I Investigated Failed MOBAs...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- Watch this video to find out why 3 massive MOBA projects FAILED to make a mark in this competitive gaming genre...
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00:00 Intro
00:30 Game 1
04:57 Game 2
08:15 Game 3 - เกม
![ทททททททท #27 [หลุยส์ เค โตมายังไง ณ สระบุรี]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CaKoYw_Xmtg/mqdefault.jpg)
UPDATE ON THIS VIDEO! Paragon: The Overprime announced on Feb 21st that they are ending service on the game as of April 22nd. I guess this version of Paragon is now also dead LOL. If you still are interested in playing Paragon, there is another remake called Predecessor I recommend checking out!
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If you wabt a 3rd person MOBA play Smite, Smite 2 is launching by 2025
@@Psychictater Hard pass
lol what
predecessor will die also same fate don't even waste your time with it. smite 2 is lurkin
The most unfortunate thing about Heroes of the Storm was that it was owned by Blizzard. The game itself was so unique and rich in potential.
Yeah... Blizzard just didn't do a very good job handling it :/ too focused on profits I guess.
@@DimpleGames Isn't that the game become more generous after the big update? Also I don't think focusing on profits is a wrong thing. Hots just come too late to the party and what they offered aren't as good as the competitors.
True
The game is so boring because its streamlined, I still play it with friends but I'd never play it alone. They like it because its so simple and they don't like league. Once you learn the most optimal path, all that is left to learn is how to rotate to obj. The game is just pure team fights on objectives which is good if you like action but after a while its just mind numbing. Heroes are super bullshit, a ton have infinitely scaling power or unfair abilities and it's frustrating. All supports are just healers with very few exceptions, and healer in general are very unfun to play because most of them just consist of spam "x" button all game to heal your team and that's your job, by the end your just falling asleep. There's barely any skill expression, gameplay gets stale, and heroes are either boring or frustrating to play against.
@@DimpleGames as far as I know, HOTS was making money, and there were people playing it back in the day, it had a healthy playerbase, the reason why they shut the Production of new content was because: "It didnt manage to become a big eSport". And thats all there is to it.
There is also another thing about Heroes of the storm. Blizzard wasted tons of money into the esports side of it for no reason.
Yep, they tried the same thing with Overwatch which was arguably a failure as well. eSports need to be organic, from grassroots teams and tournaments. Thats how you know the people actually want an eSports scene.
Totally agree with this. You can't make an esports scene by throwing money at it! Needs to start from the community!
Wouldn't say no reason. It was pretty popular but just didnt reach the heights of its competitors. Hots was doing quite well until Mike morheim stepped down as CEO and they cut the pro league at the same time. Basically without the pro league player count started to dwindle because whats a competitive game without competition? Hots also had trouble pulling in money because of "HOTS 2.0" they revamped the loot system and made it TOO generous to the point where there was no reason to spend money because you could get everything for free.
@@DimpleGamesyou can certainly encourage it, but instead of doing everything yourself. Throw a fraction of the money you would have invested into it for prizes to put some NOS in the engine
The collegiate scene was STRONG, I guess it gave them a false sense of security?
Important thing to note about Battlerite; instead of trying to fix the game's issues by adding more maps or objectives or anything like that, they made an entirely separate game called Battlerite: Battle Royale.
They chased the Fortnite money and completely neglected the game everyone already bought
Also, when the Battle Royale failed, they also abandoned this new game, and they made yet another separate game called V Rising. So battlerite was left to rot.
@@ninjaexperto7217 V rising was quite a success for a short time, you gotta understand that they need to pay their dev team, you can't make money out of a dead project
@@Osjey yeah i didn't say v rising was bad or anything just... you know... poor batlerite, had potential
V rising is actually a great game to this day, and they still update it frequently
You are right that Battlerite: Battle Royale was the final nail in the coffin but the game was unfortunately on the downturn for a while.
That DC moba failed so hard it didn't even appear in the list of failed mobas
man...i miss that one
@@mrk0per Yea, I wish it got more of a chance. It felt clunky and needed major core work, not just polish, but it was super fun. Poison Ivy Support FTW.
I loved that game, but they did so many things wrong. From the weird alternate universe version of characters coming out before the major ones, to the Gotham Heights map coming out before they had the standard 3 lane map ready(which permanently divided the player base), to Superman's stupid walking animation. But man, I miss being able to play as the DC pantheon in this style game.
It was called Infinite Crisis
whait....DC had a moba?
god i love battlerite. feels like a cross between a moba and a fighting game with how focused the game is on spacing, feinting and i-frames. not to mention the characters being both really fun and really balanced. also fyi what killed it were the devs getting sidetracked by a battle royale mode that ended up being made a seperate game anyways, and then coming back to do some baffling updates that were then reverted shortly after and then once again leaving the game to make V rising.
MOBA + Fighting game + Battle Royale
Came here to say this
i wish to this day that battlerite will come back, i loved oldur design
exactly this, I loved battlerite and had it since early access, he got the whole idea wrong about it, it may look simple but hard to master.
it was dev who shat on their fan base and their game
ugh... I refuse to call Battlerite a MOBA. It never was and never will be, and that's a good thing too, as it was supposed to be its own thing (aka the successor to Bloodline Champions)
In Hots they just made a official balance patch recently, although not a big one it still came out last tuesday. Which made me happy
Huh I didn't know this! That's great to hear!
Yeah. People (me included) have been playing Heroes of the Storm well after they were making updates for it. I don't know what to expect for the future of HotS, but I think there will be a small, but dedicated fan base sticking around for a while regardless if they keep updating the game or not.
