I like how you set up this whole series explaining that we have Admiral Ross who worked well with the Romulans, Admiral Paris who worked well with the Klingons, and Admiral Nechayev who worked well with the internal politics of Federation members. The strength of the Federation was always having someone ready for any situation, and when those officers worked together they would become more than the sum of their individual abilities, which is what the Dominion discovered.
So, Owen Paris was the William Halsey to William Ross's Chester Nimitz. But with the addition of his own boldness, having the leadership trait to find similar boldness in others. It is unfortunate that he did not make any appearances in DS9 episodes. Though I guess that is partially what your Dominion War battlespace episodes are for. As for Legacy, there are still opportunities for his own decedents to live up to or even surpass him.
Owen Paris also had two daughters older than Tom, ones that cut contact with their father, and then Tom at a later point after the incident that started Tom's spiral. There were also hints that while Owen wanted to be involved in his kids lives more than his father did, he didn't know how to do it which led to the estrangement from all of his kids before he buried the hatchet with Tom over the course of the series. He seemed to be described as the almost overbearing and controlling type parent. Not sure if it was in the series or in Beta, but there's a conversation between Janeway and Tom Paris about how after he joined Starfleet, that it seemed like Owen treated the officers he'd taken under his wing more as his children than he did his own kids, who he treated like unruly cadets. Owen also, probably, became an Admiral earlier than Wolf 359 since Tom always described things as growing up with the Admiral, so it would have been a promotion when he was young Honestly, it kind of adds to the father/son relationship there with things of Owen trying and failing because he didn't know how else to handle things with it.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly well done and very nicely well informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on Admiral Owen Paris on his life and family structure and on his various command structures and various starship's he was on and of his various missions and duties required of him indeed Sir!👌.
He essentially as you say a talent spotter and career progressioner in training the next ge station, but much more importantly a firefighter and problem solver during the dominion war wherever the federation needed him. As well as a decent choice to managed joint operations with the Klingons.
I have read some of the Voyager novels, as well as some of the early Voyager episodes including one that extensively covered the background of Tom Paris, along with the relationship with his father. Admiral Owen Paris was overbearing and intolerant of his son, Tom. His involvement often crossed over into interference, building resentment into his son. It was these reasons along with Tom's own flaws that led to the accident that claimed those three officer's lives. Admiral Paris was there for the first hearing when Tom was (incorrectly) exonerated after lying under oath. He turned his back on his son after discovering the truth. There was no resolution, just a magical end to the animosity.
To be fair finding out he's safe after disappearing in the badlands and finding out he's part of the reason of the ship's survival can shape the look afterwards.
I think Tom Paris is definitely an unreliable narrator, especially early on. It’s a big part of his personality that he has to get people ‘on his side’ and he does that through a sob story with his well known and respected dad. I’ll also die on the hill that it was Owen that told Janeway about Tom, to help exonerate or at the very least commute the sentence of his son.
@@Meritania It's specifically mentioned, not sure if it's beta or alpha, that Own didn't agree with Tom being recruited for the mission there. Tom's sisters also cut him off completely, with a mention that when everyone else was rushing to contact family to make sure they were alive after Wolf 359, that they were not ones doing so. They also cut him off when Tom joined the Academy and barely had any contact with him either and fully cut him off after his conviction. A lot of things pointed towards Owen not knowing how to deal with his own kids, treating them as he would cadets under his command rather than his kids, and Tom's issues with his father really took off after he was in starfleet and, to him, it looked like the students and officers he took under his wing were treated more as his children than his actual kids were. Tom also seemed to always refer to his father as "The Admiral" which means the promotion to the rank happened when he was young or even before he was born...but only really shifts to calling him his father after his realization in the episode where he's in the brig and working on the letter to his father over things.
Could the event of "wolf 359" has save the federation? What would have happened with the federation if this battle never happened? would they be ready for the war with The Dominion?
