Actually, of the Jewish or Christian faith or not, if you read the Old Testament, that is exactly the thread throughout the history of Israel leading up to Jesus. Every story in the Old Testament is basically a recounting of how god manipulated bloodlines to create a lineage that produced Jesus. It even uses the metaphor of 'refining' them generation after generation and you can see certain people being prevented from forming a union to create children and other, unlikely people being brought together as, generation after generation, certain people are brought together until the birth of Jesus. The idea being not that Jesus would guide humanity to be invisible to prescience, but rather, more in line with the ultimate goal of the Bene Geserit, the teachings of Jesus would refine some of the savagery out of humanity. Of course, the Christian world, continue their savage momentum just as the non Christian world did, but they also improved and ultimately, the concept of men serving women (opening doors, offering seats, lifeboats on a sinking ship etc), human rights, giving up slavery, unions, international charity etc all came from Christian society. Yes, so did some savage stuff, but savage stuff is the norm for all humans, loving your enemy is not.
@@NR-rv8rz I like the summation. I took a similar interpretation from Herbert's intent though I focused more on the refinement of exploration and stewardship over dominance themes throughout the Bible. God's first decree to man was to populate, fill the earth and become stewards of a life within it. Once corruption was introduced into the human strain, man focused only on dominating other man starting with Cain and Abel, Tower of Babel, Ishmael and Isaac and so on. The nation of Isreal and the coming Messiah would become guides back to the pure purpose of man. And after an enforced peace of 1000 yrs be ready for the final test and next step of populating the universe-- finding balance between harmony of purpose and diversity of method that insures the survival of God's matter based lifeforms.
@@timnebilton9209 An elegant and inspiring take on things Timne. Though, my faith tradition varies slightly on that we consider what we call 'The three blessings' to be not just 'procreate and take stewardship of creation, but rather that 'be fruitful means 'grow to indivisual, personal maturity' in other words (as Jesus said) 'be perfect'. Adam and Eve were on track to be perfect before they fell. So it is: Be perfect as an indivudual is the first part, marry and have children so create a family is the second part. Then, have dominion meaning to take charge in responsible stewardship of the Earth. A tree that bears fruit is a sign of a tree that has grown to maturity/completion.
This synopsis makes it look as if Book 1 of the Dune series is a prequel like The Hobbit was to the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I really appreciate all the work Nerd Cookies is doing and for her expert use of the Voice!
Imagine how all this started..a 9 year old covered himself in larvae, made himself a biological suit, runs like the Flash, able to control sandworms at will then lasted 3,000 or so years to become half man/half worm who saved humanity by being an absolute asshole to humanity until humanity said 'screw this im going' and yeet themselves into the farthest reach of the universe.
Herbert has often said that the story of Paul was to warn people against a charismatic leader. Yet his message seems more confused with the God Emperor because it seems an example of how an absolute authoritarian dictator is actually necessary for human survival. It always felt quite strange to me as if Herbert’s message was that it would take something this terrible for civilization to make it.
Also another read on this is that Leto is like an anti-Paul. He’s not charismatic and is a literal monster. But he is doing what is necessary and teaching the lesson of the danger of centralizing power, it becomes oppressive. Also, him being a monster yet doing the good thing for everyone is a play against the idea of a charismatic and likeable person doing the worst for everyone, like his father did.
@@genmaicha.lapsang did you really feel Paul did the worst for everyone? I didn’t feel that. He felt more like Oedipus- trapped by a horrible prophecy, unable to escape it. He tried to mitigate the violence if anything. But I like your theory as to the construction of Leto II.
Well, if that Sandworm is 500 Meters in Lenght and cannot be harmed by anything, also lives for Thousands of Years, has Psycic Powers unimagined by others...
I feel like you guys don't seem to understand how terrifying something of that size actually is and not only that but sandworms are incredibly hard to kill so I mean he might not be able to eat someone but he can just simply close its mouth and ram into you or simply command you to kill yourself while he's in it idk
The God Emperor was the "tough love" parent humanity needed. He basically set humanity up by their mutual resentment and fear of his tyranny and upon his death, they were compelled to leave to stagnation of culture and society to spread out. Growth through pain and learning through trauma was Leto II's lesson to humanity by way of The Famine Times and The Scattering.
@@rottenmeat5934 lol ironically he didn't reject the "messiah", since he was writing the quetzakkadurac to have been between the harkonen males and the atreides female. Lol Only it didn't happen the way they wanted lol. Also Herbert seemed to forget that Paul atreides was a fremen first, imperialist second, who was actively at war with the imperial family because of their betrayal of his family to the harkonens, so why Paul wouldn't dismantle the empire after beating the sardukar and the emperor after controlling the only source of spice, has always baffled me. Lmao Actually considering the people who wrote the book, it kinda makes sense. Lol "We" didn't get the "messiah" so "we" reject this "one", and "I'll" write it out so that Paul abandons the fremen and becomes space emperor instead. Lmao man kinda reminds me of another group of people bahahahaha
And then theirs the whole marrying the princess haughty pants when he already loved chani. And chani basically became his what?mistress? Considering his upbringing as an atreides, and the love he had for his mother, not to mention the qualities instilled in him from the fremen, ditching chani like that never made alot of sense... And yes I'm aware the the marriage of irulan and Paul was political...but what's the point of politics if you already won? If all irulan cared about was the pomp and pageantry, he could have commanded that she hold her wealth but the station was getting dismantled to go in a different direction. She could still have all the luxuries she was accustomed to... I mean he was the boss, and while yes her family would have conspired to reassert themselves since that's all they knew how to do, to the point they couldn't see anything else. Especially if you control the galaxies only spice production and you've already beaten the empires sardukar. It just seemed so, out of character for Paul. I mean he hadn't completely leapt off the "chosen one" bridge yet.
He had to impress upon humanity a racial memory that would instill in them a desire to never again fall under tyrannical domination. It took three millennia to instill that level of scarring. Three thousand years of oppressing people for their own good. It's hard to know what to think of Leto. Pity is definitely one of them.
@@Anglomachian it was like reading my own thoughts that I couldn’t quite express about the book. Longtime fan of the first dune book (20 years) but only read the following books on this go around. Still not sure how I feel about them haha. Commented that reply coming back from the pub and I’m glad it brought you some joy, as your comment brought me. Much love
@@oclarke31 I on the other hand only read the first book a few years back after being properly introduced to it by someone at work. I’ve read all of the Herbert books but none of the others. God Emperor is my second favorite after the first one. I love the character of Leto II.
Wow... This is so sadly poignant and depressing, yet amazing at the same time. Paul and his son Leto seem to have been born destined for sadness and tragedy. It makes me wonder how Frank Herbert came up with all this. I don't know much about him, but he must have been a rather cynical fellow, well acquainted with sadness or depression. --Having said that, thank you Nerd Cookies for explaining this for those of us who weren't as familiar with the story.
It's a style of writing. Many plays during the 16th century utilized it, romeo and juliet being an example. It's done because it subverts hopes and expectations, and will be more memorable to those who read or watch it.
Frank Herbert with the Golden Path and Isaac Asimovs Foundation are some of the best works of SciFi. Stories and plans that are not just within one lifetime but spans millenia to serve a greater goal.
@@chasx7062 Have seen the trailer explaining that Foundation is really a perfect Apple commercial. Lucky is not the word I'd describe about either of these films, other than luckily, I can choose to avoid both.
@@chasx7062 I took these quotes right out of the official teaser - _Foundation had a huge influence on _*_Star Wars_* and my favorite, _If ever there was a company that sought to connect people it's Apple and that's exactly what Asimov was trying to do._ Add in the major character change with Salvor, just like Liet, and you've got two new adventures that fundamentally don't understand the authors much less respect them and are more than happy to take timeless material and root it in today. You know, that same old Hollywood excuse, _Sci-fi doesn't do well, but I know how to fix it and isn't it exciting that no one ever thought of it before!_ No no, let's just follow the formula and be confused as to how it turns out so badly. So yeah, my takeaway is to get in early on avoiding whatever dumpster fires are coming next. Maybe they can pass through Paramount and then Chibnail for their next reboots. There's some subtlety about your 1984 reference I'm missing. It was an indictment and a warning - so - do you mean that instead it's literally a blueprint now for building totalitarianism? I wouldn't be surprised nor say that you're wrong. Personally I feel like it's all a nightmare where Animal Farm met Fahrenheit 451 but you may be right.
I think that Hwi Noree's greatest regret was meeting the God-Emperor. Her empathic abilities made her aware of what was done to her and how she had been used to trap Leto II. How horrific it must have been to understand the pain a man felt by giving up his love of family, his ability to feel love, and the immense amount of time he bore that burden just to have others try to destroy it again and again.