@@DimpleGames rumors are hots is getting revived because of the microsoft acquisition
@@bigsmoke4592 it would be so amazing... If only... copium
They're just scared for Resurgence of the Storm
“Jumping in a moba, who knew?”
My brain anytime I need to jump 20 times before the start of a Smite match for my daily challenge.
Every time. Somehow, the worst yet easiest quest for a BP you'll get in SMITE 1.
I can't explain how furious i am by the way Blizzard treated HOTS ( Heroes of the storm ). This game has the most unique character designs i have ever seen in a moba like: Murky, Deathwing, Abathur, Lost vikings and my main and most amazing moba character in my opinion Cho'Gall. Even the more basic characters offer alot of personal customisation in the use of talents. It's such a shame that those amazing and unique character designs went to waste because of Blizzards greed...
As someone who played Battlerite Religously and getting into the top elo I noticed the main issues ( this was before battlerite focusing on battlerite royale which is an entirely different issues)
>The game is easy to pick up but the learning curve for heros is very high: learning what talents to take into what comps, which abilities are best to use in situations since ur strong abilities use ur uilt charge and even things like learning how to bait out abilities with ability cancels and counters can be super overwhelming and feel stompy when done to you
> The rank system was a total mess, Majority of time you would see gold/plat players in games with top 100 players, I realise its due to battlerite having a lower player base in general at the time but this put off alot of people
> there wasnt much of an esports push, I remember watching one streamed comp and that was it if I wanted to watch high elo battlerite I would have to seek out players to watch myself ((I miss you Joltz))
>Outside of gameplay the characters had 0 lore, they where planning on redoing it but never ended up following though which is sad, characters like ezmo, ashka, poloma, varesh,etc had intresting desgins but no purpose.
and of course all of this was getting improved on and was getting more players but they choose to gamble it all into a fortnite clone
Hero’s of the Storm is probably my second favorite MOBA it’s casual easier than most and has unique ideas with crazy talents that change up your play style.
Pokémon Unite
As an original Battlerite player who played it after being a League player, and who also works at a game studio here's my two cents:
The game was managed poorly from the product side.
I bought the game early on when it was 30 bucks (AU), which gave me all characters unlocked, plus all future characters. I had one mate who also dropped the 30 bucks on it and we had an absolute ball playing the game, finding characters that worked for us, and learning their intricacies, EX-abilities etc. My mate wasn't even a MOBA player - he hated League, but loved Battlerite.
As time went on, we kept playing, ranking up in 2v2s, and I became more and more bewildered at just how dang long Stunlock was taking to make the game Free-to-Play, even though we all knew that was the plan. This was one half of the story of why it failed. They failed to capitalise on the hype of their game - moved way too slowly. I had multiple other mates who were MOBA players, and interested in trying the game, but never did because at that time the price was prohibitive for them, especially when they could play League for free.
The other half of the poor management decisions which sealed its fate was as others have denoted already - they shifted their focus to this stupid trend-chasing during the battle-royale boom, by shifting almost all their dev resources to Battlerite Royale, which meant during the time they spent developing that, Battlerite got a pitifully small amount of updates, and any further development of deeper meta features (as you mentioned in your video) was non-existent. Then they released BR:R as a separate game, free-to-play. It was misguided, but also once again too slow to succeed. By the time BR:R came out, PUBG was dying, and Fortnite had killed pretty much any BR competitors.
I sank a good 500hrs into PUBG in those days, and was a committed Battlerite player, but I could count the amount of Battlrite: Royale matches I played on one hand. I just wanted to play the game I had invested into, but they had killed it. It was brutal.
When they turned around and retrofitted a bunch of the BR:R stuff into BR, I checked it out, but it just left such a bad taste in the mouth. Like they were admitting their mistake and trying to bribe me back by...keeping bringing up...the same mistake...because it was now bolted to their original product.
When they announced V-Rising, I was actually pretty upset. I remember watching the trailer and reading about the project, and discovering that it was once again essentially going down the path of trend-chasing other games/genres that were popular. I was really hoping that they'd work on a proper successor to Battlerite, but do it right this time with the product management side. But what I saw in V-Rising was their refined Battlerite combat system, strapped onto yet another trend like some freakish Frankenstein's Monster of a product.
I feel bad because Stunlock clearly has some talented developers, but their decision makers let them down.
Agree 100%
The game was dead before the battle royale. It doesn't make sense to blame it on the new game mode then then game had 4.5k players before the release. Royale itself had double the players.
Absolutely agree here. However despite V Rising being absolutely different genre from it's predecessors, it's a very good game, with good progression and still quite polished PvP mechanics. The only sad thing is that there is no actual ways to get into PvP unless you actually happen to be near another player.
Another issue a bunch of players had with HotS was the fact people were used to LoL and DotA's mechanics which allow a more skilled player to leverage his / her skills to get incremental advantage and "carry" their teams. In HotS you rely way more on the rest of your team. One uncooperative player is enough to doom a game as HotS is heavily based on objectives, which can be really frustraring, especially when dealing with Trolls.
Multiple maps also affect the playerbase, as playing in a map that you activelly dislike can sour the experience (imagine having bad luck and rolling the same map you hate 2-3 times in a row). The maps also heavily affected the heroes, as some heroes / archtypes would be a lot betteror worse depending on the map. It would also make it so a new player would need to learn how to play in different maps, with different layouts, resources and a different main gimmick, which can somewhat compensate for the game being simpler.
