You are so right. There are many recovery people in the online space who are really encouraging and are providing a HAEs or anti-diet perspective who are so very helpful. But there are also people who are in the hazy quasi-recovery realm supplying information that is not helpful. I've watched A.O.'s videos in the past, and all of the body/weight focused talk and the "only healthy" plant-based food focus struck me as odd for a recovered person. I could also do without the thinly veiled judgments against people in larger bodies disguised as concern for their health. So, I avoid her videos for the most part, and understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions and are free to listen to what she has to say. Her message just doesn't resonate with me and I worry could be detrimental to others.
My favourite thing my therapist ever did for me was saying 'okay, well let's see if that happens and if it does we'll see how that makes you feel' in regards to my fears about gaining more weight than my eating disorder deemed acceptable. By the time I actually got to that weight I'd done so much work in recovery that it just didn't matter to me anymore. It stopped the spiral of fear that was going to prevent me from recovering with the comfort that those fears will be addressed if I needed them to be and shifting the focus away from weight. That's how you help prevent relapse due to fear of weight gain, not by playing into what the ED wants but by shifting the focus
@@WhatMiaDidNext This comment, and this video, in particular, your specific comments about not just eating more but the "deeper much more valuable part of recovery... Unpacking your beliefs about your body... food... That the body isn't the problem" and about you unpacking weight gain fears with your clients definitely resonate with what I continue to need as part of my recovery team. I think you have insight into this and Ed intricacies and yet my existing treatment team (psychologist and psychiatrist) might not have the insight into it that you do. Do you have any places available for new clients? (or is there presently a wait list?). Thanks for the amazing, real, spot on content! You're so valued by those of us who struggle frustratingly to understand ourselves and also have people understand us too!
what a wonderful therapist! My family always keeps saying "oh but you won´t gain so much that you would be chubby or so - just trust me, I know you!" as they are trying to reassure me - I know they think that saying this would help me but truth is noone fucking knows where my body wants to settle at, the important part about this is that IT IS OKAY if it´s going to be a "larger body" / "chubby" ! IT SHOULD BE OKAY AND IRRELEVANT. Not gaining "too much" should not be a focus / marker of recovery. And the message that "you won´t gain too much, you will never be chubby, you will always stay slim" - even if it comes from a place of trying to calm someone - does more harm that good, at least for my eating disordered mindset. It´s sad, that this message is so common, even under professionals who are treating Eating Disorders.I am really trying to change my mindset and it would be so much more beneficial if someone would say something like your therapist did to you instead of this "trust me, you won´t gain that much".... I am so grateful that the people in this community understand what´s the problem about all those messages and what´s the most crucial part of recovery: shifting the mindset from trying to control your body to LETTING IT BE, WHATEVER SHAPE IT WILL END UP IN. Shifting the mindset to stop the assessment around body weight and food. None of this "You are only allowed to do ___ IF you are ___ " bullshit. It should not be considered a privilege to eat processed foods or whatever. The permission to eat (even processed foods and so on) should not be linked to anything - it should be UNCONDITIONAL. That is so important... At least that´s my opinion if I listen to my "healthy self". And I struggle with it every single day.
Exactly!!! I say this at my therapy but people get too butthurt to take on any feedback... So that's what I'm living by (trying to! Currently having a "i look like shyte" moment but yeeeh)
Being a vegan myself I just want to clarify that the definition of veganism is: "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose" and is not centered around the food in itself (if that makes sense). Veganism is a lifestyle and an ethical choice and although eating non-animal foods is a part of it, it's not the end goal. I hope this doesn't come across as whiny, because that is definitely not my intention! Side note, Becoming a vegan has also helped me after my eating disorder to show more compassion towards other living beings and shifting the focus from food and my body to becoming a more open minded and loving person in general. edit: Also I don't think veganism should be used as a cover-up for disordered behaviour or dieting because that is just not what veganism is about. Always lots of love to you Mia! Thank you for all you do!
I agree. Veganism is what helped me recover from my ED. I'm actually eating more now than when I ate omni during my recovery! It is absolutely possible to recover while vegan and this doesn't necessarily mean we all have orthorexia either. I do appreciate a lot of Mia's points, especially about Alice's accreditation and privilege.
I feel the same way. I don't really think about animal products as "food" any longer, so it doesn't feel tied to my ED. I became vegetarian before developing an ED, and I'm vegan now after recovery. The difference between then and now is that I can eat what my body feels like eating without questioning it, without thinking about the calories, or without thinking about weight gain. It's not really tied to the vegan options feeling "safer", but rather, they're what food means to me. I don't choose a seitan burger because I think it's "healthier", but because I don't want to eat animals and don't register them as food. I will still eat my burger fried in oil, with vegan cheese, with sauces, etc. - no restrictions. That being said, I understand that in the current narratives around plant-based diets, people can register vegan foods as being the "healthier" choice, the choice that is going to keep you "fit", etc., and entangling it within ED-driven thought patterns, in which case it doesn't help recovery at all. I'm also aware that following a vegan lifestyle has to do with privilege, and that not everyone may be able to switch even if they'd want to.
Would veganism be a disordered choice if chosen for "health reasons"? (for ex. if i said i won't consume dairy because it causes pimples, or i won't consume meat because it is full of saturated fats) I'm not implying those statements are true, they're my personal and maybe disordered belief.
Tripodologia Felina I’ve never seen someone express exactly the way I feel on this! Animal products aren’t food to me anymore after 7+ years vegan, so not eating them doesn’t feel like restriction. Being vegan taught me to treat myself with the compassion I believe everyone deserves ❤️
I went in recovery from anorexia almost a year and a half ago and did so in a bigger body, which is terrifying. I had no help, no guidance, no doctors, no one took me seriously, so I turned to certain youtubers (like Mia) for some positive encouragement. I ended up stumbling onto Alice Olivia's videos and I found the video where she talks about how you can lower your set point if you don't eat a certain kind of diet. Fortunately, I was so fed up with my ED and diet culture, that I never watched another video of hers again. To any person in recovering in a larger body: I might lose weight, I might stay at this weight forever, I don't know. I really don't. And not knowing that does not scare me anymore. Because at the end of the day, I am the biggest I've ever been, and I am also the healthiest and happiest I have ever been, mentally and physically. I eat the food I want to eat, I exercise when I want to, and I love my body fiercely. I wish you all the best, and I know that it's hard to feel home in a body that everyone tells you is the enemy, but it's home, and it's not bad or evil and it does not need to be changed.
L W 🤍people like you are helping me chill out abt myself. i didn’t read her rhetoric as bullshit a year ago and wish that i had. thank you for calling it out:)))
I just want to say how incredibly strong I think you are for pushing through. Thank you for sharing your story, and thank you for the amazingly encouraging words ❤
I know I'm late to responding (rewatching the video) but I just want to say thank you for this comment ❤ I'm currently in the same boat recovering in a larger body and its (like you said) scary as hell. But I know the longer i stick with it the easier it will get ❤
This video opened my eyes quite a bit, not only about the video you are talking about, but also about videos that a lot of youtubers make nowadays. I never payed much attention to it, but with so many 'what I eat in a day' videos, there is a picture in the thumbnail of that person showing their abs. Things like that do give you the suggestion of 'if you eat like this, you will look like this', while every body is so different and will react different. And then we're not even talking about the video itself, but just the thumbnail. I really appreciate videos like this, that help me shift my mindset, but also help me question the things we see as 'normal', but are actually not helping my recovery. Thank you!
yep!!! it's like indirect messaging, but oh no they cant take responsibility for it because they never actually SAID the words 'if you eat like this you'll look like me'. It's actually crazy how much of this content is out there and how it just seeps into our brains without us even realising
This is the scariest thing about social media and why creators seriously need to be responsible when putting content out there. Thankfully I discovered Mia's channel a good few years ago now - I can see through "what I eat in a day" bull💩 ect glad you have discovered this also
Yes!!! What I eat videos were my lifeblood when I was at my worst, and it's crazy how few people I see talking about how terrible these vids can be. Sometimes i look back at this content and realize how obviously disordered the people posting them are, and I'm sure their audiences are too. It's really nutty how captivated I used to be by these videos.
“If I looked like you, I couldn’t have done it”. EXACTLY. I’m so glad you articulated why her video was so incredibly triggering. I really needed this.
I realised in uni that I hadn’t recovered from my disordered eating and body dysmorphia. During dance classes I’d find myself running to the toilet in a panic and not understanding why - until I looked in the mirror and felt that familiar feeling in the pit of my stomach. I don’t have a small body, I never ever will because my body is not made to be that way, but it’s so extremely hard to cope and remember that MY BODY IS NOT BAD with people like Alice. Thank you for your content Mia, and for having the courage to just speak your mind even if it makes people uncomfortable-it’s more than needed.
I have noticed that ANY restriction makes me relapse in some kind of way, even “healthy” changes, fighting to get better and better ✨ Lots of love to y’all ! ❤️🙌 We can do this 💫
Recovering in bigger body is different than recovering in a smaller body. It's so incredibly insidious to me and my recovery this notion that my body could have a smaller set point if I am plant-based and don't eat processed food. It's literally a lie. A lie I struggle everyday to not beleive. It's reenforcing this lie so deeply engrained in me, and holy shit reenforced by someone who claims to promote recovery, that it's possible for me to be in a smaller body and be well mentally and physically. Even more so that it's my fault for not using her diet to have a smaller body. It's a lie. I literally followed this exact advice and diet with the promise of thin body and relapsed back when I would watch vegan TH-camrs, and convinced myself it wasn't bad for recovery... All under the mask of, I'm just healthily eating everything under these restrictions. I will never have that experience of recovering into a body that society accepts, and anyone who suggests that is harming those of us who just cannot have a small body healthily. Which is ALOT of people, especially POC. (colonialism and beauty standards/which bodies are acceptable people, hope we're all well educated on this) This is suggesting my body isn't ok. This is not recovery. The recovery community should be for everyone recovering from dieting, restrictive eating and eating disorders. Just so insidious, to say this to people she is aware are already disordered.
@Catalina C. it's so fucking hard. My heart truly feels for you. It's such a difficult lie to not beleive. It's renforced everywhere we turn. I want the recovery communtiy to actually be for everyone recovering. We need more fat, IBPOC, poor, chronically ill and generally marginalized people at the forefront of recovery communties. But that isn't who gets the most veiws or attention, for obvious reasons. Sending you so much love. Living in a marginalized body is hard. And it's also beautiful to have a body that is actively resisting harmful structures.
This comment really touched my heart. I am glad you're in a better place now. 90% of the vegan TH-camrs I see making videos nowadays are either suffering ED themselves or promoting ED. They don't even use oils! They adopt a diet (veganism) that's already so restrictive that it requires supplementation of nutrients supplied by the pharmaceutical industry, & then they further restrict, often eating "all raw" or "raw til some random time of day" or "high carb low fat." There are many medical reasons why veganism post-ED is suboptimal both nutritionally & emotionally. Putting your body through trauma of high-fiber, low nutrient foods when you have low stomach acid is a recipe for discomfort, as well
I've seen these terms ("larger body", "smaller body") a lot on the internet lately. I'm just wondering how these are defined outside of the extremes. We know perception of self can be wonky. BMI is debatable.
she literally had a BMI of 25 and gained up to 164 and now weights around 140 so she was well above her set point and felt very uncomfortable if I remember correctly lol
minute 18: the most significant response to “approaches to recovery” such as hers. EDs are NOT just about the body. i do appreciate that this is a young woman who feels she has a solution, but honestly, she is as much “recovered” as people who use the food-addiction/abstinence approach to eating disorders and diet recovery.
This is so bizarre. This is the kind of content I absolutely absorbed at the height of my illness, because it speaks to such a deep denial. I would have loved it! You mean I can keep engaging in restrictive and disordered behaviour but claim the motivation is health and recovery?! Huge red flags.
I did exactly this when veganism was getting popular in 2015 with all the high carb youtubers. Got totally sucked into the idea that I could eat vegan and everything would be fine and I was healthy now. Never recovered, still stuck, yay 😂
So right, it’s so fucking dangerous as a trusted individual to spread unsolicited advice. She’s not being very self aware, using words like ‘leading down the wrong path’ as If that’s what we need to hear!
I remember watching her during my recovery and her content has helped me a lot! But the whole point about „eating in abundance but only whole food plant based etc.“ has always triggered me.. I guess I kind of got her point but I remember trying to recover like that and beating myself up for eating something processed. Overall I was luckily able to just take all the information from her videos that were resonating with me while regarding the rest but not everyone is in a mental state to do that and that can be so harmful! thank you for making this analysis!
Yes! Full of men and women starving them selfs, women losing their periods and having hormone issues (claiming it’s normal and just detox) and looking sickly! So sad
This girl kept me in quasi for 7 months. I was miserable. Thinking I was recovering while I just super focus ok whole food only, developed extremely strong ocd around oil touching something. Yes I gain weight and got my period back but it felt like a nightmare of being controlled by food. Always looking for the ingredients to see if there is no non whole food, being super scared of food. I really think Alice is juste following another diet, a whole food diet which may be beneficial AFTER recovery but never WHILE recovering. I made the step to finally let all of my food rules go, and within 3 days almost all of my Ed voices around food juste vanished. I feel extremely free and normal. If you are in recovery you should not be focusing on whole food. Mental freedom and putting all food on the same step in extremely important. I will never follow her again.
I came across Alice Olivia's channel early into my recovery. Her promotion of a plant-based diet in recovery was triggering. Her "bikini haul" video bizarrely displaying her very thin body to her audience of eating disorder sufferers sent me into a restriction spiral. I unfollowed her. Her channel is not totally helpful, in my opinion, for people at a vulnerable place in their recovery or people not interested in a vegan diet.
As someone who is a vegan for ethical reasons and recovering from disordered eating, her video triggered me. Her message was harmful and it’s just another form of ED. Thank you for making this video and educating us. It really helped me!
Reading the comments I see many people saying what was on my mind during this video. I agree with Mia 90%, but take issue with ethical vegetarian/veganism being conflated with disordered eating disguised by the "plant based for health" crowd. For an example on TH-cam, consider the difference between Jenna+Julien or Unnatural Vegan, and any of the high-carbers. I totally understand that many people can't have any sort of rules in their recovery, and totally support that! But plant based eating from ethical concerns doesn't equal disordered eating.
Yes agreed exactly what I was thinking. There is a huge difference between eliminating foods because of ethical reasons than restricting them because of rules that come from a disordered mindset. I think it really depends on the reason why someone is turning to a vegan diet.
