I must say… the sheer amount of knowledge contained within this video and the way you have presented it is absolutely incredible and very helpful. Sometimes videos are either extremely technical to the point where you lose track, or it’s so simple you don’t gain much information. The balance you have here is perfect. Thank you.
A lovely well presented and knowledgable video. As a sound engineer for over 47 years and still, in retirement, using my much loved Genelec monitors bought back in 1995 - I can assure you all, as said here, the room maketh the loudspeaker. They have sounded so different as they've moved from studio to studio and room to room.
Nice video and a lot of helpful suggestions for audio beginners and for anyone who hasn't really given much thought to speaker setup. Not anything new to me but I am a 50+ year audiophile. :) The only thing I would add is for audiophiles to experiment with the speaker width and speaker toe-in. Widely spaced speaker positioning will usually require more toe-in for optimal sound whereas more closely spaced speaker positioning will usually require less. This will also depend on the dispersion of your midrange/tweeters. If an audiophile wants super focused imaging and a narrower, more focused soundstage, then more toe-in is usually the answer. Conversely, with the tweeters aimed outside your ears and tending more towards straight ahead will give you airier but less focused imaging and soundstaging. By the way, Tarun, the toe-in of your left speaker (looking at your fireplace) is quite a bit less than your right speaker. Way more cabinet wall is visible. :)
Hi James, thank you sharing you experience and knowledge. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment on the video. I think it must be due to the camera angle or lighting as both speakers are toed in the same. Good to hear from you.
Thank you Tarun, for a wonderful and simple explanation. How refreshing compared to the demeaning, rude, arrogant talk I received during my 15 min consultation with a notorious acoustic engineer who sells panels and tells me unless I spend $25.000 to treat my already treated(carpets everywhere, thick curtains, cloth furniture, solid stereo image) apartment, I need to spend that much because everything is horrible about my set up without asking one question. Lots of quacks out there so all of you beware.
This is REALLY good and important info to get best fidelity - that you have provided. My old Infinity Quantum 2's came with detailed instructions describing, just these same steps you specified. One more thing that really helps is to have open space behind the sound stage beyond the back of the listener so the sounds are not reflected back at the listener, like in a concert hall, if possible. Infinities instructions also described the effects of the corner of a room reinforcing lows making bass louder. Infinity described moving the speakers to different positions and listening to the result, with some trial an error. When using a sub it is important to be able to adjust the phase while the listener is listening within the sweet spot so the bass does not cancel with the main speakers, doing this will find to actually turn down the sub some. These things really have profound affects, just as you say - Really helpful instructions! I look forward to checking our your other stuff!
Thanks, that was very comprehensive and easy to understand. I noticed that, in comparison with your more recent videos, your own sound quality is rather woody here, so you have clearly made worthwhile improvements in that area over the years. I remember hearing the ProAc Response 1 in a hifi shop about thirty years ago and liking them very much, so not surprised you still like yours.
I followed your minimum 85 cm advice for the 5 millisecond delay of first reflected sound... and it worked! THANK YOU By far the best video on speaker set up.
Great video. I have just discovered your channel and have learned so much useful advice from this and some of your other videos over the last week. I very much appreciate your clear concise delivery with humble demeanour. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for the very practical review! I like the 3 ‘ rule for slowing down reflections to >5m sec.... I tried it and it worked just fine! More 3 dimensionality and more center fill.
Wonderful, full of facts. I'm a newbie to both hifi and this channel, enjoying both :-). In case you will be considering Q&A type of videos: 1.) Does fire (heat) affect the sound in your room? It's pretty close to the speakers. 2.) There does not seem to be any visible treatment in your room, how come? 3.) With the speakers 90cm above the floor, sitting 2m from them, assuming your ear is at the same height as your tweater. The trajectory of the sound reflected off the floor is 2,71M, vs 2m direct path. Way below 5ms difference, right? You probably have a carpet there, just saying 90cm does not seem to be enough in all cases.
I don't think many realize how well-organized and presented this is. You condensed a tremendous amount of useful information in a very digestible and engaging package and it seemed effortless. Thank you
i recently learned that, in some situations, those wall reflections and the pronounced bass they cause can be used as an advantage. as i have just fixed my girls old hifi reciever and put it in her room, we did test a couple of speakers - and settled on a pair of tiny bookshelf units (think 'JBL control one') i never thought much about these particular speakers as they were pretty cheap and always lacking in the low end when on their own ... so they spent the last 5 years tucked away in a closet... but now we put them on a shelf, litterally with their backs agains the wall ... and boy did they start to go low all of a sudden. it's like we found the combination of amp, speakers and positioning that works very good in this room ... finding a good match is always interesting to witness when it happens ...
Thank you for this! Based on your information, I repositioned my Klipsch RP600M's a bit, and got significant improvement. All at no cost. They were about 25cm too close to the rear wall, and 'tightened up' when moved out to your suggested position. It really helps having a second person moving the speakers while the shot-caller stays in the prime listening spot.
Oh man, can't thank you enough for the tip at 15:49 . I pulled my Amphion Helium 520 floorstanding speakers just a bit more (10 cm or so) off from the side wall, which made a huge difference for the better in stereo image. Now my triangle ain't anymore that correct, but this compromise is so much better. At last I'm hearing the huge open crisp clear sound I heard at the dealer, many years ago! I thought it was my amplifier/dac, but no, it's acoustics! I reckon your tip just saved me a lot of money! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Thanks, now I'll be spending the next 3 hours moving my speakers around. Great advice. I use a laser tape that makes checking symetry easier than a metal tape.
Great job. Thumb up. Thank you. (Minor note: I believe it is "Toeing" not "Towing" when talking about the angle of the speakers--unless you are talking about BIG speakers you tow behind a truck. Then you really are towing speakers.)
Well explained, I think speaker placement is seriously undervalued, I’ve owned B&W and Thiels in the past and they could sound terrible if not set up correctly in a given room. However, after being an avid ‘audiophile’ for over 30 years, I now mainly listen using a decent set of open back headphones, it solves an awful lot of problems that you talk about in this video. However, I honestly believe that the vast majority of people are not hearing what their system is truly capable of due to ignorance of speaker placement. I had a friend who had a set of Wilson’s in a room that is about 20ft x 11ft, these speakers cost in excess of £15K, I took a pair of active JBL LSR 305’s to his house, set them up via a pre/ dac costing around £350 and his jaw dropped, this system only costs around £800 and it sounded as good, if not better (in his room) than his Wilson’s did. Even his wife could not believe that what I had set up did not cost thousands when she heard it. Just goes to show, price does not always equate to performance in hifi, the thing most people overlook is the interaction of said components within their listening room! There is also a tendency for ‘audiophiles’ to spend more because they are told it’s an ‘audiophile grade’ component, this is mainly nonsense after a certain point, because after a certain point you are no longer paying for electronic design, rather you are paying for over engineering, heaving case work and / or high quality veneers etc, none of that adds much to fundamental performance of a well designed component in terms of electronics, you are basically paying for looks not performance at that point. Always remember, if you truly enjoy music, you will enjoy it regardless of what it is played on, because it’s the music that stirs the soul, not the electronic components that play it, everyone sounds different, there are many different guitars and many different pianos and they all have different presentations but the music is still recognisable and enjoyable no matter what instrument it is played on.
Thank you for watching and sharing your experiences Paul. I really enjoyed reading about them. I suspect you are probably right, at some point it becomes about audio jewellery. I have never been in the position to audition top tier equipment in my home. The most expensive single item I auditioned at home was a Linn Kilmax DAC at £12,000. It sounded great but then it should at that price. I have heard some truly great high end systems costing £100,000+ over the years which were set up well and others systems at the same price that sounded awful due to poor set up. Thanks again 😊👍
Great channel, not sure if someone else has mentioned it but in terms of the front wall and small rooms it’s almost always better to position you speakers as close to the wall as possible to help with SBIR issues. The peaks and dips caused by sbir can be severe and a unless you can get the speakers more than 3m away from the wall (who can do that!) you are going to have a very low cancellation notch which is going to be impossible to deal with using any practical treatment and can cause 6db swings. At 85cm you are at least over 100 hz but moving close to the wall will make it even more manageable. This is the reason studio speakers are soffit mounted and manufacturers like genelic actually outline it in their manuals no more than 1m from the front wall and actually advocate 5cm’s if possible! It’s also worth not having your speakers at exactly the same distance from the side walls to the front wall and i believe a ratio of 1:3 is recommended.
Good content...well done. One point if I may as a speaker designer...it is not true to generalise that tweeters are more directional. The reverse can be true. It depends on the frequency wavelength compared to driver size. Polar response matching of units as a consideration in crossover design is important. Tweeters can have smooth polar response with perhaps just 5dB drop off above 10khz to 10 degrees off axis but much less drop off below 10khz. Why? Because directivity kicks in causing drivers to beam on axis only once the wavelength of the frequency approaches driver diameter. Once at this point off axis sound drops off dramatically. A tweeter will generally have a greater dispersion than a midrange at say 2khz for example. Stereo image stability and phase response can both be affected by directivity and polar response so the job of the design engineer is to ensure that matching drive units results in smooth polar response at crossover...ie no waist in response by crossing over too high for the larger drive unit. Some designs get this badly wrong and no amount of room positioning can make up for their poor off axis performance. They need to be listened to on axis and can have a small sweet spot so need lots of toe in. Conversley you want to limit off axis response much past 30 degrees or more to limit side wall reflections. Speakers that have a high direct to indirect room power response at the listening position will sound more accurate and have better tonal detail and imaging. Its a balancing act. Too much indirect sound at the listening spot destroys this unless lots of room treatment is employed. Too much directivity gives rise to phase shift and stereo image instability off axis. These are just a few reasons more why some speakers will sound better than others in some rooms or listening closer to them or further away. Its about the room and the design of the speaker. From roughly 300 hz and under its all about the room.
Hi Paul, thank you for sharing your professional knowledge and experience. I knew about maximum diffraction when wavelength = aperture as this is case for all waves (light, water, etc.). Don’t know much about polar response, is that something to do with comb filtering?
Thanks a lot for this video. I am having some difficulty placing my AP Tempo 6s in my room (19sqm). Now i know that symmetry is so important as well as why the speakers shoud be placed a certain distance from the walls. I'm gonna try your tips now and see how they affect the sound. Sub!
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thank you for taking the time to reply. I tried that yesterday with the 80cm from walls formula. Much to my wife dislike and huge row they are back nice and neat against the wall. Something to be said for the single life.
