This is how much range my VW Id.3 LOST in 3 years (Degradation)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2023
- @volkswagen #vw #volkswagen #id3 #first #range #lost #degradation
shop.aviloo.com/#batterylife
If you use my referral link when ordering a VW Id.3/4/5 within Germany
we both get 200€ charging credit
Id.3:
www.volkswagen.de/de/elektrof...
Id.4:
www.volkswagen.de/de/elektrof...
Id.5:
www.volkswagen.de/de/elektrof...
My German TH-cam Channel:
/ @batterylifede
Become a member for exclusive and early content and behind the
scene info:
/ @batterylife
Merch is out as well:
batterylife.myspreadshop.net/
If you want to support the Channel
/ batterylifeev
paypal.me/batterylifeev
My music in my videos is available at Epidemic sound
Referral link:
www.epidemicsound.com/referra...
Links to my spreadsheets of the cars tested:
Charge Curve Comparison
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Charging Curve
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
EV Consumption
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Take care - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Great channel.
Many TH-camrs change cars as often as their underpants in order to drive engagement with the latest cars. I appreciate the long term car ownership on this channel. It tells VW owners how our cars may age. If a problem pops up you will be the canary in the mine.
Thanks for your great videos.
Totally agree! It really helps when buying a used EV to know they've been tested for every day use. Utube and car forums are a great insight.
Weirdly big degradation I think.
I just bought a 3 year old ID3 with 40k km and it appears to have around 51-53 kWh. According to a few sources the available new capacity was around 56 kWh, so I maybe have 5-8% degradation. I mean it’s really debatable how to correctly calculate it, since officially they sell it at 58 kWh available.
When I take the 54 kWh available that AVILOO is using, my degradation could even be below 2%.
In any way: drives nicely, charges reasonably fast and the range is more than good enough for 95% of my driving.
Thanks for your videos, they helped me a lot when deciding!
Love your videos , I like the way you don’t take it to seriously but still deliver good content and information
Agreed that WV navigation is better than Google!!!! As you said, if you like to drive slowly.. but absolutely better to calculate the traffic expected loss of time!!!❤
Waze is best.
That is a sweet riff. Thanks for updating us on the batter degradation. 🤘
There's a new capacity test from Volkswagen and you will be given a certificate, it's more precise than a test drive.
Wonderful data set. Thank you for doing all this work. Might you know how your results compare with other ID.3 58 kWh pack cars? I have just about 100.000 km on my 2017 e-Golf and based on 31.5 kWh usable when new, I can now pull ~28.5 kWh from pack, though I have heat loss during my testing. Some day, I may try to perform a proper test. Still, that is ~10% degradation and I don't notice it in my routine driving.
Big fan from the US here. Aviloo shows 54kwh available new which would put your deg at something like 8%. Are they correct on that buffer or is there just some smallish errors in your consumption etc?
Great video thanks for your time. Just putting it out there, ambient temperature and wind are going to play a big factor in range. Perhaps you can register these too with each year you do the test.
Very good information… I have to go for the bigger battery - same as yours… 🙂 we have pretty good charging infrastructure here in Denmark, but with that degradation/winter weather whatever a smaller battery is not for me.. 😁 ID 3 is pretty affordable used nowadays
I think this is a perfectly good result given your previous results. If the car flattens off long term at under 15% deg like it seems to be trending towards, that's ok (I know you won't have it that long).
Will be interesting to see year 4,5,6 I think the degradation curve should flatten out
Good video. If you account for the common idea that EVs lose around 5% in the first year anyway, and that your first year had a lot of dc charging and 100% charging, the numbers aren’t too bad. I hope you get the ID.7! I don’t know what it is but I really like that car, so I’d love to see you do a lot of videos with it. 🤞
Good job Chris! By the way, the battery capacity lost to heat during use - is called the Peukert Effect.
Great video! Rock on
That song from your past should make it possible to give you a second like! Awesome!
Holy crap, it seems like yesterday that I watched your video where you took delivery of Walter 😖
You could consider recording the ambient temperature during your test on the spreadsheet. Wonder if it would play a roll in your comparisons year to year.
I agree with the VW navigation, i hate the search but the navigation is better than Google maps
9% loss is not that bad for the first 3 years! Still have a decent range 369km/229miles.
Also the battery loss should be smaller now each year. It is supposed to be biggest in first year
It's not the 9% loss over 3 years that's the main problem, it's the several different variables that can bring down that range considerably further down, like air temperature and car load.
