In my French home-cook culture, you either make stock out of leftovers or trimmings then discard the solid part at the end, or you make stock from normal ingredients that you eat afterwards (together or separately). It's either a zero-waste solution, or a "one stone two hits" solution. And we definitely vary the veggies cut size depending on what we are aiming for. And very often, we don't just want a tasty liquid, we also want the solid parts to still be flavorfull (and you might also not want the texture to be too soft). For example, in a meat stew, you usually want a balance between the stock and the meat/veg bits. If you cut them small, the tastier the stock but bland the cuts. If you really go too far in the cut size, the solid parts will not even remain whole and you will end up with a messy mushy washy liquid that isn't really pleasant. Keeping the cuts fairly sized allows to have a nice tasty stock but still some tasty bits of meat and veggies with a bit of firmness and texture.
All good points, except if my goal is stock, I’m going to use up the flavor in the meat, bones, veg, etc. I always toss them and put fresh ones in the stock after it’s made if I actually want to eat them.
Hey James, I don't know if you will see my comment here, but I'll try : here are 3 techniques I love to make better vegetable stock, inspired by brewing coffee ! A first common technique is to roast your vegetables (like coffee beans) after you've cut them, in order to dry them and concentrate the flavors (try to compare a slice of fresh banana and a slice of dried one), and in order to activate the Maillard reaction (to produce different and rich flavor compound) : they will infuse much faster, with a stronger, fuller and more complex flavor profile. A second technique is what you are pointing out in the video : to cut them fine enough (try with a mandoline) and to saturate the liquid with vegetables (try 2 parts vegetables to 3 parts water) to ensure a maximum surface of infusion. And third technique is to use fermented ingredients for a richer flavor profile (and sometimes for a touch of umami) : some are using miso paste for instance to achieve that (try 1 to 2 tablespoons for a kilo of vegetables), but what if we used a coffee brew to add a bit of punch (never tried it, just had the idea) ? - sorry for my english (I'm a french speaker), like my comment for visibility, and I hope James will see it... I'm a french aspiring chef, I love to experiment, iterate and explore new ideas -
Watching this video, I also immediately thought of using a mandolin then using a juicer. Following along the keeping the cells intact to not have the enzymes get activated argument, while mandolin achieves this it also increases the surface area that we were looking for. I think the list of the directions you mentioned is very complete and I would like to see more people working on its improvements.
And then there's me who freezes their veggie scraps from cooking and makes a big batch of stock whenever the bag gets full. You never get the same flavour twice but it makes great use of stuff that would either get thrown out or composted right away.
THIS. My vegetable stocks are always from leftover vegetable parts. I've never bought ingredients for a stock because they are the result of when I hit maximum storage capacity of leftover bits + I remember to get this stuff in a pot in the morning. I could not tell you what the ratio of anything is much less their weight in grams. It's all just to add flavor to a soup that will end up having other ingredients in it.
This! My wife and I have done this for years. We have turkey, chicken, and beef bones as well as whatever else we peel and chop leftover in bags in our freezer to make stock all the time. We then freeze the stock by the half gallon for big winter stews and such. I always wash my vegetables well so that I can keep the peels to use as well. Way less waist and they often contain the most nutrients.
okay but, what about blending/food processing the scraps!? actually this would be a bit more akin to coffee, since we dont juice out only the liquids/oils from roasted coffee beans, we grind them. next level is somehow finding a way to do an espresso style hot water+pressure extraction on scraps
I don't have a juicer, but make stock every couple of weeks from leftover veg that we freeze. I do have a blender, so I might try blend the veg and run it through a coffee filter to get the pulp out. I foresee a long, slow drawdown...
As a chef currently learning to roast coffee, these are my thoughts: -My first impression is that juicing the raw ingredients is sort of analogous to grinding the green beans before roasting them, (which is certainly an interesting premise!) -Vegetables have a lot more water content locked up inside them at the start of the cooking process than a coffee bean, roasted or otherwise, which affects the flavour extraction process. Water prevents both the Maillard reaction (proteins) and caramelization (sugar) from taking place, you can't brown juice, whereas you can roast a root vegetable before making stock with it and get a lovely enhanced richness of flavour in your final product. - IT IS very very wasteful to use big chunks of meat to make a stock, which is why meaty stocks are typically made with bones, for example a chicken carcass where the remaining bits of meat thereon are too hard to separate, or remnant scraps or gnarly bits you wouldn't want to just eat as is, they break down into a lovely flavourful stock. -As others have pointed out, part of the rationale for leaving the pieces fairly large has to do with the ease of getting them out again at the end. You could of course just make a nice potage as an alternative, where you puree everything together and nothing gets wasted, but trying to strain a puree would be like a paper filter gummed up with finely ground espresso, but on a multi-litre scale. I'm now imagining a truly enormous aeropress, but that's neither here nor there.
you'd use a centrifuge to seperate it, and/or a filter press to extract even more water before disposing of the waste. Same way we process things like milk or human waste on an industrial scale.
I know about the Maillard reaction! In designing evaporation plant for organic waste streams from distillation, yeast etc you have to limit the maximum operating temperature to below ~105 deg C to prevent excessive scaling/fouling. These types of plant process up to 70 tonnes per hour of waste, so cleaning them is a real chore. I am also an amateur cook & make my own chicken stock from a cooked carcass regularly, but I don't want bits of bone in my stock. I'll definitely try chopping up the bits more though, & perhaps adding grated onion instead of chunks.
If you don’t want to waste the left over ground veggies, you can roast them enough so there’s just a little bit of burnt material mixed in there, then blend it to create a veggie gravy. I like to make sure there’s mushrooms in there too for extra umami flavor. The Maillard reaction really fills the gravy with more flavor than you’d expect.
@@janegravelle5223 I just love that ideal I never thought about that cuz I hate throwing away pretty good decent veggies I will do this on the next round
Lol, You write "umami" and "maillard" in the same paragraph... I like you already; I'd do the same thing... 😉 BUT...impo, "peels/fiber/cellulose" is not a good thing to put into a gravy, caramelized or not ... I've tried it, and it just tastes like burnt baby food to me, and gives the sauce a bitter unpleasant taste and texture. Better off throwing those things into the compost heap, to grow more veggies. 👍😁
I find the concept of using whole vegetables for stock interesting. Typically, and the way I was taught by some pretty decent chefs (admittedly Italian ones), that veg stock is typically a way of using the offcuts (ends and skins of onions, tops of celery, ends of carrots, etc i.e. anything you'd usually compost, you can make stock from).
This is what stocks have been for hundreds of years, the remainder of food products like chicken carcasses & wing tips, beef bones, vegetable scraps and creating an additional menu product (soup consomme or aspic) to sell to make money, or an additional ingredient (demiglaze). There are exceptions like noodle shops where the stock is mostly unrelated to the rest of the ingredients though.
basically, and you would absolutely waste your effort and your knife's edge bothering to chop any more than twice on any given vegetable that you're using in stock unless you're making a batch of fresh ramen or pho where the flavor of the stock is the meaning of the whole dish (or you're just drinking it lol) your effort would be much better spent chopping and freezing your vegetables for actual meals and then use the leftover bits after you finish cooking for your stock I keep a frozen bag of vegetable and meat leftovers that I take like once a month and turn into stock lol
I think they are two different ideas of stock for two different purposes. The stock made from scraps is a way to economize food by getting some flavor and nutrition where ordinarily you'd get none since the components would go to waste. Whereas stock made from prime ingredients like whole chickens or full vegetables is a way to maximize flavor. I can see using the "full stock" like this for applications where cost is secondary compared to maximizing flavor, like for holidays or fine dining, while the "scrap stock" is sufficient for most applications and also more economical.
@@ReaperStarcraft The other aspect is that years of cooking with stock have yielded tons of delicious recipes that depend on the stock rather than the vegetables themselves. Occasional home cooks don't have tons of vegetable offcuts because they don't cook often enough to generate them, so stocks made with whole ingredients come in to fill a gap left in a modern world where people are time poor and cook infrequently rather than being short on ingredients.
This general idea is discussed in Kenji Lopez-Alt's book the Food Lab - he discusses for example running chicken parts through a food processor before making stock out of them to speed up the process
@@tomedwick516 I have another option to nominate as an additional collab! Josh of Mythical Kitchen. He already has beef with Gordon Ramsey about grilled cheese recipes so I'm sure he would like to be a part of this and might also have some great ideas of things to apply coffee technique to. Ideally in a few months we could be watching a video where Rhet and Link give the final verdict on stock tried both ways. I would also say that adding some of that ground veggies will add back the color to make them indistinguishable and would be like the difference between orange juice with and without pulp. I would argue that without that you are missing out on much of the added benefits such as the fiber within the pulp. As a side note: who are the few Gordon Ramsey fanboys that disliked the video? That is a crazy ratio about 100 times the likes!
What i learned from ramen making is that it's best to let it simmer over night. The big chunks make it possible to get a clear stock, tiny chunks would make it cloudy or even desintegrate completely. Quite comparable to cold brew! I dont have a juicer but was astonished to see that your juice based soup was clearer! Weighing carrots doesnt make sense because they are tremendously different in flavour density. 1 big carrot from the farmers market packs more than 1kg from the supermarket.
If James ever does a cooking collab with Gordon, I'll be very happy. James: YES BUT HOW MANY GRAMS, GORDON? HOW MANY GRAMS? Meanwhile Gordon: A splash of olive oil. (dumps the whole bottle)
Ramsey seems pretty anti-intellectual and gut-driven. And as an already successful chef, I don't sense the spirit of inquiry in him. So no, I'm not seeing collab chemistry there, 'cept as dueling youtube silverbacks ;~)
How I learned to make stock via TH-cam is to not use perfectly good vegetables but instead scraps and skins that would get thrown away anyways. Then the waste isn’t really waste
That's how I learned to make stock as well. When you make whatever dish involving vegetables, collect the skin and parts you cut off and throw it into a pot of water before throwing it away. Gives you stock for the next week or so and it's always a bit different, depending on what dishes you make.
I tried this. It was excellent. I also boiled the pulp in water separately and found a good amount of flavor still came out. I combined the two into a concentrated stock that I froze. My chickens enjoyed the pulp when all was done. Zero waste. Thank you so much for the idea!
In Poland almost every household is doing "vegetable salad" which is basically finely cubed vegetables from the stock with cubed eggs, apples, corn and mayo. It's on most tables during every possible occasion: birthdays, weddings, eastern etc.
@@ceciliacorson1804 oh, we use potatoes in there too. To be exact it's carrots, potatoes, parsley root, eggs, apples, onion, pickles and peas( I stand by that) . Mix with salt, pepper, mayo and a bit of mustard. Oh and the onion and apples are in my experience very finely diced.
