Awesome video!! I only have experience with 480v 220v 110v 24vdc and input sensors. So this was really informative and great to see how the smaller components work on a robot. Thanks!
Great video Wes and overall I love your channel. Your explanations and practical fault finding are great to see. Thanks for taking the time to share and teach. Cheers Bert
A lot of the older switching power supplies do run in the higher audio frequency ranges. That is why you can hear the oscillator running. It can be a bit unsettling when you power up some older equipment because that sound can be really loud. Your almost about to brace yourself for the BOOM. But as long as the frequency is steady, it is OK. If it starts to get really unstable sounding though, there could be problems.
Love your channel Wes. Knowledge is power and you my friend have plenty. Inspires me to try and tackle understanding some of these things like electronics more. Could save scraping something that otherwise could be fixed.
Mr. Carlsons Lab is good for the first couple of videos. After that you need a judicious application of the FF button as he tends to take an inordinate amour of time telling you about how he is going to set up and frame the next shot, then after switching to that shot, he will again explain how he st it up and on and on. Smart as a whip, but way too Canadian for my taste.
Power supply: Without the details on the control connections it's not entirely clear, but I believe you're correct about it being a regenerative supply. L1/L2/L3 feed into the SCRs, which are switched to operate in forward mode so long as the DC bus voltage is less than the line-line voltage. If the voltage on the DC bus exceeds the line-line voltage, the SCRs are switched to operate in reverse mode (by phase shifting gate timing), and the transistors are turned on to shunt power from the DC bus back to the 3ph lines until the SCRs stop conducting as the DC bus voltage drops below the forward line voltage. IO: The 74LS151 are 8x1 multiplexers and the 8155P is a 2kbit static ram with timer/counter, so presumably the IO multiplexing is accomplished by strobing the address lines and reading/writing 8 bits per address, with the output fetched from and input stored to the static ram each cycle. The 7407s are in fact buffers to stabilize signals. I can't tell, but the IC labeled "G" looks like it may have let the magic smoke out? A quick check is to probe the power and ground pins on each chip for shorts/open, then put a 'scope across the power pins with the DUT powered if possible and check the ripple - this eliminates most of the easy stuff :)
Wow. That's very helpful. The power it puts back into the grid must be really nasty. It has a line reactor in front of the power supply. I don't see a chip labeled "G'. I must be blind. The manual for the control says that the inputs work by pulling the row to ground and detecting that ground through the switch to the corresponding column. To me that means the control can read multiple inputs from the same row or the same column, but it cannot read multiple inputs across multiple columns and rows. So, I think that means if you switched row 1, column 1 and row 2, column 2, the control would see them both. But, if you also switched row 1, column 2 and row 2 column 1, the control would not see all of the inputs because the row and column are duplicated. That should not really cause an issue because switches that might be active at the same time like axis jog switches are on the same row. That should also mean that if the control is missing a single input, it should be missing a whole row or a whole column. I should be able to test that on the working machine.
