Fun fact: In the japanese version of Chaos Elfilis is called Soul of chaos which is the exact title the Void Soul use in Star Allies. The description for Chaos Elfilis figure in Japanese also state that after Kirby beat it, it was reborn back into the tiny ball of light that return back to Elfilin which really tie its connection to Void Termina even further
Lab rats and mice often have a small hole punched out of the outside of one of their ears. The same can be seen in Elfilin’s design. It’s an interesting detail and great way of foreshadowing, tying them in to the whole ‘lab rat’ thing going on
Huh. Never knew that. I always figured the hole in Elfilin's ear was supposed to foreshadow something, but I always assumed it was a representation of how he isn't exactly "whole" as he had been separated from his other half. This, of course, has been shown to not be the case as the hole in his ear remains when he merges back with his other half at the very end of the game. Still, interesting stuff!
Wait so what about forgo? Since when Elfilis lost their other half, which is Elfilin and Elfilis taking the form of forgo. Why is one of their ears looks like someone melted them off? Is that also a lab rat related thing or something completely different?
Something about Fecto Forgo, is that when it consumes a creature, it's brought into an alternate dimension. There's one other being in the Kirbyverse which does this: Kirby himself; in Squeak Squad where you actually interact with the things he consumes, in an alternate dimension. Incidentally, Elfilin is also freed from Elfilis inside a bubble... and abilities/consumed objects are stored inside Kirby in a bubble too. And Leon himself was stored in a bubble
@@TopHatMacadamia I know it isn't canon, I just find it interesting that Kirby's pocket dimension was referenced there. At this rate I'd say the pocket dimension is completely canon.
@@sherbertshortkake6649 ok good, just wanted to make sure because you could never know if some random person would just confused the anime and games as being the same (like death battle) Glad to know you are extremely smart. Also I too also believe in the pocket dimension as well.
Some people say that Kirby lore is overhyped and yeah I understand why they’d feel that way But even if that is the case I still enjoy it and think it’s interesting
@@Yundemz There’s nothing wrong with enjoying a series’ lore. I myself believe that people overhype how dark the Kirby lore actually is, but I still find it interesting regardless.
I think the scariest part of this is that fecto Elfilis was captured in the first place. Meaning the original inhabitants or one of them specifically is far more powerful than anything Kirby encountered in the New World
@@pancakes8670 Something likely much like that. They possibly either all joined forces to outnumbered Elfilis and weaken it enough to capture it, or they somehow outsmarted it and lured Elfilis into a trap.
14:57 He actually gained that ability by absorbing a piece of the heart spears. That's what the pink streaks at the beginning of star allies were, fragments of the heart spears.
@@kellenbrewer2798 I like to believe they're Kirby's iteration of Jamba Hearts, because they possess you and make you stronger in the same way... just in a positive way-
the heart spears are shown to be intact in the postgame, so the pink hearts couldn't have come from there. and if the jamba heart had been all dark hearts, those should've been enough to complete it, but they weren't. so i think the pink hearts are definitely fragments of void termina. even more confirmation is that it has a similar ability, and uses it to make kirby's allies attack him.
fun fact: if you attack or “damage” a waddle dee (i’ll just say wd) in wd town, they will fall over on the ground for a few seconds before jumping back up and waving at you. however, if you attack a wd in the elevator, nothing happens, most likely because it’s too scared to “play dead” or whatever the hell you wanna call it
Note: Most kirby games have a acronym with thier stage list that gives the player foresight into the plot if they make sense of it. Forgotten Land’s is N E W O R LD, which like Star Allie’s, it isn’t that important to the plot unlike Triple Deluxe, Robobo, and Return to Dreamland.
I agree that FRIEND wasn't that important for Star Allies, but NEWWORLD feels a bit more important here. Similarly to CROWNED, FLOWER, and PROGRAM, NEWWORLD is related to a central part of the game which in this case is the Forgotten Land. I would even argue that its one of the more important acronyms in the series. Unlike the other acronyms mentioned, NEWWORLD doesn't just refer to one being, but rather an entirely new world that had major events happen even before the events of Dreamland. However, I find it quite ironic that the acronym is NEWWORLD, when technically, it was the old one the inhabitants lived on before moving to Dreamland. But I guess OLDWORLD just doesn't sell as well as NEWWORLD, so thats what stuck in the end.
What are you talking about? The acronym highlights the theme of the game. Star Allies was basically Kirby’s Infinity War where he calls upon the powers of all of his friends.
@@equinox-XVI It could be a parallel to the real life "New World", where it's less about there suddenly being a new world that's sprung into existence, but rather a new world for people to explore. So even though it's a Forgotten Land for the Beast Pack, it's a New World for Kirby and his pals. And I think that's the ultimate significance of it in the post-game.
I’d say the really cool things about the acronyms of those three games foreshadowed the final boss. Crowned is the best one I’d say, since it’s about Magolor taking the master crown, Flowered for Sectonia’s fate, Program for Star Dream. But like, NewWorld doesn’t really say anything about Fecto. This is just me tho. Still a better acronym than Star Allies, but not as better as RTDL, TD or PR.
I remember reading about the dark/dream/heart/soul thing, and knew it had to have implied meaning in the future. Fecto Elfilis being dream matter-related was one of the 1st things that crossed my mind!
Honestly kirby could be all four traits positively manifested. Chaos really is just random chance with no rules and I kinda feel his copy ability fits in with an ever changing nature of chaos.
Fun fact: fecto in Latin means "complete" so fecto forgo could stand for "completely forgotten" a creepy name for an unsettling boss As for chaos elfilis' second phase... miracle matter comes to mind as it uses some of kirby's abilities like cutter and burning
@@penguinstrain huh... I guess Google translate was wrong then... jokes on me for trusting it I thought its name sounded like a scientific classification so I looked it up and that's what came up... with forgo having no direct translation
So ive ive understood it correctly then… Gooey:“let our powers combine! Dark!“ Elfillin:“Dream!“ Mirror World Kirby:“Soul!“ Ribbon:“Heart!“ “By your powers combined i am… POYO“
You forgot to mention how every member of beast pack can't actually speak, and Leongar was only able to because of ID-F86's possession. After you free him, he doesn't say another word. It's likely ID-F86 learned how to speak because of the constant jibber jabber of the scientists surrounding it, especially after it became a tourist destination, with the words, "And here we are," basically being printed into its mind. Likewise, Elfilin can also speak full sentences, being a sub-specimen of ID-F86. The only thing that bothers me about all of this is the implication that Elfilin is 30+ years old.
A lot of people seem to miss that the warp incident happened 30 years before the *narration* was made (and who knows how lazy the tour department of lab discovera was, they could have forgotten to update it for years), not the point in time the game takes place
@@DogsRNice But then again, if the narration is being said by an AI as opposed to a prerecorded message, then 30 years could be accurate (It would make a helluva lot more sense too).
I would like to believe Leongar kept the ability to properly speak after the defeat of of Fecto Elfilis since he was able to speak before being fully possessed.
6:34 Actually established in Kirby's Dreamland 3, with the same character. 12:05 Minor correction: the entire Ultimate Cup Z takes place on the other side of an unexplained rift. 14:55 That ability was granted by a piece of one of the Heart Spears that sealed Void.
Kirby really is the antithesis of below-the-surface story-telling. the boys at HAL labs are probably the best developers on average, what they do, they do extremely well, but they also don't push people out of their comfort zones if they really don't want to, Kirby really is a series for all people.
I interpret Fecto Forgo’s name a bit differently. Forgo literally means ‘to go without’ and Fecto could be like perFECTiOn, so Fecto Forgo’s name is more like ‘Screw perfection, I want REVENGE.’
I think this brought up the existence of soul and dream matter. You touched on soul matter but it’s what all the final bosses look like in their soul form
The way you hear "And here we are!" when phase 2 of the final final boss begins... it's just so creepy and eerie while communicating to you how fed up and angry chaos elfilin is from being trapped in that lab and how it wants revenge against everyone and everything!
I don’t really know if Elfilis is a reincarnation of void, or a creation. Sure, void has been around for a very long time, but if the ancients learned about elfilis a long time ago, either they could determine that elfilis is from void when they were in the forgotten land, or we could have gotten some foreshadowing in star allies if the ancients learned later. I think elfilis is an entity similar to void, but for a different dimension. We’ve already learned that there are parallel versions of Kirby characters, so it’s reasonable to assume void has one too, and even though it has dimension warping abilities, that doesn’t mean it didn’t have a home world.
Well Elfilis was forgotten weren't they? I feel it would play right into the themes Fecto Forgo's name implies (Forgo = forgotten) and the name of the game itself, "Forgotten Land". The Ancients forgot the source of their power and assumed it wasn't important enough to bring up/remember through the ages. But i do find the "Elfilis is just a similar entity to void in another dimension" a very compelling theory as well so I can see it happening.
