Adam, what most people, including probably yourself, don't understand is that William Cheung knows perfectly the classic Wing Chun style. He can do all the forms, exactly as Wong Shun Leung does them and he knows all the techniques. This is what he was initially taught by Ip Man, just like everyone else. He just knows some more things. Did Ip Man teach him those? Did the Triads teach him? Red Boat? Did he create them on his own (which would make him a martial arts genius). That I cannot tell. What I can tell is that he knows everything everyone knows, plus a few things more that the others don't know, this is it.
Not according to Ip Chun and Ip Ching before he passed away. Ip Chun is on video with words about Cheung! Take it for what it’s worth or not but Ip Man sons were not jealous of Mr. Cheung, they did not like the lies etc.
Reading the various comments I feel obliged to intervene. After having trained for 16 years of modified Wing Chun (as GM William Cheung calls it), I have been practicing W. Cheung's version since 1987 and I advise you not to criticize what you see in the videos. Introduce yourself to a real Wing Chun Master from the Cheung school and try and ask the questions you want. Then you will understand. Consider that the Ip Man video was shot a week before he died, he was old and sick. While, William Cheung was in his best form. It's stupid to make this comparison. You can't understand anything from videos of this kind and you can only form bad concepts. Sifu A. Nardo
I tried William Cheung style for a year and a half and had to leave because it felt too much like Chinese style karate. My sifu was a very skilled fighter and I even met Mr. Cheung at a seminar. But they tried too hard on their web site putting down other forms of wing chun compared to their own. Plus, I hated having your jung, or wu, hand in front of your face. That was so hard to spar like that, it messed with your vision. Still, I did learn some things from his style before moving on and learning Moy Yat's version.
Wow, this brings back memories, I haven't thought about the wild, waving Huen Saos in over 20 years, when I was with a Willliam Cheung guy, as opposed to the tight curling Huen Saos I do now. Not sayin' one way's right or wrong, I just do a tight Huen Sao now.
@@sifuadamwilliss Yes. For context, the tight way that I was taught to do it now is to go from the outside line to inside line while maintaining structure and being in position to strike forward instantly. The "waving" huen sao that I originally learned was to "fling" the obstructing arm out of the way. I have not found that to be viable in Chi Sao because it's too much movement and takes you offline too much, if it even works at all.
The huen Sao not just huen only but also includes huen gerk in actual applications and huen Sao is in use of do not fight force with force with your opponent’s
@@sifuadamwilliss Its a lao sao used for going from inside the opponents arm to the outside, it cannot be a tight circle because you will stick the arm and get stuck, it needs to be a small circle to release the force and come around the other side of the arm fast. th-cam.com/video/TLPh8HXwlYY/w-d-xo.html
I studied William cheung version for 4 years and each school I attended in his lineage they all change it which is annoying because you see Ip Man doing it and they've deviated so far from his version especially Chum Kiu I could not get his concept what his chum kiu was trying to accomplish. I had a revelation while training why step when you can easily pivot, it was quicker and you didn't loose your structure but when I asked my sihing he said we don't do that in this school. I thought wing chun was economy of motion why step when you can pivot it was faster . There is good points in William Cheung"s wing chun but I prefer Moy Yat"s version now when it comes to fighting its all in the person's fighting spirit and how they prepared themselves and how they've adopted it to see what works for them
William teached us exactly that when he came to our Wing Chun school for seminar's.. He came almost every year and the main thing he was talking about is that we don't need to use the techniques as we do it in the form, and it's very rarely the case you should use it as you practice it in forms .. I asked him about pivoting and he told me,, You have all this forms, you learn them and then use from them what comes naturally for you and what you see is most effective in your sparring's.. I asked about pivoting and he just told me, of course you can if it is easier or faster .. That is actually the point of Wing Chun ..
Pivoting is a great way to break your stance or hurt your ankle when the ground isn’t cooperative. I’m a big believer in having your own kung fu, but pivoting always seemed like asking for an accident to me.
@ericgraham3344 how dodgy Bill is still in business beats the shite out of my his sons run the school these days It's okay mate I got suckered in back in the late 80s
You all think Yip Man only does one way, he learnt from another master and passed on some differences to others. Everyone else got same answer- yes that's right. Because it's different some say it's wrong, shows how lacking they are. W Cheung lived with Yip Man for a period and after he was beating everyone, how ??? Try work it out.
