Why the Rakatan INFINITE EMPIRE makes NO SENSE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 มี.ค. 2022
- Look, I love Rakatans but the Rakatan Infinite Empire makes no sense within the grander scheme of Star Wars and here's why...
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Rakata, Rakatans, Tomaytos, tomatos - same thing, don't pull me up on it
Tomaytos 🥴👍
Yes the Rahkatans don't make any sense, but I have two questions,
Did they forward the plot to conclusion?
So? What else is new?
Yeah, I wouldn't want to talk potatoes and... sweet potatoes right now.
PO-TA-TOES! Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in planet sized prison!
Poor Gollum though. Gotta pity a corrupted being who just can't enjoy those side platters.
As a Stellaris player, the idea of a small ancient empire crushing a younger but much bigger empire seems pretty common.
Fallen empires are implied to have once controlled a lot of the galaxy and to have over the millennia since scaled back to a handful of core systems
I agree the dispute of tall vs wide
The source is... Soa himself lmao. I literally put it in *marks* in the video. Additionally, if they did control 'a metric fuck tonne of vassal planets' you really think a species that calls itself 'the infinite empire' wouldn't consider them a part of its controlled space? And add them to the tally of worlds they *owned?*
"How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man!"
@@100StarWars I agree that is a strange oddity. Maybe the Rakata only considered worlds they themselves settled to be part of their empire and the rest were just chaff worlds full of slaves. Maybe the writing’s just bad. This era of Star Wars rhymes with the War in Heaven era in 40K, with the Necrons and C’tan being the Rakata and the Eldar and Old Ones being the Kwa and maybe the Celestials. Funny how both settings in both universes have major consistency problems but I actually kind of like that. These empires are so old and so distant in universe that all the modern galaxy has left are myths and legends. That leads to wild inconsistencies. The Bronze Age civilizations that ruled the Mediterranean in our own history before the Sea Peoples conquered them and paved the way for classic Iron Age civilizations like the Elamites and Assyrians? We know next to nothing about who these people were or who conquered them or why. So we call them broad names like Old Kingdom of Egypt and Sea Peoples. This was eight thousand years ago on our own planet. How much would people have to go on for a civilization on other planets thirty thousand years ago?
In my head cannon, the 500 planets of the Infinite Empire refers to Crown worlds, planets that serve as hubs of power from which whom the rakatans controls Hundreds of another lesser planets near
This, it was basically ignored in this vid as it would debunk many of his points but yes, 500 crown worlds spread around the entirety of the Star wars universe, No empire has had such total control of the entirety of that space, in lore rakata do not consider other species as any more than animals, so they would not consider slave worlds "rakata empire"
Funny how this is the one comment he wont reply to because it completely rebukes his point… maybe he overlooked it lol
Came to say just this. They have 500 worlds they actually care about, and an unknown number of "farm" worlds where all of the species they consider lesser live.
I was wondering why he never brough this up.
@@tachi1579
Something which is not a fact and is backed up by nothing is ignored? color me surprised!
Sidious had a pre-built Republic to turn into the Empire. Rakatans had to actually go out and build their Empire from nothing. So not really a fair comparison there
Sure, it's a fair point to make. But it's not like the Rakatan's faced too much resistance when they had a machine that gave them almost infinite resources and their technology was vastly superior to basically everyone else.
@@100StarWars I agree. Another reason to keep in mind is that their Hyperspace systems could only travel to Planets that were strong in the Force. That would make the gaps between conquered Planets really big. It was basically Quality over Quantity. That doesn't really explain how a rogue conquered double the amount of Planets though unless the Technology improved by time he came about. The inconsistency comes from a lack of lore but I still agree that they don't always make sense.
Not to mention, that they had to find a hyperspace corridor to the planet(s) they are about to conquer. We know, that you can't simply travel from one planet to another in the Star Wars Universe. And we also know, that a corridor is more stable, the more ships travel through it. Also: If their ships are fueled with the power of the dark side, maybe someone has to concentrate to uphold the engine
Also, the teleportation devices on Belsavis only teleported you around on the planet, the teleportation devices the Kwa had teleported you across the galaxy... So it's most likely not the same kind of device.
@@100StarWars I do think its a little unfair that you say it "Makes no sense that the Esh-Ka" lost when you acknowledge that the Rakata had infinite resources and tech. This lore is wild, sure. It does wild things, goes in all kinds of crazy directions, but I don't think it necessarily *doesn't* work.
I feel like there’s a number of misconceptions. Just because you are advanced in one area doesn’t make you advanced in another. I don’t find it that difficult to believe that they had super advanced technology but have hit a wall when it comes to hyperspace. It’s it pertains to the war with the Esk’a, size really doesn’t matter lol. I think the infinite empire could easily beat them because if we’re honest, the Esk’a aren’t that impressive technologically. Hollowing out a planet and basically weaponizing hyperspace seem pretty achievable considering their mechanical prowess, However hyperspace is very different. In our own world we have really good examples of uneven scientific power. We can go to the moon, but don’t know what’s at the bottom of the ocean. I would also highlight that in lore, the info we get about the infinite empire is called into question in the old republic. The Jedi master you get the eternity vault quest from will speak to you after and basically say “ wow idk if anything we know is right” lol
That's true he does say that haha
Spot on. Right here at home we developed nuclear weapons before figuring out nuclear power.
@@TK-593 nuclear bomb is simpler device than nuclear reactor.
@@TheShadowSentinel Correct, just like hyperspace bomb is simpler device than hyperdrive motivator.
Yes as wweponizining a technology is easier than using it for power
The descriptions of them in Kotor seemed to heavily imply that at the height of their power, they controlled the entire galaxy. Why this idea was abandoned, I will never understand.
Indeed.
BioWare is full of abandoned epic storyline ideas, especially in the late 2000s era.
I thought what was special about the Rakata was their creation of all the major species. Their #1 role in the lore is as "The Builders", who conquered 500 planets and gave rise to their native species that then all expanded to the rest of the galaxy
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 That idea of them creating all the species comes from swtor though and I hate that idea
@@JacenSolo0 i do aswell
The codex says the infinite empire "eventually encompassed more than five hundred known worlds." There's a lot of wiggle room in that. One could say there's been evidence of Rakatan ruins or technology found on over 500 worlds so far. As of the time of SWTOR, the Rakatans have only been known about for like 300 years, and are still a very ancient and pretty obscure archaeological subject, in a big galaxy. It would take a lot of work to map out every single world conquered by an empire 30,000 years ago, an empire that has only been known to exist for the past 300 years, and ended in large part due to a revolution by the enslaved classes. None of their conquered subjects would have any interest in preserving their memory.