Really interesting topic this. I'd never consider myself a true audiophile, but I've worked selling audio gear for a couple of different shops, worked as an audio tech installing systems in cinema auditoriums, and have spent 30 years acquiring and repairing and using stereo equipment of all shapes, sizes, and quality levels. I've also been to over 3000 live gigs, and have assisted in bands rigs setups and worked exclusively with one band on tour for a time. After all that you'd hope I had some idea about what good sound is. As you say, the room is without a doubt the singular most important factor in achieving good quality audio. The best speakers in the world are going to sound rubbish in a small bedroom, and some very modest gear can sound quite amazing in a properly set up studio. You certainly covered this well, talking about the rooms used at hifi shows for demonstrations. Given that scenario, I've sometimes used an interesting tactic, and it's one that sometimes raises eyebrows. Now as an audio and music enthusiast such as I am, many others who are the same find my taste in music a bit questionable. I am unashamedly a die-hard metalhead. And not just the old stuff. I'm talking Cannibal Corpse, Testament, Slayer, At The Gates, Carcass, Vader, and so on. Some fairly brutal stuff. Bands not necessarily known for finesse and detail in their recordings. Mostly audiophiles will choose especially good recordings of much gentler music for their demonstrations - and whilst it's sensible to choose recordings you're familiar with, I think smooth jazz and acoustic recordings aren't really a test for the equipment. Considering the flagships are being shown off in a pretty acoustically unfriendly environment, why not push that unfriendliness to its absolute limit and really give them a black eye. That's where the brutal metal comes in. The true test of a pair of speakers is not smooth jazz at loungeroom conversation levels in the sound booth at the hifi store. The way to really test them is in that horrible little room at the hifi show, with Cannibal Corpse or similar at 110dB. Find their limitations. How do they deal with that complexity and walloping noise? Can you still hear the singer? Or is he lost in the jack-hammering double kick bass drums and wailing distorting guitars? The ones that sound the least awful under those circumstances are the ones to buy. Just about anyone can build speakers that sound lovely playing Diana Krall at lower levels. Getting them to sound clear and detailed at 110dB with Cannibal Corpse is much more difficult. That's your test. It's not about finding the ones that sound the best, it's about finding the ones that sound the least worst when really pushed. Now go forth and smash some windows. Once you have developed a taste for that then you're truly an audiophile! Lol.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks for reading. I really enjoy your videos - you have great knowledge, and convey it in a really clear way. So thank YOU for that. Your knowledge of higher end equipment is certainly far better than mine, I'm learning a lot listening to you. I probably should have qualified my comments by mentioning what gear I use myself. My own loungeroom has been a bit of an experimentation room over the years, with all sorts of different gear coming and going. But I do seem to have settled on the setup I have now. I have a pair of hand built speakers we call the monoliths (they're large and black), and they are transmission lines loosely based on the daline design, but with separate tweeter enclosures and a bit of my own modification with measurements and volumes etc. Vifa 8"mid-bass drivers and Scan-Speak tweeters. They were meant to be prototypes, proof of concept, but they ended up sounding so good I never built the "proper" ones, I just played with the baffling for a bit, got it pretty good, sealed them up and painted them. No sub-woofer required, they can get down pretty deep when it's in the original recording. They are bi-amped with a pair of Auditec Murray twin mono 200 watt power amps (these were a leftover from my cinema auditorium days - hand built things by a local guy here named Cecil Murray, bulletproof things, really punchy sound, well designed, they have excellent passive cooling capacity so can take a lot of punishment), and an active crossover built from kits available from an electronics supplier here in Australia (Altronics). The ICs are a bit noisy in the kits and buzz a little bit, but it doesn't really impede on the music so I've left upgrading them for a day when I'm really bored. I'm currently running a tweaked NAD 1020 preamp - I've certainly run fancier valve preamps in years gone by, but I really like the way the NAD phono stage sounds in this preamp so I'm staying with it for now. Various components have been renewed and/or upgraded in the 1020 so it sounds pretty good and doesn't suffer from any of the downfalls that NAD gear of that vintage usually does. My CD player is a very run-of-the-mill NAD unit currently, I've run Yamaha too, and had one of those ChineseYaqin valve things for a while (sounded fine but ye gods are they ugly), and my main turntable is a Technics SL-1200 with a remote Rega arm and a Shure V15 mk iii with a JICO SAS stylus. Certainly not the most high end gear by any stretch, but we love it. The monoliths have a really transparent sound (a characteristic of TLs, I know), which can be good and bad. They will certainly expose a sub-standard recording. The amps and speakers will take a lot of punishment without falling over, and the sound is clear and neutral at higher SPLs, when those electrons are really flowing! I'd like to upgrade the CD player at some point, go to some kind of setup with a separate DAC and carriage unit so I can play around with different DACs and just replace the carriage unit easily when it dies (as they all eventually do). All in good time. I've also got a PC plugged in to the NAD 1020 for digital files, not that I have a huge amount. I do like my vinyl, it's my preferred medium despite it's shortcomings. Congratulations on reaching the end of my somewhat trumpet blowing essay. Keep 'em spinning. :-)
Hi woopimagpie, I like that you have been brave and knowledgeable enough to mod your equipment and try your hand at building speakers. I can only imagine how hard it is to build a pair of transmission lines and get them right. I have a pair of transmission line Celestion 300. Great bass extension. Sound like you know exactly what you are doing and what you want from your system. That is most of the battle won in my opinion. Thank you for supporting my little channel 😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 To be honest I expected much more trial and error when building the speakers. Nobody was more surprised than me that I appeared to have gotten it pretty right with my first attempt. I did a lot of reading and research and tried to understand the theory of it all as best I could, it certainly seemed as though I'd gotten a handle on it when they turned out well. The endless graphs and charts and sketches seemed to have paid off. I have to admit, I did have a bit of practice with an earlier pair of speakers I owned. They began life as a stock pair of Richter Merlins, an early ported enclosure model by a now pretty well known Australian speaker manufacturer. By the time I was done with them I had built new stands, upgraded the crossovers and internal wiring, replaced the internal padding with sonex acoustic foam, added some extra bracing, changed the tweeters and then finally bi-amped them. By then they had reached the end of their development so it was time for something new. Some auditions of new speakers taught me that the sound I was desiring was out of my price range, and a casual conversation over a beer with an audio engineer friend and workmate turned into an exercise in speaker building, with the monoliths as the result. I had some help along the way, it wasn't entirely me. My audio engineer friend conferred with the theory side of things, and my cabinet maker brother-in-law assisted with cutting the timber and assembly of the boxes. This was all back in 2002 so I've had them a while now, and they still sound great. Like you say, great bass extension, and very natural sounding. I love breaking out the soldering iron and rolling my sleeves up, I've rescued and repaired loads of old amplifiers over the years, with mixed results. Some just require a component or two to be replaced, some require a total rebuild which invariably leaves me wondering why I started in the first place. Spending $200 in parts on an amp that's worth $150 on the second-hand market is a venture I've completed more than once! It's very satisfying to hear the old girls working again though - in those situations I take that as my payment, and sometimes even press them into service as part of the bedroom or garage stereos for a time. It's great fun, if nothing else. I've donated a few to friends and family (my aforementioned brother-in-law also has a stereo entirely supplied and set up by me!) Comparing how they all look and sound, exploring their strengths and weaknesses, and discovering how some components really work well together (and some not at all) is something I find really interesting, much like your good self. Cheers.
This is not a joke, nor am I affiliated in any way to Tarun. I spent months positioning my ATC SCM40s, until I had found "the place" by ear. I haven't felt any urge to move them from then on. I ran across a reference to this vid in a forum, looked at my speakers and thought "Hmm, that might be quite close to what he recommends - funny." Took out my yardstick and measured EXACTLY 82.5 cm both sides from the back wall. It's crazy.
Thank you for such a well structured and pitched commentary on speaker placement. I am left to work out how (in time) I will be placing my WharfEdale w60 speakers in an àtic room (ceiling inclination 30 degrees) with a wall distance of 225 cm and and 3,5 m to the listening spot, all concrete 😬
All true! In terms of the physics I did at Uni ... Thanks for the usefull well informed, well presented usefull material Tarun. Interesting how I've always dabbled in this unconciously from my first cheap radio as a kid, putting the speakers in corners to get more boom out of them
Good video, detailed gives people a good basis on how to get the best out of your system. Most people don't realize how much a room can affect the sound of your speakers. I found it interesting that you talked about Dr.Floyd Toole. He did amazing work in acoustics and psycho acoustics. I picked speakers based on his work with Harmon audio. I know he worked on developing the Intermezzo line of speakers. I chose the trickle down line the interlude series, same driver technology and I have been very happy with them for 17 years now. Enjoyed watching and thanks
Hi Donald, Dr T is a bit of a pioneer in this industry. I am not surprised that you are extremely happy with any speaker that he was involved in developing. Thank you for sharing.
Really good insights as usual. I fully agree with your speaker decoupling comment, having tested myself that suspended floor can kill the sound of floorstanders. I experimented with foam pads but they dull the sound a lot. Isocoustics devices was the best solution by far, not cheap though. Spikes on concerte: 100 %!. I am just a little confused about the distance from the tweeter to the back wall of 85 cm. The tweeter does not emit backwards so why is it important. I understand the first order reflection from the walls, floor and ceiling but they are all propagating forward towards the listener. So unless you have open baffle, why do you care about a backward reflection? In my room I can not conserve symmetry unfortunately for domestic reasons, the room is 7m by 6m. One of my concept 40 speakers is placed 87cm from the corner side wall and 90 cm from the back wall (close to your specs and I agree that the soundstage is better than when they are closer to the back wall even though I dont understand why). The speakers are 2m apart and I listen 2.2m away. So obviously I have reflection from one side wall and not the other. Luckily it is a window and I have heavy curtains on it and frankly I do not perceive a dissymmetry in the soundstage. I have tried to invert the amplifier left right to see how a song is perceived but it is inconclusive. Is it always better to maximise the direct sound and place speakers as far as possible from side walls or can the reflections from a highly dispersive speaker also enhance some aspects of the sound providing the first reflection points are dealt with?. This post is too long...
The room and set up are very important. Got a humble yet good sounding system (Clearaudio Concept MC, Lehmannaudio Decade, Synthesis Nimis and Wilson Watt Puppies (DIY)). Went to some high end shows and results regarding price of the gear is always mixed. Fun fact: my Dali Menuets on stands sounded boomy in my 6x4m living compared to my Wilsons do...both on the very same tiled carpeted floor. Still an enigma to me. Toeing in an raking depends on first reflection points as well, not just the speaker. Symmetry is your starting point but if you have to move just one speaker so be it. About dampening, I often hear the opposite and use spikes to get rid instead of isolating (prolong) unwanted vibrations quicker. If somebody starts out with: I am an engineer (so I know what I am talking about) makes me either cringe or giggle.
Really informative video, thanks. Im a bit limited in my space, I have a dining table right in front of the speakers like yuor friend, and the maximum I can move the speakers from the wall is 65cms. Ive towed the speakers out very slightly to reduce the bright sound I was getting and have put a fairly thick table cloth on the table. Basically dont be afraid to experiment !
Thanks again, Tarun, for an informative video. I love hearing someone dealing with facts and science rather than trying to convince me I should just buy into everything they say just because they are able to afford really expensive gear. I understand the need for separation of your speakers from the walls. However. because of limitations of my room layout, the best distance I can get from my walls behind the speakers is only 1 foot. Is there anything I can do to compensate for this limitation? By the way, my speakers are older B&W 601s3's, if that makes any difference. I don't really have a lot of money to spend to replace them, so that is not really an option. Thanks to anyone who cares to leave a helpful comment
I have my speakers placed with equal distance to one of my room corners. This could be worth a try. I learned about it in a Hifi shop. Their listening room is square. I have enjoyed this setup for 20 years. My speakers were Dali Grand Diva, Dali Euphonia MS4, and now Dali Epicon.
Hello British AF, I have to admit, that's it refreshing to watch / listen to someone who isn't just talking about specs or something that can be sold. I have a question if I may which I seem hard to answer, I recently got a pair of bookshelf speakers that are front ported when it comes to the bass and I have problems positioning them in my new apartment. As front ported speakers don't use the wall the spread out the bass, does it matter on how we position them then? The sound is flat at where the couch is, but actually decent at the back. The room being 5m long and no dining table etc in front besides a carpet. Thought I would reach out to you and see what you thought.
Hi Boo, coincidentally I covered some of this is my video last week. I will provide the link. The location of the port doesn’t have much bearing on where a speaker should be located. It is more to do with the overall design. Bass will not be even in your room as it manifests itself as areas of low and high pressure. It is important to get the speaker position right and your location to the speakers so that you sit in an area of the room where the bass is fairly even. Adding subwoofers (two small ones are better than one big one) are a way of trying to even out the bass response in the room as you move from 2 bass producing speakers (2 main speakers) to 4 bass producing speakers (2 main speakers + 2 subs). DSP is also a good solution for reducing low frequency peaks but none of these can be an alternative to good speaker positioning 😊👍 th-cam.com/video/mjliP25NiW4/w-d-xo.html
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Good morning, I ended up stalking a few of your videos. As your video suggested, I did a mini test (before my wife came home to see it/raise her eyebrows) to see what I could do and if pulling them more off the wall even more would help. Wow, it totally did. I found myself hearing more detail in the treble and mid and with front ported, I didn't think it would effect it so much (they were already about 35cm off). - The bass didn't change much and it's been my plan to get a decent sub to give it a boost. I told my wife I was going to re-do the whole layout of the living room (as to mask a bit of the purpose of pulling the speakers so much off the wall). I've been an HiFi / Audiophile lets say since the age of 16 (that's 25 years ago). Actually I would say I like good sound, I am not just about the gear. But what I think is most disappointing about the HiFi industry is the majority of sales people. Many don't really care as long as you are buying gear. We spend fortunes on all this gear for people to not have it setup right. For example, I recently got a pair of speaker stands (directly from Atacama) to go with these new speakers, but the amount of rubbish I was fed by sales people (about the size) made me call up Atacama directly and say, "Hey, this is what they are telling me, it feels wrong. what do you think?" To the extent they were well off that Dennis there laughed his head off and said they were well off and the stands alone are not about 27 kilos with filling (not light like the 7kgs suggested by the salesman). All this this made me miss Harrow Audio when I was living the UK. Got my a new amp arriving on Monday! (Yamaha a-s2100). - Can't wait! Then a bass unit is my next port of call (pun intended I guess). Sorry for the verbal diarrhea, just one passionate rant to someone who gets it. :)
@@booradley3146 thank you Boo. I totally get it! That was one of the primary reasons I started this channel. A way to share useful information. It works both ways, I learn from my audience and hopefully they sometimes learn something from me. Thank you for watching and sharing your experiences. I really enjoyed reading about them 😊👍
Hi all tweeks I have done , my room has wooden floors the most significant tweek was heavy concrete pavers under the speakers amazing soundstage deep and defined infact pinpoint
Great video. You mention the room, but don’t really get into acoustic treatment. It’s not really if you need acoustic treatment but how much. I hear echo in your room. It’s not your mic. I would love to see a video of before and after installing several acoustic panels (GIK, or whoever).
Chem_E_Mark Mark, it is the mic I am afraid. If I could get the wife to accept the panelling I would have it but trust me it sounds pretty good in a midfield listening setup. 70% of good acoustics is down to speaker positioning IMHO.
acoustic treatment makes such a big difference i have panels and bass traps from acoustic fields in my studio and some dsp tunning , i only have the focal alpha 65s but the room sounds amazing (better than studios i have been in with $$$ pound speakers and amps) , put the same speakers in my living room and they sound like crap (similar size room ) So my next project is taking the fire place down and building a fake wall thats going to be a big bass trap , i will flush mount the tv and fake fire then make the art canvas on the walls into fiberglass absorbion panels , lastly the ceiling will be a full diffusion panel. The goal is to have the room looking aesthetically pleasing and to most people they wont realize its acoustically treated
I've just stumbled across your channel and am very impressed so far. I am in the process of putting together a decent hifi (perhaps £6kish all in) but have absolutely no room for floor standing speakers. I've been watching as many YT vids about speaker placement as I can but not one has discussed wall mounting speakers. I suspect that this is because it is far from ideal placement wise (especially given the 85cm you talk about in this vid) so I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this and anything that can be done to improve things. I imagine that there must be a considerable amount of folks in my position living in period flats with awkward room layouts a who have similar issues
Excellent video. Thank you for the clear concise explanations. I do gave a dilemma in my listening as percect symmetry is nearly impossible. Woyjd you be able to offer advice for those of us that can't maintain symmetry with the side walls? Am I best to try a diagonal set up in my situation?