Fairly sure Cheung created his own style and just came up with this 'modified vs traditional' tale. I've heard the exact same story in the Tai Chi world. Convenient as no one else can prove or disprove it.
@@fabiandee8178 right. It does not make sense that he would teach only Cheung in secret. That would imply Ip Man defrauded everyone else. These guys never think about this lol
My Sifu learned Wing Chun from Sifu Francis Fong. Siu Nim Tao means little idea. So my question is this, why does Sigung William China tan sao and bong sao, look totally different from Grandmaster Yip Man's?
I have trained with many different Sifu’s in Wing Chun, Ving Tsun, Moy Yat, William Cheung, Art Eng, and others. There are some slight differences in their methods of training, Sifu Cheung was one of the best street fighters in Hong Kong in his youth. As the art was taught from one person to another the art has evolved by interpretation from person to person. Notice how Sifu Cheung is defending his face with the front hand and widening his blocks to defend himself from a further angle of attack instead of right next to his body. His Tan Sau is not flat like IP Man’s palm, depending on the application you would want to drop the fingers and slide along the arm to strike after the blocking motion moving forward with a cutting strike to the throat or the chin. There are many little nuances in Wing Chun and the only way to find out what works best for you is to find a qualified teacher to explain the slight differences between some teachers. Happy Training. Sifu, Ken
I notice a lot of the comments are about where William Cheung's arm is positioned or moving. Yes, it's an issue, but it is not nearly as big an issue as how he is moving. The forms themselves are often moving from weak positions, which is why it is more important learn how to move. What I am observing is how the shoulder of his arm that is moving is typically protruding forward or dropping down, and is disengaged from his body. He is placing a lot of emphasis on his arm and I am not seeing the support of his full body, and certainly not from the side of the body that is not moving. Even when only one arm is moving, the other side of the body has to be engaged. It is not there to have a rest. I have no doubt that if I placed moderate resistance against William Cheung's moving arm, it would tense up and he would struggle to move me. Similarly, if I pressed mildly against his opposite arm that is not moving, I have no doubt it would not be focused towards me and it would be easily pushed back, showing his arms and body are not working together as one unit.
@Ricardo Castillo When you keep your elbow close to the body i.e. sinking the elbow, it is very well connected to the body and when the hip moves sideways for the turn, the elbow follows with the hip and has greater momentum than just turning your huen sau with the shoulder which makes it unconnected and losing the momentum generated by the whole body. The William Cheung way makes you lose a lot of strength/ momentum as we all know that the hip/ dan tian area acts like a large gear which provides more mechanical advantage than using the shoulder. Just simple physics. Ip Man had got it right.
Cheung's Wing Chun is little like Ip Man's doing the forms but of course Cheung claims that Ip Man in the video is showing the modified version not the superior Traditional version he learned from Ip Man LOL MASSIVE FART NOISE! It is possible Cheung never learned the full system from Ip Man and when he left Hong Kong to go to Australia, he made up his version based on what he recalled or learned later. Cheung is a genuine Wing Chun master but his system is very impractical for a modern day street fight, Cheung himself was beaten very easily by Emin Boztepe in 1986 despite him claiming his Traditional system was superior to all others.
in 1986, william cheung was 46 years old (born in 1940), while Emin Boztepe was a top athlete in top form aged 20 (born in 1966). When you're close to fifty, it's not easy to fight a competitor in his twenties.
@@DeanAmite1 Boztepe was born 1962 so he was around 24:then. Cheung boasted no Wing Chin exponent could beat him in a fight, and that anyone could try him anytime. Boztepe beat him very easily! Worse Cheung farted loudly as he was taken to the floor, making it all the more embarrassing for him.