Underrated answer
Between this and the answer directly above it (for me) about crown worlds being counted in the 500 rather than every single colony ever Rakata'd, it's pretty easy to imagine how things just got a little lost to time and translation
It's not even like they were remotely kind slave owners. They were insanely brutal and had fun altering species seemingly just for shits and giggles.
I mean, the 500 planet figure came from dialogue in KotOR with the Rakatan computer in the temple on Rakata Prime: "At its peak the Infinite Empire ruled over 500 planets and was comprised of ten billion Rakata and over a trillion slaves scattered across the galaxy."
Rakatan leader: “What do you mean we conquered only 500 planets?! We have to have to be at 500,000, at least!”
Rakatan record keeper: “Have you tried to keep track of 500 planets? How well do you actually know these planets?”
Leader: “I-…..”
Record keeper: “That’s what I thought.”
It's possible that "500 worlds" is a mistranslation and they meant "500 intelligent species" and it's possible that for every intelligent world they controlled they had 100 or 1,000 other worlds that were considered less important and weren't extensively inhabited. This would put their empire at 50,000 to 500,000 total worlds.
Agh, I wish they went with that... it fits there Empire of slavery.
Another commenter said that they only chose to go after force rich planets, since their entire empire was built on the force. Therefore, their reach could have been much greater, but the planets wouldn’t have been very useful to them, and the newly enslaved races wouldn’t be very helpful in their expansion. Like, it wouldn’t make sense for the Galactic Empire to assert control over planets and systems incapable of supporting life, and it similarly wouldn’t make sense for the Rakatan Infinite Empire to expand to worlds that weren’t rich in the Force. If a planet was only useful to them if it was a force nexus, it makes sense that there would be only about 500 life-sustaining planets within their reach that they deemed useful enough to conquer.
If you consider everything else, the worlds might also refer to something like domains of higher ranking Rakata with everything they controlled being the "World" of that noble.
It would fit what's seen in KotOR with the two factions there on Lehon that were battling there, it could be considered that each had their own "world" as it were
true.
the word "world" in Rakata's language could also mean "species".
500, 50,000 or 500,000 are still really small numbers tho...
With the Dawn of the Jedi series revealing that the Rakata were losing their connection to the force and were essentially consuming the force energy from planets to retain that connection, could they have become the galaxy’s Yuuzhan Vong? Cause enough destruction that they lose their connection to the force and then travel to other galaxies to consume more force energy?
Didn't Dawn of the Jedi add a whole fuck ton of inconsistencies?
No there is an origin story for the Yuuzhan Vong. They couldn't be the Rakatas
@@jbs8267 I’m saying that the Rakata and Vong parallel each other with their destructive tendencies and losing their ability to use the force, not that the Rakata are the Vong.
@@impcit5717 Oh OK sorry I misunderstood
what a brilliant idea! I never saw it that way, but it makes sense
I like the rakatans, they are so cool conceptually. I like to think that when it says they controlled 500 planets it means that only 500 planets were directly overseen by Rakatans/ Rakatan controlled ships. By this I mean the Rakatans had one main ship/station orbiting a world while smaller groups would check on the rest of the planets in the system. We saw the star forge produce droids so maybe only 500 planets were overseen directly by Rakatans while the rest would be overseen by their droid forces. Unless it turns out the droids were not used until Revan and I am willing to admit I could be completely wrong.
Yes 500 controlled planet means fully controlled and turned into core part of their empire there would be more planets they simply think as colony and they didnt build much thing there
The Rakatan Empire to me is one of my favorite factions, next to the all Sith Empires in Star Wars' Expanded Universe's history...and hearing this just makes me sad to know this is how they were treated. Though I think the only reason why they were treated the way they were was so there may have been a reason why the Empire fell and why they're just a legend for the Galaxy by the time of Luke and Palpatine. I could also excuse Soa claiming himself conquering double what the Empire had only due to the fact that they were imprisoned and most likely suffering from delusions and lack of communication. But it is hard to believe that such a powerful empire could do so much and at the same time also, supposedly, not do teleportation through reverse engineering...or something akin to that at all.
I know that my comment is somewhat ramblings but the conclusion is the same as Luke's: I dunno how this happened to a crazy cool empire...but it did.
The Rakatan Empire makes perfect sense in KOTOR I and the Dawn of the Jedi comics.
It’s the Old Republic MMO that doesn’t make sense. None of it.
I don’t consider KOTOR I and II to be in the same timeline as the Old Republic MMO. SW:TOR stands alone, and it is most definitely not what KOTOR III would and should have been.
Correct
A bit of proof for the fact that swtor isn't in the same universe as KOTORs is that you find the remains of the Endar Spire on Taris even though it was seen exploding and being completely obliterated
I always imagine the MMO as an AU of sorts lol
I like swotor, but yeah, I prefer to think of it as a seperate timeline.
İn kotor it says human is bıt slave specie in dawn of jedi there are human slaves
Yep everything makes sense here.
Well the 500 planets you have to remember that only planets that had a really strong connection to the force could be detected by the rakatta. These planets would be like Tattonine before they glassed it, Belsavis. Strong connection to the force like dagobah, odessen, dathomire. Planets that received a strong connection to the force like Dromunnd Kass only happened after force sensitives created it.
I would like to believe that did indeed "skip" planets for one reason or another. The count could just be planets worth their "attention".
I love the Rakata. All the things you've mentioned I would take with the grain of salt because 20,000 standard galactic years is a long long time and things might have been lost in translation (and lost in time) no matter how much the Elders attempted to keep the records pristine. As for the tech, no matter how advanced the tech is there are always glitches.
So, although we know much about the Rakata, mostly through the records kept by the Elders, the information might likely be false.
Elders? We're talking about a galactic society that keeps records, not a primitive tribal society that hasn't invented writing yet.
So basically you're saying plot holes doesn't exist because we're taking a fictional universe so seriously to the point this comment exist
@@Aewon84 the galactic society that keeps records didnt even know that the Rakata exist. The Rakatan Elders tribe were very advanced. In fact, when you go to the Unknown World you see that they are using the exact same technology that the Star Forge is made of.
