I was on methadone for pain management and I had to go to jail for driving without a license and the county I was in didn’t have methadone like most other jails in New York. They made me withdrawal from methadone,Seroquel and I had Covid… It was the cruelest experience in my life. I wanted to go back to the methadone clinic, but they were going to start me out at 30 mg and the fact that you have to go every day is ridiculous. I am on 32 mg of Subutex now and still get horrible cravings. We wouldn’t have a fentanyl problem if people could just get the opioids they need.
That's why I don't want to go to the clinic. Having to go every day is ridiculous. Also they start you at such a low dose. I need to be around 100 120.
I agree, the whole 'war on opiates' was brought about by fentanyl. Once they started taking away people's legit prescriptions, they basically forced them to go to dealers. I hate that they think that somehow being under government control with a prescription is worse than going to a dealer. That's not a deterrent for using, that's just pushing them in one direction. I know I never would've fallen into illicit opioid use if they hadn't canceled my prescriptions. Total and utter ridiculousness. I feel like a lot of doctors worry more about their licenses and prescribers worry about their liability, all more than the consequences of doing these things. Also, hospitals giving really strong medication only to prescribe something MUCH weaker is a major reason why people become addicts as well. I got in a major motorcycle accident 10+ years ago and they had me dosed with Dilantin every 2 hours, then when I got out they prescribed me 7.5mg Norcos. They may have still been the old formula and the peach ones, but they still weren't comparable.
@@RuthMartin-sp1uhhow you know you need all that methadone People get to a high dose cuz they don't want to wait until the methadone get to your sistem it take a least 10 days ,i was in methadone for 19 years 90 mg and was enought People get more then that are sleeping all day ,nobody need a 100 mg for what ,them when you try to get out its almost impossible, i use subuxone for 2 years too ,those 2 druds are the worst to detox.
Yesssss! We need to fight and get out medications back! Crack Era, Opioid Epidemic, and the $ that is made on Black Market on $820 of fentanyl, yields a whipping $820,000.00 in PROFIT...! THAT'S CRAZY! I AM SO FOR HAVING DOCTOR'S JUST PUT IS ALL ON OUR MEDICATIONS! C'MON NOW, WHEN DR'S SAY, "OH, WE CANNOT GIVE NARCOTICS TO AN OPIOID ADDICT OR DEPENDENT PERSON, THAT'S NUTS! OPIOID DEPENDENT PEOPLE ARE THE ONES THAT CAN HANDLE OPIOID MEDICATIONS OR ANY OPIATE MEDICATIONS IN LARGE DOSES!
I myself went through precipitated withdrawal after 78 hour from last use. It was absolutely horrible. There is no real way to gauge how much fentanyl I was using as it varies from source to source but I will say 50 pills a day didn’t get me high. After going to the hospital and getting some vivatrol and whatever else the put in me I was able to relax a lot more temporarily. The precipitated withdrawal made me so weak and frail unlike any other time I have ever detoxed. Glad to say I have not touched any mind or mood altering substances since Jan. 2023. I pray that never happens again. I don’t wish that upon anyone.
@@forrestcason3584i don't think he get vivitrol cuz tu use vivitrol he have to wait a least 2 weeks i get a vivitrol shot 10 days after detox methadone and end it up in a mental hospital for 2 weeks i lost my mind for real i was super sick.
Pills have gotten SO much worse quality since you got out the game! All the pills are bunk now. Powder and black tar is even back. The blues are done. They're all trash. They used to be super strong.
I had to micro dose once I got a full dose finally I still went through 4 days of full withdrawal before it worked at all. I had precipitated wd with even a tiny peice at first it was horrible. I could over ride that with more drugs but the Bernese method was the only way I got it to work. I only get 16 mg though and really need more
I was trying to switch from Methadone to Suboxone and waited over 72 hours and I still went into really bad precipitated withdrawals..the precipitated withdrawals traumatized me so much I was scared to take another doss of Suboxone... so scared I ended up just going cold turkey off of it all, which was not the plan.. but I am almost 7 weeks opiate free. I know not everyone can cold turkey but I got very strong will power so knew I could do it... dealing with some post acute withdrawals now and that has been harder than the acute withdrawals...but im keeping up the fight!
The post-acute withdrawal phase is a real challenge and I wish you the best. Are you getting medical care to support you? Even if you don't want to use Suboxone or methadone, there are people who can help.
@@JackMcG_MD my methadone Dr is still keeping close tabs on me and I've been getting stuff to help sleep and for anxiety. Even with sleep medicine I'm still waking up all night long, I notice my bad days are really bad on the nights I didn't sleep much or woke all night.. today is a bad day for me..but I had a few good days in row earlier this week.. definitely not easy and you got to be extremely strong willed to fight this
@dustinhagy1546 yes it was horrible and quite the challenge to get off of especially after 6 years on it but I managed to do it, I'm at day 68 or 69 something like that, I'm starting to lose track of the days....but glad to be off and finally feeling like a normal human being
You know u can start subs before you start using again... if u start wanting to get high dont put yourself thru this again. Theres NOTHING wrong with accepting that this addiction is bigger Than your willpower
You aint never lied i just tried too come off it ni meds felt like something in my body making me cringe and eritated cant think nose running throwing up cant eat cant do nothing
Finally, a Doctor explains this correctly. Thank you so much! I can't tell you how many horrible videos Doctors have made regarding this topic. That was explained perfectly. I need your advice Doctor. I had 15 years sober from heroin addiction. Last year someone manipulated me into using fentanyl. I've been hooked for a little over a year. I'm on methadone and as of this moment, I'm three days sober from fentanyl. The withdrawals from this drug however overpower the 110 mg of methadone that I'm taking. I've tried countless times to detox and I've never made it past 3 days. My doc just raised my dose to 125mg methadone in a split dose of 65 in the morning and 60 at night. This seems to help. How long should I expect this detox to take? I'm in extreme pain as if methadone is much less effective for fentanyl compared to heroin. Please give me some truthful advice on what I can expect. On this 3rd day, the pain intensified.
My heart goes out to you. Fentanyl can wreck your tolerance in short order. Things will settle with time as your brain re-equilibrates to the prior baseline. I can't recommend any specific treatments without examining you in person, but I would encourage you to talk with your doctor about non-opioid medications for your symptoms. Let them know that you're dedicated to getting better and want to avoid a relapse, but need a little help in the short term.
@JackMcG_MD i completing my 6th day. Im never going back doctor. I hating using fentanyl. Im will say the withdrawals are getting better but i still feel miserable even with 125mg methadone. Im believe tomorrow i will be much better. I thank you for responding.
Yes and then there’s the doctors literally here on TH-cam saying “The cure for precipitated withdrawal is more Suboxone!” Maybe trying again after waiting another 24 hours might work but taking more sub right away is how you make the withdrawal even worse.
I'm on 100mg of Methadone. It took me about a month going to the clinic before I felt much relief. Fent just wrecked me. What helped tremendously was getting prescribed Gabapentin with my Methadone. That combination really seemed to do the trick
Really appreciate this educational video. The game has changed big time and it’s absurdly hard to find any helpful info as to what’s out there on the streets today and the wd associated with it. Been fighting demons for the last 4 yrs, but specifically 2 straight. I’m terrified to face the inevitable but it’s high time (pun intended, I guess) I get my life back. Sending love and strength to all fellow addicts out there, esp those who are actively tussling ♥️
@@therealgodsjoshuamatthew7633 it is given in ERs Read about it (High Dose induction) When patients are brought into the ER with PWD from being administered naloxone for a fentanyl overdose, macrodosing WORKS.
@@therealgodsjoshuamatthew7633there’s medical journals studied they gave a guy over 200mg over 24 hours when he put himself into precipitated withdrawal
@@therealgodsjoshuamatthew7633 This isn't as a daily dose. This is to get you through precipitated withdrawal as quickly as possible. Some Drs here will give an 8 mg Subutex every hour until the withdrawals start easing off. This is the "macro" approach instead of the "micro" approach.
thank you for saying this !! i had sooo many drs call me insane or say i was drug seeking. i was script suboxone THREE times before they LET me try methadone. i overdosed on fentanyl in the year in between sub n methadone, bc i thought it was hopeless. sooo much misinfo comin straight from drs. one time the er gave me a bup pill, i mean 100% sub no narcan, and it helped me. so they charted that suboxone was effective for me. then handed me 30 suboxone + narcan films. that made me so sick, 48hrs after any fet, 24hrs after the pill of pure sub. ended up back in er, but oh no i’m drug seeking, bc sub “works.” the drs didn’t understand the difference between the literal chemicals making up the meds !!! so i gave up on drs for a long time. eventually ended up in the er w a arrhythmia from fet withdraw. they finally put me on methadone. saved my life. i’m now sober off methadone too !! but it took 7 hospitals. 3 weeks in telemetry. many ignorant drs. THANK YOU for being educated !!!!!!! 💕💕💕
Great video! Great information! Very educational. I live in AZ, and some of these sober living homes make you get off of seboxon if you want to stay living in the home. These people running these homes need to be educated!
Excellent video, information presented in a clear and concise way. I've been in active recovery from opioid use disorder for over 15 years. Buprenorphine saved my life. Would love to see a video exploring the topic/idea that people on medication assisted treatment have to stop taking their medication at some nebulous point in time. This concept seems to be unique to addiction treatment. People suffering from other chronic illnesses dont typically discuss or need to consider the idea that they need to stop taking medications that effectively treat their illness. People with Diabetes dont have to think about "quitting" insulin, or people with hypertension think about getting off of their blood pressure medication. There's so much stigma surrounding substance use disorder treatment, and so much misinformation out there, would love to hear your thoughts on the topic.
Subs have been helping me, no withdrawal issues coming off of fentanyl. I waited about 72 hours before taking 8/2 mg suboxone. Lowering intake also helped
@@kellibarker7096I didn't even wait myself. I'm currently on day 5 using the Bernese Method. The night before I began I did fet as usual and when I woke in the morning I started on .5 MG of sub and no pwd. I've seen plenty of other people say otherwise tho so I'm sure it varies by person.
@@kellibarker7096i’m not even on hour 28 and i’ve been needing something for relief for the past 8 hours. i took a very small dose of my sub. like .5 or so and i’m gonna wait until the 30
There are a few things I can say. While I was on Suboxone (I take Methadone now)I used to skip my dose for a day so I could use Morphine for a few days and go back to it before the pharmacy cut me off. I'd wait until the Morphine had worn off just enough that I was starting to feel a little bit sick and I could take the Subs again with no issue. I once tried doing the same thing but with Fentanyl... I'd been saving up my doses while I used so I had a few days worth. When I started to feel sick I took the first dose and it made me sicker by quit a bit. I thought maybe now my receptors are clear, so I took a second dose. It made me sicker then I knew was possible. If any one had seen my behavior they would have thought I was possessed by the Devil. Speaking in tongues. Thrashing in bed wildly. Out of total desperation and having nothing else to try, I took a third dose. Within ten minutes I was ok. The only thing that story doesn't cover is that those times after using Morphine some times Id take it a little too soon and I'd get mild withdrawal for 10-30 mins, then it would start working.
I do the same with fent. I take small doses until I built up to 16mg. I still will use, and I assume since I had taken 16mg I was already induced. But when I take 8mg, I'll feel symptoms for about 30 mins and then I'm fine. I tell myself if I don't have RLS, and hot/cold flashes, then I'm not in withdrawal.
I highly suggest you get back on Suboxone. I've been clean from heroin since 2012, Suboxone since 2015. The trick is to take the medication for at least 2 years to allow your brain to heal and to stop associating the drug with pleasure! Suboxone is a partial agonist allowing this.
