Full size vs "light" eMTB: is twice the power twice the fun?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2022
- The Orbea Rise H30 (available at Jenson USA via my affiliate link here: bit.ly/OrbeaRiseatJensonUSAjkw) is the quintessential "light" eMTB. The new Rocky Mountain Instinct Power Play (affiliate link to Jenson USA: bit.ly/RockyMountainPowerPlay...) is among the most powerful eMTBs currently available, though it only ways 4lbs more than the little Orbea. Just how much does the experience differ between these two bikes?
Big thanks to Industry Nine in their support with more amazing Enduro 315 Carbon wheels on all my bikes for 2022. Check out what they offer thru this link over to their page at Jenson USA: bit.ly/IndustryNine2022JKW (affiliate link)
A big thanks to PNW Components for their support in 2022! Check out the PNW cockpit items here: bit.ly/PNWComponents2022JKW (affiliate link)
Head to www.DrinkLMNT.com/Jeff to get your free sample pack with any purchase.
Did you know I post a new riding tutorial every month? These are ONLY posted to my Patreon page, so join now to see these rad videos! Here’s the full list of my riding tutorials posted through May 2022:
How to jump found gaps: / 67255256
How to stoppie turn: / 65842496
How to drop: / 64552391
How to LEAN in corners: / how-to-lean-in-63176556
How to Ride Light on the Bike: / how-to-ride-on-61941975
Riding technique differences between hardtails and full suspension: / 60435182
How to rut track: / 59366938
5 tips to make flat trails more fun: / 58058983
5 tips to improve bike control and balance: / 56839920
How to levitate out of corners: / 55607066
Three simple cornering tips: / 54371316
How (and when) to rock roll or drop: / 53126562
How to jump with fluidity- and not DEAD SAILER! / 51914476
How to Lanual: / 50695443
How to climb ledges without a bunny hop: / 49476021
Which brake to use when: / which-brake-to-48108425
Different bikes, different riding techniques: / 46925782
How to ride FLAT PEDALS through the ROCKS: / how-to-ride-flat-45662347
How to ride wet roots and steep chutes: / 44507851
How to ride with style: / how-to-ride-with-43349450
How to jump for height vs distance: / 42202183
Common manual questions answered: / 41006264
How to land jumps: / 39928153
My 3 favorite skills drills: / if-i-could-only-38809964
How to manual: / how-to-manual-37684861
Cutty: / 36579859
Manual a berm: / 35496772
How to ride in Sedona: / 34436065
Switchbacks: / 3-ways-to-33345804
Nosewheelie: / 32742504
Bump jump: / 31881231
Trials basics for trail riders: / 31145344
Tight berms: / 30389457
Aggressive braking: / 29579507
Confidence for mountain biking: / 28817411
Cornering: / 27981205
Flowing/pumping down the trail: / 27288868
Stoppie through turns: / 26296762
Technical climbing: / 25234847
Boost jumps: / 24161821
Bunnyhop: / 23396959
Utilizing the wheelie on the trail: / 23017910
How to wheelie: / 21879606 - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
The Orbea Rise H30 (available at Jenson USA via my affiliate link here: bit.ly/OrbeaRiseatJensonUSAjkw) is the quintessential "light" eMTB. The new Rocky Mountain Instinct Power Play (affiliate link to Jenson USA: bit.ly/RockyMountainPowerPlayatJensonUSAjkw) is among the most powerful eMTBs currently available, though it only ways 4lbs more than the little Orbea. Just how much does the experience differ between these two bikes?
Was your Rise in Profile 1 (48 Nm max output) or Profile 2 (60 Nm max output)? There's Eco/Trail/Boost settings in either Profile 1 or 2, and you can see what the max Nm output setting is using Shimano's eTube app. Bikes with the controller/display can easily flip between modes, whereas that junction box with 2 LEDs requires you to use eTube app to switch it into Profile 2 to get the 60 Nm max. Profile 1 was decidedly weak in feel and had similar cut-outs during rock crawling.
Excellent video that's helping me decide between a 2021 holdover 85 Nm Trek Rail 9.8 GX discounted to $6.4K that weighs 51 lb on my scale vs. a $5800 Orbea Rise H30 that weighs 46 lb on same scale (and Fuel EX-e at 44 lb but its pedal response lagged and its 50 Nm / 300 watts indicated on display felt far weaker than the Rise I rode on same day).
Trophy Truck *Rail 9.8) vs. Raptor (Rise H30) - different trucks & use-cases. Rail (& your Rocky) deliver that burly experience and can hang on OHV trails, whereas the Rise would be fun on momentum trails where perhaps e-MTBs weren't expressly prohibited (whereas a loud Bosch CX might be frowned upon).
