Benedict had an able assistant who did most of the translating: Robert Seido Hashima, to whom she gives much credit, and obviously viewed warmly. She didn't need to learn Japanese. Her book needs to be examined in the context of the time, not dissected decades later. There are many weaknesses, which are forgivable given the constraints. However, it's one of the most popular foreign books available in Japan, and has been since the late 1940s. It would be difficult to find a foreign book which has been as influential in another country, barring religious texts. Yes, she compares American and Japanese cultures, but that was the point of the exercise. Her intended audience was the American military, which the reports for the American Office of War Information (OWI) attempted to understand the actions and motivations of kamikaze flyers and prisoners-of-war (or rather, the actions Japanese servicemen took NOT to become a PoW). Many of those reports were not entirely Benedict's own work- the theses on potty training and masturbation most likely came from British anthropologist Geoffrey Gorer whom Benedict replaced at OWI. Gorer leaned more to the psychological aspects of anthropology, and while this may have rubbed off on Benedict somewhat, she was primarily a folklorist. What Benedict was not is one of her weaknesses, and that's a historian. She failed to take into account that the attitudes she was describing (or getting wrong, as the case may be) were not set in stone, and indeed she was ascribing attitudes of the militarist elites to common people. The Japanese themselves must see something in Chrysanthemum and the Sword for it to be a perennial top seller in that country. It's worth noting also that the American policy to keep the Emperor and NOT charge him with war crimes was based heavily on Benedict's work and recommendations. Japan might well be a very different place today had that not happened.
Very helpful. I feel this book is a good historical read, more for seeing the American mindset at the time than for gleaning anything about the Japanese people of Imperial Japan.
I lived in Japan and studied their language and culture for 5 years. When I left I was even more confused about their culture and why they behave the way they do. Just when I thought I was gaining some sort of general understanding I would uncover and entirely new layer below the surface. When I spoke to my Japanese colleagues about these new doors I've opened many of them were not even aware. I read the book while living in Japan and I recall at the time it explained a lot. I was not in a position to be able to question everything she wrote but much of it resonated. My position is that even if you were Japanese, grew up there, studied the culture there, you will still not be able to capture the essence of Japanese culture. Lets not forget they were isolated from the rest of the world for 300 years so during that time their culture evolved and developed entirely on its own. Yes, they are a "modern western society" but in many respects from my personal experience, they are nothing like us. I believe that people from anglo western societies have more in common with other countries like the Chinese than the Chinese do with the Japanese. They are solely unique in every way (again, generalising and from my personal experience). So, any attempt to interpret them, their morals, their sense of right from wrong, will be a punt at best. I certainly don't think you can apply your basic moral framework and lay it on top of the Japanese and presume they are the same. Their adherence to authority while I lived there was akin to that of a sociopath from my eyes, sacrificing everything, family and even their lives through overwork (Karoshi). However, I would then experience a level of kindness and generosity unlike anything I have experienced. But like every society they evolve and change and its a mixed bag. I enjoyed the book. I most definitely appreciated and respect the effort and output from Benedict considering her circumstances. Worth the read but its just one summation. There are many and none of them are conclusive.
I've been studying Japanese for 20 years, I've lived here for 12, and I'm a medical interpreter who helps English-speaking patients and Japanese medical staff bridge all kinds of linguistic and cultural divides. It's understandable that you would have trouble grasping many aspects of Japanese society after only five years' study but that does not mean that the Japanese are unknowable, nor does it absolve Benedict for shoddy scholarship. I'm afraid your take doesn't hold much water with me.
@@AlwaysDoing I've lived in Japan for 32 years, since 1988! It honestly took me 15 years to become fluent in Japanese. After 5 years, I was barely conversational, so there is no way I could grasp the nuance and implication imbued in Japanese speech. Like you, I'm married to a Japanese and I feel very confident that I fully understand the Japanese way of thinking in most if not all areas of social discourse. I grew up playing competitive ice hockey in Canada and have found that Japanese society is very much like a team in many aspects. It's hierarchical in that veterans have a higher status on the totem pole so to speak and the coach and managers are the leaders, but the veterans, coaches and managers are responsible for the care and development of those in their charge. Also, the team concept does not mean that the individual is suppressed, individuality is encouraged as creativity is crucial in sport as it is in society. I think most Westerners get this wrong about Japanese society. Yes, the group is paramount, be that group a family, team, community, workplace or nation, but the individual is also cherished and cared for in the group and individuality is not frowned upon unless it harms the group in any way. My two cents on the matter. I appreciate your accurate review of Benedict's book. I felt the same when I read it.
