@@s.a.f.r.a6403only a few japanese fighters suffer from those problems, but luckily the vast majority of them even the bad ones can outmaneuver basically everything with a few exceptions of course.
@@Feuervix But its true? their low altitude performance is due to majority of them excluding A6M,Ki-43 being for high altitude bomber hunting interception "disregarding aircraft incorrectly labeled" I know what I'm talking about, go look at the Xrays alot of them have great engine power but their top speeds can only be reached at higher altitudes hence them using turbos and superchargers on some aircraft later A6M had water methanol injection to have cool intake air temperatures The B-29 was the target that they where trying to take out because nothing they had was capable of intercepting it effectively to the end of the war
@generic__ I wouldn't say that, but usually it's about the team composition. Very often if my team consists mainly of US or Germany players their lack of understanding leads them to a quick demise against Spitfires and Zeros (both enemies & teammates don't know what they're doing so they resort to crude dogfighting where the turnfighters win)
I had to actually look up the P-47N even after I spaded it 5 years ago and for anyone who didnt know, the N variant was purpose built for the Pacific theater so it could have the range to be competitive. I just wish gaijin stopped giving american aircraft 30 minutes of min fuel
Playing the P47 on WT is like driving a race car in a parking lot. You rarely have the opportunity to exploit this plane's strength, all count kills and KD stats aside, it's just a frustrating aircraft to play in the end. Though when you play a high alt map like Pyrenees, the fun factor instantly pops up. Maybe the P-47 needs again an airspawn after all.
The TA-152H, Hornet, and P-38K get airspawns so why not P-47s? Never understood why they took it away on a plane that has only 12 minutes of WEP and becomes anemic without it.
@@FIGURE332 Yeah the 12 minutes WEP is the last straw that breaks the camel's back for the P-47. Gaijin should give it an attacker status like the Wyvern and be done with it. Don't hold your breath tho...
@@FIGURE332 Hornet and 38K don't need their air spawns. Neither does the XP-50. The 152H needs it because it is over BRed and without it the 152H just isn't competitive at all. The P-47s had an air spawn and were serious clubbers because they were under BRed. They went up in BR and lost their air spawns. This was before the N was added though. The N should have had an air spawn from the start because it is the worst climbing fighter above 2.3 that isn't the S-199.
@@rainsilentthe N was added before P-47s got their airspawn (and before they lost it, obviously). I am surprised as well how people dont remember how hard they used to club, but the N is so sad without it 😢
Btw. Gaijin didn't buff P47Ns because they were realeasing a premium. It's just Metrallaroja noticed F-47N would have worse engine than old P47N. Then he noticed that both engines are actually incorrect and also both planes are 375kg too heavy, and bug reported it. So if noting was done this premium would be even worse than old P-47N.
@@supershid464nah, it’s just bc gaijin usually fixes fms on dev server as that’s the easiest time to fix bugs for them (between patches they’re usually full-scale working on the next patch to keep schedule, so not a lot of time for major fm changes
If you didn’t notice, the p-47m also got its min fuel increased from 24 mins to 34 mins, so it is a bit heavier than it used to be, and also its fuel consumption was increased to so it might end up draining its fuel sooner than before, when min fuel could help you retain on air for the whole match
I like the idea of this plane more than I like actually flying it. So much suffering for the occasional, "oh neat, couldn't do that in a P-47D" SURE WOULD BE NICE IF THE MINIMUM FUEL LOAD WASN'T TWICE WHAT YOU WOULD EVER NEED.
@@8-bithades305 Nor does it make sense for bombers to have over half an hour min fuel load in 25min games, but for now we are stuck with gaijin's 30% policy. So it makes sense even though I don't like it and neither do you
@@sainesanalsa3324 You both could try what many of us tried in the past. Go to the forums with a request for 20 or 25 mins of fuel for *insert name of aircraft here* that doesn't have a min fuel below 30 mins. It is what Gaijin asked us to do in the past and Gaijin never did it when we did. Maybe now they will.
p47m was the premium i spammed to early jets when i first got into this game. It was so frustrating watching enemies just climb over me, by the time i side climb most of my team is dead just as you said. I wish this thing had an airspawn make it a threat because i love them things. holy shit a 20 minute p47 video
Yeha, then they lost air spawn and got sent up in br and now are definitely on the "bad" side.....they are still fun af, you are just not competitive as most other plane
game needs something to incentivise playing at high alt. Maybe a game mode where one team needs to defend a bomber formation and one needs to attack it.
I've been saying this for a while now. One of war thunders main problems is the stale and uncreative gamemodes. Imagine if like you said we had a intercept/protect bombers gamemode or something like that to give these high altitude planes the advantage they deserve instead of the standard battle arena 5 minute climb to battle which inevitably ends in ground pounding
I love these planes so much I have the M but yes everything you said in the first 2 minutes it's so painful seeing so many games end before you can get into position
What really kills planes like the P-47s is the 25 minute match duration. We need 45min to 1hour matches. Gaijin could simply add new air rb gamemodes that last longer ( air rb EC ). The community has been talking about air rb improvements since a very long time, It is really insane how little war thunder gamemodes have evolved since the beginning.
The tech tree P-47N used to be my comfort aircraft in Sim, but a while ago they did something to the rudder and it spins ridiculously easy now. I've tried a couple of times to go back to it, but I can't seem to fly the thing anymore.
my best play is the P-47D-28, I have like a 3-1 ratio in it and consistently turn fights, defyn plays it alot different than I do however so its interesting to see how he engages. After finishing the video my tip is this: F the team & F the meta, climb to 5000+ and work your way down from highest alt fighter and always keep your energy advantage, never dog fight, your teammates are there to keep and pull players to lower alt who cant retain massive energy like the P-47 in a straight line can, boom & zoom from 5000 unless youre dealing with same alt enemies, and never dogfight more than a single turn, boom & zooming the P-47 is very controllable past 750-825 KM/h compared to nearly ever other prop I have played in similar BR's & nothing will ever catch you after pulling out of a dive & regaining alt. you can push players down and force them to dive and reduce alt until theyre on the deck & you can overwhelm most props with your very spread out & very high volume of fire, even a few hits of your .50's can be massively detrimental to good props proformance, at which point regain alt if you dont kill them & keep a very keen eye open for any and all hostiles.
I remember this thing being a lot better when it first came out, or at the very least I made it work. I played it so much the game threw a talisman at it for me. After a while though it started being about as useful as a whale with a dodgy Russian turbojet strapped to it trying to turn with clipped fins. Might have to try it again.