Stantaur
1 day ago
Was your Rise in Profile 1 (~48 Nm max output) or Profile 2 (60 Nm max output)?
I'm with you. I don't think he had it in peak power mode.@@stantaur
@@craigmccallum2202 1 yr later, my wife's 85 Nm Bosch in Trek PowerFly FS4 will DESTROY climbs that my Rise M10 (Profile 2, Boost 60 Nm) can't make it up. Both bikes compared w/me riding.
So I'm now considering Giant's 85 Nm Trance Elite E+2 which allegedly weighs a few lb more than my Rise M10+Range Ext (44 lb) - so 46-ish for 85Nm might be the new sweet spot & force Orbea to up battery discharge rates to support 80-ish Nm in future Rises.
Solid video I’m now a proud owner of a Rise H30 exploring the new world of eMTBs! Hope all is wonderful in your world!
Cool video Jeff. I owned a full fat ebike -Scor EMTB and I’m loving it. Smiles for miles.
That was fun to see Logan's footage. You two have a cool dynamic.
Hey guys, great video! As an owner of the Rise M-Ltd, I'm curious if you dialed in the power profiles before the tests. Profile 1 is what it normally comes set up as, which is only about 30-45 nM in boost. When you customize it, you can adjust it all the way up to the 60 nM. I found doing that little tuning before was a huge difference and has got me up really steep stuff that I initially (before adjustment) couldn't even feel like I was possibly able to do.
I agree with you. I have a carbon rise, my wife has a turbo levo. There is nothing that I can climb in her bike that I can't get up on mine. I went into the app and dialed my boost in turbo to the max, since when I want boost, I want full boost. Her battery does last way longer, especially if we're both riding using a lot of boost.
Bought a Rise H15 for the sole purpose of keeping up with my fitter friends on their analog bikes. With any luck, I'll be able to ween myself off the ebike as my fitness hopefully improves. And I like the idea that the Rise seemingly applies power in a more logical manner than other ebikes.
I love Orbea. I got the Occam because of your guides, and I have to say I love how it feels.
Right on Iky, that's a super fun bike!!! Just enough travel to conquer the rough stuff, but a tad more conservative geo so you don't need to risk life and limb just to get loose!!!
I’ve owned “Super Light” Ebikes and full power Ebikes. If you keep your traditional analog bike, the full power makes more sense. If you can only ride one bike, a “super light” Ebike fits that role perfectly. Analog bikes are still more fun downhill than the lightest ebikes on the market and aren’t actually that much harder to pedal uphill than the light power bikes with proper gearing and seat angle
I don't think 'analog' is quite the right word here. Just 'manual', perhaps!
Which light ebikes specifically?
@@seamarsh3756 Kenevo SL and Levo SL
@@andersonsridebikes could see that, at 35nm… the rise is almost double that.. will be interesting to ride a fazua 60 system.. might be perfect
@@seamarsh3756 the fazua is definitely very interesting. I’m going to try to check out the Transition Relay when it finally hits the market for sure
I love seeing Logan ride! His style is awesome!
Agreeeeeed!
Your content is awesome as usual, Jeff!!! Please get Logan on this side of the camera more often, you two have an amazing synergy!!!!
Thanks Jeff. Best comparison I’ve seen yet. Having two different weight riders switch bikes was excellent. And smashing those crazy climbs on the two was eye opening. Im looking at the Transition Relay and Santa Cruz Heckler SL for lightweight vs the Ibis Oso, SC Bullit, Transition Repeater for full power. Im about 205-210 lbs and, since I’m keeping my Bronson, looking for an emtb to go smash those climbs and trails that kill me on my analog, seek out those far out mountain DHs that are outta reach on an analog, and hit repeat on Enduro trails (like the Frederick Watershed) that I get maybe 2 rides on with an analog before my energy is spent. The more research I do the more I am leaning full power. Plus with full power you can just build it burly and not worry so much about adding a couple pounds of component weight. I think components that can take the abuse- like DD casing tires, 38 mm stanchion forks, 223 mm rotors front and rear, are going to be key for the kind of emtbing I plan to do. I already killed a Rear tire on a Specialized I demoed hammering it on some WV rocky gnar. I don’t want to be fixing stuff on it constantly bc the components are not up for the abuse bc they’re trying to save weight. I’ll still have my Bronson for trail riding. I turned 51 this year but not looking for an emtb for regular rides yet. When I do, then I think the lightweights will be the call. And hopefully they’ll be even better by then. 🤙
My family has full power ebikes, but when i got to get mine finally , they were dold out, ended up getting a turbo levo sl, its a great bike and ive put 1800 mi on my 21' with no problems
Nice video. I'd love to see you review the Growler and a regular non-powered Instinct.