Also, because the game's main resource is experience and it's divided by the whole team at all times and objectives had very powerful effects that resulted in massive experience gains, some games felt like a snowball in which the winning team would most of the time press on their advantage, resulting in a even bigger XP advantage...
The game was very bland.
The reward and joy was low. But the loss felt much worse.
HotS was the best moba for teams in my opinion, you play every single part of the game like an actual team.
@@Wellshem wrong :D hallo? we playing the same game? well back at 2016 i decided, i want to play with and against professional players. to achieve my goal, i first have to be at least master tier with 3000 ish points. i did just that. for my main position i played malthael and artanis (they can carry alone in the right hands) can do camps, soak and hard carry fights alone because of self heal shield. but the off roles (because they had pick order back than) i mained 2 heroes each. for the low elo grind my main 2 heroes sittin in a nice 70% wr. even with constant nerfs they had no power to hold me down. at master i lowered down to 60% wr but you can't say it is not solo carry. i was mostly mvp win or lose with my main heroes. in my opinion, if you can't carry a game of heroes of the storm alone, either you don't have the game knowlage, you do not posess all seeing eye ( what most likely the enemy doing at any given moment) or you do not posess micro skills, critical disigion making skill. or you can be a mix of all in a different levels.
TL DR if you feel, you can't carry a game of hots alone, you just hit your peak level.
This is my main issue with hots. The game is made to be played in teams, which makes the solo exerience worse.
Honestly, i hated random map in hots. Once i rolled gifts for the crow guy 3 times in a row, which is my second most hated map ( most hated is that skull collecting map with 2 levels).
Paragon the Overprime isn’t the only Paragon remake. There is another one that IMO is better called Predecessor which is in closed beta. You should try it, it’s extremely fun.
Yeah I had about this one too! That's super interesting, I'll have to check it out!
Please do, and then make a follow up video to this one. Pred needs the support compared to Overprime@@DimpleGames
*paid early access, not closed beta btw
Predecessor is so good, can’t recommend it enough
I’ve been playing Predecessor too great reincarnation of Paragon, even has some original characters they added
Also for battlerite, straight up for anyone still playing that game which is me, I wouldn't say there is nothing to dig yourself into, its just not that interesting than how I would say Hots does, in battlerite its more about layering against and with your opponents with abilities and spacing, It is the most fun micro intensive moba out there. Throw in once you get good enough mind games become such a huge part of it with counters and fainting abilities, simply put some people in there are so disgusting at playing its just an amazement to watch
I love battlerite and it's one of the best mobas. The only problem I have is that there's not enough players so I get hard stomped every game 😢
Thanks for sharing this! Love hearing a long time players perspective :)
HOTS was my first MOBA and I really loved playing it and had so much fun. Managed to convert my brother to play it from MMO's and he became semi-pro.
And then I picked up Battlerite and man it was SO fun and I climbed the ranks so fast with a character I never thought I'd be good with.
RIP these 2 fantastic games
Hots is alive tho - quick matches and ranked are fast to find.
I still remember the day they announced closing paragon. 3rd saddest day of my life.
Damn, that's deep.
we lost paragon and unreal tournament for fortnite, and look at what that game has brought us.... an endless stream of cringe
Renzo remembers the day the Dawngate closed. A dark day for gaming, but it is no shame to weep at beauty
We leave footprints, but the tides blur them away.
It's a good plan. It'll work 'CAUSE I SAY SO!@@cameronwalters1626
Thank you good sir, for having a memory as good as your taste.
@@vicentereveco3275
thedawngatearchiveDOTwixsiteDOTCOM/dawngate/contact?lightbox=image_et5
Will keep the memories true
@@vicentereveco3275 Googling ´The Dawngate Chronicles´ will forever keep our memories true
Awesome Videos man! Keep it up, Im sure you´ll grow insanely fast. Battlerite was super fun when it came out. I bought it very early but only played it for about 60 hours over all these years. The combat, movement and especially the camera controll are so well made, but theres just nothing beyond the pure fighting.
One Moba (AoS) map I used to love playing back in the WC3 customs days was HoSk, Hands of Sorrow Knight. It was a custom hero builder on the WC3 engine and had lots of interesting ideas. You picked extra passives throughout the game to as you leveled, some towers didn't die and instead became yours when you "destroyed" it, and there was a deathmatch option after you finish the game so you can have your salty 1v1 runbacks, even against your own teammates. It was on the same platform as original dota so it was never going to be as popular, but I always had more fun there.
If you ever do another one of these you *have* to include Awesomenauts. Such a nostalgic and honestly unique moba to me, sad to see it in the state it is right now.
This video hurts. I'm a dota 2 player (started 12 years ago), but I was having so much fun with HotS (no items, global xp, map objectives, and so incredibly fun and diverse heroes to play) that y started to convince friends to move from dota to HotS, a couple of years later, game declare itself dead. I still miss it, I really liked some of it's character, so many unique mechanics in them.
Battlerite was also fun, played for several months, quick action, short game, tons of adrenaline, also miss it a bit
Hots is the best 5v5 game I've ever played. It's the only moba that I look back at it only positively and I know it's not nostalgia. It's the only game that I know if I get back into it I will just enjoy my time, while with lol for example the fun will fizzle after a few days of playing.
Every character was fun, they had some very unique character mechanics in place, the game felt like a team focused one and it is the only game that I can remember having fun in both loosing and winning consistently.