I recently got back into grinding the US tree and I'm a completionist, I spade everything and let me tell you I nearly lost my mind grinding through the P47s. The meta is made for zeroes, spitfires and yaks, not for slow methodical boom and zoom interceptor fighters. It's pretty much in the same boat as the P51-D20, needs alt but sucks at climbing. Sometimes you get a match where everything goes right and you can get like 3-6 kills but those a far and few between, 90% of the matches are either 1v10 or 10v1 and in both scenarios you don't get anything done.
"The meta is made for zeroes, spitfires and yaks" The meta is defined by the actions of the players in the match. Most players play the game in a way that highly favors planes good in head ons, why the J22 and J21s are so over BRed, or great in knife fights. You get a group of 4 good players in fast planes and suddenly the meta of the match is speed.
@rainsilent it's half the players and half the gamemode design. There is and has always been a low altitude meta because all the objectives are on the ground and fighters start from the ground. If the game started people off at say 5000m which is a more believable scenario it would be a high altitude meta. And because of how the arenas are set up knife fights are somewhat encouraged This does in fact lead to planes like yaks being incredibly meta
@@nade5557 Game mode only has a say in terms of auto ticket bleed. The players 100% have a say in everything else based on how they play. It doesn't matter that the fighters start from the ground or even that the ticket targets are at low alt. At least until the players start interacting with them. Every 3rd match or so there is at least one player from each team, if not a group, climbing to space in fighters and then chasing each other around. If more players were inclined to do it high alt fighting would, naturally, become the meta.* Likewise if more players were to fly fast planes and then use teamwork rather than relying on maneuverability then speed would be the meta. The maps are certainly big enough to support it in general given most, if not all, prop maps are 40x40km or bigger. * So long as the ticket situation didn't turn in favor for one team because one player went after tickets. Yes, where the tickets are encourage players to gather in that location. Short of maps that have relatively quick auto loss conditions, like some Pacific maps, players don't have to interact with them though. They do so entirely by choice. The tickets being in one place isn't as meta defining as you are making it out to be on most maps because there just isn't the actual requirement for players to engage with them. In reality it isn't 50/50 like you say. It is, at worst, 90/10 players to game and I'd argue closer to 97/3. Players choosing to go after ticket targets is a combination of boredom because they don't want to chase, desire to play bombers/attackers, a lack of good decision making, the desire to get easy rp/sl or, oddly enough, good decision making in trying to force someone running to come to them or lose via tickets. All of that is players choosing to interact with it. The few maps where one team has to interact or lose automatically is few and far between. Thus the "game mode" can't be greater than 10% of the blame at most.
@rainsilent it turns out that the game finishes by auto ticket bleed a disturbing amount of times. In fact it's one of the problems with air RB. Also, the starting and win conditions heavily influence how the players want to play. Keep in mind it's a game so people want to actually have fun. This usually leads them to doing anything rather than nothing. Combine that with the fact that the maps may be large but the objectives are concentrated in the middle of it, and you have a furball meta. Don't even get me started on top tier jets. Ultimately, the player does have all the agency. But nobody in the game takes off, turns 180 degrees, climbs to space then enters the middle of the map. Why? Because its boooring. As much as the players have the choice of what to do, they will choose the fun/engaging option 9 times out of 10 because of the carrot and stick nature of games: they play on our reward system to keep people engaged. So whilst people CAN spaceclimb off the side of the map, most people won't because like I said, it's a game and people want to have fun. Imagine instead if you started at 5000 metres and the objective was to shoot down a bomber formation at 10000m. We both know that the players would swarm like locusts up there, or at least try to. Then there's the fact that some planes just don't climb well. There are only a few players at high alt because only a few planes can get up there easily. Something like the P47 which performs well at alt but has a hard time getting there has to side climb. By the time you side climb up there, everyone else has gone down and there will still be some ki-44, yak 3 or 109 above you. Furthermore, given an enemy with a height advantage, most will dive down to escape it. This is what also causes the meta of low alt. If everyone was high up, the highest plane would still have an advantage, forcing everyone on the enemy team down so they don't die. Gravity causes this meta partly as well lol. So basically A) there's nothing up there (player related) because B) it's boring for most to get up there (game design related) or because C) other planes get there faster (game design) which leads to D) diving to escape (player and game related) and E) ground pounding because what else is there to do (game design), or ground pounding to win by tickets whilst the enemy is up in space enjoying the view Game design and games in general are an interaction between the structures in place and the players. It may not be 50/50 but in terms of the meta being defined its around that
@@nade5557 I know many games end by ticket bleed but on almost every map when it does it is because the players interacted with the ticket targets. If they didn't then ticket bleed would end in a tie and those don't happen often. Also if players didn't normal ticket bleed would end the match on it's own around the 25 minute mark or later on maps where bomber points respawn. Thus this entire issue of the game ending on ticket bleed is 99% of the time because of the players, not the game mode. "Also, the starting and win conditions heavily influence how the players want to play." Yes, no. There is an argument both ways here. Neither of which you touch on. Rather you make this very weak argument instead... "Keep in mind it's a game so people want to actually have fun. This usually leads them to doing anything rather than nothing. Combine that with the fact that the maps may be large but the objectives are concentrated in the middle of it, and you have a furball meta." This is 100% irrelevant to the point above, and, frankly, a fairly weak one. Yes, players want to have fun but if the tickets weren't tickets but just targets that were completely irrelevant to the game beyond just existing many players would still go after them regardless. As for furball meta it is going to happen regardless. On plenty of maps the furball doesn't happen above the tickets. Players have conditioned themselves to fly roughly to the middle of the map because that is where you typically run into enemy players. The average player isn't interested in proper tactical air combat. They just want herp a derp ace combat esque vibes. Thus they do the brain dead thing of just fly right into the enemy looking for easy kills. This has absolutely nothing to do with the tickets, where they are or any other element of the game mode. It is simply the nature of the average derpy WT player. More proof that it is closer to 90% players fault of what the "meta" is. "Ultimately, the player does have all the agency." Then why are you trying to argue a weak @ss position to the contrary and shift the blame from the players to Gaijin? "But nobody in the game takes off, turns 180 degrees, climbs to space then enters the middle of the map. Why? Because its boooring." 