I built a propane 1979 Cordoba with a 360 cid all stock except for the 727 transmission and a Comp camshaft and modified distributer timing set for propane. The stock Mopar electronic ignition module was removed and a GMC 4 prong HEI was wired in and located inside the car's cowl for cooling purposes. This happened back in the early 2000s. Propane prices and availability was excellent in those days and the car gave outstanding performance and economy. I got stopped on my way home from work because I was racing a new 2005 Dodge ram 1500 that could not overtake my Cordoba, the RCMP told me that by the time he had clocked me on radar I was doing 150 km/hr and he exclaimed that I was doing way faster than that. All I could say was "this old car can go that fast?"
I've run propane tractors for years. The faster rpm you get on cranking, the easier it will fire up. Oil never gets dirty, they never run hot, start at any temp.
Well guys, I'm just going off personal experience, if they sat outside when was less than 20 degrees, we had to pull them into the shop and let them warm up before they would start. And in North Dakota, that's about half the year.
Uncle Tony. I've run propane on my vehicles for years. I disagree about the elevated mounting of the converter. On a permanent installation, I find that the converter must be mounted below the radiator fill level because the converter needs to stay full of hot coolant, otherwise it will freeze up. Also, the converter should be edgewise(?) parallel to the direction of travel. If mounted flat (sometimes necessary because of space restrictions), a large bump will cause the diaphram to dump and cause a surge. I mount mine with the outlet at the bottom because the oderized oil in the propane and eventually build up in the converter and must be drained by periodically removing the big hose and letting it drip. If its with the discharge pointing up, the oil will build up behind the diaphram and gel when cold, causing hard start/surging till the hot water softens up the gel. Propane engines are easier to start because the fuel enters the engine ad a vapor instead of a gasoline that needs to be vaporized and possible pool inside a cold manifold. Oil stays cleaner too. One drawback is valves eating into the head on engines that are pushed hard. Installing hard seats helps. My 304/392 Internationals have yet to wear out a valve. Edit: Dad used to drip Marvel Mystery Oil via a vacuum line from a Marvel Oiler that had a sight glass and you would adjust the drip. It would bathe the valves in oil and save the seats and guides.
Yes. All of the above. I've run converters below the mixer on a few Valiants in the 90s without issue. The 1" hose is known as 'zero' hose down here, and the engine vacuum draws the gas through, as it does gasoline through the jets of a carb. She'll start running crook once a quarter of that tank is used too, as it should be horizontal, or you'll be drawing vapor instead of liquid soon. Assuming that's a forklift tank.
Yea you are spot on, I was hoping that in the comments there would be factual info. I have run impco sets on all my v8 off roaders with great success. One thing that plagued me for a while was wind disturbance when I made a cold air pick up, you cant force air down the intake the same as petrol. One thing to know is LPG or Propane engines dont like running rich, they need leaning off. My daily driver is a BF Ford Falcon dedicated LPG you cant fault it especially when LPG is around 1.50 a litre in NZ and petrol is around 3.50 for 95 ron.
There is a little cone underneath the mixer diaphragm that can be changed or modified to adjust part throttle enrichment. Just like the metering rods in an AFB. All of the comments about how to plumb and mount the regulator (vaporizer) are pretty much spot on. Direct is best if you have room. I installed and repaired LPG systems for 10 years and all the stories a out engine life are really true. I took a 350 out of a FritoLay delivery van with 400k on it, put a set of rod bearings and a cam in it and dropped i. Right in a street stock race car. Never had a problem with it.
Hi, just a comment on your latest quest. Back in the late '60's we were approached by a local propane supplier (in R.I.) to run a setup on a race car. We had been running Chevys but they had a set up for a 292 Ford Y block. We set up a '57 Ford 2 door and ran it for a season. Never won but the car was heavier than the Chevys. But the torque seemed better coming off the corners. We could pull the 283's but they turned higher RPM on the straights. Short 1/4 mile asphalt track , minimum banking. Was a good experiment though.
You are proving out what so many taxi drivers here in Ghana, West Africa have told me. They say it is cleaner, less complex (more reliable) and cheaper by far than gasoline. This makes me wish my little diesel pickup was gasoline so I could convert. Awesome experiment. It sounds so responsive. This is the direction we as a country should be going. You can gasify coal and we have a huge chunk of the world’s coal.
I remember sometime back in 1969 or '70 Hot Rod Magazine did a feature on a propane-powered 426 Hemi Charger drag car called "Propane X" that used 2 IMPCO propane carbs mounted on top of a tunnel ram. If anybody could find a copy of that article it would make for some interesting and useful reading.
I installed and ran dual fuel propane in my 1971 F250 for over 25 years. I loved the way it ran and sounded. It didn't quite have the same power as gasoline but that wasn't an issue with me. I ran propane 95% of the time but kept the normal carburetor and an electric fuel pump for options when propane wasn't available or convenience. Propane is over 100 octane and does not ping; you can even lug the engine a bit without downshifting for wide turns and it just smoothly pulled it. Propane engines like high compression, Stellite exhaust seats ( or the modern hardened seats), a fast advance on a mechanical distributor but with overall less advance than a gasoline distributor. All my experience was with pickup trucks towing a travel trailer and using the truck for work, not racing. As others mentioned the oil will look new for years, but change it sooner. Keep a spare 'butterfly' and regulator parts in the tool box. The only problem I had was stupidly running some stale gas when I ran low on propane and gluing the valves in the heads on a 390. The carb is very forgiving except for setting the idle richness on propane. That button on the regulator is used to bypass the regulator and put a shot of propane in the carb on cold days; they have a cable and bracket for installing a dash pull. I installed it but never needed it where I lived. I very seldom saw anybody else running propane when I bought fuel at the propane distributor. I did meet one guy once and he had an air chuck hooked to his propane tank which he used to run an air impact wrench to change tires. Definitely not a safe procedure. BTW propane motor fuel tanks draw liquid not vapor from the tank, so an electric shut off valve is a must. My tank was 85 gallons but with the vapor space it carried 65 gallons and you can drive a long time between fill ups. Almost every small town has a propane distributor and they are happy to sell you 50+ gallons at a time. Propane motor fuel is taxed at the same rate as gasoline. Propane has more energy per pound than gasoline but less energy per gallon. I could nerd out more but that's it for now.
I read some of the comments from other propane guys. The regulator should be below the water line. Use the water line that comes from the heater core so you have constant water flow to prevent freezing the regulator. Yes, mount the regulator with the outlet down for multiple reasons. Plus, you need a solenoid that is open ONLY when the ignition is hot, otherwise you will have a very bad day. From the son that grew up delivering propane, Mikel
In Australia are ment to have a electronic module that cuts the solenoid power when there is no tack single (that way in a accident there is no build of propane fumes when the engine is stalled but the ignition still hot)
Few years back i bought a propane 355 chevy from an old farmer that was parting out the truck. When we showed up it was a frame with the engine and trans still sitting on it. It was about 30° out that day. He squirt a little gas down the carb and put the propane hat back on off of his other pickup and it just sat right on top of the quadrajet. The engine fired immediately and purred like a kitten. I was told the rebuild had 40k miles. It was the cleanest used sbc ive ever opened up. Engine ran great when i got it in my truck. The quadrajet never had gasoline ran through it. It was also flawless. The engine never sounded as good as it did the day he fired it up on propane.
Tony this is really cool to see finally someone playing with the v8 engines on propane! Over here in Holland it's very common to run the gasoline engines on propane because of fuel costs. But you have to agree they run amazing on propane , easier starting and awesome throttle response. There is some more international cylinder wear because there is no lube from the fuel. I have run propane in my 360 v8 in my daily work Jeep truck and loved it every time!
As some one who owns a LPG powered vehicle in Australia, I am beginning to find it harder and harder to find places to fill up as more stations are removing pumps and stating that they aren't profitable any more since most of the taxi companies have switched to hybrid electric cars 😑
I've inspected 1960 slant six industrials that had been run in a steel pipe plant on propane pretty much 24/7 for 35 years. There was no measurable wear on the bottom, and bores were well in limits.
When I lived in Lima Peru, I had my 1991 Volvo 940 converted to run on LPG. It was actually a dual fuel setup where I could run it on either gasoline or LPG. The car would start on gasoline, and switch over to LPG once warm. (BTW, what we refer to “propane” here in the USA is actually a mix of propane & butane, propane by itself would be way too volatile). The tank was in the shape of a tire, and was installed in the spare tire space in the trunk! I loved the setup, and my oil NEVER GOT DIRTY. This was very common in Peru especially in taxi applications, where many cars were converted to run on either LPG, or Natural Gas. (A Natural Gas conversion is completely different and designed to withstand much higher pressures. NG holding tanks take much longer to fill, and don’t hold very much fuel due to the higher pressure, this is why I opted for LPG). Hmmm, I wonder why it never took hold here in the USA, 🤔🤔...