I feel like wolf 359 was a reality check like if they were able to drive off the cube their ships would have been able to in theory handle the dominion fleet maybe a little better in canon though, basically the federations mindset of the tos era, basically their more militant nature compared to TNG era, would have prevented wolf 359 or it wouldn’t have been such a devastation.
"If you can't handle a bloody nose, I suggest you run back home and hide under your bed. It not safe out there. The galaxy is full of wonders... and horrors beyond your immigration." -Q
VGM did you notice that the USS Ambassador has the registration number NCC-10521 while the USS Galaxy has NCC-70637 do you think what i think it means that 60116 ships were built and put into service in 30 to 40 years.
@@SuperGamefreak18a possibility but i find a Not that elegant one. I have a Double down Suggestion. The Numbers are for every komplette draft of a ship. There are blueprints somewherenfor the uss 12345 to 9 but they only build the uss12350.(Or yes they round Up to the nearest Zero and start with one once the lead ship IS in drydock)
@@SuperGamefreak18 but that doesn't make sense as NCC stands for naval construction contract meaning that it would have to be sequential for this system to be easily recognizable and easier to use.
If we accept registries as (generally, I'm looking at you Oberths) chronological based on when they were ordered (which I do), there can be a good amount of time between ordered and laid down dates. Case in point - USS Stargazer. NCC-2893. Commissioned 2126. USS Hathaway, NCC-2593. Commissioned 2285? USS Constellation, NX-1974. In service by 2278, still NX in 2293. Seems like Constellation-class construction was heavily strung out compared to when they generally appear to have been ordered. It does feel weird that it seems like Starfleet only does a "batch" or two of ships and that's it (based on registries being generally clumped together for all known ships of a class) unless it's an Excelsior or Miranda. Feels like we should have dozens of different classes on screen any time a fleet is assembled, and almost never multiple of a class. But as a fun consideration... what's the highest registry ship that appeared or was supposed to appear in PIC S3? Memory Alpha provides USS Gregory Jein, NCC-103145 in 2401. Then we have USS Titan, NCC-80102, that entered service in 2379. If registries are chronologically assigned... that's ~23k registries in at most 22 years. A bit over 1000 registries a year for 22 years. In comparison, we have USS Sao Paulo, NCC-75633, that entered service in 2375. So, between 2375 and 2379 (USS Titan), we had ~4.4k registries, or ~1.1k per year. Man, the loss of the Utopia Plantia yards cut Starfleet's ship ordering by ~100 ship registries per year. :D
Its amazing how often history repeats itself. With the federation having dedicated itself to peace AND its not just human. Ike would've been forgotten. A relic of a sordid past. So its more likely that someone would've emulated him, without knowing him
You talk a lot about the topic of starfleet rexpansion and rebuild post Wolf 359. Will you be doing a video on this process or if there is already one of them could you point me to it as it feels like an interesting and important topic. Especially as it probably saved them come dominion war (Q probably being the trickster mentor that he is- yet again!)
My top 5 Star Trek Star Fleet Admirals #5. Admiral Nechayev #4. Admiral Kathryn Janeway #3. Admiral William J. Ross #2. Admiral Maxwell Forster #1. Admiral Owen Paris
His view seems almost like the that of the Napoleonic war royal, good crews, and officers will win out over superior firepower or other technological edges. With a dash of Nelson in there for the kind of genius boldness.
Yes Starfleet in the era pre the next generation is both in its golden era and at the height of its optimism and perhaps arogance. It thinks that the era of exploring is going to continue for a while and there arnt many enemies so is quite small. It takes things like the Cardasian Wars border incidents with the Romulans, the Borg and the Klingon Civil War (where getting 40 ships is a struggle albeit post 359) to get it building up its strength again.
6:55 That seems a bit high. How many ships do you see Starfleet having at the time of the Battle of Wolf 359? 11:05 So he approves of his son's choice for a wife? Also, isn't that how Starfleet operated back in TOS?
was his name ever said in Voyager? I don't remember it ever being said out loud. Then again, I was pretty young when Voyager came out so it's very possible that I just missed it.
