Didn’t know mlb had stopped uploading full game replays, that’s quite aggravating, it was one of the things I most admired about the league’s online presence in comparison to other sports
@@FoolishBaseball Dudes a meatball - hes lucky the league is increasing revenues because if they weren't, he'd be replaced with someone much better who would actually make the game more popular and profitable.
@@slamcrowell6014understandable but they didn’t win the World Series. If Cora took the tactics to Boston that mean LA was robbed twice. But if any other teamed cheated they should be exposed and punished too
@@slamcrowell6014 No team in history has cheated like the 2017 Astros. The increase in OPS by the Houston Astros from 2016 to 2017: 1B Gurriel .677 -> .817; 2B Altuve .928 -> .957; SS Correa .811 -> .941; 3B Bregman .791 -> .827; LF Gonzalez .694 -> .907; CF Springer .815 -> .889; RF Reddick .749 -> .847; C McCann .748 -> .759. Utility Marisnick .588 - .815 That's an entire lineup with improved OPS from 2016 to 2017. Five of the nine lineup players set CAREER highs that they never topped. It's insane. Nothing like that has ever happened in MLB history. By contrast, of the regular players on the 2018 Red Sox team, only three improved their OPS over the prior year - Bogaerts, Benintendi and Betts - and only Betts had the best year of his career. Six of the nine regular players actually decreased. The 2001 Seattle Mariners, with the best record in MLB history, also only had ONE player (Bret Boone) who had a career OPS season. The worst was in the World Series. Just one example, Kershaw threw 51 off speed pitches and the Astros swung and missed at ZERO of them. Someone ran a computer sim, and the odds of that happening were 128,061 to 1. So it would take 4266 years and it MIGHT happen again. Just absurd - why even play the game.
MLB has caused more problems than any team. They have messed with the balls way too much and try to hide too many scandals instead of being honest and transparent.
the league frustratingly is very loosey goosey with the balls, often seeing many different versions used inside the same season, it would be really nice if they kept a yearly standard
The owner's closing 180 is reminiscent of Rick James' instantaneous 180 in the Charlie Murphy interview from Chappelle's show regarding grinding his feet on Eddie Murphy's couch. Solid ending, senor Foolish.
He always said I just did things just to DO them. C'mon, I've got a little more sense than that! Yeah, I remember grinding my feet up on Eddie's couch.
Not much. Maybe a 1 or 2 year delay over what would have happened had Fiers not ratted his system out. But ultimately, Beltran will get in and no one will remember the extra 1 or 2 year delay. Same with Altuve when it's his turn. Although Beltran was guilty and Altuve was not, the writers will still take their pound of flesh because Altuve never threw his cheating teammates under the bus by separating himself from the scandal.
Man, I am an Astros *and* Dodgers fan (Dodgers first, Astros I picked up in the 90s due to the Killer Bs). That series was the best thing to ever happen in my life, until the news dropped. That was a hugely depressing thing to learn about.
There was an interview with Kurt Suzuki, the catcher for the Nats during their World Series championship run. A reporter asked him if the Astros were cheating, and he was like, yeah, of course.
Foolish baseball is getting so good at this whole video thing, I had to steal his signs. That's right Bailey, good luck watching the 2002 Mel Gibson mystery/thriller without a hulu subscription.
To me it feels quite obvious that the players received immunity because the story is far bigger than what the public is aware of and the Astros players would have no reason not to reveal all if they were punished while everyone else got away with it. To each their own though!
Bro its almost obvious. Verlander and Altuve, who will most likely be HOF, were NOT gonna get banned or suspended over that shit lol. They def were gonna snitch on everyone.
@@theflipper404 You are right that Verlander and Altuve are HOFers. But Verlander and Altuve are the opposite of snitches. Not sure why you think that. Altuve has worn the scarlet letter for a system he didn't even use.
Regardless of how you feel about the sign stealing and the Astros in general, the thing that stands out most to me is how frustrating it is. Time has shown the Astros didn’t need to cheat to win, yet they did anyway. Now their 2017 ring, which was a feel good story for the city of Houston, will forever be debated due to both the Astros themselves and MLB’s actions in response.
@@pretzels713 I doubt it. This is going to be burned into memory. People still think the Patriots' Spygate scandal (the only problem was *where* their film crew was stationed for a game against the Jets, not what they filmed) was about them filming practices and shit.
No matter how much time passes, I will never respect their 2017 title. Doesn’t matter to me what they do or have done since. Once a cheater always a cheater
I've been wondering for years what the truth of the sign stealing in the playoffs is. I know it's a louder environment, but I just can't accept that NO trash can bangs would be heard on the broadcast. If it really was a baserunner scheme, I think a lot of people would view the 2017 WS differently.
@@marimbaguy715 October crowds are LOUD. Especially that first year where the Astros home crowd was at its loudest. No way a trash can bang could've been heard
@@shoukatsukai But the video shows that the bangs stopped in September. Alex Cora had the equipment removed and put away. Occam's razor says that stayed that way since the bangs never returned and only the industry standard runner on 2nd base system was used from September 21, 2017 to early 2018 when even that was abandoned.
@@corylieder1452 Which is why OP suggesting that "no way they stopped using trash cans in the playoffs" is a ridiculous claim bc Bailey explained it in the video like you said
What was the point of stealing the signs in the first place if not to win? And they certainly didn’t need to do that to make the playoffs, but they did anyway. So they cheated up to a point and then just gave up and left everything to chance in the playoffs?
@@14habibs They 100% cheated in the playoffs, but the actual cheating part was using the camera to steal signs. The confusion/uncertainty comes from what they did with that information, because while we have clear and obvious evidence they used trash can bangs to relay signs for a period during the regular season, we know they basically stopped using that system after the White Sox game where they basically got caught and have no hard proof of it being used in the playoffs. But they wouldn't have been stealing the signs if they had no way to relay them to batter so... what did they do? Was it just used to help baserunners steal signs? Or was there some other system?
My god. As a Dodgers fan, I’ll never be able to forgive them for ‘17. I didn’t know Altuve didn’t want to be part of the scheme, that at least partially makes me respect a bit more a player that I’ve always seen as a legend of the game
Although not as bad as the other players, Altuve still used the signs to his benefits by employing wires underneath his uniform during those 17 to 19 seasons, at least to some extent, after they were told to stop banging on trash cans. Just look at the walk off homerun off of Chapman in 19' (2 and 1 slider) and how Altuve adamantly told teammates his not to take his uniform off as he arrived at home plate.
I love Bailey. Hes more than just a TH-camr to me. He's my secret lover. His videos are a joy to my life, and I beg and crawl to him to upload more. My life revolves around this channel. I am nothing without it
I remember watching the 2019 World Series and thinking something was off when the Nats catchers used multiple signs with the bases empty the whole series
Finally a video that tells mostly the story about what really happened, correctly. Interestingly leaving out the Yankees letter from the commissioner regarding their cheating
@@FoolishBaseball yes you did. I feel like the Yankees cheating and then going so far to hide the letter that proved it should have been touched on some more.
Thank you for putting this together. Long after the last person involved with the scandal retires or leaves the team, it's the Astros fans that have to endure the "punishment" from the other fan bases for years to come. As you noted, other teams have cheated to some degree, but the only reasons this keeps getting brought up is because the Astros won it all and beat the Yankees and Dodgers (the 2 biggest markets in MLB). As an Astros fan, I have mixed feelings about the whole situation. I'm pissed because I know we didn't need to cheat. I'm defiant because it's been said, and sometimes proven, that other teams cheated too. I'm happy because the win really did lift the city of Houston after Harvey destroyed so much. And despite what other fan bases and haters might say, 2022 redeemed the Astros for us fans...and if you can't accept that, then kiss our orange and blue asses.
