What's the most mind-boggling about MOBA's is the insane amount of addictiveness they give. It's like fucking crack, or nicotine. I have sat in this exact spot 5,000 fucking times, literally fuming about this damn game, I watch this video, getting pissed off just thinking about it, and halfway through, I queue up a game of ranked dota. Knowing I don't want to, yet I do anyways. I hate it.
same with me its fucking more addictive than drugs. I had a 30 lose streak 2 days straight with fucking toxic team, any normal people would have gone crazy but I was still playing ranked the day after
@@LivinProoof the thing is that it's always happening the time you want to try hard, I don"t know about LoL but it's the case for dota. Fortunetely for me, I have friends that play with me sometimes so we don't care if it's win or lose we just play for fun in ranked matches
@@theluanvuong5886 stopped at 2018. Tried again just for the sake of nostalgia and just 5 minutes into turbo and im just cant play dota anymore(4k hrs). Im now happpy and contented playing single player and fighting games
You don't get as many new players because of how toxic the community can get against newbies on a game that has an ABSURD learning curve. When a newbie makes mistakes here & there, they get obliterated by his/her team mates, as though getting slaughtered by the opposing team isn't bad enough already. They then quit and the vicious cycle continues and all you're left with is a 'veteran' community who are all growing older & dying of old age. By the time these toxic players are all gone, it might be too late for the game to be retained or revived.
It's not just the toxicity. It's just impossible to get into a hobby that other people have been grinding for 10 years. If you just start the game and play against ai / normal games you dodge most of the toxicity. If you just hit lvl 30 and bought 20 champs and start playing ranked you will get flamed. Imagine you started tennis 2 weeks ago and go into a randomised couple tournament with people playing tennis for 10 years. It's not going to work out fine and the problem is not the toxicity
It also doesn't help that the veterans then make the brain dead decision to smurf because of "long q times", murder new players while talking shit, then wonder, "why is the player count dying?" PS: If they're a pro player, fucking play an aim trainer or something while waiting for an actual opponent. It's not rocket science!
@@MimrsHeadAny well established game suffers from this eventually. Games get more complicated as they go on, and as the average level of player skill increases it starts to get really hard for new players to learn enough of the game to really make meaningful decisions in that game to win. Any game community that's been around for longer than a decade tends to have serious new player problems, tcgs, mobas, fighting games are the 3 examples I'm most familiar with. I'm a pretty enfranchised yugioh player at this point and even though I think the game is great at a high level, its really just objectively miserable for new players to get into.
I'll never forget I got called mentally ill in my very first game of league, playing against bots. You know, the mode designed specifically for beginners. All because I didn't group mid and just kept hitting my turret
I don't think it's really a matter of losing vs winning. It's about stomps. Getting stomped isn't fun, and stomping the enemy team isn't very fun either. But if you're evenly matched, it can still be a fun game even if you lose. The problem there is the matchmaking is jank af.
Switched to fighting games because of this. Stomps don't last 20 mins and even matches are so goddamn thrilling. Also 1v1 so you're not getting bogged down by teammates.
@@inerlotechnologies4908I was going back to my lane after a teamfight. I got yelled at for walking around a brush instead of walking through, no kidding.
@@inerlotechnologies4908 Well, if you walk into bush from a certain angle where enemy can see you before you entering bush, they will know your location. Where if you play aroud fog of war and enter bush, they will never know that you are already in the bush. Basically similar to how you break vision from moving around the trees in dota 2, where you want to be sneaky as possible before blinking in and surprise enemy
yeah, starting dota is like trying to play basketball first time after seeing couple game. and not realizing what traveling it is. but instead only traveling there is 128167316573621 extra things you need to know to properly play the game, just properly , not good , not well, but play proper without you having to figuratively hitting yourself in the head
@@Kyong008 play it and you will know it's truly a gem. Decade old you say, yet keeps getting updates and amazes newer crowds. Name another title that's stuck for this long and still hasn't lost it's shine!!!
The main problem is MOBAs are such a huge time and effort investment. I played it a lot during university years, but even then it was a huge liability. It interferes so much with normal human functioning that it either becomes your whole personality outside of job, or you just quit. I tried playing dota in turbo mode but even there you have to spend 1,5 hours to play 2 matches and you still have to keep up with itembuilds/abilities/balance patches + stay sharp in terms of execution. And it is very taxing mentally. The complexity is its beauty, but it also requires investment and dedication that are quite unhealthy in my opinion.
The complexity is just insane at this point. It's been over a decade since I first played a League game and I still remember a game when the opposing players just ran away at first sight of my Fiora, who just picks up kills with a mindless point-then-click ultimate spell. Back then it was easy to play GP, you didn't have to contend with champions with a million dashes, skills or mechanics, and being quick enough to side-step meant you're golden. Now there's so many things you have to do. Constant practice has honed me, but old age has just made my hand-eye coordination worse... but hey, you can still win matchups if the opposing side is stupid and doesn't know what your champion does or are too lazy to deward and render useless a trolling Teemo support. A lot of what I do now are just muscle memory, but I understand that the game might be too difficult for new players to get off the AI bot queue.
That's one of the reasons I believe something like Counter Strike is as popular as it is. While yes it's competitive, it doesn't sacrifice simplicity in the process. It also helps that it didn't change much over the years either. So that helps newer players since the game isn't changing every 1 damn seconds! lmao
@@SpearraYeah, the hardest thing is to keep up with a game that's constantly changing. I started playing csgo around the same time I started lol and dota but one thing that always discouraged me from mobas was the "bro just play X amount of games and you'll get a feel for it" but I had to always repeat the cycle of sinking 30-40h into a single character just to understand how they currently interact with everyone. Cs on the other hand, I had the basics nailed down and even if my aim is not the best I'm still having fun and not getting a 45 min beating session cuz the enemy team wants to troll us for not being good enough and someone doesn't want to surrender lol
Agree, I used to rank solo alot but realized its not worth the mental. So i relegated to enjoying it with friends and went to be turbo warriors in Dota lol
Bro I play fo the crownfall event and I got a free dota plus membership and 15 immortal treasures and mythical sets. Sadly no arcana yet but even with normal there are so many sweaty guardians in normal that thought they were playing ranked like really dumb subhumans that thinks they need to win even if it's normal wtf.
Dropping league back in 2022 (max rank was d2 in NA and plat 1 in korea), was the best thing I ever did with mobas lol. Fuck competitive games I'm back into rpgs and story games having a lot of fun with no stress.
Same here, ever since I quit playing competitive multiplayer games and just play singleplayer ones like Hollow knight, Monhun, Portal. I just feel much happier lol
Dota did provide Turbo mode. It was fun for a while but people eventually figured out what the most cancer hero/builds/teams in that mode and spoils the fun entirely.
I have seen it first hand, people are mental in turbo now a days trying to early pick ban op heroes- Silencer, Drow, Sniper, Zeus, Pudge they are most picked..... The first 3 are a menace to deal with due to their insane Dps and ranged attacks and they get core items fast in turbo
@@manoyalIm a Drow main and yeah.... As much as I want to defend that I could not because the moment you get a foothold of the early income the DPS is Massive
Deadlock still has to prove it has staying power, people are still figuring it out and they are constantly changing it, like the video said, that's when mobas were actually fun. When it gets figured out and Valva falls back into their customary 1 update every 6 months then it's actual staying power will be tested.
@@somerandom2858 Its really good though. It has an extremely solid ground when it comes to gameplay. If they literally just added more maps to the game as it is now i would love it, cause it really feels like a solid game already.
As a DotA (Warcrfat III) player, I quit ranked match and started to play Turbo. It's more fun when everyone is trying to win, and a lot less stressfull when you have to that guy that lose the lane and starts feeding.
Been playing Dota since 2008 and I still enjoy it until now, it is my "go to game" when I wanna to relieve stress and have fun. Tbh, I guess it depends on the person playing whether he's gonna be affected with toxicity of the players. I love Dota but sadly we had to accept that this is the game now.
As someone who has played LoL and Smite, I think a criminally underrated game is Heroes of the Storm, even if it is basically just in maintenance mode. No items, abilities that evolve, almost no buff camps but instead bigger minions you throw at the enemy, shared team XP, and a quickplay queue system where you pick your character before ever getting into the game meaning you can have matches of 5v5 dps. It's a simpler game where you have to worry a lot less about dozens of items and item combinations, and more about how you want to play your hero. And more than the other MOBAs I've played, HotS consistently has the most insane comebacks or clutch victories. What would be assured loss in other games is just your last chance in HotS because snowballing is a lot harder, and you can have one player who only focuses on killing minions and grabbing camps to level up the team and keep you on pace with the enemy even when you're dead. A lot of MOBAs focus so much on the individual at the core of their gameplay that it can also lead to a lot of players focusing on their KD than actually working as a team. You get people cursing out supports for not having enough kills when those supports have been trying to help those same players get those kills the whole game. In HotS, jumping the enemy is a group activity, not based on the last kill but everybody high-fiving each other after killing the enemy.
that is why I advocated for the incredible MOBA Heroes of the Storm from Blizzard. The game was so easy to learn, 15 to 20 minutes a match, no farming, no items, just team fight and objectives. but MOBA fans are addicted to their games. They invested so much to learn and cosmetics that they are like slaves of their drugs. they would never change games even for the good.
@@opticalmoose8091 they also pushed it as a (primarily) competitive game, whereas its focused should have been closer to a casual MOBA, that also happened to have a grassroots competitive scene.. which it did, but then the HGC ate up the HOTS budget completely
Yeah but matchmaking was horrible and blizzard never fixed it. I quit after, I am not kidding, a 23 games lost in a row. I am by no means great player, but also not a terrible one. The balance was so off that killed it for me.
So the worst parts of a MOBA without the best parts? Teamfights aren't usually fun because you're relying on your team to play well, which often times just doesn't happen. On the other hand Laning and farming allows you to express your skill to the maximum.
I want to mention something that people don't usually mention but I used to date a person who had little brother syndrome and was addicted to League, he'd play all night trying to get the ranked skins for each season. I eventually broke up with him because he was very stubborn when I asked him to stop playing because it's clearly taking a toll on their mental health. But it made me realize that competitive games such as MOBAs attract people with inferiority complexes since it's their only outlet to make themselves feel worthy which explains why MOBAs are so toxic. This trauma is especially prevalent among Asians with the way Asian households work. And it just so happens my ex was also Asian.
competition attracts people with inferiority complexes? what a dumb take. humans just like to compete. ever since there were the first 2 cavemen they raced to see whos faster or lifted rocks to see whos stronger.
I relate to this so much with my ex! He would project his insecurities onto me as well and mocked my hobbies as if League was the only and superior game to play. He couldn’t stand losing even in a friendly game of just the two of us like Smash Bros💀
True mobile mobas, like mobile legends are really growing in southeast asia, the skill ceiling is low, everyone can actually play it, shorter game time, portable and fun. It has already become a culture here in Malaysia and Indonesia literally everyone play it You also can be competitive and climb up the rank but it's just a choice nonetheless 😅
Been on MLBB for 5 years and I'm content with Mythical Honor, cancer gameplay and players never goes away even when I started HoK 3 weeks ago but it's still a fun experience since it's a matter of playing with the hands dealt to you. I find HoK more fun than Wild Rift which I only played for a week then dropped.
In my area/country, MOBAs have not declined in popularity at all in fact it's become even more uniquitous expanding to an even wider audience from teens to young professionals from all walks of life. MOBAs are just declining for PC, I think all the NEW blood aren't going to PC in the first place but instead go straight to MOBILE. PC cafes have declined in popularity as well - everyone has a smartphone now. A lot of PC players just don't consider mobile to be 'real' for some reason, but the numbers don't lie. It's kind of mindblowing to me as you walk into a 7-11 or 24 hr convenience store, see a workplace break-room, on the commute to and from work or school, school or university front gate, apartment complex stairs, parks, everywhere - you see people playing on their phones. Hell companies sponsor leagues for their own workforce.
@@danielwoods3896 I am quite the opposite. I just can't play pc games. I guess it's because I grow up with mobile mobas whenever I try pc mobas they are really boring for me.
You forgot to mention Mobile MOBAs like Mobile Legends, Honour of Kings and Wild Rift. They're faster paced, less strict, more casual and matches only last around 15 to 25 minutes. MOBAs are not declining, in PC maybe, but not in mobile.
Well I think ppl are either too consumed with 'Mobile gamers are not real gamers' or think that mobile games are just spawns of Satan with lootbox, microtransaction and gacha, tools of gambling. They look at the surface and make that decision. Before that mindset is killed off with extreme prejudice, the good mobile games will continue to fly under the radar (I don't count Genshin because that can be played in PC/Console)
Mobile mobas aren’t a real thing. They are low skill floor phone games made for broke losers in third world countries. No one ACTUALLY goes out of their way to play a mobile game. They do so because they’re broke, the game is free, and it’s playable on a device they already had to begin with (phone).
@@eruiluvatar6688it really is amazing how this got 45 likes, has to be all third worlders posting these pro-mobile game comments. Mobile “games” aren’t real games
The truth is, We don't miss the old versions of the game, We miss the people who we can have fun with in the game... Even with random people who also just want to have fun like you and me, to goof around and make a mess yet felt satisfied even in defeat because it was fun. Unfortunately they're gone... What's left are the saddest, loneliest, pathethic try hard pricks. I can't play any game with these kind of people.
