Hello! Just chiming in to say that: 1. No, I am not an AI and yes, I can sound like Dracula, and 2: I hear the concerns and critiques about the music choices. I am sorry it is hindering your viewing experience, but I cannot change it now. If I could, trust me - I would. All I can say is that I will know better in the future. EDIT: So apparently Warner Bros. have claimed entire sections of the video as theirs, which has in turn made this video ineligible for monetization. First of all - they tried to claim everything between certain time stamps, with some of their claims spanning up to ten minutes of watch time. This comment before the edit was about the less than good music choices, but WB have claimed parts that are actually made up solely of those music choices and do not even include any of their footage. So if you want to blame anyone for the existence of these sick beats, blame them, as they felt inclined to claim them for whatever reason. Second of all - during these sections, you might see part of the view blurred. Of course, I could keep this video unmonetized, but bills need to be paid. I also think it is simply unfair for them to try and claim a video which simply falls under fair use. I hope these blurs won't ruin your experience too much. I know that I hate massacring my own video in this way, but it is what it is. Anyhow, thanks again WB for recognizing my musical talent and taking some of my work under your wing
You’re slow asf then lol. Him having multiple personality disorders is something that has always been there, it’s just more expanded on in season 4. Idk what you find complex here lol. Season 4 is actually one the best seasons. S4 and S1. But I’m curious, what’s not grounded in reality in the later seasons?
The reason why the last season is repetitive is because they ran out of original ideas from the actual story writer cause in her book Joe dies, so they rehashed her ideas, kept Joe alive to prolong the series for more money. Writers are really important to the production. As you can see, without the original writer's voice the corporate directors don't know how to be more creative cause that's not their strength.
Netflix has a bad habit of giving too many seasons to shows that should've been ended while they were still good. Netflix also has a bad habit of canceling shows early that we are on the edge of our seats waiting for the next season. Netflix is like millions or billions in debt & keeps making the same mistakes over & over.
Sadly, this is true. Not just Netflix is responsible for canceling many good shows, it is common across the board. Sometimes a show needs some time to breathe for it to find an audience. Who doesn't remember the 'Firefly' show, that was canceled after not even a full season, only to be a complete smash hit with fans after it got put out on DVD. They even made a live action movie after it to tie into loose ends and give some sort of closure for the fans, which was also a succes. Despite the network breaking up the series by showing the episodes in the wrong order and pulling the plug way too early, quality always finds a way.
The first season was a perfect limited series. It's terrifyingly realistic, especially to female viewers. The following seasons are mostly fun, but completely cheapen the depiction of stalking and domestic violence.
Here's the thing. I think the reason why it started out as good is because it followed the original writer's story. Good writing is what makes the show/movie. The disorganized season was made by other people where the writer had less of a voice. Joe was supposed to die, but Netflix was greedy. It's crazy how you can tell when a good writer has a say versus it being directed by corporate directors who lack storytelling ability.
Season 1 and 3 are, imo, the two best, but they feel like very different shows. Season 1 feels grounded, disturbing, and very tense. While season 3 is fun, campy, and over the top. Completely different tones and vibes, and i think the only reason season 3 even worked was the dynamic between Love and Joe. Trying to continue the tone without what made it work made the show completely collapse.
Definitely I feel like each season is a complete different vibe. Like the whole Silicon Valley/Cali vibe was like so different to. Even how the film the show and costumes, etc.
also 100% agree!! glad i'm not the only one who thinks this. i could definitely rewatch those two seasons but not season 2, and i didn't even bother with season 4...
I wish it would ended after Season 3 with Love successfully killing Joe. An almost cyclical plot showcasing that Joe fell victim to his mirror. And in a way satisfying the justice component for what happened in S1 but also sort of maintaining the mystery and keeping the terrifying fact that a psychopathic killer (love) still got away with it.