@@rein9e yes, forgo is similar to “forgotten” but that is just a part of its name right? Of course, we don’t know how long the ancients were away from the forgotten land, but some elders must have remembered their origins right? If those elders did, it would be natural to teach the newer generations like the mage sisters and magalor about it, so they would know via that. Also, thanks for enjoying my theory, it makes sense in my eyes because of the parallel versions mostly, so if you can find pieces of evidence to support it I would like that :)
It makes me sad that I just learned a week ago that in the true arena inside nova ur beating his heart or soul when I gotten to that part I always thought the distorted screams are from nova because I heard cat screams, but now I learned those are haltmann’s screams in agony that’s some dark souls crap
@@ar07-s9m it's a simple correction? both are novae, clockwork stars, but the one in robobot is more specifically star dream I mean, you could _technically_ call both nova but that'd get a bit confusing, no?
The second I saw Chaos Elflis’s attacks in his second from, it was obvious… Remember that all the attacks below, mirroring a boss mean the entity is likely another form of void Dark Matter, Zero and Dark Mind Drawcia Master Crown Sectonia Nova/Star Dream/Marx(it’s likely the powers the ancients used to create nova are the from void) Add Fecto Elflis to list…
Honestly I think Kirby *is* a soulslike at this point. It even has the same boss structure: - Beast - Beast, with a weapon - Hidden Forbidden Darkness of Old (easier than you think) - [Blank] Knight (much harder than you think)
Something I find funny is that before the game came out I said, jokingly, to a friend that “unless the ancients liked building amusement parks, I don’t think this game will have much lore,” and then the game heavily hints towards a connection between the long lost race and Pop Star along with the ability to travel through dimensions like the Lor Starcutter
The implications of the ancient civilization abandoning the planet are terrifying. Fertile planets are immensely valuable and not something a civilization would leave behind without a very good reason. What was that reason, you ask? Well, recall how Leon was possessed by Fecto Forgo and understand that a king is a just a politician without checks and balances. It's likely that the ancient civilization had a capitalist system, given all of the theme parks, malls, and vending machines. I think they also had a democracy, since checks and balances are needed to counteract FF's power of possession. They likely even tried a council of elected leaders, rather than a singular president. However, despite their best efforts, I believe that FF managed to stealthily and strategically corrupt the minds of politicians, businesspeople, and religious leaders to gain power and harm society in order to instill fear. The public may have even been left in the dark because the leaders were too afraid of what people would do if they knew their leaders were being possessed by an evil psychic alien. Why didn't they kill FF if a few basic attacks and slamming him with a truck was enough for Kirby to do the job? Well, it's likely that they tried this already and it lead to something similar to what's in the post game of Forgotten Land. Somehow, FF may have been able to regain a body, leaving them back at square one and having to recapture FF. It's likely that at this point, the council of leaders decided that abandoning the planet was the best option for protecting what remained of their society and future generations from FF's influence. We can only speculate, but this is my headcanon.
I just assumed the people of the forgotten land advanced their technology so much from researching FF that they went through the singularity and so they had no need for the physical world anymore
That's not a bad theory, but its greatest flaw is that it'd seem they were doing just fine before leaving their planet, most buildings were intact and there's no sign of corruption/rebellion at all. Since Magolor is kind of a capitalist, I would believe this group of ancients were as well... I mean, Magolor seems to know an awful lot about them, and I think he wouldn't mind following their steps-
This is hearsay, but I heard that in one Japanese Gotcha figure's flavor text, it mentions that the people of the New World left because it had gotten too small, which is to say likely because of overpopulation. (Why they didn't have anyone stay there is a mystery.)
I like how this implies the final form of chaos elfilis is just a really specific chemical mixture of Dream, heart, darkness and soul to form a void-like entity.
I don't think it was deleted, just absorbed. At the end of the fight you can see the shape of F86 teleporting the fuck away. Perhaps after you kill morpho, Soul forgo took that power and then became chaos elfilis? I mean, I'm not the most well versed in kirb lore but it makes sense to me, at least.
I know that Soul Forgo did escape Morpho Knight and eventually became Chaos Elfilis, it was just a joke about how Soul Forgo was about to be a boss and then the butterfly appeared Just like Galacta Knight in the last game
Could dream matter also tie into the abilities of the Star Rod and the Fountain of Dreams? Could Nightmare be related to this dream matter as well? The four knights who sealed Void Termina originally, could each one of them have represented the 4 types of matter mentioned? This raises so many questions, and I hope it sparks discussion among fans!
That actually makes me think of something What if Nightmare was an ancient cappable of using dark matter AND dream matter at the same time? That would make so much sense...
@@marceloquintamar2613 That would make sense. Star Allies implies that Dark Matter is made from negative emotions, so maybe his plan was to use the fountain of dreams in order to give the the residents of dreamland nightmares so he could harness dark energy from their bad dreams.
@@marceloquintamar2613 Remember Dark Mind from Amazing Mirror and how he seems to be the mirror version of both Nightmare and Zero? I think there’s definitely a connection between Nightmare and dark matter.
@Frahd Chikun It’s hinted that Galacta Knight is one of the four heroes with how he can summon heart spears in Super Kirby Clash. Which matter would he represent? It could possibly be dark matter, since he only uses his heart spear attack when in his dark form.
So if Fecto Forgo is to Elfilin as Dark Matter is to Kirby then this implies other versions of Dream matter like elfilin. Even more so, Fecto Forgo being an invasive species implies that Elfilin came from a dimension with more Dream matter than what we've seen. Additionally Elfilin being a small part of Fecto Forgo that becomes good means that Elfilin isn't a Dream matter version of Kirby, but instead he's a dream matter version of....gooey. Elfilin is Gooey.
Theory: the Ancients developed dimensional technology after studying Fecto Forgo, and left to Dreamland sometime after the incident that caused Fecto Forgo to split Elfilin off as a separate entity. Fecto Forgo comes from another dimension, and if assumed to be Dream-aligned, may well have originated in Dreamland before invading the Forgotten Land; the Ancients may have discovered Dreamland by tracing Fecto Forgo's origin using the tech they reverse engineered from FF's rift abilities, and deeming it safe/empty, decided to make it their new home. ...Of course 'FF originated in Dreamland' is reliant on such a ridiculous amount of tangential, potentially pure coincidental 'evidence' (if it can even be called that), that i can't even call this my new headcannon, just speculation i made up on-the-spot in response to your post, but, y'know. As far as speculation goes, it actually builds off of what was discussed in this video surprisingly well...
No, elfilin is to elfilis as gooey is to dark matter. A small good part that separates from the main evil Kirby would be more like dark matter's uncle if the family tree goes: Void ↙ ↘ kirby Zero ⬇ Dark matter
Funny how the *Warp* Star and the Star Rifts have similar travel capabilities… Also, the parts where time skips around a bit seems like time runs at different rates relative to each dimension.
That is the case. Consider when the Dees made a town unusually quickly, or when Elfilin is found and returned to Dreamland in a matter of seconds by Clawroline.
I think it gets even weirder, the rift from the beginning of the game is the exact same one that is created at the end of the main story (from the perspective of popstar it seems to have multiple sub rifts or something) Kirby's entire adventure took place in a matter of minutes or even seconds on popstar
It is very well put-together and informative, but there are some minor inaccuracies, like his placement of the "unexplained rift" in the Ultimate Cup Z - it's not before Chaos Elfilis, but the actually source/setting of the entire cup.
Was I the only one that was really surprised when I saw kirby fleeing from the vortex in the first cutscene? Usually, kirby never hesitates when it comes to protecting Popstar and his friends...
Well flying into a black hole doesn't sound like the brightest idea and besides he didn't have a semi yet, he hadn't reached his fully power lmao Like if it was a fortress it makes sense but since it's sucking things up this gives it a black hole nature and Kirby has some serious experience with "if it sucks you up it's bad" (I:e Marx, Magolor, Sectonia(?) Star Dream
I don’t think that the Ancients are the ones who left the planet for Popstar. I think the people left were the people who studied science and banished the Ancients. Hence the the more civilized world and science-like Lad Discovera.
It's possible that this group was the scientific ancients, who based the Novas and Lor Starcutter (among other devices) off of it. Fecto Forgo's capsule chamber resembles the room the Heart of Nova is in, complete with a heart-shaped entity in a tube in the center.
@@sherbertshortkake6649 I think what he is getting at is to us it was nearly immediate with Elfilin popping back up after the dramatic farewell, And afterwards when you talk to Elfilin he says that Clawroline found him and nursed him back to health, so this implies that there was some passage of time between the farewell and the reunion. ....Probably some time dilation going on.
