Pleas note in the current version of the game the rules are you get a number of fire sports equal to the number of fire tokens in the forest no matter how much you "lost by" so esayer to get deck based victory's like flowers
In my three player game on BGA last night, the guy who always wins and figures out the game instantly ... had 10 movement around the circle on his last turn. He lapped the track and passed the other two players, and had 18 fire tokens at the end of the round. Crushed us.
Everyone has to buy fire to stop the fire player. And, it seems the best thing to do if you see someone going for fire is to not buy cards when they`re first. Also, if you`re going for trees, it's imperative to buy the 11 tree which allows you to carry out the same action twice. That way you can buy two trees every turn.
While I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm always a little amused when people say the Trees player should go for the 11 right away. That's kind of like saying, if you're going to invest in the stock market, first get three million dollars... :)
I agree, you have to make sure you don't give the fire player a bunch of free fires by buying before their turn. If they play well, they set that up themselves tho. And yeah, the most expensive tree in the game is good, but really not needed for the tree strat. You can just go for the wind symbols and buy 1 tree, and move to a tree buying spot on the wheel. ( this does work best in 2 player games tho)
@@monkeyunit4533 Still, the best and really most luckiest combination of your starting hand cards can only give you 8 points for buying trees - and that's including three solitaries, so only one action on that turn. You will simply not be able to get to that 11 tree without heavy investment in other trees and cards first.
This is, for sure, my current favorite game. It's very hard to notice the strategy subtleties on your first few plays, as timing and opportunism are such huge aspects of it. More often than not I've won games on flowers or trees, but it all depends on what everyone else is doing. You've really got to pay close attention to that! Maybe that's why I like Living Forest so much: there's much more interaction in it than it seems, like the fire discussion you had in the end (should you put it out right away or leave it to burn your buddies? Haha). Thanks for the video, guys! Cheers!
Having played the game quite a bit now, I feel confident saying fire isn't overpowered at all, but you always have to be aware of it, for sure. If anything, movement and trees are the most common way of winning and that's likely both by design and preferred. I like this game, it's tricky, especially if a player gets some good tree cards early, but there are ways of mitigating luck. Thanks for the playthrough and well played, Nikki!
Hi! I'm back here for a rewatch. First time I just enjoyed watching you guys play. Now that it got nominated for the Kennerspiel award, I'm curious to learn about the game.
I've played this game a lot on bga and highly recommend playing it there. The easiest way to win is with Trees as they help you do all other things. You have to be aware of the anyone doing fire as it is the second easiest way to win. The flowers are the hardest way to win except you can sneak a victory with them if you buy cards at the right time as they go to the top of your deck. The big thing is you don't really buy a lot of cards when you are going after trees which also slows down the fire strategy. Also wind is very powerful as you take away from the other players goals while increasing your own also it gives you flexibility to repeat the same action. Light cards are way more valuable then when you first look at them. Even though most of the light cards lower your buying power when they are combined with the negated dark card there is a net increase plus you get to add more cards. I rarely push my luck beyond the first round and only then if I can't buy a tree. My main strategy is to get trees, go for light cards, then wind abilities, then plant abilities, and get to the corners of the tree board as fast as possible to get the extra fragments and actions. Starting on the right side of the board is usually a good bet for the extra wind income, if needed, and the extra extinguish action to slow down a fire player.
@@SaschaKleiber I've played this game 35 times and have won 21. I'm ranked 88th on bga. If it's everyone's first game then fire is better but when people know the strategies fire gets a lot worse.
You goofed a bit - at 40:30 you all only take 2 Fire lizzards. You take as many as the number of fire tokens out, not the amount you're not protected against. That mistake really hurt Dave in this game :S Also, not that it mattered, but you misinterpreted the tie breaker rule. All players with 12 or more of something add up all their points of the 3 victory conditions, and whoever has the most total wins. Doesn't matter if they have 'most' in one category.
LOL, Boy, yeah... where did I get that rule from? :) As you said, the "good" news was that it hurt me the most. Nothing like having the rules explainer mess something up - or forget something until halfway through the game - that then totally benefits themselves :) I think we've all been at a table where that's happened to us (*cough* Mark *cough* *cough* :p)
As for the "tie-breaker," I think the reason I made that mistake is partly illustrated by you ALSO using the word "tie-breaker"... because it's NOT actually a tie-breaker. If it were a tie-breaker, then you COULD just add up the other two, right? You have 12 Trees, I have 12 Fire, what's the total of our other two things..? But if you have 12 Trees, and I have 13 Fire, according to the rules (that I messed up), you look at the total for all three. There's no literal tie... it's that more than one player reached a victory condition. I think if I'd seen it that way more clearly - not had the word "tie" in my head - I would have gotten this one right.