No, I think that it keeps getting brought up because no team in history has cheated like the 2017 Astros. The increase in OPS by the Houston Astros from 2016 to 2017: 1B Gurriel .677 -> .817; 2B Altuve .928 -> .957; SS Correa .811 -> .941; 3B Bregman .791 -> .827; LF Gonzalez .694 -> .907; CF Springer .815 -> .889; RF Reddick .749 -> .847; C McCann .748 -> .759. Utility Marisnick .588 - .815 That's an entire lineup with improved OPS from 2016 to 2017. Five of the nine players set career highs that they never topped. It's insane. Nothing like that has ever happened in MLB history. Cheating at such a high level that it isn't even baseball any more. It's some other game. By contrast, of the regular players on the 2018 Red Sox team, only three improved their OPS over the prior year - Bogaerts, Benintendi and Betts - and only Betts had the best year of his career. Six of the nine regular players actually decreased. The worst was in the World Series. Just one example, Kershaw threw 51 off speed pitches and the Astros swung and missed at ZERO of them. Someone ran a computer sim, and the odds of that happening were 128,061 to 1. So it would take 4266 years and it MIGHT happen again. Just absurd - why even play the game.
Astros ruined their own legacy buddy, you can thank them for the "punishment." Sorry your team lacks integrity at such a high level, I can't imagine it's fun.
One of my theories is that the backlash to the Astros directly impacted how Manfred handled the sticky stuff cheating epidemic. He went out of his way to let players do it until they were ready to stop it and then didn't do anything comparable for organization investigation as they did with Houston on the sign stealing.
There is one important piece that was left out (likely because it wasn't covered in any of your sources)... Astros fans love to talk about how their sustained success should absolve them from any wrong-doing in 2017. The problem with that is that the amount of money that came in as a result of their cheating in 2017 has aided them in their success. It's one of the biggest reasons why the "punishment" was such a joke. The team increased in value by more than $500M after their "championship." if they hadn't had such a massive increase in money coming in, would they have been able to afford to re-sign or extend guys like Altuve (twice), Verlander (twice), Bregman, and Alverez? They are all key players that contributed to their continued success. And, while they probably would have been able to sign a few of them, do you really think that they would have been able to sign or extend ALL of those guys if not for the massive influx of cash coming in after 2017?
@CY-1627 the reason for the slap on the wrist punishment is the fact that everyone was using similar methods to get an edge on the pitching. If they punished the astros they would have to punish a lot of other teams.
@@drbryant23 we had the hottest team in the MLB that year it doesnt matter. Even if they didnt cheat we still would have won the WS. We had the best lineup in baseball that year.
While it is true that you can no longer view the entire games on youtube from 2019 onward, every single pitch from 2016 - 2024 is available on mlb film room, you can go to each game and theres a 'pitch by pitch' section. Its more inconvenient, but its still possible to see every pitch if a scandal like this happened again.
@@FoolishBaseball Not only that, Houston had basically the same statistical hitting stats from 2014 to 2022; so, they were always capable of doing that with or without the cheating.
23:19 Flashback of Rick James episode on Chappelle Show... lololol "Ive got more sense than to rub my feet into someone's couch... Yea, I remember rubbing my feet into Eddie's couch....." .. It was so ridiculous the editors for Chappelle Show did an in-show rewind just to confirm that yes, Rick said one thing, then the total opposite RIGHT after.. he should've gone into politics
I am a little confused about "most bangs", like at 15:20. Wasn't there meaning in no bang as well? Might the number of bangs then instead depend on how many of certain types of pitches were thrown?
Kinda makes me feel bad for being one of those folks who dragged Altuve's name through the mud. It seems that he was not exactly one of the people taking advantage of the scandal actively, but he seemed to still take the lickings with grace. What a guy...
Nope, he knew what was taking place. Didn't report it, didn't do anything. Any win he celebrated is a disgrace. If you win with others cheating and you do nothing about it, you cheated.
@kawkasaurous If I'm working on a team that I've gotten close to for years at a plant, roofing, or whatever job that requires a fall-arrest system, and I see a homie not using his proper PPE, I might bring it up to the guy, but I'm not going to the foreman, plant manager, or leadership. Terrible analogy, but you get the point. He still has to work with his team for however long he's there. If you're getting paid millions, why would you risk your reputation to snitch? That could also draw a negative reputation for any potential team who might sign for him, to be known as a snitch. I'm merely looking at it from his perspective is all. I could be wrong. I think most would have done the same in his position. If your team is cheating, chances are you are just going to hope they're good enough at it not to get caught and not have to worry about potential consequences.
As an Astros fan, I appreciate the effort to clear Altuve's name. He's taken the brunt of the hate from the fans, even though he did the right thing, and despite the peer pressure of his teammates in 2017.
From what I have seen, he knew about the cheating and asked them to stop when he was at bat, if this is the case, he still knew about the cheating and did nothing to stop or report it, therefor still as guilty as the others in the eyes of many.
"I knew about the cheating, I didn't say anything about the cheating, but I didn't approve of the cheating so I should be absolved." Nah, his legacy is and always will be tainted. Just like everyone else on that 2017 roster.
Journalism. The thing I most appreciated about this is that I did not know Altuve didn’t participate. Thanks for the education so I can enjoy a great ball player more fully
Excellent video, I was really paying tons of attention to baseball during these years, but have kinda shifted towards other sports in the last few. It always felt like a losing battle trying to argue that Altuve was the one clean player, and it still hurts me how misinformation and people prioritizing narratives instead of public data led to him being a target and the ridiculous level of public bullying that ensued, especially when so many other actual participants did not receive that treatment from fans. Even though I didn’t pay much attention for a few years, this video was a really nice throwback for me. I always know I can get the best content imaginable from you.
It doesn't really matter that Altuve didn't participate. The entire team was complicit including bullpen pitchers who never sniffed an AB in their whole careers. Remember the whistleblower was Mike Fiers.
@Babomomebeo if that's the case than every teammate of a steroid user shouldn't be hof eligible. What about the other dozen teams that were using similar tactics, every player on those teams should be getting the same hate. What about the pitchers using spider tack? Every teammate of theirs should get the same suspensions as well. Your logic doesn't hold water once it's used on a grand scale.
@@Babomomebeothere’s a major difference between being complicit (it’s also not as easy to snitch on your teammates as you make it seem) vs being the primary target of all verbal abuse from fans because everyone blames you for the cheating. It’s also definitely the responsibility of the manager and coaches to put a stop to it or alert the league, not the players.
For those wondering why, the CBA states a "big market team" can't have top ten picks in consecutive seasons. And despite the fact that Jerry Reinsdorf acts like a small market owner, he falls in a big market.
Always dislike the "they were an extremely good offense regardless" discussion. Same with Barry Bonds. Them being great without the outside help makes it WORSE that they resorted to these measures and were rewarded for it.
@@miguelangelsucrelares5009 Okie doke, let's just forget the time he perjured himself before congress when speaking to his alleged cheating. Definitely doesn't influence how much I trust him. Or also that he went from having a regular person head to having a thumb in its place. Bonds most likely did cheat, sorry to inform. Just like Sosa cheated even though he continues (continued?) to deny it.
The simple fact they cheated calls into question anything they've ever accomplished as players. If they're willing to cheat in the biggest and most highly scrutinized baseball league in the world WHY would anyone think they'd be unwilling to cheat prior to the MLB? It's not even like a one time thing, it was longer than a season so it wasn't even some momentary lapse of judgement. It was highly orchestrated and deliberate and took every Astros player to hide. They are ALL cheaters (the '17/'18 rosters but probably all of em since too tbh.)
Bonds got better with cheating. The astros did NOT. Sure Marwin and maybe a couple other fringe players had better seasons. But the Astros were better offensively on the road than at home. Every category on offense including HRs, AVG, Slugging, hits, were better on the road. Bonds when from a 30-40hr guy to hitting 70+. Simply statistical evidence to back that you are wrong.