@@vhangel36 I totally agree and was about to point this out - if the person wasn't vegetarian/vegan and then turns to vegetarianism/veganism in recovery, I see the issue there for sure, especially since the vegan community can have some pretty restrictive/critical/damaging mindsets about what's 'okay' to eat (often due to moral policing, not calorie concerns). But if you were always vegetarian/vegan, that seems different. I was vegan for 9 years and am still vegetarian, and no way would I want to eat meat, not because I'm worried about calories (as others have pointed out, 'vegan' doesn't automatically = healthy or skinny!), but because I don't morally agree with it for myself personally (and no, I don't judge meat eaters if anyone's wondering). However, I think it's probably really difficult to tell what your reasons are if you've been eating restrictively for a long time and have eating disorder issues... Probably a highly personal decision that you'd have to be really careful with. Doesn't seem like a great idea to GO vegan/vegetarian in recovery if you were eating meat before. Maybe a better idea to leave til after recovery, when you can be clear about your. motivations with yourself. I do worry about spending time in the vegan community if you've had an ED, because many people ARE very judgemental about what you eat and DO encourage a very restrictive, rule-based mindset and WILL yell at you if you aren't 'vegan enough'.
Yes, veganism when done from a non-ED mindset is dope! But the clips in this video show that a large part of her decision to be plant-based seems to come from a desire for weight control. That's when we stop talking about ethical veganism and starting going into ED territory again
@@inaraykova Totally agree! I do see a lot of advocates failing to make this distinction, and painting it all as disordered, unfortunately. I'd love to see some more nuanced discussion on this topic.
It was not conflated with disordered eating. It was conflated with being a diet and with being antithetical to Recovery. Veganism IS a diet. Diets, restrictive eating, food rules ARE all antithetical to ED recovery.
I have followed you for years and you have always helped me so much through my recovery, because of how well-spoken, educated and nuanced you are about eating disorders and your approach. Thank you for speaking out when things are not right and might be dangerous for people who suffer from eating disorders. You are amazing Mia
Alice, I have a Bachelor if Medical Science (Honours) and in that degree, I studied pharmacology, neuroscience, haematology-To name a few. But that doesn’t mean I can then give people advice on their blood work. It doesn’t mean I can dispense medicines or suggest therapy for anything neurological. What Mia has said in the video outlines the aim of recovery accurately. Here, we’re a close community and we support each other with all of our differences and our challenges. We don’t talk about numbers, we don’t aim to fall into a societal “norm”-we’re aiming for beyond that. A freedom from restriction of any kind and a life where we love ourselves freely, openly, and limitlessly.
I believe when she says "Minnie Maud" she refers more to intuitive eating or "All in"-approaches, that are actually pretty popular right now. Great video! I am so over people charging for their (equally disordered) plans to heal people that need actual help...
She might mean that, but that's definitely not what Minne Maud is intended for. It's been bastardized into some binge fest free-for-all by vids like Stephanie Buttermore eating ice cream from the carton in her bath tub. It's quite disgusting tbh. What's being called "intuitive eating" now on YT is selling the dream that "unlimited binging is 100% healthy" to people who may be suffering ED either based on restriction or binge eating
@@scarlet8078 I think the point with Stephanie is that she was so physically and emotionally unhealthy with her previous eating habits that she wanted to give herself total free reign to override those belief systems. She states often that she won't continue to binge as her hormones balance out and her hunger levels do so also which is what intuitive eating is. She is also fit, kind, and curvy, and if she is happier that way then good for her! She is still healthy! There is a negative health element to bingeing overall but she does have a pretty balanced diet that includes 'junk' food. I also agree that some have to remove restriction altogether to understand that the world doesn't end based on a change in body size or eating habits as that is a disordered value system.
@Scarlet I’m going to point out for everyone reading there is absolutely nothing wrong with eating ice cream out of a container in your bathtub. It’s all part of intuitive eating. You don’t know what’s good for one person just because it’s not what you do.
I think calling what someone is doing "disgusting" is quite disgusting on your part, actually. All in and Stephanie Buttermore has literally saved my life. Yes, what you may call a "binge" is exactly what my body and mind needed- and you know what? My periods are back and my brain now functions. Just because someone is "eating ice cream in the bath-tub" or whatever small piece of detail you picked up without watching her WHOLE video PLUS her background, you can't judge. If you have not suffered from an eating disorder, I am happy for you. And if you have but are still saying this, then you probably need to rethink where you are getting your guidance to recover.
Honestly, going vegan was one of the pivotal steps forward in my own recovery from disordered eating, because for the first time I was basing my food choices off something besides what would make me fat or skinny. However, I'm not advocating this as a method for other people, and I eat a wide variety of vegan foods, including the cheap ones (rice, beans, potatoes and broccoli) to the more expensive ones like vegan ice cream (and I'm aware of the many privileges I have that allow me to eat this way, including access to a kitchen, to grocery stores that supply these foods, and the money I use to buy them)
TheLostPumpkin I really relate to this! I'm slowly working towards vegetarian, and just removing a few meats fro my diet has forced me to make a decision completely alternate to my eating disorder, creating new wats to interact with it. I have a close friend who has done the same, when I visited the dietitian she said it is very common in eating disorder recovery & provides a sense of control without restrictions or purging.
It was the exact same for me, for the first time the value of food was no longer based on the number of calories, but on whether or not it was ethical to consume.
I had always gotten an uncomfortable feeling when I watched Alice Olivia's content. Decided just to separate myself from her videos. Very glad to see that it wasn't just myself thinking these things.
I hate the kind of fear and shame mongering that is often installed in people going into ED recovery about gaining "too much" weight, or binge eating. One of the first things my psychologist discussed with me when I was in inpatient treatment was how I was going to eat more and gain weight without falling into the common trap of binge eating (which had never been a symptom of my ED). It scared me at much at that point that I was even more reluctant to commit to recovery! Such a damaging message on many levels.
IMO it's one thing for someone who has been in recovery for a long time to consider veganism for ethical reasons, but veganism as a means of weight control is not recovery!
In my early recovery, I watched this girl nonstop and thought if ate foods that weren’t “whole food plant based” all the time (like if I included oil, sugar, etc) I would go above my set point n be unhealthy ):
This idea of plant based, minimally processed abundance fed directly into my disordered eating. I coped with how restricted my diet was by eating huge amounts of veggies, way past satiety, which then developed into bingeing on 'processed' foods too. And because there was this idea that in order to keep your set point low you need to maintain a 100% 'minimally processed' diet, I had even more guilt about bingeing, feeding into binge/restrict and purge cycles. But initially, I was convinced that I had a healthy attitude to food because I wasn't restricting the amount like I had been before I was vegan.
I used to watch her channel but ended up finding it really triggering. I see nothing has changed except that she is now aware of the fact that she is triggering and instead of changing her message is aiming to change her audience. interesting. Don't know how I feel about that. I think she has good intentions though
It looks Like she’s taken this video down now off of her channel. In her four year recovery update video just a couple months ago she was saying how she eats way more processed food now and is a much more intuitive eater... seems like she’s still struggling to find her message and work through her own thoughts/experience
she also claims that she's eating a lot of calories (+2500) as a standard for this pandemic time, but in her latest what I eat in a day she definitely didn't eat more than 2000.
@@eveeexx Calorie intakes can fluctuate, especially if you worked out one day and the next day you didn't. Sometimes i can eat 600+ more than i did yesterday depending on what i did, that isnt unusual.
@@miffygames9099 I get your point, but she didn't mean that. What she is trying to say is that she can eat a lot and stay slim. She specifically said she eats that amount of calories AT LEAST. (in this time of a pandemic, not your day to day life) But that's not the truth.
Wow. Okay. I struggled for years, delaying my full recovery because I was being misled by that whole orthorexia approach. Eating more but limiting what I ate. Recovery is about dropping any ideas about what human bodies should look like along with letting go of control. Recovery is not going from restrictions into another form of restriction! Gaining weight is part of the process. Having a smaller body is not the goal of recovery like what. This video blows my mind. If she wants to talk about healthy eating, it is ENTIRELY possible to do that separate from the topic of weight loss. Healthy eating should be about healing the body from the inside out, regardless of weight! If anyone has an audience of primarily people recovering from eating disorders, it’s crucial to switch the narrative away from weight loss and calorie counting. Thank you Mia for talking about this video! Much love ❤️
I can remember being this way when my eating disorder went from being severe to mild and thinking that meant I was the pinnacle of recovery. I how and realizes that she is not actually recovered
Nice video Mia! While Alice has definitely helped me through my personal recovery with an ED, you bring up some good points. For me, her way of eating was the only way I could truly heal my body after failing time and time again with various treatment centers. That being said, I could see how her content could be potentially triggering to others.
I think I’ve said this before in comments on your videos regarding veganism and recovery, but I feel it’s important to share my perspective and experience. I have recovered from an eating disorder while maintaining my veganism. Veganism is not a diet, it’s a lifestyle based on an ethical belief. Animal products are not food to me anymore after over 7 years. My perspective has changed, and eating animal products would be like eating a tree branch or a clump of dirt. It’s not restrictive to not eat items that aren’t food. I agree that her emphasis on minimally processed may be a problem for those in recovery, as I had to learn to allow myself to eat processed vegan foods and not feel guilt over those choices, but her emphasis on a plant based or vegan way of eating is NOT inherently restrictive. I find myself getting frustrated with what feels like a strong bias on your end against veganism as a valid belief to hold while in recovery. I think it’s short sighted and reductive to ignore those who are ethical vegans and have found success healing while maintaining their ethical beliefs. Without veganism I never would have learned to practice self compassion and begin healing. It is not a restrictive diet, and literally saves lives (not just animal lives but human lives, mine included). I really enjoy much of your content and want to support what you’re doing with your platform, but I am frustrated with your one dimensional take on veganism.
I'm really happy for you that you could maintain your veganism during recovery, but it's just not possible for everyone. I'm going to share my experience with you. When my anorexia started, I only focused on calories. Later, I cut out almost all carbs. Then one food or even food group after the other until there was not much left to eat and I also didn't really eat. For people like me it's extremely triggering to have rules around food and cutting out food groups is a huge step back into the ED which, as you know, would be life threatening. I'm also a very picky eater (mostly to plant based foods, except fish, I really hate the texture and consistency) and have tons of intolerances (only to plant based foods btw), so there already a lot of things I can't or just don't want to eat. If I went vegan, there would be even more foods I couldn't eat but the problem here is that I would make it a rule not to eat it, not because I'm intolerant or just don't like it. I'm working on limiting dairy right now, but I'm never going to cut it out completely, just like meat. I need to have the option to eat what I want. Just as an example, I stopped eating fish when I was about 11, I'm 26 now, but a few months ago I was curious if I would like it since I haven't tried it for so long. So I tried salmon, still hated it and I'm not going to try it again, but I have the freedom to try again if I want to. Having that freedom is super important to me because of how my ED started. I totally understand where you're coming from, but for most people who struggle with an ED that's restrictive, I would say that being vegan for the time they're recovering isn't the best idea because you'd be confronted with foods you can't eat constantly and that can be super triggering. When you're out for dinner or just grocery shopping for example. I think it's best to keep every food group open during recovery and then ease your way into veganism if that's your goal. So again,I understand your point but I also understand Mia and if I had to choose I would take Mias side because I'd rathe be safe than sorry.
I agree with this . People just sometimes hate something that is good because it's a little different without looking into it. Being plant based does help. I had a patient who cured her heart problems and high cholesterol through a plant based lifestyle and she was not overweight but suffered these problems due to eating a western diet. She did that because she couldn't afford the medication and doctors visits and dietitians that didn't help her. Yet people are just so against plant based eating and say it's restrictive when it really isn't because our body actually benefits from that kind of food.
Thank you x making this video. I m having a relapse in my eating disorder (because when I finally saw my boyfriend again after lock down he told me I put on some weight) and felt really confused when watching Alice's videos. I have a body tipe different from her, I naturally have wider hips so it triggered me to think that I will be recovered when I will reach a lower weight. I think she didn't realize how triggering her content can be but now she knows and I would appreciate if she deleted it so other people won't get triggered. (excuse my bad english, it's not my first language)
I have watched Alice Olivia's videos before. As a recovering anorexic, i definitely saw some red flags, and had a very iffy feeling about much of her dialogue. Thank you, Mia for addressing this!💜
I have been up and down with my anxiety and own disordered eating, what Mia did next had LITERALLY saved my life! Thankyou so much for being a sounding board for recovery xxx
Thank you, Mia. Luckily, I stopped following Alice a time ago because I was feeling slightly triggered by her content the last months I saw her videos. I once followed her for recovery reasons but I am happy that I listened to my intuition because her message was not in line with what my vision of recovery is and I started feeling bad and anxious watching her videos. I am thankful that someone adresses the problem with the underlying message in content like that. I was feeling like I am the only one who doesn´t sit well with such input!
Though I had never heard of Alice Olivia until this response video, I am glad I watched it because your content is such a breath of fresh air amidst my own recovery journey. Because you have so authentically and genuinely faced your own recovery journey and now stand as a true advocate alongside others that are pursuing recovery and being fully recovered, your videos are laced with invaluable truths that powerfully contradict the eating disorder voice. Mia, thank you for putting out recovery-focused content that boldly, yet humbly brings correction to voices that are not demonstrating authentic pursuit of recovery. It is truly life-giving and encouraging!
I‘m super grateful you produced this video! I watched Alice’s video before and as I’m not super far in recovery yet, my eating disorder wanted to make me believe everything she said although I actually knew that parts of what she says are harmful. One of the thoughts that come up the most during my recovery is the question, why there are obese people, I mean like really unhealthy people, if the body wants to stay at a weight where it’s healthy and able to live a good life. That just doesn’t make sense to me and it terrifies me everyday. I’m a bit afraid of becoming unhealthy and obese after recovery (and I’m not talking to plateauing at a higher weight. That would be ok for me if I felt healthy and fit) as I have several family members who are so. It would help me suuuper much if you could make a video on this topic and I’m sure I’m not the only one 🙏🏼 Thank you for sharing such important and amazing content ❤️
I haven't watched her videos for ages because I was stuck in quasi recovery watching her videos (I still am but those made it worse). I became obsessed with the idea that I could eat huge amounts of whole foods, gain weight for a bit and then eventually be thin again (I've never been naturally thin) but it just fueled my orthorexia. Dangerous messages. I'm still stuck in quasi recovery because it's so hard to unlearn this ideas :(
Although I am still vegan for ethical reasons and I honestly think this is okay for me personally as I have never used veganism to restrict the food groups I eat. If I'm restricting I do it vegan, if I'm trying to recover and eat in abundance all types of food deemed healthy and unhealthy, I've done that vegan too :)
I have a whole food plant based dieticien, not specialised in ED recovery but she's amazing. Even she is plant based she says eat everything your body craves for. Doesn't matter what. Really looks to me and what i need to recover.
