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My sister has been telling me for months that she isnt going to recognize me as her brother until i look the part. so basically after i start T. I think its bull shit. I am a man regardless of how I look.
my sister calls me straight yet im a gay trans guy. your right siblings suck. I took my first T shot a few hours ago. I cant wait to see her trip over my pronouns a few months from now
+emoriotfreak13 Well there will always be good and bad siblings. I'm blessed to have my sisters who both respect my name and pronouns as me being a transman. So I'm so sorry that your siblings aren't accepting but I'll pray [or hope if you aren't religious!] that your sister becomes supporting. Keep hope, dood! Things get better
yeah I use this terminology and like it much better! for example: Chase is usually read as male. meaning, most people see he him and think "that's a man". this phrasing takes the responsibility of presentation off of the trans person and puts it on to the viewer. our bodies are not a pass/fail tests; we are not responsible for people's perception of our gender.
I thought so too, Probablyasonglyric explained it quite well.writerofbaddreams If your interested the book was called "the nearest exit may be behind you" I can't remember who by though).
YES. Yes yes yes. This is a zillion times better than "passing" and means pretty much the same thing, without most of the nasty connotations highlighted by Chase here and +probablyasonglyric above. And I feel like this is especially important for non-binary folks, who don't usually want to "pass" as either male or female, at least not in the gender-affirming way that "passing" usually means.
This is something I have discussed for 15 Years at guest lectures for counseling and psychology students. You touched on a lot and I was so hoping your were about to say THE MOST TOXIC ASPECT OF PASSING IS IT OPPOSITE FAILING. Transgender and 3rd gender experiences are not meant to be tests, with cis-gender report cards to work and study harder for gender validation. Imagine saying to somebody with facial and or body deformity (I am not going to accept you as = until you stop looking deformed. Yes I know you have been working on your disability for years, but we cant accept you into the umbrella of our family until you pass as normal. ) How do you think the general population would react to that ?
As a trans guy who has been out for almost a decade but still binds and hasn't had hormone therapy, this video really speaks to my experience. There is a hierarchy of trans people within the LGBT community, which incorporates passing (as well as things like race, ability, weight, etc). There is something so unnervingly superficial about the notion of passing, and it really makes non-passing trans people's lives hell. I wonder if you've read "Nobody Passes: Rejecting the Rules of Gender and Conformity". It's a really great read that confronts the issues of passing from many different personal contexts.
I know this is an old video, but I feel like the most problematic aspect of "passing" is the assumption that ONLY trans people pass or don't pass. The assumption is that cis people just ARE, but I've known personally cis non-intersex heterosexual people who did not or at least did not always "pass" as their gender. The assumption that only trans people can pass or not is based on the fact that society bases its passing/not passing standards on cis people. But cis women also have a variety of body types, sizes, body hair, etc and the same is true for cis men. As a trans guy who doesn't "pass" or get read as a guy often, who is very femme and who is often mistaken as a cis straight women instead of a queer man of any sort, I guess the biggest issue of the concept of passing is that it is assuming you pass for being cis as well as passing for the gender you actually are.
I agree 100%, passing is important to me for safety reasons but it's ridiculous how many times I've seen people say that you aren't really trans if you don't pass. I think it's important for trans people who don't "pass" to be visible within the community because not everyone's transition must include passing
Honestly passing in public is the whole reason for transitioning whether you do it medically with surgery or hormones or just physically changing to present more as the gender that you feel inside. When you go somewhere, anywhere and you get called the gender that you are presenting you are passing. And for many trans people passing feels really good, especially when they are used to bein recognized as the gender that they are presenting. And lots of time being trans passing does mean that you don't act the way you would at home sometimes you have to assimilate therefore passing as something you aren't. It's sad.
I completely agree. I only recently realized that I am trans, and I can't help feeling like I have to transition whether I want to or not.(I do want to transition, the point is I fell like I don´t have a choice, if I want to be accepted as trans)
I completely agree, and I'm glad you talked about this. I hate that people who don't want to, or people who physically or financially can't afford to medically transition have to risk physical and verbal abuse.
This is such an important topic and I'm so glad that you made this video, thank you so so much! There are so many aspects of passing and I can understand that is a safety/happiness issue for some people, but the whole societal structures behind it are just really fucked up. I'm pre everything and still look very feminin. Even if I try really really hard I will certainly not pass before I go on hormones. And the thought of not passing, of not being recognized as a guy because to other people I look feminine and therefore must be feminine freaks me out so so much. I'm kind of sure I wouldn't even care to make myself look more masculine with haircuts and clothes if I could just be taken seriously as a guy even with a female looking body. It's just such a pressure point really, and I'm so happy that you talked about this. Thanks again, you are amazing and I'll always be stoked for more videos from you :)
I am genderfluid but when I am feeling more masculine I definitely don't pass...I have a very feminine face and voice and sometimes I feel like I'm invalid because of it. But this made me feel so much better cuz even when I don't pass, I am still a male. So thank you ^_^
Have a think about it. I mean a long, deep and honest reflection. What is it about the way you are and how you see the world that differs vastly from the norm? And does this mode of thinking introduce stress and negativity into your life that wouldn't otherwise be there? If you can do this honestly, and go on to receive professional help, you will start to become more happy and well-adjusted in yourself. Be well.
wibblegorm Wow! you would say that... lol but for real tho if all the stress and negativity is caused by society, then I think it's our society that needs help.
Thank you for this video. It's an important topic. I hate trying to pass, I despise it, but I try, and, pre-everything, I tend to only pass sometimes so I've been waiting desperately to go on T (I'm an FtM). I recently went to a place in which everyone was trans. I was there for a bit, and felt so much more comfortable, I didn't feel the need to rush to pass. I realized that the main reason I'm so eager to pass so fast, is so that other people in cisioty will see me as male. It's just such a screwed up idea, but I, and so many other people, follow it. (This is just my experience, and not to say that everyone tries to pass mostly for cisioty.)
I like it when people say I pass. I know it sounds bad but it is my choice to look like a cisgender, masculine man. Cisgender doesn't mean masculine but most cis guys are masculine. If I looked feminine but called myself male, there would be no point in me going on T and getting surgery.
For me personally it's super important to pass in public because when people call me by female pronouns / words it just makes me so uncomfortable and self-conscious. Especially when I have a day where I feel confident in my masculinity it just makes me feel so depressed when someone assumes I'm female. But like, if someone were to tell me "You're not trans because you don't pass" I'd probably facepalm myself into space. That's just as bad as saying "You're not trans because you're not on hormones."
the problem with passing is that it assumes that all trans people want to be cis people, or the cis version of their identity. im a trans guy, and i personally have ZERO interest in ever being a cis guy. its cool if people think i am, but its not something im actively trying to achieve. i am only interested in making my body/presentation comfortable for myself, not in order to be read as male 100% of the time.
I personally don't pass 90% of the time., and it really sucks, but getting to watch your videos and hearing your opinions on these important topics is so inspiring Chase. You're an amazing guy and a true inspiration.
I think that if with the way you want to transition, you want to pass, then you should totally strive for it, but if you don't care or want to then you don't have to. Everyone should be able to do whatever they want without getting shit on, you know?
TW: cisnormativity/transphobia There is so much wrong about this ... it's like we don't fit in with society and gender/sex norms in the first place, but we're supposed to try fixing it apparently. So if we don't put (enough) effort into "passing", society is basically like "You don't wanna be cis? What's wrong with you - don't you know noone would want to be like you, so TRANS??!"
You are so awesome !!! I am freakin glad that you think 'passing' is this horrible expectation of society to trans people and it absolutely sucks. As a non-binary genderqueer individual especially. Presenting feminine but feeling very masculine most of the time f.e. is such a problem bc if people do not see that you are anyhow trying to pass or whatever they often assume your identity isn't really valid.
