BOOK COMMUNITEA: BOOKISH MLM? WTF IS BINDERY?! [CC]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ต.ค. 2023
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Hey hey! This has been on my spirit for a while and I had to talk about it. This is no hate to these creators involved but the entire business model feels sus to me. Please let me know your thoughts!
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lord help me if i ever call myself a tastemaker.
Can anyone actually be helped at that point?
😂😂
This feels like some Venture Capital Tech Bro’s attempt to disrupt publishing the way Uber did taxis and AirBnB tried to do with hotels. Which is basically just recreate the industry with fewer to no labor protections, make workers use their own property instead if company property to do their jobs, and hope it can swim when all that VC money dries up.
I feel like we'll get more of the same kinds of books over and over if we leave it to broad popularity? As an author, would I love to have an influencer behind my work? Absolutely. But I don't think my book(s) would win any of these popularity contests, and I think this structure would only continue to push niche and diverse stories to the margins in favor of lowest-common-denominator, generic books. And how are they handing out $10k to every author? Where is the money coming from? (Maybe I didn't pay enough attention.)
I still don't understand where the $10k comes from. Maybe from the subscriptions the general public pays?? But yes, i don't want an influencer to be the arbiter of what gets published, I just don't see it being that beneficial of a change to publishing
@@JessOwensso it comes from the tastemakers and bindery’s cut of the subs. There will be more people on bindery than ones with imprints. If they reach a certain following they may be offered to become an imprint. If they so choose to do so their cut of their sub revenue is reduced (I think they take like 10% of total sub revenue) and that is out towards to $10k advance and production costs. Bindery also fronts some of the cost from their portion of sub revenue.
Booktok already has pushed questionable recommendations onto people, I feel like this would be a worse version of that. 😅
First we’re watching it on TH-cam video than next thing we know we see Jesse on A HBO Max documentary about it 😭 “Bindery: Uncovered”
😂😂😂😂
Do i think this will go well? No. Do i hope they prove me wrong? Yes
I would LOVE to be proven wrong!
The problem with this contract is that all the royalties are coming from net and not gross sales which means that bindery can include a bunch of costs in the overhead and not specify what they are and then the net is a tiny fraction of what the book actually makes
Here's the problem: Net royalties are GARBAGE. Accounting can be done creatively to show a loss on net, and then you get nothing, or much less than you deserve. Net is bad. Authors at most traditional publishers are paid royalties on GROSS, not net. Meaning: you get 10% of hardcover cost, period. The list price. So no matter what it sells for at wholesale prices (if the publisher decides to offer a stock 3, get one free deal, or whatever), or if the bookstore deep discounts your book, you get a SET AMOUNT FOR EVERY BOOK SOLD. Period. You sell 10,000 copies at $18.99 list price, you earn $18,900. And it means your publisher can't invent a magic number for "expenses" in order to dick you over on your share. They can't go "well, sure, your book made 50K but we spent 65K... so sorry, you get nothing. And they can apply anything to those "expenses" and it's an uphill battle to audit companies on that kind of creative accounting. There's a reason SAG is now fighting for gross, not net.
I will take 10% gross royalty on hardcovers and 7.5% on paperback over 50% net any day. Do with that what you will.
Also over 95% of the trad pub authors I know were paid WAY WAY more than a 10K advance. That Bindery thinks "most" authors get much lower advances tells me they don't know very much about how traditional publishing actually works for most authors. (10K would be a VERY low advance that many agents wouldn't take. Even write-for-hire authors I know working with packagers and direct IP are often paid 15K flat... 10K would even be low for IP! Of course I know some authors who have gotten 10K advances... but NEVER less than that at a major publisher. A non-major small might pay, say, an 8K advance which is pretty low... but that just puts Bindery in a "small press" realm. They're not competing with most of our advances at all. But even small advance small presses offer gross royalties...)
I like the idea in theory of making publishing more accessible, especially as the industry gets more competitive and it's still so weighted towards a particular demographic of authors. Buuuuut, at least from the author's perspective, this sounds far too good to be true. A $10,000 advance, earning out so early, having a professional edit and cover design, aaaaandddd having an established company of tastemakers and content creators invested in selling your book to readers? It sounds too good.
You also can only "earn out early" if enough copies sell in a short amount of time to earn back the 10k, which is so rare anymore. We're not in The Hunger Games/early Cassandra Clare/SJM era anymore where that could happen for a debut.
It sounds very good for authors and I hope that it is but I'm gonna keep watching to see how it works out
So what it sounds like: they are taking the job of prof readers, editors, etc, someone a company would hire, pay a salary to.
Giving that job to readers at-large, lit rally anybody, AND having them pay the company, monthly, to be part of the experience. In essence, paying for ARCs, which aren't supposed to be sold. And content creators get a cut of that, for bringing the readers to the platform.