Yeah, you have to already be on 8 to 16 mg of bupe to be able to do fent and go back. You can safely do 1 to 2 days of fent then go back to sub. I made the mistake of going 7 days straight with fent and it took 3 days for me to get back on sub. Then I went a few months straight on fent, had to get on methedone then had to go to rehab to get back on sub. Now I'm taking the shot next week
So Methadone is just as Bad or worse than Fentanyl as far as Getting it out of your system?? I was thinking about going on Methadone to taper down to Get on Suboxone.. If so, I have to figure something else out because I heard you have to go to the clinic literally every single day (between 5am to 10am 🤦🏾) and they are 20+ min from me Driving (1 Hour 45 Min by Bus) and My car is Down 🤦🏾💯 So... Yea... I gotta figure something out.. But I am Terrified of Taking Subs after a HORRIFIC Experience 🤦🏾
Methadone has a super long Half life. To switch from M to Sub you need to be down to 30mg and then start microdosing the sub. .05 twice a day then work your way up
I had a doc tell me to take a full dose of sub after 24hr of last use and it out me into full blown wd in 10 mins so bad i was in hospital for 3 days. I even told the sub doc i was scared to death of precip wd and they didnt listen. I prey for myself and eveyone else whose struggling and cant ask for help from physician's due to the stereotypes and the snub nosed looks.
Oh well ... ~2 decades ago I wanted to buy my next you know what, but couldn't get any, so a guy gave me what's called "Subutex sublingual" in my country (and pretty sure is the same crap) instead, to pass the waiting period. Back then I only knew, others get it against withdrawal but had no clue there's a blocker like naloxon in it and snorted several small lines of it. After what initially felt like tolerable coke I got the withdrawals of my life, so a friend gave me a nice amount of benzos to calm me down and although I usually hate needles, several hours later I shot up h, which didn't help much but also didn't do any more damage. I've never tried that crap again - I saw people commenting it "saved their lives" but can't imagine how they transitioned to this bs - thankfully we've also other options here, as this was so bad I still remember it as if it just had happened yesterday. Most here are on morphine and I've cut contact to lots of people from my past. I really feel horrible for Americans being put through this torture.
So why did you take it? Doctors work for us. Not the other way around. I'm an addict too. I get it, but we have to stop believing doctors know everything. We also have to stop believing doctors have our best interests in mind. They don't. They're all bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. It's sickening but it's true.
This is interesting. I work in the addiction treatment field. More and more people are starting to say that they have waited three to four days after their last use of fentanyl and they still went into precipitated withdrawal. Thanks for explaining why
They arent lying. The problem is that its not just fent anymore. I waited about 52 hours on fent any pretty easily switched over to subs. The first time. The problem is that its not just fent anymore. Its tranq and gawd knows what else. The second time I waited about 86 hours still went into such horrible precip I ended up in the hospital for 4 days and still couldnt handle it. You think youre on fent and it probably does have a little in it. Cause i know i was testing for it.
Ibogaine is interesting as a treatment possibility, but the evidence for long-term results is lacking. If it is used, it should be in the form of a comprehensive treatment plan. I can't give medical advice on TH-cam, but if you're interested in learning more, I have a video on the subject: th-cam.com/video/5gJAbkSDPJI/w-d-xo.html
@@scottym6680 Thanks for the response. Ibogaine is one of those that I know almost nothing about but I've seen it mentioned occasionally. Hope you're hanging in there.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've seen a few people who use fentanyl with precipitated withdrawal from Suboxone and it does not look pretty. That's what motivated me to learn more to help my patients!
I see a lot of people talking about switching from methadone to suboxone and how bad it is.. and I can imagine, if you do it completely wrong.. to switch from methadone to suboxone the burnese method is the best choice.. but if you MUST do a normal induction then you have to wait a minimum of 5 days from last methadone dose, and 7 is even better. Also if you have a compassionate doctor they might could stop your methadone and switch you to a short acting opiate for about a week, then go into withdrawal much faster and induct.
Thanks for explaining in simple ways for lay persons. I recently read in opioid rotation that Metadon have a half time that varies much, from 12 to 34 hours. What does this means for the many I spoke with claiming to wake up in the morning with withdrawel that they endure for hours while getting to the clinic to get the daily dose, hardly managing. Doctors are obligated to do no harm but they systematicly inflict great harm on very many people I talked with. It seems they do not care about the complaint of withdrawel at all. With regards, ret nurse from Norway.
It is possible to experience withdrawal symptoms between doses if the patient is a rapid metabolizer of methadone or is using drugs that induce metabolism (carbamazepine is a common suspect). You can confirm this suspicion with quantitative methadone testing or genetic testing, but this is rarely done because it is expensive. In such cases, it may be necessary to increase the patient's dose or allow them a second take-home dose to use in the evening.
I had to split dose, if I took 120mg in the morning I'd be super sleepy 4 hours later, but by 10pm I could feel the methadone wearing off and by the next morning I'd be in pretty bad WD I'd almost throw up my next dose. I had to take 60 - 80mg in the morning then again at 4pm. It just would not last all day for me.
Suboxone most definitely works, you just need to know how to get back on it... microdosing induction or high dose induction. There is no longer a need to be in withdrawal first before starting Suboxone. No need to be tied to a methadone clinic
Yeah microdosing is the only way to do it with fentanyl now. Fetty is so unnaturally powerful that I wouldn't be surprised if a withdrawal does actually end up killing someone at some point.
It sure does! I made the video after hearing from multiple patients who felt that Suboxone was ineffective for people using fentanyl. Thank you for the comment!
@@Aryan-xb5id it will take some time I took me a week before I could take Suboxone and another week before it worked I would suggest microdosing while still on fentanyl
The problem is that when you sign up at a methadone clinic, they won't start you at a high enough dose to combat fentanyl withdrawals. Also, every detox I've ever been to won't give more than 12mg of suboxone the first day and then tapering down from there. It's time that these facilities update their treatment protocol for patients coming off of fentanyl because they are all set up for someone coming off of heroin or oxy.
There are legal limits to the initial dosage of methadone. They cannot give more than 30 mg as a first dose and no more than 40 mg on the first day. It's possible to give more, but the program has to submit a form documenting the exception (which functions as a hard barrier for most patients). There are no federal limitations on buprenorphine dose, aside from internal protocols adopted by the program itself. They could give whatever dose they believe is reasonable (provided they can justify it). The issue is that these programs are very conservative and do not want to be the first to use a new treatment protocol. The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.
@@JackMcG_MDthey need to change that cause that's not even giving the person a chance . You would think they are doing something about it but nope . Where I live in CT. Yale is starting a program with letting pcp prescribe methadone to see if it works out . To many rules and regs at methadone clinics and they weaponize privileges like take home bottles it's just ridiculous and translates into a huge percentage of addicts who are out of reach of this treatment option . I like your videos keep them up .😊
Ya it's bs. 40 MG the 1st day and than at least another week to get to to 100mgs. Which probably still isn't a stable dose. I understand they have to cya.. I'd be willing to stay under observation if they'd be willing to do 10mgs an hour until stable does is reached.
Ok, i hope someone can answer this. I waited 16 hours after using fentanyl to take Suboxone, I took 8mg/2mg, after 2 hours I was in full precipitated withdrawal. So I did more fentanyl until I was no longer having withdrawal. But here’s the kicker, that was 64 hours ago and I feel great. I had been receiving smaller amounts of fentanyl than I was used to for about 6 days before i decided trying Suboxone so blood levels were probably lower than usual. But I’ve had nothing at all for 64 hours and i thought i should be having withdrawal by now. Has anyone experienced this?
@@OldeDog_NewTricks I’m glad someone said something, after day 4 I started having withdrawal so I started taking Suboxone at low doses and slowly worked my way up until i found myself not needing more and now I take 4 mg a day. I’m still dependent on something so it’s been almost a month and I’m starting to taper down from the 4mg hopefully to zero as fast as I can handle it without relapsing, I’m using a taper schedule from 4 mg over a 36 day time frame and I’ll pause when it gets too much
The suboxone stays binded to the receptors longer. So when you used your fety. You woke the receptors that the suboxone wasn't on and tickled them until they were happy. Hence withdraws went away. Then went the fent finally fell of the receptors. The subs were still attached to the other receptors. Actually seems like a smart way to do it. Transitioning
I was out on fentanyl for 2 years. Got me all messed up 150 mcg every 2 , not 3 days. I was then out on methadone. Went easily. Then quit 50 mg to 30 and couldn't do it. Kept going back early as my body wanted the 50 mg ...but I went through withdrawals 4 days methadone. Horror. That and Klonopin. Major horror. I was put on Suboxone 16 mg which after 2 weeks I realized I only needed 12. The. A year later went to 8. Then took less than 8 mg a day for 10 year in 3rds. Bite a piece of 8mg 3 times a day and always had a piece extra. Then I dropped in 2019 to 2mg. Not bad really. But last 4 years it's been very easy to notice dropping. So I'm praying for sublocade shot 100 3 of them and walk away. I'm so done.
I was on suboxone, had a relapse and overdosed twice from fentanyl, even with the suboxone the shot of fentanyl still took me out both times. Dead on my bathroom floor and even after coming back with narcan I was still nodding out. Buprenorphine and naloxone will not always block fentanyl. Im now 2 years clean with the help of Methadone. Stay safe everyone and please, always practice harm reduction.
Methadone is so much worse ,it harms your body so much ,you start losing teeth bones hurt and the withdrawals are so much worse and last so much longer ,yes it helps right away but the price to pay is much worse ,stop taking that poison you are better of staying on fentanyl ,hopefully you just stay clean from everything.
If you are smart get off of the methadone it's slowly killing you I was on 340 mgs of methadone and got locked up I was also taking Xanax 4 mgs a day not sure what was worse it took roughly 28 days of sickness before feeling better if you can't say no Suboxone is the way to go I can live a normal life on Suboxone methadone is just like heroin when I came down I was nodding just like heroin and I was going nowhere so if you wanted a normal life switch to Suboxone brother I wish you all the luck in the world good luck and God bless
@@JaeEscalona210 yes thats what Im taking a day , thats how much it took for me to stop going through withdrawls it sucked took almost a month to get somewhat stable
please keep me posted. i too suffer from chronic pain and am looking for help. I am on max bupe, max subox, and now sublocade and none help with pain at all which is why they want me on methadone.
Great video doc but had to laugh at 5:40 in the video you show somebody throwing at least a half Ounce of fett down the toilet would never happen that person would be so far from thinking about getting clean they got days to go sorry for inserting my sarcasm
you have to take as little of it as possible and stack the dose over an 8 hr at a time period, like take no more than .5mg at a time to start with for first day if you cant force yourself to wait 24-36 hours to take the first dose of suboxone/subutex. also buprenorphine IS a full agonist when it is taken in amounts under 1 mg but becomes a partial agonist at amounts over that.
Would you be able to explain the procedure in more detail please.. 05. Every 8 hours? For how many days? Would you take 05 mg of sub every 8 hours for a few days ? When would you be ready to raise the sub mg? Would every 12 hours be safer? Thank you, I’m really distraught at this point.
@@madelineanabella6400 it depends on how much you were using and for how long but typically it works better if you sneak it into your system as opposed to just taking a full dose and going into immediate precipitated withdrawal from all previous opiate doses.