I’m not an ‘audio file’. I’ve spent my life plonking the speakers on the carpet where they are out the way ,as have my family and friends. The notion that there was more to it never entered my head. Only since TH-cam have I had access to knowledgeable people in specific fields. Ive upgraded my speakers, repositioned them and I’m off to buy sound absorbing panels. It’s all good fun, thank you.
Tarun, excellent video, well explained! There are some minor things I would like to add. One: In rooms with critical (wooden) floors that tend to resonate a lot, it sometimes is helpful to spike the speaker stands to slate plates, which have an excellent absorption capability. Between those plates and the wooden floor you can use the damping material you mentioned. Two: not in all rooms is the sweet spot the triangular positioning between the loudspeakers. Sometimes it's worth to start listening at the same distance your loudspeakers are apart and then move in towards the speakers. You will notice the sweet spot at once. The situation in my listening room (which is oddly shaped) is such that my dealer came in with his Dynaudio measuring equipment and was surprised to find my listening chair very close to the speakers (Monitor speakers about 1,80m apart, my ears about 1 m away....). After he had measured the room resonances for quite a while he came to the conclusion that this was indeed the "sweetest" spot of the entire room. Tying in the speakers is inevitable but not too much. A final word: I have been into HiFi for about 40 years now, have dealt with audiophiles a lot and am still a big fan of small speakers....;o)....and liked the ProAc Tablette 50 a lot....
Very helpful video thanks, I'm extremely limited in that my listening room is my bedroom due to disability, so I have very little scope for experimenting, I've got an excellent sound quality-wise across the spectrum (to my ears anyway, bass is weighty, precise and well controlled, treble very clear but not harsh, vocals in particular very good) but soundstage is noticeably lacking due to speaker placement and the elephant...err...bed in the room! I think you've given me a few areas where I can play around somewhat though and try to eek a bit more out of it :)
Nice one Tarun. I think that was a pretty good job at explaining something that can be imensely complicated. Obviously the room affects the sound but speaker placement can make a big difference on sound. I think you covered the important stuff in a way non techies would understand. Unfortunately most people simply shove the speakers in the corner or against the wall because 'more bass is better' right?. I do think that a lot of todays bass heavy, overly compressed music is partly to blame for this. Possibly a topic for future discussion?
first time listener...found your video very interesting and informative and i am now a subscriber to your channel. if i may ask, is that your "listening" room? i have some questions based on some observations. i am not by any means an "audiophile" in terms of expertise and knowledge of sound and equipment so please dont take this as my being critical of your information. let me know if i can send you the questions...thank you
do you get any reverb from the glass shelves behind the right speaker? what about the large piece of furniture on the left which is higher then the one on the right. just curious....thank you!
These suggestings are very insightful and sound simple, yet in my living room few of them are accountable for without redesigning it into something far less welcoming. I do not have the power infrastructure or space left to move the speakers at any distance from each other. Is there a rule of thumb for a room that is completely asymmetric (but large)? Haven't done any acoustic test yet, but according to your advice, the ideal placement in my room would be one speaker in front of the corridor and another in front of the kitchen unit, or one speaker in front of the balcony door and another in front of the glass front. One more question: Why not place the speakers inside the shelves at the walls? Zero distance = no delay. It would just completely spoil the harmony of my living room to place speakers 85 cm from the walls.
Hi Fid, too much for me to get into here but it is tricky to get it right in non symmetrical rooms. Apply the principles loosely and generally and it will be a case of trial and error. Sometimes placing speakers flush against the wall can be an acceptable compromise 😊
I always love your videos and appreciate your expertise, however I’m fascinated that I’ve never seen any room treatment in your listening space. Not even a bass trap in sight. How do you explain this ? My experience is that room treatment along with mains purification are the 2 most important ingredients to satisfying 2 channel hifi. Thoughts ?
Thank you for this great video Tarun, I just purchased some second hand Cabesse Farella 400 speakers which sounded great when I tested them...then brought them back home and they sound rather flat...will try out some of the pointers provided in your video...I have concrete flooring so perhaps will go for spikes...many thanks again.
Hi Cosmic Camel, focus on two things... get an amplifier that matches your speakers to get a good tonal balance and makes sure you position your speakers right.
No sure how I missed this!!! As always well done. I am sure you have but with just a couple of numbers... size wise, what is a small room and what is a large room. People might have very different views of that? A city apartment versus a suburban home.
Thank you Jerry. You are right it is a little arbitrary. I would consider a small room sub 15sqm, a large room above 30sqm and of course mid in between.
Nice video. I would like to add that you should avoid having large and tall objects (like a wall or cupboard) too close behind the listening position. That will cause awkward phasing and reflections and ruin stereo imaging and frequency balance. If you are in a small room and simply do not have the space, try hanging a rug or cloth of some sort on the wall behind your listening position.
Hey Tarun, another well rounded video. These 26minutes seemed like a much needed one on one. Keep them coming. Unfortunately I haven't been regular and in case I'm hinting on something you've already covered, kindly excuse me, but I sincerely feel dsp needs to be discussed by knowledgeable gents like yourself. May be look at the mini dsp or something similar. Cheers Shaz
Your room appears to be in a smart, oldish UK house with thick solid brick/stone walls, two tall windows with absolutely no curtains, typical 1990's onwards bare hard laminate/wood floor, medium flat screen tv and mirror on walls. I could tell all that blindfolded by the hard and echoey sound of your (very pleasant) voice. I wouldn't spend a penny more on your sound system or music before getting really good quality heavy lined curtains, fitted carpet or more rugs and putting more soft cushions/throw on the leather sofa. As others have commented it is really refreshing to find someone this side of the pond on the subject. I an retired and have a 20 year old Naim system in my 27 foot sitting room but it is on virtual permanent 'standby' because of the really nice, but pretty close neighbours and a partner into light opera rather than Led Zep and Mahler!
Hi Wills, you made some very keen and astute observations. I do normally have more soft furnishings in the room (cushions, throws and a large fabric chair in the bay) but I remove the clutter when filming. Thank you for watching and commenting on the video.
Greate video as always. It makes me wonder, what if the wall behing the speakers is actually bass absorbtion panel? Would in this case having speakers closer to the wall (panel in this case) increase amount of bass as well? Using an example, which one would potentially be better for reducing amount of the bass: speakers 50cm from the standard wall vs speakers 35cm away from 15cm thick bass absorber placed on the same wall? Many thanks.
Thank you, thank you, thank you 👍🙏😊 My current setup is that the left side of the speaker there is window/wall and right side is no wall (going into dining room) Any suggestions to make it more symmetrical? 🤔
Thank you for watching WMC. Place a 4inch deep absorber at the first reflection point, made from rock wool or similar fibrous material. Hang it so it has a two inch air gap behind it from the wall 😊👍
Very informative video for someone new to high end audio. Can I ask a question please? I have a similar shaped room with a large open fireplace and deep alcoves. The room is about 13 foot wide, so plenty wide enough to get the speakers at least 85cm away from the back and side walls. I was curious as to how you avoid any bass boom from the chimney breast given that there is no way I could realistically get 85 cm away from that structure?
Thank you. Start with the front speakers 3ft (from the front baffle) to the wall behind them. Move they out 6 inches at a time and evaluated bass definition. Settle on the position where they sound the best 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 thank you so much for that. I will follow the guide and report back! The internet is full of don’t do this and don’t do that around audio, nice to see and hear your real world take around embracing your listening space rather than hating it. 👏
They can affect the quality of the centre image and with large items cause time smearing. Need to move speakers even further forward to mutagen effects 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks man. I really like the way the B6.2 sounds, but with some songs I know they are missing some deep bass (I listen with IEMs and headphones too). I know subwoofers can bring lots of room problems of their own, but I'm hoping I can make it work decently while giving me that bottom end I want. Your system sounds great in these videos btw.
Hi brydon10, adding a sub woofer can help with bass problems in a small room. Sounds strange but it is true. Two subwoofers are even better. It is all about having multiple bass sources. Going from two bass sources (main speakers) to four bass sources ( mains + 2 subs) can even out the nulls and peaks in a room. Of course, you need to make sure that the subs are in the right location and set up correctly so as not to overload the room with bass. Think of the subs as active bass management. Good luck and thank you for watching 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Oh wow, well that's great news. I'm definitely just sticking with the one sub for now, but I have heard two is better like you mention. I'll keep it in mind for the future.
Love the episode, love the series you’ve posted. Question: Why do you place your speakers so their tweeters are located closer to the center of the sound field? Given that they are more unidirectional than lower-frequency drivers, wouldn’t reversing the speakers produce a wider sound field and increase stereo separation? (Admittedly, not by a lot. But it’s free...) Always curious. Thanks for your time.
Hi John, you can do it that way and you are right it would produce a wider sound field but a less focused central image. Stewart Tyler’s (designers) advice was to have the tweeter on the inside. I suppose he should know the intricacies of edge diffraction with his own design. I have experimented with them both ways and tend to agree with him that they sound more focused with the tweeters on the inside. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉👍
i am a mastering engineer and it makes me giggle to listen to this.....to get the proper sound you must build the room to match the speakers.if your speakers are touching any part of the room youve already failed.
I think I already know what your going to say but, I have a pool table in my listening room and wonder about reflections and how it would be without it there . I can't really move it to another room to try. I listen on a tall drafting type chair and the speakers are off the floor by 2.5 ' They are 24" tall X 16" wide . Klipsch Heresy IV's They are 9' apart and 9' away from me. They are angles slightly up and toed slightly out from me. If you are in listening chair looking at the speakers they are not obstructed from listener , you can run a tape measure without obstruction from pool table even on the inner edges of the speakers cabinets. I run a sub. I am getting older and am not playing billiards as much anymore. I think they sound great like this but wonder.
Super video, thanks. As luck would have it I am on the verge of buying a pair of budget Focal Alphas with the sole intent of fooling myself that I can learn how to mix music. Could you elaborate just a little on what constitutes a lively room. And if I find mine to be so, then, what would be the opposite of the Focals, soundwise. Thanks again.
Hi , a live room will have a lot of reverberant energy due many reflective hard surfaces and not much soft furnishings. In a room like that you would be better off with a speaker with a little rolled off treble and a narrow dispersion. Something like the Buchardt S400s. Thank you for watching 😊👍
I am wanting to buy my system, but I know I am not in my final home. Should I just go with what I want (B&W 803 D4, Luman 509x and a Rega Planar 10 or do something else? You have made me have so much trepidation now, but thank you for the great insights
If you love the sound of that system then by all means go for it. You can always change the speakers down the line if it doesn’t work in your new home 😊
Buy a DEQX and enjoy almost perfect in room response -also improves imaging and phase response to unheard of levels as any driver or response errors are banished - and that is just scratching the surface of DEQX
You can't correct a room that has room modes and standing waves with this, the acoustics of the room would need to be treated first. After room treatment, you could use it to further correct the balance, but it won't fix late reflections and cancellations from standing waves etc
Tarun - Good insights. I have D48Rs in 12x30x9. My speakers are against 12 feet wall. This is not a dedicated listening room, I have 4 piece furniture (upholstery). Is my room small, big or odd? How does the furniture effect the sound. Thanks
Hi Tarun, just found your channel, very good informative & well presented. A question - I notice you have grills off on the ProAc's is that just your reference or does it make a sound difference? Your Hifi Myths & Misconceptions - Speaker Setup was so relevant as I have 15 yr old system I'm wanting to review in my new house, media room 1800 cub ft (assume medium size). Currently I have Paradigm Studio 20's V3, Centre CC470 + Yamaha NS-IC600 in ceiling surrounds, Yamaha RX-V2500 AV receiver + subwoofer....wasn't happy with sound and was planning to upgrade to floorstanders. Am I glad I found your speakers set up advice re 85cm off walls...I was nowhere near that!! Am looking forward to hearing a difference tonight after your set up advice. Thanks
Hi Dennis, the ProAcs definitely sound better with the grills off. I hope you get what you are looking for when you have adjusted your speaker set up. Remember 85 cm from the front baffle to the surrounding walls is a minimum to create a 5 ms delay in the reflected sound. You may still need to move your speakers a few centimetres or your listening position just in case you are sitting in a base null or peak. Good luck👍
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge on hifi, certainly since you're apparently dealing with the high end of it on a regular basis. It's surprising then to hear the microphone set up of your video here making your voice so clipped and raspy.. it's not pleasant at all. Right off the bat; the video is 27 minutes.. why not divide your clip with time markings of different subjects involved in covering this matter? Would make it more appealing and I'm sure everyone will be appreciative of being able to cut to the chase so to say 🙂
I've been an audiophile for about 20 years, and I can't disagree with a word you've spoken here. I will add, though, that if one breaks the rules of speaker placement egregiously enough, one just might pull off a miracle. I more or less accept the view of the philosopher Paul Feyerabend that science is composed not of hard rules but of successful rituals. And new gods may require new rituals. My Klipschorns and my KEF LS50s debate this point constantly.
I love your philosophical attitude and have to say I agree. In the end science is just a series of models that exist whilst they are useful, until someone else comes along and develops a better model 🤔😉👍
This is a really great video, thank you Taran (I liked and subscribed). Just a quick question please, possibly a silly one (sorry if it is)... You have bookshelves on stands with careful placement from walls, that's fine, however, how can same distances be met when on a regular bookshelf? Soon I'm getting my stereo returned after being elsewhere for years; I can't wait, and am watching your videos for fun and anticipation... Thanks agian.