It's still hard to fathom how light the punishments were for this. Major League Baseball came down way harder on steroid users than an entire organization doing something much worse.
@@FoolishBaseball 'for the greater good of the sport...' aka: We make too much money to have another derailment like we did in 94... and we cant use juice to bring the fans and crowds back either.. best not open this can of worms and hope for the best!
I read an excerpt from a Baseball Bloopers book about a team that buried an electronic buzzer under the batter's box, which was connected by a wire that ran all the way to the center field wall where a team employee was stealing signs using binoculars. And this supposedly happened all the way back in the year 1900.
I sincerely hope that 2017 title gets stripped from the Astros idc if it takes 50+ years it'll always leave a bad taste in my mouth as a baseball fan how light of a punishment was carried out.
One of the more fascinating things for baseball nerds is that all of the documentation gives us some insight into the debate over whether MLB pitchers can be so good that you can't get a hit off them even when you know what's coming. Yu Darvish pitched a 1hit-1 run gem over 7 innings against the Astros at Minute Maid on June 12, 2017, well into prime trashcan banging. Darvish had a rough start at home against the Astros 10 days prior to that June 12 game, so it wasn't like Yu's success was just the result of an advantageous matchup. Darvish was pitching against one of the best offenses in baseball at a time of year when they were at their hottest *and* the hitters knew what was coming yet Yu still only gave up 1 run on a walk, a sac hit, and a single to left in the 5th inning. MLB pitching is *insaaaane*.
It was the same concept as the steroid era. To get the most complete information available offering freedom from punishment usually helps. You have to keep in mind it was a league wide thing they were trying to solve and the Astros are just the face because they ended up winning. I too think Manfred is an idiot but there is no real way to punish a team for cheating when literally everyone was doing it. I will forever have the opinion that the people that are mad nothing happened just aren’t informed enough about the behind the scenes of the sport, there is a reason very few players or coaches spoke out against the lack of punishment. The only possible outcome was to find out how it’s happening, make any further breach over punishable, and then move on. Only way to do that is ask players, only way they answer is without fear of repercussion. In an ideal world they were the only team cheating so punishing them is easy but it’s not always that easy.
As a tigers fan, i always thought he did it because he knew (and if it wasn't for covid) the public would punish the players. He was more concerned about getting everything in the open and punish the team for it. Had he not done that, there's no way all the Info would come out
@@joeywirt7953 that's entirely beside the point. he didn't need to offer immunity right away. he could've done his investigation first without it, see what he could come up with; then if necessary offer immunity to whoever's testimony they needed. if this had been done by a trained prosecutor, the lower level players would've been offered immunity so they could've at least taken down beltran and gonzalez.
It is a shame about Cora. As a Nats fan I was supposed to meet Nyjer Morgan prior to a game and he cancelled. Cora could tell I was a sad 10 YO. He (on the Mets) came and chatted with my family for a few minutes and got us a ball which I still have
It reiterates an incorrect assumption about the home-road dichotomy. They are starting from an early assumption - that the Astros must not have cheated on the road, because there were no trash can bangs detected in road games. The MLB Report, which everyone expected would reveal that the Astros cheated only at home, did not address the issue. The only factual finding of relevance was that the Astros cheated during the regular season and "throughout the Postseason" in 2017. img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglrhmlrwwbkacty27l7.pdf In August of 2017, Kevin Goldstein, Astros Executive sent an email to their scouts to request ways in which they could steal signs from the crowd, rather than from a camera feed, which was an effort to refine their cheating away from Minute Maid (where they would not have needed such assistance because they were using the home camera). “One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout,” Goldstein wrote in the message. “What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can (or can’t) do and report back your findings.” If you saw Game 7 at Dodger Stadium, it was pretty clear that he was successful. Bregman stole THIRD for the only time in his life, and Gurriel, who averages the fewest pitches per plate appearance in the entire MLB over his career, has a THIRTEEN pitch at bat, casually sitting back on all off speed stuff and fouling it off. And, of course it was later confirmed by Evan Gattis that the Astros knew what Darvish was throwing on each pitch. Of course they cheated on the road, and you'd better believe that after cheating all year, against teams like the White Sox that lost nearly 100 games, there were not going to stop cheating in Game 7 of the World Series.
The MLB screwed over breaking ball pitchers with the slicker balls. They probably did that for more home runs during playoff games. Which begs the question, if regular balls were used in the post season, would the WS winner outcome also change? Seems like game fixing; to a degree.
Same thing but opposite happened in 2019. Juiced balls all year incentivized teams to sell out for home runs, then the ball was deadened in the playoffs and all of those teams were screwed over.
The worst part of this in retrospect is how its been levied against Altuve. Hes an easy no doubt HOF and one of the best playoff performers of this generation and this will unfortunately be one of the things hes most known for despite not benefiting from it at all
@@catman-du8927 You're right that he was in the wrong for doing nothing about the cheating. Worth pointing out though that given the amount of people who knew about the cheating at the Astros and either participated or didn't challenge it, I think that goes to show that sadly the vast majority of players wouldn't be any better. Altuve happened to be the HOF candidate caught up in the middle of it, but it could have been pretty much anyone.
I always thought that Manfred having the player’s immunity seemed like he knew other teams were cheating and knew he’d have to punish a lot more people if he started handing out suspensions to one team. I believe this because it was reported during the Red Sox vs Yankees scandal that the teams had told Manfred and he told both of them to stay quiet and not tell the media so they could handle it behind closed doors, but he didn’t hand out any punishments until the Yankees went to the media with it forcing his hand. He was trying to run a business instead of a sport.
@Muckman68 Yeah you're right, he just happened to have an extremely statistically anomalous season of road games where he was better than he ever was or will be, and it just so happened to be during that season
From the book Astroball, Beltran apparently picked up on a tip for Yu Darvish for game 3. IIRC he did a slight twist with his glove for an off speed pitch, and was steady on a fastball. Beltran was apparently obsessive about finding tells like these by watching film
There was no "tip". Beltran floated that rumor because there was no other way to explain the statistical anomalies in the games against Darvish during the World Series. At the time, Darvish had the best K/9 rate of any righthander in MLB history (!!), and his rate against the Astros was over 11.0 in a fairly large sample size. A few months earlier, in June at Minute Maid, he faced these same Astros, and gave up ONE hit in seven innings. But, with the cheating in place, he couldn't get the Astros to swing and miss at any off speed pitches. Darvish, in 200+ games started has only TWO games in his career where he failed to record a strikeout - the two WS games in 2017, when the Astros were cheating. In game 7 Bregman stole third base for the ONLY TIME in his entire career. Gurriel, who saw the fewest pitches per plate appearance in the entire MLB in 2017, somehow worked a THIRTEEN pitch at bat - I blieve it is the longest at bat of his career. Those stats are so crazy that the only explanation that Beltran could come up with was "he was tipping his pitches". Of course, we now know the truth - they were cheating.
"Don't hire blacks because you can never fire them!" WTF man? I am 45 years old and I would of hoped that some of the raciest crap would be out of the work place, but I guess it will never go away.
@@TamaleRingwald yes they do. Especially when the players from 2017 go to teams like yours. Dodgers fans don’t complain about Mookie Betts, Yankees fans don’t complain about Gerritt Cole, Twins fans don’t complain about Carlos Correa, Blue Jays fans don’t complain about George Springer etc.. Now fans of other fanbases who “hate” the Astros, are wanting their team to go sign Alex Bregman.
@@MattysIsHim never said they did. I’ve seen Yankees and Philly fans wanting him. Alec Bohm may be on the trade block. They could get picks for Bohm and sign Bregman. Washington is also shopping 3B
What does a liar do once hes dead he lies still, it doesn't matter if the scandal is delt with and over, it doesn't matter how supposedly honest the perpetrators supposedly were, as long as the thieves got away with the treasure then there hasnt been justice.