@@CloudsBeyond And yet ...... he had been told never to eat beans before a fight ! ;-) ))) ..... Well, apart from that, the context of a challenge is particular, the fight was not wing chun but a messy fight on the ground. (sorry for the bad english, I used the translator)
Honestly, if one compare SLT william and Master Ip performed, one can see many mistakes from william e.g. his hands are always positioned high to hide his face and block his own vision, when he punches, he moves his shoulder, his protection hand is again high up to his eyes' level (not like Master Ip in front of the body) and this opens up his body for being attacked. There are many others. Not to mention here otherwise will take days
Of all Masters they have different techniques of the same art, not all is going to be the same for the fact they have different views, master William had explained the reason why he puts the SLT in front of his face is to focus more of what you trying to accomplish in this art form. But of course while fighting is in front of your chest, protecting the center, it's just a learning the process to focus on the forms atrophes.
Ip Ching and Ip Chun had no respect for William Cheung. Ip Chun has already stated in an interview that William Cheung was the laziest student and never finished his Ving Tsun training and made up a lot of stuff claiming it was real Ving Tsun, that he was the only one taught the real system. That supposedly Ip Man taught him secret real Ving Tsun at midnight. I currently train with a Sifu who was made a master my Ip Ching. William Cheung is not respected by anyone in Ip Mans lineage for him being a prior student. This should say something!
There is a lot of skepticism about Cheung’s credentials. When Ip Man passed all these students fled to other countries and deemed them selves Sifu’s under Ip Man. I have no respect for Cheung as a true Certified Sifu under Ip Man. Yah he may know Wing Chun just like me, but me as well as him are not a true Sifu. I am just a certified Practitioner under my Sifu. Of course you know that the first Sifu under Ip Man was Leung Sheung. That is our proud lineage.
Adam, what most people, including probably yourself, don't understand is that William Cheung knows perfectly the classic Wing Chun style. He can do all the forms, exactly as Wong Shun Leung does them and he knows all the techniques. This is what he was initially taught by Ip Man, just like everyone else. He just knows some more things. Did Ip Man teach him those? Did the Triads teach him? Red Boat? Did he create them on his own (which would make him a martial arts genius). That I cannot tell. What I can tell is that he knows everything everyone knows, plus a few things more that the others don't know, this is it.
Not according to Ip Chun and Ip Ching before he passed away. Ip Chun is on video with words about Cheung! Take it for what it’s worth or not but Ip Man sons were not jealous of Mr. Cheung, they did not like the lies etc.
@@Youcantseeme326 they wernt around much, one never fought and smokes. William Cheungs skill far outweighs them from what I've seen.
Reading the various comments I feel obliged to intervene. After having trained for 16 years of modified Wing Chun (as GM William Cheung calls it), I have been practicing W. Cheung's version since 1987 and I advise you not to criticize what you see in the videos. Introduce yourself to a real Wing Chun Master from the Cheung school and try and ask the questions you want. Then you will understand.
Consider that the Ip Man video was shot a week before he died, he was old and sick. While, William Cheung was in his best form. It's stupid to make this comparison. You can't understand anything from videos of this kind and you can only form bad concepts.
Sifu A. Nardo
I tried William Cheung style for a year and a half and had to leave because it felt too much like Chinese style karate. My sifu was a very skilled fighter and I even met Mr. Cheung at a seminar. But they tried too hard on their web site putting down other forms of wing chun compared to their own. Plus, I hated having your jung, or wu, hand in front of your face. That was so hard to spar like that, it messed with your vision. Still, I did learn some things from his style before moving on and learning Moy Yat's version.
Thanks for the side by side👍
Wow, this brings back memories, I haven't thought about the wild, waving Huen Saos in over 20 years, when I was with a Willliam Cheung guy, as opposed to the tight curling Huen Saos I do now. Not sayin' one way's right or wrong, I just do a tight Huen Sao now.
Did you ever learn what they were for? Just trying to understand since I practice mine very tight as well with as little elbow movement as possible.
@@sifuadamwilliss Yes. For context, the tight way that I was taught to do it now is to go from the outside line to inside line while maintaining structure and being in position to strike forward instantly. The "waving" huen sao that I originally learned was to "fling" the obstructing arm out of the way. I have not found that to be viable in Chi Sao because it's too much movement and takes you offline too much, if it even works at all.