Thank you Chris, not a silly question at all. I think “bookshelf” is probably a misleading term. Maybe “monitor” speakers is a better term. You can’t achieve the required distance from walls if your speakers are placed on a bookshelf. Some speakers are designed to work close to walls like the Proac Tablettes but most will benefit from being further out. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks too. I wanted my B&W 601s S2 on the shelf, but are on Atacama stands, and that's good, especially with a B&W sub to boot. ... Please, one more Q... At what point do you bin/repair/replace faulty equipment? Here's mine: my Teac Ref500 went into "protective mode", so is under repair with a technical process called "being swept", which is taking forever and at an unknown cost... Repair or replace?
Hi Chris, if the repair is approaching the cost you would get for a good quality used item on eBay (other sites are also available) I would think about replacing.
Greetings and thank you. As luck would have it, I am about to buy a pair of budget Focal Alphas (to serve the illusion that I am going to learn how to mix music) as I watch this. Could you describe a little more what constitutes a lively room. And if that’s what I have, what would be the opposite of the Focals. Thanks again.
Hey Tarun! Thanks for the awesome video. I've been searching for a good video about speaker placement and yours is a good one. However I cannot find any speaker placement guide based on measurements done with a microphone using the REW software. Have you ever used the app and do you believe in measurements as a way to get the speaker setup right? Thanks!
Hi Arm, I personally haven’t used REW or other room eq software but I am fairly confident setting up speakers by ear. That’s is not to say that I haven’t seen room eq systems used successfully because I have. I would suggest to set up initially with REW and then fine tune the setup by ear. This is the approach that most manufacturers take when designing speakers and it makes sense. The reason is that the measurements confirm that you haven’t made any obvious mistakes. Then you have to fine tune by ear as measurement, as of date, don’t reveal all that we hear. It may sound strange but it is true, just ask any notable speaker designer.
Before switching to computers in the mid-80's, I worked (various times) as a sale rep for Phase Linear, Soundcraftsmen, Marantz, AIWA, Yamaha, Kenwood, Hitachi, Teac, Dual, Thorens, Audio-Technica, Shure, Infinity, Klipsch, dbx, BASF, TDK, Koss, Sennheiser, and a few others. Today, my "audiophile" setup consists of a simple bookshelf system. Lol.
That's probably the LAST thing a true blue-blood "audiophile" wants to hear (especially when 90% of their reason for living revolves around bi-wired speakers (with 8-guage OFC wires), 300 watt mono-block amps and 50k turntables fitted with more 24k gold than fort knox!)... but the TRUTH is that 99% of humanity - especially if you happen to be over 50 - can't hear the difference between a 50 dollar setup and a 50,000 dollar setup; you just ain't got the ears for it anymore (sniff...). My B&W 685 bookshelf speakers, 75-watt Cambridge Audio amp and Denon DP-300F turntable/Ortophone 2M Blue cartridge setup sounds simply fantastic! Conclusion? It's certainly not the SIZE or COST of the components that counts, it's knowing which components are really first class for the kinds of music you enjoy listening to (regardless of size/price) and HOW TO POSITION YOUR SPEAKERS IN THE SPACE YOU HAVE... AND WHICH SPEAKERS ARE RIGHT FOR THAT SPACE. You want better sound, study room/sound reflections, floor and ceiling acoustics and proper "toe-in" for your speaker's specific tweeter dispersion angle (wider angle; less toe-in - narrow angle; point those babies at your listening chair). Mike D.
@@gardenphoto .. Lol. Luckily, I got out of the industry well before my hearing degraded. Still suspect my hearing is a bit better attuned than most, if only because I know what to listen for. No, times just changed, forcing my interests to change. Today, those computers have also taken a back seat to leisure, camping, and fishing. Now if I can only get someone to cut the lawn at a reasonable price.
Really nice explanation. How about asymmetrical rooms? Also one Side in my room has a diagonal rooftop. Are there workarounds with absorbers or other methods? I think my Sound is really good as is ( good Balance in mids treble Bass) . I got 3 way bookshelf speakers on Stands with Spikes. My stereo triangel is 2,30 m (left to right and listening distance) for reference. Is there something to optimize further? Thanks
Question: On an audiophile forum, it was said that it's important to keep speaker cables as short as possible but that it doesn't matter if interconnects between pieces of equipment are long. Unless you use monoblock amps, that looks difficult to do. Like your system here -- your electronics are on the right, close to one speaker, but the other speaker is several feet away, requiring a longer cable. What do you think about that?
Hi Robert, it is not really an issue unless you are looking at long runs of cables (10m+). In these cases you would get more signal loss on the speaker cable than you would on an interconnect. On the 3 to 5m runs that most people have, I wouldn’t loose any sleep on whether it was a speaker cable or interconnect with the longer run. In fact I would go as far as to say that it makes no difference at all. Bear in mind that some amplifiers, like old Naim and my Exposure amplifiers, require a minimum 4m run on the speaker cable provide the right kind of impedance loading.
What I find frustrating of all acoustic videos is they all pivot on the notion that everyone has a rectangle/ square room dedicated for one thing only. In reality a very small percentage of the population actually will have this. Can you possibly make a video on how to get the best results with let’s say an open plan living room, kitchen space or what to do if for example if you can obtain symmetry with speaker and side wall placement.
This is a very complex field. It is hard enough getting it right in a relatively regular shaped room let along those that have unusual shapes. Those rooms need to be looked at on an individual basis. The general principles involved carry over it is just more difficult to achieve acoustic symmetry.
i think you forgot to mention another factor in music listening: the loudness of volume for the sweetspot. you can have a large speaker but play at appropriate volume and you can have a small speaker and play at appropriate volume. you don’t have to fill the entire room to listen to good music. the sound from the speakers cover a certain range like an umbrella and if you are inside that umbrella, you will hear good soundstage. you don’t want to play at a volume that results in too much reflections in the room. you need to control your volume. no matter how you tune your speakers if you don’t play at appropriate level, it will sound shit. if you have a small speaker, sit closer. you want to hear music direct from speakers and less from the walls. small speakers are more versatile because if you have a large room, you can literally remove the wall interaction by sitting closer.
@@MegaXoz this video was about providing some general rules for people to follow. Of course, listening in the nearfield in a large room with small speakers will help improve perception of dynamics. Most people in large rooms will not be listening in the nearfield.
you have an assumption that big rooms need big speaker to fill it. the problem with this assumption is that you don’t want your speaker sound as much as possible reach your walls because reflected sound is bad to the listening experience. it is actually useful to have a big room and listen to bookshelf speaker within its limited range because what you hear is direct sound. you don’t need to sit nearfield but just within the range of your speaker. big room should not be the reason you want a bigger speaker if you just want good quality sound.
i meant because you have big room, it does not necessarily imply you need a big speaker. the object is not to fill the entire room but to sit within the range of your speaker.
Hi, so nice to see your video and its very informative. Anyways i would like go ask your opinio about my current situations. Ive been audio enthusiast for almost 20 years now. Recently i bought a leisure chair for my listening. The thing is this , the sound changes a bitb. I found that tha bass becomes hard and not defined welk compare to a foldable chair im using previously . My speaker is Wilson Audio Sasha series 1 driven by Pass labs x350.8 , pre amp is jadis jp 15 . Im using Linn sondek magic turntable . My cables are Transparent super. I tried toe in , changing distance side, back and even front . Hope you can help me. More power.
Thank you Gary. That is odd. I could see how a large item like a sofa might make an impact but not a chair. Unless it is a high back chair which may be have an impact on the head related transfer function (localise acoustic issues). The other issue could be that the chair is a different height. This will have an impact on the bass it also change the tonal balance of the speaker. Try experimenting with the listening height. Good luck and please let me know how you get on 😊👍
My leisure chair is not high back. Its a mid back chair. I made sure that there is no obstruction or material behind my head. But, the bass tones have become too tight and hard for my liking. Appreciate your help.
Hi. Great video with very useful information both for the new and old audiophiles. What speaker cable are you using with your Proac's? I also running a pair of response 1s and tablette signatures. Under rated speakers. Do you think power cables make a difference? I know power cable are a touchie subject but with your experience you maybe able to share some insight. Cheers.
Hi Michael, I use Linn K20 speaker cable, mainly because my Exposure amplifiers like to see a particular load. How much difference power cables make is very system dependent. Some equipment is more sensitive to stray RF and EMI than others. If you have a lot of equipment in close proximity to each other (interconnects and power leads) this is a high noise environment and a well shielded power cable can make a difference with some equipment. However, I am yet to be convinced that spending a lot of money on cables is beneficial. The electrical properties of cables (resistance, capacitance and inductance) are well researched by the telecoms industry (unlike many things in our hobby) and understood in terms of signal loss. I have personally constructed my own power cables using Belden and Lapp shielded mains cable with good quality termination and connectors but nothing fancy. I see this as good housekeeping and they cost me about £20 to construct. I also use a parallel mains conditioner, Ifi iPower, which helps to lower the noise floor and has some sonic benefit in my system. As I say, it is very system dependent and your mileage may vary. Maybe this is a subject to explore in my Hifi Myths & Misconception series.
Hi T.j. Bennett, there are so many. Pick something that you know well, well recorded, with male or female vocals located in the centre. If you want a couple of suggestions, try Michael Buble - Always On My Mind and Jennifer Warnes - Pretending To Care. Both are great recordings and your system should produce the lead vocal with a very clear centre image if set up correctly. Thank you for watching and commenting on the video.
You are lucky. You can use either but I would probably stick with the spikes on a concrete floor. Concrete floor won’t be storing any significant energy from the speakers.
I’ll try the spikes on my speakers, why not, and put the pads underneath my subs and compare. Even though I’ve been at this hobby for a number of years, I still don’t trust my ears to discern subtle differences so I sometimes don’t like to tinker too much. Or I’m just lazy, haha!
I'm a acoustician by trade (architectural acoustics), and I appreciate someone finally explaining this in such a straight forward way. Acoustics is about managing energy. Great video, cheers from NYC.
I have never heard a more intelligent, concise description of proper speaker setup. 27 minutes well spent. I learned more than everything else I have seen on TH-cam combined. I have met a few musicians that taught me some of what you covered. You were intensely through and enlightening. Thank you!
I must say… the sheer amount of knowledge contained within this video and the way you have presented it is absolutely incredible and very helpful. Sometimes videos are either extremely technical to the point where you lose track, or it’s so simple you don’t gain much information. The balance you have here is perfect. Thank you.
Thank you. Very kind and greatly appreciated 👍😊👍
A lovely well presented and knowledgable video. As a sound engineer for over 47 years and still, in retirement, using my much loved Genelec monitors bought back in 1995 - I can assure you all, as said here, the room maketh the loudspeaker. They have sounded so different as they've moved from studio to studio and room to room.
Thank you Paul. That is very much appreciated 😊👍
Nice video and a lot of helpful suggestions for audio beginners and for anyone who hasn't really given much thought to speaker setup. Not anything new to me but I am a 50+ year audiophile. :) The only thing I would add is for audiophiles to experiment with the speaker width and speaker toe-in. Widely spaced speaker positioning will usually require more toe-in for optimal sound whereas more closely spaced speaker positioning will usually require less. This will also depend on the dispersion of your midrange/tweeters. If an audiophile wants super focused imaging and a narrower, more focused soundstage, then more toe-in is usually the answer. Conversely, with the tweeters aimed outside your ears and tending more towards straight ahead will give you airier but less focused imaging and soundstaging. By the way, Tarun, the toe-in of your left speaker (looking at your fireplace) is quite a bit less than your right speaker. Way more cabinet wall is visible. :)
Hi James, thank you sharing you experience and knowledge. I really appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment on the video. I think it must be due to the camera angle or lighting as both speakers are toed in the same. Good to hear from you.
Thank you Tarun, for a wonderful and simple explanation. How refreshing compared to the demeaning, rude, arrogant talk I received during my 15 min consultation with a notorious acoustic engineer who sells panels and tells me unless I spend $25.000 to treat my already treated(carpets everywhere, thick curtains, cloth furniture, solid stereo image) apartment, I need to spend that much because everything is horrible about my set up without asking one question. Lots of quacks out there so all of you beware.
@@r2d3vadar92 thank you kindly. It is unfortunate that some people in the industry don’t have their clients best interests in mind 😊
This is REALLY good and important info to get best fidelity - that you have provided. My old Infinity Quantum 2's came with detailed instructions describing, just these same steps you specified. One more thing that really helps is to have open space behind the sound stage beyond the back of the listener so the sounds are not reflected back at the listener, like in a concert hall, if possible. Infinities instructions also described the effects of the corner of a room reinforcing lows making bass louder. Infinity described moving the speakers to different positions and listening to the result, with some trial an error. When using a sub it is important to be able to adjust the phase while the listener is listening within the sweet spot so the bass does not cancel with the main speakers, doing this will find to actually turn down the sub some. These things really have profound affects, just as you say - Really helpful instructions! I look forward to checking our your other stuff!
Thank you ND. I appreciate you sharing 😊
Thanks, that was very comprehensive and easy to understand. I noticed that, in comparison with your more recent videos, your own sound quality is rather woody here, so you have clearly made worthwhile improvements in that area over the years. I remember hearing the ProAc Response 1 in a hifi shop about thirty years ago and liking them very much, so not surprised you still like yours.
Thank you 😊
Refreshing to discover a practical down to earth no nonsense ego free presentation.Thanks for sharing the science common sense and experience.
Thank you, much appreciated 😊👍
I followed your minimum 85 cm advice for the 5 millisecond delay of first reflected sound... and it worked! THANK YOU
By far the best video on speaker set up.
Thank you Viggo. I appreciate you watching and commenting 😉👍
Dang, just 31.800 Subs? I am shocked. Terribly underrated. Apreciate and confirm your work!