Didn’t know mlb had stopped uploading full game replays, that’s quite aggravating, it was one of the things I most admired about the league’s online presence in comparison to other sports
theres some autists out there trying to upload full game replays cut so it has no downtime between pitches.
they still do clip/highlight packages tho
@@skatedurrI mean, that's the bare minimum
Yeah I'm sure announce some kind of MLB + subscription model or something. Lol
@@Vitorio582 huh? Never knew that until now but that might be because I just started following the league this year.
Why is this video in landscape and not portrait? Where is the subway surfers?
Bro got brainrot, mmman😢😢😢😢
I'd respond, but I'm pretty sure you've already scrolled away by now.
@@ryanok1757 I’d be surprised if anyone who plays Subway surfers could properly use both landscape and portrait in a sentence
We need FoolishBrainrot for Zoomers and newer generation
@@FoolishBaseballyou forgot a word brother
Ok the pixelated Rob Manfred has to be trolling. He looks hilarious lol
He looks very handsome
His mother is very proud of him.
Dat tooth gap
That tooth gap is there so ownership knows where to place the money to keep him quiet.
@@FoolishBaseball he is my favorite pixelated portrait so far
Remember when Manfred called the world series trophy "a piece of metal"? lol
That was funny because it's called the COMMISSIONER'S TROPHY yet he was like "idk it doesn't really matter"
@@FoolishBaseball Dudes a meatball - hes lucky the league is increasing revenues because if they weren't, he'd be replaced with someone much better who would actually make the game more popular and profitable.
Rob Manfred is a piece of... something brown and stinky.
Watching Freddie hug the trophy like it's a puppy last night brought that memory right up to the front of my brain
Honestly this is what got me upset the most. Just... god, Manfred sucks.
"It didn't impact the game"
*bang bang*
"I didn't say it didn't impact the game"
2020-2023 prove it didn't really impact the game that much
Yeah it made the Astros worse somehow
We actually were worse at home in 2017
Well when every other team is cheating too how much of an advantage can it give you
@@bryson1482 trash
Enough talk about these "stolen signs" how about we talk about how you stole my heart Mr. Foolish Bailey🥺🥺
You're proposing a different sort of banging scheme.
@@FoolishBaseball You put some good wood on that reply.
I'm like Tim Lincecum, the way people call me "The Freak"@@FoolishBaseball
@@FoolishBaseballmore than one or two thumps at once. Unless it's been a few days and you're excited
@@tides8464big Tim Jim ballgame
When the world needed him most… HE RETURNED
that's right
“The best player at the time Mike Trout” breaks my heart man. I wanna see him be in the MVP convo again, just once more time.
Dude is this generation's Ken Griffey Jr. Amazing front half of career bogged down with injuries in the latter half. It's sad.
@@msscott22 and no ring to show for it. So sad
@@dhLord64 You and me have won as many postseason games as Mike Trout.
Same man.. I’m a dbacks fan but the league needs guys like trout… I hope he can regain some of what he was
Happy that Shohei can end his career without the “what if” question. Really hoping the same can be done with Trout, man.
The fact they were caught so blatantly and weren't required to vacate their title is utterly absurd
Cause mlb knew what other teams were doing and it wouldn’t be fair to take it.
Yankees cheated too. The Red Sox cheated in 2018 and won the ws. Of course some other teams have cheated. You want them to punish every team?
because it was an endemic problem.
@@slamcrowell6014understandable but they didn’t win the World Series. If Cora took the tactics to Boston that mean LA was robbed twice.
But if any other teamed cheated they should be exposed and punished too
@@slamcrowell6014 No team in history has cheated like the 2017 Astros. The increase in OPS by the Houston Astros from 2016 to 2017: 1B Gurriel .677 -> .817; 2B Altuve .928 -> .957; SS Correa .811 -> .941; 3B Bregman .791 -> .827; LF Gonzalez .694 -> .907; CF Springer .815 -> .889; RF Reddick .749 -> .847; C McCann .748 -> .759. Utility Marisnick .588 - .815 That's an entire lineup with improved OPS from 2016 to 2017.
Five of the nine lineup players set CAREER highs that they never topped. It's insane. Nothing like that has ever happened in MLB history.
By contrast, of the regular players on the 2018 Red Sox team, only three improved their OPS over the prior year - Bogaerts, Benintendi and Betts - and only Betts had the best year of his career. Six of the nine regular players actually decreased. The 2001 Seattle Mariners, with the best record in MLB history, also only had ONE player (Bret Boone) who had a career OPS season.
The worst was in the World Series. Just one example, Kershaw threw 51 off speed pitches and the Astros swung and missed at ZERO of them. Someone ran a computer sim, and the odds of that happening were 128,061 to 1. So it would take 4266 years and it MIGHT happen again. Just absurd - why even play the game.
Wait they changed the balls for the World Series? wtf. That’s would be like changing the brand of basketball for the NBA finals
MLB has caused more problems than any team. They have messed with the balls way too much and try to hide too many scandals instead of being honest and transparent.
the league frustratingly is very loosey goosey with the balls, often seeing many different versions used inside the same season, it would be really nice if they kept a yearly standard
Why do you think judge can hit 62 homers but is garbage in the post season?
@@SideStrafed What about Stanton?
I think the balls change on a game by game basis tbf
The biggest travesty is that the trash can didnt recieve a world series ring! That thing was like a battered wife that stays because of the kids.
😂😂😂😂
The biggest travesty is that the junkees kept their ws titles that they didn’t earn!!
I just finished rewatching the original Baseball Bits and wondered the exact same thing in the title.
Well there you go. Here's the sequel.
The owner's closing 180 is reminiscent of Rick James' instantaneous 180 in the Charlie Murphy interview from Chappelle's show regarding grinding his feet on Eddie Murphy's couch. Solid ending, senor Foolish.
The Astros were habitual line steppers
He always said I just did things just to DO them. C'mon, I've got a little more sense than that!
Yeah, I remember grinding my feet up on Eddie's couch.
One consequence you didn’t discuss is how the scandal has affected Carlos Beltran’s Hall of Fame chances with writers.
Not much. Maybe a 1 or 2 year delay over what would have happened had Fiers not ratted his system out. But ultimately, Beltran will get in and no one will remember the extra 1 or 2 year delay. Same with Altuve when it's his turn. Although Beltran was guilty and Altuve was not, the writers will still take their pound of flesh because Altuve never threw his cheating teammates under the bus by separating himself from the scandal.
@@corylieder1452 Beltran was a shoo-in if not for this. It's far from a guarantee that he makes it.
And Jose Altuve's eventual time on the ballot.
@@Weaponator18 the video just said he was innocent bruh
@@Weaponator18Beltran is the mastermind in it while Altuve was not, if he wasn't Beltran would've probably be in the HOF right now
Interesting timing for this video
I help Rob Manfred script the season to make my video drops more interesting
@foolishbaseball lmao this made my day better, love the videos Bailey
Altuve is lying on all accounts
@@blantant maybe he should do a DNA test since we all know he really is the Yankees daddy
@@blantant ?
That rob manfred art scared me more than any Halloween movie ever could
BOO
Scarier then Denzel LeBron Obama and puff daddy taking turns on Justin Bieber?
As an astros fan who has always despised that they cheated, I appreciate the impartial recap of that whole chapter
billionaires being terrible people, fork found in kitchen
One of the few good ones.
I respect that.
Man, I am an Astros *and* Dodgers fan (Dodgers first, Astros I picked up in the 90s due to the Killer Bs). That series was the best thing to ever happen in my life, until the news dropped. That was a hugely depressing thing to learn about.
Oh grow up, you got two World Series and this team wasn't the only one that used the electrical sign stealing to cheat.