I didn’t like Kate as a character. Neither Love nor Beck were good people, but they were good characters. Beck was so self centered and ungrateful to everyone, but she was still charming in her own way and she felt like a real person. Love was a psychopath and had almost no empathy towards anyone but she was the most charismatic one of the whole show. But Kate. She is so forgettable, annoying, spoiled and dependent on everyone. If Joe’s most recent love interest would’ve been more likable the season would’ve been considerably better or at least more enjoyable
I liked her. I thought it made complete sense that she's the way she is and the fact that she was still trying to maintain some humanity (by being a caring friend and trying to do right by the painter who was robbed of her work) under (consciously) thorny, cynical and detached exterior, while also still being (unconsciously) incredibly privileged, made for an interesting character. I think the problem is that people still expect the female love interests to always be "charming". But why can't they sometimes be cold, with a sense of superiority, and covered with a thick protective shell?
@@sainttheresetaylor2054because Hollywood is absolutely awful at writing them now. “You” actually had nuanced portrayals of female characters, despite them being not the best people.
I think a big problem was how wooden Kate was. Love and Beck weren't amazing people, but they were good characters. Beck was the idealistic but self-centered normal woman that became a victim. Her season was the most straightforward. Love was a psychopath that held up this mirror to Joe. But Kate is just nothing. People say she's cold, but she's not cold. She's aggressively an asshole. She is just so forgettable and rude. Nothing about her is memorable. They were trying to make her like Delilah but, it doesn't work because she was nice to him until she sees him around her underage sister then, she gets him to back off. Like Joe saved Kate from a mugging and she was still being an asshole. Also, in seasons 1 & 2 the side characters of these women were interesting and added a lot to Beck and Love's characters. Not so much in season 4.
I like this take. I really enjoy the show and never really look deeper into things cause its just blind entertainment for me. Enough going on in real life instead for me to be hyper analyzing a show lol - but I couldn't quite grasp what made me not like the Kate season as much and I think you nailed it. Delilah but doesn't work.
But her character was the most real. She treated joe just like any other attractive woman would. She secretly liked Joe all throughout the season but she was pretending to dislike him which made her character the most interesting. And this was also because Joe himself was not chasing her. Beck was very ordinary and boring as hell and love was completely crazy.
The only part I found interesting about Kate was that at the end she basically saved him by having a high profile and money to be able to cover up his crimes. It was parallel to the way rich people are given a pass for doing horrible things if they have enough value in society's eyes. Makes me think that was his plan all along. Nadia's ending hurt though.
Something I had an issue with in season 4 was that Joe only mentioned his son like once lol there wasn’t one episode in season 3 where he didn’t mentioned Henry’s name and then it’s like he never existed after that.
another reason why s4 sucked so much was the fact that kate's actress didn't have 1/10th of the charm and talent that victoria pendretti possesses. that and the fact that her character is just not interesting enough or even has good chemistry with joe. she just doesn't work as a character and because so much of the show is about joe and his obsession on this one seemingly interesting person thus making the season come across as half-baked and lazy.
but that’s the whole point? non of the women that Joe’s obsessed with are that interesting, he just makes them interesting from his perspective. By s4 you should know as the audience that the female leads are actually not that great/likeable and that’s the whole point
They should've ended it at the season where Love died. Either they kill each other and it ends or Love survives and we follow her story. I hate how they had Love begin as a smart woman and then suddenly she starts acting dumb. If I were to stretch it in favor of the directing, maybe he portrayed her as more dumb than she really is when they were married because by that time he wasn't in love with her? But she was definitely a more interesting character and Victoria is a better actress.