The enemy couldn't carry because of one smurf or a superfed character. Every game always felt winnable if the team decided to take it seriously and in many cases they would get eventually.
thanks for telling me about Paragorn. great video. much love for your content. take care :)
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it! :)
Overprime is dead now, but you should check out Predecessor.
The one that made me the saddest when it died was Dawngate. I loved the lore and way they engaged their player base in it! But EA.. just EA
The Dawngate closes
I’m coming Imanna
Another issue with Battlerite was they suddenly jumped on the Battle Royal trend that came out which split up their playerbase since it was 2 seperate games. They wanted to focus more on the battle royal part than the arena which kinda like heroes of the storm lead to it's death.
Kinda disagree with you on this one. When they jumped into the battleroyalr trend, it was their last ditch effort to bring the game to life. Sure, you can make the argument that if they had spend the time and resource for the battleroyale into the maingame instead, things could have went differently. But the ultimate goal (which i can only assume) was for the battleroyale version of the game to become the main game (hence their rush to hop on the battleroyale trend)
I’d make an argument HotS isn’t even that dead. The Quick Match game mode actually has an in-built hidden MMR, which means that it’s able to maintain a matchmade experience and still have reasonable queue times without matching the same players on repeat. Not to mention how incredibly fast you can get into a match of ARAM when last I played that mode. It clearly has a decently large player base still kicking around.
The bigger reason I say this though, is that recently Blizzard has actually started putting out small balance patches for HotS again. Which means we have active (albeit slow) patches and a decently sized player base. It’s not currently serious competition for any of the market defining MOBAs, but it’s not really dead either. It’s just a bit of a smaller game.
There is another forgotten moba. It was called Master x Master (MxM). MxM had really cool ideas like being able to swap between two characters on the fly and being able to pilot a giant mech. It had always been a niche game but it was really fun to play and it's a shame that it died.
THIS GAME WAS SO GOOD OMFG
Honestly imo best moba I’ve ever played. If they didn’t shutdown the servers I’d still be playing it to this day. I miss that game so much
As long as they don't shut down the server, I would argue this is the best state for a MOBA game, now everything you learn about a hero is useful forever, no more changes makes it easier to master. It's about as dead as chess.
Exactly. In my opinion there is a difference between "dead" and "finished" games.
I'd love to see Microsoft revitalize HotS on a small scale. Release one hero and maybe one map a year.
HOTS was my favorite game of all time 😢 Was so refreshing to focus on non stop team fighting & not itemization or last hits
Dawngate was going to be the best MOBA ever, but EA said they didn't want money.
You did Battlerite so dirty here... The game has the most complex and engaging combat out of all MOBAS I've played (i would personally not even call it a moba) just from the sheer amount of options in skills and being able to feint the use of most ended up building thrilling mind games every match you played against someone who also knew what they were doin. My time playing the game led to one of the most satisfying experiences in gaming I've had in forever.
I miss this game really often
Yeah, it was an amazing game. I've played VRising and we all just wanted to do pvp in an arena. Devs had something special there, but simply abandoned it, when in reality it needed more marketing and love to be successful
The for me it that they marketed it as a Moba but its more a fighting game , and then they tried to make it into a battle royale...
Huge Battlerite fan here, the Devs are extremely talented and they know how to polish a game(shed a tear for old Blizzard), marketing issues aside.
I'll also say the a MOBA is a Multiplayer Online Battle Arena and in the true definition of the acronym Battlerite is a MOBA. However, MOBA is generally referred to as a game with lanes and a home base that needs to be destroyed by other players. Better to have labeled Battlerite genre as an Arena Battler though there are few.
And with Resurgence of the Storm a fan made remake digs HotS free from the graveyard.
Now we just need a Battlerite successor and all MOBAs are alive again ^^
great video covering these! I do think its really hard for new MOBAs to join the competition nowadays. #FreeRP
If Battlerite is considered a MOBA then Brawl Stars is a MOBA.
It's been stated already but im glad that HotS is still alive through its fanbase and community; heck it got a recent patch! so maybe that means something for the future? just a fleck of hope there haha
HOTS for me will always be the best moba, I regularly go back to it and its nice to see how its still a very popular game. I always seem to get matches quickly and often I find them quicker to get into than league. It doesn't always provide totally fair matchups like putting a bunch of squishy heroes against a much better team fight composition but the majority are fairly balanced. Another thing I love about hots is the small details that are different like having a mount to traverse the map quicker, not having to last hit every minion, everyone gets the same xp so no one is overpowered from a massive lead, the unique ways that some of the heroes play like cho gall being split between 2 players or the last vikings where you have to control 3 characters at once. Hots just offers a unique and more relaxed way to play mobas and I appreciate all the fun moments it has given me, I won't forget it.
I played Hots for a few months, it was a bit different than lol but I enjoyed the variety of maps and stuff.
Am I only one who remembers moba by EA games called Dawngate?
I have to say that I think you're totally wrong about battlerite. If anything, battlerite was TOO hard for more casual moba players. The combination of the style of movement, with the resource management ( your skills) plus the additional skill level of being able to cancel some abilities to bait out opponents defensive cds makes the game have an insanely high skill ceiling. The characters are extremely well made and have a lot of depth in uniqueness, but similar to other mobas it's really tough for new players to get into. If you go into a game vs a character that you don't know what they do, and then just die to some mechanic you don't understand that can be really frustrating and push people to leave the game.