Am I understanding this correctly? Cause if so, issa pyramid scheme.
What you said, is what i'm understanding and Ion like it
They have a company they are contracting with for editing, cover art, formatting etc. they also have a contract for distribution (getting books to bookstores). I don’t think subscriber input is as much as people make it out to be. It’ll be more like “we have these 2 ideas for covers, you choose!” “I’m looking at these 2 manuscripts, what do you think?” And like little glimpses and highlights into the production process. Keeping subscribers up on the status, giving them sneak peaks, etc. think of the tastemaker as more of like Reese and her book club, but with a little more input than picking an already published book and stamping their name on the cover.
Also a comment on Jananie's video made me uncomfy;
"So if I want to follow you and an additional influencers I would have to pay a separate membership for each influencer I want to follow?" to which Jananie said yes. So you are paying more than 5, 12, or 25 if you want to be more involved. This is where it enters more and more greedy/scammy sounding to me
And that whole 'come to my team' element makes this feel like a get-in-quick MLM scheme.
@@jasminv8653 this. 100%
I can't wait for your insider information 👀
"deserving authors" is really doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
I saw one tiktoker who has an imprint talk about it and he seemed to have no answers for anyone in the comments which doesn’t give me much hope. People brought up the fact that these influencers (no chance I’m calling them tastemakers) will generally pick what they want to read and that will impact what authors write so they can be chosen and his only response was “no, authors can submit what they want” as if that addresses the concern at all. I just don’t see this working to be totally honest
No one is giving concrete answers and that makes me SUSPISH
So they’re basically offering indie authors to submit their books and only people that pay to watch those vlogs videos of them reading it can then vote on if they would read it and/or would want it to be published? What ever book wins is what gets published? Through bindery? And then they’ll market it for them? Idk…this is certainly the MOST creative way I’ve seen content creators get money for continuing to make content 😂😂
I truly deeply in my soul don't understand how the finances can possibly work... and feel like it could be bad news for basically everyone except the "tastemaker".
Liselle Sambury did a video about this a few months ago and talked about her questions/concerns as an author. My main question is: Who is editing these books? I think it would be cool for a community to have some say in deciding what books get published, but I don't think authors want their books edited by someone who doesn't have experience or a random editor they didn't get to choose. (I follow a few of the creators picked, but as far as I know they don't have editing experience.) Also, how often are books are being published by each creator? If someone is paying the $15 a month for a book, how often do they expect to get one? If someone pays the fee for three months, doesn't get a book and unsubscribes, will they still get a book if one comes out the next month? What if a creator decides to leave the program while a book is still in production? I guess we'll see what happens as time goes on, but I just feel like there are other ways to get the community involved in publishing instead of this.
omg I NEED TO KNOW WHO IS EDITING THESE BOOKS because traditional publishing isn't even editing well these days. And I didn't even think of how often books are being published? Like is it quarterly? I have questions!
I saw Liselle Sambury talk about this and I'm still on the fence. I feel like I smell fish and it aint fried catfish either. As a Black person looking to start querying next year, I'm concerned how different this will be compared to regular trad publishing. Because "we" already be having a rough time out here so I'm curious about how different this is.
Yeah, the part where they mention that all the authors still need to have an agent . . . like, that's a huge step in the system that makes publishing inaccessible.
Right. It also makes me feel SUPER weird that everything from the choosing to final product is a public voting. I feel like that can make it awkwardly popularity contest...
I want to encourage you that self publishing is not a difficult path, it’s become easier and easier to do. It gets rid of the bias and you can bring your books to the world no matter what anyone says. I started self publishing twenty years ago and I no longer see any benefit to trad publishing. The validation I thought I needed from publishers I got from readers.
I wouldn't expect a group of food critics to be able to cook a Michelin-star meal or know how to run a restaurant; likewise, I do not expect a group of bookish content creators to be able run a publishing house, or properly vet submissions and track market trends to select which books get printed. Also that pay structure is getting MAJOR side-eye from me. Does this mean if none of the 'imprints' want a book, it won't get published? What is this, The Voice but for books? And there is NO WAY tastemakers should get 25% of the net earnings on every book, their only function beyond investing (which is really just their community investing) is to be the marketing team for that book. NO ONE BUDGETS A QUARTER OF THE TOTAL POTENTIAL EARNINGS FOR MARKETING. What about the editors? Sensitivity readers? QC? Sales Team (the people who negotiate with retail stores)? Are these content creators booking events on behalf of the author? Signings? Tours? Are you telling me ALL of that plus the expected manufacturing costs are covered by Bindery's 25%? I call bs.
I don't think it's an MLM or a scam, I think it's just a project with good intentions but none of the important professionals or infrastructure that would make it work long-term.
