Baha'i Blogcast with Rainn Wilson - Episode 37: Physics and Mysticism with Steven Phelps
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2019
- Hello and welcome to the Baha’i Blogcast with me your host, Rainn Wilson.
In this series of podcasts I interview members of the Baha’i Faith and friends from all over the world about their hearts, and minds, and souls, their spiritual journeys, what they’re interested in, and what makes them tick.
This is a special episode called "Physics and Mysticism", which we filmed on July 7, 2019 in front of a live audience at Foundation Hall at the Baha'i House of Worship in Chicago. It's a conversation with physicist, data scientist, philosopher and translator, Dr. Steven Phelps, who's also been on the Baha'i Blogcast before. We covered a wide range of topics and there were also some great questions from the audience at the end, which I've also included. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did!
To find out more about some of the things we covered in this episode, check out the following links:
* Listen to a talk by Steven Phelps called 'Science, Religion & the Coming Spiritual Revolution': bit.ly/2JVyhyT
* Check out my previous Baha'i Blogcast episode with Dr. Steven Phelps here: bit.ly/32OmMAF
* Read more about Baha'i Houses of Worship here: bit.ly/2Gy3gP8
* We mention the Baha'i World Centre in Israel: bit.ly/2OjFZa8
* Steven mentions Yuval Noah Harari's book 'Sapiens'': amzn.to/2YmFHzb
* We mention writer Reza Aslan: rezaaslan.com/
* Steven refers to Baha'u'llah's early mystical Writings called 'The Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys': bit.ly/2YoZ36p
* We mention 'Flatland' by Edwin A. Abbott: amzn.to/2JTR25D
* Steven mentions this prayer whose translation has yet to be verified:
"O God! Make me a hollow reed from which the pith of self hath been blown, that I may become a clear channel through which Thy love may flow to others."
* Steven quotes from the Writings of the Bab about the soul being the "mode of the Divine self-remembrance". He also quotes the Bab saying there are three keys to happiness: the Golden Rule, always telling the Truth, and never being satisfied until everything in your orbit of influence has reached perfection. Find out more about the Bab here: www.bahai.org/the-bab/ , and read selections from the Writings of the Bab here: bit.ly/2yeHaNm
* Steven refers to several statements from Baha'u'llah such as:
"O SON OF BEING! With the hands of power I made thee and with the fingers of strength I created thee; and within thee have I placed the essence of My light. Be thou content with it and seek naught else, for My work is perfect and My command is binding. Question it not, nor have a doubt thereof."
"Regard man as a mine rich in gems of inestimable value. Education can, alone, cause it to reveal its treasures, and enable mankind to benefit therefrom."
* Steven mentions Baha'u'llah has "recast the whole conception of religion as the principal force impelling the development of consciousness." This statement is from 'One Common Faith' written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice called : bit.ly/2LIJPr7aith/
* The following quote by Abdu'l-Baha is referred to:
"Know thou of a certainty that Love is the secret of God’s holy Dispensation, the manifestation of the All-Merciful, the fountain of spiritual outpourings. Love is heaven’s kindly light, the Holy Spirit’s eternal breath that vivifieth the human soul. Love is the cause of God’s revelation unto man, the vital bond inherent, in accordance with the divine creation, in the realities of things. Love is the one means that ensureth true felicity both in this world and the next. Love is the light that guideth in darkness, the living link that uniteth God with man, that assureth the progress of every illumined soul. Love is the most great law that ruleth this mighty and heavenly cycle, the unique power that bindeth together the divers elements of this material world, the supreme magnetic force that directeth the movements of the spheres in the celestial realms. Love revealeth with unfailing and limitless power the mysteries latent in the universe. Love is the spirit of life unto the adorned body of mankind, the establisher of true civilization in this mortal world, and the shedder of imperishable glory upon every high-aiming race and nation."