And let's not forget that those 369km range were achieved driving way below the highway speed limits of most countries, so when you add all up, you probably can't even do 250km with your wife and kids while driving to your winter vacation destination!...
@@you2be839Damn. I didn't know driving exactly at speed limit is obligatory on highways. Shame on me.
@@SuperAti15it kind of is. Normal drivers traditionally remain a slight hair over the limit - if a bad apple decides to go slower it creates a significant safety hazard.
@@shirley-ie5vj If and when you decide to get a driving licence, be sure to start witch checking who and why makes traffic rules. I'm not quite sure it is "whatever majority of drivers does" 🤦♂️ What a pathology.
I tend to ask the address of the company where I’m going from Siri and then give it to ID navigation, both using voice commands 😅 most of the time works great.
Good video. The one problem for me is that all the data is about degradation over time, rather than degradation over distance driven. Without knowing how far the car was driven each year it is really hard to know what to make of result. I really doubt that most degradation is just time rather than charging and use of the battery which all relates to how much it is driven.
25.000 km 1. Year
15.000 km in the 2. and 3. Year
Not sure which battery you have but wiki indicates the possibilities are (full/available) 55/45, 62/58, 82/77. Aviloo report claims "available, in new condition" was 54kwh which doesn't align with any of those options. If your car started with 62 / 58 then your first figure of 57.2 seems to correspond but 52.65 after 12 months is disappointing to say the least. Subsequent 2 years degradation seems reasonable. Were all the tests done at similar ambient temperature ?
Great video. Thanks for your effort. I own an ID3 Pure. Been using it for exactly one year and am curious to measure the degradation. Currently I have done approximately 13500km with an avg consumption of 14.1 kWh / 100km.
Care to share how do you calculate the available energy kWh?
Verry good information
Would you prefer the 38kWh IONIQ over this? They don't seem to degrade at all from the usable capacity
I've been wondering about my own batter capacity. My ID.3 Pro S should have 77 kWh. But when I check how many kWh I receive when charging, divided by the % the car says it has received, I always find that 100% would be 70-72 kWh. Every time, whether AC charging at home (7 kW) or DC charging from various chargers on the road. Shouldn't I get ~77? 🤔I think I got that the first few times I charged at home, but last summer when the car was just 6 months old I got the lower numbers. The *range* seems to be close to what it's supposed to be though.
Awesome heavy riff.
I read an article recently that an academic study said the biggest issue that degrades a battery is charging to 100% and DC charging when the battery is not preconditioned. So the issue isn't DC charging exactly. Which was interesting. I also wonder what the standard deviation/error percentage of your test results might have. Anyways, thanks Chris.
Or doing hard accelerations while the battery isn't up to ideal temperatures.
Well, to work out Standard Deviation you need lots of test results. You can't have a SD for just one sample, you need something to deviate from! Error percentage is different, you can estimate that by looking at all the possible errors in the measurement - although if I remember correctly you cannot just add them all up. How accurately was the distance measured? How accurate was the charge reading? etc. The real challenge is that the test runs are all going to vary, driving style, weather, temperature, time of day, amount of pre-conditioning, state of the tyre tread, tyre pressure, head winds, driving route, uphill, downhill, amount of other traffic - the list just goes on and on. That's why there is that standardised WLTP non-real world range figure quoted by manufacturers - it's not what you are likely to get in practice but it does enable comparisons on an equal basis between different EVs.
@@bobuk5722 oh I totally agree. That question was more for VW people who are gathering more accurate data and me wondering how far off could Chris’ testing be.
55kw after 33.000km . The start is 58kw . So I have 6% degradation …
not a great result but somewhat expected. loosing around 10% the first few years and then about 1% per year afterwards is pretty normal for an EV in general as far as i know.
Cars should be more efficient at highway speed so even with a degraded battery you will still get plenty of range.
Also, LFP batteries are great since you can charge to 100%. Also, BMS is clearly not good enough in ID.3
I have had a 2022 Nissan Leaf. It is now 30 months since I first started driving it. I rarely charge on DC fast charge. I mostly charge overnight on a Level 1 charger and if possible I get it close to 100% often (since the EPA range is only 225 miles) According to the computer in the car, there is zero battery degradation. I would agree with this assessment since when fully charged and in ideal conditions the car says the range is still about 230-240 miles. I'm not sure what the difference in battery chemistries are between the ID3 and my LEAF but so far I am pleased with how little battery degradation I have experienced.