@@ricardocastillo5485 Thanks for the explanation 👍
The huen Sao not just huen only but also includes huen gerk in actual applications and huen Sao is in use of do not fight force with force with your opponent’s
@@sifuadamwilliss Its a lao sao used for going from inside the opponents arm to the outside, it cannot be a tight circle because you will stick the arm and get stuck, it needs to be a small circle to release the force and come around the other side of the arm fast. th-cam.com/video/TLPh8HXwlYY/w-d-xo.html
Wow very noticeable differences when you consider how precise and meticulous we try to strive to make Siu Lim Tao.
I studied William cheung version for 4 years and each school I attended in his lineage they all change it which is annoying because you see Ip Man doing it and they've deviated so far from his version especially Chum Kiu I could not get his concept what his chum kiu was trying to accomplish. I had a revelation while training why step when you can easily pivot, it was quicker and you didn't loose your structure but when I asked my sihing he said we don't do that in this school. I thought wing chun was economy of motion why step when you can pivot it was faster . There is good points in William Cheung"s wing chun but I prefer Moy Yat"s version now when it comes to fighting its all in the person's fighting spirit and how they prepared themselves and how they've adopted it to see what works for them
William teached us exactly that when he came to our Wing Chun school for seminar's.. He came almost every year and the main thing he was talking about is that we don't need to use the techniques as we do it in the form, and it's very rarely the case you should use it as you practice it in forms .. I asked him about pivoting and he told me,, You have all this forms, you learn them and then use from them what comes naturally for you and what you see is most effective in your sparring's.. I asked about pivoting and he just told me, of course you can if it is easier or faster .. That is actually the point of Wing Chun ..
Pivoting is a great way to break your stance or hurt your ankle when the ground isn’t cooperative. I’m a big believer in having your own kung fu, but pivoting always seemed like asking for an accident to me.
You got ripped off
@ericgraham3344 how dodgy Bill is still in business beats the shite out of my his sons run the school these days
It's okay mate I got suckered in back in the late 80s
You all think Yip Man only does one way, he learnt from another master and passed on some differences to others. Everyone else got same answer- yes that's right. Because it's different some say it's wrong, shows how lacking they are. W Cheung lived with Yip Man for a period and after he was beating everyone, how ??? Try work it out.
The fact is ipman modified wing chun extensively so who knows what he tought this fella
Fairly sure Cheung created his own style and just came up with this 'modified vs traditional' tale. I've heard the exact same story in the Tai Chi world. Convenient as no one else can prove or disprove it.
@@fabiandee8178 right. It does not make sense that he would teach only Cheung in secret. That would imply Ip Man defrauded everyone else. These guys never think about this lol
My Sifu learned Wing Chun from Sifu Francis Fong. Siu Nim Tao means little idea. So my question is this, why does Sigung William China tan sao and bong sao, look totally different from Grandmaster Yip Man's?
Because Cheung is doing it higher up like someone is trying to punch his face
I have trained with many different Sifu’s in Wing Chun, Ving Tsun, Moy Yat, William Cheung, Art Eng, and others. There are some slight differences in their methods of training, Sifu Cheung was one of the best street fighters in Hong Kong in his youth. As the art was taught from one person to another the art has evolved by interpretation from person to person. Notice how Sifu Cheung is defending his face with the front hand and widening his blocks to defend himself from a further angle of attack instead of right next to his body. His Tan Sau is not flat like IP Man’s palm, depending on the application you would want to drop the fingers and slide along the arm to strike after the blocking motion moving forward with a cutting strike to the throat or the chin. There are many little nuances in Wing Chun and the only way to find out what works best for you is to find a qualified teacher to explain the slight differences between some teachers. Happy Training. Sifu, Ken
Thanks
I notice a lot of the comments are about where William Cheung's arm is positioned or moving. Yes, it's an issue, but it is not nearly as big an issue as how he is moving. The forms themselves are often moving from weak positions, which is why it is more important learn how to move.
What I am observing is how the shoulder of his arm that is moving is typically protruding forward or dropping down, and is disengaged from his body. He is placing a lot of emphasis on his arm and I am not seeing the support of his full body, and certainly not from the side of the body that is not moving. Even when only one arm is moving, the other side of the body has to be engaged. It is not there to have a rest. I have no doubt that if I placed moderate resistance against William Cheung's moving arm, it would tense up and he would struggle to move me. Similarly, if I pressed mildly against his opposite arm that is not moving, I have no doubt it would not be focused towards me and it would be easily pushed back, showing his arms and body are not working together as one unit.