@@madelineanabella6400you and me both. i’m on hour 28 and i did take like .5 of a sun at hour 23 or so. i did experience some relief but also got pretty bad RLS during that time but hearing it’s a full agonist under 1mg makes me hopeful
I was on fentanyl for 4 years and did about 10 blues a day. I did the bernese method to get onto suboxone induction. Went to a rehab and was prescribed 16mg a day and as soon as i got out i went to 8mg because i feel like 16mg is way too much. Anyways, today I am 5 months and 18 days clean off all mind altering substances and maintaining my 8mg a day dose! There is light at the end of the tunnel!
proud of you brothyer, stay the course. you can cut subox in half when tapering down at high doses becaiuse the percentage of receptors that are affected are small. But when you are on lower doses at like 2 mg, each drop is significant so be wary of that. You can drop from 8 mg to 6 rt now and i bet you could handle it. But anyway.. you be you and stay clean. i had 30+ days and slipped but quickly back on clean train with 4 days clean again and just got sublocade shot yesterday
I have been on Suboxone for over 5 years. It has taken away 95 percent of my cravings. Also I am an alcoholic and it also has taken over 90 percent of my alcohol cravings away. And I also talk to to addiction counseling twice a month over the phone.i take 8.2 Suboxone 3 times a day.i haven't relapsed not even once in the 5 years I've been on Suboxone with addiction counseling. NO OPOIDS and NO ALCOHOL consumption either. I get urine tested every 2 weeks.i am very happy and proud of myself. I would recommend SUBOXONE to every addict and alcoholic. LARRY from KENTUCKY 😊😊😊
Thank you for sharing! It's been my experience that most people who use fentanyl can and do benefit from Suboxone. Only people who use extreme amounts of fentanyl (around a gram of street fentanyl, which probably contains much less pure fentanyl, yet is still an enormous dose) seem to have trouble with buprenorphine, as there is a ceiling at 32 mg/day. Giving more buprenorphine than the ceiling dose does nothing to increase the effects. Yes, I have treated patients reporting the use of a gram of street fentanyl a day. With time, the human body can adapt to extremely high levels of exogenous opioids. For context, 100 mcg or 0.1 mg is a standard hospital dose of fentanyl for pain, and 2,000 mcg or 2 mg is considered a fatal dose for the opioid-naive patient. If that gram of street fentanyl is 10% pure, it represents a daily intake of 50 times the lethal dose of fentanyl. It's so hard to tell the concentration of street drugs, much less the identity; it's also possible that this street "fentanyl" was actually a different research chemical altogether, perhaps less potent than classic fentanyl.
I was on methadone, but a dose over 60mg gives me severe adverse reactions. So i have been off methadone 2 weeks. I asked my clinic dr. To microdose me on Suboxone. I use half gm or less per day of fentanyl. He disagreed with the Bernese method and wants me to go 24 hrs then large dose. I have to work everyday and im very concerned about wd.he said i will only be sick for an hour. Im contemplating doing this at home. Im so done using fentanyl. My life is ok but it will be an Amazing life when im free of this death sentence
With the subs not working with the street fentanyl it be due to two things one its synthetic and two we have no idea what it really is i hurd mostly pcp stuff like k idk tho i do know its not like real fentanyl trust me did both in my day 8 years clean now
My drug treatment service (ha ha!) has forced me off methadone i was sick for 4 months solid before relapsing i was hosptilized several times with severe dehydration,and started fainting due to not being able to eat. I ended up relapsing after a decade clean. They will only offer me subutex despite me having FIVE major alergic reactions which put me in hospital each time! What do i do? Theyve put me suicidal they have destroyed my life and made me really unwell
Clean from heroin and crack since 2012, I took Suboxone till 2015. What people don't understand is that people should stay on the drug for at least 2 years so that the brain has time to heal and stops associating the drug with pleasure! It's a partial agonist allowing this.
Methadone works, its not perfect but it works. I was on 90 ml. When i was stabilized i reduced 5 ml a week until i hit 15ml. At 15 ml i reduced 2 a week until 3ml. Then 1 per week. The week of the last ml i took 2 doses and both times withdrawal hit me 15 min later. The second 1 ml does was my last. Its been just over 10 weeks since the last dose. It wasnt perfect but anyone can do it. Stay focused, exercise everyday, eat and sleep. Meditation dont hurt either if u can get into it. Idk what would work for anyone else but i u read this i hope u find your way.
Thank you for sharing your experience! Methadone is a good treatment option for some people, and it avoids the issue of precipitated withdrawal entirely.
The only way I made it off blues or fentanyl is herion 4 days off blues with herion n it's crazy how much better I feel wd I don't get any now I can switch over to sub I belive
I’ve been on Suboxone for years now and I’ve noticed the longer I’ve been on it the more I have to spread out my prescribed dose or I will eventually get sick. It never used to be like that used to be I woke up took my full dose and was fine all day. If I do that now by 10pm at night I’m so nauseous I’m about ready to puke. That’s still taking the full dose but not spreading it out. Does this sound like it’s metabolizing faster in my body or what’s going on I’m very concerned and scared.
My opioid of choice was Oxycodone. I still remember when I first used suboxone I took a whole 8mg strip when I got home from the clinic. Boy! Was I sorry. I passed out due to how horrible I felt.
I'm sorry can you elaborate at all? I'm asking bc I'm a pain patient and they want to switch me to belbuca which is basically suboxone but without naloxone and I'm terrified bc of this. I've honestly read quite a bit of negative things about it so I'm really against this but I'm assuming I won't be given a choice at some point so how did you feel horrible? Was it bc of precipitated withdrawal or did it knock you out bc it was so strong?
I wish things like gabapentin was more available for people like me with severe addiction problems and no insurance because i chose to keep using then go throw the withdrawals with the options i have available to me. It easier to use half a cap a day to stay well then go threw the withdrawal and loose my job and apartment with no financial help or family to let me crash at their house while i detox. Im stuck in a cycle of working and using to stay well. It is terrible honestly
I’m literally dying. I can’t even tell these people who supposed to be well educated on this, how much this hurts. I haven’t slept in days, aside from my irregular sleep schedule- this time it’s, my leg won’t stop twitching, the body aches are death… the hot and cold mix is driving me crazy. Idk what to do or who to ask for help. I just took a sub and clonidine-hoping that it’ll work. Last time I took a sub, I got wicked sick. Which is unusual. The only time I used an opiate this week was Tuesday and Wednesday at like 1am.. I haven’t used opiates before that in a whole year I believe. Idk maybe my timing is off but I pray something works and I find the right help.
I love that you mentioned how Buprenorphine has a high binding affinity particularly in comparison to many other opioids. I've watched so much content where they fail to even mention that, but as someone who loves pharmacology, it irritates me when they leave it out. I used to wonder how they would compare (Buprenorphine vs Fentanyl) regarding their binding affinities, as both are relatively high aren't they.
I have been in doctors office saying this for years and getting in full blown arguments as the throw there credentials in my face while telling me to wait 8-12 hours! It’s not there fault I mean this used to be the case it’s not like they are using the drugs out on the street but they need to understand why am I going to sit in your office and make this up. O yea I forgot typical drug addict stigma lying about medication. It’s just crazy the world we live in. It’s almost hopefully out there for addicts right now.
I did Oxy’s for years on and off. And it was relatively easy to switch on to Suboxone.. HOWEVER, I after used Fentanyl for only 6 months, Suboxone no longer worked for me, and I was forced to switch to Methadone.. Thanks for the info, this helped me fill in the blinks.. P.s. the music/sound effects are great in your video!
New video suggestion - We know of many people struggling to get stable due to synthetics. Can you do a video on the synthetics like nitazene and xylazine that is being substituted now and how to taper or switch from them?
Subutex worked for me but suboxone gave me precipitated withdrawal and I waited 76 hours to take it. Take at least 16 mg for first dose. 8 isn’t enough for fentanyl
It can be. That's why many people prefer to transition to buprenorphine (Suboxone) first and then withdrawal from the bupe. We can mitigate some of the symptoms with other treatments, but there's no free lunch and time is ultimately the only definitive treatment.
That fentanyl stuff sounds brutal. It's really painful to think about the horrendous suffering fentanyl addicts go through. The government prohibition policies that caused this fentanyl crisis are truly unconscienable. We really should have pivoted to decriminalization, education, harm reduction and treatment instead of doubling down on prohibition, incarceration and state violence against US citizens, we could have avoided this mess and saved so many lives, now irreparably ruined or lost. So much pain and death has come from the United States senseless drug policies.
I have PTSD from trying to get off fentanyl to suboxone, i had a full 86 hours off fentanyl and took 2 mg of suboxone and it made everything 10 times worse instant precip. Im still using still because of this experience. I dont know what to do its extremely scary, the dope has changed and i believe suboxone is useless for me and many others. Im going to try to get on methadone tomorrow morning. Hopefully this works better for me.
I’ve never understood why precipitated withdrawal occurs.. when the subs one kicks the opioid off the receptors and binds to them itself, why doesn’t the fact they are now binded to them stop withdrawal occurring seeing as this is the reason for taking them in the first place. I don’t get how they stop withdrawal when taken on their own but cause it when taken on top of other opioids
I hope you answer this and can help. I'm on 150mg of methadone and i still have to use fentanyl a lil bit throughout the day AFTER about 5 or 6 hrs getting my dose. I ALSO have Subutex from my PCP and i was wondering if I could microdose the SAME way, but from the methadone too...as the methadone isn't working obviously. My dad's really sick and needs my help, i thought methadone was going to help me and it's just not. Am i GOING to get to a breakthrough dose or CAN i do the micro dosing with Subutex you think? Thank you for any and all help and answers from ANYONE really although I'd like an answer from the Dr. ❤
Fentanol transition to Buprenorphine is very similar to methadone because of the lipophilic nature of fentanol, Best to transition slowly to buprenorphine while still using it
It certainly does work; I'm glad to hear that it's working for you too! Thank you for sharing so others can feel reassured. The reason I made the video is because so many patients have told me that Suboxone doesn't work for people using fentanyl.
@JackMcG_MD Ok my case is a little bit special I was worried about Precipitated withdrawal so I kicked cold Turkey in detox and got on subs. After my withdrawal to prevent a relapse.
Its interesting how you will withdrawal much faster from fentanyl, vs heroin or pain killers. Fentanyl stores in the fat so it stays in your system for a long time. Even though withdrawals can come on within just a couple hours.
It is a challenging withdrawal to treat for those reasons! Plus, there are many different forms of fentanyl and other opioid research chemicals that are sold as fentanyl. Each has a different half-life, potency, and effects. Some may have active metabolites too.
Clindine does help because with the npf I sweat so much. I have been on .5 gram of npf a day for a year and I have been introducing subutex and taking in a lot less npf and I still feel terrible
Clonidine is pretty clutch for those autonomic symptoms like sweating. It's better as a withdrawal medicine than it ever was as a blood pressure pill, lol.
The micro dosing method was perfectly effective and I’d never do it any other way in the future. Taking a small dose with your opiate of choice for the first 10 days will eliminate 90% of withdrawals
Yup, 2-3 grams. That's what these patients tell me, and I believe them. Street fentanyl is not 100% pure (probably 10-20% fentanyl content by weight if that), but it's still a large dose. With time, the human body can adapt to almost anything. These patients have to use fentanyl every hour or two. Otherwise, they start to develop withdrawal symptoms. In my experience, it's really hard to transition these patients to Suboxone. That's why I say that methadone is probably a better option because there is no ceiling to the dose. I read about a guy who was ordering pure fentanyl from China. He had developed a tremendous tolerance and was using grams (as in 1,000 mg per gram) of pure fentanyl intravenously. When he was arrested, he developed intense withdrawal symptoms in jail.
Ive seen someone, "dab", close to 2 g worth of fentanyl within less than 12 hours time. Based on that, I can see someone using 2-3g/ day.❤WITH MUCH LOVE ❤
Going to start my treatment tmr for fetty, hope I don’t go thru premeditated withdrawal, I heard about it literally today and I’m going in tomorrow, sheesh
How did it go? I've experienced precipitated withdrawal and it is awful. I'm wanting to try subs again because methadone didn't help me. Just curious if you where successful and how long you waited from your last dose of fent till you started taking the subs
It's rare, but some people who use fentanyl will need more opioid stimulation than buprenorphine can provide. They either have to adjust to taking buprenorphine (go through a period of mild withdrawal) or use methadone.