* Author Stephen Pinker and his ideas are mentioned: stevenpinker.com/
* Frank Wilczek's book 'A Beautiful Question' is mentioned: amzn.to/2YhZPSP
* We talk about the concept of 'Progressive Revelation': bit.ly/2OldlWg
Be sure to subscribe to the Baha’i Blogcast for more episodes on:
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* Spotify: spoti.fi/2IXRAnb
If you would like to find out more about the Baha'i Faith visit BAHAI.ORG, and for more great Baha'i-inspired content check out BAHAIBLOG.NET: bahaiblog.net/
Thanks for listening!
-Rainn Wilson - เพลง
What a spiritual concept on which to focus and meditate: empty out the self to become the hollow reed through which the Breath of The Divine, through you, can intone the melody of the soul.
Stephen Phelps is one of my favorite Bahá’í scholar
Thank you. Feeding brain and soul.
You're most welcome! Thanks for your message! :)
Thank you. The usefulness of life seems to be able listening and enjoying wonderful content like this.
Thank you so much for this conversation. It covered many areas of thought that I have personally explored and Dr. Phelps was able to put them into words for me.
WOW.. Mind blowing talk. Thanks for this.
You're most welcome!
Was just blown away by the scope of this conversation! Will revisit it many times! Thank you! Loved the respectful interviewer and the very full respectful answers. Any chance of inviting Todd Lawson next time?
Two of my favorite people in the world! Such a joy listening to the conversation:)
We are twins: they are two of my favorite people in the world.
Hayden Knight Weiler : mine too, plus you my friend
@@carlapedretti1646 Awww
@@rhettdiessner Yes!!!
Many thanks for educating me in this amazing and wonderful subject. You two are like two brilliant lights shining in this dark time of our existence. 🙏🏼💐
Thank you so much Sonjel! Yes, imagined that this might be the case. I can't wait to see this published. The words he quotes show a remarkable similarity with some non-dualistic writings. And I always get excited when I find points of resonance and concordance between the Bahai writings and spiritual traditions from the Far East.
Very true. I've also found a great deal of similarities between the Dharmic religions and the Baha'i Faith.
Thank you for a very interesting discussion ! Shalom !
Very nice Topic for us ...
And Thank you for having your time.
Alláh'u'Abhá... Dear..!!
💚❤️💛🌻🌸🌼💐🌺🥰
Absolutely amazing. Thanks!!!
we need more physicists, theoretical physicist, athesit and theist theoretical physicists to hold a discussion with a Bahai physicist; theoretical physicists can talk God and not blush. Please arrange something like this, we want a senior to CHALLENGE the scientific ground for the spritual reality. We are on the verge of unravelling the truth behind heavens, science is in harmony with religion.
Amazing conversation. Thank you
Amazing and brilliant 🙏🏼
Gracias, me encanto la realación que hizo de la ciencia con la parte espiritualidad, y los conceptos de unidad y la luz que cada ser humano tiene en diferentes grados, pero todos somos luz incluso los ateos que nos han llevado a usar mejor la conciencia. Un abrazo enorme desde Ecuador.
Rain, we are early bahais in this very young faith of God 😊
great discussions reflecting on physics and spiritual concepts ..
I enjoyed this exchange ,it makes me aware of my limits ,while sparking the abstract . thank you . We all want a solid resolution to a way forward .
I've just started listening to this. I'm enjoying Rainn Wilson's intro. Blessings to you all. Shawn R., Mo-Mutt Music (and Episcopalian, who appreciates the openness of your faith) #Music4URSpirit
Hi! Thanks for commenting! If you enjoy this, you may also enjoy our podcast which is also hosted by Rainn Wilson. One of the episodes also features Steven Phelps and they delve into other subjects there. If you're interested, you'll find it here: www.bahaiblog.net/2016/08/bahai-blogcast-rainn-wilson-episode-7-steven-phelps/
Thanks for listening!
Thank you for this dialogue!
That was amazing!!!!
Very good and interesting indeed. Allah'u'Abha 🌷
Unique interesting talk with perspective .......
Excellent 💖
What is 'counter intuitive' is actually intuitive.; is not what we believed, wished, hoped, wanted, doubted, but what is there to be known.
“Irreducible diversity of human spiritual perspectives” at 27:49... going to contemplate that for the next 10 years
Thanks.