Personally, Alice Olivia’s videos were some of the most helpful things to me when starting my recovery. She was the first person who ever said anything about set point theory. As someone who wasn’t able to get professional help, different recovery approaches were the most important thing for me to learn about. And she never claimed to have any certification or claimed to be able to cure me. But she did offer a support group and community of people going through something similar. Her channel along with Jen Bretty were really what opened the door to recovery for me.
thank you for this and for all the work you do, Mia. I'm so glad I saw this video before I saw Alice's original video - it would've sent my already tenuous ED situation down an even darker hole. I know how difficult it can be to call out harmful behavior, especially when it's seemingly well-intentioned, so major fucking kudos for your bravery here. just know how appreciated you truly are.
I switched to vegan about a year after being recovered and it hasn’t been hard for me. But literally nothing plant based is off limits and they are coming out with some really amazing plant based options. So ya, I eat my fare share of plenty of unprocessed foods lol
I'm the same, switched to being vegan about a year into recovery for ethical reasons (wanted to for about 3 years prior to actually switching, but recovery and my own personal mental well being needed to be my priority, so I waited) and it's worked great for me. Gained the rest of the weight I needed to gain eating vegan and literally nothing vegan is off limits. I've eaten more icecream and chocolate as a vegan than I ever did before even having an ED 😂 I also NEVER judge or try to dictate or comment on what other people are eating/ should eat because I KNOW. I know where I stood ethically and how much it hurt me to not just go vegan as soon as I wanted to. It's not fair to put that on someone else. Everyone is on their own journey and has their own priorities and accessibility needs. I understand veganism isn't for everyone but it's definitely for me, and I'm glad I recovered so that I can live alongside my morals now in my recovered body and mind😊
thank you so so much. i didn‘t even recognize since now how much this triggered me some time ago when i started recovery, but wow it was incredibly toxic
I watched a lot of this girl when I was hella deep in ED. Her messages are so mixed--supposedly pro-recovery but incredibly restrictive and obsessed with her own body and looks. I also think she is irresponsible because she is NOT a professional but portrays herself as one, selling her crap and "guiding" people. She strikes me as a narcissist and still disordered, and whether this is true or not, her content was the opposite of helpful for my recovery and I unfollowed her long ago. For what it's worth, I have the same feelings towards This Girl Audra, who I also used to watch when I was deep in it. These two are incredibly dangerous for people still suffering or who are actively pursuing long-lasting recovery.
Jennifer H couldn’t agree more especially about This Girl Audra. And I’m fairly certain that Alice Olivia has stated that whilst she was recovering initially she ate all vegan foods- junk food/unprocessed etc.
@@shannonb2569 Yeah, I remember her talking about "junk" food but only under the vegan category--which I understand, as I was vegan for a while myself and still have a lot of issues with the ethics of meat and dairy and eggs--but it seems more like she was doing the "negotiating with terrorists" thing. As in, she'll let herself eat, but only if it's X type of food. In other words, another type of restriction and a way to present herself as superior and knowledgeable, which is ridiculous because she sounds so uneducated when she speaks and just parrots the same things over and over "eat in abundance" "plant-based whole-food" etc. This Girl Audra is another level. She's vegan, too, but... I know you can't judge someone's health by the way they look, but she seems to have compulsive exercise tendencies and it just hurts me to watch her. And she's another instance of showing off her body, which is incredibly counterintuitive for ED recovery and sends the terrible message of "If you recover to a non-skinny body, you are doing it wrong."
in one of my hopeless days alice's talks about "all in" had given me the strength i needed to go on eating as much food as i wanted, but i would be lying if i said the reason why i had taken her advise instead of that of anyone else wasn't for the fact that she looked so lean in her videos. i'm one of those being stuck in quasi-recovery for years, still looking for a way to end up skinnier while following a "pro-recovery" eating pattern, and thus have found alice's method very promising. i tried to eliminate all meat products and non-vegan processed foods out from my life for more than 1 month - then stopped it because such a "lifestyle" was so financially draining for me and didn't help with any of my food obsession. i just went from being obsessed with this thing to being obsessed with another thing. i'm not blaming the damages i got on her, because it's my responsibility for not consulting with any dietician or recovery coach and only following advice given by a stranger on Internet - but this is exactly why content creators have to be cautious about what they publish. i assume there are a lot of people like me - living outside of the States, lacking the means to seek professional help (recovery coaching is not available where i live and finding one online is too costly for me) and thus would committing themselves to a non-personalized recovery method that seems to work on the internet - amongst her subscribers, which i wish she had taken into consideration before explicitly promoting the exclusion of a specific food group as the way to achieve one's (lower) set point. the thumbnails showing off her lean body are too skinny-baiting to be pro-recovery too. i do admire alice for her courage and i'm glad that a vegan all-in approach has worked for her, but i have to agree that certain parts in her contents are triggering. her messages are positive and promising, but they hold high potential to have unintended effects on this very very vulnerable community.
Thanks Mia, I am just looking at/starting recovery and the fear of weight gain and bigger body is very strong. Some words she uses and phrases i find very triggering. Recovering of atypical anorexia is going to be hard enough without this type of thing.
Thank you for mentioning the privilege!!! I get depressed sometimes seeing people eat these huge beautiful healthy meals 3+ times a day and thinking about how we can’t all afford to eat that way!!!
At the start of my own recovery, even I could tell this girl was toxic to all of us who were vulnerable. Hope one day she finds full food freedom and detaches herself from weight labels
I am a part of the online community Alice has and it has changed my life. Her and the others are very supportive and that's is something I would pay for. She doesn't claim to be a therapists or dietician or a professional, in fact she states seeking professional care is highly recommended. She's essentially offering friendliness and connection and being exchange for it. I support her eating with Abundance with focus on earthly plants and whole foods for diet recovery. Diet recovery comes after eating disorder recovery. Choosing plant foods isn't restrictive when it's considered genuinely what that person wants. Great video for advertising alice. Low quality video for the bash.
I wish someone would sue the hell out of all these 'nutrition coaches'. Its no wonder disorder recovery is so difficult when there's nonesense out there like this. So sad. I love you dearly Mia.
Coming from a past of Orthorexia (and still battling at times) I have been hearing about this Plant Based Abundance theme more and more and it was like calling my name LOL. Well, NOT ANYMORE. Thank you for really speaking TRUTH in this area and empowering viewers like me to cut through these false promises.
I am not a vegan but I dont think you understand her method or perhaps I didnt understand. But to my understanding she doesn’t restrict anything but animal products. She says she just eats healthy minimally processed foods as a base and then dumps whatever she wants on top of it. So if she wants pizza she may just choose to have a salad with it. At the end of the day, many people have eaten intuitive for their whole life and felt like crap because of their poor diet. And all intuitive diets eventually involve gentle nutrition. She was so helpful to me because I was terrified of recovering because it was my intuitive diet as a younger person that made me look into nutrition in the first place because I felt horrible and had no energy. So in my case I just ate healthy foods and dumped everything else on top of it. It was amazing and I finally was able to stop worry, relax, and now I feel completely free to eat anything I want! I don’t restrict, I add! She honestly was my key and I am so grateful to her! And for the record, I have a bigger, more curvy body, and I have come to love my beautiful body in partly thanks to her.
Thank you so much Mia for this video and your always thoughtful and critical analysis. You are absolutely right that recovery involves challenging our belief systems. I just want to put it out there, I am recovered from a long time ED and have moved into the world of clinical mental health support for those with EDs. After my bachelor degree, i was in no way qualified to provide support and advice to any clients. I really had to do a master degree with a specialization in this field to engage in recovery therapy and treatment. I agree that having lived experience is INVALUABLE, but this experience only gives you the capacity to tell someone what works for you, not what will work or them. Thanks again Mia, I love your videos, so insightful and critical :)
True but, It's not just about how cheap the food is, it's about access to said food. Also, if one only has access to food banks and unregulated food support, there is a great chance those items may not be available. Also, Vegtables, fruit and loads of protein/healthy fat sources aren't cheap and are not widely available.
Full freedom of eating food shouldn't have to conflict with morals. Plant based needs to be an option for recovery that gets put out there as not doing so makes some people refuse to even look at recovery. I agree that she's still promoting restriction with whole food only mindset. As well as the weight gain/loss focus.
Came here to say this! I am shocked by how many people do not even consider how much economic status influences and usually limits access to food. I'm not sure about the true status of Alice's recovery, but I do think recommending one recovery method for all people is ill-advised, even if individual finances didn't factor in, but IRL they do factor in and it is really short-sighted to not even acknowledge it.
It's illegal where I live to charge people for a profession that you don't have academic or legal classifications to give this information/charge people
Alice: are you trying to recover from dieting? Here, have this diet that I have disguised with the word 'recovery' I love the video Mia. That you for covering such hard topics. It's really important to talk about stuff like this and being able to recognize that it's toxic.
First of all I want to say that I follow you both and enjoy both of your videos. While I agree with most of what you say, you gotta realise that in reality some methods work for others and some don't. I battled ED for over 20 years. Searching for answers I bumped into tabitha farrar method (now more known as all-in) and stayed patient for almost three years on it only to get larger and in the process also destroying my mental health, hating myself even more and have suicidal thoughts. Then I found alice olivia where (at least for me) things started to make sense and for the past year the majority of my diet has been plant-based and only then I make peace with myself and my weight finally stabilised / tapered. There is no absolute and especially for ED recovery sometimes you got to keep trying until you find what works for you. It seems to me putting up titles such as "this is harmful" sends out negative vibes even though your content and your meaning is good. To Alice Olivia: girl don't get distracted by critiques. Keep doing what you are doing.
Veganism is based on the belief that killing/harming/using animals is wrong, its a legitimate choice that doesn’t really have anything to do with dieting. Being vegan doesn’t mean that you have an eating disorder, however vegetarianism and veganism are often used by people suffering from eating disorders to justify or legitimize restriction. I guess the bottom line is this - veganism and eating disorder recovery should ideally remain separate. Don’t use an eating disorder recovery platform to promote veganism. Don’t use a vegan platform to pretend you are an eating disorder specialist. If you are in eating disorder recovery, its probably not a good time to go vegan. Wait, be patient, let yourself recover and adjust to your new lifestyle before taking on another lifestyle change.
This was a great video, I don't often comment on them as I just nod along and agree with everything you say! But I really appreciate the message of health at every size and touching on the importance of individualism in process of recovery. It can't be stressed enough how important it is to get help from people who have the TRAINING to help you, we cannot afford to mess around with mental illness in such a casual way! Thanks Mia!
"Deeply misleading, dangerous and unethical" .... could not have put it any better. I was shocked to see her video. I am so grateful that i am far along into my recovery to see straight through it. I feel so scared for vunerable people who are at the start of choosing recovery that may fall victim to her advice. Such a shame that she has put this out there as "a method" to recover. Your video is spot on as always thank you x
Gosh I feel so confused after watching this. Her videos were a huge part of me deciding to recover...but I guess I realize now that, at the time, a big part of that decision was because I did have hope that I would be able to eat a lot (or at least eat a normal amount) and eventually be thin like her again. I'm six months in and tbh I felt like since I'm basically back to my pre-ed body, I was recovered. But I guess I really have not tackled the weight/society issues at all lol :( I guess my recovery was basically based on the fact that eventually my body will go back down in weight again >_< Anwyays thanks for this video. It gave my a lot to think about
Speaking from my own experience, I also think it's TOTALLY normal and valid for the content you consume and use for motivation to change over the course of your recovery! Don't let that make you second guess the amount of work you HAVE put in up to this point. Keep reflecting, keep allowing yourself to be curious. I believe in you x
When I was recovering and binging, I saw her videos and since she said that if you eat processed food your body will never get to your natural set point I got further stuck on the restriction cycle since I would see processed food as “bad” and binge more on them. Her message was really really harmful at the time since it just made me more confused about food and made my binging worse, I ended up having to go with a psychiatrist since I couldn’t control my binges.
I dont think people should use a plant based diet for recovery. It puts the idea that not only do you have to stay minimal with the processed food (which you should probably eat as much as you want in recovery to get over those fear foods) but also gives the notion that butter, raw cheese, whole milk, meat, fish, eggs, etc. Are "bad" or "unhealthy" when these are the most nourishing and satisfying foods for your body. They are very important to eat especially if you have an eating disorder that has caused you to be nutrient deficient and imbalanced hormones. Also if you have been restricting and then go straight into eating an abundance of only plants it could potentially really damage your gut with all that fiber. I understand if you want to be vegan for the animals but during recovery YOU are more important than the animals.
Also with being vegan there is the side where you always have to be looking at nutrition labels/ ingredient lists, thinking about what you will eat at a friend's house, or constantly watching what I eat in a days to find new recipes and food ideas. An obsession with food.
This is SO true!!! Thanks for sharing! Funny enough I've just watched her video this morning and I had to stop it. And then you've uploaded this video and it helped me so much. So thanks a lot ❤️ best wishes from Germany 🥰
In my experience, (and of course this is my unprofessional personal opinion related to my experience having recovered fully from bulimia.) I understand what Alice is trying to say and I also agree with Mia when she pointed out and rephrased what Alice said into if I looked like you I wouldn't be able to have done it. These are very sensitive cases, a lot of gray area, and people can be triggered so easily however, I feel like people shouldn't have a " relationship with food" on any emotional level aside from nourishing and fueling your body. Which is of course easier said than done. The goal for my recovery was to be able to eat food without thinking about it and then move on with my day. basically I wanted my brain back as it was constantly hijacked with eating disordered thoughts. but at the same time feed my body things that would actually nourish it. I Sometimes feel like inpatient Rehabilitation is the only way (for many cases) because this is a mental disorder much like a drug addiction (we cant think our way out of it) it would require inpatient Rehabilitation. In fact, I recovered from my eating disorder while in inpatient Rehabilitation for a drug addiction and I made sure to inform all of my counselors how important it was to me that I get to the root of the problem because if I stopped one addiction the other would surely surface. they actually have a 12-step program for eating disorders. The common denominator between both addictions that I have seen is that we tend to seek happiness from outside sources whether that be the way we look or the way we feel. Or the way we feel because of the way we look. or whatever because we're running from the way we feel. the root of any recovery is to stop seeking comfort from outside sources and to love ourselves from within. How we go about doing that is the journey of recovery. in my experience I've had a life of extremes, binging and purging or starvation. Or being responsible tax paying hard-working individual versus completely off the rails wandering the streets without sleeping for days at a time. so for me, eating everything I wanted when I wanted it was just another extreme in line with all my others but restricting was very triggering as it could hijack my thoughts away from recovery. I do not capital letters do NOT believe in healthy at every size. it is a scientific fact that obesity is not healthy. and same thing on the opposite Spectrum. some people are naturally going to be heavier and some people maybe not. and we shouldn't Focus on how heavy or light. Or the size of our hips or thighs or the way we look at all in general, but instead focus on loving ourselves from within finding our gifts and talents utilizing them and doing the best with what we have. to do that, we have to go out of our comfort zone because our comfort zone has not helped us this far. How we fuel our bodies is literally one of the basic principles of human survival. It is NOT our character. You are much more than that. but don't forget that science is real different of foods will fuel you differently. If you eat something that is not nutritionally dense and you feel like crap move on and eat something different at your next meal.