I suspect the reverse-feed transistors are PWMed or otherwise modulated to minimize the phase noise going back to the grid, it would be interesting to see the waveforms of both the power and logic simultaneously. Time domain multiplexing using orthogonal strobe lines allows you to resolve individual points on the grid, think playing battleship by exhaustive scanning :)
Sorry I am late to the party but my $0.02 Power Supply: I think those two IGBTs are actually part of the power supplies protection circuit, I see in the video that there is a current transformer inline with the DC bus and I would bet that the supply monitors the output current on the DC bus and uses those IGBTs to cut off the output during fault conditions. Sorry but I don't think anything neat like pushing current back to the grid is going on here. A circuit that was capable of this would need 6 igbts and a large inductor. I am not certain but when the module is apart I count 8 modules on the heat sink, 4 thrysisters, a smaller unknown two terminal device, two IGBTs and a bleed down resistor up top. Only three thrysisters are needed for rectification and on the fourth one only half is used as there is only one gate wire. Seems like its wired up to short out the DC bus, this would be a bad idea until the high voltage is bled down. Mystery as to where excess braking energy is going unless each of the drives includes the braking resistor, not something I have seen before. IO: Mystery IC @ th-cam.com/video/VlL52RaM81g/w-d-xo.html is a TI SN7407 Hex Buffer with open collector outputs. A signal runs to the input like a normal buffer but the output is only capable of sinking to ground, it can not drive out voltage. These are great as you can perform neat tricks like a shift in voltage level on your signal or NOR'ing multiple signals together. I believe in this case these guys are actually part of the matrix scanning for the input. To scan a matrix you need to apply a voltage to a column one at a time, and read the rows to see if that voltage shows up right? The column you lit and the row where you find your voltage back give you (x,y) for your input. I believe this control lights the rows to 24V through a current limiting resistor and the 7404s are used to pull down each of the 14 rows except the one its scanning. A snapshot of the columns is made via the 8 opto couplers. The convoluted system of pull up resistors and open collector buffers allows for translation between the 5V logic system on the board and the 24V system the inputs use. The 5188 chip is kind of neat as it rolls three chips into one, sram, timer, and IO. I think in this case the only part involved is the IO ports and they read the state of the 8 opto couplers during each scan of the matrix. The fact that the ic has sram and timer is cool but not likely related to the fault (unless the i/o is stored in the sram and there is a bad cell). The IC is not capable of reading I/O and writing to sram at the same time, the CPU has to do task then the other. Swapping the boards cleared the issue so the problem is the board but it seems strange to be limited to just that one I/O bit. I would expect there to be other stuck bits since this is a scanned matrix where the same lines are reused to scan multiple rows. A wiring diagram of the feed hold button would be useful to test this theory as inputs on the same row/column as feed hold should also not work. If it does check out that inputs on the same row/column as feed hold do work correctly then you have to assume that all those components up to and including the 5188 are working since a scanning matrix shares those parts for other inputs. Great videos, working on machine tools of this era is something I love doing. The electronics are moden enough to be easy to work on and yet can do some complex tasks.
Ha! Damn! i had this EXACT same problem pretty much the exact same time last year! What a PITA getting it fixed! If this machine is running off a phase converter you need a delta to wye isolation transformer to stop these from blowing up when the motor regen's
You were discussing how it could get 112-ish output signals into 22 wires. Sounds like a mulitplexer is involved. A multiplexer will have, say, 14 wires devoted to signals plus (speculating, here) a number of wires devoted to a mux counter. In this case it has to count to eight, so you’d need four lines to represent eight values in ones and zeros. Not sure what the remaining four wires do.
Any recommendations on where to start on learning this stuff. I understand basic electrical(I.e. wiring motors, vfds, house electrical) but diagnosing machine tool components is where my knowledge is lacking. Any general advance would be appreciated.
As drawn, the diodes in this circuit at 22:35 short out the 3-phase power. Either some of these are inverted, there is some resistance that is not shown, or the 3-phase supply has been stepped down to about 2 VAC. Each of these possibilities has some uses, but I don't want to write a book on the subject.
Hi , my name is sergio from Italy , you change only the IGBT?? , in my lathe fanuc after a big storm in the night when i was to turn on the lathe the general power go down , so i'm chek like you and in effect the IGBT ( 3 ) was with a short circuit , when you assembly again , check another thinks , if yes can you tel me pleased .kind regards
Hi, im loking some solution for proplem on fanuc A06B-6110-H037. This cnc machine acellerate without any proplems, after decelaration this dc volt side goes to over voltage, like over 430volt and machine stops. This deceleration greates some power but it wont go to net. Error code is sp 9011 ,Thanks if you have any answers.
imo, Fanuc is original from Japan where is 3x200v . In Europe is 3x~400 , and Fanuc sells machines with an additional transformer. I'm from Europe and i have fanuc robocut. All magnetic contactors in machine is for 200V/50Hz.