I personally think that the ancients and whoever lived in the forgotten land were not the same, considering hyness and magolor look nothing like humans and I believe it was stated that halcandra used to be the home of the ancients not the forgotten land
There's no proof that humans inhabited the Forgotten Land either, their civilization just looks like ours because they probably figured that was most effective as we did... however, we DO get to hear something interesting about them... Lightron was a huge corporation involved in all sorts of investigations and advancements, in short, they were the ones leading the road for their civilization to reach absolute success, maximum profit, and a future of thriving... _until they split up._ Look at me, dead in the eye, and tell me... do you really think *THAT* is a coincidence?
@@The94Venom but it doesn't seem like there were any magic users in the forgotten land and the architecture in it looks nothing like any of the ancients artifacts (lor, star rod, clockwork stars, possibly master crown etc) or architecture (divine terminus, jambastion). Even egg engines doesn't look very similar to the factory in forgotten land and the factory and architecture on shiver star certainly don't. I'd personally theorize the ancients in the forgotten land were like haltmann and susie since at the very least rhythm route is similar to the cities we see in forgotten land just more cartoonish
@@The94Venom but the animals and wildlife are the exact same as those on earth, and plus wouldn’t the world of an alien civilization look a little more…alien?
personally i believe that the forgotten land is the... lets just say 'real world'. As you mentioned in the video specimen ID-F86 came to this land through the star portals and laid waste to the land. They were eventually captured and experimented on. This lead to the creation of the ancients machines which allowed them to travel through these star portals implied by the "planetary warp technology we use today". However ID-F86 has a secondary ability, the creation of dreams, i dont know if it was mentioned in the video but the fact that 'forgo dreams' is a place that has manifested due to the destruction of one of these star portal users and created a realm where their soul resides. It may be possible that dreamland and the whole world of kirby is one such place where the starcutter was destroyed and those that were boarded on the starcutter became lost souls as did specimen ID-F86. This led to the creation of many creatures that inhabit the land such as void, drawcia, magolor, marx, sectonia and even possibly the star dream as it has a soul of its own.
Something I don't see anyone talk about is that the automated voice mentions how "30 years ago" a warp experiment accident or failure happened at the facility. You know what else happened 30 years ago? Kirby's first game. What if... and I know this idea isn't true, but just what if... the accident is what caused Kirby to wind up in Dreamland?
@@TheRealSuperKirby I was mistaken, the "30 years" thing was actually "30 years AFTER" IDF-86 showed up and started causing problems. That's when the incident happened. My mistake, I'm sorry.
what I have managed to gather is that there is a wild and chaotic force in Kirby's universe, that when concentrated with either good or bad emotions becomes a good or evil entity. Kirby is the good, Void is the evil. what this Forgo being seems to be is this negative force combined with another, a void combined with the magic of dreams perhaps, this would make Elfilin a version of good energy combined with the dream magic, the Kirby counterpart to Forgo.
So I'm absolutely down with kirby being a step in the right direction for void and elfilin being the same for our new friend, gooey possibly being that equivalent for dark matter as well so all of that being said..what does that make meta knight? We know what he is, same species as Kirby...but I feel like meta knight has to shed some light somewhere in this ya know?
When i first played Forgotten land and through Chaos Elfilis true final boss It legit gave me flashbacks of Heart of Nova Specifically Star dream in Robobot Especially with the Cutter attack both Star dream's Heart of Nova and Chaos Elfilis Use Alongside with it being the fact you literally fight their soul
Almost all the soul bosses share the same attacks all the way back to Drawcia Soul. If anything it seems to be powers you automatically gain by using Soul matter.
I know its a little unrelated but Kirby music is just soo good! I somehow forget just how great it is, but remember clear as day when its played in the background of videos like this. XD
I just realized something, if GalactaKnight is a reincarnation of Astral Birth Void/The Elements, then The Butterfly/MorphoKnight has absorbed two of these reincarnations and might be absorbing them specifically to do... something, maybe involving an apocalypse of some kind. The theory could use some workshoping, but I feel like I'm on to something.
The dominant civilization-forming species in the Forgotten Land “disappeared into a land of dreams” and left the miscellaneous animals of the Beast Pack behind. I think when it says the Wastes Where Life Began it’s referring to the fact the Originull Wasteland is a dried up ocean, so if the forgotten land is akin to Earth, then life began and evolved from the ocean, which by extension refers to where the Beast Pack Originated if the beast pack just refers to all the animals left behind by the humans who ascended or whatever. Also “Fecto” means “Complete”, or “completely” in Latin, although Forgo appears to be a made up word, so perhaps the name Fecto Forgo roughly translates to Completely Forgotten? Also if Fecto Forgo was released after Morpho absorbed it, then was defeated, then I guess that implies Galacta Knight might also be okay after being disintegrated by that damn butterfly in Star Allies? Or maybe Galacta’s soul is still chilling out in the butterfly. Maybe he likes his new role?
That's funny, I always thought "Fecto" had something to do with being defective or imperfect and being perfect at the same time depending on which form of Elfilis you fight.
Fecto Elfilis really had the BALLS to call itself the ultimate lifeform when Kirby's right next to it lmao. A pink ball capable of absorbing and copying any power, and still retain its stable original form after discarding abilities. Besides, can Fecto Elfilis drive an 18-wheeler? No, no it can't. Kirby wins.
I love to call Elfilis “Shadow The Hedgehog” because of his subtitle. It’s perfect, because I get to make a dumb joke about the boss AND have a spoiler-free codename for my friends who haven’t played the game yet.
The only thing I'd add is that Kirby doesn't naturally have the ability to create or throw friend hearts either. In the opening cutscene of Star Allies, one of the first notable things that happen is that Kirby gets hit by a fragment of the Jamba heart's enclosing spears, awakening him from his sleep. This shard grants him the ability to create and throw friend hearts, and access friend abilities. Likewise, in the Forgotten Land, his new ability is that of mouthful mode to operate on inanimate objects.
I like your analogies on the Kirby verse. I think with some more fleshing out of the lore there could be a really cool universe! The physical world versus dream world. Also this Forgo world got me intrigued. I noticed the theme song of the Forgo Isle is named, " faded dream of a psycho meddler ". Just really cool
All I’m saying is that Elfilis didn’t take/copy moves from void, but it would make sense if it was the other way around. Meaning that even in the future, villains will still be traced back to void
Leaving the forgotten land and going into a land of dreams doesn’t necessarily mean they went to dream land or planet Popstar at all, but simply travelled to Kirby’s universe to find a new home, my theory is the Shiver Star was the new planet they colonized which was once earth, however something bad happened there leading the planet going into a snow apocalypse and forcing the ancients underground. I just want point out the similarities between Shiver Star’s finale boss level and the one where we fight Fecto Elfilis in forgotten land, the buildings in the background of both games are black with red lights probably suggesting they where built by the same civilization. I believe Adeline from crystal shards is the last of the ancients.
Chaos, Heart, Dreams, Darkness So many controversial topics for Kirby Meanwhile I’m just wondering when Kirby will finally learn how to speak properly.
@@magma1675 I know what you mean, but the fact that we’ve only ever gotten implied speaking and short instances of barely any dialogue doesn’t really feel like Kirby actually speaking imo. Even if it’s implied he can it doesn’t feel like it
It's kinda weird that I found many comparable moments when I was looking at the map and thought this was many centuries after the events of Mother 3 and you can find some places in the first half of the land that resemble places in EARTHBOUND
What I wonder though is what the next super boss will be elfilis is dead I thought maybe a manifestation of there hate or an old foe returning this game has a lot of weird enemies a few of which have only appeared along with zero I’ve counted 5 enemies that are in this game that only appear beside zero
Most Kirby games bring in a new main antagonist - very rarely does one return, Zero and Dark Matter being the notable exceptions, with Dark Meta Knight being a background antagonist in Triple Deluxe.
I don’t think they moved to dream land the ancients probably went somewhere we have never seen just because they say a land of dreams doesn’t mean dreamland doesn’t that seem to obvious for Kirby lore which is often vague to just straight up say hey these people went to dream land beside if they did then what Is the place land is now rules that’s where I think they went I mean look at it its the burning ruins of a super advanced civilization
I'm with you, Scott. There's no special text, no special color, or anything when Leongar says "land of dreams". While I do agree the obvious connection is Dreamland, it's almost definitely a red herring. We're talking about a group of people that were advanced enough to duplicate and utilize warp technology, and build massive structures. They had the technology to build actual, wish-granting supercomputers! Had they made it to Popstar, we'd absolutely be seeing more evidence. Instead we get...nothing. No, I say. The 'land of dreams' is a place we either haven't seen yet, or Shiver Star. And if it's Shiver Star, then something went VERY wrong with their plan.
