Why Does Everyone HATE Erebus? | Warhammer 40K Lore
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How to Create HATEABLE Villains (Writing Advice). Brandon McNulty
• How to Create HATEABLE...
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Time Stamps
0:00 Intro
1:19 call of dragons
2:49 Child of Chaos. Erebus Story
22:15 Is Erebus a bad character?
*Warhammer 40,000 is an IP owned by Games Workshop. All assets contained within this video are property of their respective owners. The video is made for educational purposes only and is protected under fair use.
Opinions stated in the video belong solely to Weshammer and Lore forge LLC. and are in no way shape or form reflective of those held by Games Workshop. Weshammer and Lore forge LLC are not associated with Games Workshop. - บันเทิง
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since warhammer is an ongoing franchise the wars dont stop unstatisfaction is the point
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nah, he is just a selfish psycho bastard and for that he need no corruption. For the power of the warp, the more you think for yourself, the more corrupt you get.
Mmyyn
i would love for you to make a video about the still living primarchs
When people hate Lucius it's because of bad writing. When people hate Erebus it's because of amazing writing.
So fucking true Lucius sucks while Erebus is meant to suck.
What's the bad writing that made people hate Lucius?
@milliondollarmistake Abusing his resurrection ability to the point where a Necron is affected by it and even when he stepped on a landmine he reincarnated through its manufacturer for the soul reason that he took pride in his day to day work.
@@VapidDenominator55 I've never heard of the necron one but I like the landmine death. It's just the writer having a bit of fun with the lore and Slaanesh having a laugh.
I genuinely wish that Lucia's just straight up never had that power because it makes him look like an absolute jobber in the lore. None of the other chosen get worked as often as him even though he is supposedly a master duelist
It's not why everyone hates Erebus its why you should and actively despise him.
Hate is strong word… loathing is a good one too.
Dude Literally it's Palpatine but anarchist and pedophile, how can you not hate it?
Plus the one who SCREW UP EVERYTHING IN HORUS HERASY JUST FOR POWER
I like him even tho I shouldn’t. Cause I like the bad guys
@@applecider2754 Stockholm syndrome sucks
Erebus Puts me in mind of a quote from the movie “tombstone” which reads as follows:
“What makes a man like erebus Doc? What makes him do the things he does?”
“A man like Erebus has got a great big hole, right in the middle of him. He can never kill enough, or steal enough, or inflict enough pain to ever fill it.”
“What does he need?”
“Revenge.”
“For what?”
“Bein' born”
I'll be your huckleberry...
Yes.
He's definitely Played for Blood many times...but not against Doc Holiday so.....
The fact "someone in the fandom willing to justify their actions" and it showed Wes Infront of Magnus .... I legit died
There are two rules of fight club:
1. Magnus did nothing wrong.
2. Nothing happened on Caliban
@@motherfoca1000 Lots of things happen on Caliban, and they all fall in line with Imperial doctrine. Move along citizen.
Kharn almost killing Erebus is a very proud moment for all of us World Eaters fans.
Or rylanor almost killing our favorite purple snake.
@@iluvpandas2755favourite?
@@toheekang174fulgrim
It could only have been topped had he actually killed him and made it stick.
You should be ashamed he did not actualy kill him, not proud he almost did.
Khorne does not want almost skulls.
What’s really funny is that it’s not only the fanbase that hates him; multiple characters in the books hate him too.
Pretty sure even lorgar hates him
He must've known what kharn would do after he was told that Erebus killed argal tal
He told kharn KNOWING kharn would try to kill erebus, and likely succeed
@@ragnarianyea ofc lorgar knew what kharn would do
@ragnarian I don't even like the word bearers but argel tal was such a great character. I was quite saddened. If only argel listened to raum!
I believe Lorgar hated his adoptive father and Erebus.
The two were in cahoots and worshiping Chaos before Lorgar did, and Lorgar noticed that they did not treat him like a Primarch but as their own chess piece.
Should have aborted
He's probably one of the best written villains in the setting. He is exactly what he says: a boy torturing animals remade into a Space Marine. No crazy backstory, no feeling bad for him, just a sociopath in a universe made for monsters.
Erebus, that insidious whisper threaded through the skein of reality, bore within him a darkness as ancient as the cosmos itself. He was no mere man but a storm of malevolence, robed in the guise of a preacher, whose heart pulsed with the ichor of perdition.
From his earliest breaths, Erebus' soul was a tapestry woven with threads of enmity, each stitch a silent ode to the Ruinous Powers. His was a youth not of innocent cruelties but of deliberate desecrations, each act a petal plucked from the withering blossom of his humanity. The small creatures that quivered beneath his gaze were but foreshadowing of the universe's impending tremors, for in their fearful eyes mirrored the future screams of a galaxy betrayed.
He envied as the green-eyed serpent envies the sun, for the luminescence of others was an affront to the abyss that clawed within his spirit. Erebus did not just snuff out the lives he envied; he devoured them, feasting upon the echoes of their silenced dreams to satiate the gnawing void that proclaimed itself his soul.
A marionettist of flesh and blood, he manipulated the strands of destiny with the deft whispers of corruption, his words dripping with a venom so sweet it soured the very wellsprings of thought. Erebus moved through the corridors of power as a shadow moves through the night-silent, unseen, yet blighting the landscape with a chill that speaks of doom.
His was no loud, boasting tyranny. No, Erebus was the silence when a star suffocates in the vacuum, the hush of a world's last breath, the soft scratch of quill on parchment that decrees the annihilation of empires. His immorality was a poem written in the ink of annihilation, each line a dirge for the innocence that dies when darkness seduces light.
And so, through his nefariousness, Erebus became the heart of treachery pulsing within the Horus Heresy - not just a schism, but a cosmic convulsion, a break in the spine of history-was the opera of chaos to which his soul kept the beat. Here he was neither soldier nor sage, but the composer of a requiem for reality, each note a scream, each pause a lifetime of torment within the fathomless pit of his making. Upon the stage of the galaxy, he conducted with a baton dipped in the ichor of the Warp, and from his podium of perfidy, he orchestrated the descent of heroes into the maelstrom of damnation.