As a former dota 2 unranked player, this is correct. I did not give a single turd for balance, I just picked Night Stalker. Why? Cuz he's cool and I feel like a terror of the lanes once the sun goes down. I officially left dota 2 about 5 years ago, playing 5-10 matches every 1 year, but then ultimately uninstalling every time. I think now is it for me. Last time I played was about 1 year ago and I have no urge to go back. Y'wanna hear a really bad indictment of dota 2 players? The last game of DotA 2 I played was a win... That's right, my final game before quitting was a WIN. I was playing Night Stalker mid cuz I like getting fast levels and ripping up lanes, and I carried my team to a win. Y'know what it was that made me uninstall for the final time? My team was flaming the enemy team as we were about to win... I tried telling them to cool off, and go easy on them, but they just kept screaming at the enemy team. This is how wretched the DotA 2 community is... Even when I WIN, I'm still disgusted by them. I didn't feel like standing with my team and raising my fist in the air with them. I was just thinking "I helped these terrible people get a win..."
Thats it for mobas man. Some wins i feel like wow, i stomped the shit out of some guy whos just came home from his office job and is just trying to have some fun. If i was on the otherside of this one sided beating, it wouldn't be fun either. Wow my team are literal cruel children who has the emotional intelligence of a 5th grader. But the same can be true on some losses. Those games which ive put the entire world on my shoulders and carried them. A battle which actually feels like the weight of the world is on your shoulders as you claw back to victory. Your opponents give you their respect as they smash your ancients and it feels as though there's nothing else anyone on your team or theirs could have done better. On games like that, i sit and feel my heart beat. Thinking about how epic that felt even for a loss. Sometimes its the same, for a win as well and thats the euphoric feeling we all look for. That feeling of battling the impossible, clawing your way out of the jaws of defeat. Coming back from an impossible lane and showing them why they were right about trying to put me down when they had a chance. THAT is the meaning of MOBAS like dota and lol. But truthfully, those exhilarating, fleeting moments are never enough to outweigh the toxic nature of dota and lol.
This is why when I report people in a match, my own team has no immunity or bias. When they do this crab mentality at the losing team, I usually humiliate them in chat then report them.
I get your point about winning and losing, but that literally applies to every multiplayer game in existence. It’s the reason why high level COD players cry about SBMM because they can’t dumpster noobs, it’s why sports games have to have separate lobbies for all the pay to win bullshit custom teams, it’s why fighting games never ever grow because it’s always the same people that have played that shit longer than MOBAs have been around. All multiplayer games have that issue. I think one major issue is just a common one in the industry as a whole. Lack of new/innovative ideas. MOBAs are still dota/league, 12 year and 15 year old games. Smite has had success (we will see how Smite 2 does) but even that games a decade old at this point. A lot of major genres are losing players just because developers haven’t come up with new ideas in a decade. Hell even battle royals are considered “new” still, but that’s also a decade old at this point.
lmao there are only so much "new" ideas to be discovered. if you have alr exhausted the pile of ideas and any possible variations, you are done, as simple as that.
There's a lack of new/innovative ideas because any new idea gets added into the existing 10 year old games instead of building new games that could better utilize those new mechanics.
Fighting games don’t grow moreso due to the lack of games with a proper online infrastructure and lack of content besides 1v1 fighting to get the initial interest of more casuals. When it comes to better players, that’s an issue in every game. The bigger issue is the lack of in-depth tutorials IN GAME for casuals to learn easier. No normal person wants to look up a million guides just to play a character correctly, nor should they have to. I say this as a fighting game player.
@@aarong8099Fighting games don't grow because casuals don't like getting steam rolled. Tutorials are just part of the reason, but imo the biggest hurdle is learning neutral. You can't have an in-game tutorial that goes in depth, and you basically have to play online to learn. Unlike MOBAs where you can blame your teammates, you can't do that with fighting games.
It's a shame that games that tried to break the mold and do something different in the MOBA space all got shut down because they weren't League killers. Dead Island Epidemic, Heroes of the Storm, Dawngate. Two of those games never made it out of beta/early access before being shut down despite actually being pretty fun and unique. HotS was increasingly mishandled by Blizzard until they decided to just shut it down in favour of their precious cash cow baby (a very close situation to how Epic Games handled the original game mode in Fortnite). There were once a lot of DC and Marvel based MOBAs in production too, but none of those saw full release either I believe. It would be nice to see new MOBAs being made again, as the genre surely has something more left to explore, and new games with much smaller rosters could definitely attract both new and old players who are put off by the bloat found in League and DOTA 2. Hell I'd take a remake of Demigod at this point, and that only has a roster of like 10 characters.
In DotA(Warcraft3 Mod) days.There is no ranking system. People are just having fun whether they win or lose. If other team is too strong, just switch the strong guy to the weaker team, then play the next match. Now people just grind for toxic ranking system to meet more toxic people, but not fun.
Nostalgia blinds so many people from fun: this doesn't apply only to DotA 2 but to other games too. People need to understand that when people evolve, so do the masses' taste and aesthetics; a game evolving is trying to match with current trends and fads to stay relevant and not be complacent which may result into a game being boring for- God knows how long. I admire the changes happening in different games. Especially with DotA's current events, you can see the hardwork these developers put into it along with the artists and writers of the team. Though I can't say the same for everyone, newer content is fresh and alternative; and I like it.
Nah while I agree that the community was way less competitive and toxic the further back you go, Dota in particular has just been getting destroyed slowly every patch for the past like 8 years. It gets more bloated and uninteresting with every patch Valve shits out. Nostalgia is just a cheap bait. Not everything improves as time goes on. Sure, you can pick out some good changes like the better UI or that everyone has their own courier, but they are in the minority. I can't even think up any positive changes other than those two to be honest with you.
@@83RhalataShera As a dota player since beta who took a 5 year break I disagree completely. I think the map feels way better now, top jungle, dual rosh and portals were all great additions, as well as neutral item drops, as it adds more emphasis on jungling, timing and build variety (and the feeling of sometimes getting just the loot u need.) Moreover, playing support feels so much better now, with gold and EP reward for dewarding, free observer wards, money share from jungled stacks etc etc. Aside from a sense of nostalgia, I don't miss the days of 1 courrier for team and feeling like beggar when playing support. I feel also there is actually way less trolling and toxicity then when I played (though it always happens with MOBAs). Back in the day "mid or feed" was so common, or people feeding the courier omg ...
Bruh Dota is objectively at its peak balance & experience-wise. It's never been a better game than it is right now. Kids (at least the ones that spend their time gaming) are just zombies nowadays. When you say "when people evolve" what you actually mean is "when millions of teenagers get their dopamine receptors fried by early exposure to addictive mechanics through their phones"
The New heroes from Valve ruined the game for me. The look like trash and were so incredibly annoying to play against. Extreme mobility combined with tons of stuns/CC. The OG heroes were simply more fun to play against. Hats also ruined the look of the game. Look at TI 1-3 replays and compare it to now. The game looked so good and clean back then. Now it's a complete mess and I can't even tell whats going on with all the messy particle effects and skins. I do agree that they made support much more fun to play over the years though.
The problem with mobas is the insane time commitment. It's common for people to say that "You'll suck for the first 1000 hours". And you have to do a double take that you are expected to be terrible after 1000 hours. But in a moba 1000 hours isn't even that much which is mind boggling. Mobas require too much of a time commitment and whenever i have friends ask about league i always tell them not to play it even though i play it.
This latest patch has probably been some of the most fun I've had in a long time. Why? Turbo + Clownfall. The variety of grinding CrownFall and having to essentially play random draft because I need to get certain tokens to move through the map. I also never play solo, it's always with mates and having a laugh in the process.
I DARED to try a new champion in normals recently, (the audacity, I know) and for all the four games I played I got pinged constantly for stepping on teemo shrooms (I know, sorry I should've avoided the invisible things, my bad), for not one shotting enemies after getting 2 kills as an adc when the support stole all my kills afterwards, (sorry, I should've been a god at last hitting with a champion I never played, my bad), and for being generally worse than the 200k mastery points enemy botlane, (sorry I should've played 500 games against bots before DARING to play a normal game, my bad). This is why I don't play often, every single game there's trolls, afks, and toxic people, and at that point winning feels awful because you let those awful people on your team win instead of making their life as horrible as they made yours. This is why people int, this is why people ff, NEVER PLAY LEAGUE OF LEGENDS
The easiest MOBA to get into is Smite because it has a mode of Arena where it's a lot more casual and it allows you to learn the abilities of each character
Smite in concept is very cool, but the gods they release feel inconsistent and random. Damn near every other god is from a new mythos so now we have 5 pantheons with 1-2 gods in them.
This is another reason why Mobile Mobas are becoming more popular. Playing a rank match in dota or LOL you'll have to spend 40-50 mins trying to win one rank match with toxic team mates . An average rank match in mobile mobas are like 15-20 mins so even if you get stuck with toxic team you won't have to spend an hour with them ranting.
The biggest problem with mobas is matchmaking. One bad teammate can make a game unwinnable, and they specifically give you bad teammates to make you play more. If you can find a good 5 stack mobas are actually the most fun competitive genre.
This is true to any online game. The first time is the most fun and enjoyable part. After a year or two, it will become too competitive that it’s no longer fun.
You forgot one important thing, the improvement in smartphones gives us mobile mobas with shorter match length and more casual.. im a former dota2 player but the convenience of mobile moba is much better than spending time playing an hour length game of dota... I know many dota1 veterans from 2000s that doesnt play dota2 but now plays mlbb ... In china , hok is their biggest moba. Moba never declines, it actually got more players, just not in pc but mostly in smart phones
Amen. I'm very much in the same boat. I found MOBAs so fascinating and really grew to appreciate the genre. But holy cow, I can not invest my time in a game where a single match can easily take you and hour of just walking around and grinding and each match only giving you a miniscule amount of progression. The bite sized approach of the mobile counterparts has streamlined the whole process and makes the whole experience less depressing and allows and makes trial and error easier.
I’ve played ml for three years and it’s rlly beginner friendly for the most part. Most heroes only have 3 skills+regen skill+ one choosable skill (ofc there are exceptions) The ranking system is rlly friendly, getting to mythic rank, even mythic honour is rlly easy even if you just play 1 game every 1 or 2 days. Sure, the community has been somewhat toxic, but mlbb has doubled down on its chat moderation that now blocks most of the hate.
@@m136dalie so far no mobile moba is near dota experience... Mlbb is fast paced and short queue time. Hok is another one (in my opinion) better moba than mlbb but it has less players
I started playing DotA 2 in 2021, with absolutely no knowledge of the game, the characters, or MOBAs in general. I have 3.6k hours and play strictly turbo. It's not always fun, but it's less annoying than being stuck in a regular match for too long. Learning all the spells for all the characters was the hardest part, but the new player feature at least teaches you the basics on what lanes mean and how the game works. It's learning all the other tricks like creep blocking, pulling, blocking camps, ward placement that people get upset over in the beginning. But turbo is chill, people play what they want and build how they want without /too/ much pushback. And with the toxicity report system it's easy to avoid the people that complain about other people's builds/griefers/toxic chat - most reports go through if they're actually being toxic.
I stopped playing DotA because most of my friend / party are gone missing They stop playin the game, either they got a life or got hooked by another game otherwise it's the same thing It's lonely to play the game now, there's no one to brag about how good i am, or when sometimes made funny shit and want them to see it Man i miss the good ol time, not the game but the friend we made a long the way is the best feeling ever Hop in to internet cafe and play with bunch of random people there, get know to each other and slowly become friend. It's great That's why rn i love to be Vtuber or streamer cause i can meet new friend But well idk if i'm ready to lose them again Fck life la, chibai
Not really a MOBA player, but this same thing seems to happen to pretty much any hyper competitive genre. Looks at how fighting games have declined over the last 20+ years as a prime example.
I’m not sure why ppl don’t want to review other MOBA options such wild rift, HOK, mobile legends, etc. Those titles are designed to be more newbie friendly, with mobile legends heroes are keep being revamped to be even easier and easier. Those are where your newbies are coming to. Almost nobody have the time for 1 hour match anymore. That’s too long time commitment, esp if you already know halfway thru the match that your team is gonna lose.
This kinds of video target market is pc gamer or english based country. So none of those guys want chineese rip off get mentions cause that gonna make viewer left video early. Nobody on pc market thoughts moba on phone is great idea, nobody even playing it. So why mentions something nobody playing it in english based country?
