Can You Know Someone is a False Convert? (Answering this and other email questions)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- In the video, Pastor Keith goes to the mailbag to answer some viewer questions:
1. Can we know someone is a false convert?
2. Can a church receive someone who is under discipline?
3. Is King James Onlyism heresy?
4. When is it right to leave my church?
Please remember you can support the channel in several different ways, including being a member of the SUPERIOR THEOLOGY CLUB here on TH-cam. Check it out in our membership section.
If you want to send emails, do so by going to KeithFoskey.com
I was 13 when my mom and stepdad were told to leave a church. However, the elders told my current church that I was asking too many questions. That a teenage girl shouldn't ask theological questions and that I am supposed to be silent. My new church said let her question let her learn because my mom didn't do the job and my dad wasn't in the home. My step dad was not a man of God and had also left my mother.
You are correct to ask theological questions. That’s part of growing in sanctification. I think when a parent or church says “do it because the Bible says so” that’s insufficient and opens you up to doubting that scripture can answer the important questions in life and you go to unreliable sources instead. I recommend exploring good ministries like Ligonier, they have an “Ask Ligonier” link on their site as well as emailing Keith here or Grace to You, Dr. John MacArthur’s ministry. I’ve done that and they have all helped me. 🙏
I've been a dean at a Christian college for more than 20 years, and have been charged by the trustees to only hire believers as much as it is humanly possible. Over that time, I've never found a better single question than James Boice's second EE question: "If you died today and stood before a Holy God and he asked you, 'Why should I let you into my heaven?', what would you tell him?"
This question almost always quickly reveals who understands the gospel.
Best answer, "Your Son told me that I can come in."
Yes but you have to realize that some people explain things differently on how Christ works in through their life, one thing I know for sure is that fakes love to hide behind "perfect orthodoxy". Wolves can be very articulate people while your local Christian with anxiety or ADHD may struggle to answer that well.
@sillyrabbit I believe Dr D James Kennedy developed Evangelism Explosion and that question. I remember RC Sproul became a good friend of Dr Kennedy and said he used EE as a new Christian to witness to people. I have to tell you I love Dr Boice’s ministry and the podcast The Bible Study Hour. He was a great and faithful man as well. Peace🙏
My answer is, "I don't deserve to, but your Son has paid for my entry."
23:00 Totally agree, with one caveat. In my close to 40 years of church leadership with 15 of that in pastoral roles, I can only think of one time that the reason someone gave for leaving a church was the actual reason.
As Keith says, no matter how hard it may be to talk with your pastor(s) about leaving, as a professing Christ follower you owe it to them to be honest and truthful, no matter the repercussions or consequences.
Brightness in and out reminds me of the 90s when, as an unrepentant sinner, I used to illegally dub VHS with my two-VCR setup. In the late 90s the studios came up with some kind of copy protection that caused the lightening/darkening effect.
That’s funny, I remember that too. I think this one was from the auto white balance readjusting to my white shirt.
I noticed it as well, looks as if a surge protector or computer tower has an led cycling
As someone who felt the need to leave one church and join another, I can also say that when you talk to the leadership and they bless you to pursue Christ in a new context it is a huge blessing and absolutely beautiful.
Can I be the first to say your new studio is awesome 👏 ❤
Great new studio!
Yes ... much better ! Great video !
17:14 now Keith I just got done reading “against heresies“ and even Ireneus says that you can only be saved hearing the gospel from the King James version. So you might wanna check that.
I like what you said at the end about changing churches. My family did during covid and ended up at a sister church to the one we went to. Me and my former pastor still get together atleast once a year. Also he was my best man at my wedding!
I asked ChatGPT about King James onlyism, and it is apparently an English language only kind of thing, other languages do not have an equivalent to King James onlyism.
This is the response it gave me.
The "King James Only" movement is quite specific to English-speaking Christianity, where some groups believe that the King James Version (KJV) is the most accurate or divinely inspired translation of the Bible. However, similar attitudes towards specific Bible translations exist in other languages and cultures:
1. **Greek:** While there's no widespread "Septuagint Only" movement, the Septuagint (LXX) holds a special place in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. The Greek Orthodox Church often regards the Septuagint as authoritative, particularly for the Old Testament, but this is more about tradition and historical use rather than an exclusive stance similar to the KJV-only movement.
2. **Russian:** The Synodal Bible (Synodalny Perevod) is the most commonly used translation among Russian-speaking Christians, particularly within the Russian Orthodox Church. Some conservative groups may prefer it exclusively, but there isn't a broad movement equivalent to the KJV-only ideology.
3. **Spanish:** The Reina-Valera translation, particularly the 1960 version, is highly regarded among Spanish-speaking Protestants. Some groups prefer it over other translations, but again, there isn't a widespread "Reina-Valera Only" movement equivalent to the KJV-only stance.
