3 Things to Know Before Buying a
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ธ.ค. 2022
- Merry Christmas Everybody!
Here’s the thing; I would totally still buy this CNC plasma table all over again, but this video covers three things I really wish I had known going in. And if you’re considering this #CNCPlasmaCutter, knowing these three things will certainly improve your overall experience. And with respect, there are also a couple of things that I feel Langmuir Systems could easily improve upon…should they happen to be watching.
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Being a small business owner, your video is well played, for stating your negative experience with the product without completely bashing them! I just bought a used Langmuir table and have high hopes that it will help me grow my company. Picking it up next week and super exited.
Thanks @gerberdesigns1949. I wish you the best luck. I’ve been battling this thing for 46 days straight without much luck. I haven’t wanted to post a follow up until I know I can say something objective, and not bash these guys. Their customer service has been “pretty good” overall, and I think that the issues I’ve been having have to be at least somewhat rare. Anyway, my only concern for you is that a lot of the ones you see for sale are from people who couldn’t get their table to work. The other scenario is usually because somebody moves to a bigger/better machine. Hopefully whoever is selling the one you bought is in the latter category. Let me know if you have trouble. I’ve learned a lot in the last 46 days trouble-shooting this thing. And I’m hoping I will have all of the issue resolved soon. The potential with these things is HUGE!
Thank you for posting this video.. all the support brother for speaking up about those few "things" ... keep posting and we will keep watching 👀 🙂 and good luck for everyone 👍
That’s Zack, I super appreciate the support!
Nothing but respect for the honest feedback. Thanks you
You’re welcome. I ended up having nothing but problems, and after two solid months of tinkering, I finally have it working. New video coming soon.
I am also in the market for a plasma table to expand my small business and never buy a product without a ton of research, so far I’ve only had one issue with my Axiom CNC Router and it’s been in service for 5+ years, a proximity sensor went bad. I’ve had my Thunder Laser for nearly 3 years and have had minimal issues. Both have amazing forums/groups/online & phone support. I was really hoping Langmuir would turn out to be the same, but I guess not. I don’t like having to tinker on my machines, I just want them to work. There are a number of USA based companies with similar pricing. I would encourage others to do the research before purchasing something like this. Thank you for the video!
If you think this is bad, you should go look up my ~800 post thread on their website; they did ultimately take care of me, and the machine has worked great since, but what a process to get there...
Excellent video. Most definitely a need for more people being transparent on their experiences. Thanks for doing this. As they say timing is everything. I did not see this video until today 2/21/23. I purchased my crossfire pro at the beginning of January. I had almost an identical experience as you. The difference was I got two right hand lower rail tubes. Due to the delays I finally got to make my first cut this past Saturday.
Awesome! That first cut is pretty exciting. I hope the table works well for you. I have had nothing but trouble with mine. 44 days of banging my head against a wall, and no closer to actually being able to use it than I was when I started. 🙄
Thanks for posting this sir! I’m going to get a Langmuir plasma cutter as well, but it’s nice knowing this ahead of time.
I’m glad you found it helpful. If you’re planning on a fab table, stay tuned for a video on those real soon!
Thanks for posting this. Im sure its a great product but I will not give my money to a company who is deleting comments from customers who are having issues. I dont care how quickly their customer service resolves the issue. Its also a shame that you need to walk on egg shells for fear of being censored on their forum. This is a huge problem in our society and I refuse to deliberately fund it.
Thanks for your comment. This idea has been a catalyst of many conversations that I have had. And sadly, a few lost friendships as well. An idea I heard recently is to be steadfast in your convictions, but open with your opinions. A delicate balance, but a sound philosophy.
If I may add one piece of information for your own personal calculus, neither here nor there really, but Langmuir has since been purchased by Shop Sabre, and some of their “service” aspects have reportedly improved. Typically “buy-outs” result in cost/quality reduction, but perhaps this is a rare exception. Regardless, it is difficult to find a better value in capability than these machine’s provide for a small shop, and capability leads to our own success.