@@Red-gw3ju Additionally, we literally visit a world of dreams, in that Isolated Isles is literally a dream world that ID-F86 formed/retreated to, talking Leongar with them.
@@DJ-0 Per the wiki Kirby 64 instruction manual: Adeleine, an aspiring artist, comes to Pop Star to study art." Japanese instruction manual: A girl who came to Pop Star to study painting. From Star Allies: "...are back on Planet Popstar!" It's probably important to note that Adeleine is listed as Human, per the wiki, in all of her appearances. Ergo, we should assume she ages as a normal human. If she were actually an Ancient, the first and second entry I listed would make no sense. Granted we don't know how long ago the Ancients left, but she'd be pretty ancient herself at this point. You could argue maybe they had tech to lengthen their lifespans, but we haven't seen anything like that in the games outside of the entire race wishing for eternal youth from a Clockwork Star. I mean, it's possible, but all speculation at this point. The third entry basically confirms that Adeleine travels between worlds/dimensions regularly. Likely using her own abilities. Thinking about it, she basically has the Clockwork Star's wishing powers, but condensed and weakened to be used in a paint form for personal use. I would believe that Adeliene is an Ancient. But I find it much more likely she's just a visitor on Pop Star. She may actually know where the Ancients currently are, but we've never had a reason for her to tell us yet.
Something that I think is really important and that the game doesn't explicitly throw in your face is the timeline involving the probably-human population of the New World. Not only do I think that these people are connected to the Ancients, I think they drastically *pre-date* the Ancients. Their tech level lines up with this theory - they're obviously advanced enough to create things like Elfilis' containment unit and derive warp technology from them, but still nowhere near the level of what the Ancients created. So how? The hints are there from the very start of the game. There is a GIGANTIC time dilation between Kirby's dimension and the dimension of the New World. In the few seconds between the Waddle Dees/Meta Knight/Dedede/everyone else getting sucked into the rift and Kirby getting sucked in, they all had enough time to: - build an entire TOWN - have Meta Knight fend off Gorimondo THIRTY TIMES and then still have time to explore to the fourth area and come back - have the town destroyed - have the Waddle Dees kidnapped and Dedede brainwashed - have the Waddle Dees taken all the way to Lab Discovera to power things there That's the work of several weeks at minimum. If there's that much time discrepancy between the New World's dimension and Kirby's dimension, imagine how long ago it must have been that the New World's previous inhabitants came here? Long enough to refine their technology and start building truly incredible things like the Master Crown, NOVAs, et cetera... Added fun fact that's relevant here: the Lor Starcutter is confirmed capable of time travel.
Can't forget to mention how the New World has LOADS of vegetation and everything is extremely run down. Also an ENTIRE OCEAN DRIED UP. That must've taken DECADES for all of that to happen. If the time dilation is that large, then the people of the New World must have had enough time to evolve like they did.
I forget where I saw this, but I saw somewhere that Fecto means “Completed” in Roman or something. While Forgo is a shortened form of Forgotten. This would mean Fecto Forgo means “Completely Forgotten” and Fecto Elfilis is “Completed Elfilis” But again, I forget where I saw this. I think the Kirby wiki iirc using context clues for both Fecto Forgo and Fecto Elfilis’s pages.
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
“To prevent the destruction of both worlds, Kirby inhales a semi truck” has got to be one of the best sentences I’ve ever heard
FINALLY A A NORMAL ONE EVERYONE SO SERIOUS
The power of isekai
The power of the TRUCKY KUN
T R U C K
AUTOBOTS. ROLL OUT.
Fun fact: In the japanese version of Chaos Elfilis is called Soul of chaos which is the exact title the Void Soul use in Star Allies. The description for Chaos Elfilis figure in Japanese also state that after Kirby beat it, it was reborn back into the tiny ball of light that return back to Elfilin which really tie its connection to Void Termina even further
Void is the New dark matter
@@mobgabriel1767 I mean dark matter comes from void
@@CallMeConch I mean Kirby is Void but born from love and compassion. Being a literal entity of pure joy and happiness.
really!? :0
@@Chara_Dreemurr1 yeah I know
Lab rats and mice often have a small hole punched out of the outside of one of their ears. The same can be seen in Elfilin’s design. It’s an interesting detail and great way of foreshadowing, tying them in to the whole ‘lab rat’ thing going on
BLUE RAT
I knew I was right to call elfilin Kirby’s pet rat
Damn. That's pretty clever.
Huh. Never knew that. I always figured the hole in Elfilin's ear was supposed to foreshadow something, but I always assumed it was a representation of how he isn't exactly "whole" as he had been separated from his other half.
This, of course, has been shown to not be the case as the hole in his ear remains when he merges back with his other half at the very end of the game. Still, interesting stuff!
Wait so what about forgo? Since when Elfilis lost their other half, which is Elfilin and Elfilis taking the form of forgo. Why is one of their ears looks like someone melted them off? Is that also a lab rat related thing or something completely different?
Something about Fecto Forgo, is that when it consumes a creature, it's brought into an alternate dimension. There's one other being in the Kirbyverse which does this: Kirby himself; in Squeak Squad where you actually interact with the things he consumes, in an alternate dimension. Incidentally, Elfilin is also freed from Elfilis inside a bubble... and abilities/consumed objects are stored inside Kirby in a bubble too. And Leon himself was stored in a bubble
I swear to god if we make squeak squads bubble menu an important part of Kirby lore I'm gonna cry
@@inshaneindamembrane8043 You're too late, it already is ;)
Even mentioned in a Kirby Right Back At Ya' episode.
@@sherbertshortkake6649 Sadly Right Back At Ya' isn't canon, but Kirby's pocket dimension can still be true.
@@TopHatMacadamia I know it isn't canon, I just find it interesting that Kirby's pocket dimension was referenced there. At this rate I'd say the pocket dimension is completely canon.
@@sherbertshortkake6649 ok good, just wanted to make sure because you could never know if some random person would just confused the anime and games as being the same (like death battle)
Glad to know you are extremely smart. Also I too also believe in the pocket dimension as well.
Forgot how nuts Kirby lore is, I actually really liked this one, Kirby lore is so interesting to me tbh
Omg same lol
100th like in this
Some people say that Kirby lore is overhyped and yeah I understand why they’d feel that way
But even if that is the case I still enjoy it and think it’s interesting
shut up loser
@@Yundemz There’s nothing wrong with enjoying a series’ lore. I myself believe that people overhype how dark the Kirby lore actually is, but I still find it interesting regardless.
I think the scariest part of this is that fecto Elfilis was captured in the first place. Meaning the original inhabitants or one of them specifically is far more powerful than anything Kirby encountered in the New World
Not necessarily- an elephant is far, far beyond human strength, but it'll fall into a suitably large pit if you disguise it well.
@@Physbrkr Perhaps the inhabitants of the Forgotten Land managed to combine forces in Elfilis somehow. Strength in numbers
@@pancakes8670 Something likely much like that. They possibly either all joined forces to outnumbered Elfilis and weaken it enough to capture it, or they somehow outsmarted it and lured Elfilis into a trap.
Elephants are retarded compared to Elfilis
I think it’s the other way around, and that he is not that strong solely for this reason lol
14:57
He actually gained that ability by absorbing a piece of the heart spears. That's what the pink streaks at the beginning of star allies were, fragments of the heart spears.
personaly i think the pink hearts were part of the jamba heart, cause void termina isnt pure negative.
@@kellenbrewer2798 I like to believe they're Kirby's iteration of Jamba Hearts, because they possess you and make you stronger in the same way... just in a positive way-
the heart spears are shown to be intact in the postgame, so the pink hearts couldn't have come from there.
and if the jamba heart had been all dark hearts, those should've been enough to complete it, but they weren't.
so i think the pink hearts are definitely fragments of void termina. even more confirmation is that it has a similar ability, and uses it to make kirby's allies attack him.
I think the name of the level, “The wastes were life began” is referencing how the desert was originally an ocean, and life began in the ocean.
That is the dumbest assumption I've never heard
Makes sense. After all, the first cells developed in water.
fun fact: if you attack or “damage” a waddle dee (i’ll just say wd) in wd town, they will fall over on the ground for a few seconds before jumping back up and waving at you. however, if you attack a wd in the elevator, nothing happens, most likely because it’s too scared to “play dead” or whatever the hell you wanna call it
Don’t wanna burst your bubble, but that isn’t a fact since it’s just your interpretation
@@revthescatman137 dont believe me? try it yourself
The dees where _pretending_
@@ghoulbuster1 EXACTLY
Love waddle dees being tougher
I’ve always thought “Fecto” was a play on the phrase “Perfecto”, since Fecto is supposed to be the ultimate (in other words, _perfect_ ) life form
Fecto is Latin for "Completed"
Fecto forgo would be forgone completion then?