I've got a 393 cu in Alloy block, alloy heads running soley on LPG. It produces 525 HP. It's got a high rise manifold and starts hot or cold before it has done a complete revolution. You need the hot water in the evaporator to make it run sweet. You keep those feed pipes as short as possible to stop the gas from condensing. 😉
Greetings from Sydney, Australia....& that sprung button in the centre of the converter, is for a "start priming" solenoid. Thus the bolt pattern. Set up correctly, it gives a good shot of vapour into the mixer for super easy starting. The hottest days can require a little more cranking, but it works a treat. Of course, you can leave it bare & just press it down by hand....if necessary. Oh, & try not to run it too long without water circulating around the converter, as that freezing can ruin the diaphragm/s. The secondary result, is that you literally run out of fuel. As with any engine, a healthy cooling system is a must of course, but as the conterter requires circulating coolant, it's absolutely vital. Good luck with it all....can't wait to see what results you get 😉
Reading the comments on this video is just as good for the info. Sounds like the mule priority hit another level, good choice. After reading about the 12 or 14:1 compression a redesigned engine went out the window. My question arises about your input in a prior video about the difference between a new engine and a used engine performance factors. The used engine is already broken in giving yet another small advantage. As far as fuel goes try to match the size capacity of the gasoline tank in Propane tanks. Looks like the 40lb tank it 9.4, 30lb tank is 7 gallons, and 20lb 4.5 gallons.
In the early 80's I ran LP in my 671 Detroit in my big truck, it was used as a power adder like nitrous, it just had a line from the vaporizer to a nozzle in the intake tube. It would pull most hills a gear higher, it helped that thing alot.
@@bobbyz1964 On one of hot rod shows years back, Stacey added both propane and nitrous to a Duramax and got some very impressive numbers off the dyno. Tony knows nitrous and is learning propane, maybe he'll create something. He likes to play.
@@Skunkhunt_42 It wasn't propane but I just use blue washer fluid for water injection on my old diesel. No intercooler I would just blow it right into the turbo and let the turbo atomize it. It let me not run an intercooler for a stealth look and it would hit like nitrous when you mashed the button. Added like another 25hp on a 140hp/240ft pound 1.9 VW diesel.
I grew up in Texas, worked on rice farms in the 70’s farmers were running propane in ford F-150’s with 390 motors. What I leaned low end power took a 20% to 30% hit but top end racing hardly anything could out run them (farmers would race each other top end to determine whom was buying lunch that day, my boss never lost).
I had a propane powered 318 in an '87 Ram 1/2 ton pickup . Everything I read on propane suggested that making hp and torque numbers in otherwise identical engines was impossible . Propane doesn't contain BTUs anywhere near gasoline . Although very smooth and reliable....my Ram was more of a Slug .
Tony, we ran propaneon 70's-80s model Ford pickups back in the day. Mostly used them as parts or material runners and they did fine, the only time you noticed the hp drop was punching it to get on the interstate or when hauling heavy loads or trailers.
@@BrewBlaster I wouldn’t see why not, they run pressurized tanks with other things. They probably just have safety requirements for it. I mean they let people run nitromethane and it is very explosive.
Reminds me of when I lived in Brazil, they had something called GNV as a fuel option. It was effectively a state sponsored conversion for road going cars, complete with tax breaks. Apparently you could go twice as far for half the money because the engines ran so efficiently and cleanly.
You should contact the folks at E Controls who build the modern LP and LNG systems covering 1 to 24 liter engines . Their set-up for the 350 Chevy should be a perfect fit .Used in Kohlers heavy duty generators and lumber yard and export yard fork lifts . Fully digital and lap top tunable
Cold starts can be more difficult than gasoline, so what i do is fit a primer circuit. I tap into the higher pressure side of the converter, theres usualy a spare 1/8 BSP plug hole , I install a 12 volt shut off solinoid valve to the side of the converter and then fit a momentry switch/ button inside the car to prime the intake manifold with LPG so it has fuel avalable instantly on cold start up as the LPG has a tendacy to disapate from the mixer over time . I then run a small rubber hose over to the bace of the mixer, For ease of tunning the primer circuit I run a small niddle valve that can be easliy be adjusted for fine tuning. If you cant be bothered with all this I recomend you just crank the engine until it fiers up , this can take 9 or 10 rollovers before the engine fires for the firt time.
Propane stops vaporizing at -32. Most of the ones we used in Canada were dual fuel gasoline and propane. We started them on gas until they warmed up. Once you got the vaporizer warmed up then it would run at any temperature. Once engines became fuel injected propane as a fuel went the way of the dodo bird.
The height difference between the vaporizer and mixer should not matter, the vapor is under pressure and will flow regardless of the angle of the hose. Once the coolant hookups are made , the output vapor will be heated. You could take out the right angle fittings and let the hose bend do the directional change in the flow. Or turn the vaporizer around and put it in front of the mixer with a short hose between them. Have to experiment with that, may need the restriction or length in that feed between them. Motor will have to be under load to see what works best there.
Agreed. I have seen and driven several and have never seen one mounted above the mixer. They were just put where there was room. Usually on their side.
There is a lot to know about LP on car engines, I been working on industrial sweepers and floor scrubber for 40 years that use 2 cylinder air cooled to 4 cylinder water cooled Ford, GM, and Kubota engines. They vary from the old standard type vaporizers with simple type carburetors to a fuel injected type throttle body that uses a black box called a "Mega-Jector" and this system runs a positive pressure vaporizer that is a bit above the older styles that barely had any pressure. But we are still talking very low pressure units either way. Something like .03 W.C for the older style and maybe up to 3.0 W.C for the fuel injecting types that I work with. On an industrial system, you would have right after the tank, a filter/fuel lock, then to the regulator/vaporizer, then into the Mega-Jector, then to the engines electronic mixer. Of course these engine all have a ECM and have crank sensor, some have pre cat and also post cat 02 sensors and water temp. While there is built in diagnostics capability built into the ECM, most issues have to manually checked and gone through the old fashion way. That's where the younger guys coming into my field have big issues if they cannot just plug in a lap top and let the computer find the issue.
Mount the convertor directly to the mixer with schedule 40 pipe and elbow. Closer it is to mixer the better for startup etc. you also need to have a vacuumed shut- off between tank and convertor. Improve has a nice one that acts as filter and fuel shut-off
I have exactly zero experience with propane in automotive application, so my first reaction to the cold idle was sadness...poor thing sounded like it was running on 5 cylinders. Later, when it got a little warm and Tony goosed it a couple of times, it felt ALOT better. Very cool! Can't wait to see more.
To you young guys out there. What Uncle Tony is doing here is giving you some valuable information. If at some point in the future you need to run a vehicle off of an alternative fuel source you will have the practical knowledge on how to do this. He is teaching this in a manner so you remember what he did, not in a manner where you will need to go back and look at a video. So pay very close attention to his lesson. You will not find this kind of stuff in the a book somewhere.
@@dbaargosy4062 propane burns pretty hot in comparison to methane, however methane is more ubundant and available, Most earth's methane is vented under water. In North America the lakes vent a crazy amount of methane. Coal and charcoal gases can also be used. So yeah there are options.
Back in the 70 and 80’s I had lots of experience with dual fuel conversions on pickups and medium duty ( propane delivery )trucks. I am really happy that the propane vehicles part of my life is over. I am equally looking foreword to this. Perhaps I will figure out what we could have done better. During those North Dakota winters, we always switched to gasoline to start and warm up the engine before switching to propane.
Propane is the perfect motor fuel. It never goes bad, draws water or grows algae. It needs no pumps. The effective octane rating brings 12:1 or 13:1 static compression compatibility, which will help to make up the 20% or so power density loss in the fuel. Propane and turbos are beautiful companions. You want stellite valve seats and valves with hardened faces, or the seats and faces will start leaving pieces of themselves welded to their counterparts. Propane is a dry gas, so there is no cooling effect from liquid fuel vaporization. This problem gets worse if you run the engine fat.
Way back in the early '70s when I was a kid, and lived on a farm, all the farmers had their pickups set up to use butane. Not the farm trucks, just their own personal pickups. They had a huge butane tank on the back, right across the front of the bed, where an across the bed tool box would go. I don't know how it worked, the way they did it they could use either butane or gasoline if necessary. Running on butane solved a lot of issues. For farmers there was no highway tax on it, the engines lasted a lot longer, there was no carbon buildup, and the oil stayed clean forever. It was also much cleaner burning. And you could drive three or four times farther on a full tank of butane than you could on a tank of gasoline.