Good video! I understand. I have a XR table and It had a 3 month + lead time . I t arrived packaged excellent! There was no missing part and assembled very nicely. It does require mechanical aptitude for sure! I gave myself 3 months just to understand the CAD software to even begin cutting. I have owned it for a year now and has been awesome! It is a game changer and found many TH-cam videos that helped enormously. Highly recommend Langmuir products because they bring expensive technology to affordable pricing. I expect some support delays but find most of my issues are easy remedies.
That’s good feedback. I think LS supports the XR better than the Pro, BUT, they have been pretty decent to work with. It just really took some serious effort to get up and running.
Great video man. I watched this when doing my research and decided to go with an STV 5X5. I had some parts missing issues at first but they were overnighted next day. Their phone costumer service is excellent. Good luck with your table. Again great video.
Thanks Tom. Glad you’re happy with your purchase, and interesting to hear that STV is having some issues with parts as well. I guess it’s just a sign of the times.
Great video brother. Thanks for the insight. I’m still thinking of buying one but at least I know what headaches might be to come. Hopefully they’ve gotten better. We’ll see. Gonna go check out your other videos
Thanks! I actually had a lot more trouble than what made it into this video, but ultimately those guys took pretty good care of me, and their forums are a fantastic resource that other entry level CNC companies cannot replicate. Ultimately it’s a great bit of capability for the price.
Thanks for the video. Helps make my decision a lot easier as to where to spend my money.
Glad to help. Ultimately, I’m happy with the table, but if you can afford something with better customer service, you should.
I watch your show and thank you for this information .I have not perchance one but it makes look deeper into this product and other sources I'm retired so take care of where my money goes thank you great show
Keep watching Rodney. I’m not 100% convinced that this the best purchase for me, but I’m feeling pretty good about it overall. Like maybe 90%. If I can have it up and running in the next week or two, I’ll have a lot better idea, and I promise not to pull any punches in my review.
This is why I'm building my own. I know everyone doesn't have the time or know how to do this, but if I build it, it will be right. And I always answer my emails, to myself, same day, ; )
I chuckled out loud. Right on Mark. I hope to get there some day. I know it’s not rocket surgery, but it’s still a little over my head.
@@crazycaseyscustoms oh believe me, I've been tempted by the Crossfire family. But I always wanted at least a 4 × 8 size bed, and I think the Crossfire XR is way out of my price range. Hope you get the issues sorted. Then the real fun begins, ; )
The person most likely to screw up is the person most likely to be able to fix the problem. When those people happen to be you, the success of fixing the issue is almost 100%. Props dude. I hope you are successful
I was trying to decide between these guys and the sparx 4800 table. I appreciate the video in my decision making. I see some of the same on their Facebook.
FWIW, after my initial trials and tribulations, the table has been cutting flawlessly.
Hey Casey, Funny thing: I had the same issue (2 left lower supports) and also received an out-of-square x axis. That is when I realized that there is no phone support (even though there is a phone symbol shown next to the support tab on LS's website). Received a reply to my email the next morning (replacement shipped out). I was very surprised not having an inventory sheet in each box, so there is no easy way to figure out if all parts are present. One minor gripe of mine is the insructions for the THC and limit switches: Those instructions and testing should be part of the installation, had to hunt for them a bit.
So far so good, I would also buy it again. Meanwhile, I got all my axes moving, all of it works just fine. Waiting for the water table and cross supports (Box 3), delayed due to UPS.
Good luck! Bernhard
Bernhard, when did you order yours? And how did you know your X was out of square? Also, where are you located? I only ask because I am in the process of making a dimple die for the water table that will step the drain area down, without compromising the sealing surface, while I’m waiting for my table support and legs to show up. Hopefully that shipment will be the end of my troubles with this unit.
Thanks for taking my “review” in the spirit in which it was written. 😊 I’ve got high hopes for this thing.
Have had the pro 2 plus years. Mine had all the parts and pieces but was rough to put together. Using HT 35 have over 5000 pierces on original consumables. Have made a couple hundred projects and have only screwed up one ( my fault ) I love this machine follow instructions to the T. They did send me upgraded spindle locks? Maybe I am lucky and I def paid for it myself.
I think the Hypertherm is the key, although mine works perfectly now, and has for the last year. It just took a lot of effort to get it there…
Thank you for your honest review. Very much considering this table as it fits my budget and I am a one man operation who is just getting going. Certiflat had a similar issue, similar resolution with my certiflat weld table. Similarly, would still buy.
