Update ~ The full Tangara Technology Upgrade has been re-announced by the labour government! I'll be putting out a new video in a few days discussing on what's to come! :)
By the way, I don’t think the reason for the project being so troublesome is “funding” or “lack of priority”. It’s because the trains firstly aren’t designed for the extra power consumption created by the upgrades and the T4 line in general or atleast the tunnels can’t support as much power as other lines. Anyway, those are my thoughts😊.
Partially correct, I forgot to mention the power supply in the video but there was a lack of funding with proof of how they are so bothered to work on the project and with many features being removed or delayed.
It's amazing how successful the Tangara trains has been for Sydney after more than three decades. And how this didn't work out for Melbourne when back in the 90s that there was also a Tangara upgrade in Victoria. There was only one 4 car unit that have operated for 10 years in Melbourne until this was made redundant than scraped.
7:30 For anyone who doesn’t know, what happens when a Sydney Train or NSW TrainLink train that is equipped with a trip arm runs past a signal at STOP, the trip arm strikes the raised arm on the ground attached to the signal and causes all of the air in the brake pipe to be evacuated to atmosphere (emergency brakes apply) and cannot be reset until the driver puts air back into the brake pipe
I was 15 when the T sets were released. They looked so futuristic to my teenage mind. I loved they had air conditioning as well. What I hated was the non reversible, ironing board felling, vinyl covered seats., having been used to reversible and softer seats, though still vinyl covered.
The sign shown at 1:48 is a TVM block marker used on the French LGV network and UK HS1. The ETCS block marker has the same colors but is in the shape of a yellow arrow instead of a triangle.
The T sets are my favourite suburban trains and still has another 10-20 years of life left in them, unlike the silvers sets before them that now look like an eyesore, the Tangara is well ahead of its time and can be made with upgrades that will bring it into the line with Waratah A and B sets. It’s just a shame that they have been botched up with the TTU project and now the current Labor government now talking about replacing them so soon. They are “the most” iconic train on the Sydney network.
I was so happy when these trains took over THE RED RATTLERS, omg hated getting the red rattler so freaking early in the morning on a cold winters day to school at 8am, cause those stupid doors and some of the windows would not close fully and it would be soooooo COLD when they went over the harbour bridge. HATED IT.
1:58 One example of this signalling system in use is the route between St Pancras International and Ebbsfleet International in the game “Train Sim World 2” as every time I’ve driven trains through this section in the game, I see the exact same yellow triangles described in the video
As a T4 commuter I have mixed feelings about the failure to properly upgrade the Tangaras. On one hand the information screens etc would've been great to have, but on the other, maybe this means we'll be getting more modern replacement trains sooner rather than later 😁
i feel for commuters like you who only have one type of train set. you can barely hear the announcements, the non reversible seats etc. when i was younger i was a fan of the tangaras but time has come.
Correction: original livery was SRA - hence the red and yellow stripes and L7 logo of the Candy Livery - pre Cityrail, the trains were operated under the jurisdiction of the State Rail Authority.
They defs need to be faster that's for sure. Compared to the Metro lines, the T lines literally age you by 30 years for the duration of the ride. Hope they keep its Iconic interior with the switchable chairs but it feels like the carriage is gonna derail every time we board.
That's more a driving and timetable thing than a train problem. Back 20 years ago trains would regularly come into platforms doing at about 60 with full brakes, but now it feels like walking pace and then they sit there at an empty platform for 60 seconds.
@@tsetstransport That is down to Hurstville yes - the main problem is between Erskineville and Bondi Junction, which can only run 1-3 sets at most at once. One B set tested their successfully, but it took a lot of power to and hence they also changed the location the depot from Mortdale to Auburn. Oscars are able to run as they have a lower power consumption than Waratahs, and Millenniums would be able to do the same (they used to run on the T4 a long time ago), but running one rolling stock allows for higher frequency.
This is also the reason why the Waratahs and M sets that ran during industrial action went from Hurstville to the City Circle, rather than from down south to Bondi.