@@IainChalmers Of course it depends. Carrots are vaguely conical, so you could go with the old saying "Conical burrs for conical foods". However if you slice them first it would without a doubt yield more uniform carrot-grounds, wich would then in turn lead to a more repeatable stock flavor-profile. So in my mind I'd say. If you want your veggie-stock perfectly dialed in to your preferences, cut your carrots and go eith flat burrs. For your lazy everyday breakfast stock just use conical burrs and just throw the MFers in whole with peel, stalk and greens. Even though it makes for a more rustic cup, I'm not quite sure if its worth the effort everytime. Besides some people might prefer the more robust, earthy flavors of the whole-ground carrot you can achieve with a conical burr-setup. Thanks for coming to my TED-talk.
This is a really interesting concept. Usually, when I make stock, I use refuse---onion skins and ends, carrot tops and peelings, celery ends, leek bottoms and leaves, etc; I also usually roast them before steeping. I wonder how well this would work with these, usually dryer, portions of vegetables. I am a home chef who regularly makes complex food from scratch and loves trying new ways to be more efficient and reduce food waste. I really appreciate this and all your video.
I bought a coffee scale a year ago based on this channel, which led to consistently good coffee (thank you James) then led to consistently good oatmeal, which then led to me losing 30lbs from simply weighing my food out for a week so I understood what how much I was (over) eating. Long story short... count your grams, it may change your life!
Whenever people ask me about my weight loss I tell them that a scale was the biggest game changer. It’s insane how many servings you really eat when eyeballing it
On a long term diet (at least for me) I average 60 g/day sustainable weight loss, so you do need scales that weigh to +/- 0.05 kg. Body weight day by day varies tremendously due to water balance, digestion etc, but you can definitely see a trend over time...
I think that Sofrito and Mirepoix are more analogous to coffee brewing. Like coffee, the ingredients are very finely minced before flavor is extracted from them. Sofrito and Mirepoix are usually fried until soft, before water is added to extract the flavor. Coffee is roasted, before grinding, but the analogy holds, the "grinding" is just in a different order. Sofrito and Mirepoix extract can hardly be called a "broth", because they are usually quite thick with solids, but if you just boil coffee grounds, that would be thick with solids. Maybe Sofrito or Mirepoix prepped in the usual way, and then filtered, would be the ultimate analogy to coffee. Can't wait to see that experiment.
With the logic that coffe grind size is variable, what you just made was essentially “espresso” stock. i think a much more finely, but not juiced, vegetable base would potentially make a stock that does the job of a “filter coffee.” less intense, smoother, etc. would love to see a comparison of that.
Hey, as someone who makes a lot of stock, theres just some things that i think are missing from the discussion. Vegetable stock recipies are the way they are because when cooking stock you normally simmer it for a very very long period of time, while with coffee the brewing is quite quick. While they’re similar there is a major difference in technique as the cooking time is so wholy different. Flavors are extracted and developed differently and so i don’t think it would be as simple as its made out to be.
Regarding efficiency: that is why I love the veg stock made out of vegetable "scraps" you would usually throw away whilst cooking like carrot peel, onion peel and so on. It is reducing waste and is full of flavor.
This is the big insight for cutting your wastefulness. Just have a few ziplock bags in your freezer for vegetable scraps and animal bones and any other food waste you can use for something else once you have enough of it.
Shandong stock, or Chinese "Consommé" is made using a similar method. After simmering bones and carcasses for 5 hours, pork and chicken is made into a paste (yes, paste; not mince) and added to the stock. The result is that not only is the stock infused with a ridiculous amount of flavor, but the paste also sucks away all the impurities, resulting in the most perfectly clear stock you can make.
I cook my veg for a short time, then blend them to a texture I like with the stock and often keep the pulp in whatever I’m making, unless for some reason I want a clear stock, in which case I strain it. This enables me to be far more frugal, and include additional texture. This blending technique works great for things like Chile or thick soups.
I do the same. You can add lemon juice, creme, Greek yogurt, spring onions, olive oil or other ingredients to improve the flavor. Ramen decoration and finishing techniques work great on such blended soups.
I've wondered this myself and just assumed that chefs use huge chunks to save time and to make it easier to strain out. Also, you should've cooked out the solids from the juiced version as well; you left a lot of flavor on the table by just cooking the juice. If you don't own a juicer, I'd imagine blending vegetables to a pulp and allowing them to sit in their juices for 30min to a hour before cooking down the pulp and straining might produce an interesting hybrid of the techniques shown here.
Straining that pulp will be an ordeal. It clogs every sieve, or you have to use a cheesecloth which is pretty messy too. I’ve done it before and regretted it. It only adds 10% more flavor, so not worth it in my opinion.
@@LidiaChurakova Also, I feel like that pulp is gonna compost better. You want some of the veggie chemical compounds still in there so you're not just enriching the soil with moist fiber.
Love your lateral thinking, James! How about "Roasted Vegetable Broth" for a deeper flavor? We roast coffee beans for a better brew, so why not roasting the veggies for a better broth?
I like the way you think, With mince meat if you brown it first, in small batches then make your tomatoe chutney ,then add it again in , greatly improve s the flavour
And, further, maybe I misunderstood but it seems like he discarded the juiced veg solids described as not very flavorful, which... speaking of unnecessary waste!
One of the biggest differences between the coffee method and the traditional stock method is time. You can simmer a stock for hours, sometimes even days. You need the exposed parts of the bean when you're introducing it to water over the span of possibly minutes, you dont need to worry about that in a stock. 99% of the time you're not going to use raw veg or meats in a stock either, so juicing an almost burnt onion wouldn't be ideal. Also, try not to use meat in stocks to begin with. You use bones. If there's meat on the bones, it's fine, but you'll get more flavor from the meatless bones if one chicken in a stock that three chickens worth of meat and no bones.
Yes, I taste the solids after making a stock (generally several hours cooking) normally fairly tasteless. But maybe juicing uses less energy overall and offers new flavour experiences
I feel I finally understand the people who commented things like ‘I don’t even drink coffee, but if I see James I click’ Not the video i was expecting, but dang if it wasn’t interesting
Adding on to what @BaptisteMarie stated, add the skins from the onions while roasting. Caramalizing the onions in stages with small batches in the pan. Reducing the broth then adding your juice and cooking for another 20 minutes would make for an amazing vegetable broth
Hmmm.U actually gave me a new idea on making stock. Been watching too much Heston and Vincenzo last time. using ur idea and James' why don't I try this? :P Take the measure amount of Sofito (carrots, celery and Onion.) Use a immersion blender and blend them into a fine paste. Saute over low heat until U can see signs of caramelisation. Put them into a vaccum bag. Throw in ice cubes. Volume is the same as what u will put in for making stock. vacuum seal it. And sou vide it for 12 hours at 183°F (83.9°C), Time up. Just filter the mixture. Base on ur description and Jame's findings. I have a feeling that this could make a stock that taste very close to the traditional way. and yet have a way more intensity.
When making stock you usually simmer for much longer, you can make a veggie Soup or just compost or feed the leftover vegetables to your animals if you have them. The reason the size of cuts don’t matter as much as coffee is because the water is at a boil compared to coffee which isn’t. When the veggies/me/bones come to a boil temperature inside they push out the flavors and compounds because of steam pressure buildup inside them.
Love it 🙂 One thing not mentioned in stock making is of course the malliard reaction. Ie the roasting. Different vegetables react different to roasting. But for sure you get a lot more interesting stock if you roast some of the vegetables first. Like the carrots for example. If you make a shellfish stock, the roasting is critical! Another aspect is quality and freshness of the vegetables. Makes a huge difference! Some vegetables really benefit from being organic and more slow growing for example. In some older cook books, there was a reference table converting units into grams ised for the recipes. But overall, cook books in general could be improved A LOT, by better explanations, what’s important to be accurate about, what is not, flavor profiles etc etc.
I would like to have seen a third stock where you included the fibrous material from the juicer put into the stock while it was cooking for comparison purposes.
Hugh F. W. has a veg stock recipe in “River Cottage Veg Everyday” where he grates all the veg before cooking for 20 minutes. Sort of a halfway house between juicing and rough chop. I’ve used it a few times and it does produce a tasty result.
Speaking of cross-pollination as a bartender, I really wish more people cooked with bitters. These simple tinctures can add a lot of deep flavor to non-alcoholic foods and drinks. I put a dash of Angostura into my morning cup of coffee every day, and it’s just tops. Highly suggest chocolate and chili bitters as well. Yes bitters are mostly alcoholic, but they add such a miniscule amount of alcohol to the amount of punchy flavor that you shouldn’t think of them that way.
this is really interesting! please more bitters tips :) what would be some other cool places to add bitters for deeper flavor? particularly in foods :)
If you don't own a juicer, either a food processor or blender will get you similar results. Just be sure to strain it through either a fine mesh sieve or a few layers of cheesecloth (or a coffee filter) to get out any remaining chunks once you're done simmering. Been doing this for a while now with vegetable trimmings from other meals.
You basically are making a consumme, and I am surprised that Chris didn't bring it up. You grind up the item super small, make a float, and then cook. Your result showed this even with it being much clearer, which is a characteristic of consumme.
Everything I looked up seems to be saying that uses egg whites. The stock did remind me of a stock from Toriko though. Which is clear and full of flavour.
I never throw away the veggies from stock. I put my veggies through a food processor for quick cooking. Then once cooked I use an immersion stick to cream them. Only use best looking veggies. I use a bouquet garni of inion peels which I discard at the end.
First thing that came to mind: "have you gone mad?". Then I took a deep breath and settled for "what were you thinking?" You are a genius, Mr. Hoffmann
This really is such a great idea, I tried it and now I am never going back. I also take the leftover veggie fibers and add it to my pressure cooker when I make beans so there is no waste. 10/10 vid. Cheers!
Chef here, there are some very important things for good vege stock the main one being the ratio of water to vegetable weight of which the golden ratio is 3 parts water weight to 2 parts vegetable weight. If flavour is all you care about and not the clarity of the stock then on top of that you will want to roast your vegetable scraps in the oven before turning into stock, the chef in this video even talked about that causing the maillard reaction. On top of that I'd advise using some konbu seaweed and shiitake mushrooms and a paste mix of miso and tomato. As to what vegetables you use it does make a difference but the best thing is often diversity, a good base of onion, celery and carrot is a good start but anything from garlic, fennel, peppers (non-spicy), beetroot and many others. Typically you just want to use whatever scraps you've amassed over a few days including even the onion skins.