Thanks again
I’ve got my eyes on one of those, too, Brandon, but I could actually build something comparable on this table. Anyway, you’re welcome. As it is, it was about a 3 month process working out all of the kinks, but my table works flawlessly now, and I’m very happy with the capability it provides me.
@Crazy Casey’s Customs its a good design, 1 thing I will say is buy the thickest version you can afford/handle. I was on a tight budget when I got mine and wish I had held off for a bit and got the thicker one.
Good to know, @@brandonolson6111. I appreciate the info.
Thank you for putting this out. Not only am I looking that the crossfire pro my son wants an MR1. I'm good with working through logistics issues as long as the vendor is open and honest.
Thank you. This video has been fairly popular and I hope it gets Langmuir to think about their social media curation policy’s a little bit more; they do a pretty good job on their website of telling you what to expect, but it’s really easy to get caught up in all of the marketing (social media affiliated and otherwise) showing perfectly dialed-in machines making it look way too easy. The honest truth is that I’m a month in and still don’t have the machine dialed, but I AM getting closer. At the end of the day, the Crossfire Pro is still half the price of the next closest competitor, and there’s just no way that you aren’t going to have some trade offs in that equation. I couldn’t have afforded the next option up the price range, and it’s still “cheap” compared to a commercial machine, so who’s to say it would actually be any kind of improvement. And I’m sure a Lincoln Torchmate would be dialed in from the get-go, but it’s $20k!!? 😳
Langmuir needs to have some confidence that they have put out a comprehensive DIY Plasma Table “Kit” with a stellar online community-based support system (the Langmuir Systems Forum), at a price point that’s competitive with buying the raw materials and trying to design and build a CNC Plasma Table yourself. That’s truly impressive! And when you consider all of that, you could probably let the negative reviews stand alongside the positive ones without even giving them a second thought…
Just my $0.02.
If you end up buying a Crossfire Pro, and if you want it to produce parts that look more like they were laser cut than plasma cut, I’d probably recommend the Hypertherm plasma cutter that Langmuir sells. It is exactly 3x the price of the Primeweld Cut 60 that I purchased (and that is SO popular to use with these machines because of it’s price point), but it is plug and play ready for the Langmuir table, AND it has a cut chart that includes plasma voltage settings, that take all of the guesswork out of your post processing and cut setup processes. This will save you a TON of the aggravation that I’ve been experiencing the last month. And I’ve heard (can’t confirm) that consumable life is about 4x that of my Primeweld, and since consumables for the Primeweld are about $6/pr, that could really add up over a couple years of cutting. I’ve just bought the Primeweld, and I’m already considering the upgrade.
Good luck! Ask me any questions, any time!
Casey reading your replies is well worth it with all the details you provide... I'm considering buying the XR and buy my own Hypertherm plasma cutter? I contacted Lincoln about their torchmate and the start with 34k for the 4400 series and it goes up 38k for 4800 which i had in mind.. but it's no brain to compare with what would Lungmuir priced at...
Yeah, @zackhenry1151, the Torchmate is crazy expensive; it was totally a non-starter for me. Good choice on the Hypertherm. They seem to make an excellent plasma.
I recently ordered the XL kit to expand, the range of the cutting surface of my table. The new screw was a 5/8 " too long, it included a new type of coupling. However, I cut the extra length off and ground a new end so the coupling would fit snuggly. Seems that Langmuir does not check anything from China, just act as re-shippers. The table I purchased was the only table they had at the time. 30 days after getting my set-up they offered the Pro for sale. I would have waited if I had known about the newer model.
I understand exactly what you mean, and I whole-heartedly agree, though I think really it’s more a sign of the times than anything. I’m getting ready to do a review on a new fixture table from one of Langmuir’s competitors. That may not be of interest to you, but the differences in customer service of the two companies really comes into focus when there are issues. Anyway, thanks for the comment! Hope you’re having a wonderful holiday.
Good for u thanks
Thank you.
My table came with 2 wrong legs also, I welded the holes and redrilled them. I got my table in December of 2019.