Sorry for this comment. Funnily, I read this book in Japan at my then boyfriend’s house when I taught in Kobe. He was Japanese but had been married to a Swiss German woman. I don’t know if the book had been hers before the divorce. I found it interesting as a newbie there but Recognized that a lot of what she wrote was either no longer true or just false. Not being a Christian, I didn’t Understand a lot of the religious comparisons as you did. I appreciate the passion you gave to the review as well as the fairness. My mother was alive during World War II and she was fed a lot of the misinformation and prejudice of the time. When my daughter and then I went to Japan, she was horrified. I must say though that her opinion was changed through my daughters getting her degree in Japanese studies and moving to Japan before I did. She was amazed. It’s wonderful to see someone Turn away from prejudice and False judgments about other people. She’s gone now, but I’d like to think that our moving to Japan has something to do with her change of mind. Aloha Maya
Don't apologize for leaving comments - I love to hear from you! I feel lucky that my family (and my husband's family) has been supportive of our relationship. I was worried about meeting my grandmother-in-law, as she actually worked for the war effort when she was a young woman, but she has been nothing but lovely and kind. It may have also helped that our families fought in different theatres - my grandfathers were sent to Europe, his to other parts of Asia. Here's to time healing wounds and opening minds! 💕
@@AlwaysDoing Thanks for your kind reply. I tend to leave long comments. Maybe it’s because I’m a writer or that I use my voice app and don’t have to type it LOL. What my mother was most amazed that was that my daughter could Speak and even read Japanese. I think it made her see the Japanese as human and not the Caricatures that she was growing up with. Stay well and Aloha
It is surprising to me. This book was propagated as a very faithful treatise on Japan, and that the writer had lived there for decades! I fell for it. Thank you! Thanks also to Professor Renato Alcântara, for directing me this clarifying video.
It's something else, isn't it? I'm glad I could provide some perspective and honored that Professor Alcântara is recommending my video. Thanks for watching, and I hope your studies are going well!
Buddhism has the eightfold path. That is the moral basis of Buddhism. Essentially this is not a set of laws set down by a wrathful God but a skilful means of living. Thank you for this video.
I would personally not call Buddhism a religion. To me, it's more like a way of thinking, I guess you could call it a philosophy .... and I always feel a bit bothered when westerners who just want to put words of concepts they know on completely foreign concepts just call it a "religion" because that's the only think they can really make it relate to. I've been living in Japan for a bunch of years now, and I've discussed a bit with Japanese people who speak really good English ... and yeah, I think that I've heard more than once that Buddhism is not a religion. I'm not sure about Shintoism, but I don't think that I would call it a religion either. ( English isn't my native language though, but it always or often bothers me when foreigners just want to make everything fit their way of thinking. It might also be the fact that I cannot really stand western monotheistic religions for many reasons, and don't want to see Buddhism associated to something like that haha )
I feel so lucky we can read this with critical thinking, I learnt so much from the reading process as well! This made me realized an out dated nonfiction is somehow "horrible" haha, but thinking about how she wrote this book in such short amount of time, I can't say I'm not impressed lol, but well, I wouldn't recommend-recommend it also haha. Thank you and big bugs to you XD and yay for future buddy reading possibilities!!