But ultimately, the biggest thing that killed battlerite was the Battleroyal. If the dev team had just committed to updating the arena version, stuck with it and really dove into fixing some of their issues, making match making better, churning out some more new player friendly characters working on their progression, adding new fun limited time events, they would have had a WAY higher chance for success. But they had the Overwatch syndrome. The devs basically completely abandoned the game that brought them so much success to try to make it into something else that was totally different from what their loyal fanbase was interested in. Because of this, instead of having a huge fanbase to flock to play the game on arrival, the BR fell completely flat. Also because of the lack of dev time put into the arena game, it had also had insanely dwindling numbers.
That's what killed battlerite.
wanted to come back and say that after rereading this it comes off a bit negative towards you -- that's not my intention, I liked your video a lot and I'm sure you put a lot of time into playing the games for this video. I hope I can add a bit of additional insight as someone who played battlerite from closed beta and loved the game.
Thank you for you opinion man! I've heard a few Battlerite veterans say something very similar to you! Sounds like the game gets really intensive and complex once you dive more deeply into it and get more used to the gameplay loop! I think for me, since I only put around 10-12ish hours into each game, it was hard to see that complexity come out!
I think a lot of other players probably felt that way as well and instead of hard committing to the game, only saw things on that more surface level and moved on to something else! Obviously that's just a guess from my experience though!
And yeah the BR mode was a big "oopsie" by Stunlock, I completely agree with you there :)
No worries about the comment at all! Thank you for pitching in to the conversation!
Good video, lot of effort and very entertaining, keep it up!
Wow, great vid, I played them all
> For me HoTS just lack of player base, and once we jump to matches, we just hope we have teammates that understand the objectives, if we don't then 70% a lost. Also it seems Blizz slowly decreasing and not keeping in touch to feedbacks / maintaining the fans / or getting a new one and keep them in the Blizz's games. Seems like all Blizz game are slowly head to deadend.
> While Battlerite is one of the games that I really enjoyed because of its top-down view and true arena brawler style, the mechanics is great, your quick-fire finger determined the result. It was too bad they didn't focus on feedbacks, giving new contents, balancing or constantly marketing, until they released BR:Royale for keeping up a hype and act as a last ditch to save the studio (until they release V Rising)
> Paragon had many spiritual successor like Smite, Predecessor and Overprime, I'm just worried that there are too many games using this formula and biased the public, resulting all of those games not getting a strong player base
Great vid btw, thank you for made it
A bit late but just going to add that Smite launched way before Paragon, so Smite being a spiritual successor isn't quite right. Fully agree with the rest of the comment tho, good summarization
@@thatoneweirdbish6364 Agree, thanks for reminding
An amazing thing with Heroes of the Storm is also that the way XP and objectives worked made space for way more creative and crazy heroes which just cannot work in Lol or Dota.
I think the big issue with HotS beyond the fact that it was late, is the fact that a lot of its mechanics aren't necessarily appealing to much of the casual crowd. Team levelling meant that someone doing poorly in a lane and not soaking would negatively affect you, the player. But more importantly Talents don't really capture the imagination that items in League do. As much as I dislike how League implements the item system, there is a reason why clickbaity videos of building 6 infinity edges on Jhin do so well, not to mention Dark Mane's entire library of building champions in weird ways such as AD Ekko. League is designed in such a way where it rewards individual play with dopamine inducing power boosts that let people show off how good they are, whilst also allowing for ingame customization choices that really let you goof off and do stupid stuff, and these are the 2 things one needs to really be attractive in a casual crowd. You don't really have that with team levelling and talents, team levelling means that your team as a whole has to be outcompeting the enemy in order to gain a significant power boost, and even if you can go with whacky off meta talents, you're still restricted to whatever Blizzard has curated for the hero.
Personally speaking, I think something that HotS lacks that the other games do well is making your progression as character prominent. In Dota (and even League), there is a massive difference between you at Level 1 when you have bad stats and only 1 ability, vs at Level 30 where you have all talents, aghs upgrades, and are 6 slotted with strong items. This feeling of having your numbers going up releases the same dopamine that RPGs do in seeing your numbers going up, getting better gear, and learning new spells and abilities. HotS meanwhile, you have all your abilities at Level 1, so the only noteworthy in game progression is the talents which while it isn't nothing, isn't anywhere as exciting as what the other games offer. It doesn't help that for every hero, every stat increases by 4% every level, which means outside of your ability to quickly kill creeps, the stats you gain per level basically don't matter unless you're ahead or behind in levels.
What I will say positively about HotS is how many good ideas the game had, and this is reflected by how both League and Dota adopted elements from HotS after it came out. Even if I don't think the Talent System is enough to provide an interesting customization system on its own, its still a really interesting system, and Valve clearly agreed since they implemented Talents into Dota 2 18 months after HotS came out. In fact there are several HotS innovations I can list that eventually came to League and Dota, such as watch towers (became outposts, and then later watchers in Dota), Bosses that help you push a lane after you defeat them (became the Rift Herald in 2017), Healing Fountains (briefly were implemented into Dota as the shrines, but were then morphed into the present day lotus pools), rideable vehicles such as the Dragon Knight (recently added into League with the Rift Herald update this year), Many aghs upgrades in Dota especially with the big updates in 2019 and introduction of the shard in 2020 resemble many of the more creative types of talents you see in HotS, and finally the support questline system League added in 2017 feels very similar in concept to the HotS quest talents.
Wow thank you for this! Really interesting to hear your perspective!