100% a you problem. Not a game mode problem. Likewise learning proper air combat is "boooring" to the average player too and you frequently see the average player throw rude comments at those that do. The average player doesn't give a $hit about playing smart, learning air combat or becoming a better player. All of those issues are the source to the problem we are discussing. This all has nothing to do with the tickets, the game mode or Gaijin in any way. I get that climbing for 5+ minutes gets boring fairly quick. This is why I typically fill that time with information gathering like map conditions, possible composition of the opposing team, how I am going to deal with potential threats given the environment, et cetera. This is where disciplining your mind to focus on what needs to be done is a difference maker. The greater the lack of mental discipline the more a given player will struggle. Or in situations where the teams are small and there isn't a lot of environmental conditions to take note of I just admire my aircraft/the scenery because WT can really be a beautiful game. This is something you can't do in AB jets because the time from takeoff to combat is usually under 2 mins. This is one major reason why I don't play jets. It can literally be just takeoff and jump straight into the action and I don't want that. "Imagine instead if you started at 5000 metres and the objective was to shoot down a bomber formation at 10000m. We both know that the players would swarm like locusts up there, or at least try to." No, they wouldn't. You think climbing from 100m to 5km in 5ish minutes is boooring? 5km to 10km is double that or more for most props in the game. Never mind that the higher in alt you go the slower the action gets. Meaning the longer it takes to run someone down, the longer it takes to climb up to a fight, everything takes double the time, if not more, to do something 8km+ than it does down at 2km. Combat 7km+ is a lot slower paced in props than at low alt and most of the player base doesn't have the patience, or discipline, to be patient in low altitude combat. Don't know what gives you the impression that that would change for high alt combat but it is arguably the least rational point you have presented thus far in this entire conversation. "By the time you side climb up there, everyone else has gone down and there will still be some ki-44, yak 3 or 109 above you." You want to see a Ki-44 or Yak-3, so long as it isn't a 3U or 3VK, above you in a P-47 at 6km+. That is a dumb player that doesn't know what they are doing. A Ki-44 or Yak-3 doesn't have the engine power to be a threat to a P-47 6km+ unless the P-47 is a bad player or just doesn't know how to fight at altitude. Above 6km the P-47 is faster and actually out climbs both of them. It also has significantly better energy retention 6km+. Abuse those advantages and those things will be very, very easy kills, even if you see them above you. "Furthermore, given an enemy with a height advantage, most will dive down to escape it. This is what also causes the meta of low alt." Most dive down because they are dumb, don't know what they are doing and don't have a plan. Entirely player fault, not game mode fault. "If everyone was high up, the highest plane would still have an advantage, forcing everyone on the enemy team down so they don't die." At high alt the highest plane does not have an advantage, or at least the advantage you think they might have. 7km+ what aircraft have the engine power to actually perform at those alts is way more important than who is higher. Also who is faster is way more important at those alts because energy retention is poor at those alts. Most aircraft are going to completely piss away all of their speed in less than 1 turn at those alts. The more speed you can carry the faster you can maneuver your aircraft around at those alts. Air combat 6km+ is very, very different to air combat 5km and below. "So basically A) there's nothing up there (player related) because B) it's boring for most to get up there (game design related) or because C) other planes get there faster (game design) which leads to D) diving to escape (player and game related) and E) ground pounding because what else is there to do (game design), or ground pounding to win by tickets whilst the enemy is up in space enjoying the view " A. Correct. B. Completely incorrect. It being boring to climb is a player problem. Impatience or lack of mental discipline isn't a game mode problem when the limitation is the aircraft. C. How is it game design of a 2010s game that the 109G out climbed the P-47D back in 1944? I'd love to see the logic behind this claim. D. Half right and half wrong. Players diving away has nothing to do with game mode. There is absolutely nothing you can do in the game mode, outside of punishing the players by auto killing them, to do anything about this. E. Tell that to Defyn or Pilot or virtually every one else that is a good fighter pilot. This isn't a game mode problem. It is a player decision making and mental discipline problem. "Game design and games in general are an interaction between the structures in place and the players. It may not be 50/50 but in terms of the meta being defined its around that" It isn't close. You yourself even admitted it above when you said this: "Ultimately, the player does have all the agency." You are trying to shoehorn excuses to shift the blame from the players, specifically their actions and decision making, to Gaijin.
Amazing as in the real world it was one of the fastest prop fighters of wwII and the r2800 was one of the most powerful engines, plus the paddle prop improved climb over early p47’s
Have you ever done a video on the XP-55 I absolutely love that plane..its a killer please do a video on it. it is amazing, I am so glad they upped it from rank 2 to rank 3 and you can easily take into 6.3 matches and slay in it, i don't think any prop in the game has the energy retention this plane has, and it is not uncommon to pull over 12Gs in it it is one of the few planed that can black me out with it sustained high g turning ability, yes it has shit rudders but is is a weird plane and in ground RB it is a menace easily strafing out tanks with all that firepower in the nose.
As a p47N connoisseur a slight buff is really nice. I love using it, people dunno what it’s really capable until it’s way above someone. And people get confused why I don’t take certain dogfights. It’s because I know I’m not a 47d 28 nor the razor back. I just want skins for the 47N. Because I’m on console💀 also I can’t lock people anymore behind me in air rb. I’m forced to play counter cas in ground rb.
While it may not be brilliant now, I've definitely noticed the increase in flight performance and it's much less punishing to fly now. Frankly, given my experience with the D-28, the N-15 flies incredibly similar until it comes to performance in high speed turns, you can absolutely whip that thing around as long as you don't get too slow. May not be the best P-47 still, but in my opinion it's definitely not the worst one now.
They kinda killed air rb when they made a physics model where every turnfighter ufo can prophang till the end of time and energy fighters can’t do anything anymore
would probably help if your min fuel wasn't almost an hour for a max 25 minute game... the Griffon spitfires are the only props where WEP increases fuel consumption noticeably and even they rarely need even 20mins of fuel
great content as always. can you please explain how the WEP works in Air RB. i noticed that if i use it a lot in the BF109 at the begining of the match, later the engine will overheat almost instantly and at lower temperatures.
The only game mode that the thunderbolts are viable is endurance confrontation, thats because it the old school model that air RB use to be but its sim only and sice its sim gaijin pretty much left it untouch
Makes me wonder if further changes to BRs done by separating GRB BRs from ARB will make the P47N and M a little bit more enjoyable. I'm not holding my breath, though.