I agree - it's impressive, even if she gets some things wrong. And double yes to not being able to happily recommend it to people 😂 Thanks for the awesome buddy read, looking forward to another one! 💕
I’ve had a quick sift through the comments and while there have been some notes on government involvement I think it was largely created as a purposeful work to ‘other’ the Japanese as possible. Back at uni I had to read the book as well as multiple critiques of it as I had to do a paper on the how media frequently uses ‘othering’ with the Japanese as a selling point, and from both the classes, readings and my own general conjecture (which may be very off) the general idea was the book needed to alienate the Japanese. Post Perl Harbour the Japanese needed to be as much of an enemy as possible, as cruel, amoral and violent in their depictions as one could give mostly to make fighting, and more importantly killing, the enemy easier. Arguably this book is not THAT bad, but it is bad enough that it likely met the criteria to be passed as a definite analysis of the Japanese that seemed academic and humanising enough to warrant trust, but not sympathetic as to allow people to feel mercy toward any violent actions by the Japanese. It has been some years since I looked at this, and while I’m glancing through the book now for other purposes, I cant fully remember everything Benedict claimed so my take here may be off. Its good to compare it with other material at the time, ranging from (woefully inaccurate) pamphlets on how to spot the Japanese as well as movies such as “Know your Enemy: Japan” (search on TH-cam) which paints the most absurd images it can. In that way Benedict’s book is somewhat respectable, but being the most respectable of a bad lot is not exactly the best praise one can give. This made even more of an issue as that respectability has been taken up by some Uyoku elements to highlight Japanese exceptionalism and demand for their own racial purity. Anyhow, good review on a wonky book :)
Thank you so much for this thoughtful and informative comment! I think you're the first person I've talked with that has studied this book in an academic setting so I'm soaking all of this in. I agree that the Othering is purposeful, and the idea that it's just academic enough to be trustworthy while still pushing the government line is sticking in my brain. I wonder if there were any changes asked for in editing, or if certain lines of inquiry were suggested to Benedict (why don't the Japanese recognize what they're doing as 'evil', etc.) I just had my first look at the "how to spot a Japanese" pamphlet and, wow. And great point that this all ties into Nihonjinron. Thanks again for the insightful dialogue - so glad you liked the review! Take care and be well.
That whole thing about if you aren’t religious you can’t be moral got my goat and I think I’d have a hard time with this book even without knowing as much about Japanese culture as you do Kazen. Great review though and how lucky to have read it with Meonicorn, she’s so lovely.
Yeah, the whole ethics thing really gets to me, too. GAH. Don't feel bad about leaving this one by the wayside! 😉 And Meonicorn and I are already on the lookout for our next buddy read - she rocks 💕
I'm still reading, haven't finished the book. So far, I think you are right about Benedict wasn't successfully separate wheat and chaff. If you are interested in orientals' culture, I recommend you learn a little more about Confucianism/Ru-ism/儒. Then you will find the book's description of Japanese behaviors and moral standards are easy to understand. I would say Confucianism is the heart of the orientals' thousands of years long culture. It still invisibly but heavily affects Japan China Korea society today. There are multiple keystone ancient books built the foundation of it, just like the holy bible on Christianity. They are "Four Books and Five Classics"/四书五经. I'm quite confident your husband and your friend probably will recognize them if you show the books' Chinese titles to them. Both our ancestors were literally require to read them thousands of times repeatedly through their childhood. Just some knowledge about the word origin. So, 儒(Ru from Ru-ism) is combined by two character 人(people) and 需(needs). 需(needs) derives from 介(its ancient definition is value). So the Confucianism literally means the ism of people's value. And, love your videos. Thanks
Part of Benedict's bias was due to the fact that WW2 was on and there was no way to present the Japanese other than in the form of national character tropes. ie devious, shame obsessed, etc..
I'm not sure I understand your point. "There was no [other] way to present the Japanese" - because a war was on and it served the US government to present this view? In that case the book isn't science, as Benedict asserts, but propaganda. If you're implying that because she couldn't visit Japan she had to rely on tropes, that doesn't work either. That's not a study, it's a harmful perpetuation of stereotypes, and again, propaganda.
@@AlwaysDoing Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant, the book was commissioned after Pearl Harbor when America realized it was at war with a country it had no understanding of. There were no books on Japan at the time. I agree, it doesn't hold up as an anthropological text and devolves into moralizing from her WASP perspective.
Quite commonly people judges her and knows that she just got the job from the government and wrote about it in a paternalistic way and lacking in accuracy. However, why don’t you explain more about it? For instance, if they are so pacific now it’s because it’s a small country and better for them to not bother China or other countries anymore. yakuza, geishas, harakiri, kamikaze, hikikomori, suicide, .. so much interesting topics to discuss that are not discussed in a review of this book. what do the japanese women honestly think of geishas? how is feminism doing in Japan nowadays? Maybe that movie from a renowned japanese moviemaker answers this question: www.imdb.com/title/tt0045112/ And yes, buddhism is much better than other religions because buddhism is about becoming independent and free instead of a puppet that believes what a master of puppets says. Are women free in Japan? I ask from my ignorance.