Yes i think it was said several times during the show ie in the episodes where they found a huge satalire network in the delta quadrant which spanned all the way to near federation space. Belana tries to down load some messages and she says to tom "do you know an admiral owen?" "Admiral owen paris. My father".
don't know about the Son bit... I would say that Tom Paris who traveled with Janeway is brilliant (if broken), and seems to be leaving quite a legacy by the time of Lower decks rolling around... certainly he is one of the faces of the new, post-war Starfleet... and (at least by the B-cannon stuff) has a somewhat cross-species cultural influence in the galaxy beyond Starfleet itself
He also managed to form Delta Flight in the STO timeline, and he's noted as being better with mixed and non-standard or non-starfleet groups than the more regimented Starfleet ones...
i never knew owen paris was found of klingon stuff, i wonder post voyager he and belanna got on at all. considering she has a Qn'ons sized chip on her shoulder
In one of the books, Owen knew B'elana's father, and it was hinted that he knew what happened with him and it wasn't what the Torres family knew at the time, he'd gotten pulled into an Intelligence thing during the Cardassian War that got him killed behind enemy lines while the Admirals involved in it covered up the entire thing. He uncovers that between Voyager getting back in contact and B'elana's mothers death, but couldn't find a way to contact her to inform her of what happens...Torres is told about it after that point.
So, with all this in mind, that he was a great motivator and team-builder, who wanted to be there for his kids... How did Tom Paris turn into such a little Sh@t?
@@weldonwin Locarno isn't Tom Paris, that's been cleared up with things. Tom's thing was that he attempted a more dangerous shortcut through a storm, it got several of his friends and a fiance killed, he was the only survivor of it. It was more random chance there and a rather low risk...and he owned up to it. The books have him refusing his fathers help to get him off there. Locarno was a dick who wanted to pull a fancy maneuver that hadn't been pulled off and had already nearly killed several people...then tried to cover it up after getting one of his team killed.
RIP, Richard Herd.
I like the focus on individual character stories from the Dominion War period. Cheers! 🍻
I like how you set up this whole series explaining that we have Admiral Ross who worked well with the Romulans, Admiral Paris who worked well with the Klingons, and Admiral Nechayev who worked well with the internal politics of Federation members. The strength of the Federation was always having someone ready for any situation, and when those officers worked together they would become more than the sum of their individual abilities, which is what the Dominion discovered.
Tom Paris: daddy issues
Owen Paris: Also daddy issues
It's daddy issues all the way down.
I mean owens daddy issues were that he didn't have one so perhaps overcompensated when raising tom.
Fun trivia: we see the Kelvin timeline version of Tom’s grandmother as a Starfleet admiral in one of those movies
Shohreh Aghdashloo as Commodore Paris in STAR TREK BEYOND (2016).
W video. RIP, Richard Herd.
So, Owen Paris was the William Halsey to William Ross's Chester Nimitz. But with the addition of his own boldness, having the leadership trait to find similar boldness in others. It is unfortunate that he did not make any appearances in DS9 episodes. Though I guess that is partially what your Dominion War battlespace episodes are for.
As for Legacy, there are still opportunities for his own decedents to live up to or even surpass him.
Ross reminds me more of Ray spruance then nimitz.
Just when I thought I couldn’t love Owen anymore !
You did an amazing job.
Leaders who aren't afraid of rolling up their sleeves and getting dirty. Are decisive, and bold are Leaders that I personally respect and admire.
He truly is the cool uncle of Starfleet. Good to see such a positive influence on Starfleet being celebrated.
The grandpa figure telling others to "get up and get out grandpa."
i mean he'd know
Owen Paris also had two daughters older than Tom, ones that cut contact with their father, and then Tom at a later point after the incident that started Tom's spiral.