This blew my mind. God Emperor sacrificing himself to save humanity by creating an uprising against himself which he had planned all along... IQ level 3500
Gene manipulation, an all-seeing God-Emperor, warp space navigators, armies of elite fanatical zealots, different guilds with monopolies on shit...am I talking about Dune or 40ks Imperium of Man?
I love listening to your voice. Its so sweet and gentle and soothing. Sometimes I drift off like a baby, not even knowing or caring what you are saying, just happy to be swattled in the sound of your voice. You are my Hwi Noree.
Thanks. One review of this novel stated simply, "What Herbert has drawn is the most complex and mystifying character in science fiction." I agree. I've read & reread the original 6 books in this series many, many times. I always get something new out them. For me, it's not only about the story or the world that Herbert created. It's about the philosophy, the analysis, and the mental connections one can make between things here in our reality. It will alter your consciousness. tavi.
Great summary of the Leto II era of rule :) Few note the difference between the memories, which are separated by gender, and the past egos, which are only limited by genetic lines. It should be remembered that Leto's rule was much smaller than his time of manipulating the houses of power, which goes on for thousands of more years through his journals. Great video as always :)
I have never read any sci if novels but after watching the movie I’ve become addicted to this frank herbert series. It is honestly fascinating. And these programs created by ultimate fans are just so great to get entrenched in the dune universe. Thanks for the content. Love it
The more I see of this the more I want to learn! Only read the first book and played the games so this channel and quinns just expands and blows my dune mind everyday!
As Siona said, the Golden path was true, but we can't just forgive nor forget the things that the emperor did. That's the question in Dune: does the end justify the means? Siona understand the end, but she rejected the means, and she was right to do so.
I've always wondered if Frank Herbert intended to skip ahead 3,500 years... or found he had written himself into a corner. The same thing kinda happens in Dune itself. The jump from Muad'ib to the Prophet is 2 years, and Herbert just sort of glossed over that Chani bore Paul his first son (at a tender young age), that he accrued a squad of death commandos, that he united the various sietches into a single force, and all in only 2 years. I think that Herbert just didn't have the pedestrian details in his head.
Clyde Doris you should give them a go mate. The end of book one is pretty poor and definitely rushed. I’ve just finished book four and loved them all. The writing and depth matures with each book
The rise and transformation of Leto II had always fascinated me. As well as its effects on Leto II was unique for any character I previously experienced. I wish Frank Herbert had written more about the character. I would have loved to see more adventures of the God-Emperor between Children of Dune and God-Emperor of Dune. As well as any adventures of Siona after God-Emperor.
God Emperor of Dune was that just last sprinkle in the saga that solidified the idea that its probably the best series written, ever. Everything that happened in the 1st book, all the way to the beginning of time tied up neatly. To this day I still find myself in awe with everything that happened in the 4th book.
What stands out most to me was his manifestation. He must have had consciousness for hundreds if not thousands of years prior to being born as Leto, giving himself time to understand the bloodline requirements to generate a physical body with the right characteristics as well as time to subtly guide the efforts of the spice witches.
Captivating stuff. The fact that it took loads of psychedelics and a hybrid human-worm merging to finally bring mankind to peace is indicative of our current situation. Only a hail-marry miracle can save us from certain demise. We must unify. The spice must flow.
@@carson21211 Leto enforced tranquility. Those are his words, not mine. He did not bring peace or stability. He brought a scattering. Human kind fled to all corners of the universe to fulfill an instinct to not be oppressed. Leto created this instinct by enforcing tranquility (sometimes brutally).
Once again your fresh-from-oven pan of Nerd Cookies offer the smoky spice biscuits we all crave. I agree with other commenters that Leto The God Emperor is by far the most interesting character in Frank Herbert’s Duniverse. He blends the role of the classic Trickster with that of mankind’s ultimate predator. Although Herbert himself described his books as his exploration of the Messiah Mystique, when both Paul and Alia became aware of the sacrifice necessary they turned away from the Golden Path. By becoming the God Emperor Leto was the only Atreides strong enough to offer their own life to save the universe: a life of over 3,000 years of being a herdsman of ungrateful and rebellious humans. On a random note many readers have wondered why there are no “aliens” in the books but they fail to realize that in the Duniverse it is the humans that created aliens from themselves: Bene Gesserit, Guild Navigators, Mentats and, beyond most readers’ imagination, the God Emperor. Thank-you again for the nerd cookies. They go great with spice coffee!
God Emperor and Chapter house are my 2 favorite books. They are deep… thoughtful and bring the religious tones of the dune series to the fore. Nice job,👍
The Sacrifice Leto II made for humanity, living all those countless years, without the physical comfort of others, and only your genetic memory and his unbreakable duty to his species to keep him sane. Even though many despised and hated him, he bore their anger hate and loathing, to protect them, and to set them free, Humanity owes Leto II a debt that could never be re-payed. God Emperor's do sacrifice everything for humanity (Warhammer 40K) "When I set out to lead humanity along my Golden Path I promised a lesson their bones would remember. I know a profound pattern humans deny with words even while their actions affirm it."
Did anyone even read the book or do they just like roleplay 40k? He led interstellar genocide and has a line about how he led humanity to darkness, laughing when he says something that Hitler had said before him lmao.
I believe what was behind it was the symbolism of natural processes trump artificial ones. The Kwisatch Haderach wasn't ultimately born from forced marriages and breeding but from the love of a woman who refused to not bear children to the man she loved. The saduarkar were criminals put in an artificial environment to be killers, where the Fremen were humans simply existing in a natural environment. For most of the books the goal is to make Arrakis into a paradise world, but that would kill the sandworms, kill spice production, and in turn doom humanity as withdrawal from spice was death. So Leto merging with the sand trout is in a way the merging of the machinations of man with the merging of the natural cycle. Leto doesn't see himself as a person anymore but a device that is needed to spur humanity onto something greater.
Lots of psilocybin. If you do a bunch, the idea that civilization came as a result of AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF "doing" mushrooms seems to be a little less crazy.
I feel this book was the culmination of Herbert’s message to all of us. In the first three Dune books he illustrated the folly of blindly following leaders. In the God Emperor of Dune he envisioned how humanity could truly evolve beyond it’s self-destructive tendencies and survive in perpetuity. The brilliance of Leto’s journey was that he used humanities curiosity to push them into the future and tempered their desire to be led, and through enforced peace at that. My favorite book of the series. Ultimately, I consider it to be the true ending of the saga, since he was never able to complete the next “chapter” of our potential future.
@@TheMelancholicWriter You've obviously never read God Emperor of Dune. Leto is omniscient. He can see the past and future in it's entirety and stretch his consciousness across the entire known universe which he uses to lock trillions into his vision of the future. He possesses superhuman speed, strength and reflexes as far as being completely impervious to physical injury and is immortal. Even before his full ascendancy Leto was casually lifting starships off the ground and mind fucking thousands of people at a time. There is nothing a Sith Lord or Jedi Master could do to Leto that would even phase him. His perfect clairvoyance would make it so he could anticipate every move they made years before they made it. They wouldn't be able to hurt him even if given the opportunity seeming as though Leto can tank battle-ship caliber weaponry. The only person that comes close would be EU Sidious but this would depend on the writing. Leto stomps the entire Jedi and Sith orders simultaneously.
@@mdc123-v2v I would love to see a fight with Leto vs the God Emperor of Mankind from Warhammer 40k. The God Emperor from 40k pretty much has the same amount of power for the most part. Not to mention that a majority of his power is holding back chaos (chaos entities reside in the Warp and are by far the most powerful enemies of mankind) as well as using his immense psychic abilities to project the Astronomicon. Without the Astronomicon, human vessels would not be able to travel through the Warp just like how without spice, navigators would be useless. And yes, before anyone says anything, the God Emperor from 40k was inspired by the God Emperor from Dune.
I believe the Golden Path was a necessary evil. People function best in Freedom, that was removed by The Tyrant purposefully. I would also like to humbly point out as I understand the book, Leto II was kidnapped and held hostage. His captors plowed him with spice in order to solicit a vision out of him. Leto II did not 'plan' on taking that much spice, it was forced upon him by his captors. I really enjoyed your presentation. Thank-you for taking the time.
Having briefly studied the concept of the left and right hand path - and also having read the Celestine Prophecy, a modern copy of the Kybalion and a few other obscure reads...this gave me goosebumps on another level and ive never read a page of the Dune series (which is going to change VERY soon)
Thats why the revelations say of an anti-christ uniting the world as One and everyone worshipping as the savior of mankind. But then Jesus comes in and takes the kingdom. But a science-fiction based story is more interesting than a real fucking thing that happens. Oh well magic and miracles are fAkE ..
I read the first book many years ago as we traveled out to visit my uncle who is a big Dune fan and had sent me the book. I had a hrd time plowing through the book. I only read the backs of the following books so these summary's are very helpful! Thank you.