EDIT: did some poking around on Bindery's LinkedIn page; would you be shocked if I told you 5 of the 7 employees are white? And a Co-Founder was head of Product at Patreon before this? And the other Co-Founder is the ONLY ONE with any publishing industry experience? This reeks of "tech bros with a Really Cool Idea and some Silicon Valley connections"
I briefly looked at the founders and was not shocked at the whitness but WOW, very tech bro adjacent.
@@JessOwens yeahhhh I think one of them even calls it a "tech-publishing venture" in their profile somewhere
I'm not sure I understood the concept correctly, but I wonder about the neutrality of these influrncers reviewing a book that they gain financially from. They have a vested interest in a book becoming as popular and successful as possible and I'm afraid that quality will go down even further. Also, what exactly means "get to make publishing decisions" does that include editing? Plot? Marketing? Or only whether something will be published or not? What happens if one of these influencers/ tastemakers decides to print their own book via this system? Can they be a tastemaker for their own book? Idk, I dont like this
there is so much I dont understand about this even after watching Jananie's video. there is so much that seems.... underdeveloped? scammy? idk I agree its weird and uncomfortable. there are too many chances for things to go very wrong i think
@@e4mi I watched her video, too and was left with more questions than answers. Beginning with how many subscribers do you even need to be able to launch a book? Sounds like these tastemakers will be very busy acquiring authors and promoting them to do much of their usual content 🤷🏻♀️2X royalties sounds like alot, but it seems dependent on how well the book sells after passing that initial $10K figure….what if it’s only a dollar??? Anyhoo. Interesting concept, and I’m curious to see how it all pans out. Thanks for bringing this to our attention Jess!!
Ooooh I didn't even think about a tastemaker using their imprint for their own book! And you're so right, how do we know they genuinely like the book and aren't pushing it so that it does well for them??
I have questions. What qualifies any of these people to be "tastemakers"? What do agents think of this? This does not seem to help indie authors at all, since they only accept agented books. I feel like that old adage applies here (at least until proven otherwise): if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
That's my thing because look, we know I'ma hater, and I'm sorry just because you have a large following on tiktok, that does not mean you should be making decisions on what gets published
This doesn't make sense. Even large publishers don't usually offer such high advances, especially to new authors. The authors will realistically never earn their advance that way. If the books are priced at $10 (arbitrary price), that means a book needs to sell something like 2000 copies to earn back the author's advance. That's not an easy number for a debut author. Not even 1000 copies sold is anything that should be expected, with or without the promotion of book influencers. This could potentially work as a system if the advance wasn't so high so it's setting off my alarms.
I don’t think enough people understand what “advance against royalties” is 😢
I watched Jananie's announcement video and to me at surface level it just sounds like a bookish Patreon. It does feel very skewed in the favor of Bindery which is to be expected regardless of the style of business. Kinda fills like publishing tech bro style? It does feel very confusing how funds are split up and I agree that's definitely not good, it's either intentional or they aren't explaining it well. Something does feel weird about it, though I don't think I'd call it an MLM. Jananie is the only creator I recognize on their list, and while I am obviously not all-knowing of every bookish creator, I would think you'd want to try to launch with the who's who of booktube/tok/gram on your roster but they don't seem to be there? Why is that? Were they not reached out to? Why not? Did they turn it down? Why?
I'd love to talk to Jananie, maybe she could better explain it. There's just so many questions and no concrete answers
Maybe the payment structure is something like the equivalency to publisher (25), agent (25), author (50). That's sort of the way my brain understood it, but I could be wrong.
WARNING: LONG COMMENT AHEAD. I'm aware I'm HWITE (intentional misspelling to poke fun at my privilege) and cis-dude appearing, and I know how comment section essays look. Not my intention to mansplain, my thoughts just kept compounding, I promise. TLDR: I don't see how this would get very far for anyone on any end of this.
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I'm having to watch this more than once to make sure I understand the project/promises and, like you Jess, I just don't see how everyone, if anyone, wins here. I get how they seemingly want better than more common publishing models for authors in terms of royalties and transparency for deal terms, as do I get allowing influencers and their communities to have a space for a book that they love but don't think they could see anywhere else, but that's where the great ideas end.
I recognize two of the folks tapped as tastemakers (won't name so I don't blast them; I like them and still probably will despite the outcomes here!), and neither seems ignorant of how publishing works, so like you, I doubt they agreed to this fully ignorant of the degree of power they would truly have, but influencers are not professionally-trained editors, publicists etc (at least none that I've seen) so other than an early promo or "street team," what role would the tastemaker and their community serve? Beta-reading perhaps, but presumably an author on submission through other avenues would have already been through that process.