HOLYYYY PARAGON LOOKS SO FUN!! I NEED A BREAK FROM LEAGUE. I WILL DEFINITELY GIVE IT A TRY! WONDERFUL VIDEO! CHEERS
The Paragon in this Video is also dead. But another Paragon remake still stands and it is called Predecessor.
as a person who bought battlerite back in 2016 and played it throughout this years i can say that it's one of my favorite games of all time and it's still breaks my heart that it's dead and that there's no more arena brawlers like battlerite to play. It's not a moba since there's no lanes and thrones to destroy, but an arena brawler which is inspired by arena modes in mmorpg games like wow, that's the reason why there's a lot of spells on each character and wasd movement. I disagree with dimple on this game being simple and that's being the reason of game's downfall, because he recorded this video when there's only bots and weak players in public matches and the game's ambition of becoming a new esport has died a long ago. When the game launched it was vice versa, the game was too complex and hard to start because of it's steep learning curve since you were having too much buttons to learn on every character to even understand why you're getting clapped every match. This caused for a lot of players to leave before they even found out how much adrenaline and action this 2 minute matches have, i literally forced my friend to play through the first 10 hours so he would start enjoying the game. It became his favorite game too and he lost interest in dota where he spent 1000+ hours because 50+ minutes games in dota haven't had as intense fights and moments that you can get in here. The other reason why the game fell off is because stunlock studios have a history of making a huge marketing company in the release of their game which leads to great amounts of sales at the start of the game and then they just stop updating it and move to another project. This happened with their latest game V Rising too.
say i'm not reading all of that if you like fat men covered in oil
Heroes of the storm was the least stressful MOBA. Ohhh god how I miss Leoric
he's still there and a dedicated playerbase aswell :)
I mean, respect to Epic for releasing the assets for free use. Feels like they actually respected the art and the community. Surprisingly different from the normal capitalist strategy of taking all your ip to your grave.
And props to the devs who took the assets and recreated the game in different formats. Really shows how dedicated the fanbase is.
Shame they didn't treat the Unreal Tournament fanbase the same way.
imo one of the problems about heroes of the storm was buying new characters, most of them were 10k+ and farming 1k per day was like a ton of time when the funniest part of hots was how different each character feels.
Well you have a cheap bundle that can buy for free give like 50 champ to play and if you do it you will have a lot more money to buy new one
If you haven't tried it, one of the most interesting takes on the MOBA genre, to me personally, is an upcoming game called BAPBAP. It's a MOBA Battle Royale, with roguelike elements, making every game unique and interesting. It's fast paced, and the map is big enough to make each area feel unique, while being small enough that games only last 5-10 minutes. The gameplay is incredibly addicting, and each character has their own mechanics that make them feel unique. It's currently still in development, in the Pre-Launch phase, but there's an open beta for the game this upcoming weekend, and I'd definitely recommend trying it to anyone who's a fan of MOBAs!
Also #freeRP in case it helps you see this.
HotS was genuinely disliked by many in the MOBA genre because of its simplicity.
Some people chose to be a hardass over lasthitting/items. I personally liked talents being an effective replacement for items, changing the way heroes feel rather than being just a stat boots or a bonus ability you buy.
BUT the big one was the EXP system. People made jokes about this being the "Soviet MOBA" for that - and it actually was the game's biggest design flaw because it makes matches inherently be decided by the worst player rather than the best.
Because LEVEL is the key deciding factor, getting killed frequently is still "feeding" the same way as it is in other MOBAs. Even if they don't get gold... they get exp. A lot of it. Add to that, EXP is distributed across the entire enemy team, so when you die, you don't just feed one single player. You feed the entire team by proxy.
As a result, if someone dies 5 times or something like that, he's the reason why the entire enemy team is ahead in level - which is lethal at the talent levels and ESPECIALLY if they reach level 10 before your team for that reason.
I know some folks might think this is just being toxic, but no. It's just the facts based on how the game is designed. If only a single enemy gets "fed" a smart team can *usually* deal with it. Not so in HotS because the entire enemy team gets ahead. That's why games are decided by the worst player rather than the best, which should not be the case, ever.
I would've played it more if not for that glaring flaw. In my opinion, what truly killed HotS is the EXP system.
another thing about battlerite: It was a spin-off of another game, bloodline champions, which was a objective-driven moba like HOTS but before HOTS was launched. Then, at some point, devs decided to change the game to be more combat oriented, which gave birth to battlerite. Maybe they wanted to try something different for the genre, idk.
There is another Paragon Revival type game called Predecessor, but it's also behind a paywall that was a bundle instead of free to play.
I gave HotS a good try back in the days and trust me in the long run simpler doesn't mean more fun always.Heavy relying on team can give you high anxiety at times.As a Dota player I well know that even on the worst possible team chemistry if i do my best there is a slight chance of winning and I think this kind of applies in LoL too. Winning chances with a "bad" team in HotS was 0.
Not really. You can carry in HotS, specialy in the old day, it just hard. Even now Some hero are even design to be the carry, a good kel'thuzad can finish his quest soon and destroy every teamfight, a good Illidan can crush enemy backline and solo the rest.
The people behind battlerite went on to make a game called Vrising, which is so much fun and a really refreshingly great game. You can tell that they took what they learned from battle rite because it's a to down fast paced fighting game that is a survival game too. It's so much fun and I'm happy if blew up.
