Manual Engine Controls Part 2 | Performance Advantage With MEC
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
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0:00 - Introduction
0:42 - MEC Parameters
1:33 - Propeller Pitch
2:25 - Supercharger Gear
3:43 - Mixture
4:20 - Radiators/Overheat
5:48 - Climb Test
6:30 - Dash
7:29 - Prop Pitch Trick
8:26 - Conclusion
Long awaited and heavily requested video about Manual Engine Controls (MEC)! This is the part 2 of the MEC tutorial series that DEFYN and I are making for your pleasure and education.
This video explains the MEC parameters, shows the approximate performance advantage you get from using MEC, as well as a few MEC tricks that are easy to do. Enjoy and learn!
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MEC tutorial part 1 by DEFYN: th-cam.com/video/RRzMcnCS4ag/w-d-xo.html
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exactly the same problem ! U see the wiggling crosshair? ughh...
Could you play the 262 in the next video
“Let’s MEC it happen!”
I agree!
Thank you for making this one. I will enjoy feasting on 109's with dead engines.
lol, lots of flying pistons when people try to go full prop pitch with a 109.
DEFYN is more responsible for that part.
I was busting 109 engines before that was mainstream
@@SonoftheBread Nazi rocket scientists out here sending rods into orbit...
I can finally get some time with the 109😅😅 I thought my German line was bugged in sim
"Let's MEC it happen" is quite possibly your best technical video introduction pun yet.
Hahaha really?
I prefer "Let's MCAS right into it".
@@AdamTheEnginerd That one is pretty good as well, as is "Let's roll rate into it". But I like that this doesn't follow the format of "Let's [topic] right into it".
My biggest problem with MEC is i still think there should be an accurate and updated list or chart of every single prop in this game, because every place i look has slightly differing info on the MEC parameters, so every time i wanna try out a new prop and play it to it's best peformance, i gotta scour the internet and test every single parameter that is recommended to me to see what is actually the correct combo to give me the best peformance over the course of the matches.
the thumbnail is so good i literally watched the video twice because of it. also very informal yet compact video explaining all the topics which is very hard to find
Haha!
Been using mec for a while 109 air brake is pretty funny to watch people freak out in dogfights
I don't use it too often but yeah it's nice.
I too freak out on dumb 109s dropping all their advantage to turn with me lol
@@rekreator9481if a more maneuverable aircraft is behind you at the same speed then prop braking is the best way to survive by forcing an overshoot
Great shit. Gaijin really should make this information readily available themselves. Instead it’s left to legends like you to inform the masses.
Thanks! And indeed.
I really enjoy mec it’s useful if you have a problem with overheating
For sure.
I didn't know that when temperature goes orange, overheating theshold decreases. I thought it just happens naturally no matter what you do. Thanks!
Yup, my pleasure!
This is something they could do a better job communicating in-game. To most people, amber means "okay" not your engine is slowly dying.
Does this change the threshold at which yellow temperature turns orange / amber? Because at 5:45 I saw your temperature go from flashing red almost instantly to yellow.
min 7:30 i found a solution for F8F-1B with that trick thank you so much. I played with WEP most part of match i managed to set the propeller pitch at 80% mixture at 90% and both radiators at 50% some time i had to open it but in a short period of time and after fights.
Seems like for most of the American Radials you can run that rough 90% mix and 85% pitch. It definitely makes the f8f more enjoyable
My pleasure!
always looking for this kind of information, you and only a very small amount of youtubers are just phenomenal at what you do! thank you for all you do
My pleasure man! Great to be appreciated for what I like doing!
Nice! I was just trying to learn it when i found the settings
Thanks!
Adam, If I'm not mistaken, auto engine controls will switch SC gears at the correct alt. So going into cockpit view and switching quickly to auto and back while keeping an eye on the relevant dial (i.e. Manifold pressure) when approaching the switch alt, will allow you to see exactly when to switch gears, as the auto mode will do it and you'll see the hand in the dial jump to a higher pressure.