If they're working with agented authors as it seems from the information available--and from what I've learned following the author-tube community (hardly a representative sample for experience, I realize), I don't see how a flat standard $10,000 advance for every author potentially choosing this route would "win" (i.e. be the best choice) over other potential opportunities that could arise in traditional submission and acquisition. For the indie author looking into this (if Bindery is considering them), I don't see how essentially agreeing to a $10,000 loan (what an advance is; royalties don't come to the author until the advance is recouped in earnings) from here would hold more sway than not accepting anything as they would going indie. Nothing about what was presented here tells me how distribution would rival or even compete with established models either.
As far as the model of a follower paying a Patreon-like pledge to then be split among the tastemaker themself, Bindery, the author, various members of the team etc, I totally get the MLM-comparison--knock-on-wood, this won't turn into further tiers of the "pyramid" among the supporters as the processes get going. I also don't love the idea of paying just to get into an author's thank-yous and acknowledgments when there may never be meaningful interaction between the author and those buying in. How would this also become enough of an income stream for the tastemaker compared to the time investment from what they want to be doing, i.e. creating bookish content? It just doesn't seem viable for anybody.
Amazing points. I almost forgot that the 10k advance is a loan that will need to be paid back. I also agree that this is not a pyramid but very uncomfortably close to one. I hope it is just misguided/misdirected with good intentions
Joe, I LOVE the disclaimer you gave 😂😂 and that made me read your entire comment. THANK YOU for mentioning that influencers are not professionally trained editors, publicists etc because I've already noticed how many books feel undeveloped and poorly edited lately, and those are published by major imprints!
The 10k advance for every other doesn't make sense and I don't even understand publishing THAT WELL but it doesn't seem possible every single person can get the same advance???
There's so many questions left unanswered and I guess we just have to watch it play out to see what actually happens.
If I was an agent, there’s just not enough specifics here for me to trust they would take care of a client. I have a lot of reservations about the model. I hope I’m proven wrong.
I'd need to see a sankey diagram with sample numbers on this to see the breakdown of who gets what across the entire chain from an author getting picked up to long-term royalty payout. I feel like the double-digit percentages and "2x industry standard" language purposely makes everything sound above board, but without a visual of the breakdown, it will remain fishy in my mind.
And "2x Industry Standard" is also vague. What part of the industry? Are we talking about the average for new authors? Established? Is it U.S. publishing?
It's weird.
It's very vague and I can't wait until the first books are published and hopefully we get some concrete numbers
I think the Booktuber Jananie from This Story Ain’t Over is one of the imprint influencers
Correct. Jananie's imprint is Boundless Press. She is where I've heard of Bindery.
I was gonna comment the same thing
@@Liamliayaum906 If I understand the video she made correctly, she organized it? Or is heading it? I'm not totally sure as that wasn't super clear either
Saying the Influencers (yeah no on 'Tastemakers') will 'Promote' your book is deceptively open. I work in bookselling and campaigns vary WILDLY in scope, cost, and quality - From the ESTABLISHED publicists, who do this as their entire job. This platform wants untested authors to trust amateurs for this?
Sounds weird to me.
I am cackling at every comment that refuses to call them tastemakers bc SAME. I need more CONCRETE answers
I wish I would get as lit as you on caffeine. I can have one of those and just be calm. I needed a Jess video right now, work is making me crazy and I need my comfort watch/listen.
It doesn't always happen, but those espresso shots really HIT me LOL
welcome back gorgeous, love your top.
thank you friend 🩵🩵
So excited for this video - I’ve been seeing it pop up in bookstagram but have no idea what it is… 👀
VERY tentatively so far folks I've talked to seem excited about it. It's closer to book boxes than anything else. Each influencer will only be helping 1 (at most 2) books per year get published. It's meant to draw attention to books from marginalized communities (the influencers are specifically focused on this) that might not have had a chance otherwise. I think it's something we could really use in publishing. Also, they are attempting to curate the content by only taking agented submissions, so that should help. IF it ends up working out how they say, I think it could be really cool. Only time will tell! Also, I really think those who are first will get the biggest boost as the new shiny. After that, it will really be up to the quality and standards of the books to see if this is a sustainable model.
Truly time will tell. I will continue to watch and see how it plays out
I do understand the potential for Book influencers to leverage their skillset and audience. I’m sure that this first set of authors is very aware that this is the first set of books being published with this company. I really hope it goes well and it’ll be interesting to see if Bindery gains more traction.
Wooow. I never comment buuut.. first of all the e term tastemaker gives me the ick.. and second this sounds super slim shady!!
Ima need them to throw out the term tastemaker bc we hate it
Oh, and in terms of how the profits work (I'm seeing a lot of folks asking in the comments) the key word is NET. Net is profits, not the list price of a book. Most major publishers do a small amount of royalties (6-15%) on the list price. Most mid and small/indie publishers work off net (profits). So that's how the math works out. Net is the profit after services of the editor, designer, print costs, etc. are dolled out. Whatever is left is then split 50% to the author (and it's true this is generous even on a Net model), 25% influencer, 25% Binder. On the surface, it doesn't *seem* unsustainable, but it will ultimately depend on 1) the pull of the influencer's community and 2) the eventual quality of the books.