@JesuisParte I agree. Also, I feel like many of her actions in season 3 were due to anxiety. This was the family she wanted, and she was terrified to lose it - new mother jitters. Then, she could not trust Joe, and Joe no longer was obsessed with her. When you are with someone who makes you their favorite person, it truly messes with your head when it stops. Joe has the "favorite person tendency" that many people with BPD does. He always has a favorite. Since Love understood that, it made her feel unwanted and undesirable. Think about the mental toll that takes on a woman who just had a baby. She had no security. She felt a lot of pressure to be seen as a good mother, and she needed Joe to be her rock. I think they should have delayed killing Love to S4. S3 should have been exploring them working together more
@@GeekyGirlyGlamYou do realise you’re talking about a serial killer right? If you can attribute anxiety to craziness on Love’s part, then Joe’s childhood trauma can be used to explain his dark side. But obviously not. That’s absurd.
@ritiaggarwal995 Did you watch Season 4? Joe has his trauma but he blamed everything on Love. It was not fully her fault. It's traumatizing when a person who was obsessed/in love with you fully falls out of love and blames it on you. If you seen season 2 and season 3, you know that anytime she feels anxious, she impulsively kills. Even Joe recognized that but many of his actions in S3 made it worse for her. If talking about serial killers is making you uncomfortable, this isn't the show for you.
When Love died, I was really disappointed and over it. I was actually let down when Love protected Joe and killed for him and set him free from the little locked room. AND HE WAS ANGRY lol. From that point he didn’t like her anymore, and I was expecting the opposite reaction from him. And him cheating on her with the neighbor immediately, just felt cheap.
Yes, the fact that he lost all respect and love for her because she killed Delilah. Disclaimer: They are both bad people, and there's no good reason for murdering people. Disclaimer over. I get that Joe has a code that you don't kill people that good people, but Love has code too, which is you do whatever it takes to protect the people that you love. But, he just gives up on her like she's nothing after he could have gotten away with everything the night before, but he chose to stay in LA to have a shot with her. (I don't remember it perfectly.)
Love killed Delilah and Candace because she wouldn't be able to date Joe if they sent her to jail, not because she cared about Joe's wellbeing. . Love didn't love Joe. It was obsession, just like when Joe gets obsessed with girls. The whole point is she is his mirror, the same as him. Not better or more caring.
I think Joe cheating on love made sense bc his character is more about lusting after his victims. And understandably he couldn’t lust after what’s already his.
The first season was written well enough to convince me how Joe could get away with the things he did, even murder. The 2nd and 3rd season, they had Love and her family's money as a McGuffin to help let Joe get away with his crimes. Not to mention Love was definitely an interesting character and went from compelling love interest to captivating foil for Joe. I watched Season 3 for her just as much as for Joe. But season 4?? Very bad writing, illogical plots, and bad characters (and way too many focused on). The ending made no sense. Kate wasnt interesting. And the final revea l was very lame. Show should have ended with Love and Joe's fate in Europe being a mystery forever.
@@Taurean_SAMAThe show uses it as an excuse for plot convenience too many times. They use the “HEY this actually HapPEnS IrL” schtick as an excuse for lazy writing
i mean, we are suppose to hate joe. and personally, i hated him from S1. I wanted him to get caught. which is why i dropped the show when i heard Love died, that was my last straw
@@ComedyGlor because the show is doing what it's supposed to. Damn good too.. how many serial killers were seen as "the nice guy" or good neighbour only to be f*cked up murderers. This is showing u as well how persuasive and manipulative these people are lol... You is brilliant and persons who don't get it or can't see it.. I feel sorry for.. because season 4 was actually brilliant lol and inverted/perverted the meanings of "self love, self acceptance, and rediscovery of self" all the seasons are intricately interlaced i cannot wait for season 5 🤣🤣🤣
as someone who loves You so much that i also have the books, i cannot agree more with ppl about it going on for way too long. tbh, it could've just ended at season 1 as a mini series, but if not, could've ended it at season 2. and if they *really really* just Needed that extra cash at netflix, they could've ended it at season 3 and just dealt w the hate bc (as much as i also hated to see love go despite knowing she would) at least it did feel like a finale to something. but deeeeeeeefinitely not season 4. oh my god there was legitimately no reason to go on after s3
I loved S1 and couldn't even finish S3 lol. That whole plot just bored more to tears!!! To think that it continued to get worse just concerns me since it's still ongoing to my understanding.
