Or even an economic system that provides ideal conditions for raising families. When the answer to economic crunch is to "move where the jobs are," that answer disrupts the kind of stable community that makes having kids possible. Kids deserve to have more than their parents as stable figures in their lives; childcare workers that turnover in their jobs aren't good substitutes for nearby relatives, long-term neighbors, and family friends.
@@daniella8400 I was thinking the same thing. About your response to another about the person not being a mom it’s worse bc we’re dealing with someone who uses feminist as an excuse. The thing is it’s more than that I’m a widow now and let me tell you when we had our child the cost of milk was crazy…… yes I tried to breastfeed and I couldn’t produce enough. I realize one day when my child was still on my breast for 2 hours and still hungry. I realize I had to work also bc I needed to support my husband. So some people who don’t have to make these decisions you can tell they will make comments 10 years ago infants milk we paid about $20 per and daycare was $600. 2 years ago after school daycare I spent $1,000 a month. You may ask why bc I had a negative experience with my child earlier daycare and this was after I became a widow. I learned not to judge people bc some people don’t like to tell their business. Everyone has to decide for themselves what works. I only have 1 child bc of life and it’s hard. Bc I know a female with 2 kids and going through a divorce I remember thinking you and your husband need to work it out depending on why…… so if it’s that man decision what can a female do????? Nothing so when I hear people say feminism it’s easier to say that but NOT look at the reality and these people are why we have issues bc it’s easy to blame a woman for everything bc some people don’t know how to be accountable and honest. There are many issues for this and unfortunately SOME people prefer to blame females for this but not look at the over all society (which is led by men, not women) no matter how we try to all be equal.
If Millennials and Gen Z aren’t having kids b/c we’re “selfish and immature”, then we’re still doing better than those before us. Being selfish and immature never stopped _them._ 😒😒😒
Exactly. It took some time, but America figured out by the 90s generally that you couldn't just have kids and "figure it out" the way a lot of Boomers and Silents and Greatests did. Gen X was often very intentional about having kids and raising families because they were not going to replicate the neglect they faced from their parents and society as infrastructure and institutions decayed in the 70s and 80s, but they had the added benefit of being in the prime of life during the Dotcom Boom of the second half of the 90s and were somewhat able to replace themselves with the youngest Millennials and Gen Z. But as the economic conditions for young people worsened over the 00s and things got increasingly crazy politically and socially people born after like 1975 have often chosen to forego it so as not to inflict injury on a child nor themselves. It really is quite simple.
What women have had for a few decades now, is birth control. Likely there'd be a whole lot less on the planet, if previously available. Furthermore, Rs have said for decades now, "Don't have kids if you can't afford them.", and taunt widows, those with "deadbeat dads", etc. with "Welfare Queen", etc. Add in severe economic turbulence, and is it any wonder so many forgoing children?
@@gf4670 Tail end of Boomers were teenagers who saw the first bust, early 1970s, when sole income households were blown out of the water. By early 1990s, 6 of 8 of us coworkers were decidely No Kids. It's just taken a while for the media to notice the trend.
@@buzoff4642 There's definitely pressure from family members and society on the whole. The "so, when are you having kids" or "when are you gonna pop out another one" after you've had a child is omnipresent for many women
It almost feels like pressure now because the political narrative is that we OWE society some children. And it's those awful liberals that are too selfish to breed enough to give our economy some workers. Meanwhile doing nothing to make it easier to do this very hard job.
My top reasons (in order) for not having children: 1) school shootings - what a tragic and avoidable reason to have to bury your child. 2) workers’ protections - until I have some guarantee that I’m not just meeting some body-count quota for the corporate elites and that my children can become successful and live a comfortable life after they survive and graduate high school, I’m not giving birth to a single child. 3) I can barely afford myself- I’m supposed to have a house by now, be part of a community, and have some plan and savings for retirement. I went to college and am still paying off my debt for that. I have a career in the financial sector that pays competitively, but I still can’t buy a house. If I had children, I’d also have to find a way to feed them, clothe them, give them the little extras that make them equal to their peers, and send them to college. There’s no friggen way I can afford that even with both mine and my partner’s salaries. 4) having a daughter in this America would be terrifying- would her rights be as protected as a son’s rights? I doubt it and that terrifies me. 5) my safety- being pregnant is dangerous these days because life saving medical care sometimes includes medication that is used in abortion. I don’t want to die giving birth to a child that won’t be protected at their schools, by my government, or by the society that values a fetus over a child that is already walking through school hallways and the mother who brought them there. I’m not selfish. I’m just so sure that having children would be a bad idea for the children. I feel like this is all very obvious and to act like we’re confused why people aren’t having kids is gaslighting at its best.
Damn right, you're not selfish.....you are the OPPOSITE of selfish when you're considering the quality of life of your potential children. You have "long view". And it's ridiculous you even have to explain yourself in the first place. #ProChoice
Agreed if I still have to lock my door at night then that's why I shouldn't have to people especially men should act right and not wander around all night trying to kidnap us. Why is the hardest solution for them to just not endanger us? They dont want all these problems but they keep causing them.
I'm a childless Gen Xer. I always thought I'd have kids, but I never found anyone suitable to have them with, so it just didn't happen. Sometimes things happen by default rather than by active choice. I get tired of this reality check being left out of discussions like these.
They addressed it here and along with everything else...they say its an "unrealistic" standard that is "too high". They are wrong. People shouldn't be made to feel like their standards of care for a child is too high when we know that most of societies problems are based off of the fact that people come from broken, dysfunctional homes, relationships and poverty. What's wrong with people not wanting inferior circumstances for their kids?
Agreed I think they need to speak to Gen X as well when having this conversation. There are myriad reasons why, but not having found someone to have children with is important too!
Right. Sometimes it's just not in the cards...for any number of reasons. I look at the idea of having children as a luxury item. Just like if my neighbor wants a Mercedes, fine... just be sure you can afford it & take care of it.
After WWII my Catholic unstable mother had two children that she didn't want and hardly took care of because the church told her that birth control was a mortal sin. When I was 9 she had another baby and gave it to me to raise. Then when I was 11 she had yet another baby and pushed me to raise that baby too. And then she had a nervous breakdown so that by 12 I was taking care of a 3-year old, a 1-year old and HER. My mother was so unstable that had she had the choice NOT to have children she may not have dropped off the deep end. She was violent and I'd come home to find that she'd broken everything in the living room. All four of my mother's children never had children of their own -- and never having had a childhood of my own till I left home at 20 I have never regretted that decision.
"After COVID, my atheist and narcissistic mom..." Updated societal challenges will lead to the same story unless parenting becomes a supplement to all career tracks. Parenting skills and supports must become intentional achievements.
@@cg2642 Thank you for your well wishes. Unlike my 3 brothers, I got a LOT of help from 20 years old and on -- 3 years of traditional therapy (at a price I could afford), 5 months in a yoga camp at 43 when going through a divorce, a personal coach for 10 years (who only charged me for the first 3) and an ultra-liberal church in Manhattan that I attended for 32 years (that let me join at 31 as a professed agnostic.) I got LOTS of help because not only did I believe that a better life was possible but I believed that for all the labor I had contributed to my parents' family that I deserved a good life -- and I continue to enjoy a good and interesting life. Thank you again for your kindness.
@@jbundles6257Saaaaammee! And when I was 16, I realized that I wasn’t mother material and therefore I made the decision to be childfree. I’m not passing down my bullshit to them.
And this is why I cannot understand why conservatives cannot understand the benefits of universal health care. If everyone is insured by the same program, paid through taxes, and no longer has to pay private insurance a large percentage more than its actual cost, they would all be paying a lot less. There can still be private top-up insurance for those who want more bells and whistles.
Having observed family use of healthcare, yes, I can see how it's shot up through decades. One of my coworkers alone cost of fortune, bringing toddlers to the emergency room, every time they threw up from Dad's cooking experiments.
And this is why I cannot understand why conservatives cannot understand the benefits of universal health care. If everyone is insured by the same program, paid through taxes, and no longer has to pay private insurance a large percentage more than its actual cost, they would all be paying a lot less. There can still be private top-up insurance for those who want more bells and whistles.
There is nothing wrong with not wanting children, based on my experience, I encourage my grandchildren to enjoy their independence, their self fulfillment before ever thinking about being tied down by a child, they may or may not want. I raised my children but I didn’t find fulfillment in it, only responsibilities, two steps away from abject poverty, the eternal fear that you will fail them, we end up homeless, and worse I was afraid to ruin their lives as my mother said, I had ruined mine. Being a parent isn’t a bowl of cherries, you got to have a lot of self control to get them pass the age of five and if you don’t have the resources you run the risk of ruining your children’s lives. I don’t blame them for not wanting children, they’ve seen us as parents.
Well said. I feel the same way. I had three children very young and struggled to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table the whole time. Many people don't understand how torturous it can be to live in relentless fear of failing to give your beloved children what they need. I told my daughters that they should have children only if that really, really actively WANT them. Two have had one kid each, at age 29 and age 39.
@@lauraramnarace1649, yes, my kids waited till they were 27 and 34, before bringing children into this world, they are in stable relationships. But yes, it was torture, knowing that if you fail them, they wouldn’t have a home, they wouldn’t stand a chance at normal, whatever normal was, I was still trying to figure it out because I didn’t know myself what normal was. Today, they lead happy hardworking lives, they got teenagers to survive, and I breathe a sign of relief, I guided them to a place, I had never been but I knew it could exist. Hugs to you, we made it out of hell.
Not everyone is cut out to be a parent. Having children should not be encouraged. Society and the economy must be re-designed to accommodate fewer children.
@@imperialmotoring3789 So, bus your own tables, have to make your own beds when in a hotel, then? OK Boomer. Oh, and wipe your own butts in a few years when you are too gaga to do it.
it's not that i don't like children, it's that i've seen all my childhood women's lives being sent spiraling into abject poverty, desperation and inescapable depression and anxiety, from ending up having to raise the child alone, due to their spouses dying, either from accidents, or due to heart problems once they pass 40 (some of these men were also abusive.. at the time women weren't referred to as people, in my country, that's how deeply ingrained misogyny was, and abusive behavior from men was seen as normal). I grew up partaking in that joyless environment and it made me focus my life around avoiding having to ever go through that type of life again. Sometimes I remember my childhood poverty and cry, for simple things, like being able to afford food. I also personally live in a way less predictable times than my mother, so for me, it could go even worse. I've studied for years and years and worked very hard to build a good career for myself and to get myself out of the gutter, and i'm not going back, especially not for a kid who could very well happen to have a neurologically dictated psychological problem, like psychopathy, which absolutely can happen. A child is a Russian roulette, and your previous life experiences dictate how you view the risks and the benefits
Same here my childhood traumas make me hesitate to have kids and didn’t start getting therapy until my thirties when I began to observe self sabotage behavior and not understanding at the time where it’s coming from. I would never forgive myself if I brought in a child and haven’t worked out my issues I’ll just be passing generational trauma to my kid.
@@MichaelJohnson-vi6ehthese days even renting your own apartment is impossible. Most millennials I know, even couples, still have roommates and couldn't afford their rent without it. Where are they supposed to fit a child?
@@tomasrocha6139I don't think it's that simple. Last I heard the number was around 50% and the amount of owners who are "house poor" and regret it might be pretty significant.
I agree. My dad the other day told me that he was able to buy his first house at 25 years old. I was like, "I am glad you were able to hit that milestone" . I would have told him that most people at 25 cannot afford their first house, let alone afford rent without roommates. Not to mention, back then he along with many others could afford a house. Don't even get me started with jobs and their unlivable wages that they pay. Unfortunately, my parents are living in denial, thinking that we will hit our milestones at the same ages they did. Under these circumstances, Most of Gen Z won't be able to hit said milestones until much later.
Over 80% of US households are in precarity. Those of us who grew up poor or working class have learned that our lives are governed more by crisis management than by opportunity, and it would be wrongdoing to ourselves and any children to have them in such conditions. Furthermore, our society _hates_ kids, refusing to provide the unconditional care they need, instead regarding schools more as containment than a place to prepare for adulthood, and regarding children as delinquent undesirables unless their parents are important (ownership class). In the shadow of the climate crisis, the lives of zoomers and alphas will be _defined_ by resources running out and the world only being able to sustain (at most optimistic estimations) a billion people. One out of eight of us. It is, in these circumstances, immoral to add new persons to the mix, no matter what the local regime or the local state thinks.
Being a broke teenage parent was never for the faint of heart, I don’t recommend it. There are lives at risk, that you may not notice, because you feel unfulfilled, trapped with your wings cut off, is hard to deal with sudden responsibilities and the new realities, that you are no longer the most important need you have. There are a lot of mothers in crisis situations competing with their children for attention; so many ignored children because of exhausted parents or internal battles of the parents, and then we live in this country that won’t mind sacrificing children while denying their basic needs.
"our society hates kids" Well, I wouldn't put it that way. It appears the economy is now configured for Investor Security (deregulation of market safety and integrity, employment instabilty, tax funded bailouts, etc.). Top priority, the billion dollar babies, at the expense of everyone else. Ironic, the Republicans' "anti-abortion" agenda, given their decades of "If you can't afford kids, don't have them."
I agree with what you said but the school system is a huge reason why I won't be having any kids into my old age of 41. I'm an Indian guy who was born and raised in the US but whose parents are from India. I grew up regular middle class, but I hated going to school since I was always a target simply because I was the only Indian kid most of the time, so I got into a ton of fist fights with bullies. Keep in mind physically I'm only 5'11 and I'm slim so growing up I was always a target due to my physical stature. I won some fights and lost some but the whole entire experience was tiring, and it always felt like I was in a prison in the sense of having to watch my back and be on guard for the next potential fight. Teachers and administrators didn't do anything they were basically like prison wardens and would turn a blind eye to the bullies. I compare my childhood to my parent's childhood which was a much happier existence despite being poor my parents had a fun childhood. They grew up in a village on a farm in which they had a sense of community. Also, when they were in school, they never had to fear for their safety despite being in a third world country. This really shows to me how fucked up America's school system is when you are much safer going to school in a third world country vs a first world country. I would never want to have my kids go through this crappy prison like school system. Plus, I wouldn't tolerate other kids putting their hands on my kids. I'm not willing to go through endless fights with the school system which is one of the reasons I never had any desire to have kids. My traumatic experiences growing up in the American school system is not the only reason why I didn't ever want to have kids but it's one of several.
Great quote, by Larry Ellison to Steve Jobs, "The moral high ground is the most expensive real estate on the planet." I remember political and industry integrity. It's pretty sparse these days.
From a Gen X'er who never had or wanted children. Your views on not having children need to change rather than our views. You ask "What is the solution?" As if we need one. I have had 2 parents confess to me they regret having children. It's a huge commitment with very little upside. Plus the world is way overpopulated. The powers that run the world want us to breed because they view children as new customers. As a global community we need to cut our population. That aside. At my ripe old age my wife and I view not having kids the best decision we ever made.
Yep. First date question was always, “Do you want kids?” If he said yes there was no second date. I was made to feel weird by my family and contemporaries; it wasn’t until I was in college that I encountered others not interested in children. All the reasons you stated, plus a recognition of our inadequacies as potential parents and not wanting to continue the generational trauma.
I concur with every point you made and I have a story similar to yours. I was at a social event and this woman, after telling her we don't have children, replied, "Though I respect it was your decision to make, it was a selfish decision, nonetheless." This woman knows NOTHING about me or my life history----I see her often at social events, but I make a point of avoiding her. #ChildlessByCHOICE
What is wrong with you? Don't care if you want children, but I do care about your speaking about why people have children. You are a hypocrit. Don't talk for people who have children. By the way don't say there is no upside. Don't talk about what you don't know.