Absolutely agreed! Specific, standardised measurements offer better consistency than saying "a few", or "a teaspoon" and allows for reproduction and scaling. Only issue I've come across is the parsing of ingredients lists. 1kg onions, diced will give a different yield than 1kg diced onions. All that skin, the root and the tip of the onion means you're either working with less than 1kg by the end of it, or starting with more and stopping when you get there. I would suggest, for anyone who has a juicer and wants to give this a try, roast the vegetables for 20min before juicing to get the maillard reaction flavours as well as the additional results that Mr Hoffman's accomplished.
In food. People don't want an accurate recipe. They want an easily replicable recipe but you can't get more easy than 6 carrots. People don't care if it comes out different to last time, they only make it twice a year and it's delicious whether they are big carrots or small.
It seems completely logical and I will be trying this for sure. I graduated from the Culinary Institute of America (CIA) 16 years ago and there was a couple of people that chatted about this but I never saw it executed and I never heard of it again for the last 16 years, your work and thoughts on this are spot on. It seems so simple the relationships about surface area and the intensity of flavors. You have inspired me sir! Well done!
Beer brewing ! Please look into it, it should interest you. The base material is malt (germinated grains) and water. The malt has to be ground. During the process, ground malt is mashed into warm water in order to let enzymes saccharify the starch, and let these glucides diffuse into the water. the grain mass is strained from the mash, and behold, rinced (sparged). This phase is effectively a percolation, much like a pour over. The goal is to create a sweet juice, called wort, that yeast will feed on, ferment, making beer (the brewer prepares the wort, the yeast makes the beer). The mashing process have at least two aspects in common with making coffee: the grinding of the matrix, and the extraction of its soluble content (often by two different extraction means for a batch). Oh and also water composition. a central subject for a very long time in beer brewing. Oh again, there are very minimalist solutions to brew beer in your kitchen, anyone reading this comment, don't be afraid and brew at home !
Because his books for the average home =/= his books for other chefs. Pick up one of his professional books and you'll find 10 veggie stock recipes for the 10 recipies in the book that call for veggie stock, and they will be insanely precise - to the size of dice for each vegetable, to the time they are added during cooking to the length of cooking. Even the variety of each vegetable will be specified as will the time of year it was harvested and growing conditions. All specific to one particular recipe. But most home cooks won't do that when they want to whip up dinner, they want to grab 6 carrots from a bag they purchased from the Carrots shelf of the supermarket and get something that tastes nice, but not be cooking all day, and spending a fortune the day before, trawling suppliers for the exact right vegetable to get something nicer.
Because cooking is supposed to be fun and using grams is only necessary with pastry. It's like a photographer complaining the painting not being sharp enough.
@@DarkAngelEU But if the ratios are so important, so should the measurements be. It's not that out there for homes to have scales. Could even compromise and say 6 carrots (360g)
@@henrywiltcher Bro, tons of people can't even cook an egg. How are you going to release a general cook book made for the most amount of people if everything is precisely measured? Think about it. If from there you're interested in cooking you have a base to work off of and now can start making your own stocks based off flavors you like. This shits not supposed to be a bible, its something to learn then work from. And it is out there that homes have scales, most people don't.
@@henrywiltcher Thing is, the ratios aren't that important at the end of the day. If you're off by a decent amount of weight you'll still end up with a good stock. It won't be as consistent, which is bad for professional kitchens, but it will still be very tasty, which is often more than good enough for someone infrequently making stock.
So happy about this video. I once had a hissy fit in my grocery shop because none of the carrots were within 9grams of each other and I was making stock.
So, a couple things about this. A lot of people, and often even restaurants, make stock from vegetable scraps. For example, I save ends of onions, celery, and whatever other veggies that are not too strongly flavored in a bag in my freezer until I get a chance, and enough, for stock. Also, meat stocks are often made with bones, not actual meat, unless it is inedible pieces. The juicing also cuts out the use of tomato paste common with beef stock. I think the juicing is interesting and might be useful, maybe for a cold soup like gazpacho? Probably other uses too, but I don't think it can replace cooking a stock, and I don't know that it is quite the same as a stock.
You missed the key point! If you juice the vegetable, its soup 😂😂😂 For real though, the vegetables get fully extracted *anyway* due to the amount of time spent boiling, so it doesnt matter what size they are - we keep them chunky to ease in getting them back out during straining :)
Except they don't, that was the point of tasting the carrot from the traditional stock. It was still full of flavour so it clearly hadn't been fully extracted
@@etymology3 only because 20 minutes is not early enough time to boil them. That was the problem with this experiment. When I make chicken stock for example , i boil for at least 4 hours
@@h3yn0w Yeah I was shocked to hear Gordon wasn't recommending at least an hour. But the recipe might also have been from his 'fast' meals angle where he writes knowing people want to be eating in 30 min or so. I'd like to see a version where everything get's cubed to like 1-2 cm and test that way. Also not cooking off the wine was a bit weird imo too. I'd say it would be worth doing a 20 min roast at ~350-450F on the finely diced vege (minus garlic). Cook the halfed garlic in some olive oil and until lightly browned and deglaze with the wine for 3-4 min and add the water and juice the roasted vege (minus herbs). Throw the juice into the stock and add the herbs and simmer for 5-8 more min. The comparison would be finely diced and roasted and follow all the previous steps but instead of juicing add the roasted vege and simmer for an hour or so.
I like James Hoffmann's emphasis on reducing food waste, of course he is not the only one pushing for this movement. Many of the traditional recipes seem to be developed by chefs of noble people and the elite in the 19th century, they wouldn't need to worry too much about waste as long as the flavours were there. If you go back 150 years or more the common people didn't really worry too much about the flavor, but rather how to make their food edible and how to preserve food stuff. We're all basicly eating like kings these days (in the developed world).
Actually no. In history they made stock from all the off cuts of veggies/ meet as a way to get nutrition out of waste. The idea of using beautiful new veggies is a modern idea because we don't want to eat waste nor save our waste until we have enough to make stock. My grandma kept a Tupperware in the freezer to add her offcuts too for preservation until she had enough for stock. In history households were huge between the families and the servants. So there was lots off off cuts available all the time for stock making that isn't readily available today.
As a long time home cook with a history in the food industry I think you have some good points and some off points. Like your friend said there is a lot more to factor in then just surface area, Mialiar reaction, carmilization, enzyme reactions and so much more. The very short cooking time of the recipe you used is extraordinarily short and not something I have personally seen before in any vegetable stock. Typically 40 minutes for a vegetable stock is a good length. The idea of juicing would be good for very basic very plain vegetable stocks. Cutting things smaller would work for the more complex more flavorful roasted/carmilized stocks except when it comes to vegetables that are very enzyme heavy. This is something that deserves exploration and experimentation. I do feel you when it comes to the measurements just remember "cooking is an art baking is a science". Science you get precise measures, cooking you get "this much... about" 😉
Well, we all knew that two Aeropress videos in a row was a lungo shot. We just have to let James take stock so that he doesn't over extract the Aeropress videos. James is just brewing over the results from the last video. He's just giving us a slow drip feed of content so that there's no channeling in the Aeropress videos. We wouldn't want to sour our experiences with under extracted content.
Sometimes we steep vegetables like tea. I.e. when we want a very fresh, intense carrot broth, we peel it into thin ribbons, pour hot water over it to barely cover, cover and let it sit for 45 mins. It's really nice for using up scraps like carrot skins. Along the same vein, peeled sunchokes can be roasted with a little bit of tomato paste until very dark brown, steeped like a tea again, and then blended with xanthan for a really good vegan sunchoke jus. There are also cold steeped stocks, and those definitely do rely on exposure of surface area. The concept that you're talking about does exist in seafood soups (i.e. lobster bisques where the shells are blitzed to maximize surface area as well) or in consommes (where the meat is ground to expose surface area). We used to do an apple, seaweed broth in one place where we'd blitz, blast freeze, and let the pectin clarify the juice as it seeped through a cheese cloth and thawed, and the concept is definitely applicable to gelatin clarifying other ingredient juices, where again you'd want to maximize surface area. I think the thing is that these techniques aren't common in most restaurants because they're labour intensive, but you definitely see them somewhat commonly at higher-end esp. Michelin restaurants. I'm surprised that Chris Young didn't mention any of this.
I was expecting a video of James making stock from coffee! Still, I'd love to see Gordon's reaction during a busy meal service when James starting asks him how big a carrot is.
I get where you are coming from. I love those things, too! Creamy, sugary flavors are also used to successfully disguise poorly brewed coffee. Take away the chocolate coating from the coffee bean, and the flavor probably won’t be as appealing.
I did a test where I held a chocolate covered bean in my mouth and dissolved the chocolate and then I ate the bean. It was terrible without the chocolate. It was not delicious ;)
@@andrewzach1921 I forgot I’m a PTC non taster, so there’s a whole range of bitter flavors I don’t even taste. I don’t much care for the acidity of lighter roast coffees but I can straight up snack on darker roast beans even without the chocolate. Also, having a prolonged sweetness in your mouth probably sensitized you to the bitterness further by overstimulating your sense of sweet. A much better way to have done that test would have been to take a normal coffee bean and eaten it. Can’t very well call it a test if you’re not controlling for anything that might screw up the results ;)
What you stated about creating vegetable surface area is critical. It's likened to chewing food slowly and many times to create more surface area for proper digestion. Carrots cut on a bias expose more surface area than in rounds and steam faster. Thank you for sharing your expertise!
I think if you're really trying to extract all the flavor to make the stock you should also add the pulp and extract all the other things like collagen with the water and heat like brewing and then pass it through a sieve or a coffee filter and then try it
When I can bother to make the time, I'll take bones from a whole chicken, along with whatever veg I have to hand, and make a stock. But I'd always chop the veg to a small dice with the same basic chefs knife I used for most things. Its a moments work to turn almost anything into dice or small cubes. And little wash up vs. my juicer (hardly ever used) or fancy machine with a range of attachments and 5 or so slicing and grating plates (too much pain to wash, so it too sees little use). Summary: a good knife, a large pot, an hour or 2, and you have lots and lots of yummy stock. If you drink some from a cup and its yummy, its good stock. If you can't bare to drink it, then little point in saving it to add to something another day. Then I freeze it in multiple 400 ml or so pottles. A few hours in the fridge to get nice and cold, and next time I'm near the fridge, throw all but one into the freezer. The one left becomes a meal later that day. And so many options you can use a nice chicken/veg stock. Polenta is one of many many options. (Cutting a carrot into 3 large chunks has always seemed really dumb, if you want the stuff inside to get out and become part of your stock)
That sounds amazing! Do you reuse bottles or have a preferred bottle? I've only ever reused soda bottles to freeze plain water (to fill space for energy savings, keep food frozen in power outages, and as instant freeze blocks for my travel cooler).