Thank you 😊👍
Great video. I have just discovered your channel and have learned so much useful advice from this and some of your other videos over the last week. I very much appreciate your clear concise delivery with humble demeanour. Keep up the great work.
Same here. Very calming haha
Thank you Andrew. much appreciated 😊👍
Thank you Marcel. Good for when you want to go to sleep 😊🥱
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Consider it a great alternative to the usual semi-shouting channels 😉
Thank you for the very practical review! I like the 3 ‘ rule for slowing down reflections to >5m sec.... I tried it and it worked just fine! More 3 dimensionality and more center fill.
I glad it work Robert. Thank you for watching 👍
Wonderful, full of facts. I'm a newbie to both hifi and this channel, enjoying both :-). In case you will be considering Q&A type of videos:
1.) Does fire (heat) affect the sound in your room? It's pretty close to the speakers.
2.) There does not seem to be any visible treatment in your room, how come?
3.) With the speakers 90cm above the floor, sitting 2m from them, assuming your ear is at the same height as your tweater. The trajectory of the sound reflected off the floor is 2,71M, vs 2m direct path. Way below 5ms difference, right? You probably have a carpet there, just saying 90cm does not seem to be enough in all cases.
Thank you Daniel. I appreciate the suggestions 😊
I don't think many realize how well-organized and presented this is. You condensed a tremendous amount of useful information in a very digestible and engaging package and it seemed effortless. Thank you
Thank you TK. That is very kind of you to say 😊👍👍
Agreed!
agreed too.
You digested the package?
Agreed, there are plenty of good stuff here, very well presented. thanks !
Tarun, I've watched several of your videos and find them quite good. Thank you for your reasonable, scientific approach to music listening.
Thank you for watching John 😊👍
i recently learned that, in some situations, those wall reflections and the pronounced bass they cause can be used as an advantage.
as i have just fixed my girls old hifi reciever and put it in her room, we did test a couple of speakers - and settled on a pair of tiny bookshelf units (think 'JBL control one')
i never thought much about these particular speakers as they were pretty cheap and always lacking in the low end when on their own ... so they spent the last 5 years tucked away in a closet... but now we put them on a shelf, litterally with their backs agains the wall ... and boy did they start to go low all of a sudden.
it's like we found the combination of amp, speakers and positioning that works very good in this room ... finding a good match is always interesting to witness when it happens ...
Thank you for watching and sharing your experiences Kenji
Thank you for this! Based on your information, I repositioned my Klipsch RP600M's a bit, and got significant improvement. All at no cost. They were about 25cm too close to the rear wall, and 'tightened up' when moved out to your suggested position. It really helps having a second person moving the speakers while the shot-caller stays in the prime listening spot.
Hi Mark B., great suggestion. Really please you got something beneficial from the video. Thank you for watching and commenting.
Oh man, can't thank you enough for the tip at 15:49 . I pulled my Amphion Helium 520 floorstanding speakers just a bit more (10 cm or so) off from the side wall, which made a huge difference for the better in stereo image. Now my triangle ain't anymore that correct, but this compromise is so much better. At last I'm hearing the huge open crisp clear sound I heard at the dealer, many years ago! I thought it was my amplifier/dac, but no, it's acoustics! I reckon your tip just saved me a lot of money! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Hi luomusuomukas, that is great! It is hearing comments like that which make doing this channel worthwhile 😁
Thanks, now I'll be spending the next 3 hours moving my speakers around. Great advice.
I use a laser tape that makes checking symetry easier than a metal tape.
Good luck Nick 😊👍
Great info. You really have a lot of experience and knowledge. I didn't know high freq. are running faster than low ones.
Thank you 😊
Great job. Thumb up. Thank you. (Minor note: I believe it is "Toeing" not "Towing" when talking about the angle of the speakers--unless you are talking about BIG speakers you tow behind a truck. Then you really are towing speakers.)
Thank you. That was an oversight 😂👍
I've learned a lot in this half hour. A big thank you!
Thank you for watching 👍
Excellent advice. Used to have a pair of ProAc Tablets. Extraordinary sound stage in even moderately large rooms.
They are great speakers. Thank you for watching and commenting 😊
Well explained, I think speaker placement is seriously undervalued, I’ve owned B&W and Thiels in the past and they could sound terrible if not set up correctly in a given room. However, after being an avid ‘audiophile’ for over 30 years, I now mainly listen using a decent set of open back headphones, it solves an awful lot of problems that you talk about in this video. However, I honestly believe that the vast majority of people are not hearing what their system is truly capable of due to ignorance of speaker placement. I had a friend who had a set of Wilson’s in a room that is about 20ft x 11ft, these speakers cost in excess of £15K, I took a pair of active JBL LSR 305’s to his house, set them up via a pre/ dac costing around £350 and his jaw dropped, this system only costs around £800 and it sounded as good, if not better (in his room) than his Wilson’s did. Even his wife could not believe that what I had set up did not cost thousands when she heard it. Just goes to show, price does not always equate to performance in hifi, the thing most people overlook is the interaction of said components within their listening room!
There is also a tendency for ‘audiophiles’ to spend more because they are told it’s an ‘audiophile grade’ component, this is mainly nonsense after a certain point, because after a certain point you are no longer paying for electronic design, rather you are paying for over engineering, heaving case work and / or high quality veneers etc, none of that adds much to fundamental performance of a well designed component in terms of electronics, you are basically paying for looks not performance at that point. Always remember, if you truly enjoy music, you will enjoy it regardless of what it is played on, because it’s the music that stirs the soul, not the electronic components that play it, everyone sounds different, there are many different guitars and many different pianos and they all have different presentations but the music is still recognisable and enjoyable no matter what instrument it is played on.
Thank you for watching and sharing your experiences Paul. I really enjoyed reading about them. I suspect you are probably right, at some point it becomes about audio jewellery. I have never been in the position to audition top tier equipment in my home. The most expensive single item I auditioned at home was a Linn Kilmax DAC at £12,000. It sounded great but then it should at that price. I have heard some truly great high end systems costing £100,000+ over the years which were set up well and others systems at the same price that sounded awful due to poor set up. Thanks again 😊👍
Great channel, not sure if someone else has mentioned it but in terms of the front wall and small rooms it’s almost always better to position you speakers as close to the wall as possible to help with SBIR issues.
The peaks and dips caused by sbir can be severe and a unless you can get the speakers more than 3m away from the wall (who can do that!) you are going to have a very low cancellation notch which is going to be impossible to deal with using any practical treatment and can cause 6db swings.
At 85cm you are at least over 100 hz but moving close to the wall will make it even more manageable. This is the reason studio speakers are soffit mounted and manufacturers like genelic actually outline it in their manuals no more than 1m from the front wall and actually advocate 5cm’s if possible!
It’s also worth not having your speakers at exactly the same distance from the side walls to the front wall and i believe a ratio of 1:3 is recommended.
Hi Oliver, thank you for watching and sharing.
Good content...well done. One point if I may as a speaker designer...it is not true to generalise that tweeters are more directional. The reverse can be true. It depends on the frequency wavelength compared to driver size. Polar response matching of units as a consideration in crossover design is important. Tweeters can have smooth polar response with perhaps just 5dB drop off above 10khz to 10 degrees off axis but much less drop off below 10khz. Why? Because directivity kicks in causing drivers to beam on axis only once the wavelength of the frequency approaches driver diameter. Once at this point off axis sound drops off dramatically. A tweeter will generally have a greater dispersion than a midrange at say 2khz for example.
Stereo image stability and phase response can both be affected by directivity and polar response so the job of the design engineer is to ensure that matching drive units results in smooth polar response at crossover...ie no waist in response by crossing over too high for the larger drive unit.
Some designs get this badly wrong and no amount of room positioning can make up for their poor off axis performance. They need to be listened to on axis and can have a small sweet spot so need lots of toe in.
Conversley you want to limit off axis response much past 30 degrees or more to limit side wall reflections. Speakers that have a high direct to indirect room power response at the listening position will sound more accurate and have better tonal detail and imaging. Its a balancing act. Too much indirect sound at the listening spot destroys this unless lots of room treatment is employed. Too much directivity gives rise to phase shift and stereo image instability off axis.
These are just a few reasons more why some speakers will sound better than others in some rooms or listening closer to them or further away. Its about the room and the design of the speaker.
From roughly 300 hz and under its all about the room.
Hi Paul, thank you for sharing your professional knowledge and experience. I knew about maximum diffraction when wavelength = aperture as this is case for all waves (light, water, etc.). Don’t know much about polar response, is that something to do with comb filtering?
Thanks a lot for this video. I am having some difficulty placing my AP Tempo 6s in my room (19sqm). Now i know that symmetry is so important as well as why the speakers shoud be placed a certain distance from the walls. I'm gonna try your tips now and see how they affect the sound. Sub!
Took delivery of large speakers of my small room yesterday, wish I had watched this first. Still I like my Wharfdale evo 4.4 as they look amazing.
You can still get them to work, just requires very careful positioning 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thank you for taking the time to reply. I tried that yesterday with the 80cm from walls formula. Much to my wife dislike and huge row they are back nice and neat against the wall. Something to be said for the single life.
@@deathski2 I am sure you are not alone 😉👍
Really interesting topic this. I'd never consider myself a true audiophile, but I've worked selling audio gear for a couple of different shops, worked as an audio tech installing systems in cinema auditoriums, and have spent 30 years acquiring and repairing and using stereo equipment of all shapes, sizes, and quality levels. I've also been to over 3000 live gigs, and have assisted in bands rigs setups and worked exclusively with one band on tour for a time. After all that you'd hope I had some idea about what good sound is.
As you say, the room is without a doubt the singular most important factor in achieving good quality audio. The best speakers in the world are going to sound rubbish in a small bedroom, and some very modest gear can sound quite amazing in a properly set up studio. You certainly covered this well, talking about the rooms used at hifi shows for demonstrations. Given that scenario, I've sometimes used an interesting tactic, and it's one that sometimes raises eyebrows. Now as an audio and music enthusiast such as I am, many others who are the same find my taste in music a bit questionable. I am unashamedly a die-hard metalhead. And not just the old stuff. I'm talking Cannibal Corpse, Testament, Slayer, At The Gates, Carcass, Vader, and so on. Some fairly brutal stuff. Bands not necessarily known for finesse and detail in their recordings. Mostly audiophiles will choose especially good recordings of much gentler music for their demonstrations - and whilst it's sensible to choose recordings you're familiar with, I think smooth jazz and acoustic recordings aren't really a test for the equipment. Considering the flagships are being shown off in a pretty acoustically unfriendly environment, why not push that unfriendliness to its absolute limit and really give them a black eye. That's where the brutal metal comes in.
The true test of a pair of speakers is not smooth jazz at loungeroom conversation levels in the sound booth at the hifi store. The way to really test them is in that horrible little room at the hifi show, with Cannibal Corpse or similar at 110dB. Find their limitations. How do they deal with that complexity and walloping noise? Can you still hear the singer? Or is he lost in the jack-hammering double kick bass drums and wailing distorting guitars? The ones that sound the least awful under those circumstances are the ones to buy. Just about anyone can build speakers that sound lovely playing Diana Krall at lower levels. Getting them to sound clear and detailed at 110dB with Cannibal Corpse is much more difficult. That's your test. It's not about finding the ones that sound the best, it's about finding the ones that sound the least worst when really pushed.
Now go forth and smash some windows. Once you have developed a taste for that then you're truly an audiophile! Lol.
Hi, I really enjoyed reading your comments and learning about your experiences. Thank you for sharing 👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks for reading. I really enjoy your videos - you have great knowledge, and convey it in a really clear way. So thank YOU for that. Your knowledge of higher end equipment is certainly far better than mine, I'm learning a lot listening to you.
I probably should have qualified my comments by mentioning what gear I use myself. My own loungeroom has been a bit of an experimentation room over the years, with all sorts of different gear coming and going. But I do seem to have settled on the setup I have now.
I have a pair of hand built speakers we call the monoliths (they're large and black), and they are transmission lines loosely based on the daline design, but with separate tweeter enclosures and a bit of my own modification with measurements and volumes etc. Vifa 8"mid-bass drivers and Scan-Speak tweeters. They were meant to be prototypes, proof of concept, but they ended up sounding so good I never built the "proper" ones, I just played with the baffling for a bit, got it pretty good, sealed them up and painted them. No sub-woofer required, they can get down pretty deep when it's in the original recording. They are bi-amped with a pair of Auditec Murray twin mono 200 watt power amps (these were a leftover from my cinema auditorium days - hand built things by a local guy here named Cecil Murray, bulletproof things, really punchy sound, well designed, they have excellent passive cooling capacity so can take a lot of punishment), and an active crossover built from kits available from an electronics supplier here in Australia (Altronics). The ICs are a bit noisy in the kits and buzz a little bit, but it doesn't really impede on the music so I've left upgrading them for a day when I'm really bored. I'm currently running a tweaked NAD 1020 preamp - I've certainly run fancier valve preamps in years gone by, but I really like the way the NAD phono stage sounds in this preamp so I'm staying with it for now. Various components have been renewed and/or upgraded in the 1020 so it sounds pretty good and doesn't suffer from any of the downfalls that NAD gear of that vintage usually does. My CD player is a very run-of-the-mill NAD unit currently, I've run Yamaha too, and had one of those ChineseYaqin valve things for a while (sounded fine but ye gods are they ugly), and my main turntable is a Technics SL-1200 with a remote Rega arm and a Shure V15 mk iii with a JICO SAS stylus. Certainly not the most high end gear by any stretch, but we love it. The monoliths have a really transparent sound (a characteristic of TLs, I know), which can be good and bad. They will certainly expose a sub-standard recording. The amps and speakers will take a lot of punishment without falling over, and the sound is clear and neutral at higher SPLs, when those electrons are really flowing! I'd like to upgrade the CD player at some point, go to some kind of setup with a separate DAC and carriage unit so I can play around with different DACs and just replace the carriage unit easily when it dies (as they all eventually do). All in good time. I've also got a PC plugged in to the NAD 1020 for digital files, not that I have a huge amount. I do like my vinyl, it's my preferred medium despite it's shortcomings.