This is what I’ve gathered from what I’ve read split from various recent sources and articles so correct me if I’m wrong here: H sets will be allocated to Sector 1 and Sector 3, however H sets will be limited on Sector 1 as just like you described, power issues on some sections of the line (predominantly between Erskineville and Bondi Junction) limit the number of Gen 4 trains being able to run. I believe this may have to do with the AC traction systems decreasing and increasing power below and above what the T sets DC traction motors would normally draw, and there’s only so much power supply on this section of track. If a new timetable for SCO and ESI includes terminating and commencing all SCO services from Central above ground, Sector 1 suburban services can see a few H sets run between Bondi Junction and Cronulla/Waterfall. I think the line between Erskineville and Bondi Junction can take approximately 3 Gen 4 trains at a time? Even just a few H sets on Sector 1 suburban services would benefit by increasing accessibility and comfort for these commuters. Otherwise, H sets might end up a bit lonely on Sector 3 where there are enough A&B sets to service the entire sector, and Sector 2 will have all of the T sets, M sets, A&B sets in the world to operate. Happy to be corrected here.
Although the T sets might be structurally sound for another 10 to 20 years service, much of the electrical and control systems aren’t. The ATP system might give a modern safety system, but the train still run by an ancient DOS TMS system. It also uses a different braking system (B14 brake stand) and even with the upgrades is showing it’s age, as many of the parts are becoming harder to find.
Perhaps they could have sold them to Victoria, it's a shame the Victorians scrapped the 4D set, I think they should have persisted with it. Melbourne travellers loved the double decker train.
Considering the Comeng trains have been a brilliant train for Melbourne that were refurbished up to 25 years ago with the basic essentials Tangaras can’t have in 2024 like PIDs, CCTV, I think Victoria is happy with its fleet post 4D (a failed train that could only run on a tiny fraction of the network)
Personally I think it is way too hard to upgrade these trains. They are from a different era and as much as I like them it’s time to cut our loses and order new trains as they will take at least until end of the decade to be in operation.
It’s such a weak argument to say that things made overseas are bad, things made here are the best. Turn the tables around and when we want to export anything, that naive rhetoric will be used against us.
One of the worst things in my opinion are the seats. Supposed lumbar support is in the wrong place. It should be higher up in the lumbar region not on your bum. The main thing that went wrong was they went into service. 🏳🌈
I think what Stephen is referring to is the statement you make that “this is due to the terrible planning of the Liberal government”. Yes, it’s your opinion and perspective but it’s also a political statement (an opinion about politics is basically a political statement). 🤔
@@tsetstransport Yeah, I get that. Some people don’t like hearing political opinions (well mostly if they disagree with them) so it’s always a fraught area. 😝
It’s such a weak argument to say that things made overseas are bad, things made here are the best. Turn the tables around and when we want to export anything, that naive rhetoric will be used against us.
Update ~ The full Tangara Technology Upgrade has been re-announced by the labour government! I'll be putting out a new video in a few days discussing on what's to come! :)
ok
TTU is one of the funniest jokes the NSW government has ever made
By the way, I don’t think the reason for the project being so troublesome is “funding” or “lack of priority”. It’s because the trains firstly aren’t designed for the extra power consumption created by the upgrades and the T4 line in general or atleast the tunnels can’t support as much power as other lines. Anyway, those are my thoughts😊.
Partially correct, I forgot to mention the power supply in the video but there was a lack of funding with proof of how they are so bothered to work on the project and with many features being removed or delayed.
@@tsetstransport Oh, yeah that’s alright mate, still a great video. Typical liberals 🤣
I like your new type of “long and informative” videos 😊. Great video!
That's great to hear! Thanks for watching! :)
@@tsetstransporthey mate, channel “Planes, Trains, and Cars” made a post about “Tsetstransport threaten to BURN me”.
Excellent video and very informative, especially as I had no idea of the progress or lack of the upgrade. Well done, Elliot 👏 👍
It's amazing how successful the Tangara trains has been for Sydney after more than three decades.
And how this didn't work out for Melbourne when back in the 90s that there was also a Tangara upgrade in Victoria. There was only one 4 car unit that have operated for 10 years in Melbourne until this was made redundant than scraped.
7:30 For anyone who doesn’t know, what happens when a Sydney Train or NSW TrainLink train that is equipped with a trip arm runs past a signal at STOP, the trip arm strikes the raised arm on the ground attached to the signal and causes all of the air in the brake pipe to be evacuated to atmosphere (emergency brakes apply) and cannot be reset until the driver puts air back into the brake pipe
I was 15 when the T sets were released. They looked so futuristic to my teenage mind. I loved they had air conditioning as well. What I hated was the non reversible, ironing board felling, vinyl covered seats., having been used to reversible and softer seats, though still vinyl covered.