I bought a Gen V 454 that was the backup power plant for a radio station that had the same propane system on it. The guy had an issue selling it for some reason. It was the cleanest motor I ever bought. Converted back over to gas and put it in a boat. Still have some of the propane parts sitting on a shelf.
I bet that was a great setup in the rock crawler, keep the temps down when you have no air moving over anything. We had an old propane 2 cylinder John Deere tractor on the farm 30 years ago and it was just a reliable clean burning brute 👍
My grandpa switched all his tractors and his C10 in the 70s to lpg because it was cheaper per hour to run, and then he found out that they had more power and ran cooler.
Keep in mind a small tank can only evaporate a certain amount of fuel over a given time. And as the fuel evaporates the remaining fuel cools which diminishes the fuel evaporation rate even further. So while under load you might need a larger tank with greater surface area in order to feed enough fuel for given horsepower. I had this issue with a 30 kw generator losing rpm after tank gradually cooled due to evaporation process.
@royharrison1301 Hi Roy, in automotive propane applications the propane leaves the tank as a liquid and is vaporized in the vaporizer (that device that started to frost up in this video) so there is never an issue with the tank freezing. As long as it is above -40 you will be ok. I had an early bronco on propane for 9 years and I do remember one time when the coolant level was low the vaporizer actually got coated with a thick layer of ice. The engine slowly lost power and when I popped the hood to see if I could see an issue I couldn't see the vaporizer for the ice. I topped up the coolant and was good to go as soon as the vaporizer thawed out.
Mid 2000's I picked up a '84 Gas Mizer Ram. 225 with a 4 spd. Previous owner converted it to propane. Great around town, but no power under load going down the highway. Did a little research on Ramcharger Central. Found that it was best to keep the Lean Burn distributer, and they burn more fuel, by volume. There was a time when propane was 35 cents a litre, it jumped up to almost a dollar. It got harder to find automotive filling stations, and Black Betty needed clutch, and front end work. Propane doesn't like -30C. Just means you have to let the coolant get to temp. Ran a canvas belly tarp and cardboard grille cover
I ran my 74 chev C20 on LP for years, but to get the most power out of LP you have to run liquid and have water running through your regulator and it doesn't matter where it is located compared to the carb. My mixer sat on top of the Q jet so I could run either gas or LP. My tank was 120 gal and it was so nice to drive for a long ways before needing fuel. I still have all the parts to put it back on something and I just might do that.
My offroad FSJ Crom runs on propane, like you said there is a learning curve. Stock engine needs more compression, since we live above 6,000 feet we have been talking about turbocharging. Button on top of evaporator is to prime the system like a choke
Super cool my buddy had an old Crown Vic that was owned by a propane company and it ran on propane since they had a hundred miles on it had 560,000 miles on it the body was shot car was beat the motor ran great we tore it down to see what it look like inside there was no carbon there was no Ridge in the cylinders it was like the day it was made propane is a very clean burning cool fuel what a great design everybody should be running propane so way to go thanks for the great video
Man, that thing doesn't even sound like a Mopar. I'm not even sure what it sounds like, but it's awesome. It almost sounds like a hot nailhead with open headers at idle, but once you hit the throttle, that chesty, bass-y, brawny roar is like a street rodder's eargasmic wet dream. I have to admit, I'm quite impressed. I always just associated propane with horrible wheezing taxis and government fleet vehicles of the 70s and 80s, and with a how it failed in the marketplace as an everyday fuel (not because propane isn't viable, but it just never took off as a mainstream fuel). But regardless of the way it sounds, with the way the revs are so snappy and immediate upon acceleration, that indicates to me that there is some promise and potential there. It seems to be hitting the internal rotational mass of that 361 really quickly, which takes power and torque to do. I'm really quite surprised by it all. Interesting stuff. 👍
i purchased a very similar system in 2013 , it just have a huge tank and the mixer as a spacerplate under the carb ,i got so if everything went haywire i would have it mounted it on my old volvo tractor , now i am gonna use it on my generator ,,and yes the farty sount of a propane engine is brilliant
I have some experience with Propane ( multiple vehicles naturally expired and forced induced) there is much to be excited about, one Pro tip- brand new chrome Molly rings don’t like to seat with Propane, a engine with some miles on it is fine but if you’re overhauling an engine to burn propane use cast rings, also I did not see a vacuum cut out or vacuum shut off on your set up? If you do a little research you’ll find that they have the filter incorporated in them. -as a footnote I once owned a Ford ranger pick up with a 2.3 L turbo out of a Thunderbird or something it was one of the most fun vehicles I ever owned (that was on Propane)
Many years ago a friend had a dual fuel system in a beater '70's Dodge pickup that was mostly for hauling stuff around his property. He could change from gas to propane and back again with a fairly minor procedure. I didn't see that very often on older vehicles...I think it was found more on farm trucks. Most propane powered stuff back then was full time propane, and usually fleet vehicles of some sort: cabs or utility trucks.
Propane was very popular on pickups before diesels took over. Talked to a guy in the propane biz about converting a 440 pickup I had. He said the only way to save money, over gas, was filling it at home out of the tank for heating. That way you didn't pay the road tax they charged at gas stations that sold propane for vehicles. Of course that's illegal. I never did it. Today almost nobody sells propane for vehicles, so you can probably get away without the tax, but don't get caught doing it.
When I was a kid there were some guys doing propane injection on their diesel trucks and making a ton of power. It probably wouldn’t sound like a lot these days but at the time I was amazed.
The price varies tremendously in different parts of the country. Here, propane is about 40% the price of diesel. This is untaxed price. I run propane on one pickup. I have heard of people that use the fuel out of their tank for heating or irrigation illegally. (Of course, no one around here would think of doing anything illegal). Another thing, fuel is not the only cost with diesels. Thanks to our corrupt government and the EPA, they require a lot of things not needed on gasoline engines. Filters, both fuel and oil are far more expensive, DEF fluid in some cases and a host of troublesome add ons required by the demonic EPA for emissions. Propane engines will also last far longer than a gasoline engine, at least the gasoline engines with carbs. There is no raw fuel to wash the cylinder walls. They also start instantly in the winter and run perfectly from stone cold to operating temperature, can run way more compression as well.
Why wouldn't you just use straps to secure your tank the same way forklifts do? And then remove the tank and have it filled at your local RV center? I'd just have 2 tanks at home. When one gets low, swap it for the full one, and then take your low tank to be topped off later.
My welding techer built engines for a hobby and he was telling me he loved tearing down engines that ran on propane he said there so clean inside no carbon build up perfect crosshatch absolutely beautiful
U.T. Thanks for bringing propane into the picture for the unfamiliar. I feely admit not knowing the particulars of a proper installation, bit I've used a LOT of equipment fueled by propane for almost fifty years & seen the benefits of it as well as other gaseous fuels. Ak Miller (R.I.P) was something of an expert on its use, unfortunately his kingdom was primarily west coast. As Gale Banks has become something of a diesel Guru - he apparently got bored with gasoline - I think we're past due for someone to step up to Gale's caliber to bring propane knowledge, installation, and tuning to the high performance/racing community nationwide. We could learn as they ramp up. How about you, U.T.???
i am a retired professional transmission rebuilder and shop owner 45 years' worth. that TF8/727 case bolted on that engine makes a great transmission stand when they are stood up on the bellhousing. i have one under my building table that has been in use since the 80s God only knows how many transmissions have been built on it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I recently worked a quick turnaround hospital remodel. There were 3 back up generators we used for temporary power each run on natural gas. One had a 392 wedge motor a Plymouth engine. A 392 Ford truck engine and a 66 Gm v-6 just as large as a big block v-8 351 ci displacement.
I worked as a fleet mechanic for a Natural Gas utility . The propane setup is similar to the CNG kits we used to install on some of our vehicles . We did dual fuel ( gasoline / CNG) conversions and we also had some dedicated CNG and dual fuel vehicles we got straight from the OEMs . Some good things but some bad that kinda out weighed the benefits.
You need to get your cooling system going. There should be a heater hose running to your vaporizer and also your going to have hot spots in the engine that could mess with your timing and peak power. Detonation
The good is the fuel is relatively cheap but offset by the lack of range . Extended oil change intervals . Oil comes out damn near as clean as when it was put in on the dedicated CNG vehicles . Dedicated CNG vehicles run VERY well . Bad ... space taken up by the tanks . The steel tanks are quite heavy . The composite tanks aren't so bad . Dual fuel conversions are always a compromise as far as performance . The factory systems on the Ford F-150 are prone to fuel rail O-ring leaks , Regulators pounding away internally . Dual fuel conversions are also occasionally prone to backfires which blows apart the plastic air cleaner . The need to frequently clean the gasoline injectors because drivers can't get it through their thick heads that you cant only run CNG . The injectors get cooked because there's no fuel flowing through them so you periodically need to run it on gasoline for a while . Add to that a lack of fueling infrastructure in most places . Luckily we had our own fueling station but there were only 2 others in the city . Now this applies to CNG vehicles . There are a lot of similarities to Propane applications though . @@RichieRichpobutproud
Awesome! I don't recall the need to mount the regulator higher than the mixer. Reason for such good throttle response at any temp is BC propane is already fully atomized!