Having played all of those games, have some of my thoughts on them
1. HotS is one of my favourite mobas overall. When i want to play it, its just hits the right spot. No need of thinking about jungle routing or lane managing. Go lane, kill creep, hit opponent, press QWER. Amazing gameplay. One thing that i find consistent throughout all of those mobas is matchmaking. It is always fun to play, unless i get absolutely destroyed because some 900 lvl dude just knows what to do and i dont have an opportunity to try his hero. But i understand that it happens because of a small alive playerbase. HotS is pretty much a teamfight simulator on most heroes right now. Earlier there have been another role that was focused on pushing lanes and gathering exp, which they reworked and just threw those heroes into different classes. Cant really tell if it was a good idea or not, but i guess they wanted to change somethings
2. Battlerite is, in my opinion, the ONLY true MOBA. Since moba is a "multiplayer online battle arena" and not a "farming simulator with occasional fights". Battlerite is really fun, but, once again, in my opinion, it has a REALLY high skill ceiling. The amount of jukes, plays, couters and other bs you can pull off and feel good about is absurd. Just watch some tournaments and you will see what i am talking about. For more casual players it also can feel really frustrating because of a small playerbase. Only tryhards are left and the leave no chance. There has also been another game called "Battlerite: Battlegrounds" if i recall correctly, which was even more fun than the base game and was ftp.
3. The whole history of Paragon is hilarious to me. The start, the death, the revive, the death, the revive. I really hope that its not a curse of those assets and just poor managment and business decisions, since the game is really fun. Combining the microskill of a shooter and macro of a moba is a really fresh mixture. Yes, there is smite, but smite, for me, also feels like only has sweats left in it. The gameplay didnt really change all that much, some characters has some reworks and stuff, they discontinued some features(really miss the sprint) added some other ones and current predecessor just feels slower and bulkier. Still recommend checking it out
An amazing video! Was fun to watch, great voice and the flow of the video is excellent! Keep up the work❤️
Hero design was probably one of the best aspects of Heroes of the Storm. You had all sorts of stuff like a 2-player character, being able to turn into a "tower" on the ruins of a building, a hero that was 3 separately controlled characters, and a guy who was built to be weak but could place a respawn point anywhere.
Blizzard's expectations for the game were strange though. They really pushed to get it into the mainstream, hosting million-dollar tournaments, and even showing a game over on ESPN2. They were funneling money to an esports scene that just didn't exist. By the end, they were hosting streams with incentives that gave rewards if enough people watched, and since those goals weren't being met, the players who were watching wouldn't get all the rewards.
I cannot believe Paragon is back. I wanted to play it back in the day but my pc wasn't good enough and by the time I could have played it, it was down already. I can't wait to try it agian!
I used to play Battlerite a lot in high school, would not say I was particularly good, but to me what made the game really interesting was really the slow process of really mastering a champion, they are all quite easy to pick up, but to master them and win against other good people is a hell of an other challenge.
And since the fighting system was centered around the total control you had on your champ, it was a real matter of skill.
Yoooo ur the moba man, I watched your dota or league video a while back and forgot about you. I finally found one of the better moba content creatora
I play battlerite since the beta until these days and I can firmly assure you that what killed Battlerite was Stunlock. I can resume the problems to: lack of a good community support, bad matchmaking and battlerite Royale. Battlerite royale started as a side mode to the main game (like TFT was for League) but then, they decided to make it a separate thing (like LoR was to League). Since the launch of the Royale, stunlock decided to move their efforts to the new game. It’s so happened that the base players did not accept the new game and stunlock said “well. So that’s it” and never got back
I remember some years ago their was a MOBA called Strife that I used to play where you could build your own items/customize them in a way. I also remember some fond memories from Heroes of the Storm..
What is the lofi song you used at 3:38-4:53?
My Shazam won't pick it up, but it's a great tune!
Some notes from someone how has been playing HotS since beta: Blizzard didnt have bad support for the game from the beginning.
After 2 years or so it started to become weaker support.
In the first 2 years we got new events, new maps, new skins every few months. New heroes got released EVERY 3 WEEKS. I am not lying. Every 3 weeks. And they were SUPER transparent and communicative about it. They released 2-3 videos per hero in those 3 weeks release schedule. And they even reacted to players feedback a lot.
I actually felt highly attached to not just the game but to the developers too. Any HotS veteran remembering Justin Browder? He was like the head of HotS and he talked a lot to the players in TH-cam videos and on the forums. I felt like I know this dude personally.
Back then I thought thats the standard in the industry. High communication output, good reaction on players feedback.
Nowadays I know better. Videogame companies hate their players.
3:49 It died because blizzard pushed the competitive scene, they wasted all the game budget on a tournament with a big money price just to never do it again.
HotS imo suffered from shared XP that would let a bad teammate hold a game back too much. I had at least 1000 hours in HotS and was playing through early beta. Still remember the day I called it quits after losing 5, 45~ min long games because of always having one teammate not joining team fights.
U didnt talk about gigantic and it is also back XD. The nostalgia.
How do you make this video and mention Overprime but not Predecessor? I don't get it.
Yh that felt off to me. Netmarble bought the name from EPIC but Predecessor has actual ex-Paragon devs working on it at Omaeda Studios so I consider it the real spiritual successor.
I still enjoy grassroots tournaments for hots, so I'm glad it still has some people playing
Strife was one that I really enjoyed but failed quickly. you could customize the components of items to have really custom builds. also Infinite Crisis, the DC moba, i was super stoked for it but it flopped.
Strife was goooood
@@Kasdog i loved it. I used to play Bo (tanky cow dude) and build damage items but they were made from HP components so i was super beefy while having good damage.
Im pretty sure HotS is coming back in some capacity. They released a new patch not that long ago. It'll never be as big as it was obviously, but it might resurge a lil
One thing for HotS in my opinion: loot boxes. Money is to be made here, but they were shitting on you with loot boxes. You got one for every champion level, every profile level and so on. You had so many of them, you had no motivation to spend some money on them.