Despite how frustrating it sounds from a life angle, that sounds fascinating from a historical perspective. If you ever felt like sharing, I'd be curious to hear more about the conversations you, your husband, and Meonicorn had about WWII history as well. I love having that kind of conversation in real life, so I'm nosy about things like that! ;)
The biggest WWII point that came up was the (weak!) justification Japan put forward for invading China, and how many ships various nations sent there. Oh, and how when China sends ships somewhere they load it with treasure to show off their wealth and gain trading partners, while America and other Western powers tend to load their ships with guns and soldiers, ha. We also talked about how that history carries forward to today - China is sore that Japan never apologized for wartime atrocities and that PMs visit a shrine where war criminals are interred, Korea is mad about about "comfort women" even though they got an apology and reparations, Japan thinks it has sufficiently made amends and would like everyone else to drop it, and all three countries plus Russia are bickering over uninhabitable islands at the edges of their territories. Fun times! 😉
I read Coming of Age in Samoa by Margaret Mead last year. Mead was a colleague and likely-lover of Benedict. I had similar feelings about that book to yours on this one. It’s importance to me was as a major milepost of academic anthropology’s early years (which is what my degree is in) but I kept cringing the paternalism and assumptions she constantly displayed. I gave it three stars too and probably wouldn’t recommend it to anyone.
It's a weird space, knowing that the book was important at the time while recognizing that ooo boy, it wouldn't fly today. So interesting about the Mead, and yea for knowing I can skip it! Thank goodness this studying at a distance idea didn't stick around 😅
Yep, I read that one a long time ago. What I notice about books like this is how unaware the scientists are about their own biases and blind spots even as they study their topics ‘objectively.’ I wonder too, since this started out as a government-funded report, if the book was heavily edited for publication by some bureaucrat with an agenda. What an excellent choice for a buddy read!
Ooo, that's a good question about the editing considering government involvement! I'm not sure exactly how much was funded by the Feds - the wikipedia page says it was "written at the invitation of the U.S. Office of War Information" which sounds wishy washy to me 🤷🏻♀️ Maybe there was a supplemental report for government eyes only? The last chapter sounds like it was written after the end of the war, with Benedict praising how well the US handled the occupation and so forth, which you could read as patriotism (we rock!) or pandering (good job, people who are paying me!) So much to wonder about 🤔
This sounds like such a frustrating book to read! The author seems to be on the moral high ground and really needs to open her mind to other cultures, in my opinion! I love how you're trying to salvage the book by saying she did her best but constantly finding it difficult to find good things! I don't understand how you write a book without firsthand knowledge but I guess you can! I'm glad it's over for both of you :)
Hehe, thanks so much Nashwa! It's so hard to read and evaluate a book that was innovative in its time but still so downright wrong. I'm very glad to have moved on to Japanese writers for the second half of the month!
Oh the thoughts! Studying the culture from a distance sounds like a set-up for failure. This whole book is yikes… I cringed so much during your review. I know she got some things right but the ranty bits about what she got wrong were my favorite parts of this review!
Oh my gosh..she was assigned to report on a culture without actually seeing anything firsthand and what she came up with was taken seriously? That sounds irresponsible at best, dangerous at worst -- especially considering the war. This books sounds super frustrating.
I'm kind of surprised she got a couple of things right! So glad this was a short-lived trend in research. It was nice to be frustrated with Meonicorn and not alone, hehe.