I agree with what you said here very much so. Passing has become important to me on and off as I have a lot of social dysphoria and safety. I've gotten to the point though where at least some of the time it doesn't get to me or I don't see it as important because overall I'm pretty content and comfortable. I do find it discusting though that the concept of passing is the end all be all and "proof" of "true transness." Society should shh. I experience it with society as a whole, but also more personally. Until I "stop being a girl", quite a few of my family members won't respect my identity.
great video chase. I've had a lot of personal experience with discrimination because I don't "pass" as male, and for a long time early in my transition, I obsessed over "passing" and I thought that I wouldn't be happy until I did. Even my parents, my father mostly, didn't accept me as male until he found out that transguys could "pass" as male. I remember showing him videos of transguys talking about their transition and him saying "wow, you would never know he was a female." and whatnot. then he seemed to be like "okay, my son will actually look like a son one day." its fucked up because societies concept of male and female is so skewed, and to be accepted as the trans you have to be "cis passing". An iconic tweet from Matt McGorry is so important: "Let us remember that Caitlyn (Jenner) and other trans folks' value shouldn't be valued on how much they look 'convincingly cisgender'." AMEN
My problem with passing is that as a non-binary person, while I have transitioned already I will never actually "pass", people will just assume in male or female depending on what I'm wearing.
I'm non binary (agender), so it's not really possible for me to "pass", but I feel more comfortable looking "like a guy" than "like a girl". Usually people assume I'm a guy even though I'm afab and am not on T (I'm a teenager so it's plausible for me to look like a 13-year-old boy), but my voice is really high, so after I say something, people usually just look confused.
I think society and individuals are all in an upheaval as we as a whole learn what words to use, what concepts we are trying to explain and discuss, and what was ok a yr ago .. has shifted, changed, and words have changed and shifted.. and we go from saying and talking about one thing.. but we may mean .. something else.. as we evolve.. evolve.. in words, concepts, and keep talking! keep talking about all of this!! Great job..
I agree!! Obviously the first time a trans person 'passes' in a stranger's eyes they're gonna be excited to finally be recognised as their authentic gender without having it questioned, but the whole concept of 'passing' can be so so so damaging to those who can not, or choose not to, transition medically! Great video x
I totally agree. I, personally, don't care if I always 'pass' because while yes, it's painful to be misgendered, it's pretty hard not to be if you're androgynous (for me, at least). I want to transition, but it's for my own comfort rather than my ability to 'pass.' Anyone who tells me that I'm not trans because I don't look like a guy doesn't matter to me.
Totally agree with you... "passing" is only truly important at all because of the safety aspect, and the only reason it's ever necessary for safety is because society as a whole doesn't understand or respect gender as the spectrum that it is. I prefer the term "stealth" because although it's really very similar in concept to "passing," it's more conscious of the fact that the only reason it's brought up is that some of us are basically pretending to be cis in a society that still sees cis as the norm (whether we do so consciously or just fall into it because if society's assumptions based on appearances). I envy those with the ability to be stealth because of the freedom that privilege offers, and I'll admit it's my goal. Sometimes it's hard to figure whether I'm being true to the way I want to look and present, or if I'm being shallow and cowardly and succumbing to society's gender binary... but I definitely think it's ok for someone to want to be stealth whether for safety or personal expression. We are all our own person living our own lives after all, so we aren't any more or less of anything no matter how we appear. Trans people who don't have the goal to be stealth (whether they don't want to pass or can't) are so brave and so intuitive to their own selves, since they are true to themselves regardless of society and safety. They're gender heroes! It's so disgusting that anyone would think they're not trans enough just because they don't happen to fit perfectly into the arbitrary binary.
The thing that really sucks about most of my family is that they won't "see" me as trans unless I "pass". It makes me so sad and every time they misgender me or call me by the wrong name I get so much dysphoria and I have to lock myself up in my room.
I feel like 'passing' is a arbitrary word that came into play when society and some trans individuals needed a term for those who were able to blend in, not stand out, and to mesh into a hetero normative "norm". Which is flawed in many ways; due to its profound and constant bashing into ignorant people the beauty standards for men and women. What both look like and how to identity between the two. I honestly have no clue whether I am visibly trans or passable, sometimes I care for safety and sometimes I don't cause i have bills to pay and i could give no shits lol. Passing i feel is a failsafe term for those who feel like they should have a 'goal' *again my opinion*, and it should be hastened. When in fact most 'passable' men and women did it by taking their time. The last fault to 'passing' is for the older transistioners. Don't need to say much but yah.. Passing is such a weigh-able thought that needs to be shut down and we need to tell ourselves to embrace who we are, and that we need reminding that the beneficial outcome WILL COME IN TIME. What are your thoughts? btw love the vids ! new subbie
People also seem to assume that by going on hormones, your ultimate goal is to "pass" as male or female. I mostly identify as male, but I love looking androgynous. A huge reason why I went on T was so I could put on makeup and more flamboyant clothes and still be read as androgynous.
Judgemental people have such a complicated way of thinking, i never get it. Just live and let live, have compassion, be understanding, give as much love as you can. I accept people for who they are. I dont care if your have breasts, a beard, a penis or a vagina, or all or them at the same time. Your soul is whats important, what I truly care about. And Chase, yours shines through my ipad screen!
Great thesis. I shared it with my best friend who has struggled with this concept even before coming out as trans. Your videos are extremely informational; even for cis friends/family/partners. Thank you.
I am a member of the physically disabled community. In the disabled context we have a similar issue. Society has this idea that the goal for someone that has a disability is to become the “ideal able-body form.” Similar to how Passing is the ideal given by society for the Tans community. I personally use both forearm crutches and a manual wheelchair. It takes way too long to travel long distances using my crutches, so I use my wheelchair for longer distances. Yet people that have seen me using my crutches then later see me in my wheelchair have a reaction of “disappoint or of sadness.” In their eyes I have gotten more “disabled,” since I’m now sitting instead of standing, which is further away from the “ideal abled-body form.” That line of thinking is untrue, since I have the same level of disability as I had the last time we met yet now I’m just using a different tool. Society has this idea that disabled people need operations and need to be “fixed” or overcome their disability to be accepted. Personally I really dislike operations, and try to avoid them. My body does not need them to be acceptable to myself. I will most likely never reach this “ideal able-body form,” and that is okay. It took me years to accept this and watching your videos over the past couple years have really helped me find a sense of concord/understanding in regards to my own disabled body. Since many of your video are about accepting your own body in the context of a society that does not. So Thank-you. (geez that is so corny and this post is way too long)
You're so right oh my god. I talk to people about the fact that I'm trans and they always talk about passing. I wasn't sure what it meant, but it's finally clear to me. It's wrong, like- seriously wrong. You cant label someone as Trans on if they 'pass' or not. It's how that person feels! Gosh..
I have had "passing privilege" through out my entire transition. I haven't even gone on hormones yet or been able to legally change my name. (I'm too broke for it all.) It is ridiculous that society thinks that if you don't look the part then you can't be the part. I have a best friend who is openly non-binary and everyone still calls them "him" or by their legal name because they haven't changed it yet. I just think it's ridiculous. If someone informs you of who they are then that needs to be respects. As for the word "transgendered", I have not heard a word that inflicts so many feelings and emotions from me. I want to set anyone who uses that word on fire because it is the dumbest thing ever and the word itself makes me cringe so hard! I don't know what the point of this rant comment was but I hope it adds to the topic some how? Have a delicious day if you read this entire comment.
I totally agree. About half of my dysphoria, if not more, comes not from inside but from the outside. I haven't started T and have a feminine figure and I'm read as "female" all the damn time. I never hated my body as much as I do since I started trying to live as a guy. I'm not even sure if I want to go on a "full" dose of T or get top surgery ect. but I feel like I have to - I can't even change my gender marker in my state without some medical intervention! It's utterly ridiculous and so damaging, it makes me sick.
I realize that this video is rather old, but I'm just so glad I found it. For a long time i had been postponing the idea i could be trans. I would always identify as agender, just from the fear that. "What if im just not.. 'Passable'" or if the way I would want to transition passed of as trans. This has been going on for years and it wasn't until this year that I finally decided to dwell on the topic. Still being referred to as a female really.. Hurt. I would say it was okay, but being called by my birthname really stung. I had always been afraid to tell people Im trans, or identify as a male from just being scared nobody would take me seriously. I have no trans friends here, I dont know where to look on the internet for people to help me out with this, it just feels like a lonely journey. I was constantly held with self-doubt that I just wouldnt be good enough, or I wouldnt suffice to be a man. This video was like a push to coming to terms to who I am, and want to be.
I've been actively "living as" male (whatever that means) for two years now but because I don't pass my coworkers still use female pronouns even though they all know I'm trans and none of them ever knew me pretransition. Even the other trans guy I work with calls me "ma'am" and "missy" because he just does not see me as male. Very rarely do I ever get read as such and it's pretty detrimental to my mental health. Every time I leave the house alone or use a public bathroom I have the fear that I may be assaulted for being trans.