I also have a first Edition id3 and have the same degredation.
Greetings from Thessaloniki! I would love if you could share with us your band's music ( this sample sounded like a little bit of rammmsteeeein which is awesome)
Thanks, but the riff does not sound like the band at all. This was years before.
Band is called "This Cold Life"
This info will be very important for people looking to buy a used EV. Maybe it’s time for the EU to mandate that all used EVs must be supplied with a battery condition report from a 3rd party/ independent company or app like the one being used here - ie not from the person selling the vehicle
Thanks, Chris. I'll probably never buy a VW Group car, but your long-term tests are providing valuable information. I tend to keep cars for long durations (one, a budget model, was for 16 years), and our Zoe is 3 years old now. So your tests are quite relevant.
When you eventually return the ID3, it will be interesting to learn how developments in battery technology affect durability and performance.
Careful with that head-banging music! You'll be losing subscribers. 😄👍
My underbelly feeling is that the battery in your Zoe won't last for 16 years. I am contemplating an electric vehicle. But the current battery technology is not good enough for my use. And the fact that in winter, the battery discharges because it must keep temperature up is to me just throwing away money, as if my gas tank was leaking. I also don't have a garage or own parking spot, so I must load at public places. I have limited walking capability. There are two chargers close enough from my home. But what if they are occupied? Plus (especially on your Zoe) you need to write off the battery to buy a new one after 8-10 years.
@@ronaldderooij1774 My Zoe as 9,5 years, with 75000km, and still works.
Specially the engine, is seems like new
i have 92% SOH after 10 years with my zoe
Good information, but you didn't answer the most important question.
Yngwie or Eddie?
The downside of LCO/NMC batteries (which most manufacturers of EVs use), LiFePO4 will do much better than this, and much less problems with 100% charge i.e. can charge all the time to 100% without issue, unless you planning to leave car un-driven for greater than a week when you should keep it at storage voltage (60%).
"Lithium-ion power stations, both LCO and NMC, generally last at least 500 cycles before their storage capacity degrades to 80% of listed capacity. That said, most Li-ion power stations will remain functional for up to 2,000 cycles. You just won’t have as much capacity."
"LiFePO4 batteries last much longer than conventional lithium-ion batteries. Assuming a 80% DoD, you can expect 2,500 to 3,500 cycles out of the power station before capacity noticeably starts degrading. "
Pretty much the only ones using LiFePO4 are BYD and now Tesla in some models as they are buying the BYD batteries as are Mercedes in their higher end electric. Strangely one other exception is the lowest speced MG4 but pretty much all the traditional car manufactures are opting for batteries that wear out faster (I guess to sell more over time?).
solargenerator.guide/lithium-ion-vs-lifepo4-power-stations/
With me, cars will have more then 10 years... My Zoe as 9 1/2, and the other 22.
That was a huge degradation. My Model 3 sr+ is from june 2019 and has done 130.000 km. Has a degradation of 4%
how does a leasing work with id3, do they just accept this battery degradation and sell it second hand? Do people buy used e-cars in Germany?
You said that the DC charger gives a communication error if you try to start charging when SOC is higher than the charge limit. There is not any specific message in that case? Is it the same with other cars as well?
The charger doesn't know why the car won't charge.
Can you put a link up for your traction battery tester please?
It is in the description
12% in 3 years and almost 60,000kms seems fine to me. Our 1st Edition was new in UK in November 2020 and has covered less than 14,000 miles (22,000 kms). We only bought the car in March 2023.
Given that level of degradation and our expected use we'll be there in another 5 years time! 👍
Get an ICE car, greater range and you can fill up and go in 5 to 10 minutes, plus there are more pumps then chargers in Germany.
How much fast charging do you do?
In the 3 years you had the ID.3 did you notice any anomalies with the breaking equivalent to the tesla 'Phantom breaking'? Currently debating the id.3 or a tesla but the random breaking is putting me off the Tesla. Also the ID.3 for the UK hasn't got the larger screens etc until later on in the year.
What band was your band's inspiration? Pantera?
In flames. This riff has nothing to do with the band 😉
could you instead of range test report how much kWh it takes to fully charge it and get the similar result?
13:26 The degradation is 11.43% in 3 years, but it seems to stabilize after 2 years.