Micro dose the the whole time! I’m telling you from experience. I was snorting 3-5 30s a day depending on how much money I could make. I was able to get off the percs and never got addicted to the subs. I was doing 1/8th doses. 2 for the first 2 days, 1 for 2 days, strip is gone and withdrawals are minimal at this point.
I'm using H bashed with something, not sure what it is, but I noticed 8mg suboxone only took away about 30% of my withdrawals. I've heard people say 2mg cured all their WD but for me I was still bedridden for 4 - 5 days on 8mg sub switching from H. But I could sleep and lie still and watch TV, normally totally cold turkey I would not have slept for the full 5 days and I'd have been flopping in agony. So I think subs do not work well for the stronger stuff. I needed at least 120mg methadone a day to keep me out of WD's from that stuff.
There are some strange research chemicals in the black-market supply. Some of these synthetic opioids are related to fentanyl and others are completely new classes of opioids (like U-49900). We have little knowledge about how these drugs work and we need to be flexible to adapt treatment. It is possible that you were using a very potent synthetic and now have a very high tolerance. In these cases, methadone is a good option because there is no limit to the degree of activation. Buprenorphine's opioid action tops out at 32 mg/day but methadone has no cap. Your report of needing 120 mg makes sense, as 32 mg of buprenorphine is roughly equivalent of 100 to 120 mg of methadone (very rough numbers, as there is no true equivalence).
I tested my dope and it was Major - Protonitazepyne Minor - Diazepam, Etomidate It's the best dope I've ever had but doesn't actually contain any Diamorphine. It's stronger than any Fentanyl I've ever had and lasts longer than any Heroin I've ever had. Only drawback is it's skyrocketed my tolerance. That and for 6 months I didn't know I was taking this stuff. Send your stuff to a lab, my country has 1 called 'Wedinos' and it's free and anonymous. Test sooner rather than later with all the Fent, Zenes and Tranq stuff about. Be safe and roll on the day all this stuff becomes legal so people know what they're taking and how much they're taking. Day that happens watch overdoses decrease by a factor of 10!
You need to look at a graphic of what suboxone which a partial agonist vs what full agonist does in the body… ugh such a complicated subject bc eveyroneeeee has a different dose a diff mindset a different willingness a most important a diff body….
So I’m doing around 15-20 blue’s a day I started microdosing 4 days ago I’m prescribed straight bupe “subutex” I’m supposed to be taking 12 mg but I only take 8mg so over the last 2 years I have a big stock pile of my bupe so I started taking a quarter of a 2 my 4 times a day next day 1mg four times a day total of 4mg then next day I was taking 2mg four times a day total of 8mg while I’m still smoking blues today Monday I woke up I smoked 1 and a half pill and took a whole 8mg pill of bupe and I felt great I took another 4mg so I total of 12 mg while I’m still smoking blues I think I smothered my receptors with bupe 🤞🤞🤞I keep like 30 blues on me my goal is not to smoke no more by Thursday and just take my bupe but i did do the protocol and today I took a whole 8mg did not get sick we can it all of us but get you a stock pile of bupe and blues before you start the process but I think I overlapped my receptors 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
In the US, you can actually ask your primary care doctor now. The law changed in 2023 to allow any doctor with a DEA license to prescribe Suboxone to their patients. You can also seek out a clinic that focuses on treating addiction specifically (disclaimer, I run such a clinic myself) or go to an addiction treatment center (Suboxone can also be dispensed from methadone clinics). The availability of these sources depends on your location. In cities there are many places to get treatment whereas you might have to drive for hours to reach a clinic if you live in a rural town. (A lot of people are working to improve access, but it is still a problem.)
.5mg is too high of a dose if u do 2 to 3 pills of fentanyl a day. Cut it down to .25mg to be safe which is cutting the .5mg in half then u should be good. I’m not a doctor I’m a user good luck
There are a few different micro-dose protocols but the most common starts with 0.5 mg buprenorphine. Practically speaking, it can be difficult to divide a Suboxone film into 8 or more pieces (necessary to obtain a dose of 0.25 mg or less), and I think that factors into it as well. Lower dose buprenorphine films are available commercially (sold as Belbucca) but it is not legal to prescribe them for the treatment of opioid use disorder, as they lack an FDA indication for that. (You can thank the Harrison Narcotic Tax Act for that.)
Weird because I'm not sure there is a .5 mg normally there 8mgs or 4mg so 1/16th a pill if you are saying half and full and full pill is too much your probably talking about an 8mg
You don't sleep but you eat and have dopamine for like 3-4 days after use with buildup. I recommend using those 3 days to slowly intro bup but without narcan so no suboxone
I actually explain this in the video. You can divide a 2mg/0.5mg Suboxone film into four sections using scissors to create that 0.5 mg dose. It does not work well with the tablets, because they crumble instead of dividing evenly. @@robertbritt3129
Very useful had no idea why I was getting precipitated WDsafter so many days after quitting up to 10 days later.. thank you am now on methadone still hate it but works much better immediately than suboxone
I'm trying kratom get to off and also help lower my dosage I read on another video I can't remember it was a comment like I said in Canada he bought a lot of Kratom and it took him 14 days to get off of it so I'm going to try this I started a week ago I want a goal is to get it completely stopped and traded off of that to the kratom and then detox from kratom
Ok. I wasn't a huge user but I used fentanyl every day to function. Then I was on methadone and was still using infrequently. And switched to Suboxone. And it worked for me when I stayed clean for a year and a half.
My personal experience on starting Suboxone safely is waiting a full week before starting and even then only micro dosing with the Suboxone. Yeah waiting that long sucks but precips are beyond brutal!
I've done it. It's extremely tuff. But you can definitely do it,, your doing the right thing if your on this guys comments,, But the Micro dose induction he mentioned in this , Is definitely the route to take , Now if your at a Higher tolerance, I'm no pro at this But methodone is the other option,, But It's all up to you my friend,,
I went to detox and on day 3 they started giving me auboxone 8mg every hour until stabilized. And left day 5. I didn't really have much precip withdrawals. But I'm skinny. People with more fat or higher usages were really sick. But it sticks to fat molecules I was told
Most rehabs and detox centers does not follow this method and does not care about your withdrawal. They still use the basic 4mg 2x a day method or 8mg if you're lucky. But they start you immediately on a specific dose and lower it. If you get sicker, oh well.
I’m curious with the fentanyl uptick and almost everyone being on that vs a true opiate why sub drs can’t prescribe a 30 day supply of methadone along with some sort of IOP vs standing in line at the crack of dawn? Has anyone heard if there is any plan to reformulate subs into something similar that won’t ignite the paws? Alot of people won’t see a sub dr when they initially would have because of paws
Lets all remember that synthetic/ pharmaceutical opiates are made with precision and have longer shelf life in your system than heroin. Id rather kick off heroin than methadone and suboxone. And ive done all 3. Synthetics are harder to kick
Some people just don't get percipitated withdrawal. I don't. I've gone straight from taking dilaudid to 3 hours later taking a Suboxone. I know a girl who is the same way, but i know people who get percipitated withdrawal bad.
different combined concoctions of the drug coulda came from china coulda came from iraq could came from mexico or your dealer wasn't giving you what you thought...east coast west coast and mid west are so different when it comes to the drug
Today is day 6 for me off of heroin/fentanyl IV use. I took subs on the 2nd day and got really sick. I was like hallucinating. Now I'm on day 6 and I've been taking subs everyday but it's not doing anything for me? I use to be in subs and they gave me energy and worked and now that I'm on them again this time they aren't doing anything at all. Why are they not working for me?
Recently I had 4 8 mg strips throughout a single night and I was still in withdrawl I have never ever experienced that in my life ever usually Even 4 mg is enough. So this video makes sense.
general question now i have a friend who is trying to get off the opioids they are taking seboxone but their metabolism is really fast like even the affects of oxycodone and morphine are out of their system in an hour or 2 at most will that affect the dosing times for the seboxone?
I was on methadone for pain management and I had to go to jail for driving without a license and the county I was in didn’t have methadone like most other jails in New York. They made me withdrawal from methadone,Seroquel and I had Covid… It was the cruelest experience in my life. I wanted to go back to the methadone clinic, but they were going to start me out at 30 mg and the fact that you have to go every day is ridiculous. I am on 32 mg of Subutex now and still get horrible cravings. We wouldn’t have a fentanyl problem if people could just get the opioids they need.
Went through this in Dallas County. Straight up torture as far as I'm concerned.
That's why I don't want to go to the clinic. Having to go every day is ridiculous. Also they start you at such a low dose. I need to be around 100 120.
I agree, the whole 'war on opiates' was brought about by fentanyl. Once they started taking away people's legit prescriptions, they basically forced them to go to dealers. I hate that they think that somehow being under government control with a prescription is worse than going to a dealer. That's not a deterrent for using, that's just pushing them in one direction. I know I never would've fallen into illicit opioid use if they hadn't canceled my prescriptions. Total and utter ridiculousness. I feel like a lot of doctors worry more about their licenses and prescribers worry about their liability, all more than the consequences of doing these things. Also, hospitals giving really strong medication only to prescribe something MUCH weaker is a major reason why people become addicts as well. I got in a major motorcycle accident 10+ years ago and they had me dosed with Dilantin every 2 hours, then when I got out they prescribed me 7.5mg Norcos. They may have still been the old formula and the peach ones, but they still weren't comparable.
@@RuthMartin-sp1uhhow you know you need all that methadone People get to a high dose cuz they don't want to wait until the methadone get to your sistem it take a least 10 days ,i was in methadone for 19 years 90 mg and was enought People get more then that are sleeping all day ,nobody need a 100 mg for what ,them when you try to get out its almost impossible, i use subuxone for 2 years too ,those 2 druds are the worst to detox.
Yesssss! We need to fight and get out medications back! Crack Era, Opioid Epidemic, and the $ that is made on Black Market on $820 of fentanyl, yields a whipping $820,000.00 in PROFIT...! THAT'S CRAZY!
I AM SO FOR HAVING DOCTOR'S JUST PUT IS ALL ON OUR MEDICATIONS!
C'MON NOW, WHEN DR'S SAY, "OH, WE CANNOT GIVE NARCOTICS TO AN OPIOID ADDICT OR DEPENDENT PERSON, THAT'S NUTS! OPIOID DEPENDENT PEOPLE ARE THE ONES THAT CAN HANDLE OPIOID MEDICATIONS OR ANY OPIATE MEDICATIONS IN LARGE DOSES!
I myself went through precipitated withdrawal after 78 hour from last use. It was absolutely horrible. There is no real way to gauge how much fentanyl I was using as it varies from source to source but I will say 50 pills a day didn’t get me high. After going to the hospital and getting some vivatrol and whatever else the put in me I was able to relax a lot more temporarily. The precipitated withdrawal made me so weak and frail unlike any other time I have ever detoxed. Glad to say I have not touched any mind or mood altering substances since Jan. 2023. I pray that never happens again. I don’t wish that upon anyone.
Vivatrol will put you in precipitated withdrawal
@@forrestcason3584i don't think he get vivitrol cuz tu use vivitrol he have to wait a least 2 weeks i get a vivitrol shot 10 days after detox methadone and end it up in a mental hospital for 2 weeks i lost my mind for real i was super sick.
@@forrestcason3584 right. Feel like this guy made this all up. Vivitrol for withdrawal at the hospital then I felt better? Ya no.
Pills have gotten SO much worse quality since you got out the game! All the pills are bunk now. Powder and black tar is even back. The blues are done. They're all trash. They used to be super strong.