I would call it the moba paradox. mobas were the perfect game for teens and young adults back then, and thus became an absolute phenomenon. but that generation got older, got a life, and the insane time consumption of the genre became a liability instead of a selling point. same thing with complexity. when an entire generation is aboard learning together, it was spectacular. but the time passed, we got older, and mobas did only get more complex since then, which became an alienating factor for new players. hardcore players are ever hungry for fundamental changes, but those changes only makes the game ever progressively inaccessible for new audiences. who to cater for? I stopped playing dota when I realized that a week playing ranked somewhat consistently would get you at max some 50 matches. in the context of mobas, that's nothing. in the context of my life, that's a fcking week. add on top of that the fact that it is a team game, and I don't have a team myself, so I have to play with random people. consider also that every match is played against another team of another 5 people, in this insanely intricate game, that takes some 40 minutes per match. you get a gut feeling of what went wrong, what went right, and if someone or something were most responsible for the win/loss. but it's incredibly hard to know for sure, and if you want to study the match to discover, you would still probably won't be able to understand 100% of what happened, and it would take another fcking 40 minutes of your life. that's almost half a movie. I mean, why would I do that if I'm not even having fun??????????????????? why would I spend those countless hours on a game in which I can barely gauge if I'm getting better or worse, in which I need months to get substantial results (if I'm lucky...) while wasting a big chunk of my life and not even having a good time?????? it made sense when I was younger, my friends played and I had a lot of free time. I played ranked alone to scratch my itch of playing when they were offline, when I ranked up I would tease them, and when they were online I would train my ranked characters or just goof with them. it took a LOT of my time, but it was a blast. now almost none of them plays this sh1t anymore. it became just simply waste of time. now I just play bullet chess, and tekken. fast matches, all individual, so it's easier to interpret and learn, and it all depends solely on me. if I want to improve, it doesn't takes hundreds of hours. and if I don't care to improve, matches are fast, and the game is intense and captivating all the way through (instead of having peaks of action like mobas have). and it's pretty probable that when riot's FG comes out, team play will become a standard feature on these games (it has been strongly rumoured that tekken will get 2v2 tag play, if I understood it correctly). honestly, I think that mobas are meant to be more and more just this insane hardcore niche. it won't d1e, and I think it will remain popular probably forever. but I think that the trend is to become less and less popular over the years. I can only see myself going back to dota if they made a standard mode with smaller, procedurally generated maps for just 3v3. better yet if they made items available to you in the shop to be randomly chosen from a limited pool set by you beforehand, like a "deck". and if games had turbo pacing. the icing on the cake would be if either side could only pick heroes from their alignment, dire could only pick dire heroes and radiant... radiant. it would be much wilder experience, and less appealing to competitive play, as it would be very unbalanced and RNG based. but instead of demanding you to have a phd level knowledge of the game, a smaller pool of heroes forced to improvise builds every game and smaller teams would downsize A LOT of the complexity. I mean, it makes sense in my head at least 😅
3:30 my first time playing dota was some guy teaching me lycan as thanks for downloading the latest version of the map off me. Afterwards I went back to playing LoaP and unranked FFA matches. Later i got into league and had to teach myself the game and genre because my friends only taught me the very basics. Honestly this genre is the only one that rewards player experience in the way it does, i think that's why its appealing.
I think MOBAs and Fighting games have that in common. Knowledge Checks are the best types of rewards since you when you beat someone who doesn't know what you did, it felt good as hell.
@@jrbudoybudoy I can agree with that, but it also feels good to learn. A friend and I used to play Blazblue and he had a Taokaka combo that had a mid-air reset grab. Finally he trained me to reactively grab, and I broke it only to discover he had ANOTHER RESET IN CASE I BROKE IT.
Toxicity. Remember friends...your never the bad player. Everyone else is. Now imagine that everyone on both sides has this mindset. Add in a ungodly amount of caffeine (or drug of your choice).....and there you go.
the problem is that , there i no fix for it cause MOBA games are based on competition and competetive matches so if you make it more casual and fun , it hurts the competetive scene an im not only talking about the pro scene , every rank literally every rank higher than archon is fully sweaty and people are grinding to get into a better rank , the fun section can be smth that arcade does and the only fix is just balanced patchs or new contents like new agh , new obj or new hero thats it! not getting new players is not smth new in MOBA games cause most of people wanna have fun in games and MOBA is not a fun genre, wcyd man its MOBA
I think beyond that the lack of diversity and creativity in the game makes it shit. Like the video was saying back in the day everyone was experimenting with builds and comps way more. Now it seems new off meta builds are removed from the game when discovered or just so unviable that they aren't fun. I remember back in the day league felt like you could really explore different ways of playing. Now every game is the same. Jungle pathing, competing for scuttle like there isn't much diversity in what you can do same with laning, phase. I think the competitiveness has something to do with that but also the devs for punishing creative off meta decisions rather than rewarding it.
I remember this ranked match I had on mobile that went like this based on my memory (this was in 2017): First minute - Enemy team was already yapping about how boring we were for our comp (1 tank, 1 mage, 1 jungle carry, 1 ADC, 1 support; I was the tank with engage skills) Second minute - seems like a normal lane phase but only the enemy ADC and mid were visible, ADC leaves after 1-2 waves Third minute - our Jungle detects a 5-man gank on mid and pings us to gather Fourth minute - enemy team surrenders after getting wiped out and we lose 0 members It's always awesome putting these types of players in their places - the trash.
I genuinely think mobas are very fun, complex experiences with rich characters, aesthetics, lore and strategy gameplay that are absolutely fine and the ONLY problem is that, because of how extremely competitive they have grown to be, flaws that would be completely meaningless become apparent and problematic. If everybody just suddenly stopped chasing a number playing ranked and just focused on playing the games themselves while not caring for ranks, every single moba comunity would suddenly become the least toxic possible. We already compete enough in jobs, tastes for art, college degrees and paychecks. We don't need to compete in our passions. Just play to win and stop when you're tired and stop chasing an arbitrary number on an online leaderboard
@@reformierende_personI reached master on Wild Rift on season 1 or some other early season and I can't even get passed emerald as for now in 2024, so it's definitely more competitive now with more champions or I just have a skill issue lol.
I had to learn for myself that theres a difference between a game being addicting and rewarding me with a little dopamine here and there to keep me chasing, and a game being actually fun to play. Like. The whole time. Im trying to refocus on the latter. I want to have fun losing too. I dont want to sink any more of my life into hours of frustration chasing a brief win. I dont want to be angry that Im not winning. I want to be like "oh well, it was exciting anyway".
Because most MOBA players react exactly like Tyler1 does when things don't go their way. I work in retail; I don't need adult infants swearing at me and/or other players over inconsequential circumstances every 30 seconds when I'm just there to have fun after my 8-hour day that was very likely peppered with verbal abuse from strangers.
Solo q imo just like gambling on better teammate or worst opp. That's why it's kinda addictive. There are so much uncertainty that is beyond our control. To add insult to injury, the community is mostly really not newbie-friendly. Your teammate expect you to know what you do, as if you have almost no room to explore or learn. The only way to enjoy the game is by playing with friends (ideally 5 stack team). But then you'll face a more difficult opp as they also got a 5-stack team, raising the probability for your team to lose.
Moba is just my favorite genre(if that's the right term). I just love how u need to learn a lot of stuff like itemization, skill builds, farming patterns, power spikes, the lore is entertaining too. That being said, it's proof that u need to be either passionate, obsessed, or addicted to the game before you really get the most out of it. I've been playing dota since WC3, and now am playing dota2. Been a league player too, as well as the rip-off, Mobile Legends. I've been stuck at crusader for a long time in dota2 coz i dont have the consistency to play the game all the time and get really good with it. But lately i tried spamming turbo games just for the love and to have fun by trying out different heroes. It was actually fun, no pressure on winning coz you're basically trying out new heroes for yourself or you're just passing time. After 2 weeks of turbo games, i had enough and went back to ranked. I actually improved and saw the game from a different perspective.
Watch Tyler1's rage. Understand that no matter how good you are or what your rank is, this is how the game is going to make you feel. When you lose, you'll feel terrible. When you win, you'll feel terrible. Even at the highest rank in the game people will troll you, give up, afk, leave the game, and lose on purpose out of spite. It's not worth it.
4:30 One word: N, E, R, F, Nerfs: the same type of change that created these problems below: 1. Making already unfun gameplay more unfun by how outdated these nerfed characters are in comparison to current meta 2. Nerfed characters being unplayable 3. Unable to carry the toxic teammates over the picked character they already nerfed to the ground 4. Making variety of large roster pointless let alone meaningless (that's why you always stuck having smaller base roster in modern games) 5. Making meta even worse by having C- tiers worth of unplayable nerfed characters 6. All of the first 5 problem unsolved (mostly both 3 and 5) made this problem at 6:18 impossible to be solved in the first place "NERF" alone is why Multiplayer gaming is always dying Edit: *Almost forgot to add this timestamp above
Which is ironic, because a Big problem people have with LoL Is damage creep, everyone exploding in less than a second due to an excess of damage. It was literally buffing too much the problem.
Watching this as someone with a couple thousand hours in Overwatch, who’s only played DOTA for like 6 hours, League for like 3-4 matches, but who has also just put 74 hours into Deadlock in the 13 days of having access: 😳😅
To be honest losing is not that bad, there are plenty of moments where i didn't win and it didn't felt bad, especially when the battle is very decisive and both teams are struggling to find advantage, also fun when you are losing badly but your team doesn't take it seriously, the main problem is that people don't have pacience anymore and want to grind the game like crazy people. Losing would be way less unfun if there wasn't so much saltyness and rage, its like every people wants to end the game in 20:00 minutes everytime and if you commit a single error you are the anti-christ and deserve the death penalty, this necessity to optimize your matches is so unfun that everyone is trying to get out to either grind faster or to end the game before it gets toxic, i wish people were less angry😔
It depends what character you are playing. If you play a mage like vel'koz than can sit behind and throw spells regardless of game state is not as bad as playing an assasin like rengar against a fed tanky coordinated team where you can do absolutely nothing but go in and die. That is why azzap has the "never ff" mentality because he plays fucking vel'koz
New player to league. I do not play it alone, only with friends I have never had this feeling of gut wrenching guilt for not being good at a game i have never played before. Like my friends arent toxic but I feel more like im letting them down rather than having fun playing a game
I feel the same thing in Moba's and TTRPG games. "Trying my best" rings hollow when something bad happens and you feel you could have stopped it if you were perfect. but at least your thinking of your own actions and impacts rather than scapegoating. talking to your friends about it and trying more chill ways to enjoy league like buildcraft may help.
I saw some comments where it's only focused on PC Marketing instead of mobile. And most people here don't like MOBA mobile games. I somehow agree with you though
is there a number to that ? played wild rift and mobile legends for a few weeks and ive never seen a real human until i reach gold, i think these games inflate their playerbase with bots
Back In dota1 where not much of pro games were going on, no 3rd party websites, no dota plus and such. when games avg time was about 25 mins.. ppl didn't suffer from losing that much hence climbing rank wasn't that hard .. there was no need to buy accounts, smurf and boost. Infact it wouldn't matter even if it happened. so you could see people enjoying the game while learning it passionately. Once playing with or losing to strong player they'd apprecite them and say something nice.. mostly they'd add them because they're good at the game they love. Now dota developed and grew to be much more complex, dota nerds had to be born along side with toxicity due to the stress resulted from the complicity and competitivity. To be fair, dota with its complexity now days is a true masterpiece, however it's not suitable for everyone. I can't enjoy the game if i don't act like the real nerds im getting matched with on immortal bracket. Normal games are very low quality from all sides. One way ro improve it would be to take off some complexity from it, make the game shorter.. find a balance between normal mode and turbo. But then the game would lose too much of its purpose and value. It mostly will never go back close to what it was.
The reason ive played league for 10 plus years is beacuse i love learning. Pvp games make it possible to always be experiencing new playstyles balance changes make way for new strategies and depending on your level of play absolutely "anything can work" just gotta learn to love the process
Balancing is not the reason people quit in my perspective, I just don't like being called racist slurs every 8/10 games and not having any rewards for playing ranked except bragging rights. People don't care anymore about elo they are making money nowadays. The really competitive people can buy card game decks and the casuals like me are playing games that you don't get punished for not logging in
I just turn the chat off. Let them flame me, I won't hear a damn thing they say. I'm having fun playing how I want to play. I also report the hell out of these toxic people.
I've been saying this for years but MOBAs need to make a super dumbed down version to make learning it easier. Make it super simple, keep it to like two dozen characters (Region lock it by lore or by year that they came out). Make death timers 5 seconds flat. Make xp irrelevant and have everyone level up every minute. There you now have a faster version of a moba, thats easy to grasp, fast paced, and refreshing to older players. Want to make it a bit nostalgic? Change all the characters that you can choose only the OG ones. (Change their stats to the OG stats if you're feeling fancy) Want to make it more balanced? Change the timers and xp timing. Want to make it a bit different? Throw in experimental map options snd objectives to see how player interest is gauged and we adjust the new mechanic from there. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to make an easy to learn game mode similar to this so that everyone is happy.
HOTS is relatively simple, it is still plagued by bad matches because completely casual players keep getting mixed up with people seriously into winning/getting better. Ranked needs to be more separated because of the fact that teamwork is so dependent, and you can't just snap aim shoot like an fps to carry on your own. Probably need to make ranked be accessible only after playing 20-30 games a month or something like that
The closest thing to that would be Adventure Time Battle Party. Unfortunately further updates was cut off by cartoon network I believe. I still miss it 😞
I'm a moba veteran as well, coming from DOTA2, retired after only 200ish hours. Though the MOBA I played for real is Vainglory. Spent thousands of hours there. Now the game's dead, no more running servers, only community server with some dozens of people queueing for a casual match. It really was some of my best moments in gaming and hanging out with my friends. Sadly, an era has come to an end..