In my experience the flower strategy works only if you have a few fragments on the last round. Building the central row with flower trees like Dave intended, and then two more to get the fragments from the corners. Just don‘t get burned.
Flower strat can work, but I don't think buying those 2 trees as first actions is the best way to do so. Better to invest early trees into extra icons, and then start buying the flowers. The other players normally don't buy the flowers anyway, so you can leave them for later.
Lincoln the part you are missing on the tree strategy is that you CAN buy more than one tree per round. All you have to do is use your movement to go to a +tree action space, buy a tree, and then use your second action to buy another tree. This is way easier than it sounds, because the tree spaces are only 6 spaces apart on the circular board, and you can start each turn with 4 movement very easily (buy the +1 and +2 movement trees, and fill in the +1 movement tree column first). This strategy will also allow you to steal other people's starting trees since you are moving so much. I won on the 6th turn with this strategy on BGA with bad card pulls (some rounds I only pulled 2-3 cards). It seems unbeatable to me but I need to play more to know for sure. So far haven't seen it lose.
Great intro by Dave v.funny. I think the balance of this game seems a bit out but I guess need to see several plays - has anyone played this game is it quite balanced with fire
We've played it again several times since and with everyone paying attention that strategy hasn't won unless it was a tied win. Thanks for the note and for watching-Lincoln
Mystic Vale + Meadow = Living Forest...in many ways, mechanically it's a LOT like Mystic Vale, just without the card crafting stuff...add in Meadow style board and tableau building (and the cute animal art) and viola. I do think that's a good thing, as both Meadow and Mystic Vale are great games, but I don't see any way for this game to escape the comparisons.
Just in case: You played the penalty rule with the fire cards wrong during that video. You get one of those penalty fire cards added to your deck per fire TOKEN when you can’t defend the fire as a whole, NOT per missing water. In that video, Dave should have gotten 2 fire penalty cards instead of the 5 he took. Big difference for the flower strategy.
I think a strategy to prevent a player from getting too many fires is to not buy a lot of cards before the 1 player token is about to move to that player. That way they wont get the opportunity to buy all the fire first.
That would help but if a player is going for flowers they need to buy as many cards as possible as often as possible that have the flowers. Thanks for the note and for watching-Lincoln
It is always very satisfying to see Nikki win a game. If alone for the fact that the End Discussions section is twice as long, because the competitive males try to endlessly explain around it, stopping just short of saying something's fundamentally wrong with the game. If Aaron would have been there, you'd have to raise that to factor 3...
its the calories from all that fire wat if fire goal was won by who gathers the last flame that summed with the other players' firetokens reaches the goal number (maybe adjust by player count?) and flowers also on all the players' trees and tokens should decrease that goal number...
seems like an unbalanced almost broken game design. I mean there are three ways to win (fire, trees, flowers) but the fire way is sooo easy that other players actively need to work against it. it's like choosing your strategy at the beginning, writing it down and then comparing. and if only one player has chosen fire then this is the winner. ....you dont even need to start playing. ;-)
Yes, other players need to ensure that someone doesn't get all the fire, similar to how in most games you try not to let one player score all the points. In my experience, you can't settle on a strategy from the get-go, but need to adapt based on what others are doing, and they'll adapt to your actions. Opportunities often relate to turn order, such as realizing you can collect just enough fire that you're not damaged, while other players are, thereby stomping on their deck-building efforts. -WEM
Pleas note in the current version of the game the rules are you get a number of fire sports equal to the number of fire tokens in the forest no matter how much you "lost by" so esayer to get deck based victory's like flowers
In my three player game on BGA last night, the guy who always wins and figures out the game instantly ... had 10 movement around the circle on his last turn. He lapped the track and passed the other two players, and had 18 fire tokens at the end of the round. Crushed us.
Everyone has to buy fire to stop the fire player. And, it seems the best thing to do if you see someone going for fire is to not buy cards when they`re first. Also, if you`re going for trees, it's imperative to buy the 11 tree which allows you to carry out the same action twice. That way you can buy two trees every turn.
While I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm always a little amused when people say the Trees player should go for the 11 right away. That's kind of like saying, if you're going to invest in the stock market, first get three million dollars... :)
I agree, you have to make sure you don't give the fire player a bunch of free fires by buying before their turn. If they play well, they set that up themselves tho.
And yeah, the most expensive tree in the game is good, but really not needed for the tree strat. You can just go for the wind symbols and buy 1 tree, and move to a tree buying spot on the wheel. ( this does work best in 2 player games tho)
@@monkeyunit4533 Still, the best and really most luckiest combination of your starting hand cards can only give you 8 points for buying trees - and that's including three solitaries, so only one action on that turn. You will simply not be able to get to that 11 tree without heavy investment in other trees and cards first.
All my questions were answered in the first turn of play. I think this one is a keeper.