I used to have very little confidence to tell people I'm trans or to tell people how to call me and correct them. I always thought that until I get hormones no one could take me seriously, and it was horrible. Every time I go out I have to worry about passing, and I mostly tell myself that I'm not, but if I'm not I don't wanna know. The whole concept is ridiculous, but people are so used to the gender binary that there is literally no other way right now than to endure it. But I think it damaged me a bit to know that I will only get taken seriously once I look male (even though some people think I'm male but look feminine, and that's also ridiculous, cause it shows that everyone's perception of gender is different) but since I've got my t letter I feel much more confident, even though I'm not on t yet. I just feel so much better already, knowing I'm gonna have something I've wanted for years, and that kinda shows that it's not only about passing for me. Cause honestly, whoever tells me I'm not male now can go suck it.
You are so right. Passing is problematic concept. However it is something that a lot of us strive for because it is what we need - - we need others to be able to see us as our true selves. It is one of the many reasons that waiting for hormones sucks. Without passing privilege, I personally feel stuck, truly in between and its torture. I knew my mind is male but everywhere I go I must take my body and my body being female, betrays me. I'm just an agonizing wait away from my Doctor's final approval to start T. When changes start to happen & my true self is finally revealed I won't look at it as passing, but Evolving. I desperately want the female bodied me to be extinct, so I can be free of that. The pressure from ourselves to transition is hard enough as is; trans people don 't need the pressure to act/look a certain way from society. However, for now, it is what we must do if we wish to live comfortably in cis-normative society. I want a trans-normative society!
Chase didn't mention this in the video, but I think the biggest issue about the concept of passing is that it's completely cis centered. Passing = trans that looks cis enough, trans that is perceived as cis. It's the same thing when a cis person says "but you don't even look trans!" - insinuating that a trans person's main goal should be to achieve perceived "cisness" is an act of transphobia. It's saying that "looking trans" is undesirable, something people should stay away from. Interesting enough, if society didn't label being transgender as a bad thing, the concept of passing wouldn't even make sense in the first place. People would respect your gender regardless of your looks, so there's no pressure to pass. A trans male who looks completely like a cis female? A trans male who look completely like a cis male? A trans male who look like neither - or both?? All cool! People would respect you based on what you say, and not solely on your looks. Please note that what I'm pointing out is something done by society, by the outside. A trans person who willingly wants to look cis is completely ok, it's society pushing the concept of looking cis as ideal that's not. It's not what a trans person feels like they should look like, it's what our cissexist society wants them to look like. That's what defines passing, and that's why it can be so harmful.
That really makes me think. I'm pre t but I've technically passed since I was a kid. Everyone always thought I was a little boy. So I've never really had to deal with not passing. And being a very masculine, very typical male, I don't understand the issues with being "too feminine to be trans". And I want to fully change everything legally and physically too male. So I can't imagine how it can be to not be seen as "not trans enough or not male enough." If anything I'm to the point of surpassing trans to wanting to be just a regular guy. But yeah passing does seem problematic. That if your not enough of a guy that your just generically queer. Or god forbid "butch". That's got to be rough. I feel for yall.
I pass without hormones well to strangers if I wear a binder however my friend who has been trying to pass for nearly a year now has had no success and has even been called the t slur when he had to explain what gender he was. This is really problematic because he's in danger every single time that he gets misgendered and has to explain as well as it not allowing him to transition comfortably the way he wants to. It just pisses me off that he has to live up to society's standards in order to be seen as trans and transitioning and he has to present as the expectation of the gender he feels physically as well as mentally.
i also HATE society and its view, its really not fair on trans people and it sickens me that society is so wrapped up in its own view its too blinded by it to relise that they are wrong, i agree with you 100%. i love your videos. peach brother :D
I am definitely a trans man that is in the middle of the road. I will some days get male pronouns, and other days get female pronouns, from strangers. It's so frustrating. And the I'll ask my cis friends, "Hey what do you think I could do to pass better? Because at the moment, I feel like shit because nobody is acknowledging which gender I'm trying to put out there." There have been times where I have been kicked out of women's rooms, men's rooms, stores, even grocery stores because people are unsure of my gender. Once I was in a Rite Aid buying some sewing needles, sewing pins, and thread; I overheard a sales woman and a male customer saying "I'm not sure what a thing like that is doing in this store," and "I don't know what IT wants," while they were gesturing to me and pointing at me. Women, on my good passing days, have hit me with their purses, have covered their children's eyes as I walk past them, and have done many other things. And then it's like, oh well, I don't pass enough to go into the men's room, and I pass too well to go into the women's room. So ,as much as my cis friends advise me to "do my own thing," and to "fuck the societal norms," and to "not care what others think," there's a huge problem with that. Because to feel like myself, I need to pass. I need other people to acknowledge my gender.I need to have that recognition of being male. It also doesn't help that my parents won't accept that I am male, and every time that I am out with my dad and we see someone, he will say "Hi, this is my daughter." So now, where I live, my dad is an administrator of the local school, so I introduce myself and everyone will say. "Oh! You're Mr. So and So's daughter!!" And I feel like this wouldn't be an issue if I passed. Then they wouldn't see a girl and associate me with him. So, I sometimes pass, but mostly don't.
This also affects nb folks as well. Since there's not really a concept/stereotype of an nb person, we can't really pass ever. Especially if you're femme, since the closest thing to a stereotype of nbs is a dab transmasculine person. It sucks.
Ever thought of doing a discussion group about it? Like around a coffee? Astteq holds meeting every monday night, maybe they could be of any help? I'm throwing ideas here.
I thought this video didn't really make much sense. It seemed a tad too stream-of-thought-y. But I definitely plan to look up and read your thesis. And if you do research on your new idea, I'd love to read that too.
In my experience, its less that you need to pass to be considered trans, but you need to pass in order to be considered "really" a guy or "really" a girl. Like some person can be trans sure whatever fine. But if they don't "try" to pass (do hormones surgery dress a certain way ect ect) then they must not really want to be that gender they must not really feel it. So ya. Seriously problematic. And even though I'm genderfluid and I try to be as open minded as possible, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I fall to that sometimes. Like sometimes someone will say that they're trans and I'll kinda think to myself like "oh they dont act trans" or whatever and like then ill mentally yell at myself but my point is that its defiantly not just a cis problem. No one should feel like they need to prove their gender identity.
yeah if you read the book genderqueer edited by Riki Wilchins brings home that point. I also read this amazing book which might scare the shit out of some people but I really appreciated the book n just reality of it cuz it's your right society not us anyways the book is called hidden in Plain sight by Zane. forget his last name. it's an autobiography. anyways you can tell by the title that's it definitely deals with issue of passing. I Don t have that luxury of passing. but yeah in an ideal world I Don t want to anyways. cuz for one thing I'm genderqueer.
I honestly hate the term passing for a few reasons. One because as you said it's this thing that people have that if you don't pass your not trans enough, or that you shouldn't be referred to correctly until you pass (my family did this with Caitlyn Jenner and it was disgusting). I also hate the term though simply because the word itself makes it seem as though trans people are trying to trick people about their gender (I hear this so often about people who pass and its really just horrible.) I think maybe if the term was phrased differently it would cause less problems, especially cause then people like me who want to pass or those who do pass don't feel guilty for how they present and others who don't/can't present in the 'passing' way don't get shamed for it.
I wish I could transition and I've been feeling super dysphoric lately but I can't come out for at least another 4 years because of my parents and the school I go to (an all girl school with a skirt as part of the uniform). All my friends know and are accepting and my hair is cool but I want to be able to pass so bad.