I was wondering if you were going to expand this series beyond the Paul Era/ first book. Glad you did and enjoyed the synopsis as usual. But the way I remember it Irulan undertook the contraceptive program of her own volition out of pure spite and jealousy in hopes that Paul with whom she had fallen in love would turn to her to bear the royal heir instead of a barren Chani and that love of him was also the reason she protected the children after his disappearance and fully renounced her Bene Gesserit affiliation becoming completely a loyal member of House Atreides. And also I remember Paul not being able to see Ghani in his vision, hence him naming her Ghanima: the spoils of war, because she was the bonus that he had acquired alongside Leto. And finally the way I understood Siona's mutation was that it was an invisibility to prescience that worked as part of her or her descendants' being without having to have their own prescience activated and in use; and that it was more effective than the "mechanics" of an oracle canceling another oracle because Leto could perceive other oracles to an extent but even before her prescient awakening Siona would vanish from even his prescient sight. Then again it's been at least 10 years since I read any of these books so I could be remembering incorrectly... Regardless though in my opinion Leto's arc really is the central theme of the saga and all of Dune's story really is his story (his heritage and circumstances, his reign and actions , and the consequences of his having been): all of "time" and all of "humanity" was focused and contained in him and his actions, and no greater sacrifice was or could ever have been made in that universe than the one he made and continued to make through the next-gen worms of the latter books. And the last time I did read any of these books I started with God-Emperor. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on Darwi Odrade and Miles Teg! Keep em coming!
As time goes on in Dune you might think it as a Horror novel, except the scary house is a universe, a universe we wish we never knew, some might be brave enough to try and live in.
I found quite grotesque the transformation of Leto, gave me a lot of anxiety... so yes. Also the description of his death, the sandstrout dismembering him and turning him into semi-conscious pieces. God, fucking horrible man.
Leto wasn't exactly god but he was more or less omniscient. And he could see far enough into the future to ensure humanity survives. The sacrifice he made was huge. How old was he when he made the choice his father could not?
Seemed that part of his plan was to isolate humans on their respective planets for close to the time of our own recorded history on earth. This effectively pressed the reset button on the human race to start over in there spreading. But this time, instead of one planet of origin there were thoughts of them making loyalty to a centralized authority impossible and they sharted to race into the unknown.
One other thing, I’m not sure how GEoD would translate into a movie...assuming that Dune takes off as a movie franchise. In some ways it would be easier because the time frame of the book is actually quite narrow compared to the others. I think that it would work if directed as a horror film. Basically they would have to focus on Duncan slowly giving into the madness and insanity of what is going on around him (until the end of the film). A lot of scenes in the book would work as horror, like the opening or the sianoq scene.
None of the Dune books are horror, not even the Brian Herbert ones. "Fear is the mind-killer." - Dune. Sounds like you're trying turn Dune into Lovecraft. Why don't you just hope for a decent Lovecraft adaptation? Blending the two is just going to piss off 2 huge fandoms.
I just realized that there was a difference in Alia and the twins becoming preborn. Alia had her mothers guidance during the event but the twins didn't have their mothers help. Also Alia had the event happen at a certain time while there might not have been a specific event that lead to the twins being preborn. Could that also be a reason why the twins turned out differently?
As a teacher, I can relate to conspiring for the betterment of others. It is a strange path to walk. In the end, like with Leto II, some of your greatest accomplishments will not even be understood to have taken place. I think Leto's story is also a nod to a true moral path. As human beings, we are drawn to charismatic and attractive people automatically, and many of them take advantage of it. In fact, I think it is almost impossible not to take advantage of an excess of any sort of resource because you lose respect for it, an understanding of its value. Therefore, a truly moral person with power to do so should refrain from attracting, enticing, manipulating, persuading others because not only does it give you control over them, it also devalues your own ability to appreciate resources like love and devotion. What is left then? A person with power must go about setting others free, and, unfortunately, the easiest way to do that is to have those people hate and mistrust them and others like them and learn to rely on themselves. Zen masters practice a version of this. They will often abuse disciples in order to disabuse them of their misconceptions involving value. Show them, in a sense, that desire is pain.
Leto’s story is one self sacrifice, of seeking power not for ones self but for one’s people. To sacrifice yourself and your humanity to ensure to continuation of the species, knowing full well in the end you’ll be hated for it. It’s the ultimate form of self sacrifice.
Lol no its not. Its a story of ego. Humanity chooses its own destiny. One man saying “no, i know better than all of you” is the definition of an evil egomaniacal tyrant
Wow...having slow-read and currently 'audible reading' the entire series I don't remember jack squat about a certain gene that masks against prescience. I just remember the Atreides name being synonymous with badassery. I was in my late 20s when I powered through the primary series and the Herbert/Anderson prequels and sequels so you'd have thought I would have caught some of this stuff.
"Prescient Man overdoses on worm poop in the desert, fuses with worm on a cellular level and gets super powers, turns into K-Mart Jabba the Hutt." Who co-wrote this arc, cocaine?
Yeah, this is a wacko sci-fi plot line for sure, but calling the God Emperor (the prescient, omnipotent, nearly immortal ruler of the whole of the known universe) a "Kmart" version of a boss of the Giant Slug Mafia is way off the mark. Also, Leto begins his transformation in 'Children of Dune' 1976, a year before Jabba's first graphic appearance in the Star Wars comics in 1977, and is fully "fleshed out" in 'God Emperor of Dune' 1981, two years before Jabba's first on-screen appearance in 'Return of the Jedi' in 1983.
I think perhaps the only thing you missed, or at least failed to mention, was that Leto II did have a dominant personality above all of the others in his council of other memory in the form of Harum, who was a tyrant ruler and gave Leto that sense of absolute pitiless cruelty. Although he didn't fall into abomination, he did have to find a balance between Harum and all of the others.
His reign is fascinating. And i have lits of questions about it , and in universe they are still debating it thosandof years afterwards. But he seemed to play the role of tyrant yet was ultimately a philanthropist ( lover of humanity) i imagine his power or the negative aspects were very gradual. The great houses didn't start falling until a couple of thousands years into his reign and a few survived. But his rule seems like a correction of his father's making it so something like this could never happen again. Its like Roman history julius ceaser and his son Augustus and the pax Romana ( roman peace) which only lasted 2 centuries. But both were worshipped as gods .
In effect, Leto seized and consolidated power in order to armor humanity against future absolute tyranny. Because of his actions and out of necessity, a new method of interstellar travel was developed (not dependent on navigators), as well as new methods for melange production. As well, with the future Atreides being invisible to prescience. Therefore he gradually, but completely, eradicated the three pillars of his tyranny: the Guild, the spice monopoly and prescience. After his death, no one person or house, or even faction, could ever again hope to gather all those elements together to amass complete power over humanity.
@@tellurianapostle Yes, well, noone ever claimed that Leto wasn't a monster (he even physically became one...). It was far worse than genocide too, the number of deaths from the famine he caused alone was astronomical. What Leto had over the rest of the tyrants was presumably the strongest prescient ability seen before or since his reign. He was singularly focused on one goal - the perseverance of humanity as a whole. Was he right to take the golden path to the end? I'm sure to the billions who died, he wasn't. What do starving people care about if humanity will survive twenty thousand years in the future when they are dying of hunger right at this moment? To the reader, it's the age old question -- is it ever alright to sacrifice one life to save a thousand? (or in this case sac a few billions to save the whole?) That's for everyone that reads the books to decide.
@@Tol1as the great enemy is not even elaborated in any detail, the prescience is not perfect either. Could just as easily be a paranoid delusion, like that one guy from ww2 he mentions.
Only recently discovered your channel but so glad I did, have loved your videos on Dune, it's made me even more excited for the upcoming film but also to finally actually read the books of Hank Ferberts universe.
Excellent video as it is usual with Nerd Cookies, congratulations. Frank Herbert Dune story is complex (several written books) and the video gives a very good overview and relevant explanations allowing to understand better this complex universe. Many thanks.
Your great video made me think: if Norma Senva (daughter of the Reverend Mother)built the guild, did she force the mutation in the Navigators or did it happen naturally? If she forced it is she also responsible for Leto II having the understanding to create the Golden Path?
I've wondered this myself...was she able to foresee the golden path and actually manipulated the blood lines to bring about Paul -> Leto II -> etc??? Could she see the "fork in the road" - the path that lead to destruction or the path that lead to a new step??? She could after all manipulate space-time at will which I find enormously intriguing and I doubt she let any guildsman get to her level of development. Norma Senva is as much a character I'd like to see developed as GEoD has been.
Can you do a video on Norma. I think she was some human who became some kind of god figure in a different dimension. I believe the last Duncan was able to contact her but she was annoyed about being distracted from whatever it was that she was doing in another dimension and didn't seem too concerned whether humanity survived or not. I don't really know what kind of being she is and would like to hear more.