I had to micro dose once I got a full dose finally I still went through 4 days of full withdrawal before it worked at all. I had precipitated wd with even a tiny peice at first it was horrible. I could over ride that with more drugs but the Bernese method was the only way I got it to work. I only get 16 mg though and really need more
I was trying to switch from Methadone to Suboxone and waited over 72 hours and I still went into really bad precipitated withdrawals..the precipitated withdrawals traumatized me so much I was scared to take another doss of Suboxone... so scared I ended up just going cold turkey off of it all, which was not the plan.. but I am almost 7 weeks opiate free. I know not everyone can cold turkey but I got very strong will power so knew I could do it... dealing with some post acute withdrawals now and that has been harder than the acute withdrawals...but im keeping up the fight!
The post-acute withdrawal phase is a real challenge and I wish you the best. Are you getting medical care to support you? Even if you don't want to use Suboxone or methadone, there are people who can help.
@@JackMcG_MD my methadone Dr is still keeping close tabs on me and I've been getting stuff to help sleep and for anxiety. Even with sleep medicine I'm still waking up all night long, I notice my bad days are really bad on the nights I didn't sleep much or woke all night.. today is a bad day for me..but I had a few good days in row earlier this week.. definitely not easy and you got to be extremely strong willed to fight this
Methadone the worst cause it stays on your receptors for so long
@dustinhagy1546 yes it was horrible and quite the challenge to get off of especially after 6 years on it but I managed to do it, I'm at day 68 or 69 something like that, I'm starting to lose track of the days....but glad to be off and finally feeling like a normal human being
You know u can start subs before you start using again... if u start wanting to get high dont put yourself thru this again. Theres NOTHING wrong with accepting that this addiction is bigger Than your willpower
Withdrawals are like an exorcism
You aint never lied i just tried too come off it ni meds felt like something in my body making me cringe and eritated cant think nose running throwing up cant eat cant do nothing
speaking in tongues.
@ubermensch8627 I cannot imagine
Literally dude idk y I continue continuously put myself thru it😭😭
Is an exorcism
Imagine if there were more doctors like this
who actually cared about patients health and well-being? Insane what this world has become
Finally, a Doctor explains this correctly. Thank you so much! I can't tell you how many horrible videos Doctors have made regarding this topic. That was explained perfectly. I need your advice Doctor. I had 15 years sober from heroin addiction. Last year someone manipulated me into using fentanyl. I've been hooked for a little over a year. I'm on methadone and as of this moment, I'm three days sober from fentanyl. The withdrawals from this drug however overpower the 110 mg of methadone that I'm taking. I've tried countless times to detox and I've never made it past 3 days. My doc just raised my dose to 125mg methadone in a split dose of 65 in the morning and 60 at night. This seems to help. How long should I expect this detox to take? I'm in extreme pain as if methadone is much less effective for fentanyl compared to heroin. Please give me some truthful advice on what I can expect. On this 3rd day, the pain intensified.
My heart goes out to you. Fentanyl can wreck your tolerance in short order. Things will settle with time as your brain re-equilibrates to the prior baseline. I can't recommend any specific treatments without examining you in person, but I would encourage you to talk with your doctor about non-opioid medications for your symptoms. Let them know that you're dedicated to getting better and want to avoid a relapse, but need a little help in the short term.
@JackMcG_MD i completing my 6th day. Im never going back doctor. I hating using fentanyl. Im will say the withdrawals are getting better but i still feel miserable even with 125mg methadone. Im believe tomorrow i will be much better. I thank you for responding.
@@danr4746hope you're doing okay my friend!
Yes and then there’s the doctors literally here on TH-cam saying “The cure for precipitated withdrawal is more Suboxone!” Maybe trying again after waiting another 24 hours might work but taking more sub right away is how you make the withdrawal even worse.
I'm on 100mg of Methadone. It took me about a month going to the clinic before I felt much relief. Fent just wrecked me. What helped tremendously was getting prescribed Gabapentin with my Methadone. That combination really seemed to do the trick
Really appreciate this educational video. The game has changed big time and it’s absurdly hard to find any helpful info as to what’s out there on the streets today and the wd associated with it. Been fighting demons for the last 4 yrs, but specifically 2 straight. I’m terrified to face the inevitable but it’s high time (pun intended, I guess) I get my life back. Sending love and strength to all fellow addicts out there, esp those who are actively tussling ♥️
More doctors NEED to be open to microdosing! Fentanyl has changed the game! Microdosing saved me from precipitated withdrawal and I am so thankful!
Or alternatively, macro-dosing. I’ve read some ER doctor in Canada giving 72 mg as an initial dose..
@discdoggie There is a ceiling effect in suboxone. Usually at 36 mg or less. 72mg is never prescribed.
@@therealgodsjoshuamatthew7633 it is given in ERs Read about it (High Dose induction) When patients are brought into the ER with PWD from being administered naloxone for a fentanyl overdose, macrodosing WORKS.
@@therealgodsjoshuamatthew7633there’s medical journals studied they gave a guy over 200mg over 24 hours when he put himself into precipitated withdrawal
@@therealgodsjoshuamatthew7633
This isn't as a daily dose. This is to get you through precipitated withdrawal as quickly as possible. Some Drs here will give an 8 mg Subutex every hour until the withdrawals start easing off.
This is the "macro" approach instead of the "micro" approach.
thank you for saying this !! i had sooo many drs call me insane or say i was drug seeking. i was script suboxone THREE times before they LET me try methadone. i overdosed on fentanyl in the year in between sub n methadone, bc i thought it was hopeless. sooo much misinfo comin straight from drs. one time the er gave me a bup pill, i mean 100% sub no narcan, and it helped me. so they charted that suboxone was effective for me. then handed me 30 suboxone + narcan films. that made me so sick, 48hrs after any fet, 24hrs after the pill of pure sub. ended up back in er, but oh no i’m drug seeking, bc sub “works.” the drs didn’t understand the difference between the literal chemicals making up the meds !!! so i gave up on drs for a long time. eventually ended up in the er w a arrhythmia from fet withdraw. they finally put me on methadone. saved my life. i’m now sober off methadone too !! but it took 7 hospitals. 3 weeks in telemetry. many ignorant drs. THANK YOU for being educated !!!!!!! 💕💕💕
Great video! Great information! Very educational. I live in AZ, and some of these sober living homes make you get off of seboxon if you want to stay living in the home. These people running these homes need to be educated!
Are you in Prescott
Excellent video, information presented in a clear and concise way. I've been in active recovery from opioid use disorder for over 15 years. Buprenorphine saved my life.
Would love to see a video exploring the topic/idea that people on medication assisted treatment have to stop taking their medication at some nebulous point in time.
This concept seems to be unique to addiction treatment. People suffering from other chronic illnesses dont typically discuss or need to consider the idea that they need to stop taking medications that effectively treat their illness. People with Diabetes dont have to think about "quitting" insulin, or people with hypertension think about getting off of their blood pressure medication.
There's so much stigma surrounding substance use disorder treatment, and so much misinformation out there, would love to hear your thoughts on the topic.
Subs have been helping me, no withdrawal issues coming off of fentanyl. I waited about 72 hours before taking 8/2 mg suboxone. Lowering intake also helped
The 72 hour wait is what is excruciating
@@kellibarker7096I didn't even wait myself. I'm currently on day 5 using the Bernese Method. The night before I began I did fet as usual and when I woke in the morning I started on .5 MG of sub and no pwd. I've seen plenty of other people say otherwise tho so I'm sure it varies by person.
@@kellibarker7096i’m not even on hour 28 and i’ve been needing something for relief for the past 8 hours. i took a very small dose of my sub. like .5 or so and i’m gonna wait until the 30
how much/how long were you using if you dont mind?
There are a few things I can say. While I was on Suboxone (I take Methadone now)I used to skip my dose for a day so I could use Morphine for a few days and go back to it before the pharmacy cut me off. I'd wait until the Morphine had worn off just enough that I was starting to feel a little bit sick and I could take the Subs again with no issue. I once tried doing the same thing but with Fentanyl... I'd been saving up my doses while I used so I had a few days worth. When I started to feel sick I took the first dose and it made me sicker by quit a bit. I thought maybe now my receptors are clear, so I took a second dose. It made me sicker then I knew was possible. If any one had seen my behavior they would have thought I was possessed by the Devil. Speaking in tongues. Thrashing in bed wildly. Out of total desperation and having nothing else to try, I took a third dose. Within ten minutes I was ok.
The only thing that story doesn't cover is that those times after using Morphine some times Id take it a little too soon and I'd get mild withdrawal for 10-30 mins, then it would start working.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
I do the same with fent. I take small doses until I built up to 16mg. I still will use, and I assume since I had taken 16mg I was already induced. But when I take 8mg, I'll feel symptoms for about 30 mins and then I'm fine. I tell myself if I don't have RLS, and hot/cold flashes, then I'm not in withdrawal.
I highly suggest you get back on Suboxone. I've been clean from heroin since 2012, Suboxone since 2015. The trick is to take the medication for at least 2 years to allow your brain to heal and to stop associating the drug with pleasure! Suboxone is a partial agonist allowing this.
Yeah, you have to already be on 8 to 16 mg of bupe to be able to do fent and go back. You can safely do 1 to 2 days of fent then go back to sub. I made the mistake of going 7 days straight with fent and it took 3 days for me to get back on sub. Then I went a few months straight on fent, had to get on methedone then had to go to rehab to get back on sub. Now I'm taking the shot next week
@@brandonharmon5556how long were you on the domes before you got back on the subs? & did you ever get the shot?
72 hours isn't neerly long enough if a person has been on Methadone.
So Methadone is just as Bad or worse than Fentanyl as far as Getting it out of your system?? I was thinking about going on Methadone to taper down to Get on Suboxone.. If so, I have to figure something else out because I heard you have to go to the clinic literally every single day (between 5am to 10am 🤦🏾) and they are 20+ min from me Driving (1 Hour 45 Min by Bus) and My car is Down 🤦🏾💯 So... Yea... I gotta figure something out.. But I am Terrified of Taking Subs after a HORRIFIC Experience 🤦🏾
Methadone has a super long Half life. To switch from M to Sub you need to be down to 30mg and then start microdosing the sub. .05 twice a day then work your way up
I had a doc tell me to take a full dose of sub after 24hr of last use and it out me into full blown wd in 10 mins so bad i was in hospital for 3 days. I even told the sub doc i was scared to death of precip wd and they didnt listen. I prey for myself and eveyone else whose struggling and cant ask for help from physician's due to the stereotypes and the snub nosed looks.
Oh well ... ~2 decades ago I wanted to buy my next you know what, but couldn't get any, so a guy gave me what's called "Subutex sublingual" in my country (and pretty sure is the same crap) instead, to pass the waiting period.
Back then I only knew, others get it against withdrawal but had no clue there's a blocker like naloxon in it and snorted several small lines of it.
After what initially felt like tolerable coke I got the withdrawals of my life, so a friend gave me a nice amount of benzos to calm me down and although I usually hate needles, several hours later I shot up h, which didn't help much but also didn't do any more damage.
I've never tried that crap again - I saw people commenting it "saved their lives" but can't imagine how they transitioned to this bs - thankfully we've also other options here, as this was so bad I still remember it as if it just had happened yesterday.
Most here are on morphine and I've cut contact to lots of people from my past.
I really feel horrible for Americans being put through this torture.
So why did you take it? Doctors work for us. Not the other way around. I'm an addict too. I get it, but we have to stop believing doctors know everything. We also have to stop believing doctors have our best interests in mind. They don't. They're all bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical industry. It's sickening but it's true.
every dr i have gone to and every detox and rehab DO NOT listen and put me in PW. I will no longer go..