I thought it was just MMORPGs that were dying, and now MOBAs too? Wow. I guess the toxicity of the players is largely to blame. There are a lot of severely addicted people playing these games, and after being treated with disrespect so many times the playerbase finally convinced me to go pretty much cold turkey on these games, and it was a major relief.
Also 1 game took 40 mins & u cannot pause. Imagine spending 40 mins of urlife to chat with toxic stranger that u cannot run away for that time & also lose tge game. Thus im playing mobile moba. 1 game about 15mins & i can block the chat so i can play in peace.
Really wish i had seen this video sooner. Former league player here, started end of season 5 and left at some weird point like 3ish years ago? I dont remember. I majned support and peaked plat 1 in EUW I don't know what killed it for me but i remember that once my league playing group all moved to greener pastures, i did too. Im in a new group now, play R6 seige for my fix of team based sillyness, ranked or otherwise, and fighting games for my solo competetive fix. Its funny, i still play games with similar competetive focus, but ive neber been as angry or frustrated since i quit. I actually like learning new strategies, new characters and helping others improve too, league and MOBAs in general dont have the same sense of teaching inexperienced players.
I keep sticking with Heroes of Newerth, even after its server closed down. Now I'm on Project Kongor. Small community but so far majority of the players are okay.
I used to love playing the original DOTA and DOTA 2 but stopped after university because all the fun got sucked out of it. You try to do something you get yelled at, you try to help you get yelled at, you try to get a useful item, you get yelled at and told to erase the game. It was fun to troll people at first but when you just want to play for fun you just doesn't feel the same euphoria anymore.
A big portion of people enter competitive games to vent out on others. Or trolls (sometimes with friends) to feel better with themselves. Enjoying some games without friends became almost imposible at some point. Yeah there were always trolls and obnoxious people, but they were different, more "light hearted" and more spaced out between eachother. Now it feels like everygame, at least one teammate wants you to have an awful week.
Biggest problem with DotA is how the game thinks the only way to keep their playerbase satisfied is by adding complexity to the game. DotA used to be a pretty simple and fun game, but over the years they've added so many layers of complexity (Talents was the first, followed by jungle items, expanded jungle, facets etc.) that its nearly impossible for a new player to get into it. Another major factor is the intuitiveness of the game. This game came out in 2010, based off a mod of Warcraft 3 so most mechanics feel severely outdated but the playerbase is so used to it that it would be criminal to even attempt to change it. In the new heroes since Pango, the devs have been making attempts at adding more fun mechanics to the game that would have been impossible with the earlier technological limitations (much more skill based, intuitive and vector targeting abilities) but I feel like its too little too late. On the other hand, games such as MLBB have done the opposite. They might have horrible game balancing but their focus is entirely on fun mechanics and reducing unnecessary complexity, focusing on the actual fun part of the game (teamfights and stuff). I'm a retired DotA player currently enjoying MLBB a lot primarily because how easy it is to get my friends into it. And the ranked system is so simple as well, you dont feel as bad for losing or as good for winning in it.
we always miss the friends we made along the way, I sometimes get excited when a patch came and share it to Facebook and then an interaction happens on the comment section, but right now only happy or shock reacts, that's OP comment, realizing they stopped playing, I'm thinking to myself am I just clinging to nostalgia?, pandemic made use for eccentric and step back from our MOBA selves and focus on existential worries, my joy is to troll first win second in DotA, most of fun is from streamers like blitz, patch note analysis with BSJM, GorgC, Speed, and tournaments, the fleeting feeling that your childhood is slowly slipping, and we need to put on the big boy pants, and here I am being sentimental while queueing DotA 2 LMAO
These games all have a shelf life until the playerbase stagnates and it's almost 100% sweaty and tryhard. You need to get in on the ground floor, at the beginning or its an uphill battle.
The entire internet is toxic, I mean just open Twitter, X, or whatever you wanna call it these days, and start reading... Since MOBAs are the most popular team based multiplayer games their community is naturally the most toxic of them all. Not that I'm trying to excuse it or anything, the MOBA community is absolutely terrible. However people who stop playing the game because some random person on the internet flamed them for some random stupid reason are simply not doing themselves nor anyone else any favors. People in general need to grow a thicker skin, at least if you want to have any sort of online presence these days... Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons to stop playing MOBAs, I myself played LoL for a lot of years but have quit several years ago and haven't looked back. It's just that 'toxic community' isn't really the best of reasons. Not on its own at least. If you combine toxic community with other reasons than yes, absolutely. However if the only thing stopping you from playing is the toxic community than you really should develop a thicker skin, it will help you in life in general not just playing MOBAs.
Tbh, as an old guy who has been playing DOTA (Dota and Dota 2) for literally more than 15 years, spend thousands of hours in the game. I can safely confess that if I have a better PC and money to spend on a game, I would already stop playing Dota 2 and play other AAA rated games such as RDR, Witcher, GOW, Sleeping dogs etc.
And as another old guy who has a top of the line pc, i can safely tell you that after playing all those triple A games for a while, you will eventually come back to dota 2. Nothing beats a casual pickup game of something you are deeply connected to.
I can tell you when you have a full-time job and have to do chores every day, you are not so interested in these huge slow open world AAA rpgs. When I get home, tired exhausted from work, I have no desire to play those games. I dont play Dota 2 anymore either though, I really enjoy ps2 emulation playing against bots in Timesplitters future perfect or James Bond Nightfire. Amazing games and you always have a blast for an hour or 2.
@@Skumtomten1 I only play turbo or tower defend nowadays, will only play rank if there's literally nothing to do, which is a bit rare. I wish I can play AAA games so I can pause, do chores, and continue back to my gaming.
A Dota 2 veteran here, 3000+ hours! I didnt stop playing the game because of the update of the game, I stop because of Valve too lazy to fix the match making. Back in 2013 - 2015, my early time of playing Dota 2, pretty much 85% of my game were competitive enough, full of players with similar skillset. From 2019 till now, I cant even enjoy a normal match as I got constantly play with newbies whose experience is way to low to understand the role, the hero's strategy, items build and even team fight coordination. Pretty much these days, its impossible to come back from a game where the carry is fed full with 6 items by mid game because of fail team fights or non-stop feeding. Valve did a much better job at match making in the early days where the community are still small and pretty much full of veterans of the DOTA Allstars era. Because of the success of TIs, it attracts more and more people to the point where the community is too big to manage and with the game changes over time, the community's toxicity just went from SSJ1 to SSJ GOD SSJ x Ultra EGO Still I cherish the games and memories I had playing the game during the early days. I felt like I once lived and grew along side the game I got to play and truly enjoyed everyday.
Mobas in PC could be declining maybe due to lack of engagement towards newer generations and just focusing on making cash cows on previous generations but they forget that most of the people that played MOBA before do not have enough time to play anymore...
I've only recently gotten back into MOBAs, and what I'm playing is HoTS. It's an abandoned game ik, but it still has a pretty active player base in quick matched. My experience has been fun and positive, casual, I haven't been scouring the internet for the best build or anything, and the community has only been understanding and positive. At least, I think they are. I don't speak Chinese.
you forgot when devs make the game easier to attract new players, the current playerbase gets pissed because they don't want their game to appeal to "broader audience".
Ii remember playing league of legends in my teens, hating my life, hating myself, not knowing why do i even play this wasting my life getting nothing in return but anxiety and stress. I quit and never came back to playing it and thank god. Turned out of the best decisions in my life.
Runes & rune pages were sick. Enabled some really cool stuff & you also had to pay attention to what the enemy has slotted. The obligatory single crit rune was also a huge fun factor.
Playing dota 1 since clockwerk was introduced. I am glad i have done it, I am glad its over. Gave it all up in 2018, since then got married, two kids, work life balance. Recently got into path of exile, chris wilson took my soul.
Number one issue with nearly every MOBA: coming from behind is exceedingly difficult. A single mistake can lead to 15 minutes of standing under a tower, waiting to die, because that one guy won't vote to surrender. It's just absurdly easy to get tons of momentum and run away with a game, and the design of a MOBA rewards constant pressure, so it's a "rich get richer" situation.
Yea great video! Stepped out of LoL a while ago due to... life, but currently looking at Predecessor, getting back into Mobas a little. Lets see how toxic community gets there, if it's not dying out. Kinda dreaming about grinding with my homie like back in the days, awee that gone I guess
I played Dota 2 for the first time after a Co-worker told me, "Dude its easy and there is a character that plays exactly like Roadhog from Overwatch" I got thrown into Low Priority because my team literally thought I was intentionally feeding.
5 man queues with the boys until 4am not knowing wtf is going on was legit one of the best moments of my early teen years...
Dota really has given us lots
(or taken, depending on how you look at it I guess)
useless but fun years for sure
@@vijaz5559not useless if it's fun
@@H41030v3rki110ny0u useless in terms of gaining real life skills
To be honest i quit league 2015 just got back last year cause my friends started playing again. We just play 5man flex and win or lose it is fun.
Winning = Good
Losing = Bad
Herald = Happy
wtf
Winning doesn't always feel good, but losing is always bad. That's the difference.
losing is bad because it's 30 to 40 min of getting farmed
Herald full of smurfs
Hotels? Trivago.
Alright... Imma go queue
Yeaa... me too
LC is calling me to duel.
finally ranked up to 2k (was 3k before)
aye
Saw this video while waiting for a game...He ain't wrong though.
What's the most mind-boggling about MOBA's is the insane amount of addictiveness they give. It's like fucking crack, or nicotine. I have sat in this exact spot 5,000 fucking times, literally fuming about this damn game, I watch this video, getting pissed off just thinking about it, and halfway through, I queue up a game of ranked dota. Knowing I don't want to, yet I do anyways. I hate it.
same with me its fucking more addictive than drugs. I had a 30 lose streak 2 days straight with fucking toxic team, any normal people would have gone crazy but I was still playing ranked the day after
@@ntsoarakoto7584 I've had a few REALLY bad losing streaks and I actually just mentally snap. The anger it brings me is nuts.
@@LivinProoof the thing is that it's always happening the time you want to try hard, I don"t know about LoL but it's the case for dota. Fortunetely for me, I have friends that play with me sometimes so we don't care if it's win or lose we just play for fun in ranked matches
Quit it, it's bad for your long term health
@@Skumtomten1 Actually very into the new Delta Force game, haven't touched dota in a bit this games sickkkkkk
now sober for 2 years don't know how that happened but glad it did
The thing is you only back to playing the game, you just don't know it yet. Speaking from experience, of course
I had a 4 year long break from Dota but I have returned due to friends. At least I'm not down to the level of playing solo yet.
Damn
*same my streak was 2009-2019 and never playing dotes ever again*
@@theluanvuong5886 stopped at 2018. Tried again just for the sake of nostalgia and just 5 minutes into turbo and im just cant play dota anymore(4k hrs). Im now happpy and contented playing single player and fighting games
You don't get as many new players because of how toxic the community can get against newbies on a game that has an ABSURD learning curve.
When a newbie makes mistakes here & there, they get obliterated by his/her team mates, as though getting slaughtered by the opposing team isn't bad enough already.
They then quit and the vicious cycle continues and all you're left with is a 'veteran' community who are all growing older & dying of old age. By the time these toxic players are all gone, it might be too late for the game to be retained or revived.
It's not just the toxicity. It's just impossible to get into a hobby that other people have been grinding for 10 years.
If you just start the game and play against ai / normal games you dodge most of the toxicity.
If you just hit lvl 30 and bought 20 champs and start playing ranked you will get flamed.
Imagine you started tennis 2 weeks ago and go into a randomised couple tournament with people playing tennis for 10 years. It's not going to work out fine and the problem is not the toxicity
It also doesn't help that the veterans then make the brain dead decision to smurf because of "long q times", murder new players while talking shit, then wonder, "why is the player count dying?"
PS: If they're a pro player, fucking play an aim trainer or something while waiting for an actual opponent. It's not rocket science!
@@MimrsHeadAny well established game suffers from this eventually. Games get more complicated as they go on, and as the average level of player skill increases it starts to get really hard for new players to learn enough of the game to really make meaningful decisions in that game to win.
Any game community that's been around for longer than a decade tends to have serious new player problems, tcgs, mobas, fighting games are the 3 examples I'm most familiar with. I'm a pretty enfranchised yugioh player at this point and even though I think the game is great at a high level, its really just objectively miserable for new players to get into.
I'll never forget I got called mentally ill in my very first game of league, playing against bots. You know, the mode designed specifically for beginners. All because I didn't group mid and just kept hitting my turret
@@shawnjaverywell said
I don't think it's really a matter of losing vs winning. It's about stomps. Getting stomped isn't fun, and stomping the enemy team isn't very fun either. But if you're evenly matched, it can still be a fun game even if you lose. The problem there is the matchmaking is jank af.
I can't agree more with you. I'd always prefer losing a close match instead of stomping and winning.