There were also hints that while Owen wanted to be involved in his kids lives more than his father did, he didn't know how to do it which led to the estrangement from all of his kids before he buried the hatchet with Tom over the course of the series. He seemed to be described as the almost overbearing and controlling type parent.
Not sure if it was in the series or in Beta, but there's a conversation between Janeway and Tom Paris about how after he joined Starfleet, that it seemed like Owen treated the officers he'd taken under his wing more as his children than he did his own kids, who he treated like unruly cadets. Owen also, probably, became an Admiral earlier than Wolf 359 since Tom always described things as growing up with the Admiral, so it would have been a promotion when he was young
Honestly, it kind of adds to the father/son relationship there with things of Owen trying and failing because he didn't know how else to handle things with it.
"You've got to go to the Delta Quadrant, Janeway. It's just like the song says. It's ALL in the Delta Quadrant."
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly well done and very nicely well informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on Admiral Owen Paris on his life and family structure and on his various command structures and various starship's he was on and of his various missions and duties required of him indeed Sir!👌.
Now we need a video about the other two generations.
u could talk about various starfleet shipping containers and I would still tune in to watch😊
Thanks Venom 🙏 Would have liked to hear more about his tour on the al- Batani.
Hey could you please look into the other ships in the fleet museum from Picard where they can get a cloaking device other than the HMS Bounty.
Excellent!
Great story!!
He essentially as you say a talent spotter and career progressioner in training the next ge station, but much more importantly a firefighter and problem solver during the dominion war wherever the federation needed him. As well as a decent choice to managed joint operations with the Klingons.
I have read some of the Voyager novels, as well as some of the early Voyager episodes including one that extensively covered the background of Tom Paris, along with the relationship with his father. Admiral Owen Paris was overbearing and intolerant of his son, Tom. His involvement often crossed over into interference, building resentment into his son. It was these reasons along with Tom's own flaws that led to the accident that claimed those three officer's lives. Admiral Paris was there for the first hearing when Tom was (incorrectly) exonerated after lying under oath. He turned his back on his son after discovering the truth. There was no resolution, just a magical end to the animosity.
To be fair finding out he's safe after disappearing in the badlands and finding out he's part of the reason of the ship's survival can shape the look afterwards.
I think Tom Paris is definitely an unreliable narrator, especially early on. It’s a big part of his personality that he has to get people ‘on his side’ and he does that through a sob story with his well known and respected dad.
I’ll also die on the hill that it was Owen that told Janeway about Tom, to help exonerate or at the very least commute the sentence of his son.
@@Meritania It's specifically mentioned, not sure if it's beta or alpha, that Own didn't agree with Tom being recruited for the mission there.
Tom's sisters also cut him off completely, with a mention that when everyone else was rushing to contact family to make sure they were alive after Wolf 359, that they were not ones doing so. They also cut him off when Tom joined the Academy and barely had any contact with him either and fully cut him off after his conviction.
A lot of things pointed towards Owen not knowing how to deal with his own kids, treating them as he would cadets under his command rather than his kids, and Tom's issues with his father really took off after he was in starfleet and, to him, it looked like the students and officers he took under his wing were treated more as his children than his actual kids were.
Tom also seemed to always refer to his father as "The Admiral" which means the promotion to the rank happened when he was young or even before he was born...but only really shifts to calling him his father after his realization in the episode where he's in the brig and working on the letter to his father over things.
Could the event of "wolf 359" has save the federation?
What would have happened with the federation if this battle never happened?
would they be ready for the war with The Dominion?
I feel like wolf 359 was a reality check like if they were able to drive off the cube their ships would have been able to in theory handle the dominion fleet maybe a little better in canon though, basically the federations mindset of the tos era, basically their more militant nature compared to TNG era, would have prevented wolf 359 or it wouldn’t have been such a devastation.