@@M_11_m41n"grow up" is such a weird response to that comment
The best part of this video was my heart dropping when you said it was dropped FIVE YEARS AGO
As a Nationals fan, I vividly remember that Taubman controversy. It put an extra sense of fire under our butts as Nats fans
There was an interview with Kurt Suzuki, the catcher for the Nats during their World Series championship run. A reporter asked him if the Astros were cheating, and he was like, yeah, of course.
The pitcher could always just use the Greinke defense against sign stealing and just yell at the catcher what pitch is coming.
Or the Kahnle defense, just throw the same pitch over and over
I can confirm that every 2017 Astro player still gets booed at Angels games
Angels should get booed for wasting Trout's career
It’s because they own you
ok
Okay? Is that an angels accomplishment?😂
This not the flex you think it is lol
Foolish baseball is getting so good at this whole video thing, I had to steal his signs. That's right Bailey, good luck watching the 2002 Mel Gibson mystery/thriller without a hulu subscription.
oh boy i love watching my favorite channel baseball bits
*24 minutes later*
we need to abolish private ownership of sports franchises
Just Houston
I’ll never discount that this scandal introduced me to my favorite TH-camr! Thanks for 5 years Bailey.
To me it feels quite obvious that the players received immunity because the story is far bigger than what the public is aware of and the Astros players would have no reason not to reveal all if they were punished while everyone else got away with it. To each their own though!
actual common sense in this comment section? no way!
Bro its almost obvious.
Verlander and Altuve, who will most likely be HOF, were NOT gonna get banned or suspended over that shit lol.
They def were gonna snitch on everyone.
Then MLB should've stripped the title.
@@theroachden6195 I think you’ll find that has nothing to do with my comment! Thanks for sharing though!
@@theflipper404 You are right that Verlander and Altuve are HOFers. But Verlander and Altuve are the opposite of snitches. Not sure why you think that. Altuve has worn the scarlet letter for a system he didn't even use.
Regardless of how you feel about the sign stealing and the Astros in general, the thing that stands out most to me is how frustrating it is.
Time has shown the Astros didn’t need to cheat to win, yet they did anyway. Now their 2017 ring, which was a feel good story for the city of Houston, will forever be debated due to both the Astros themselves and MLB’s actions in response.
people will forget with time
@@pretzels713 I doubt it. This is going to be burned into memory. People still think the Patriots' Spygate scandal (the only problem was *where* their film crew was stationed for a game against the Jets, not what they filmed) was about them filming practices and shit.
it will still be a feel good story for houston. Non of my memory of 2017 was tainted from all of discourse
**loud incorrect buzzer**@@pretzels713
People are never gonna forget , we havent forgotten about the Black Socks @pretzels713
Marwin couldn't hit the broadside of a barn when he came to boston. I definitely agree that he received the best help from knowing what was coming.
Dude the quality is insane, definitely a top 1 baseball youtuber
No matter how much time passes, I will never respect their 2017 title. Doesn’t matter to me what they do or have done since. Once a cheater always a cheater
as an Astros fan we don't care, it counts for me
Who's your team? Genuinely curious.
@@kmena05Your franchise is tainted none of them count. How embarrassing.
Hoes mad
@@ryancirrone3343you crying is embarrassing to men.
According to MLB, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck… then it must be a mongoose!
And who cares? It's just a piece of metal!
How Pete Rose was banned for life but Alex Cora still has a job is mind boggling. So unfair.
I've been wondering for years what the truth of the sign stealing in the playoffs is. I know it's a louder environment, but I just can't accept that NO trash can bangs would be heard on the broadcast. If it really was a baserunner scheme, I think a lot of people would view the 2017 WS differently.
@@marimbaguy715 October crowds are LOUD. Especially that first year where the Astros home crowd was at its loudest. No way a trash can bang could've been heard
@@shoukatsukai But the video shows that the bangs stopped in September. Alex Cora had the equipment removed and put away. Occam's razor says that stayed that way since the bangs never returned and only the industry standard runner on 2nd base system was used from September 21, 2017 to early 2018 when even that was abandoned.
@@corylieder1452 Which is why OP suggesting that "no way they stopped using trash cans in the playoffs" is a ridiculous claim bc Bailey explained it in the video like you said
What was the point of stealing the signs in the first place if not to win? And they certainly didn’t need to do that to make the playoffs, but they did anyway. So they cheated up to a point and then just gave up and left everything to chance in the playoffs?
@@14habibs They 100% cheated in the playoffs, but the actual cheating part was using the camera to steal signs. The confusion/uncertainty comes from what they did with that information, because while we have clear and obvious evidence they used trash can bangs to relay signs for a period during the regular season, we know they basically stopped using that system after the White Sox game where they basically got caught and have no hard proof of it being used in the playoffs. But they wouldn't have been stealing the signs if they had no way to relay them to batter so... what did they do? Was it just used to help baserunners steal signs? Or was there some other system?
My god. As a Dodgers fan, I’ll never be able to forgive them for ‘17. I didn’t know Altuve didn’t want to be part of the scheme, that at least partially makes me respect a bit more a player that I’ve always seen as a legend of the game
Although not as bad as the other players, Altuve still used the signs to his benefits by employing wires underneath his uniform during those 17 to 19 seasons, at least to some extent, after they were told to stop banging on trash cans. Just look at the walk off homerun off of Chapman in 19' (2 and 1 slider) and how Altuve adamantly told teammates his not to take his uniform off as he arrived at home plate.
Altuve benefitted greatly by having guys who cheat on base for him or having pitchers tire sooner. EFF ALTUVE, TOO.
@@RM-fb6sjexactly Altuve was the getaway driver for the bank robbers.
@@RM-fb6sjthis is also why I hate Derek Jeter ironically enough. Total benefactor of cheating teammates
@@julienbowker8493the 2-1 hanging slider in a year where Chapman always threw his slider on 2-1 counts is what made you suspicious?
Another quality second channel upload!
This was a very thorough, well-researched, and well-spoken cover of the scandal. Great work as always, FB
I love Bailey. Hes more than just a TH-camr to me. He's my secret lover. His videos are a joy to my life, and I beg and crawl to him to upload more. My life revolves around this channel. I am nothing without it
bro😭
Down bad
Im just glad your last video about this didnt impact the game, after it impacted the game
Stripping the title would’ve been the easiest decision for me if i was manfred
I remember watching the 2019 World Series and thinking something was off when the Nats catchers used multiple signs with the bases empty the whole series
Their pitchers were tipping.
@@msscott22 All of them?
@@Tr_1391 Not all of them, but 2 of their starters were. I'd have to go back and watch the games again, but even I could tell they were tipping.
Finally a video that tells mostly the story about what really happened, correctly. Interestingly leaving out the Yankees letter from the commissioner regarding their cheating
I didn’t leave it out. I said the Yankees were fined in 2017 like the Red Sox were.
@@FoolishBaseball yes you did. I feel like the Yankees cheating and then going so far to hide the letter that proved it should have been touched on some more.
Thank you for putting this together. Long after the last person involved with the scandal retires or leaves the team, it's the Astros fans that have to endure the "punishment" from the other fan bases for years to come. As you noted, other teams have cheated to some degree, but the only reasons this keeps getting brought up is because the Astros won it all and beat the Yankees and Dodgers (the 2 biggest markets in MLB). As an Astros fan, I have mixed feelings about the whole situation. I'm pissed because I know we didn't need to cheat. I'm defiant because it's been said, and sometimes proven, that other teams cheated too. I'm happy because the win really did lift the city of Houston after Harvey destroyed so much. And despite what other fan bases and haters might say, 2022 redeemed the Astros for us fans...and if you can't accept that, then kiss our orange and blue asses.