@@o0Avalon0o I freeze in a pottle - a plastic container with a lid. Can be new, or a reuse one well washed out and clean, so food won't spoil. I would never freeze in glass if that what you think I was saying. Too much risk of water/ice expanding and breaking it. Maybe not a common word in some locations. But here in New Zealand, "pottle" is a common name most people maybe know. Sorry if I confused you on that.
@@jimwithheld7217Thank you for the explanation. I just thought Pottle was a brand I had never heard of and maybe I should purchase it but it seems I was incorrect. Your first comment was also very helpful, I have turkey bones and vegetables so I'm excited to make some fresh stock.
Using grams for things like carrots is very much like writing down a recipe for filtered coffee that's just the weight of the coffee needed, the precise grind size, and the water ratio. The variance in the coffee itself and other factors unaccounted for will lead to many people having bad results and no idea why that happened, that's why you give people rough guidelines and teach them how to adjust all the variables themselves. By not always using precise measurements where they're not needed, recipes force you to develop skills necessary to deal with the real world variance in ingredients and other factors and to be able to use your best judgement and adjust for that. People often tend to follow recipes very mechanically and using precise measurements for things that don't always taste the same and which don't easily divide into grams without ending up with potential waste can just make everything more difficult for novice cooks who don't trust themselves over what the recipe says.
I think it's also more of an impact in coffee - that is, a small difference in grams of coffee will have a bigger impact on flavor than what would happen with carrots in a stock or something. The impact is just smaller there. And also, people don't tend to make stock everyday. So instead of cutting up half a carrot and finding a use for it elsewhere, it's easier to toss in the whole thing (if working from whole veggies and not scraps, obviously)
I make stock a bit differently than others. I take whatever bones I have, and clean vegetable ends from previous cooking, and store them all in the freezer in a large ziptop bag until the bag is full. Often this includes raw or cooked meat bones and meat trimmings, onion tops and tails, carrot ends, leak leaves, herb stems, fennel stems, etc. Whatever veg I've had recently, basically. When the time comes to make the stock I roast the contents of the bag from freezer on a really high setting until they are defrosted and beginning to brown. This then goes into my large slow cooker along with a couple table spoons of whole pepper corns, 2 bay leaves, 1 star anise, a knob of ginger, a piece of fresh turmeric, about a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar, 1 dried chili (usually I have kashmiri chili on hand so I use that but others work too), and whatever else laying around my kitchen that could add flavour (sometimes dried herbs or other spices). I also add a little salt but that's not needed. This then cooks on low in the slow cooker for 24-36 hours. The stock that comes from this is nothing like I've ever been able to buy, it's so great I can drink it straight with out even making it into soup. This really extracts everything of value out of the stock's constituents and even the bones are easily broken with my fingers by the end of cooking. Any collagen from the bones is completely dissolved at that point too, and the vegetables colour is usually gone or close to it.
The thing is that a vegetable stock isn't supposed to be sharp or pungent. It's supposed to be mellow in flavor of umami, saltiness and with a taste closer to food than to water because of it's heavier body. This allows it to be a medium or substrate to allow it to linger the other flavors that you are incorporating in your recipe such as other ingredients and spices. Unlike Coffee, almost no one has vegetable stock on its own. Stock is a tool in executing a tasty recipe. It allows you to add character to your recipe when more liquid is needed but where water would quite simply dilute your efforts. The combinations of various vegetables in a stock in a recipe helps to synthesize your ingredients and spices into a more holistic whole whereas the extraction of coffee beans is just about the antithesis of that. By the way, I loved your idea about cross pollination of thinking. Love it!
what if you were to also take the ground up remains from juicing, and add that to the stock while it's boiling, tied up in a cheesecloth so it's easily removable? I think that would get you closer to the color and mouthfeel of stock from whole veggies. I don't have a juicer, otherwise I'd try this.
Very interesting. I have been making vegetable stock for about a year using food scraps as a zero waste technique. Every time I slice an onion or peel a potato, I save the peels in a little bag in the freezer. If I have some carrots that are getting limp, I save the in the bag in the freezer. Then, at the end of the month, I take the freezer bag and boil it for a few minutes in loads of water and some salt and seasonings, fresh herbs. Then I let it simmer on low heat for hours. I also turn off the hob and just let the pot sit there, absorbing all the flavour. At the end of the day I go and run it through a siv and the colour is usually very brown/dark brown. The thing that gives it the most flavour are the onion and garlic peels! Those should not go in the bin at all. Traditional stock recipes were all about taking the most flavour and nutrition out of food scraps, during times when people didn't waste anything. Taking the information from this video, I'll try juicing or at least finely slicing all the stock ingredients before they go in the pot next time.
As a chef who likes these kind of experiments i would have fried the pulp from the juicing on medium heat till i got golden brown and used it in the stock. The pulp on its own maybe dont taste like much but when you fry it deep flavours would come out. When i make veg stock i chop everything very fine and i start to fry some of the vegetables that i like to get a pretty dark colurs as i chop the others. Kind of creating multi layers of flavours with the herbs added last when the boiling is done and it cools down. It sounds kinda complicated but it makes sense both in theory and practice
"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" Vegetables are boiled for much longer time, so the water penetrates all the way. Secondly, the stock making is not only about extraction, but also transformation of compounds on top of filling water with nutrients. Plus, as you noticed, vegetables themself are eatable and therefore can make into some other dish if not left as a part of the soup. Additionally I want you to think of how much of nutrients is wasted to the juicer and oxidized/degraded in the process before boiling.
Most juicer cookbooks contain a ton of vegetable soup recipes, including clear stocks. You can get a lot of tips from people in the juicing community who make soups like these. The raw food community almost exclusively uses juiced veggies for clear stocks. Many old time recipes use sieving, essentially juicing and filtering the vegetables after they are soft and cooked and broken down which is even more efficient. Lots of fun research ahead now that you are starting down these paths.
In my French home-cook culture, you either make stock out of leftovers or trimmings then discard the solid part at the end, or you make stock from normal ingredients that you eat afterwards (together or separately). It's either a zero-waste solution, or a "one stone two hits" solution. And we definitely vary the veggies cut size depending on what we are aiming for. And very often, we don't just want a tasty liquid, we also want the solid parts to still be flavorfull (and you might also not want the texture to be too soft). For example, in a meat stew, you usually want a balance between the stock and the meat/veg bits. If you cut them small, the tastier the stock but bland the cuts. If you really go too far in the cut size, the solid parts will not even remain whole and you will end up with a messy mushy washy liquid that isn't really pleasant. Keeping the cuts fairly sized allows to have a nice tasty stock but still some tasty bits of meat and veggies with a bit of firmness and texture.
All good points, except if my goal is stock, I’m going to use up the flavor in the meat, bones, veg, etc. I always toss them and put fresh ones in the stock after it’s made if I actually want to eat them.
@@jvallas this^
The materials used to make stock should be devoid of almost all nutritional value
This ^
Italian here, if my nonna saw me throw away the solid part of the stock she would disown me
@@XDinky I get that. I have trouble tossing food. But when it’s lost all taste, it’s more like throwing away old cardboard.
W-what... It's not like cardboard, you csn just mince your meat and vegs and make some meatballs with some spices, eggs, tomato sauce, whatever!
"That happens, I'm a normal person, I don't think that's weird," James said to himself, reassuringly.
He's not weird, he's just briping
@@davidmarshall2399 Thank you
😅😅😅
As we all watch a coffee brewer make stock.
Hey James, I don't know if you will see my comment here, but I'll try : here are 3 techniques I love to make better vegetable stock, inspired by brewing coffee ! A first common technique is to roast your vegetables (like coffee beans) after you've cut them, in order to dry them and concentrate the flavors (try to compare a slice of fresh banana and a slice of dried one), and in order to activate the Maillard reaction (to produce different and rich flavor compound) : they will infuse much faster, with a stronger, fuller and more complex flavor profile. A second technique is what you are pointing out in the video : to cut them fine enough (try with a mandoline) and to saturate the liquid with vegetables (try 2 parts vegetables to 3 parts water) to ensure a maximum surface of infusion. And third technique is to use fermented ingredients for a richer flavor profile (and sometimes for a touch of umami) : some are using miso paste for instance to achieve that (try 1 to 2 tablespoons for a kilo of vegetables), but what if we used a coffee brew to add a bit of punch (never tried it, just had the idea) ?
- sorry for my english (I'm a french speaker), like my comment for visibility, and I hope James will see it... I'm a french aspiring chef, I love to experiment, iterate and explore new ideas -
🙄🙄
Your English is perfect :)
Bothered me greatly that James does not even mention roasting the vegetables once in the video! Splendid comment!
Watching this video, I also immediately thought of using a mandolin then using a juicer. Following along the keeping the cells intact to not have the enzymes get activated argument, while mandolin achieves this it also increases the surface area that we were looking for.
I think the list of the directions you mentioned is very complete and I would like to see more people working on its improvements.
@@muffinberg7960 spanish speaker here. To me a mandolin is a guitar like string musical instrument. What is a mandolin in the kitchen? :P
5:43 "Give me the grams, give me the grams, Gordon" would make a perfect meme/GIF
The highlight
With the Always Sunny music and text saying "James orders drugs from Gordon Ramsay"
Jimmy "Gimme the grams" Hoffman is a 40's gangster name
I was about to say, that would fit well on a t-shirt.
Throwing shade at Gordon is my kinda video, and I'm here for all of it.
James swinging carrots around & getting mad at Gordon Ramsey made my day
Yes! I love the angry gesturing with carrots!
I'm with James, I want everything in grams, these non-units are useless.
H O W B I G I S A C A R R O T G O R D O N
@@JohannesSchr I want this on a t shirt 🤣
@@Caspian1234 “give me the grams Ramsey” would be a great slogan or tshirt
And then there's me who freezes their veggie scraps from cooking and makes a big batch of stock whenever the bag gets full. You never get the same flavour twice but it makes great use of stuff that would either get thrown out or composted right away.
THIS. My vegetable stocks are always from leftover vegetable parts. I've never bought ingredients for a stock because they are the result of when I hit maximum storage capacity of leftover bits + I remember to get this stuff in a pot in the morning. I could not tell you what the ratio of anything is much less their weight in grams. It's all just to add flavor to a soup that will end up having other ingredients in it.