My 2 favorite subjects. ❤
Very good discussion but I must introduce to all Erfan e Halgheh by Mohammad Ali Taheri .
Unfortunately courses are in Farsi but in the site you will be familiar with the concept and I am sure you will be amazed.
Good news is in future english courses for this new 21 century, persian mysticism will be available.
The difference of erfan e halgheh with other erfans and spiritual courses is the pragmatism even for a beginner , soon every candidate feels the extra ordinaries and sensation of connection with cosmointel ring ( halgheh in farsi )
The worst are full of passionate intensity, while the best lack all conviction " Yeats
The Baha'i faith has he only answer for the hatred and division we see in the United States today unity all religions seen as one religion God bless the BAHAIS
Baháʼí Faith is just another Antichrist religion aka paganism that rejects Jesus Christ of the Bible
Lovely!
Delightful!
The bit about the Bab and happiness includes the golden rule, truth, and the third one about ensuring that everything around you reaches its highest possible station (refinement? Service?) I cannot find this quote from the original writings. Can anyone help?
Beautiful, that is why the word God in farsi is Khoda which means ourseleves, or the part of God that is in everyone of us. Thus the notion that we are all made in God's image. God is praying to Himself❤ Absolute Nothingness. "We all reflecting the same light."
Useful talk- Introduction by Mr. Wilson, who is fascinating, made me ask a few people, that if I introduce someone he is a Jerk or is mean in ... is it a term of respect and endearment... and to stay sit in a chair and not getting up-- is this the new role model.. other than that thanks to all- learnt a lot... from Mr Steven Phelps, must watch it again
aw man I wanted to hear some piano
It's really only a house of worship and monument of worship and not a temple at all, in any sense because it is not a place of any religious rites or rituals.
Me gustaría que hubiera traducción simultánea en español
And another link: For the philosopher Plotinus who was mentioned. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotinus
Happy NAW RUZ 178
Baha'u'llah is the 9th Manifestation of GOD. He was born in 1233 A.H. Now divide 9 by 1233 and hit = and you get 1/137 the fine structure constant in physics!
12 November 1817
One link that was left out in the list above was Karl Jasper's concept of the Axial Age. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_Age
Thank you!
1:02:30 HeartMath Institute
I can't find anything in the writings of the Bab about the soul being the "mode of the Divine self-remembrance" !!!! Help!!!
Hi Adel,
That's a great question. I did a cursory search and I also couldn't find this reference in the currently available translations of the Bab's Writings in English. Knowing Steven worked as an Arabic and Persian translator at the Baha'i World Centre for many years, it may be that this is from a text that has yet to be translated or widely published. I wish I knew more!
- Sonjel
(A Baha'i Blog team member)
Nawruz song for children
Get fed up with religious people saying all athiests have no morals. Lots of religious people have no morals too. We all make a choice in life to be good or bad. Many athiests do 'good works'.
You're absolutely right! Thank you for your comment!
You're right - atheist, humanist isn't to say "no morals", they can do and support good things along with anybody else. Baha'is - including these two - don't equate atheist with having no morals.
@@billwilliann.thompson3036 Shoghi Effendi, Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, said atheism, unbelief, humanism and secularism were "forces of darkness" in the world. Many of the best people I know fall into one or more of those categories.
@@c.a.t.732 We know unbelief is on a continuum - darkness is the absence of light, cold is.. etc. There is no "darkness entity," devil, and no degree of equivalency with God. Organized or outspoken levels of the above are as he wrote above.
It is "seeking ease and comfort" to write off people who are ignorantly non-believers, uninformed, left wandering in "darkness." "Bereft of discernment?" That is a barrier. But otherwise "leave them not to themselves." Instead we now invite also to engage to those you mention to accompany us in progressing toward light.
According to Jordan Peterson, Nietzsche did not casually toss off the death of God but was apparently appalled. His Madman was appalled and ashamed and spoke to us in the tones of God when speaking to Job.