@@ArceusDX oh... well fuck, how did nobody attempt to translate this shit into Latin? God damnit, this should be standard procedure.
Ultimate doesn’t necessarily imply perfection, just that this is as far as you’re gonna get
@@shadowsnake5133 people already knew. People learn latin in school sometimes.
I kinda wish that after Elfilin and fecto fuse at the end that his his little ear things became conplete. I think that would have been cool
Fusion can only heal psychological trauma.
I was expecting that would happen
@@The94Venom only sensu beans can heal physical trauma
@@memeinatorun-official144 - Hey, little blue !
- My name is Elfilin.
Note: Most kirby games have a acronym with thier stage list that gives the player foresight into the plot if they make sense of it.
Forgotten Land’s is N E W O R LD, which like Star Allie’s, it isn’t that important to the plot unlike Triple Deluxe, Robobo, and Return to Dreamland.
I agree that FRIEND wasn't that important for Star Allies, but NEWWORLD feels a bit more important here.
Similarly to CROWNED, FLOWER, and PROGRAM, NEWWORLD is related to a central part of the game which in this case is the Forgotten Land. I would even argue that its one of the more important acronyms in the series. Unlike the other acronyms mentioned, NEWWORLD doesn't just refer to one being, but rather an entirely new world that had major events happen even before the events of Dreamland.
However, I find it quite ironic that the acronym is NEWWORLD, when technically, it was the old one the inhabitants lived on before moving to Dreamland. But I guess OLDWORLD just doesn't sell as well as NEWWORLD, so thats what stuck in the end.
@@equinox-XVI honestly I can see the NEWWORLD existing in a New Dimension parallel to Another Dimension and Kirby's universe
What are you talking about? The acronym highlights the theme of the game.
Star Allies was basically Kirby’s Infinity War where he calls upon the powers of all of his friends.
@@equinox-XVI It could be a parallel to the real life "New World", where it's less about there suddenly being a new world that's sprung into existence, but rather a new world for people to explore. So even though it's a Forgotten Land for the Beast Pack, it's a New World for Kirby and his pals. And I think that's the ultimate significance of it in the post-game.
I’d say the really cool things about the acronyms of those three games foreshadowed the final boss.
Crowned is the best one I’d say, since it’s about Magolor taking the master crown, Flowered for Sectonia’s fate, Program for Star Dream. But like, NewWorld doesn’t really say anything about Fecto. This is just me tho. Still a better acronym than Star Allies, but not as better as RTDL, TD or PR.
I remember reading about the dark/dream/heart/soul thing, and knew it had to have implied meaning in the future. Fecto Elfilis being dream matter-related was one of the 1st things that crossed my mind!
Does anyone else see the skybox of Chaos Elfilis as the inside of void terminals shell (when you first go inside void termina)?
I compared it to Giygas tbh, but you are right!
Honestly kirby could be all four traits positively manifested. Chaos really is just random chance with no rules and I kinda feel his copy ability fits in with an ever changing nature of chaos.
Fun fact: fecto in Latin means "complete" so fecto forgo could stand for "completely forgotten" a creepy name for an unsettling boss
As for chaos elfilis' second phase... miracle matter comes to mind as it uses some of kirby's abilities like cutter and burning
It doesn’t... facto means complete. Fecto is not even a word in latin
@@penguinstrain huh... I guess Google translate was wrong then... jokes on me for trusting it
I thought its name sounded like a scientific classification so I looked it up and that's what came up... with forgo having no direct translation
@@nathan714 google translate is wacky bro
So ive ive understood it correctly then…
Gooey:“let our powers combine! Dark!“
Elfillin:“Dream!“
Mirror World Kirby:“Soul!“
Ribbon:“Heart!“
“By your powers combined i am… POYO“
CAPTAIN KIRBO
I like to believe the"...WITH THE POWER OF FREINDSHIP! and this gun i found along the way"
@@tsukihotaru8421 ranger ability in a nutshell
Crystal Gun was the OG tho
The four matters lived in harmony. But everything changed when the dark matter attacked
“And here we are” that line still gives me chills
You forgot to mention how every member of beast pack can't actually speak, and Leongar was only able to because of ID-F86's possession. After you free him, he doesn't say another word. It's likely ID-F86 learned how to speak because of the constant jibber jabber of the scientists surrounding it, especially after it became a tourist destination, with the words, "And here we are," basically being printed into its mind. Likewise, Elfilin can also speak full sentences, being a sub-specimen of ID-F86.
The only thing that bothers me about all of this is the implication that Elfilin is 30+ years old.
A lot of people seem to miss that the warp incident happened 30 years before the *narration* was made (and who knows how lazy the tour department of lab discovera was, they could have forgotten to update it for years), not the point in time the game takes place
@@DogsRNice
But then again, if the narration is being said by an AI as opposed to a prerecorded message, then 30 years could be accurate (It would make a helluva lot more sense too).
@@DementedDuskull
I just figured it had been hundreds or even thousands of years, since you know, the land has been forgotten by history.
30 years pre elfilin. After could of been anywhere from a week to a millennia.
I would like to believe Leongar kept the ability to properly speak after the defeat of of Fecto Elfilis since he was able to speak before being fully possessed.
It’s always scary when all the other characters have written dialogue, and then one has spoken dialogue.
*"AND HERE WE ARE."*
Fecto Forgo looks like a hellspawn, this game suprised me with Lore honestly.
6:34 Actually established in Kirby's Dreamland 3, with the same character.
12:05 Minor correction: the entire Ultimate Cup Z takes place on the other side of an unexplained rift.
14:55 That ability was granted by a piece of one of the Heart Spears that sealed Void.
Ultimate Cup Z is still canon though so it doesnt matter.
Lol the "king dededes item description" killed me
There's also a reference in game to Void. Bits of Elfilis' theme sound *eerily* similar to Void Termina's theme.
Thank you almighty king dedede
@@tiger-Bolt248 np
glad i'm not the only one who picked up on that
King dedede unite
@@PJWooperIsBack And here I thought Fecto Forgo was creepy..
Kirby really is the antithesis of below-the-surface story-telling.
the boys at HAL labs are probably the best developers on average, what they do, they do extremely well, but they also don't push people out of their comfort zones if they really don't want to, Kirby really is a series for all people.
When I saw morpho knight in my blind playthrough I legitimately yelled "MORPHO KNIGHT IS CANNON NOW!"
I interpret Fecto Forgo’s name a bit differently. Forgo literally means ‘to go without’ and Fecto could be like perFECTiOn, so Fecto Forgo’s name is more like ‘Screw perfection, I want REVENGE.’
Forgo is also likely taken from *forgo* tten.
Fecto is latin for complete. Fecto forgo mean Completed Forgo
I forgor 💀
@@TopOfAllWorlds
completely forgotten
forgo is albvoiosly forgotten so that would make sense
I think this brought up the existence of soul and dream matter. You touched on soul matter but it’s what all the final bosses look like in their soul form
The way you hear "And here we are!" when phase 2 of the final final boss begins... it's just so creepy and eerie while communicating to you how fed up and angry chaos elfilin is from being trapped in that lab and how it wants revenge against everyone and everything!
I can hear you smiling at 9:52 when you're trying not to point out how amazing the Semi-truck section is.
I don’t really know if Elfilis is a reincarnation of void, or a creation. Sure, void has been around for a very long time, but if the ancients learned about elfilis a long time ago, either they could determine that elfilis is from void when they were in the forgotten land, or we could have gotten some foreshadowing in star allies if the ancients learned later. I think elfilis is an entity similar to void, but for a different dimension. We’ve already learned that there are parallel versions of Kirby characters, so it’s reasonable to assume void has one too, and even though it has dimension warping abilities, that doesn’t mean it didn’t have a home world.
This also means we may eventually get to see Fecto Forgo's home dimension
Well Elfilis was forgotten weren't they? I feel it would play right into the themes Fecto Forgo's name implies (Forgo = forgotten) and the name of the game itself, "Forgotten Land". The Ancients forgot the source of their power and assumed it wasn't important enough to bring up/remember through the ages. But i do find the "Elfilis is just a similar entity to void in another dimension" a very compelling theory as well so I can see it happening.