@@thereservationatdorsia2618 yes.
Like the old ones in 40k. Basically gods of technology and warp magic that create and cultivate entire species (that are themselves capable of creating actual gods) for the lulz, make and use gods like we make hammers, and create pocket realities, but got wiped out by the upstart necrons and the enslaver plague. By the time of 40k they are barely understood even after thousands of years of study and all their tech is incomprehensible to any other than maybe the emperor himself, the necrons(again maybe) and the eldar(since the old ones made them and equipped them for war).
Lol it gets confusing as soon as The Old Republic MMO gets involved 😄. I always enjoyed and found the Rakatan story complete enough in the original Kotor games by themselves
Agreed.
Agreed. SW:TOR is not KOTOR III. It’s best regarded as a separate timeline or alternate universe.
@@timonsolus SWTOR is part of the Disney canon at this point. It has the exact same vibe now, overfocusing on Jedi storylines that aren't very compelling
I don't think anything in Swtor 'confuses' what is already there.
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 Oh feck off, don't call shit "disney canon" just because you dislike it. SWTOR is one of if not the last bit of old EU content still in production...as depressing as it is. Unless disneys does a 180 on their marketing strategy with the whole legends thing, once SWTOR is shut down, it is game over. The old republic is shoved under a rug and all we have is the high republic BS they're inventing because "There were no comic books or novels or anything", as Kathleen Kenendy liked to put it in 2014 when she had the brilliant decision to label all previous content as "invalid"
The Rakata were cool and I love how Lehon looks, but I agree with everything you said. With how dominating of a force they were in their prime, how long the Infinite Empire lasted and with the Star Forge, you really have to question how they controlled so little of the galaxy, relatively speaking.
Bruh... They literally have a machine that makes things from nothing. The only reason other species and empires go to thousands of planets is... Resources. They could just go to a core world in a part of the Galaxy and just build a massive fleet at each core world. They don't need quantity of worlds, they have quality of location and positioning, which is essential even if you don't have unlimited resources. If you do, well you end up completely annihilating any threat on your terms on your battlefield
@@sa-amirel-hayeed699 yet they still made Kashyyyk a farm planet for resources. They also conquered planets to enslave the indigenous population despite creating several species on their own. Their entire goal was total domination of the galaxy by conquering every possible planet in it. They even named their empire the “Infinite Empire,” stating that their goal was infinite expansion.
From what I read it was described it conquered 500 planets rich in the force. There was even a map that showed the majority of the galaxy under the control of the infinite empire. Also after their fall the hyperdrive technology left over to the galaxy were still primitive in comparison to modern star wars technology that it took them almost a generation to travel between star systems.
@@Dre-dc1jh that’s still a lot of planets in between that they skipped over the course of 10,000+ years. They also had access to Kwa Infinity Gates yet weren’t able to reverse engineer them for some reason.
@@yorecf9641 well they were only interested in force rich worlds, that's what fueled their technology so if planets didn't have vast amounts of force sensitives they didn't really have a need or get a benefit from owning them long term. It'll just be a waste of resources. Also they didn't have access to the infinity gates, once the Kwa knew they were drawn to the dark side they destroyed the gates so the rakata wouldn't re-engineer that technology.
I’m not sure I agree. First, in terms of the hyperdrive tech issue, I always understood the problem wasn’t with the drive but with navigation. They didn’t know how to reach new planets without the Force. Keep in mind the Republic found new worlds by sending out scouts on very dangerous long term journeys into the unknown. It’s not incomprehensible to me that a civilization with an alternative wouldn’t want to do that. As for the discrepancy in size with the Esh-Ka, the reason a much bigger empire has an advantage is because of more resources, otherwise it’s a disadvantage forcing military units and supply lines to travel further. And the Star Forge and the Foundry negated the resource advantage. And teleportation on a planet is much, much different than teleporting from one solar system to another
Is it though? I think that's subjective. I think it especially more suspicious when in an era where teleportation is still considered to be a myth due to its advanced nature, that they do have unlimited hyperspace travel
Mayhaps the Rakata had only begun experimenting with teleportation technology before they fell. It's possible that their predecessors had mastered a technique that made teleportation more accessible. It's likely teleportation is believed to be a myth because the scientific understanding of the day makes the research either extremely cost prohibitive or impossible. (Surely there are some fringe scientists in the galaxy who are experimenting with it.)
If you want to go full conspiracy theory with it, maybe the massive hyperdrive industry is suppressing any progress in teleportation technology!
@@100StarWars Except they really don't have unlimited hyperspace travel. If you go by the idea that it was navigation rather than the drive itself, the Republic only does any better because of millennia of work by hyperspace scouts. As far as the other piece, I suppose it might be subjective, but I cannot see situation where teleporting between star systems isn't leagues above teleporting across a planet
@@stars9084 I mean think about it, they control so many planets so if any of them rebel and they have teleporter pads they'd be able to quickly send troops and ships through to quell rebellion. Or they could sneak their way on to a new planet they want to conquer and build a pad or a few in key locations and boom shock in some troops and You've got an invasion. I honestly don't see why they didn't give each of their planets a star forge, have the star forge create another star forge and so on until you got 500 of them things and park them above each of your planets and you have 500 weapons foundries each capable of producing ships of any size to your specifications, they honestly would've been a much bigger threat if they were a bit more tactically inclined.
Since they didn't know how to discover planets without the force, my first goal would've been to make a fleet of sleeper ships and send a bunch of people to start colonies on other planets they'll land on if uninhabited and making them a part of the empire, then I'd decree that 1 out of every 3 ships would be sent to whatever king or leader they had as tribute and to help bolster an empire defense force from other outside forces, after that I'd look into securing resource lines to make stores for emergency stockpiles of non perishable foods I'd also likely have a planet or few dedicated to storage; or asteroids and things of the such, my last construct would be; in star wars fashion, a massive superweapon, but this one capable of opening black holes in the cores of planets.
@@SeviathTheHumanDrago Oh for sure the teleportation would come in useful. That's why they were desperate to get their hands on it. I'm just arguing that even if they could build the tech to teleport across a planet doesn't mean they were anywhere near being able to teleport from one solar system to another.
As for the sleeper ships to find planets, that kind of depends on their priorities. From the comics I read it seemed to me that the Force guiding them was how they not only found new planets but what made them worth taking. And we have no way of knowing how they organized their planets for storage or tactical purposes. And for more Star Forges, at that point it seems kind of a waste to me. Why would they need more than one?