This might be a bit strange. I have been recovering four and a half years. I recently stopped eating foods I just don't like, but ate them for the sake of recovery. I now have more dairy alternatives that suite my taste. I stopped eating oatmeal. I also eat more fish and I am learning to cook curry dishes. I am so tired of eating cheese and oatmeal. I don't like either option. I don't like dairy milk. I am not a vegetarian or a vegan. I eat beef, chicken and eggs.
That's not strange at all, we all have preferences :) I also prefer dairy alternatives, and occasionally eat dairy and meat products because I think I have became lactose intolerant? (stomach discomfort) but also because I have just naturally outgrown the taste of dairy and meats.
Ii started watching Alice's videos, and honestly, I want to thank her (if you're reading this, Alice!!!) The only thing i disagreed with was the vegan diet, and how often she said she was on it- just proved to me I will never be "recovered" AND "skinny." Stephanie Buttermore's All In has saved my life (based on the book No Period, Now What- would recommend!!!) That's the only reason I stopped watching Alice's videos (sorry Alice!), but I definitely needed her when I first started, to get myself to at least consider recovery.
I have never written a comment on TH-cam, but I couldn't stop thinking about this video for a couple reasons... As someone recovering from an eating disorder and being a vegan myself, I want to emphasize that eating a whole foods plant-based diet is not a form of restriction. Since the day I went vegan, I have never craved animal products and I know with certainty that I never will again. I allow myself to eat whatever I crave, and animals products are just not part of that. Furthermore, consuming less refined sugar has enormous health benefits, as natural sugar has no addictive effect. Eating a lot of processed food can be detrimental to our gut and it also contains less nutrients than whole foods. I have watched all of Alice Olivia's videos and just to clear it up: she does not promote a restrictive diet but an abundance of food. Her message is that while following a WFPB diet, the body will automatically find back to its healthy set point. Of course set points are very individual (just like the recovery process itself), but I personally felt very inspired by her videos as they give me hope that I can lose weight in a natural and healthy weight after recovering from my eating disorder. (And I want to stress at this point that this is not my eating disorder "speaking" to me because the wish to live in my body at a healthy weight at which I feel good in my own skin is not tied to disordered thinking) In addition, a WFPB approach to recovery is not only the most beneficial for our health, but there are also ethical and environmental reasons we should take into account. (However, I understand that people feel triggered by the thought of cutting animal products out of their diet during recovery)
Thanku mia for this video, i myself have struggled with recovering and dealing with the weight gain where i have relapsed. Listening to this is hypocritical and very triggering. Thankyou for making this real and focusing on the truthes.
I understand everyone’s opinions on Alice and her videos but as someone who started recovery as a vegan, it it weren’t for her I never would have started recovery. Her videos helped me tremendously. I’m actually a little surprised that there is still a push from her on whole plant foods because if you see from her videos and posts she does eat a good amount of porocessed foods. Alice is an ethical vegan (a sis her boyfriend) and while I can see why people would think what they do from his, her diet really isn’t restrictive. She eats to satiation of vegan foods that can be burgers, fries etc along with Whole Foods as well
But that's what she promotes or comes off as,and she doesn't eat that much processed foods at all,she eats plant based things that looks like it,like banana ice cream,wich doesn't taste like ice cream at all,the point of the video wasn't to talk about veganism,but about how the fact that she promotes "whole foods recovery" is dangerous and not helpful at all!
R5 Zoeira BR in my opinion I think it’s an exaggeration to say it’s dangerous. Veggie burgers, fruit, rice and banana ice cream aren’t dangerous. If she was promoting only salad and raw vegetables, then yes absolutely that would be dangerous
I had never heard of Alice Olivia until viewing this but I think anyone who seeks to gain financially from something such as an eating disorder guidance programme where people are at their most vulnerable, they probably really need to analyse where their moral compass is and reevaluate the direction in which they are heading. I cannot believe that TH-cam allows this misguided perspective to be broadcasted, surely it can be taken down? It is very damaging content and the fact Alice Olivia has no credentials whatsoever is disturbing as well. I feel sorry for anyone who takes anything she says or has said in the past as gospel, because she is very misguided. Thanks again for the amazing content Mia always love watching your channel and I know it is going to be quality content x
I watched all of these types of videos during my recovery and I felt as though if I did the whole high carb vegan recovery I would keep my body within a weight that I deemed "acceptable" and safe. Before recovery I had been on a high fat diet for many years and enjoyed it but as my eating disorder worsened I became weary of how calorie dense fats were and slowly cut things out until I basically ate nothing but supplement powders and chewed and spit all foods. I spent a long time wanting to recover but not trying due to the fear of weight gain. I had been 270 at my highest and then started slowly losing in healthy way until I got to around 115 and then I went to extremes until I reached my lowest weight of 80 lbs. I finally got fed up and watching videos like those made me feel like I could recover and still be in a small body, even if it meant gaining at first. I switched over to a high carb vegan diet and initially lost a little weight just because I was still eating tiny portions and mostly veggies. As I increased my calories I became so tired and craved sugar constantly and began binging everyday, which lead to a few months of bulimia. I gained 30lbs in 2 months and became so depressed and tired, I barely left my bed. My whole body was swollen and it hurt to even walk. I started slowly going back to eating healthy, which I personally do love and then slowly back to my previous high fat diet. I immediately started feeling a lot better and got a huge increase in energy. I am now losing some of the weight very slowly and the swelling in my body has decreased a significant amount. I can feel my body and digestion getting better each day. I think a huge part of recovery is finding how your body functions best and still eating foods you enjoy while learning to love and heal your body while keeping in mind that any expectation you have about how your body will look and what recovery will feel like may be unrealistic. I see so often these videos where the girls are so happy and acting like their recovery was perfect, they stayed slim and ate whatever they wanted and life was amazing. While that may be the case for some it does not mean that it will be that way for everyone. My recovery was extremely hard and I am really only at the beginning, I still deal with restriction some days and obsessive exercise some days, horrible water retention, bloating that makes me look pregnant after even the tiniest meals. But, I know I am eating foods that make me feel the best I can right now and I think videos like these make you feel bad if you deviate from what most people are doing and make you feel like you are somehow not doing recovery "right" if it isn't a certain way. But, ultimately you have to figure what feels good to you because we are all so different. Don't feel like you have to recover the way other people did just because they had a certain experience that you are hoping for.
I followed Olivia's approach to recovering a couple years ago. I was a vegan who ate a lot in the beginning of recovery as a result of listening to my extreme hunger. I gained a lot of weight eating "healthy" plant-based foods, but that didn't bother me at first. While the months passed my extreme hunger kept torturing me. I couldn't get satisfied with anything, even thought I was logging in my food on cronometer to check if I was getting all the nutrients, which I was. A few months later the brain fog hit, the extreme ibs, heart palpitations and the muscle spasms. At around one year of my " vegan recovery" I had a relapse because I was still overweight and suffering with pain. When I hit my lowest point once again, I literally started dreaming about eggs. I contemplated leaving the vegan diet for weeks before I ate the first egg I've tasted in almost three years. I cried a lot, I felt like I lost a part of my identity. But leaving veganism was the greatest thing I could do about my recovery and my sanity. I'm ten months into a real recovery this time, eating like a normal person and feeling great (still healing my digestion). My body needed a ton of nutritionally dense animal foods in order to rebuilt itself. You can eat all the spinach you want but those nutrients will never be completely absorbed. I still respect animals and I am grateful of what they give us. I unfollowed Alice because now I can see clearly she is not preaching from a place of acceptance and recovery.
you are a good example that when it comes to makeup, less is more. love the lack of eye makeup. always been appreciating that sort of thing. always stick to it
Hola It’s NOT a diet. That’s terrible that people say that now. If you live in an area with full vegan options, there are no limitations (just as easy example: Chocolate, Sauces, Joghurts [...] there is always a vegan option). Since years I never felt that I have limitations, I am not on a diet 😃! I just feel good and it actually helped me recovering for several years (except of this point, I am logically agree with Mia of course)!!
Plant-based/Vegan is just as much of a diet as SAD. ( aka - not a ”fad-diet”) It's a choice of living and eating. Just because you exclude dead animals and their secretions does not mean you are restricting... One can simply not deny the overwhelming amount of evidence that animal products (and highly processed products) negatively impacts the human organism long term. If you think of something as restrictive ofc that is going to impact you negatively. Mindset/the way we view things affect us significantly. Olivia is not saying everyone will or need to look like her. That is an ridiculous statement made in this video. every individual is different wight and body composition. But, we should not fool ourselves into thinking obesity is healthy or a natural state for humans to be in. Obesity is an unfortunate disease people develop because of a failing food system, and it's killing people - just like eating disorders do. Companies have engineered food to be highly addictive to humans. Sugar-fat-salt are highly stimulating ”food” -- this is not some diet culture bullshit. This is human evolutionary physiology & psychology. Read come legit literature on it. People need to educate themselves not just to read clickbait diet culture articles on diets, superfoods, and life hacks, those things will destroy their health and lives. Don't get me wrong I can see why someone would think it is restrictive. In my opinion they are not educated on the topic and they don't see the whole picture. But that is MY opinion, we live in a world where everyone is entitled to their own views/ideas. - we should do so by educating ourselves and make informed decisions. And not just pick and choose the information that enforces our narrative.
@@madeleinegustafson2512 I think if you choose to be vegan for ethical reasons, its a way of life, but if you choose it as a way to solve disordered eating, imo that makes it a "diet". Its really hard to give up animal products long term if you aren't doing it for moral reasons! For the average person, going vegan involves cutting out (or altering) probably 50% of the foods they eat, so it is restrictive in that way. I think you can be super healthy on a vegan diet, but I think someone with disordered eating should focus on overcoming the psychological side of things before making other big lifestyle changes - after that, hopefully they'd be able to be healthy on any "diet" :)
It IS a diet. Alice is talking about Whole Foods plant based which is different than just a plant based diet. WFPb restricts vegan junk food where as Plant based does not. Plant based just means it’s vegan. Whole Foods plant based means it’s from a plant AND minimally processed. You can eat a Beyond Burger on a Plant Based diet but not on a WFPB diet. Yeah, confusing I know but there’s a difference. Bottom line is WFPB is very restrictive and just plant based itself is not because you can still have all the vegan “junk food” and meat substitutes.
I saw this the other day, and it did ring a little off to me - thank you for putting into words the vague unease I felt but couldn't quite put my finger on. Thank you for everything you do - you've helped more than you could ever know.
That’s why you are truly amazing Mia. I totally agree it’s a total oxymoron to promote recovery whether it’s eating disorder or diet by promoting certain foods as being off limits and promoting plant based vegan diet, which in my anecdotal experience of 4 years vegan made me unwell as you have to do what works best for you as we know well that a one size fits all approach doesn’t exist, and if it wasn’t for my recovery team asking me to make changes then I’d never be in the best physical and mental health I’ve been in years and now doing online support with b-eat to hopefully help others. I haven’t heard Minnie-maud mentioned much in the recovery space for quite a while so I’m confused by that statement. I think she has good intentions and always seemed to have a good heart to me and wants to help others find what she has , but can’t see how her message is very dangerous and as you rightly said in the recovery community we don’t have any space for error as eating disorders have the highest mortality rate for a very real reason and to do so without any qualifications in any of the areas she speaks of could get her in very real trouble if things were to go wrong and obviously the impact on the many viewers who follow her. Sending blessings and hope you and your family are all well and safe at this difficult time
Thank you so much for this. I know her intent has always been good but I often found her as a way to trigger myself under the guise of trying to inspire further recovery. I find her to be a lovely person but extremely toxic to those recovering :/
Honestly, I can see both sides here but I like Alice Olivia and, for me, her approach works better because I want to look and feel my best while fueling my body with an abundance of healthy plant based foods. I realize there’s not a one-size-fits all approach for recovery but I generally think a lot of what Alice says makes sense.
I'm really glad I found this video because tbh I'm not too educated on recovery yet and I probably wouldn't have found anything wrong with the video, but you made me realize the flaws with what she is saying and how listening to that could be harmful to my recovery
I just wanted to thank you for this video. I do think it is important to help people think critically about the advice they may be following. I also appreciate that you acknowledged the inherent economic privilege of being able to cut out entire food groups. I've seen a few of Alice's videos in the past and the focus on physique and food limitations have never set right with me. If some people are helped by her work that's great, but I am not comfortable with the judgement of people in larger bodies. I know that the MM guidelines were very helpful in my recovery, and Alice's criticism of the method seems mostly based on the idea that it could lead to people being unhealthy (read "unhealthy" = fat). I wish more people would explore thinks like HAEs and body positivity, and really reflect on society's (and their own) bias against people in larger bodies. For many, it is a major factor in staying stuck in quasi-recovery. Anyway, thanks again for this video and all your work to get the recovery message out there.
Sadly, ED recovery influencers who hold ED views and who have not recovered completely from their own ED are a very real thing
You are so right. There are many recovery people in the online space who are really encouraging and are providing a HAEs or anti-diet perspective who are so very helpful. But there are also people who are in the hazy quasi-recovery realm supplying information that is not helpful. I've watched A.O.'s videos in the past, and all of the body/weight focused talk and the "only healthy" plant-based food focus struck me as odd for a recovered person. I could also do without the thinly veiled judgments against people in larger bodies disguised as concern for their health. So, I avoid her videos for the most part, and understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions and are free to listen to what she has to say. Her message just doesn't resonate with me and I worry could be detrimental to others.
My favourite thing my therapist ever did for me was saying 'okay, well let's see if that happens and if it does we'll see how that makes you feel' in regards to my fears about gaining more weight than my eating disorder deemed acceptable. By the time I actually got to that weight I'd done so much work in recovery that it just didn't matter to me anymore. It stopped the spiral of fear that was going to prevent me from recovering with the comfort that those fears will be addressed if I needed them to be and shifting the focus away from weight. That's how you help prevent relapse due to fear of weight gain, not by playing into what the ED wants but by shifting the focus
YES. This sums up so beautifully how the long term recovery process plays out when it is effective. Thank you Chloe, this is IT.
@@WhatMiaDidNext This comment, and this video, in particular, your specific comments about not just eating more but the "deeper much more valuable part of recovery... Unpacking your beliefs about your body... food... That the body isn't the problem" and about you unpacking weight gain fears with your clients definitely resonate with what I continue to need as part of my recovery team. I think you have insight into this and Ed intricacies and yet my existing treatment team (psychologist and psychiatrist) might not have the insight into it that you do. Do you have any places available for new clients? (or is there presently a wait list?). Thanks for the amazing, real, spot on content! You're so valued by those of us who struggle frustratingly to understand ourselves and also have people understand us too!
what a wonderful therapist!
