liked the fact alpha shot the corrosive in volleys and not all at once, reminds me of that strategy nobunaga used vs the sanada cavalry with the riflemen.
So much work and effort put on that I.A. That it not only learned how to play a game, but also counter and micro its army. I wonder where this will lead us in the future.
Anyway, that was an unusual match and opponent. You don’t see every day something like an IA playing a game being casted!
Thanks for the post match commentary, a huge plus. I have taken the plunge and am doing 1v1 vs the AI (for now). Didn't realize how much I abstract just watching. Playing has made me realize how damn amazing the pro gamers are. Oh, am 52, so was about 32 when SC came out and was a mid tier player way back then. My 47 apm won't get me far, but that's up about double after about 25 games, so there's a chance at taking Serral down......yeah, right.
Near the end. You talked a lot about how the AI can help pros come up with the perfect build orders, perfect timing attacks etc.. That had me thinking. Couldn't the AI also help Blizzard design a perfectly balanced Starcraft 3? :O
It could also help making an interesting campaign. Make the AI seems like you're fighting against an actually intelligent commander. To make a mission difficult currently, what they have to do is force you to clean a big enemy base with limited resources on your side.
What if in the story, that character is known as a very good tactician and in the mission, you even have a material advantage but you still struggle because the AI plays better than you. It gives more options in creating interesting missions.
It might also prove that the game can never be balanced perfectly. In other words it could be inherently unstable system, but the human vs human meta is so slow to evolve that the occasional patch is all that's needed.
@@Djorgal interesting point, i haven't even consider this before.
19:00 maybe the Ai can't "see" what the stargate is making based on outline alone? Even though it is discernible visually doesn't mean it has a reading the ai can pick up.
thank you for not rapidly pausing 100 times for extended periods. im talking to you artosis
I have taken it's Protoss strategy and wont a few games myself. It has tactics that works. Straight up.
The chain of biles was one of the most beautiful things I've seen, and I don't even play Zerg. More players should use biles to advance like that.
An AI so good that they had to severely limit it. I imagine that it can somehow fight 7 grandmasters in an FFA unrestricted
The clip at 13:23 has been featured in the Netflix documentary "Unknown: Killer Robots" at 32:48!
Hope you make more AlphaStar videos :)
Yes, I enjoyed this video. Thank you
It does play like a human. Incredible. I hope Deepmind doesn't feed alpha star any pre-known tactics and let it develop all strategies organically to see what AI can come up with.
The thing about AIs is that there are two fields where a human will never be able to match them, even with how much they've tried to pair down AlphaStar to mimic human limitations.
Precision Targeting: when it tries to target something, it will not miss. Against a human player, mixing in Overseers with your Vipers will provide some protection against , say, Templars using Feedback because a human will occasionally click an Overseer instead of a Viper. Against AlphaStar, it will only hit the Overseer if and when it wants to, it will warp its Stalkers exactly where it thinks they should be, and it will drop its Psionic Storms just so to catch as many units in it as possible.
Precision Timing: It knows exactly how long everything takes. Cooldowns, attack speed, build and travel times; if it can squeeze out a little bit more efficiency, one more shot before moving out from under a Corrosive Bile, one more round of Zerglings before launching an attack, 10:37 juggling cooldowns like some kind of circus performer, there's really no way to stop it.
These are the kind of things that can't be done unless you can single out pixels and count milliseconds, both of which an AI does by its very nature and can't be realistically coded out of its playstyle.
Still, I kind of want to see what would happen if AlphaStar were entered into a major tournament, and whether the Pros can out think the Deep Mind even with the human handicaps. Maybe donate its winnings (if any) to charity?
I want a starcraft 2 scripting league where everything is allowed as long as you don't break any game rules(built times, costs, vision, etc...).
Where alphastar can go wild APM wise and humans are allowed to use macros like advanced ques and stuff.
Examples:
like: select hive build drone, wait 20 seconds build another drone etc
or: toggle macros like: always produce a drone if larva is maxed and minerals over x.