Where i work were have 4 bluebird vision buses with 6.8 V10 Fords and have that same or similar Roush system. Watched a Roush training video since the V10's are discontinued now there putting on the new Ford 7.3L V8's. International is putting a similiar propane powered systems on the new GM 8.8L V8's. Optional engine for the bus chassis. It'll be interesting to see how they run.
Yeah - that would have to be a damn good running setup, there! Tell me - do they run catalytic converters or are they unnecessary to meet emission specs with LP ?
The truck still has all the original parts it came with ( but a gasoline fuel tank and system) Roush adds a propane tank and stainless fuel lines and fuel injectors, all in original mounts and original electrical connections and a reflash of the ECM.
Hey big t v8s and v6s have always done very well on lpg oil stays clean dont get the excess carbon build up you do loose a small amount of pick up off the line but overall larger engine performs well on propane or as we call it lpg
In the 80's GM used the tall deck 427 with a propane system like that in cab and chassis trucks I don't remember what guys said compared to gas but obviously they liked diesels in the bigger trucks over propane but for what it was they weren't too terrible on mpgs
It is about time Tony. I can't wait for you to try supercharging it. The octane rating is so much higher than gasoline, it is gentler on parts, cleaner, simpler and cheaper. Your results will be interesting to note. As a liquid, it has far more potential than being gaseous and restricting available oxygen. Good luck!
E series Converter can go anywhere if you've got enough vacuum. That Impco CA 425 is such a great mixer. Long time Propane guy here. 2.3 and 2.8 liter Cologne V6 Turbo and 4.1 Falcon Cross flow 2bbl with CA 300 Dual Fuel Mixers. Read Ak Miller 1984 Impco Technical Services Bulletins. Chrysler was almost top of the heap on LPG in 1985.
I've pretty much been leaving comments for years about how propane is better, not for power, but for reliability and longevity. I think you'll really like it.
Looking forward to more on this Tony. Propane needs a comeback story. It was very popular in the 70s and 80s but then Auto manufacturers started leaning more towards EFI (petrol) systems. Propane systems costs to convert escalated and the propane market lost a lot of traction. Then fueling stations became farther apart. I just brought a F250 4x4 351w back to life that had sat in a tree row for 12 years. It started right up as though it had been run every day. Amazing. The antiquated system (Vialle Type D regulator) is unserviceable and needs replacing. It’s my daily driver here in Vancouver Canada. Keep having fun man.
You will need to plumb the water to it or it will freeze up and no gas mate also will incur air pockets if it’s higher than the header tank and freeze.
Tony "I'm gonna build this car to be a rolling dyno, easy to swap any engine in and out in 10 minutes, and test varies set ups" Tony, 3 days later "I found this propane system, I'm gonna install it on the 4.0" Tony a week later "I'm gonna run this Big Block with propane", ON THE FLOOR!!! lol Love ya buddy ;)
One of the street cruisers back when I was in high school was like a mid '90s early '90s Ford stepside that was black kind of blue fade with steam vapor propane fumes whatever coming up from the bottom airbrushed on and it was running on propane and he used to hit up the RV place My buddy worked at to fill it things sweet Don't know what happened to it haven't seen it in years
Maybe 30 years ago, There was a guy in town who had a Dual wheel GMC 350ci with that set up and he claimed making up to 40 mpg on the highway. He was using it for his construction business so he need to pull everday loads of tools and materials. He had it for years before he sold it. I never saw another one around personnaly. I can still remember is two huge Propane tank in the truck bed. Lol
In argentina and some places on latam use CNG (compress natural gas) aka kitchen gas, as an alternative cheap and low emition fuel. And it has a simillar setup, a mixer between the air filter and the throttle, + the regulator with diafragm and the coolant heater lines. On this one you can run the engine on fuel (gasoline) or switched to CNG compress natural gas. The thing is that you had to have the gas cilinder mounthed and plomed somewhere and it takes some of spacee and ads weigth. But its like 2/3 cheaper than gasoline so awesome for daily driver
The local gas company had CNG set ups for the fleet service trucks and vans. Their tanker trucks are diesel powered. One thing about CNG is that it's always in a gas form which required large tanks and very high pressures (up to 2000 psi). Propane on the other hand is stored in a liquid form and vaporize when released but storage pressure is allot lower then that of CNG. Both provide good starting in cold weather and add longevity to the engines, complete combustion ( lower or almost zero emissions)and don't contaminate the oil. They lack the power of gasoline. Lower BTU's and availability. I'm not against either one as per engine fuels but they never really got established in the market.
Hi Tony,look at the fuel inlet of the mixer right after the fitting there should be a adj .fuel door there. That's were you will get the A/F adj. On the out side you should see a pointer with a L on one side and a R on the other side. Adj is made with a 7/16" open end wrench.
To be fair most of the propane forklift I’ve run were pretty peppy. Yes burnouts and one dukes of hazard style jump. It’s not a bad fuel just some quirks about it.
Gen tech here and I'll attest that LP is really rough on valves. I come across air cooled generators that won't start due to low compression because the valves tightened right up and lost clearance. Briggs says 100hrs between adjustments ,and if they're ran hard they'll have no clearance. 100hrs is only 4 days of continuous running if you've got a major disaster in your area.
Back in the late 70s early 80s a few of the farmers and others ran propane on their pickups. Grandads old Minnie Moline tractor ran on propane. Dont see many now days but a farmer I know here in northwest ks still has 2 old IH grain trucks that run it. Also once in awhile I have seen dualys pulling 5th wheel campers converted all to use propane. Still alot of irrigation motors running propane and natural gas.
When i was 17 i had a 351 on lpg. Price was 25 cents a litre. These days its a dollar a litre and no one does lpg conversions anymore. Those were the days
I remember seeing an article in a mag back in late 70's or very early 80's about a BB Chevy powered Cadillac Seville with turbos and propane. That was fascinating.
I put a natural gas kit on a 5kw generator used by the ham radio club for emergency services. Where the gas feeds into the top of the carb (you just leave that mounted) it blocks the choke open. I was concerned about that and called the supplier of the kit. "You don't need a choke with gas," he explained. "The gas is already vaporized." Ahah!!! Of course!
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
I built a propane 1979 Cordoba with a 360 cid all stock except for the 727 transmission and a Comp camshaft and modified distributer timing set for propane. The stock Mopar electronic ignition module was removed and a GMC 4 prong HEI was wired in and located inside the car's cowl for cooling purposes. This happened back in the early 2000s. Propane prices and availability was excellent in those days and the car gave outstanding performance and economy. I got stopped on my way home from work because I was racing a new 2005 Dodge ram 1500 that could not overtake my Cordoba, the RCMP told me that by the time he had clocked me on radar I was doing 150 km/hr and he exclaimed that I was doing way faster than that. All I could say was "this old car can go that fast?"
That's one helluva propane accessory. Hank Hill would approve.
Propane and propane products.🤣
👍👍👍👍👍
I've run propane tractors for years. The faster rpm you get on cranking, the easier it will fire up. Oil never gets dirty, they never run hot, start at any temp.
So how often do you change oil?
No, the ones at work don't start when it's below 20 degrees out.
@@oldfordcarsandtrucks propane vaporizes at -44f, so most likely not an issue of temperatures, you need a stronger starter for more rpm's.
@@oldfordcarsandtrucks The less butane you have mixed with the propane, the colder you can start it.
Well guys, I'm just going off personal experience, if they sat outside when was less than 20 degrees, we had to pull them into the shop and let them warm up before they would start. And in North Dakota, that's about half the year.
Uncle Tony. I've run propane on my vehicles for years. I disagree about the elevated mounting of the converter. On a permanent installation, I find that the converter must be mounted below the radiator fill level because the converter needs to stay full of hot coolant, otherwise it will freeze up. Also, the converter should be edgewise(?) parallel to the direction of travel. If mounted flat (sometimes necessary because of space restrictions), a large bump will cause the diaphram to dump and cause a surge. I mount mine with the outlet at the bottom because the oderized oil in the propane and eventually build up in the converter and must be drained by periodically removing the big hose and letting it drip. If its with the discharge pointing up, the oil will build up behind the diaphram and gel when cold, causing hard start/surging till the hot water softens up the gel. Propane engines are easier to start because the fuel enters the engine ad a vapor instead of a gasoline that needs to be vaporized and possible pool inside a cold manifold. Oil stays cleaner too. One drawback is valves eating into the head on engines that are pushed hard. Installing hard seats helps. My 304/392 Internationals have yet to wear out a valve.