Erebus, the apostle of chaos, the heretical hierophant, was evil incarnate-debauchery draped in devotion's desecrated skin. For within the churning madness of his every deed lay the seed of all atrocities: the will to bring the heavens themselves to ruin for the scornful glory of gods who knew no love.
@ViIgax that is beautifully horrific. What book is that from?
@@AAllen-br8it
I copied it from 40k article years ago, but I can't recall the name of the website.
Erabus is the one character that, in universe, could actually bring peace across the galaxy, just by uniting every faction against him in pure hatred and a desire to give him the Vlad the Impaler treatment.
I am sure the Night Lords will oblige if you ask!
@@Nyctophoraprobably don't even need to ask lol
So he's kinda 40k Putin XD
@motherfoca1000 that's actually very offensive even for him I hate Putin but I know erebus is far worse.
The Nagash of 40k
"Why does everyone hate Erebus?"
*Erebus can be described with three words...Slimy Bastard Extraordinaire. And that's the nice way of describing him.*
Agreed. He's a scum.
Stink. Stank. Stunk
Don't forget being sus
Or 'shit encrusted taint'
As Marty McFly once said:
"he is an asshole"
Im the Argal Tal novels, when rites to appease daemons were being developed, it was discovered that rites using the painless sacrifice of the willing worked, but Erebus then discovered that rites involving the painful sacrifice of the unwilling worked better because the emotion attracted more daemons. Erebus then codified this principle in the sections he wrote of the Book of Lorgar that served as the basis for the chaos cults. He SINGLE-HANDEDLY incorporated torture as the core way to worship for Chaos
Funny enough I always thought that was one the reasons Chaos lost so often. You can't call it a "sacrifice" if it's something you don't really own and don't care about. Forceful killings of captured enemies imo means far less than willing sacrifices of your own troops/followers. At least if the warp followed any logic.
It's like saying it's a burden to have a random person pay for every thing when you go out to eat.
Nope it wasn't Erebus who discovered it, but Xafen (or something like that), one of the closest friends of Arhel Tal.
hello argel tal novels im dad
But that way less people has to die, Erebus saved trillions!
@@nobleman9393nope, they pump as many numbers as possible either way, lol
I like Erebus for one major reason. He is a villain, through and through, with no redeeming qualities. He wants power without effort, murders without a second thought and doesn't even bother to question why he's doing these things. He's a villain, he knows it and he enjoys every single second of it. Not enough of those in media these days.
Well, that's like literally what is said in the video. But you just like him because of that, not hate.
@@atreidesson I wrote that comment a minute in to express my personal opinion before it could be skewed by the video. Was nice to see Wes held a similar view.
But even then, there's ways to actually make those characters likable. Darth sidious is campy and funny in his own way when he cuts loose in the movies and shows, and hanable lector is smart, and smooth talking, and leather face is outright insane. They're more likable than erebus
@@slimjim877 Villains aren't supposed to be likable as people. I don't want to sit down and have a beer with Erebus. I don't admire him or want to be like him; he is horrible in every aspect of the word. To be more specific on my original comment, I like the character of Erebus. He's written to be unlikable and clearly he's written fairly well as so many people seem to hate him.
@@Ko12395People can like hating someone. I think that's why alot of people like Erebus. They love hating that guy
I absolutely hate him, but one thing I can admit. And I slightly admire, he's very aware of is role in the grand scheme of things, he's aware of his position in the universe and he's just riding it out to see what damage he can cause. I feel like he views himself the same way a God would view a human. From a 3rd person perspective to see how far they get.
Agreed completely.
And that’s also why I find Erebus disgusting. I hate how *proud* he is of being unabashedly power hungry and manipulative.
The question should be why doesn't everybody hate Erebus?
Because he is so comically evil and a very good torturer lol.
He's a normal man not doing anything but ywt he's devious enough to KILL the Fking Emperor with his actions lol
Some of us hadn't heard of him yet. Can't hate someone if you don't know they exist
People have better things to do then hate the Warhammer 40k equivalent of Hitler.
@@darksindri... a normal man?
@@thalastianjorus More like your regular human psycho that loves hurting things lol.
My favorite villain in 40k has to be Magnus. Angron is tragic, sure, but Magnus?
He only ever wanted what was best for humanity. The Thousand Sons were *shockingly* humanitarian by Astartes standards. They were the only Legion that actively worked to preserve the knowledge and history of the noncompliant cultures that the Great Crusade was erasing. They were the only Legion other than the Ultramarines and maybe the Word Bearers (at least to the best of my knowledge) that were required to pursue peacetime arts, since Magnus believed one day the Crusade would be over (Ahriman, for example, grew grapes and made wine). Despite being regularly accused of arrogance, they were the only Legion who required their members to spend time embedded with the other Legions to learn from them. They genuinely cared for the mortal humans that they lived with; there is a passage from A Thousand Sons about one of the Pavoni biomancers visiting a humble crystal farmer *in his home* to cure his lung-blight. The majority of the knowledge that they accumulated was open to the public, for the betterment of everyone. They welcomed the Remembrancers, unlike almost every other Legion who viewed them as inconvenient necessities at best, and even helped tutor those among their number with latent psychic abilities.
Magnus was best friends with Sanguinius, who everyone agrees is the best boi, as well as Vulkan and Fulgrim. He was one of the very few who made a genuine attempt at befriending Lorgar. And let's not forget he was the *only one* who ever attempted to stop the Horus Heresy without violence, when he psychically projected into Horus' mind. He was so loyal to the ideals of the Imperium that he refused Tzeentch's offer to destroy the Space Wolves fleet before it reached Prospero, and even sent away the Thousand Sons' fleet because he knew the Space Wolves would be needed in the civil war to come and wanted to minimize their casualties. Let me re-iterate that; he deliberately tried to protect the people who were coming to destroy his homeworld and kill his sons. Even after the Burning of Prospero, in exile on the Planet of Sorcerers, his main objective was not revenge, it was to reconstruct the knowledge that had been lost on Prospero for the benefit of future generations. As Public Enemy #1, with something like 90% of his Legion killed and his homeworld in ashes, his primary concern was still to help humanity as a whole.