So you're telling me that I couldn't check this with just a meter. That that short wouldn't show up. Are you sure? Should not be done before you go through all that time setting up your little circuit
Ya'll said you were lucky with only that tiny transistor. The patient was the lucky one. Ya'll were lucky everything on the board wasn't fried though so I see what youse mean.
Awesome video!! I only have experience with 480v 220v 110v 24vdc and input sensors. So this was really informative and great to see how the smaller components work on a robot. Thanks!
Great video Wes and overall I love your channel. Your explanations and practical fault finding are great to see. Thanks for taking the time to share and teach.
Cheers
Bert
Glad you like it.
I got here because of diesel trucks! Glad i started your channel at the beginning. Amazing work Wes.
A lot of the older switching power supplies do run in the higher audio frequency ranges. That is why you can hear the oscillator running. It can be a bit unsettling when you power up some older equipment because that sound can be really loud. Your almost about to brace yourself for the BOOM. But as long as the frequency is steady, it is OK. If it starts to get really unstable sounding though, there could be problems.
great work man! you really dabble in alot of different things!! very sharp
Very informative. You helped me greatly
Great tutorial video with informative . Thanks for sharing
Love your channel Wes. Knowledge is power and you my friend have plenty. Inspires me to try and tackle understanding some of these things like electronics more. Could save scraping something that otherwise could be fixed.
If man made it, man can fix it...
Mr Carolson lab is awesome!!
Welcome back Wes!
Maaaan!!!! I'm trying to repair my hitachi like Wes does and no luck
u r awesome bro.keep it up. please upload more videos on fanuc servo amplifiers alarm codes and spindle drive alarm codes. 👍🏻
Mr. Carlsons Lab is good for the first couple of videos. After that you need a judicious application of the FF button as he tends to take an inordinate amour of time telling you about how he is going to set up and frame the next shot, then after switching to that shot, he will again explain how he st it up and on and on. Smart as a whip, but way too Canadian for my taste.
Excellent, nice video
Good Job ~
Mr. Carlson's Lab is amazing.... :-)
He's kind of gone totally into tube radio stuff now,which I don't find interesting, but the guy knows his stuff!
Power supply:
Without the details on the control connections it's not entirely clear, but I believe you're correct about it being a regenerative supply.
L1/L2/L3 feed into the SCRs, which are switched to operate in forward mode so long as the DC bus voltage is less than the line-line voltage. If the voltage on the DC bus exceeds the line-line voltage, the SCRs are switched to operate in reverse mode (by phase shifting gate timing), and the transistors are turned on to shunt power from the DC bus back to the 3ph lines until the SCRs stop conducting as the DC bus voltage drops below the forward line voltage.
IO:
The 74LS151 are 8x1 multiplexers and the 8155P is a 2kbit static ram with timer/counter, so presumably the IO multiplexing is accomplished by strobing the address lines and reading/writing 8 bits per address, with the output fetched from and input stored to the static ram each cycle. The 7407s are in fact buffers to stabilize signals. I can't tell, but the IC labeled "G" looks like it may have let the magic smoke out? A quick check is to probe the power and ground pins on each chip for shorts/open, then put a 'scope across the power pins with the DUT powered if possible and check the ripple - this eliminates most of the easy stuff :)
Wow. That's very helpful. The power it puts back into the grid must be really nasty. It has a line reactor in front of the power supply.
I don't see a chip labeled "G'. I must be blind. The manual for the control says that the inputs work by pulling the row to ground and detecting that ground through the switch to the corresponding column. To me that means the control can read multiple inputs from the same row or the same column, but it cannot read multiple inputs across multiple columns and rows. So, I think that means if you switched row 1, column 1 and row 2, column 2, the control would see them both. But, if you also switched row 1, column 2 and row 2 column 1, the control would not see all of the inputs because the row and column are duplicated. That should not really cause an issue because switches that might be active at the same time like axis jog switches are on the same row.