Edit: Dad used to drip Marvel Mystery Oil via a vacuum line from a Marvel Oiler that had a sight glass and you would adjust the drip. It would bathe the valves in oil and save the seats and guides.
Yes. All of the above. I've run converters below the mixer on a few Valiants in the 90s without issue. The 1" hose is known as 'zero' hose down here, and the engine vacuum draws the gas through, as it does gasoline through the jets of a carb. She'll start running crook once a quarter of that tank is used too, as it should be horizontal, or you'll be drawing vapor instead of liquid soon. Assuming that's a forklift tank.
@@TAVOAutotally agree with these 2 comments. I spent 20 years installing and servicing propane and lpg systems on forklifts.
Yea you are spot on, I was hoping that in the comments there would be factual info. I have run impco sets on all my v8 off roaders with great success. One thing that plagued me for a while was wind disturbance when I made a cold air pick up, you cant force air down the intake the same as petrol. One thing to know is LPG or Propane engines dont like running rich, they need leaning off. My daily driver is a BF Ford Falcon dedicated LPG you cant fault it especially when LPG is around 1.50 a litre in NZ and petrol is around 3.50 for 95 ron.
100% mate. You know your lpg.
What he said Tony.
Dead on the money
There is a little cone underneath the mixer diaphragm that can be changed or modified to adjust part throttle enrichment. Just like the metering rods in an AFB. All of the comments about how to plumb and mount the regulator (vaporizer) are pretty much spot on. Direct is best if you have room.
I installed and repaired LPG systems for 10 years and all the stories a out engine life are really true.
I took a 350 out of a FritoLay delivery van with 400k on it, put a set of rod bearings and a cam in it and dropped i. Right in a street stock race car. Never had a problem with it.
When youre so excited to try something, you change plans.
Hi, just a comment on your latest quest. Back in the late '60's we were approached by a local propane supplier (in R.I.) to run a setup on a race car. We had been running Chevys but they had a set up for a 292 Ford Y block. We set up a '57 Ford 2 door and ran it for a season. Never won but the car was heavier than the Chevys. But the torque seemed better coming off the corners. We could pull the 283's but they turned higher RPM on the straights. Short 1/4 mile asphalt track , minimum banking. Was a good experiment though.
You are proving out what so many taxi drivers here in Ghana, West Africa have told me. They say it is cleaner, less complex (more reliable) and cheaper by far than gasoline. This makes me wish my little diesel pickup was gasoline so I could convert. Awesome experiment. It sounds so responsive.
This is the direction we as a country should be going. You can gasify coal and we have a huge chunk of the world’s coal.
I remember sometime back in 1969 or '70 Hot Rod Magazine did a feature on a propane-powered 426 Hemi Charger drag car called "Propane X" that used 2 IMPCO propane carbs mounted on top of a tunnel ram. If anybody could find a copy of that article it would make for some interesting and useful reading.
I installed and ran dual fuel propane in my 1971 F250 for over 25 years. I loved the way it ran and sounded. It didn't quite have the same power as gasoline but that wasn't an issue with me. I ran propane 95% of the time but kept the normal carburetor and an electric fuel pump for options when propane wasn't available or convenience. Propane is over 100 octane and does not ping; you can even lug the engine a bit without downshifting for wide turns and it just smoothly pulled it. Propane engines like high compression, Stellite exhaust seats ( or the modern hardened seats), a fast advance on a mechanical distributor but with overall less advance than a gasoline distributor. All my experience was with pickup trucks towing a travel trailer and using the truck for work, not racing. As others mentioned the oil will look new for years, but change it sooner. Keep a spare 'butterfly' and regulator parts in the tool box. The only problem I had was stupidly running some stale gas when I ran low on propane and gluing the valves in the heads on a 390. The carb is very forgiving except for setting the idle richness on propane. That button on the regulator is used to bypass the regulator and put a shot of propane in the carb on cold days; they have a cable and bracket for installing a dash pull. I installed it but never needed it where I lived. I very seldom saw anybody else running propane when I bought fuel at the propane distributor. I did meet one guy once and he had an air chuck hooked to his propane tank which he used to run an air impact wrench to change tires. Definitely not a safe procedure. BTW propane motor fuel tanks draw liquid not vapor from the tank, so an electric shut off valve is a must. My tank was 85 gallons but with the vapor space it carried 65 gallons and you can drive a long time between fill ups. Almost every small town has a propane distributor and they are happy to sell you 50+ gallons at a time. Propane motor fuel is taxed at the same rate as gasoline. Propane has more energy per pound than gasoline but less energy per gallon. I could nerd out more but that's it for now.
3:10 IN : "I MUCH FEAR TROUBLE IN THE FUSELAGE FREDERICK..." I vote that this statement becomes an UTG T Shirt! I'll take mine in 3X please! 😃
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I agree 🍺🍺
I read some of the comments from other propane guys. The regulator should be below the water line. Use the water line that comes from the heater core so you have constant water flow to prevent freezing the regulator. Yes, mount the regulator with the outlet down for multiple reasons. Plus, you need a solenoid that is open ONLY when the ignition is hot, otherwise you will have a very bad day.
From the son that grew up delivering propane,
Mikel
In Australia are ment to have a electronic module that cuts the solenoid power when there is no tack single (that way in a accident there is no build of propane fumes when the engine is stalled but the ignition still hot)
Few years back i bought a propane 355 chevy from an old farmer that was parting out the truck. When we showed up it was a frame with the engine and trans still sitting on it. It was about 30° out that day. He squirt a little gas down the carb and put the propane hat back on off of his other pickup and it just sat right on top of the quadrajet. The engine fired immediately and purred like a kitten. I was told the rebuild had 40k miles. It was the cleanest used sbc ive ever opened up. Engine ran great when i got it in my truck. The quadrajet never had gasoline ran through it. It was also flawless. The engine never sounded as good as it did the day he fired it up on propane.
Tony this is really cool to see finally someone playing with the v8 engines on propane!
Over here in Holland it's very common to run the gasoline engines on propane because of fuel costs.
But you have to agree they run amazing on propane , easier starting and awesome throttle response.
There is some more international cylinder wear because there is no lube from the fuel.
I have run propane in my 360 v8 in my daily work Jeep truck and loved it every time!
As some one who owns a LPG powered vehicle in Australia, I am beginning to find it harder and harder to find places to fill up as more stations are removing pumps and stating that they aren't profitable any more since most of the taxi companies have switched to hybrid electric cars 😑
Hybrids, plus the additional excise that was put on LPG in 2011.
Might be converting to Fork lift tanks in my ute. Free delivery to your door
I've inspected 1960 slant six industrials that had been run in a steel pipe plant on propane pretty much 24/7 for 35 years.
There was no measurable wear on the bottom, and bores were well in limits.
Best ever , rock crawlers used this for years. Even when the rockcrawler is up side down , it will run. No danger of gasoline spillage.
When I lived in Lima Peru, I had my 1991 Volvo 940 converted to run on LPG. It was actually a dual fuel setup where I could run it on either gasoline or LPG. The car would start on gasoline, and switch over to LPG once warm. (BTW, what we refer to “propane” here in the USA is actually a mix of propane & butane, propane by itself would be way too volatile). The tank was in the shape of a tire, and was installed in the spare tire space in the trunk! I loved the setup, and my oil NEVER GOT DIRTY.
This was very common in Peru especially in taxi applications, where many cars were converted to run on either LPG, or Natural Gas. (A Natural Gas conversion is completely different and designed to withstand much higher pressures. NG holding tanks take much longer to fill, and don’t hold very much fuel due to the higher pressure, this is why I opted for LPG).
Hmmm, I wonder why it never took hold here in the USA, 🤔🤔...
Love it! That engine sounds as healthy as they come.
I've got a 393 cu in Alloy block, alloy heads running soley on LPG. It produces 525 HP. It's got a high rise manifold and starts hot or cold before it has done a complete revolution. You need the hot water in the evaporator to make it run sweet. You keep those feed pipes as short as possible to stop the gas from condensing. 😉
Greetings from Sydney, Australia....& that sprung button in the centre of the converter, is for a "start priming" solenoid. Thus the bolt pattern. Set up correctly, it gives a good shot of vapour into the mixer for super easy starting. The hottest days can require a little more cranking, but it works a treat. Of course, you can leave it bare & just press it down by hand....if necessary.
Oh, & try not to run it too long without water circulating around the converter, as that freezing can ruin the diaphragm/s. The secondary result, is that you literally run out of fuel.