He only sided with Horus out of necessity, when it became clear that there could be no neutral parties in the war. There was no way that the Thousand Sons, as badly mauled as they were, could stand up to the Sons of Horus and their traitor brethren, so there was really only one choice for him at that point. During the Siege of Terra, he was still the same as he always was, trying to find a way out of an impossible situation. While infiltrating the Palace, he risked blowing his cover and jeopardizing his entire mission in order to save Imperial civilians - *enemy* civilians - from a Phosphex bomb. He only turned against the Imperium as hard as he did because of the final insult; the Emperor offering a poisoned olive branch. A chance at redemption, but with a horrific cost. It was the impossible choice he had made on Prospero all over again, but this time it was too much. Magnus turning down the Emperor's offer underneath the Palace is genuinely one of my favorite moments in any piece of 30k or 40k fiction. (It's also why I refuse to accept Echoes of Eternity as canon. ADB is a great author but he hates Magnus like a teenage fanfiction author, and casually ruined three whole books' worth of character development for a "Vulkan destroys Magnus with facts and logic" moment. If they're going to use the good old Unreliable Narrator as an excuse, that means I can disregard that since it was so blatantly out of character.)
Anyway... even in 40k, his objectives are still far more reasonable than any other Traitor Primarch that we know of. Mortarion is carving out his own plague empire, Angron is running around doing Angron things and piling up mountains of skulls, but Magnus? Aside from a little poetic revenge on the Space Wolves, his main goal is creating a utopia for Psykers. The man is genuinely one of the strongest beings in the 40k canon and all he really wants to do is chill in his library and read books.
Sorry, giant wall of text over now. I get very passionate about this subject.
Agreed.
I think Magnus is one of the only primarchs deserving redemption. I would really like him to be redeemed somehow.
I think you are missing out some of Magnus' less appealing traits there. I agree with what you have said about Magnus and the Thousand Sons pre heresy, but you are omitting a major and consistent character flaw - hubris. Massive, almost unparalleled hubris. The fact that most of Magnus' actions were virtuous fuelled his hubris further, and this is where I disagree with some of your analysis. Magnus did good things, but he did them in no small part to stroke his own ego and satisfy himself that his motivations were pure . . . which ironically was a major part of why he ended up corrupted. Magnus just couldn't let things go and accept that some things were outside of his control, and that led him to make some extremely questionable choices, from accepting Tzeentch's aid in halting the flesh-change to using blood magic to break the Emperor's psychic defences when trying to warn him about the heresy. Magnus had a Messiah complex that led him to use extremely questionable methods, and I think there was an element of his thinking that justified his actions and facilitated these choices that came from his outward virtue. Magnus spent a lot of time behaving like a hero when it was easy to do so, and that convinced him his choices were justified even when he got the calls wrong when he was faced with the hard choices. Magnus most certainly DID do a lot of things wrong, and then deluded himself into not accepting responsibility for any of his own decisions. I think his self-delusion may be a major part of why he was corrupted by Tzeentch specifically, with convoluted self-justification forming a seed of madness that Tzeentch could exploit.
I'm a thousand sons player, love my dusty bois, but Magnus and Ahriman were sacrificing humans for rituals pre heresy. When Magnus tried to intervene during Horus' corruption he did so by sacrificing scores of his followers.
Hell Magnus literally sat back as propero burned, he didn't just refuse to fight he literally sabotaged their defenses allowing a city to be massacred for his noble sacrifice.
He had some better qualities but he wasn't some humanitarian.
@@maxwaltham5853 fully agreed. I think what makes Magnus an interesting character is the tragedy. He did have many great qualities, but his few major flaws gradually overwhelmed them (with fuckery and manipulation from Tzeentch of course) to the point that he was capable of pretty monstrous acts. If he were some cartoon villain from the start his wouldn't have been as captivating. As it is, we get to see a great and noble character brought low by their failings and descending into bitterness, indifference and delusion.
Erebus is pure, unrelenting evil, but he's also intelligent, dedicated, and thoroughly self-aware. He's not a bad character in a craft sense, he's a very well-constructed, well-written villain, who drives much of the plot.
Fun fact: Erebus, or Erebos, is the Greek god of darkness and mist. He is one of the primordial beings in Greek mythology. Erebus is the son of Chaos, and the husband of Nyx, the personification of night.
Love your stuff! 😍
"My name is not important. What is important is what I am going to do. I just fucking hate this world and the human parasites feasting on its rotting carcass." - Erebus, circa M30
Apt reference.
Yo, why the nurgle hate. I thought he liked all the Chaos
New fan: What did Erebus do?
Veteran fan: _Clenches fist_ *Everything*
I had no idea who Erebus was until this video. I like him. He single handedly crafted the precise scenario that led to the Emperors demise, and plunged our universe into millenia war and darkness.
That's quite some accomplishment.
he destroyed any sense of boredom us the readers could have gotten from the 40k universe and honestly, we all owe him a huge solid
My favorite villain in 40k has to be Ghazgul Thrakka. Not only is he an almost unkillable death machine of an ork, he has style. He's everything great about orks in one huge armored package. How can you not love a guy who raids the Eye of Terror because a deamon killed his best frenemy?
I like how Erebus said he didn’t want to do a lot for power but killing someone and taking their identity sounds awfully like doing a lot 😂
In warhammer, it really isn’t.
Should have been an engineer with ideas like that lol
Compared to doing things the proper way, it really isn't.
@@RhianKristen winning is winning. he did it the proper way. ;)
High upfront investment, low maintenance cost going forward.
The only two things I'm mad about is that he destroyed the frindship between everyone in the mournival and killed argel tal
Erebus killing Tal was my jam.
I will never ever forgive him for Argel Tal.. He and his deamon were so interesting and only real friend to Kharn.
That’s what angered you? Not the fact the galaxy and the imperium is the way it is because of Erebus, Erebus is the abominable heart of the Horus Heresy and why Chaos is as powerful as it is. Erebus is everything wrong in WH40K. Fucking worse than the Aeldari that murderfucked Slaanesh into existence and Slaanesh was entirely intentional.
Never knew the guy before this vid but I like that he's a truly committed character that doesn't fall into the "sympathetic villain" trope that's become so popular. There's nothing wrong with heroes or villains that are sure about themselves. It's nice to have Superman and Joker out there to be the epitomy their "virtues."