I think that the consumption with the sw updates has decreased around 10% .. so same range at the end :)
Consumption has not changed with software updates. Consumption can change with so many things. The software has not changed how the motor is being used.
There is no battery preheating in the winter though, that decreased the consumption
Bedankt
Thank you very much, so nice of you
Also, the smaller VW batteries have space for the extra modules in them. can you add an extra module?
No
What about opening it and sticking one in :)
@@jellyd4889there is one space in the 58 kWh battery but it is filled with some junction boxes so it is not available.
Have a look at Sandy Munro's interesting tear downs of battery packs - then you'll know why you can't just add another module.
I’m running software 3.2. Have issues with it resetting personal settings back to factory every few days! Temperature, ambient lighting colours, drive mode, comfort light timers all revert back to factory.
Have you had this issue and if so do you know of a fix?! Before personalisation on 3.2 there were no issues like this. Many thanks
Do you have another car running with your account?
@@BatteryLifeno just my account, only I drive the car. If I log in as guest the car remains in its latest settings but then you can’t use the app to control climate or monitor charging etc. sometimes it wants to reset several times a day , sometimes it retains settings for almost a week without reverting back to factory. Using the app to connect to the car seems to increase how often the car resets the personal settings but not using the app doesn’t entirely stop the car reverting if that makes sense! Very frustrating !
It is however my second ID car, the current has replaced my last car. I have deleted the previous car off my account though
ave 55mph...that would ring true. Lost count how many teslas I`ve seen on the M/way in the UK in the slow lane doing 50mph, with Suzuki Celerios overtaking them. Must be a real bind nearly filling your hosen at the thought of running out of juice if you do 70mph.
My id is relatively quick to 98 and then it takes twice as long. I hardly ever do 100%... usually 90%
Hi the years do not matter, just the kilometers spent 🎉 so at nearly 60000km 12% is quite a lot compared to average NMC batteries in Teslas (usually 8-9%).
I am now at 52000km and have roughly 7% degradation.
Of course two factors matter a lot: consumption and battery size, because the smaller the battery and the higher the consumption, the more charging cycles on 1000km. The ID3 has a smaller battery than my M3LR and consumes more, so more degradation is to be expected. Plus , both have NMC batteries, while LFP would have close to no degradation. As we know from the large Tesla study, DC vs AC charging does not matter at all regarding degradation, at least for Teslas with NMC batteries.
So I think it is probably average for an ID3 and as long as you are fine with the range, there is no problem 🎉
i lost only 2,5% on LFP battery on a tesla model 3 and 60000km and mainly (90% ) on Supercherger
awesome
I can’t say wether thats good or bad but using your own car for all these different test you do which is great for us but I would not do some of things you do like rapid charging regularly or charging from 80% to. 100%. I charge to 90% only charging very occasionally to 100% and take it down to around 20 to 25% and avoid rapid chargers as much as possible. Hopefully that will extend the life of my battery as long as possible.
Maybe I missed it. How many charge cycles did you count? I think this parameter is more important than time, such as 3 years....
No idea. Twice a week maybe
I'm curious about my Id4 battery capacity, I have driven about 158000km and ticking.🤔 Will return it 31 March next year with somewhere around 180000-200000km on the odometer.😊
Let us know if you have the results pls ;)
@@SpeakerZima yes, I'll let you know. I've driven over 185000km at this point. 😁
Not an expert but does not seem too bad to me although I still think battery deg is a concern for most people including me.
That riff was heavy as f!
Why did Aviloo state 54kWh as the starting capacity? I find it quite hard to believe that the ID.3 would have such high degradation, as the charging curve is quite conservative and likewise the buffer also relatively big.
This is normal. Every battery does that. Some carmakers just use the buffer to not have less range
My id3 driven 68000 km and still 56 kw left. I charge mostly only slow charging (3 kw) and only to 80%-90%. Do not use fast charging much.
I realise you don't like the ride quality on the Tesla Model 3 Chris, but in other respects I think it's a better choice. I have a 2023 Model 3 dual motor and it's been faultless in the 7 months that I've had it. I personally enjoy the sporty handling and ride. It's an electric go cart. It jiggles a bit over bumps but its not harsh or bad and I've never found it uncomfortable. The seats are very comfortable. Range, efficiency, battery management, charging, infotainment and acceleration are brilliant. Point is, even if there was 25% degradation it would still have more range than most other EVs.