Didn't quite work out though, did it? All of Leto's countermeasures against prescience just caused evolutionary pressures that allowed humans like Miles Teg, and the Super Face Dancers calling themselves Daniel and Marty, to develop prescience that could see past no-fields as well as people who should have otherwise been invisible. This is implied to be how the Honored Matres were driven back into the old Imperium. Who only knows what happened to those humans left behind in the Scattering?
What will really blow your mind is he knew how everything had to happen. He knew Hui was a trap and he knew Siona would kill him. Talk about Terrible Purpose. Even Muad'Dib turned away from it.
The part where one of the Duncans ask Leto a question, then was crushed by him. It's been posed that the question had to do with RM Mohaim and Baron Harkonen being his grandparents... i wish we could ask Mr Herbert what that question was. That and the aspect that the Duncan gholas carried a piece of Leto's remaining sense of humanity for him. Time was Leto's gom jabar.
The God Emperor is one of the most interesting and original characters in science fiction. I admire the risks that Herbert took with the “anime time skip" as well. Was he the first to do such a thing? I’ve heard him credited with creating it. I’m not sure if that’s true though. Also, the scale and scope of the series after this point is really fascinating.
I believe he took it from the bible. Most of Christ’s young life is skipped picking up when he’s in his 30s I believe (possibly 35...so he may have choose the 3,500 year skip based on that)
PS- small detail - CHANI DIED FROM TAKING TOO MUCH SPICE MELANGE mix to COUNTER the birthcontrol from Irulan(she did not directly kill Chani), the Spice made Chani's body over fucund & sped up her birthrate metabolism draining her body and life energy to give the twins life.
Council of Ancestral Personalities = Pure Gold We can all do this today through our cultural inheritance of extensive written/spoken/archetypal intuitive knowledge to integrate legends/mythology/holy books. As for merging with sand trout and guiding humanity along the Golden Path, maybe not…yet
Great video about Leto II and his Golden Path. It's one of the most fascinating aspects of the entire Dune sage. I would love to see you do an analysis of Duncan Idaho, his many ghola copies, and his ultimate version in Heretics of Dune.
I think that leto simply realized that people repeat the same mistakes. The guilds rose to power because they wanted people to start developing thier minds after the machines where overthrown yet did that really change anything?! People replaced thier trust on machines on the so called heroes. And the main lesson is to rely on your own judgement...
I think, overall, Dune is highly influenced by buddhist themes and motifs. Reincarnation, pressence (a kind of enlightenment), morality and understanding of human fallibilities. GE squeezed humanity onto one path without their awareness and did it by brute force of beating it out of the gene pool and "karmic" attachments. Fascinating story.
I want to see a all out showdown betwixt dunes god emperor and 40k's god emperor. I think it would be a interesting fight except for the fact that dunes god emperor is invulnerable to all known weapons and attacks except..... A super soaker, that is one hell of a weakness.
Depends bc im not that well versed into Dune lore but if Dunes version of the god emperor isnt atleast powerful enough to shape reality at will then he's fucked
The most sympathetic characters, (In my opinion) in the series...Alia..overwhelmed by the ego memories she held, and Leto II, who sacrificed his humanity and did what his father couldn't bring himself to do.
Great vid. Iam not sure but i think you forgot to mension how he starved the universe of spice. A small suitcase full of spice was worth whole planets in the peak of this era.
I mentioned that he restricted spice somewhere in there I think along with keeping humanity mostly planet bound and restricting space travel. Tons of details that didn't make the cut though lol
@@NerdCookies His breading program extended the human life span to over 110 years with no spice. Monaeo was like 114 and walking around doing things and refused to touch spice. Leto said that with spice Moneao would have lived much longer. He also enhanced the human nervous system, made us faster and more reactive as well. 114 year old moneao easily best’s Duncan who himself could move with blurring speed.
I like how the 4th book showed the many contrasts between Leto II and the almost original, Duncan Idaho ghola. They are peppered all around the book, and the 2 are at a constant sparring match of philosophical viewpoints.
I worry that if we don't have Dennis we will have a new director and writers who are lazy and will just say "Eh, Leto II is crazy." And leave it at that.
My one hope from all this...getting a movie with the God Emporer
That would be DOPE 🤩
Can't wait to see some 40kfans who get converted to the dune fandom when they realise dune somewhat inspired 40k
You really want to see a human worm? Have yet to find a depiction of him on the web I can take serious.
Yeah I'm right there with you. I'd LOVE to see a movie about Leto II.
Need to recast James Mcavoy as Leto II
The whole arc and concept of the Golden Path and The God Emperor is such a crazy concept. It's my favorite thing about the entire series.
Actually, of the Jewish or Christian faith or not, if you read the Old Testament, that is exactly the thread throughout the history of Israel leading up to Jesus.
Every story in the Old Testament is basically a recounting of how god manipulated bloodlines to create a lineage that produced Jesus.
It even uses the metaphor of 'refining' them generation after generation and you can see certain people being prevented from forming a union to create children and other, unlikely people being brought together as, generation after generation, certain people are brought together until the birth of Jesus.
The idea being not that Jesus would guide humanity to be invisible to prescience, but rather, more in line with the ultimate goal of the Bene Geserit, the teachings of Jesus would refine some of the savagery out of humanity.
Of course, the Christian world, continue their savage momentum just as the non Christian world did, but they also improved and ultimately, the concept of men serving women (opening doors, offering seats, lifeboats on a sinking ship etc), human rights, giving up slavery, unions, international charity etc all came from Christian society.
Yes, so did some savage stuff, but savage stuff is the norm for all humans, loving your enemy is not.
@@NR-rv8rz Neat.
@@NR-rv8rz I like the summation. I took a similar interpretation from Herbert's intent though I focused more on the refinement of exploration and stewardship over dominance themes throughout the Bible. God's first decree to man was to populate, fill the earth and become stewards of a life within it. Once corruption was introduced into the human strain, man focused only on dominating other man starting with Cain and Abel, Tower of Babel, Ishmael and Isaac and so on. The nation of Isreal and the coming Messiah would become guides back to the pure purpose of man. And after an enforced peace of 1000 yrs be ready for the final test and next step of populating the universe-- finding balance between harmony of purpose and diversity of method that insures the survival of God's matter based lifeforms.
@@timnebilton9209 An elegant and inspiring take on things Timne.
Though, my faith tradition varies slightly on that we consider what we call 'The three blessings' to be not just 'procreate and take stewardship of creation, but rather that 'be fruitful means 'grow to indivisual, personal maturity' in other words (as Jesus said) 'be perfect'.
Adam and Eve were on track to be perfect before they fell.
So it is: Be perfect as an indivudual is the first part, marry and have children so create a family is the second part. Then, have dominion meaning to take charge in responsible stewardship of the Earth.
A tree that bears fruit is a sign of a tree that has grown to maturity/completion.
Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune was so good, especially after a terrible book like Dune Messiah (I’m sorry that book was sooo freakin boring)
Leto II: The Savior of Humanity by becoming it's most oppressive dictator.
classic Kissinger politics:)
Jesus said he'd got the wheel when I get the reigns🤠👽that's two planets you know of now
Now I can finally see where the Zero Requiem came from. 🙁
@@captainvalourous6668 lelouch might have sucu capabilities of a tyrant rule, but Leto II did it with precision and tactful planning
@@admiralkabubuto4978
You forgot another thing.
Leto died with the woman he loves on his side while Lelouch perished alone.
This synopsis makes it look as if Book 1 of the Dune series is a prequel like The Hobbit was to the Lord of the Rings trilogy. I really appreciate all the work Nerd Cookies is doing and for her expert use of the Voice!
Book one was just an eye opener of known past events.
Expert use of the voice 🤣 love it
Imagine how all this started..a 9 year old covered himself in larvae, made himself a biological suit, runs like the Flash, able to control sandworms at will then lasted 3,000 or so years to become half man/half worm who saved humanity by being an absolute asshole to humanity until humanity said 'screw this im going' and yeet themselves into the farthest reach of the universe.
Fair summary. I nominate replacing The Scattering with The Yeeting in canon.
Dude made the ultimate sacrifice
Yeah man....those were some AWESOME buttons man
But y tho
He was physically 9 years old, but he was 'Pre born', he had memories going back thousands of years from his ancestors.
Herbert has often said that the story of Paul was to warn people against a charismatic leader. Yet his message seems more confused with the God Emperor because it seems an example of how an absolute authoritarian dictator is actually necessary for human survival. It always felt quite strange to me as if Herbert’s message was that it would take something this terrible for civilization to make it.
But its humanity hating Leto, and their act of rejecting his authority, which ultimately saves the species.
Also another read on this is that Leto is like an anti-Paul. He’s not charismatic and is a literal monster.
But he is doing what is necessary and teaching the lesson of the danger of centralizing power, it becomes oppressive.