Science heats the body by sex n material facilities and spirituality heats the soul by reciting Quran n following the path of justice to all
Muhammad n the Quran are the two realities to be followed
I was a Baha'i 13 years. I found them to be weirdly anti-mystical and materialistic. Which is bizarre when you consider their founder came out of Sufi mysticism, with mantras, ecstatic states, numerology -- everything "Sufi." Sufism is the mystical side of Islam. Their "Seven Valleys" scripture is basically Sufism. It is loaded with Sufi terms. So is their "Hidden Words." The Baha'i Faith is, in a real way, an attempt at "Sufism writ large." Baha'is, funnily, have no understanding of this.
Speaking of mysticism: To me it was obvious that the Baha'i "Book Of Laws" (Kitab-i-Aqdas) specified that Baha'is say a *mantra.*
They are to say _"Allah'u'abha"_ 95 times daily. This is mantra meditation, and it's absurd to claim it's not. But whenever I'd mention it to Baha'is they would say _"We don't have mantras."_
That seemed strange to me considering that most Hindu lineages employ mantras, also Buddhist paths, and Baha'is are supposedly showing the "oneness of religion." Real bizarre! Why would Baha'is "throw away" mantras when one is literally prescribed in their "Most Holy Book"? And when mantra usage would put Baha'is in close resonance with much of Buddhism and Hinduism?
Yet I remember that big jerk Steven Birkland walked out on a Baha'i musician at "Green Acre" who was teaching Baha'is to say the mantra. Everybody was getting blissed out, even swaying. And Birkland pointedly walked out of the meeting to protest it!
The Hindu scripture called The Bhagavad-Gita is basically like a manual on the ins and outs of meditation. So is the Yoga-Sutra. But Baha'is have no answer for any of the contents, or understanding of it. Because they ignore and even reject their own mystical heritage.
Baha'is are all about "attracting the masses." The normies. So they always want to avoid anything that looks "woo-woo." Baha'is really missed the boat badly in the famous 1970's when many youth were coming into the Faith. They were attracted to "the mystical" and it was common for new Baha'is to pass around malas or "japa beads" used in the east for reciting mantras. They knew. During that time TM (Transcendental Meditation) flourished and it was all about mantra meditation. Likewise Swami Muktananda was making big waves in the USA and attracting thousands. He also was about mantra meditation. It only would have assisted Baha'is in their "growth" ambitions if they had embraced their own mystical content. But materialistic Baha'is, worried about attracting "masses" of normies, rejected all of it. The anecdote about Steven Birkland really epitomizes the stupidity I am describing.
It gets sadder: The Baha'i founder was obviously speaking about mantra meditation (and in particular about the use of his prescribed mantra) when he said this in the Kitab-i-Aqdas:
*_"Rejoice in the joy of My Greatest Name with which hearts are entranced and the minds of those brought near (to God) are attracted._*
_-- Baha'u'llah, Kitab-i-Aqdas, Elder-Miller translation_
Baha'is by and large have zero interest in the significance of that verse.
It's basically saying _"Get blissed-out by the recitation of our Baha'i mantra."_
To become "entranced" by God is the goal of mysticism, and the Hindu traditions literally use the word "trance" sometimes to refer to their hard-won state called "samadhi" in which God is known within, directly and personally. And mantra meditation is one of the anciently tried-and-true methods.
Basically Baha'is reject their own mystical heritage, and their Most Holy Book, and instead try to look like "modern everyman."
_"We Baha'is don't do any woo-woo stuff! We're all 'scientific.' "_ (Too slow to catch on to the fact that the TM people grew their movement to huge proportions by calling mantra meditation "scientific"!)
Boring people. Absurd idiots, really. Baha'is. Likewise, Rainn Wilson. Big know-nothing.
One more note: I chanted the Baha'i mantra early in my Baha'i life even though all the Baha'is were saying to me: _"Oh, the Kitab-i-Aqdas? We westerners are not bound by that yet."_ But I chanted the Baha'i mantra anyway because -- Why not? I was avid and enthusiastic about the religion. After all, it was very easy to do and Baha'u'llah said to do it.