But the overlay is essential, especially for planes with limited wep
Yup, but it's complicated to tell people what to look for in the cockpit.
I've been waiting for this video a long time, thanks :)
No problem!
Thanks for the video. I play sim battles and I was thinking of using MEC but was worried about the mixture part. Thanks and now I will try to use mec
My pleasure! Once you go MEC you never go back!
Adam thank u for accepting my request on mec ...you are fooooookkkiing lit keep up the work
My pleasure! I will!
Respect for you man for the amount of knowledge you have about this game
Thanks!
Good work! There's some deep knowledge in this vid.
Glad you think so!
Very nice and informative video. I've played air RB for years but I only used MEC for radiator control. I'm looking forward to test 'the airbrake' tonight.
Thanks! Airbrake is nice indeed!
Yes adam finally uploads :)))
Every 2 Fridays ;).
Excellent video, thank you
Glad you liked it!
In 8 years I didnt realy do anything with prop pitch but now Im starting to get the hang of it!
Good!
Nice tutorial
Thanks!
Great info 👍
Thanks!
That's what we need!!!!
We deliver ;).
Nice Video
Thanks!
Then there are 109s and Spitfires engines that without MEC get into red immediately, but with MEC can WEP forever and feel like UFOs lol...
Great video as always Adam!
Thanks!
Spitfire IIs just delay grenading their engine with MEC WEP lol, but it's definitely way more preferable than fully burning the engine out in the middle of the fight. The Merlin Spits are quite okay with MEC, still not completely perfect if you WEP too much, but it can WEP pretty comfortably.
109s basically have infinite WEP, hooray for them (as do 190s).
Griffon Spits... don't *quite* have infinite WEP, but basically enough to last most of the primary and some of the secondary engagements.
TheAmazingCowpig yep. Btw i was talking about tier 4 planes. Tier 3 109s can’t full wep even with 100% radiators
@@TheAmazingCowpig 109 F-4 gets hot pretty fast, even with 100% radiators.
Thanks!
You bet!
idk i just use it because it makes me feel smart
Lmao that works too.
Imma comment this before I play the vid. I feel like I have a performance advantage when I fly MEC. I never tested if there is one. I just went with whatever made me feel confident
Indeed there is.
In SB, at least in war thunder, the only way for spitfires to be playable is to decrease prop pitch to about 50-60%
That's really low. At 65% it was manageable when I tested.
TY
You can write a python script to automate most of these MEC procedures. It seems like the goal is just to maximize thrust at any point without exceeding temperature or RPM limits. Easy to code.
Hmm at that point it can be considered cheating though.
Nice job. Gaijin really should make this information readily available themselves. Instead it’s left to legends like you to inform the masses
Thanks! And indeed.
much appreciated but a lot to memorize & remember
Only thing to really remember is supercharger gear, rest is a function of temperature for radiators.
Weird tip: 68% prop pitch on 109s at under 170kph generates lots of power for some reason. Do you think you could dig into that and find why that happens??
Already did, might be the origin of that fact spreading haha: th-cam.com/video/ynJ33k6OMaQ/w-d-xo.html
Essentially too much power and too little prop area makes the blades stall at low speed. Going to higher RPM (prop pitch) alleviates the thrust loss, hence increase in thrust at 65-70% prop pitch.
i remember that using wep in aec in the past caused closing the radiators to maximize the performance, even when overheating. and lowering throttle to 100% were opening them, but dunno how it works today
Now it depends on both temperature and throttle. On WEP it delays opening of the rads until you're basically in the red.
Got another ace in my ta154, your turn adam, its an awsome plane!
It's on my list!
@@AdamTheEnginerd hell Yea, i cant wait, im personaly not super good in air, but i do super good with the ta154, im Sure someone like you can destory the enemy team
Nice thumbnail as always!