This is interesting. I work in the addiction treatment field. More and more people are starting to say that they have waited three to four days after their last use of fentanyl and they still went into precipitated withdrawal. Thanks for explaining why
They lied or they just weren't sick enough. This is coming from an addict. Over 20yrs experience with subs
@@dmo848 how long should I wait to microdose
They arent lying. The problem is that its not just fent anymore. I waited about 52 hours on fent any pretty easily switched over to subs. The first time. The problem is that its not just fent anymore. Its tranq and gawd knows what else. The second time I waited about 86 hours still went into such horrible precip I ended up in the hospital for 4 days and still couldnt handle it. You think youre on fent and it probably does have a little in it. Cause i know i was testing for it.
This was very informative and helpful- I’m going to show my physiatrist this.. maybe she’ll get it and take me serious
Ibogaine I’m hoping, is the answer for my Suboxone dependence. I’ll find out in January when I go to Mexico for the treatment.
Ibogaine is interesting as a treatment possibility, but the evidence for long-term results is lacking. If it is used, it should be in the form of a comprehensive treatment plan. I can't give medical advice on TH-cam, but if you're interested in learning more, I have a video on the subject: th-cam.com/video/5gJAbkSDPJI/w-d-xo.html
So how is it?
@@Dead_Again1313 things got delayed with getting my passport. I finally got it in the mail and will hopefully be going near the beginning of March
@@scottym6680 Thanks for the response. Ibogaine is one of those that I know almost nothing about but I've seen it mentioned occasionally. Hope you're hanging in there.
@@scottym6680Did you get the Ibogaine?
I was going to say from experience I have had worse precipitated withdrawal symptoms from fentanyl any other opioid
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've seen a few people who use fentanyl with precipitated withdrawal from Suboxone and it does not look pretty. That's what motivated me to learn more to help my patients!
Yes your throwing up while pooping an sweating its an its 100x worse than regular withdrawal
Mate you know what it's like to live in hell,I been there too.
Literally nothing worse it's torture 😫
I see a lot of people talking about switching from methadone to suboxone and how bad it is.. and I can imagine, if you do it completely wrong.. to switch from methadone to suboxone the burnese method is the best choice.. but if you MUST do a normal induction then you have to wait a minimum of 5 days from last methadone dose, and 7 is even better. Also if you have a compassionate doctor they might could stop your methadone and switch you to a short acting opiate for about a week, then go into withdrawal much faster and induct.
Thanks for explaining in simple ways for lay persons. I recently read in opioid rotation that Metadon have a half time that varies much, from 12 to 34 hours. What does this means for the many I spoke with claiming to wake up in the morning with withdrawel that they endure for hours while getting to the clinic to get the daily dose, hardly managing. Doctors are obligated to do no harm but they systematicly inflict great harm on very many people I talked with. It seems they do not care about the complaint of withdrawel at all. With regards, ret nurse from Norway.
It is possible to experience withdrawal symptoms between doses if the patient is a rapid metabolizer of methadone or is using drugs that induce metabolism (carbamazepine is a common suspect). You can confirm this suspicion with quantitative methadone testing or genetic testing, but this is rarely done because it is expensive.
In such cases, it may be necessary to increase the patient's dose or allow them a second take-home dose to use in the evening.
I had to split dose, if I took 120mg in the morning I'd be super sleepy 4 hours later, but by 10pm I could feel the methadone wearing off and by the next morning I'd be in pretty bad WD I'd almost throw up my next dose. I had to take 60 - 80mg in the morning then again at 4pm. It just would not last all day for me.
Suboxone most definitely works, you just need to know how to get back on it... microdosing induction or high dose induction. There is no longer a need to be in withdrawal first before starting Suboxone. No need to be tied to a methadone clinic
Yeah microdosing is the only way to do it with fentanyl now. Fetty is so unnaturally powerful that I wouldn't be surprised if a withdrawal does actually end up killing someone at some point.
It sure does! I made the video after hearing from multiple patients who felt that Suboxone was ineffective for people using fentanyl. Thank you for the comment!
I’m struggling with this now. I was on Fetynal. Scared of precipitated withdrawals. I'm 2 days clean now and don't know when to take my subs.
@@Aryan-xb5idI was at 30 hours and it was definitely too soon but in my experience 40+ hours was enough.
@@Aryan-xb5id it will take some time I took me a week before I could take Suboxone and another week before it worked I would suggest microdosing while still on fentanyl
The problem is that when you sign up at a methadone clinic, they won't start you at a high enough dose to combat fentanyl withdrawals. Also, every detox I've ever been to won't give more than 12mg of suboxone the first day and then tapering down from there. It's time that these facilities update their treatment protocol for patients coming off of fentanyl because they are all set up for someone coming off of heroin or oxy.
There are legal limits to the initial dosage of methadone. They cannot give more than 30 mg as a first dose and no more than 40 mg on the first day. It's possible to give more, but the program has to submit a form documenting the exception (which functions as a hard barrier for most patients).
There are no federal limitations on buprenorphine dose, aside from internal protocols adopted by the program itself. They could give whatever dose they believe is reasonable (provided they can justify it). The issue is that these programs are very conservative and do not want to be the first to use a new treatment protocol. The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.
@@JackMcG_MDthey need to change that cause that's not even giving the person a chance . You would think they are doing something about it but nope . Where I live in CT. Yale is starting a program with letting pcp prescribe methadone to see if it works out . To many rules and regs at methadone clinics and they weaponize privileges like take home bottles it's just ridiculous and translates into a huge percentage of addicts who are out of reach of this treatment option . I like your videos keep them up .😊
My rehab was giving me 24 mg a day.
I agree
Ya it's bs. 40 MG the 1st day and than at least another week to get to to 100mgs. Which probably still isn't a stable dose. I understand they have to cya.. I'd be willing to stay under observation if they'd be willing to do 10mgs an hour until stable does is reached.
I took subs 11 hours after my last use and it saved my life
Me i did in 8-9 hours
@@isaiahhardy9980 how did u feel where u ok
Use of fentanyl?
Ok, i hope someone can answer this. I waited 16 hours after using fentanyl to take Suboxone, I took 8mg/2mg, after 2 hours I was in full precipitated withdrawal. So I did more fentanyl until I was no longer having withdrawal. But here’s the kicker, that was 64 hours ago and I feel great. I had been receiving smaller amounts of fentanyl than I was used to for about 6 days before i decided trying Suboxone so blood levels were probably lower than usual. But I’ve had nothing at all for 64 hours and i thought i should be having withdrawal by now. Has anyone experienced this?
YES 😮 ....
How’s it going?
@@OldeDog_NewTricks I’m glad someone said something, after day 4 I started having withdrawal so I started taking Suboxone at low doses and slowly worked my way up until i found myself not needing more and now I take 4 mg a day. I’m still dependent on something so it’s been almost a month and I’m starting to taper down from the 4mg hopefully to zero as fast as I can handle it without relapsing, I’m using a taper schedule from 4 mg over a 36 day time frame and I’ll pause when it gets too much
The suboxone stays binded to the receptors longer. So when you used your fety. You woke the receptors that the suboxone wasn't on and tickled them until they were happy. Hence withdraws went away. Then went the fent finally fell of the receptors. The subs were still attached to the other receptors. Actually seems like a smart way to do it. Transitioning
@@b2manufacturingi dropped my dose half each day and dealt with easy withdrawals for 12 to 18 hours. Was doing 60 pressed fetys a day
ZERO MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS TELL US THE TRUTH AS BIG PHARMA FEEDS THEIR FAMILIES
Buys there jets you mean?
I was out on fentanyl for 2 years. Got me all messed up 150 mcg every 2 , not 3 days. I was then out on methadone. Went easily. Then quit 50 mg to 30 and couldn't do it. Kept going back early as my body wanted the 50 mg ...but I went through withdrawals 4 days methadone. Horror. That and Klonopin. Major horror. I was put on Suboxone 16 mg which after 2 weeks I realized I only needed 12. The. A year later went to 8. Then took less than 8 mg a day for 10 year in 3rds. Bite a piece of 8mg 3 times a day and always had a piece extra. Then I dropped in 2019 to 2mg. Not bad really. But last 4 years it's been very easy to notice dropping. So I'm praying for sublocade shot 100 3 of them and walk away. I'm so done.
You should be fine since your at such a low dose. Actually the 100 mg might be too strong at first
I was on suboxone, had a relapse and overdosed twice from fentanyl, even with the suboxone the shot of fentanyl still took me out both times. Dead on my bathroom floor and even after coming back with narcan I was still nodding out. Buprenorphine and naloxone will not always block fentanyl. Im now 2 years clean with the help of Methadone. Stay safe everyone and please, always practice harm reduction.
proud of you brother, 2 years you should be proud too. stay the course. you are a true hero
Methadone is so much worse ,it harms your body so much ,you start losing teeth bones hurt and the withdrawals are so much worse and last so much longer ,yes it helps right away but the price to pay is much worse ,stop taking that poison you are better of staying on fentanyl ,hopefully you just stay clean from everything.
I dealt with this for month and months before I gave up and went to methadone at 280 mgs I finally had relief from withdrawl
Were you using a large amount of fentanyl?
@@JackMcG_MD yes sir I was using about 2 grams a day for about 10 months straight thats when it started getting financially impossible to keep up with
If you are smart get off of the methadone it's slowly killing you I was on 340 mgs of methadone and got locked up I was also taking Xanax 4 mgs a day not sure what was worse it took roughly 28 days of sickness before feeling better if you can't say no Suboxone is the way to go I can live a normal life on Suboxone methadone is just like heroin when I came down I was nodding just like heroin and I was going nowhere so if you wanted a normal life switch to Suboxone brother I wish you all the luck in the world good luck and God bless
280 mgs a day!??
Yoo that's definitely too much!
Why so high a dose??
@@JaeEscalona210 yes thats what Im taking a day , thats how much it took for me to stop going through withdrawls it sucked took almost a month to get somewhat stable
Your video helped me not to go back to methadone I am trying holistic ways to treat my pain...❤
please keep me posted. i too suffer from chronic pain and am looking for help. I am on max bupe, max subox, and now sublocade and none help with pain at all which is why they want me on methadone.
Great video doc but had to laugh at 5:40 in the video you show somebody throwing at least a half Ounce of fett down the toilet would never happen that person would be so far from thinking about getting clean they got days to go sorry for inserting my sarcasm
you have to take as little of it as possible and stack the dose over an 8 hr at a time period, like take no more than .5mg at a time to start with for first day if you cant force yourself to wait 24-36 hours to take the first dose of suboxone/subutex. also buprenorphine IS a full agonist when it is taken in amounts under 1 mg but becomes a partial agonist at amounts over that.
Would you be able to explain the procedure in more detail please..
05. Every 8 hours? For how many days? Would you take 05 mg of sub every 8 hours for a few days ? When would you be ready to raise the sub mg? Would every 12 hours be safer?
Thank you, I’m really distraught at this point.
@@madelineanabella6400 it depends on how much you were using and for how long but typically it works better if you sneak it into your system as opposed to just taking a full dose and going into immediate precipitated withdrawal from all previous opiate doses.
@@madelineanabella6400you and me both. i’m on hour 28 and i did take like .5 of a sun at hour 23 or so. i did experience some relief but also got pretty bad RLS during that time but hearing it’s a full agonist under 1mg makes me hopeful
I was on fentanyl for 4 years and did about 10 blues a day. I did the bernese method to get onto suboxone induction. Went to a rehab and was prescribed 16mg a day and as soon as i got out i went to 8mg because i feel like 16mg is way too much. Anyways, today I am 5 months and 18 days clean off all mind altering substances and maintaining my 8mg a day dose! There is light at the end of the tunnel!
Thank you for sharing your journey! It's great to have stories like yours in the comments for folks who are just starting out.
proud of you brothyer, stay the course. you can cut subox in half when tapering down at high doses becaiuse the percentage of receptors that are affected are small. But when you are on lower doses at like 2 mg, each drop is significant so be wary of that. You can drop from 8 mg to 6 rt now and i bet you could handle it.