That’s dedication, and a lot of work.
Cool video. I wish I could order a table just don't have the space.
I tell you what, that’s a major consideration. I almost went with the smaller version, because I was having a hard time justifying the space, but I’m glad I got the larger one. Maybe someday you WILL have the space. 😊 Here’s hoping! 👍🏼
Damnnnn thank you . Because of you I dodged a bullet ! Hats off to you .
I don’t know if I’d go that far, Jose. It has the potential to be a great machine, especially for the price. And some people seem to be really lucky and have almost no trouble at all getting up and running with it. But me…I’m still struggling to get mine working. And it’s not nearly as easy as a lot of the TH-cam videos make it look. If you’re determined, and can work through complex problems, you can probably figure it out. Good luck whatever you decide.
Would you recommend this one or arc droid?
I don’t really know enough about the Arc Droid to recommend it, @@Obs.society, but it’s intriguing. It seems like you don’t need a laptop to run it. If that’s actually the case, and if it’s big enough to fit your needs, it might be a really great machine.
I know you mentioned that they deleted your post on the forums about missing parts, does it still seem to be the case on the forums where they remove the negative feedback? I was searching for posts about missing parts and found some but was unsure if it reflected the scale of the QC issue.
From their perspective, they don’t want posts about packaging QC issues cluttering up their forum, and because there is a pretty strong community that reads and replies to everything that get’s posted, I go back and forth on how much I can actually fault them for that. Still felt a bit like censorship to me, but I’m not looking at it the same way they are. Ultimately, I wound up with another lengthy post on there, which they locked after they “resolved” my issue and sent warranty parts, but they didn’t delete that one. They were also purchased earlier this year, for whatever that’s worth. They are now owned by parent company Shop Sabre, which is owned by a private equity firm. It seems like they left most of Langmuir’s customer support personal in place, and their product is fantastic when it works, and for a lot less money than any of their competitors. Where to spend your money is never an easy decision…
@@crazycaseyscustoms that’s a great way to look at it. I’ll definitely keep that in mind.
Nice video. Just got mine to jog last night. See you are in Nevada from license plate. Happen to be in Pahrump? Lol I need help 😂
No, I’m all the way up near Virginia City. Get on the forum if you aren’t already. That thing is a HUGE resource!!
Start a thread and tag me on there, and I’ll see if we can get you the help you need. 😊
If they decide to kick you off the forum, that would be super shady, and the next video could be a spotlight on shady business practices. If they threaten to remove you, you can just mention making another video.
This was almost a year and a half ago now. They never did kick me off the forum, and in fact the later troubles I had with the electronics on this machine resulted in the largest (longest) trouble-shooting thread in the history of their forum (still to this day). When they finally, after three months working with their tech support, decided to send me a new control unit, they did lock that thread as well, but they did NOT hide it. Also, during this same time frame, the company was bought out. I will say that the forum is the single greatest resource you have if you decide to buy one of these machines, and the community support is what makes this machine functional at a fraction of the cost of other comparable CNC plasma cutters.
❤
Thank you!
I guess I am crossing off this one off my list! CUSTOMER SERVICE is #1.
If you can afford a better machine, then I would probably look to get a better machine. Anecdotally I have heard that CS has increased since the company changed hands (just after I purchased my table).
Thanks for your good review. I am a small business owner.
Ikea furniture sounds like the inst are better laid out. Lac of QC, E-mail only, Double talk, Shipping issues, Delete of your post issues is bad & misleading.
I now have bettering understanding of the real price of an inexpensive plasma table. Your Time not there's.
The best part is they will fix it even they hide they're issues under the rug.