Thanks!
you have to join us at IL-2 Sturmovik
Perhaps.
i got no notification:( me so sad now but happy af to see a video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
F for notifications.
I found it useful even just for the explanation of gradual damage done by overheating.
I always WEPed to red numbers and thought that no damage is done unless engine starts to get yellow.
By the time the damage was done I am already in the battle, so too busy to notice numbers get red at different point. Also not great to damage your engine even during initial climb, before somebody even shoots at you.
About learing about mec- i was a very impatient player when i started learining mec (as i moustly use it to maxmimalize cooling between engagment, climbing, breaking off, and beter controll during landing- I would turn it off during fights) but after i started playing with it this one extra routine made me pay attention more to my exact positioning as I gained moust about how plane phisics should work from greg's channel (guy explains how tech back ten worked and how they where designed - moustly p-47's but also mustangs, bf109s, zeros, fw190s and occasionally about some british planes - i cannot recomend the guy enough. )
Greg's channel is great indeed.
still relevant in 2024. thnx :D
Hey adam, awesome video and thanks to all the videos you made/make i'm finally able to be useful to my team in air rb. I just wanted to know what you use to show those Angle of attack, thrust and other parameters on the top left of the screen (not the in-game one, the ones below them). Is that some kind of mod or something?
My pleasure, glad they are useful! I use an overlay (also in the description):
Overlay: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483838-warthunder-real-time-information/
@@AdamTheEnginerd Thank you so much for replying man. I was just wondering, is it safe to use? I mean can it be recognized as a third party addon and make you eligible for a ban or something?
When i used to play warthunder i find that the BF109 is easy to manage with MEC but the P47 and P51 will out perform the bf109 in MEC since the OIL and RADIATORS the p47 and p51 have the same control
Not sure what you mean.
I’ve just spent the best part of a day to establish the J21 works best ( for me- flying this plane, I’d rather suck up the few percent absolute performance hit to have an extra 60-100 HP everywhere else, but that suits how I fly in the plane) with 75% prop pitch, and 40% radiators. I should have just waited until this came out :D
Hahaha! At least now you're certain of the result ;).
Hey hey Adam! Thanks for another great video. Perhaps you could shed some light on a topic I can't really understand: Why do we want a fine pitch for climbing and coarse pitch for level flight (to get max speed)? My understanding is that piston engine has certain RPM where it generates the most power so we want to keep engine on that RPM no matter climbing or level flying. So first we set our pitch to achieve desired RPM on certain altitude. As we climb the air becomes thinner and it's easier for prop to cut through the air so RPM increases. We decrease pitch (make prop more coarse) thus decreasing RPM back to its optimal. Now let's assume we are in level flight at around sea level where air is the most dense. In your other vids I've seen you decreased prop pitch to increase speed. But according to the above statements I've made, the air is the most dense down there so our optimal RPM is achieved with a quite fine pitch ~100%. However something like an early Spit seems to be having best speed in level flight at sea level at around 65-70% of pitch or so. Piston engine doesn't know if we are pointing our nose up or it's leveled, it just has its best RPM. The air doesn't know if we are climbing or not, it just has its density at given altitude. So where this "level flight speed increase with coarse prop" comes from?
Thanks
My pleasure!
Well it's mostly a myth that has been repeated a lot. Piston engines indeed are most efficient in a certain RPM range, that's why constant-speed props were used in WW2 to keep RPM constant by varying the pitch angle of the blades instead.
On some aircraft in WT like P47s, you get higher prop efficiency by lowering prop pitch (RPM) to 85% or so, and that compensates for the drop in power. I don't think that's the case for the vast majority of aircraft, but lower pitch does reduce overheating and hence lowers rads, making them faster.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Wow thanks for quick answer. Okay, I'll do my experiments but it really feels that level flight gets faster with a little bit lower prop pitch (At least certain aircrafts). Also, where did you get those JSONs from? :) Are they packed in client resource files somewhere?