As with any engine, a healthy cooling system is a must of course, but as the conterter requires circulating coolant, it's absolutely vital.
Good luck with it all....can't wait to see what results you get 😉
Reading the comments on this video is just as good for the info. Sounds like the mule priority hit another level, good choice. After reading about the 12 or 14:1 compression a redesigned engine went out the window. My question arises about your input in a prior video about the difference between a new engine and a used engine performance factors. The used engine is already broken in giving yet another small advantage.
As far as fuel goes try to match the size capacity of the gasoline tank in Propane tanks. Looks like the 40lb tank it 9.4, 30lb tank is 7 gallons, and 20lb 4.5 gallons.
In the early 80's I ran LP in my 671 Detroit in my big truck, it was used as a power adder like nitrous, it just had a line from the vaporizer to a nozzle in the intake tube. It would pull most hills a gear higher, it helped that thing alot.
Propane with your diesel?
Propane in a diesel is like nitrous in a gas engine, a power adder. There's kits for pickups available.
@@bobbyz1964 On one of hot rod shows years back, Stacey added both propane and nitrous to a Duramax and got some very impressive numbers off the dyno. Tony knows nitrous and is learning propane, maybe he'll create something. He likes to play.
@@Skunkhunt_42
It wasn't propane but I just use blue washer fluid for water injection on my old diesel. No intercooler I would just blow it right into the turbo and let the turbo atomize it.
It let me not run an intercooler for a stealth look and it would hit like nitrous when you mashed the button.
Added like another 25hp on a 140hp/240ft pound 1.9 VW diesel.
I'm curious if enough propane would manage to slip out the exhaust to burn in the manifold, might have been interesting if that 671 was turbocharged.
I grew up in Texas, worked on rice farms in the 70’s farmers were running propane in ford F-150’s with 390 motors. What I leaned low end power took a 20% to 30% hit but top end racing hardly anything could out run them (farmers would race each other top end to determine whom was buying lunch that day, my boss never lost).
I had a propane powered 318 in an '87 Ram 1/2 ton pickup . Everything I read on propane suggested that making hp and torque numbers in otherwise identical engines was impossible . Propane doesn't contain BTUs anywhere near gasoline . Although very smooth and reliable....my Ram was more of a Slug .
Tony, we ran propaneon 70's-80s model Ford pickups back in the day. Mostly used them as parts or material runners and they did fine, the only time you noticed the hp drop was punching it to get on the interstate or when hauling heavy loads or trailers.
"I much fear trouble in the fuselage, Frederick" - Felix Unger (Tony Randall) 'The Odd Couple.'
I love my propane powered Barra ford engine. It’s vapour efi and it runs tops. Had a turbocharged ls1 on propane - now that spooled harder than gas.
Tinkering around with crazy projects. Living the dream!
It would be cool to see two of those on a cross ram system.
How many btu is this engine
Will tracks let someone run a propane set-up?
@@BrewBlaster th-cam.com/video/uLuR_3PgfAU/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=VirginiaCleanCities
@@BrewBlaster I wouldn’t see why not, they run pressurized tanks with other things. They probably just have safety requirements for it. I mean they let people run nitromethane and it is very explosive.
You need to run water through the vapoiser to stop it freazing..and no it dosnt need to be higher than mixer(gas carb)
Reminds me of when I lived in Brazil, they had something called GNV as a fuel option. It was effectively a state sponsored conversion for road going cars, complete with tax breaks. Apparently you could go twice as far for half the money because the engines ran so efficiently and cleanly.
"I much fear trouble in the fuselage, Frederick." Oh man, I haven't laughed that hard in a while! Thanks for that!
You should contact the folks at E Controls who build the modern LP and LNG systems covering 1 to 24 liter engines . Their set-up for the 350 Chevy should be a perfect fit .Used in Kohlers heavy duty generators and lumber yard and export yard fork lifts . Fully digital and lap top tunable
Cold starts can be more difficult than gasoline, so what i do is fit a primer circuit. I tap into the higher pressure side of the converter, theres usualy a spare 1/8 BSP plug hole , I install a 12 volt shut off solinoid valve to the side of the converter and then fit a momentry switch/ button inside the car to prime the intake manifold with LPG so it has fuel avalable instantly on cold start up as the LPG has a tendacy to disapate from the mixer over time . I then run a small rubber hose over to the bace of the mixer, For ease of tunning the primer circuit I run a small niddle valve that can be easliy be adjusted for fine tuning. If you cant be bothered with all this I recomend you just crank the engine until it fiers up , this can take 9 or 10 rollovers before the engine fires for the firt time.
Propane stops vaporizing at -32. Most of the ones we used in Canada were dual fuel gasoline and propane. We started them on gas until they warmed up. Once you got the vaporizer warmed up then it would run at any temperature. Once engines became fuel injected propane as a fuel went the way of the dodo bird.
The height difference between the vaporizer and mixer should not matter, the vapor is under pressure and will flow regardless of the angle of the hose. Once the coolant hookups are made , the output vapor will be heated. You could take out the right angle fittings and let the hose bend do the directional change in the flow. Or turn the vaporizer around and put it in front of the mixer with a short hose between them. Have to experiment with that, may need the restriction or length in that feed between them. Motor will have to be under load to see what works best there.
Yep; every vehicle I've had on propane has had the mixer higher than the converter.
Agreed. I have seen and driven several and have never seen one mounted above the mixer. They were just put where there was room. Usually on their side.
There is a lot to know about LP on car engines, I been working on industrial sweepers and floor scrubber for 40 years that use 2 cylinder air cooled to 4 cylinder water cooled Ford, GM, and Kubota engines. They vary from the old standard type vaporizers with simple type carburetors to a fuel injected type throttle body that uses a black box called a "Mega-Jector" and this system runs a positive pressure vaporizer that is a bit above the older styles that barely had any pressure. But we are still talking very low pressure units either way. Something like .03 W.C for the older style and maybe up to 3.0 W.C for the fuel injecting types that I work with. On an industrial system, you would have right after the tank, a filter/fuel lock, then to the regulator/vaporizer, then into the Mega-Jector, then to the engines electronic mixer. Of course these engine all have a ECM and have crank sensor, some have pre cat and also post cat 02 sensors and water temp. While there is built in diagnostics capability built into the ECM, most issues have to manually checked and gone through the old fashion way. That's where the younger guys coming into my field have big issues if they cannot just plug in a lap top and let the computer find the issue.
Mount the convertor directly to the mixer with schedule 40 pipe and elbow. Closer it is to mixer the better for startup etc. you also need to have a vacuumed shut- off between tank and convertor. Improve has a nice one that acts as filter and fuel shut-off
Wow no cough no hesitation no nothing on those little blips. That would be a treat to drive
I have exactly zero experience with propane in automotive application, so my first reaction to the cold idle was sadness...poor thing sounded like it was running on 5 cylinders.
Later, when it got a little warm and Tony goosed it a couple of times, it felt ALOT better. Very cool! Can't wait to see more.
To you young guys out there. What Uncle Tony is doing here is giving you some valuable information. If at some point in the future you need to run a vehicle off of an alternative fuel source you will have the practical knowledge on how to do this. He is teaching this in a manner so you remember what he did, not in a manner where you will need to go back and look at a video. So pay very close attention to his lesson. You will not find this kind of stuff in the a book somewhere.
Yeah diy recipe for propane?
@@dbaargosy4062 propane burns pretty hot in comparison to methane, however methane is more ubundant and available, Most earth's methane is vented under water. In North America the lakes vent a crazy amount of methane. Coal and charcoal gases can also be used. So yeah there are options.
Back in the 70 and 80’s I had lots of experience with dual fuel conversions on pickups and medium duty ( propane delivery )trucks. I am really happy that the propane vehicles part of my life is over. I am equally looking foreword to this. Perhaps I will figure out what we could have done better. During those North Dakota winters, we always switched to gasoline to start and warm up the engine before switching to propane.
You look as happy as me on Christmas morning when I was 10! Crispier throttle than EFI!
When I attended automotive school in 90s, there was a Holden Torana with supercharged V6 running twin LPG carbs.
Propane is the perfect motor fuel. It never goes bad, draws water or grows algae. It needs no pumps. The effective octane rating brings 12:1 or 13:1 static compression compatibility, which will help to make up the 20% or so power density loss in the fuel. Propane and turbos are beautiful companions.
You want stellite valve seats and valves with hardened faces, or the seats and faces will start leaving pieces of themselves welded to their counterparts. Propane is a dry gas, so there is no cooling effect from liquid fuel vaporization.
This problem gets worse if you run the engine fat.