The best way they could have handled Joe as a protagonist was by Walter Whiting him. He alrwady had so much potential as a anti hero to a villain. It would have been perfect to watch him skyrocket downards at the end only to get justice
@@sweetie_babieI’m honestly kind of lost by all these comments Lass😂😂what are these people talking about? Joe Goldberg is a way more evil person than even Walter white. The difference is anyone with a brain can tell Joe Goldberg is quite evil episode 1, where as Walter white was deep down a bad man but it took more development for him to become the monster he became. Joe is already a monster before we ever meet him. So I’m not sure why op thinks they should “Walter white him” I honestly think these lads just say anything for the heck of it.
No. Walter White was way worse than Joe. Season 5 in the first half was way worse than Joe. Killing one of your partners and giving up your best friend to an enemy after poisoning a kid was easy worse than Joe's antics In seasons 1 and 2, he saved his kids from their abusers and made every effort to avoid killing the last person in the box. Failed both times. He could have been an anti hero then but honestly after Delilah died he was stuck on the villain path
Walter doesn't face justice though. He literally wins at the end of Breaking Bad. He dies, but he accomplished everything he wanted to do. He got money to his family, he admitted he did everything for himself, he killed everyone who wronged him and he saved Jesse for some reason. Didn't have to do that last part.
@@canibezeroun1988 stop it man😂😂joe goldberg is a predator!! He’s a serial killer, a liar, a stalker, a manipulator, and the biggest thing that makes him worse is he’s a women’s predator. Joe Goldberg is a person you don’t want your daughter to ever meet. Walter white as evil as he was isn’t that. Also joe was never one ever an “anti hero” and wasn’t going to be. He was doing all the bad things I mentioned before we ever meet him in episode 1.
Season one and book one felt like it had something to say, a fresh take on a horrible thing; a way for people to probe their interest in the macabre from a safe distance as we watch a stalker who thinks himself to be prince charming kills innocent girls with impunity. Book two got on my nerves and by book three I got the sense that we were supposed to more than sympathize with Joe-- root for him, maybe🤮 the npcs cycling around him kept making him look good in comparison and I was done when the underaged daughter of his mark in book three threw herself at him. The deviations in the adaptation don't do the narrative any favors either. In season one, Joe's insane luck was both a catharsis to watch (phew, he made it out of that situation vibes) and frustration (damn, I wish he were caught vibes), but you can only hold lightning in a bottle for so long. Eventually, I got straight-up pissed he never faced any consequences and it became exhausting to watch a plain woe-is-me-ass white man a) complain about everything and b) continuously get rewarded for his shitty behavior. Tony Soprano got a fucked up ending, where's Joe's?