I'm 70. As a teenager I concluded that we are creating worse world for future generations and that the most moral thing I could do is not have any kids of my own. I stuck to that and have had no regrets.
I’m glad for ya! I just hope I don’t get pressured by anyone to have kids. *(*Including my mom since apparently my mom said *“do what’s best for you.”* But at the same time she’s like: *“You never know.”* Which scares me.*)*
How is it selfish to not have children. Having children because you can is selfish. Children require 18+ years of yourself and if you have the wrong partner, they wil be the worst years of you and your childs life. Becoming a parent should not be taken lightly and its no one business if you do or don't.
@@adamromero I can guarantee that if you don't have kids, your kids will not help you. I just spent 3 weeks going every night to the hospital where my dad was. Just helped him get home too. My son also helped. Good luck to those who have other people's kids helping them. Hope you can pay enough.
As a 55 year old woman, I didn't have children since I came from a family of generational incest. I've been called selfish, etc. for not having them. I live a great life, though and still have children in my life. It's the best of all worlds! I'm so glad that younger women feel comfortable not having them. You can have an amazingly beautiful life without them. And continue fighting for abortion rights - the 12 year old me needs to know that all other girls dealing with incest and sexual abuse have a choice.
Who do you owe children to, that makes you "selfish"? I noticed liberal sprinkling of the use of that accusation, from people who can't define how others are obligated to their expectations.
I'm so sorry that happened to you and I am glad you have found fulfillment in helping others.🩷 its not anyone's business why people are not having kids and it's beyond inappropriate that this topic has crept back into society's discourse. We are going backwards. It's clear that people who say you are selfish mean you are selfish not to share in their misery and they are mad about it.
Young woman here planning to be childfree. Children in the US are not seen as human beings, I’ve noticed they’re often seen as property of parents. I’ve also noticed, especially in right wing circles that children again, aren’t human beings, they’re a means to reinforce a certain social structure (“keeping women in their place”) it’s so disgusting. Anyways, I’d like to be at the forefront of change regarding how we perceive and interact with children. I have 3 nieces so far and I love them so much. I want the best for them.
In my parents' generation, the question wasn't if they had children, they just did. And that is what Republicans want to see a return to now. At the same time, they want to make the reality of parenthood as harsh as possible. Liberals see it as a matter of choice and want to work to make it happen. I did not hear a persuasive argument from these two authors for actually having kids, and that is the real problem.
Agree! I will start listening to their arguments that kids are good and women must have them when they talk about how to take care of babies and children who are hungry. Instead, they oppose school lunches and largely ignore the plight of foster children
It's always women's fault - when we have kids or when we don't, when we get married or when we don't. Now for the first time in history women have some choice in terms of finding a partner and having kids and a lot of women are opting out.
Word salad word salad word salad. Our planet is overpopulated; resources run thin, and we lose animal species each month. As we end biodiversity, our own species is at risk; the world faces a 6th mass extinction. We're at 8.2 billion and reach 9 billion 2037.
@@buzoff4642 Try to pay attention. People in underdeveloped countries are dying in droves as a result of wars over land and resources, and in developing countries girls who are getting educations are marrying later.
@@buzoff4642 Population looks to be peaking in the 21st century. The West and much of Asia (especially China) will drop off and the growth in Africa/Middle East will not offset it.
I'm a grandmother, and I am encouraging my granddaughters NOT to have kids. I'm encouraging them to totally enjoy their lives without the complications and expense of kids. This world is too cruel and heartless for the innocence of children
You are not alone. I have 2 female friends in their late 50s who have told their adult children the same thing. I'm CF and they acknowledge that I've made a sound choice.
People who want to have their ducks in a row first before having children aren’t wrong. If you aren’t financially and relationship stable you will suffer extensively n your whole life if you have expensive and exhausting children. No one wants to be that person who had to give up their personal dreams to go live on welfare with every second of your life being about trying to meet the demands of your family. The responsibility is overwhelming and terrifying
It's ironic that social analysis ALSO shows traditional marriage, and therefore successful child raising, to be more common in educated, upper-income households--where women have careers and the power to make free choices about getting responsible spouses and planning children. To lack education and money is to be trapped into breeding with some irresponsible male who'll probably leave, and to perpetuate cycles of poverty, abuse, and social dysfunction.
I find it very odd that no mention is made of the fact that younger people of childbearing age are the first generation to have such a strong knowledge of how mental health affects children. This seems to me like a huge factor. Many of that generation are actively pursuing healing from the damage done them by unaware or willfully ignorant parents, grandparents, teachers, church leaders, etc and the idea of trying to parent when one's own mental health is problematic is a huge risk for the well being of future generations.
I am not sure when these women finished their research. But since the overturning of Roe v Wade it has become a hazard to one’s health to be pregnant in most Republican ran states. If women aren’t considering this before they get pregnant they should be. I feel fortunate that I have had a hysterectomy and can no longer get pregnant. And I would say that that is pretty sad.
I am past that age but I fear for my daughter who does want kids. What if she has a complicated pregnancy and can’t get the abortion she needs, she could be left infertile or worse die from those complications.
I found this interview incredibly frustrating. It's clear the authors approached this subject with a personal bias - "having children is objectively a good thing" - and it colored their interpretation of the data. Having spent 20 years working as a nanny, often for parents who absolutely should NOT have been such, I am celebrating how much more deliberately and thoughtfully younger generations are taking the question of procreation. Having children is not about you - it's not about how fun you find it or how much you might like the idea of it. You are raising a future adult, a future member of the human community, and - if doing so biologically - adding another resource-dependent being to the world. OF COURSE one should take that seriously, and have high standards for self-decided eligibility. High standards are interpreted by these authors as a PROBLEM? Good grief 🤦🏻♀️ We are fast headed for a world where food, water, shelter, and protection against disease are going to be harder and harder to come by. Autocracy is on the rise, and human rights are therefore becoming an endangered commodity. The kids you procreate don't get a choice about having to deal with any of that - YOU are making the choice for someone else that THEY are going to have to grapple with those challenges and dangers. If that gives a young person contemplating parenthood pause and makes them respectful of the gravity of that choice, that's a very, very good thing.
We're at 8 billion and will reach 9 billion 2037. Human overpopulation is ending biodiversity, and this will lead to the planet's sixth mass extinction.
I agree. For individuals it’s not an obvious good thing for everyone to have children. However, it is bad for the economy for less children to be born. But that’s not my problem. I will be 43 in less than a month so I am the oldest Millennial. I knew I didn’t want kids when I was a child. I grew up in a chaotic home to put it nicely and that was the beginning of not wanting kids. Now that I am older I am glad I did not have children because I did not and do not want to take kids to practice or cheer at soccer games. I do not want the life that one has when they have children. I live in Texas, so now you could not pay me enough money to have children because now it is a major health hazard since I live in a state that will just let you die. No thanks.
@@betsywilliamsonyoga "bad for the economy" Only a stale monopolistic economy, for industry to running on autopilot, with a burgeoning labor glut. My father's 1960s paycheck was not going to buy 7 cell phones for his 5 kids and both parents. Nor will current suppressed wages, despite an imported labor glut.
100%! The interviewees respond as if it's a problem that younger people 'feel having children requires a certain readiness, a certain maturity'. IT DOES REQUIRE READINESS & MATURITY!! Young people are wise to recognize the demands of having children!
I’m 60. My reason for not having children? Because it felt pre determined. My entire life was *planned for me* without my input, before I’d had a chance to find out who I was and what I wanted to do with my life. I didn’t see that happening with men. I am idealistic in that a child is so important, and that if I had children, it was for the right reasons and *not* because “this is what women DO.” Big No on that! The more society shoved, the more I resisted.
Amen to that. Plus, in past (and largely present) generations, men wouldn't sacrifice ANYTHING for their wives to have careers. Not possible to have both except in the rarest of lucky circumstances. Younger women were raised in that, saw it, and have rejected it.
Yeah it couldn’t possibly be that millions of us grew up with parents who frequently displayed their resentment towards us. We absorbed the reality that parenthood is a pretty miserable exhausting job very early. We’re not falling for the romantic idea that parenthood is wonderful. In my opinion freedom is much more of a factor than money for younger generations not having children.
Parenthood can be wonderful but it requires a lot of things to line up. Leaving aside the obvious (the instability of today's world especially the cost of having kids) we do not have the same kind of community support in raising kids while having way higher expectations on parents. In my own childhood I was raised not just by my parents but also my grandma and occasionally also by other relatives, family friends or even parents of my schoolfriends. Kids had a lot more independence back then and my parents were not tied to us all of the time beyond the first years of life. Rihgt now having kids often means giving up on everything else, especially social life and people have enough loneliness and isolation to deal with already.
This is so true, and it was true in my family, at least with my mother. My father, being in the military, was often not there, but he did care about me, but in a very uninvolved kind of way, which I thought (or was told) was because he trusted me. But my mother’s resentment and dislike of me was very evident. I was the third child with two older brothers (is it any wonder I became a feminist??), and I always said that she wanted to finally have a girl, but I wasn’t the girl she wanted. Primarily, I was somehow born into this world with my own mind, and developed a voice to express it, and I didn’t agree with her on everything (and not even much, really), and she couldn’t stand that. She wanted a sweet girly little Shirley Temple who would keep her mouth shut, and who she could just pull out to show off to company. That just wasn’t me. I saw how much more fun my brothers had running around the neighborhood and climbing trees, so I did that. Plus, being a Boomer, I remember very well when The Pill and abortion were legalized, and it changed my life. Until then, all most of us girls could look forward to was growing up, finding our own “Prince Charming”, having babies and baking apple pies. All of a sudden, the whole world was opened up to us. We could choose what we wanted. And I chose not to have children. And I’ve never regretted that decision, not once, not ever.
@@atropabelladonna "Rihgt now having kids often means giving up on everything else" For some, because of the economy. For others (helicopter/snow plow parents), its their choice to. I'd have gone nuts with the second, as parents.
Yeah I don't think I would have made a very good parent because children are very hard to calm down even if your the mother this child was screaming in his cart for 45 minutes the other day I would feel like it's all my fault and cry too. I don't want to be responsible for some child's sadness they don't make mothers feel very loved they demonize them and then they wonder why so many more women opt out of it. As if mom has a magic wallet to make things better every time daddy doesn't have the funding it looks pretty in a picture but in real life it's a nightmare especially if the dad hangs around and theres no love left in the relationship. The child will never see there parents hold hands or hug so it does something to there development when the parents don't love each other but they want women to be ready to jump on board with this BS knowing the majority of them hate us no matter what we do?
@@unicorn73212 Kids screaming in the store(s) are usually vastly overtired. Once saw a man in the mall buying a fridge near 10pm. The screaming baby he was holding bit him in the shoulder, furious not getting his father's attention. It is symptomatic of our economically unstable culture. There is no one home, to leave the kid(s) with, regardless of reason, with sole adult who've things to be done. "the majority of them hate us" are those who've limited life experience - and I don't understand why anyone would give a care what "they" think.
As a side effect, the overturning of Roe vs Wade took away healthcare for pregnant women. I would not be surprised if we see an increase in mother and infant mortality rates because of that in the coming years. If I were of child rearing age, I would not become pregnant in the US right now. If I have a complication, I want to know that I can receive timely care to preserve my health and my ability to try again.
I needed a d&c years ago due to a miscarriage. I was scheduled to have it but a few days before my appointment, the sac came out on its own. It literally felt like labor. I can't imagine women dying due to not being able to get this procedure done if the sac doesn't pass out of the body on its own. Its just barbaric that they would opt for women to suffer purposely or die as a result. I don't blame people for not wanting children. Our lack of universal healthcare, cost of delivery, not wanting to extend benefits if people fall on hard times, and the declining of the planet isn't enticing. My son said he doesn't want to bring a child into this world in the state its in.
My son & DIL (both 29 y/o) have an income > $500K, own their own home and have a robust retirement account started. But they're not having kids because they're very uncertain about existential issues like climate change and the rise of fascism in society.
But have they seen the move Idiocracy (2006) yet? They sound like the exact sort of people who SHOULD have kids. Here's the intro to the movie and the trailer. It seemed wildly unfathomable until the last Republican National Convention! th-cam.com/video/sP2tUW0HDHA/w-d-xo.html
I find very few who don't have kids is because they don't like kids. It seems to be more of a decision based on a sense of risk. Unstable economy, unreliable or no support network, household came apart when they were kids, etc.
Poverty is the best reason no t to have children I’m a boomer. I am child free by choice. I knew that i could keep myself housed and fed, wasn’t so sure about anyone else The young people coming of age now have it so much worse. Everything is so much more expensive. $200k for a starter home, $50k and up for a decent car I have noticed that the fans of enforced fertility and child bearing, are often very wealthy. Perhaps if they hadn’t sucked up all the resources , people could afford families Given that there are over 8 Billion humans on the planet , I think the concern with a “ declining birth rate” is a first world problem. It’s simply a matter of logistics.
I feel the same way. People can barely afford to care for themsleves, let alone a child that is fully dependent on you. It's not fair to bring a child in this world without something to offer it. That's why these women in this interview lamenting about people's standards being too high falls on deaf ears.
If this discussion doesn’t get at economic inequality then you’re missing a huge factor. When you know society won’t help you if you fall on hard times then why would you add children to that?!? It’s not the only factor but having community support, stable jobs, less violent politics, then it’s easier to have children. Also not too long ago children were necessary for economic growth of a family. And that’s no longer true.
I wish someone would explain this bizarre casting childless as "selfish". Where's this _entitlement_ to a public obligated to breed coming from?!? And where's this bizarre casting it as a millennial issue coming from? My first awareness of intentionally childless growth, was latter era boomers who were teenagers during the first economic blowup, early 1970s, who saw their parents fiscal state go unstable. Visibly, 6 of the 8 of us in my work group opted childless, by the early 1990s. Millennial weren't old enough to even consider having kids, so this precedes millennial.
I think the judgemental attitude comes from 1) thinking that the past and its traditions are sacrosanct, and there's something wrong with those who think otherwise, &/OR 2) Bible literalists who take very seriously the record in Genesis (first book in the Bible) that the first instruction God gave humans was "Be fruitful and multiply", &/OR 3) people who don't have children often gain more freedom to do what they want and that people with children can't do, so critics extrapolate backwards and assume that was their motive. There are probably more explanations.
People think caring about someone is selfless. So not caring is selfish. It's not just about children, it's on everything. If you don't care about the same thing someone else does, you get called selfish. It's a form of spiritual abuse by usually insane people.
@@OneLine122 I remember a male friend of mine telling me how having children was so selfless. He felt he gave up so much. Yet he wasn't the one to give up his career; his wife, a physio did. I blasted him because, at the time, I was a late 30's female with no descent prospect on the horizon & I was okay with being asked continuously, (by well meaning people), why I wasn't married with kids or when I'd be. I'd dated several nice men for 1-2 years each & had been engaged but realized it would all be on me to raise the children & step child & bring in income, (even though he worked he spend recklessly), for a stable home. I was already burnt out from a profession of caring as an RN. I didn't feel it would be fair to bring children into such a state of life. I do like children & enjoy how their minds work, their creativity & their living in the moment. Unfortunately adults don't teach children anything about politeness, responsibility or consequences these days.