Switched to fighting games because of this. Stomps don't last 20 mins and even matches are so goddamn thrilling. Also 1v1 so you're not getting bogged down by teammates.
@@nietogaI'd rather stomp
@@darkdescent16 If they just measured it on anything else besides wins it could be great...maybe gold and turret damage...
Yes hidden pool, calve ruined dota when they made it.
No, it’s not friendly at all. When I tried the game, I legit got yelled at for walking around a brush wrong. Never again lol
What did they say? How can you inefficiently walk around a bush?
@@inerlotechnologies4908I was going back to my lane after a teamfight. I got yelled at for walking around a brush instead of walking through, no kidding.
I play mobile legend I promise you it's brutal
@@inerlotechnologies4908 Well, if you walk into bush from a certain angle where enemy can see you before you entering bush, they will know your location. Where if you play aroud fog of war and enter bush, they will never know that you are already in the bush.
Basically similar to how you break vision from moving around the trees in dota 2, where you want to be sneaky as possible before blinking in and surprise enemy
you would literally have to have dota open for 5 years straight to have 45k hours in it
yeah, starting dota is like trying to play basketball first time after seeing couple game. and not realizing what traveling it is. but instead only traveling there is 128167316573621 extra things you need to know to properly play the game, just properly , not good , not well, but play proper without you having to figuratively hitting yourself in the head
ok but the game is like, a decade old
@@Kyong008 play it and you will know it's truly a gem. Decade old you say, yet keeps getting updates and amazes newer crowds. Name another title that's stuck for this long and still hasn't lost it's shine!!!
@nvduk3 wow you completely missed the point lmaoooooooo
Also every moba is absolute trash.
Lol my friend was a addict his pc was on Dota 24/7 he goes to school and he puts it on sleep mode after school he's on it.
I quit because even winning didint feel good anymore.
I bet its not as satisfying :/
This is also modern Yugioh.
Yeah I switched to fighting games and I enjoy losing more in those games then winning in league
Who is that guy with 45k play time? wtf
Bltiz spitting facts
could be a big part menu timr
Asking the right question. That's fucking insane
I have a steam friend with 22k hours
he prolly dont play it that much, he just uses singlebooster to boost playtime hours.
The main problem is MOBAs are such a huge time and effort investment. I played it a lot during university years, but even then it was a huge liability. It interferes so much with normal human functioning that it either becomes your whole personality outside of job, or you just quit. I tried playing dota in turbo mode but even there you have to spend 1,5 hours to play 2 matches and you still have to keep up with itembuilds/abilities/balance patches + stay sharp in terms of execution. And it is very taxing mentally. The complexity is its beauty, but it also requires investment and dedication that are quite unhealthy in my opinion.
The complexity is just insane at this point. It's been over a decade since I first played a League game and I still remember a game when the opposing players just ran away at first sight of my Fiora, who just picks up kills with a mindless point-then-click ultimate spell. Back then it was easy to play GP, you didn't have to contend with champions with a million dashes, skills or mechanics, and being quick enough to side-step meant you're golden. Now there's so many things you have to do. Constant practice has honed me, but old age has just made my hand-eye coordination worse... but hey, you can still win matchups if the opposing side is stupid and doesn't know what your champion does or are too lazy to deward and render useless a trolling Teemo support. A lot of what I do now are just muscle memory, but I understand that the game might be too difficult for new players to get off the AI bot queue.
That's one of the reasons I believe something like Counter Strike is as popular as it is. While yes it's competitive, it doesn't sacrifice simplicity in the process. It also helps that it didn't change much over the years either. So that helps newer players since the game isn't changing every 1 damn seconds! lmao
It's not just DOTA. I believe this applies to all competitive games if you actually want to be good at them.
"Idiots admire complexity while geniuses admire simplicity."
@@SpearraYeah, the hardest thing is to keep up with a game that's constantly changing. I started playing csgo around the same time I started lol and dota but one thing that always discouraged me from mobas was the "bro just play X amount of games and you'll get a feel for it" but I had to always repeat the cycle of sinking 30-40h into a single character just to understand how they currently interact with everyone. Cs on the other hand, I had the basics nailed down and even if my aim is not the best I'm still having fun and not getting a 45 min beating session cuz the enemy team wants to troll us for not being good enough and someone doesn't want to surrender lol
I'd say just don't play ranked. Chasing the number will kill your enjoyment
Agree, I used to rank solo alot but realized its not worth the mental. So i relegated to enjoying it with friends and went to be turbo warriors in Dota lol
This. Play for fun. Play for variety, to play a new hero you don't normally play. To try new silly strats with friends. Turbo is life.
Bro I play fo the crownfall event and I got a free dota plus membership and 15 immortal treasures and mythical sets. Sadly no arcana yet but even with normal there are so many sweaty guardians in normal that thought they were playing ranked like really dumb subhumans that thinks they need to win even if it's normal wtf.
I dont enjoy Turbo games and Unranked games.
This will work if all 10 people really play for fun. Imagine you play unrank but your team act like if he lose it will end of the world.
Dropping league back in 2022 (max rank was d2 in NA and plat 1 in korea), was the best thing I ever did with mobas lol. Fuck competitive games I'm back into rpgs and story games having a lot of fun with no stress.
Yes, I stopped playing dota and then discovered mmorpg's. Never went back since then.
@@NikosM112 welcome to mmos. Been playing wow since 2009
@@user-fv7jd4xj5n I play lost ark. It's fantastic.
Same here, ever since I quit playing competitive multiplayer games and just play singleplayer ones like Hollow knight, Monhun, Portal. I just feel much happier lol
Yeah I quit the MOBA genre in 2017 after getting my PS4 playing single player games. Best decision in my life.
Dota did provide Turbo mode. It was fun for a while but people eventually figured out what the most cancer hero/builds/teams in that mode and spoils the fun entirely.
I have seen it first hand, people are mental in turbo now a days trying to early pick ban op heroes- Silencer, Drow, Sniper, Zeus, Pudge they are most picked..... The first 3 are a menace to deal with due to their insane Dps and ranged attacks and they get core items fast in turbo
@@manoyalIm a Drow main and yeah.... As much as I want to defend that I could not because the moment you get a foothold of the early income the DPS is Massive
earth shaker blink dagger fast is spoiling the fun.
Warlock spammers, shame on you
It is the funniest shit ever itself@@tilting_cat3344
BlitzSpanks: MOBA's Declining
Icefrog: Laughs in Deadlock
Its made by valve tho, we all know that shi is absolute fire only by hearing the company's name
Deadlock still has to prove it has staying power, people are still figuring it out and they are constantly changing it, like the video said, that's when mobas were actually fun.
When it gets figured out and Valva falls back into their customary 1 update every 6 months then it's actual staying power will be tested.
@@somerandom2858 Its really good though. It has an extremely solid ground when it comes to gameplay. If they literally just added more maps to the game as it is now i would love it, cause it really feels like a solid game already.
@@ONEDUMMYBOI valve lost its credibility. cs2 is shit, dota is dying tf2 is dead they have infinite money glitch called steam.
As a DotA (Warcrfat III) player, I quit ranked match and started to play Turbo. It's more fun when everyone is trying to win, and a lot less stressfull when you have to that guy that lose the lane and starts feeding.
Been playing Dota since 2008 and I still enjoy it until now, it is my "go to game" when I wanna to relieve stress and have fun. Tbh, I guess it depends on the person playing whether he's gonna be affected with toxicity of the players. I love Dota but sadly we had to accept that this is the game now.
Lol. Turbo is no better. It’s just over faster… usually.
@@gonzaloalonso4021 turbo is too arcadey
@@adamhero459closest thing to - apem, which is good enough for me
I played since 2003. RIP euls original roc dota.
As someone who has played LoL and Smite, I think a criminally underrated game is Heroes of the Storm, even if it is basically just in maintenance mode.
No items, abilities that evolve, almost no buff camps but instead bigger minions you throw at the enemy, shared team XP, and a quickplay queue system where you pick your character before ever getting into the game meaning you can have matches of 5v5 dps.
It's a simpler game where you have to worry a lot less about dozens of items and item combinations, and more about how you want to play your hero.
And more than the other MOBAs I've played, HotS consistently has the most insane comebacks or clutch victories. What would be assured loss in other games is just your last chance in HotS because snowballing is a lot harder, and you can have one player who only focuses on killing minions and grabbing camps to level up the team and keep you on pace with the enemy even when you're dead.
A lot of MOBAs focus so much on the individual at the core of their gameplay that it can also lead to a lot of players focusing on their KD than actually working as a team. You get people cursing out supports for not having enough kills when those supports have been trying to help those same players get those kills the whole game.
In HotS, jumping the enemy is a group activity, not based on the last kill but everybody high-fiving each other after killing the enemy.
that is why I advocated for the incredible MOBA Heroes of the Storm from Blizzard.
The game was so easy to learn, 15 to 20 minutes a match, no farming, no items, just team fight and objectives.
but MOBA fans are addicted to their games. They invested so much to learn and cosmetics that they are like slaves of their drugs.
they would never change games even for the good.
Hots = most fun moba with the least downsides
Dota 2.. I still love... But I just can't jump on and play a game of it over HOTS
Yea, I think HotS just missed a moment where PC mobas can take off. Very good game otherwise. Still very much playable, too.
@@opticalmoose8091 they also pushed it as a (primarily) competitive game, whereas its focused should have been closer to a casual MOBA, that also happened to have a grassroots competitive scene.. which it did, but then the HGC ate up the HOTS budget completely
Yeah but matchmaking was horrible and blizzard never fixed it.
I quit after, I am not kidding, a 23 games lost in a row.
I am by no means great player, but also not a terrible one. The balance was so off that killed it for me.
So the worst parts of a MOBA without the best parts? Teamfights aren't usually fun because you're relying on your team to play well, which often times just doesn't happen. On the other hand Laning and farming allows you to express your skill to the maximum.
I want to mention something that people don't usually mention but I used to date a person who had little brother syndrome and was addicted to League, he'd play all night trying to get the ranked skins for each season. I eventually broke up with him because he was very stubborn when I asked him to stop playing because it's clearly taking a toll on their mental health. But it made me realize that competitive games such as MOBAs attract people with inferiority complexes since it's their only outlet to make themselves feel worthy which explains why MOBAs are so toxic. This trauma is especially prevalent among Asians with the way Asian households work. And it just so happens my ex was also Asian.
competition attracts people with inferiority complexes? what a dumb take. humans just like to compete. ever since there were the first 2 cavemen they raced to see whos faster or lifted rocks to see whos stronger.
I relate to this so much with my ex! He would project his insecurities onto me as well and mocked my hobbies as if League was the only and superior game to play. He couldn’t stand losing even in a friendly game of just the two of us like Smash Bros💀
Great observation
Declining? not really. Mobile mobas are a thing now: faster queues + faster games = less problematic encounters.
True mobile mobas, like mobile legends are really growing in southeast asia, the skill ceiling is low, everyone can actually play it, shorter game time, portable and fun. It has already become a culture here in Malaysia and Indonesia literally everyone play it
You also can be competitive and climb up the rank but it's just a choice nonetheless 😅
Yea Hok bigger than league
Been on MLBB for 5 years and I'm content with Mythical Honor, cancer gameplay and players never goes away even when I started HoK 3 weeks ago but it's still a fun experience since it's a matter of playing with the hands dealt to you.
I find HoK more fun than Wild Rift which I only played for a week then dropped.
Yep, and you can sit on your toilet while playing it.
Problem with those type of games is the horrible hyper aggressive predatory business model
In my area/country, MOBAs have not declined in popularity at all in fact it's become even more uniquitous expanding to an even wider audience from teens to young professionals from all walks of life. MOBAs are just declining for PC, I think all the NEW blood aren't going to PC in the first place but instead go straight to MOBILE. PC cafes have declined in popularity as well - everyone has a smartphone now. A lot of PC players just don't consider mobile to be 'real' for some reason, but the numbers don't lie.
It's kind of mindblowing to me as you walk into a 7-11 or 24 hr convenience store, see a workplace break-room, on the commute to and from work or school, school or university front gate, apartment complex stairs, parks, everywhere - you see people playing on their phones. Hell companies sponsor leagues for their own workforce.
Mobile MOBAs is something you see in third world countries
Playing any video game, especially a competitive one, on a phone is a miserable experience compared to PC or console
@@delacroixiiYour bait is shit, try again
@@danielwoods3896 I am quite the opposite. I just can't play pc games. I guess it's because I grow up with mobile mobas whenever I try pc mobas they are really boring for me.
Mobile Legends?
You forgot to mention Mobile MOBAs like Mobile Legends, Honour of Kings and Wild Rift. They're faster paced, less strict, more casual and matches only last around 15 to 25 minutes. MOBAs are not declining, in PC maybe, but not in mobile.
Yes. Surprisingly I really like the "Joystick controlls" of mobile legends! Way better than Mouse.
Well I think ppl are either too consumed with 'Mobile gamers are not real gamers' or think that mobile games are just spawns of Satan with lootbox, microtransaction and gacha, tools of gambling. They look at the surface and make that decision.