Congratulations on reaching the end of my somewhat trumpet blowing essay. Keep 'em spinning. :-)
Hi woopimagpie, I like that you have been brave and knowledgeable enough to mod your equipment and try your hand at building speakers. I can only imagine how hard it is to build a pair of transmission lines and get them right. I have a pair of transmission line Celestion 300. Great bass extension. Sound like you know exactly what you are doing and what you want from your system. That is most of the battle won in my opinion. Thank you for supporting my little channel 😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 To be honest I expected much more trial and error when building the speakers. Nobody was more surprised than me that I appeared to have gotten it pretty right with my first attempt. I did a lot of reading and research and tried to understand the theory of it all as best I could, it certainly seemed as though I'd gotten a handle on it when they turned out well. The endless graphs and charts and sketches seemed to have paid off.
I have to admit, I did have a bit of practice with an earlier pair of speakers I owned. They began life as a stock pair of Richter Merlins, an early ported enclosure model by a now pretty well known Australian speaker manufacturer. By the time I was done with them I had built new stands, upgraded the crossovers and internal wiring, replaced the internal padding with sonex acoustic foam, added some extra bracing, changed the tweeters and then finally bi-amped them. By then they had reached the end of their development so it was time for something new. Some auditions of new speakers taught me that the sound I was desiring was out of my price range, and a casual conversation over a beer with an audio engineer friend and workmate turned into an exercise in speaker building, with the monoliths as the result. I had some help along the way, it wasn't entirely me. My audio engineer friend conferred with the theory side of things, and my cabinet maker brother-in-law assisted with cutting the timber and assembly of the boxes. This was all back in 2002 so I've had them a while now, and they still sound great. Like you say, great bass extension, and very natural sounding.
I love breaking out the soldering iron and rolling my sleeves up, I've rescued and repaired loads of old amplifiers over the years, with mixed results. Some just require a component or two to be replaced, some require a total rebuild which invariably leaves me wondering why I started in the first place. Spending $200 in parts on an amp that's worth $150 on the second-hand market is a venture I've completed more than once! It's very satisfying to hear the old girls working again though - in those situations I take that as my payment, and sometimes even press them into service as part of the bedroom or garage stereos for a time. It's great fun, if nothing else. I've donated a few to friends and family (my aforementioned brother-in-law also has a stereo entirely supplied and set up by me!) Comparing how they all look and sound, exploring their strengths and weaknesses, and discovering how some components really work well together (and some not at all) is something I find really interesting, much like your good self.
Cheers.
This is not a joke, nor am I affiliated in any way to Tarun. I spent months positioning my ATC SCM40s, until I had found "the place" by ear. I haven't felt any urge to move them from then on. I ran across a reference to this vid in a forum, looked at my speakers and thought "Hmm, that might be quite close to what he recommends - funny." Took out my yardstick and measured EXACTLY 82.5 cm both sides from the back wall. It's crazy.
Thank you buddy. That is great feedback. Very nice speakers, by the way 👍😊👍
I wish I had encountered this video earlier. The point about speaker distance and toeing in, I also came to the same conclusion by trial and error
Thank you Jacob 😊
Thank you for such a well structured and pitched commentary on speaker placement. I am left to work out how (in time) I will be placing my WharfEdale w60 speakers in an àtic room (ceiling inclination 30 degrees) with a wall distance of 225 cm and and 3,5 m to the listening spot, all concrete 😬
Can be tricky to get it right in a vaulted ceiling but the same principles apply. Good luck 😊👍
All true! In terms of the physics I did at Uni ...
Thanks for the usefull well informed, well presented usefull material Tarun.
Interesting how I've always dabbled in this unconciously from my first cheap radio as a kid, putting the speakers in corners to get more boom out of them
Thank you Dave. Much appreciated 😉👍
Good video, detailed gives people a good basis on how to get the best out of your system. Most people don't realize how much a room can affect the sound of your speakers. I found it interesting that you talked about Dr.Floyd Toole. He did amazing work in acoustics and psycho acoustics. I picked speakers based on his work with Harmon audio. I know he worked on developing the Intermezzo line of speakers. I chose the trickle down line the interlude series, same driver technology and I have been very happy with them for 17 years now. Enjoyed watching and thanks
Hi Donald, Dr T is a bit of a pioneer in this industry. I am not surprised that you are extremely happy with any speaker that he was involved in developing. Thank you for sharing.
Really good insights as usual. I fully agree with your speaker decoupling comment, having tested myself that suspended floor can kill the sound of floorstanders. I experimented with foam pads but they dull the sound a lot. Isocoustics devices was the best solution by far, not cheap though. Spikes on concerte: 100 %!.
I am just a little confused about the distance from the tweeter to the back wall of 85 cm. The tweeter does not emit backwards so why is it important. I understand the first order reflection from the walls, floor and ceiling but they are all propagating forward towards the listener. So unless you have open baffle, why do you care about a backward reflection?
In my room I can not conserve symmetry unfortunately for domestic reasons, the room is 7m by 6m. One of my concept 40 speakers is placed 87cm from the corner side wall and 90 cm from the back wall (close to your specs and I agree that the soundstage is better than when they are closer to the back wall even though I dont understand why). The speakers are 2m apart and I listen 2.2m away. So obviously I have reflection from one side wall and not the other. Luckily it is a window and I have heavy curtains on it and frankly I do not perceive a dissymmetry in the soundstage. I have tried to invert the amplifier left right to see how a song is perceived but it is inconclusive. Is it always better to maximise the direct sound and place speakers as far as possible from side walls or can the reflections from a highly dispersive speaker also enhance some aspects of the sound providing the first reflection points are dealt with?.
This post is too long...
Thank you Les. I was just using the tweeter to give a reference point to measure from. The high frequencies don’t travel backwards 😊
The room and set up are very important.
Got a humble yet good sounding system (Clearaudio Concept MC, Lehmannaudio Decade, Synthesis Nimis and Wilson Watt Puppies (DIY)).
Went to some high end shows and results regarding price of the gear is always mixed.
Fun fact: my Dali Menuets on stands sounded boomy in my 6x4m living compared to my Wilsons do...both on the very same tiled carpeted floor. Still an enigma to me.
Toeing in an raking depends on first reflection points as well, not just the speaker. Symmetry is your starting point but if you have to move just one speaker so be it.
About dampening, I often hear the opposite and use spikes to get rid instead of isolating (prolong) unwanted vibrations quicker.
If somebody starts out with: I am an engineer (so I know what I am talking about) makes me either cringe or giggle.
Hi Mike, thanks for sharing.
Really informative video, thanks. Im a bit limited in my space, I have a dining table right in front of the speakers like yuor friend, and the maximum I can move the speakers from the wall is 65cms. Ive towed the speakers out very slightly to reduce the bright sound I was getting and have put a fairly thick table cloth on the table. Basically dont be afraid to experiment !
Thank you Jim. I appreciate you watching and sharing your experiences 😊👍
Thanks again, Tarun, for an informative video. I love hearing someone dealing with facts and science rather than trying to convince me I should just buy into everything they say just because they are able to afford really expensive gear. I understand the need for separation of your speakers from the walls. However. because of limitations of my room layout, the best distance I can get from my walls behind the speakers is only 1 foot. Is there anything I can do to compensate for this limitation? By the way, my speakers are older B&W 601s3's, if that makes any difference. I don't really have a lot of money to spend to replace them, so that is not really an option. Thanks to anyone who cares to leave a helpful comment
William Harmer great speakers, why change them.
I have my speakers placed with equal distance to one of my room corners. This could be worth a try. I learned about it in a Hifi shop. Their listening room is square. I have enjoyed this setup for 20 years. My speakers were Dali Grand Diva, Dali Euphonia MS4, and now Dali Epicon.
Hello British AF, I have to admit, that's it refreshing to watch / listen to someone who isn't just talking about specs or something that can be sold. I have a question if I may which I seem hard to answer, I recently got a pair of bookshelf speakers that are front ported when it comes to the bass and I have problems positioning them in my new apartment. As front ported speakers don't use the wall the spread out the bass, does it matter on how we position them then? The sound is flat at where the couch is, but actually decent at the back. The room being 5m long and no dining table etc in front besides a carpet. Thought I would reach out to you and see what you thought.
Hi Boo, coincidentally I covered some of this is my video last week. I will provide the link. The location of the port doesn’t have much bearing on where a speaker should be located. It is more to do with the overall design. Bass will not be even in your room as it manifests itself as areas of low and high pressure. It is important to get the speaker position right and your location to the speakers so that you sit in an area of the room where the bass is fairly even. Adding subwoofers (two small ones are better than one big one) are a way of trying to even out the bass response in the room as you move from 2 bass producing speakers (2 main speakers) to 4 bass producing speakers (2 main speakers + 2 subs). DSP is also a good solution for reducing low frequency peaks but none of these can be an alternative to good speaker positioning 😊👍
th-cam.com/video/mjliP25NiW4/w-d-xo.html
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Good morning, I ended up stalking a few of your videos. As your video suggested, I did a mini test (before my wife came home to see it/raise her eyebrows) to see what I could do and if pulling them more off the wall even more would help. Wow, it totally did. I found myself hearing more detail in the treble and mid and with front ported, I didn't think it would effect it so much (they were already about 35cm off). - The bass didn't change much and it's been my plan to get a decent sub to give it a boost. I told my wife I was going to re-do the whole layout of the living room (as to mask a bit of the purpose of pulling the speakers so much off the wall).
I've been an HiFi / Audiophile lets say since the age of 16 (that's 25 years ago). Actually I would say I like good sound, I am not just about the gear. But what I think is most disappointing about the HiFi industry is the majority of sales people. Many don't really care as long as you are buying gear. We spend fortunes on all this gear for people to not have it setup right. For example, I recently got a pair of speaker stands (directly from Atacama) to go with these new speakers, but the amount of rubbish I was fed by sales people (about the size) made me call up Atacama directly and say, "Hey, this is what they are telling me, it feels wrong. what do you think?" To the extent they were well off that Dennis there laughed his head off and said they were well off and the stands alone are not about 27 kilos with filling (not light like the 7kgs suggested by the salesman). All this this made me miss Harrow Audio when I was living the UK.
Got my a new amp arriving on Monday! (Yamaha a-s2100). - Can't wait! Then a bass unit is my next port of call (pun intended I guess).
Sorry for the verbal diarrhea, just one passionate rant to someone who gets it.
:)
@@booradley3146 thank you Boo. I totally get it! That was one of the primary reasons I started this channel. A way to share useful information. It works both ways, I learn from my audience and hopefully they sometimes learn something from me. Thank you for watching and sharing your experiences. I really enjoyed reading about them 😊👍
Hi all tweeks I have done , my room has wooden floors the most significant tweek was heavy concrete pavers under the speakers amazing soundstage deep and defined infact pinpoint
Cool 😎
Another slice of excellence Tarun. Well thought out. I'm looking forward to the next post.
Thanks Paul
I love big ted by the way.
Great video. You mention the room, but don’t really get into acoustic treatment. It’s not really if you need acoustic treatment but how much. I hear echo in your room. It’s not your mic. I would love to see a video of before and after installing several acoustic panels (GIK, or whoever).
Chem_E_Mark Mark, it is the mic I am afraid. If I could get the wife to accept the panelling I would have it but trust me it sounds pretty good in a midfield listening setup. 70% of good acoustics is down to speaker positioning IMHO.
acoustic treatment makes such a big difference i have panels and bass traps from acoustic fields in my studio and some dsp tunning , i only have the focal alpha 65s but the room sounds amazing (better than studios i have been in with $$$ pound speakers and amps) , put the same speakers in my living room and they sound like crap (similar size room ) So my next project is taking the fire place down and building a fake wall thats going to be a big bass trap , i will flush mount the tv and fake fire then make the art canvas on the walls into fiberglass absorbion panels , lastly the ceiling will be a full diffusion panel. The goal is to have the room looking aesthetically pleasing and to most people they wont realize its acoustically treated
Hi drumandbassob0007, good luck with your project and thank you for sharing.
Just great to listen to. Like to listen to good speakers -> relaxed. Very good presented compact information.
Thank you Michael 😊👍
I've just stumbled across your channel and am very impressed so far. I am in the process of putting together a decent hifi (perhaps £6kish all in) but have absolutely no room for floor standing speakers. I've been watching as many YT vids about speaker placement as I can but not one has discussed wall mounting speakers. I suspect that this is because it is far from ideal placement wise (especially given the 85cm you talk about in this vid) so I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this and anything that can be done to improve things. I imagine that there must be a considerable amount of folks in my position living in period flats with awkward room layouts a who have similar issues
Hi Maximuscottius, I would choose a speaker that has specifically been designed to work close to a wall. Something like Proac Tablettes.
Excellent video. Thank you for the clear concise explanations. I do gave a dilemma in my listening as percect symmetry is nearly impossible. Woyjd you be able to offer advice for those of us that can't maintain symmetry with the side walls? Am I best to try a diagonal set up in my situation?