No, I think that it keeps getting brought up because no team in history has cheated like the 2017 Astros. The increase in OPS by the Houston Astros from 2016 to 2017: 1B Gurriel .677 -> .817; 2B Altuve .928 -> .957; SS Correa .811 -> .941; 3B Bregman .791 -> .827; LF Gonzalez .694 -> .907; CF Springer .815 -> .889; RF Reddick .749 -> .847; C McCann .748 -> .759. Utility Marisnick .588 - .815 That's an entire lineup with improved OPS from 2016 to 2017. Five of the nine players set career highs that they never topped. It's insane. Nothing like that has ever happened in MLB history. Cheating at such a high level that it isn't even baseball any more. It's some other game.
By contrast, of the regular players on the 2018 Red Sox team, only three improved their OPS over the prior year - Bogaerts, Benintendi and Betts - and only Betts had the best year of his career. Six of the nine regular players actually decreased.
The worst was in the World Series. Just one example, Kershaw threw 51 off speed pitches and the Astros swung and missed at ZERO of them. Someone ran a computer sim, and the odds of that happening were 128,061 to 1. So it would take 4266 years and it MIGHT happen again. Just absurd - why even play the game.
@@drbryant23 The video completely negates your comment. Stop copy pasting 5his stupid shit
@@drbryant23 nice spam loser. other teams have cheated like the 2017 astros. admit it bub
Astros ruined their own legacy buddy, you can thank them for the "punishment." Sorry your team lacks integrity at such a high level, I can't imagine it's fun.
@ well it doesn’t really matter what you think of their legacy. The players cheated, came clean, and went on to win it all again in 2022.
One of my theories is that the backlash to the Astros directly impacted how Manfred handled the sticky stuff cheating epidemic. He went out of his way to let players do it until they were ready to stop it and then didn't do anything comparable for organization investigation as they did with Houston on the sign stealing.
There is one important piece that was left out (likely because it wasn't covered in any of your sources)... Astros fans love to talk about how their sustained success should absolve them from any wrong-doing in 2017. The problem with that is that the amount of money that came in as a result of their cheating in 2017 has aided them in their success. It's one of the biggest reasons why the "punishment" was such a joke. The team increased in value by more than $500M after their "championship." if they hadn't had such a massive increase in money coming in, would they have been able to afford to re-sign or extend guys like Altuve (twice), Verlander (twice), Bregman, and Alverez? They are all key players that contributed to their continued success. And, while they probably would have been able to sign a few of them, do you really think that they would have been able to sign or extend ALL of those guys if not for the massive influx of cash coming in after 2017?
They would have to punish a lot of teams for doing the same shit.
@@Shake688 yeah, but he's talking about the Astros, not a lot of teams.
@CY-1627 the reason for the slap on the wrist punishment is the fact that everyone was using similar methods to get an edge on the pitching. If they punished the astros they would have to punish a lot of other teams.
@@Shake688 No one in MLB history cheated like the 2017 Astros. The statistical anomalies are off the charts.
@@drbryant23 we had the hottest team in the MLB that year it doesnt matter. Even if they didnt cheat we still would have won the WS. We had the best lineup in baseball that year.
been waiting for another second channel vid, good work Mr. Baseball
While it is true that you can no longer view the entire games on youtube from 2019 onward, every single pitch from 2016 - 2024 is available on mlb film room, you can go to each game and theres a 'pitch by pitch' section. Its more inconvenient, but its still possible to see every pitch if a scandal like this happened again.
You don’t get all the time between pitches though. That could include the catcher giving signals and the banging.
@@FoolishBaseball Not only that, Houston had basically the same statistical hitting stats from 2014 to 2022; so, they were always capable of doing that with or without the cheating.
Great video. This was very well done.
As we learned from Lance Armstrong snd the Michigan Wolverines, cheating works, and there is no penalty for being a filthy cheater.
Lance Armstrong got stripped of all 7 of his titles. If that isn’t a penalty I don’t know what is. As for Michigan, we will have to wait and see.
@matherproductions9146 did he lose out monetarily though?
@@nomaddennis2126He's only a rich millionaire now instead of a slightly more insanely rich millionaire.
Now how did Michigan cheat if Stallions and Harbaugh were gone for all their real opponents (not Bowling Green and UNLV 😂)
23:19 Flashback of Rick James episode on Chappelle Show... lololol "Ive got more sense than to rub my feet into someone's couch... Yea, I remember rubbing my feet into Eddie's couch....." .. It was so ridiculous the editors for Chappelle Show did an in-show rewind just to confirm that yes, Rick said one thing, then the total opposite RIGHT after.. he should've gone into politics
That Crane clip at the end is peak comedy
babe wake up foolish just dropped
babe. babe. it's an astros scandal retrospective.
Yo I just randomly thought of you and the Astros scandal after years of absence and you suddenly dropped this on the same day!
i'm surprised nobody caught on to the trash can banging in person. i guess it just didn't sound suspicious
you mean the fans in the crowd?
@@stephenm8725 They mean every baseball player that came to MMP.
I am a little confused about "most bangs", like at 15:20. Wasn't there meaning in no bang as well? Might the number of bangs then instead depend on how many of certain types of pitches were thrown?
We're halfway to getting a "Decade of Ohtani" video
Another *"BANG"er* Astros video from you Bailey.
What if his name was Boolish Facefall instead of Foolish Baseball? That would be kind of funny I think
What if instead of Foolish Baseball.
His channel was called Big Black Balls 😂
Kinda makes me feel bad for being one of those folks who dragged Altuve's name through the mud. It seems that he was not exactly one of the people taking advantage of the scandal actively, but he seemed to still take the lickings with grace. What a guy...
Nope, he knew what was taking place. Didn't report it, didn't do anything. Any win he celebrated is a disgrace.
If you win with others cheating and you do nothing about it, you cheated.
@kawkasaurous If I'm working on a team that I've gotten close to for years at a plant, roofing, or whatever job that requires a fall-arrest system, and I see a homie not using his proper PPE, I might bring it up to the guy, but I'm not going to the foreman, plant manager, or leadership. Terrible analogy, but you get the point. He still has to work with his team for however long he's there. If you're getting paid millions, why would you risk your reputation to snitch? That could also draw a negative reputation for any potential team who might sign for him, to be known as a snitch. I'm merely looking at it from his perspective is all. I could be wrong. I think most would have done the same in his position. If your team is cheating, chances are you are just going to hope they're good enough at it not to get caught and not have to worry about potential consequences.
He deserved a lot worse. Look up the Black Sox scandal. Players who didn't participate but knew and failed to come forward were banned for life.
he was clearly wired against chapman. stfu.
@@HL-hd5ynlmao no he wasn’t, only Jomboy n yankee fans think that as a coping mechanism
As an Astros fan, I appreciate the effort to clear Altuve's name. He's taken the brunt of the hate from the fans, even though he did the right thing, and despite the peer pressure of his teammates in 2017.
From what I have seen, he knew about the cheating and asked them to stop when he was at bat, if this is the case, he still knew about the cheating and did nothing to stop or report it, therefor still as guilty as the others in the eyes of many.
"I knew about the cheating, I didn't say anything about the cheating, but I didn't approve of the cheating so I should be absolved." Nah, his legacy is and always will be tainted. Just like everyone else on that 2017 roster.
@@Schauspielslol he’s going be a hall of famer, cope all you want.
@@MalGK24 don't be so sure. the election committee remember the smallest things. you'll see.
what was his excuse for the wire....a bad tattoo and his wife would get mad at him if he removed his shirt? yeah, ok!
I’ve been blessed with not one but two Foolish Baseball videos on the Astros scandal. Incredible
24 minutes of Baseball Bits? Oh yeah, we're eating good today
Foolish baseball your videos comfort me and make me feel less homesick 🎉
He’s back
and worse than ever!
@@FoolishBaseball no better it’s been long awaited
So according to the logic of your first video on the subject, Carlos Beltran was struggling at the plate?