M is already at a good BR for it performance wise. Going lower in BR is inadvisable. The issue is that the matches are so short that you are forced to rush when the plane when flown properly tactically is about patience. The N is just flat out over BRed. The N is worse than the 4.3 P-47D.
I don't get headons in this game. I swear if I tried that headon with the Spitfire, I would die about 80% of the time and if I was lucky I would land one hit.
That Yak-3 is the most typical WT teammate. I've died so many times or just wasted half a match simply because a teammate could not give a single damn, while I was presenting him an easy kill. Also C.205 Serie 3 and N2 are both absolutely horrible. They've got a decent roll and high speed maenuvrability, but nowhere near good enough to really matter, other than in BnZ. But if they are not above the enemy, they can and will get absolutely slaughtered by same-tier Bf 109, which has vastly better performance and probably turns better too. And don't forget they're also facing Yak-3 G.55 S0 compared to C.205 S3/N2 is an absolute gem. C.205 Serie 1 is kinda OK, but it's hilarious to have these anemic guns vs P-47 N ( I guess dude ended up in full uptier).
The 205 Serie 3 isn't horrible. It is slightly over BRed. It should be 4.0, maybe 4.3, but is 4,7. The N2 is horrible. It is, at best, a 3.7 plane that sits at 4.7. Yes, the 109s turn better. The turn rate of the 205 serie 3 is slightly better than a 190A5. The N2 is worse than any 190A that is clean a la no external stores being carried. The 205 Serie 1 in comparison is just shy of the 109F4/G2 realm of maneuverability. The added weight of the serie 3 and N2 really take a toll on the maneuverability of the 205. The Serie 1 is in a perfect spot for it performance wise. It's guns are bad but it is very competitive performance wise at that BR. This is what should happen with aircraft with bad guns. Funnily enough I almost hate the G.55s. They feel like gimped 109s that traded everything good about them for some turn rate. Also the P-47Ns should be 4.3. It flat out is not competitive at 4.7 performance wise. The P-47D-25 is arguably an equal performing aircraft overall and sits at 4.3. The N has, maybe, slightly better climb and is faster in level flight by some 30kmh but the D-25 is more agile.
Could you play the F-15J(M) to showcase the AAM-4s? I feel like they are super lacking but would really appreciate your thoughts on it. Unless you are brutally tired of top tier of course
300kg? glad gaijin found where your mom was hiding
Ice cold
Thanks that you thought she weighs so little 😇
nah they only found her toe nails
DAYUM
Christ
Ah yes the "needs altitude but sucks at climbing" combo
An american classic
Sounds like most of Japans fighters that are slow on the deck
No surprise they lost the war.
@@s.a.f.r.a6403only a few japanese fighters suffer from those problems, but luckily the vast majority of them even the bad ones can outmaneuver basically everything with a few exceptions of course.
@@Feuervix
But its true? their low altitude performance is due to majority of them excluding A6M,Ki-43 being for high altitude bomber hunting interception "disregarding aircraft incorrectly labeled" I know what I'm talking about, go look at the Xrays alot of them have great engine power but their top speeds can only be reached at higher altitudes hence them using turbos and superchargers on some aircraft later A6M had water methanol injection to have cool intake air temperatures
The B-29 was the target that they where trying to take out because nothing they had was capable of intercepting it effectively to the end of the war
Gaijin hates American planes lol
pyorremyrsky on enemy team: outclimbs you, outturns you and over all completely obliterates you
pyorremyrsky on my team: haha bomber, I kill
That's me, probably :)
True dude
you either get competent teamates that run everyone down before you get a chance or lobotomites that chase the first thing they see
@generic__ I wouldn't say that, but usually it's about the team composition.
Very often if my team consists mainly of US or Germany players their lack of understanding leads them to a quick demise against Spitfires and Zeros (both enemies & teammates don't know what they're doing so they resort to crude dogfighting where the turnfighters win)
I had to actually look up the P-47N even after I spaded it 5 years ago and for anyone who didnt know, the N variant was purpose built for the Pacific theater so it could have the range to be competitive. I just wish gaijin stopped giving american aircraft 30 minutes of min fuel
You really need this nuch fuel? Lmao
this thing has 1 HOUR worth of fuel 💀, and takes 7 minutes to climb
I remember when they first added this and I was so excited, then it was just super sluggish...
How's it going Lee?
@@kavemanboi3876 yo, how's it going?
When it was first added it had a juicy airspawn.
Playing the P47 on WT is like driving a race car in a parking lot. You rarely have the opportunity to exploit this plane's strength, all count kills and KD stats aside, it's just a frustrating aircraft to play in the end. Though when you play a high alt map like Pyrenees, the fun factor instantly pops up. Maybe the P-47 needs again an airspawn after all.
The TA-152H, Hornet, and P-38K get airspawns so why not P-47s? Never understood why they took it away on a plane that has only 12 minutes of WEP and becomes anemic without it.
@@FIGURE332 Yeah the 12 minutes WEP is the last straw that breaks the camel's back for the P-47. Gaijin should give it an attacker status like the Wyvern and be done with it. Don't hold your breath tho...
@@FIGURE332 Hornet and 38K don't need their air spawns. Neither does the XP-50. The 152H needs it because it is over BRed and without it the 152H just isn't competitive at all. The P-47s had an air spawn and were serious clubbers because they were under BRed. They went up in BR and lost their air spawns. This was before the N was added though. The N should have had an air spawn from the start because it is the worst climbing fighter above 2.3 that isn't the S-199.
@@rainsilentthe N was added before P-47s got their airspawn (and before they lost it, obviously). I am surprised as well how people dont remember how hard they used to club, but the N is so sad without it 😢
@@jercki72 I thought the N was added around the time they got their airspawn removed. Thanks for the correction.
10:28 classic defyn utilizing his endless army of mind controlled grunts and paid actors to crash into the ground for the video
"Me still patiently waiting for the Fokker G.1A video"
Vids done
Soon
Me still waiting for defyn to drop war thunder for world of warplanes
Jk pls don't ban
@@НААТ hows bro gonna ban you from his channel
@@НААТdesgusten!
Btw. Gaijin didn't buff P47Ns because they were realeasing a premium. It's just Metrallaroja noticed F-47N would have worse engine than old P47N. Then he noticed that both engines are actually incorrect and also both planes are 375kg too heavy, and bug reported it. So if noting was done this premium would be even worse than old P-47N.
they could've accelerated the fixing because of the premium though
ah, true!