A lot to consider in that decision. You may want to check out my Patreon if you struggle 😊
www.patreon.com/abritishaudiophile
Thank you mate, this video help me in every way! Please keep going
That is much appreciated 😊👍
I’m not an ‘audio file’. I’ve spent my life plonking the speakers on the carpet where they are out the way ,as have my family and friends. The notion that there was more to it never entered my head. Only since TH-cam have I had access to knowledgeable people in specific fields. Ive upgraded my speakers, repositioned them and I’m off to buy sound absorbing panels. It’s all good fun, thank you.
Thank you for watching and sharing your experiences LL 😊👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Mate . . . You're an asset.
@@Known-unknowns thank you buddy. Very kind 👍😊👍
Tarun, excellent video, well explained! There are some minor things I would like to add. One: In rooms with critical (wooden) floors that tend to resonate a lot, it sometimes is helpful to spike the speaker stands to slate plates, which have an excellent absorption capability. Between those plates and the wooden floor you can use the damping material you mentioned. Two: not in all rooms is the sweet spot the triangular positioning between the loudspeakers. Sometimes it's worth to start listening at the same distance your loudspeakers are apart and then move in towards the speakers. You will notice the sweet spot at once. The situation in my listening room (which is oddly shaped) is such that my dealer came in with his Dynaudio measuring equipment and was surprised to find my listening chair very close to the speakers (Monitor speakers about 1,80m apart, my ears about 1 m away....). After he had measured the room resonances for quite a while he came to the conclusion that this was indeed the "sweetest" spot of the entire room. Tying in the speakers is inevitable but not too much. A final word: I have been into HiFi for about 40 years now, have dealt with audiophiles a lot and am still a big fan of small speakers....;o)....and liked the ProAc Tablette 50 a lot....
Hi Robertus, I really enjoyed reading your comments. Thank you for sharing 😉
Very helpful video thanks, I'm extremely limited in that my listening room is my bedroom due to disability, so I have very little scope for experimenting, I've got an excellent sound quality-wise across the spectrum (to my ears anyway, bass is weighty, precise and well controlled, treble very clear but not harsh, vocals in particular very good) but soundstage is noticeably lacking due to speaker placement and the elephant...err...bed in the room! I think you've given me a few areas where I can play around somewhat though and try to eek a bit more out of it :)
Thanks Martin, I hope it’s useful 😊
Nice one Tarun. I think that was a pretty good job at explaining something that can be imensely complicated. Obviously the room affects the sound but speaker placement can make a big difference on sound. I think you covered the important stuff in a way non techies would understand. Unfortunately most people simply shove the speakers in the corner or against the wall because 'more bass is better' right?. I do think that a lot of todays bass heavy, overly compressed music is partly to blame for this. Possibly a topic for future discussion?
Thank you Jay, hopefully those who watch this video may be tempted to pull their speakers of the walls if possible.
first time listener...found your video very interesting and informative and i am now a subscriber to your channel. if i may ask, is that your "listening" room? i have some questions based on some observations. i am not by any means an "audiophile" in terms of expertise and knowledge of sound and equipment so please dont take this as my being critical of your information. let me know if i can send you the questions...thank you
Thank you for watching and your support. I look forward to receiving them 😊👍
do you get any reverb from the glass shelves behind the right speaker? what about the large piece of furniture on the left which is higher then the one on the right. just curious....thank you!
Really nice explanations, I was not aware of the reflection timing problem.
Thank you for watching Dunk 😉
These suggestings are very insightful and sound simple, yet in my living room few of them are accountable for without redesigning it into something far less welcoming. I do not have the power infrastructure or space left to move the speakers at any distance from each other. Is there a rule of thumb for a room that is completely asymmetric (but large)? Haven't done any acoustic test yet, but according to your advice, the ideal placement in my room would be one speaker in front of the corridor and another in front of the kitchen unit, or one speaker in front of the balcony door and another in front of the glass front.
One more question: Why not place the speakers inside the shelves at the walls? Zero distance = no delay. It would just completely spoil the harmony of my living room to place speakers 85 cm from the walls.
Hi Fid, too much for me to get into here but it is tricky to get it right in non symmetrical rooms. Apply the principles loosely and generally and it will be a case of trial and error. Sometimes placing speakers flush against the wall can be an acceptable compromise 😊
I always love your videos and appreciate your expertise, however I’m fascinated that I’ve never seen any room treatment in your listening space. Not even a bass trap in sight. How do you explain this ? My experience is that room treatment along with mains purification are the 2 most important ingredients to satisfying 2 channel hifi. Thoughts ?
Thank you for this great video Tarun, I just purchased some second hand Cabesse Farella 400 speakers which sounded great when I tested them...then brought them back home and they sound rather flat...will try out some of the pointers provided in your video...I have concrete flooring so perhaps will go for spikes...many thanks again.
Hi Cosmic Camel, focus on two things... get an amplifier that matches your speakers to get a good tonal balance and makes sure you position your speakers right.
No sure how I missed this!!! As always well done. I am sure you have but with just a couple of numbers... size wise, what is a small room and what is a large room. People might have very different views of that? A city apartment versus a suburban home.
Thank you Jerry. You are right it is a little arbitrary. I would consider a small room sub 15sqm, a large room above 30sqm and of course mid in between.
Great advice and a detailed logical explanation.
Thank you Andrew. Much appreciated 😊👍
Nice video. I would like to add that you should avoid having large and tall objects (like a wall or cupboard) too close behind the listening position. That will cause awkward phasing and reflections and ruin stereo imaging and frequency balance. If you are in a small room and simply do not have the space, try hanging a rug or cloth of some sort on the wall behind your listening position.
Hi erpece, thank you for the suggestion and for watching.
Hey Tarun, another well rounded video. These 26minutes seemed like a much needed one on one. Keep them coming. Unfortunately I haven't been regular and in case I'm hinting on something you've already covered, kindly excuse me, but I sincerely feel dsp needs to be discussed by knowledgeable gents like yourself. May be look at the mini dsp or something similar. Cheers
Shaz
Your room appears to be in a smart, oldish UK house with thick solid brick/stone walls, two tall windows with absolutely no curtains, typical 1990's onwards bare hard laminate/wood floor, medium flat screen tv and mirror on walls. I could tell all that blindfolded by the hard and echoey sound of your (very pleasant) voice. I wouldn't spend a penny more on your sound system or music before getting really good quality heavy lined curtains, fitted carpet or more rugs and putting more soft cushions/throw on the leather sofa. As others have commented it is really refreshing to find someone this side of the pond on the subject. I an retired and have a 20 year old Naim system in my 27 foot sitting room but it is on virtual permanent 'standby' because of the really nice, but pretty close neighbours and a partner into light opera rather than Led Zep and Mahler!
Hi Wills, you made some very keen and astute observations. I do normally have more soft furnishings in the room (cushions, throws and a large fabric chair in the bay) but I remove the clutter when filming. Thank you for watching and commenting on the video.
Greate video as always. It makes me wonder, what if the wall behing the speakers is actually bass absorbtion panel? Would in this case having speakers closer to the wall (panel in this case) increase amount of bass as well?
Using an example, which one would potentially be better for reducing amount of the bass: speakers 50cm from the standard wall vs speakers 35cm away from 15cm thick bass absorber placed on the same wall? Many thanks.
Thank you. Worth investigating 😊
You have earned my subscription!
Thank you. Much appreciated 😊👍
Thank you, thank you, thank you 👍🙏😊
My current setup is that the left side of the speaker there is window/wall and right side is no wall (going into dining room) Any suggestions to make it more symmetrical? 🤔
Thank you for watching WMC. Place a 4inch deep absorber at the first reflection point, made from rock wool or similar fibrous material. Hang it so it has a two inch air gap behind it from the wall 😊👍
this is a very useful video for me. Seems I have some work to do.
Thanks for watching 👍
clear and concise
Thank you Alex 😊👍
Thanks for the guide, it is really well explained !
Thank you Warden 😉👍
Very informative video for someone new to high end audio. Can I ask a question please? I have a similar shaped room with a large open fireplace and deep alcoves. The room is about 13 foot wide, so plenty wide enough to get the speakers at least 85cm away from the back and side walls. I was curious as to how you avoid any bass boom from the chimney breast given that there is no way I could realistically get 85 cm away from that structure?
Thank you. Start with the front speakers 3ft (from the front baffle) to the wall behind them. Move they out 6 inches at a time and evaluated bass definition. Settle on the position where they sound the best 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 thank you so much for that. I will follow the guide and report back! The internet is full of don’t do this and don’t do that around audio, nice to see and hear your real world take around embracing your listening space rather than hating it. 👏
what about some people saying you should never put a television between your speakers? Thanks
Thanks for this piece of advice. How do things like a small table/rack, TV screen, etc. effect the sound that are placed between the speakers?
They can affect the quality of the centre image and with large items cause time smearing. Need to move speakers even further forward to mutagen effects 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks for the swift reply, much appreciated!
My room isn't that big, but bass just sounds a bit too weak from my Elac B6.2. So I bought an SVS SB-1000. It's going to take some time setting it up.
Sound like you are putting together a decent system 😉
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks man. I really like the way the B6.2 sounds, but with some songs I know they are missing some deep bass (I listen with IEMs and headphones too). I know subwoofers can bring lots of room problems of their own, but I'm hoping I can make it work decently while giving me that bottom end I want. Your system sounds great in these videos btw.
Hi brydon10, adding a sub woofer can help with bass problems in a small room. Sounds strange but it is true. Two subwoofers are even better. It is all about having multiple bass sources. Going from two bass sources (main speakers) to four bass sources ( mains + 2 subs) can even out the nulls and peaks in a room. Of course, you need to make sure that the subs are in the right location and set up correctly so as not to overload the room with bass. Think of the subs as active bass management. Good luck and thank you for watching 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Oh wow, well that's great news. I'm definitely just sticking with the one sub for now, but I have heard two is better like you mention. I'll keep it in mind for the future.
When I heard "A seventeen thousand pound pair of speakers", I thought those are some HEAVY speakers.
HansDelbruck53, you can lift 17,000 lb? Thank you for watching.
Thank you HansDelbruck53 😀
Love the episode, love the series you’ve posted.
Question: Why do you place your speakers so their tweeters are located closer to the center of the sound field? Given that they are more unidirectional than lower-frequency drivers, wouldn’t reversing the speakers produce a wider sound field and increase stereo separation? (Admittedly, not by a lot. But it’s free...)
Always curious. Thanks for your time.
Hi John, you can do it that way and you are right it would produce a wider sound field but a less focused central image. Stewart Tyler’s (designers) advice was to have the tweeter on the inside. I suppose he should know the intricacies of edge diffraction with his own design. I have experimented with them both ways and tend to agree with him that they sound more focused with the tweeters on the inside. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉👍
i am a mastering engineer and it makes me giggle to listen to this.....to get the proper sound you must build the room to match the speakers.if your speakers are touching any part of the room youve already failed.
I think I already know what your going to say but,
I have a pool table in my listening room and wonder about reflections and how it would be without it there .
I can't really move it to another room to try.
I listen on a tall drafting type chair and the speakers are off the floor by 2.5 '
They are 24" tall X 16" wide . Klipsch Heresy IV's
They are 9' apart and 9' away from me.
They are angles slightly up and toed slightly out from me.
If you are in listening chair looking at the speakers they are not obstructed from listener , you can run a tape measure without obstruction from pool table even on the inner edges of the speakers cabinets.
I run a sub.
I am getting older and am not playing billiards as much anymore.
I think they sound great like this but wonder.
Super video, thanks. As luck would have it I am on the verge of buying a pair of budget Focal Alphas with the sole intent of fooling myself that I can learn how to mix music. Could you elaborate just a little on what constitutes a lively room. And if I find mine to be so, then, what would be the opposite of the Focals, soundwise. Thanks again.
Hi , a live room will have a lot of reverberant energy due many reflective hard surfaces and not much soft furnishings. In a room like that you would be better off with a speaker with a little rolled off treble and a narrow dispersion. Something like the Buchardt S400s. Thank you for watching 😊👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Ah ok, that helps, thanks!
? Battery powered power conditioners. Any recommendations and how exactly do they work .
Just seen this video. Perhaps the now defunked bose 901 speaker would work well out of the box*direct/reflecting design???
Always worth a try 😉
I am wanting to buy my system, but I know I am not in my final home. Should I just go with what I want (B&W 803 D4, Luman 509x and a Rega Planar 10 or do something else? You have made me have so much trepidation now, but thank you for the great insights
If you love the sound of that system then by all means go for it. You can always change the speakers down the line if it doesn’t work in your new home 😊
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thank you my friend
Buy a DEQX and enjoy almost perfect in room response -also improves imaging and phase response to unheard of levels as any driver or response errors are banished - and that is just scratching the surface of DEQX
You can't correct a room that has room modes and standing waves with this, the acoustics of the room would need to be treated first. After room treatment, you could use it to further correct the balance, but it won't fix late reflections and cancellations from standing waves etc
Tarun - Good insights. I have D48Rs in 12x30x9. My speakers are against 12 feet wall. This is not a dedicated listening room, I have 4 piece furniture (upholstery). Is my room small, big or odd? How does the furniture effect the sound. Thanks
Hi Hari, the fabric sofas will be very good at absorbing low frequencies which is what you want in a small room to prevent bass boom.
Hi Tarun, just found your channel, very good informative & well presented. A question - I notice you have grills off on the ProAc's is that just your reference or does it make a sound difference?
Your Hifi Myths & Misconceptions - Speaker Setup was so relevant as I have 15 yr old system I'm wanting to review in my new house, media room 1800 cub ft (assume medium size). Currently I have Paradigm Studio 20's V3, Centre CC470 + Yamaha NS-IC600 in ceiling surrounds, Yamaha RX-V2500 AV receiver + subwoofer....wasn't happy with sound and was planning to upgrade to floorstanders. Am I glad I found your speakers set up advice re 85cm off walls...I was nowhere near that!!