I feel like only taking books from people who have successfully gotten an agent doesn’t do that much to allow for more authors to potentially get published since finding an agent is the hardest gate to get through.
To me, it's not giving MLM because there's no incentive to recruit other people to also be "tastemakers." Does that mean it doesn't seem off? No. I think it's rich to promise that the community will be able to participate in publishing decisions at all tiers. Especially if they're (likely) hoping for really large audiences following these tastemakers. Even if there's only 100 people total at all of these different tiers - that means you individually get a 1% vote in what happens. Are they only meaning "vote on which manuscript I pick?" Does the community get any input into literally anything else about the publication of the book? For the potential userbase, even at the lowest tier, if each influencer helps publish 1 book a year, that's 180$ per book. Do you have to pick based on the premise? Would you get to read an excerpt? Do you have to choose based on Vibe Alone? And again, at the end of the day - they're saying you'll get influence over these decisions as an audience member, but it's incredibly likely that your "influence" over any publishing decisions will be minimal at best and potentially nonexistent.
I saw Liselle Sambury talk about it and I've been keeping an eye out for any new developments.
I'm gonna keep my eyes on it because i'm very curious
Interesting take! I joined one of the creators’s imprints. I thought it was a more fun interactive take on patreon with, at least to me, a good mission statement.
And maybe it will be! I'm tempted to join one to see how it all works
Yesss do it! I’d love to hear your thoughts. Admittedly I know 0 about the publishing industry except what I hear from you LOL.
I do follow two of the 'tastemakers' and I've followed them way before they were associated with bindery. I'd be curious to see what books they choose to publish. I don't like the pay to play model. These choices are still going to be made by people who can afford to make these choices, and I don't know how that's any different than publishing currently. I would love to see them open it to the public where some choices can be voted on for free, because then it would really be a reflection of what the masses what and not just those with the extra cash to spend.
Ooo yeah I agree with the comments about Trova Trip! Would LOVE a deep dive there. I always wonder if there's an FTC violation there since most don't disclose they get paid for each person going on the trip.
let me get to googling
Naomi and I have talked about this on the podcast a couple times now. We’re not sold on this ish.
In case anyone wants to watch we talk about it here Welcome Back & Hello Season 3 | TBR Lowdown Podcast | S3E94
th-cam.com/video/Hl_OQKc1B-s/w-d-xo.html and then again Bindery Has Launched - Time For An Update | TBR Lowdown Podcast | S3E99
th-cam.com/video/-Eee5PwPsJs/w-d-xo.html
You know we’re gonna keep updating people was things unfold
I saw Jananie talk about it, and I still feel a little suspicious about the setup. I guess one concern I'd have would be how the experience with the folks providing editorial services would be. Also an iffy thing to commit to when we see companies like Patreon currently changing up the payout percentages as they see fit, to everyone else's detriment. Maybe it's a 50% payout now, but what about in a year or two? Will books published now get contracts fixed at the present rates and be immune to future rate changes like that? 🤔
sounds like a weird patreon/mlm/venture capitalism thing
a weird mashup for sure
i love this video because as soon as i heard it i thought it would be fun for readers...but absolutely hellacious for authors lol
I think the idea of leveraging people with an established audience to take over the marketing is so helpful. The rest... seems suspect. The numbers don't math for me 🤔
Ok, but this sweatshirt though!!! 💛
It’s not really an MLM it’s more like a crowdfunded publisher and it gives the “crowd” an incentive to pick good books if you are not making good choices you are going to get your investment back
If think it would be more sketchy and an MLM if it forced members to recruit more in order for them to get a higher pay back and it doesn’t seem like that is happening unless I missed something
I don't think i still fully understand it lol
Doesn't sound like it's actually a MLM.
Not saying it doesn't sound iffy as fuck, just not like a barely legal pyramid scheme.
I think Book Chats with Shelley also talked on this topic!
It does seem super sketchy tbh. So many questions about how this is supposed to work. It could be good in theory, but there's some questionable stuff and way too many questions it feels like something that'll end in a scandal lol
at least from what i understand, it seems like every content creater and their members/"press" are acting as investing groups or even like venture capitalists. but i don't see how 1) bindery is making money from this? they're getting only 25% of royalties and 25% of membership subscriptions but they're also offering 10K advances and funding the printing completely(??) (unless the content creator helps out which... point 2)?? who the hell runs bindery? they must have some insane investors or they will be doing EXTREME cost cutting during printing. and 2) how will this not just lead to a smaller but accelerated version of capitalism taking over book publishing. on the authors' side, they're gonna want to appeal to whatever press they're presenting to as much as possible if they really want to get chosen/advertised/bought by the cc and their members. on the cc's side, i can only really see them reducing their cut from memberships to help printing IF they're doing it as a risky investment and expecting more profit. you have to have faith in A LOT of people to believe this won't turn into a profit making machine
I don't want publishing to be exclusive to the big 5 we have now but also, i don't think this is making publishing accessible in a positive or sustainable way...