I love the Corsair man
U 2 Alpaca man
@@supershid464nah, it’s just bc gaijin usually fixes fms on dev server as that’s the easiest time to fix bugs for them (between patches they’re usually full-scale working on the next patch to keep schedule, so not a lot of time for major fm changes
If you didn’t notice, the p-47m also got its min fuel increased from 24 mins to 34 mins, so it is a bit heavier than it used to be, and also its fuel consumption was increased to so it might end up draining its fuel sooner than before, when min fuel could help you retain on air for the whole match
14:55 for anyone than thinks this… you should see what Defyn says about the zero 😂
I like the idea of this plane more than I like actually flying it. So much suffering for the occasional, "oh neat, couldn't do that in a P-47D"
SURE WOULD BE NICE IF THE MINIMUM FUEL LOAD WASN'T TWICE WHAT YOU WOULD EVER NEED.
It even says it on the tin
P47N
PAIN
Finally he played the plane that rivals the weight of my mother. Nice 👍
"You know who else weighs as much as a P-47?"
Your Prop Videos are oddly soothing to me hmm, it's kinda chill and laid back in a good way!
This thing has like bomber levels of fuel wtf
Well it was in fact made to fly with bomber formations so that does indeed make sense. Although in game it's not very helpful
@@sainesanalsa3324It does not make sense for it to have a minimum fuel load the size of a bomber’s in game.
@@8-bithades305 Nor does it make sense for bombers to have over half an hour min fuel load in 25min games, but for now we are stuck with gaijin's 30% policy. So it makes sense even though I don't like it and neither do you
@@sainesanalsa3324 You both could try what many of us tried in the past. Go to the forums with a request for 20 or 25 mins of fuel for *insert name of aircraft here* that doesn't have a min fuel below 30 mins. It is what Gaijin asked us to do in the past and Gaijin never did it when we did. Maybe now they will.
@@rainsilent I have actually done that in the past, but thank you for the reminder, I don't think I have actually done it for thunderbolts
3:34 to quote Kenshiro here, “omae wa mou shinderu.” Couldn’t resist as Defyn says this in English lol
who knew a plane that benefits greatly from sideclimbing would be doodoo cheeks in a fly-straight-in kinda meta
thanks gaijiggles
p47m was the premium i spammed to early jets when i first got into this game. It was so frustrating watching enemies just climb over me, by the time i side climb most of my team is dead just as you said. I wish this thing had an airspawn make it a threat because i love them things.
holy shit a 20 minute p47 video
So excited to see defyn review his favorite plane! ❤
The Sergio Perez of P47's
Remember when the p-47 “cancerbolts” were THE meta for the entire br range?
Yeha, then they lost air spawn and got sent up in br and now are definitely on the "bad" side.....they are still fun af, you are just not competitive as most other plane
game needs something to incentivise playing at high alt. Maybe a game mode where one team needs to defend a bomber formation and one needs to attack it.
I've been saying this for a while now. One of war thunders main problems is the stale and uncreative gamemodes. Imagine if like you said we had a intercept/protect bombers gamemode or something like that to give these high altitude planes the advantage they deserve instead of the standard battle arena 5 minute climb to battle which inevitably ends in ground pounding
@@nade5557thats exacly why turn fighters are the meta
@lucasstocki1503 i think it depends on the rank (and by proxy skill of players). But across all ranks low alt fighters have the advantage
DID YOU KNOW THAT THE P47 THUNDERBOLT WON THE WAR? IT WON THE WAR!
Also thanks
I love these planes so much I have the M but yes everything you said in the first 2 minutes it's so painful seeing so many games end before you can get into position
Gijin: "Why doesn't anyone buy our premium vehicles?"
The premium vehicles:
What really kills planes like the P-47s is the 25 minute match duration. We need 45min to 1hour matches. Gaijin could simply add new air rb gamemodes that last longer ( air rb EC ).
The community has been talking about air rb improvements since a very long time, It is really insane how little war thunder gamemodes have evolved since the beginning.
I like how everyone appreciates nice fights
Love a prop vid! Would you consider covering one of the I-185s? I've always had a soft spot for these, and now they're quite low in BR.
Classic team, steals kills but leaves you to die alone…
The tech tree P-47N used to be my comfort aircraft in Sim, but a while ago they did something to the rudder and it spins ridiculously easy now. I've tried a couple of times to go back to it, but I can't seem to fly the thing anymore.
I remember when they added this thing. It had an air spawn and pulled like a demon and didn’t lose speed. It was soooo busted and so much fun lmao.
according to Wikipedia, a beluga whale only weighs up to 1,600kg, which is a lot less than a P-47N...
"That [making the BV 238 fighting video] was unironically more fun" *ouch*
sad that my favorite WW2 prop is an abysmal piece of dogshit :(
P47-d30 version is pretty decent
@@barskaya3534 well the N variant specifically is my favorite
Not abysmal, just for air to air theyre just outclassed in every regard by other planes. Its the definition of mediocre and not fun
It's not dogshit, the maps are just too small for it to get to a advantageous altitute.
@@Denkmaldrubernacht that's just gayjin messing up with good planes and overpowering dogshit Russian planes
I just realized but Defyn actually just yaps about his matches for almost the whole video like how a gf would after work
my best play is the P-47D-28, I have like a 3-1 ratio in it and consistently turn fights, defyn plays it alot different than I do however so its interesting to see how he engages.
After finishing the video my tip is this: F the team & F the meta, climb to 5000+ and work your way down from highest alt fighter and always keep your energy advantage, never dog fight, your teammates are there to keep and pull players to lower alt who cant retain massive energy like the P-47 in a straight line can, boom & zoom from 5000 unless youre dealing with same alt enemies, and never dogfight more than a single turn, boom & zooming the P-47 is very controllable past 750-825 KM/h compared to nearly ever other prop I have played in similar BR's & nothing will ever catch you after pulling out of a dive & regaining alt. you can push players down and force them to dive and reduce alt until theyre on the deck & you can overwhelm most props with your very spread out & very high volume of fire, even a few hits of your .50's can be massively detrimental to good props proformance, at which point regain alt if you dont kill them & keep a very keen eye open for any and all hostiles.
Top tier really does something to people. Almost looks like you're having fun in this video
I remember this thing being a lot better when it first came out, or at the very least I made it work. I played it so much the game threw a talisman at it for me. After a while though it started being about as useful as a whale with a dodgy Russian turbojet strapped to it trying to turn with clipped fins. Might have to try it again.