I feel like these inconsistencies could all be solved by having a Republic archeologist say at some point: "The 500 planets number for the Rakatan Empire is a misconceptian btw. It's just that we know of 500 worlds with Rakatan artifacts. Their could easily have been much larger, but we have no idea how much. Also, we don't know how their hyperdrive technology worked and the hypothesis claiming it was limited due to its link to the dark side of the force is disputed among academics, just like so many things about them."
As a student of archeology, I can testify, determining the exact extent of an ancient empire can be very difficult.
The reason why is simple: different writers, often times stories back down when more wroters give their take on something just look at the Clone Wars and how different each media depicts it.
I had this issue as well. My solution is to just disregard the MMO out of my head canon. They treated a lot of characters terribly such as Revan and Meetra so it wasn't the first . The lore we got in Kotor 1 was enough for me. I am happy with Rakata being more of a mystery at that point.
Arrrhhh, I'm fangirling a bit here XD I some times wonder if the reason for them only conquering 500 planets is due to their arrogance and stubbornness, setting their eyes too firmly on the Kwa's gates that they ignored other ways of travel. It would fit their MO.
Hmm, but my problem is they had access to the Kwa teleportation technology anyway on Belsavis, or at least a form of it.
@@100StarWars See it this way, the teleporters on Belsavis can only teleport people from one point to another on the planet and not from one planet to another. Perhaps that was the farthest they could develop this technology to.
@@ximthedespot4673 I agree that's probably what they're going for, although I find it hard to believe that the Rakata had access to the destroyed gates, invented short distance teleportation, and spent time figuring out how to create the star forge, and yet couldn't reverse engineer the kwa technology in that amount of time. They were so perplexed by the teleportation that they decided to create matter out of nothing instead. I can only conclude it was impossible to build the devices because of the dark side or something
Remember, Rakatan tech was purely dark-side based while the Kwa believed in balance between both sides. It’s likely the Rakatan’s dark-side fueled tech was incompatible with the Kwa’s.
The Rakatans are geniunely my favorite Star Wars race. I think all the lore and history that surrounds them is so incredibly fascinating and all of their technology and all the ways its used are super fascinating.
Fantastic video, thought it was super interesting and well-made as always!
I love the Rakata. I always gleefully anticipate the lore dump computer in the Temple of the Ancients basement because I remember how excited I was the first time getting to it and having my questions answered.
I would like to point out that simply controlling 500 worlds doesn't necessarily limit the size of the empire. If the worlds are spread out, I can see the Infinite Empire controlling all the space between those worlds on the map but without actually having a presence anywhere within that space. For all the words that the Galactic Empire controlled, there were probably a lot more within its domain that it didn't because they were unsuitable for life and/or unprofitable for exploitation.
That still leaves a whole lot of other problems and I have no idea why someone decided that 500 is a good number of worlds for a galaxy-level empire to control.
A fair assessment
The writers should have used words like "thousands", "innumerable", or "countless" instead of 500 to describe the scope of the Infinite Empire. In my opinion, dark side-powered hyperdrive isn't a bad idea for them, just make it way over the top and give every Rakatan vessel a 0.1 class hyperdrive to explain the incredible scope. Then turn off their connection to the Force and their entire logistics department dissolves overnight. It works, they just gave a few too many details and accidentally wrote themselves into a pickle by picking hard numbers.
On one hand, I like the idea of the Rakatan infinite empire being obscure, and there history muddled due to how ancient they are. But on the other hand, you make a good point if they're confirmed to have '500' planets in the lore and books etc, when compared to their technology it makes absolutely no sense lol
It depends on how you are counting and the state of the galaxy, if we are talking about a galaxy practicaly empty compared to the one in old republic and then the infinite empire counting only populised planets then it is a population and territory things.
Here’s another thing- one of the theories about the disappearance of the Celestials (the Force Gods responsible for manipulating galactic events and causing the Star Wars) is that following the conquest and eradication of the Kwa by the Rakata, the Rakata subsequently pushed the Celestials out of the galaxy. Canonically this might not be the case, but in some of the Legends lore, including what is present in SWTOR, the Rakata were supposedly so powerful at their peak that they caused the most powerful divine forces in the universe to either hide or literally merge with the Force to avoid genocide.
On top of that, they had access to the technology required to enhance their Hyperdrives. The Kwa literally tried to befriend them and showed them their Infinity Gate technology, which allowed the Kwa to enter a pocket realm formed by the Force one on end, and exit out a similar Infinity Gate all the way across the galaxy. The Rakata messed up their attack against the Kwa though, and instead of seizing the gates, lost them because the Kwa sealed them off and installed giant worms as their guardians. They then also failed to take similar tech from the Gree, who used Hypergates that acted as direct portals to other gates across their empire- gates that are said to still be active in certain parts of the galaxy. The Rakata had the opportunity to expand their power base and literally failed at every conceivable chance. Then they got bested by the Je’daii and the precursors to the Galactic Republic- rebels who fought against the Rakatan slavers and formed a new alliance of worlds, comprised of races that were literally made by or altered by the Rakata and the Celestials before their disappearance.
They make sense! There are so many empires in Star Wars and in our world history, so I think its a good concept. Maybe not making them the beginning of basically everything is a good route to go though.
The only thing they really began was the hyperdrive, most of the rest was the Celestials I believe
If the Romans had the ability to use jetfighters and bombs, they'd have more control of the planet. That is the comparitive complaint.
Hey, the Rakata might be embellishing their stories... Making their threats a greater problem compared to themselves... Making them look greater than they were.
Edit: plus history is lost so Rakata History could still be muddied... (as you have pointed out)
I prefer the KOTOR 2 take on the Rakatans, as evidenced by the description of the Rakatan Band piece of headgear:
"This simple device improves the wearer's ability to perceive the reality of their surroundings. The origin behind the item's name is unknown, but rumor has it that these bands were constructed as a defense against an ancient species of alien deceivers, who made absurd claims of dominance concerning their role in the galaxy. It is said this species of lying primitives went so far as to take credit for almost every major event in galactic history since the discovery of the hyperdrive."
Ahh, you make a good point. I completely missed that, thanks for sharing!