It’s really going to depend on the value of your time, or your employees’ time; I’d expect to have somewhere between 20 to 100 hours to be completely up and running, depending on the issues you do or do not run into (based on the machine I received at the time I received it). If you have somebody competent that you’re paying less than $20/hr, then the math probably still makes sense. If it’s stopping you from making $100/hr, then it’s not. I have heard anecdotally that customer service has improved at Langmuir under their new ownership, however, I cannot confirm. My advice to anybody considering this table is to get on their forum and do research. Even with the “sweeping under the rug”, it’s still a great resource; just keep the iceberg analogy in mind…
Casey, sounds like it’s at the price range of no QC Or someone’s not doing their job and they’re covering it up. Almost like something else going on in this country. Wish you all the best. Retired now, I worked for the state of ca. I was quality control for the California Department of Justice Stolen Vehicle Unit (SVS), if I screwed up it was public and officer safety. No tolerance here 😁 cheers my friend 🍻👍👍👍
Ron, I agree that it definitely doesn’t add up, and sometimes employees make decisions that, while well-intentioned, can kind of muddy the works. Though, who knows, because I think the owner of this company is a young man; younger than myself, and I find that I’m a bit of an anachronism when it comes to how I approach business compared to my generational peers. And hey, happy retirement my friend! What a dream to someday be able to do that. Though, also, if I do this right, maybe I might not even ever want to. 😊 Here’s hoping! Cheers, my friend! 👍🏼👍🏼🍺🍺🍔🍕🌯😂
Too bad that there were some bumps on the road, i like to see how does this table works
I mean, there’s always bumps, these days, my friend. This isn’t so much a CNC Plasma Table as it is a DIY kit. And it is a hell of a bargain in the CNC Plasma space, but as so much of the actual assembly, setup, programming, trouble-shooting, etc seems to fall on the end user, I’m a bit annoyed that they can’t even get all the right pieces in the box.
Another bump; my parts were hopefully going to go out today, but we’ve got a big winter storm rolling in, and I think there’s a good chance that could delay me yet another week; they don’t even try to deliver when it snows.
And I’m sure the folks at Langmuir would say, “well, it’s out of our hands”, but that is, once again, why more care should be given to getting it right the first time, in my humble opinion. 😊
Be well, my friend.
Catching up after I saw the "flaming nipple", haha.
I hate it when companies curate the negative posts from their site. They invest time & money into cleaning up after themselves instead of actually cleaning themselves up.
Same with reviews. I'd rather see an official company response to a negative review or forum post, so that I can see that the company cares to see the customer through to satisfaction.
What’s up Gile!? I thought I replied to this forever ago, but it’s popping up in my unanswered comments. I agree 110%! Hope you’re well.
Shop Saber now owns them, maybe this changes
I have heard they now have phone service on this table. Just a rumor, but maybe…?
Can I buy your Spencer sign in the background?
I don’t think I want to sell it. :/ I mean, unless you want to make me a stupid offer. 😂 I’ve got Spencer on my mother’s side, and it’s a pretty cool part of the family tree.
Dude I'm about to buy one of these to start my business. Would you still buy one today? I'm considering spending like $4k more for a better table but don't really have budget.
I would, but I’d just go into it with measured expectations. And I would buy a Hypertherm plasma cutter. Don’t mess with the Razorweld, or any of the cheaper Chinese units. It just reduces variables. Also, get on the forum, and read up on the setup procedures and best practices that can make your life a little easier in the long run.
@@crazycaseyscustoms Appreciate the info. Thank you. I've been researching these for 6 month probably.
They do have customers service now
They always did, but at the time of this video, you had to create an online support ticket through their system. You couldn’t pick up the phone and talk to a human.
I've started looking for Reddit posts and just reviews in general. You will usually find other sites that will have the negatives that you can look through and then base your decision if you think they are legit or someone just being an idiot.
***“Someone just being an idiot”***
Yep! You make a perfectly fine point, but navigating reviews can become a full time job if you let it. I just bought some dirt barrier cloth for a French drain I’m installing. The stuff sold at the big box stores has a 2-1/2 star rating, but it’s 1/3 the price of anything else. You don’t have to look very hard to realize that the multitude of 1 star reviews are from folks trying to use it as landscaping cloth, which it is not. But it took me nearly half an hour of reading to arrive at the decision that I probably could safely save $40 here without affecting the longevity of my installation.
I’ll tell you a little story that sort of plays into your comment, and the overall message of my video.
My father-in-law manufactures products that he sells on his own e-commerce site. They are an established, well-respected brand. He and I got into it around the same time that I made this video, when he admitted that he sometimes deletes bad reviews on his website. His calculus is that if somebody is being “unfair” in their bad review, he will delete it. For example, if it’s a legitimate “bad experience”, but he had tried everything he could to make it right, or something along those lines, and the customer chooses to leave their bad review up, then he will delete it. This kind of blew my mind. But he will leave a bad review in which it’s obvious that the person who left it was just an idiot, because having some reviews like that actually lends credibility to the item for sale.