Also, him being a monster yet doing the good thing for everyone is a play against the idea of a charismatic and likeable person doing the worst for everyone, like his father did.
@@genmaicha.lapsang I like your take.
:)
@@genmaicha.lapsang did you really feel Paul did the worst for everyone? I didn’t feel that. He felt more like Oedipus- trapped by a horrible prophecy, unable to escape it. He tried to mitigate the violence if anything. But I like your theory as to the construction of Leto II.
He turned himself into a sandworm, funniest shit i've ever seen
Well, if that Sandworm is 500 Meters in Lenght and cannot be harmed by anything, also lives for Thousands of Years, has Psycic Powers unimagined by others...
@@WanderfalkeAT I mean he wasn't small but he wasn't 500m, that's 3k feet dude. Like 3 aircraft carriers.
sounds stupid and disgusting.....
I feel like you guys don't seem to understand how terrifying something of that size actually is and not only that but sandworms are incredibly hard to kill so I mean he might not be able to eat someone but he can just simply close its mouth and ram into you or simply command you to kill yourself while he's in it idk
@@VigilanteMike just pour water on it
The God Emperor was the "tough love" parent humanity needed. He basically set humanity up by their mutual resentment and fear of his tyranny and upon his death, they were compelled to leave to stagnation of culture and society to spread out. Growth through pain and learning through trauma was Leto II's lesson to humanity by way of The Famine Times and The Scattering.
The sacriifice of the God Emperor for humanity will not be forgotten🙏
I thought Trump was the god emperor of mankind
It’s funny because Herbert’s work rejected the messiah.
It’s just that no one can write a world without one.
@@RAINSMAN79 Don't you dare mentioning that name in the same sentence as the god emperor. He's not worth half of the Emperor's excrement.
@@rottenmeat5934 lol ironically he didn't reject the "messiah", since he was writing the quetzakkadurac to have been between the harkonen males and the atreides female. Lol
Only it didn't happen the way they wanted lol. Also Herbert seemed to forget that Paul atreides was a fremen first, imperialist second, who was actively at war with the imperial family because of their betrayal of his family to the harkonens, so why Paul wouldn't dismantle the empire after beating the sardukar and the emperor after controlling the only source of spice, has always baffled me. Lmao
Actually considering the people who wrote the book, it kinda makes sense. Lol
"We" didn't get the "messiah" so "we" reject this "one", and "I'll" write it out so that Paul abandons the fremen and becomes space emperor instead.
Lmao man kinda reminds me of another group of people bahahahaha
And then theirs the whole marrying the princess haughty pants when he already loved chani. And chani basically became his what?mistress? Considering his upbringing as an atreides, and the love he had for his mother, not to mention the qualities instilled in him from the fremen, ditching chani like that never made alot of sense... And yes I'm aware the the marriage of irulan and Paul was political...but what's the point of politics if you already won? If all irulan cared about was the pomp and pageantry, he could have commanded that she hold her wealth but the station was getting dismantled to go in a different direction. She could still have all the luxuries she was accustomed to... I mean he was the boss, and while yes her family would have conspired to reassert themselves since that's all they knew how to do, to the point they couldn't see anything else.
Especially if you control the galaxies only spice production and you've already beaten the empires sardukar.
It just seemed so, out of character for Paul. I mean he hadn't completely leapt off the "chosen one" bridge yet.
He had to impress upon humanity a racial memory that would instill in them a desire to never again fall under tyrannical domination. It took three millennia to instill that level of scarring. Three thousand years of oppressing people for their own good.
It's hard to know what to think of Leto. Pity is definitely one of them.
That’s very well put. Thank you
@@oclarke31 holy crap, a positive comment on the Internet. Respond appropriately.
Thank you. I typed it myself. :D
@@Anglomachian it was like reading my own thoughts that I couldn’t quite express about the book. Longtime fan of the first dune book (20 years) but only read the following books on this go around. Still not sure how I feel about them haha. Commented that reply coming back from the pub and I’m glad it brought you some joy, as your comment brought me. Much love
@@oclarke31 I on the other hand only read the first book a few years back after being properly introduced to it by someone at work. I’ve read all of the Herbert books but none of the others.
God Emperor is my second favorite after the first one. I love the character of Leto II.
I think God emperor doesn't gives an absolute answer because its end is to rather questioning than resolve anything.
Such a cool balance of power and vulnerability in the same character.
The explanation of the golden path here is giving me a better understanding of another god emperor
Wow... This is so sadly poignant and depressing, yet amazing at the same time. Paul and his son Leto seem to have been born destined for sadness and tragedy. It makes me wonder how Frank Herbert came up with all this. I don't know much about him, but he must have been a rather cynical fellow, well acquainted with sadness or depression. --Having said that, thank you Nerd Cookies for explaining this for those of us who weren't as familiar with the story.
"Heavy is the head that wears the crown."
It's a style of writing. Many plays during the 16th century utilized it, romeo and juliet being an example. It's done because it subverts hopes and expectations, and will be more memorable to those who read or watch it.
He used to do a lot of mushrooms hes inspiration for Dune came whilst under the influence
@@petercrozier4917That makes some sense lmao
Frank Herbert with the Golden Path and Isaac Asimovs Foundation are some of the best works of SciFi. Stories and plans that are not just within one lifetime but spans millenia to serve a greater goal.
Lucky for you Both are about to be released
It's a good time to be a sci-fi book nerd. 2 of the best series ever written
@@chasx7062 Have seen the trailer explaining that Foundation is really a perfect Apple commercial. Lucky is not the word I'd describe about either of these films, other than luckily, I can choose to avoid both.
@@Ni999 I guess you take out of it what you will LOL Orwell's 1984 is now a blueprint for totalitarianism heh
@@chasx7062 I took these quotes right out of the official teaser - _Foundation had a huge influence on _*_Star Wars_* and my favorite, _If ever there was a company that sought to connect people it's Apple and that's exactly what Asimov was trying to do._ Add in the major character change with Salvor, just like Liet, and you've got two new adventures that fundamentally don't understand the authors much less respect them and are more than happy to take timeless material and root it in today. You know, that same old Hollywood excuse, _Sci-fi doesn't do well, but I know how to fix it and isn't it exciting that no one ever thought of it before!_ No no, let's just follow the formula and be confused as to how it turns out so badly. So yeah, my takeaway is to get in early on avoiding whatever dumpster fires are coming next. Maybe they can pass through Paramount and then Chibnail for their next reboots.
There's some subtlety about your 1984 reference I'm missing. It was an indictment and a warning - so - do you mean that instead it's literally a blueprint now for building totalitarianism? I wouldn't be surprised nor say that you're wrong. Personally I feel like it's all a nightmare where Animal Farm met Fahrenheit 451 but you may be right.
I think that Hwi Noree's greatest regret was meeting the God-Emperor. Her empathic abilities made her aware of what was done to her and how she had been used to trap Leto II. How horrific it must have been to understand the pain a man felt by giving up his love of family, his ability to feel love, and the immense amount of time he bore that burden just to have others try to destroy it again and again.
Nunca la sentí arrepentida del todo, en su última conversación estaba tranquila, después de todo, para ella solo era un día normal... para él y Leto
This blew my mind. God Emperor sacrificing himself to save humanity by creating an uprising against himself which he had planned all along... IQ level 3500
*40k Fans:* So, is Leto II supposed to be based on the God-Emperor of Mankind?
*Dune Fans:* (rage intensifies)
Gene manipulation, an all-seeing God-Emperor, warp space navigators, armies of elite fanatical zealots, different guilds with monopolies on shit...am I talking about Dune or 40ks Imperium of Man?
@@-SayWhatAgainMF- Yes.
40k interstelar traveling is cooler tho via literal hell instead of "blink? fold?.navigator in dune more instresting tho drugged orange human fish
1965 novel V 1983 table top games. I leave it there.
I love listening to your voice. Its so sweet and gentle and soothing. Sometimes I drift off like a baby, not even knowing or caring what you are saying, just happy to be swattled in the sound of your voice. You are my Hwi Noree.
Thanks. One review of this novel stated simply, "What Herbert has drawn is the most complex and mystifying character in science fiction." I agree. I've read & reread the original 6 books in this series many, many times. I always get something new out them. For me, it's not only about the story or the world that Herbert created. It's about the philosophy, the analysis, and the mental connections one can make between things here in our reality. It will alter your consciousness. tavi.
Man, this series is a masterpiece in so many aspects.
Great summary of the Leto II era of rule :) Few note the difference between the memories, which are separated by gender, and the past egos, which are only limited by genetic lines. It should be remembered that Leto's rule was much smaller than his time of manipulating the houses of power, which goes on for thousands of more years through his journals. Great video as always :)
Yo, is that actually an emoji of _Sting as Feyd Rautha?!_
It's a special channel members only emoji
Your videos are always great. I hope the movies go this far in the story.