@@OneLine122 Caring for people we know little about is selfless. Holding the door, for the person behind us, helping someone struggling with bags, etc. Selfish is thrown around by some as "You're not doing what I want.", who've no legitimate reason for the expectation. Aka, manipulation. As heard this week on TV, "No. is a complete statement." My former mother-in-law used to come back with "Why?", for material she could pressure me into/out of. These days, I just laugh and say "Because I'm hateful and selfish.", a deadend for manipulative people to argue with.
@@carolhartley5982 Definitely women are redefining the role of female. That started with a big bang, when the early 1970s' layoffs sent single income Dad home with a pink slip. Mom started working. I expect your 1 and 3 are most likely, as the Mr says "selfish" is thrown around in India also. Roles are changing, and that seems to be triggering panic and hostility.
Tell that to the Third World. They're breeding like rats with no concern about how their offspring will sustain themselves. The excess are trying to barge into Europe and North America. Africa is the worst with impoverished women having 7 kids.
Interesting interview. You say that women need to be comfortable talking about having children. That may be true but, society still has to accept that some people truly don't want children and they shouldn't be harassed and belittled for it. I'm a Gen X woman who has never wanted children. I've had a whole lot of venom and very rude comments because of it. If you want children, great. Just don't make those of us who don't into monsters. I care about everyone. Bleeding heart liberal. I don't have kids but, I don't want anyone's kids going hungry or not getting a good education or to have parents that can't find anywhere to live, because they can't afford it. We're all human. 💙🇺🇸
You're right, the flip side is equally important: women need to be comfortable talking about _NOT_ having children. I'm a Silent Generation woman who, like you, never wanted children, and never regretted my choice. I've been concerned about population growth since the sixties, and with the climate making more and more of the world inhospitable to human life, ZPG seems like the most reasonable solution.
"venom and very rude comments" ?!? I'd probably dish back my same, "What's it to you?!?", when derisive comments were made about gays, mixed race couples, women in the military, etc.
These people who talk like that to you are simply jealous because they see your light and freedom that has vanished since they made the decision to have children..especially when it's unplanned. They are mad that you figured it out before them and they are projecting their anger about their own decisions on you. Misery needs company!
@@mba321 Immigration is being forced on us because American women are too selfish and loose to have children. I have no interest in giving my country over to illegals. So if we have a population loss then we have a population loss. I am voting for mass deportations and I really hope Bidenomics drives everyone to vote Trump.
Millennial here. I just think my generation truly believes in reproductive freedom and that's totally consistent with a tendency to see becoming a parent as a choice to be made independently and responsibly and not merely done as society dictates.
A kid is a BIG investment! Why raise 2 underachieving kids when you can focus on bringing one up well with the best resources? As for the child-free zones, I like kids. But most parents don’t know how to manage their kids in public- it’s a bad parenting problem, not a kid problem.
Kids are loud and energetic. I get that parents need to teach them to be disciplined but if your expectation is that they sit quietly all the time then I’m afraid no type of good parenting is going to satisfy you.
@@lasha3688YES! A culture that prioritizes children is a culture that can roll with the unexpected. You have to make room for a little discomfort to welcome children.
I did want children when I was of child-bearing age, but we were not successful in getting pregnant. However, if I were of child bearing age now, I would not want to have children. Because I would be afraid of the world we are leaving for them with climate change. And the state of our country right now the divisiveness, the cost of living. AI is scary too. I feel as a Gen X,er we were the last of the best times to live. I wouldn't want to bring a child into this world now. I'm glad now, that I am not leaving any behind. But my heartaches for my great niece and nephew who are 4 and 2, and pray that this world will be good to them.
Easy answer. Living expenses inflation. Childcare costs rival rent and mortgage payments. All other costs have gone up. Wages have increased also, but not proportionally. Money today does not go as far as it did for Gen X and baby boomers.
@@dropletsonbardi Last week my manager said he's looking forward to the birth of his first grandchild as he and his wife help take care of the baby. My male coworker said, "Just make sure there's someone to hand the baby to when it needs a diaper change.", laughing. I've only once in my life heard a man chide another man for being childish. Furthermore, those kinds of comments have done fathers enormous damage in divorce court, regarding custody. Fortunately, overall the younger men seem less man-babies.
Confirmed bachelor here. And my actions still matter no matter what vance has said. Single people pay plenty of taxes as it is. The new normal is sustainability for families.
I found this interview seriously lacking. The discussion presupposes that all, or most, people will be good parents. That’s not what we observe, empirically. Young people are observing how much their parents have f- d up. The strictures on speaking about trauma are falling away. Their decisions are rooted in other things besides economics, but the authors don’t address the issue of good parenting. And there’s no danger of a shortage of people, any time soon. Global population is still rising. It’s irresponsible to not mention that. I note that both authors, who appear to have a pronatalist bias, are White. Surely, that colors their view. The interviewer should have pushed back on all of that.
Because there is very little societal support for children. No one will help with your children unless you pay a fortune. Any time you take away from working will be severely punished economically.
The tone of the researchers are so off. Y’all are making it sound like it’s bad that we are starting as humans to think about the quality of life for our future children. My parents were irresponsible and raised me and my 7 siblings in poverty. I personally would have preferred that they had remained childless and grown in themselves, with each other and financially before jumping to having kids. We are not thinking of kids as an expensive hobby wtf. We are seeing the decision to have kids as an important one and giving it the thoughtfulness and y’all are treating it with such levity wow.
At least u understand, and I thank you for that. I’m not against other people having kids, the only thing is that as long as they are (fully) ready for them. I chose not to have kids for that reason, I’m not mother material, I’m abt to be an adult and yet I can’t seem to grow up, causing me to be all goofy and funny to my friends. I knew since I was 16 that I wasn’t goi g to be a mom because I simply can’t handle children in the first place.
I agree with so many of the comments below, that the bias of this interview is that it is somehow a "problem" to choose not to have children, or to have them a bit later. There are hundreds of reasons why people choose to have children or not. To speak of this in broad brush-strokes, and to repeatedly place such a generalized assessment of "liberals and progressives" thinking a certain way... all of this really rubs me the wrong way and feels inaccurately representative. If people are overwhelmed by financial pressures, don't have reliable or desirable spouses, have very real anxieties over the grim future we face due to climate change, or scores of other completely viable reasons, then these are responsible and real considerations before simply leaping into having children, despite those concerns. It seems more mature and responsible to me that people are measuring their realistic ability to responsibly raise children, rather than make babies just because they are of child-bearing age. There is something in the tone of this interview that I find really unsettling, misrepresentative, and compartmentalizing.
I love children...healthcare in America is expensive and not all of it is accessible to everyone in many situations....it's VERY expensive to have children here...living in America it is not child friendly...schools are not safe, child activities are harder to find, and many people do not have the villages that help raise children...until these change for the better in America and around the world folks won't have children..
Folks around the world won't have children until their countries become child-friendly? LMAO Typical clueless American... The fertility rate for Africa in 2022 was 4.2 births per woman. FOUR children.
This generation was brought up by parents working in a corporate America that actively discriminates against people with children. It was a nightmare for my family. The stress was overwhelming. Working parents were agonized. Unbridled capitalism and patriarchy decided to add an extra HALF at the END of the day to increase production. No one did anything extra except grow an ulcer worrying about picking kids up. I decided not to go back 3 months after my daughter was born and had to write them a check for the 3 months salary. And had to start at the bottom when I DID return. Company health insurance SUCKED and cost a FORTUNE out of people’s salaries. Oppression of employees got worse every year in the 90s and 00s, with jobs flying overseas and my co-workers being “let go” silently daily. My colleagues told me that I shouldn’t have had a baby if I wasn’t ready. Incalculable numbers of abortions have been performed with corporate interests in mind-right-wing, pro-life-spouting companies. Profit over family has been the American way forever. Now they’re pissed the labor force is dwindling. And corporate profits over climate protection has left a world my daughter won’t bring another life into.
People think that “that they need to be financially secure and emotionally mature” because we’ve been so harmed by rocky economies, unpredictable events like 2008 housing crash and 2020 COVID, and by parents who weren’t financially stable and prepared and who were not emotionally mature or ready to raise another human being. Also, regardless of climate change actually happening right now in front of us, we’ve heard for decades how overpopulated the planet is and how we don’t have the resources so a declining birth rate logically for survival of the human race seems like a good thing and the only reason I’ve EVER heard put forward for keeping a stable or increasing birth rate is for economics. So that the future generation will be large enough to support the aging population. I’m not having kids to drive the economic engine.
@@kjjohnson24 When raising a child costs half a million dollars from birth to 18, rent/mortgage, student loans, healthcare expenses, having your save for retirement, etc., a tax credit doesn’t cut it. These women are delusional.
They wanted to hem haw around it but it always comes back to people want to be able to afford a decent quality of life for their children devoid of poverty. That's how we should be thinking. Shame on these writers making it seem like people having standard for themselves is wrong
@Sarah-re7cg - you just watched the latest propaganda in the news media that wants to guilt people (women in particular) to have children at all costs. It's now reached liberal media. It adjust not as blunt as JD Vance would say it, but its still the same message...dressed up.
Being a parent is very difficult. I often wonder how others manage. I love my children but I am constantly stressed, low on time and energy and busy doing housework in addition to my job related duties. Also it is very difficult to save after paying a mortgage, saving for college, saving for our 401ks and paying for one or two extra curricular activities for them. Before we had kids, it was so easy to save and to have a clear budget but with kids there are more unexpected expenses including school supplies uniforms etc. We are not close to family who can help us out. I think before having kids people need to prepare financially and have a job that allows for unexpected events that can happen.
@@analienfromouterspace You don't have to get married, to have a baby. Marriage has outlived its usefulness, given divorce rate. But given the nature of our tenuous employment market, I don't know how much someone has to save, to ensure you've enough money to raise a baby.
@@buzoff4642 Except in some places if you want to have kids and are not rich being married is the only smart choice - tax benefits are higher for married parents, IVF is refunded (even if partially) only for married couples... it feels coercive.
It’s also difficult to imagine bringing kids to a country where gun violence is the biggest cause of death in children. It’s difficult to imagine bringing kids to a world where so many children are being bombed, starved, brutalised, and we witness it, and demand an end to it, but our “governments” and their love of corporations that profit from weapons-refuse to listen to the majority of their constituents…. Young people are in so much pain, in despair, about the ongoing genocide in Palestine, and how their voices are being silenced. They know this is a sh….t show, and that climate catastrophe holds existential terror for the world, as mounting larger war and bloated war chests full of the toys of nuclear weapons - so bringing kids here, well. It may well feel like madness. Talk to them. Interesting how this good focused discussion also talks around but does not confront the largest issues.
Have you ever asked an older woman if she could do it all over again, would she still have children? I have. You would be surprised how many women say No, I don't think I would have children. This conversation gets framed as a "younger generation" problem, but it's not. Now that it is no longer taboo to treat this as a choice rather than a duty or a given, you have more people opting out. Just as many people would have opted out before if they had been given a choice and not been conditioned by society to do their "civic duty." Society doesn't care about people, it only cares about babies. Every day I walk by homeless encampments, I work in a hospital with a rehab center and I have parents with untreated mental health issues. No one wants to bring a kid into a world where large groups of people are having these experiences. No one wants their kid to have these experiences. Of course, they feel pressure to have a significant safety net, live in an expensive neighborhood with a great school, have a booming career, etc. It makes sense to make these considerations before having children, especially if you grew up experiencing the precariousness of the Great Recession, the increase in domestic t e r r or i s m, and the pandemic. How many of our parents were victims of mass layoffs and hiring freezes? How many of us experienced a school s h o o t i n g? How many of us were told we couldn't go in to work and sent a check for $1200? Younger generations are responding to their lived experiences and current circumstances, it would be selfish not to.
No one mentions the necessity of a good support system and I don't only mean government programs, I mean a woman's family situation. There may be no grandma to help out due to death or illness, or grandma might have been such a rotten mother herself that you don't want a child anywhere near her. Maybe no siblings to help for the same reasons or for reasons of geographic distance. It's foolish to have kids if you have no support system, unless you are well-to-do and can afford nannies.
Nothing more selfish than wanting to add a replication of oneself - a mini-me - that one can control and mould into their own image. Livin' n' lovin' the Childfree life.
If more people are having not children because they generally do not want to be parents, then that is a good thing, period. With more choices come more options and opportunities to be alive and experience life. I admire my friends who've decided to parent, and those who remain childfree, because they're doing what is right for them and their families.
I never wanted children of my own. I’ve been in education over 25 years so contributed to the “village” so to speak. My brothers had kids and now my nieces/nephews have grown into lazy, and rude adults. All 5 of them totally suck. Helped validate my decision.
I also want to say god forbid there are people who are deeply thinking through bringing a kid into this world and would like to be ready emotionally and financially.
The planet has too many people. Ms Berg obviously buys into the myth that more people is a good thing. She should go live in one of the extremely densely populated cities for a while, then explain why more is better.
No, it is distribution problem. Only few jobs offer good pay, many cities that hasn't economically developed, housing supply vs demands, wage inflation compared to COLA, and access to affordable education and meaningful degrees such as STEM degrees.
At 77, I’ve never regretted my decision not to have children. Coming from a toxic family I knew I didn’t have the tools to be a good parent. I wish more people would do a self examination of their ability to parent.
@@dorksplorer she decided she won’t have kids because of her experience with her family. She should have had kids and raised them differently from the negative experience she had growing up
@@c.f.okonta8815 she also said she did a self examination, and determined she didn't have the tools to be a good parent. That seems like someone trying to make sure a child isn't brought into a bad situation. That doesn't seem selfish to me, but people see situations differently. 🕊️
Whenever these discussions come up I always point to Japan: not enough kids to replace themselves, not enough immigration to make up for that. And then I went to Japan, then came home and read on the subject: surprise: quality of life is through the roof in Japan, they have more than enough money for retirement. Things aren't falling apart. Yes, the population will go down, but it doesn't mean they are "failing" or dying out. Or in any kind of danger. Conclusions: you don't need immigration to replace these numbers, and you don't need to panic if not enough babies are coming into the world to replace ourselves. Japan with a population of 50 million is not "death":, the U.S. with 250 million is not a problem. In fact, there could be many many advantages: less pollution of all kinds, more options in housing, better situation for the rest of nature. And maybe more appreciation of the kids who do arrive. Japan has days of celebration dedicated to children: bit of a hint here.
Being a parent today requires a hell of a lot more time and energy than in past decades. Parents use to send their kids to school, then out to play on their own, then dinner, bath and bed. Parents now have to spend much more time with and for their children. You almost have to give up on your own life, dreams and desires just to train another human on how to live successfully. This is why people rethink having children.
It's a social issue in US. Community is not considered important. Hillary was right about one thing: It takes a village. And we do NOT have villages. Look at seniors... many have nobody taking care of them. Medicare does not cover this; medical does but to limited degree. Many are put out to pasture in homes. Some just die on their owns in houses. We don't value individual lives... so why have more? My mother did not want kids but had two to look "normal." She was unfit, and nobody stepped in to help us-- her kids. I think some Asian countries and Hispanic ones, are much better to their kids than those in the Western world.