Ah that tarmack video from 2018 in the intro. Man i miss his weeky gaming news show😢
Overprime is technically the 3rd parazombie. Predecessor which is the option and Fault(Died as well). Team Souleve is the creator of Overprime where as Netmarble picked them and are currently funding them
Hots was the best moba game I played. I'm surprised it failed. I had a ton of fun playing with friends. All the hots heroes felt quite good. Ultimately I didn't have enough free time to play competitive games and keep up, so I hadn't realized it was not being updated anymore.
I know it was tiny, but Demigod was awesome imo
The arenas were stunningly made, and the characters, some of the best I've ever seen.
The vision was there..
I played Paragon because it reminded me of another game back in 2010. LOCO ( land of chaos online) sadly the game is dead, but LOCO REVOLUTION 2 is in progress by 1 or 2 people, trying to revive it again. Hopefully you get to try that game out.
i reeeaaaly loved HOTS when it came out! i stoped league for HOTS but then stoped after one year cus it was patched and changed so much
I actually tried every single one of these and had a lot of fun doing so! But I do feel like some of them really put 0 emphasis on the balance of the game. Not that they have to be league levels of "balanced" (lets be honest league isn't that great with this either) but for example Battlerite in my opinion at least had some of the most bullshit heros I've ever seen in a moba. Either way id love for my companies to try their hand at mixing in moba elements into other genres (like paragon which I find myself enjoying quite a bit). Great video mate! :)
I really enjoyed Battlerite back in the days! Thanks for the memories and the info! #FREERP
Heroes of the Storm was doing great in 2015-2018. But when Blizzard learned from Overwatch how much money loot boxes can make, they decided to change the monitization in HOTS to that too. However the balance of pricing and probabilities were done so poorly that most players had access to everything they wanted in the game with only currency gained from playing the game. And as time went on, this became more and more true as the players accumulated more wealth within the game. So with this change, Blizzard wasnt making any money anymore, and as a result they deleted the esport scene and announced plans to stop development of the game. This announcement was what killed the playerbase. Though it should be said that it is still a fairly popular game, just not what it once was.
omg im so glad I found this video! played paragon years ago but couldn't really enjoy it with my trash laptop. it just vanished
hots is probably the best one tbh. but all mobas are really just rekins of one another when you boil it down. i prefer objective based pvpve so battlerite wasnt for me. if we think about it, overwatch is like the next gen moba. id love to see more roguelike elements pushed into the moba genre. remove characters, remove items. we get a selection of augments to choose from. as the match progresses. games like these are always victim of a meta forming. forcing rng into each match will keep it fresh. id love a moba with a procedurally generated map as well
I was part of the closet beta of paragon that i applied to for fun in school, i played it and it felt a bit weird i aslo had not yet gotten into overwatch yet because it was still in beta as well i think. back then and i played alone which can be a bit sad when i comes to games like these, might check out the new version. great vid, keep up the good work
The Paragon in this Video is also dead, but you can check out Predecessor.
Nice vid next do these games
Gigantic, Breakaway and battle born
Man you made me remember battlerite. I had such a blast playing it nonstop for days and days. Idk why I stopped playing. Probably because my friends just wanted to play league instead 😅
But it’s such a fun game I put a lot of time into it.
Amazing video, good watch! I have played heroes of the storm once, a friend recommended it and offered me to try it on their pc. I can definitely agree with what you said - it was more relaxing and I didn't feel useless. Cool game.
As for Paragon - thank you for telling us about it! It looks hella fun, I'm definitely installing it as soon as I get to my pc!
#freerp
excited, I liked Paragon and had no idea it was "relaunching"
This was such a clever paragon ad
Paragon is back but called predecessor and it’s amazing. I’ve been addicted
Heroes is the most fun moba I played, the diversity in playstyles with the heroes was crazy, and it cut all the needless fat out to really focus on teammwork and the combat interactions between the heroes. Not to mention the art, always a strong point in Blizzard games, but here it was REALLY top notch because they managed to take all kinds of different characters from different franchises with very different art styles and they still managed to make something cohesive and super pretty, that was such a massive challenge to accomplish.
Also shoutout to Dawngate and Heroes of Newerth, two other really fun MOBA's that just didn't cut it :(
Nice video. Interesting topic. However, much as I despise video clutter, I'd recommend mentioning giveaways early in the video if you want them to be successful at driving engagement.
You should try out Omeda Studio's version of Paragon called Predecessor. Predecessor definitely has a better and more engaged community.
Predecessor has been really fun lately and reminds me more of Paragon than Overprime.
Poor poor Battlerite.. I was playing the "prequel" Bloodline Champions which was essentially the same game with a bit less characters and slightly different animations.
That game had the same fate as Battlerite did. Sadly the developers didn't learn their lesson after their first game, which really is a shame because it was a blast.
Me and all my friends played Paragon when it dropped and we absolutely loved it, but only played twice before it disappeared. Guess League had its claws in us too deep.
Battlerite was one of the best games I have ever played. They had such a great opportunity to expand on the game and have a game that could truly be a great competitive game. Hopefully with the huge success of V Rising, they will return to Battlerite in the future.
Great analysis of Battlerite. I think that game should have been marketed to the crowd that likes games like smash bros, Tekken, Street Fighter, etc. It really doesn't have what MOBA players are looking for. I made that experience with myself and with everyone in my circle, too. Of course, it's my personal opinion but your analysis made me realize this just now.