The deconstruction of virtues and meaning is something certain people love to propagate to make a servile race of docile hedonists easily managed devoid of any drive.
He fucked us all over, imagine the rage you feel when a kid knocks down your Lego tower that you’ve spent weeks working on right at its completion. That’s how I feel towards Erebus but pushed to the max.
Not only did he knock over the tower you and your friends were building for years, he turned half of them against you and in the process stole a bunch of the blocks.
Not only did he do that but he burns down your country, destroys the farms and mines, destroyed the economy drove up homelessnesses, unemployment, is the cause of the biggest civil war in known galactic history, caused the suffering your entire species suffers and the suffering your species gives to xenos, the innocent and evil ones alike.
That is a very good way to describe it.
And shoved your grandfather in front of a bus, just to make sure there is never any joy for you.
@@raistlarnAnd then he watches your reaction and smiles contentedly because your pain satisfies him.
I think the absolute best way for Erebus to get his comeuppance is for someone exactly like him to kill him and take all that power for themselves by assuming his identity.
Or he somehow gets killed by some lowley guardsman that'd be pretty satisfying
I find that Ahriman or Bile would be perfect in doing him in.
Ahriman for some esoteric plot to "help" his Legion once again and accumulate power or Bile, because he feels absolutely nothing when it comes to Chaos and atheistically believes they are just figments of emotion. Bile is also very familiar with the Word Bearers since had one bound to his service with a bomb in his chest.
I'd say Khârn getting his second chance would also be fitting...with Erebus having nowhere to escape would be a chef's-kiss moment.
I think if kharn got a second chance at Erebus he would beat him to death with his fists.
It would be so fitting for him to realise that the chaos gods are fickle because they've abandoned him to such a fate.
Perhaps Alpharius already did and it was Erebus that got killed......
I've come up with what I think is the single most satisfying way for Erebus to get his comeuppance in 40k, and to make things even better, I think having Erebus meet this particular fate would go a long way to redeeming Lorgar in the eyes of the community as well.
Lorgar, after 10,000 years of hiding from Corvus Korax and being left alone with his thoughts, finally manages to escape his imprisonment, and after having had that long to think about his life and what led him down the path that he ended up being led towards, he has decided that he wants vengeance on all of the people who have ruined his life, that being of course the Emperor, Gulliman, Kor Phaeron, and Erebus. His very first action after being freed from his imprisonment before he and Corvus become playable Primarchs in the 40k setting is to summon Erebus and Kor Phaeron to him under false pretenses, and when they arrive, Lorgar unleashes 10,000 years of hatred on both of them in an incredibly descriptive cacophony of enough pain to make Slaanesh blush and enough awesome violence that would make Khorne ask him to take a chill pill. And then Lorgar swears to the Ruinous Powers that he will bring a similar fate to Gulliman and the Emperor before returning to the 40k galaxy with his Word Bearers to begin corrupting Imperial worlds to Chaos.
I think it's important that Lorgar be the one to finally kill off Erebus because there is quite possibly no character in the entire setting besides Horus, who is already dead, that Erebus fucked over more than Lorgar. The one to finally bring the pain, despair, and death to Erebus that we all think he deserves should be the one he inflicted the most pain on.
And Lorgars favorite and best son argal tal got killed by erebus.
As we all hate Erebus cause he kinda had a hand in just about everything, khor pheron (or however you spell his name) had a huge part in influencing lorgar. The ones that turned were turned because lorgar and Erebus knew what buttons too press and the flaws too take advantage off
At this point, I'm surprised Erebus didn't orchestrate and manipulate events to cause the Emperor and Ultramarines to destroy Monarchia.
I actually love that idea. The idea that he was the one who made sure the Emperor knew how much Lorgar was slowing the Crusade in the name of his worship and made sure the word got to him.
That would be like him
There is one thing you can admire about him.
He knew what he wanted, and he went for it.
Never thought about it like that 😂
You can also admire the way he knew himself. Very few people, even in RL are that self-aware.
@@brandond.7768there isn't much to know, he is pretty simple because he doesn't care to be anything more complex.
@@Nikotheleepicwhile everyone else doubts and questions, he knows exactly who he is and his role
Very nice and full deep video with thought and right setting, thank you for what you do mr. Weshammer
Thank you @weshammer ive wanted someone to do a deep dive into Erebus and his actions.
5:55 this does sort of imply that it was once possible for even active worship of the chaos gods to not harm those who practiced it and furthers my conviction that the imperium definitely made the chaos problem worse in every way. Though I suppose Chaos itself was already plotting to create the horrible conditions that would empower them further.
my theory has always been that the Emperor is just the other side of chaos - he wants order, but he is willing to kill and destroy for it. Chaos is willing to kill and destroy for the sake of chaos. The two sides only fuel the power of each other. The zealotry and senseless deaths of the loyalists is fed upon by both the Emperor and Chaos forces.
@@agoogleuser4859 and what would happen if the emperor did nothing? Oh wait we know what happened humanity collapsed and nearly died out.
@@Nikotheleepicfirst, humanity didn't nearly die off, there's even still planets that haven't reconnected with the imperium and half or more of the time they were paradises, remember all the peaceful planets the astartes conquered? And secondly, they were all separated because of chaos warpstorms from the birth of slaanesh. What I'm saying is that the emperor is just as bad as chaos. They're two sides of the same coin.
I like how Erebus never gained daemonhood. He’s such an evil bastard that even the chaos gods know that there’s no reward they need to give him to keep him going.
He won’t ever stop.
Good way to put it
No they fear him, he is too ambitious even for them.
Nah, I don't think they fear him, but he is far more fun this way.
I think the gods like him just where he is. As a daemon prince, he would be far less able to affect events in the material plane than he currently can with the ability to bounce around the galaxy at will and sow chaos everywhere he lands. Plus, they don't tend to like to make many undivided daemon princes, and with good reason.
This is your best video so far. The voice you did for Erebus was perfect. It has taken me seasons of shows to hate a character as much as you did in half a hour.
Hey thanks a ton for the super thanks and I'm really glad you enjoyed the video!