@@100StarWars You're welcome. I played KOTOR 1 and 2 way back when they first came out and always hated the Rakatans, terrible ending to a great game. I thought it was hilarious when in KOTOR 2 they simply dismissed the Rakatans as a bunch of liars. LOL
@@fredrickseiler4492 And that makes everything make a lot more sense, even with Swtor involved, because the Rakata of the Infinite Empire and the modern Rakata who are like them or inheriting their information are going to follow in those footsteps or have inaccurate information because that's what Rakata do :P
change your name to 100% KOTOR
Hey! I have lots of non KOTOR content on my channel :((
@@100StarWars why not 100% geekness? Also next video, origins of star wars curse words
Hehe, unabashedly true.
I missed your videos, glad to finally see a video from you pop up on my notifications
Maybe the idea is their population was never that big so the number of actual “Rakatan” planets, as in planets where Rakatans would actually live, where their culture and society was dominant, wasn’t much more than the stated 500, but if we counted planets that were used for slave populations, industry, resources, stuff like that, that's where you find most of the other planets in the galaxy, it’s just that they didn’t count those, despite the fact they functionally ruled them. You might have had a couple Rakatans around running things, but maybe it was no more than a couple hundred to a planet, maybe less if we consider how advanced they were. Not a perfect solution but it would make it slightly more believable. Of course this doesn't address the hyperdrive thing, but maybe in that case is they only had what the modern day star wars galaxy would consider proper hyperdrives, or perhaps mapped out hyperspace lanes between their core 500 planets, other planets were a bit more difficult for them to get to. What would in theory, by modern star wars standards, take a couple days to reach, for them might have taken weeks or even months, which would explain why'd they never really "settled" on worlds outside of the core 500, it would have been too much of a hassle to get between those worlds and the heartland. So when they "conquer" a world, they just leave enough of an impressions/enough of a presence the local remember to have a tithe ready when the taxman comes calling/send a ship with resources their way every couple months, and know to do whatever the Rakatans say.
Maybe some of the discrepancies could be reconciled by defining what "controlling a planet" meant for the Rakata. During the Republic era "control" over a planet meant inhabiting it and steering the political agendas of its inhabitants into a certain direction, either via diplomacy or military action. However, for the Rakata, "control" over a planet might have literally meant that they were able to manipulate weather patterns, continental shifts, core rotation, magnetic field, the planet's position in the solar system or even in larger portions of the galaxy etc. They could have weaponized the planet's energy output, making it into a mobile military platform, somewhat like the Death Stars or Starkiller Base.
They accomplished this by manipulating the Dark Side of the Force, to which the planets had a strong connection. So, while the Rakata might have had colonized hundreds of thousands of worlds, they "controlled" 500 planets in the way described above.
How is this channel not 100%KOTOR or 100%Revan? LOL love it keep it up
What's important is the friends you make along the way.
Yeah, I never bought into the “they only conquered 500 planets”. Never made sense. In KOTOR, it always seemed like it was most of the galaxy.
Maybe it makes sense if we assume the Rakata didn’t bother with most low technology, low resource planets? Conquest generally only makes sense if there is something valuable to be had there. Technology was far less universal in the galaxy in the era before the foundation of the Republic and before hyperspace travel became common.
Maybe it was more de jure most of the galaxy and defacto a few thousand.
the limitation of their tech requiring the force to use i always thought of as a cultural thing more than anything, like they *could* have developed hyperdrive tech that didn't require the force, but they didn't even make *doors* that didn't require the force (helped deal with all the slave i expect), so when the disease hit they were instantly knocked down to the stone age and collapsed into obscurity.
as for beating force gods and half the empire holders...sounds like some mmo writer was trash and didn't bother to make their bosses' lore consistent with previous media.
Yh I kinda agree tbh
The galaxy was young? The ancient capital of Rome at its apex, had the population of Kansas City.
I use them in my tabletop game. The regenerative technology is "micro-droids," and while I do limit their hyperdrives, I allow them acces to most worlds, just not dead systems.
What if the escar had access to the gate technology that the Kwa had? As for why only control 500 planets, why control a planet when you could control a whole solar system? Like the plan was to build more or smaller star forges and then just drop one on every star and let it do the work so they would not have to do a thing as a long term plan. Then the virus hit and boom they are reduced to little to nothing and the plan is done. If I could build a Star Forge that is how I would take over the galaxy.
I mean if their empire really did have just 500 worlds it aint that infinite
As an example in the 40k universe the Necrons Infinite Empire had 1 billion worlds
My point is that if youre gonna name it the infinite empire make the planet number at least very big
Drinking game: take a shot every time the words "500 planets" is said
Great video!
I have a few possible explanations for these inconsistencies…
1. Perhaps the 500 worlds they allegedly controlled at their height was merely the “core” of the empire - with thousands of smaller worlds and planetoids under their control as well.
2. The possibility exists that they didn’t have an even distribution of tech throughout the empire - it’s no secret that they were plagued with rebellions and civil wars, so perhaps different factions of the empire arose over time and these factions developed new tech (jealously keeping it from rivals). This would explain why one Rakatan world had teleportation tech and others didn’t.
3. It could also be that inconsistencies in the history of the Infinite Empire exist because of corrupted data stored in very old machines - remember the Rakatan droid the player character finds on Dantooine in “Knights of the Old Republic?” It was placed there to inform “the builders” about the Star Forge and yet seemed to know nothing about it? Could it be that this information was simply corrupted and thus destroyed or rendered inaccessible over the years? Now imagine this data corruption occurring in Rakatan tech across its empire after their species came to a sudden end!
I’m not saying that inconsistencies don’t exist for this species - only that there are plausible explanations as to why they exist.
I never understood the appeal of the Rakatans... their whole existence is ridiculous to me. Warp drives that use dark forces energy and are limited to planets with dark force power? That's just silly.
Why is that silly? Shit needs power, the force is a near infinite power source. Using it makes a lot of sense.
It's fun!
@@Julian-pw5mv Yeah, I never associated the force with energy that could be used to power "things". I always thought it was more of a spiritual power.
@@100StarWars Well... I can't argue with that.
I knew you were gonna dig into SOA but you came with more receipts than i thought. Excellent work and you're right. I enjoy the Rakata as a whole, but the inconsistencies are annoying.
People are just ignoring every point I made in the video it seems with these comments xD
@@100StarWars tbf, I've seen you ignore some of these comments very legitimate points.
@@Xeno_Solarus There are over 400 comments on this video. I cannot get to them all.