Am looking forward to hearing a difference tonight after your set up advice. Thanks
Hi Dennis, the ProAcs definitely sound better with the grills off. I hope you get what you are looking for when you have adjusted your speaker set up. Remember 85 cm from the front baffle to the surrounding walls is a minimum to create a 5 ms delay in the reflected sound. You may still need to move your speakers a few centimetres or your listening position just in case you are sitting in a base null or peak. Good luck👍
I appreciate you sharing your knowledge on hifi, certainly since you're apparently dealing with the high end of it on a regular basis.
It's surprising then to hear the microphone set up of your video here making your voice so clipped and raspy.. it's not pleasant at all.
Right off the bat; the video is 27 minutes.. why not divide your clip with time markings of different subjects involved in covering this matter?
Would make it more appealing and I'm sure everyone will be appreciative of being able to cut to the chase so to say 🙂
This was a very early video filmed on my iPad with no mic. I have learned a lot about producing videos since then 😊
I remember Cliff Richard saying he like tall speakers, but that he also liked small speakers. I wonder what suited his listening space the best? 😂
Interesting. I wonder what he uses 😊
I've been an audiophile for about 20 years, and I can't disagree with a word you've spoken here. I will add, though, that if one breaks the rules of speaker placement egregiously enough, one just might pull off a miracle. I more or less accept the view of the philosopher Paul Feyerabend that science is composed not of hard rules but of successful rituals. And new gods may require new rituals. My Klipschorns and my KEF LS50s debate this point constantly.
I love your philosophical attitude and have to say I agree. In the end science is just a series of models that exist whilst they are useful, until someone else comes along and develops a better model 🤔😉👍
My room is only 3.5m wide, so I can't maintain 85cm from the side walls and have greater that 2m between them. So, what to do?
This is a really great video, thank you Taran (I liked and subscribed). Just a quick question please, possibly a silly one (sorry if it is)... You have bookshelves on stands with careful placement from walls, that's fine, however, how can same distances be met when on a regular bookshelf?
Soon I'm getting my stereo returned after being elsewhere for years; I can't wait, and am watching your videos for fun and anticipation... Thanks agian.
Thank you Chris, not a silly question at all. I think “bookshelf” is probably a misleading term. Maybe “monitor” speakers is a better term. You can’t achieve the required distance from walls if your speakers are placed on a bookshelf. Some speakers are designed to work close to walls like the Proac Tablettes but most will benefit from being further out. Thank you for watching and commenting 😉👍
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks too. I wanted my B&W 601s S2 on the shelf, but are on Atacama stands, and that's good, especially with a B&W sub to boot.
... Please, one more Q... At what point do you bin/repair/replace faulty equipment?
Here's mine: my Teac Ref500 went into "protective mode", so is under repair with a technical process called "being swept", which is taking forever and at an unknown cost... Repair or replace?
Hi Chris, if the repair is approaching the cost you would get for a good quality used item on eBay (other sites are also available) I would think about replacing.
Greetings and thank you. As luck would have it, I am about to buy a pair of budget Focal Alphas (to serve the illusion that I am going to learn how to mix music) as I watch this. Could you describe a little more what constitutes a lively room. And if that’s what I have, what would be the opposite of the Focals. Thanks again.
Hey Tarun! Thanks for the awesome video. I've been searching for a good video about speaker placement and yours is a good one. However I cannot find any speaker placement guide based on measurements done with a microphone using the REW software.
Have you ever used the app and do you believe in measurements as a way to get the speaker setup right?
Thanks!
Hi Arm, I personally haven’t used REW or other room eq software but I am fairly confident setting up speakers by ear. That’s is not to say that I haven’t seen room eq systems used successfully because I have. I would suggest to set up initially with REW and then fine tune the setup by ear. This is the approach that most manufacturers take when designing speakers and it makes sense. The reason is that the measurements confirm that you haven’t made any obvious mistakes. Then you have to fine tune by ear as measurement, as of date, don’t reveal all that we hear. It may sound strange but it is true, just ask any notable speaker designer.
Before switching to computers in the mid-80's, I worked (various times) as a sale rep for Phase Linear, Soundcraftsmen, Marantz, AIWA, Yamaha, Kenwood, Hitachi, Teac, Dual, Thorens, Audio-Technica, Shure, Infinity, Klipsch, dbx, BASF, TDK, Koss, Sennheiser, and a few others. Today, my "audiophile" setup consists of a simple bookshelf system. Lol.
That's probably the LAST thing a true blue-blood "audiophile" wants to hear (especially when 90% of their reason for living revolves around bi-wired speakers (with 8-guage OFC wires), 300 watt mono-block amps and 50k turntables fitted with more 24k gold than fort knox!)... but the TRUTH is that 99% of humanity - especially if you happen to be over 50 - can't hear the difference between a 50 dollar setup and a 50,000 dollar setup; you just ain't got the ears for it anymore (sniff...). My B&W 685 bookshelf speakers, 75-watt Cambridge Audio amp and Denon DP-300F turntable/Ortophone 2M Blue cartridge setup sounds simply fantastic! Conclusion? It's certainly not the SIZE or COST of the components that counts, it's knowing which components are really first class for the kinds of music you enjoy listening to (regardless of size/price) and HOW TO POSITION YOUR SPEAKERS IN THE SPACE YOU HAVE... AND WHICH SPEAKERS ARE RIGHT FOR THAT SPACE. You want better sound, study room/sound reflections, floor and ceiling acoustics and proper "toe-in" for your speaker's specific tweeter dispersion angle (wider angle; less toe-in - narrow angle; point those babies at your listening chair). Mike D.
Hi Dwight, there is nothing wrong with a simple bookshelf system. Thank you for watching 😊
@@gardenphoto .. Lol. Luckily, I got out of the industry well before my hearing degraded. Still suspect my hearing is a bit better attuned than most, if only because I know what to listen for. No, times just changed, forcing my interests to change. Today, those computers have also taken a back seat to leisure, camping, and fishing. Now if I can only get someone to cut the lawn at a reasonable price.
Really nice explanation. How about asymmetrical rooms? Also one Side in my room has a diagonal rooftop. Are there workarounds with absorbers or other methods? I think my Sound is really good as is ( good Balance in mids treble Bass) . I got 3 way bookshelf speakers on Stands with Spikes. My stereo triangel is 2,30 m (left to right and listening distance) for reference. Is there something to optimize further? Thanks
Hi Zazmirex, I think this is a classic case of it isn’t broke, don’t try and fix it. Thank you for watching 😉
Question: On an audiophile forum, it was said that it's important to keep speaker cables as short as possible but that it doesn't matter if interconnects between pieces of equipment are long. Unless you use monoblock amps, that looks difficult to do. Like your system here -- your electronics are on the right, close to one speaker, but the other speaker is several feet away, requiring a longer cable. What do you think about that?
Hi Robert, it is not really an issue unless you are looking at long runs of cables (10m+). In these cases you would get more signal loss on the speaker cable than you would on an interconnect. On the 3 to 5m runs that most people have, I wouldn’t loose any sleep on whether it was a speaker cable or interconnect with the longer run. In fact I would go as far as to say that it makes no difference at all. Bear in mind that some amplifiers, like old Naim and my Exposure amplifiers, require a minimum 4m run on the speaker cable provide the right kind of impedance loading.
What I find frustrating of all acoustic videos is they all pivot on the notion that everyone has a rectangle/ square room dedicated for one thing only. In reality a very small percentage of the population actually will have this. Can you possibly make a video on how to get the best results with let’s say an open plan living room, kitchen space or what to do if for example if you can obtain symmetry with speaker and side wall placement.
This is a very complex field. It is hard enough getting it right in a relatively regular shaped room let along those that have unusual shapes. Those rooms need to be looked at on an individual basis. The general principles involved carry over it is just more difficult to achieve acoustic symmetry.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 Thanks for the response. :-)
Is speaker isolation feet really that important for a good sound system?
It can be 🙂
i think you forgot to mention another factor in music listening: the loudness of volume for the sweetspot. you can have a large speaker but play at appropriate volume and you can have a small speaker and play at appropriate volume. you don’t have to fill the entire room to listen to good music. the sound from the speakers cover a certain range like an umbrella and if you are inside that umbrella, you will hear good soundstage. you don’t want to play at a volume that results in too much reflections in the room. you need to control your volume. no matter how you tune your speakers if you don’t play at appropriate level, it will sound shit. if you have a small speaker, sit closer. you want to hear music direct from speakers and less from the walls. small speakers are more versatile because if you have a large room, you can literally remove the wall interaction by sitting closer.
Thank you for watching and sharing 😊
and i am arguing your conception is a misconception.
@@MegaXoz this video was about providing some general rules for people to follow. Of course, listening in the nearfield in a large room with small speakers will help improve perception of dynamics. Most people in large rooms will not be listening in the nearfield.
you have an assumption that big rooms need big speaker to fill it. the problem with this assumption is that you don’t want your speaker sound as much as possible reach your walls because reflected sound is bad to the listening experience. it is actually useful to have a big room and listen to bookshelf speaker within its limited range because what you hear is direct sound. you don’t need to sit nearfield but just within the range of your speaker. big room should not be the reason you want a bigger speaker if you just want good quality sound.
i meant because you have big room, it does not necessarily imply you need a big speaker. the object is not to fill the entire room but to sit within the range of your speaker.
Thanks for this video - time to go break out the tape measure!
Thank you Derek 😉
Hi, so nice to see your video and its very informative. Anyways i would like go ask your opinio about my current situations. Ive been audio enthusiast for almost 20 years now. Recently i bought a leisure chair for my listening. The thing is this , the sound changes a bitb. I found that tha bass becomes hard and not defined welk compare to a foldable chair im using previously . My speaker is Wilson Audio Sasha series 1 driven by Pass labs x350.8 , pre amp is jadis jp 15 . Im using Linn sondek magic turntable . My cables are Transparent super. I tried toe in , changing distance side, back and even front .
Hope you can help me. More power.
Thank you Gary. That is odd. I could see how a large item like a sofa might make an impact but not a chair. Unless it is a high back chair which may be have an impact on the head related transfer function (localise acoustic issues). The other issue could be that the chair is a different height. This will have an impact on the bass it also change the tonal balance of the speaker. Try experimenting with the listening height. Good luck and please let me know how you get on 😊👍
My leisure chair is not high back. Its a mid back chair. I made sure that there is no obstruction or material behind my head. But, the bass tones have become too tight and hard for my liking. Appreciate your help.
@@GaryStaRosa it is an odd one Gary. Hard to advise without being there 🤔
Hi.
Great video with very useful information both for the new and old audiophiles.
What speaker cable are you using with your Proac's? I also running a pair of response 1s and tablette signatures. Under rated speakers.
Do you think power cables make a difference? I know power cable are a touchie subject but with your experience you maybe able to share some insight.
Cheers.
Hi Michael, I use Linn K20 speaker cable, mainly because my Exposure amplifiers like to see a particular load.
How much difference power cables make is very system dependent. Some equipment is more sensitive to stray RF and EMI than others. If you have a lot of equipment in close proximity to each other (interconnects and power leads) this is a high noise environment and a well shielded power cable can make a difference with some equipment. However, I am yet to be convinced that spending a lot of money on cables is beneficial. The electrical properties of cables (resistance, capacitance and inductance) are well researched by the telecoms industry (unlike many things in our hobby) and understood in terms of signal loss.
I have personally constructed my own power cables using Belden and Lapp shielded mains cable with good quality termination and connectors but nothing fancy. I see this as good housekeeping and they cost me about £20 to construct. I also use a parallel mains conditioner, Ifi iPower, which helps to lower the noise floor and has some sonic benefit in my system. As I say, it is very system dependent and your mileage may vary. Maybe this is a subject to explore in my Hifi Myths & Misconception series.
Tarun A British Audiophile m
What is a good track to listen to for good center image
Hi T.j. Bennett, there are so many. Pick something that you know well, well recorded, with male or female vocals located in the centre. If you want a couple of suggestions, try Michael Buble - Always On My Mind and Jennifer Warnes - Pretending To Care. Both are great recordings and your system should produce the lead vocal with a very clear centre image if set up correctly.
Thank you for watching and commenting on the video.
@@abritishaudiophile7314 ty
T.j. Bennett ... Jose James’ track Ain’t No Sunshine is pretty good for the same purpose. 😬
I have a concrete floor with and thin carpet on top, I bought some washing machine dampening pads, but would I be better off using spikes instead?
You are lucky. You can use either but I would probably stick with the spikes on a concrete floor. Concrete floor won’t be storing any significant energy from the speakers.
I’ll try the spikes on my speakers, why not, and put the pads underneath my subs and compare. Even though I’ve been at this hobby for a number of years, I still don’t trust my ears to discern subtle differences so I sometimes don’t like to tinker too much. Or I’m just lazy, haha!
I'm a acoustician by trade (architectural acoustics), and I appreciate someone finally explaining this in such a straight forward way. Acoustics is about managing energy. Great video, cheers from NYC.
Hi OCTOmgnt, thank you for watching and commenting. It is great to have your professional opinion.
I had been looking for a word to describe this and managing energy is perfect.
I have never heard a more intelligent, concise description of proper speaker setup. 27 minutes well spent. I learned more than everything else I have seen on TH-cam combined. I have met a few musicians that taught me some of what you covered. You were intensely through and enlightening. Thank you!
Thank you. It is great to have feedback like that 😊👍
Great post!