@Ricardo Castillo When you keep your elbow close to the body i.e. sinking the elbow, it is very well connected to the body and when the hip moves sideways for the turn, the elbow follows with the hip and has greater momentum than just turning your huen sau with the shoulder which makes it unconnected and losing the momentum generated by the whole body. The William Cheung way makes you lose a lot of strength/ momentum as we all know that the hip/ dan tian area acts like a large gear which provides more mechanical advantage than using the shoulder. Just simple physics. Ip Man had got it right.
Cheung's Wing Chun is little like Ip Man's doing the forms but of course Cheung claims that Ip Man in the video is showing the modified version not the superior Traditional version he learned from Ip Man LOL MASSIVE FART NOISE! It is possible Cheung never learned the full system from Ip Man and when he left Hong Kong to go to Australia, he made up his version based on what he recalled or learned later. Cheung is a genuine Wing Chun master but his system is very impractical for a modern day street fight, Cheung himself was beaten very easily by Emin Boztepe in 1986 despite him claiming his Traditional system was superior to all others.
in 1986, william cheung was 46 years old (born in 1940), while Emin Boztepe was a top athlete in top form aged 20 (born in 1966). When you're close to fifty, it's not easy to fight a competitor in his twenties.
@@DeanAmite1 Boztepe was born 1962 so he was around 24:then. Cheung boasted no Wing Chin exponent could beat him in a fight, and that anyone could try him anytime. Boztepe beat him very easily! Worse Cheung farted loudly as he was taken to the floor, making it all the more embarrassing for him.
@@CloudsBeyond And yet ...... he had been told never to eat beans before a fight ! ;-) ))) ..... Well, apart from that, the context of a challenge is particular, the fight was not wing chun but a messy fight on the ground. (sorry for the bad english, I used the translator)
Ip Man rules.
Will is so external compared to Ip Man and CST.
Colorized Ip man
Honestly, if one compare SLT william and Master Ip performed, one can see many mistakes from william e.g. his hands are always positioned high to hide his face and block his own vision, when he punches, he moves his shoulder, his protection hand is again high up to his eyes' level (not like Master Ip in front of the body) and this opens up his body for being attacked. There are many others. Not to mention here otherwise will take days
Of all Masters they have different techniques of the same art, not all is going to be the same for the fact they have different views, master William had explained the reason why he puts the SLT in front of his face is to focus more of what you trying to accomplish in this art form. But of course while fighting is in front of your chest, protecting the center, it's just a learning the process to focus on the forms atrophes.
IpMan + William Cheung are same thanks so much from Granda maitre de William Cheung
Ip Ching and Ip Chun had no respect for William Cheung. Ip Chun has already stated in an interview that William Cheung was the laziest student and never finished his Ving Tsun training and made up a lot of stuff claiming it was real Ving Tsun, that he was the only one taught the real system. That supposedly Ip Man taught him secret real Ving Tsun at midnight. I currently train with a Sifu who was made a master my Ip Ching. William Cheung is not respected by anyone in Ip Mans lineage for him being a prior student. This should say something!
I just wonder if they are salty for not having the status they think they deserve, being the children of ip man but still living in the slums.
they disrespect shaolin codes....who can be si tai gung.... which was wong shun leung... who lived with yip 25 yrs???....
Jealous
William Cheung had left Hong Kong in 1959 after training most of the 50's.
While Ip chun didn't start training until 1962.
There is a lot of skepticism about Cheung’s credentials. When Ip Man passed all these students fled to other countries and deemed them selves Sifu’s under Ip Man. I have no respect for Cheung as a true Certified Sifu under Ip Man. Yah he may know Wing Chun just like me, but me as well as him are not a true Sifu. I am just a certified Practitioner under my Sifu. Of course you know that the first Sifu under Ip Man was Leung Sheung. That is our proud lineage.
Not only did they call themselves Sifu most of them called themselves Grandmaster. Sickening!!!
Sifu Cheung performance wasn't good & he's a leading authority on Wing Chun. His seem to hurried his demonstration without proper execution
Thanks