"So it's not done yet, Erebus. Not yet. Just watch. Just watch." That's a really interesting line, almost like the Space Marine feels such disdain for the young priest he killed long ago that everything he's done, every atrocity and war crime he's committed was done just to mar and tarnish the memory and name of the good man he stole both from
Erebus' Concept is kind of realistic. Theres just People in this World that are born evil. Not every human has to go through some Drama to turn into an somewhat understandable Villain. Sure they make for the best stories or so, but some Humans are just born to see the world burn. Is Erebus the Product of lazy Writing? Ye, sure, kind of. Is he a realistic evil SoB? absolutely. Theres no redeeming quality about him. He's there to be evil. I mean he even states it himself. And im fine with that. Not everyone can and will be a tragic hero turned villain. He was born a villain, not corrupted, not misled, nothing.
Erebus is the literary manifestation of real life Hitler or Pol Pot. Except that at least those guys got what they deserved
@@docholliday9741 you have to realize that he is worse than both of them and Mao as well. In Fiction, He is worse than Darth Vader(he is worse than Hitler, Pol Pot, and Mao) and Darth Sidious(worse than Vader)
I get you, but even then, they can still be likable. Hell, darth sidious from star wars is just a selfish, genocidal, psychotic monster that only cares about himself, and even he is still more likable than erebus.
i know that i still hate him tho
@@docholliday9741Pol Pot died of old age in Exile he was never punished for his crimes😢
Maybe something is wrong with me, but I can't say whether I love or hate Erebus, but I sure as hell enjoy whenever he is "on screen". The guy saw a powder keg next to a bunch of fuel and explosives that was the whole crusade, and decided to be the detonator for blowing the whole shit up.
F--k the no smoking sign
Man what a good watch this was, you make some of the best videos.
You do not waste your audience's time, bro, gracias.
What a good fucking video.
The only sticking point I could think of for Erebus is with this man being steeped in chaos worship, how did literally NO ONE notice? With that thought it makes me feel like some of the other characters that aren't Erebus look a touch silly or stupid. Edit: Also I feel like the sweetest punishment would be existing while aware in the pokeball gallery
How could you NOT hate Erebus? Just look at his face.
Because I don’t know this character. And I’m one of the people doesn’t get personal with fictional characters, unless of course they are being represented, terribly in a god awful comic or fanfic.
@@kaijukingdom2686watch the video and come back with that opinion, I guarantee that won't happen
#fuckerebus
I'm pretty sure that's the textbook definitions of "shit eating grin"
He doesn't have that face anymore
Horus took it. 😁
@@gamingforfun8662 okay I watched. And yeah I can understand why people hate him, he’s a fucked up character. But literally all of 40k is
He's pretty much the reason the Horus Heresy was kicked off, due to converting Lorgar (another person you should hate, but not as much as Erebus) and Horus. Literally potentially trillions of lives were taken because this one guy got funky with the Warp.
yeah fuck lorgar.
That's not why we hate him. The 40k Universe needed a catalyst, so he was a necessary evil. We hate him for what he did to Argel Tal.
@@SinsGamingChannelzNot me. That only reason I hate him.
@@hainleysimpson1507 you hate the reason the whole 40k began?
The wrong man in the right place can make all the difference.
Hey WesHammer, I'm mostly a fan of Arch; but after hearing on Majorkill's channel that you hit a bit of a slump lately, I decided to send some love in form of extra watch time and words of encouragement your way as well. I love the long form videos, and Grimdark story hour is very much enjoyable.
Emperor protects!
Thus was a great video!! Thanks for what you do, man. I love your stuff.
I like Erebus.
Literaly No One realises, without him, Warhammer 40K wouldn´t be Warhammer 40K.
He was the one who set the Stage for us , he Orchestred the Music we now dance too, he´s the one who did something , even the Traitor Primarchs couldn´t do. Keeping his Soul.
This Guy is a cloaked Skaven I am sure of it. And that´s why I like him so much.
Yep I admited it - I think this Guy deserves a Thank you from time to time.
Thanks Eri, without you there would be no Grimmdark Future with Bad Ass Epic Battles of Orc´s and Space Bugs nomming all to death, or Emo Elfs tortering the sh*t out of everyone to stay alive, while their "Brothers" weep in "floating" Worlds through the Galaxy. All while screaming Fanatical Humis running wild through the Galaxy mumbling something about an Emperor.
You´ve given us so much to Meme -- just Thanks for that =D
The irony of Erebus is that he is precisely what he is supposed to be according to his faith and morality. Sociopathy aside(, by the way I would argue that there are plenty of psychopathic and/or sociopathic characters that are beloved) The truth of this character is that by taking on the identity of Erebus he became the Erebus that the real Erebus was always thought to have been but never actually was. Shockingly this is also exactly what he's supposed to be doing for his legion. As a word bearer he embodies the quintessential nature of: By hook or by crook I am doing what I need to do to get my goals accomplished. My faith empowers me to do whatever I need to do to make sure that the " greater good" happens. And I'm going to force everyone to come along with me because I know that I'm correct. (Basically the exact attitude that the emperor has) Erebus is the poster boy for that type of mentality. I may be pretty new to the Warhammer community but I'm pretty sure " popular opinions" are less popular than what people want to pretend that they are. I haven't actually come across anyone who has had any strong feelings about Erebus who could rationally defend those opinions once the nuance of the character is represented.
very well said. nobody brings up the fact that Erebus killed Erebus and took his name as a child.
@@Volky_Volk right?,... That's the key. Erebus has a purity of mind body and spirit that embodies the quintessential nature of what the Emperor wanted in his legions and which was doubly ironically lacking in the real Erebus. The issues arrive when questioning the morality of Erebus in comparison to the Emperors morality. The subjective dogma of their own "correctness" bringing the two factions they represent into ethical conflict. Erebus uses sl@ves, okay welp,... the Imperium uses "servitors". I won't belabor the reply to list all the parallels. If one really wants to make a ASoIaF comparison here it's between Daenerys/Cersei and Erebus/Emperor. "For Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated". What the various authors and GRRM are doing with these characters is asking the readers to examine their own subjective moralizing by showing us basically two of the same characters who act similarly while at the same time compelling that reader to love one and not the other. The oversimplified "So and So character is unredeemable and evil; therefore that character must be hated" is simply childish pontificating. I'm a little disappointed to hear such an illiberal position being taken in this video with regards to this character.