First off I want to say, I've watched two of your videos and am already in love with you!! Second, I completely agree with you! I will say, I'm a young trans boy and I want more than anything to "pass" that being said, I completely agree that trans people should not feel pressure from society to "pass" unless they really want to deep down...but like you said many times, society sucks dick!! I was having a conversion on Facebook recently about Caitlyn Jenner, and how she doesn't want SRS, and this cis lady could not for the life of her, wrap her head around this...she kept saying "well if he wants to keep his penis and he likes girls, isn't he straight?" And I'd say no, she is a lesbian and it's really none of your business what's in Caitlyn's pants....my point is, Caitlyn is a beautiful and courageous woman, who doesn't want to change her lower genitalia, and that should be ok, and it is, and it should be nobody's business, and it's not...but for some reason, society thinks it is their business, and they think she's not really a woman unless she changes every aspect of herself...which is fucking stupid!! My brother(who I'm out to) told me the other day that Caitlyn will never be a woman because of her hight and bone structure...which blew my mind...I have two cisgender female friends who are bigger and taller than most cisgender men I know...and I know a few cisgender men who are smaller than me...but I shouldn't even have to justify mine or Caitlyn's hight by comparing cisgender men and women...and hight doesn't make me any less of a man, nor does it make Caitlyn any less of a woman! So to sum up, I completely agree with you!!
I haven't done T or surgery. I find passing complex. I pass more than I would have expected cause I have a deeper voice for a AFAB person and I have a masculinish face. But I think one of the main reasons I pass is cause I wear masculine clothes. I'm actually very femme inside but I'm scared to dress in a femme way cause ill be misgendered. I'm not ready to medically change yet, but when I am as soon as I pass I will dress and act way more femme. Passing is so shit, we are who we are even without medical changes.
Hello. I watched this video for a class and though you're all over the place, lol, I totally get what you're are saying. The concept of passing as a construct created, defined, and policed by others into oneself is problematic bc it can have psychological effects on the individual. To me, the construct of "trans" is so new we don't have any parameters in place to thoroughly and effectively assist individuals. Therefore, it can be dangerous to force other to pass in order to identify or include them as members of mainstream society, and even worse the fringes of society. We are social creatures that need to belong to a group and preferably the group of our liking. JFYI I am a heterosexual, female, mother, and catholic...labels about "us" aren't favorable either. We, especially Catholics and Christians, get pigeonholed as well. Viewed as unloving, intolerant, and the like. I don't believe that's true. I am loving and tolerant because of my religion not despite it. Good luck with all your research!
Even though its nice (for me) to be able to be seen as male to others i don't really care because people i love and care about see me as who I am and they respect that-does that make sense i dont fucking know
I've never asked another person why they might not want to go on hormones. It's not a concept that I can imagine simply because of all the dysphoria I have with the feminine parts of my body. The gender dysphoria must still exist right? Even for someone who doesn't want hormones/surgeries? I'd love if someone could explain further if possible. I can imagine how rough that would be to be seen as a man if you're not being read as a man to the general public.
Hey Chase, I just recently came out as trans almost 5 months ago, and I have come to a point were I am getting misgendered even though I was referred to as male before I came out, and now I am at a point in my transition, were I am trying to prove myself as a male, exaggerating mannerisms, trying to be less emotional, and trying to decipher how to speak like a guy, and not say the wrong things? All confusing, I even had some people question if I am transgender, are you truely transgender, and they add an if and their explanation.
It's total bullshit, for the most part. "Passing" is just such a bad word for what it's supposed to convey especially since it implies that someone is trying to be something they aren't which isn't true. That said, being seen as the gender they identify as is so important for a lot of trans people. The first time someone referred to me as male in public I literally squealed in excitement. It's such a tricky thing to talk about, but I think you definitely did a good job exploring that.
great video chase! But it took me a while to get your point cause you were kind of all over the place and was a little confusing, maybe you could try and figure out beforehand what you wanna say so its not so confusing. But good video.
Hi. I'm pre T and here in sweden I sort off pass. I dont realy understand how its for my safty to pass, we dont have problems here whit violonce aginst trans-pepole like in USA or other countries. My biggest problem was yesterday at a bar in the restroom, the toilet didnt have any seat on it. I hade to chose to out myself or being creative. Solved the problem whit the peeing and avoid eyecontact whit the dudes in the line. Didnt feel unsafe at all. Realy sad thats trans-pepole cant feel safe like I do.
I don't think you are wrong, the word and concept of passing, and needing to be "passable" to be accepted as the gender you identify as IS problematic. I have a friend who is a trans-man, that hasn't had any surgeries and isn't taking hormone replacement, and he dresses in both feminine and masculine clothing. Quite a few of our friends refuse to call him a man until he "looks like a man". One even said that until he has a penis, he is still going to call him a "her".
I'm am a cis gai men and i want to do my master on the passing issues for non-binary trans people. 5:12, could you go there? :) I'm just asking because i think it's important for me to know theses issues if i want to engage in this kin of research. Thanx you, and thanx for your video!
Hey Chase, I know this is kind of off topic, but I'm 13 and I can't get a binder and I was wondering how I could bind my chest with out an actual binder?
If you have sports bras, use them. So use 2 if they are the correct size, or 1 if it's a bit small. This is what I used for a while, and it worked pretty well until I finally got a binder. Remember, if it hurts STOP IMMEDIATELY. The long term damage/risk is NOT worth it. Also never bind for more than 8 hours or overnight. It is safer to do this than to use tape/bandages, but do this at your own risk. I am not a qualified doctor.
Alex Bertie also has a video on binding (called FTM Binding) where he tells you how to make your own binder using a swimming costume (it's not very detailed, mind). Anyway, I wish you the best of luck and don't worry, it gets easier :)
I don't think you have to pass to use the label transgender because it's the way you feel and not the way you look since gender is different from gender expression and sex. I'm non binary gender fluid and sometimes I want to be able to pass because if not, everybody reminds me that I'm a female to society and it makes me really anxious. I didn't have a problem with my body until I understand people will never see me as who I am (mostly fluctuating between a neutral gender and male) and I can confirm that realizing this hurts. The worse is that in my language, EVERY word is gendered (like even the bed is masculine and the chair is feminine, like WHAT THE FUCK ???) and when you're talking every two words you can hear the gender of the person… and gender neutral pronouns/adjectives don't exist. English feels more comfortable because you can just change the pronouns for a gender neutral pronouns (xe/hir for me) and it becomes neutral. And of course, in my country almost no one knows about non binary genders. My situation is so complicated that using male pronouns/adjectives would be the only other option. I think a lot of dysphoria is triggered by society. If society would see you as a boy or a girl or a non binary person if you feel you are, independently from your body and clothes style, less people would want to pass (what would be passing anyway in a society were gender would be understood as different from appearance?). People in general are not enough educated on this subjects. My point is that it's ok not to want to pass and it is also ok to want to pass. You do you and you can use the label transgender no matter what as long as you feel it's who you are. I think you talking about such subjects is so important because we definitely have to discuss it, I love your videos. Anyway, I hope this text makes sense because english is not my mother tongue. We should respect every choice in transitioning or not transitioning.
But what would 'passing' be for genderfluid people? As of right now most people only see 2 genders!!! Sometimes I wish everyone assumed they/them pronouns rather than assuming someone's gender
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 76 | คู่เอก "ผึ้งหลวง vs สมิงดำ"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9SBshmGQOIM/mqdefault.jpg)
My sister has been telling me for months that she isnt going to recognize me as her brother until i look the part. so basically after i start T. I think its bull shit. I am a man regardless of how I look.
My brother tells me I'm gay yet I'm a straight trans guy. He also tell me that vagina=girl. Siblings are annoying af
my sister calls me straight yet im a gay trans guy. your right siblings suck. I took my first T shot a few hours ago. I cant wait to see her trip over my pronouns a few months from now
Alex Melton My mom said literally the same thing.
+emoriotfreak13 Well there will always be good and bad siblings. I'm blessed to have my sisters who both respect my name and pronouns as me being a transman. So I'm so sorry that your siblings aren't accepting but I'll pray [or hope if you aren't religious!] that your sister becomes supporting. Keep hope, dood! Things get better
I've been on t for 6 months now and she still gets mg pronouns wrong
I read part of a book that used the term "read"' rather then "passing" (i.e I was being read as male). I thought it was quite clever.
Eagleironic That distinction is interesting.
yeah I use this terminology and like it much better! for example: Chase is usually read as male. meaning, most people see he him and think "that's a man". this phrasing takes the responsibility of presentation off of the trans person and puts it on to the viewer. our bodies are not a pass/fail tests; we are not responsible for people's perception of our gender.
I thought so too, Probablyasonglyric explained it quite well.writerofbaddreams If your interested the book was called "the nearest exit may be behind you" I can't remember who by though).
*****
ah thank you :)!