Benedict had an able assistant who did most of the translating: Robert Seido Hashima, to whom she gives much credit, and obviously viewed warmly. She didn't need to learn Japanese. Her book needs to be examined in the context of the time, not dissected decades later. There are many weaknesses, which are forgivable given the constraints. However, it's one of the most popular foreign books available in Japan, and has been since the late 1940s. It would be difficult to find a foreign book which has been as influential in another country, barring religious texts. Yes, she compares American and Japanese cultures, but that was the point of the exercise. Her intended audience was the American military, which the reports for the American Office of War Information (OWI) attempted to understand the actions and motivations of kamikaze flyers and prisoners-of-war (or rather, the actions Japanese servicemen took NOT to become a PoW). Many of those reports were not entirely Benedict's own work- the theses on potty training and masturbation most likely came from British anthropologist Geoffrey Gorer whom Benedict replaced at OWI. Gorer leaned more to the psychological aspects of anthropology, and while this may have rubbed off on Benedict somewhat, she was primarily a folklorist. What Benedict was not is one of her weaknesses, and that's a historian. She failed to take into account that the attitudes she was describing (or getting wrong, as the case may be) were not set in stone, and indeed she was ascribing attitudes of the militarist elites to common people. The Japanese themselves must see something in Chrysanthemum and the Sword for it to be a perennial top seller in that country. It's worth noting also that the American policy to keep the Emperor and NOT charge him with war crimes was based heavily on Benedict's work and recommendations. Japan might well be a very different place today had that not happened.
Very helpful. I feel this book is a good historical read, more for seeing the American mindset at the time than for gleaning anything about the Japanese people of Imperial Japan.
I lived in Japan and studied their language and culture for 5 years. When I left I was even more confused about their culture and why they behave the way they do. Just when I thought I was gaining some sort of general understanding I would uncover and entirely new layer below the surface. When I spoke to my Japanese colleagues about these new doors I've opened many of them were not even aware. I read the book while living in Japan and I recall at the time it explained a lot. I was not in a position to be able to question everything she wrote but much of it resonated. My position is that even if you were Japanese, grew up there, studied the culture there, you will still not be able to capture the essence of Japanese culture. Lets not forget they were isolated from the rest of the world for 300 years so during that time their culture evolved and developed entirely on its own. Yes, they are a "modern western society" but in many respects from my personal experience, they are nothing like us. I believe that people from anglo western societies have more in common with other countries like the Chinese than the Chinese do with the Japanese. They are solely unique in every way (again, generalising and from my personal experience). So, any attempt to interpret them, their morals, their sense of right from wrong, will be a punt at best. I certainly don't think you can apply your basic moral framework and lay it on top of the Japanese and presume they are the same. Their adherence to authority while I lived there was akin to that of a sociopath from my eyes, sacrificing everything, family and even their lives through overwork (Karoshi). However, I would then experience a level of kindness and generosity unlike anything I have experienced. But like every society they evolve and change and its a mixed bag. I enjoyed the book. I most definitely appreciated and respect the effort and output from Benedict considering her circumstances. Worth the read but its just one summation. There are many and none of them are conclusive.
I've been studying Japanese for 20 years, I've lived here for 12, and I'm a medical interpreter who helps English-speaking patients and Japanese medical staff bridge all kinds of linguistic and cultural divides. It's understandable that you would have trouble grasping many aspects of Japanese society after only five years' study but that does not mean that the Japanese are unknowable, nor does it absolve Benedict for shoddy scholarship. I'm afraid your take doesn't hold much water with me.
@@AlwaysDoing I've lived in Japan for 32 years, since 1988! It honestly took me 15 years to become fluent in Japanese. After 5 years, I was barely conversational, so there is no way I could grasp the nuance and implication imbued in Japanese speech. Like you, I'm married to a Japanese and I feel very confident that I fully understand the Japanese way of thinking in most if not all areas of social discourse. I grew up playing competitive ice hockey in Canada and have found that Japanese society is very much like a team in many aspects. It's hierarchical in that veterans have a higher status on the totem pole so to speak and the coach and managers are the leaders, but the veterans, coaches and managers are responsible for the care and development of those in their charge. Also, the team concept does not mean that the individual is suppressed, individuality is encouraged as creativity is crucial in sport as it is in society. I think most Westerners get this wrong about Japanese society. Yes, the group is paramount, be that group a family, team, community, workplace or nation, but the individual is also cherished and cared for in the group and individuality is not frowned upon unless it harms the group in any way. My two cents on the matter. I appreciate your accurate review of Benedict's book. I felt the same when I read it.