If I'm being honest I don't actually know how in depth the lore was outside of the original knights of the old republic, and I've never played swtor, but I always assumed the Rakata just controlled the entire galaxy as I believe was referenced in the original knights of the old republic, and always attributed the disconnect between one of the Rakata computers bragging about "over 500 planets" as the writers at the time not really realizing how big the Star Wars universe was at the time the game came out, but I'm pretty sure it is said the Infinite Empire controlled the majority of the galaxy. As for the technology limitations, I'm not sure what kind of lore was created outside of the original Knights of the Old Republic game; so i don't know if any official media ever specified it was a limitation of the hyperdrive technology relying on the dark side, but I always assumed their technology/force melding functioned similarly to how Darth Nihilus was able to effectively fly an entire ship (which had massive damage to all vital systems) using the force in Knights of the Old Republic II, and that it was implied by the geneticist in Knights of the Old Republic 1 that the Rakata losing their force sensitivity is what caused them to lose access to their technology as a whole (not just ship hyperdrives, as even just the barrier for the temple in Knights of the Old Republic 1 couldn't be opened without a force user) which would make sense if the Rakata were controlling/flying their ships in the way Darth Nihilus was in KOTOR II, as if Darth Nihilus were effectively using the force to fly a ship, which was technologically unspaceworthy, and then rapidly lost the ability to interact with the force, the ship would likely have broken apart/went adrift/pulled into a planetary gravity-well.
TL;DR I don't actually know if any media outside of KOTOR/KOTOR II expanded on the lore as to ruin my interpretation of the lore, but with my limited knowledge of the lore from KOTOR/KOTOR II, I always thought
it was always heavily implied the Rakata controlled the majority of the galaxy, and that the bragging of 500+ planets was an arbitrary number pulled by the writers not fully understanding how large the galaxy was in the extended universe of Star Wars as a whole, and that
flying ships purely through will/force was possible due to Darth Nihilus flying a broken wreck of a ship (The Ravager), and that if the Rakata piloted/controlled all their ships/technology in a similar method, then rapid force INsensitivity would likely cause widespread problems for an empire built upon force integration.
great video, things i love about star wars, IG 88, Palpatine, Luke, and the Rakatan.
Your unstating the Rakatta's problems the dark side caused so much in fighting caused civil wars, not just the disease by itself. Also the as far as the hyperdrives everyone had the force at the time they needed to make normal hyperdrives it was too late. I think the could have made them given enough time. But I think they felt it wasn't needed and when they needed it they were to busy fighting to make it.
You totally glossed over the fact, that with their hyperdrive technology they could only hone in on planets that were strong in the force. Which makes total sense overall, because literally ALL their technology depended on the dark side of the force. So I don't quite see the point in this video.
Edit: and about Soa: he only ever said that himself. Pretty sure it's just a figure of speech
I literally... said this in the video?
@@100StarWars nope? Or do you have a timestamp
Simple answer is the number of worlds they were said to control was only the portion of the empire in which the primary population was Rakata, as opposed to the other planets in the empire that they ruled over but were not populated by Rakata. It makes sense for a dominating empire to consider other worlds lesser and thus not include them in a tally.
When you're an arrogant species whose dominion is called the 'infinite empire' - I'm pretty sure you would include you subjugated worlds as part of the tally of worlds you control. But that's just my assessment.
"All of the inconsistencies come from SWTOR."
It seems most of the time issues come from specific writers or media. Makes it easy to just declare one non-canon or canon in broad strokes. Same issue as Labyrinth of Evil v.s. Genndy Clone Wars v.s. TCW Season 7 concerning Anakins and Obis last adventure.
I think it does make some sense, you stated the galactic empire had a million or so worlds, but how many of those worlds actually mattered? Russia has the entirety of siberia, but siberia is kinda useless to them, the majority of those worlds in the galactic empire are probably just some remote settlement, with a couple hundred people living in a small colony, also how many of those million worlds are uninhabitable...
Probably a lot, officially theyre part of the empire, unofficially, a dozen to 0 people live there. For example mandalore by the time of TCW influenced hundreds of systems, meaning mandalore alone influenced thousands of planets, but how many of those planets actually mattered? mandalore probably doesnt have a population over a billion, so the systems under their influence probably have even less...
If you consider the 500 planets as 500 important planets, then its actually kinda impressive, go google a map of the SW galaxy, and youll see that there are only 200 planets max, so if you assume the infinite empire has 500 important civilized planets, they dont seem as non sensical as before
That might be it. They considered their whole empire to be "500 planets" because they didn't even consider the worthless (to them) non-Force Sensitive worlds in their vast territory. So they might legitimately control territory that includes millions of worlds, but they just ignored them and didn't develop them, focusing instead on the 500 worlds that mattered.
Well I guess you could say that these guys were inconsistent mainly because when the MMO Old Republic came out, they just made everything up as they went on. I mean the main thing I like about the Rakatans was the fact that it was thanks to them that we have mostly everything in the Star Wars universe today. If the Old Republic mainly was going through their history in what KOTOR was talking about, then I think it would have the plot holes you were kind of talking about as much.
Rakata's had a skeleton system that spanned the galaxy. The organizations and empires to come only fleshed out the galaxy. (filled in the blank spots)
Rakatans: our goals are beyond your understanding
hahaha
The Rakatan Infinit Empire was the mightyest power back than. If they wouldn't have lost their connection to the force, which every Rakata has had, the empire and the republic never would have risen. Because all of the people of the different planets only have been slaves of the Rakatan Empire. So the Starforge was the apex of the might of the Rakatan but also their Doom, because of it they've lost their connection to the force. And without the force they couldn't control their technology. That's the reason of the downfall of the Rakatan Infinit Empire.
Quality not quantity.
Glad to see they finally figured out teleportation.
Ever since I met them in kotor 1 they have always seemed super interesting to me, i wish they expand their lore in movies series videgames,, but no disney only care about tatooine :(
Still more sensible than the Mickey Skaven trainwreck
It isn't impossible that the Eshka Empire both spanned half the known galaxy and didn't have hyperdrives.
It could be a scenario like in "All Tomorrows" where the Eshka (Star People analogue) spread throughout the known Galaxy with sleeper ships (like early human colonization) and other non-ftl tech, then got their teeth kicked in when they ran into the super advanced Rakata (Qu analogue).