Yeah I used these instructions to get the files: www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/8nq70p/tutorial_how_to_datamine_or_how_i_learned_to_stop/
@@AdamTheEnginerd I see, thanks. I used that tool before but there were so many files in there that I just got lost. Will take a more closer look. Many thanks and fly safe :)
MEC makes the Hs129 ALMOST fieldable; you feel like you actually get to do something that effects the gameplay before you get shotdown by stray .50cal bullet that grazed the tail section
I would use MEC but I feel like I dont know enough about aircraft in terms of engines and everything that has to do with it, I play just fine without although I encounter situations where some extra power would be useful. But like I said I dont think it for me
It's relatively straightforward, but indeed it's not necessary.
Apart from the initial climb, where I’d argue MEC makes a bit more of a difference (particularly towards the end of the climb once the non MEC-ed engine goes yellow and I need to drop throttle without MEC) if a percent or two difference in speed means life or death then I’ve made a mistake. I wouldn’t sweat it. I use MEC because I’m lazy and would rather not worry too much about overheating but most people I know, including some amazingly successful flyers, don’t bother with MEC. I use it as standard but there are plenty of planes such as the F6F, corsairs and thunderbolts where I don’t bother. Partly because MEC is more complex with those planes (some actually use mixture, for example) but largely because they have limited WEP anyway, and I’d rather WEP didn’t run out at an important time so I tend to use a lot more non-WEP sections to my climbs anyway. In testing the Corsairs and F6Fs have something like 8 minutes WEP only, so I might use 1/2 of that for the initial climb and then save the rest for emergencies. This tends to equate pretty well on most maps to when the engine needs to be cooled anyway, so I just leave everything on auto. Unfortunately every plane is a bit different. This would be OK if it were documented by Gaijin and there was some consistency in naming but this isn’t the case. Pitch means RPM on most, but not all planes. This really should be easy information to find but.... Gaijin.
I also feel and think its most important at the start of the match in the climbing phase depending if it works for an airplane or not getting that extra boost in climb gives you quite an advantage in altitude.
@@julianmorrisco I agree. I guess most German Planes especially the ones with MW50 have "unlimited" WEP coz it lasts for the whole mission time which is mostly 1-2 hours. :) Curious about other nations with own designs like Britain, Japan Italy & SovietUnion :)
I wish there was a climb script which automatically gets the best engine performance
It's debatable what "best" is. Closing rads will be good for running away or to catch someone, while open will be better for climb to not overheat. A script wouldn't be able to judge that.
@@AdamTheEnginerd If such a script could get data from localhost, maybe it could use IAS to judge which settings to apply, open radiators and higher revs below lets say 350 kph, and lower rads and revs when above that speed
Maybe something like pyautogui could help ??
Thanks for the useful video Adam. I play on PS4 and I want to start using MEC now. I do have a keyboard plugged in that I use for a few basic commands but I want to bind controls for MEC. What are some keys I could use for these adjustments? Something not too complex. Most of my buttons on the keyboard are not binded to anything so there's alot of options. Thanks Adam I hope to hear your reply soon so I can improve my flight performances.
My pleasure!
Just watch part 1 of this video that DEFYN made: th-cam.com/video/RRzMcnCS4ag/w-d-xo.html
Can u make a tutorial how to install the overlay?
It's pretty easy to set up, can ask questions on my Discord though.
If u dont use MEC in planes such as 109s, F8Fs, Griffon SPits, LA9s u can forget to abuse WEP and get all the power. Specialy in the F8F
Some of it yes.
TROC đã đến đây
Good.
So thats why the mustang keeps catching fire
Uh why?
I could never get the overlay to work over the game screen, it always opens up only on the browser and never shows on the game window like in this video
Yeah I am seconding this, if there is a way to make the overlay stay on top of the game, I would love to know
You need to play in window or fullscreen window for it to appear. When I stream I can show how if you ask, but that's pretty much it.