Was the Rise using Profile 1 (where Boost / level 3 maxes ~48 Nm) or did you go into Shimano's eTube app to engage Profile 2 (more Nm in Trail and Boost is full 60 Nm, plus more responsive pedal assist)?
P1 vs. P2 a big difference in feel of the bike, and its ability in getting up some of those steep climb features.
Please let us know. Totally understandable if you weren't aware that default/Profile 1 maxed out at 48 Nm (instead of 60) - very few reviewers have figured that out until after their review.
Awesome review with the H2H. I wish more channels would that. In your opinion Jeff, how would the RM fair down here in AZ at like sunset ridge at Hawes and at SoMo?
When I bought my ebike I wanted the aluminum Rise but after a lot of thought it really didn’t make sense to me. I ended up getting a YT Decoy 29 but I wish I had got the carbon Rise. I think the Rise kinda paved the way for the Trek Fuel EX-E and the Pivot Shuttle SL. I am extremely interested in that Pivot Shuttle SL.
I can't wait to try an e bike. I've got 100+ steep meters of climb before my best local trails. Not going to lie. I'd like that. I've had to Ripmo AF. Too heavy, the Ripley v4 and AF. The V4 is great going up. The AF is noticeably less inclined on steeper seated stuff I find.
My dream bikes were always Ibis. Now curious how close runner up Rocky fares. I had a crush on rocky elements a decade or more ago. I'm also Canadian so Rocky works!
Hi ! I love your videos! I would really like to see a comparison of all these ebikes with a SPITZING EVOLUTION R-Pedelec with a TQ 120hm motor! Or a review of any modern ebike with a TQ motor
I’m surprised you didn’t get more power out of the rise. I’m 175 and if I’m on boost (never am, too much) the only reason I can’t get up something is traction or skill, never power. Weird to see. I’d be surprised if it’s the right setting.
Maybe they'll answer the question many are asking: was their Rise H10 in Profile 2 (60 Nm in Boost) or Profile 1 (~48 Nm in Boost). Given their lack of display and mention of eTube app, I'm betting they don't even know about Profile 2's advantage over 1.
Hi jeff love your vids
Out here in Australia we to love all the emtbs youv review or mentioned how ever we also have a huge market for the merida e160 and was wandering if you could please review and share your thoughts on this bike if possible
Logan is a monster of a rider, well done
Logan rips!!!
Super nice video and Format!!! head to head test of two bikes of slightly different category, riding the same trails. Why not extending this to other ebikes and normal MTB. It would be very useful for riders undecided to buy an Enduro or a Trail bike, a Mullet o full 29er, a XC or Downcountry and many other comparisons! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I rented an Orbea M20 for Bentonville riding. I’m not nearly as aggressive a rider as you guys, but I do like side hits, bunny hops, manuals and felt the Orbea rode like a regular mountain bike trailbike, but with a bit of a tailwind everywhere. Perfect for my style. My home terrain in Michigan would be perfect for a Rise. The Rocky would be way too much machine for my terrain and aggressiveness level (I’m 55 years old!)
Right on Scat, the Rise is a great trail bike.
I love my full power, full weight ebikes. For me it's all about the downhill, if a light weight does a lot better downhill, then I would consider getting one again. For now, I will get more downhills in.
Great video! I feel like the Rise was a game changer for ebikes. Hoping a lot of other companies follows suit soon. You ever gonna try a Transition Spur? I hear they're coming out with a new revision soon, but might take a minute to get a hold of one
Thanks Zad! I'm trying to get a Spire or Sentinel to ride soon, I tend to prefer pedal bikes over the eMTBs. Spur sounds fun, but I'm a bit more into the bigger bikes. Ripley AF with 34 140 Grip2 has almost the same geo as the Spur.
too bad that ripley is so flexy, makes me want to run a pike or 36 on it.
I have a Spur. It’s a great bike, light and climbs well - unlike Jeff I prefer eMTBs but have both in my stable. Super capable, more than I am, on down hill stuff. You have to be a bit more selective about your line choice opposed to Spire. Interested in seeing the new version.
For the 4lb weight diff, I’d take the rocky, hands down.
It also cost like $2500 more. Something not discussed. A better comparison would have been with the alloy rocky.