The thing about Erebus is that he is a fool, really no better than Goge Vandire. The chaos gods used him to damn the universe while letting him think he was the one using them. Erebus just got off on playing with people and was too wrapped up in his little game to realize he was also just a pawn. The Emperor on the other hand had a solid plan that almost worked, he had borne witness to thousands of years of human suffering and he wanted it to end. Had the human webway project worked then humanity would have been safe from the chaos gods and united in a new golden age of technology. The Emperor always saw himself as the servant of mankind, Erebus just wanted mankind to serve him.
@@RevRaptor898 You are proving my point,... You have the impression of these ideas in your mind because the novels are compelling them, but examine what is actually known about these characters and their actions and one will see that these are relative perspectives; not objective facts. Case in point, The readers are shown what Erebus' motives are, and from his own characters point of view. There is no pontification or justifying., just pure sociopathy. He is the id. Whatever ideas you have about his intensions or failures are your perspectives, not the characters. Conversely we actually have no idea what the Emperors true motivations are., as they are never unequivocally stated from his own perspective. The reader is only given examples of the perspectives of his followers or detractors...(And one can be fairly certain that the Emperor was never actually showing his true nature . physical or otherwise, to anyone or at any point in time. You cant tell me that he, a dozen foot tall man was walking around earth for thousands of years and no one noticed. That's absurd, ) Once again any judgment on motivation rests solely in the subjective opinion of the readers ( purposefully I might add) . Objectively the only true area where one can compare the relative merits of the characters "goodness"/"evil" here are by their ( and that of their followers) actions and the affects of those actions. Doing so one concludes that the Emperor just has better galactic PR.
And no the Webway would not have "saved" humanity. Just the same as the warp bled into "normal space" when the Old Ones used it. Remember the "warp" is just a tool, Chaos is merely a manifesting force of the id being fueled by the tools users. To destroy "chaos" one has to destroy humanity. By passing it ( ironically by using a technology tat relies on the warp to actually function) , doesn't remove it from the equation.
@@christophermitchell7001 Dude you need to learn a bit more about Warhammer. There is a story of the emperor meeting with the other eternal's before the great crusade and making the primachs. Two of them helped him with his project, so we know exactly what he wanted to achieve. Also the webway he was constructing was a new version shielded from the warp. Magnus busted the shield opening it to the warp that's what he got in trouble for. With the new webway warp travel would no longer be needed meaning warp storms can no longer affect travel and less contact with chaos. This means systems will no longer be cut off, trade and travel would be restored to golden age stability. This means humanity can enjoy a new age of peace and prosperity, thus saving them.
I love him because of his deep connection with the Chaos powers. He feels so ancient and ruinous, and all the short stories involving him going over all of the galaxy to unleash the buried dark mysteries are just awesome (Athame is my favourite, and there he is only a part of the chain of evil and satanic characters; Mark of Calth, all books with WBearers...)
Wes, this just might be your BEST video I’ve ever seen! Keep up the good work, fellow battle brother nerd 😊
Honestly my view is Erebus betrays every one but always seems protected from the consequences by god level plot armor protection. It's not because he's smart, he just always gets a free pass when people come after him imo.
Like every workplace backstabbers?
@@V.B.Squire yep
To be fair, he has all 4 on his back. He is probably one of the most effective agents of chaos in all of Warhammer history.
@@ArgentumFox id say THE most effective agent. Seeing as without him, the imperium would have won.
Let's be honest; that's EXACTLY how he wants it to be too
He's actually in my top 5 favorite 40k characters. He's basically the reason the Hersey happened, or at least the most important tool for the job. Plus child of chaos is an amazing short story.
I do gotta give some mad props to the quote at "19:50" where Erebus basically just stops, looks at the camera and goes "...What? You thought there was *reason* for my bullshit? A justification? Listen friend, I don't know if you've read the last 80-odd books or not, but I clearly LIKE being evil, and more to the point, not only am I just BETTER at it than everyone else, I'm also having the most fun out of anyone in the universe." There is something undeniably captivating about watching a character who's completely self-aware about how scummy they are.
...That being said, the fact that the entire setting of 40k is basically irrecoverably @#$%'d, and yet Erebus is just, out there somewhere, probably sipping on a Space Martini and driving a Space Maserati is some absolute bullshit lol...
Most excellent character breakdown. Super appreciate the literary framework and analysis. Many thanks, Wes!
The scene transition in Betrayer to Lorgar telling Kharn who killed Argel Tal, to Erebus in the WE arena is amazing because you JUST know that the greatest and most deserved ass whooping is about to happen.
I was very excited when kharn called out erebus in the gladiatorial pits. But of course he had to escape...
When it comes to Erebus' comeuppance moments I actually find them to be near perfect. If Erebus was just killed he propably wouldn't be rependant in any way and given Chaos' non-commited relationship with death, I think he'd just come right back and that would just boost his ego. In the case of Kharn, he is made to feel powerless and has a small crisis of faith. Even after the fight, he's lashing out at his subordinates for seeing his wounded and weakened state. And the Horus incident took away his control of the situation, forcing him to just observe with no real influence as Horus flayed his face. Both situations took away his power and control, the two things he values most. And it's propably the best we're gonna get in a galaxy like this.
However, if we wanted a permanent end to him... I'd say the most satisfying comeuppance would, in my opinion, be if he was killed by Kharn and then taken by this new Tau god and his soul kept in a stasis from which he can do nothing but observe.
No power, no Control, just an endless imprisonment by a god he never believed in.
I honestly love Erebus.
I have only recently got into Warhammer 40K, just finished book 9 of the Horus Heresy, Mechanicum.
Though in the first 3 books or so, Erebus had a huge presence, and despite having a rough idea of what will happen (Horus turning traitor), I had no idea by what mechanism.
Considering, as the reader, I foresore Erebus being the catalist to Horus' actions a mile away, and how much the books love telling us how intelligent and amazing the Primachs are.
I have now concluded that I am smarter than a Primarch . . .
Thanks Erebus.