Same! Also bags of meat offcuts and bones. 👍
This! My wife and I have done this for years. We have turkey, chicken, and beef bones as well as whatever else we peel and chop leftover in bags in our freezer to make stock all the time. We then freeze the stock by the half gallon for big winter stews and such. I always wash my vegetables well so that I can keep the peels to use as well. Way less waist and they often contain the most nutrients.
i thought this was the only way people made stock
okay but, what about blending/food processing the scraps!? actually this would be a bit more akin to coffee, since we dont juice out only the liquids/oils from roasted coffee beans, we grind them. next level is somehow finding a way to do an espresso style hot water+pressure extraction on scraps
I just imagine james grinding carrots into a paste and putting them in a v60
I'm kinda disappointed he didn't
I don't have a juicer, but make stock every couple of weeks from leftover veg that we freeze. I do have a blender, so I might try blend the veg and run it through a coffee filter to get the pulp out. I foresee a long, slow drawdown...
Now I want him to make carrot espresso.
@@j2a9c8k7 Use a large cloth filter, and if it gets too slow, just press with your hands and you should get something.
@@gabrielhidasy I think you're right. Like how you'd make DIY oat milk.
As a chef currently learning to roast coffee, these are my thoughts:
-My first impression is that juicing the raw ingredients is sort of analogous to grinding the green beans before roasting them, (which is certainly an interesting premise!)
-Vegetables have a lot more water content locked up inside them at the start of the cooking process than a coffee bean, roasted or otherwise, which affects the flavour extraction process. Water prevents both the Maillard reaction (proteins) and caramelization (sugar) from taking place, you can't brown juice, whereas you can roast a root vegetable before making stock with it and get a lovely enhanced richness of flavour in your final product.
- IT IS very very wasteful to use big chunks of meat to make a stock, which is why meaty stocks are typically made with bones, for example a chicken carcass where the remaining bits of meat thereon are too hard to separate, or remnant scraps or gnarly bits you wouldn't want to just eat as is, they break down into a lovely flavourful stock.
-As others have pointed out, part of the rationale for leaving the pieces fairly large has to do with the ease of getting them out again at the end. You could of course just make a nice potage as an alternative, where you puree everything together and nothing gets wasted, but trying to strain a puree would be like a paper filter gummed up with finely ground espresso, but on a multi-litre scale. I'm now imagining a truly enormous aeropress, but that's neither here nor there.
you'd use a centrifuge to seperate it, and/or a filter press to extract even more water before disposing of the waste. Same way we process things like milk or human waste on an industrial scale.
TH-cam commenters: Where’s our Aeropress carrot recipe James???
I know about the Maillard reaction! In designing evaporation plant for organic waste streams from distillation, yeast etc you have to limit the maximum operating temperature to below ~105 deg C to prevent excessive scaling/fouling. These types of plant process up to 70 tonnes per hour of waste, so cleaning them is a real chore. I am also an amateur cook & make my own chicken stock from a cooked carcass regularly, but I don't want bits of bone in my stock. I'll definitely try chopping up the bits more though, & perhaps adding grated onion instead of chunks.
You could sear the vegetables before juicing them, get some caramel notes in the mix.
a really interesting experiment, to grind before roasting - have you tried?
If you don’t want to waste the left over ground veggies, you can roast them enough so there’s just a little bit of burnt material mixed in there, then blend it to create a veggie gravy. I like to make sure there’s mushrooms in there too for extra umami flavor. The Maillard reaction really fills the gravy with more flavor than you’d expect.
I’m so glad that I read your comment! I’m going to try this soon. I think it’s opened up a whole world of flavorful recipes I never knew existed.
Now if only I can force myself to be patient enough to do it!
I started doing this a few years ago. It makes a notable difference.
@@janegravelle5223 I just love that ideal I never thought about that cuz I hate throwing away pretty good decent veggies I will do this on the next round
Lol, You write "umami" and "maillard" in the same paragraph... I like you already; I'd do the same thing... 😉
BUT...impo, "peels/fiber/cellulose" is not a good thing to put into a gravy, caramelized or not ... I've tried it, and it just tastes like burnt baby food to me, and gives the sauce a bitter unpleasant taste and texture. Better off throwing those things into the compost heap, to grow more veggies. 👍😁
Idk if I'm alone in this, but the "I hope you have a great day" at the end of the video feels so genuine, it's nice
Same here, brings a smile to my face every time
It has a very satisfying sound to it - I think James would make for a good informative narrator on TV.
It genuinely put me at ease, very nice to hear
"I gave you your Aeropress video so shut up and let me grind carrots."
This is some Peter Rabbit shit right here...
actually made me laugh
At least he didn't use his coffee grinder!
@@stuyg86 same. Legit laughed out loud.
I find the concept of using whole vegetables for stock interesting. Typically, and the way I was taught by some pretty decent chefs (admittedly Italian ones), that veg stock is typically a way of using the offcuts (ends and skins of onions, tops of celery, ends of carrots, etc i.e. anything you'd usually compost, you can make stock from).
This is what stocks have been for hundreds of years, the remainder of food products like chicken carcasses & wing tips, beef bones, vegetable scraps and creating an additional menu product (soup consomme or aspic) to sell to make money, or an additional ingredient (demiglaze). There are exceptions like noodle shops where the stock is mostly unrelated to the rest of the ingredients though.
basically, and you would absolutely waste your effort and your knife's edge bothering to chop any more than twice on any given vegetable that you're using in stock
unless you're making a batch of fresh ramen or pho where the flavor of the stock is the meaning of the whole dish (or you're just drinking it lol) your effort would be much better spent chopping and freezing your vegetables for actual meals and then use the leftover bits after you finish cooking for your stock
I keep a frozen bag of vegetable and meat leftovers that I take like once a month and turn into stock lol
I think they are two different ideas of stock for two different purposes. The stock made from scraps is a way to economize food by getting some flavor and nutrition where ordinarily you'd get none since the components would go to waste. Whereas stock made from prime ingredients like whole chickens or full vegetables is a way to maximize flavor. I can see using the "full stock" like this for applications where cost is secondary compared to maximizing flavor, like for holidays or fine dining, while the "scrap stock" is sufficient for most applications and also more economical.
@@ReaperStarcraft The other aspect is that years of cooking with stock have yielded tons of delicious recipes that depend on the stock rather than the vegetables themselves. Occasional home cooks don't have tons of vegetable offcuts because they don't cook often enough to generate them, so stocks made with whole ingredients come in to fill a gap left in a modern world where people are time poor and cook infrequently rather than being short on ingredients.
Yrs. I think since we cook less in modern life people have forgotten why stock exists
This general idea is discussed in Kenji Lopez-Alt's book the Food Lab - he discusses for example running chicken parts through a food processor before making stock out of them to speed up the process
The same technique has been used with lobster shells for centuries. That’s how you make lobster bisque.
You’ve got to get Alex French Guy Cooking on that. I cannot imagine a better collab here on the cookery highlands of TH-cam.
Bingo!
This!!!
Duuude I was thinking the exact same!!!
Yeeees
@@tomedwick516 I have another option to nominate as an additional collab! Josh of Mythical Kitchen. He already has beef with Gordon Ramsey about grilled cheese recipes so I'm sure he would like to be a part of this and might also have some great ideas of things to apply coffee technique to. Ideally in a few months we could be watching a video where Rhet and Link give the final verdict on stock tried both ways. I would also say that adding some of that ground veggies will add back the color to make them indistinguishable and would be like the difference between orange juice with and without pulp. I would argue that without that you are missing out on much of the added benefits such as the fiber within the pulp.
As a side note: who are the few Gordon Ramsey fanboys that disliked the video? That is a crazy ratio about 100 times the likes!
What i learned from ramen making is that it's best to let it simmer over night. The big chunks make it possible to get a clear stock, tiny chunks would make it cloudy or even desintegrate completely. Quite comparable to cold brew! I dont have a juicer but was astonished to see that your juice based soup was clearer!
Weighing carrots doesnt make sense because they are tremendously different in flavour density. 1 big carrot from the farmers market packs more than 1kg from the supermarket.
If James ever does a cooking collab with Gordon, I'll be very happy.
James: YES BUT HOW MANY GRAMS, GORDON? HOW MANY GRAMS?
Meanwhile Gordon: A splash of olive oil.
(dumps the whole bottle)
that’s Marco Pierre White with the olive oil 😂
@@michael.d. My mistake lol
Just a touch
Also Gordon: And a touch of butter (adds pretty much the entire stick of butter)
Ramsey seems pretty anti-intellectual and gut-driven. And as an already successful chef, I don't sense the spirit of inquiry in him. So no, I'm not seeing collab chemistry there, 'cept as dueling youtube silverbacks ;~)
How I learned to make stock via TH-cam is to not use perfectly good vegetables but instead scraps and skins that would get thrown away anyways. Then the waste isn’t really waste
Same
I always eat the carrots carrots after making chicken stock. And of course, we shred the chicken and stretch that out for a few meals too
That's how I learned to make stock as well. When you make whatever dish involving vegetables, collect the skin and parts you cut off and throw it into a pot of water before throwing it away.
Gives you stock for the next week or so and it's always a bit different, depending on what dishes you make.
Same. Plus you can add a serving of used coffee grinds to add a deeper flavor. Honestly where I thought he was going with this lol
@@nicholasjohnson9666 Same.
I tried this. It was excellent. I also boiled the pulp in water separately and found a good amount of flavor still came out. I combined the two into a concentrated stock that I froze. My chickens enjoyed the pulp when all was done. Zero waste. Thank you so much for the idea!
Me waking up at 6:00 a.m.: Ugh. This day is gonna suck.
Me at 6:03 a.m. seeing James brewing vegetable stock: This is a pretty good day.
California?
@@AyAy008 yep 😁
Turns out James' favourite Aeropress recipe is just a standard roast dinner.
In Poland almost every household is doing "vegetable salad" which is basically finely cubed vegetables from the stock with cubed eggs, apples, corn and mayo. It's on most tables during every possible occasion: birthdays, weddings, eastern etc.
Who the hell puts corn in there? It should be peas
Sounds like a recipe Mexicans stole from Poland, except we use boiled potatoes instead of apples and we do it around those same celebrations.
@@ceciliacorson1804 oh, we use potatoes in there too. To be exact it's carrots, potatoes, parsley root, eggs, apples, onion, pickles and peas( I stand by that) . Mix with salt, pepper, mayo and a bit of mustard.
Oh and the onion and apples are in my experience very finely diced.
@@nemi-ru5318 Corn is sweet and crunchy, so I don't see why not
Can you tell more about this recipe ?
Someone needs to share this with Alex ("FrenchGuyCooking"). My body is ready for a 24 part series about burr-ground carrots and juiced leeks.
Flat burrs or conical burrs? Do SSP make unimodal carrot burrs?
@@IainChalmers Of course it depends. Carrots are vaguely conical, so you could go with the old saying "Conical burrs for conical foods". However if you slice them first it would without a doubt yield more uniform carrot-grounds, wich would then in turn lead to a more repeatable stock flavor-profile.