I can’t imagine enough people paying these descriptions for the company to even last that long but I could be wrong
It seems like they have people who have signed up but we'll see..
I don't know what the answer is anymore that is best for the author and the reader. I really don't. Because when thinking of letting readers decide, please remember Twilight was a "cultural phenomenon" but also...we have got to stop allowing publishers to decide because they do not care if it is garbage, so long as that terrible writing will sell to mostly kids while authors who can write are largely ignored which benefits neither the authors nor the readers. I almost feel like eventually we will find out traditional publishers are the ones benefitting from this too. I don't know anymore.
THE SHAKEN ESPRESSO IS MY LIFE!!!!!
The only way i'm surviving TBH
Ive never heard of this but it sounds like someone found out that self publishing with the label of traditional publishing and guarenteed social media presence sounds like a dream come true to baby authors and is just so predatory to me!
Agreed. The math ain't mathing. The their level for the paperbacks is too low if they are pubbing a book a month.
My questions are - how many books will the tastemaker read before deciding? Do they have a timeframe to pick? How many books will they pick a year? How long will it take before a book is actually published? Will people be waiting 2 years? If you leave the tastemakers group before the book release will you not get the book even if you were subscribed for 6months or something? Just you know…questions lol
I have a lot of thoughts so bear with me lol
1. so they are just going to replace ‘influencer’ with ‘tastemaker’ and think we wouldn’t notice????
2. also why would I (as a reader) trust these ‘tastemakers’ to give an impartial review when their own imprint is getting money from book sales?
3. also being an influencer and posting reviews doesn’t automatically make you ‘marketing muscle’ ….let’s call it what it is…you simply have a platform…which is not the same as knowing the ins and out of marketing …..
4. where did the get the venture capital to even promise these authors 10k ???????
5. where did ANY of theses numbers comes from? how long was this in the making ? how much $$$ did the ‘tastemakers’ put up front? did someone in publishing start this up or is this an influencer passion project of a trust fund baby?
6. ????????????????????? !!!!!
7. I have so many questions that I unfortunately don’t think I will get the answers to but I am also a hater (unfortunately) and will be watching out for this in future updates 😅
1-hahahahah, they really thought TASTEMAKER was the right word to use
2-you mean, you don't trust that the TASTEMAKER used their TASTE to choose the best books??
3-DING DING DING!!!
4-I need to look into the founders more but they seem to have money between them I guess? One worked for Patreon..and maybe they have angel investors?? No clue
5-I am no mathematician but this math seems suspish
6-alll the ????????
7-happy to have you hear, fellow hater🩵🫶🏾
@@JessOwens from one of the articles linked at the bottom of bindery website (the tubefilter one), they say the CEO of patreon Jack Conte 'backed it' -- so I think you're spot on about the money.
- the article also mentions how tiktok will be opening its own pub branch so this is interesting too
Yeah, it seems fishy to me too. I heard about it from a YT I subscribe to and looked at it after her announcement and was like nope. Plus, I don’t know but seems like a lot of money for the subscribers with potentially not too many perks
It sounds to me like a weird scammy MLM version of Patreon meets vanity publisher. I follow a couple of authors on Ream Stories, which is basically like a book version of Patreon. But these focus on early access, bonus content, or members only books and stories. If Bindery stuck to a similar model they would be fine. It's just creepy that they're adding the publishing of books to the list. Also, the term tastemaker is a bit cringy.
All I can say is that I love your jumper prayers and blessings for you and your Aussie family love your family friend John ❤❤❤
thank you 🩵
@@JessOwens no problem
I'm also really sus of Trova Trip, which it seems every single booktuber is doing now. The company has mixed reviews and idk, it seems off.
Bahahaha, fair! I am currently working with them--the trip is not confirmed--but I understand feeling sus. I think there's a lot that isn't thoroughly explained
I've also felt sus about it. But I think my read is that mostly the trips are fun (really depends on how well the influencers are able to connect to the other people on the trip I guess) but they are sooo far out of my budget. I understand that's how they make their money but I will never be able to justify going on a trova trip because I could go to the location so much cheaper on my own and I feel weird paying extra to hang out with someone who's also paid to be there.
To me I think let it go out in the publishing waters and see if it floats. The whole publishing world is turned upside down anyway. You say you don’t like it but you also say you don’t understand stand it. I say let’s see how it goes before final judgment.
It does sound sketchy.