Dude... your channel is my first contact with WH40K novels and this is my third video... I loved this character, this guy seems friggin amazing
As much as we hate him (because he's a great bad guy), there's no reason he isn't a Daemon Prince yet. It would be awesome for the lore if he ascended.
I find it very ironic that the men who caused all of this to happened hasn't because a demon prince. Maybe the real question are the Chaos God's actually afraid of Erabus? Remember that Erabus is a Choas undivided worshipper and there is extremely few demon prince that are Chaos undivided and the number 1 reason is because it is far harder to control them. A men like Erabus is far harder to control then a men like Horus
Even the chaos gods think he's a dick
@@ericmacrae6871Nah, they just don't like him either.
Lazy Boy would have to WORK to become a prince.
Fr fr
I dont play any of the games but these videos are really interesting and the world of warhammer in general
I don't play but I paint minis and read books.
Maybe start reading a few books, they're extremely entertaining and the WH setting is amazing.
You should definitely check out the Space Marine 3rd person shooter game that has a sequel coming out.
As well as potentially Warhammer 40K: Darktide... Warts and all, it's a fantastic setting piece in the universe.
Yup, I just got into Warhammer after seeing it years ago in barnes n nobles as a kid n always wondering what the interesting fantasy world was
I don't play anymore since.. years.
I don't have nor the friends nor the money for it.
And I agree, the warhammer 40k setting is fascinanting, I'm still into it despite not playing at all
Try out some ciaphas cain audiobooks, that's where these videos sent me and they are good stories.
But the stories go on forever and there is so many single stories or series to just go on forever.
‘Secrets even the gods don’t know’
Kairos and titsnitch would beg to differ
"Secrets even the gods don't know."
Tzeentch, who is _made of every thought to ever exist, does exist, and will ever exist:_ "LOL"
My favorite 40k and 30k faction are the chaos space marines, so I've got a lot of villains to choose from. I can only really narrow it down to two, they are Iskandar Khayon and Perturabo. The former for being a deep exploration of just how miserable the life of csm is and how some still manage to find some shred of brotherhood and purpose in a world where they have almost no allies. And Khayon himself is a refreshing take on a chaos marine, who has thoughts and even dreams beyond hatred or revenge. The latter, because he is a prime example of how insecurity, unchecked anger and low self esteem can lay low even a demigod like Perturabo. I like how you can easily argue that his fall to Chaos is the Emperor's fault just as much as it's his own. As for overrated, after having read the first 2 HH books, I think Horus gets a bit too much credit at times.
I think once Erebus becomes playable, any army that has him will use his model as a lightning rod
-Sees easy objective
-sees Erebus on the other side of the field
. . . .
-commits all forces to put a lightning claw up his a$$ sideways
He reminds me of Kimblee from FMA Brotherhood. He didn't lie about his goals either and willingly did everything he could to see which side history would chose as the victor.
The amount of work he puts into his concept of "not working" is astounding
I hold out that in Corvus's crusade against the Traitor Legions that he has a plan for Erebus.
@18:15 i can simplify how bad the horus heresy was to the imperium. In 200-300 years of the great crusade and the horus heresy; mk2, mk3, mk4, mk5, and mk6 armor were made. After the heresy, we had mk7, mk8, and mk10 was made. In 10,000 years, there were only 3 new armor mks for the space marines.
Erebus is like the Joker. He doesn't need a reason or justification to be evil. He just does it. And that's why he's awesome.
True
That’s not awesome, that’s horrifying.
The whole video was about how this is not the case with Erebus. Joker was a highly emotional character who first went through the bad side of the meat-grinder society and ended up being the character that might be similar to Erebus in some manners. But Jokers actions are merely just a reflection of his pain caused by the duality of human society - which he admits in his rare 'sober' moments. But Erebus is written specifically not to be relatable, or liked - two things you can definitely do with the character of Joker.
The Joker is much more likable.
@@XHobbiesPrime Erebus is not meant to be likable. That's why he's kino.
I hope you're doing well wes , make sure to take care of yourself bro , thanks for the content and much love to you
wes should do videos summarising old campaigns on table top that progressed the setting, and one day start doing deep AoS lore vids
You’re STILL the BEST Warhammer content creator here!! Keep it up Wes!
Since I predominantly read Mechanicus and Necron content (gotta scratch my cyborg/robo science fetish) this video is greatly appreciated as I've also wondered what the deal was with all the Erebus references I see in forums. That said, your summary of him actually makes him sound rather badass, and I feel like your closing thoughts on him are a bit of a disservice to how his arc turned out - as described at least, since I have no formal knowledge from his books.
I can easily imagine Chaos fans loving this character, at least they should. Erebus may have started as a slovenly, self-interested and self-motivated slug of a man, but it sounds like he deeply committed himself to Chaos ideology. His quote on the purity of his convictions and beliefs is surprisingly poignant considering it's truth - I'm not a religious individual, but that level of zealous faith is, frankly, incredible.
Without knowledge of Erebus it seems like the Imperium under the Emperor fell to decay for a myriad of bad decisions on the Emperor's part, and while his hubris and treatment of his sons earned him no favor Erebus's role plays a direct counterpart to what the Emperor sought more than any other character. Erebus seems monumentously like the counter-force to the Emperor, where both are unstoppable forces clashing in ideology - and Erebus won. Through practically utter force of will his machinations brought low the Emperor's war engine and splintered the Imperium into the rotting shell that it is in 40k. Tzeentch must absolutely love this guy.
Etebus reminds me of one of Shakespeare's Irredeemable villains, Aaron the Moor from "Titus Andronicus." Look up the speech he gives as he is to be hanged and you can see why.
Everyone always love a good very bad vilain that fits the lore perfectly lol
I like Erebus, he is worthy of his essential role in the grand scheme of things 👌
And in a way, one of the rare free minds in the all Imperium back when he joined the SpaceMarines… he had no illusion about the imperium or the emperor, etc.
Truly a perfect vilain like they must be for a good story, at least him, he truly deserves to be despised… which is what matters the most for the credibility of the bad guy after all.
Great video, I enjoyed this one a lot 😁
Such an amazing video Weshammer. I learned so much about creating an amazingly written bad character. And I will use the tips on the book I am going to write. Also I love the background music so much, can you give me the name of it. Thanks again.