Or auto retreat on x% health(this one is actually in vanilla warzone2100 it can be set for any unit individually for 70/50/20 i think)
fgreger the first few versions didnt limit it much. it could do perfect macro and blink stalker micro, to the point of like 4k apm for a minute straight. theres a reason its limited lol
@@xXMemelord Dude read the start of his comment plz... In the beginning humans couldn't do that stuff only alphastar...
alphastar is not some rudimentary script-based AI. It's full on neural networks deep learning
Veetu Heiskanen most of it is truly apm based with alphastar becuase none of it is spam, so all that would be apm.
@@xXMemelord that's why the OP is saying that the human would be given the ability to have advanced macro tools, maybe to even pause the game and issue commands, allowing them to increase their own APM
at 21:00 it almost reminds me of how chess evolved after engines analyzed positions... is AI going to evolve how RTS games are played ?
For sure I would bet a lot of money on that.
Those Corrossive Biles are insane!
To clarify, the majority of moves by AlphaStar look human because it was trained on human replays first before moving on to playing itself. What would really be great is if AlphaStar could 100% train itself free of human influence. The results of this human-free method so far have not been very effective. But that's the holy grail.
With Alphastar Blizzard could make changes and check if the change make the race OP. A* needs to train to exploit the change, but it is just CPU time in the end. This is really fascinating stuff.
I am so happy Google guys chose Starcraft2 for this, so many things to learn, for a game that started only ~20years ago.
I would love to see alpha star uploaded to custom games and adjust its difficulty (maybe top amount of action per minute?) because it would be an amazing training tool.
Ya that would be great if they had sliding bars to adjust things like APS and reaction time.
i imagine the energy consumption is ridiculous
@@dannygjk
The problem is that for every adjustment you make to one of the knobs (like maximum allowable APS), you need to let to AI train for literally 100 years and then it's good enough to complete once more. That 100 years can go a lot faster tho, when the games run as fast as the cpu can process it and on as many copies as the RAM can hold (I'm thinking 100+x faster with 10,000+ running at a time making it at minimum factor of a million faster than a human training).
EDIT: Quick math: that 100 years of training, using the numbers above, would take only 53 minutes to complete, but still longer than just sliding a slider. These could all be pre-compiled, but that would limit the options.
21:15 no that is incorrect, it at some point a month or 2 depending on the server power, will cap out. as you can see 1 weakness is creep spread. This i imagine is cos its not thinking its getting a giant boost from it late game by covering the map in creep. or maybe its not using creep cos its basically saying it's to risky cos you might lose a creep spore, hindering it self late game.
I am pretty sure that those creep tumours were BM tumours to force the opponent to GG out.
For what I understand, AlphaStar has to manage one more ressource, APM. Also, did it use control groups ?
Yannick Leduc it does use control groups now. apm is now limited to a certain epm (effective actions per minute) every minute. however it can bank these actions up. hope this helps.
Lowko: Today it is time for something SpeCial!
Me: You mean it's time for something MajOr? :)
6:18 I have feeling alphastar let this one ling die so he have even count of lings, so he save up 1 supply
So, he only wants to lose lings in 2's. Interesting observation. I'll try and see if I notice that on any other AS games.
To me when I saw that part it was like AS simply calculated that it could finish off the kill with the single zergling and HP left but it was a microsecond off
What kind of computer do you have that can run a replay at 8x faster at 60 fps?
I want so badly to see AlphaStar vs AlphaStar in a large-scale micro battle between marine / medivac & stalker / sentry.
I would really, really like to be able to choose to play vs. Alpha Star to practice some time
If it is indeed supervised learning then it will never be more than human because the agent learn from the replay and it can only mimics the gameplay of those replay, maybe mixing them in order to choose the most probable action.
Wow, Alphastar’s corrosive bile shots are way more effective now than before. The replays I’ve seen before of it using ravagers were hilariously bad in terms of effective biles.
I'm pretty sure it already has influenced pro play. I think it was AlphaStar's use of 3 Disruptors in PvZ that brought that strategy into the pro meta for PvZ.
Lowko, can you do one more of these? Can you do it with Alphastar’s viewport?