Before that mindset is killed off with extreme prejudice, the good mobile games will continue to fly under the radar (I don't count Genshin because that can be played in PC/Console)
Imagine playing mobile games in 2024
Mobile mobas aren’t a real thing. They are low skill floor phone games made for broke losers in third world countries. No one ACTUALLY goes out of their way to play a mobile game. They do so because they’re broke, the game is free, and it’s playable on a device they already had to begin with (phone).
@@eruiluvatar6688it really is amazing how this got 45 likes, has to be all third worlders posting these pro-mobile game comments. Mobile “games” aren’t real games
The truth is,
We don't miss the old versions of the game,
We miss the people who we can have fun with in the game...
Even with random people who also just want to have fun like you and me, to goof around and make a mess yet felt satisfied even in defeat because it was fun.
Unfortunately they're gone... What's left are the saddest, loneliest, pathethic try hard pricks. I can't play any game with these kind of people.
As a former dota 2 unranked player, this is correct. I did not give a single turd for balance, I just picked Night Stalker. Why? Cuz he's cool and I feel like a terror of the lanes once the sun goes down. I officially left dota 2 about 5 years ago, playing 5-10 matches every 1 year, but then ultimately uninstalling every time. I think now is it for me. Last time I played was about 1 year ago and I have no urge to go back.
Y'wanna hear a really bad indictment of dota 2 players? The last game of DotA 2 I played was a win... That's right, my final game before quitting was a WIN.
I was playing Night Stalker mid cuz I like getting fast levels and ripping up lanes, and I carried my team to a win. Y'know what it was that made me uninstall for the final time?
My team was flaming the enemy team as we were about to win...
I tried telling them to cool off, and go easy on them, but they just kept screaming at the enemy team.
This is how wretched the DotA 2 community is... Even when I WIN, I'm still disgusted by them.
I didn't feel like standing with my team and raising my fist in the air with them.
I was just thinking "I helped these terrible people get a win..."
Thats it for mobas man. Some wins i feel like wow, i stomped the shit out of some guy whos just came home from his office job and is just trying to have some fun. If i was on the otherside of this one sided beating, it wouldn't be fun either.
Wow my team are literal cruel children who has the emotional intelligence of a 5th grader.
But the same can be true on some losses. Those games which ive put the entire world on my shoulders and carried them. A battle which actually feels like the weight of the world is on your shoulders as you claw back to victory. Your opponents give you their respect as they smash your ancients and it feels as though there's nothing else anyone on your team or theirs could have done better.
On games like that, i sit and feel my heart beat. Thinking about how epic that felt even for a loss.
Sometimes its the same, for a win as well and thats the euphoric feeling we all look for. That feeling of battling the impossible, clawing your way out of the jaws of defeat. Coming back from an impossible lane and showing them why they were right about trying to put me down when they had a chance.
THAT is the meaning of MOBAS like dota and lol.
But truthfully, those exhilarating, fleeting moments are never enough to outweigh the toxic nature of dota and lol.
It’s a game bro everyone is having fun and curb stomping is funni
i like u
This is why when I report people in a match, my own team has no immunity or bias. When they do this crab mentality at the losing team, I usually humiliate them in chat then report them.
Based
Having a full party to play deadlock with reignited this entire love for mobas again.
I get your point about winning and losing, but that literally applies to every multiplayer game in existence. It’s the reason why high level COD players cry about SBMM because they can’t dumpster noobs, it’s why sports games have to have separate lobbies for all the pay to win bullshit custom teams, it’s why fighting games never ever grow because it’s always the same people that have played that shit longer than MOBAs have been around. All multiplayer games have that issue.
I think one major issue is just a common one in the industry as a whole. Lack of new/innovative ideas. MOBAs are still dota/league, 12 year and 15 year old games. Smite has had success (we will see how Smite 2 does) but even that games a decade old at this point. A lot of major genres are losing players just because developers haven’t come up with new ideas in a decade. Hell even battle royals are considered “new” still, but that’s also a decade old at this point.
lmao there are only so much "new" ideas to be discovered. if you have alr exhausted the pile of ideas and any possible variations, you are done, as simple as that.
There's a lack of new/innovative ideas because any new idea gets added into the existing 10 year old games instead of building new games that could better utilize those new mechanics.
Fighting games don’t grow moreso due to the lack of games with a proper online infrastructure and lack of content besides 1v1 fighting to get the initial interest of more casuals.
When it comes to better players, that’s an issue in every game. The bigger issue is the lack of in-depth tutorials IN GAME for casuals to learn easier. No normal person wants to look up a million guides just to play a character correctly, nor should they have to. I say this as a fighting game player.
@@aarong8099Fighting games don't grow because casuals don't like getting steam rolled.
Tutorials are just part of the reason, but imo the biggest hurdle is learning neutral. You can't have an in-game tutorial that goes in depth, and you basically have to play online to learn.
Unlike MOBAs where you can blame your teammates, you can't do that with fighting games.
It's a shame that games that tried to break the mold and do something different in the MOBA space all got shut down because they weren't League killers. Dead Island Epidemic, Heroes of the Storm, Dawngate. Two of those games never made it out of beta/early access before being shut down despite actually being pretty fun and unique. HotS was increasingly mishandled by Blizzard until they decided to just shut it down in favour of their precious cash cow baby (a very close situation to how Epic Games handled the original game mode in Fortnite). There were once a lot of DC and Marvel based MOBAs in production too, but none of those saw full release either I believe.
It would be nice to see new MOBAs being made again, as the genre surely has something more left to explore, and new games with much smaller rosters could definitely attract both new and old players who are put off by the bloat found in League and DOTA 2. Hell I'd take a remake of Demigod at this point, and that only has a roster of like 10 characters.
In DotA(Warcraft3 Mod) days.There is no ranking system. People are just having fun whether they win or lose. If other team is too strong, just switch the strong guy to the weaker team, then play the next match. Now people just grind for toxic ranking system to meet more toxic people, but not fun.
Nostalgia blinds so many people from fun: this doesn't apply only to DotA 2 but to other games too. People need to understand that when people evolve, so do the masses' taste and aesthetics; a game evolving is trying to match with current trends and fads to stay relevant and not be complacent which may result into a game being boring for- God knows how long.
I admire the changes happening in different games. Especially with DotA's current events, you can see the hardwork these developers put into it along with the artists and writers of the team. Though I can't say the same for everyone, newer content is fresh and alternative; and I like it.
Nah while I agree that the community was way less competitive and toxic the further back you go, Dota in particular has just been getting destroyed slowly every patch for the past like 8 years. It gets more bloated and uninteresting with every patch Valve shits out. Nostalgia is just a cheap bait. Not everything improves as time goes on.
Sure, you can pick out some good changes like the better UI or that everyone has their own courier, but they are in the minority. I can't even think up any positive changes other than those two to be honest with you.
@@83RhalataShera As a dota player since beta who took a 5 year break I disagree completely. I think the map feels way better now, top jungle, dual rosh and portals were all great additions, as well as neutral item drops, as it adds more emphasis on jungling, timing and build variety (and the feeling of sometimes getting just the loot u need.)
Moreover, playing support feels so much better now, with gold and EP reward for dewarding, free observer wards, money share from jungled stacks etc etc.
Aside from a sense of nostalgia, I don't miss the days of 1 courrier for team and feeling like beggar when playing support. I feel also there is actually way less trolling and toxicity then when I played (though it always happens with MOBAs). Back in the day "mid or feed" was so common, or people feeding the courier omg ...
The changes to dota have been overall very good
Bruh Dota is objectively at its peak balance & experience-wise. It's never been a better game than it is right now. Kids (at least the ones that spend their time gaming) are just zombies nowadays.
When you say "when people evolve" what you actually mean is "when millions of teenagers get their dopamine receptors fried by early exposure to addictive mechanics through their phones"
The New heroes from Valve ruined the game for me. The look like trash and were so incredibly annoying to play against. Extreme mobility combined with tons of stuns/CC. The OG heroes were simply more fun to play against.
Hats also ruined the look of the game. Look at TI 1-3 replays and compare it to now. The game looked so good and clean back then. Now it's a complete mess and I can't even tell whats going on with all the messy particle effects and skins.
I do agree that they made support much more fun to play over the years though.
The problem with mobas is the insane time commitment. It's common for people to say that "You'll suck for the first 1000 hours". And you have to do a double take that you are expected to be terrible after 1000 hours. But in a moba 1000 hours isn't even that much which is mind boggling.
Mobas require too much of a time commitment and whenever i have friends ask about league i always tell them not to play it even though i play it.
This latest patch has probably been some of the most fun I've had in a long time. Why? Turbo + Clownfall. The variety of grinding CrownFall and having to essentially play random draft because I need to get certain tokens to move through the map. I also never play solo, it's always with mates and having a laugh in the process.
I absolutely love league.
But I never play the regular 5v5 stuff. I stick to Aram and Arena.
I DARED to try a new champion in normals recently, (the audacity, I know) and for all the four games I played I got pinged constantly for stepping on teemo shrooms (I know, sorry I should've avoided the invisible things, my bad), for not one shotting enemies after getting 2 kills as an adc when the support stole all my kills afterwards, (sorry, I should've been a god at last hitting with a champion I never played, my bad), and for being generally worse than the 200k mastery points enemy botlane, (sorry I should've played 500 games against bots before DARING to play a normal game, my bad). This is why I don't play often, every single game there's trolls, afks, and toxic people, and at that point winning feels awful because you let those awful people on your team win instead of making their life as horrible as they made yours. This is why people int, this is why people ff, NEVER PLAY LEAGUE OF LEGENDS
The easiest MOBA to get into is Smite because it has a mode of Arena where it's a lot more casual and it allows you to learn the abilities of each character
Smite in concept is very cool, but the gods they release feel inconsistent and random. Damn near every other god is from a new mythos so now we have 5 pantheons with 1-2 gods in them.
This is another reason why Mobile Mobas are becoming more popular. Playing a rank match in dota or LOL you'll have to spend 40-50 mins trying to win one rank match with toxic team mates .
An average rank match in mobile mobas are like 15-20 mins so even if you get stuck with toxic team you won't have to spend an hour with them ranting.
No , man. It's just the endless amount of Chinese, indians , Pakistani or any other kind of "player" that cannot afford a pc. It's just a bubble.
mobile gaming will never surpass pc mobas, stats always prove it. also skill expression in mobile games is practically zero.
The biggest problem with mobas is matchmaking. One bad teammate can make a game unwinnable, and they specifically give you bad teammates to make you play more. If you can find a good 5 stack mobas are actually the most fun competitive genre.
This is true to any online game. The first time is the most fun and enjoyable part. After a year or two, it will become too competitive that it’s no longer fun.
You forgot one important thing, the improvement in smartphones gives us mobile mobas with shorter match length and more casual.. im a former dota2 player but the convenience of mobile moba is much better than spending time playing an hour length game of dota... I know many dota1 veterans from 2000s that doesnt play dota2 but now plays mlbb ... In china , hok is their biggest moba. Moba never declines, it actually got more players, just not in pc but mostly in smart phones
Amen. I'm very much in the same boat. I found MOBAs so fascinating and really grew to appreciate the genre. But holy cow, I can not invest my time in a game where a single match can easily take you and hour of just walking around and grinding and each match only giving you a miniscule amount of progression.
The bite sized approach of the mobile counterparts has streamlined the whole process and makes the whole experience less depressing and allows and makes trial and error easier.
I’ve played ml for three years and it’s rlly beginner friendly for the most part. Most heroes only have 3 skills+regen skill+ one choosable skill (ofc there are exceptions) The ranking system is rlly friendly, getting to mythic rank, even mythic honour is rlly easy even if you just play 1 game every 1 or 2 days. Sure, the community has been somewhat toxic, but mlbb has doubled down on its chat moderation that now blocks most of the hate.
What is the best mobile phone Moba for a Dota player to try?
@@m136dalie so far no mobile moba is near dota experience... Mlbb is fast paced and short queue time. Hok is another one (in my opinion) better moba than mlbb but it has less players
@@aljongreat1900 Thanks I'll give it a try
I started playing DotA 2 in 2021, with absolutely no knowledge of the game, the characters, or MOBAs in general. I have 3.6k hours and play strictly turbo. It's not always fun, but it's less annoying than being stuck in a regular match for too long. Learning all the spells for all the characters was the hardest part, but the new player feature at least teaches you the basics on what lanes mean and how the game works. It's learning all the other tricks like creep blocking, pulling, blocking camps, ward placement that people get upset over in the beginning. But turbo is chill, people play what they want and build how they want without /too/ much pushback. And with the toxicity report system it's easy to avoid the people that complain about other people's builds/griefers/toxic chat - most reports go through if they're actually being toxic.
It's the players, not the genre.
People love attempting to heal their own complexities by shaming others.
I stopped playing DotA because most of my friend / party are gone missing
They stop playin the game, either they got a life or got hooked by another game otherwise it's the same thing
It's lonely to play the game now, there's no one to brag about how good i am, or when sometimes made funny shit and want them to see it
Man i miss the good ol time, not the game but the friend we made a long the way is the best feeling ever
Hop in to internet cafe and play with bunch of random people there, get know to each other and slowly become friend. It's great
That's why rn i love to be Vtuber or streamer cause i can meet new friend
But well idk if i'm ready to lose them again
Fck life la, chibai
Not really a MOBA player, but this same thing seems to happen to pretty much any hyper competitive genre. Looks at how fighting games have declined over the last 20+ years as a prime example.