Nikki sure was on fire in this Game Night episode
And Lincoln and I got burned :)
And again a great "how to play" explanation from Dave !
always glad to watch Nikki, Lincoln and Dave play new games, this one looks interesting, thanks for the video guys
This is, for sure, my current favorite game. It's very hard to notice the strategy subtleties on your first few plays, as timing and opportunism are such huge aspects of it.
More often than not I've won games on flowers or trees, but it all depends on what everyone else is doing. You've really got to pay close attention to that!
Maybe that's why I like Living Forest so much: there's much more interaction in it than it seems, like the fire discussion you had in the end (should you put it out right away or leave it to burn your buddies? Haha).
Thanks for the video, guys! Cheers!
The way Dave flips over cards is so satisfying
Absolutely - SUCH a satisfying sound.
i kinda disagree...to me its like he's bending the cards
I really like this game. It’s soooo frustrating but oh so rewarding when you finally win.
This one is so much fun! What a great video!
Having played the game quite a bit now, I feel confident saying fire isn't overpowered at all, but you always have to be aware of it, for sure. If anything, movement and trees are the most common way of winning and that's likely both by design and preferred. I like this game, it's tricky, especially if a player gets some good tree cards early, but there are ways of mitigating luck. Thanks for the playthrough and well played, Nikki!
My oh my.. Game bought.. Lets hopemit won't collect dust ❤️
Hi! I'm back here for a rewatch. First time I just enjoyed watching you guys play. Now that it got nominated for the Kennerspiel award, I'm curious to learn about the game.
I've played this game a lot on bga and highly recommend playing it there. The easiest way to win is with Trees as they help you do all other things. You have to be aware of the anyone doing fire as it is the second easiest way to win. The flowers are the hardest way to win except you can sneak a victory with them if you buy cards at the right time as they go to the top of your deck. The big thing is you don't really buy a lot of cards when you are going after trees which also slows down the fire strategy.
Also wind is very powerful as you take away from the other players goals while increasing your own also it gives you flexibility to repeat the same action. Light cards are way more valuable then when you first look at them. Even though most of the light cards lower your buying power when they are combined with the negated dark card there is a net increase plus you get to add more cards.
I rarely push my luck beyond the first round and only then if I can't buy a tree. My main strategy is to get trees, go for light cards, then wind abilities, then plant abilities, and get to the corners of the tree board as fast as possible to get the extra fragments and actions. Starting on the right side of the board is usually a good bet for the extra wind income, if needed, and the extra extinguish action to slow down a fire player.
Actually fire is BY FAR the easiest way to win.
@@SaschaKleiber I've played this game 35 times and have won 21. I'm ranked 88th on bga. If it's everyone's first game then fire is better but when people know the strategies fire gets a lot worse.
You goofed a bit - at 40:30 you all only take 2 Fire lizzards. You take as many as the number of fire tokens out, not the amount you're not protected against. That mistake really hurt Dave in this game :S
Also, not that it mattered, but you misinterpreted the tie breaker rule. All players with 12 or more of something add up all their points of the 3 victory conditions, and whoever has the most total wins. Doesn't matter if they have 'most' in one category.
Thanks for letting us know!-Lincoln
LOL, Boy, yeah... where did I get that rule from? :) As you said, the "good" news was that it hurt me the most. Nothing like having the rules explainer mess something up - or forget something until halfway through the game - that then totally benefits themselves :) I think we've all been at a table where that's happened to us (*cough* Mark *cough* *cough* :p)
As for the "tie-breaker," I think the reason I made that mistake is partly illustrated by you ALSO using the word "tie-breaker"... because it's NOT actually a tie-breaker. If it were a tie-breaker, then you COULD just add up the other two, right? You have 12 Trees, I have 12 Fire, what's the total of our other two things..? But if you have 12 Trees, and I have 13 Fire, according to the rules (that I messed up), you look at the total for all three. There's no literal tie... it's that more than one player reached a victory condition. I think if I'd seen it that way more clearly - not had the word "tie" in my head - I would have gotten this one right.
Living Nikki's hair colour! And thanks for the solid video as always 🤗
Great playthrough. 😊
I really enjoyed this and have to admit the art looks very lovely. One to grab for me, thank you!
I have been watching Gamenight since forever, never had a boring episode. Love you guys! Keep it up :D
In my experience the flower strategy works only if you have a few fragments on the last round. Building the central row with flower trees like Dave intended, and then two more to get the fragments from the corners. Just don‘t get burned.
Flower strat can work, but I don't think buying those 2 trees as first actions is the best way to do so. Better to invest early trees into extra icons, and then start buying the flowers. The other players normally don't buy the flowers anyway, so you can leave them for later.
Thanks for the playthrough. I hadn't realised that you can take multiple of the same tree.