@@aknmtbr or carbon Orbea M20 weighs 36 lbs
Jeff , please do a review on the new pivot EMTB we would like to see some more of the new SL EMTB's that a new on the market . thank u 👍💪
nice, i like the FF ebike.
Fun video guys! Now I'm curious about the comparison between the Orbea Rise, Pivot Shuttle & Trek Fuel EXe. Then for a heavier and "full" E bike, the Repeater, Rocky etc....
Thanks Mike! Would LOVE to try the Shuttle and the EXe, but not at the expense of regular pedal bikes! I still prefer non-eMTB. Can go further, jump higher, descend faster, etc. Hoping to ride some non-e bikes soon!
@@JeffKendallWeed same Jeff, same 👊🏽
I’d like to see you review the Rocky Mountain element if you can get one. Shorter travel than what you usually ride but I think it should enough for NorCal.
Hey Jeff, great stuff as usual. I used to be "I'm never buying an e-bike" until I rode one and have also thought about getting one of those shotgun seats so my 2 year old can ride with me. I've actually looked into the Rocky Mountain e-bikes, mainly the Altitude. I'm 235 pounds with all my stuff on plus my kiddo is about 25 pounds, so I am *thinking* I'd need something in the 90 ft lbs of torque range with the bigger battery for a nice long ride and to haul us up the hills here in Phoenix. Would be awesome to hear what you think!
If you're doing real mountain biking, I'd dump the shotgun if favor of a MacRide
In the Rocky, what Ride 4 position did you use? Long or short config??
Agree with the assessment of the RM. My Altitude PP absolutely crushes moto trails and eats steeps (20% anybody?) for breakfast. I am continually intrigued by the "light" EMTBs, but would probably look for something closer to 40 lbs. And, I should mention that I installed a 200mm PnW Loam...per JK-W recommendation 🙂
Thanks Snigs! I absolutely LOVE that bike too!!!
@@JeffKendallWeed nice! It's a biggun, but can dance if you lean into it.
Another great video. As always with comparing two bikes, at least the tyres should be the same, to eliminate the traction issue. Besides that the suspension is key and when it differs too much between the both this could also ruin a fair comparison, because the main goal was to give a hint whether 85nm would double the fun compared to 60nm. And except for really steep and tecky climbs it does not seem to. The rest is similar to bio bikes. The more suspension and the slacker, the more stable the bike is - so no big surprise there...🙂
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the ability to carry-a-bike on the trails... I did an "adventure" ride the other day that ended up requiring about a 1-mile hike across 2nd class terrain carrying the bike on my back. I don't think I could have done that with a heavier bike (mine is the Orbea M-TLD at 37.3 lb).
Another great vid!
Question regarding these EMTBs:
I noticed the prices are fairly reasonable, but am wondering which components matter the most ( and which can you skimp on)? Or is it the same as Analog's?
For example, I'm looking at the RM Instinct PowerPlay and it has the Deore groupset which I hear is great but how does this do with the stresses of E-biking? Should you go with XT for reliability? Or the Wheelset? etc... Thanks!
Just really depends on yout budget. I like the rise but rather have a beefier fork. 4 pistons brakes and good strong hubs is a must. I have a 22 levo expert and only stock part left is the cassette,cranks,fork and brakes that I might replace soon.
Deore shifting (and brakes) is functionally and reliably perfect these days, where you need to consider the difference is in using a steel chainring and cassette (and a good chain) as those are the parts which can wear more quickly with the extra power from a pedal assist bike. Also, consider 200mm brake rotors and sintered pads if you ride a lot of downhills (which you will, because its now easier to ride back up them!)
My super light with battery extender allows me to ride all day and with the carbon version it weighs in around 40#
Love my Rise hydro. Does exactly what Iraqis on the tin and can handle 90% of any trails
Great content as always, Jeff. But I gotta say that I think you look better sans beard. Just my two cents!
I’ve had Yt Decoy, Swork Kenevo SL, and Kenevo. Full power all the way. Descends just as fast with way more power on the ups.
The face when you see a bear chasing you, and it was a biker 😅
My Carbon Rise, upgraded with beefier tires, bigger rotors, fox 36 150 fork, comfy saddle, and enduro pedals, weighs in at 42 lbs, almost 10 lbs lighter that the Instinct, and 5 lbs lighter than the bike Jeff rode. I feel like if you are going to do a comparison to a light weight ebike, you should actually use a lightweight bike. It makes a difference. I also ride a full power Levo, and although both bikes have their advantages, I most definitely prefer the Rise almost all the time. I fully admit, I'm not half the rider Jeff is, but hardly anyone else is either.