Much lower br and it had an airspawn lol
@@DEFYN That's probably it. I stopped paying attention to BRs cause it makes no sense and hurts my brain.
Yay, Jug is life, jug is love!
I recently got back into grinding the US tree and I'm a completionist, I spade everything and let me tell you I nearly lost my mind grinding through the P47s. The meta is made for zeroes, spitfires and yaks, not for slow methodical boom and zoom interceptor fighters. It's pretty much in the same boat as the P51-D20, needs alt but sucks at climbing.
Sometimes you get a match where everything goes right and you can get like 3-6 kills but those a far and few between, 90% of the matches are either 1v10 or 10v1 and in both scenarios you don't get anything done.
"The meta is made for zeroes, spitfires and yaks"
The meta is defined by the actions of the players in the match. Most players play the game in a way that highly favors planes good in head ons, why the J22 and J21s are so over BRed, or great in knife fights. You get a group of 4 good players in fast planes and suddenly the meta of the match is speed.
@rainsilent it's half the players and half the gamemode design. There is and has always been a low altitude meta because all the objectives are on the ground and fighters start from the ground. If the game started people off at say 5000m which is a more believable scenario it would be a high altitude meta. And because of how the arenas are set up knife fights are somewhat encouraged
This does in fact lead to planes like yaks being incredibly meta
@@nade5557 Game mode only has a say in terms of auto ticket bleed. The players 100% have a say in everything else based on how they play. It doesn't matter that the fighters start from the ground or even that the ticket targets are at low alt. At least until the players start interacting with them. Every 3rd match or so there is at least one player from each team, if not a group, climbing to space in fighters and then chasing each other around. If more players were inclined to do it high alt fighting would, naturally, become the meta.* Likewise if more players were to fly fast planes and then use teamwork rather than relying on maneuverability then speed would be the meta. The maps are certainly big enough to support it in general given most, if not all, prop maps are 40x40km or bigger.
* So long as the ticket situation didn't turn in favor for one team because one player went after tickets.
Yes, where the tickets are encourage players to gather in that location. Short of maps that have relatively quick auto loss conditions, like some Pacific maps, players don't have to interact with them though. They do so entirely by choice. The tickets being in one place isn't as meta defining as you are making it out to be on most maps because there just isn't the actual requirement for players to engage with them.
In reality it isn't 50/50 like you say. It is, at worst, 90/10 players to game and I'd argue closer to 97/3. Players choosing to go after ticket targets is a combination of boredom because they don't want to chase, desire to play bombers/attackers, a lack of good decision making, the desire to get easy rp/sl or, oddly enough, good decision making in trying to force someone running to come to them or lose via tickets. All of that is players choosing to interact with it. The few maps where one team has to interact or lose automatically is few and far between. Thus the "game mode" can't be greater than 10% of the blame at most.
@rainsilent it turns out that the game finishes by auto ticket bleed a disturbing amount of times. In fact it's one of the problems with air RB.
Also, the starting and win conditions heavily influence how the players want to play. Keep in mind it's a game so people want to actually have fun. This usually leads them to doing anything rather than nothing. Combine that with the fact that the maps may be large but the objectives are concentrated in the middle of it, and you have a furball meta. Don't even get me started on top tier jets.
Ultimately, the player does have all the agency. But nobody in the game takes off, turns 180 degrees, climbs to space then enters the middle of the map. Why? Because its boooring. As much as the players have the choice of what to do, they will choose the fun/engaging option 9 times out of 10 because of the carrot and stick nature of games: they play on our reward system to keep people engaged. So whilst people CAN spaceclimb off the side of the map, most people won't because like I said, it's a game and people want to have fun.
Imagine instead if you started at 5000 metres and the objective was to shoot down a bomber formation at 10000m. We both know that the players would swarm like locusts up there, or at least try to.
Then there's the fact that some planes just don't climb well. There are only a few players at high alt because only a few planes can get up there easily. Something like the P47 which performs well at alt but has a hard time getting there has to side climb. By the time you side climb up there, everyone else has gone down and there will still be some ki-44, yak 3 or 109 above you. Furthermore, given an enemy with a height advantage, most will dive down to escape it. This is what also causes the meta of low alt. If everyone was high up, the highest plane would still have an advantage, forcing everyone on the enemy team down so they don't die. Gravity causes this meta partly as well lol.
So basically A) there's nothing up there (player related) because B) it's boring for most to get up there (game design related) or because C) other planes get there faster (game design) which leads to D) diving to escape (player and game related) and E) ground pounding because what else is there to do (game design), or ground pounding to win by tickets whilst the enemy is up in space enjoying the view
Game design and games in general are an interaction between the structures in place and the players. It may not be 50/50 but in terms of the meta being defined its around that
@@nade5557 I know many games end by ticket bleed but on almost every map when it does it is because the players interacted with the ticket targets. If they didn't then ticket bleed would end in a tie and those don't happen often. Also if players didn't normal ticket bleed would end the match on it's own around the 25 minute mark or later on maps where bomber points respawn. Thus this entire issue of the game ending on ticket bleed is 99% of the time because of the players, not the game mode.
"Also, the starting and win conditions heavily influence how the players want to play."
Yes, no. There is an argument both ways here. Neither of which you touch on. Rather you make this very weak argument instead...
"Keep in mind it's a game so people want to actually have fun. This usually leads them to doing anything rather than nothing. Combine that with the fact that the maps may be large but the objectives are concentrated in the middle of it, and you have a furball meta."
This is 100% irrelevant to the point above, and, frankly, a fairly weak one. Yes, players want to have fun but if the tickets weren't tickets but just targets that were completely irrelevant to the game beyond just existing many players would still go after them regardless.
As for furball meta it is going to happen regardless. On plenty of maps the furball doesn't happen above the tickets. Players have conditioned themselves to fly roughly to the middle of the map because that is where you typically run into enemy players. The average player isn't interested in proper tactical air combat. They just want herp a derp ace combat esque vibes. Thus they do the brain dead thing of just fly right into the enemy looking for easy kills. This has absolutely nothing to do with the tickets, where they are or any other element of the game mode. It is simply the nature of the average derpy WT player. More proof that it is closer to 90% players fault of what the "meta" is.
"Ultimately, the player does have all the agency."
Then why are you trying to argue a weak @ss position to the contrary and shift the blame from the players to Gaijin?