YES. Yes yes yes. This is a zillion times better than "passing" and means pretty much the same thing, without most of the nasty connotations highlighted by Chase here and +probablyasonglyric above. And I feel like this is especially important for non-binary folks, who don't usually want to "pass" as either male or female, at least not in the gender-affirming way that "passing" usually means.
This is something I have discussed for 15 Years at guest lectures for counseling and psychology students. You touched on a lot and I was so hoping your were about to say THE MOST TOXIC ASPECT OF PASSING IS IT OPPOSITE FAILING. Transgender and 3rd gender experiences are not meant to be tests, with cis-gender report cards to work and study harder for gender validation. Imagine saying to somebody with facial and or body deformity (I am not going to accept you as = until you stop looking deformed. Yes I know you have been working on your disability for years, but we cant accept you into the umbrella of our family until you pass as normal. ) How do you think the general population would react to that ?
As a trans guy who has been out for almost a decade but still binds and hasn't had hormone therapy, this video really speaks to my experience. There is a hierarchy of trans people within the LGBT community, which incorporates passing (as well as things like race, ability, weight, etc). There is something so unnervingly superficial about the notion of passing, and it really makes non-passing trans people's lives hell.
I wonder if you've read "Nobody Passes: Rejecting the Rules of Gender and Conformity". It's a really great read that confronts the issues of passing from many different personal contexts.
I know this is an old video, but I feel like the most problematic aspect of "passing" is the assumption that ONLY trans people pass or don't pass. The assumption is that cis people just ARE, but I've known personally cis non-intersex heterosexual people who did not or at least did not always "pass" as their gender.
The assumption that only trans people can pass or not is based on the fact that society bases its passing/not passing standards on cis people. But cis women also have a variety of body types, sizes, body hair, etc and the same is true for cis men.
As a trans guy who doesn't "pass" or get read as a guy often, who is very femme and who is often mistaken as a cis straight women instead of a queer man of any sort, I guess the biggest issue of the concept of passing is that it is assuming you pass for being cis as well as passing for the gender you actually are.
vampyresmiles713 preach!!
I agree 100%, passing is important to me for safety reasons but it's ridiculous how many times I've seen people say that you aren't really trans if you don't pass. I think it's important for trans people who don't "pass" to be visible within the community because not everyone's transition must include passing
Honestly passing in public is the whole reason for transitioning whether you do it medically with surgery or hormones or just physically changing to present more as the gender that you feel inside. When you go somewhere, anywhere and you get called the gender that you are presenting you are passing. And for many trans people passing feels really good, especially when they are used to bein recognized as the gender that they are presenting. And lots of time being trans passing does mean that you don't act the way you would at home sometimes you have to assimilate therefore passing as something you aren't. It's sad.
I completely agree. I only recently realized that I am trans, and I can't help feeling like I have to transition whether I want to or not.(I do want to transition, the point is I fell like I don´t have a choice, if I want to be accepted as trans)
I completely agree, and I'm glad you talked about this. I hate that people who don't want to, or people who physically or financially can't afford to medically transition have to risk physical and verbal abuse.
This is such an important topic and I'm so glad that you made this video, thank you so so much! There are so many aspects of passing and I can understand that is a safety/happiness issue for some people, but the whole societal structures behind it are just really fucked up.
I'm pre everything and still look very feminin. Even if I try really really hard I will certainly not pass before I go on hormones. And the thought of not passing, of not being recognized as a guy because to other people I look feminine and therefore must be feminine freaks me out so so much. I'm kind of sure I wouldn't even care to make myself look more masculine with haircuts and clothes if I could just be taken seriously as a guy even with a female looking body. It's just such a pressure point really, and I'm so happy that you talked about this. Thanks again, you are amazing and I'll always be stoked for more videos from you :)
I am genderfluid but when I am feeling more masculine I definitely don't pass...I have a very feminine face and voice and sometimes I feel like I'm invalid because of it. But this made me feel so much better cuz even when I don't pass, I am still a male. So thank you ^_^
Um what lol how am I mentally ill
Have a think about it. I mean a long, deep and honest reflection. What is it about the way you are and how you see the world that differs vastly from the norm? And does this mode of thinking introduce stress and negativity into your life that wouldn't otherwise be there?
If you can do this honestly, and go on to receive professional help, you will start to become more happy and well-adjusted in yourself.
Be well.
You're crazy cuz there is absolutely nothing wrong with being genderfluid, bro
wibblegorm Wow! you would say that... lol but for real tho if all the stress and negativity is caused by society, then I think it's our society that needs help.
Thank you for this video. It's an important topic.
I hate trying to pass, I despise it, but I try, and, pre-everything, I tend to only pass sometimes so I've been waiting desperately to go on T (I'm an FtM). I recently went to a place in which everyone was trans. I was there for a bit, and felt so much more comfortable, I didn't feel the need to rush to pass. I realized that the main reason I'm so eager to pass so fast, is so that other people in cisioty will see me as male. It's just such a screwed up idea, but I, and so many other people, follow it.
(This is just my experience, and not to say that everyone tries to pass mostly for cisioty.)
I like it when people say I pass. I know it sounds bad but it is my choice to look like a cisgender, masculine man. Cisgender doesn't mean masculine but most cis guys are masculine. If I looked feminine but called myself male, there would be no point in me going on T and getting surgery.
this needs to be talked about more you rock
For me personally it's super important to pass in public because when people call me by female pronouns / words it just makes me so uncomfortable and self-conscious. Especially when I have a day where I feel confident in my masculinity it just makes me feel so depressed when someone assumes I'm female. But like, if someone were to tell me "You're not trans because you don't pass" I'd probably facepalm myself into space. That's just as bad as saying "You're not trans because you're not on hormones."
the problem with passing is that it assumes that all trans people want to be cis people, or the cis version of their identity. im a trans guy, and i personally have ZERO interest in ever being a cis guy. its cool if people think i am, but its not something im actively trying to achieve. i am only interested in making my body/presentation comfortable for myself, not in order to be read as male 100% of the time.
I personally don't pass 90% of the time., and it really sucks, but getting to watch your videos and hearing your opinions on these important topics is so inspiring Chase. You're an amazing guy and a true inspiration.
I think that if with the way you want to transition, you want to pass, then you should totally strive for it, but if you don't care or want to then you don't have to. Everyone should be able to do whatever they want without getting shit on, you know?
TW: cisnormativity/transphobia
There is so much wrong about this ... it's like we don't fit in with society and gender/sex norms in the first place, but we're supposed to try fixing it apparently. So if we don't put (enough) effort into "passing", society is basically like "You don't wanna be cis? What's wrong with you - don't you know noone would want to be like you, so TRANS??!"
This is sooo important!
Agreed ^_^
Disagreed.
You are so awesome !!! I am freakin glad that you think 'passing' is this horrible expectation of society to trans people and it absolutely sucks. As a non-binary genderqueer individual especially. Presenting feminine but feeling very masculine most of the time f.e. is such a problem bc if people do not see that you are anyhow trying to pass or whatever they often assume your identity isn't really valid.
Thank you for making this video, i havent been able to put this to words forever.
I agree with what you said here very much so. Passing has become important to me on and off as I have a lot of social dysphoria and safety. I've gotten to the point though where at least some of the time it doesn't get to me or I don't see it as important because overall I'm pretty content and comfortable. I do find it discusting though that the concept of passing is the end all be all and "proof" of "true transness." Society should shh. I experience it with society as a whole, but also more personally. Until I "stop being a girl", quite a few of my family members won't respect my identity.
great video chase. I've had a lot of personal experience with discrimination because I don't "pass" as male, and for a long time early in my transition, I obsessed over "passing" and I thought that I wouldn't be happy until I did. Even my parents, my father mostly, didn't accept me as male until he found out that transguys could "pass" as male. I remember showing him videos of transguys talking about their transition and him saying "wow, you would never know he was a female." and whatnot. then he seemed to be like "okay, my son will actually look like a son one day." its fucked up because societies concept of male and female is so skewed, and to be accepted as the trans you have to be "cis passing". An iconic tweet from Matt McGorry is so important: "Let us remember that Caitlyn (Jenner) and other trans folks' value shouldn't be valued on how much they look 'convincingly cisgender'." AMEN
my problem is i dont feel as though i'll look masculine enough in society's eyes for people to see me as a male, and its stopping me from coming out
My problem with passing is that as a non-binary person, while I have transitioned already I will never actually "pass", people will just assume in male or female depending on what I'm wearing.