Sorry for this comment. Funnily, I read this book in Japan at my then boyfriend’s house when I taught in Kobe. He was Japanese but had been married to a Swiss German woman. I don’t know if the book had been hers before the divorce. I found it interesting as a newbie there but Recognized that a lot of what she wrote was either no longer true or just false. Not being a Christian, I didn’t Understand a lot of the religious comparisons as you did. I appreciate the passion you gave to the review as well as the fairness. My mother was alive during World War II and she was fed a lot of the misinformation and prejudice of the time. When my daughter and then I went to Japan, she was horrified. I must say though that her opinion was changed through my daughters getting her degree in Japanese studies and moving to Japan before I did. She was amazed. It’s wonderful to see someone Turn away from prejudice and False judgments about other people. She’s gone now, but I’d like to think that our moving to Japan has something to do with her change of mind. Aloha Maya
Don't apologize for leaving comments - I love to hear from you! I feel lucky that my family (and my husband's family) has been supportive of our relationship. I was worried about meeting my grandmother-in-law, as she actually worked for the war effort when she was a young woman, but she has been nothing but lovely and kind. It may have also helped that our families fought in different theatres - my grandfathers were sent to Europe, his to other parts of Asia. Here's to time healing wounds and opening minds! 💕
@@AlwaysDoing Thanks for your kind reply. I tend to leave long comments. Maybe it’s because I’m a writer or that I use my voice app and don’t have to type it LOL. What my mother was most amazed that was that my daughter could Speak and even read Japanese. I think it made her see the Japanese as human and not the Caricatures that she was growing up with. Stay well and Aloha
It is surprising to me. This book was propagated as a very faithful treatise on Japan, and that the writer had lived there for decades! I fell for it. Thank you! Thanks also to Professor Renato Alcântara, for directing me this clarifying video.
It's something else, isn't it? I'm glad I could provide some perspective and honored that Professor Alcântara is recommending my video. Thanks for watching, and I hope your studies are going well!
i love The Chrysanthemum and the Sword. great book
Thanks for watching!
Buddhism has the eightfold path. That is the moral basis of Buddhism. Essentially this is not a set of laws set down by a wrathful God but a skilful means of living. Thank you for this video.
I would personally not call Buddhism a religion.
To me, it's more like a way of thinking, I guess you could call it a philosophy .... and I always feel a bit bothered when westerners who just want to put words of concepts they know on completely foreign concepts just call it a "religion" because that's the only think they can really make it relate to.
I've been living in Japan for a bunch of years now, and I've discussed a bit with Japanese people who speak really good English ... and yeah, I think that I've heard more than once that Buddhism is not a religion.
I'm not sure about Shintoism, but I don't think that I would call it a religion either.
( English isn't my native language though, but it always or often bothers me when foreigners just want to make everything fit their way of thinking. It might also be the fact that I cannot really stand western monotheistic religions for many reasons, and don't want to see Buddhism associated to something like that haha )
In terms of its impact on a societal level in Japan, the eightfold path is virtually unknown except by scholars or monks.
I feel so lucky we can read this with critical thinking, I learnt so much from the reading process as well! This made me realized an out dated nonfiction is somehow "horrible" haha, but thinking about how she wrote this book in such short amount of time, I can't say I'm not impressed lol, but well, I wouldn't recommend-recommend it also haha. Thank you and big bugs to you XD and yay for future buddy reading possibilities!!
I agree - it's impressive, even if she gets some things wrong. And double yes to not being able to happily recommend it to people 😂 Thanks for the awesome buddy read, looking forward to another one! 💕
I’ve had a quick sift through the comments and while there have been some notes on government involvement I think it was largely created as a purposeful work to ‘other’ the Japanese as possible. Back at uni I had to read the book as well as multiple critiques of it as I had to do a paper on the how media frequently uses ‘othering’ with the Japanese as a selling point, and from both the classes, readings and my own general conjecture (which may be very off) the general idea was the book needed to alienate the Japanese. Post Perl Harbour the Japanese needed to be as much of an enemy as possible, as cruel, amoral and violent in their depictions as one could give mostly to make fighting, and more importantly killing, the enemy easier.