My family always keeps saying "oh but you won´t gain so much that you would be chubby or so - just trust me, I know you!" as they are trying to reassure me - I know they think that saying this would help me but truth is noone fucking knows where my body wants to settle at, the important part about this is that IT IS OKAY if it´s going to be a "larger body" / "chubby" ! IT SHOULD BE OKAY AND IRRELEVANT. Not gaining "too much" should not be a focus / marker of recovery. And the message that "you won´t gain too much, you will never be chubby, you will always stay slim" - even if it comes from a place of trying to calm someone - does more harm that good, at least for my eating disordered mindset. It´s sad, that this message is so common, even under professionals who are treating Eating Disorders.I am really trying to change my mindset and it would be so much more beneficial if someone would say something like your therapist did to you instead of this "trust me, you won´t gain that much".... I am so grateful that the people in this community understand what´s the problem about all those messages and what´s the most crucial part of recovery: shifting the mindset from trying to control your body to LETTING IT BE, WHATEVER SHAPE IT WILL END UP IN. Shifting the mindset to stop the assessment around body weight and food. None of this "You are only allowed to do ___ IF you are ___ " bullshit. It should not be considered a privilege to eat processed foods or whatever. The permission to eat (even processed foods and so on) should not be linked to anything - it should be UNCONDITIONAL. That is so important... At least that´s my opinion if I listen to my "healthy self". And I struggle with it every single day.
Exactly!!! I say this at my therapy but people get too butthurt to take on any feedback... So that's what I'm living by (trying to! Currently having a "i look like shyte" moment but yeeeh)
Wow!! I didn’t expect so many people to resonate with this! Big love to all of you 💜
Being a vegan myself I just want to clarify that the definition of veganism is: "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose" and is not centered around the food in itself (if that makes sense). Veganism is a lifestyle and an ethical choice and although eating non-animal foods is a part of it, it's not the end goal. I hope this doesn't come across as whiny, because that is definitely not my intention!
Side note, Becoming a vegan has also helped me after my eating disorder to show more compassion towards other living beings and shifting the focus from food and my body to becoming a more open minded and loving person in general.
edit: Also I don't think veganism should be used as a cover-up for disordered behaviour or dieting because that is just not what veganism is about.
Always lots of love to you Mia! Thank you for all you do!
I love this comment, Rebecca. Thanks for posting it. Important for people to see.
I agree. Veganism is what helped me recover from my ED. I'm actually eating more now than when I ate omni during my recovery! It is absolutely possible to recover while vegan and this doesn't necessarily mean we all have orthorexia either. I do appreciate a lot of Mia's points, especially about Alice's accreditation and privilege.
I feel the same way. I don't really think about animal products as "food" any longer, so it doesn't feel tied to my ED. I became vegetarian before developing an ED, and I'm vegan now after recovery. The difference between then and now is that I can eat what my body feels like eating without questioning it, without thinking about the calories, or without thinking about weight gain. It's not really tied to the vegan options feeling "safer", but rather, they're what food means to me. I don't choose a seitan burger because I think it's "healthier", but because I don't want to eat animals and don't register them as food. I will still eat my burger fried in oil, with vegan cheese, with sauces, etc. - no restrictions. That being said, I understand that in the current narratives around plant-based diets, people can register vegan foods as being the "healthier" choice, the choice that is going to keep you "fit", etc., and entangling it within ED-driven thought patterns, in which case it doesn't help recovery at all. I'm also aware that following a vegan lifestyle has to do with privilege, and that not everyone may be able to switch even if they'd want to.
Would veganism be a disordered choice if chosen for "health reasons"? (for ex. if i said i won't consume dairy because it causes pimples, or i won't consume meat because it is full of saturated fats)
I'm not implying those statements are true, they're my personal and maybe disordered belief.
Tripodologia Felina I’ve never seen someone express exactly the way I feel on this! Animal products aren’t food to me anymore after 7+ years vegan, so not eating them doesn’t feel like restriction. Being vegan taught me to treat myself with the compassion I believe everyone deserves ❤️
I went in recovery from anorexia almost a year and a half ago and did so in a bigger body, which is terrifying. I had no help, no guidance, no doctors, no one took me seriously, so I turned to certain youtubers (like Mia) for some positive encouragement. I ended up stumbling onto Alice Olivia's videos and I found the video where she talks about how you can lower your set point if you don't eat a certain kind of diet. Fortunately, I was so fed up with my ED and diet culture, that I never watched another video of hers again.
To any person in recovering in a larger body: I might lose weight, I might stay at this weight forever, I don't know. I really don't. And not knowing that does not scare me anymore. Because at the end of the day, I am the biggest I've ever been, and I am also the healthiest and happiest I have ever been, mentally and physically. I eat the food I want to eat, I exercise when I want to, and I love my body fiercely. I wish you all the best, and I know that it's hard to feel home in a body that everyone tells you is the enemy, but it's home, and it's not bad or evil and it does not need to be changed.
Thank you for your comment! It spoke to me so much I actually took a screen shot! You give me hope. ♡
L W 🤍people like you are helping me chill out abt myself. i didn’t read her rhetoric as bullshit a year ago and wish that i had. thank you for calling it out:)))
I just want to say how incredibly strong I think you are for pushing through. Thank you for sharing your story, and thank you for the amazingly encouraging words ❤
You're amazing! I'm also recovered/recovering in a larger body and I absolutely love my body now!
I know I'm late to responding (rewatching the video) but I just want to say thank you for this comment ❤
I'm currently in the same boat recovering in a larger body and its (like you said) scary as hell. But I know the longer i stick with it the easier it will get ❤
This video opened my eyes quite a bit, not only about the video you are talking about, but also about videos that a lot of youtubers make nowadays. I never payed much attention to it, but with so many 'what I eat in a day' videos, there is a picture in the thumbnail of that person showing their abs. Things like that do give you the suggestion of 'if you eat like this, you will look like this', while every body is so different and will react different. And then we're not even talking about the video itself, but just the thumbnail.
I really appreciate videos like this, that help me shift my mindset, but also help me question the things we see as 'normal', but are actually not helping my recovery. Thank you!
yep!!! it's like indirect messaging, but oh no they cant take responsibility for it because they never actually SAID the words 'if you eat like this you'll look like me'. It's actually crazy how much of this content is out there and how it just seeps into our brains without us even realising
This is the scariest thing about social media and why creators seriously need to be responsible when putting content out there. Thankfully I discovered Mia's channel a good few years ago now - I can see through "what I eat in a day" bull💩 ect glad you have discovered this also
Yes!!! What I eat videos were my lifeblood when I was at my worst, and it's crazy how few people I see talking about how terrible these vids can be. Sometimes i look back at this content and realize how obviously disordered the people posting them are, and I'm sure their audiences are too. It's really nutty how captivated I used to be by these videos.
She charges for guiding people one-on-one without a certificate/title?! That's extremely dangerous. That's enough for me to not trust a person.
“If I looked like you, I couldn’t have done it”. EXACTLY. I’m so glad you articulated why her video was so incredibly triggering. I really needed this.
I realised in uni that I hadn’t recovered from my disordered eating and body dysmorphia. During dance classes I’d find myself running to the toilet in a panic and not understanding why - until I looked in the mirror and felt that familiar feeling in the pit of my stomach. I don’t have a small body, I never ever will because my body is not made to be that way, but it’s so extremely hard to cope and remember that MY BODY IS NOT BAD with people like Alice. Thank you for your content Mia, and for having the courage to just speak your mind even if it makes people uncomfortable-it’s more than needed.
I have noticed that ANY restriction makes me relapse in some kind of way, even “healthy” changes, fighting to get better and better ✨ Lots of love to y’all ! ❤️🙌 We can do this 💫
From dieting to orthorexia. We even can pay for it, lucky us...*eye rolls*
This is precisely what I was thinking.
Recovering in bigger body is different than recovering in a smaller body. It's so incredibly insidious to me and my recovery this notion that my body could have a smaller set point if I am plant-based and don't eat processed food. It's literally a lie. A lie I struggle everyday to not beleive. It's reenforcing this lie so deeply engrained in me, and holy shit reenforced by someone who claims to promote recovery, that it's possible for me to be in a smaller body and be well mentally and physically. Even more so that it's my fault for not using her diet to have a smaller body. It's a lie. I literally followed this exact advice and diet with the promise of thin body and relapsed back when I would watch vegan TH-camrs, and convinced myself it wasn't bad for recovery... All under the mask of, I'm just healthily eating everything under these restrictions. I will never have that experience of recovering into a body that society accepts, and anyone who suggests that is harming those of us who just cannot have a small body healthily. Which is ALOT of people, especially POC. (colonialism and beauty standards/which bodies are acceptable people, hope we're all well educated on this) This is suggesting my body isn't ok. This is not recovery. The recovery community should be for everyone recovering from dieting, restrictive eating and eating disorders. Just so insidious, to say this to people she is aware are already disordered.
@Catalina C. it's so fucking hard. My heart truly feels for you. It's such a difficult lie to not beleive. It's renforced everywhere we turn. I want the recovery communtiy to actually be for everyone recovering. We need more fat, IBPOC, poor, chronically ill and generally marginalized people at the forefront of recovery communties. But that isn't who gets the most veiws or attention, for obvious reasons. Sending you so much love. Living in a marginalized body is hard. And it's also beautiful to have a body that is actively resisting harmful structures.
@Catalina C. and you are so right, we CAN get there.
This comment really touched my heart. I am glad you're in a better place now. 90% of the vegan TH-camrs I see making videos nowadays are either suffering ED themselves or promoting ED. They don't even use oils! They adopt a diet (veganism) that's already so restrictive that it requires supplementation of nutrients supplied by the pharmaceutical industry, & then they further restrict, often eating "all raw" or "raw til some random time of day" or "high carb low fat." There are many medical reasons why veganism post-ED is suboptimal both nutritionally & emotionally. Putting your body through trauma of high-fiber, low nutrient foods when you have low stomach acid is a recipe for discomfort, as well
I've seen these terms ("larger body", "smaller body") a lot on the internet lately. I'm just wondering how these are defined outside of the extremes. We know perception of self can be wonky. BMI is debatable.
she literally had a BMI of 25 and gained up to 164 and now weights around 140 so she was well above her set point and felt very uncomfortable if I remember correctly lol
minute 18: the most significant response to “approaches to recovery” such as hers. EDs are NOT just about the body. i do appreciate that this is a young woman who feels she has a solution, but honestly, she is as much “recovered” as people who use the food-addiction/abstinence approach to eating disorders and diet recovery.
This is so bizarre. This is the kind of content I absolutely absorbed at the height of my illness, because it speaks to such a deep denial. I would have loved it! You mean I can keep engaging in restrictive and disordered behaviour but claim the motivation is health and recovery?! Huge red flags.
I did exactly this when veganism was getting popular in 2015 with all the high carb youtubers. Got totally sucked into the idea that I could eat vegan and everything would be fine and I was healthy now. Never recovered, still stuck, yay 😂
So right, it’s so fucking dangerous as a trusted individual to spread unsolicited advice. She’s not being very self aware, using words like ‘leading down the wrong path’ as If that’s what we need to hear!
I remember watching her during my recovery and her content has helped me a lot! But the whole point about „eating in abundance but only whole food plant based etc.“ has always triggered me.. I guess I kind of got her point but I remember trying to recover like that and beating myself up for eating something processed. Overall I was luckily able to just take all the information from her videos that were resonating with me while regarding the rest but not everyone is in a mental state to do that and that can be so harmful! thank you for making this analysis!
the “abundance” language and veganism takes me right back to the high carb low fat fruitarian vegan trend/cult in 2014/2015
it's still alive and well and her channel is very similar to freelee's messaging if you think about it.
Yes!!!!
Yes! Full of men and women starving them selfs, women losing their periods and having hormone issues (claiming it’s normal and just detox) and looking sickly! So sad
Yeah it's just repackaged Freelee really
@@syerra7520 That's not because of veganism at all,that's because of their restrictions and crazy diets!
This girl kept me in quasi for 7 months. I was miserable. Thinking I was recovering while I just super focus ok whole food only, developed extremely strong ocd around oil touching something. Yes I gain weight and got my period back but it felt like a nightmare of being controlled by food. Always looking for the ingredients to see if there is no non whole food, being super scared of food. I really think Alice is juste following another diet, a whole food diet which may be beneficial AFTER recovery but never WHILE recovering. I made the step to finally let all of my food rules go, and within 3 days almost all of my Ed voices around food juste vanished. I feel extremely free and normal. If you are in recovery you should not be focusing on whole food. Mental freedom and putting all food on the same step in extremely important. I will never follow her again.
Me too. How the hell do you eat unrestrictedly whilst actively limiting food group? Ridiculous. Eat what tf you want
I came across Alice Olivia's channel early into my recovery. Her promotion of a plant-based diet in recovery was triggering. Her "bikini haul" video bizarrely displaying her very thin body to her audience of eating disorder sufferers sent me into a restriction spiral. I unfollowed her. Her channel is not totally helpful, in my opinion, for people at a vulnerable place in their recovery or people not interested in a vegan diet.
"triggering", really????
As someone who is a vegan for ethical reasons and recovering from disordered eating, her video triggered me. Her message was harmful and it’s just another form of ED. Thank you for making this video and educating us. It really helped me!
Reading the comments I see many people saying what was on my mind during this video. I agree with Mia 90%, but take issue with ethical vegetarian/veganism being conflated with disordered eating disguised by the "plant based for health" crowd. For an example on TH-cam, consider the difference between Jenna+Julien or Unnatural Vegan, and any of the high-carbers.
I totally understand that many people can't have any sort of rules in their recovery, and totally support that! But plant based eating from ethical concerns doesn't equal disordered eating.
Yes agreed exactly what I was thinking. There is a huge difference between eliminating foods because of ethical reasons than restricting them because of rules that come from a disordered mindset. I think it really depends on the reason why someone is turning to a vegan diet.
@@vhangel36 I totally agree and was about to point this out - if the person wasn't vegetarian/vegan and then turns to vegetarianism/veganism in recovery, I see the issue there for sure, especially since the vegan community can have some pretty restrictive/critical/damaging mindsets about what's 'okay' to eat (often due to moral policing, not calorie concerns).
But if you were always vegetarian/vegan, that seems different. I was vegan for 9 years and am still vegetarian, and no way would I want to eat meat, not because I'm worried about calories (as others have pointed out, 'vegan' doesn't automatically = healthy or skinny!), but because I don't morally agree with it for myself personally (and no, I don't judge meat eaters if anyone's wondering).