I have never read any sci if novels but after watching the movie I’ve become addicted to this frank herbert series. It is honestly fascinating. And these programs created by ultimate fans are just so great to get entrenched in the dune universe. Thanks for the content. Love it
The more I see of this the more I want to learn! Only read the first book and played the games so this channel and quinns just expands and blows my dune mind everyday!
As Siona said, the Golden path was true, but we can't just forgive nor forget the things that the emperor did. That's the question in Dune: does the end justify the means? Siona understand the end, but she rejected the means, and she was right to do so.
I've always wondered if Frank Herbert intended to skip ahead 3,500 years... or found he had written himself into a corner. The same thing kinda happens in Dune itself. The jump from Muad'ib to the Prophet is 2 years, and Herbert just sort of glossed over that Chani bore Paul his first son (at a tender young age), that he accrued a squad of death commandos, that he united the various sietches into a single force, and all in only 2 years. I think that Herbert just didn't have the pedestrian details in his head.
It took 3500 years because he needed arrakis to be transformed
the ending really felt rushed and ruined my desire to read the rest of the books after this video im no longer interested in the series
Clyde Doris you should give them a go mate. The end of book one is pretty poor and definitely rushed. I’ve just finished book four and loved them all. The writing and depth matures with each book
Asimov's Foundation Series
Herbert's Dune Series
& Simmons Hyporion Series
Are so far feeling and beyond. I love the vibes. SCIFI is great.
Dune and Hyperion took a lot of things from Foundation
The rise and transformation of Leto II had always fascinated me. As well as its effects on Leto II was unique for any character I previously experienced. I wish Frank Herbert had written more about the character. I would have loved to see more adventures of the God-Emperor between Children of Dune and God-Emperor of Dune. As well as any adventures of Siona after God-Emperor.
God Emperor of Dune was that just last sprinkle in the saga that solidified the idea that its probably the best series written, ever. Everything that happened in the 1st book, all the way to the beginning of time tied up neatly. To this day I still find myself in awe with everything that happened in the 4th book.
What stands out most to me was his manifestation. He must have had consciousness for hundreds if not thousands of years prior to being born as Leto, giving himself time to understand the bloodline requirements to generate a physical body with the right characteristics as well as time to subtly guide the efforts of the spice witches.
What's manifestation?
........
@@reckoner1913 it's found in a dictionary
Where was such a concept articulated in the series? Or is this one of those weird things Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson added to the series?
@@Jerubarbaruah neither, this is out of my own creativity
Captivating stuff. The fact that it took loads of psychedelics and a hybrid human-worm merging to finally bring mankind to peace is indicative of our current situation. Only a hail-marry miracle can save us from certain demise. We must unify. The spice must flow.
He didn't bring peace; he helped them genetically adapt to their reliance on technology and ensured that the entire human race could not be destroyed.
@@callithasmed8468 Ah, I see. So he brought stability. Thanks for the reply my friend.
the spice must flow
@@carson21211 Leto enforced tranquility. Those are his words, not mine. He did not bring peace or stability. He brought a scattering. Human kind fled to all corners of the universe to fulfill an instinct to not be oppressed. Leto created this instinct by enforcing tranquility (sometimes brutally).
Nobody said anything of peace ;)
Once again your fresh-from-oven pan of Nerd Cookies offer the smoky spice biscuits we all crave. I agree with other commenters that Leto The God Emperor is by far the most interesting character in Frank Herbert’s Duniverse. He blends the role of the classic Trickster with that of mankind’s ultimate predator. Although Herbert himself described his books as his exploration of the Messiah Mystique, when both Paul and Alia became aware of the sacrifice necessary they turned away from the Golden Path. By becoming the God Emperor Leto was the only Atreides strong enough to offer their own life to save the universe: a life of over 3,000 years of being a herdsman of ungrateful and rebellious humans. On a random note many readers have wondered why there are no “aliens” in the books but they fail to realize that in the Duniverse it is the humans that created aliens from themselves: Bene Gesserit, Guild Navigators, Mentats and, beyond most readers’ imagination, the God Emperor. Thank-you again for the nerd cookies. They go great with spice coffee!
Great comment! thank you 😊
Yes but he set all that in motion because there was a hostile alien force beyond the galaxy he was trying to protect humanity from
@@Feirelyth …and that “hostile alien force beyond the galaxy” was the Honored Matres from The Scattering fleeing the superior Face Dancers…
I'm brand new to Dune and this explanation helped me understand so much. Thank you!!
God Emperor and Chapter house are my 2 favorite books. They are deep… thoughtful and bring the religious tones of the dune series to the fore.
Nice job,👍
The Sacrifice Leto II made for humanity, living all those countless years, without the physical comfort of others, and only your genetic memory and his unbreakable duty to his species to keep him sane. Even though many despised and hated him, he bore their anger hate and loathing, to protect them, and to set them free, Humanity owes Leto II a debt that could never be re-payed.
God Emperor's do sacrifice everything for humanity (Warhammer 40K)
"When I set out to lead humanity along my Golden Path I promised a lesson their bones would remember. I know a profound pattern humans deny with words even while their actions affirm it."
Did anyone even read the book or do they just like roleplay 40k? He led interstellar genocide and has a line about how he led humanity to darkness, laughing when he says something that Hitler had said before him lmao.
The notion of a hybridized human / Sandworm is genius. I wonder what Frank Herbert's inspiration was?
H P Lovecraft had a few ideas when it came to hybrid humans.
I believe what was behind it was the symbolism of natural processes trump artificial ones. The Kwisatch Haderach wasn't ultimately born from forced marriages and breeding but from the love of a woman who refused to not bear children to the man she loved.
The saduarkar were criminals put in an artificial environment to be killers, where the Fremen were humans simply existing in a natural environment.
For most of the books the goal is to make Arrakis into a paradise world, but that would kill the sandworms, kill spice production, and in turn doom humanity as withdrawal from spice was death.
So Leto merging with the sand trout is in a way the merging of the machinations of man with the merging of the natural cycle. Leto doesn't see himself as a person anymore but a device that is needed to spur humanity onto something greater.
We all dream of becoming worm men deep down
Lots of psilocybin.
If you do a bunch, the idea that civilization came as a result of AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF "doing" mushrooms seems to be a little less crazy.
Mushrooms and acid
I feel this book was the culmination of Herbert’s message to all of us. In the first three Dune books he illustrated the folly of blindly following leaders. In the God Emperor of Dune he envisioned how humanity could truly evolve beyond it’s self-destructive tendencies and survive in perpetuity. The brilliance of Leto’s journey was that he used humanities curiosity to push them into the future and tempered their desire to be led, and through enforced peace at that. My favorite book of the series. Ultimately, I consider it to be the true ending of the saga, since he was never able to complete the next “chapter” of our potential future.
Really glad I came across this channel. Thank you for the great videos on scifi!
The abilities of the God Emperor make the Sith Emperors and such seem tame by comparison.
Nope.
Nah, the Sith have a lot more versatility and diversity in their abilities.
@@TheMelancholicWriter You've obviously never read God Emperor of Dune.
Leto is omniscient. He can see the past and future in it's entirety and stretch his consciousness across the entire known universe which he uses to lock trillions into his vision of the future. He possesses superhuman speed, strength and reflexes as far as being completely impervious to physical injury and is immortal. Even before his full ascendancy Leto was casually lifting starships off the ground and mind fucking thousands of people at a time.
There is nothing a Sith Lord or Jedi Master could do to Leto that would even phase him. His perfect clairvoyance would make it so he could anticipate every move they made years before they made it. They wouldn't be able to hurt him even if given the opportunity seeming as though Leto can tank battle-ship caliber weaponry. The only person that comes close would be EU Sidious but this would depend on the writing.
Leto stomps the entire Jedi and Sith orders simultaneously.
@@TheMelancholicWriter yo mama
@@mdc123-v2v I would love to see a fight with Leto vs the God Emperor of Mankind from Warhammer 40k.
The God Emperor from 40k pretty much has the same amount of power for the most part. Not to mention that a majority of his power is holding back chaos (chaos entities reside in the Warp and are by far the most powerful enemies of mankind) as well as using his immense psychic abilities to project the Astronomicon. Without the Astronomicon, human vessels would not be able to travel through the Warp just like how without spice, navigators would be useless.
And yes, before anyone says anything, the God Emperor from 40k was inspired by the God Emperor from Dune.
I believe the Golden Path was a necessary evil. People function best in Freedom, that was removed by The Tyrant purposefully. I would also like to humbly point out as I understand the book, Leto II was kidnapped and held hostage. His captors plowed him with spice in order to solicit a vision out of him. Leto II did not 'plan' on taking that much spice, it was forced upon him by his captors. I really enjoyed your presentation. Thank-you for taking the time.