I often feel like you are blabbering, yet making tottaly sense. I agree with basically everything you just said, skrew sociaty
I'm non binary (agender), so it's not really possible for me to "pass", but I feel more comfortable looking "like a guy" than "like a girl". Usually people assume I'm a guy even though I'm afab and am not on T (I'm a teenager so it's plausible for me to look like a 13-year-old boy), but my voice is really high, so after I say something, people usually just look confused.
I think society and individuals are all in an upheaval as we as a whole learn what words to use, what concepts we are trying to explain and discuss, and what was ok a yr ago .. has shifted, changed, and words have changed and shifted..
and we go from saying and talking about one thing.. but we may mean .. something else.. as we evolve.. evolve.. in words, concepts, and keep talking!
keep talking about all of this!!
Great job..
I agree!! Obviously the first time a trans person 'passes' in a stranger's eyes they're gonna be excited to finally be recognised as their authentic gender without having it questioned, but the whole concept of 'passing' can be so so so damaging to those who can not, or choose not to, transition medically! Great video x
That rang very true with me. i know that people won't accept me as male until I start 'passing' which makes my life feel like a living hell right now.
I totally agree. I, personally, don't care if I always 'pass' because while yes, it's painful to be misgendered, it's pretty hard not to be if you're androgynous (for me, at least). I want to transition, but it's for my own comfort rather than my ability to 'pass.' Anyone who tells me that I'm not trans because I don't look like a guy doesn't matter to me.
Totally agree with you... "passing" is only truly important at all because of the safety aspect, and the only reason it's ever necessary for safety is because society as a whole doesn't understand or respect gender as the spectrum that it is. I prefer the term "stealth" because although it's really very similar in concept to "passing," it's more conscious of the fact that the only reason it's brought up is that some of us are basically pretending to be cis in a society that still sees cis as the norm (whether we do so consciously or just fall into it because if society's assumptions based on appearances).
I envy those with the ability to be stealth because of the freedom that privilege offers, and I'll admit it's my goal. Sometimes it's hard to figure whether I'm being true to the way I want to look and present, or if I'm being shallow and cowardly and succumbing to society's gender binary... but I definitely think it's ok for someone to want to be stealth whether for safety or personal expression. We are all our own person living our own lives after all, so we aren't any more or less of anything no matter how we appear.
Trans people who don't have the goal to be stealth (whether they don't want to pass or can't) are so brave and so intuitive to their own selves, since they are true to themselves regardless of society and safety. They're gender heroes! It's so disgusting that anyone would think they're not trans enough just because they don't happen to fit perfectly into the arbitrary binary.
The thing that really sucks about most of my family is that they won't "see" me as trans unless I "pass". It makes me so sad and every time they misgender me or call me by the wrong name I get so much dysphoria and I have to lock myself up in my room.
I feel like 'passing' is a arbitrary word that came into play when society and some trans individuals needed a term for those who were able to blend in, not stand out, and to mesh into a hetero normative "norm". Which is flawed in many ways; due to its profound and constant bashing into ignorant people the beauty standards for men and women. What both look like and how to identity between the two. I honestly have no clue whether I am visibly trans or passable, sometimes I care for safety and sometimes I don't cause i have bills to pay and i could give no shits lol.
Passing i feel is a failsafe term for those who feel like they should have a 'goal' *again my opinion*, and it should be hastened. When in fact most 'passable' men and women did it by taking their time.
The last fault to 'passing' is for the older transistioners. Don't need to say much but yah.. Passing is such a weigh-able thought that needs to be shut down and we need to tell ourselves to embrace who we are, and that we need reminding that the beneficial outcome WILL COME IN TIME.
What are your thoughts?
btw love the vids ! new subbie
People also seem to assume that by going on hormones, your ultimate goal is to "pass" as male or female. I mostly identify as male, but I love looking androgynous. A huge reason why I went on T was so I could put on makeup and more flamboyant clothes and still be read as androgynous.
I don't get to talk about these things with many people either. You're not alone :)
Judgemental people have such a complicated way of thinking, i never get it. Just live and let live, have compassion, be understanding, give as much love as you can. I accept people for who they are. I dont care if your have breasts, a beard, a penis or a vagina, or all or them at the same time. Your soul is whats important, what I truly care about. And Chase, yours shines through my ipad screen!
I was feeling very dysphoric today so I went and bought myself some tracksuit bottoms from the boys section because I had to wear a skirt for PE
This video is awesome. Thank you for your kind words. I feel that if we were friends, you would be the one I could tell everything without jugdment.
Great thesis. I shared it with my best friend who has struggled with this concept even before coming out as trans. Your videos are extremely informational; even for cis friends/family/partners. Thank you.
In this video, uppercaseCHASE1 demonstrates the synergy of being petty and pretentiousness simultaneously.
I am a member of the physically disabled community. In the disabled context we have a similar issue. Society has this idea that the goal for someone that has a disability is to become the “ideal able-body form.” Similar to how Passing is the ideal given by society for the Tans community.
I personally use both forearm crutches and a manual wheelchair. It takes way too long to travel long distances using my crutches, so I use my wheelchair for longer distances. Yet people that have seen me using my crutches then later see me in my wheelchair have a reaction of “disappoint or of sadness.” In their eyes I have gotten more “disabled,” since I’m now sitting instead of standing, which is further away from the “ideal abled-body form.” That line of thinking is untrue, since I have the same level of disability as I had the last time we met yet now I’m just using a different tool.
Society has this idea that disabled people need operations and need to be “fixed” or overcome their disability to be accepted. Personally I really dislike operations, and try to avoid them. My body does not need them to be acceptable to myself. I will most likely never reach this “ideal able-body form,” and that is okay.
It took me years to accept this and watching your videos over the past couple years have really helped me find a sense of concord/understanding in regards to my own disabled body. Since many of your video are about accepting your own body in the context of a society that does not. So Thank-you. (geez that is so corny and this post is way too long)
this is so helpful , I can finally explain my friends and family. Thank you !
You're so right oh my god. I talk to people about the fact that I'm trans and they always talk about passing. I wasn't sure what it meant, but it's finally clear to me. It's wrong, like- seriously wrong. You cant label someone as Trans on if they 'pass' or not. It's how that person feels! Gosh..
you rock dude love your videos you're really helping a lot of people out there, keep going ! :)
I have had "passing privilege" through out my entire transition. I haven't even gone on hormones yet or been able to legally change my name. (I'm too broke for it all.) It is ridiculous that society thinks that if you don't look the part then you can't be the part. I have a best friend who is openly non-binary and everyone still calls them "him" or by their legal name because they haven't changed it yet. I just think it's ridiculous. If someone informs you of who they are then that needs to be respects. As for the word "transgendered", I have not heard a word that inflicts so many feelings and emotions from me. I want to set anyone who uses that word on fire because it is the dumbest thing ever and the word itself makes me cringe so hard! I don't know what the point of this rant comment was but I hope it adds to the topic some how? Have a delicious day if you read this entire comment.
this video is incredibly validating, thank you x
I totally agree. About half of my dysphoria, if not more, comes not from inside but from the outside. I haven't started T and have a feminine figure and I'm read as "female" all the damn time. I never hated my body as much as I do since I started trying to live as a guy. I'm not even sure if I want to go on a "full" dose of T or get top surgery ect. but I feel like I have to - I can't even change my gender marker in my state without some medical intervention! It's utterly ridiculous and so damaging, it makes me sick.
I realize that this video is rather old, but I'm just so glad I found it. For a long time i had been postponing the idea i could be trans. I would always identify as agender, just from the fear that. "What if im just not.. 'Passable'" or if the way I would want to transition passed of as trans. This has been going on for years and it wasn't until this year that I finally decided to dwell on the topic. Still being referred to as a female really.. Hurt. I would say it was okay, but being called by my birthname really stung. I had always been afraid to tell people Im trans, or identify as a male from just being scared nobody would take me seriously. I have no trans friends here, I dont know where to look on the internet for people to help me out with this, it just feels like a lonely journey. I was constantly held with self-doubt that I just wouldnt be good enough, or I wouldnt suffice to be a man. This video was like a push to coming to terms to who I am, and want to be.