But anyway.. you be you and stay clean.
i had 30+ days and slipped but quickly back on clean train with 4 days clean again and just got sublocade shot yesterday
I had fentanyl in my system for a month after not doing it
I believe you... It's happened to other's and continues to get worsening 😢❤
@@Angi44469 yeah my rehab doctor and therapist said they been seeing it stay in people system along time like weed
I have been on Suboxone for over 5 years. It has taken away 95 percent of my cravings. Also I am an alcoholic and it also has taken over 90 percent of my alcohol cravings away. And I also talk to to addiction counseling twice a month over the phone.i take 8.2 Suboxone 3 times a day.i haven't relapsed not even once in the 5 years I've been on Suboxone with addiction counseling. NO OPOIDS and NO ALCOHOL consumption either. I get urine tested every 2 weeks.i am very happy and proud of myself. I would recommend SUBOXONE to every addict and alcoholic. LARRY from KENTUCKY 😊😊😊
Yikes...
Now you're a slave to big pharma. Congrats.
Was on methadone for 8 years and got on fentanyl and subs worked for me
Thank you for sharing! It's been my experience that most people who use fentanyl can and do benefit from Suboxone. Only people who use extreme amounts of fentanyl (around a gram of street fentanyl, which probably contains much less pure fentanyl, yet is still an enormous dose) seem to have trouble with buprenorphine, as there is a ceiling at 32 mg/day. Giving more buprenorphine than the ceiling dose does nothing to increase the effects.
Yes, I have treated patients reporting the use of a gram of street fentanyl a day. With time, the human body can adapt to extremely high levels of exogenous opioids. For context, 100 mcg or 0.1 mg is a standard hospital dose of fentanyl for pain, and 2,000 mcg or 2 mg is considered a fatal dose for the opioid-naive patient. If that gram of street fentanyl is 10% pure, it represents a daily intake of 50 times the lethal dose of fentanyl. It's so hard to tell the concentration of street drugs, much less the identity; it's also possible that this street "fentanyl" was actually a different research chemical altogether, perhaps less potent than classic fentanyl.
I was on methadone, but a dose over 60mg gives me severe adverse reactions. So i have been off methadone 2 weeks. I asked my clinic dr. To microdose me on Suboxone. I use half gm or less per day of fentanyl. He disagreed with the Bernese method and wants me to go 24 hrs then large dose. I have to work everyday and im very concerned about wd.he said i will only be sick for an hour. Im contemplating doing this at home. Im so done using fentanyl. My life is ok but it will be an Amazing life when im free of this death sentence
With the subs not working with the street fentanyl it be due to two things one its synthetic and two we have no idea what it really is i hurd mostly pcp stuff like k idk tho i do know its not like real fentanyl trust me did both in my day 8 years clean now
Thanks for your video!
My drug treatment service (ha ha!) has forced me off methadone i was sick for 4 months solid before relapsing i was hosptilized several times with severe dehydration,and started fainting due to not being able to eat. I ended up relapsing after a decade clean. They will only offer me subutex despite me having FIVE major alergic reactions which put me in hospital each time! What do i do? Theyve put me suicidal they have destroyed my life and made me really unwell
Clean from heroin and crack since 2012, I took Suboxone till 2015. What people don't understand is that people should stay on the drug for at least 2 years so that the brain has time to heal and stops associating the drug with pleasure! It's a partial agonist allowing this.
Good point, a lot of people rush and try to taper off Suboxone early. This frequently leads to relapse.
And that is because the Narcotics anonymous snobbs saying ' u aint clean on meds' so sad , many relapse and does this way. @@JackMcG_MD
Methadone works, its not perfect but it works. I was on 90 ml. When i was stabilized i reduced 5 ml a week until i hit 15ml. At 15 ml i reduced 2 a week until 3ml. Then 1 per week. The week of the last ml i took 2 doses and both times withdrawal hit me 15 min later. The second 1 ml does was my last. Its been just over 10 weeks since the last dose. It wasnt perfect but anyone can do it. Stay focused, exercise everyday, eat and sleep. Meditation dont hurt either if u can get into it. Idk what would work for anyone else but i u read this i hope u find your way.
Thank you for sharing your experience! Methadone is a good treatment option for some people, and it avoids the issue of precipitated withdrawal entirely.
@@JackMcG_MD your welcome, feel like myself again
@@fredgfysmith6171 thanks this post gives me hope
The only way I made it off blues or fentanyl is herion 4 days off blues with herion n it's crazy how much better I feel wd I don't get any now I can switch over to sub I belive
I’ve been on Suboxone for years now and I’ve noticed the longer I’ve been on it the more I have to spread out my prescribed dose or I will eventually get sick. It never used to be like that used to be I woke up took my full dose and was fine all day. If I do that now by 10pm at night I’m so nauseous I’m about ready to puke. That’s still taking the full dose but not spreading it out. Does this sound like it’s metabolizing faster in my body or what’s going on I’m very concerned and scared.
You are gaining tolerance to the medication
I take my 8mg of sub throughout the day in a few small doses. I’ve been doing that for years now, and it’s been working well, so I’ve kept it up.
I love your background and sound effects
I am so happy people are starting yo talk about this. No it does not work and even if it did people can't induce because of precipitated withdrawal
My opioid of choice was Oxycodone. I still remember when I first used suboxone I took a whole 8mg strip when I got home from the clinic. Boy! Was I sorry. I passed out due to how horrible I felt.
I'm sorry can you elaborate at all? I'm asking bc I'm a pain patient and they want to switch me to belbuca which is basically suboxone but without naloxone and I'm terrified bc of this. I've honestly read quite a bit of negative things about it so I'm really against this but I'm assuming I won't be given a choice at some point so how did you feel horrible? Was it bc of precipitated withdrawal or did it knock you out bc it was so strong?
@@rebeccazeman9309you will be fine. There's no naltrexone in belbuca. Seamless switch and way less fuzzy feeling.
precipitated for sure
I wish things like gabapentin was more available for people like me with severe addiction problems and no insurance because i chose to keep using then go throw the withdrawals with the options i have available to me. It easier to use half a cap a day to stay well then go threw the withdrawal and loose my job and apartment with no financial help or family to let me crash at their house while i detox. Im stuck in a cycle of working and using to stay well. It is terrible honestly
Why am I still sick half the day after taking my Suboxone
Bout to try this rn just took a 8th of a 1mg sub pill after doine a pressed 30. Going to slowly increase my subxone use and decrese my use of 30s
Your just blocking the high, u realize that right. Subs have a blocker in them
I’m literally dying. I can’t even tell these people who supposed to be well educated on this, how much this hurts. I haven’t slept in days, aside from my irregular sleep schedule- this time it’s, my leg won’t stop twitching, the body aches are death… the hot and cold mix is driving me crazy. Idk what to do or who to ask for help. I just took a sub and clonidine-hoping that it’ll work. Last time I took a sub, I got wicked sick. Which is unusual. The only time I used an opiate this week was Tuesday and Wednesday at like 1am.. I haven’t used opiates before that in a whole year I believe. Idk maybe my timing is off but I pray something works and I find the right help.
Stay strong. I'm 24 hours in. I think I'm going to start micro dosing
Double your dose of sub. Go up to 32 grams. I promise. You'll feel fine. You gotta knock the fetys off your receptors.
@@urlocalsancho8427 don't micro. Take 16 mg. The micro does not work
@@urlocalsancho8427how did it go? Update?
I love that you mentioned how Buprenorphine has a high binding affinity particularly in comparison to many other opioids. I've watched so much content where they fail to even mention that, but as someone who loves pharmacology, it irritates me when they leave it out.
I used to wonder how they would compare (Buprenorphine vs Fentanyl) regarding their binding affinities, as both are relatively high aren't they.
Im so sensitive, that since fenty is a full agonist, when its replaced by bupe which is PARTIAL, I feel that small void.
I have been in doctors office saying this for years and getting in full blown arguments as the throw there credentials in my face while telling me to wait 8-12 hours! It’s not there fault I mean this used to be the case it’s not like they are using the drugs out on the street but they need to understand why am I going to sit in your office and make this up. O yea I forgot typical drug addict stigma lying about medication. It’s just crazy the world we live in. It’s almost hopefully out there for addicts right now.
I did Oxy’s for years on and off. And it was relatively easy to switch on to Suboxone..
HOWEVER, I after used Fentanyl for only 6 months, Suboxone no longer worked for me, and I was forced to switch to Methadone..
Thanks for the info, this helped me fill in the blinks..
P.s. the music/sound effects are great in your video!
New video suggestion - We know of many people struggling to get stable due to synthetics. Can you do a video on the synthetics like nitazene and xylazine that is being substituted now and how to taper or switch from them?
Subutex worked for me but suboxone gave me precipitated withdrawal and I waited 76 hours to take it. Take at least 16 mg for first dose. 8 isn’t enough for fentanyl
This video gave me hope
I hear methadone is one of the worst kicks next to Fentanyl.
It can be. That's why many people prefer to transition to buprenorphine (Suboxone) first and then withdrawal from the bupe.
We can mitigate some of the symptoms with other treatments, but there's no free lunch and time is ultimately the only definitive treatment.
That fentanyl stuff sounds brutal. It's really painful to think about the horrendous suffering fentanyl addicts go through. The government prohibition policies that caused this fentanyl crisis are truly unconscienable. We really should have pivoted to decriminalization, education, harm reduction and treatment instead of doubling down on prohibition, incarceration and state violence against US citizens, we could have avoided this mess and saved so many lives, now irreparably ruined or lost. So much pain and death has come from the United States senseless drug policies.
I have PTSD from trying to get off fentanyl to suboxone, i had a full 86 hours off fentanyl and took 2 mg of suboxone and it made everything 10 times worse instant precip. Im still using still because of this experience. I dont know what to do its extremely scary, the dope has changed and i believe suboxone is useless for me and many others. Im going to try to get on methadone tomorrow morning. Hopefully this works better for me.
It took me a whole 2 months to get over peak withdrawal of Rx fentanyl. 200mcg transdermal patch every 72 hours.
Subscribed
I’ve never understood why precipitated withdrawal occurs.. when the subs one kicks the opioid off the receptors and binds to them itself, why doesn’t the fact they are now binded to them stop withdrawal occurring seeing as this is the reason for taking them in the first place. I don’t get how they stop withdrawal when taken on their own but cause it when taken on top of other opioids
I hope you answer this and can help. I'm on 150mg of methadone and i still have to use fentanyl a lil bit throughout the day AFTER about 5 or 6 hrs getting my dose.
I ALSO have Subutex from my PCP and i was wondering if I could microdose the SAME way, but from the methadone too...as the methadone isn't working obviously.
My dad's really sick and needs my help, i thought methadone was going to help me and it's just not. Am i GOING to get to a breakthrough dose or CAN i do the micro dosing with Subutex you think? Thank you for any and all help and answers from ANYONE really although I'd like an answer from the Dr. ❤
I always wonder that why can’t you just take subutex
@@bretcappola6904 because you'll go into precipitated withdrawals before about 3 days
Fentanol transition to Buprenorphine is very similar to methadone because of the lipophilic nature of fentanol, Best to transition slowly to buprenorphine while still using it
I just want out of this nightmare. I want my life back
Iv NAD helps heal opioid damage and has tons of other benefits
7months off fetty and on subs.. feels like it's working for me
It certainly does work; I'm glad to hear that it's working for you too! Thank you for sharing so others can feel reassured.
The reason I made the video is because so many patients have told me that Suboxone doesn't work for people using fentanyl.
@JackMcG_MD Ok my case is a little bit special I was worried about Precipitated withdrawal so I kicked cold Turkey in detox and got on subs. After my withdrawal to prevent a relapse.