As a Gen Xer, who decided not to have kids, man-oh-man was there pressure from all sides regarding having kids. I have been called selfish by my own family members. I‘ve had employers ask why I don‘t have kids (totally inappropriate AND a man would NEVER get asked this). Now that I am older, I find that there is ex post facto pressure from people in my generation … no grandkids??? How awful! No one ever bothered to hear my considered, personal reasons: never had true role models as parents and was worried about passing that along; a kid born in a rich country has a HUGE carbon footprint and the world needs actually fewer births. I remember that film Parenthood, where Keanu Reeves‘ character says that you need a license to drive a car or even go fishing but they‘ll let any asshole be a father. Maybe if people really thought about raising children who will benefit society - instead of just spewing our genes into the future - we might have a better, more well-adjusted society (a little polyanna, I admit, but still). Maybe there is no pressure to have kids if you are a man but if are a woman, and you choose not to have children, there can be massive push-back.
Even if the economics are not THE reason for declining birth rates, it still needs to be addressed. Lower birth rates with longer life expectancies actually helps with resources because the west hogs the world's resources. We would help other places on the globe by lowering our population.
I say every country gets on board. Law of diminishing returns. Besides, CO2 isn't the only environmental hazard. I love asking why the low CO2 environment of Delhi India is destroying the Taj Mahal with smog.
The notion that having children is “the bedrock” of caring about the human future is a JD Vance way of thinking. So many of us devote much of our lives to investing in our collective future - esp. teachers, as well as many medics, scientists, philanthropists, public servants of every kind, artists, etc. - who in directly touching hundreds & even thousands of lives are invested in the human future far beyond the personal fate of their own children or grands.
Exactly, I’m 52, childless and my work has touched hundreds of thousands of people across the world so far. Having the extra time and energy allows me to be an even better societal contributor, not less.
I really appreciate this discussion. I am an elder millennial who has put off having children. I often hear the narrative of how “selfish” I am for this. Meanwhile I spent most of my 20s in poverty, my previous marriage was an unhappy one, and I’ve spent the past decade trying to work through my depression and trauma. I didn’t have children because I felt that this would be an unhealthy environment to raise a child in. I wanted to not only be more financially stable, but also mentally stable before having one. I’m in my late 30s now and in a happy marriage but my time to have kids is running out. It’s sad to think that I may never have children, but I stand by my decision that it is better to not have them at all than to raise them in an unstable environment. This video made me realize I am not alone, nor am I “selfish” for feeling this way.
For years we have been beaten in the head " DONT HAVE CHILDREN IF YOU CANT AFFORD THEM" and all people have received the message. I'm a single mom of 4. My girls(16-24) said they don't want kids. I ask why? They said watching struggle to raise them and I have no life. They said all I do is work, take care of them, cook, and go to sleep. I have no life. That hurt but it's true. I see there point of view. But I always wanted to be a mom. And I often do feel that I missed raising my kids because I had to work. I had my mother, father, and brother always available for child care and support.
It's a personal choice. People should understand if they look at any working mother's daily life. People want a life, not a thankless struggle. Society needs to look at how they keep making it a struggle for people. When I hear some state has refused federal funds for school lunch or healthcare, or their maternal death rate is ridiculous, I wonder how these same people are gonna convince anyone to have a baby.
Years back on a British chat board, "What do Americans want?" I said, "The same as the rest of the planet. To spend the day producing something useful, eat supper at their own table, talk to friends and family, and go to bed fairly sure they'd be doing the same tomorrow." That's a pretty low bar our globalize-damaged cultures have managed to blow apart - for sake of billionaire security.
@@watamutha Gluttony? How so? 1 car, 1 TV, 1 phone, vacation was a trip to the beach, a blowout weekend was a barbecue with the neighbors, etc. That'd be the day they'd blow a fortune flying their little 5 year old darling to Brussels to see Taylor Swift.
@@buzoff4642 Boomers own half the wealth in this country equal to all other generations currently alive combined. Yes young people have abundance of entertainment, but your generation has asset abundance and none of us will get any until you guys pass away. They voted it that way.
Sure, fertility rates are dropping, but the rate of gun violence is the number one cause of mortality for children. How is this not part of the discussion?
As a childless woman, I found these two women incredibly polarizing with this “if liberals want to do this..” I am curious as to their so called research - how do they compare the middle class American child dilemma to a globally experienced phenomena- are they saying the majority of human beings are middle class liberals? LOL
Yes their narrow mindedness was astonishing. How much research did they actually do, if they are not aware that the lowering of birth rates is global, even the birth rates in Africa are starting to decrease from what they have been.
A lot of us and our Moms got pregnant by accident. I was an accident, my daughter was an accident, my partner was an accident. If it ends up being a choice, it is much less likely to happen.
I go back and forth with wanting to have kids and being thankful I don’t have kids. Ultimately what it always comes back to, is that it would actually be selfish for me to have children just to fulfill some need for myself. Meanwhile the reality of having children would be bringing them into a world where they would struggle with climate, economy, access to opportunity etc. On top of that they wouldn’t get the best version of myself as a parent because I would be too stressed about bills, schooling, work life balance etc. Bringing a child into the world just to satisfy an experience that you want to have individually, while ignoring all the other aspects of the world or society that child would enter into is the true “selfish”.
The reasons for young women not wanting to have children are many: high childcare costs and not good childcare availability; not enough time left for children and parents relationship with full time work etc...One of my daughter is one facing these realities.
If I had to decide today to have children or not the thing that would scare me off are the reports of all the children who are affected by autism, plastics on the brain, lead in the drinking water, lower intelligence caused by innumerable factors, partners who don't want them, good education only for the wealthiest, likewise all health care and childcare, school vouchers, banned books, no secure jobs or pensions, housing insecurity climate change .... who would be able to bring children into the world today who had an ounce of ethics with regard to them? Are they puppies to love for awhile? Then what? Whats in it for them?
Looking around at the state if the world, wars, climate crisis, unfettered greed, very possible nuclear war on the cards, I'd advise young people not to have children, sadly. The future looks bleaker by the day for this planet and all living beings inhabiting it. Humans are not on a good path if their own doing, live your lives younger people, but unfortunately, having children may be a very bad decision on so many levels. Is it even fair to bring a child into this madness of a world now, I think not.
I had a daughter when i was 16. I wanted her and raised her. Her father was a lousy partner and parent...it was like having 2 children to care for, even though he was older. I made sure to stay on the pill, as I was aware of how the vicious cycle of poverty could affect another child.
I'm 44. I can't afford a house and can barely figure out how to live life or afford to take care of myself, much less worry about finding a relationship or having kids.
Why would anyone want to have a kid when it is so economically impossible to do so? The quality of life you can have without paying for childcare and school and nappies is so much better. I'd rather live my life out of poverty, debt-free and be the fun aunt that spoils the children around her. I see value in children in the world. I don't just under the older generations obsession with continuing the family line.
As someone who is still dealing with aftermath of an abusive childhood, i think having children is a roll of the 🎲. You never know what your going to expect so its just best not to put yourself in that situation.
I am single and childless (and a cat lady) and none of these factors really played a large part in my decision not to have children, I knew in high school that I did not want to parent children. I enjoy spending time with children, encouraging their curiosity and sense of fun, but parenting them is a whole different universe. I was born into a large catholic family where my parents had children because that is what was expected. Also, birth control at that time was for all practical purposes unavailable. However, my parents thought their duty ended with feeding, clothing, and making sure you behaved in public. A low bar if you ask me. The is still a lot of social pressure for people to marry, and once married to have children. (I mean many people will ask the married couples at their wedding reception-"when are you going to start a family?" Crazy social pressure. Add to that, witnessing so many couples having children solely because they thought that was what you were supposed to do, and these people had absolutely no skills and sometimes no interest in learning those skills to be effective parents...I won't fault any one from deciding not to have children. Is it perhaps, that when you ask these questions in your survey the respondents are searching for viable and socially acceptable answers to the question, rather than really searching out their true feelings? Parenting children, if you want to do it well, is very hard work, strife with stress and anxiety, and in a world where parents aren't given a whole lot of support (versus the era that believed 'it takes a village' and multigenerations lived with or near each other) and there are such varying ideas of what 'doing it well' means. For example, far-right Christian values versus more progressive and social activism type of parents. Are you that surprised that Millennials and Gen-Zers are reluctant to commit to parenting roles? The bar for being a parent should be high. Society depends on parents to do as good a job as they can manage. My experience working in retail, and in a public library in conservative Christian Idaho is that Christians are returning to having large families. People not having children also support those who do, by paying taxes and voting for representatives in our government that support programs like childcare for all and healthcare for all, and educational programs that get children the educations and training they need - Because we understand that society as a whole is better if these programs are in place to prepare the next generation for their role in society. I disagree with the position these two women make - those narratives are important - although we could do a better a job of making them discussions and not just social media narratives. They are important because they get people to stop and really think about if, and why they want to have children, and are they ready for the challenges that decision to have children will put in front of them. Maybe what needs to change is the way these narratives are explored among the populace, rather than suggesting the narratives themselves are the problem. I do agree that those conversations with oneself, within one's peer group and within romantic relationships does need to happen more often and in a safe nonconfrontational manner. Child-free zones is because so many present-day families are lacking in teaching their children proper social behaviors and good manners. Making their children often times a nuisance and a distraction or causing staff additional burdens. More recent generations have not adopted the 'it takes a village' philosophy on board and become combative and irate if you even speak to or correct their child in the simplest of ways (a very isolationist attitude regarding their child). There are over 8 billion people on the planet. I don't think it is a bad thing if the worldwide population declines, as long as a percentage of each generation continues to choose to have children. Human beings are the largest predator population on the planet after all - returning the planet ecosystem to some balance is imperative.
This idea that young people are not having kids is because they are selfish, is just bs! If people are not having kids, why is it selfish, when they are not hurting anyone. It is individual choice whether they want to have kids or not. 😂
"Kids are an expensive hobby"... that made me lol. I think that's a perfectly healthy attitude and I salute anyone who takes on the challenge and commitment. At least it's a rational decision. The tragedy is when women don't have a choice due to circumstances or lack of education. Lots of men are perfectly happy competing for how many offspring they can put out there, treating women and kids like trophies. The best I can hope is that the kids grow up to be progressives, hating their fathers, as is tradition.
I heard someone said that having a child is like having your heart outside out of your body. The american climate is too toxic and too unpredictable. I imagined that i would lose sleep, worrying every day when my child is out. You're not guaranteed your partner will raised the child with you. Having a child is a path straight to poverty. Too many negative and unpredictable variables
I am a Mom. America doesn't have an infrastructure than protects and empowers children and parents.
this^
Or even an economic system that provides ideal conditions for raising families. When the answer to economic crunch is to "move where the jobs are," that answer disrupts the kind of stable community that makes having kids possible. Kids deserve to have more than their parents as stable figures in their lives; childcare workers that turnover in their jobs aren't good substitutes for nearby relatives, long-term neighbors, and family friends.
wtf are you talking about..... this is about the dumbest comment.
@@risingphoenix1484you’re obviously not a mom!
@@daniella8400 I was thinking the same thing. About your response to another about the person not being a mom it’s worse bc we’re dealing with someone who uses feminist as an excuse. The thing is it’s more than that I’m a widow now and let me tell you when we had our child the cost of milk was crazy…… yes I tried to breastfeed and I couldn’t produce enough. I realize one day when my child was still on my breast for 2 hours and still hungry. I realize I had to work also bc I needed to support my husband. So some people who don’t have to make these decisions you can tell they will make comments 10 years ago infants milk we paid about $20 per and daycare was $600. 2 years ago after school daycare I spent $1,000 a month. You may ask why bc I had a negative experience with my child earlier daycare and this was after I became a widow. I learned not to judge people bc some people don’t like to tell their business. Everyone has to decide for themselves what works. I only have 1 child bc of life and it’s hard. Bc I know a female with 2 kids and going through a divorce I remember thinking you and your husband need to work it out depending on why…… so if it’s that man decision what can a female do????? Nothing so when I hear people say feminism it’s easier to say that but NOT look at the reality and these people are why we have issues bc it’s easy to blame a woman for everything bc some people don’t know how to be accountable and honest. There are many issues for this and unfortunately SOME people prefer to blame females for this but not look at the over all society (which is led by men, not women) no matter how we try to all be equal.
Lots of us were victims of child abuse and do not have the money for therapy and would rather not hurt a child.
It's not a given, it's a choice.
@@az55544A choice framed, if not determined, by circumstance.
Receiving abuse is not a choice..
@@Jay-jb2vr yeah but passing it on is
@az55544 how would you know how to be a good parent if all you know is abuse? But with therapy you can know how to raise a child.
If Millennials and Gen Z aren’t having kids b/c we’re “selfish and immature”, then we’re still doing better than those before us. Being selfish and immature never stopped _them._ 😒😒😒
THIS
And boom. 💥 I’m Gen x and I approve this message!
Exactly. It took some time, but America figured out by the 90s generally that you couldn't just have kids and "figure it out" the way a lot of Boomers and Silents and Greatests did. Gen X was often very intentional about having kids and raising families because they were not going to replicate the neglect they faced from their parents and society as infrastructure and institutions decayed in the 70s and 80s, but they had the added benefit of being in the prime of life during the Dotcom Boom of the second half of the 90s and were somewhat able to replace themselves with the youngest Millennials and Gen Z. But as the economic conditions for young people worsened over the 00s and things got increasingly crazy politically and socially people born after like 1975 have often chosen to forego it so as not to inflict injury on a child nor themselves. It really is quite simple.
What women have had for a few decades now, is birth control. Likely there'd be a whole lot less on the planet, if previously available.
Furthermore, Rs have said for decades now, "Don't have kids if you can't afford them.", and taunt widows, those with "deadbeat dads", etc. with "Welfare Queen", etc.
Add in severe economic turbulence, and is it any wonder so many forgoing children?
@@gf4670 Tail end of Boomers were teenagers who saw the first bust, early 1970s, when sole income households were blown out of the water.
By early 1990s, 6 of 8 of us coworkers were decidely No Kids. It's just taken a while for the media to notice the trend.
I’m glad people are standing up to the pressure to reproduce, and empowering themselves to decide what’s right for them and the life they want.
Where's this "pressure to reproduce"? I've never experienced any. The closest is the anti-abortion people, who've (currently) no say, in my life.
@@buzoff4642- The fact that we are having this conversation and the authors want us to have kids is some of the pressure
@@buzoff4642I didn’t realize things had to be experienced personally by you for them to actually exist
@@buzoff4642 There's definitely pressure from family members and society on the whole. The "so, when are you having kids" or "when are you gonna pop out another one" after you've had a child is omnipresent for many women
It almost feels like pressure now because the political narrative is that we OWE society some children. And it's those awful liberals that are too selfish to breed enough to give our economy some workers. Meanwhile doing nothing to make it easier to do this very hard job.
My top reasons (in order) for not having children:
1) school shootings - what a tragic and avoidable reason to have to bury your child.
2) workers’ protections - until I have some guarantee that I’m not just meeting some body-count quota for the corporate elites and that my children can become successful and live a comfortable life after they survive and graduate high school, I’m not giving birth to a single child.
3) I can barely afford myself- I’m supposed to have a house by now, be part of a community, and have some plan and savings for retirement. I went to college and am still paying off my debt for that. I have a career in the financial sector that pays competitively, but I still can’t buy a house. If I had children, I’d also have to find a way to feed them, clothe them, give them the little extras that make them equal to their peers, and send them to college. There’s no friggen way I can afford that even with both mine and my partner’s salaries.
4) having a daughter in this America would be terrifying- would her rights be as protected as a son’s rights? I doubt it and that terrifies me.
5) my safety- being pregnant is dangerous these days because life saving medical care sometimes includes medication that is used in abortion. I don’t want to die giving birth to a child that won’t be protected at their schools, by my government, or by the society that values a fetus over a child that is already walking through school hallways and the mother who brought them there.