I have fox transfer 210mm on my Orbea Rise M and it does stick but only about 1 inch. The PNW is really far out.
Yeah I was thinking that the PNW had a pretty long insertion. If I could’ve had that much drop on the Orbea, it would’ve made the bike drastically better and more fun.
I have a 180mm Oneup dropper on my H15, size medium at 5' 8" and it gets my seat completely out of the way for super steep trails. My seat gets at least 3" lower than the PNW 200mm setup in this video.
@@WSinWV mine is a large but in the carbon version. Not sure is of that makes a difference.
The Shimano EP8RS needs a cadence of min.75rpm better up 90-95 rpm,My dropper post with 140mm fits perfect and is completle down.
Why do you do those climbs standing? wouldn't seated climbing help with the traction? maybe it's too steep ...
You realize how steep those climbs they were attempting are right? On that kind of stuff, even the most modern steep seattube angles can't save you from looping over your back wheel and standing is a necessity
I’d take the RM hands down.
Luckily I have a Large H15 which I fit a 210mm One Up V2 dropper slammed to the collar....I also went long stroked for 160mm rear travel w/ a DHX2. Trust Shout up front.
Sounds fun… but be careful! It’s a light bike, I have heard that they are not quite durable enough to be built as a bomber Enduro sled. That said with stock components I have yet to break either a rise or an Occam.
May I know with what camera you are filmed in your videos?
The main camera is my Sony A7siii just with the 24-105 F4 Sony lens. This may be GoPro hero 11 or 8… or if it’s gimbal, then a 7 with a karma grip
Yeah. I was aware of the GoPro but wanted to know the Type of camera for the cool shots. I was hoping to get a more budget friendly camera advice though. :D@@JeffKendallWeed
JKW, I trust you will be reviewing the Oso?
I have no idea, not currently tho. From what I understand they only had a few bikes for media, so they only went out to Ibis' most significant media partners. I also don't get much traction with ebike content, my audience is far more into the pedal stuff.
Is the Fuel EXe 9.9 XX1 the lightest eBike on the market at 40lbs???
Nope. Orbea and Specialized have options in the upper 30 lb range.
Just imagine what E-bikes are going to look like in 10 years
My Rise M20 after all my tidbits on it (minor ugrades/changes) is 41lbs. A bit far from the claimed 38lbs, which maybe is true for the highest build, but still quite a difference from the 47lbs of that aluminum version. Much more of a proper "lightweight" comparison imo than the Hydro version used. Don't have the added battery weight but I rarely even reach 20% on mine.
I have a 22 levo expert and honestly love the power but still yet to drain the battery below 30% on my longest ride. I hope the relay will have a frame option when they release next year.
Being stuck with a 150mm dropper is just a no from me, and so the Orbea is a no sadly. Real shame. There was just no need for them to put the charge port there.
Hey Jeff good vid but maybe you cand find a new thumbnail - this vid should do better. Cheers
Logan can shred man.
Totally, he's a ripper. And he just started riding in late 2017!
I'm sure the RISE is great but.... If I want my bike to feel an MTB I ride my MTB. It's lighter, and can go all day (if I can).
I ride my e-mtb purely for fun. So for me it has to be full power with a big battery.
For a measly 4 lbs. ill take the RM anyday.
I dont think the rise Hydro is "light" at least in my opinion. I have the Carbon M10 model and thats 41lbs with pedals and bottle cage in a medium. The Pivot shuttle sl is probably 38 in the Team XTR build. I would consider those light, they are only 5-6lbs more than trail and enduro bikes.
Fair point, but my Double Down tires add 2-3 pounds over most folks' EXO casing. And some folks even have Fox 34 forks on their Rise models, so overall weight is a very mobile target. In general, no one is going to say that the Rise did not start the "light" eMTB movement, and I find it relevant that despite weighing nearly the same, the different weight distribution compared to the Rocky resulted in a VERY different feeling bike!
@@JeffKendallWeed valid points. I also have an sworks levo and that’s in a different league compared to the orbea rise. The light e MTB category is changing so fast now. Can’t wait to see you review the new ones coming out.
@@sgtkurry Would love to try that light Specialized eMTB as well! Still haven't ridden ANY Specialized eMTBs yet! Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it!
@@JeffKendallWeed I enjoy your videos quite a bit.
@@sgtkurry Thanks man!!!
Rise sounds creaky
why do many orbeas crunch so disgustingly, it's wildly annoying