So in my mind I'd say. If you want your veggie-stock perfectly dialed in to your preferences, cut your carrots and go eith flat burrs. For your lazy everyday breakfast stock just use conical burrs and just throw the MFers in whole with peel, stalk and greens. Even though it makes for a more rustic cup, I'm not quite sure if its worth the effort everytime. Besides some people might prefer the more robust, earthy flavors of the whole-ground carrot you can achieve with a conical burr-setup.
Thanks for coming to my TED-talk.
This is a really interesting concept. Usually, when I make stock, I use refuse---onion skins and ends, carrot tops and peelings, celery ends, leek bottoms and leaves, etc; I also usually roast them before steeping. I wonder how well this would work with these, usually dryer, portions of vegetables.
I am a home chef who regularly makes complex food from scratch and loves trying new ways to be more efficient and reduce food waste. I really appreciate this and all your video.
I bought a coffee scale a year ago based on this channel, which led to consistently good coffee (thank you James) then led to consistently good oatmeal, which then led to me losing 30lbs from simply weighing my food out for a week so I understood what how much I was (over) eating. Long story short... count your grams, it may change your life!
Whenever people ask me about my weight loss I tell them that a scale was the biggest game changer. It’s insane how many servings you really eat when eyeballing it
On a long term diet (at least for me) I average 60 g/day sustainable weight loss, so you do need scales that weigh to +/- 0.05 kg. Body weight day by day varies tremendously due to water balance, digestion etc, but you can definitely see a trend over time...
Im using it for more regular cooking too. Mostly coffee and making deserts, where every gram counts.
Wait, you lost THIRTY POUNDS in A WEEK ? How ? Why ? How ? And most importantly, HOW ?
@@mrpepin It took me 6 months to lose 30 lbs, but only one week of meticulously weighing food to understand how many calories I was eating a day.
Did James just tell us to juice meat to make stock?
mince~
i guess, he said, we should grind it
no juice bones to make stock
But a lot of the flavor comes from browning when you're making a meat based stock. Perhaps we need to brown ground meat?
@@tylerbrady286 yhymmmm
I think that Sofrito and Mirepoix are more analogous to coffee brewing. Like coffee, the ingredients are very finely minced before flavor is extracted from them. Sofrito and Mirepoix are usually fried until soft, before water is added to extract the flavor. Coffee is roasted, before grinding, but the analogy holds, the "grinding" is just in a different order. Sofrito and Mirepoix extract can hardly be called a "broth", because they are usually quite thick with solids, but if you just boil coffee grounds, that would be thick with solids. Maybe Sofrito or Mirepoix prepped in the usual way, and then filtered, would be the ultimate analogy to coffee. Can't wait to see that experiment.
With the logic that coffe grind size is variable, what you just made was essentially “espresso” stock. i think a much more finely, but not juiced, vegetable base would potentially make a stock that does the job of a “filter coffee.” less intense, smoother, etc. would love to see a comparison of that.
So if he adds water to his juiced stock, he'd get Americano stock?
Hey, as someone who makes a lot of stock, theres just some things that i think are missing from the discussion. Vegetable stock recipies are the way they are because when cooking stock you normally simmer it for a very very long period of time, while with coffee the brewing is quite quick. While they’re similar there is a major difference in technique as the cooking time is so wholy different. Flavors are extracted and developed differently and so i don’t think it would be as simple as its made out to be.
Hearing James say 'and I hope you have a great day' is like a warm blanket at the end of each of his vids that I legitimately look forward to.
Regarding efficiency: that is why I love the veg stock made out of vegetable "scraps" you would usually throw away whilst cooking like carrot peel, onion peel and so on. It is reducing waste and is full of flavor.
This is the big insight for cutting your wastefulness. Just have a few ziplock bags in your freezer for vegetable scraps and animal bones and any other food waste you can use for something else once you have enough of it.
This is exactly how I make stocks
Haha, you thought it was Aeropress #2 but it was me, vegetable stock!
Shandong stock, or Chinese "Consommé" is made using a similar method. After simmering bones and carcasses for 5 hours, pork and chicken is made into a paste (yes, paste; not mince) and added to the stock. The result is that not only is the stock infused with a ridiculous amount of flavor, but the paste also sucks away all the impurities, resulting in the most perfectly clear stock you can make.
I came to the comments to see if anyone was going to mention consomme.
Yup consume especially how the Austrians do them are made with ground beef
You can also clarify a stock that way with an eggwhite btw
I cook my veg for a short time, then blend them to a texture I like with the stock and often keep the pulp in whatever I’m making, unless for some reason I want a clear stock, in which case I strain it. This enables me to be far more frugal, and include additional texture. This blending technique works great for things like Chile or thick soups.
I do the same. You can add lemon juice, creme, Greek yogurt, spring onions, olive oil or other ingredients to improve the flavor. Ramen decoration and finishing techniques work great on such blended soups.
I've wondered this myself and just assumed that chefs use huge chunks to save time and to make it easier to strain out.
Also, you should've cooked out the solids from the juiced version as well; you left a lot of flavor on the table by just cooking the juice.
If you don't own a juicer, I'd imagine blending vegetables to a pulp and allowing them to sit in their juices for 30min to a hour before cooking down the pulp and straining might produce an interesting hybrid of the techniques shown here.
Was going to say the same thing: add the pulp and your stock might be a bit darker James.
Straining that pulp will be an ordeal. It clogs every sieve, or you have to use a cheesecloth which is pretty messy too. I’ve done it before and regretted it. It only adds 10% more flavor, so not worth it in my opinion.
@@LidiaChurakova Also, I feel like that pulp is gonna compost better. You want some of the veggie chemical compounds still in there so you're not just enriching the soil with moist fiber.
@@LidiaChurakova What if you had a handy centrifuge lying around?
Yeah, I think maybe purée-ing might be a better middle ground. Tiny bits for extracting, but not losing the contributions of skins and fibers.
Love your lateral thinking, James! How about "Roasted Vegetable Broth" for a deeper flavor? We roast coffee beans for a better brew, so why not roasting the veggies for a better broth?
I like the way you think,
With mince meat if you brown it first, in small batches then make your tomatoe chutney ,then add it again in , greatly improve s the flavour
Wait just a darn minute: didn't you forget about the whole roast your coffee beans -- I meant vegetables -- step?
Good catch. If your veggies are roasted, a masticating juicer might not work as well as a centrifugal type.
And, further, maybe I misunderstood but it seems like he discarded the juiced veg solids described as not very flavorful, which... speaking of unnecessary waste!
Nah, you roast the pulp after you juice it and cook it with the rest of the juice.
@@warrenokuma7264 i would second this, or maybe tossing them in a dehydrator to extract anything left.
@@accelerator1666 Ooo. Good one.
One of the biggest differences between the coffee method and the traditional stock method is time. You can simmer a stock for hours, sometimes even days. You need the exposed parts of the bean when you're introducing it to water over the span of possibly minutes, you dont need to worry about that in a stock. 99% of the time you're not going to use raw veg or meats in a stock either, so juicing an almost burnt onion wouldn't be ideal. Also, try not to use meat in stocks to begin with. You use bones. If there's meat on the bones, it's fine, but you'll get more flavor from the meatless bones if one chicken in a stock that three chickens worth of meat and no bones.
As a German, I have to agree: Give me the grams, goddammit!
This is super interesting by the way, I really like this idea! :D
I would love to see a further comparison between a 3-4 hour stock and the juiced. Great video
Yes, I taste the solids after making a stock (generally several hours cooking) normally fairly tasteless. But maybe juicing uses less energy overall and offers new flavour experiences
I feel I finally understand the people who commented things like ‘I don’t even drink coffee, but if I see James I click’
Not the video i was expecting, but dang if it wasn’t interesting
Glad you understand. I still don’t know why I watch a coffee channel when I hate coffee.
Adding on to what @BaptisteMarie stated, add the skins from the onions while roasting. Caramalizing the onions in stages with small batches in the pan. Reducing the broth then adding your juice and cooking for another 20 minutes would make for an amazing vegetable broth
Hmmm.U actually gave me a new idea on making stock.
Been watching too much Heston and Vincenzo last time.
using ur idea and James' why don't I try this? :P
Take the measure amount of Sofito (carrots, celery and Onion.) Use a immersion blender and blend them into a fine paste. Saute over low heat until U can see signs of caramelisation.
Put them into a vaccum bag. Throw in ice cubes. Volume is the same as what u will put in for making stock.
vacuum seal it. And sou vide it for 12 hours at 183°F (83.9°C),
Time up. Just filter the mixture.
Base on ur description and Jame's findings. I have a feeling that this could make a stock that taste very close to the traditional way. and yet have a way more intensity.
When making stock you usually simmer for much longer, you can make a veggie Soup or just compost or feed the leftover vegetables to your animals if you have them. The reason the size of cuts don’t matter as much as coffee is because the water is at a boil compared to coffee which isn’t. When the veggies/me/bones come to a boil temperature inside they push out the flavors and compounds because of steam pressure buildup inside them.
The length of time of cooking is an important difference too.
@@MalTramp yea that’s very important too, he chose the worst stock recipe to test this with lol.
Was really hoping there would finally be a Kenji/James crossover, but still pleasantly entertaining
I second that crossover!
I'm not ready. But my body is ready.
Love it 🙂
One thing not mentioned in stock making is of course the malliard reaction. Ie the roasting.
Different vegetables react different to roasting. But for sure you get a lot more interesting stock if you roast some of the vegetables first. Like the carrots for example. If you make a shellfish stock, the roasting is critical!
Another aspect is quality and freshness of the vegetables. Makes a huge difference!
Some vegetables really benefit from being organic and more slow growing for example.
In some older cook books, there was a reference table converting units into grams ised for the recipes.
But overall, cook books in general could be improved A LOT, by better explanations, what’s important to be accurate about, what is not, flavor profiles etc etc.
"This recipe will make me angry." - Well of course, that's the Gordan Ramsay effect
Alternative title: British Coffee Guru gets angry at British Chef Guru
I'd replace angry with cross to be the perfect title.
I would like to have seen a third stock where you included the fibrous material from the juicer put into the stock while it was cooking for comparison purposes.
"Coffee might finally have broken my brain"
Yes, James. We know this day will eventually come :)
he probably shouldn't drink too much of that 1970 coffee
Hugh F. W. has a veg stock recipe in “River Cottage Veg Everyday” where he grates all the veg before cooking for 20 minutes. Sort of a halfway house between juicing and rough chop. I’ve used it a few times and it does produce a tasty result.
For one moment, I thought we were going to see a TDS reading of the two stocks.
Omg yes
Speaking of cross-pollination as a bartender, I really wish more people cooked with bitters. These simple tinctures can add a lot of deep flavor to non-alcoholic foods and drinks. I put a dash of Angostura into my morning cup of coffee every day, and it’s just tops. Highly suggest chocolate and chili bitters as well.