“They hate us cause they ain’t us”- Erebus
He’s the only character whose been entirely true to himself. And in the grand scope of things dating from the start of the heresy to the shitfest 40k is, he’s one of the only characters whose WON.
entirely true to himself, u forgot our boys ogryn. fuck erebus
@@vincentprime740 patsies
If lorgar is known for fiddling choir boys, erebus fiddled the god damn eclisiarchy
you should do more space marine character deep dives!
I recently finished the 5th book of the heresy and what shocked me most was the process of change of Julius Kaesoron - I kind of liked him in the beginning and seeing him turn into what he is at the end of the book....that was just heartbreaking - seeing a proud and noble man turn into this decayed monstrosity...and I cant get rid of the picture of him doing what he is doing by the end of the book...
I like erebus and I do not regret saying that but I like him because he’s such an evil bastard and doesn’t apologise for it doesn’t shy away from it that’s why I like him you know he’s a good villain when you hate them. Ps he’s also the single most effective marine to ever exist
I'd say Erebus got his comeuppance as much as possible in a grimdark universe with the Kharn beating and face flaying
And by that you mean he's one of the leaders of the word bearers and is totally fine and Kharns become mentally disabled via a blood fetish, that's not really payback lil
i know about warhammer 40k just very recently, Erebus is probably my most liked character. the world is full of heros and likeable kinds, and a successful true villain is rare.
Erebus: I'm the hand of destiny
Kharn holding Erebus's hand: You mean this hand?
I watched this when it came out but I just didn't comment anything like I normally do, but my favorite "Villain" in 40k is honestly Angron, his story is amazing, his past is amazing, it's all amazing, he's well written, well perceived, and has deserved his position in the spotlight, he's the prime example of you lose everyone and everything you love, and you just keep going out of spite or hate for the living, I love him with a burning passion and I have always been willing to defend him, anyways that's all I came back to say, Bye guys! Also love you and your videos wes! You're the best 40k youtuber I've ever had the privilege of watching and listening to
Another brilliant video bro.
Could you do something with Baldermort?
He would be great as a VA for one of your story recaps
There are a couple of things to at least respect about Erebus, he's insanely driven and he stayed true to himself.
Honestly just started watching your videos wes as well as getting into the 40k universe and I have to say I don't hate Erebus, in a twisted way I respect everything that he is as he said he's never lied to himself about what he is or what he wanted to become. But the thing that gets me giddy about all this is that his plans went over way too smoothly in this universe things going exactly as they planned from start to finish is unusually a prelude to their catastrophic end, which makes me wonder when is erebus' fall. And maybe because we was this despicable from the jump and so compatible with the chaos gods he won't ever face that fall. Little note haven't finished the video so I don't know how his story ends but if you read all this, good for you. Here's a cookie 🍪
If it weren’t for Erebus we would get a peaceful setting with no war, this is why I like him
While I agree with you, I still despise his character, respect what it represents but still fucking hate him
understandable. He is supposed to be a jerk
I need am Inquisitor over here, there is a high possibillity of serious heresy.
Inquistor? This comment right here...
Somebody needs to go get kharne Erebus is trying to proxy defend himself
Yes! The shirt was still available. I got one. I love the design.
Also f*** Erebus
I don't think it's possible to create someone without admirable traits. The Black Mana color of MTG explains the admirable traits of Erebus: his pursuit of personal power at all costs and remarkable scheming is admirable. For every powerless person with intrusive thoughts of how they wish they could get back at the world, they'd see themself in Erebus.
Also like he said. He never turned or questioned. gotta respect that alittle.
I imagine this bastard dancing to "Safety Dance" when he is alone as the Imperium turns into a fiery fluster cluck 😂 Truly a mind of Frilliant Buckery lol
Erebus is the reason all this nonsense we love exists, everyone should be thanking him
No Erebus, no heresy, no current setting or lore.
Hated? Abso-fucking-lutley!
Perhaps the most important character to the setting? 🤔
Almost certainly.
Murders a child and takes their face.
*Alpharius & Omegon taking notes*
A&O: "Go on..."
I think the best way for him to die. Is for the forces of Korn to figure out that he is the one responsible for everything that would make his skull the most valuable.
Hey Wes.. First of all, thanks for hours upon hours of entertainment.. But I can't help to notice your production and how fast you are making new videos..
If it start feeling like a job you aren't as passionate about.. Even if you took a month off hiatus, we would still be here as soon as you are back. Care for you man, please don't ignore the signs when they start, and take a break when you need to..
Thanks I appreciate it. It can definitely be a lot sometimes and I end up working none stop. But I enjoy what I do and know when to stop or ask for help when I need it. A lesson I definitely had to learn the hard way 😅 I'll probably post a few more then take a week off.
@@weshammer Damn, then you are EXACTLY like me in that regard.. It took years for me to stop the cycle of ignoring signs, knowing of the concequences and still not being able to stop at the start of the signs.. Only stop once I start passing out during work.. I really hope you are a faster learner then me..
All those abuses of our body over time add up.. You might not feel it for decades, but when you, you do.. Also please try to get 7 hours of sleep at the minimum..it is a biological need we often forget about in capitalism.. You also cannot make up for it, if you skip a night, you cannot negate it by sleeping next time for 14-16 hours, it just doesn't work that way. For you as a writer, you want creativity flowing, the energy and the drive to create, and big part of it comes from a well rested mind.
If you need any motivation for it, just think about one of proven facts about lack of sleep is that it makes chances of early set of dementia a lot more..
Cheers, for never having writers block, for your health and also for finding balance in all the things you do. Take care Wes ;)
Everybody Hates Erebus
Honestly this video has made Erbus one of my favorite characters, mostly for his monolog you read. I love 40k's over the top dramatics. It's grand declarations of devotion and courage, it ingenious machinations, and it melodramatic well everything. But when I heard that monolog it just felt nice to see a character that actually gets the state the 40k galaxy. That everything has gone to complete shit and he is just here to revel in the the sorrow and bring these assholes down a peg. And not because he has some grand thesis about the universe or how to fix it, but just because its fun to him.
Now you have to do a video about hat favourite wordbearer. (If you already have, link pls!)
EREBUS!!!??!!!! *Probably the emperor on the golden throne right now*