However, I think it's probably really difficult to tell what your reasons are if you've been eating restrictively for a long time and have eating disorder issues... Probably a highly personal decision that you'd have to be really careful with. Doesn't seem like a great idea to GO vegan/vegetarian in recovery if you were eating meat before. Maybe a better idea to leave til after recovery, when you can be clear about your. motivations with yourself. I do worry about spending time in the vegan community if you've had an ED, because many people ARE very judgemental about what you eat and DO encourage a very restrictive, rule-based mindset and WILL yell at you if you aren't 'vegan enough'.
Yes, veganism when done from a non-ED mindset is dope! But the clips in this video show that a large part of her decision to be plant-based seems to come from a desire for weight control. That's when we stop talking about ethical veganism and starting going into ED territory again
@@inaraykova Totally agree! I do see a lot of advocates failing to make this distinction, and painting it all as disordered, unfortunately. I'd love to see some more nuanced discussion on this topic.
It was not conflated with disordered eating. It was conflated with being a diet and with being antithetical to Recovery. Veganism IS a diet. Diets, restrictive eating, food rules ARE all antithetical to ED recovery.
I have followed you for years and you have always helped me so much through my recovery, because of how well-spoken, educated and nuanced you are about eating disorders and your approach. Thank you for speaking out when things are not right and might be dangerous for people who suffer from eating disorders. You are amazing Mia
Alice, I have a Bachelor if Medical Science (Honours) and in that degree, I studied pharmacology, neuroscience, haematology-To name a few. But that doesn’t mean I can then give people advice on their blood work. It doesn’t mean I can dispense medicines or suggest therapy for anything neurological. What Mia has said in the video outlines the aim of recovery accurately. Here, we’re a close community and we support each other with all of our differences and our challenges. We don’t talk about numbers, we don’t aim to fall into a societal “norm”-we’re aiming for beyond that. A freedom from restriction of any kind and a life where we love ourselves freely, openly, and limitlessly.
I believe when she says "Minnie Maud" she refers more to intuitive eating or "All in"-approaches, that are actually pretty popular right now.
Great video! I am so over people charging for their (equally disordered) plans to heal people that need actual help...
She might mean that, but that's definitely not what Minne Maud is intended for. It's been bastardized into some binge fest free-for-all by vids like Stephanie Buttermore eating ice cream from the carton in her bath tub. It's quite disgusting tbh. What's being called "intuitive eating" now on YT is selling the dream that "unlimited binging is 100% healthy" to people who may be suffering ED either based on restriction or binge eating
@@scarlet8078 I think the point with Stephanie is that she was so physically and emotionally unhealthy with her previous eating habits that she wanted to give herself total free reign to override those belief systems. She states often that she won't continue to binge as her hormones balance out and her hunger levels do so also which is what intuitive eating is. She is also fit, kind, and curvy, and if she is happier that way then good for her! She is still healthy! There is a negative health element to bingeing overall but she does have a pretty balanced diet that includes 'junk' food. I also agree that some have to remove restriction altogether to understand that the world doesn't end based on a change in body size or eating habits as that is a disordered value system.
@Scarlet I’m going to point out for everyone reading there is absolutely nothing wrong with eating ice cream out of a container in your bathtub. It’s all part of intuitive eating. You don’t know what’s good for one person just because it’s not what you do.
I think calling what someone is doing "disgusting" is quite disgusting on your part, actually. All in and Stephanie Buttermore has literally saved my life. Yes, what you may call a "binge" is exactly what my body and mind needed- and you know what? My periods are back and my brain now functions. Just because someone is "eating ice cream in the bath-tub" or whatever small piece of detail you picked up without watching her WHOLE video PLUS her background, you can't judge. If you have not suffered from an eating disorder, I am happy for you. And if you have but are still saying this, then you probably need to rethink where you are getting your guidance to recover.
Honestly, going vegan was one of the pivotal steps forward in my own recovery from disordered eating, because for the first time I was basing my food choices off something besides what would make me fat or skinny. However, I'm not advocating this as a method for other people, and I eat a wide variety of vegan foods, including the cheap ones (rice, beans, potatoes and broccoli) to the more expensive ones like vegan ice cream (and I'm aware of the many privileges I have that allow me to eat this way, including access to a kitchen, to grocery stores that supply these foods, and the money I use to buy them)
TheLostPumpkin I really relate to this! I'm slowly working towards vegetarian, and just removing a few meats fro my diet has forced me to make a decision completely alternate to my eating disorder, creating new wats to interact with it. I have a close friend who has done the same, when I visited the dietitian she said it is very common in eating disorder recovery & provides a sense of control without restrictions or purging.
It was the exact same for me, for the first time the value of food was no longer based on the number of calories, but on whether or not it was ethical to consume.
❤️🙌
I had always gotten an uncomfortable feeling when I watched Alice Olivia's content. Decided just to separate myself from her videos. Very glad to see that it wasn't just myself thinking these things.
I hate the kind of fear and shame mongering that is often installed in people going into ED recovery about gaining "too much" weight, or binge eating. One of the first things my psychologist discussed with me when I was in inpatient treatment was how I was going to eat more and gain weight without falling into the common trap of binge eating (which had never been a symptom of my ED). It scared me at much at that point that I was even more reluctant to commit to recovery! Such a damaging message on many levels.
So she's going to help people recover from dieting by putting them on a diet?
IMO it's one thing for someone who has been in recovery for a long time to consider veganism for ethical reasons, but veganism as a means of weight control is not recovery!
In my early recovery, I watched this girl nonstop and thought if ate foods that weren’t “whole food plant based” all the time (like if I included oil, sugar, etc) I would go above my set point n be unhealthy ):
same. i followed her (and freelee ughhh) pretty closely for the 16 months that i was deep in my early quasi/orthorexic "recovery"
same here:/
Me too. And it caused me to actually eat more because I wasn’t honoring what my body was craving. It definitely hindered my recovery... :(
Just like the eating disorder is never solely about the food, veganism was never either. Veganism has never been a diet! 🌿❤️
This idea of plant based, minimally processed abundance fed directly into my disordered eating. I coped with how restricted my diet was by eating huge amounts of veggies, way past satiety, which then developed into bingeing on 'processed' foods too. And because there was this idea that in order to keep your set point low you need to maintain a 100% 'minimally processed' diet, I had even more guilt about bingeing, feeding into binge/restrict and purge cycles. But initially, I was convinced that I had a healthy attitude to food because I wasn't restricting the amount like I had been before I was vegan.
This what happened to me word for word.
I used to watch her channel but ended up finding it really triggering. I see nothing has changed except that she is now aware of the fact that she is triggering and instead of changing her message is aiming to change her audience. interesting. Don't know how I feel about that. I think she has good intentions though
It looks Like she’s taken this video down now off of her channel. In her four year recovery update video just a couple months ago she was saying how she eats way more processed food now and is a much more intuitive eater... seems like she’s still struggling to find her message and work through her own thoughts/experience
I was thinking the same thing when I watched her video and I was super confused.
she also claims that she's eating a lot of calories (+2500) as a standard for this pandemic time, but in her latest what I eat in a day she definitely didn't eat more than 2000.
Or maybe her values changed? It's okay to change your mind, if anything including more processed foods is considered more of a balance to most people.
@@eveeexx Calorie intakes can fluctuate, especially if you worked out one day and the next day you didn't. Sometimes i can eat 600+ more than i did yesterday depending on what i did, that isnt unusual.
@@miffygames9099 I get your point, but she didn't mean that. What she is trying to say is that she can eat a lot and stay slim. She specifically said she eats that amount of calories AT LEAST. (in this time of a pandemic, not your day to day life) But that's not the truth.
Wow. Okay. I struggled for years, delaying my full recovery because I was being misled by that whole orthorexia approach. Eating more but limiting what I ate. Recovery is about dropping any ideas about what human bodies should look like along with letting go of control. Recovery is not going from restrictions into another form of restriction! Gaining weight is part of the process. Having a smaller body is not the goal of recovery like what. This video blows my mind. If she wants to talk about healthy eating, it is ENTIRELY possible to do that separate from the topic of weight loss. Healthy eating should be about healing the body from the inside out, regardless of weight! If anyone has an audience of primarily people recovering from eating disorders, it’s crucial to switch the narrative away from weight loss and calorie counting. Thank you Mia for talking about this video! Much love ❤️
I can remember being this way when my eating disorder went from being severe to mild and thinking that meant I was the pinnacle of recovery. I how and realizes that she is not actually recovered
Nice video Mia! While Alice has definitely helped me through my personal recovery with an ED, you bring up some good points. For me, her way of eating was the only way I could truly heal my body after failing time and time again with various treatment centers. That being said, I could see how her content could be potentially triggering to others.
I think I’ve said this before in comments on your videos regarding veganism and recovery, but I feel it’s important to share my perspective and experience. I have recovered from an eating disorder while maintaining my veganism. Veganism is not a diet, it’s a lifestyle based on an ethical belief. Animal products are not food to me anymore after over 7 years. My perspective has changed, and eating animal products would be like eating a tree branch or a clump of dirt. It’s not restrictive to not eat items that aren’t food.
I agree that her emphasis on minimally processed may be a problem for those in recovery, as I had to learn to allow myself to eat processed vegan foods and not feel guilt over those choices, but her emphasis on a plant based or vegan way of eating is NOT inherently restrictive.
I find myself getting frustrated with what feels like a strong bias on your end against veganism as a valid belief to hold while in recovery. I think it’s short sighted and reductive to ignore those who are ethical vegans and have found success healing while maintaining their ethical beliefs.
Without veganism I never would have learned to practice self compassion and begin healing. It is not a restrictive diet, and literally saves lives (not just animal lives but human lives, mine included).
I really enjoy much of your content and want to support what you’re doing with your platform, but I am frustrated with your one dimensional take on veganism.
I'm really happy for you that you could maintain your veganism during recovery, but it's just not possible for everyone. I'm going to share my experience with you. When my anorexia started, I only focused on calories. Later, I cut out almost all carbs. Then one food or even food group after the other until there was not much left to eat and I also didn't really eat. For people like me it's extremely triggering to have rules around food and cutting out food groups is a huge step back into the ED which, as you know, would be life threatening. I'm also a very picky eater (mostly to plant based foods, except fish, I really hate the texture and consistency) and have tons of intolerances (only to plant based foods btw), so there already a lot of things I can't or just don't want to eat. If I went vegan, there would be even more foods I couldn't eat but the problem here is that I would make it a rule not to eat it, not because I'm intolerant or just don't like it. I'm working on limiting dairy right now, but I'm never going to cut it out completely, just like meat. I need to have the option to eat what I want. Just as an example, I stopped eating fish when I was about 11, I'm 26 now, but a few months ago I was curious if I would like it since I haven't tried it for so long. So I tried salmon, still hated it and I'm not going to try it again, but I have the freedom to try again if I want to. Having that freedom is super important to me because of how my ED started.
I totally understand where you're coming from, but for most people who struggle with an ED that's restrictive, I would say that being vegan for the time they're recovering isn't the best idea because you'd be confronted with foods you can't eat constantly and that can be super triggering. When you're out for dinner or just grocery shopping for example. I think it's best to keep every food group open during recovery and then ease your way into veganism if that's your goal. So again,I understand your point but I also understand Mia and if I had to choose I would take Mias side because I'd rathe be safe than sorry.
I agree with this . People just sometimes hate something that is good because it's a little different without looking into it.
Being plant based does help. I had a patient who cured her heart problems and high cholesterol through a plant based lifestyle and she was not overweight but suffered these problems due to eating a western diet. She did that because she couldn't afford the medication and doctors visits and dietitians that didn't help her. Yet people are just so against plant based eating and say it's restrictive when it really isn't because our body actually benefits from that kind of food.
Thank you x making this video. I m having a relapse in my eating disorder (because when I finally saw my boyfriend again after lock down he told me I put on some weight) and felt really confused when watching Alice's videos. I have a body tipe different from her, I naturally have wider hips so it triggered me to think that I will be recovered when I will reach a lower weight. I think she didn't realize how triggering her content can be but now she knows and I would appreciate if she deleted it so other people won't get triggered. (excuse my bad english, it's not my first language)
I have watched Alice Olivia's videos before. As a recovering anorexic, i definitely saw some red flags, and had a very iffy feeling about much of her dialogue. Thank you, Mia for addressing this!💜
2 years recovery from anorexia :)
Still working hard
Eating disorders are no joke
I have been up and down with my anxiety and own disordered eating, what Mia did next had LITERALLY saved my life! Thankyou so much for being a sounding board for recovery xxx
Thank you, Mia. Luckily, I stopped following Alice a time ago because I was feeling slightly triggered by her content the last months I saw her videos. I once followed her for recovery reasons but I am happy that I listened to my intuition because her message was not in line with what my vision of recovery is and I started feeling bad and anxious watching her videos. I am thankful that someone adresses the problem with the underlying message in content like that. I was feeling like I am the only one who doesn´t sit well with such input!
Though I had never heard of Alice Olivia until this response video, I am glad I watched it because your content is such a breath of fresh air amidst my own recovery journey. Because you have so authentically and genuinely faced your own recovery journey and now stand as a true advocate alongside others that are pursuing recovery and being fully recovered, your videos are laced with invaluable truths that powerfully contradict the eating disorder voice. Mia, thank you for putting out recovery-focused content that boldly, yet humbly brings correction to voices that are not demonstrating authentic pursuit of recovery. It is truly life-giving and encouraging!
I‘m super grateful you produced this video! I watched Alice’s video before and as I’m not super far in recovery yet, my
eating disorder wanted to make me believe everything she said although I actually knew that parts of what she says are harmful.
One of the thoughts that come up the most during my recovery is the question, why there are obese people, I mean like really unhealthy people, if the body wants to stay at a weight where it’s healthy and able to live a good life. That just doesn’t make sense to me and it terrifies me everyday. I’m a bit afraid of becoming unhealthy and obese after recovery (and I’m not talking to plateauing at a higher weight. That would be ok for me if I felt healthy and fit) as I have several family members who are so.
It would help me suuuper much if you could make a video on this topic and I’m sure I’m not the only one 🙏🏼
Thank you for sharing such important and amazing content ❤️
I haven't watched her videos for ages because I was stuck in quasi recovery watching her videos (I still am but those made it worse). I became obsessed with the idea that I could eat huge amounts of whole foods, gain weight for a bit and then eventually be thin again (I've never been naturally thin) but it just fueled my orthorexia. Dangerous messages. I'm still stuck in quasi recovery because it's so hard to unlearn this ideas :(
Although I am still vegan for ethical reasons and I honestly think this is okay for me personally as I have never used veganism to restrict the food groups I eat. If I'm restricting I do it vegan, if I'm trying to recover and eat in abundance all types of food deemed healthy and unhealthy, I've done that vegan too :)
I have a whole food plant based dieticien, not specialised in ED recovery but she's amazing. Even she is plant based she says eat everything your body craves for. Doesn't matter what. Really looks to me and what i need to recover.