I’m not sure why ppl don’t want to review other MOBA options such wild rift, HOK, mobile legends, etc. Those titles are designed to be more newbie friendly, with mobile legends heroes are keep being revamped to be even easier and easier. Those are where your newbies are coming to. Almost nobody have the time for 1 hour match anymore. That’s too long time commitment, esp if you already know halfway thru the match that your team is gonna lose.
This kinds of video target market is pc gamer or english based country. So none of those guys want chineese rip off get mentions cause that gonna make viewer left video early. Nobody on pc market thoughts moba on phone is great idea, nobody even playing it. So why mentions something nobody playing it in english based country?
bias and stereotype, mobile games bad, china rip off games, america numbah one
Because a PC player isn't gonna just hop to mobile phones. Gaming on each is an entirely different experience.
I would call it the moba paradox. mobas were the perfect game for teens and young adults back then, and thus became an absolute phenomenon. but that generation got older, got a life, and the insane time consumption of the genre became a liability instead of a selling point. same thing with complexity. when an entire generation is aboard learning together, it was spectacular. but the time passed, we got older, and mobas did only get more complex since then, which became an alienating factor for new players. hardcore players are ever hungry for fundamental changes, but those changes only makes the game ever progressively inaccessible for new audiences. who to cater for? I stopped playing dota when I realized that a week playing ranked somewhat consistently would get you at max some 50 matches. in the context of mobas, that's nothing. in the context of my life, that's a fcking week. add on top of that the fact that it is a team game, and I don't have a team myself, so I have to play with random people. consider also that every match is played against another team of another 5 people, in this insanely intricate game, that takes some 40 minutes per match. you get a gut feeling of what went wrong, what went right, and if someone or something were most responsible for the win/loss. but it's incredibly hard to know for sure, and if you want to study the match to discover, you would still probably won't be able to understand 100% of what happened, and it would take another fcking 40 minutes of your life. that's almost half a movie. I mean, why would I do that if I'm not even having fun??????????????????? why would I spend those countless hours on a game in which I can barely gauge if I'm getting better or worse, in which I need months to get substantial results (if I'm lucky...) while wasting a big chunk of my life and not even having a good time?????? it made sense when I was younger, my friends played and I had a lot of free time. I played ranked alone to scratch my itch of playing when they were offline, when I ranked up I would tease them, and when they were online I would train my ranked characters or just goof with them. it took a LOT of my time, but it was a blast. now almost none of them plays this sh1t anymore. it became just simply waste of time. now I just play bullet chess, and tekken. fast matches, all individual, so it's easier to interpret and learn, and it all depends solely on me. if I want to improve, it doesn't takes hundreds of hours. and if I don't care to improve, matches are fast, and the game is intense and captivating all the way through (instead of having peaks of action like mobas have). and it's pretty probable that when riot's FG comes out, team play will become a standard feature on these games (it has been strongly rumoured that tekken will get 2v2 tag play, if I understood it correctly). honestly, I think that mobas are meant to be more and more just this insane hardcore niche. it won't d1e, and I think it will remain popular probably forever. but I think that the trend is to become less and less popular over the years. I can only see myself going back to dota if they made a standard mode with smaller, procedurally generated maps for just 3v3. better yet if they made items available to you in the shop to be randomly chosen from a limited pool set by you beforehand, like a "deck". and if games had turbo pacing. the icing on the cake would be if either side could only pick heroes from their alignment, dire could only pick dire heroes and radiant... radiant. it would be much wilder experience, and less appealing to competitive play, as it would be very unbalanced and RNG based. but instead of demanding you to have a phd level knowledge of the game, a smaller pool of heroes forced to improvise builds every game and smaller teams would downsize A LOT of the complexity. I mean, it makes sense in my head at least 😅
3:30 my first time playing dota was some guy teaching me lycan as thanks for downloading the latest version of the map off me. Afterwards I went back to playing LoaP and unranked FFA matches.
Later i got into league and had to teach myself the game and genre because my friends only taught me the very basics. Honestly this genre is the only one that rewards player experience in the way it does, i think that's why its appealing.
I think MOBAs and Fighting games have that in common. Knowledge Checks are the best types of rewards since you when you beat someone who doesn't know what you did, it felt good as hell.
@@jrbudoybudoy I can agree with that, but it also feels good to learn. A friend and I used to play Blazblue and he had a Taokaka combo that had a mid-air reset grab. Finally he trained me to reactively grab, and I broke it only to discover he had ANOTHER RESET IN CASE I BROKE IT.
Toxicity.
Remember friends...your never the bad player. Everyone else is. Now imagine that everyone on both sides has this mindset.
Add in a ungodly amount of caffeine (or drug of your choice).....and there you go.
the problem is that , there i no fix for it cause MOBA games are based on competition and competetive matches so if you make it more casual and fun , it hurts the competetive scene an im not only talking about the pro scene , every rank literally every rank higher than archon is fully sweaty and people are grinding to get into a better rank , the fun section can be smth that arcade does and the only fix is just balanced patchs or new contents like new agh , new obj or new hero thats it! not getting new players is not smth new in MOBA games cause most of people wanna have fun in games and MOBA is not a fun genre, wcyd man its MOBA
I think beyond that the lack of diversity and creativity in the game makes it shit. Like the video was saying back in the day everyone was experimenting with builds and comps way more. Now it seems new off meta builds are removed from the game when discovered or just so unviable that they aren't fun. I remember back in the day league felt like you could really explore different ways of playing. Now every game is the same. Jungle pathing, competing for scuttle like there isn't much diversity in what you can do same with laning, phase. I think the competitiveness has something to do with that but also the devs for punishing creative off meta decisions rather than rewarding it.
I remember this ranked match I had on mobile that went like this based on my memory (this was in 2017):
First minute - Enemy team was already yapping about how boring we were for our comp (1 tank, 1 mage, 1 jungle carry, 1 ADC, 1 support; I was the tank with engage skills)
Second minute - seems like a normal lane phase but only the enemy ADC and mid were visible, ADC leaves after 1-2 waves
Third minute - our Jungle detects a 5-man gank on mid and pings us to gather
Fourth minute - enemy team surrenders after getting wiped out and we lose 0 members
It's always awesome putting these types of players in their places - the trash.
I genuinely think mobas are very fun, complex experiences with rich characters, aesthetics, lore and strategy gameplay that are absolutely fine and the ONLY problem is that, because of how extremely competitive they have grown to be, flaws that would be completely meaningless become apparent and problematic. If everybody just suddenly stopped chasing a number playing ranked and just focused on playing the games themselves while not caring for ranks, every single moba comunity would suddenly become the least toxic possible. We already compete enough in jobs, tastes for art, college degrees and paychecks. We don't need to compete in our passions. Just play to win and stop when you're tired and stop chasing an arbitrary number on an online leaderboard
bro, the lack of sweats made wild rift dead and the reason why mlbb is better
@@reformierende_personI reached master on Wild Rift on season 1 or some other early season and I can't even get passed emerald as for now in 2024, so it's definitely more competitive now with more champions or I just have a skill issue lol.
@@shiningfilmzph if u came back a few seasons ago that made u emerald, its ur teammate's fault, otherwise its urs xD
@@reformierende_person It's definitely a skill issue on my part XD
You're making way too much common sense for gaming addicts to become self-aware of that or even admit that to themselves.
I had to learn for myself that theres a difference between a game being addicting and rewarding me with a little dopamine here and there to keep me chasing, and a game being actually fun to play. Like. The whole time. Im trying to refocus on the latter. I want to have fun losing too. I dont want to sink any more of my life into hours of frustration chasing a brief win. I dont want to be angry that Im not winning. I want to be like "oh well, it was exciting anyway".
Because most MOBA players react exactly like Tyler1 does when things don't go their way. I work in retail; I don't need adult infants swearing at me and/or other players over inconsequential circumstances every 30 seconds when I'm just there to have fun after my 8-hour day that was very likely peppered with verbal abuse from strangers.
Solo q imo just like gambling on better teammate or worst opp. That's why it's kinda addictive. There are so much uncertainty that is beyond our control. To add insult to injury, the community is mostly really not newbie-friendly. Your teammate expect you to know what you do, as if you have almost no room to explore or learn. The only way to enjoy the game is by playing with friends (ideally 5 stack team). But then you'll face a more difficult opp as they also got a 5-stack team, raising the probability for your team to lose.
Moba is just my favorite genre(if that's the right term). I just love how u need to learn a lot of stuff like itemization, skill builds, farming patterns, power spikes, the lore is entertaining too. That being said, it's proof that u need to be either passionate, obsessed, or addicted to the game before you really get the most out of it.
I've been playing dota since WC3, and now am playing dota2. Been a league player too, as well as the rip-off, Mobile Legends. I've been stuck at crusader for a long time in dota2 coz i dont have the consistency to play the game all the time and get really good with it. But lately i tried spamming turbo games just for the love and to have fun by trying out different heroes. It was actually fun, no pressure on winning coz you're basically trying out new heroes for yourself or you're just passing time. After 2 weeks of turbo games, i had enough and went back to ranked. I actually improved and saw the game from a different perspective.
Watch Tyler1's rage. Understand that no matter how good you are or what your rank is, this is how the game is going to make you feel. When you lose, you'll feel terrible. When you win, you'll feel terrible. Even at the highest rank in the game people will troll you, give up, afk, leave the game, and lose on purpose out of spite. It's not worth it.
4:30 One word: N, E, R, F, Nerfs: the same type of change that created these problems below:
1. Making already unfun gameplay more unfun by how outdated these nerfed characters are in comparison to current meta
2. Nerfed characters being unplayable
3. Unable to carry the toxic teammates over the picked character they already nerfed to the ground
4. Making variety of large roster pointless let alone meaningless (that's why you always stuck having smaller base roster in modern games)
5. Making meta even worse by having C- tiers worth of unplayable nerfed characters
6. All of the first 5 problem unsolved (mostly both 3 and 5) made this problem at 6:18 impossible to be solved in the first place
"NERF" alone is why Multiplayer gaming is always dying
Edit: *Almost forgot to add this timestamp above
Which is ironic, because a Big problem people have with LoL Is damage creep, everyone exploding in less than a second due to an excess of damage. It was literally buffing too much the problem.
Watching this as someone with a couple thousand hours in Overwatch, who’s only played DOTA for like 6 hours, League for like 3-4 matches, but who has also just put 74 hours into Deadlock in the 13 days of having access:
😳😅
To be honest losing is not that bad, there are plenty of moments where i didn't win and it didn't felt bad, especially when the battle is very decisive and both teams are struggling to find advantage, also fun when you are losing badly but your team doesn't take it seriously, the main problem is that people don't have pacience anymore and want to grind the game like crazy people. Losing would be way less unfun if there wasn't so much saltyness and rage, its like every people wants to end the game in 20:00 minutes everytime and if you commit a single error you are the anti-christ and deserve the death penalty, this necessity to optimize your matches is so unfun that everyone is trying to get out to either grind faster or to end the game before it gets toxic, i wish people were less angry😔
It depends what character you are playing. If you play a mage like vel'koz than can sit behind and throw spells regardless of game state is not as bad as playing an assasin like rengar against a fed tanky coordinated team where you can do absolutely nothing but go in and die. That is why azzap has the "never ff" mentality because he plays fucking vel'koz
@@boldisordorin9010 true, funnily enough most toxic people that i found on my dota matches are generally more safe heroes like zeus and sniper
New player to league. I do not play it alone, only with friends
I have never had this feeling of gut wrenching guilt for not being good at a game i have never played before. Like my friends arent toxic but I feel more like im letting them down rather than having fun playing a game
I feel the same thing in Moba's and TTRPG games. "Trying my best" rings hollow when something bad happens and you feel you could have stopped it if you were perfect. but at least your thinking of your own actions and impacts rather than scapegoating. talking to your friends about it and trying more chill ways to enjoy league like buildcraft may help.
@@theflyingtoaster7414 Im sticking to ARAM 👍
"MOBAs - A Declining Genre"
Doesn't mention Mobile MOBAs that are anything BUT Declining.
Mobile MOBAs are for people without talent
We piss on mobile moba though. We don't care about you!
I saw some comments where it's only focused on PC Marketing instead of mobile. And most people here don't like MOBA mobile games. I somehow agree with you though
is there a number to that ?
played wild rift and mobile legends for a few weeks and ive never seen a real human until i reach gold,
i think these games inflate their playerbase with bots
@@arzentvmI think that's a region specific problem. As in Sea you can even find matches for dead games like vainglory community edition.