That should also mean that if the control is missing a single input, it should be missing a whole row or a whole column. I should be able to test that on the working machine.
OK, I do see the IC labeled G. That's just some foam insulation stuck to the IC.
I suspect the reverse-feed transistors are PWMed or otherwise modulated to minimize the phase noise going back to the grid, it would be interesting to see the waveforms of both the power and logic simultaneously.
Time domain multiplexing using orthogonal strobe lines allows you to resolve individual points on the grid, think playing battleship by exhaustive scanning :)
Sorry I am late to the party but my $0.02
Power Supply:
I think those two IGBTs are actually part of the power supplies protection circuit, I see in the video that there is a current transformer inline with the DC bus and I would bet that the supply monitors the output current on the DC bus and uses those IGBTs to cut off the output during fault conditions. Sorry but I don't think anything neat like pushing current back to the grid is going on here. A circuit that was capable of this would need 6 igbts and a large inductor.
I am not certain but when the module is apart I count 8 modules on the heat sink, 4 thrysisters, a smaller unknown two terminal device, two IGBTs and a bleed down resistor up top. Only three thrysisters are needed for rectification and on the fourth one only half is used as there is only one gate wire. Seems like its wired up to short out the DC bus, this would be a bad idea until the high voltage is bled down. Mystery as to where excess braking energy is going unless each of the drives includes the braking resistor, not something I have seen before.
IO:
Mystery IC @ th-cam.com/video/VlL52RaM81g/w-d-xo.html is a TI SN7407 Hex Buffer with open collector outputs. A signal runs to the input like a normal buffer but the output is only capable of sinking to ground, it can not drive out voltage. These are great as you can perform neat tricks like a shift in voltage level on your signal or NOR'ing multiple signals together.
I believe in this case these guys are actually part of the matrix scanning for the input. To scan a matrix you need to apply a voltage to a column one at a time, and read the rows to see if that voltage shows up right? The column you lit and the row where you find your voltage back give you (x,y) for your input. I believe this control lights the rows to 24V through a current limiting resistor and the 7404s are used to pull down each of the 14 rows except the one its scanning. A snapshot of the columns is made via the 8 opto couplers. The convoluted system of pull up resistors and open collector buffers allows for translation between the 5V logic system on the board and the 24V system the inputs use.
The 5188 chip is kind of neat as it rolls three chips into one, sram, timer, and IO. I think in this case the only part involved is the IO ports and they read the state of the 8 opto couplers during each scan of the matrix. The fact that the ic has sram and timer is cool but not likely related to the fault (unless the i/o is stored in the sram and there is a bad cell). The IC is not capable of reading I/O and writing to sram at the same time, the CPU has to do task then the other.
Swapping the boards cleared the issue so the problem is the board but it seems strange to be limited to just that one I/O bit. I would expect there to be other stuck bits since this is a scanned matrix where the same lines are reused to scan multiple rows. A wiring diagram of the feed hold button would be useful to test this theory as inputs on the same row/column as feed hold should also not work. If it does check out that inputs on the same row/column as feed hold do work correctly then you have to assume that all those components up to and including the 5188 are working since a scanning matrix shares those parts for other inputs.
Great videos, working on machine tools of this era is something I love doing. The electronics are moden enough to be easy to work on and yet can do some complex tasks.
Hello sir thank u ! very good information give u
Well done Wes!
ATB, Robin
Thank you sir!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_(metallurgy)
Ha! Damn! i had this EXACT same problem pretty much the exact same time last year! What a PITA getting it fixed! If this machine is running off a phase converter you need a delta to wye isolation transformer to stop these from blowing up when the motor regen's
I Love your channel.
Thanks.
Glad to see an upload from you.
I've been unexpectedly busy. Maybe things will resume a normal pace soon.