4. **German:** The Luther Bible, especially the 1912 version, holds a significant place in German-speaking Protestantism. Similar to other translations, there are preferences, but not a dominant "Luther Bible Only" movement.
In summary, while there are preferences for certain translations within various language groups, the "King James Only" phenomenon is quite unique in its intensity and exclusivity within English-speaking Christianity.
If you're interested, Mark Ward did some interviews recently with people from (I think) Korea and the Netherlands where there are similar movements.
There actually is a Luther-Bible-Only movement in Germany, but they are using the 1545 Edition, not the 1912 revision. It’s influenced a lot by Peter Ruckman, but it seems that to some extent it also has roots from the time before Ruckman. It’s pretty small (Not more than 10 churches in 🇩🇪🇨🇭🇦🇹) . Most of them are Bible-Baptists.
I went to a church where some of the membership were KJV-only. I always thought it was silly to be venerate a translation. Sure, there are some bad translations, but Jesus didn't speak 17th Century English. We shouldn't venerate a translation because certain things just don't translate well between languages.
@@VTdarkangel I've never gotten the mindset of the KJVO crowd, but then once I started serious bible study, I came across James White and heard his arguments against KJVO, so I was ready to think through the issue when I encountered it.
@@thecagestagecrusader Having known some of them, I can say it is usually the result of closed-minded traditionalism taken to an extreme. Many of them have only known the KJV, but don't know the history of the Bible or why we have the KJV. They simply know it only as the Bible. At least that's what KJV-only people I knew were like. My views on how silly it was became even stronger when I started learning about the Bible's history, its translations, and how languages are translated.
New studio is dope!!
Thank you!
An excellent place to learn about the KJV onlyists and that other versions are reliable is Mark Ward’s channel. Such a kind, gracious, well spoken and patient man. Thanks Keith, I love these Q & A videos.👍👍
These Q&A's are great. Please do more. Good answers.
Really enjoying these mailbag episodes!
love the new studio and the poster. Uncle Rich! Medford the Theologian. Those are awesome! Are you selling the Enjoy Calvinism cups?
Saturday night is a Sunday morning decision…thanks I like that
Textus Receptus Preferred (KJV priority) checking in. If someone says there's only one bible for someone to get saved from, point out that there were other bibles prior to KJV... so that would mean Christendom was doomed until KJV. Lol
Just read your Bible and let Holy Spirit teach you as you also submit to your local church authority.
When someone applies for membership at your church because they claim they were unfairly disciplined at their prior church, the first thing they should be asked is if they made an appeal as per BCO 42-3. They should have been made aware of the right to appeal when the discipline was finalized. Saying you were treated unfairly but did not appeal to the higher court is actually the first issue that needs to be clarified.
Q: This is fascinating to me. Though my life I've seen some of my church leaders resign or be fired in disgrace for their crimes. Some of those crimes were real and present, some were historic, and some were false accusations, and one managed to flee to a remote desert nation to escape justice (I'm talking of crimes against children).
Having said that, I don't think I've ever encountered the idea of church discipline applied to a layman in the pews or carrying across to membership in a different denomination. What does that look like in a southern American church?
I discuss church discipline in my book “a biblically functioning church” which is available for free at sgfcjax.org/books
@@ConversationswithaCalvinist Thank you, kind sir. I have now read chapter 8 "How does It Handle Discipline?" and it both answers my question and I fully agree with your biblical reasoning. I'm sure I'll read the rest quite soon.
@@FozzyBBear Awesome, I am glad it was helpful. Praise the Lord!
If I might offer up an example: at our current church, one of our elders, who was the worship pastor, had an affair with the wife of another member. Neither of them denied the charges, but both of them refused to repent. After seven months of continued pursuit by the church in efforts to bring them back, both were formally removed from church membership by a vote of the congregation (including their respective spouses). The spouses of the two offenders still faithfully attend the church, and we continue to pray that their marriages might be reconciled.
Keith thank you so much for this video. I recently left an Assemblies of God church that I have been going to for the e last 9 years, and before that I was regenerated at one of their youth retreats in 2014.
Not Calvanist, but I thought the answers to the questions were spot on.
first! I love your cup.
Even if it runneth not over during this episode?
Yes, no, no, maybe, yes. And absolutely …
That was quick 😂
Wait, you gave 6 answers to 4 questions lol. 😆 I’m confused!
@@ConversationswithaCalvinist I guess a few extra answers to be safe. 😆
like your pepper tie
doth thou wear bolo ties? one person at school asked me what i was wearing i was to surprised to answer
Yay! I got a shoutout!
Love the response to the first question, well all of them. The first is just very applicable to me right now.
I recently got a close family member to agree to read 1 John daily for a month, along with myself, part of the reason for this was I’ve tried to talk to this professing believer about sin in their life (under the assumption they are indeed saved) to no avail.