Journalism. The thing I most appreciated about this is that I did not know Altuve didn’t participate. Thanks for the education so I can enjoy a great ball player more fully
Ummm ... your buzzer just went off
Great video as always, thank you foolish
4:35 seth smith jump scare
😂
Excellent video, I was really paying tons of attention to baseball during these years, but have kinda shifted towards other sports in the last few. It always felt like a losing battle trying to argue that Altuve was the one clean player, and it still hurts me how misinformation and people prioritizing narratives instead of public data led to him being a target and the ridiculous level of public bullying that ensued, especially when so many other actual participants did not receive that treatment from fans. Even though I didn’t pay much attention for a few years, this video was a really nice throwback for me. I always know I can get the best content imaginable from you.
He's not "clean" though. He was aware of his teammates cheating and didn't report it.
It doesn't really matter that Altuve didn't participate. The entire team was complicit including bullpen pitchers who never sniffed an AB in their whole careers. Remember the whistleblower was Mike Fiers.
@Babomomebeo if that's the case than every teammate of a steroid user shouldn't be hof eligible. What about the other dozen teams that were using similar tactics, every player on those teams should be getting the same hate. What about the pitchers using spider tack? Every teammate of theirs should get the same suspensions as well. Your logic doesn't hold water once it's used on a grand scale.
@@Babomomebeothere’s a major difference between being complicit (it’s also not as easy to snitch on your teammates as you make it seem) vs being the primary target of all verbal abuse from fans because everyone blames you for the cheating. It’s also definitely the responsibility of the manager and coaches to put a stop to it or alert the league, not the players.
@@scrub_jay are you giving Mike Fiers a pass because he blew the whistle 2 years afterwards? He was also complicit in the moment.
Chicago White Sox not getting a 2025 top ten pick is a worst punishment than what the Astros got
You could give them all the draft picks and it still might not make a difference at this point
Worst team since the 1899 Cleveland Spiders
@@FoolishBaseballThankfully, Old Hoss Radbourne died so he wouldn't have to be drafted by the White Sox.
For those wondering why, the CBA states a "big market team" can't have top ten picks in consecutive seasons. And despite the fact that Jerry Reinsdorf acts like a small market owner, he falls in a big market.
That’s their own fault
Thank You I was looking for a video like this!! 🙏
Always dislike the "they were an extremely good offense regardless" discussion. Same with Barry Bonds. Them being great without the outside help makes it WORSE that they resorted to these measures and were rewarded for it.
Bonds didn't cheat, though.
@@miguelangelsucrelares5009 Okie doke, let's just forget the time he perjured himself before congress when speaking to his alleged cheating. Definitely doesn't influence how much I trust him. Or also that he went from having a regular person head to having a thumb in its place.
Bonds most likely did cheat, sorry to inform. Just like Sosa cheated even though he continues (continued?) to deny it.
The simple fact they cheated calls into question anything they've ever accomplished as players. If they're willing to cheat in the biggest and most highly scrutinized baseball league in the world WHY would anyone think they'd be unwilling to cheat prior to the MLB? It's not even like a one time thing, it was longer than a season so it wasn't even some momentary lapse of judgement. It was highly orchestrated and deliberate and took every Astros player to hide. They are ALL cheaters (the '17/'18 rosters but probably all of em since too tbh.)
Bonds got better with cheating. The astros did NOT. Sure Marwin and maybe a couple other fringe players had better seasons. But the Astros were better offensively on the road than at home. Every category on offense including HRs, AVG, Slugging, hits, were better on the road. Bonds when from a 30-40hr guy to hitting 70+. Simply statistical evidence to back that you are wrong.
@danielmerkley everyone regressed significantly except altuve lol. Maybe it was just age, maybe not 🤷♂️
It's still hard to fathom how light the punishments were for this. Major League Baseball came down way harder on steroid users than an entire organization doing something much worse.
Manfred was in a tricky spot. Any attempt to discipline individual players would've been a huge mess with the Players' Union.
Meanwhile the Apple Watch Red Sox got _literally_ zero repercussions but nobody talks about that
@@84m30 🤫
@@84m30 I just talked about it
@@FoolishBaseball 'for the greater good of the sport...' aka: We make too much money to have another derailment like we did in 94... and we cant use juice to bring the fans and crowds back either.. best not open this can of worms and hope for the best!
14:33 The answer is no. Hope this helps!
I read an excerpt from a Baseball Bloopers book about a team that buried an electronic buzzer under the batter's box, which was connected by a wire that ran all the way to the center field wall where a team employee was stealing signs using binoculars.
And this supposedly happened all the way back in the year 1900.
I sincerely hope that 2017 title gets stripped from the Astros idc if it takes 50+ years it'll always leave a bad taste in my mouth as a baseball fan how light of a punishment was carried out.
Then I better see a lot of MLB titles fron teams from the past that cheated be stripped too
Lmao never gonna happen
Players union would never let that happen.
Dude. Cheating has been a part of baseball for as long as it’s been a game.
@@BrandonToy That doesn't make it right. And the investigation clearly found Houston guilty. Manfred is a spineless jerk for not taking any action.
Can you share an article about Crane’s War Profiteering? The news clip you had on the screen only mentioned price fixing and phony surcharges
One of the more fascinating things for baseball nerds is that all of the documentation gives us some insight into the debate over whether MLB pitchers can be so good that you can't get a hit off them even when you know what's coming. Yu Darvish pitched a 1hit-1 run gem over 7 innings against the Astros at Minute Maid on June 12, 2017, well into prime trashcan banging. Darvish had a rough start at home against the Astros 10 days prior to that June 12 game, so it wasn't like Yu's success was just the result of an advantageous matchup. Darvish was pitching against one of the best offenses in baseball at a time of year when they were at their hottest *and* the hitters knew what was coming yet Yu still only gave up 1 run on a walk, a sac hit, and a single to left in the 5th inning. MLB pitching is *insaaaane*.
Yu Darvish has had one really interesting career in MLB
Offering immunity will forever boggle my mind. You have all the video evidence of all participants. Manfred is an idiot
It was the same concept as the steroid era. To get the most complete information available offering freedom from punishment usually helps. You have to keep in mind it was a league wide thing they were trying to solve and the Astros are just the face because they ended up winning. I too think Manfred is an idiot but there is no real way to punish a team for cheating when literally everyone was doing it. I will forever have the opinion that the people that are mad nothing happened just aren’t informed enough about the behind the scenes of the sport, there is a reason very few players or coaches spoke out against the lack of punishment. The only possible outcome was to find out how it’s happening, make any further breach over punishable, and then move on. Only way to do that is ask players, only way they answer is without fear of repercussion. In an ideal world they were the only team cheating so punishing them is easy but it’s not always that easy.
Manfred's entire objective was just to make the scandal go away as quickly as possible. It was never about accountability.
That's bc other teams were doing it
As a tigers fan, i always thought he did it because he knew (and if it wasn't for covid) the public would punish the players. He was more concerned about getting everything in the open and punish the team for it. Had he not done that, there's no way all the Info would come out
@@joeywirt7953 that's entirely beside the point. he didn't need to offer immunity right away. he could've done his investigation first without it, see what he could come up with; then if necessary offer immunity to whoever's testimony they needed. if this had been done by a trained prosecutor, the lower level players would've been offered immunity so they could've at least taken down beltran and gonzalez.
Thank God for Pitch Com
“The most banged hitter that season was utility man Marwin Gonzalez”
-Foolish Baseball, 2024
And the Yankees had no issue with having Marwin Gonzalez play for them afterwards
It doesn't matter about performance or who opted out ... they knew and they did nothing to stop it. Zero morals.
It’s giving the full context of what happened. Sorry you couldn’t hear what you wanted to hear
@@Emvio89 morals lol. You must be a priest or pastor if you want to preach on morals. I’m sure you’ve never done something immoral in your life.