Way back in the early '70s when I was a kid, and lived on a farm, all the farmers had their pickups set up to use butane. Not the farm trucks, just their own personal pickups. They had a huge butane tank on the back, right across the front of the bed, where an across the bed tool box would go. I don't know how it worked, the way they did it they could use either butane or gasoline if necessary. Running on butane solved a lot of issues. For farmers there was no highway tax on it, the engines lasted a lot longer, there was no carbon buildup, and the oil stayed clean forever. It was also much cleaner burning. And you could drive three or four times farther on a full tank of butane than you could on a tank of gasoline.
I bought a Gen V 454 that was the backup power plant for a radio station that had the same propane system on it. The guy had an issue selling it for some reason. It was the cleanest motor I ever bought. Converted back over to gas and put it in a boat. Still have some of the propane parts sitting on a shelf.
I bet that was a great setup in the rock crawler, keep the temps down when you have no air moving over anything. We had an old propane 2 cylinder John Deere tractor on the farm 30 years ago and it was just a reliable clean burning brute 👍
My grandpa switched all his tractors and his C10 in the 70s to lpg because it was cheaper per hour to run, and then he found out that they had more power and ran cooler.
Keep in mind a small tank can only evaporate a certain amount of fuel over a given time. And as the fuel evaporates the remaining fuel cools which diminishes the fuel evaporation rate even further. So while under load you might need a larger tank with greater surface area in order to feed enough fuel for given horsepower. I had this issue with a 30 kw generator losing rpm after tank gradually cooled due to evaporation process.
@royharrison1301 Hi Roy, in automotive propane applications the propane leaves the tank as a liquid and is vaporized in the vaporizer (that device that started to frost up in this video) so there is never an issue with the tank freezing. As long as it is above -40 you will be ok. I had an early bronco on propane for 9 years and I do remember one time when the coolant level was low the vaporizer actually got coated with a thick layer of ice. The engine slowly lost power and when I popped the hood to see if I could see an issue I couldn't see the vaporizer for the ice. I topped up the coolant and was good to go as soon as the vaporizer thawed out.
Uncle, you re a real buddy. Always finding thing to play with.😃
Mid 2000's I picked up a '84 Gas Mizer Ram. 225 with a 4 spd. Previous owner converted it to propane. Great around town, but no power under load going down the highway. Did a little research on Ramcharger Central. Found that it was best to keep the Lean Burn distributer, and they burn more fuel, by volume. There was a time when propane was 35 cents a litre, it jumped up to almost a dollar. It got harder to find automotive filling stations, and Black Betty needed clutch, and front end work. Propane doesn't like -30C. Just means you have to let the coolant get to temp. Ran a canvas belly tarp and cardboard grille cover
I ran my 74 chev C20 on LP for years, but to get the most power out of LP you have to run liquid and have water running through your regulator and it doesn't matter where it is located compared to the carb. My mixer sat on top of the Q jet so I could run either gas or LP. My tank was 120 gal and it was so nice to drive for a long ways before needing fuel. I still have all the parts to put it back on something and I just might do that.
My offroad FSJ Crom runs on propane, like you said there is a learning curve. Stock engine needs more compression, since we live above 6,000 feet we have been talking about turbocharging.
Button on top of evaporator is to prime the system like a choke
Super cool my buddy had an old Crown Vic that was owned by a propane company and it ran on propane since they had a hundred miles on it had 560,000 miles on it the body was shot car was beat the motor ran great we tore it down to see what it look like inside there was no carbon there was no Ridge in the cylinders it was like the day it was made propane is a very clean burning cool fuel what a great design everybody should be running propane so way to go thanks for the great video
Lookin forward to see where this goes.. It's different which for me, makes it even MORE interesting..
Man, that thing doesn't even sound like a Mopar. I'm not even sure what it sounds like, but it's awesome. It almost sounds like a hot nailhead with open headers at idle, but once you hit the throttle, that chesty, bass-y, brawny roar is like a street rodder's eargasmic wet dream. I have to admit, I'm quite impressed. I always just associated propane with horrible wheezing taxis and government fleet vehicles of the 70s and 80s, and with a how it failed in the marketplace as an everyday fuel (not because propane isn't viable, but it just never took off as a mainstream fuel).
But regardless of the way it sounds, with the way the revs are so snappy and immediate upon acceleration, that indicates to me that there is some promise and potential there. It seems to be hitting the internal rotational mass of that 361 really quickly, which takes power and torque to do. I'm really quite surprised by it all. Interesting stuff. 👍
Man I wished I had that in my forklift at work back in the day. Id be the fastest freight mover on the dock.
i purchased a very similar system in 2013 , it just have a huge tank and the mixer as a spacerplate under the carb ,i got so if everything went haywire i would have it mounted it on my old volvo tractor , now i am gonna use it on my generator ,,and yes the farty sount of a propane engine is brilliant
It's one of those smiles that makes your face hurt cuz you been smiling so much. I just love this channel. Thank you!
I have some experience with Propane ( multiple vehicles naturally expired and forced induced) there is much to be excited about, one Pro tip- brand new chrome Molly rings don’t like to seat with Propane, a engine with some miles on it is fine but if you’re overhauling an engine to burn propane use cast rings, also I did not see a vacuum cut out or vacuum shut off on your set up? If you do a little research you’ll find that they have the filter incorporated in them.
-as a footnote I once owned a Ford ranger pick up with a 2.3 L turbo out of a Thunderbird or something it was one of the most fun vehicles I ever owned (that was on Propane)
Many years ago a friend had a dual fuel system in a beater '70's Dodge pickup that was mostly for hauling stuff around his property. He could change from gas to propane and back again with a fairly minor procedure. I didn't see that very often on older vehicles...I think it was found more on farm trucks. Most propane powered stuff back then was full time propane, and usually fleet vehicles of some sort: cabs or utility trucks.
Propane was very popular on pickups before diesels took over. Talked to a guy in the propane biz about converting a 440 pickup I had. He said the only way to save money, over gas, was filling it at home out of the tank for heating. That way you didn't pay the road tax they charged at gas stations that sold propane for vehicles. Of course that's illegal. I never did it.
Today almost nobody sells propane for vehicles, so you can probably get away without the tax, but don't get caught doing it.
House power to Horsepower?
When I was a kid there were some guys doing propane injection on their diesel trucks and making a ton of power. It probably wouldn’t sound like a lot these days but at the time I was amazed.
When do you think they will catch up on all those people charging their EV's at home and not paying any road tax?
The price varies tremendously in different parts of the country. Here, propane is about 40% the price of diesel. This is untaxed price. I run propane on one pickup. I have heard of people that use the fuel out of their tank for heating or irrigation illegally. (Of course, no one around here would think of doing anything illegal). Another thing, fuel is not the only cost with diesels. Thanks to our corrupt government and the EPA, they require a lot of things not needed on gasoline engines. Filters, both fuel and oil are far more expensive, DEF fluid in some cases and a host of troublesome add ons required by the demonic EPA for emissions.
Propane engines will also last far longer than a gasoline engine, at least the gasoline engines with carbs. There is no raw fuel to wash the cylinder walls. They also start instantly in the winter and run perfectly from stone cold to operating temperature, can run way more compression as well.
Why wouldn't you just use straps to secure your tank the same way forklifts do? And then remove the tank and have it filled at your local RV center? I'd just have 2 tanks at home. When one gets low, swap it for the full one, and then take your low tank to be topped off later.
My welding techer built engines for a hobby and he was telling me he loved tearing down engines that ran on propane he said there so clean inside no carbon build up perfect crosshatch absolutely beautiful
Simply badass. Can't wait until you have it in the car and driving.
U.T.
Thanks for bringing propane into the picture for the unfamiliar.
I feely admit not knowing the particulars of a proper installation, bit I've used a LOT of equipment fueled by propane for almost fifty years & seen the benefits of it as well as other gaseous fuels.
Ak Miller (R.I.P) was something of an expert on its use, unfortunately his kingdom was primarily west coast.
As Gale Banks has become something of a diesel Guru - he apparently got bored with gasoline - I think we're past due for someone to step up to Gale's caliber to bring propane knowledge, installation, and tuning to the high performance/racing community nationwide.
We could learn as they ramp up.
How about you, U.T.???
Gotta love the matching forklift yellow color!
you should split the propane line and set up an on demand water heater that kicks on with a timer
i am a retired professional transmission rebuilder and shop owner 45 years' worth. that TF8/727 case bolted on that engine makes a great transmission stand when they are stood up on the bellhousing. i have one under my building table that has been in use since the 80s God only knows how many transmissions have been built on it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I recently worked a quick turnaround hospital remodel. There were 3 back up generators we used for temporary power each run on natural gas. One had a 392 wedge motor a Plymouth engine. A 392 Ford truck engine and a 66 Gm v-6 just as large as a big block v-8 351 ci displacement.