@@rein9e yes, forgo is similar to “forgotten” but that is just a part of its name right? Of course, we don’t know how long the ancients were away from the forgotten land, but some elders must have remembered their origins right? If those elders did, it would be natural to teach the newer generations like the mage sisters and magalor about it, so they would know via that. Also, thanks for enjoying my theory, it makes sense in my eyes because of the parallel versions mostly, so if you can find pieces of evidence to support it I would like that :)
@abloodcorpse I never thought about that but now I’m excited for that
Void exists in all dimensions. There is no alternate universe version of him because he goes beyond reality.
Mewtwo: "Finally, a worthy opponent."
"Our battle will be-!"
_Both get defeated simultaneously by a 10 year old and pink puffball_
Shadow the hedgehog: "amateurs"
*11 year old
It makes me sad that I just learned a week ago that in the true arena inside nova ur beating his heart or soul when I gotten to that part I always thought the distorted screams are from nova because I heard cat screams, but now I learned those are haltmann’s screams in agony that’s some dark souls crap
that's star dream, not galactic nova
@@SoməøneXD 🤓 moment
@@ar07-s9m it's a simple correction? both are novae, clockwork stars, but the one in robobot is more specifically star dream
I mean, you could _technically_ call both nova but that'd get a bit confusing, no?
@@SoməøneXD novae?
No way Kirby lore goes this hard
Also this game looks insanely fun I really wanna play now
All the games have crazy lore
@@blakedarrius9602 best part is that it's probably gonna get even crazier after dlc
Kirby lore is absolutely nutty
Oh boy you have no idea.
The second I saw Chaos Elflis’s attacks in his second from, it was obvious…
Remember that all the attacks below, mirroring a boss mean the entity is likely another form of void
Dark Matter, Zero and Dark Mind
Drawcia
Master Crown
Sectonia
Nova/Star Dream/Marx(it’s likely the powers the ancients used to create nova are the from void)
Add Fecto Elflis to list…
Why does Kirby have lore deeper then any souls like
Honestly I think Kirby *is* a soulslike at this point. It even has the same boss structure:
- Beast
- Beast, with a weapon
- Hidden Forbidden Darkness of Old (easier than you think)
- [Blank] Knight (much harder than you think)
@@normal6483 well is does now have a dodge roll
And why is most of it hidden in the pause screen?
@@danielf.7151 now it's hidden in gacha
@@danielf.7151 like a modern doom game
And forgotten land adds a gun copy ability
So Kirby is becoming a 3d platforming souls like doom clone
Something I find funny is that before the game came out I said, jokingly, to a friend that “unless the ancients liked building amusement parks, I don’t think this game will have much lore,” and then the game heavily hints towards a connection between the long lost race and Pop Star along with the ability to travel through dimensions like the Lor Starcutter
The implications of the ancient civilization abandoning the planet are terrifying. Fertile planets are immensely valuable and not something a civilization would leave behind without a very good reason. What was that reason, you ask? Well, recall how Leon was possessed by Fecto Forgo and understand that a king is a just a politician without checks and balances. It's likely that the ancient civilization had a capitalist system, given all of the theme parks, malls, and vending machines. I think they also had a democracy, since checks and balances are needed to counteract FF's power of possession. They likely even tried a council of elected leaders, rather than a singular president. However, despite their best efforts, I believe that FF managed to stealthily and strategically corrupt the minds of politicians, businesspeople, and religious leaders to gain power and harm society in order to instill fear. The public may have even been left in the dark because the leaders were too afraid of what people would do if they knew their leaders were being possessed by an evil psychic alien. Why didn't they kill FF if a few basic attacks and slamming him with a truck was enough for Kirby to do the job? Well, it's likely that they tried this already and it lead to something similar to what's in the post game of Forgotten Land. Somehow, FF may have been able to regain a body, leaving them back at square one and having to recapture FF. It's likely that at this point, the council of leaders decided that abandoning the planet was the best option for protecting what remained of their society and future generations from FF's influence. We can only speculate, but this is my headcanon.
I just assumed the people of the forgotten land advanced their technology so much from researching FF that they went through the singularity and so they had no need for the physical world anymore
That's not a bad theory, but its greatest flaw is that it'd seem they were doing just fine before leaving their planet, most buildings were intact and there's no sign of corruption/rebellion at all.
Since Magolor is kind of a capitalist, I would believe this group of ancients were as well... I mean, Magolor seems to know an awful lot about them, and I think he wouldn't mind following their steps-
This is hearsay, but I heard that in one Japanese Gotcha figure's flavor text, it mentions that the people of the New World left because it had gotten too small, which is to say likely because of overpopulation. (Why they didn't have anyone stay there is a mystery.)
@@jasonwalton9553 which figure says that?
This is a very baseless crack theory but it still feels like it could be true.
I like how this implies the final form of chaos elfilis is just a really specific chemical mixture of Dream, heart, darkness and soul to form a void-like entity.
Still not over Morpho Knight deleting the soul boss, even though Chaos Elfilis exists
I don't think it was deleted, just absorbed. At the end of the fight you can see the shape of F86 teleporting the fuck away. Perhaps after you kill morpho, Soul forgo took that power and then became chaos elfilis? I mean, I'm not the most well versed in kirb lore but it makes sense to me, at least.
I know that Soul Forgo did escape Morpho Knight and eventually became Chaos Elfilis, it was just a joke about how Soul Forgo was about to be a boss and then the butterfly appeared
Just like Galacta Knight in the last game
@@yourlocalcashregister1123 ahh yea, fair enough.
Could dream matter also tie into the abilities of the Star Rod and the Fountain of Dreams? Could Nightmare be related to this dream matter as well? The four knights who sealed Void Termina originally, could each one of them have represented the 4 types of matter mentioned? This raises so many questions, and I hope it sparks discussion among fans!
That actually makes me think of something
What if Nightmare was an ancient cappable of using dark matter AND dream matter at the same time?
That would make so much sense...
@@marceloquintamar2613 That would make sense. Star Allies implies that Dark Matter is made from negative emotions, so maybe his plan was to use the fountain of dreams in order to give the the residents of dreamland nightmares so he could harness dark energy from their bad dreams.
@@marceloquintamar2613 Remember Dark Mind from Amazing Mirror and how he seems to be the mirror version of both Nightmare and Zero? I think there’s definitely a connection between Nightmare and dark matter.
@Frahd Chikun It’s hinted that Galacta Knight is one of the four heroes with how he can summon heart spears in Super Kirby Clash. Which matter would he represent? It could possibly be dark matter, since he only uses his heart spear attack when in his dark form.
@@ghengiroo4143 I mean heart spears also have "heart" in the name...
You know what? After watching this and the Completionist video I'm fully convinced to try this Kirby game, it looks awsome!
You won’t regret it my dude!
Play Planet Robobot and Super Star Ultra while you’re at it
You haven't played it yet? This video spoils the biggest reveals in the game.
He almost cracks up when saying “Kirby swallows a semi-truck”
Ah Kirby, my favorite cosmic horror franchise.
So if Fecto Forgo is to Elfilin as Dark Matter is to Kirby then this implies other versions of Dream matter like elfilin. Even more so, Fecto Forgo being an invasive species implies that Elfilin came from a dimension with more Dream matter than what we've seen. Additionally Elfilin being a small part of Fecto Forgo that becomes good means that Elfilin isn't a Dream matter version of Kirby, but instead he's a dream matter version of....gooey. Elfilin is Gooey.
Theory: the Ancients developed dimensional technology after studying Fecto Forgo, and left to Dreamland sometime after the incident that caused Fecto Forgo to split Elfilin off as a separate entity. Fecto Forgo comes from another dimension, and if assumed to be Dream-aligned, may well have originated in Dreamland before invading the Forgotten Land; the Ancients may have discovered Dreamland by tracing Fecto Forgo's origin using the tech they reverse engineered from FF's rift abilities, and deeming it safe/empty, decided to make it their new home.
...Of course 'FF originated in Dreamland' is reliant on such a ridiculous amount of tangential, potentially pure coincidental 'evidence' (if it can even be called that), that i can't even call this my new headcannon, just speculation i made up on-the-spot in response to your post, but, y'know. As far as speculation goes, it actually builds off of what was discussed in this video surprisingly well...
No, elfilin is to elfilis as gooey is to dark matter.
A small good part that separates from the main evil
Kirby would be more like dark matter's uncle if the family tree goes:
Void
↙ ↘
kirby Zero
⬇
Dark matter
Funny how the *Warp* Star and the Star Rifts have similar travel capabilities…
Also, the parts where time skips around a bit seems like time runs at different rates relative to each dimension.
That is the case. Consider when the Dees made a town unusually quickly, or when Elfilin is found and returned to Dreamland in a matter of seconds by Clawroline.