I've been actively "living as" male (whatever that means) for two years now but because I don't pass my coworkers still use female pronouns even though they all know I'm trans and none of them ever knew me pretransition. Even the other trans guy I work with calls me "ma'am" and "missy" because he just does not see me as male. Very rarely do I ever get read as such and it's pretty detrimental to my mental health.
Every time I leave the house alone or use a public bathroom I have the fear that I may be assaulted for being trans.
I used to have very little confidence to tell people I'm trans or to tell people how to call me and correct them. I always thought that until I get hormones no one could take me seriously, and it was horrible. Every time I go out I have to worry about passing, and I mostly tell myself that I'm not, but if I'm not I don't wanna know.
The whole concept is ridiculous, but people are so used to the gender binary that there is literally no other way right now than to endure it. But I think it damaged me a bit to know that I will only get taken seriously once I look male (even though some people think I'm male but look feminine, and that's also ridiculous, cause it shows that everyone's perception of gender is different) but since I've got my t letter I feel much more confident, even though I'm not on t yet. I just feel so much better already, knowing I'm gonna have something I've wanted for years, and that kinda shows that it's not only about passing for me. Cause honestly, whoever tells me I'm not male now can go suck it.
You are so right. Passing is problematic concept. However it is something that a lot of us strive for because it is what we need - - we need others to be able to see us as our true selves. It is one of the many reasons that waiting for hormones sucks. Without passing privilege, I personally feel stuck, truly in between and its torture. I knew my mind is male but everywhere I go I must take my body and my body being female, betrays me. I'm just an agonizing wait away from my Doctor's final approval to start T. When changes start to happen & my true self is finally revealed I won't look at it as passing, but Evolving. I desperately want the female bodied me to be extinct, so I can be free of that. The pressure from ourselves to transition is hard enough as is; trans people don 't need the pressure to act/look a certain way from society. However, for now, it is what we must do if we wish to live comfortably in cis-normative society. I want a trans-normative society!
Chase didn't mention this in the video, but I think the biggest issue about the concept of passing is that it's completely cis centered. Passing = trans that looks cis enough, trans that is perceived as cis. It's the same thing when a cis person says "but you don't even look trans!" - insinuating that a trans person's main goal should be to achieve perceived "cisness" is an act of transphobia. It's saying that "looking trans" is undesirable, something people should stay away from.
Interesting enough, if society didn't label being transgender as a bad thing, the concept of passing wouldn't even make sense in the first place. People would respect your gender regardless of your looks, so there's no pressure to pass. A trans male who looks completely like a cis female? A trans male who look completely like a cis male? A trans male who look like neither - or both?? All cool! People would respect you based on what you say, and not solely on your looks.
Please note that what I'm pointing out is something done by society, by the outside. A trans person who willingly wants to look cis is completely ok, it's society pushing the concept of looking cis as ideal that's not.
It's not what a trans person feels like they should look like, it's what our cissexist society wants them to look like. That's what defines passing, and that's why it can be so harmful.
Honestly I agree with you but the reason I want to pass is so that society will see me and accept me and refer to me as the gender that I feel
That really makes me think. I'm pre t but I've technically passed since I was a kid. Everyone always thought I was a little boy. So I've never really had to deal with not passing. And being a very masculine, very typical male, I don't understand the issues with being "too feminine to be trans". And I want to fully change everything legally and physically too male. So I can't imagine how it can be to not be seen as "not trans enough or not male enough." If anything I'm to the point of surpassing trans to wanting to be just a regular guy.
But yeah passing does seem problematic. That if your not enough of a guy that your just generically queer. Or god forbid "butch". That's got to be rough. I feel for yall.
This was my masters in public health thesis. Let me know if you want to chat.
I pass without hormones well to strangers if I wear a binder however my friend who has been trying to pass for nearly a year now has had no success and has even been called the t slur when he had to explain what gender he was. This is really problematic because he's in danger every single time that he gets misgendered and has to explain as well as it not allowing him to transition comfortably the way he wants to. It just pisses me off that he has to live up to society's standards in order to be seen as trans and transitioning and he has to present as the expectation of the gender he feels physically as well as mentally.
i also HATE society and its view, its really not fair on trans people and it sickens me that society is so wrapped up in its own view its too blinded by it to relise that they are wrong, i agree with you 100%. i love your videos.
peach brother :D
8:51 - 8:53 NEEDS TO BE A GIF 😂😂 Id use it so much
I am definitely a trans man that is in the middle of the road. I will some days get male pronouns, and other days get female pronouns, from strangers. It's so frustrating. And the I'll ask my cis friends, "Hey what do you think I could do to pass better? Because at the moment, I feel like shit because nobody is acknowledging which gender I'm trying to put out there." There have been times where I have been kicked out of women's rooms, men's rooms, stores, even grocery stores because people are unsure of my gender. Once I was in a Rite Aid buying some sewing needles, sewing pins, and thread; I overheard a sales woman and a male customer saying "I'm not sure what a thing like that is doing in this store," and "I don't know what IT wants," while they were gesturing to me and pointing at me. Women, on my good passing days, have hit me with their purses, have covered their children's eyes as I walk past them, and have done many other things. And then it's like, oh well, I don't pass enough to go into the men's room, and I pass too well to go into the women's room. So ,as much as my cis friends advise me to "do my own thing," and to "fuck the societal norms," and to "not care what others think," there's a huge problem with that. Because to feel like myself, I need to pass. I need other people to acknowledge my gender.I need to have that recognition of being male. It also doesn't help that my parents won't accept that I am male, and every time that I am out with my dad and we see someone, he will say "Hi, this is my daughter." So now, where I live, my dad is an administrator of the local school, so I introduce myself and everyone will say. "Oh! You're Mr. So and So's daughter!!" And I feel like this wouldn't be an issue if I passed. Then they wouldn't see a girl and associate me with him. So, I sometimes pass, but mostly don't.
I agree with everything you said, which doesn't always happen. So, that's good I guess.
This also affects nb folks as well. Since there's not really a concept/stereotype of an nb person, we can't really pass ever. Especially if you're femme, since the closest thing to a stereotype of nbs is a dab transmasculine person. It sucks.
I love this channel so much! I'm obsessed your so helpful and omg your so handsome!
I don't hate the term. It's useful. But the fact that it needs to exist in our society is what I hate.
Ever thought of doing a discussion group about it? Like around a coffee? Astteq holds meeting every monday night, maybe they could be of any help? I'm throwing ideas here.
I thought this video didn't really make much sense. It seemed a tad too stream-of-thought-y. But I definitely plan to look up and read your thesis. And if you do research on your new idea, I'd love to read that too.
In my experience, its less that you need to pass to be considered trans, but you need to pass in order to be considered "really" a guy or "really" a girl. Like some person can be trans sure whatever fine. But if they don't "try" to pass (do hormones surgery dress a certain way ect ect) then they must not really want to be that gender they must not really feel it. So ya. Seriously problematic.
And even though I'm genderfluid and I try to be as open minded as possible, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I fall to that sometimes. Like sometimes someone will say that they're trans and I'll kinda think to myself like "oh they dont act trans" or whatever and like then ill mentally yell at myself but my point is that its defiantly not just a cis problem. No one should feel like they need to prove their gender identity.
My boyfriend and I have been trying to get me to pass as male, due to my abnormally low voice it was quite easy to pass. can't wait till I get on T!
I've heard "blending" used, as in blending with cis people of your gender so you're indistinguishable from them
yeah if you read the book genderqueer edited by Riki Wilchins brings home that point. I also read this amazing book which might scare the shit out of some people but I really appreciated the book n just reality of it cuz it's your right society not us anyways the book is called hidden in Plain sight by Zane. forget his last name. it's an autobiography. anyways you can tell by the title that's it definitely deals with issue of passing. I Don t have that luxury of passing. but yeah in an ideal world I Don t want to anyways. cuz for one thing I'm genderqueer.
I honestly hate the term passing for a few reasons. One because as you said it's this thing that people have that if you don't pass your not trans enough, or that you shouldn't be referred to correctly until you pass (my family did this with Caitlyn Jenner and it was disgusting). I also hate the term though simply because the word itself makes it seem as though trans people are trying to trick people about their gender (I hear this so often about people who pass and its really just horrible.) I think maybe if the term was phrased differently it would cause less problems, especially cause then people like me who want to pass or those who do pass don't feel guilty for how they present and others who don't/can't present in the 'passing' way don't get shamed for it.