It’s pretty diabolical when you think about it. And of course there are third-party websites where he sells his products, and has no control over the reviews that are ultimately left, but at the end of the day, the scores aggregate out to roughly the same. He’s selling a pretty good product, and they have excellent customer service, BUT, the conversation certainly opened my eyes to the way reviews actually work.
Anyway, just food for thought…
Thanks for the comment!
@@crazycaseyscustoms I don't hold product reviews on the company website in very high regard, only if it is on a completely unrelated website.
It's an economy package, so they cut a few corners: So 1- No Phone Support, 2-No Detailed Parts Checklist (Missing Parts) 3-Shipping Delayed. I don't like to hear about them 'deleting posts' off the forum. Now that, I f-ing can't stand. Some petty tyrant doesn't want to own up or correct their mistakes, and tries to sweep it under the rug. So my takeaways are : This isn't a turn key solution ... It's a mandatory you must suffer solution.
Yeah, you basically got the jist…
That said, I’m still happy with the capability this has added to my shop. 😊
The fact that you have your hat in your hand and seem afraid of Langmuir to take you off the forum gives me pause for buying a system. I've been long thinking about purchasing a pro system for awhile but this has me double and triple thinking my stance on this brand. They have your money, the least they could do is honor that hard earned cash and get behind the product and offer a better quality experience than this.
I have mixed feelings about how to respond to your comment. I guess I’ll just give you all the information that I can, and let you decide how to take it. Please read all of it…
Your observations from this video are correct. Ultimately, they got me the missing pieces, and I got the machine together, but that was just the start of my problems. I had something defective either in their VIM module or the electronics unit itself. I spent two full months of daily effort before I was able to conclude, and get them to admit that, it was their components that were at fault. To be fair, there are a fair number of variables when it comes to CNC controlling something like a plasma cutter. They sent me all new electronics, and since then everything has worked FLAWLESSLY!
So, at the end of the day, I have CNC Plasma capability in my shop for about a $5,000 total investment. There is nothing else on the market within 2x that price, and a lot of it is 4x and more. Having this machine has been a game-changer. But I had to earn it.
At the end of the day, I have a forum post on the Langmuir site that is over 300 posts long. It is probably the most embarrassing post on their whole forum, and while they “locked” it as soon as they decided to send me parts, they haven’t taken it down. Head over there and read it if you have an evening to kill, and want to try and wrap your head around a sort of worst-case trouble-shooting scenario.
Ultimately, I’m really glad to have the machine. It’s already paid for the plasma cutter itself, and in a few months should be entirely paid off with paying jobs. Let alone all the fun stuff I get to make for myself.
Hope this helps.
@@crazycaseyscustoms Thank you very much for the response.
Maybe you were the lucky ducky that got the rough go around. We've all seen these situations with other companies across the board. I think after covid it's been super awful getting good help. Im looking for a good cnc that's going to get me up and running with little fuss and I think a few days of building the unit is acceptable.
I may still go with LS... the video is very helpful.
Noticed in your vid... howdy fellow hamb'r
Right on, @@JoelsVideoJunk! Yes, I think that if my situation were the norm, they’d be out of business. And the forum will help you trouble-shoot any issues you might encounter; solid brain trust there.
Hey, my ‘28 A Roadster build (thus far) is thoroughly documented on this channel. If you click on playlists -> The Crazy Casey Roadster there’s probably about 10 videos there. I’ll get back on it here eventually. Thanks for the support!
Maybe should have bought the Arcdroid .
Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe…
I don’t really know enough about the Arcdroid.
That's 13 mins of absolute dumb shit if you don't fast forward to the end. Then its still 90 seconds wasted.
Oooh, JD with the hot take! Look, I feel terrible. I hope I didn’t keep you from, like, curing cancer…or I don’t know, jerking off in your mother’s basement or something, with those 13 minutes of your life you’re never gonna get back now. Come on by if you want a refund…