I think it gets even weirder, the rift from the beginning of the game is the exact same one that is created at the end of the main story (from the perspective of popstar it seems to have multiple sub rifts or something)
Kirby's entire adventure took place in a matter of minutes or even seconds on popstar
This video is wonderfully informative, even with some of the speculations and theories. It is very well made.
It is very well put-together and informative, but there are some minor inaccuracies, like his placement of the "unexplained rift" in the Ultimate Cup Z - it's not before Chaos Elfilis, but the actually source/setting of the entire cup.
Was I the only one that was really surprised when I saw kirby fleeing from the vortex in the first cutscene? Usually, kirby never hesitates when it comes to protecting Popstar and his friends...
Well flying into a black hole doesn't sound like the brightest idea and besides he didn't have a semi yet, he hadn't reached his fully power lmao
Like if it was a fortress it makes sense but since it's sucking things up this gives it a black hole nature and Kirby has some serious experience with "if it sucks you up it's bad" (I:e Marx, Magolor, Sectonia(?) Star Dream
I don’t think that the Ancients are the ones who left the planet for Popstar. I think the people left were the people who studied science and banished the Ancients. Hence the the more civilized world and science-like Lad Discovera.
There're two groups of ancients: The magic wielders (which hyness belongs to), and the technological ancients who banished them.
It's possible that this group was the scientific ancients, who based the Novas and Lor Starcutter (among other devices) off of it. Fecto Forgo's capsule chamber resembles the room the Heart of Nova is in, complete with a heart-shaped entity in a tube in the center.
10:11
I wish this cutscene showed time passing before elfilin created a "stable connection"
What do you mean?
@@sherbertshortkake6649 elfilin creates a portal between the NEWWORLD and popstar, it is described as a stable connection
@@31-2-5 No, sorry, I understood that part.
I was wondering what specifically you meant by "I wish it showed time passing".
@@sherbertshortkake6649 I think what he is getting at is to us it was nearly immediate with Elfilin popping back up after the dramatic farewell, And afterwards when you talk to Elfilin he says that Clawroline found him and nursed him back to health, so this implies that there was some passage of time between the farewell and the reunion.
....Probably some time dilation going on.
@@Timmothy_plays Oh that. Right. That's because time passes quicker on Popstar than in the Forgotten Land
I personally think that the ancients and whoever lived in the forgotten land were not the same, considering hyness and magolor look nothing like humans and I believe it was stated that halcandra used to be the home of the ancients not the forgotten land
Could have been their home after moving on from the FL. Plus, there's no proof so far that the Ancients were even humans.
There's no proof that humans inhabited the Forgotten Land either, their civilization just looks like ours because they probably figured that was most effective as we did... however, we DO get to hear something interesting about them...
Lightron was a huge corporation involved in all sorts of investigations and advancements, in short, they were the ones leading the road for their civilization to reach absolute success, maximum profit, and a future of thriving... _until they split up._
Look at me, dead in the eye, and tell me... do you really think *THAT* is a coincidence?
@@The94Venom but it doesn't seem like there were any magic users in the forgotten land and the architecture in it looks nothing like any of the ancients artifacts (lor, star rod, clockwork stars, possibly master crown etc) or architecture (divine terminus, jambastion). Even egg engines doesn't look very similar to the factory in forgotten land and the factory and architecture on shiver star certainly don't.
I'd personally theorize the ancients in the forgotten land were like haltmann and susie since at the very least rhythm route is similar to the cities we see in forgotten land just more cartoonish
@@The94Venom but the animals and wildlife are the exact same as those on earth, and plus wouldn’t the world of an alien civilization look a little more…alien?
@@Kirb-dv5hy yeah I think that makes a lot more sense than humans, after all Haltmann’s mechanization of Popstar created things like cars and streets
personally i believe that the forgotten land is the... lets just say 'real world'. As you mentioned in the video specimen ID-F86 came to this land through the star portals and laid waste to the land. They were eventually captured and experimented on. This lead to the creation of the ancients machines which allowed them to travel through these star portals implied by the "planetary warp technology we use today". However ID-F86 has a secondary ability, the creation of dreams, i dont know if it was mentioned in the video but the fact that 'forgo dreams' is a place that has manifested due to the destruction of one of these star portal users and created a realm where their soul resides. It may be possible that dreamland and the whole world of kirby is one such place where the starcutter was destroyed and those that were boarded on the starcutter became lost souls as did specimen ID-F86. This led to the creation of many creatures that inhabit the land such as void, drawcia, magolor, marx, sectonia and even possibly the star dream as it has a soul of its own.
Something I don't see anyone talk about is that the automated voice mentions how "30 years ago" a warp experiment accident or failure happened at the facility. You know what else happened 30 years ago?
Kirby's first game.
What if... and I know this idea isn't true, but just what if... the accident is what caused Kirby to wind up in Dreamland?
*oh shiet, i almost forgot about that*
Elaborate
@@TheRealSuperKirby I was mistaken, the "30 years" thing was actually "30 years AFTER" IDF-86 showed up and started causing problems. That's when the incident happened. My mistake, I'm sorry.
wait so youre telling me that a gold cage needs only 3 bird to carry BUT DEDEDE NEEDS 10?!
He’s a chunky boy
He thicc
what I have managed to gather is that there is a wild and chaotic force in Kirby's universe, that when concentrated with either good or bad emotions becomes a good or evil entity. Kirby is the good, Void is the evil.
what this Forgo being seems to be is this negative force combined with another, a void combined with the magic of dreams perhaps, this would make Elfilin a version of good energy combined with the dream magic, the Kirby counterpart to Forgo.
So I'm absolutely down with kirby being a step in the right direction for void and elfilin being the same for our new friend, gooey possibly being that equivalent for dark matter as well so all of that being said..what does that make meta knight? We know what he is, same species as Kirby...but I feel like meta knight has to shed some light somewhere in this ya know?
When i first played Forgotten land and through Chaos Elfilis true final boss
It legit gave me flashbacks of Heart of Nova
Specifically Star dream in Robobot
Especially with the Cutter attack both Star dream's Heart of Nova and Chaos Elfilis Use
Alongside with it being the fact you literally fight their soul
Almost all the soul bosses share the same attacks all the way back to Drawcia Soul. If anything it seems to be powers you automatically gain by using Soul matter.
Not an Elden Ring content I expected, but I'll take it.
Considering DSP rage quit Kirby calling it “literally dark souls” I think this is actually secretly an Elden ring video
Elfilis really hates the voices that haunted him.
I know its a little unrelated but Kirby music is just soo good! I somehow forget just how great it is, but remember clear as day when its played in the background of videos like this. XD
I love scrolling through an Elden Ring lore channel to find a singular Kirby video
I just realized something, if GalactaKnight is a reincarnation of Astral Birth Void/The Elements, then The Butterfly/MorphoKnight has absorbed two of these reincarnations and might be absorbing them specifically to do... something, maybe involving an apocalypse of some kind. The theory could use some workshoping, but I feel like I'm on to something.
The dominant civilization-forming species in the Forgotten Land “disappeared into a land of dreams” and left the miscellaneous animals of the Beast Pack behind. I think when it says the Wastes Where Life Began it’s referring to the fact the Originull Wasteland is a dried up ocean, so if the forgotten land is akin to Earth, then life began and evolved from the ocean, which by extension refers to where the Beast Pack Originated if the beast pack just refers to all the animals left behind by the humans who ascended or whatever. Also “Fecto” means “Complete”, or “completely” in Latin, although Forgo appears to be a made up word, so perhaps the name Fecto Forgo roughly translates to Completely Forgotten? Also if Fecto Forgo was released after Morpho absorbed it, then was defeated, then I guess that implies Galacta Knight might also be okay after being disintegrated by that damn butterfly in Star Allies? Or maybe Galacta’s soul is still chilling out in the butterfly. Maybe he likes his new role?
I have been looking everywhere for a video that mentions the four matters of kirbyverse and finally you mentioned about it! Thank you!
That's funny, I always thought "Fecto" had something to do with being defective or imperfect and being perfect at the same time depending on which form of Elfilis you fight.
Fecto Elfilis really had the BALLS to call itself the ultimate lifeform when Kirby's right next to it lmao. A pink ball capable of absorbing and copying any power, and still retain its stable original form after discarding abilities.
Besides, can Fecto Elfilis drive an 18-wheeler? No, no it can't. Kirby wins.
Hah. I love checking the channel out and seeing this Kirby video squeezed in between elden ring lore vids. What a dichotomy.
Great video and at 16:34 I gotta also point out that clutch win at the very end. I would've melted into sludge if I died there
I just finished the main story and i wanna say....
THIS GAME IS SO AMAZING!!!
I love to call Elfilis “Shadow The Hedgehog” because of his subtitle. It’s perfect, because I get to make a dumb joke about the boss AND have a spoiler-free codename for my friends who haven’t played the game yet.