@@apaxx3950 turn the overlay on, go into the overlays settings and make sure the osd type is set to 'WTRTI'. then, once its open, open the game settings. go to options -> graphics and set 'Mode' to 'Fullscreen window'. hope that helps
@@lemon6171 you're an angel, thank you :)
3:56 p47 Tokyo drifting
Duhn duhn duhn.
Adam, I just found out you have never done a video on the yak3p :( try it? Such a popular plane
I do though, didn't find it?
@@AdamTheEnginerd only the yak3u and yak3vk
Here it is: th-cam.com/video/HCtfUVz0Ibs/w-d-xo.html
@@AdamTheEnginerd oh wow :D you keep surprising me with the creator to subscriber interaction. Thanks man!
@@Jayjay-ef2gt My pleasure!
how to turn on that engine indicators in the middle left side on the screen, if it's possible then that would help with engine optimisation
Show the yak-3 some love please 🥺
I have an old Yak3P video. Alternatively, request it on stream.
Hi Adam, what happen to the propeller pitch when you decrease throttle in automatic mode? I believe it decrease with the throttle in order to avoid the air brake.
Yup decreases both.
Can you make a video where you compare the Fw 190 D-9 to the Tempest Mk V (OR P-51D-30)?
Hmm why?
@@AdamTheEnginerd They both have their own strengths and weaknesses and I think it'd be a pretty close fight
Do you have an updated MEC guide? The one on the forums has planes missing from it that are in the tree now, I also think many of them are out of date or have changed. Sometimes it seems to do very little.
Yeah try doing that in missil thunder
Doing what?
@@AdamTheEnginerd doing all the mec stuff, in a mach 2 jet with a mach 3+ missil behind u 😂, i might use mec for radiator only some props overheat way to fast, great vid btw.
@@gabrielabreu5200 Thanks!
Wait, how do you set up the indication of how much power your aircraft is outputting. I don't see it in options or controls
Overlay: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483838-warthunder-real-time-information/
how put the indicators on the left of the screen? with all parameters of fly?
Where do you find radiator drag numbers?
Flight model files!
Can you do a video on a swedish plane please? J21A-1 is great, but also J20 and J22-B
On my list!
@@AdamTheEnginerd thanks
Who dat n00b defy 😋
Big n00b.
How you got additional info (in the left)?
How do I optimize this for my MiG-17, doesn’t climb well enough
Play props.
Fun fact- all American jet engines with Afterburners have manual oil radiator control
@@igoryst3049 wait WHAT. can it prevent the f100's oil from deep frying my engine on sicily?
Can we get an explanation on the commonly regarded “broken” FMs of War Thunder(eg. A6M5, AU-1)
Why are those "broken"?
AdamTheEnginerd some people think that Japanese planes have too good energy retention, later Corsair models have unresponsive rail control; I put “broken” because idk if these are realistic or not
For energy retention they match what I would expect. You mean rudder for Corsairs? Indeed it stiffens up more than most other planes. There is an issue with the relative difference in stiffening between US and other nations planes indeed.
I still can't figureouthowto bind prop pitch, ivespent our in training on realistic and messing with controls
I have a query, flying the bf109 e1 and e4, whenever I turn on mer engine performance instantly decreases
You need to know what you are doing to MEC with early Bf109s.
7:30
I know at least 1 plane where WEP mode isnt on 100% but on 92% prop pitch instead - I-185 M-72. So check the manual first
What do you mean?
@@AdamTheEnginerd according to the forum page and automated engine control, I-185 M71's WEP mode listed at 2300 RPM, but at 100% pitch I got around 2500 RPM insead. I dont know if its a bug or a feature
Hmm.
so wait
on allied planes that has no prop pitch limiter should match the engine RPM ?
Not quite sure I follow, but on Allied planes they give a target RPM and the governor changes the pitch to achieve that RPM, in contrast to German props which take direct control of the pitch angle when you change prop pitch.