Its interesting how you will withdrawal much faster from fentanyl, vs heroin or pain killers. Fentanyl stores in the fat so it stays in your system for a long time. Even though withdrawals can come on within just a couple hours.
It is a challenging withdrawal to treat for those reasons! Plus, there are many different forms of fentanyl and other opioid research chemicals that are sold as fentanyl. Each has a different half-life, potency, and effects. Some may have active metabolites too.
If you’re Fentanyl and methadone. You must wait a week
No one’s going to wait a week though. Might as well just push through it.
That PW is the worst nightmare ever. It's worse than quitting Fetty cold turkey.
Clindine does help because with the npf I sweat so much. I have been on .5 gram of npf a day for a year and I have been introducing subutex and taking in a lot less npf and I still feel terrible
Clonidine is pretty clutch for those autonomic symptoms like sweating. It's better as a withdrawal medicine than it ever was as a blood pressure pill, lol.
I sweat so bad it's not even funny it's scary at times.
@@JackMcG_MDhighly agree but no doctors I've ever talked to will say this😊
The micro dosing method was perfectly effective and I’d never do it any other way in the future. Taking a small dose with your opiate of choice for the first 10 days will eliminate 90% of withdrawals
I wouldn't touch a sub for at least 2 weeks after using fentanyl
9:35 - 2-3 GRAMS of fentanyl? You mean MILLIGRAMS right?
Yup, 2-3 grams. That's what these patients tell me, and I believe them. Street fentanyl is not 100% pure (probably 10-20% fentanyl content by weight if that), but it's still a large dose. With time, the human body can adapt to almost anything. These patients have to use fentanyl every hour or two. Otherwise, they start to develop withdrawal symptoms. In my experience, it's really hard to transition these patients to Suboxone. That's why I say that methadone is probably a better option because there is no ceiling to the dose.
I read about a guy who was ordering pure fentanyl from China. He had developed a tremendous tolerance and was using grams (as in 1,000 mg per gram) of pure fentanyl intravenously. When he was arrested, he developed intense withdrawal symptoms in jail.
Ive seen someone, "dab", close to 2 g worth of fentanyl within less than 12 hours time. Based on that, I can see someone using 2-3g/ day.❤WITH MUCH LOVE ❤
I believe it! People get to these tremendous doses with regular and repeated use. @@rachellejones1361
I do 3.5 grams a day
Going to start my treatment tmr for fetty, hope I don’t go thru premeditated withdrawal, I heard about it literally today and I’m going in tomorrow, sheesh
gayest name fetty....shut thhhhheeeee
How did it go? I've experienced precipitated withdrawal and it is awful. I'm wanting to try subs again because methadone didn't help me. Just curious if you where successful and how long you waited from your last dose of fent till you started taking the subs
Depends on how much you do and how long you been taking fetnayl
It's rare, but some people who use fentanyl will need more opioid stimulation than buprenorphine can provide. They either have to adjust to taking buprenorphine (go through a period of mild withdrawal) or use methadone.
definitely dustin is right
Us that are dieing thank you for the extreme pain.
Micro dose the the whole time! I’m telling you from experience. I was snorting 3-5 30s a day depending on how much money I could make. I was able to get off the percs and never got addicted to the subs. I was doing 1/8th doses. 2 for the first 2 days, 1 for 2 days, strip is gone and withdrawals are minimal at this point.
I'm using H bashed with something, not sure what it is, but I noticed 8mg suboxone only took away about 30% of my withdrawals. I've heard people say 2mg cured all their WD but for me I was still bedridden for 4 - 5 days on 8mg sub switching from H. But I could sleep and lie still and watch TV, normally totally cold turkey I would not have slept for the full 5 days and I'd have been flopping in agony. So I think subs do not work well for the stronger stuff. I needed at least 120mg methadone a day to keep me out of WD's from that stuff.
There are some strange research chemicals in the black-market supply. Some of these synthetic opioids are related to fentanyl and others are completely new classes of opioids (like U-49900). We have little knowledge about how these drugs work and we need to be flexible to adapt treatment.
It is possible that you were using a very potent synthetic and now have a very high tolerance. In these cases, methadone is a good option because there is no limit to the degree of activation. Buprenorphine's opioid action tops out at 32 mg/day but methadone has no cap.
Your report of needing 120 mg makes sense, as 32 mg of buprenorphine is roughly equivalent of 100 to 120 mg of methadone (very rough numbers, as there is no true equivalence).
I tested my dope and it was Major - Protonitazepyne Minor - Diazepam, Etomidate
It's the best dope I've ever had but doesn't actually contain any Diamorphine. It's stronger than any Fentanyl I've ever had and lasts longer than any Heroin I've ever had. Only drawback is it's skyrocketed my tolerance. That and for 6 months I didn't know I was taking this stuff. Send your stuff to a lab, my country has 1 called 'Wedinos' and it's free and anonymous. Test sooner rather than later with all the Fent, Zenes and Tranq stuff about. Be safe and roll on the day all this stuff becomes legal so people know what they're taking and how much they're taking. Day that happens watch overdoses decrease by a factor of 10!
16mg for at least 3 days then down to 12mg at day 4 and taper from there. Everyone is different
You need to look at a graphic of what suboxone which a partial agonist vs what full agonist does in the body… ugh such a complicated subject bc eveyroneeeee has a different dose a diff mindset a different willingness a most important a diff body….
So I’m doing around 15-20 blue’s a day I started microdosing 4 days ago I’m prescribed straight bupe “subutex” I’m supposed to be taking 12 mg but I only take 8mg so over the last 2 years I have a big stock pile of my bupe so I started taking a quarter of a 2 my 4 times a day next day 1mg four times a day total of 4mg then next day I was taking 2mg four times a day total of 8mg while I’m still smoking blues today Monday I woke up I smoked 1 and a half pill and took a whole 8mg pill of bupe and I felt great I took another 4mg so I total of 12 mg while I’m still smoking blues I think I smothered my receptors with bupe 🤞🤞🤞I keep like 30 blues on me my goal is not to smoke no more by Thursday and just take my bupe but i did do the protocol and today I took a whole 8mg did not get sick we can it all of us but get you a stock pile of bupe and blues before you start the process but I think I overlapped my receptors 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Where do you go to get this treatment started for oneself?
In the US, you can actually ask your primary care doctor now. The law changed in 2023 to allow any doctor with a DEA license to prescribe Suboxone to their patients.
You can also seek out a clinic that focuses on treating addiction specifically (disclaimer, I run such a clinic myself) or go to an addiction treatment center (Suboxone can also be dispensed from methadone clinics).
The availability of these sources depends on your location. In cities there are many places to get treatment whereas you might have to drive for hours to reach a clinic if you live in a rural town. (A lot of people are working to improve access, but it is still a problem.)
.5mg is too high of a dose if u do 2 to 3 pills of fentanyl a day. Cut it down to .25mg to be safe which is cutting the .5mg in half then u should be good. I’m not a doctor I’m a user good luck
There are a few different micro-dose protocols but the most common starts with 0.5 mg buprenorphine. Practically speaking, it can be difficult to divide a Suboxone film into 8 or more pieces (necessary to obtain a dose of 0.25 mg or less), and I think that factors into it as well.
Lower dose buprenorphine films are available commercially (sold as Belbucca) but it is not legal to prescribe them for the treatment of opioid use disorder, as they lack an FDA indication for that. (You can thank the Harrison Narcotic Tax Act for that.)
Weird because I'm not sure there is a .5 mg normally there 8mgs or 4mg so 1/16th a pill if you are saying half and full and full pill is too much your probably talking about an 8mg
You don't sleep but you eat and have dopamine for like 3-4 days after use with buildup. I recommend using those 3 days to slowly intro bup but without narcan so no suboxone
I actually explain this in the video. You can divide a 2mg/0.5mg Suboxone film into four sections using scissors to create that 0.5 mg dose. It does not work well with the tablets, because they crumble instead of dividing evenly. @@robertbritt3129
@@JackMcG_MDthank u for the helpful info 🎉
I wish here in the US we had slow release oral morphine like every other major country does
People are saying there having a hard time gettig off suboxone
Very useful had no idea why I was getting precipitated WDsafter so many days after quitting up to 10 days later.. thank you am now on methadone still hate it but works much better immediately than suboxone
Glad to help! Thanks for sharing your experience.
Well that video was really on beat.
Isn't fentanyl a nitazene?
I'm trying kratom get to off and also help lower my dosage I read on another video I can't remember it was a comment like I said in Canada he bought a lot of Kratom and it took him 14 days to get off of it so I'm going to try this I started a week ago I want a goal is to get it completely stopped and traded off of that to the kratom and then detox from kratom
Ok. I wasn't a huge user but I used fentanyl every day to function. Then I was on methadone and was still using infrequently. And switched to Suboxone. And it worked for me when I stayed clean for a year and a half.
I got off subs...
My personal experience on starting Suboxone safely is waiting a full week before starting and even then only micro dosing with the Suboxone. Yeah waiting that long sucks but precips are beyond brutal!
Has anyone here successfully kicked fentanyl, please tell me what you did
I've done it. It's extremely tuff. But you can definitely do it,, your doing the right thing if your on this guys comments,, But the Micro dose induction he mentioned in this , Is definitely the route to take , Now if your at a Higher tolerance, I'm no pro at this But methodone is the other option,, But It's all up to you my friend,,
I took 18 mgs of suboxone 18 hours. Withdraws disappeared in 4 hours..
I went to detox and on day 3 they started giving me auboxone 8mg every hour until stabilized. And left day 5. I didn't really have much precip withdrawals. But I'm skinny. People with more fat or higher usages were really sick. But it sticks to fat molecules I was told
Most rehabs and detox centers does not follow this method and does not care about your withdrawal. They still use the basic 4mg 2x a day method or 8mg if you're lucky. But they start you immediately on a specific dose and lower it. If you get sicker, oh well.
I’m curious with the fentanyl uptick and almost everyone being on that vs a true opiate why sub drs can’t prescribe a 30 day supply of methadone along with some sort of IOP vs standing in line at the crack of dawn? Has anyone heard if there is any plan to reformulate subs into something similar that won’t ignite the paws? Alot of people won’t see a sub dr when they initially would have because of paws
Lets all remember that synthetic/ pharmaceutical opiates are made with precision and have longer shelf life in your system than heroin. Id rather kick off heroin than methadone and suboxone. And ive done all 3. Synthetics are harder to kick
Some people just don't get percipitated withdrawal. I don't. I've gone straight from taking dilaudid to 3 hours later taking a Suboxone. I know a girl who is the same way, but i know people who get percipitated withdrawal bad.
Everyone is unique and I have heard this from others too.
different combined concoctions of the drug coulda came from china coulda came from iraq could came from mexico or your dealer wasn't giving you what you thought...east coast west coast and mid west are so different when it comes to the drug
Today is day 6 for me off of heroin/fentanyl IV use. I took subs on the 2nd day and got really sick. I was like hallucinating. Now I'm on day 6 and I've been taking subs everyday but it's not doing anything for me? I use to be in subs and they gave me energy and worked and now that I'm on them again this time they aren't doing anything at all. Why are they not working for me?
Fent is a different beast
U gotta take 8mg for like a week straight to build it up in you.
Recently I had 4 8 mg strips throughout a single night and I was still in withdrawl I have never ever experienced that in my life ever usually Even 4 mg is enough. So this video makes sense.
general question now i have a friend who is trying to get off the opioids they are taking seboxone but their metabolism is really fast like even the affects of oxycodone and morphine are out of their system in an hour or 2 at most will that affect the dosing times for the seboxone?
Probably not. Suboxone is very long acting. Especially once it builds in your system. I can go two or three days between doses sometimes.