I wish I could transition and I've been feeling super dysphoric lately but I can't come out for at least another 4 years because of my parents and the school I go to (an all girl school with a skirt as part of the uniform). All my friends know and are accepting and my hair is cool but I want to be able to pass so bad.
First off I want to say, I've watched two of your videos and am already in love with you!! Second, I completely agree with you! I will say, I'm a young trans boy and I want more than anything to "pass" that being said, I completely agree that trans people should not feel pressure from society to "pass" unless they really want to deep down...but like you said many times, society sucks dick!! I was having a conversion on Facebook recently about Caitlyn Jenner, and how she doesn't want SRS, and this cis lady could not for the life of her, wrap her head around this...she kept saying "well if he wants to keep his penis and he likes girls, isn't he straight?" And I'd say no, she is a lesbian and it's really none of your business what's in Caitlyn's pants....my point is, Caitlyn is a beautiful and courageous woman, who doesn't want to change her lower genitalia, and that should be ok, and it is, and it should be nobody's business, and it's not...but for some reason, society thinks it is their business, and they think she's not really a woman unless she changes every aspect of herself...which is fucking stupid!! My brother(who I'm out to) told me the other day that Caitlyn will never be a woman because of her hight and bone structure...which blew my mind...I have two cisgender female friends who are bigger and taller than most cisgender men I know...and I know a few cisgender men who are smaller than me...but I shouldn't even have to justify mine or Caitlyn's hight by comparing cisgender men and women...and hight doesn't make me any less of a man, nor does it make Caitlyn any less of a woman! So to sum up, I completely agree with you!!
I haven't done T or surgery. I find passing complex. I pass more than I would have expected cause I have a deeper voice for a AFAB person and I have a masculinish face. But I think one of the main reasons I pass is cause I wear masculine clothes. I'm actually very femme inside but I'm scared to dress in a femme way cause ill be misgendered. I'm not ready to medically change yet, but when I am as soon as I pass I will dress and act way more femme.
Passing is so shit, we are who we are even without medical changes.
I wish I had a trans friend to talk about my situation. Or like you said to rant about it.
lets just all say 'passing as cisgender' when we want to talk abt the concept of passing, I hate when I hear just the word 'passing' in convo.
Hello. I watched this video for a class and though you're all over the place, lol, I totally get what you're are saying. The concept of passing as a construct created, defined, and policed by others into oneself is problematic bc it can have psychological effects on the individual. To me, the construct of "trans" is so new we don't have any parameters in place to thoroughly and effectively assist individuals. Therefore, it can be dangerous to force other to pass in order to identify or include them as members of mainstream society, and even worse the fringes of society. We are social creatures that need to belong to a group and preferably the group of our liking. JFYI I am a heterosexual, female, mother, and catholic...labels about "us" aren't favorable either. We, especially Catholics and Christians, get pigeonholed as well. Viewed as unloving, intolerant, and the like. I don't believe that's true. I am loving and tolerant because of my religion not despite it. Good luck with all your research!
"You don't need to pass to be trans"
Even though its nice (for me) to be able to be seen as male to others i don't really care because people i love and care about see me as who I am and they respect that-does that make sense i dont fucking know
I've never asked another person why they might not want to go on hormones. It's not a concept that I can imagine simply because of all the dysphoria I have with the feminine parts of my body. The gender dysphoria must still exist right? Even for someone who doesn't want hormones/surgeries? I'd love if someone could explain further if possible.
I can imagine how rough that would be to be seen as a man if you're not being read as a man to the general public.
Hey Chase, I just recently came out as trans almost 5 months ago, and I have come to a point were I am getting misgendered even though I was referred to as male before I came out, and now I am at a point in my transition, were I am trying to prove myself as a male, exaggerating mannerisms, trying to be less emotional, and trying to decipher how to speak like a guy, and not say the wrong things? All confusing, I even had some people question if I am transgender, are you truely transgender, and they add an if and their explanation.
It's total bullshit, for the most part. "Passing" is just such a bad word for what it's supposed to convey especially since it implies that someone is trying to be something they aren't which isn't true. That said, being seen as the gender they identify as is so important for a lot of trans people. The first time someone referred to me as male in public I literally squealed in excitement. It's such a tricky thing to talk about, but I think you definitely did a good job exploring that.
I hope that you do write on that other topic as you said you might I'd be very interested to read it.
great video chase! But it took me a while to get your point cause you were kind of all over the place and was a little confusing, maybe you could try and figure out beforehand what you wanna say so its not so confusing. But good video.
I literally just watched your dysphoria during sex video and you were wearing the same shirt
I basically look like a thirteen year old boy irony I'm 13
Hi. I'm pre T and here in sweden I sort off pass. I dont realy understand how its for my safty to pass, we dont have problems here whit violonce aginst trans-pepole like in USA or other countries. My biggest problem was yesterday at a bar in the restroom, the toilet didnt have any seat on it. I hade to chose to out myself or being creative.
Solved the problem whit the peeing and avoid eyecontact whit the dudes in the line. Didnt feel unsafe at all. Realy sad thats trans-pepole cant feel safe like I do.
Do you think it's easier to "pass" when you're younger ? Like, teen. I just really need know about this ayy
I don't think you are wrong, the word and concept of passing, and needing to be "passable" to be accepted as the gender you identify as IS problematic. I have a friend who is a trans-man, that hasn't had any surgeries and isn't taking hormone replacement, and he dresses in both feminine and masculine clothing. Quite a few of our friends refuse to call him a man until he "looks like a man". One even said that until he has a penis, he is still going to call him a "her".
I'm am a cis gai men and i want to do my master on the passing issues for non-binary trans people. 5:12, could you go there? :)
I'm just asking because i think it's important for me to know theses issues if i want to engage in this kin of research. Thanx you, and thanx for your video!
Hey Chase, I know this is kind of off topic, but I'm 13 and I can't get a binder and I was wondering how I could bind my chest with out an actual binder?
If you have sports bras, use them. So use 2 if they are the correct size, or 1 if it's a bit small. This is what I used for a while, and it worked pretty well until I finally got a binder.
Remember, if it hurts STOP IMMEDIATELY. The long term damage/risk is NOT worth it. Also never bind for more than 8 hours or overnight.
It is safer to do this than to use tape/bandages, but do this at your own risk. I am not a qualified doctor.
Alex Bertie also has a video on binding (called FTM Binding) where he tells you how to make your own binder using a swimming costume (it's not very detailed, mind).
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck and don't worry, it gets easier :)
I don't think you have to pass to use the label transgender because it's the way you feel and not the way you look since gender is different from gender expression and sex.
I'm non binary gender fluid and sometimes I want to be able to pass because if not, everybody reminds me that I'm a female to society and it makes me really anxious. I didn't have a problem with my body until I understand people will never see me as who I am (mostly fluctuating between a neutral gender and male) and I can confirm that realizing this hurts. The worse is that in my language, EVERY word is gendered (like even the bed is masculine and the chair is feminine, like WHAT THE FUCK ???) and when you're talking every two words you can hear the gender of the person… and gender neutral pronouns/adjectives don't exist. English feels more comfortable because you can just change the pronouns for a gender neutral pronouns (xe/hir for me) and it becomes neutral. And of course, in my country almost no one knows about non binary genders. My situation is so complicated that using male pronouns/adjectives would be the only other option.
I think a lot of dysphoria is triggered by society. If society would see you as a boy or a girl or a non binary person if you feel you are, independently from your body and clothes style, less people would want to pass (what would be passing anyway in a society were gender would be understood as different from appearance?). People in general are not enough educated on this subjects. My point is that it's ok not to want to pass and it is also ok to want to pass. You do you and you can use the label transgender no matter what as long as you feel it's who you are.
I think you talking about such subjects is so important because we definitely have to discuss it, I love your videos.
Anyway, I hope this text makes sense because english is not my mother tongue. We should respect every choice in transitioning or not transitioning.
transparency... baddum tshhh
But what would 'passing' be for genderfluid people? As of right now most people only see 2 genders!!! Sometimes I wish everyone assumed they/them pronouns rather than assuming someone's gender
ur rlly cool and i lov u
Cis-ciety
Thank u
You kinda remind me of my ex boyfriend, and he was very attractive so..