At the end of the month I’ll pose the question, as lovingly as I can…. what do YOU think John the apostle would call a professing believer that swears, recently started smoking, drinks to drunkenness, is having relations with multiple women, living with one not his wife, rarely attends church, and doesn’t donate to or contribute (aka love) to the brethren/church?
I personally would call that person at best a hypocrite, but most likely just a false convert… I believe John the apostle would say that person is a liar and the truth is not in them. In any case, this person is in an extremely dangerous position.
I absolutely hate these situations, it’s easy to think maybe I’m just being judgmental and therefore do nothing. But it’s harder to be in great fear for someone you love, and do nothing.
I walked into the rec-room of a local church. I saw a large number of NIV bibles on the bookshelves and a gay pride flag on the wall. I thought to myself: “of course!” and I turned around and walked out.
I have known plenty who used the kjv
@mikecook7334 I would have been less concerned about the NIV bibles more concerned about how much dust is on them and the pride flag. My reading of the NIV so far isn't as nearly as bad as some have made it out to be. I don't care for the translation much, but that is a matter of style. I've known good Christians with NIVs, and bad ones with more "reputable" translations. It really comes down to if they are taking the Word seriously, and the pride flag says they aren't.
I've been attending a KJV only-ish church for about a year now and I've reached the end of my rope. I will contact the pastor and kindly inform him that I will be moving on. Looks like the only other option left really is a church which is an hour away to drive to.
Debate Flowers. Blessings from Finland.
In my experience, there are (at least) two flavors of KJVOism. One is annoying and uses bad arguments; the other is cultish. The former are believers in every sense and just like all of us, have some blind spots. The latter have placed their faith in something outside of Christ and are in serious danger of eternal wrath. (If nuanced, there can be more than two, but the ruckmanites and riplingerites still fall into the bottom tier.)
If you are trusting in your adoption of a certain translation as your ticket to heaven, give Keith a call...y'all need to talk.
Great video. God bless you and your ministry.
I once attended an IFB church which held to the KJV as revelation replacing the original languages, and yes, you were not saved if you didn’t believe the KJV. For them translation to any other languages had to come only from the KJV. It caused me to shut down in readings from the KJV that refer to things like the purity of God’s Word, knowing that their definition of God’s Word was KJVO. Many visitors to our church were of the same belief, giving thanks that they had been saved by finally finding their way to the “real” Word of God.
Indeed, and I would say that teaching definitely borders on heretical. Thankfully that is not always the case.
@@ConversationswithaCalvinist The Pastor and most of his friends who visited were graduates or otherwise associated with Pensacola Christian College. I don’t believe that these are necessarily things taught by PCC. But right next door to their campus was the ministry of Peter Ruckman, who was a very adamant proponent. So the students frequently personally attended his seminars.
23:43 Maybe not owed an answer as a pastor, but what about as a fellow congregant, or possibly as a fellow human?
There is a distinct difference between King James Preferred (TM) and King James Only (TM)
there is too much catholic on the youtube however you , the inquisition song, and john mcarthur are helpful
John MacArthur is a heretic. He believes the Nestorian heresy
Where can i get that cup?
It was a gift to me from a church member. I’m trying to get it remade to put in our store
You are funny. I disagree with you on Calvinism and I am not an Arminian either. It looks like you rely on church fathers and traditions for most of your views. If I am wrong on this, please correct me. Anyway, as a pastor, I 100 percent agree that telling your pastor why you are leaving the church is best.
A THREE MINUTE INTRO???
It was an impromptu video, more relaxed 😎
Hopefully you still found the answers helpful
Some KJV-only folks believe that we don't need the Greek and Hebrew text since King James is the inspired text. Some IBF KJV-only churches are also Calvinist.
I find it quite unbelievable that ANY IFB church could be Calvinist 🤔 🤷🏻♂️
@@toolegittoquit_001Yes! I agree! It was through personal Biblical study that I found myself more and more agreeing with Reformed theology, and left an IFB church for a Presbyterian church which is more Calvinistic.
@toolegittoquit_001 They wouldn't be a 5 point Calvinist, a 1 or 3 point Calvinist.
@@chrisbranton65 no there are some that are five pointers
If drinking and smoking are so important to you that you want to leave a church that takes a strong stand against that, you are in the wrong.
It depends. It sounds like you are assuming that the person is leaving because they want to drink and smoke and that's more important to them than staying. I doubt this is the case, remember they gave several doctrinal reasons besides that. I know of a church that eventually ended up losing around half of it's attendees because they were so dogmatic on the issue of alcohol. I'm sure that many of them were willing to agree to disagree but the church had it written into it's constitution that you had to abstain from alcohol to be a member. People did not want to bind their consciences to something that is not even biblical which resulted in a congregation where the vast majority of the attendees weren't members. The church would not remove this rule despite the vast majority opposing it and people eventually just started to leave, it's not like they were alcoholics or anything, I think the real problem was the strict legalism in general and this issue just happened to be the straw that broke the camel's back.