Bu$y can be a good thing. :)
Indeed. The middle of the summer was kind of slow, so I am trying to make hay while the sun shines.
Good work
Thumbs up 👍 learning is on going!
your knowledge is unbelievable......so impressed......Can i ask what your education is?
great thank you!
You were discussing how it could get 112-ish output signals into 22 wires. Sounds like a mulitplexer is involved. A multiplexer will have, say, 14 wires devoted to signals plus (speculating, here) a number of wires devoted to a mux counter. In this case it has to count to eight, so you’d need four lines to represent eight values in ones and zeros. Not sure what the remaining four wires do.
wow thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Good information for us
Thanks
Thank you
You're amazingly intelligent.
...ah..! Mr. Carlson....he's equally at home with Tubes or transistors...!
The guy knows electronics. I've never messed with tubes, but I like his videos.
Any recommendations on where to start on learning this stuff. I understand basic electrical(I.e. wiring motors, vfds, house electrical) but diagnosing machine tool components is where my knowledge is lacking. Any general advance would be appreciated.
SUPER RECTIFICATION T Q SIR!
As drawn, the diodes in this circuit at 22:35 short out the 3-phase power. Either some of these are inverted, there is some resistance that is not shown, or the 3-phase supply has been stepped down to about 2 VAC. Each of these possibilities has some uses, but I don't want to write a book on the subject.
Looks like the "flyback" diode is drawn backwards.
Nice!!
SN7407 6-ch, 4.75-V to 5.25-V bipolar buffers with open-collector outputs
Multiplexed matrix, like a computer keyboard.
Hi , my name is sergio from Italy , you change only the IGBT?? , in my lathe fanuc after a big storm in the night when i was to turn on the lathe the general power go down , so i'm chek like you and in effect the IGBT ( 3 ) was with a short circuit , when you assembly again , check another thinks , if yes can you tel me pleased .kind regards
SUPER SIR T Q!
Top 👋👍
Hi, im loking some solution for proplem on fanuc A06B-6110-H037. This cnc machine acellerate without any proplems, after decelaration this dc volt side goes to over voltage, like over 430volt and machine stops. This deceleration greates some power but it wont go to net. Error code is sp 9011 ,Thanks if you have any answers.
Please explain with diagram for testing procedure
If sanrex sda100aa80 is open or damaged the power module will works or not please replay. FANUC A06b-6110-h011 getting fan alarm
can u tell me plzz about alarm 07 of fanuc alpha drive a06b 6087 h115
need help plz
That's voodoo shit there
hi I'm sergio again I have this MBM300HSGH and I think don't working becaise the lamp don't keep on when apply 9v , one when apply 9v keep on anyway
sir I'm facing problem when we run spindle motor above 1800rpm dc over volt alarm generated so what is th problem exact 7 number show in drive
I need your help, Please! I have FAnuc driver A06B-6096-H108, Can you help me?
Why fanuc amplifier use 220 v 3 phase instead of 415 v 3phase ?
Any advantages??
imo, Fanuc is original from Japan where is 3x200v . In Europe is 3x~400 , and Fanuc sells machines with an additional transformer. I'm from Europe and i have fanuc robocut. All magnetic contactors in machine is for 200V/50Hz.
Can someone help me about ,ps hard ware error. fanuc module
those smaller chips are decade counters. So just counters.
So you're telling me that I couldn't check this with just a meter. That that short wouldn't show up. Are you sure? Should not be done before you go through all that time setting up your little circuit
Did you go to school to learn this trait?
Ya'll said you were lucky with only that tiny transistor. The patient was the lucky one. Ya'll were lucky everything on the board wasn't fried though so I see what youse mean.
'.... TIN WHISKERS IS A REAL THING...."!!!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whisker_(metallurgy)
Who ohms law. 🥺
First
Last
I have watched this entire video and have no idea what in thunder u r babbling aboot.