Having briefly studied the concept of the left and right hand path - and also having read the Celestine Prophecy, a modern copy of the Kybalion and a few other obscure reads...this gave me goosebumps on another level and ive never read a page of the Dune series (which is going to change VERY soon)
Thats why the revelations say of an anti-christ uniting the world as One and everyone worshipping as the savior of mankind. But then Jesus comes in and takes the kingdom. But a science-fiction based story is more interesting than a real fucking thing that happens. Oh well magic and miracles are fAkE ..
Im a leave a comment to look for these books
@@med.ismailmouline7094 the Secret Teachings of All Ages by Manly P Hall is a must-have as well
I read the first book many years ago as we traveled out to visit my uncle who is a big Dune fan and had sent me the book. I had a hrd time plowing through the book. I only read the backs of the following books so these summary's are very helpful! Thank you.
I was wondering if you were going to expand this series beyond the Paul Era/ first book. Glad you did and enjoyed the synopsis as usual. But the way I remember it Irulan undertook the contraceptive program of her own volition out of pure spite and jealousy in hopes that Paul with whom she had fallen in love would turn to her to bear the royal heir instead of a barren Chani and that love of him was also the reason she protected the children after his disappearance and fully renounced her Bene Gesserit affiliation becoming completely a loyal member of House Atreides. And also I remember Paul not being able to see Ghani in his vision, hence him naming her Ghanima: the spoils of war, because she was the bonus that he had acquired alongside Leto. And finally the way I understood Siona's mutation was that it was an invisibility to prescience that worked as part of her or her descendants' being without having to have their own prescience activated and in use; and that it was more effective than the "mechanics" of an oracle canceling another oracle because Leto could perceive other oracles to an extent but even before her prescient awakening Siona would vanish from even his prescient sight. Then again it's been at least 10 years since I read any of these books so I could be remembering incorrectly...
Regardless though in my opinion Leto's arc really is the central theme of the saga and all of Dune's story really is his story (his heritage and circumstances, his reign and actions , and the consequences of his having been): all of "time" and all of "humanity" was focused and contained in him and his actions, and no greater sacrifice was or could ever have been made in that universe than the one he made and continued to make through the next-gen worms of the latter books. And the last time I did read any of these books I started with God-Emperor.
Can't wait to hear your thoughts on Darwi Odrade and Miles Teg! Keep em coming!
Your videos are such a treat. Solid lore, well-explained, and the accompanying visuals are curated perfectly. Thank you Nerd Cookies!
As time goes on in Dune you might think it as a Horror novel, except the scary house is a universe, a universe we wish we never knew, some might be brave enough to try and live in.
I found quite grotesque the transformation of Leto, gave me a lot of anxiety... so yes.
Also the description of his death, the sandstrout dismembering him and turning him into semi-conscious pieces. God, fucking horrible man.
Leto wasn't exactly god but he was more or less omniscient. And he could see far enough into the future to ensure humanity survives. The sacrifice he made was huge. How old was he when he made the choice his father could not?
I’ve seen so many of these videos that I think I could have actually spent my time reading the books
Seemed that part of his plan was to isolate humans on their respective planets for close to the time of our own recorded history on earth. This effectively pressed the reset button on the human race to start over in there spreading. But this time, instead of one planet of origin there were thoughts of them making loyalty to a centralized authority impossible and they sharted to race into the unknown.
One other thing, I’m not sure how GEoD would translate into a movie...assuming that Dune takes off as a movie franchise. In some ways it would be easier because the time frame of the book is actually quite narrow compared to the others. I think that it would work if directed as a horror film.
Basically they would have to focus on Duncan slowly giving into the madness and insanity of what is going on around him (until the end of the film). A lot of scenes in the book would work as horror, like the opening or the sianoq scene.
None of the Dune books are horror, not even the Brian Herbert ones.
"Fear is the mind-killer." - Dune. Sounds like you're trying turn Dune into Lovecraft. Why don't you just hope for a decent Lovecraft adaptation? Blending the two is just going to piss off 2 huge fandoms.
The sianoq scene really would work as a horror scene. It freaked me out when I read it
@@dancegregorydance6933 *NOW THIS IS WHERE THE FUN BEGINS!*
PLS ELABORATE WHAT HAPPENED MY KINDLY GOOD SIR~
@@alphalightning00frost67 Have you read God-Emperor of Dune?
@@dancegregorydance6933 i haven't read ANY of the books
Thanks so much for synopsis! There were so many things I missed and you cleared up with the video. It makes me appreciate the book so much more.
I just realized that there was a difference in Alia and the twins becoming preborn. Alia had her mothers guidance during the event but the twins didn't have their mothers help. Also Alia had the event happen at a certain time while there might not have been a specific event that lead to the twins being preborn. Could that also be a reason why the twins turned out differently?
As a teacher, I can relate to conspiring for the betterment of others. It is a strange path to walk. In the end, like with Leto II, some of your greatest accomplishments will not even be understood to have taken place. I think Leto's story is also a nod to a true moral path. As human beings, we are drawn to charismatic and attractive people automatically, and many of them take advantage of it. In fact, I think it is almost impossible not to take advantage of an excess of any sort of resource because you lose respect for it, an understanding of its value. Therefore, a truly moral person with power to do so should refrain from attracting, enticing, manipulating, persuading others because not only does it give you control over them, it also devalues your own ability to appreciate resources like love and devotion. What is left then? A person with power must go about setting others free, and, unfortunately, the easiest way to do that is to have those people hate and mistrust them and others like them and learn to rely on themselves. Zen masters practice a version of this. They will often abuse disciples in order to disabuse them of their misconceptions involving value. Show them, in a sense, that desire is pain.
Leto’s story is one self sacrifice, of seeking power not for ones self but for one’s people. To sacrifice yourself and your humanity to ensure to continuation of the species, knowing full well in the end you’ll be hated for it. It’s the ultimate form of self sacrifice.
Lol no its not. Its a story of ego. Humanity chooses its own destiny. One man saying “no, i know better than all of you” is the definition of an evil egomaniacal tyrant
Wow...having slow-read and currently 'audible reading' the entire series I don't remember jack squat about a certain gene that masks against prescience. I just remember the Atreides name being synonymous with badassery. I was in my late 20s when I powered through the primary series and the Herbert/Anderson prequels and sequels so you'd have thought I would have caught some of this stuff.
An excellent understanding of the novels is shown in these videos. Congratulations!
I would have loved to have know what Frank Herbert really planned for the final books.
"Prescient Man overdoses on worm poop in the desert, fuses with worm on a cellular level and gets super powers, turns into K-Mart Jabba the Hutt."
Who co-wrote this arc, cocaine?
Its not poop Its a chemical reaction that happens after a worms death. But it is nuts. that's why many like it.
Yeah, this is a wacko sci-fi plot line for sure, but calling the God Emperor (the prescient, omnipotent, nearly immortal ruler of the whole of the known universe) a "Kmart" version of a boss of the Giant Slug Mafia is way off the mark. Also, Leto begins his transformation in 'Children of Dune' 1976, a year before Jabba's first graphic appearance in the Star Wars comics in 1977, and is fully "fleshed out" in 'God Emperor of Dune' 1981, two years before Jabba's first on-screen appearance in 'Return of the Jedi' in 1983.
@@redthursday
Holy Crap!!!!
Did you really think he was being serious??!?!?
Geeez
Some of us take Starwars seriously.
@@Cbricklyne don't fuck with nerds dude
I think perhaps the only thing you missed, or at least failed to mention, was that Leto II did have a dominant personality above all of the others in his council of other memory in the form of Harum, who was a tyrant ruler and gave Leto that sense of absolute pitiless cruelty. Although he didn't fall into abomination, he did have to find a balance between Harum and all of the others.
Yeah a few details like that I decided not to get into as it was getting pretty lengthy 😆
A Harum like personality was necessary to carry out such a pitiless agenda.
Great summation
His reign is fascinating. And i have lits of questions about it , and in universe they are still debating it thosandof years afterwards. But he seemed to play the role of tyrant yet was ultimately a philanthropist ( lover of humanity) i imagine his power or the negative aspects were very gradual. The great houses didn't start falling until a couple of thousands years into his reign and a few survived. But his rule seems like a correction of his father's making it so something like this could never happen again. Its like Roman history julius ceaser and his son Augustus and the pax Romana ( roman peace) which only lasted 2 centuries. But both were worshipped as gods .
In effect, Leto seized and consolidated power in order to armor humanity against future absolute tyranny. Because of his actions and out of necessity, a new method of interstellar travel was developed (not dependent on navigators), as well as new methods for melange production. As well, with the future Atreides being invisible to prescience. Therefore he gradually, but completely, eradicated the three pillars of his tyranny: the Guild, the spice monopoly and prescience.
After his death, no one person or house, or even faction, could ever again hope to gather all those elements together to amass complete power over humanity.