Arguably this book is not THAT bad, but it is bad enough that it likely met the criteria to be passed as a definite analysis of the Japanese that seemed academic and humanising enough to warrant trust, but not sympathetic as to allow people to feel mercy toward any violent actions by the Japanese.
It has been some years since I looked at this, and while I’m glancing through the book now for other purposes, I cant fully remember everything Benedict claimed so my take here may be off. Its good to compare it with other material at the time, ranging from (woefully inaccurate) pamphlets on how to spot the Japanese as well as movies such as “Know your Enemy: Japan” (search on TH-cam) which paints the most absurd images it can. In that way Benedict’s book is somewhat respectable, but being the most respectable of a bad lot is not exactly the best praise one can give. This made even more of an issue as that respectability has been taken up by some Uyoku elements to highlight Japanese exceptionalism and demand for their own racial purity.
Anyhow, good review on a wonky book :)
Thank you so much for this thoughtful and informative comment! I think you're the first person I've talked with that has studied this book in an academic setting so I'm soaking all of this in.
I agree that the Othering is purposeful, and the idea that it's just academic enough to be trustworthy while still pushing the government line is sticking in my brain. I wonder if there were any changes asked for in editing, or if certain lines of inquiry were suggested to Benedict (why don't the Japanese recognize what they're doing as 'evil', etc.)
I just had my first look at the "how to spot a Japanese" pamphlet and, wow. And great point that this all ties into Nihonjinron.
Thanks again for the insightful dialogue - so glad you liked the review! Take care and be well.
That whole thing about if you aren’t religious you can’t be moral got my goat and I think I’d have a hard time with this book even without knowing as much about Japanese culture as you do Kazen. Great review though and how lucky to have read it with Meonicorn, she’s so lovely.
Yeah, the whole ethics thing really gets to me, too. GAH. Don't feel bad about leaving this one by the wayside! 😉 And Meonicorn and I are already on the lookout for our next buddy read - she rocks 💕
Yes! And that's why buddy reading is so rewarding. This was fascinating, thanks Kazen.
I'm just getting into buddy reads and I'm loving it so much. Thank you, Alba! 💕
I'm still reading, haven't finished the book. So far, I think you are right about Benedict wasn't successfully separate wheat and chaff.
If you are interested in orientals' culture, I recommend you learn a little more about Confucianism/Ru-ism/儒. Then you will find the book's description of Japanese behaviors and moral standards are easy to understand. I would say Confucianism is the heart of the orientals' thousands of years long culture. It still invisibly but heavily affects Japan China Korea society today.
There are multiple keystone ancient books built the foundation of it, just like the holy bible on Christianity. They are "Four Books and Five Classics"/四书五经. I'm quite confident your husband and your friend probably will recognize them if you show the books' Chinese titles to them. Both our ancestors were literally require to read them thousands of times repeatedly through their childhood.
Just some knowledge about the word origin. So, 儒(Ru from Ru-ism) is combined by two character 人(people) and 需(needs). 需(needs) derives from 介(its ancient definition is value). So the Confucianism literally means the ism of people's value.
And, love your videos. Thanks
Loved this. And now my secret is out: I moved here for the taboo-free possibilities vis-à-vis self-love. 😂😂🥰🥰
Thank you, Shawn! And the food and beautiful scenery are just a side bonus. 😂
Part of Benedict's bias was due to the fact that WW2 was on and there was no way to present the Japanese other than in the form of national character tropes. ie devious, shame obsessed, etc..
I'm not sure I understand your point. "There was no [other] way to present the Japanese" - because a war was on and it served the US government to present this view? In that case the book isn't science, as Benedict asserts, but propaganda. If you're implying that because she couldn't visit Japan she had to rely on tropes, that doesn't work either. That's not a study, it's a harmful perpetuation of stereotypes, and again, propaganda.
@@AlwaysDoing Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant, the book was commissioned after Pearl Harbor when America realized it was at war with a country it had no understanding of. There were no books on Japan at the time.
I agree, it doesn't hold up as an anthropological text and devolves into moralizing from her WASP perspective.
@@damagejackal10 Thank you for the clarification! I agree with your main point, but think she could have done better with the resources she had.