Does anyone know if there is still an overlay available for all the mec parameters?
How to show the data on the left?
Radiator drag AFAIK counts as parasite drag, and shouldn‘t really account for much efficiency losses at climb speeds.
Exactly, but it does affect cooling and if you need to throttle down and lose power as a result from time to time, climb suffers.
Do you know how localhost extracts the overlay data from WT?
I do not know the details.
How'd you get that stats thing like thrust and power? Is that a thing after rank 2 you see?
how can i toggle these statistic on the lower left??? it's not shown on default
hey How do i bring all those things show on left side under "Instructor" ?
Overlay: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483838-warthunder-real-time-information/
How do i know i am ready?
what is the program or script used to have the extra info like power thrust etc?
How do u get those indicators. I want one so i could study aircrafts in sim
Overlay: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483838-warthunder-real-time-information/
Regarding the overheating threshold lowering:
Is this a function of temps being too high too long, or simply because of altitude? There was a 2km difference when you showed the two examples. Higher altitude = lower boiling point?
The cooling system is pressurized and has no outside port, so the outside temperature is not relevant in this case. You could stay at sea level and the same thing would happen.
@@AdamTheEnginerd I’m an idiot. Didn’t even consider that. Thanks for the response and the amazing content. Do you have a Patreon?
@@I_am_not_a_dog My pleasure! I do not have a Patreon at the present time, but I appreciate the sentiment!
Howdy Adam, a little question for you: is it possible to get that overlay when playing on console? Really bums me out when I'm not using MEC to it's full potential- it's a cool feature!
No it's not, but you can get the same info on another device with this method:
It's called the "local host".
How to access the "local host":
You need to be running War Thunder or it won't work!
Option 1: on the same computer that is running WT:
-Type localhost:8111/ in the address bar and press enter and voila.
Option 2 (which also works on the computer that runs WT):
-Type Your_IP_Address:8111/ where you replace "Your_IP_Address" by your IP Address (192.168.X.XXX) in the address bar and press enter and voila, you can look at the characteristics on another device while flying.
@@AdamTheEnginerd thank you very much! I shall see if I could do this on my PS4.
Does auto prop pitch mode always result in the best performance? I can't access localhost at the moment to check on my own.
Nope, P47s are one exception for example where 85% prop pitch is better.
how do i get the engine stat overlay?
Overlay: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483838-warthunder-real-time-information/
Also in the description.
How do you that addition to the hud on the left side?
Overlay: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483838-warthunder-real-time-information/
could you explain what is the difference car's rpm and aircraft rpm and why my car doesn't overheat when i drive full power and approximately 4000 rpm in highway?
Good question! First off, smaller engines tend to run at higher RPMs, and an aircraft engine is much bigger than your car's engine (hopefully), so you can't simply compare RPMs. Then there's the question of cooling flow. In cars, speed and power are more closely related than for aircraft. For example, the most difficult thermal case for an aircraft is climbing at full power due to the relatively lower speed and high power requirements. At full speed on the highway, you'd have a lot of airflow for cooling. If you tried to mimic an aircraft climb in a car, for example climbing at a very steep gradient at full power, I suspect your car could not sustain that for long.
@@AdamTheEnginerd thank you
i have a question, is it worth to use radiator control on yaks or ill just burn the engine faster?
Of course it's worth it, you decide how much you burn your engine.
how do you get the overlay?
Do you think you can do this but for jets?
No MEC for jets.
hey adam should my prop pitch be the same as my THR cuz I don't really understand how it works I'm using the G56 btw
Yeah that rule of thumb works well in nearly every case.
@@AdamTheEnginerd thx
Can someone link the hud that adam uses? I cannot seem 2 find it
Overlay: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483838-warthunder-real-time-information/
Also in the description.
Haha I loved the american flag whenyou said Oil radiator
Same ;).