Personally, Alice Olivia’s videos were some of the most helpful things to me when starting my recovery. She was the first person who ever said anything about set point theory. As someone who wasn’t able to get professional help, different recovery approaches were the most important thing for me to learn about. And she never claimed to have any certification or claimed to be able to cure me. But she did offer a support group and community of people going through something similar. Her channel along with Jen Bretty were really what opened the door to recovery for me.
thank you for this and for all the work you do, Mia. I'm so glad I saw this video before I saw Alice's original video - it would've sent my already tenuous ED situation down an even darker hole. I know how difficult it can be to call out harmful behavior, especially when it's seemingly well-intentioned, so major fucking kudos for your bravery here. just know how appreciated you truly are.
I switched to vegan about a year after being recovered and it hasn’t been hard for me. But literally nothing plant based is off limits and they are coming out with some really amazing plant based options. So ya, I eat my fare share of plenty of unprocessed foods lol
I'm the same, switched to being vegan about a year into recovery for ethical reasons (wanted to for about 3 years prior to actually switching, but recovery and my own personal mental well being needed to be my priority, so I waited) and it's worked great for me. Gained the rest of the weight I needed to gain eating vegan and literally nothing vegan is off limits. I've eaten more icecream and chocolate as a vegan than I ever did before even having an ED 😂
I also NEVER judge or try to dictate or comment on what other people are eating/ should eat because I KNOW. I know where I stood ethically and how much it hurt me to not just go vegan as soon as I wanted to. It's not fair to put that on someone else. Everyone is on their own journey and has their own priorities and accessibility needs. I understand veganism isn't for everyone but it's definitely for me, and I'm glad I recovered so that I can live alongside my morals now in my recovered body and mind😊
thank you so so much. i didn‘t even recognize since now how much this triggered me some time ago when i started recovery, but wow it was incredibly toxic
I watched a lot of this girl when I was hella deep in ED. Her messages are so mixed--supposedly pro-recovery but incredibly restrictive and obsessed with her own body and looks. I also think she is irresponsible because she is NOT a professional but portrays herself as one, selling her crap and "guiding" people. She strikes me as a narcissist and still disordered, and whether this is true or not, her content was the opposite of helpful for my recovery and I unfollowed her long ago. For what it's worth, I have the same feelings towards This Girl Audra, who I also used to watch when I was deep in it. These two are incredibly dangerous for people still suffering or who are actively pursuing long-lasting recovery.
Jennifer H couldn’t agree more especially about This Girl Audra. And I’m fairly certain that Alice Olivia has stated that whilst she was recovering initially she ate all vegan foods- junk food/unprocessed etc.
whoa I just looked at her channel and am quite concerned!!!
@@shannonb2569 Yeah, I remember her talking about "junk" food but only under the vegan category--which I understand, as I was vegan for a while myself and still have a lot of issues with the ethics of meat and dairy and eggs--but it seems more like she was doing the "negotiating with terrorists" thing. As in, she'll let herself eat, but only if it's X type of food. In other words, another type of restriction and a way to present herself as superior and knowledgeable, which is ridiculous because she sounds so uneducated when she speaks and just parrots the same things over and over "eat in abundance" "plant-based whole-food" etc.
This Girl Audra is another level. She's vegan, too, but... I know you can't judge someone's health by the way they look, but she seems to have compulsive exercise tendencies and it just hurts me to watch her. And she's another instance of showing off her body, which is incredibly counterintuitive for ED recovery and sends the terrible message of "If you recover to a non-skinny body, you are doing it wrong."
@@PluviophileTraveller Right? It's frightening and I hate that videos like that get recommended to vulnerable groups.
in one of my hopeless days alice's talks about "all in" had given me the strength i needed to go on eating as much food as i wanted, but i would be lying if i said the reason why i had taken her advise instead of that of anyone else wasn't for the fact that she looked so lean in her videos. i'm one of those being stuck in quasi-recovery for years, still looking for a way to end up skinnier while following a "pro-recovery" eating pattern, and thus have found alice's method very promising. i tried to eliminate all meat products and non-vegan processed foods out from my life for more than 1 month - then stopped it because such a "lifestyle" was so financially draining for me and didn't help with any of my food obsession. i just went from being obsessed with this thing to being obsessed with another thing.
i'm not blaming the damages i got on her, because it's my responsibility for not consulting with any dietician or recovery coach and only following advice given by a stranger on Internet - but this is exactly why content creators have to be cautious about what they publish. i assume there are a lot of people like me - living outside of the States, lacking the means to seek professional help (recovery coaching is not available where i live and finding one online is too costly for me) and thus would committing themselves to a non-personalized recovery method that seems to work on the internet - amongst her subscribers, which i wish she had taken into consideration before explicitly promoting the exclusion of a specific food group as the way to achieve one's (lower) set point. the thumbnails showing off her lean body are too skinny-baiting to be pro-recovery too.
i do admire alice for her courage and i'm glad that a vegan all-in approach has worked for her, but i have to agree that certain parts in her contents are triggering. her messages are positive and promising, but they hold high potential to have unintended effects on this very very vulnerable community.
Thanks Mia,
I am just looking at/starting recovery and the fear of weight gain and bigger body is very strong. Some words she uses and phrases i find very triggering. Recovering of atypical anorexia is going to be hard enough without this type of thing.
Thank you for mentioning the privilege!!! I get depressed sometimes seeing people eat these huge beautiful healthy meals 3+ times a day and thinking about how we can’t all afford to eat that way!!!
At the start of my own recovery, even I could tell this girl was toxic to all of us who were vulnerable. Hope one day she finds full food freedom and detaches herself from weight labels
thanks for this video. any kind of restriction is harmful, no matter how nice people wanna try to package it.
I am a part of the online community Alice has and it has changed my life. Her and the others are very supportive and that's is something I would pay for. She doesn't claim to be a therapists or dietician or a professional, in fact she states seeking professional care is highly recommended. She's essentially offering friendliness and connection and being exchange for it. I support her eating with Abundance with focus on earthly plants and whole foods for diet recovery. Diet recovery comes after eating disorder recovery. Choosing plant foods isn't restrictive when it's considered genuinely what that person wants. Great video for advertising alice. Low quality video for the bash.
alyssa dschaak Agreed!
Your response was simply wonderful. Thank you, experience is NOT accreditation, and lives are at risk.
my mental knee-jerk reaction was "here's how you recover from dieting: WITH THIS OTHER DIET!!" 🙄
I cannot stand how many unqualified talking heads on the internet are giving medical advice. Thank you Mia for being a voice of reason in the wind.
I wish someone would sue the hell out of all these 'nutrition coaches'. Its no wonder disorder recovery is so difficult when there's nonesense out there like this. So sad. I love you dearly Mia.
Coming from a past of Orthorexia (and still battling at times) I have been hearing about this Plant Based Abundance theme more and more and it was like calling my name LOL. Well, NOT ANYMORE. Thank you for really speaking TRUTH in this area and empowering viewers like me to cut through these false promises.
I'm a little confused because I really don't see that big of a difference between recovering from dieting or an eating disorder.
because the isn't that much,she's just saying that to make it look it is helpful at all,wich it isn't.
I am not a vegan but I dont think you understand her method or perhaps I didnt understand. But to my understanding she doesn’t restrict anything but animal products. She says she just eats healthy minimally processed foods as a base and then dumps whatever she wants on top of it. So if she wants pizza she may just choose to have a salad with it. At the end of the day, many people have eaten intuitive for their whole life and felt like crap because of their poor diet. And all intuitive diets eventually involve gentle nutrition. She was so helpful to me because I was terrified of recovering because it was my intuitive diet as a younger person that made me look into nutrition in the first place because I felt horrible and had no energy. So in my case I just ate healthy foods and dumped everything else on top of it. It was amazing and I finally was able to stop worry, relax, and now I feel completely free to eat anything I want! I don’t restrict, I add! She honestly was my key and I am so grateful to her! And for the record, I have a bigger, more curvy body, and I have come to love my beautiful body in partly thanks to her.
Thank you so much Mia for this video and your always thoughtful and critical analysis. You are absolutely right that recovery involves challenging our belief systems. I just want to put it out there, I am recovered from a long time ED and have moved into the world of clinical mental health support for those with EDs. After my bachelor degree, i was in no way qualified to provide support and advice to any clients. I really had to do a master degree with a specialization in this field to engage in recovery therapy and treatment. I agree that having lived experience is INVALUABLE, but this experience only gives you the capacity to tell someone what works for you, not what will work or them. Thanks again Mia, I love your videos, so insightful and critical :)
It bugs me when people bring up privilege in terms of eating plant based. Rice and beans and potatoes are some of the cheapest foods out there.
True but, It's not just about how cheap the food is, it's about access to said food. Also, if one only has access to food banks and unregulated food support, there is a great chance those items may not be available. Also, Vegtables, fruit and loads of protein/healthy fat sources aren't cheap and are not widely available.
Full freedom of eating food shouldn't have to conflict with morals. Plant based needs to be an option for recovery that gets put out there as not doing so makes some people refuse to even look at recovery.
I agree that she's still promoting restriction with whole food only mindset. As well as the weight gain/loss focus.
thank you SO MUCH for addressing access and socioeconomic status for so many people!! so freaking important.
Came here to say this! I am shocked by how many people do not even consider how much economic status influences and usually limits access to food. I'm not sure about the true status of Alice's recovery, but I do think recommending one recovery method for all people is ill-advised, even if individual finances didn't factor in, but IRL they do factor in and it is really short-sighted to not even acknowledge it.
It's illegal where I live to charge people for a profession that you don't have academic or legal classifications to give this information/charge people
Alice: are you trying to recover from dieting? Here, have this diet that I have disguised with the word 'recovery'
I love the video Mia. That you for covering such hard topics. It's really important to talk about stuff like this and being able to recognize that it's toxic.
First of all I want to say that I follow you both and enjoy both of your videos. While I agree with most of what you say, you gotta realise that in reality some methods work for others and some don't. I battled ED for over 20 years. Searching for answers I bumped into tabitha farrar method (now more known as all-in) and stayed patient for almost three years on it only to get larger and in the process also destroying my mental health, hating myself even more and have suicidal thoughts. Then I found alice olivia where (at least for me) things started to make sense and for the past year the majority of my diet has been plant-based and only then I make peace with myself and my weight finally stabilised / tapered. There is no absolute and especially for ED recovery sometimes you got to keep trying until you find what works for you. It seems to me putting up titles such as "this is harmful" sends out negative vibes even though your content and your meaning is good. To Alice Olivia: girl don't get distracted by critiques. Keep doing what you are doing.
Veganism is based on the belief that killing/harming/using animals is wrong, its a legitimate choice that doesn’t really have anything to do with dieting. Being vegan doesn’t mean that you have an eating disorder, however vegetarianism and veganism are often used by people suffering from eating disorders to justify or legitimize restriction.
I guess the bottom line is this - veganism and eating disorder recovery should ideally remain separate. Don’t use an eating disorder recovery platform to promote veganism. Don’t use a vegan platform to pretend you are an eating disorder specialist. If you are in eating disorder recovery, its probably not a good time to go vegan. Wait, be patient, let yourself recover and adjust to your new lifestyle before taking on another lifestyle change.
This was a great video, I don't often comment on them as I just nod along and agree with everything you say! But I really appreciate the message of health at every size and touching on the importance of individualism in process of recovery. It can't be stressed enough how important it is to get help from people who have the TRAINING to help you, we cannot afford to mess around with mental illness in such a casual way! Thanks Mia!
"Deeply misleading, dangerous and unethical" .... could not have put it any better. I was shocked to see her video. I am so grateful that i am far along into my recovery to see straight through it. I feel so scared for vunerable people who are at the start of choosing recovery that may fall victim to her advice. Such a shame that she has put this out there as "a method" to recover. Your video is spot on as always thank you x
Gosh I feel so confused after watching this. Her videos were a huge part of me deciding to recover...but I guess I realize now that, at the time, a big part of that decision was because I did have hope that I would be able to eat a lot (or at least eat a normal amount) and eventually be thin like her again. I'm six months in and tbh I felt like since I'm basically back to my pre-ed body, I was recovered. But I guess I really have not tackled the weight/society issues at all lol :( I guess my recovery was basically based on the fact that eventually my body will go back down in weight again >_< Anwyays thanks for this video. It gave my a lot to think about
Speaking from my own experience, I also think it's TOTALLY normal and valid for the content you consume and use for motivation to change over the course of your recovery! Don't let that make you second guess the amount of work you HAVE put in up to this point. Keep reflecting, keep allowing yourself to be curious. I believe in you x
i kept and kept figuring out what makes her appereance so glowing. everything is so clean and fresh
When I was recovering and binging, I saw her videos and since she said that if you eat processed food your body will never get to your natural set point I got further stuck on the restriction cycle since I would see processed food as “bad” and binge more on them. Her message was really really harmful at the time since it just made me more confused about food and made my binging worse, I ended up having to go with a psychiatrist since I couldn’t control my binges.
I dont think people should use a plant based diet for recovery. It puts the idea that not only do you have to stay minimal with the processed food (which you should probably eat as much as you want in recovery to get over those fear foods) but also gives the notion that butter, raw cheese, whole milk, meat, fish, eggs, etc. Are "bad" or "unhealthy" when these are the most nourishing and satisfying foods for your body. They are very important to eat especially if you have an eating disorder that has caused you to be nutrient deficient and imbalanced hormones. Also if you have been restricting and then go straight into eating an abundance of only plants it could potentially really damage your gut with all that fiber. I understand if you want to be vegan for the animals but during recovery YOU are more important than the animals.
Also with being vegan there is the side where you always have to be looking at nutrition labels/ ingredient lists, thinking about what you will eat at a friend's house, or constantly watching what I eat in a days to find new recipes and food ideas. An obsession with food.