Quite commonly people judges her and knows that she just got the job from the government and wrote about it in a paternalistic way and lacking in accuracy. However, why don’t you explain more about it? For instance, if they are so pacific now it’s because it’s a small country and better for them to not bother China or other countries anymore.
yakuza, geishas, harakiri, kamikaze, hikikomori, suicide, .. so much interesting topics to discuss that are not discussed in a review of this book. what do the japanese women honestly think of geishas? how is feminism doing in Japan nowadays?
Maybe that movie from a renowned japanese moviemaker answers this question: www.imdb.com/title/tt0045112/
And yes, buddhism is much better than other religions because buddhism is about becoming independent and free instead of a puppet that believes what a master of puppets says. Are women free in Japan? I ask from my ignorance.
Despite how frustrating it sounds from a life angle, that sounds fascinating from a historical perspective. If you ever felt like sharing, I'd be curious to hear more about the conversations you, your husband, and Meonicorn had about WWII history as well. I love having that kind of conversation in real life, so I'm nosy about things like that! ;)
The biggest WWII point that came up was the (weak!) justification Japan put forward for invading China, and how many ships various nations sent there. Oh, and how when China sends ships somewhere they load it with treasure to show off their wealth and gain trading partners, while America and other Western powers tend to load their ships with guns and soldiers, ha.
We also talked about how that history carries forward to today - China is sore that Japan never apologized for wartime atrocities and that PMs visit a shrine where war criminals are interred, Korea is mad about about "comfort women" even though they got an apology and reparations, Japan thinks it has sufficiently made amends and would like everyone else to drop it, and all three countries plus Russia are bickering over uninhabitable islands at the edges of their territories. Fun times! 😉
I read Coming of Age in Samoa by Margaret Mead last year. Mead was a colleague and likely-lover of Benedict. I had similar feelings about that book to yours on this one. It’s importance to me was as a major milepost of academic anthropology’s early years (which is what my degree is in) but I kept cringing the paternalism and assumptions she constantly displayed. I gave it three stars too and probably wouldn’t recommend it to anyone.
It's a weird space, knowing that the book was important at the time while recognizing that ooo boy, it wouldn't fly today. So interesting about the Mead, and yea for knowing I can skip it! Thank goodness this studying at a distance idea didn't stick around 😅
Yep, I read that one a long time ago. What I notice about books like this is how unaware the scientists are about their own biases and blind spots even as they study their topics ‘objectively.’ I wonder too, since this started out as a government-funded report, if the book was heavily edited for publication by some bureaucrat with an agenda. What an excellent choice for a buddy read!
Ooo, that's a good question about the editing considering government involvement! I'm not sure exactly how much was funded by the Feds - the wikipedia page says it was "written at the invitation of the U.S. Office of War Information" which sounds wishy washy to me 🤷🏻♀️ Maybe there was a supplemental report for government eyes only? The last chapter sounds like it was written after the end of the war, with Benedict praising how well the US handled the occupation and so forth, which you could read as patriotism (we rock!) or pandering (good job, people who are paying me!) So much to wonder about 🤔
Thanks, This was helpful. Reading it now.
My pleasure - thanks for watching!
This sounds like such a frustrating book to read! The author seems to be on the moral high ground and really needs to open her mind to other cultures, in my opinion! I love how you're trying to salvage the book by saying she did her best but constantly finding it difficult to find good things! I don't understand how you write a book without firsthand knowledge but I guess you can! I'm glad it's over for both of you :)
Hehe, thanks so much Nashwa! It's so hard to read and evaluate a book that was innovative in its time but still so downright wrong. I'm very glad to have moved on to Japanese writers for the second half of the month!
Cheers to meinicorn
Great review 👍
Thank you!
Oh the thoughts! Studying the culture from a distance sounds like a set-up for failure. This whole book is yikes… I cringed so much during your review. I know she got some things right but the ranty bits about what she got wrong were my favorite parts of this review!
The ranting felt a bit therapeutic - I think I needed it! 😂
Oh my gosh..she was assigned to report on a culture without actually seeing anything firsthand and what she came up with was taken seriously? That sounds irresponsible at best, dangerous at worst -- especially considering the war. This books sounds super frustrating.
I'm kind of surprised she got a couple of things right! So glad this was a short-lived trend in research. It was nice to be frustrated with Meonicorn and not alone, hehe.