Interesting that in just two games, we seem to learn two of the most important facts about the Ancients - how they rose up, and perhaps how they fell.
You should have more subscribers, this analysis is AMAZING!
"The ultimate lifeform"
Shadow has entered the chat.
I can’t be the only one who thought while in the elevator ride up that voice was talking about Kirby somehow
Somehow every Kirby Endboss is really epic despite the introduction of said final boss being the minute you fight them
The only thing I'd add is that Kirby doesn't naturally have the ability to create or throw friend hearts either. In the opening cutscene of Star Allies, one of the first notable things that happen is that Kirby gets hit by a fragment of the Jamba heart's enclosing spears, awakening him from his sleep. This shard grants him the ability to create and throw friend hearts, and access friend abilities. Likewise, in the Forgotten Land, his new ability is that of mouthful mode to operate on inanimate objects.
Fecto is Latin for the world complete
Fecto Forgo is anything but complete.
Fecto Elfilis, on the other hand...
I like your analogies on the Kirby verse. I think with some more fleshing out of the lore there could be a really cool universe! The physical world versus dream world. Also this Forgo world got me intrigued. I noticed the theme song of the Forgo Isle is named, " faded dream of a psycho meddler ". Just really cool
All I’m saying is that Elfilis didn’t take/copy moves from void, but it would make sense if it was the other way around. Meaning that even in the future, villains will still be traced back to void
A multiversal threat attacks Kirby.
"Ah, yes, a semi-truck, that should be enough to crush it."
If there’s anything I know, it’s that gooey is far from the personification of mind, that guy barley has one.
Leaving the forgotten land and going into a land of dreams doesn’t necessarily mean they went to dream land or planet Popstar at all, but simply travelled to Kirby’s universe to find a new home, my theory is the Shiver Star was the new planet they colonized which was once earth, however something bad happened there leading the planet going into a snow apocalypse and forcing the ancients underground.
I just want point out the similarities between Shiver Star’s finale boss level and the one where we fight Fecto Elfilis in forgotten land, the buildings in the background of both games are black with red lights probably suggesting they where built by the same civilization. I believe Adeline from crystal shards is the last of the ancients.
Chaos, Heart, Dreams, Darkness
So many controversial topics for Kirby
Meanwhile I’m just wondering when Kirby will finally learn how to speak properly.
According to some of the older manuals (and a couple of the spinoffs), he can. According to this game, his handwriting kinda sucks, though.
@@magma1675 Last time I checked all he says is “poyo”
@@magma1675 when did he speak complete sentences?
@@magma1675 really? I feel like implied speaking isn’t the same thing as speaking aloud
@@magma1675 I know what you mean, but the fact that we’ve only ever gotten implied speaking and short instances of barely any dialogue doesn’t really feel like Kirby actually speaking imo. Even if it’s implied he can it doesn’t feel like it
It's kinda weird that I found many comparable moments when I was looking at the map and thought this was many centuries after the events of Mother 3 and you can find some places in the first half of the land that resemble places in EARTHBOUND
Damn efelis got isekaid
ID-F86 is the ultimate being Kirby: "And I took that personally"
The more I know, the more I love this game!
Thank you for make this video, I enjoyed it!
What I wonder though is what the next super boss will be elfilis is dead I thought maybe a manifestation of there hate or an old foe returning this game has a lot of weird enemies a few of which have only appeared along with zero I’ve counted 5 enemies that are in this game that only appear beside zero
Most Kirby games bring in a new main antagonist - very rarely does one return, Zero and Dark Matter being the notable exceptions, with Dark Meta Knight being a background antagonist in Triple Deluxe.
@@syweb2 exactly my point my guess is zero but it could be anything really hell they could give Fecto elfilis a third non canon form
17:33
Even in a video not connected with him, Gooey still somehow manages to be funny by seemingly yoinking Dark Matter with his tongue
I don’t think they moved to dream land the ancients probably went somewhere we have never seen just because they say a land of dreams doesn’t mean dreamland doesn’t that seem to obvious for Kirby lore which is often vague to just straight up say hey these people went to dream land beside if they did then what Is the place land is now rules that’s where I think they went I mean look at it its the burning ruins of a super advanced civilization
I'm with you, Scott. There's no special text, no special color, or anything when Leongar says "land of dreams". While I do agree the obvious connection is Dreamland, it's almost definitely a red herring. We're talking about a group of people that were advanced enough to duplicate and utilize warp technology, and build massive structures. They had the technology to build actual, wish-granting supercomputers! Had they made it to Popstar, we'd absolutely be seeing more evidence. Instead we get...nothing.
No, I say. The 'land of dreams' is a place we either haven't seen yet, or Shiver Star. And if it's Shiver Star, then something went VERY wrong with their plan.
@@Red-gw3ju Additionally, we literally visit a world of dreams, in that Isolated Isles is literally a dream world that ID-F86 formed/retreated to, talking Leongar with them.
Adeline is in Dreamland so we literally have proof of it
@@DJ-0 Per the wiki
Kirby 64 instruction manual: Adeleine, an aspiring artist, comes to Pop Star to study art."
Japanese instruction manual: A girl who came to Pop Star to study painting.
From Star Allies: "...are back on Planet Popstar!"
It's probably important to note that Adeleine is listed as Human, per the wiki, in all of her appearances. Ergo, we should assume she ages as a normal human.
If she were actually an Ancient, the first and second entry I listed would make no sense. Granted we don't know how long ago the Ancients left, but she'd be pretty ancient herself at this point. You could argue maybe they had tech to lengthen their lifespans, but we haven't seen anything like that in the games outside of the entire race wishing for eternal youth from a Clockwork Star. I mean, it's possible, but all speculation at this point.
The third entry basically confirms that Adeleine travels between worlds/dimensions regularly. Likely using her own abilities. Thinking about it, she basically has the Clockwork Star's wishing powers, but condensed and weakened to be used in a paint form for personal use.
I would believe that Adeliene is an Ancient. But I find it much more likely she's just a visitor on Pop Star. She may actually know where the Ancients currently are, but we've never had a reason for her to tell us yet.
@@Red-gw3ju I read on the wiki that magalore says that halcandra is where the ancients used to live
Something that I think is really important and that the game doesn't explicitly throw in your face is the timeline involving the probably-human population of the New World. Not only do I think that these people are connected to the Ancients, I think they drastically *pre-date* the Ancients. Their tech level lines up with this theory - they're obviously advanced enough to create things like Elfilis' containment unit and derive warp technology from them, but still nowhere near the level of what the Ancients created. So how?
The hints are there from the very start of the game. There is a GIGANTIC time dilation between Kirby's dimension and the dimension of the New World. In the few seconds between the Waddle Dees/Meta Knight/Dedede/everyone else getting sucked into the rift and Kirby getting sucked in, they all had enough time to:
- build an entire TOWN
- have Meta Knight fend off Gorimondo THIRTY TIMES and then still have time to explore to the fourth area and come back
- have the town destroyed
- have the Waddle Dees kidnapped and Dedede brainwashed
- have the Waddle Dees taken all the way to Lab Discovera to power things there
That's the work of several weeks at minimum. If there's that much time discrepancy between the New World's dimension and Kirby's dimension, imagine how long ago it must have been that the New World's previous inhabitants came here? Long enough to refine their technology and start building truly incredible things like the Master Crown, NOVAs, et cetera...
Added fun fact that's relevant here: the Lor Starcutter is confirmed capable of time travel.
Can't forget to mention how the New World has LOADS of vegetation and everything is extremely run down. Also an ENTIRE OCEAN DRIED UP. That must've taken DECADES for all of that to happen. If the time dilation is that large, then the people of the New World must have had enough time to evolve like they did.
Hey I didn't know kirby and Sega had a crossover 😳
Btw I know what he's talking about it's just a joke
At 17:40, it looks like Gooey is holding one of Dark Matter’s flying thingys, and saying to you to eat it, I don’t, just thought it looked like that🤣
Biolizard was better
fr
now what other franchise have we seen an ultimate life-form
I forget where I saw this, but I saw somewhere that Fecto means “Completed” in Roman or something. While Forgo is a shortened form of Forgotten.
This would mean Fecto Forgo means “Completely Forgotten” and Fecto Elfilis is “Completed Elfilis”
But again, I forget where I saw this. I think the Kirby wiki iirc using context clues for both Fecto Forgo and Fecto Elfilis’s pages.
I noticed you snickered slightly when you said 'kirby inhales a semi-truck'
the first one was really cool but it didn’t make sense because the other two had to go in for an appointment
Some dude: _Im the Ultimate lifeform!_
Kirby: ( 0.0) 🎂