The Rakata might have only colonized the worlds within immediate reach of their hyperdrives (and thereby their supply lines), but look what they could do with just their own star system! The Star Forge gave the *Old Republic* a run for its money, and it was spread throughout the Galaxy like the Eshka supposedly were. It can't be understated just how OP the Star Forge would have been at the time. Thousands of ships, millions of blasters and droids a day would have been *overwhelming* . Combine that with being able to reinforce over 500 planets across the galaxy at any time thanks to hyperdrives and the Rakatans would have been unbeatable.
Plus, having hyperdrives did would not preclude the Rakata from having sleeper ships and other non-ftl travel technology. It's possible this war with the Eshka spanned the Galaxy, and took thousands of years to play out.
To be honest, I think the 500 worlds thing is a result of their history being muddled for thousands of years that they actually don't remember the number. It's also possible that the 500 worlds may be their primary worlds that they were able to properly administrate while the rest of their empire may stretch to thousands or millions of worlds that they controlled but didn't care about too much. Another possibility that someone else mentioned is that the "worlds" they controlled weren't actually planets, but rather 500 species and the usage of "world" may be a mistranslation for the non-Rakatans or their word for it means something different for them.
Because you're right, there's no way that a warlike and technologically advanced empire like the Infinite Empire only controlled 500 planets at their height when they have access to these kinds of technologies. So my head canon will be that the 500 worlds are simply primary worlds in their empire and/or a saying for the amount of species they enslaved. I mean, isn't there a bit in Legends lore saying that the reason humans are so dominant in the galaxy is because the Infinite Empire scattered them all over the place when they were enslaved? How does humanity become the largest species in the galaxy by those means if the Infinite Empire controlled only a few hundred planets?
If memory serves me right, it is stated that the empire "linked 500 force rich worlds", not that it only controlled 500. Also, the fact that they had servitudial races, or slave races, whose planets we visit, should already tell you, that whilest this was not a world inhabited and controlled solely by rakatans, it was one controlled by them.
There is also mention of the Rakatan Empire controlling some worlds of what would later be known as Core Worlds. So they did spread through their half of the galaxy, considering their point of origin, before finding and fighting the esk-ka.
I always saw it as them linking 500 force rich worlds, but each of those worlds was like the capital city of a country, governing over all the slave worlds within the corresponding slave race system.
For the teleportation devises on belsavis: It is literally stated that the databases found during its discovery, state it as "experimental" technology for short range transport, within a node hub.
Also, it does say it is a dangerous version, because it picks you apart to the smallest construction brick, and puts you back together at the destination.
So while they reached "some form" of teleportation, it might not have been as powerful, or universally usable, as the gates the kwa used.
The Old Republic changed retconned a bunch of things, one of the things were the Sith and the Great Hyperspace War that was now of huge galactic scale and there was also the change about the genocide of the Sith, now the jedi and the republic wiped them out instead of they wiping out themselves
I personally think that in the future their empire will be fleshed out more and it will be explained that since they were so technologically advanced, that the stories, myths, and legends about them all mixed together into a bunch of truths, half truths, and downright lies. Even the Star forge might be fleshed out with an explanation. Especially if they really do reboot kotor.
Also great video, love the channel
The Rakata were basically just a convenient plot device.
:((
The thing about the Infinite Empire isn’t that it only conquered a small corner of the galaxy with 500 worlds; it conquered planets all over the galaxy and went after the planets that were particularly strong in the force.
The teleportation thing you mentioned on Belsavis just allows for the teleportation of individuals from one gate on Belsavis to another gate on Belsavis; teleporting fleets of starships to other parts of the galaxy is presumably much different.
The bit about “only 500 planets” feels to me like that’s probably only counting the ones strong in the force, or that they didn’t bother to conquer the ones that weren’t. It’s also probable that most planets just hadn’t been discovered yet since this was when the galaxy was still pretty young.
I’m glad someone made this video. It’s bugged me for years
Holy shit man great video. I was always under the impression the Rakata conquered almost the entire galaxy, turns out I was wayyy off lol
Some people have said that 500 worlds might have meant 500 intelligent species. But tbh I don’t remember anyone ever saying that the Galactic Empire has over a million inhabited planets. Obviously realism has limited relevancy in a fantasy world, but it’s highly unlikely that a galaxy would have that many potentially habitable planets. Playing Kotor hearing 500 planets, especially for an ancient empire sounded very impressive. Watching the movies I always assumed that the Republic was a few hundred planets just looking at the size of the galactic senate. A million planets in one political entity would be practically impossible to keep together, even in an authoritarian or democratic regime.
One thing that you didn't understand about the hyperdrive technology is that you needed charted hyper lanes in order to use it. So it does have sense, they had to go slow and chart the lanes first.
After they encountered the race who had under control half of the galaxy had charted the lanes, so after that they could fast track their expansion.
So from what I know, and I do know enough, you need to have charted lanes, that's why the unknown regions even during the Palpatine wasn't charted, some worlds was usually that was strong in the dark side but you still needed a hyperlane map.
my mind was blown when i first saw these guys playing kotor again. loved the Mythos they introduced and the way it integrated the hyperspace lanes (kinda how bioware used the reapers later with the Relay system).
We could look at this like Tolkien approached Lord of the Rings, asking "who gave us this information about 500 worlds?" perhaps it was a jedi historian from a thousand years ago who was just wrong and its been passed through the history books as fact. Or perhaps it's a mistranslation of an ancient text and it was really 500,000 worlds.
From what I recall the hyperdrive they used was able to find only planets that had a lot of life because it worked through the force. Later another of the Rakatan was quoted as ruling over 1000 planets on his own. The time when the infinite empire was around the amount of space faring societies were few if any. Even if the planets not far away had the potential to allow life to survive, they might not be able to be detected with a rakatan hyperdrive. So they may have truly ruled 500 planets if they categorized it as hyperdrive points. Imagine 1 hyperdrive point, in an area that might have many possible worlds to send their labor to. From what I remember the amount of Rakatans was never ridiculously huge, they fought using slave labor. 500 rakatan controlled planets, countless ones used for labor. and resources.
"Long ago the Rakata ruled all the known galaxy; all species bowed down to us." - Keeper Orsaa
My head cannon is that they conquered 500 civilizations instead of just planets
Darth sidious had knowledge of the Galaxy he conquered, troops that easily betrayed the planets they were on, and access to hyperspace routes and extreme ambition of sidious
For some reason I never stopped to realize how powerful an entire species of force sensitives, and all darkside users, would be. How strong were they with the force? Like super strong or just enough to control their dadkside tech?