It is really remarkable the level of ingenuity that goes on in 5:00, when you say that an AI that has been playing against itself for something that was estimated to be 200 years, "May have not seen this build very often since *humans* came up with this build just a couple of months before."
Humans found local optima to the starcraft problem: how many workers you need, at what time to attack or build something, the need for harrassment for a successful game, etc etc.
Someone automated a solver to this problem and found that the solutions found by humans are indeed local optima, since the machine converged to similar solutions.
So you're telling me I could lose a bunch of drones early and still win. Lol
When it is announced that the replay will be released. My first question is that will Lowko go through them all to find out whether or nor He did really play against Alphastar. And he did. Never disappoint Lowko :)))
In the future we are just gonna use Alphastar as a robot that mines minerals
Captain Mccuckin mines 7 minerals instead of 5 due to analyzing the patch for hundreds of years
@@xXMemelord With enough time, AlphaStar will eventually find an exploit in SC2. It'll be interesting to watch :p
This reminds me of the computer chess craze. Companies trying to create the best chess ai to be the chess grand masters. Would be cool to have something like that with starcraft.
It'd cool to see the AI with less limitations or levels of limitations, then have more than multiple people control 1 player. So players will have delegated duties and will be on a discord call.
Then see how much players can AlphaStar handle and how insane the battle would be with several battle happening all around the map.
I made over 8000 online matches back then and archieved the daimond league three times. You might think: "what's so special about that?". Well, I made it with less than 20 (twenty!) APM ...
I would love to see a match Alphastar vs Alphastar _without_ the human constraints.
AI wins
@@Mirage.S Who'da thought?! :}
I wonder it they could also add an efficient learning goal to AlphaStar to make value it's and your time by quitting games with a really low win chance.
YESSS !
Another super AI video!
ALL HAIL the future SKYNET !
Hey Lowko, have you seen the new Carbot t-shirt design; just thought you might look good with Leni in your front pocket 😁
I think the way AI could most benefit pros is as practice partners.
Say you really want to practice against a specific opening or strategy.
Well if you know what strategies are coming, it's not really practice. Since you mentally prepare to deal with it.
Ah, yes, Nature, the science blog, I love their recipes
My dream is that alphastar becomes a real part of the game so you can practice with it. Maybe you can choose against which agent your playing against and it would be super nice if there were against for gold and generell lower league players, but still human like.
I would love to see it becoming a real part of the game ❤️
Nature is a highly respected scientific journal lol
For comparison it would be like me saying, “Oh yeah that guy? He plays some strategy game called Star Craft. Kinda like checkers.”
1:00 Way to strike a blow for humanity!!
4:55 It all looked human-like until they clicked a barrack on the screen margin, followed up by lifting up and microing all the building and SCV droping to your base to kill your queen.
There was only a couple of tells that could hint at this being AlphaStar (like the attempt to spread creep :P).
Would like to see you cast a couple of others, to get your opinion on them.
I kinda want to see what an alphastar vs alphastar mid to late game looks like. In the beginning it would be mirrored sure but what would they do to gain the upper hand on the other AI
Amazing and fascinating. I really don't understand how it works, but why does alphastar sometimes do some super random move that will obviously not work (e.g. try to put creep tumor off from creep)? Just losing some of his APM, and I cannot imagine any reason to do it
Nature is a blog now?! :)
yea
Soon there will be a 7 Human Archon vs Super AlphaStar
Lowko: u-man like
Good stuff
I think AlphaStar will cause the meta to evolve with regard to eagerness to make expansions. I think it's something humans do poorly because we're naturally risk averse and expanding when you're weak feels very wrong. But I've seen some games where it expands while being immortal dropped, for example, and it makes a ton of sense to just ignore the drop and focus efforts on getting bases 3, 4, 5.
It seems alphastar always does this attack as Zerg
Great video. When talking about Serral having a hard time with Alphastar, it's fun to mention that BeastyQT managed to win 5 out of 7 games I believe. He's pretty good.