Back In dota1 where not much of pro games were going on, no 3rd party websites, no dota plus and such. when games avg time was about 25 mins.. ppl didn't suffer from losing that much hence climbing rank wasn't that hard .. there was no need to buy accounts, smurf and boost. Infact it wouldn't matter even if it happened. so you could see people enjoying the game while learning it passionately. Once playing with or losing to strong player they'd apprecite them and say something nice.. mostly they'd add them because they're good at the game they love. Now dota developed and grew to be much more complex, dota nerds had to be born along side with toxicity due to the stress resulted from the complicity and competitivity. To be fair, dota with its complexity now days is a true masterpiece, however it's not suitable for everyone. I can't enjoy the game if i don't act like the real nerds im getting matched with on immortal bracket. Normal games are very low quality from all sides. One way ro improve it would be to take off some complexity from it, make the game shorter.. find a balance between normal mode and turbo. But then the game would lose too much of its purpose and value. It mostly will never go back close to what it was.
Current internet culture told people to care about prestige, it's not just the moba or game but everything in general
@@CharDhue You're right
there was no rank in dota 1(Garena)
Regarding league of legends, Riot just goes out of their way to make the game suck as much as possible. The worst part being autofill.
The reason ive played league for 10 plus years is beacuse i love learning. Pvp games make it possible to always be experiencing new playstyles balance changes make way for new strategies and depending on your level of play absolutely "anything can work" just gotta learn to love the process
"moba genre" and then it's only league and dota
Balancing is not the reason people quit in my perspective, I just don't like being called racist slurs every 8/10 games and not having any rewards for playing ranked except bragging rights. People don't care anymore about elo they are making money nowadays. The really competitive people can buy card game decks and the casuals like me are playing games that you don't get punished for not logging in
I just turn the chat off. Let them flame me, I won't hear a damn thing they say. I'm having fun playing how I want to play.
I also report the hell out of these toxic people.
I've been saying this for years but MOBAs need to make a super dumbed down version to make learning it easier.
Make it super simple, keep it to like two dozen characters (Region lock it by lore or by year that they came out).
Make death timers 5 seconds flat.
Make xp irrelevant and have everyone level up every minute.
There you now have a faster version of a moba, thats easy to grasp, fast paced, and refreshing to older players.
Want to make it a bit nostalgic? Change all the characters that you can choose only the OG ones. (Change their stats to the OG stats if you're feeling fancy)
Want to make it more balanced? Change the timers and xp timing.
Want to make it a bit different? Throw in experimental map options snd objectives to see how player interest is gauged and we adjust the new mechanic from there.
I don't understand why you wouldn't want to make an easy to learn game mode similar to this so that everyone is happy.
HOTS is relatively simple, it is still plagued by bad matches because completely casual players keep getting mixed up with people seriously into winning/getting better.
Ranked needs to be more separated because of the fact that teamwork is so dependent, and you can't just snap aim shoot like an fps to carry on your own. Probably need to make ranked be accessible only after playing 20-30 games a month or something like that
The closest thing to that would be Adventure Time Battle Party. Unfortunately further updates was cut off by cartoon network I believe. I still miss it 😞
the children yearn for battlerite
Just play HOTS in that case... Most fun of all of the mobas tbh.. and the easiest to jump in to, play, and FEEL like you're helping the team
I'm a moba veteran as well, coming from DOTA2, retired after only 200ish hours. Though the MOBA I played for real is Vainglory. Spent thousands of hours there. Now the game's dead, no more running servers, only community server with some dozens of people queueing for a casual match. It really was some of my best moments in gaming and hanging out with my friends. Sadly, an era has come to an end..
Your favourite moba dying is a fate i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Thank you for your service, soldier.
I thought it was just MMORPGs that were dying, and now MOBAs too? Wow. I guess the toxicity of the players is largely to blame. There are a lot of severely addicted people playing these games, and after being treated with disrespect so many times the playerbase finally convinced me to go pretty much cold turkey on these games, and it was a major relief.
My biggest problem with MMOs is that companies just stopped making them. Pretty much every half decent MMO is 10-20 years old by now.
Same. Screw these people. They can play with their own kind. I'm better than that.
8,000 hours in-should've just invested in electric cars and a cabinet seat. At least I'd be going places.
Also 1 game took 40 mins & u cannot pause. Imagine spending 40 mins of urlife to chat with toxic stranger that u cannot run away for that time & also lose tge game. Thus im playing mobile moba. 1 game about 15mins & i can block the chat so i can play in peace.
Omg you made me have nightmares again with the "Dota 2 one courier war era", games were so unnecessarily complicated back in the days
9:10 facts man, facts
Really wish i had seen this video sooner. Former league player here, started end of season 5 and left at some weird point like 3ish years ago? I dont remember. I majned support and peaked plat 1 in EUW I don't know what killed it for me but i remember that once my league playing group all moved to greener pastures, i did too.
Im in a new group now, play R6 seige for my fix of team based sillyness, ranked or otherwise, and fighting games for my solo competetive fix. Its funny, i still play games with similar competetive focus, but ive neber been as angry or frustrated since i quit. I actually like learning new strategies, new characters and helping others improve too, league and MOBAs in general dont have the same sense of teaching inexperienced players.
I keep sticking with Heroes of Newerth, even after its server closed down. Now I'm on Project Kongor. Small community but so far majority of the players are okay.
I used to love playing the original DOTA and DOTA 2 but stopped after university because all the fun got sucked out of it. You try to do something you get yelled at, you try to help you get yelled at, you try to get a useful item, you get yelled at and told to erase the game. It was fun to troll people at first but when you just want to play for fun you just doesn't feel the same euphoria anymore.
A big portion of people enter competitive games to vent out on others. Or trolls (sometimes with friends) to feel better with themselves. Enjoying some games without friends became almost imposible at some point. Yeah there were always trolls and obnoxious people, but they were different, more "light hearted" and more spaced out between eachother. Now it feels like everygame, at least one teammate wants you to have an awful week.
Biggest problem with DotA is how the game thinks the only way to keep their playerbase satisfied is by adding complexity to the game. DotA used to be a pretty simple and fun game, but over the years they've added so many layers of complexity (Talents was the first, followed by jungle items, expanded jungle, facets etc.) that its nearly impossible for a new player to get into it. Another major factor is the intuitiveness of the game. This game came out in 2010, based off a mod of Warcraft 3 so most mechanics feel severely outdated but the playerbase is so used to it that it would be criminal to even attempt to change it. In the new heroes since Pango, the devs have been making attempts at adding more fun mechanics to the game that would have been impossible with the earlier technological limitations (much more skill based, intuitive and vector targeting abilities) but I feel like its too little too late.
On the other hand, games such as MLBB have done the opposite. They might have horrible game balancing but their focus is entirely on fun mechanics and reducing unnecessary complexity, focusing on the actual fun part of the game (teamfights and stuff). I'm a retired DotA player currently enjoying MLBB a lot primarily because how easy it is to get my friends into it. And the ranked system is so simple as well, you dont feel as bad for losing or as good for winning in it.
we always miss the friends we made along the way, I sometimes get excited when a patch came and share it to Facebook and then an interaction happens on the comment section, but right now only happy or shock reacts, that's OP comment, realizing they stopped playing, I'm thinking to myself am I just clinging to nostalgia?, pandemic made use for eccentric and step back from our MOBA selves and focus on existential worries, my joy is to troll first win second in DotA, most of fun is from streamers like blitz, patch note analysis with BSJM, GorgC, Speed, and tournaments, the fleeting feeling that your childhood is slowly slipping, and we need to put on the big boy pants, and here I am being sentimental while queueing DotA 2 LMAO
9:21 what clip is this from???
Haven't played dota for 2months... I got to see sunlight and be mentally happier
All competitive games are more fun in the beginning… the nature of competition is that it gets more frustrating the better the player base gets.
These games all have a shelf life until the playerbase stagnates and it's almost 100% sweaty and tryhard. You need to get in on the ground floor, at the beginning or its an uphill battle.
The entire internet is toxic, I mean just open Twitter, X, or whatever you wanna call it these days, and start reading... Since MOBAs are the most popular team based multiplayer games their community is naturally the most toxic of them all. Not that I'm trying to excuse it or anything, the MOBA community is absolutely terrible. However people who stop playing the game because some random person on the internet flamed them for some random stupid reason are simply not doing themselves nor anyone else any favors. People in general need to grow a thicker skin, at least if you want to have any sort of online presence these days...
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons to stop playing MOBAs, I myself played LoL for a lot of years but have quit several years ago and haven't looked back. It's just that 'toxic community' isn't really the best of reasons. Not on its own at least. If you combine toxic community with other reasons than yes, absolutely. However if the only thing stopping you from playing is the toxic community than you really should develop a thicker skin, it will help you in life in general not just playing MOBAs.
Tbh, as an old guy who has been playing DOTA (Dota and Dota 2) for literally more than 15 years, spend thousands of hours in the game. I can safely confess that if I have a better PC and money to spend on a game, I would already stop playing Dota 2 and play other AAA rated games such as RDR, Witcher, GOW, Sleeping dogs etc.
And as another old guy who has a top of the line pc, i can safely tell you that after playing all those triple A games for a while, you will eventually come back to dota 2. Nothing beats a casual pickup game of something you are deeply connected to.
you may think so but it might not necessarily be the case, I also think I'd play other game but after upgrading pc I still mostly play dota
I can tell you when you have a full-time job and have to do chores every day, you are not so interested in these huge slow open world AAA rpgs. When I get home, tired exhausted from work, I have no desire to play those games. I dont play Dota 2 anymore either though, I really enjoy ps2 emulation playing against bots in Timesplitters future perfect or James Bond Nightfire. Amazing games and you always have a blast for an hour or 2.
@@Skumtomten1 I only play turbo or tower defend nowadays, will only play rank if there's literally nothing to do, which is a bit rare. I wish I can play AAA games so I can pause, do chores, and continue back to my gaming.
Tbh eternal return taught me winning and losing isnt everything as long as it feel like the team gave it all.
A Dota 2 veteran here, 3000+ hours! I didnt stop playing the game because of the update of the game, I stop because of Valve too lazy to fix the match making. Back in 2013 - 2015, my early time of playing Dota 2, pretty much 85% of my game were competitive enough, full of players with similar skillset. From 2019 till now, I cant even enjoy a normal match as I got constantly play with newbies whose experience is way to low to understand the role, the hero's strategy, items build and even team fight coordination. Pretty much these days, its impossible to come back from a game where the carry is fed full with 6 items by mid game because of fail team fights or non-stop feeding.
Valve did a much better job at match making in the early days where the community are still small and pretty much full of veterans of the DOTA Allstars era. Because of the success of TIs, it attracts more and more people to the point where the community is too big to manage and with the game changes over time, the community's toxicity just went from SSJ1 to SSJ GOD SSJ x Ultra EGO
Still I cherish the games and memories I had playing the game during the early days. I felt like I once lived and grew along side the game I got to play and truly enjoyed everyday.
Idk about other places but here in Brazil the promotional quote of L.O.L is "Play it your way"... I realized very soon that was a f*ng lie.
and here i am watching this after seeing thousands of moba shooters demo gameplay on youtube...
Mobas in PC could be declining maybe due to lack of engagement towards newer generations and just focusing on making cash cows on previous generations but they forget that most of the people that played MOBA before do not have enough time to play anymore...
I've only recently gotten back into MOBAs, and what I'm playing is HoTS. It's an abandoned game ik, but it still has a pretty active player base in quick matched. My experience has been fun and positive, casual, I haven't been scouring the internet for the best build or anything, and the community has only been understanding and positive.
At least, I think they are. I don't speak Chinese.
you forgot when devs make the game easier to attract new players, the current playerbase gets pissed because they don't want their game to appeal to "broader audience".
Ii remember playing league of legends in my teens, hating my life, hating myself, not knowing why do i even play this wasting my life getting nothing in return but anxiety and stress. I quit and never came back to playing it and thank god. Turned out of the best decisions in my life.
Runes & rune pages were sick. Enabled some really cool stuff & you also had to pay attention to what the enemy has slotted. The obligatory single crit rune was also a huge fun factor.
Nostalgia talk
1:19 battle party mentioned broo that was the first moba ive ever played
1) Skill curve
2) Toxicity
3) The common notion on the internet is if you play league = you have a problem and you need help.
Good 3rd I watch alot of LoL content while playing other mobas feels like a zoo over there till you see some good voices.
i love how deadlock came out right after this video
Playing dota 1 since clockwerk was introduced. I am glad i have done it, I am glad its over. Gave it all up in 2018, since then got married, two kids, work life balance. Recently got into path of exile, chris wilson took my soul.
Number one issue with nearly every MOBA: coming from behind is exceedingly difficult. A single mistake can lead to 15 minutes of standing under a tower, waiting to die, because that one guy won't vote to surrender.
It's just absurdly easy to get tons of momentum and run away with a game, and the design of a MOBA rewards constant pressure, so it's a "rich get richer" situation.
Mobas are most fun when you fuck around with unorthodox strats with friends, preferably 5 stack to avoid salty tryhards teammates
0:49
Ratatata74 and his league artworks:
Yea great video! Stepped out of LoL a while ago due to... life, but currently looking at Predecessor, getting back into Mobas a little. Lets see how toxic community gets there, if it's not dying out. Kinda dreaming about grinding with my homie like back in the days, awee that gone I guess
I played Dota 2 for the first time after a Co-worker told me, "Dude its easy and there is a character that plays exactly like Roadhog from Overwatch"
I got thrown into Low Priority because my team literally thought I was intentionally feeding.