"But nobody in the game takes off, turns 180 degrees, climbs to space then enters the middle of the map. Why? Because its boooring."
100% a you problem. Not a game mode problem. Likewise learning proper air combat is "boooring" to the average player too and you frequently see the average player throw rude comments at those that do. The average player doesn't give a $hit about playing smart, learning air combat or becoming a better player. All of those issues are the source to the problem we are discussing. This all has nothing to do with the tickets, the game mode or Gaijin in any way.
I get that climbing for 5+ minutes gets boring fairly quick. This is why I typically fill that time with information gathering like map conditions, possible composition of the opposing team, how I am going to deal with potential threats given the environment, et cetera. This is where disciplining your mind to focus on what needs to be done is a difference maker. The greater the lack of mental discipline the more a given player will struggle.
Or in situations where the teams are small and there isn't a lot of environmental conditions to take note of I just admire my aircraft/the scenery because WT can really be a beautiful game. This is something you can't do in AB jets because the time from takeoff to combat is usually under 2 mins. This is one major reason why I don't play jets. It can literally be just takeoff and jump straight into the action and I don't want that.
"Imagine instead if you started at 5000 metres and the objective was to shoot down a bomber formation at 10000m. We both know that the players would swarm like locusts up there, or at least try to."
No, they wouldn't. You think climbing from 100m to 5km in 5ish minutes is boooring? 5km to 10km is double that or more for most props in the game. Never mind that the higher in alt you go the slower the action gets. Meaning the longer it takes to run someone down, the longer it takes to climb up to a fight, everything takes double the time, if not more, to do something 8km+ than it does down at 2km. Combat 7km+ is a lot slower paced in props than at low alt and most of the player base doesn't have the patience, or discipline, to be patient in low altitude combat. Don't know what gives you the impression that that would change for high alt combat but it is arguably the least rational point you have presented thus far in this entire conversation.
"By the time you side climb up there, everyone else has gone down and there will still be some ki-44, yak 3 or 109 above you."
You want to see a Ki-44 or Yak-3, so long as it isn't a 3U or 3VK, above you in a P-47 at 6km+. That is a dumb player that doesn't know what they are doing. A Ki-44 or Yak-3 doesn't have the engine power to be a threat to a P-47 6km+ unless the P-47 is a bad player or just doesn't know how to fight at altitude. Above 6km the P-47 is faster and actually out climbs both of them. It also has significantly better energy retention 6km+. Abuse those advantages and those things will be very, very easy kills, even if you see them above you.
"Furthermore, given an enemy with a height advantage, most will dive down to escape it. This is what also causes the meta of low alt."
Most dive down because they are dumb, don't know what they are doing and don't have a plan. Entirely player fault, not game mode fault.
"If everyone was high up, the highest plane would still have an advantage, forcing everyone on the enemy team down so they don't die."
At high alt the highest plane does not have an advantage, or at least the advantage you think they might have. 7km+ what aircraft have the engine power to actually perform at those alts is way more important than who is higher. Also who is faster is way more important at those alts because energy retention is poor at those alts. Most aircraft are going to completely piss away all of their speed in less than 1 turn at those alts. The more speed you can carry the faster you can maneuver your aircraft around at those alts. Air combat 6km+ is very, very different to air combat 5km and below.
"So basically A) there's nothing up there (player related) because B) it's boring for most to get up there (game design related) or because C) other planes get there faster (game design) which leads to D) diving to escape (player and game related) and E) ground pounding because what else is there to do (game design), or ground pounding to win by tickets whilst the enemy is up in space enjoying the view "
A. Correct.
B. Completely incorrect. It being boring to climb is a player problem. Impatience or lack of mental discipline isn't a game mode problem when the limitation is the aircraft.
C. How is it game design of a 2010s game that the 109G out climbed the P-47D back in 1944? I'd love to see the logic behind this claim.
D. Half right and half wrong. Players diving away has nothing to do with game mode. There is absolutely nothing you can do in the game mode, outside of punishing the players by auto killing them, to do anything about this.
E. Tell that to Defyn or Pilot or virtually every one else that is a good fighter pilot. This isn't a game mode problem. It is a player decision making and mental discipline problem.
"Game design and games in general are an interaction between the structures in place and the players. It may not be 50/50 but in terms of the meta being defined its around that"
It isn't close. You yourself even admitted it above when you said this: "Ultimately, the player does have all the agency." You are trying to shoehorn excuses to shift the blame from the players, specifically their actions and decision making, to Gaijin.
7:54 I'M THE HIGHEST IN THE ROOM
A big problem is that the game forces you to take too much fuel
Gaijin is the master of giving vehicles of one country to another and making them better 😂
The 47N in the US tree is the same though
The last sentence is a perfect TL:DR
Yeah I play P47s quite often. More often than not it just ends up with me against at least half the enemy team.
I feel like Air RB props just always devolves into low alt fights nowadays
Very usefull video i was about to buy the F-47 but uh yeah it's worse than the normal P-47's
btw defyn can you review the Mirage 5BA next ?
I’d say the P-47 in general is a lot like the archetypical giant guy with the axe from basically any fantasy franchise.
Amazing as in the real world it was one of the fastest prop fighters of wwII and the r2800 was one of the most powerful engines, plus the paddle prop improved climb over early p47’s
Have you ever done a video on the XP-55 I absolutely love that plane..its a killer please do a video on it. it is amazing, I am so glad they upped it from rank 2 to rank 3 and you can easily take into 6.3 matches and slay in it, i don't think any prop in the game has the energy retention this plane has, and it is not uncommon to pull over 12Gs in it it is one of the few planed that can black me out with it sustained high g turning ability, yes it has shit rudders but is is a weird plane and in ground RB it is a menace easily strafing out tanks with all that firepower in the nose.
If DEFYN is ever struggling with an aircraft, that's a good sign the devs should fix said aircraft.
Perhaps not. Gaijin will ruin more aircraft by raising their br or just weaken their performance:(
Not every aicraft were good IRL either.
Weight reduction and dyno tune for a WW2 prop plane before GTA6 is insane🤯
The chinese tree could have used this as a researchable vehicle ngl
I was bummed when i saw it was a premium
Griddy when!?
You have 9000 favorite props in the game .