I’m not selfish. I’m just so sure that having children would be a bad idea for the children. I feel like this is all very obvious and to act like we’re confused why people aren’t having kids is gaslighting at its best.
Perfectly stated.
Damn right, you're not selfish.....you are the OPPOSITE of selfish when you're considering the quality of life of your potential children. You have "long view". And it's ridiculous you even have to explain yourself in the first place. #ProChoice
Why can’t we all think this way?? We would not have children being abandoned or even being killed by their own parents.
Exactly. Thanks for saying what so many of us are thinking...
_ALL_ OF THIS!!!
Make the world safer for women and children then maybe people will want to have children.
Bingo.
Yep it's too dangerous
Agreed if I still have to lock my door at night then that's why I shouldn't have to people especially men should act right and not wander around all night trying to kidnap us. Why is the hardest solution for them to just not endanger us? They dont want all these problems but they keep causing them.
Women are safer than they have ever been. The world in general is.
The world has never been safer for women and children.
I'm a childless Gen Xer. I always thought I'd have kids, but I never found anyone suitable to have them with, so it just didn't happen. Sometimes things happen by default rather than by active choice. I get tired of this reality check being left out of discussions like these.
Excellent point
They addressed it here and along with everything else...they say its an "unrealistic" standard that is "too high". They are wrong. People shouldn't be made to feel like their standards of care for a child is too high when we know that most of societies problems are based off of the fact that people come from broken, dysfunctional homes, relationships and poverty. What's wrong with people not wanting inferior circumstances for their kids?
Agreed I think they need to speak to Gen X as well when having this conversation. There are myriad reasons why, but not having found someone to have children with is important too!
@@booknerdtv6526 Of the people I know who don't have kids, this is easily the most common reason.
Right. Sometimes it's just not in the cards...for any number of reasons. I look at the idea of having children as a luxury item. Just like if my neighbor wants a Mercedes, fine... just be sure you can afford it & take care of it.
After WWII my Catholic unstable mother had two children that she didn't want and hardly took care of because the church told her that birth control was a mortal sin. When I was 9 she had another baby and gave it to me to raise. Then when I was 11 she had yet another baby and pushed me to raise that baby too. And then she had a nervous breakdown so that by 12 I was taking care of a 3-year old, a 1-year old and HER. My mother was so unstable that had she had the choice NOT to have children she may not have dropped off the deep end. She was violent and I'd come home to find that she'd broken everything in the living room. All four of my mother's children never had children of their own -- and never having had a childhood of my own till I left home at 20 I have never regretted that decision.
"After COVID, my atheist and narcissistic mom..." Updated societal challenges will lead to the same story unless parenting becomes a supplement to all career tracks. Parenting skills and supports must become intentional achievements.
Your story hit me. I wish you peace and health.
Lots of nightmare stories, from birthing on autopilot.
And lots of childless, from having already raised a brood, during one's own childhood.
@@cg2642 Thank you for your well wishes. Unlike my 3 brothers, I got a LOT of help from 20 years old and on -- 3 years of traditional therapy (at a price I could afford), 5 months in a yoga camp at 43 when going through a divorce, a personal coach for 10 years (who only charged me for the first 3) and an ultra-liberal church in Manhattan that I attended for 32 years (that let me join at 31 as a professed agnostic.) I got LOTS of help because not only did I believe that a better life was possible but I believed that for all the labor I had contributed to my parents' family that I deserved a good life -- and I continue to enjoy a good and interesting life. Thank you again for your kindness.
@@cg2642ditto.
I’m an 80s kid and I don’t want kids. I don’t care about anyone’s opinion!!
You do to care!
@@alphaomega8373 sh UT up!
Same. It seems rare in our generation though. I just never wanted to have kids.
@@elainelouve at one point I wanted kids but it’s just too dangerous especially in the USA
@@jbundles6257Saaaaammee! And when I was 16, I realized that I wasn’t mother material and therefore I made the decision to be childfree. I’m not passing down my bullshit to them.
Single mans health insurance costs $70 per paycheck.
Family plan costs $600 per paycheck.
And this is why I cannot understand why conservatives cannot understand the benefits of universal health care. If everyone is insured by the same program, paid through taxes, and no longer has to pay private insurance a large percentage more than its actual cost, they would all be paying a lot less. There can still be private top-up insurance for those who want more bells and whistles.
Having observed family use of healthcare, yes, I can see how it's shot up through decades. One of my coworkers alone cost of fortune, bringing toddlers to the emergency room, every time they threw up from Dad's cooking experiments.
And this is why I cannot understand why conservatives cannot understand the benefits of universal health care. If everyone is insured by the same program, paid through taxes, and no longer has to pay private insurance a large percentage more than its actual cost, they would all be paying a lot less. There can still be private top-up insurance for those who want more bells and whistles.
I am.
A single woman and mine costs a hundred and seventy nine dollars a paycheck! And I work slightly above minimum wage!
Tx refused to expand Medicaid
There is nothing wrong with not wanting children, based on my experience, I encourage my grandchildren to enjoy their independence, their self fulfillment before ever thinking about being tied down by a child, they may or may not want. I raised my children but I didn’t find fulfillment in it, only responsibilities, two steps away from abject poverty, the eternal fear that you will fail them, we end up homeless, and worse I was afraid to ruin their lives as my mother said, I had ruined mine.
Being a parent isn’t a bowl of cherries, you got to have a lot of self control to get them pass the age of five and if you don’t have the resources you run the risk of ruining your children’s lives. I don’t blame them for not wanting children, they’ve seen us as parents.
Well said. I feel the same way. I had three children very young and struggled to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table the whole time. Many people don't understand how torturous it can be to live in relentless fear of failing to give your beloved children what they need. I told my daughters that they should have children only if that really, really actively WANT them. Two have had one kid each, at age 29 and age 39.
Damn straight Patsy! 💯
@@lauraramnarace1649, yes, my kids waited till they were 27 and 34, before bringing children into this world, they are in stable relationships. But yes, it was torture, knowing that if you fail them, they wouldn’t have a home, they wouldn’t stand a chance at normal, whatever normal was, I was still trying to figure it out because I didn’t know myself what normal was. Today, they lead happy hardworking lives, they got teenagers to survive, and I breathe a sign of relief, I guided them to a place, I had never been but I knew it could exist. Hugs to you, we made it out of hell.
@@lauraramnarace1649awwww, that’s a good mom right there! ❤❤
@@dannavalentin46 Thanks!💖
Not everyone is cut out to be a parent. Having children should not be encouraged. Society and the economy must be re-designed to accommodate fewer children.
I agree, and no new immigrants either!
@@imperialmotoring3789 So, bus your own tables, have to make your own beds when in a hotel, then? OK Boomer. Oh, and wipe your own butts in a few years when you are too gaga to do it.
@@imperialmotoring3789Good luck with that! You'll need immigrants to support an aging population.
Couldn‘t agree more! Well said!
@@cstone3178 Thanks! We do not need any "migrant" children!
it's not that i don't like children, it's that i've seen all my childhood women's lives being sent spiraling into abject poverty, desperation and inescapable depression and anxiety, from ending up having to raise the child alone, due to their spouses dying, either from accidents, or due to heart problems once they pass 40 (some of these men were also abusive.. at the time women weren't referred to as people, in my country, that's how deeply ingrained misogyny was, and abusive behavior from men was seen as normal). I grew up partaking in that joyless environment and it made me focus my life around avoiding having to ever go through that type of life again. Sometimes I remember my childhood poverty and cry, for simple things, like being able to afford food. I also personally live in a way less predictable times than my mother, so for me, it could go even worse. I've studied for years and years and worked very hard to build a good career for myself and to get myself out of the gutter, and i'm not going back, especially not for a kid who could very well happen to have a neurologically dictated psychological problem, like psychopathy, which absolutely can happen. A child is a Russian roulette, and your previous life experiences dictate how you view the risks and the benefits
Or both genders are lacking partnership skills and partnership supports. Peaceful empowering partnerships address every issue listed.
@@kusheran No, it doesn't. Go back and read again the comment you're responding to.
@@kusheran Men love to use that "both genders" crap, it makes them feel better to think that women are as horrible humans as they are
🤯
Same here my childhood traumas make me hesitate to have kids and didn’t start getting therapy until my thirties when I began to observe self sabotage behavior and not understanding at the time where it’s coming from. I would never forgive myself if I brought in a child and haven’t worked out my issues I’ll just be passing generational trauma to my kid.
It’s not procrastination, it’s being born into a generation that will never be able to buy a house!
owning a house is not really something that was reasonable for much of American history. Having a stable place to live is different than owning.
@@MichaelJohnson-vi6ehthese days even renting your own apartment is impossible. Most millennials I know, even couples, still have roommates and couldn't afford their rent without it. Where are they supposed to fit a child?
A majority of millennials already own houses.
@@tomasrocha6139I don't think it's that simple. Last I heard the number was around 50% and the amount of owners who are "house poor" and regret it might be pretty significant.
I agree. My dad the other day told me that he was able to buy his first house at 25 years old. I was like, "I am glad you were able to hit that milestone" . I would have told him that most people at 25 cannot afford their first house, let alone afford rent without roommates. Not to mention, back then he along with many others could afford a house. Don't even get me started with jobs and their unlivable wages that they pay. Unfortunately, my parents are living in denial, thinking that we will hit our milestones at the same ages they did. Under these circumstances, Most of Gen Z won't be able to hit said milestones until much later.
Over 80% of US households are in precarity. Those of us who grew up poor or working class have learned that our lives are governed more by crisis management than by opportunity, and it would be wrongdoing to ourselves and any children to have them in such conditions.
Furthermore, our society _hates_ kids, refusing to provide the unconditional care they need, instead regarding schools more as containment than a place to prepare for adulthood, and regarding children as delinquent undesirables unless their parents are important (ownership class).
In the shadow of the climate crisis, the lives of zoomers and alphas will be _defined_ by resources running out and the world only being able to sustain (at most optimistic estimations) a billion people. One out of eight of us. It is, in these circumstances, immoral to add new persons to the mix, no matter what the local regime or the local state thinks.
Came here to say almost exactly all of this, and you said it better than I could have 👏🏼🏆
Specifically Americans hate parenting (not kids) because it requires mature and moral social skills in relational context.
Being a broke teenage parent was never for the faint of heart, I don’t recommend it. There are lives at risk, that you may not notice, because you feel unfulfilled, trapped with your wings cut off, is hard to deal with sudden responsibilities and the new realities, that you are no longer the most important need you have.
There are a lot of mothers in crisis situations competing with their children for attention; so many ignored children because of exhausted parents or internal battles of the parents, and then we live in this country that won’t mind sacrificing children while denying their basic needs.
"our society hates kids"
Well, I wouldn't put it that way. It appears the economy is now configured for Investor Security (deregulation of market safety and integrity, employment instabilty, tax funded bailouts, etc.).
Top priority, the billion dollar babies, at the expense of everyone else.
Ironic, the Republicans' "anti-abortion" agenda, given their decades of "If you can't afford kids, don't have them."
I agree with what you said but the school system is a huge reason why I won't be having any kids into my old age of 41. I'm an Indian guy who was born and raised in the US but whose parents are from India. I grew up regular middle class, but I hated going to school since I was always a target simply because I was the only Indian kid most of the time, so I got into a ton of fist fights with bullies. Keep in mind physically I'm only 5'11 and I'm slim so growing up I was always a target due to my physical stature. I won some fights and lost some but the whole entire experience was tiring, and it always felt like I was in a prison in the sense of having to watch my back and be on guard for the next potential fight. Teachers and administrators didn't do anything they were basically like prison wardens and would turn a blind eye to the bullies.
I compare my childhood to my parent's childhood which was a much happier existence despite being poor my parents had a fun childhood. They grew up in a village on a farm in which they had a sense of community. Also, when they were in school, they never had to fear for their safety despite being in a third world country. This really shows to me how fucked up America's school system is when you are much safer going to school in a third world country vs a first world country.
I would never want to have my kids go through this crappy prison like school system. Plus, I wouldn't tolerate other kids putting their hands on my kids. I'm not willing to go through endless fights with the school system which is one of the reasons I never had any desire to have kids. My traumatic experiences growing up in the American school system is not the only reason why I didn't ever want to have kids but it's one of several.
Life itself feels a scam and is too expensive. Everyone is done.
Great quote, by Larry Ellison to Steve Jobs, "The moral high ground is the most expensive real estate on the planet."
I remember political and industry integrity. It's pretty sparse these days.
From a Gen X'er who never had or wanted children. Your views on not having children need to change rather than our views. You ask "What is the solution?" As if we need one. I have had 2 parents confess to me they regret having children. It's a huge commitment with very little upside. Plus the world is way overpopulated. The powers that run the world want us to breed because they view children as new customers. As a global community we need to cut our population. That aside. At my ripe old age my wife and I view not having kids the best decision we ever made.
Yep. First date question was always, “Do you want kids?” If he said yes there was no second date. I was made to feel weird by my family and contemporaries; it wasn’t until I was in college that I encountered others not interested in children.
All the reasons you stated, plus a recognition of our inadequacies as potential parents and not wanting to continue the generational trauma.
100%, they just want more kids to be customers/phone addicts
I concur with every point you made and I have a story similar to yours.
I was at a social event and this woman, after telling her we don't have children, replied, "Though I respect it was your decision to make, it was a selfish decision, nonetheless." This woman knows NOTHING about me or my life history----I see her often at social events, but I make a point of avoiding her.
#ChildlessByCHOICE
Well said! Thank you.
What is wrong with you? Don't care if you want children, but I do care about your speaking about why people have children. You are a hypocrit. Don't talk for people who have children. By the way don't say there is no upside. Don't talk about what you don't know.
I'm 70. As a teenager I concluded that we are creating worse world for future generations and that the most moral thing I could do is not have any kids of my own. I stuck to that and have had no regrets.
I’m glad for ya! I just hope I don’t get pressured by anyone to have kids. *(*Including my mom since apparently my mom said *“do what’s best for you.”* But at the same time she’s like: *“You never know.”* Which scares me.*)*
Me too! Exactly the same. Just turned 70. No regrets at all!
Ditto and i am 59.
All these kids think they've discovered something new with this power to decide to procreate.
1975 was frightening!
@@az555441975? Was it KISS that put you off procreation that forcefully?
what about loneliness, lack of support system in your old age?
How is it selfish to not have children. Having children because you can is selfish. Children require 18+ years of yourself and if you have the wrong partner, they wil be the worst years of you and your childs life. Becoming a parent should not be taken lightly and its no one business if you do or don't.
Just remember, you will be relying on someone else's children to take care of you when you get older.
@@kicker6274 Everyone does, kids aren't guaranteed to be caretakers of their parents.
@@adamromero I can guarantee that if you don't have kids, your kids will not help you. I just spent 3 weeks going every night to the hospital where my dad was. Just helped him get home too. My son also helped. Good luck to those who have other people's kids helping them. Hope you can pay enough.
@@kicker6274 Thats your situation. Most people with kids will still need caretakers.
@@adamromero And they are going to need more than there are. Lots more old people with lots less kids. Enjoy.
As a 55 year old woman, I didn't have children since I came from a family of generational incest.
I've been called selfish, etc. for not having them. I live a great life, though and still have children in my life. It's the best of all worlds!
I'm so glad that younger women feel comfortable not having them. You can have an amazingly beautiful life without them.
And continue fighting for abortion rights - the 12 year old me needs to know that all other girls dealing with incest and sexual abuse have a choice.