Yes bitters are mostly alcoholic, but they add such a miniscule amount of alcohol to the amount of punchy flavor that you shouldn’t think of them that way.
Ok I have orange bitters. Will now try to add a few drops into my morning espresso. Will I be revved the whole morning?
this is really interesting! please more bitters tips :) what would be some other cool places to add bitters for deeper flavor? particularly in foods :)
Chris Young is an absolute legend in the food science industry. So glad to see the cooking and coffee extracting worlds collide.
If you don't own a juicer, either a food processor or blender will get you similar results. Just be sure to strain it through either a fine mesh sieve or a few layers of cheesecloth (or a coffee filter) to get out any remaining chunks once you're done simmering. Been doing this for a while now with vegetable trimmings from other meals.
Would love to see you use the discarded post-juiced-pulp in the stock, straining the stock after cooking to add that wonderful color back in
You basically are making a consumme, and I am surprised that Chris didn't bring it up. You grind up the item super small, make a float, and then cook. Your result showed this even with it being much clearer, which is a characteristic of consumme.
Everything I looked up seems to be saying that uses egg whites. The stock did remind me of a stock from Toriko though. Which is clear and full of flavour.
*consommé
@@KunigasSuvirintojas thanks!
@@jobansand yes you have to use egg whites. For science purposes.
I never throw away the veggies from stock. I put my veggies through a food processor for quick cooking. Then once cooked I use an immersion stick to cream them. Only use best looking veggies. I use a bouquet garni of inion peels which I discard at the end.
First thing that came to mind: "have you gone mad?". Then I took a deep breath and settled for "what were you thinking?"
You are a genius, Mr. Hoffmann
And anyway, would a mad James Hoffmann produce better or worse videos than a normal version?
This really is such a great idea, I tried it and now I am never going back. I also take the leftover veggie fibers and add it to my pressure cooker when I make beans so there is no waste. 10/10 vid. Cheers!
"Give me the GRAMS Gordon!" 🤣🤣🤣 ⚖️
Chef here, there are some very important things for good vege stock the main one being the ratio of water to vegetable weight of which the golden ratio is 3 parts water weight to 2 parts vegetable weight.
If flavour is all you care about and not the clarity of the stock then on top of that you will want to roast your vegetable scraps in the oven before turning into stock, the chef in this video even talked about that causing the maillard reaction. On top of that I'd advise using some konbu seaweed and shiitake mushrooms and a paste mix of miso and tomato.
As to what vegetables you use it does make a difference but the best thing is often diversity, a good base of onion, celery and carrot is a good start but anything from garlic, fennel, peppers (non-spicy), beetroot and many others. Typically you just want to use whatever scraps you've amassed over a few days including even the onion skins.
Absolutely agreed! Specific, standardised measurements offer better consistency than saying "a few", or "a teaspoon" and allows for reproduction and scaling. Only issue I've come across is the parsing of ingredients lists. 1kg onions, diced will give a different yield than 1kg diced onions. All that skin, the root and the tip of the onion means you're either working with less than 1kg by the end of it, or starting with more and stopping when you get there.
I would suggest, for anyone who has a juicer and wants to give this a try, roast the vegetables for 20min before juicing to get the maillard reaction flavours as well as the additional results that Mr Hoffman's accomplished.
In food. People don't want an accurate recipe. They want an easily replicable recipe but you can't get more easy than 6 carrots. People don't care if it comes out different to last time, they only make it twice a year and it's delicious whether they are big carrots or small.
Maybe add the pulp and husks leftover from juicing into the stock and boil, then strain.
I was thinking the same thing
It seems completely logical and I will be trying this for sure. I graduated from the Culinary Institute of America (CIA) 16 years ago and there was a couple of people that chatted about this but I never saw it executed and I never heard of it again for the last 16 years, your work and thoughts on this are spot on. It seems so simple the relationships about surface area and the intensity of flavors. You have inspired me sir! Well done!
Beer brewing ! Please look into it, it should interest you.
The base material is malt (germinated grains) and water. The malt has to be ground. During the process, ground malt is mashed into warm water in order to let enzymes saccharify the starch, and let these glucides diffuse into the water. the grain mass is strained from the mash, and behold, rinced (sparged). This phase is effectively a percolation, much like a pour over. The goal is to create a sweet juice, called wort, that yeast will feed on, ferment, making beer (the brewer prepares the wort, the yeast makes the beer).
The mashing process have at least two aspects in common with making coffee: the grinding of the matrix, and the extraction of its soluble content (often by two different extraction means for a batch).
Oh and also water composition. a central subject for a very long time in beer brewing.
Oh again, there are very minimalist solutions to brew beer in your kitchen, anyone reading this comment, don't be afraid and brew at home !
So Gordon has been reacting to tictok food trends, he needs to react to this, I want to hear the reason why Gordon isn't using grams,
Because his books for the average home =/= his books for other chefs. Pick up one of his professional books and you'll find 10 veggie stock recipes for the 10 recipies in the book that call for veggie stock, and they will be insanely precise - to the size of dice for each vegetable, to the time they are added during cooking to the length of cooking. Even the variety of each vegetable will be specified as will the time of year it was harvested and growing conditions. All specific to one particular recipe. But most home cooks won't do that when they want to whip up dinner, they want to grab 6 carrots from a bag they purchased from the Carrots shelf of the supermarket and get something that tastes nice, but not be cooking all day, and spending a fortune the day before, trawling suppliers for the exact right vegetable to get something nicer.
Because cooking is supposed to be fun and using grams is only necessary with pastry. It's like a photographer complaining the painting not being sharp enough.
@@DarkAngelEU But if the ratios are so important, so should the measurements be. It's not that out there for homes to have scales. Could even compromise and say 6 carrots (360g)
@@henrywiltcher Bro, tons of people can't even cook an egg. How are you going to release a general cook book made for the most amount of people if everything is precisely measured? Think about it. If from there you're interested in cooking you have a base to work off of and now can start making your own stocks based off flavors you like. This shits not supposed to be a bible, its something to learn then work from.
And it is out there that homes have scales, most people don't.
@@henrywiltcher Thing is, the ratios aren't that important at the end of the day. If you're off by a decent amount of weight you'll still end up with a good stock. It won't be as consistent, which is bad for professional kitchens, but it will still be very tasty, which is often more than good enough for someone infrequently making stock.
So happy about this video. I once had a hissy fit in my grocery shop because none of the carrots were within 9grams of each other and I was making stock.
Thank you for expressing the anger that I've had at recipes for *years*
Thank you for expressing the anger I’ve had at Gordon Ramsay for years.
Don’t get me started on “cups”
Why juice them? How is that like coffee? Why not a food processor until they are finely minced, that would be more like coffee
So, a couple things about this. A lot of people, and often even restaurants, make stock from vegetable scraps. For example, I save ends of onions, celery, and whatever other veggies that are not too strongly flavored in a bag in my freezer until I get a chance, and enough, for stock.
Also, meat stocks are often made with bones, not actual meat, unless it is inedible pieces. The juicing also cuts out the use of tomato paste common with beef stock.
I think the juicing is interesting and might be useful, maybe for a cold soup like gazpacho? Probably other uses too, but I don't think it can replace cooking a stock, and I don't know that it is quite the same as a stock.
20 mins seems crazy low. The fact that the veg still has flavour is telling.
You missed the key point! If you juice the vegetable, its soup 😂😂😂
For real though, the vegetables get fully extracted *anyway* due to the amount of time spent boiling, so it doesnt matter what size they are - we keep them chunky to ease in getting them back out during straining :)
Except they don't, that was the point of tasting the carrot from the traditional stock. It was still full of flavour so it clearly hadn't been fully extracted
@@etymology3 only because 20 minutes is not early enough time to boil them. That was the problem with this experiment. When I make chicken stock for example , i boil for at least 4 hours
@@h3yn0w Yeah I was shocked to hear Gordon wasn't recommending at least an hour. But the recipe might also have been from his 'fast' meals angle where he writes knowing people want to be eating in 30 min or so. I'd like to see a version where everything get's cubed to like 1-2 cm and test that way. Also not cooking off the wine was a bit weird imo too. I'd say it would be worth doing a 20 min roast at ~350-450F on the finely diced vege (minus garlic). Cook the halfed garlic in some olive oil and until lightly browned and deglaze with the wine for 3-4 min and add the water and juice the roasted vege (minus herbs). Throw the juice into the stock and add the herbs and simmer for 5-8 more min.
The comparison would be finely diced and roasted and follow all the previous steps but instead of juicing add the roasted vege and simmer for an hour or so.
I like James Hoffmann's emphasis on reducing food waste, of course he is not the only one pushing for this movement.
Many of the traditional recipes seem to be developed by chefs of noble people and the elite in the 19th century, they wouldn't need to worry too much about waste as long as the flavours were there. If you go back 150 years or more the common people didn't really worry too much about the flavor, but rather how to make their food edible and how to preserve food stuff.
We're all basicly eating like kings these days (in the developed world).
Actually no. In history they made stock from all the off cuts of veggies/ meet as a way to get nutrition out of waste. The idea of using beautiful new veggies is a modern idea because we don't want to eat waste nor save our waste until we have enough to make stock. My grandma kept a Tupperware in the freezer to add her offcuts too for preservation until she had enough for stock. In history households were huge between the families and the servants. So there was lots off off cuts available all the time for stock making that isn't readily available today.
I really wanted you to roast the leftover parts of the juicing and make a stock from them. You roast coffee beans for better flavor after all.
As a long time home cook with a history in the food industry I think you have some good points and some off points. Like your friend said there is a lot more to factor in then just surface area, Mialiar reaction, carmilization, enzyme reactions and so much more. The very short cooking time of the recipe you used is extraordinarily short and not something I have personally seen before in any vegetable stock. Typically 40 minutes for a vegetable stock is a good length.
The idea of juicing would be good for very basic very plain vegetable stocks. Cutting things smaller would work for the more complex more flavorful roasted/carmilized stocks except when it comes to vegetables that are very enzyme heavy.
This is something that deserves exploration and experimentation.
I do feel you when it comes to the measurements just remember "cooking is an art baking is a science". Science you get precise measures, cooking you get "this much... about" 😉
5:43 When your dealer wants you to sit down and chill, but you have places to be.
Well, we all knew that two Aeropress videos in a row was a lungo shot. We just have to let James take stock so that he doesn't over extract the Aeropress videos. James is just brewing over the results from the last video. He's just giving us a slow drip feed of content so that there's no channeling in the Aeropress videos. We wouldn't want to sour our experiences with under extracted content.