Looks like a fun game! I'm hoping to see you guys play Ark Nova and Terraforming Mars Ares Expedition
So glad you guys are back at it !! i missed my boardgame TV!!
Thanks! We actually have been at it for over 9 years and are getting ready for our 10th season! You have a lot of episodes to catch up on :-) -Lincoln
Lincoln the part you are missing on the tree strategy is that you CAN buy more than one tree per round. All you have to do is use your movement to go to a +tree action space, buy a tree, and then use your second action to buy another tree. This is way easier than it sounds, because the tree spaces are only 6 spaces apart on the circular board, and you can start each turn with 4 movement very easily (buy the +1 and +2 movement trees, and fill in the +1 movement tree column first). This strategy will also allow you to steal other people's starting trees since you are moving so much. I won on the 6th turn with this strategy on BGA with bad card pulls (some rounds I only pulled 2-3 cards). It seems unbeatable to me but I need to play more to know for sure. So far haven't seen it lose.
The Quacks of Splendor sounds fun!
Great playthrough as always!
Great playthough after watching this I will definitely have to get this game
I rarely catch any .... BUT Lincoln forgets to add a -2 Suns of the Bull when counting his . 51:46
Love the play through - this game didn’t really connect for me though. Looking forward to watching the kennerspiel discussion vid! 😄
Great intro by Dave v.funny. I think the balance of this game seems a bit out but I guess need to see several plays - has anyone played this game is it quite balanced with fire
I played this game with my friends, I won with fire too. And yes, I thought the fire strategy was fairly OP
We've played it again several times since and with everyone paying attention that strategy hasn't won unless it was a tied win. Thanks for the note and for watching-Lincoln
Ive missed Dave!
Mystic Vale + Meadow = Living Forest...in many ways, mechanically it's a LOT like Mystic Vale, just without the card crafting stuff...add in Meadow style board and tableau building (and the cute animal art) and viola. I do think that's a good thing, as both Meadow and Mystic Vale are great games, but I don't see any way for this game to escape the comparisons.
Big Mystic Vale vibes for me.
Thanks for the video guys, fun game! BTW - where do I get a shirt like the one Nikki is wearing? It's really cute!
The shirt is from TeeTurtle!
@@rainkins THANKS!
Just in case: You played the penalty rule with the fire cards wrong during that video. You get one of those penalty fire cards added to your deck per fire TOKEN when you can’t defend the fire as a whole, NOT per missing water. In that video, Dave should have gotten 2 fire penalty cards instead of the 5 he took. Big difference for the flower strategy.
Hi guys! Great one! Would you consider doing a video on Project L ? I think you'd love it. Bye.
I think a strategy to prevent a player from getting too many fires is to not buy a lot of cards before the 1 player token is about to move to that player.
That way they wont get the opportunity to buy all the fire first.
That would help but if a player is going for flowers they need to buy as many cards as possible as often as possible that have the flowers. Thanks for the note and for watching-Lincoln
16:00 doesn’t the white coin also negate a afterwards flipped black coin? Pretty sure it is like that on bga…
Yes it does. It counts as a negative until you have a solitary creature. Thanks for the note and for watching.-Lincoln
@@boardgamegeek Thanks for the quick response! Keep on playing! ;)
It is always very satisfying to see Nikki win a game. If alone for the fact that the End Discussions section is twice as long, because the competitive males try to endlessly explain around it, stopping just short of saying something's fundamentally wrong with the game. If Aaron would have been there, you'd have to raise that to factor 3...
at 3:36 Nikki doesn't like something that Dave is doing.
I think Dave was having trouble getting the cards in the frame for the zoom cam. Thanks for the note and for watching-Lincoln
500 Games Of Summer
Is Dave okay? He's kinda skinny...
Dave is doing fine and would be happy to hear you think he is skinny! Thanks for the note and for watching.-Lincoln
He is looking healthier actually. Go Dave!!
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn’t think he looked sickly, just that he had lost some weight.
its the calories from all that fire
wat if fire goal was won by who gathers the last flame that summed with the other players' firetokens reaches the goal number (maybe adjust by player count?) and flowers also on all the players' trees and tokens should decrease that goal number...
seems like an unbalanced almost broken game design.
I mean there are three ways to win (fire, trees, flowers) but the fire way is sooo easy that other players actively need to work against it.
it's like choosing your strategy at the beginning, writing it down and then comparing. and if only one player has chosen fire then this is the winner. ....you dont even need to start playing. ;-)
Yes, other players need to ensure that someone doesn't get all the fire, similar to how in most games you try not to let one player score all the points.
In my experience, you can't settle on a strategy from the get-go, but need to adapt based on what others are doing, and they'll adapt to your actions. Opportunities often relate to turn order, such as realizing you can collect just enough fire that you're not damaged, while other players are, thereby stomping on their deck-building efforts. -WEM