It is a shame about Cora. As a Nats fan I was supposed to meet Nyjer Morgan prior to a game and he cancelled. Cora could tell I was a sad 10 YO. He (on the Mets) came and chatted with my family for a few minutes and got us a ball which I still have
"it didnt impact the game ... i didnt say it didnt impact the game" IM CRYINGGG PFFFHAHAHAHAH 😭😭😭😭
This video is very sympathetic towards the cheaters.
Just stating the facts of what happened.
Not sympathetic, just logical.
Remove emotion from the equation.
It reiterates an incorrect assumption about the home-road dichotomy. They are starting from an early assumption - that the Astros must not have cheated on the road, because there were no trash can bangs detected in road games. The MLB Report, which everyone expected would reveal that the Astros cheated only at home, did not address the issue. The only factual finding of relevance was that the Astros cheated during the regular season and "throughout the Postseason" in 2017. img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/upload/mlb/cglrhmlrwwbkacty27l7.pdf
In August of 2017, Kevin Goldstein, Astros Executive sent an email to their scouts to request ways in which they could steal signs from the crowd, rather than from a camera feed, which was an effort to refine their cheating away from Minute Maid (where they would not have needed such assistance because they were using the home camera).
“One thing in specific we are looking for is picking up signs coming out of the dugout,” Goldstein wrote in the message. “What we are looking for is how much we can see, how we would log things, if we need cameras/binoculars, etc. So go to game, see what you can (or can’t) do and report back your findings.”
If you saw Game 7 at Dodger Stadium, it was pretty clear that he was successful. Bregman stole THIRD for the only time in his life, and Gurriel, who averages the fewest pitches per plate appearance in the entire MLB over his career, has a THIRTEEN pitch at bat, casually sitting back on all off speed stuff and fouling it off. And, of course it was later confirmed by Evan Gattis that the Astros knew what Darvish was throwing on each pitch.
Of course they cheated on the road, and you'd better believe that after cheating all year, against teams like the White Sox that lost nearly 100 games, there were not going to stop cheating in Game 7 of the World Series.
I miss when my boy would post these videos more often, now he’s just tweeting all day like Kanye would do.
I had forgotten it was Farquhar who figured it out on the mound first. Loved him when he was on the Ms. Now he has a coaching job there.
The MLB screwed over breaking ball pitchers with the slicker balls.
They probably did that for more home runs during playoff games. Which begs the question, if regular balls were used in the post season, would the WS winner outcome also change?
Seems like game fixing; to a degree.
Same thing but opposite happened in 2019. Juiced balls all year incentivized teams to sell out for home runs, then the ball was deadened in the playoffs and all of those teams were screwed over.
I remember this and was furious, totally screws certain players and teams over
MLB didn’t have the guts to do the right thing and take away that title. Cowards.
The worst part of this in retrospect is how its been levied against Altuve. Hes an easy no doubt HOF and one of the best playoff performers of this generation and this will unfortunately be one of the things hes most known for despite not benefiting from it at all
He knew about it & did nothing to stop it. And he got a ring in 2017, that is definitely benefiting from the cheating
@@catman-du8927 You're right that he was in the wrong for doing nothing about the cheating. Worth pointing out though that given the amount of people who knew about the cheating at the Astros and either participated or didn't challenge it, I think that goes to show that sadly the vast majority of players wouldn't be any better. Altuve happened to be the HOF candidate caught up in the middle of it, but it could have been pretty much anyone.
He’s as guilty as the rest of the cheating astros
im sorry but thats some bullshit level coping. he did nothing to stop it🤣🤣🤣he knew what he was apart of
He will make the HOF don’t worry 😂
I always thought that Manfred having the player’s immunity seemed like he knew other teams were cheating and knew he’d have to punish a lot more people if he started handing out suspensions to one team. I believe this because it was reported during the Red Sox vs Yankees scandal that the teams had told Manfred and he told both of them to stay quiet and not tell the media so they could handle it behind closed doors, but he didn’t hand out any punishments until the Yankees went to the media with it forcing his hand. He was trying to run a business instead of a sport.
15:47 The obvious conclusion to draw from this is that they had a system to cheat on the road too
A system that was better but also one they refused to implement at home despite it's obvious superiority. Nothing gets by you.
@Muckman68 Yeah you're right, he just happened to have an extremely statistically anomalous season of road games where he was better than he ever was or will be, and it just so happened to be during that season
@@Muckman68 so they somehow magically did better on the road than at home despite the cheating helping them at home. nothing gets by you.
Your the prefect type of TH-camr to really be the first big baseball channel. You really have that old school TH-cam feel.
From the book Astroball, Beltran apparently picked up on a tip for Yu Darvish for game 3. IIRC he did a slight twist with his glove for an off speed pitch, and was steady on a fastball. Beltran was apparently obsessive about finding tells like these by watching film
There was no "tip". Beltran floated that rumor because there was no other way to explain the statistical anomalies in the games against Darvish during the World Series. At the time, Darvish had the best K/9 rate of any righthander in MLB history (!!), and his rate against the Astros was over 11.0 in a fairly large sample size. A few months earlier, in June at Minute Maid, he faced these same Astros, and gave up ONE hit in seven innings. But, with the cheating in place, he couldn't get the Astros to swing and miss at any off speed pitches. Darvish, in 200+ games started has only TWO games in his career where he failed to record a strikeout - the two WS games in 2017, when the Astros were cheating. In game 7 Bregman stole third base for the ONLY TIME in his entire career. Gurriel, who saw the fewest pitches per plate appearance in the entire MLB in 2017, somehow worked a THIRTEEN pitch at bat - I blieve it is the longest at bat of his career. Those stats are so crazy that the only explanation that Beltran could come up with was "he was tipping his pitches". Of course, we now know the truth - they were cheating.
You’re the goat brotha!!
"Don't hire blacks because you can never fire them!" WTF man? I am 45 years old and I would of hoped that some of the raciest crap would be out of the work place, but I guess it will never go away.
There’s always going to be guys who have there own issues and take them out on others, thankfully 99.999% of Americans aren’t actually racist
Pipe down
@@hahahajackmyswag Why the fuck should he?
Pretty tame by Texas standards
@@JuanMartinez-xf3uz Texas that bad? I have never visited there. I grew up and live on the East Coast.
As an astros fan, I appreciate the balanced take on this. I feel bad for our Altuve - opposing stadiums booed him the most, and still do to this day
that 2017 series will always have an asterisk
not on any official documentation, kek
Would’ve had an asterisk no matter who won it by that logic
There's no such thing as an asterisk in sports though. Not even for Roger Maris, despite writers in 1961 trying to say there was.
Still champs whether you put a little star on it
that's why i still call them the asterisks after all these years
As an Astros fan, this one hit home. 2022 was indeed a saving grace for this organization.
People don’t forget.
@@TamaleRingwald yes they do. Especially when the players from 2017 go to teams like yours.
Dodgers fans don’t complain about Mookie Betts, Yankees fans don’t complain about Gerritt Cole, Twins fans don’t complain about Carlos Correa, Blue Jays fans don’t complain about George Springer etc..
Now fans of other fanbases who “hate” the Astros, are wanting their team to go sign Alex Bregman.
@ Whatever makes you feel better 😂
@@TamaleRingwald has nothing to do with feeling better, it just is what it is.
@@Nicholas-HTXdodgers dont need bregman rn
@@MattysIsHim never said they did. I’ve seen Yankees and Philly fans wanting him. Alec Bohm may be on the trade block. They could get picks for Bohm and sign Bregman.
Washington is also shopping 3B
What does a liar do once hes dead he lies still, it doesn't matter if the scandal is delt with and over, it doesn't matter how supposedly honest the perpetrators supposedly were, as long as the thieves got away with the treasure then there hasnt been justice.
Oh boy oh boy, Yankees lose and a new baseball bits, can’t get any better.
I literally jizzed when they lost. Wish it had been a sweep though.