Model 3 is an amazing car. But not for me. There are some points that are not my liking
and driving quality is a very big one for me.
But I am very happy for you. Enjoy!
I didn't catch how many km you've driven since the car was new, but 11.4% degradation does seem high for a 3 year old car unless you're doing 100k km a year.
I recently saw a review of a Tesla Model 3 Performance, which had been used as a taxi and driven hard, and it showed 11.9% degradation at over 310k km.
I don't know how often it had been supercharged, though, but being a taxi, I would imagine quite a lot.
Many studies show the high Amp Charging does not really affect the aging, but sitting at 100% SoC or always charge the battery to 100% and drive it to 0%. The taxis will most likely not charge to 100% and don’t go down to like 5%SoC so the Battery is quiet perfectly balanced and will have a higher SoH than a car that has way less miles but always sits in the driveway at 100%
@philipb799 Yes, charging to 100% isn't really a problem, although it is not advisable to do it constantly, but leaving an EV charged to 100% for any period of time will possibly cause degradation, as does leaving them at 0%.
That said, most EVs have top and bottom buffers to help reduce any potential damage from overcharging.
It is also claimed that frequent supercharging causes higher degradation, but from what I understand, frequent supercharging is more like to cause cell voltage imbalance and possible failure rather than degradation.
There's a Tesla Model S85 in California that is used as a limo and is always supercharged to 100%. It needed a battery replacement at 196k miles due to an internal fault, but when tested, it only showed 6% degradation. The car is now on its 3rd battery but has covered over 450k miles.
Long-term data from Tesla shows an average of 12% degradation after 200k miles, which I think is perfectly acceptable.
Was that the LiFePO4 battery version of the Tesla Model 3 (which lasts considerably longer) or the traditional Li-Ion like the VWs use?
Guess I am doing something wrong. I get a range of max 250km eventhough there's only 35.000 on the car.
You may not know this, but the VW dealer can hook it up to their test/scan software and tell you everything about the battery...
I know. Did it 2 times.
But this is more realistic
The claimed capacity from Aviloo is not from 100% till the car is not moving anymore. It is from 100% to 0%. You can still drive above this point. That means the usable capacity is more than 54 kWh in a brand new ID. You can drive approx. 20 km after hitting 0%. If you calculate 15 kWh as average consumption this would lead to an extra 3kWh usable below 0% and would be very close to the 58 kWh usable battery capacity VW claims.
Aviloo Tests from 100% until software tells the car to stop.
@@BatteryLife Which software?
Lucky bustard! The only thing I wish I did when I was younger is playing EG.
You are listen music or heavy metal? Thanks.
Heavy
After 4 years I lost 8,5% ( from 26,5 to 24,3 kWh usable battery) on my Hyundai Ioniq classic. As I understand it, the degradation of lithium turnary batteries is around 2% per year the first years (4-5) then it spreads down to 1% per year. The last sex months my car shows no degradation . Your ID 3 should be expected to behave in a same manner.
I think that’s to much. That’s almost buying a longrange and getting a standard range after three years. They should avoid making people frustrated.
I believe your first measurement was incorrect. A new battery has 58 KWh and this includes almost 2 KWh of below zero buffer. This has been confirmed many times with Car Scanner Pro and OBD2 interface - the latest one was the measurement Bjorn Nyland did on a very fresh ID.3 facelift (it showed 55750 for HV battery content after charged at 100%).
Probably when you first got the car with its early software, the 0-100 SoC scale was accounting part of the "below zero" buffer, that's why your calculation showed 57,2 KWh. This can't be replicated in none of the new cars with 58 KWh battery. You can try to get an almost new ID.3 facelift for range test, you will see you will not get more than 56 KWh on the 0-100 SoC scale.
Aviloo on the other hand accounts 54KWh as 100% SoH which is a bit low.
If you account 56 KWh as 100% SoH, at first year you were at 6% degredation, second year at 8,5% and now at 9,5%. Which almost agrees with the common knowledge of 5% on first year, 2% on second year and 1% afterwards for NCM Li-On batteries, if you also account you did more Km in first year.
It was measured with the same test 3 years ago. So the % of difference should be accurate
@@BatteryLife I know you did same test, but it is obvious the early software was behaving differently. You can't have 57,2 from 100 to 0, you can only have 56. And 2 more below zero. At least new ID.3 with software 3.x can only do 56 KWh from 100 to 0.
230miles is still more range than I'd need on about 99% of my journeys.