"If you can't handle a bloody nose, I suggest you run back home and hide under your bed. It not safe out there. The galaxy is full of wonders... and horrors beyond your immigration." -Q
Janeway would have needed to wait longer to become captain and Sisko would be a lot more grounded.
I very much liked this video
That was excelent.
VGM did you notice that the USS Ambassador has the registration number NCC-10521 while the USS Galaxy has NCC-70637 do you think what i think it means that 60116 ships were built and put into service in 30 to 40 years.
Actually my headcanon is that the first two numbers were the code for the type of ship it was…usually with the last 3 being the ship of that class
@@SuperGamefreak18a possibility but i find a Not that elegant one. I have a Double down Suggestion. The Numbers are for every komplette draft of a ship. There are blueprints somewherenfor the uss 12345 to 9 but they only build the uss12350.(Or yes they round Up to the nearest Zero and start with one once the lead ship IS in drydock)
@@SuperGamefreak18 but that doesn't make sense as NCC stands for naval construction contract meaning that it would have to be sequential for this system to be easily recognizable and easier to use.
Well it may actually reflect when the orders were placed so that ships in a class all tend to share the first 2 digits.
If we accept registries as (generally, I'm looking at you Oberths) chronological based on when they were ordered (which I do), there can be a good amount of time between ordered and laid down dates. Case in point - USS Stargazer. NCC-2893. Commissioned 2126. USS Hathaway, NCC-2593. Commissioned 2285? USS Constellation, NX-1974. In service by 2278, still NX in 2293. Seems like Constellation-class construction was heavily strung out compared to when they generally appear to have been ordered. It does feel weird that it seems like Starfleet only does a "batch" or two of ships and that's it (based on registries being generally clumped together for all known ships of a class) unless it's an Excelsior or Miranda. Feels like we should have dozens of different classes on screen any time a fleet is assembled, and almost never multiple of a class.
But as a fun consideration... what's the highest registry ship that appeared or was supposed to appear in PIC S3? Memory Alpha provides USS Gregory Jein, NCC-103145 in 2401. Then we have USS Titan, NCC-80102, that entered service in 2379. If registries are chronologically assigned... that's ~23k registries in at most 22 years. A bit over 1000 registries a year for 22 years. In comparison, we have USS Sao Paulo, NCC-75633, that entered service in 2375. So, between 2375 and 2379 (USS Titan), we had ~4.4k registries, or ~1.1k per year. Man, the loss of the Utopia Plantia yards cut Starfleet's ship ordering by ~100 ship registries per year. :D
11:14 so he is Ike. Got it
Its amazing how often history repeats itself.
With the federation having dedicated itself to peace AND its not just human. Ike would've been forgotten. A relic of a sordid past. So its more likely that someone would've emulated him, without knowing him
You talk a lot about the topic of starfleet rexpansion and rebuild post Wolf 359. Will you be doing a video on this process or if there is already one of them could you point me to it as it feels like an interesting and important topic. Especially as it probably saved them come dominion war (Q probably being the trickster mentor that he is- yet again!)
I disagree with you saying the 39 captains lost at Wolf 359 were 10% of Star Fleet. They had to have more than 400 captains.
My top 5 Star Trek Star Fleet Admirals
#5. Admiral Nechayev
#4. Admiral Kathryn Janeway
#3. Admiral William J. Ross
#2. Admiral Maxwell Forster
#1. Admiral Owen Paris
Got to ask will you do a video on the galaxy x class
His view seems almost like the that of the Napoleonic war royal, good crews, and officers will win out over superior firepower or other technological edges. With a dash of Nelson in there for the kind of genius boldness.
This deserves more likes. Just sayin.
Rah rah raaaahh
10% of the captains? there was only 400 captains in the whole starfleet in the battle of wolf 359 era?
well about 400 serving starships yeah.
There were also the many potential commanding officers were on those ships, potential or already marked for command.
Captains as in rank I believe not commanders and etc captaining ships
There's also the likelihood that not every ship is captained by a captain.