Hornet , pm1 , k4 , f4u4b , pm1 , etc
As a p47N connoisseur a slight buff is really nice. I love using it, people dunno what it’s really capable until it’s way above someone. And people get confused why I don’t take certain dogfights. It’s because I know I’m not a 47d 28 nor the razor back. I just want skins for the 47N. Because I’m on console💀 also I can’t lock people anymore behind me in air rb. I’m forced to play counter cas in ground rb.
If you turn the mixture up to 85-90%, you get horsepower boost
The 300okg bomb that's forcing you to play
I really like the look of the Corsair planes, are they any good / which one is the best? I havent played US planes yet
The f4u-b is the absolute best corsair imo
It should have an airspawn.
While it may not be brilliant now, I've definitely noticed the increase in flight performance and it's much less punishing to fly now. Frankly, given my experience with the D-28, the N-15 flies incredibly similar until it comes to performance in high speed turns, you can absolutely whip that thing around as long as you don't get too slow. May not be the best P-47 still, but in my opinion it's definitely not the worst one now.
Great video as always, BUT when the video on the G91 Y ?
🥺
👉👈
Truly one of the most Dutch people of all time
Man if fuel sliders exist, welp, there goes all P47M sales
They kinda killed air rb when they made a physics model where every turnfighter ufo can prophang till the end of time and energy fighters can’t do anything anymore
how can i get the wingtip decal
funny ive been flying this out lately
would probably help if your min fuel wasn't almost an hour for a max 25 minute game... the Griffon spitfires are the only props where WEP increases fuel consumption noticeably and even they rarely need even 20mins of fuel
great content as always. can you please explain how the WEP works in Air RB. i noticed that if i use it a lot in the BF109 at the begining of the match, later the engine will overheat almost instantly and at lower temperatures.
I find using the radio menu is more helpful for cluing your teammates into a good target.
The only game mode that the thunderbolts are viable is endurance confrontation, thats because it the old school model that air RB use to be but its sim only and sice its sim gaijin pretty much left it untouch
Shhhhhhut up, don't let them know........the snail forgot about its existence, just let it live it's best life
Defyn you defynytely make me wanna play the worst planes out there. Great content! Cheers
This plane really reminds me of the spitfire FR47
You’ve got to be kidding me 😮
There was a time the P-47M was great, it was many moons ago.
I got 5 kills with P-47 D 22, that was my only good game with it and my only good game of my entire grind in American tech tree lmao.
When the D28 was 4.7 the good old days
its not Niko, its November
It's clear is it not? We aren't in the army
Heeeyyyy... i know you just played one, but could you play the italian p47? Its got funny little airbrakes you can catch ppl offguard with. Thx mate!
Glad to find out that my lack of success in this vehicle isn't entirely due to me being bad, but the airframe just being kinda mid
Just give more planes that have to climb for years and air spawn and then boom it’s fair. Maybe even just a a bit lower then a usual airspawn
The US aircraft were great IRL but you don’t have hundreds of miles to climb and gain speed
@Defyn... Please can we get a Derby video. The Barak 2 is not the best F16 and i was hoping Derby's can help it...
What setup do you play? Mouse and keyboard? Controller? Joystick?
F-47N is my new favorite plane in the game.
what about playing with the vautour IIN late with the 4 radar missiles at 8,3?, that should be funny
It’s not the plane it’s the pilot
Makes me wonder if further changes to BRs done by separating GRB BRs from ARB will make the P47N and M a little bit more enjoyable. I'm not holding my breath, though.
M is already at a good BR for it performance wise. Going lower in BR is inadvisable. The issue is that the matches are so short that you are forced to rush when the plane when flown properly tactically is about patience. The N is just flat out over BRed. The N is worse than the 4.3 P-47D.
Still waiting for the IL-28 video, 2 VK-1’s btw
It should've been reclassified as Interceptor and given air spawn with BR upped to 5.0.
I am a certified P-47 enjoyer.
This is the main battle pass warbond shoot reward right now I’m trying to get it
I don't get headons in this game. I swear if I tried that headon with the Spitfire, I would die about 80% of the time and if I was lucky I would land one hit.
Lol the d28 not having clip wings already makes this plane goofy
P47 should have an air spawn.
That Yak-3 is the most typical WT teammate. I've died so many times or just wasted half a match simply because a teammate could not give a single damn, while I was presenting him an easy kill.
Also C.205 Serie 3 and N2 are both absolutely horrible. They've got a decent roll and high speed maenuvrability, but nowhere near good enough to really matter, other than in BnZ. But if they are not above the enemy, they can and will get absolutely slaughtered by same-tier Bf 109, which has vastly better performance and probably turns better too. And don't forget they're also facing Yak-3
G.55 S0 compared to C.205 S3/N2 is an absolute gem.
C.205 Serie 1 is kinda OK, but it's hilarious to have these anemic guns vs P-47 N ( I guess dude ended up in full uptier).
The 205 Serie 3 isn't horrible. It is slightly over BRed. It should be 4.0, maybe 4.3, but is 4,7. The N2 is horrible. It is, at best, a 3.7 plane that sits at 4.7. Yes, the 109s turn better. The turn rate of the 205 serie 3 is slightly better than a 190A5. The N2 is worse than any 190A that is clean a la no external stores being carried. The 205 Serie 1 in comparison is just shy of the 109F4/G2 realm of maneuverability. The added weight of the serie 3 and N2 really take a toll on the maneuverability of the 205. The Serie 1 is in a perfect spot for it performance wise. It's guns are bad but it is very competitive performance wise at that BR. This is what should happen with aircraft with bad guns.
Funnily enough I almost hate the G.55s. They feel like gimped 109s that traded everything good about them for some turn rate.
Also the P-47Ns should be 4.3. It flat out is not competitive at 4.7 performance wise. The P-47D-25 is arguably an equal performing aircraft overall and sits at 4.3. The N has, maybe, slightly better climb and is faster in level flight by some 30kmh but the D-25 is more agile.
Finly prop plane
10:48 How do you lose a dogfight vs a whale while flying a Spitfire F MK IX
The spitfire didn't keep turning so he gave defyn a lot of advantage by going straight
@@Soldo66666 That was a rhetorical question.
@@WigglyWings yeah i know, i was just pointing out how much brain dead someone has to be to lose a dogfight to a p47 in a spitfire
@@Soldo66666 I am sure someone out there after watching that dogfight will think that a P47 can dogfight Spitfire easily. xD
Could you play the F-15J(M) to showcase the AAM-4s? I feel like they are super lacking but would really appreciate your thoughts on it.
Unless you are brutally tired of top tier of course