This is SO true!!! Thanks for sharing! Funny enough I've just watched her video this morning and I had to stop it. And then you've uploaded this video and it helped me so much. So thanks a lot ❤️ best wishes from Germany 🥰
In my experience, (and of course this is my unprofessional personal opinion related to my experience having recovered fully from bulimia.) I understand what Alice is trying to say and I also agree with Mia when she pointed out and rephrased what Alice said into if I looked like you I wouldn't be able to have done it. These are very sensitive cases, a lot of gray area, and people can be triggered so easily however, I feel like people shouldn't have a " relationship with food" on any emotional level aside from nourishing and fueling your body. Which is of course easier said than done. The goal for my recovery was to be able to eat food without thinking about it and then move on with my day. basically I wanted my brain back as it was constantly hijacked with eating disordered thoughts. but at the same time feed my body things that would actually nourish it. I Sometimes feel like inpatient Rehabilitation is the only way (for many cases) because this is a mental disorder much like a drug addiction (we cant think our way out of it) it would require inpatient Rehabilitation. In fact, I recovered from my eating disorder while in inpatient Rehabilitation for a drug addiction and I made sure to inform all of my counselors how important it was to me that I get to the root of the problem because if I stopped one addiction the other would surely surface. they actually have a 12-step program for eating disorders. The common denominator between both addictions that I have seen is that we tend to seek happiness from outside sources whether that be the way we look or the way we feel. Or the way we feel because of the way we look. or whatever because we're running from the way we feel. the root of any recovery is to stop seeking comfort from outside sources and to love ourselves from within. How we go about doing that is the journey of recovery. in my experience I've had a life of extremes, binging and purging or starvation. Or being responsible tax paying hard-working individual versus completely off the rails wandering the streets without sleeping for days at a time. so for me, eating everything I wanted when I wanted it was just another extreme in line with all my others but restricting was very triggering as it could hijack my thoughts away from recovery. I do not capital letters do NOT believe in healthy at every size. it is a scientific fact that obesity is not healthy. and same thing on the opposite Spectrum. some people are naturally going to be heavier and some people maybe not. and we shouldn't Focus on how heavy or light. Or the size of our hips or thighs or the way we look at all in general, but instead focus on loving ourselves from within finding our gifts and talents utilizing them and doing the best with what we have. to do that, we have to go out of our comfort zone because our comfort zone has not helped us this far. How we fuel our bodies is literally one of the basic principles of human survival. It is NOT our character. You are much more than that. but don't forget that science is real different of foods will fuel you differently. If you eat something that is not nutritionally dense and you feel like crap move on and eat something different at your next meal.
Also, i think Alice's thumbnail is waaay too appearance focused.
Thank you so much for keeping those of us recovered/recovering in larger bodies in mind. ❤️🤗
Thank you for your voice and advocacy!!!!
This might be a bit strange. I have been recovering four and a half years. I recently stopped eating foods I just don't like, but ate them for the sake of recovery. I now have more dairy alternatives that suite my taste. I stopped eating oatmeal. I also eat more fish and I am learning to cook curry dishes. I am so tired of eating cheese and oatmeal. I don't like either option. I don't like dairy milk. I am not a vegetarian or a vegan. I eat beef, chicken and eggs.
That's not strange at all, we all have preferences :) I also prefer dairy alternatives, and occasionally eat dairy and meat products because I think I have became lactose intolerant? (stomach discomfort) but also because I have just naturally outgrown the taste of dairy and meats.
Helped me so much. In a poor mind set recently it’s hard to identify these bias opinions/claims made in her video, so thank you!
Ii started watching Alice's videos, and honestly, I want to thank her (if you're reading this, Alice!!!) The only thing i disagreed with was the vegan diet, and how often she said she was on it- just proved to me I will never be "recovered" AND "skinny." Stephanie Buttermore's All In has saved my life (based on the book No Period, Now What- would recommend!!!)
That's the only reason I stopped watching Alice's videos (sorry Alice!), but I definitely needed her when I first started, to get myself to at least consider recovery.
I have never written a comment on TH-cam, but I couldn't stop thinking about this video for a couple reasons...
As someone recovering from an eating disorder and being a vegan myself, I want to emphasize that eating a whole foods plant-based diet is not a form of restriction. Since the day I went vegan, I have never craved animal products and I know with certainty that I never will again. I allow myself to eat whatever I crave, and animals products are just not part of that. Furthermore, consuming less refined sugar has enormous health benefits, as natural sugar has no addictive effect. Eating a lot of processed food can be detrimental to our gut and it also contains less nutrients than whole foods.
I have watched all of Alice Olivia's videos and just to clear it up: she does not promote a restrictive diet but an abundance of food. Her message is that while following a WFPB diet, the body will automatically find back to its healthy set point. Of course set points are very individual (just like the recovery process itself), but I personally felt very inspired by her videos as they give me hope that I can lose weight in a natural and healthy weight after recovering from my eating disorder. (And I want to stress at this point that this is not my eating disorder "speaking" to me because the wish to live in my body at a healthy weight at which I feel good in my own skin is not tied to disordered thinking)
In addition, a WFPB approach to recovery is not only the most beneficial for our health, but there are also ethical and environmental reasons we should take into account. (However, I understand that people feel triggered by the thought of cutting animal products out of their diet during recovery)
Thanku mia for this video, i myself have struggled with recovering and dealing with the weight gain where i have relapsed. Listening to this is hypocritical and very triggering. Thankyou for making this real and focusing on the truthes.
I understand everyone’s opinions on Alice and her videos but as someone who started recovery as a vegan, it it weren’t for her I never would have started recovery. Her videos helped me tremendously. I’m actually a little surprised that there is still a push from her on whole plant foods because if you see from her videos and posts she does eat a good amount of porocessed foods. Alice is an ethical vegan (a sis her boyfriend) and while I can see why people would think what they do from his, her diet really isn’t restrictive. She eats to satiation of vegan foods that can be burgers, fries etc along with Whole Foods as well
Perfectly said.
But that's what she promotes or comes off as,and she doesn't eat that much processed foods at all,she eats plant based things that looks like it,like banana ice cream,wich doesn't taste like ice cream at all,the point of the video wasn't to talk about veganism,but about how the fact that she promotes "whole foods recovery" is dangerous and not helpful at all!
R5 Zoeira BR in my opinion I think it’s an exaggeration to say it’s dangerous. Veggie burgers, fruit, rice and banana ice cream aren’t dangerous. If she was promoting only salad and raw vegetables, then yes absolutely that would be dangerous
I knew there was a reason I didn’t vibe with Alice’s approach but I could never explain it till now
Yes, same!!!
Mia explains everything so articulately!
I had never heard of Alice Olivia until viewing this but I think anyone who seeks to gain financially from something such as an eating disorder guidance programme where people are at their most vulnerable, they probably really need to analyse where their moral compass is and reevaluate the direction in which they are heading. I cannot believe that TH-cam allows this misguided perspective to be broadcasted, surely it can be taken down? It is very damaging content and the fact Alice Olivia has no credentials whatsoever is disturbing as well. I feel sorry for anyone who takes anything she says or has said in the past as gospel, because she is very misguided. Thanks again for the amazing content Mia always love watching your channel and I know it is going to be quality content x
I watched all of these types of videos during my recovery and I felt as though if I did the whole high carb vegan recovery I would keep my body within a weight that I deemed "acceptable" and safe. Before recovery I had been on a high fat diet for many years and enjoyed it but as my eating disorder worsened I became weary of how calorie dense fats were and slowly cut things out until I basically ate nothing but supplement powders and chewed and spit all foods. I spent a long time wanting to recover but not trying due to the fear of weight gain. I had been 270 at my highest and then started slowly losing in healthy way until I got to around 115 and then I went to extremes until I reached my lowest weight of 80 lbs. I finally got fed up and watching videos like those made me feel like I could recover and still be in a small body, even if it meant gaining at first. I switched over to a high carb vegan diet and initially lost a little weight just because I was still eating tiny portions and mostly veggies. As I increased my calories I became so tired and craved sugar constantly and began binging everyday, which lead to a few months of bulimia. I gained 30lbs in 2 months and became so depressed and tired, I barely left my bed. My whole body was swollen and it hurt to even walk.
I started slowly going back to eating healthy, which I personally do love and then slowly back to my previous high fat diet. I immediately started feeling a lot better and got a huge increase in energy. I am now losing some of the weight very slowly and the swelling in my body has decreased a significant amount. I can feel my body and digestion getting better each day. I think a huge part of recovery is finding how your body functions best and still eating foods you enjoy while learning to love and heal your body while keeping in mind that any expectation you have about how your body will look and what recovery will feel like may be unrealistic. I see so often these videos where the girls are so happy and acting like their recovery was perfect, they stayed slim and ate whatever they wanted and life was amazing. While that may be the case for some it does not mean that it will be that way for everyone.
My recovery was extremely hard and I am really only at the beginning, I still deal with restriction some days and obsessive exercise some days, horrible water retention, bloating that makes me look pregnant after even the tiniest meals. But, I know I am eating foods that make me feel the best I can right now and I think videos like these make you feel bad if you deviate from what most people are doing and make you feel like you are somehow not doing recovery "right" if it isn't a certain way. But, ultimately you have to figure what feels good to you because we are all so different. Don't feel like you have to recover the way other people did just because they had a certain experience that you are hoping for.
I followed Olivia's approach to recovering a couple years ago. I was a vegan who ate a lot in the beginning of recovery as a result of listening to my extreme hunger. I gained a lot of weight eating "healthy" plant-based foods, but that didn't bother me at first. While the months passed my extreme hunger kept torturing me. I couldn't get satisfied with anything, even thought I was logging in my food on cronometer to check if I was getting all the nutrients, which I was. A few months later the brain fog hit, the extreme ibs, heart palpitations and the muscle spasms. At around one year of my " vegan recovery" I had a relapse because I was still overweight and suffering with pain. When I hit my lowest point once again, I literally started dreaming about eggs. I contemplated leaving the vegan diet for weeks before I ate the first egg I've tasted in almost three years. I cried a lot, I felt like I lost a part of my identity. But leaving veganism was the greatest thing I could do about my recovery and my sanity. I'm ten months into a real recovery this time, eating like a normal person and feeling great (still healing my digestion). My body needed a ton of nutritionally dense animal foods in order to rebuilt itself. You can eat all the spinach you want but those nutrients will never be completely absorbed. I still respect animals and I am grateful of what they give us. I unfollowed Alice because now I can see clearly she is not preaching from a place of acceptance and recovery.
you are a good example that when it comes to makeup, less is more. love the lack of eye makeup. always been appreciating that sort of thing. always stick to it
How can she tell people to recover from dieting by going on a plant based diet? Its just another kind of diet!! 🙄🙄🙄
Hola It’s NOT a diet. That’s terrible that people say that now. If you live in an area with full vegan options, there are no limitations (just as easy example: Chocolate, Sauces, Joghurts [...] there is always a vegan option). Since years I never felt that I have limitations, I am not on a diet 😃! I just feel good and it actually helped me recovering for several years (except of this point, I am logically agree with Mia of course)!!
Plant-based/Vegan is just as much of a diet as SAD. ( aka - not a ”fad-diet”) It's a choice of living and eating. Just because you exclude dead animals and their secretions does not mean you are restricting...
One can simply not deny the overwhelming amount of evidence that animal products (and highly processed products) negatively impacts the human organism long term. If you think of something as restrictive ofc that is going to impact you negatively. Mindset/the way we view things affect us significantly.
Olivia is not saying everyone will or need to look like her. That is an ridiculous statement made in this video. every individual is different wight and body composition.
But, we should not fool ourselves into thinking obesity is healthy or a natural state for humans to be in. Obesity is an unfortunate disease people develop because of a failing food system, and it's killing people - just like eating disorders do. Companies have engineered food to be highly addictive to humans. Sugar-fat-salt are highly stimulating ”food” -- this is not some diet culture bullshit. This is human evolutionary physiology & psychology. Read come legit literature on it. People need to educate themselves not just to read clickbait diet culture articles on diets, superfoods, and life hacks, those things will destroy their health and lives.
Don't get me wrong I can see why someone would think it is restrictive. In my opinion they are not educated on the topic and they don't see the whole picture. But that is MY opinion, we live in a world where everyone is entitled to their own views/ideas. - we should do so by educating ourselves and make informed decisions. And not just pick and choose the information that enforces our narrative.
@@madeleinegustafson2512 I think if you choose to be vegan for ethical reasons, its a way of life, but if you choose it as a way to solve disordered eating, imo that makes it a "diet". Its really hard to give up animal products long term if you aren't doing it for moral reasons! For the average person, going vegan involves cutting out (or altering) probably 50% of the foods they eat, so it is restrictive in that way. I think you can be super healthy on a vegan diet, but I think someone with disordered eating should focus on overcoming the psychological side of things before making other big lifestyle changes - after that, hopefully they'd be able to be healthy on any "diet" :)
It IS a diet. Alice is talking about Whole Foods plant based which is different than just a plant based diet. WFPb restricts vegan junk food where as Plant based does not. Plant based just means it’s vegan. Whole Foods plant based means it’s from a plant AND minimally processed. You can eat a Beyond Burger on a Plant Based diet but not on a WFPB diet. Yeah, confusing I know but there’s a difference. Bottom line is WFPB is very restrictive and just plant based itself is not because you can still have all the vegan “junk food” and meat substitutes.
I saw this the other day, and it did ring a little off to me - thank you for putting into words the vague unease I felt but couldn't quite put my finger on. Thank you for everything you do - you've helped more than you could ever know.
That’s why you are truly amazing Mia. I totally agree it’s a total oxymoron to promote recovery whether it’s eating disorder or diet by promoting certain foods as being off limits and promoting plant based vegan diet, which in my anecdotal experience of 4 years vegan made me unwell as you have to do what works best for you as we know well that a one size fits all approach doesn’t exist, and if it wasn’t for my recovery team asking me to make changes then I’d never be in the best physical and mental health I’ve been in years and now doing online support with b-eat to hopefully help others. I haven’t heard Minnie-maud mentioned much in the recovery space for quite a while so I’m confused by that statement. I think she has good intentions and always seemed to have a good heart to me and wants to help others find what she has , but can’t see how her message is very dangerous and as you rightly said in the recovery community we don’t have any space for error as eating disorders have the highest mortality rate for a very real reason and to do so without any qualifications in any of the areas she speaks of could get her in very real trouble if things were to go wrong and obviously the impact on the many viewers who follow her. Sending blessings and hope you and your family are all well and safe at this difficult time
Thank you so much for this. I know her intent has always been good but I often found her as a way to trigger myself under the guise of trying to inspire further recovery. I find her to be a lovely person but extremely toxic to those recovering :/
Honestly, I can see both sides here but I like Alice Olivia and, for me, her approach works better because I want to look and feel my best while fueling my body with an abundance of healthy plant based foods. I realize there’s not a one-size-fits all approach for recovery but I generally think a lot of what Alice says makes sense.
🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️ Thanks for addressing this Mia! I honestly have no words?!
I'm really glad I found this video because tbh I'm not too educated on recovery yet and I probably wouldn't have found anything wrong with the video, but you made me realize the flaws with what she is saying and how listening to that could be harmful to my recovery
I just wanted to thank you for this video. I do think it is important to help people think critically about the advice they may be following. I also appreciate that you acknowledged the inherent economic privilege of being able to cut out entire food groups. I've seen a few of Alice's videos in the past and the focus on physique and food limitations have never set right with me.
If some people are helped by her work that's great, but I am not comfortable with the judgement of people in larger bodies. I know that the MM guidelines were very helpful in my recovery, and Alice's criticism of the method seems mostly based on the idea that it could lead to people being unhealthy (read "unhealthy" = fat). I wish more people would explore thinks like HAEs and body positivity, and really reflect on society's (and their own) bias against people in larger bodies. For many, it is a major factor in staying stuck in quasi-recovery.
Anyway, thanks again for this video and all your work to get the recovery message out there.