Smaller ships are likely captained by commanders and lieutenant commanders.
Yes Starfleet in the era pre the next generation is both in its golden era and at the height of its optimism and perhaps arogance. It thinks that the era of exploring is going to continue for a while and there arnt many enemies so is quite small. It takes things like the Cardasian Wars border incidents with the Romulans, the Borg and the Klingon Civil War (where getting 40 ships is a struggle albeit post 359) to get it building up its strength again.
6:55 That seems a bit high. How many ships do you see Starfleet having at the time of the Battle of Wolf 359?
11:05 So he approves of his son's choice for a wife? Also, isn't that how Starfleet operated back in TOS?
admiral Paris is what admirals should aspire to be
Remember him from V supreme commander.
Mammas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Starfleet Officers.
was his name ever said in Voyager? I don't remember it ever being said out loud. Then again, I was pretty young when Voyager came out so it's very possible that I just missed it.
Yes i think it was said several times during the show ie in the episodes where they found a huge satalire network in the delta quadrant which spanned all the way to near federation space. Belana tries to down load some messages and she says to tom
"do you know an admiral owen?"
"Admiral owen paris. My father".
@@Colin_ I think it's also mentioned in one of the early episodes with Janeway and Tom, Janeway served under him at some point
don't know about the Son bit...
I would say that Tom Paris who traveled with Janeway is brilliant (if broken), and seems to be leaving quite a legacy by the time of Lower decks rolling around...
certainly he is one of the faces of the new, post-war Starfleet... and (at least by the B-cannon stuff) has a somewhat cross-species cultural influence in the galaxy beyond Starfleet itself
He also managed to form Delta Flight in the STO timeline, and he's noted as being better with mixed and non-standard or non-starfleet groups than the more regimented Starfleet ones...
@@AzraelThanatos things like STO is what I refer to when I think of reliable Beta cannon... not quite properly Lore, but almost...
so we do noy know what happens to tom and belannas kid.
Not so far...
Rest in peace
Owen Paris:Likes klingons...
Tom Paris:Love one of them
sleep well admiral paris.
Who was Admiral Paris? = Elijah from Fallout. Answered XD Now we wait for Google to index that comment hahaha!
sup
He was like Kirk but Different.
Series kirk or movie kirk?
So we're just gonna ignore Nick Locarno? The man was an obvious byblow of the good admiral.
A good admiral 🤔 must be a changling 😂😂
i never knew owen paris was found of klingon stuff, i wonder post voyager he and belanna got on at all. considering she has a Qn'ons sized chip on her shoulder
In one of the books, Owen knew B'elana's father, and it was hinted that he knew what happened with him and it wasn't what the Torres family knew at the time, he'd gotten pulled into an Intelligence thing during the Cardassian War that got him killed behind enemy lines while the Admirals involved in it covered up the entire thing. He uncovers that between Voyager getting back in contact and B'elana's mothers death, but couldn't find a way to contact her to inform her of what happens...Torres is told about it after that point.
Galaxy's #Meh Dad
So, with all this in mind, that he was a great motivator and team-builder, who wanted to be there for his kids... How did Tom Paris turn into such a little Sh@t?
Possibly a desire to impress his father? With an outrageous stunt
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I mean, there was that stint he did in Red Squad under a fake name...
@@venomgeekmedia9886 In a lot of the other media, it's more because Owen didn't know how to deal with kids, so treated them as cadets rather than kids
@@weldonwin Locarno isn't Tom Paris, that's been cleared up with things.
Tom's thing was that he attempted a more dangerous shortcut through a storm, it got several of his friends and a fiance killed, he was the only survivor of it. It was more random chance there and a rather low risk...and he owned up to it. The books have him refusing his fathers help to get him off there.
Locarno was a dick who wanted to pull a fancy maneuver that hadn't been pulled off and had already nearly killed several people...then tried to cover it up after getting one of his team killed.
mahan doctrine in starfleet, the paris doctrine.