❤❤❤
Who do you owe children to, that makes you "selfish"?
I noticed liberal sprinkling of the use of that accusation, from people who can't define how others are obligated to their expectations.
I'm so sorry that happened to you and I am glad you have found fulfillment in helping others.🩷 its not anyone's business why people are not having kids and it's beyond inappropriate that this topic has crept back into society's discourse. We are going backwards. It's clear that people who say you are selfish mean you are selfish not to share in their misery and they are mad about it.
Young woman here planning to be childfree. Children in the US are not seen as human beings, I’ve noticed they’re often seen as property of parents. I’ve also noticed, especially in right wing circles that children again, aren’t human beings, they’re a means to reinforce a certain social structure (“keeping women in their place”) it’s so disgusting. Anyways, I’d like to be at the forefront of change regarding how we perceive and interact with children. I have 3 nieces so far and I love them so much. I want the best for them.
@@buzoff4642 I'm also baffled by the "selfish" accusation. Who are you hurting by not having children?
I don’t blame the younger generations for not wanting to have kids. Look at the state of the world? Look at the cost of living?
The world has always had its problems. Perhaps it is just that now, people are more informed about how bad things really are.
In my parents' generation, the question wasn't if they had children, they just did. And that is what Republicans want to see a return to now. At the same time, they want to make the reality of parenthood as harsh as possible. Liberals see it as a matter of choice and want to work to make it happen. I did not hear a persuasive argument from these two authors for actually having kids, and that is the real problem.
Agree! I will start listening to their arguments that kids are good and women must have them when they talk about how to take care of babies and children who are hungry. Instead, they oppose school lunches and largely ignore the plight of foster children
"Liberals ... want to make it happen."
I don't believe that.
Only 1 commenting on fundamentals, like Living Min Wage. That's Bernie Sanders.
Never a nickname for childless men, why. It takes two, men are getting sterilized but no denigrating nicknames for them.
Good point.
It's always women's fault - when we have kids or when we don't, when we get married or when we don't. Now for the first time in history women have some choice in terms of finding a partner and having kids and a lot of women are opting out.
Word salad word salad word salad. Our planet is overpopulated; resources run thin, and we lose animal species each month. As we end biodiversity, our own species is at risk; the world faces a 6th mass extinction. We're at 8.2 billion and reach 9 billion 2037.
EXACTLY!
Viva ZPG!!
They're talking about West/Westernized populations shrinking. Not the whole planet.
@@buzoff4642 Try to pay attention. People in underdeveloped countries are dying in droves as a result of wars over land and resources, and in developing countries girls who are getting educations are marrying later.
@@buzoff4642 Population looks to be peaking in the 21st century. The West and much of Asia (especially China) will drop off and the growth in Africa/Middle East will not offset it.
I'm a grandmother, and I am encouraging my granddaughters NOT to have kids. I'm encouraging them to totally enjoy their lives without the complications and expense of kids. This world is too cruel and heartless for the innocence of children
W grandma ❤❤❤❤ I love u❤❤❤ keep supporting your decedents! I’m with you girly 💅💅❤️❤️
Yes!❤
You are not alone. I have 2 female friends in their late 50s who have told their adult children the same thing. I'm CF and they acknowledge that I've made a sound choice.
Yes. This world hates women too.❤❤❤❤
Your saying you wish you didn't have them. Got it.
People who want to have their ducks in a row first before having children aren’t wrong. If you aren’t financially and relationship stable you will suffer extensively n your whole life if you have expensive and exhausting children. No one wants to be that person who had to give up their personal dreams to go live on welfare with every second of your life being about trying to meet the demands of your family. The responsibility is overwhelming and terrifying
It's ironic that social analysis ALSO shows traditional marriage, and therefore successful child raising, to be more common in educated, upper-income households--where women have careers and the power to make free choices about getting responsible spouses and planning children. To lack education and money is to be trapped into breeding with some irresponsible male who'll probably leave, and to perpetuate cycles of poverty, abuse, and social dysfunction.
I find it very odd that no mention is made of the fact that younger people of childbearing age are the first generation to have such a strong knowledge of how mental health affects children. This seems to me like a huge factor. Many of that generation are actively pursuing healing from the damage done them by unaware or willfully ignorant parents, grandparents, teachers, church leaders, etc and the idea of trying to parent when one's own mental health is problematic is a huge risk for the well being of future generations.
Also - climate change. Even people I know who have kids sometimes wonder if that was a good way to go given how fucked we are on this front.
@@atropabelladonna This is why my son doesn't want children. He feels he be bringing someone into the world with doomed future.
I am not sure when these women finished their research. But since the overturning of Roe v Wade it has become a hazard to one’s health to be pregnant in most Republican ran states. If women aren’t considering this before they get pregnant they should be. I feel fortunate that I have had a hysterectomy and can no longer get pregnant. And I would say that that is pretty sad.
I expect tubaligations and hysterectomies to jump in the blanket abortion restricted states.
Right, I found this entire conversation extremely tone deaf and offensive.
I am past that age but I fear for my daughter who does want kids. What if she has a complicated pregnancy and can’t get the abortion she needs, she could be left infertile or worse die from those complications.
I found this interview incredibly frustrating. It's clear the authors approached this subject with a personal bias - "having children is objectively a good thing" - and it colored their interpretation of the data.
Having spent 20 years working as a nanny, often for parents who absolutely should NOT have been such, I am celebrating how much more deliberately and thoughtfully younger generations are taking the question of procreation. Having children is not about you - it's not about how fun you find it or how much you might like the idea of it. You are raising a future adult, a future member of the human community, and - if doing so biologically - adding another resource-dependent being to the world. OF COURSE one should take that seriously, and have high standards for self-decided eligibility. High standards are interpreted by these authors as a PROBLEM? Good grief 🤦🏻♀️
We are fast headed for a world where food, water, shelter, and protection against disease are going to be harder and harder to come by. Autocracy is on the rise, and human rights are therefore becoming an endangered commodity. The kids you procreate don't get a choice about having to deal with any of that - YOU are making the choice for someone else that THEY are going to have to grapple with those challenges and dangers. If that gives a young person contemplating parenthood pause and makes them respectful of the gravity of that choice, that's a very, very good thing.
We're at 8 billion and will reach 9 billion 2037. Human overpopulation is ending biodiversity, and this will lead to the planet's sixth mass extinction.
Well said. Found your comment and you hit the nail on the head. Thank you.
I agree. For individuals it’s not an obvious good thing for everyone to have children. However, it is bad for the economy for less children to be born. But that’s not my problem.
I will be 43 in less than a month so I am the oldest Millennial. I knew I didn’t want kids when I was a child. I grew up in a chaotic home to put it nicely and that was the beginning of not wanting kids. Now that I am older I am glad I did not have children because I did not and do not want to take kids to practice or cheer at soccer games. I do not want the life that one has when they have children. I live in Texas, so now you could not pay me enough money to have children because now it is a major health hazard since I live in a state that will just let you die. No thanks.
@@betsywilliamsonyoga "bad for the economy"
Only a stale monopolistic economy, for industry to running on autopilot, with a burgeoning labor glut.
My father's 1960s paycheck was not going to buy 7 cell phones for his 5 kids and both parents.
Nor will current suppressed wages, despite an imported labor glut.
100%! The interviewees respond as if it's a problem that younger people 'feel having children requires a certain readiness, a certain maturity'. IT DOES REQUIRE READINESS & MATURITY!! Young people are wise to recognize the demands of having children!
I’m 60. My reason for not having children? Because it felt pre determined. My entire life was *planned for me* without my input, before I’d had a chance to find out who I was and what I wanted to do with my life. I didn’t see that happening with men. I am idealistic in that a child is so important, and that if I had children, it was for the right reasons and *not* because “this is what women DO.” Big No on that! The more society shoved, the more I resisted.
Amen to that. Plus, in past (and largely present) generations, men wouldn't sacrifice ANYTHING for their wives to have careers. Not possible to have both except in the rarest of lucky circumstances. Younger women were raised in that, saw it, and have rejected it.
The reason is people are not stupid and they seehow crazy our societies are. Why bring a human into this that you expect to love?
Yeah it couldn’t possibly be that millions of us grew up with parents who frequently displayed their resentment towards us. We absorbed the reality that parenthood is a pretty miserable exhausting job very early. We’re not falling for the romantic idea that parenthood is wonderful. In my opinion freedom is much more of a factor than money for younger generations not having children.
Parenthood can be wonderful but it requires a lot of things to line up. Leaving aside the obvious (the instability of today's world especially the cost of having kids) we do not have the same kind of community support in raising kids while having way higher expectations on parents. In my own childhood I was raised not just by my parents but also my grandma and occasionally also by other relatives, family friends or even parents of my schoolfriends. Kids had a lot more independence back then and my parents were not tied to us all of the time beyond the first years of life. Rihgt now having kids often means giving up on everything else, especially social life and people have enough loneliness and isolation to deal with already.
This is so true, and it was true in my family, at least with my mother. My father, being in the military, was often not there, but he did care about me, but in a very uninvolved kind of way, which I thought (or was told) was because he trusted me. But my mother’s resentment and dislike of me was very evident. I was the third child with two older brothers (is it any wonder I became a feminist??), and I always said that she wanted to finally have a girl, but I wasn’t the girl she wanted. Primarily, I was somehow born into this world with my own mind, and developed a voice to express it, and I didn’t agree with her on everything (and not even much, really), and she couldn’t stand that. She wanted a sweet girly little Shirley Temple who would keep her mouth shut, and who she could just pull out to show off to company. That just wasn’t me. I saw how much more fun my brothers had running around the neighborhood and climbing trees, so I did that. Plus, being a Boomer, I remember very well when The Pill and abortion were legalized, and it changed my life. Until then, all most of us girls could look forward to was growing up, finding our own “Prince Charming”, having babies and baking apple pies. All of a sudden, the whole world was opened up to us. We could choose what we wanted. And I chose not to have children. And I’ve never regretted that decision, not once, not ever.
@@atropabelladonna "Rihgt now having kids often means giving up on everything else"
For some, because of the economy. For others (helicopter/snow plow parents), its their choice to. I'd have gone nuts with the second, as parents.
Yeah I don't think I would have made a very good parent because children are very hard to calm down even if your the mother this child was screaming in his cart for 45 minutes the other day I would feel like it's all my fault and cry too. I don't want to be responsible for some child's sadness they don't make mothers feel very loved they demonize them and then they wonder why so many more women opt out of it. As if mom has a magic wallet to make things better every time daddy doesn't have the funding it looks pretty in a picture but in real life it's a nightmare especially if the dad hangs around and theres no love left in the relationship. The child will never see there parents hold hands or hug so it does something to there development when the parents don't love each other but they want women to be ready to jump on board with this BS knowing the majority of them hate us no matter what we do?
@@unicorn73212 Kids screaming in the store(s) are usually vastly overtired. Once saw a man in the mall buying a fridge near 10pm. The screaming baby he was holding bit him in the shoulder, furious not getting his father's attention.
It is symptomatic of our economically unstable culture. There is no one home, to leave the kid(s) with, regardless of reason, with sole adult who've things to be done.
"the majority of them hate us" are those who've limited life experience - and I don't understand why anyone would give a care what "they" think.
As a side effect, the overturning of Roe vs Wade took away healthcare for pregnant women. I would not be surprised if we see an increase in mother and infant mortality rates because of that in the coming years. If I were of child rearing age, I would not become pregnant in the US right now. If I have a complication, I want to know that I can receive timely care to preserve my health and my ability to try again.
Exactly. Well said.
'I would not be surprised if we see an increase in mother and infant mortality rates' it's already happened
Texas already has a skyrocketing death rate of pregnant women after Dobbs reversal. It's happening and being reported on now
I needed a d&c years ago due to a miscarriage. I was scheduled to have it but a few days before my appointment, the sac came out on its own. It literally felt like labor. I can't imagine women dying due to not being able to get this procedure done if the sac doesn't pass out of the body on its own. Its just barbaric that they would opt for women to suffer purposely or die as a result. I don't blame people for not wanting children. Our lack of universal healthcare, cost of delivery, not wanting to extend benefits if people fall on hard times, and the declining of the planet isn't enticing. My son said he doesn't want to bring a child into this world in the state its in.
We already are seeing an increase in material and infant mortality in the states with bans. It's already here. It's already happening
My son & DIL (both 29 y/o) have an income > $500K, own their own home and have a robust retirement account started. But they're not having kids because they're very uncertain about existential issues like climate change and the rise of fascism in society.
What is DIL and what do they do that they earn that kind of money.
@@c.f.okonta8815
Daughter in Law.
He's a Senior Machine LearningI Engineer. She does volunteer work.
@@normlang1994 wow that’s cool
@@normlang1994Ayy shoutout to him being a machine learning engineer. I might go into that after school. Or a data engineer. I haven’t decided yet.
But have they seen the move Idiocracy (2006) yet?
They sound like the exact sort of people who SHOULD have kids. Here's the intro to the movie and the trailer. It seemed wildly unfathomable until the last Republican National Convention! th-cam.com/video/sP2tUW0HDHA/w-d-xo.html
Who wants to bring kids to a world filled with exploitation and injustice.
So do we conclude that responsible people are not having kids?
I find very few who don't have kids is because they don't like kids. It seems to be more of a decision based on a sense of risk. Unstable economy, unreliable or no support network, household came apart when they were kids, etc.
Yes they are either not having them or just slow to having them for all the reasons tye poster above me stated.
Yep
Yes
The documentary Idiocracy explains this very well with flow charts.
Poverty is the best reason no t to have children I’m a boomer. I am child free by choice. I knew that i could keep myself housed and fed, wasn’t so sure about anyone else
The young people coming of age now have it so much worse. Everything is so much more expensive. $200k for a starter home, $50k and up for a decent car
I have noticed that the fans of enforced fertility and child bearing, are often very wealthy. Perhaps if they hadn’t sucked up all the resources , people could afford families
Given that there are over 8 Billion humans on the planet , I think the concern with a “ declining birth rate” is a first world problem. It’s simply a matter of logistics.
"I knew that i could keep myself housed and fed"
Given the tenuous nature of employment, you're a rarity.
I feel the same way. People can barely afford to care for themsleves, let alone a child that is fully dependent on you. It's not fair to bring a child in this world without something to offer it. That's why these women in this interview lamenting about people's standards being too high falls on deaf ears.
Declining. Birth rate panic is about white supremacy slipping away
If this discussion doesn’t get at economic inequality then you’re missing a huge factor. When you know society won’t help you if you fall on hard times then why would you add children to that?!? It’s not the only factor but having community support, stable jobs, less violent politics, then it’s easier to have children. Also not too long ago children were necessary for economic growth of a family. And that’s no longer true.
I wish someone would explain this bizarre casting childless as "selfish". Where's this _entitlement_ to a public obligated to breed coming from?!?
And where's this bizarre casting it as a millennial issue coming from? My first awareness of intentionally childless growth, was latter era boomers who were teenagers during the first economic blowup, early 1970s, who saw their parents fiscal state go unstable. Visibly, 6 of the 8 of us in my work group opted childless, by the early 1990s. Millennial weren't old enough to even consider having kids, so this precedes millennial.
I think the judgemental attitude comes from 1) thinking that the past and its traditions are sacrosanct, and there's something wrong with those who think otherwise, &/OR 2) Bible literalists who take very seriously the record in Genesis (first book in the Bible) that the first instruction God gave humans was "Be fruitful and multiply", &/OR 3) people who don't have children often gain more freedom to do what they want and that people with children can't do, so critics extrapolate backwards and assume that was their motive.