It's it's crazy how old some of them engines are.
that 361 sounds sweet with the propane!!!!
I worked as a fleet mechanic for a Natural Gas utility . The propane setup is similar to the CNG kits we used to install on some of our vehicles . We did dual fuel ( gasoline / CNG) conversions and we also had some dedicated CNG and dual fuel vehicles we got straight from the OEMs . Some good things but some bad that kinda out weighed the benefits.
So you’re not going to talk about the bad?
You need to get your cooling system going. There should be a heater hose running to your vaporizer and also your going to have hot spots in the engine that could mess with your timing and peak power. Detonation
The good is the fuel is relatively cheap but offset by the lack of range . Extended oil change intervals . Oil comes out damn near as clean as when it was put in on the dedicated CNG vehicles . Dedicated CNG vehicles run VERY well . Bad ... space taken up by the tanks . The steel tanks are quite heavy . The composite tanks aren't so bad . Dual fuel conversions are always a compromise as far as performance . The factory systems on the Ford F-150 are prone to fuel rail O-ring leaks , Regulators pounding away internally . Dual fuel conversions are also occasionally prone to backfires which blows apart the plastic air cleaner . The need to frequently clean the gasoline injectors because drivers can't get it through their thick heads that you cant only run CNG . The injectors get cooked because there's no fuel flowing through them so you periodically need to run it on gasoline for a while . Add to that a lack of fueling infrastructure in most places . Luckily we had our own fueling station but there were only 2 others in the city . Now this applies to CNG vehicles . There are a lot of similarities to Propane applications though . @@RichieRichpobutproud
Awesome! I don't recall the need to mount the regulator higher than the mixer. Reason for such good throttle response at any temp is BC propane is already fully atomized!
The 361 does sound immensely happy. I do remember a Charger back in the 80's, I think it was a 440. Running on propane but dual mixers.Ran great!
Its a really cool setup , I own a 2010 F250 with the Rousch propane fuel injection system, no vaporizer needed , but an in tank fuel pump is used.
Where i work were have 4 bluebird vision buses with 6.8 V10 Fords and have that same or similar Roush system. Watched a Roush training video since the V10's are discontinued now there putting on the new Ford 7.3L V8's. International is putting a similiar propane powered systems on the new GM 8.8L V8's. Optional engine for the bus chassis. It'll be interesting to see how they run.
Yeah - that would have to be a damn good running setup, there! Tell me - do they run catalytic converters or are they unnecessary to meet emission specs with LP ?
The truck still has all the original parts it came with ( but a gasoline fuel tank and system) Roush adds a propane tank and stainless fuel lines and fuel injectors, all in original mounts and original electrical connections and a reflash of the ECM.
Hey big t v8s and v6s have always done very well on lpg oil stays clean dont get the excess carbon build up you do loose a small amount of pick up off the line but overall larger engine performs well on propane or as we call it lpg
Really cool test. I'm glad you're going in this direction.
In the 80's GM used the tall deck 427 with a propane system like that in cab and chassis trucks I don't remember what guys said compared to gas but obviously they liked diesels in the bigger trucks over propane but for what it was they weren't too terrible on mpgs
I am waiting with the keenest of anticipation
It is about time Tony. I can't wait for you to try supercharging it. The octane rating is so much higher than gasoline, it is gentler on parts, cleaner, simpler and cheaper. Your results will be interesting to note. As a liquid, it has far more potential than being gaseous and restricting available oxygen. Good luck!
E series Converter can go anywhere if you've got enough vacuum. That Impco CA 425 is such a great mixer. Long time Propane guy here. 2.3 and 2.8 liter Cologne V6 Turbo and 4.1 Falcon Cross flow 2bbl with CA 300 Dual Fuel Mixers. Read Ak Miller 1984 Impco Technical Services Bulletins. Chrysler was almost top of the heap on LPG in 1985.
🥝🥝 LKP!!
Fuel of the Future!!
@@UnfinishedProjectDartSport 🥝✔️🕴️🕳️
I've pretty much been leaving comments for years about how propane is better, not for power, but for reliability and longevity. I think you'll really like it.
Looking forward to more on this Tony. Propane needs a comeback story. It was very popular in the 70s and 80s but then Auto manufacturers started leaning more towards EFI (petrol) systems. Propane systems costs to convert escalated and the propane market lost a lot of traction. Then fueling stations became farther apart.
I just brought a F250 4x4 351w back to life that had sat in a tree row for 12 years. It started right up as though it had been run every day. Amazing.
The antiquated system (Vialle Type D regulator) is unserviceable and needs replacing. It’s my daily driver here in Vancouver Canada.
Keep having fun man.
You will need to plumb the water to it or it will freeze up and no gas mate also will incur air pockets if it’s higher than the header tank and freeze.
Tony "I'm gonna build this car to be a rolling dyno, easy to swap any engine in and out in 10 minutes, and test varies set ups" Tony, 3 days later "I found this propane system, I'm gonna install it on the 4.0" Tony a week later "I'm gonna run this Big Block with propane", ON THE FLOOR!!! lol Love ya buddy ;)
One of the street cruisers back when I was in high school was like a mid '90s early '90s Ford stepside that was black kind of blue fade with steam vapor propane fumes whatever coming up from the bottom airbrushed on and it was running on propane and he used to hit up the RV place My buddy worked at to fill it things sweet Don't know what happened to it haven't seen it in years
Maybe 30 years ago, There was a guy in town who had a Dual wheel GMC 350ci with that set up and he claimed making up to 40 mpg on the highway. He was using it for his construction business so he need to pull everday loads of tools and materials. He had it for years before he sold it. I never saw another one around personnaly. I can still remember is two huge Propane tank in the truck bed. Lol
This is great content! Impressive!
T'is the singing of angels!!!!
I’ve been in the propane business for 29 years. It’s a good thing you’ll like it. Lol.
That’s pretty cool! Figuratively and literally.
In argentina and some places on latam use CNG (compress natural gas) aka kitchen gas, as an alternative cheap and low emition fuel. And it has a simillar setup, a mixer between the air filter and the throttle, + the regulator with diafragm and the coolant heater lines.
On this one you can run the engine on fuel (gasoline) or switched to CNG compress natural gas. The thing is that you had to have the gas cilinder mounthed and plomed somewhere and it takes some of spacee and ads weigth.
But its like 2/3 cheaper than gasoline so awesome for daily driver
The local gas company had CNG set ups for the fleet service trucks and vans. Their tanker trucks are diesel powered. One thing about CNG is that it's always in a gas form which required large tanks and very high pressures (up to 2000 psi). Propane on the other hand is stored in a liquid form and vaporize when released but storage pressure is allot lower then that of CNG. Both provide good starting in cold weather and add longevity to the engines, complete combustion ( lower or almost zero emissions)and don't contaminate the oil. They lack the power of gasoline. Lower BTU's and availability. I'm not against either one as per engine fuels but they never really got established in the market.
Hi Tony,look at the fuel inlet of the mixer right after the fitting there should be a adj .fuel door there. That's were you will get the A/F adj. On the out side you should see a pointer with
a L on one side and a R on the other side. Adj is made with a 7/16" open end wrench.
To be fair most of the propane forklift I’ve run were pretty peppy. Yes burnouts and one dukes of hazard style jump. It’s not a bad fuel just some quirks about it.
Gen tech here and I'll attest that LP is really rough on valves.
I come across air cooled generators that won't start due to low compression because the valves tightened right up and lost clearance.
Briggs says 100hrs between adjustments ,and if they're ran hard they'll have no clearance.
100hrs is only 4 days of continuous running if you've got a major disaster in your area.
This I like!!! I have farmed for decades with lp engines
Back in the late 70s early 80s a few of the farmers and others ran propane on their pickups. Grandads old Minnie Moline tractor ran on propane. Dont see many now days but a farmer I know here in northwest ks still has 2 old IH grain trucks that run it. Also once in awhile I have seen dualys pulling 5th wheel campers converted all to use propane. Still alot of irrigation motors running propane and natural gas.
When i was 17 i had a 351 on lpg. Price was 25 cents a litre. These days its a dollar a litre and no one does lpg conversions anymore. Those were the days
Wow! I am amazed at this.. looking forward to seeing more of this Uncle Tony 👍
I remember seeing an article in a mag back in late 70's or very early 80's about a BB Chevy powered Cadillac Seville with turbos and propane. That was fascinating.
I put a natural gas kit on a 5kw generator used by the ham radio club for emergency services. Where the gas feeds into the top of the carb (you just leave that mounted) it blocks the choke open. I was concerned about that and called the supplier of the kit. "You don't need a choke with gas," he explained. "The gas is already vaporized." Ahah!!! Of course!