Sometimes we steep vegetables like tea. I.e. when we want a very fresh, intense carrot broth, we peel it into thin ribbons, pour hot water over it to barely cover, cover and let it sit for 45 mins. It's really nice for using up scraps like carrot skins. Along the same vein, peeled sunchokes can be roasted with a little bit of tomato paste until very dark brown, steeped like a tea again, and then blended with xanthan for a really good vegan sunchoke jus. There are also cold steeped stocks, and those definitely do rely on exposure of surface area. The concept that you're talking about does exist in seafood soups (i.e. lobster bisques where the shells are blitzed to maximize surface area as well) or in consommes (where the meat is ground to expose surface area). We used to do an apple, seaweed broth in one place where we'd blitz, blast freeze, and let the pectin clarify the juice as it seeped through a cheese cloth and thawed, and the concept is definitely applicable to gelatin clarifying other ingredient juices, where again you'd want to maximize surface area. I think the thing is that these techniques aren't common in most restaurants because they're labour intensive, but you definitely see them somewhat commonly at higher-end esp. Michelin restaurants. I'm surprised that Chris Young didn't mention any of this.
I was expecting a video of James making stock from coffee! Still, I'd love to see Gordon's reaction during a busy meal service when James starting asks him how big a carrot is.
“If you eat a coffee bean, i don’t think that’d be delicious”
Chocolate covered coffee beans are my favorite candy.
I get where you are coming from. I love those things, too!
Creamy, sugary flavors are also used to successfully disguise poorly brewed coffee.
Take away the chocolate coating from the coffee bean, and the flavor probably won’t be as appealing.
I love them too!
I did a test where I held a chocolate covered bean in my mouth and dissolved the chocolate and then I ate the bean. It was terrible without the chocolate. It was not delicious ;)
@@andrewzach1921 I forgot I’m a PTC non taster, so there’s a whole range of bitter flavors I don’t even taste.
I don’t much care for the acidity of lighter roast coffees but I can straight up snack on darker roast beans even without the chocolate.
Also, having a prolonged sweetness in your mouth probably sensitized you to the bitterness further by overstimulating your sense of sweet.
A much better way to have done that test would have been to take a normal coffee bean and eaten it.
Can’t very well call it a test if you’re not controlling for anything that might screw up the results ;)
What you stated about creating vegetable surface area is critical. It's likened to chewing food slowly and many times to create more surface area for proper digestion. Carrots cut on a bias expose more surface area than in rounds and steam faster. Thank you for sharing your expertise!
i'll be awaiting the proliferation of context-free edits of about 0:41 where james brews a V60 with whole coffee beans
Can we please get a t-shirt with James' face on it that says "Give me the grams, Gordon"?
I want this!
YES PLEASE!
Finally a shirt to wear for a replay of half life 2.
I will 100% buy one.
I think if you're really trying to extract all the flavor to make the stock you should also add the pulp and extract all the other things like collagen with the water and heat like brewing and then pass it through a sieve or a coffee filter and then try it
When I can bother to make the time, I'll take bones from a whole chicken, along with whatever veg I have to hand, and make a stock. But I'd always chop the veg to a small dice with the same basic chefs knife I used for most things. Its a moments work to turn almost anything into dice or small cubes. And little wash up vs. my juicer (hardly ever used) or fancy machine with a range of attachments and 5 or so slicing and grating plates (too much pain to wash, so it too sees little use). Summary: a good knife, a large pot, an hour or 2, and you have lots and lots of yummy stock. If you drink some from a cup and its yummy, its good stock. If you can't bare to drink it, then little point in saving it to add to something another day. Then I freeze it in multiple 400 ml or so pottles. A few hours in the fridge to get nice and cold, and next time I'm near the fridge, throw all but one into the freezer. The one left becomes a meal later that day. And so many options you can use a nice chicken/veg stock. Polenta is one of many many options. (Cutting a carrot into 3 large chunks has always seemed really dumb, if you want the stuff inside to get out and become part of your stock)
That sounds amazing! Do you reuse bottles or have a preferred bottle? I've only ever reused soda bottles to freeze plain water (to fill space for energy savings, keep food frozen in power outages, and as instant freeze blocks for my travel cooler).
@@o0Avalon0o I freeze in a pottle - a plastic container with a lid. Can be new, or a reuse one well washed out and clean, so food won't spoil. I would never freeze in glass if that what you think I was saying. Too much risk of water/ice expanding and breaking it. Maybe not a common word in some locations. But here in New Zealand, "pottle" is a common name most people maybe know. Sorry if I confused you on that.
@@jimwithheld7217Thank you for the explanation. I just thought Pottle was a brand I had never heard of and maybe I should purchase it but it seems I was incorrect.
Your first comment was also very helpful, I have turkey bones and vegetables so I'm excited to make some fresh stock.
James: “Give me the grams Gordon! Give me the grams”
This line had me dying 😂
I don’t drink coffee but for some reason I still like your channel. Thanks!
Using grams for things like carrots is very much like writing down a recipe for filtered coffee that's just the weight of the coffee needed, the precise grind size, and the water ratio. The variance in the coffee itself and other factors unaccounted for will lead to many people having bad results and no idea why that happened, that's why you give people rough guidelines and teach them how to adjust all the variables themselves. By not always using precise measurements where they're not needed, recipes force you to develop skills necessary to deal with the real world variance in ingredients and other factors and to be able to use your best judgement and adjust for that. People often tend to follow recipes very mechanically and using precise measurements for things that don't always taste the same and which don't easily divide into grams without ending up with potential waste can just make everything more difficult for novice cooks who don't trust themselves over what the recipe says.
I think it's also more of an impact in coffee - that is, a small difference in grams of coffee will have a bigger impact on flavor than what would happen with carrots in a stock or something. The impact is just smaller there.
And also, people don't tend to make stock everyday. So instead of cutting up half a carrot and finding a use for it elsewhere, it's easier to toss in the whole thing (if working from whole veggies and not scraps, obviously)
If he gives you the grams he is being super specific in one area when not knowing what your carrot tastes like.
So what I'm hearing is that you have to dial in your carrots, yeah?
I make stock a bit differently than others. I take whatever bones I have, and clean vegetable ends from previous cooking, and store them all in the freezer in a large ziptop bag until the bag is full. Often this includes raw or cooked meat bones and meat trimmings, onion tops and tails, carrot ends, leak leaves, herb stems, fennel stems, etc. Whatever veg I've had recently, basically. When the time comes to make the stock I roast the contents of the bag from freezer on a really high setting until they are defrosted and beginning to brown. This then goes into my large slow cooker along with a couple table spoons of whole pepper corns, 2 bay leaves, 1 star anise, a knob of ginger, a piece of fresh turmeric, about a tablespoon of apple cider vinegar, 1 dried chili (usually I have kashmiri chili on hand so I use that but others work too), and whatever else laying around my kitchen that could add flavour (sometimes dried herbs or other spices). I also add a little salt but that's not needed. This then cooks on low in the slow cooker for 24-36 hours.
The stock that comes from this is nothing like I've ever been able to buy, it's so great I can drink it straight with out even making it into soup. This really extracts everything of value out of the stock's constituents and even the bones are easily broken with my fingers by the end of cooking. Any collagen from the bones is completely dissolved at that point too, and the vegetables colour is usually gone or close to it.
Only discovered this little gem just now. Sad to see the coffeethink genre of videos hasn’t had any followups ever since
The thing is that a vegetable stock isn't supposed to be sharp or pungent. It's supposed to be mellow in flavor of umami, saltiness and with a taste closer to food than to water because of it's heavier body. This allows it to be a medium or substrate to allow it to linger the other flavors that you are incorporating in your recipe such as other ingredients and spices.
Unlike Coffee, almost no one has vegetable stock on its own. Stock is a tool in executing a tasty recipe. It allows you to add character to your recipe when more liquid is needed but where water would quite simply dilute your efforts. The combinations of various vegetables in a stock in a recipe helps to synthesize your ingredients and spices into a more holistic whole whereas the extraction of coffee beans is just about the antithesis of that.
By the way, I loved your idea about cross pollination of thinking. Love it!
what if you were to also take the ground up remains from juicing, and add that to the stock while it's boiling, tied up in a cheesecloth so it's easily removable?
I think that would get you closer to the color and mouthfeel of stock from whole veggies.
I don't have a juicer, otherwise I'd try this.
Very interesting. I have been making vegetable stock for about a year using food scraps as a zero waste technique. Every time I slice an onion or peel a potato, I save the peels in a little bag in the freezer. If I have some carrots that are getting limp, I save the in the bag in the freezer. Then, at the end of the month, I take the freezer bag and boil it for a few minutes in loads of water and some salt and seasonings, fresh herbs. Then I let it simmer on low heat for hours. I also turn off the hob and just let the pot sit there, absorbing all the flavour. At the end of the day I go and run it through a siv and the colour is usually very brown/dark brown. The thing that gives it the most flavour are the onion and garlic peels! Those should not go in the bin at all. Traditional stock recipes were all about taking the most flavour and nutrition out of food scraps, during times when people didn't waste anything. Taking the information from this video, I'll try juicing or at least finely slicing all the stock ingredients before they go in the pot next time.
THANK YOU! It's about time someone explains extraction from increasing surface area!!
F A S C I N A T I N G
(Also: How many carrots, Gordon? HOW MANY CARROTS IS THIS??)
As a chef who likes these kind of experiments i would have fried the pulp from the juicing on medium heat till i got golden brown and used it in the stock. The pulp on its own maybe dont taste like much but when you fry it deep flavours would come out.
When i make veg stock i chop everything very fine and i start to fry some of the vegetables that i like to get a pretty dark colurs as i chop the others. Kind of creating multi layers of flavours with the herbs added last when the boiling is done and it cools down. It sounds kinda complicated but it makes sense both in theory and practice
"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should"
Vegetables are boiled for much longer time, so the water penetrates all the way. Secondly, the stock making is not only about extraction, but also transformation of compounds on top of filling water with nutrients. Plus, as you noticed, vegetables themself are eatable and therefore can make into some other dish if not left as a part of the soup.
Additionally I want you to think of how much of nutrients is wasted to the juicer and oxidized/degraded in the process before boiling.
Most juicer cookbooks contain a ton of vegetable soup recipes, including clear stocks. You can get a lot of tips from people in the juicing community who make soups like these.
The raw food community almost exclusively uses juiced veggies for clear stocks.
Many old time recipes use sieving, essentially juicing and filtering the vegetables after they are soft and cooked and broken down which is even more efficient.
Lots of fun research ahead now that you are starting down these paths.
Paused at 1 minute in to say...was making vegetable stock yesterday and had this exact thought, can't wait to see how this goes.