There are probably more explanations.
People think caring about someone is selfless. So not caring is selfish.
It's not just about children, it's on everything. If you don't care about the same thing someone else does, you get called selfish. It's a form of spiritual abuse by usually insane people.
@@OneLine122 I remember a male friend of mine telling me how having children was so selfless. He felt he gave up so much. Yet he wasn't the one to give up his career; his wife, a physio did. I blasted him because, at the time, I was a late 30's female with no descent prospect on the horizon & I was okay with being asked continuously, (by well meaning people), why I wasn't married with kids or when I'd be. I'd dated several nice men for 1-2 years each & had been engaged but realized it would all be on me to raise the children & step child & bring in income, (even though he worked he spend recklessly), for a stable home. I was already burnt out from a profession of caring as an RN. I didn't feel it would be fair to bring children into such a state of life. I do like children & enjoy how their minds work, their creativity & their living in the moment. Unfortunately adults don't teach children anything about politeness, responsibility or consequences these days.
@@OneLine122 Caring for people we know little about is selfless. Holding the door, for the person behind us, helping someone struggling with bags, etc.
Selfish is thrown around by some as "You're not doing what I want.", who've no legitimate reason for the expectation. Aka, manipulation.
As heard this week on TV, "No. is a complete statement." My former mother-in-law used to come back with "Why?", for material she could pressure me into/out of. These days, I just laugh and say "Because I'm hateful and selfish.", a deadend for manipulative people to argue with.
@@carolhartley5982 Definitely women are redefining the role of female. That started with a big bang, when the early 1970s' layoffs sent single income Dad home with a pink slip. Mom started working.
I expect your 1 and 3 are most likely, as the Mr says "selfish" is thrown around in India also. Roles are changing, and that seems to be triggering panic and hostility.
If you can’t afford to support children then don’t have any!
Tell that to the Third World. They're breeding like rats with no concern about how their offspring will sustain themselves. The excess are trying to barge into Europe and North America. Africa is the worst with impoverished women having 7 kids.
Interesting interview. You say that women need to be comfortable talking about having children. That may be true but, society still has to accept that some people truly don't want children and they shouldn't be harassed and belittled for it.
I'm a Gen X woman who has never wanted children. I've had a whole lot of venom and very rude comments because of it. If you want children, great. Just don't make those of us who don't into monsters.
I care about everyone. Bleeding heart liberal. I don't have kids but, I don't want anyone's kids going hungry or not getting a good education or to have parents that can't find anywhere to live, because they can't afford it.
We're all human. 💙🇺🇸
So true. You're a pariah in a small town and a worthless cat lady if judged by JD Vance. We're at 8Billion and get to 9B by 2037.
You're right, the flip side is equally important: women need to be comfortable talking about _NOT_ having children. I'm a Silent Generation woman who, like you, never wanted children, and never regretted my choice. I've been concerned about population growth since the sixties, and with the climate making more and more of the world inhospitable to human life, ZPG seems like the most reasonable solution.
"venom and very rude comments"
?!?
I'd probably dish back my same, "What's it to you?!?", when derisive comments were made about gays, mixed race couples, women in the military, etc.
Too many ppl refuse to accept that wanting to be a parent is important to being a good parent.
These people who talk like that to you are simply jealous because they see your light and freedom that has vanished since they made the decision to have children..especially when it's unplanned. They are mad that you figured it out before them and they are projecting their anger about their own decisions on you. Misery needs company!
The question should be, “why HAVE children?”
Why have immigration?
@@imperialmotoring3789 That's not the topic of this video. Try to keep up. I know it's hard for you.
@@mba321 Immigration is being forced on us because American women are too selfish and loose to have children. I have no interest in giving my country over to illegals. So if we have a population loss then we have a population loss. I am voting for mass deportations and I really hope Bidenomics drives everyone to vote Trump.
Only one reason, but it's a good one - because you WANT children.
@@Brunoburningbright
That makes sense.
My next question is, then, why do people WANT to have children?
Personally, I don't see it.
Millennial here. I just think my generation truly believes in reproductive freedom and that's totally consistent with a tendency to see becoming a parent as a choice to be made independently and responsibly and not merely done as society dictates.
A kid is a BIG investment! Why raise 2 underachieving kids when you can focus on bringing one up well with the best resources?
As for the child-free zones, I like kids. But most parents don’t know how to manage their kids in public- it’s a bad parenting problem, not a kid problem.
1000% this (and I say that as a parent and former nanny)
We can't parent in ways that we were not parented. Good parenting partnerships is generational wealth.
This! Child free zones are about the parents who don't care how their kids behave around other people.
Kids are loud and energetic. I get that parents need to teach them to be disciplined but if your expectation is that they sit quietly all the time then I’m afraid no type of good parenting is going to satisfy you.
@@lasha3688YES! A culture that prioritizes children is a culture that can roll with the unexpected. You have to make room for a little discomfort to welcome children.
I did want children when I was of child-bearing age, but we were not successful in getting pregnant.
However, if I were of child bearing age now, I would not want to have children. Because I would be afraid of the world we are leaving for them with climate change. And the state of our country right now the divisiveness, the cost of living. AI is scary too. I feel as a Gen X,er we were the last of the best times to live. I wouldn't want to bring a child into this world now.
I'm glad now, that I am not leaving any behind. But my heartaches for my great niece and nephew who are 4 and 2, and pray that this world will be good to them.
Wow. People waiting until they are financially stable and mature before having children. So troubling. Geesh
Easy answer. Living expenses inflation. Childcare costs rival rent and mortgage payments. All other costs have gone up. Wages have increased also, but not proportionally. Money today does not go as far as it did for Gen X and baby boomers.
Unstable employment, driving a nomadic requirement, also. No "social" support network (Gram, Auntie, Sister, "Can you pick them up, working late."
@@buzoff4642what about uncle brother dad?
@@dropletsonbardi Last week my manager said he's looking forward to the birth of his first grandchild as he and his wife help take care of the baby. My male coworker said, "Just make sure there's someone to hand the baby to when it needs a diaper change.", laughing.
I've only once in my life heard a man chide another man for being childish.
Furthermore, those kinds of comments have done fathers enormous damage in divorce court, regarding custody.
Fortunately, overall the younger men seem less man-babies.
Confirmed bachelor here. And my actions still matter no matter what vance has said. Single people pay plenty of taxes as it is. The new normal is sustainability for families.
This asshole having the audacity to say childless people have no stake in the future... People like him make me not want to have kids.
I found this interview seriously lacking. The discussion presupposes that all, or most, people will be good parents. That’s not what we observe, empirically. Young people are observing how much their parents have f- d up. The strictures on speaking about trauma are falling away. Their decisions are rooted in other things besides economics, but the authors don’t address the issue of good parenting. And there’s no danger of a shortage of people, any time soon. Global population is still rising. It’s irresponsible to not mention that. I note that both authors, who appear to have a pronatalist bias, are White. Surely, that colors their view. The interviewer should have pushed back on all of that.
The interview wasn't about "good parents", which is always subjective. It's the choice to have children.
Because there is very little societal support for children. No one will help with your children unless you pay a fortune. Any time you take away from working will be severely punished economically.
The tone of the researchers are so off. Y’all are making it sound like it’s bad that we are starting as humans to think about the quality of life for our future children. My parents were irresponsible and raised me and my 7 siblings in poverty. I personally would have preferred that they had remained childless and grown in themselves, with each other and financially before jumping to having kids. We are not thinking of kids as an expensive hobby wtf. We are seeing the decision to have kids as an important one and giving it the thoughtfulness and y’all are treating it with such levity wow.
Being a parent is a bigger hassle than all of life's other hassles combined. It's still worth it, IMO, but I certainly understand people who disagree.
At least u understand, and I thank you for that. I’m not against other people having kids, the only thing is that as long as they are (fully) ready for them. I chose not to have kids for that reason, I’m not mother material, I’m abt to be an adult and yet I can’t seem to grow up, causing me to be all goofy and funny to my friends. I knew since I was 16 that I wasn’t goi g to be a mom because I simply can’t handle children in the first place.
No offense but I think it’s easier for a man to say it was still worth it.
I agree with so many of the comments below, that the bias of this interview is that it is somehow a "problem" to choose not to have children, or to have them a bit later. There are hundreds of reasons why people choose to have children or not. To speak of this in broad brush-strokes, and to repeatedly place such a generalized assessment of "liberals and progressives" thinking a certain way... all of this really rubs me the wrong way and feels inaccurately representative. If people are overwhelmed by financial pressures, don't have reliable or desirable spouses, have very real anxieties over the grim future we face due to climate change, or scores of other completely viable reasons, then these are responsible and real considerations before simply leaping into having children, despite those concerns. It seems more mature and responsible to me that people are measuring their realistic ability to responsibly raise children, rather than make babies just because they are of child-bearing age. There is something in the tone of this interview that I find really unsettling, misrepresentative, and compartmentalizing.
@@whalesong8040 Exactly this, well put 👏🏼
YES! This!!!
Like are these authors being sponsored by Elon Musk?!? There's definitely something rotten in Denmark about the messages coming from this interview
I love children...healthcare in America is expensive and not all of it is accessible to everyone in many situations....it's VERY expensive to have children here...living in America it is not child friendly...schools are not safe, child activities are harder to find, and many people do not have the villages that help raise children...until these change for the better in America and around the world folks won't have children..
Folks around the world won't have children until their countries become child-friendly? LMAO Typical clueless American... The fertility rate for Africa in 2022 was 4.2 births per woman. FOUR children.
This generation was brought up by parents working in a corporate America that actively discriminates against people with children. It was a nightmare for my family. The stress was overwhelming. Working parents were agonized. Unbridled capitalism and patriarchy decided to add an extra HALF at the END of the day to increase production. No one did anything extra except grow an ulcer worrying about picking kids up. I decided not to go back 3 months after my daughter was born and had to write them a check for the 3 months salary. And had to start at the bottom when I DID return. Company health insurance SUCKED and cost a FORTUNE out of people’s salaries. Oppression of employees got worse every year in the 90s and 00s, with jobs flying overseas and my co-workers being “let go” silently daily. My colleagues told me that I shouldn’t have had a baby if I wasn’t ready. Incalculable numbers of abortions have been performed with corporate interests in mind-right-wing, pro-life-spouting companies. Profit over family has been the American way forever. Now they’re pissed the labor force is dwindling. And corporate profits over climate protection has left a world my daughter won’t bring another life into.
People think that “that they need to be financially secure and emotionally mature” because we’ve been so harmed by rocky economies, unpredictable events like 2008 housing crash and 2020 COVID, and by parents who weren’t financially stable and prepared and who were not emotionally mature or ready to raise another human being.
Also, regardless of climate change actually happening right now in front of us, we’ve heard for decades how overpopulated the planet is and how we don’t have the resources so a declining birth rate logically for survival of the human race seems like a good thing and the only reason I’ve EVER heard put forward for keeping a stable or increasing birth rate is for economics. So that the future generation will be large enough to support the aging population. I’m not having kids to drive the economic engine.
Because nobody can afford having kids…
@@kjjohnson24 When raising a child costs half a million dollars from birth to 18, rent/mortgage, student loans, healthcare expenses, having your save for retirement, etc., a tax credit doesn’t cut it. These women are delusional.
@@KittyComoMeow Spot on, Kitty. In a nutshell, "It's the economy, stupid."
They wanted to hem haw around it but it always comes back to people want to be able to afford a decent quality of life for their children devoid of poverty. That's how we should be thinking. Shame on these writers making it seem like people having standard for themselves is wrong
@@ecclairmayo4153THIS! I was like wow, what an interesting interview demonizing people who want to avoid/end child poverty-wth did I just watch?
@Sarah-re7cg - you just watched the latest propaganda in the news media that wants to guilt people (women in particular) to have children at all costs. It's now reached liberal media. It adjust not as blunt as JD Vance would say it, but its still the same message...dressed up.
Being a parent is very difficult. I often wonder how others manage. I love my children but I am constantly stressed, low on time and energy and busy doing housework in addition to my job related duties. Also it is very difficult to save after paying a mortgage, saving for college, saving for our 401ks and paying for one or two extra curricular activities for them. Before we had kids, it was so easy to save and to have a clear budget but with kids there are more unexpected expenses including school supplies uniforms etc. We are not close to family who can help us out. I think before having kids people need to prepare financially and have a job that allows for unexpected events that can happen.
That's quite a list you've added to your discretionary spending.
That's what am doing, am saving first even if I have to get married at such late of age.
@@analienfromouterspace You don't have to get married, to have a baby. Marriage has outlived its usefulness, given divorce rate. But given the nature of our tenuous employment market, I don't know how much someone has to save, to ensure you've enough money to raise a baby.
@@buzoff4642 Except in some places if you want to have kids and are not rich being married is the only smart choice - tax benefits are higher for married parents, IVF is refunded (even if partially) only for married couples... it feels coercive.
@@atropabelladonna "only for married couples" That is coercive. And discriminatory.
It’s also difficult to imagine bringing kids to a country where gun violence is the biggest cause of death in children. It’s difficult to imagine bringing kids to a world where so many children are being bombed, starved, brutalised, and we witness it, and demand an end to it, but our “governments” and their love of corporations that profit from weapons-refuse to listen to the majority of their constituents…. Young people are in so much pain, in despair, about the ongoing genocide in Palestine, and how their voices are being silenced. They know this is a sh….t show, and that climate catastrophe holds existential terror for the world, as mounting larger war and bloated war chests full of the toys of nuclear weapons - so bringing kids here, well. It may well feel like madness. Talk to them. Interesting how this good focused discussion also talks around but does not confront the largest issues.
Kids seem like a nightmare that never end.
Have you ever asked an older woman if she could do it all over again, would she still have children? I have. You would be surprised how many women say No, I don't think I would have children. This conversation gets framed as a "younger generation" problem, but it's not. Now that it is no longer taboo to treat this as a choice rather than a duty or a given, you have more people opting out. Just as many people would have opted out before if they had been given a choice and not been conditioned by society to do their "civic duty." Society doesn't care about people, it only cares about babies. Every day I walk by homeless encampments, I work in a hospital with a rehab center and I have parents with untreated mental health issues. No one wants to bring a kid into a world where large groups of people are having these experiences. No one wants their kid to have these experiences. Of course, they feel pressure to have a significant safety net, live in an expensive neighborhood with a great school, have a booming career, etc. It makes sense to make these considerations before having children, especially if you grew up experiencing the precariousness of the Great Recession, the increase in domestic t e r r or i s m, and the pandemic. How many of our parents were victims of mass layoffs and hiring freezes? How many of us experienced a school s h o o t i n g? How many of us were told we couldn't go in to work and sent a check for $1200? Younger generations are responding to their lived experiences and current circumstances, it would be selfish not to.
right! The decision is beyond the costs of having children.
It is never about the parents, it is about making more cannon fodder for the war machine.
No one mentions the necessity of a good support system and I don't only mean government programs, I mean a woman's family situation. There may be no grandma to help out due to death or illness, or grandma might have been such a rotten mother herself that you don't want a child anywhere near her. Maybe no siblings to help for the same reasons or for reasons of geographic distance. It's foolish to have kids if you have no support system, unless you are well-to-do and can afford nannies.
Nothing more selfish than wanting to add a replication of oneself - a mini-me - that one can control and mould into their own image. Livin' n' lovin' the Childfree life.