"How does a small empire lacking hyperspace batalions somehow become a galactic superpower?"
I'd love to see a live action series about the infinite empire, made by Filoni and Favreau.
Man i LOVE this channel! After rewatching this video I feel like the Eternal Empire took a page from the Rakataans by building a Star Forge of their own. Otherwise I don’t know how they could’ve built their entire fleet.
i always find it funny how star wars uses star trek to make stories
look up the story of the iconian and iconian war
I see what you’re saying, I’ve never looked list them in depth but, it does make SWTOR interesting to play. My work takes up most of my time so I don’t have a lot of time to do the research. However, I’m glad someone does and that someone is you. You explain it we’ll and provide the history, nice job 👍
I was under the impression that rakatan hyperdrives were dependent upon force users for navigation, not function. They hyperspace lanes had not been mapped out yet, so they force users operating the drives functioned similarly to the navigators in the Dune universe. The hyperspace lanes that exist in later eras were all mapped out at sublight speeds over the 20+ thousand years between the fall of the infinite empire and the old republic era
I mean the Infinite Empire wiki entry on Wookiepedia explains that they had 500 planets, but they were spread out over the galaxy, hence why a war with another galaxy spanning species would 'engulf the entire galaxy'.
Their limitation was that the planets needed a connection to the force for their hyperdrives to work. All of sci-fi is filled with species, including future humans, who go down one technological niche which cuts them off from exploring other possibilities.
Head Canon: since the Rakatan Empire happened such a long time ago, they ruled 500 KNOWN planets.
Impressive. Keep doing this kind of videos.
Awesome video as always.
What if the known galaxy only consisted of 1000 planets?
Thanks! I'm not sure that would even be possible
i always thought that record keepers just lost most of the information about their empire when it collapsed and what we see on rakata prime is just scraps left that they could find and put into some kind of order, i just never belived that a small nearly extinct village could amass ALL the infromation about galaxy spamming empire. And from what i seen i think that could explain the 500 planet limit and put rakatan stories in far more logical aproach, but i agree that without some kind of explanation that 500 planet empire fact puts literally everything else we know about them into disarray
Actually there is a really good canonical explanation for the "500" planets. Their hyperdrives uses the force to find worlds, but the hyperdrives could only be used to go to "nexus" worlds. So worlds that are extremely strong with the force. Any planet that is not a nexus for the force can not be traveled to with the rakatan hyper drive.
WOW Great observation! I never really heard all the numbers together like these.
I'd love to get an explanation some day on why they only conquered 500 planets.
Maybe KoTOR had a typo and they meant to write 500 million.
Meanwhile, them being only able to travel to planets which have a dark side nexus on them via their hyperdrives is a very interesting idea which should be focused on more in their appearances.
Okay...you got a good point. I would counter though that we can barely get the facts straight over the course of 5,000 years of our human history. So over the 20k+ year span of the Star Wars galaxy...there seems to be a certain fog that could account for SOME of the inconsistencies...but yeah...you got a point.
Amazing, fascinating and insightful video my friend. Even though I don't know that much about the Rakatans...except they created the Star Forge. My guess is maybe the reason why they didn't conquer many worlds and not because of their limited hyperspace technology...it could be that some of the Rakatan people didn't favor galaxy wide conquest. I know that sounds ridiculous but it could be possible
You’re forgetting one crucial detail: All of the Rakatans were incredibly xenophobic. They saw every other creature ever as completely inferior to them, even the Celestials, who literally challenged them and utterly destroyed them against all odds. The 500 to later 1,000 worlds they are referring to could be the core worlds that they largely inhabited while all the other worlds in the galaxy were used as slaves, as already mentioned that they do. And as for the limited hyperspace travel technologies, that could’ve been the case for only a few hundred years at most since they were a rapidly advancing civilization, and I have no doubt that they have already solved most of its problems by the time they made teleportation pads as pretty much everyone else was using hyperspace travel technology by that time as well. The whole point was that no matter how far all of the other species and civilizations went with their technologies, the Rakata would always be a few steps ahead of them, even for the species that claimed they were fairly close behind. That’s another thing too, they *claimed* that they controlled half the galaxy when there is no proof that they ever did. Rakatans on the other hand had proof *everywhere,* regardless if it was during KOTOR or TOR MMO.
Overall, yes there can be some inconsistencies and guess work, but that’s just simply due to the fact that not all of the Rakatan lore has been ironed out as there is so much history to go through, (Literally at *least* 10,000 years worth) so I think it’s fair to assume that a lot of it is just generalization to help serve the narrative of the actual games in question rather than those times before them. TOR MMO definitely has some inconsistencies and dumb plots elsewhere for sure, but them tapping into the Rakata is surprisingly not one of those since they span sooooo much time. Think about it this way: The time that the Rakata themselves lasted across the whole galaxy as the dominant force is equivalent to how old and long ago the Republic was created by the times of the Skywalker Saga. That’s pretty ancient for such an advanced civilization even by the beginning of the Republic’s standards. Another way to look at it in comparison to real life, as Micheal from Vsauce once put is, is the the Egyptians who made the pyramids were as ancient to the Greeks as the Greeks are as ancient to us. So when they say that they were around for a very long time, they weren’t kidding.
It was said, that the IE only took worlds which are strong in the force, at the end they had controll over near the complete galaxy but the empire was spread a lot with less planets.
I would also blame their short comings based on their very primitive nature. There was nothing about their culture that I've seen that really encouraged outside of the box thinking. So they wouldn't have anyone from their species capable of becoming an Einstein or Musk to revolutionize their technology. And reverting to their primitive ways once they were cut off from the Force is the best example to me. Also I think it was also just a way to create a beginning for The Great War and eventual split between the Jed'aii of Tython. To lead up to The Dark Jedi finding the species known as Sith on Korriban and growing the story from there.
Hot take: The old republic isn't cannon.
Let me help, imagine it's 500k, not 500.
I guess there's a big difference between imprisoning a super powerful force being and taking over hundreds of thousands of worlds.
They where clearly very good a space wizardy and fighting, maybe not so much at governing planets.
You could write in some clever massive terraforming efforts on both sides which turned a Barron galaxy into a more fertile one. Maybe they didn’t count those as “conquered”? Idk