The sign shown at 1:48 is a TVM block marker used on the French LGV network and UK HS1. The ETCS block marker has the same colors but is in the shape of a yellow arrow instead of a triangle.
Sorry for that mistake. Thanks for letting me know!
The T sets are my favourite suburban trains and still has another 10-20 years of life left in them, unlike the silvers sets before them that now look like an eyesore, the Tangara is well ahead of its time and can be made with upgrades that will bring it into the line with Waratah A and B sets. It’s just a shame that they have been botched up with the TTU project and now the current Labor government now talking about replacing them so soon. They are “the most” iconic train on the Sydney network.
love your little camera spin in your old vid lol! nice one, keep up the good work 😊👍
Worth noting in the 2002-2007 upgrades the cabs were fitted with alarms as well
That was due to the Waterfall Train Disaster, which sadly claimed 7 lives.
@@ukraineball953 unrelated. im referring to alarms that would sound when disused cabs were broken in to.
I was so happy when these trains took over THE RED RATTLERS, omg hated getting the red rattler so freaking early in the morning on a cold winters day to school at 8am, cause those stupid doors and some of the windows would not close fully and it would be soooooo COLD when they went over the harbour bridge. HATED IT.
1:58 One example of this signalling system in use is the route between St Pancras International and Ebbsfleet International in the game “Train Sim World 2” as every time I’ve driven trains through this section in the game, I see the exact same yellow triangles described in the video
Amazing video!
As a T4 commuter I have mixed feelings about the failure to properly upgrade the Tangaras. On one hand the information screens etc would've been great to have, but on the other, maybe this means we'll be getting more modern replacement trains sooner rather than later 😁
Hopefully oscar trains will be used on the online when they are converted from regional to metropolitan trains
i feel for commuters like you who only have one type of train set. you can barely hear the announcements, the non reversible seats etc. when i was younger i was a fan of the tangaras but time has come.
@@Roadrunnerz45 i mean, i love tangaras, they are one of my fav trains at all time, but i want to see other trains too
I always thought it was odd with the futuristic looking Tangaras was having the windows around into the roof in a hot climate.
Great video! I didn't know anything about this so I appreciate it!
Correction: original livery was SRA - hence the red and yellow stripes and L7 logo of the Candy Livery - pre Cityrail, the trains were operated under the jurisdiction of the State Rail Authority.
Honestly maybe instead of scrapping the project. They should find a better manufacturer with more experience refurbishing trains.
Great video!
They defs need to be faster that's for sure. Compared to the Metro lines, the T lines literally age you by 30 years for the duration of the ride. Hope they keep its Iconic interior with the switchable chairs but it feels like the carriage is gonna derail every time we board.
That's more a driving and timetable thing than a train problem. Back 20 years ago trains would regularly come into platforms doing at about 60 with full brakes, but now it feels like walking pace and then they sit there at an empty platform for 60 seconds.
How many Tangaras are there in total
This Tangara got the M set DWD 6:36
I have got a driver instruction book for the Tangara from quite a long time ago (probably 30 years)
I'm pretty sure the T sets are the only trains that can run on the T4, as the Tangara uses less energy. Which means the T4 uses less energy
Incorrect as they always have Oscars running on the T4 and Waratah's and M sets have ran on the line before which I have filmed.
@@tsetstransport That is down to Hurstville yes - the main problem is between Erskineville and Bondi Junction, which can only run 1-3 sets at most at once. One B set tested their successfully, but it took a lot of power to and hence they also changed the location the depot from Mortdale to Auburn. Oscars are able to run as they have a lower power consumption than Waratahs, and Millenniums would be able to do the same (they used to run on the T4 a long time ago), but running one rolling stock allows for higher frequency.
This is also the reason why the Waratahs and M sets that ran during industrial action went from Hurstville to the City Circle, rather than from down south to Bondi.
This is what I’ve gathered from what I’ve read split from various recent sources and articles so correct me if I’m wrong here:
H sets will be allocated to Sector 1 and Sector 3, however H sets will be limited on Sector 1 as just like you described, power issues on some sections of the line (predominantly between Erskineville and Bondi Junction) limit the number of Gen 4 trains being able to run.
I believe this may have to do with the AC traction systems decreasing and increasing power below and above what the T sets DC traction motors would normally draw, and there’s only so much power supply on this section of track.