If more people are having not children because they generally do not want to be parents, then that is a good thing, period. With more choices come more options and opportunities to be alive and experience life. I admire my friends who've decided to parent, and those who remain childfree, because they're doing what is right for them and their families.
I never wanted children of my own. I’ve been in education over 25 years so contributed to the “village” so to speak. My brothers had kids and now my nieces/nephews have grown into lazy, and rude adults. All 5 of them totally suck. Helped validate my decision.
I also want to say god forbid there are people who are deeply thinking through bringing a kid into this world and would like to be ready emotionally and financially.
Right! These guest denigrate emotional maturity but without out it, your parenthood skills are likely to be inadequate, or worse.
As long as a child is left in state foster care long-term, why are we whining about not having kids?
The planet has too many people. Ms Berg obviously buys into the myth that more people is a good thing. She should go live in one of the extremely densely populated cities for a while, then explain why more is better.
Exactly! We must stop all immigration into the USA.
No, it is distribution problem. Only few jobs offer good pay, many cities that hasn't economically developed, housing supply vs demands, wage inflation compared to COLA, and access to affordable education and meaningful degrees such as STEM degrees.
Elon Must doesn't think so. He's got 12 kids by 3 women, and he wants more. But he's a billionaire, of course.
At 77, I’ve never regretted my decision not to have children. Coming from a toxic family I knew I didn’t have the tools to be a good parent. I wish more people would do a self examination of their ability to parent.
That’s a selfish reason not to have kids
@@c.f.okonta8815good grief, how is it selfish?
@@dorksplorer she decided she won’t have kids because of her experience with her family. She should have had kids and raised them differently from the negative experience she had growing up
@@c.f.okonta8815 she also said she did a self examination, and determined she didn't have the tools to be a good parent. That seems like someone trying to make sure a child isn't brought into a bad situation. That doesn't seem selfish to me, but people see situations differently.
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@@c.f.okonta8815they have no obligation to you, eff off
Whenever these discussions come up I always point to Japan: not enough kids to replace themselves, not enough immigration to make up for that. And then I went to Japan, then came home and read on the subject: surprise: quality of life is through the roof in Japan, they have more than enough money for retirement. Things aren't falling apart. Yes, the population will go down, but it doesn't mean they are "failing" or dying out. Or in any kind of danger. Conclusions: you don't need immigration to replace these numbers, and you don't need to panic if not enough babies are coming into the world to replace ourselves. Japan with a population of 50 million is not "death":, the U.S. with 250 million is not a problem. In fact, there could be many many advantages: less pollution of all kinds, more options in housing, better situation for the rest of nature. And maybe more appreciation of the kids who do arrive. Japan has days of celebration dedicated to children: bit of a hint here.
Being a parent today requires a hell of a lot more time and energy than in past decades. Parents use to send their kids to school, then out to play on their own, then dinner, bath and bed. Parents now have to spend much more time with and for their children. You almost have to give up on your own life, dreams and desires just to train another human on how to live successfully. This is why people rethink having children.
It's a social issue in US. Community is not considered important. Hillary was right about one thing: It takes a village. And we do NOT have villages. Look at seniors... many have nobody taking care of them. Medicare does not cover this; medical does but to limited degree. Many are put out to pasture in homes. Some just die on their owns in houses. We don't value individual lives... so why have more? My mother did not want kids but had two to look "normal." She was unfit, and nobody stepped in to help us-- her kids. I think some Asian countries and Hispanic ones, are much better to their kids than those in the Western world.
yep... as a kid raised by community I really feel for both parents and kids of today
As a Gen Xer, who decided not to have kids, man-oh-man was there pressure from all sides regarding having kids. I have been called selfish by my own family members. I‘ve had employers ask why I don‘t have kids (totally inappropriate AND a man would NEVER get asked this). Now that I am older, I find that there is ex post facto pressure from people in my generation … no grandkids??? How awful!
No one ever bothered to hear my considered, personal reasons: never had true role models as parents and was worried about passing that along; a kid born in a rich country has a HUGE carbon footprint and the world needs actually fewer births.
I remember that film Parenthood, where Keanu Reeves‘ character says that you need a license to drive a car or even go fishing but they‘ll let any asshole be a father. Maybe if people really thought about raising children who will benefit society - instead of just spewing our genes into the future - we might have a better, more well-adjusted society (a little polyanna, I admit, but still).
Maybe there is no pressure to have kids if you are a man but if are a woman, and you choose not to have children, there can be massive push-back.
So, calling people selfish and immature, AND expecting them to be good parents?? Yeah, Boomer, that's gonna fly...
I just say that if selfish people don't breed, good riddance to selfishness genes.
Even if the economics are not THE reason for declining birth rates, it still needs to be addressed. Lower birth rates with longer life expectancies actually helps with resources because the west hogs the world's resources. We would help other places on the globe by lowering our population.
I say every country gets on board. Law of diminishing returns. Besides, CO2 isn't the only environmental hazard. I love asking why the low CO2 environment of Delhi India is destroying the Taj Mahal with smog.
The notion that having children is “the bedrock” of caring about the human future is a JD Vance way of thinking. So many of us devote much of our lives to investing in our collective future - esp. teachers, as well as many medics, scientists, philanthropists, public servants of every kind, artists, etc. - who in directly touching hundreds & even thousands of lives are invested in the human future far beyond the personal fate of their own children or grands.
Exactly, I’m 52, childless and my work has touched hundreds of thousands of people across the world so far. Having the extra time and energy allows me to be an even better societal contributor, not less.
Also it's not like biologically childless people do not contrinbute to child rising. Aunts, uncles, family friends, etc.
I really appreciate this discussion. I am an elder millennial who has put off having children. I often hear the narrative of how “selfish”
I am for this. Meanwhile I spent most of my 20s in poverty, my previous marriage was an unhappy one, and I’ve spent the past decade trying to work through my depression and trauma. I didn’t have children because I felt that this would be an unhealthy environment to raise a child in. I wanted to not only be more financially stable, but also mentally stable before having one. I’m in my late 30s now and in a happy marriage but my time to have kids is running out. It’s sad to think that I may never have children, but I stand by my decision that it is better to not have them at all than to raise them in an unstable environment. This video made me realize I am not alone, nor am I “selfish” for feeling this way.
For years we have been beaten in the head " DONT HAVE CHILDREN IF YOU CANT AFFORD THEM" and all people have received the message.
I'm a single mom of 4. My girls(16-24) said they don't want kids. I ask why? They said watching struggle to raise them and I have no life. They said all I do is work, take care of them, cook, and go to sleep. I have no life.
That hurt but it's true.
I see there point of view.
But I always wanted to be a mom. And I often do feel that I missed raising my kids because I had to work. I had my mother, father, and brother always available for child care and support.
It's called rising cost of living. The massive chunks it takes out of health insurance.
It's a personal choice. People should understand if they look at any working mother's daily life. People want a life, not a thankless struggle. Society needs to look at how they keep making it a struggle for people. When I hear some state has refused federal funds for school lunch or healthcare, or their maternal death rate is ridiculous, I wonder how these same people are gonna convince anyone to have a baby.
Housing costs too much, too. It’s not like the 1950s when a couple could buy a house and have children with a stay at home.
I don’t think women would want to stay at home now regardless of finances.
Years back on a British chat board, "What do Americans want?"
I said, "The same as the rest of the planet. To spend the day producing something useful, eat supper at their own table, talk to friends and family, and go to bed fairly sure they'd be doing the same tomorrow."
That's a pretty low bar our globalize-damaged cultures have managed to blow apart - for sake of billionaire security.
Yeah the older Boomers pretty much ruined all that with their gluttony.
@@watamutha Gluttony? How so? 1 car, 1 TV, 1 phone, vacation was a trip to the beach, a blowout weekend was a barbecue with the neighbors, etc.
That'd be the day they'd blow a fortune flying their little 5 year old darling to Brussels to see Taylor Swift.
@@buzoff4642 Boomers own half the wealth in this country equal to all other generations currently alive combined. Yes young people have abundance of entertainment, but your generation has asset abundance and none of us will get any until you guys pass away. They voted it that way.
Sure, fertility rates are dropping, but the rate of gun violence is the number one cause of mortality for children. How is this not part of the discussion?
Abortions are a much bigger factor in the deletion of children.
As a childless woman, I found these two women incredibly polarizing with this “if liberals want to do this..” I am curious as to their so called research - how do they compare the middle class American child dilemma to a globally experienced phenomena- are they saying the majority of human beings are middle class liberals? LOL
Yes their narrow mindedness was astonishing.
How much research did they actually do, if they are not aware that the lowering of birth rates is global, even the birth rates in Africa are starting to decrease from what they have been.
A lot of us and our Moms got pregnant by accident. I was an accident, my daughter was an accident, my partner was an accident. If it ends up being a choice, it is much less likely to happen.
I go back and forth with wanting to have kids and being thankful I don’t have kids. Ultimately what it always comes back to, is that it would actually be selfish for me to have children just to fulfill some need for myself. Meanwhile the reality of having children would be bringing them into a world where they would struggle with climate, economy, access to opportunity etc. On top of that they wouldn’t get the best version of myself as a parent because I would be too stressed about bills, schooling, work life balance etc.
Bringing a child into the world just to satisfy an experience that you want to have individually, while ignoring all the other aspects of the world or society that child would enter into is the true “selfish”.
Of Course... Not Mentioned. "HAVING CHILDREN" Can ALSO Be a - VERY - SELFISH - CHOICE... -70SomethingGuy
I just point out that the nonexistent never asked anyone to rip them out of nonexistence. Nobody can have kids for the benefit of those kids.
I always thought so. You want a little homunculus of yourself you can dominate and control? That doesn't seem cool to me.
The reasons for young women not wanting to have children are many: high childcare costs and not good childcare availability; not enough time left for children and parents relationship with full time work etc...One of my daughter is one facing these realities.
If I had to decide today to have children or not the thing that would scare me off are the reports of all the children who are affected by autism, plastics on the brain, lead in the drinking water, lower intelligence caused by innumerable factors, partners who don't want them, good education only for the wealthiest, likewise all health care and childcare, school vouchers, banned books, no secure jobs or pensions, housing insecurity climate change .... who would be able to bring children into the world today who had an ounce of ethics with regard to them? Are they puppies to love for awhile? Then what? Whats in it for them?
Good news is all that pollution is also making people infertile so the problem is solving itself /s
Looking around at the state if the world, wars, climate crisis, unfettered greed, very possible nuclear war on the cards, I'd advise young people not to have children, sadly. The future looks bleaker by the day for this planet and all living beings inhabiting it. Humans are not on a good path if their own doing, live your lives younger people, but unfortunately, having children may be a very bad decision on so many levels. Is it even fair to bring a child into this madness of a world now, I think not.
There are too many of us.
I taught high school. The teens know they are completely effed for life. They know that there's no hope
I had a daughter when i was 16. I wanted her and raised her. Her father was a lousy partner and parent...it was like having 2 children to care for, even though he was older. I made sure to stay on the pill, as I was aware of how the vicious cycle of poverty could affect another child.
Why reproduce with a child?
I'm 44. I can't afford a house and can barely figure out how to live life or afford to take care of myself, much less worry about finding a relationship or having kids.
Why would anyone want to have a kid when it is so economically impossible to do so?
The quality of life you can have without paying for childcare and school and nappies is so much better.
I'd rather live my life out of poverty, debt-free and be the fun aunt that spoils the children around her.
I see value in children in the world.
I don't just under the older generations obsession with continuing the family line.
As someone who is still dealing with aftermath of an abusive childhood, i think having children is a roll of the 🎲. You never know what your going to expect so its just best not to put yourself in that situation.
Have you ever been on an airplane with a child nearby? Nuff said.
Gen-X and child-FREE by choice, which is different from childLESS. I don't feel the need to state all the reasons, only that it's my choice to make.
Make my mortgage affordable too. It's half of my income.
I am single and childless (and a cat lady) and none of these factors really played a large part in my decision not to have children, I knew in high school that I did not want to parent children. I enjoy spending time with children, encouraging their curiosity and sense of fun, but parenting them is a whole different universe. I was born into a large catholic family where my parents had children because that is what was expected. Also, birth control at that time was for all practical purposes unavailable. However, my parents thought their duty ended with feeding, clothing, and making sure you behaved in public. A low bar if you ask me.
The is still a lot of social pressure for people to marry, and once married to have children. (I mean many people will ask the married couples at their wedding reception-"when are you going to start a family?" Crazy social pressure. Add to that, witnessing so many couples having children solely because they thought that was what you were supposed to do, and these people had absolutely no skills and sometimes no interest in learning those skills to be effective parents...I won't fault any one from deciding not to have children.
Is it perhaps, that when you ask these questions in your survey the respondents are searching for viable and socially acceptable answers to the question, rather than really searching out their true feelings? Parenting children, if you want to do it well, is very hard work, strife with stress and anxiety, and in a world where parents aren't given a whole lot of support (versus the era that believed 'it takes a village' and multigenerations lived with or near each other) and there are such varying ideas of what 'doing it well' means. For example, far-right Christian values versus more progressive and social activism type of parents. Are you that surprised that Millennials and Gen-Zers are reluctant to commit to parenting roles?
The bar for being a parent should be high. Society depends on parents to do as good a job as they can manage. My experience working in retail, and in a public library in conservative Christian Idaho is that Christians are returning to having large families.
People not having children also support those who do, by paying taxes and voting for representatives in our government that support programs like childcare for all and healthcare for all, and educational programs that get children the educations and training they need - Because we understand that society as a whole is better if these programs are in place to prepare the next generation for their role in society.
I disagree with the position these two women make - those narratives are important - although we could do a better a job of making them discussions and not just social media narratives. They are important because they get people to stop and really think about if, and why they want to have children, and are they ready for the challenges that decision to have children will put in front of them. Maybe what needs to change is the way these narratives are explored among the populace, rather than suggesting the narratives themselves are the problem. I do agree that those conversations with oneself, within one's peer group and within romantic relationships does need to happen more often and in a safe nonconfrontational manner.
Child-free zones is because so many present-day families are lacking in teaching their children proper social behaviors and good manners. Making their children often times a nuisance and a distraction or causing staff additional burdens. More recent generations have not adopted the 'it takes a village' philosophy on board and become combative and irate if you even speak to or correct their child in the simplest of ways (a very isolationist attitude regarding their child). There are over 8 billion people on the planet. I don't think it is a bad thing if the worldwide population declines, as long as a percentage of each generation continues to choose to have children. Human beings are the largest predator population on the planet after all - returning the planet ecosystem to some balance is imperative.
This idea that young people are not having kids is because they are selfish, is just bs! If people are not having kids, why is it selfish, when they are not hurting anyone. It is individual choice whether they want to have kids or not. 😂
I just say if it is selfish to not have children, praise the altruism of Instagram mommy bloggers and baby trappers.
"Kids are an expensive hobby"... that made me lol. I think that's a perfectly healthy attitude and I salute anyone who takes on the challenge and commitment. At least it's a rational decision.
The tragedy is when women don't have a choice due to circumstances or lack of education. Lots of men are perfectly happy competing for how many offspring they can put out there, treating women and kids like trophies. The best I can hope is that the kids grow up to be progressives, hating their fathers, as is tradition.
I heard someone said that having a child is like having your heart outside out of your body. The american climate is too toxic and too unpredictable. I imagined that i would lose sleep, worrying every day when my child is out. You're not guaranteed your partner will raised the child with you. Having a child is a path straight to poverty. Too many negative and unpredictable variables