Bindery says they're for the authors that dont fit in tradpub/indie, so I assume they mean diverse voices & stories tradpub typically disfavours? But I'm not entirely sure how this wont just reflect the tradpub/tiktok market in the end and bury diverse creators in the algo. Especially because they point to how tiktok's success in selling books means Bindery will be successful.... but meanwhile, tiktok seems to be playing a huge role in making the NYT bestseller list even whiter than before.
My cynical read:
- influencers are rewarded monetarily (subscriptions + book purchase royalties) from their subscribers
- the best way to get ALL the subscribers is by being white/cis/het etc. These will be the biggest accounts, and because of that, the most promoted.
- content creators in general may start to skew to favour white/cis/het books, already popular books, because it pays better (more subscribers + book purchase royalties)
- this creates better visibility for the same 2 authors
- same problems, new arm of publishing
That being said it feels like every argument I have against this just has me sit back and think "we already have this issue in tradpub too". Would I throw the book I've been working on for the last 5 years to this? An agent would have a hard time convincing me to be the canary in the coal mine on this one.
The curation part seems cool, but I don't see what it's doing that a combination of social media and patreon aren't already doing for reviewers, especially seeing as we've all been burned by seeing too many platforms come and go. EDIT: I guess it's adding getting involved in the process of cover creation??? probably?? ARCs already exist...
EDIT 2: I've also been thinking about the editing process. Authors are constantly told they want champions for their projects, and it's better to have no agent/editor than one that's so-so on your book. But now books aren't being chosen by the editor--- they're being chosen by the 'tastemaker'. This doesn't mean there won't be good books necessarily, but I feel we could get a lot of books not reach potential this way.
There's so many questions unanswered. I really have questions about the editing of the books and I agree with your point that diverse creators barely make it in the algorithm, let alone diverse books. I just don't know...
Ooop. I don't know much about things like Bindery. I've looked into it vaguely via seeing videos but I don't mess with anything.
"Tastemaker" sounds so cringe.
Maybe get in touch with Jananie ...She seems quite approachable and probably you could interview her or something...might help clear somethings and cross promotion as well!!! Just saying...I'm curious too, ngl...seems to convenient!
I would love to because i honestly want to know more!
The person getting screwed is the subscriber. Won’t get anything for that $5 a month. Very suspect and I won’t be signing up.
How will the agent make money? They specifically say they will accept submissions only from agented authors (which is already the first stage of gatekeeping). The agent draws commission from the book deal they broker for the author. No clarity has been given about this. This publishing doesn't give opportunity to indie or unagented authors. That already bars a lot of prospective authors. Will they accept international authors? There are many unanswered questions. I feel it's another form of elitist, closed knit publishing layer providing nothing to the author community at large.
Nope. Not gonna do it! What if these tastemakers don't like my genre?
Bindery sounds way too pro-author to be true lol. It’s sad to say that, but you’re right, something feels off. Because at the end of the day, Bindery is a company. How the hell are they supposed to raise the authors’ 2x advance money when it’s a brand new site? That’s a lot of money to rely on the tastemakers’ communities to essentially fund with memberships/subscriptions…
Also: it’s not even everyday people who can submit manuscripts at this point - you have to have a literary agent to be considered. So, sure, the tastemakers are “choosing” with their communities but they’re choosing from already-chosen or somewhat vetted authors, which I get, but also isn’t really all that different from traditional publishing??
Exactly, they have to make money (Bindery does) so I'm confused how there's enough money for everyone involved??
The math isn’t math-ing!
i have no idea how this works, but i agree that it sounds soo sketch
As an author, I'm not sure how comfortable I feel about the tastemaker making royalties long term. Yes, it may add an incentive for them in the beginning of a book's success, but then in a year (two, five?) when they are now pushing new books, they will still be earning half of what the author does? The publishing industry does need change, but I'm not yet sold on this being the big new thing that it's being hyped up as.
I don't think this will go as well as they think... I often don't find myself liking overhyped books
Tastemaker is the most distasteful term ever. Sooo gross.
I don’t know who comes up with dumb stuff like this, but it sounds shady AF to me.
How new are they? I can’t find any other videos on them
Jananie's announcement video on her channel (this story aint over) was one month ago
I keep eyeing this and am on the fence. The basis is a good idea but how it actually works, seems purposely gray. In the consideration phase, are these content creators also being editors and reviewing the entire manuscript or do they just get a summary and excerpt? What protects the authors' intellectual property from the content creators? The idea of calling this group of people tastemakers is also...odd. Like, are people physically eating the books? 🤣 Jokes aside, I think there are some indie publishers who are more transparent and trying to get more diverse books out there with better pay to authors, like Row House Publishing.
I have so many of the same questions! LMAO "are people physically eating the books" hahahahaha.
Oh this not going to end well...