It should be noted that they didn't fight the same agents. Serral actually lost 3 times against the same Protoss agent. Which also happens to be the one from the ladder. BeastyQT actually fought a different Protoss agent, one that spams Nexuses and Stalkers, lost to it once, then beat it the next time.
Roaches and ravagers are smashing immortals...This is the glory day of Zerg!
what would be nice to see when ai vs ai but with alphastar
maybe the same race too
4:52 yew-man, hahahaha XD
So... basically be aggressive and you'll brick the AI's insane micro tendencies which unlinearily escalate
Hey Lowko, I always watch your videos and I would like to ask you something.
In this game, when Alphastar loses its army of ravagers, you can clearly see that, on the back of that fight, it is now not only ahead in army but mining nearly 10x more since whenever, so "resources lost" loses all importance when trying to see who is ahead.
It seems to me the indicators we can use on replays are really incomplete. The "resources lost" indicator is only useful when both players are mining equally, and the mining per minute is also hard to gauge.
Don't you think blizzard could simply implement a measurement that actually indicates who is ahead, as in: (total resources mined) - (total resources lost)? As I see it, this would be the number 1 indicator, although the others have a bit of use.
At least they didn't name him GrandMasterBaiter for the memes...
You should of view it through alphas camera so we can see how its moving
omg Lowko flexing without spoiling the outcome of his match with AlphaStar hahahaha
"Yeah I got a game against AlphaStar and you can watch the replay. They re-named me to "Master" or "GrandMaster" something along those lines ;)"
CHEEKY CHEEKY
Wonder if they have alphastar vs alphastar without restrictions. That will be some very crazy micro fight.
APM peaked really hard at 13:17
if Alpahstar can get that kind of MMR with APM restrictions, it is basically already unbeatable without.
Yeah on paper if you can target fire with every single unit perfectly, units like the Stalker would be incredibly overpowered. It just requires thousands of deliberate actions per minute.
Trubripes i feel like that would defeat the purpose of making alpahstar. Everyone knows that you can make a bot with perfect micro and macro and beat anyone. The challenge is by placing the restrictions the bot has to choose what to do like a person.
@@Ryan-yx9kz Most casters agree it already passed the Turing test :3 "If you didn't know this is Alpharstar, etc."
@@LowkoTV Speaking of target fire, would you rather micro your 15 tempests to focus fire on 1 target enemy unit (result: unit very dead, many tempest shots wasted(-> overkill)) or attack-move towards a certain group of units (result: very few wasted shots, many units damaged but only few dead)?
or would you not float and waste apm and build more tempests?
@@Trubripes TLDR, the fact that it is human like (with human mistakes) is a detriment to it (and perhaps the researchers)
It's not about the turing test at all, we don't really care if people can't tell if it's a bot or not, DeepMind developed it to study how it learns, how to make it smarter and more generalized. Judging from the game it got cannon rushed, it's still got ways to go. It appears to be mostly mimicking what it thinks a human's response would be (bronze league counter to a bronze league strat, which makes sense since that was how it was trained), and still is incapable of truly understanding its actions.
Yesterday I started watching AS replays on my computer. I much prefer that because I can put the vision from AS's POV and watch like that. Today I watched one of the diamond player replays and if that's diamond I will never reach diamond. iirc it's game 4 in that folder duration about 22 mins
Has Alphastar played the races against itself yet to get some number aproximating the different races strengths. Like a value to compare them with. Then we could tell if Zergs is objectivly speaking OP. My feeling is that Terran are fighting an uphill battle against the other two races.
So in like a couple months AlphaStar will learn everything and become a god again.
It'd be kinda interesting if they had multiple AI that grew like AlphaStar, so we could have both pro gamer tournaments and AI tournaments, so we could learn from super AI tactics
That's not neccesary because you can just let it play itself. If it gets the same input every time and then grows from the same program they will all have the same "education path" and arrive at the same strategies.
random transfuse on a single Zergling at 10:38 :-D
I guess it could also be used as a tool for Blizzard to analyse the impact of a balance patch on the meta before releasing it !
Maybe I'm just naive, but how hard is it to pack a keyboard and mouse, then customize a few settings?
OK Lowko. Do you know what the turing test is?