@@Tol1as exactly
@@Tol1as guarding against tyranny by doing genocide, sounds familiar to someone from WW2 that Leto mentions in the book...
@@tellurianapostle Yes, well, noone ever claimed that Leto wasn't a monster (he even physically became one...).
It was far worse than genocide too, the number of deaths from the famine he caused alone was astronomical.
What Leto had over the rest of the tyrants was presumably the strongest prescient ability seen before or since his reign. He was singularly focused on one goal - the perseverance of humanity as a whole.
Was he right to take the golden path to the end?
I'm sure to the billions who died, he wasn't. What do starving people care about if humanity will survive twenty thousand years in the future when they are dying of hunger right at this moment?
To the reader, it's the age old question -- is it ever alright to sacrifice one life to save a thousand? (or in this case sac a few billions to save the whole?)
That's for everyone that reads the books to decide.
@@Tol1as the great enemy is not even elaborated in any detail, the prescience is not perfect either. Could just as easily be a paranoid delusion, like that one guy from ww2 he mentions.
Only recently discovered your channel but so glad I did, have loved your videos on Dune, it's made me even more excited for the upcoming film but also to finally actually read the books of Hank Ferberts universe.
Excellent video as it is usual with Nerd Cookies, congratulations. Frank Herbert Dune story is complex (several written books) and the video gives a very good overview and relevant explanations allowing to understand better this complex universe. Many thanks.
Your great video made me think: if Norma Senva (daughter of the Reverend Mother)built the guild, did she force the mutation in the Navigators or did it happen naturally? If she forced it is she also responsible for Leto II having the understanding to create the Golden Path?
I've wondered this myself...was she able to foresee the golden path and actually manipulated the blood lines to bring about Paul -> Leto II -> etc??? Could she see the "fork in the road" - the path that lead to destruction or the path that lead to a new step??? She could after all manipulate space-time at will which I find enormously intriguing and I doubt she let any guildsman get to her level of development. Norma Senva is as much a character I'd like to see developed as GEoD has been.
Your work is Fabulous !!!
It is marvelous to listen to someone who gets the work to such depth.
Another excellent and informative video. Thank you for all the time and effort that you devote to each of these videos.
Could the scattering actually be that galaxy a long time ago far far away.
🤯
No, but yes to me.
all the yes
Can you do a video on Norma.
I think she was some human who became some kind of god figure in a different dimension.
I believe the last Duncan was able to contact her but she was annoyed about being distracted from whatever it was that she was doing in another dimension and didn't seem too concerned whether humanity survived or not.
I don't really know what kind of being she is and would like to hear more.
I'd love to see the reemergence of the thinking machines, which I would think be immune to prescience via shear calculation power.
Your videos are amazing and your voice so calm and soothing
watching all these short clips made me want to buy the books so much haha
Great vid. Please do Duncan as well!
Nice touch using the sci fi channel series' Leto
That Children of Dune miniseries is super underrated!
@@NerdCookies I personally wad very much up for them going all the way, god emperor; heretics and all with that cast and crew. It felt right imo
Didn't quite work out though, did it? All of Leto's countermeasures against prescience just caused evolutionary pressures that allowed humans like Miles Teg, and the Super Face Dancers calling themselves Daniel and Marty, to develop prescience that could see past no-fields as well as people who should have otherwise been invisible. This is implied to be how the Honored Matres were driven back into the old Imperium. Who only knows what happened to those humans left behind in the Scattering?
Nice touch for using Marion - Wanderland as the background music.
I’ve never read the books, but this sounds off the wall bonkers!
He should have stayed with the super-suit evolution, never go full worm!
He had little choice
You never go full worm
What will really blow your mind is he knew how everything had to happen. He knew Hui was a trap and he knew Siona would kill him. Talk about Terrible Purpose. Even Muad'Dib turned away from it.
Tbf, he lived 3500 years. I think anyone would be happy to end it at that point.
The part where one of the Duncans ask Leto a question, then was crushed by him. It's been posed that the question had to do with RM Mohaim and Baron Harkonen being his grandparents... i wish we could ask Mr Herbert what that question was. That and the aspect that the Duncan gholas carried a piece of Leto's remaining sense of humanity for him. Time was Leto's gom jabar.
God emperor is probably my favorite in the series
Same!
Same, it makes me dislike Duncan though I'll admit
Or I guess I should say, this version of Duncan.
@@zhitchcresttail3387 He was kinda bad, wasn't he? "Hwi!" was a lot of his dialog. XD
@@zhitchcresttail3387duncan was totally deconstructed in GEoD. He was astronomically down bad
The God Emperor is one of the most interesting and original characters in science fiction.
I admire the risks that Herbert took with the “anime time skip" as well. Was he the first to do such a thing? I’ve heard him credited with creating it. I’m not sure if that’s true though.
Also, the scale and scope of the series after this point is really fascinating.
Asimov's Foundation series is full of massive time skips, not sure if that came first
Lot of ancient literature did it. Mahabharata does it iirc
The Bible 🤣 thats a work of fiction
I believe he took it from the bible. Most of Christ’s young life is skipped picking up when he’s in his 30s I believe (possibly 35...so he may have choose the 3,500 year skip based on that)
Beowulf has a time skip, and that story precedes Dune by thousands of years lol
I’m addicted to your videos! Thank you so much for all the info and the great quality content! ❤️
PS- small detail - CHANI DIED FROM TAKING TOO MUCH SPICE MELANGE mix to COUNTER the birthcontrol from Irulan(she did not directly kill Chani), the Spice made Chani's body over fucund & sped up her birthrate metabolism draining her body and life energy to give the twins life.
Council of Ancestral Personalities = Pure Gold
We can all do this today through our cultural inheritance of extensive written/spoken/archetypal intuitive knowledge to integrate legends/mythology/holy books. As for merging with sand trout and guiding humanity along the Golden Path, maybe not…yet
Great video about Leto II and his Golden Path. It's one of the most fascinating aspects of the entire Dune sage. I would love to see you do an analysis of Duncan Idaho, his many ghola copies, and his ultimate version in Heretics of Dune.
Great synopsis of The God Emperor Leto II. I couldn't add a thing.
A few keynotes left out so read the books.
I think that leto simply realized that people repeat the same mistakes. The guilds rose to power because they wanted people to start developing thier minds after the machines where overthrown yet did that really change anything?! People replaced thier trust on machines on the so called heroes. And the main lesson is to rely on your own judgement...
Preach!
These Dune videos are always interesting. Keep up the great work!
I think, overall, Dune is highly influenced by buddhist themes and motifs. Reincarnation, pressence (a kind of enlightenment), morality and understanding of human fallibilities. GE squeezed humanity onto one path without their awareness and did it by brute force of beating it out of the gene pool and "karmic" attachments. Fascinating story.
More Hindusim but yeah I get your point
I want to see a all out showdown betwixt dunes god emperor and 40k's god emperor. I think it would be a interesting fight except for the fact that dunes god emperor is invulnerable to all known weapons and attacks except..... A super soaker, that is one hell of a weakness.
Depends bc im not that well versed into Dune lore but if Dunes version of the god emperor isnt atleast powerful enough to shape reality at will then he's fucked
Crazy story, but totally awesome and kinda beautiful at the end..
The most sympathetic characters, (In my opinion) in the series...Alia..overwhelmed by the ego memories she held, and Leto II, who sacrificed his humanity and did what his father couldn't bring himself to do.
In some ways, I wish the god emperor story can be told as flashbacks.
Great vid. Iam not sure but i think you forgot to mension how he starved the universe of spice. A small suitcase full of spice was worth whole planets in the peak of this era.
I mentioned that he restricted spice somewhere in there I think along with keeping humanity mostly planet bound and restricting space travel. Tons of details that didn't make the cut though lol
@@NerdCookies
His breading program extended the human life span to over 110 years with no spice. Monaeo was like 114 and walking around doing things and refused to touch spice.
Leto said that with spice Moneao would have lived much longer.
He also enhanced the human nervous system, made us faster and more reactive as well. 114 year old moneao easily best’s Duncan who himself could move with blurring speed.
@@NerdCookies It’s a really packed book for sure.
this channel is so AEESTRUCK! I found it a while ago but just recently blitz watched a bunch of these videos
You sure do a great job with all these dune videos
Thank you!
I like how the 4th book showed the many contrasts between Leto II and the almost original, Duncan Idaho ghola. They are peppered all around the book, and the 2 are at a constant sparring match of philosophical viewpoints.
Love your work! Keep it up!
Thank you!
I think that the follo-on novels described a dystopia of horrific proportions. Maranatha!
Sweet thanks elaine and nick. Im listening to the audiobook of it for the fourth or fifth time .
I worry that if we don't have Dennis we will have a new director and writers who are lazy and will just say "Eh, Leto II is crazy." And leave it at that.