I just know that this is going to go down in terrible burning flames but at least it will be interesting to watch. My bet is that both the authors and tastemakers get f’ed over. The contract is probably written so that tastemakers lose a substantial amount of money should the books not make the $10K back (and let’s be honest, most probably won’t). Authors probably lose all rights to their work as well. The weirdest part is that I follow some of these so-called tastemakers and they haven’t said a peep about this. So already we’ve got bad marketing-and as a marketing person, that means this is absolutely doomed.
OK, so this screams 🔼 scheme. One of the "tastemakers" 🤨 was immediately recognized. I am going through the people I follow to make sure I unfollw. Yep, I'm petty.
In terms of where the money is coming from, if it’s a startup it definitely sounds like venture capitalists are pouring money into it to “disrupt” the publishing industry. It’s like Uber and taxis or Airbnb trying to put hotels out of business
🥴🥴
That company mission statement is FULL of red flags. (Buzz words over substance).
So I am not understanding how this levels the playing field. Only content creators who can afford the pay the membership fee will have decision making powers over what is published? What about smaller content creators? Some content creators use library books or other free sources because they can't afford to buy books at the traditional expense. Do their opinions and the opinions of their followers not matter?
There's never going to be a true even playing field but I think they believe since these are the general public, it makes it more equitable than trad publishing?
I think what this is like a beta reader getting money which is something I have been in the community and beta reader should be free. I also feel like this is putting this idea of authors in a review space. If I was to finally publish my book I would not definitely would not go this rout. It does not seem right.
Oh my god, right? I've looked into finding beta readers and they all charge money now. And a lot of it. It's ridiculous.
@@gideongrace1977 I was trying to be beta reader for free but I could not get authors.
@@dolphinsrock09 Huh. Well, I'm an author and I would LOVE a beta reader! What kinda genres do you read? Do you have preferences?
I think this is pretty good for writers. The contract terms seem fair at a high level. 50% of royalties is unheard of and $10K would be a good book deal for most genre authors. I think the biggest unknown is Bindery's ability to distribute and market books. It sounds like they're completely relying on a Booktuber's ability to sell books and I really don't know if they have the ability. In order to earn out the advance, the tastemaker would have to sell at least 1,000 $20 books, which is actually pretty hard. Knowing how much time goes into publishing and marketing projects, it's really hard to imagine the tastemaker will get paid enough for their time if the book flops.
But self publishing has been a thing forever. Anyone can be a publisher anytime they want…
And let me expand on this for a moment, when I wrote my first novel in the late 90s traditional publishers had no idea how to market it. It was through self publishing that that book eventually found its very niche audience. It takes time but there are no gatekeepers anymore. You can publish anything and learn to find it’s audience.
I think they're really leaning into the marketing that the influencers can provide which I understand but... I don't get much else about it
Seems like the author would be expected to submit a ready to be published book, so some of that advance would be reduced by the money already spent on editing and cover art. Free promo is nice, but you can already give free ebooks for reviews. As for reviewers/influencers, it may affect their credibility when viewers realize they have a conflict of interest.
Ultimately, it sounds like adding a middle man that isn’t needed. The community has thrived because it’s organic. Because it’s sincere and real. This company is trying to capitalize off of that, which will undermine it and possibly lead to its demise.
So content creators / tastemakers hype your book even if it’s trash as they directly profit from it? Aren’t enough meh books already overhyped
seriously we have too many already
This sounds to me like a crowd-funded trad publisher, but instead of hiring actual assistant editors to read through the slush pile, they are having book influencers do it. This might provide better access to more authors in niche markets than traditional publishing, which is always looking for something so "mass marketable" that a lot of fantastic stories get rejected. And it could also help those authors launch. In theory, it's a unique solution to some very well known problems with trad publishing... but I expect it to flop, because the "subscribers" are going to pay monthly for basically nothing... like how often will the imprint release books? I guess we will wait to see, but as a customer, this smells funny.
Sounds like influencers playing publisher and all I can say is good luck to them!
What the heckin’ heck. I don’t like this. I am sniffing a scammy stench with this.
Hmmmm seems sus to meeee
The financials aren’t feeling right….
not right at all...
@@JessOwens it just doesn’t feel sustainable and where are the start up funds coming from?
The math is not mathing lol
this is wild and weird and i don't trust it.
The authors are going to be screwed over big time you can see it
I like this idea! It’s really building a reader community and allowing the readers to have input. A different spend to self publishing. This is smart
I think it's a unique idea, i'm just curious how it will actually work
Sounds sketchy. Seems like a way for a company to attract indies utilizing influencers. And I bet they are selective who they will work with.
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I think it sounds like an interesting effort to change the industry. I imagine like a patreon, where the patrons help chose what books are published and maybe other details like cover art? Jananie @thisstoryaintover did a whole video about it. I like that they are transparent about money. I don't know where the money is coming from but where does money come from when anyone starts a business? I believe the founders are all "industry pros"