Scary figures - imagine a diesel or petrol car whose fuel tank shrinks with age...
Thankfully i have a Tesla mod 3 , done 40,000 miles in 3 yrs ! Only 2% degradation 😊
LFP or NCM ?
Pretty bad. My 2021 Ev6 has less than 1 % degradation, odometer at 76k km. About 30% fast charging. SOH at 100% in car scanner. Id3 does not have post charge conditioning (just like Audi, Skoda) that is able to avoid long time battery high temp status. Vw is working on it
kia / hyuindai always reports nearly 0% degradation. it's suspicious at least.
Yes it is, but I did mention that à 100 % SOH, it has 1% deg. Now it has a bit more than 2 % and SOH at 99.6%, really ok at 86000 km ODO. @@did00p
Hyundai Ioniq Electric has a vastly superior battery lifetime and degradation numbers are way lower.
What kind of obsolete batteries are using by VW group ? new LFP batteries can do up to 600 cycles without any loss of capacity , and 3000 cycles with 20% loss
NMC, but i don't think batteries are problem. BMS is
Did it lose that amount PLUS the buffer? I heard that the smaller battery has a big buffer, so it will takes a long time to see any degredation... OR if there is any degredation given, then it must be in reality quit massive as it means the buffer is gone. Can anyone confirm anything I am saying here?
The 45 kWh "pure" battery has a whole module as buffer, so you will never charge to (real) 100 % and therefore should have a supreme degradation.
So battery degradation is real people! You lost 5 Kwh - in 3 years - good for you since you were leasing "Walter"
We are in the UK and we prefer Google Maps. I like the look of VW nav but the search is poor and the controls are not intuitive enough for my partner.
We plan our journey at home and just save it to the phone.
How many miles has your car done?
There's Teslas who've done 160,000-200,000 km with similar degredation to yours.
It's not as positive as I'd hope for
I say it in the first 10 sec 😉
57000 Kms.
@@BatteryLife doh
About the same as on a 3 year old fossil
Need to agree it souds horrible loosing 11.43% in 3 years, on the bright side it only lost 1% last year.
Overall loss is the problem thats alot but seems to be the norm.
For a medium range car like the id3 loosing 12% its still has a ok but not great range.
Ppl buying cars with less than 50kWh or small range are going to get hurt way more
Not 1%, but one percentage point.
Our ID.3 58 kWh lost 14% (SoH 86%) after 64000 km in June 2023 since March 2021. That's more than I expected. Very seldom I loaded up to 100%, nearly always only to 80% with 11 kW.
I usually charge to 70% with 4 kW.
Umm too much degradation for an only 3 years old car whit onli 57.000km..
Hi, it's not really the distance, it's the number of charge cycles, the battery technology and how much the battery is charged up each time. For example the LFP battery packs are quite happy being charged to 100% and left there. Lithium Nickel Cobalt ones should not be left at 100% for any length of time and ideally not charged past 80% or so.
@@bobuk5722 yep and even besides the 100% charge issue, LiFePO4 should do many more cycles than a Li-Ion before showing comparable degradation (maybe 5-7 times as many).
If leaving LiFePO4 car un-driven for a week or more you really should store it at 60% though, for maximum life.
nowday's it's expected. we all know 1st gen leafs were the worst and then in second place is definetely VW. not a surprise from a company, which is this 2nd electic car ever made.
Just wondering, what of the planet are you saving by continually changing your vehicle every 3 years?
You are not an idiot. The HMI is bad.
I love it when i drive 1000km and the car says theres still fuel for 1070 km.
and then pay a fortune to fill it up 😉
Why would you not buy a Tesla instead of a legacy automotive manufacturer TRYING to make an electric car....
Because it is inferior in any other metric than the powertrain maybe?
@@MMScaleModels Really, inferior in what ways Einstein?
@@akennedystocks Quality of materials, craftsmanship (or should I say lack there of), design, ergonomics. Feels cheap but its rather expensive. You don't need to be theoretical physicist to figure that out.
@@MMScaleModels Interesting the quality of materials "feels cheap" on the Tesla. That is what you got?
Just trying to understand your "facts" on why Tesla is inferior....
@@akennedystocks you jumped over the first four arguments... i assume you agree.
The more I hear about the ID3, the more I feel it was just a compliance car with little thought or ambition built into it.😢
Nobody else did a decent compact car till the MG4 🤷