The very first time I chanted the Baha'i mantra I got phenomena that I later found were the signs of a "kundalini awakening." That is something highly relevant and well-understood in most Hindu sects and lineages.
But don't tell any Baha'is about it! It's too woo-woo and might turn off normies!
Idiots. Utterly materialistic, world-focused worldlings.
So old believes are basic truth - where as God is all mighty and created everything also all the natural laws also the visual spiritual forces ! So all the natural laws are God given but the way they believed God used them as some kind of punisment is kind of going out of fashion.
I wrote a blog post on why the Baha'i tenet of progressive revelation is irrational at sheeplywolves.com ; I linked a 22 page document showing that Abraham, Moses and Christ are all connected in the Bible via the biblical covenants. Jesus ushered in the everlasting covenant with His own blood; but Abraham and Moses were integral parts of that unfolding; as God made lesser covenants with them too. Those facts, indicate that the Baha'i tenet of progressive revelation is erroneous.
Also, I am currently writing on the oneness movement, which Baha'is are part of. The movement is mostly pagan, hence I titled my series Paganism. I have spent most of my life studying these things and am writing out of love for Baha'i souls.
Michael. For Bahá'ís Abraham, Moses and Jesus are all connected through the same Convenant made by God with Abraham just like you pointed out.
Also, they all had smaller Convenants within their own Revelations. That's what Saint Paul himself indicates on his interpretation of Christ's Convenant and Moses Convenant.
The Convenant of Jesus was made with His own life not only His death and Ressurection. Because God is the God of the living and not of the Dead. And Jesus explains that the Word, the Law, is a living thing and as all living things has a life and it grows.
Jesus was the Messiah. But the Messiah is a Title and anyone with any name could have been the Christ had God wanted. To put an to God's Revelation knowing that the Christians expect a new Revelation of Christ is at least incoherent with beliefs.
So Michael. The Convenants of Jesus, Moses and Abraham would actually prove the Baha'i point of progressiveness. One simple question would be, had God been able to send us His Messiah since always, why wouldn't He send Him Before Abraham and Moses?
Why wouldn't God give the Ten commandments to Isaac or Abraham? Maybe Adam Himself?
That again proves that the point. You will probably answer me that the Law as necessarily in order to give the Grace and so it states the same condition of different necessities for different times, a total Baha'i belief.
Now, if you think that Oneness is something Pagan we need to discuss a little more.
As far as I remember Paganism has a different trace which is each society has its own gods that are not equal. That's a completely opposite vision of all the Abrahamic religions including the Baha'i Faith. As all of them teach about one God for all humanity and work to bring people together. Just consider Christ Himself as he brought different peoples under one Cause.
One could make a Cause that Christianity is Pagan under the assumption that it comes from Greek and Roman philosophies. Such assumption was made by some critics from the Jewish Faith. So it would be very noble of a Christian not to replicate the same idea without studying the accused religion.
Finally. I will tell one thing personally. You don't need to believe in Bahá'u'lláh or in the Baha'i Faith. That's something Bahá'u'lláh Himself teaches us. The path of knowledge is not a path of imposition or any aggressive manners.
If you don't see Him as a Manifestation of the God of Jesus and Moses. Just take His words as a philosophycal explanation of reality and respect His followers as brothers that are not sheep or children that must be patronized... That's the whole point of the maturity of Humankind.
Much love.
Michael P, Jr. Thank you for your post. Abdu’l Baha, the eldest son of Baha’u’llah, said “The position of Christ was that of absolute perfection; He made his divine perfections shine like the sun upon all believing souls, and the bounties of his light shone and radiated in the reality of men.” I hope that we can both agree with that sentiment...
The Bahi religion it completely defeated by the law of NON CONTRADICTION. Two opposits cannot be true at the same time.
Is science completely defeated as well then? Or are you claiming our body of scientific knowledge to be coherent and not self-contradictory?
Interesting...because I've always heard that light simultaneously exists as both a particle AND a wave.
58:00 well well, what kind of answer is that. it's not even an answer jibberish. For people on earth to even feel the effect of relativity among each other is absolutely nonsense come on?