If a new timetable for SCO and ESI includes terminating and commencing all SCO services from Central above ground, Sector 1 suburban services can see a few H sets run between Bondi Junction and Cronulla/Waterfall. I think the line between Erskineville and Bondi Junction can take approximately 3 Gen 4 trains at a time?
Even just a few H sets on Sector 1 suburban services would benefit by increasing accessibility and comfort for these commuters. Otherwise, H sets might end up a bit lonely on Sector 3 where there are enough A&B sets to service the entire sector, and Sector 2 will have all of the T sets, M sets, A&B sets in the world to operate.
Happy to be corrected here.
Great Video Like Always! i drew your logo btw its on my channel
T106 and T72 are in HMC
Although the T sets might be structurally sound for another 10 to 20 years service, much of the electrical and control systems aren’t. The ATP system might give a modern safety system, but the train still run by an ancient DOS TMS system.
It also uses a different braking system (B14 brake stand) and even with the upgrades is showing it’s age, as many of the parts are becoming harder to find.
You didn't show us any of the displays inside of the train.😊
Maybe watch the whole video and you’ll see
Someone hasn't watched the full video...
Its not called an intentional spad its "passing a signal at stop"
Perhaps they could have sold them to Victoria, it's a shame the Victorians scrapped the 4D set, I think they should have persisted with it. Melbourne travellers loved the double decker train.
Considering the Comeng trains have been a brilliant train for Melbourne that were refurbished up to 25 years ago with the basic essentials Tangaras can’t have in 2024 like PIDs, CCTV, I think Victoria is happy with its fleet post 4D (a failed train that could only run on a tiny fraction of the network)
might be worthwhile to email a politician about this project. better to email the shadow since it was the previous government who initiated it.
my guess is that the H sets will be running on the T4 line when the new intercity trains begin service
Trip arms with signals are mainly used in areas of high rail traffic such as Newcastle or Wollongong NSW
Signals with trip arms are used where electric passenger trains run. Diesel (and, when there were, electric) loco's don't have trip mechanisms.
@@brett174 The XPT, Xplorer, Endeavour and Hunter RailCars also have trip arms attached to them as well
@@tamworthtrainnut285 Thank you for that information. However, are diesel (no longer used Electric) locomotives fitted with trip mechanisms?
Great video 🎉
Hopefully with jo Haylen will get the TTU back on track (no pun intended)
Wait What is that Music Video was Very Fast
The TTU is the reason why the C set Rerired
Pretty sure they don’t run a train service, they running a refrigeration service.
Better air-conditioned would have been good. During summer and peak hour the air con were useless. Sydney is hot, comfort for users would be great.
Retiring these trains at this early time is a huge waste of public money.
Personally I think it is way too hard to upgrade these trains. They are from a different era and as much as I like them it’s time to cut our loses and order new trains as they will take at least until end of the decade to be in operation.
It’s such a weak argument to say that things made overseas are bad, things made here are the best. Turn the tables around and when we want to export anything, that naive rhetoric will be used against us.
I only want desto Displays
They should just put an android tablet in each carriage and call it a day 😂
One of the worst things in my opinion are the seats. Supposed lumbar support is in the wrong place. It should be higher up in the lumbar region not on your bum.
The main thing that went wrong was they went into service. 🏳🌈
t 102 runs on the t3
Not Tangara related but I cannot wait for stage 2 of Sydney Metro from Chatswood to Sydenham via Crows Nest to open very soon
Who Wants Eliot To Play MST2 Again?
Can you not..?
@@transportfanaussie Can YOU you mean
@@All_Stars_gamez123miku what?
@@transportfanaussie i was saying that coz i wish eliot played mst2
@@All_Stars_gamez123miku that’s because he quit roblox
:)
Please don’t make political statements. They degrade your channel.
I was not making any political statements, I was providing my opinion and my perspective.
I think what Stephen is referring to is the statement you make that “this is due to the terrible planning of the Liberal government”. Yes, it’s your opinion and perspective but it’s also a political statement (an opinion about politics is basically a political statement). 🤔
@@FromtheWindowSeat Fair point. Although, my intention of that was just to provide an opinion from my point of view.
@@tsetstransport Yeah, I get that. Some people don’t like hearing political opinions (well mostly if they disagree with them) so it’s always a fraught area. 😝
It’s such a weak argument to say that things made overseas are bad, things made here are the best. Turn the tables around and when we want to export anything, that naive rhetoric will be used against us.