@@yegor4093 he was shot dead at the diner it's confirmed because the david chase revealed an alternate ending where tony would drive to new york for a meeting in s5 and the screen would cut to black also and he said that it was to imply he was dead when he came to that meeting and never returned
54:20 I loved that Phoebe went off by herself to teach English in Thailand! Think it was a good character development for her considering her arc during the season
What i found odd bout nadia was the fact that she was so fucking curious about her professors life like i know shes supposed to be this seasons „detective“ but no student ever is that curious about their professor at least not the ones i met they literally could care less coz they got exams and shit to keep them busy like u wouldnt have the time to worry bout stuff like that at all so it was very strange for me to see her being the detective type this season it would have fit better to that one rich guy i forgot his name the one that was in love with kate, to stalk joe and investigate in him which he did to some extend but not a student of his was just a strange choice in my opinion
Season four fails in so many ways to me, mostly through the portrayal of Kate. One thing I’ve always enjoyed in You was its abilities to write flawed female characters without making them boring, copies of each other, or unlikeable. Candace was flawed - she seemed to love Joe, but she also cared deeply about her career, and she was willing to sleep with a producer if it meant getting her big break. And she was unapologetic about it too - the moment Joe cornered her and confronted her, she didn’t relent. She was defensive, angry. At the same time, even after she was left for dead and buried alive, even after she went through an immense trauma and had to completely overhaul her life, she was still strong enough to go after Joe - not only to get back at him for what he did to her, but to keep him from doing the same to other people. In no moment in season 2 you feel like she is only after revenge; she was after justice, and genuinely seemed to want to help other people involved with him. She was redeeming herself from the bad things she did in the past. But, of course, she was punished for it, because that’s what happens in You. Beck was incredibly flawed - she hung out with rich people even though she deeply resented them, she went as far as to tell everyone her father was dead because had a difficult relationship with him, she cheated on Joe with her therapist... (though this last one is hard to assign blame to her for - she was in a vulnerable place, and it is quite common for patients to fall in love with their therapists because they listen and seem to understand them. It was her therapist’s job to shut it down first and foremost.) Still, Beck can be very loveable, kind, charming, adventurous. I never felt during the first season like she was irredeemable trash, and when Joe killed her, I felt for her. The thing with Beck was that she was flawed, but she had her limits. It didn’t matter that Joe was supposedly a good partner that brought her something she never had before - the minute she figured out what he did, she couldn’t take it. He went too far, and she wasn’t selfish enough to accept it. Love, of course, was another level of messed up, but she was written so well (and Victoria Pedretti is so fucking talented), that, even when we heard of and saw what she did, we could still set our brains back to when she was seemingly innocent in our eyes. She isn’t just Joe’s manic pixie dream girl, and she isn’t just a murderer either - she’s more. She can be kind, funny, charming, caring, understanding, silly, daring, down-to-earth... while also being murderous, jealous, great at keeping secrets, spiteful, spoiled, able to use people for what she wants without remorse, immature, and incredibly possessive - people are hers to love, to care for, and to dispose of. And the best part is that, even when she is in perfectly charming mode, those worst characteristics still shine through in varying degrees. We get to see who she is in relation to other people as well, like her brother, her mom, her dad, her ex-husband, her friends. She has a career she loves and is good at, and we get to see how she can both be talented AND be as successful as she is because of getting a leg up from her rich family. She’s human, and that is incredible to watch. And an interesting thing about Love is how she is also utterly unapologetic. Yes, she can feel bad and remorseful and guilty at times, but not about everything. She is unapologetic about being privileged and using her family’s money for her own goals - even though she has a terrible relationship with her mother, she still keeps her around for money, and she refuses to feel bad about that. Love is unapologetic about her murders and what she does to “keep her family safe”. She is assertive even though she can be insecure, she’s confident and she is messy, and her acceptance of Joe’s actions makes sense, because she is well aware of who she is and what she does. She’s not living in denial, which is why she can’t see that Joe still is. That is what blinds her to his disdain of her the second she doesn’t fit his ideal. Even Natalie, for the short amount of time we got with her, was interesting. She clearly had an unhealthy relationship with her husband and his surveillance, a strained relationship with her stepson, an open disdain toward her neighbors in Madre Linda, and it was clear she was unhappy and unsatisfied. Again, she was flawed - she was completely okay with flirting with Joe despite knowing he was married, and, while she helped Love with the bakery, she did so without an ounce of remorse showing for her actions. I’m sure she had more skeletons in her closet outside of being open to an affair, but we didn’t get to see much. Either way, what we got to see did speak of her being more than a one-dimensional character. Then, of course, there’s Marianne. I got to be honest, I fucking loved Marianne, not only because Tati Gabrielle is so fucking incredible in this role, but because her character is the one who is the most grey, in a way. She has good characteristics and bad characteristics, but they’re often so entangled. On one hand, she was a victim of domestic abuse; on the other, her daughter still gets to spend time with that same man. On one hand, yes, she is seeking custody and she knows he won’t make it easy; on the other hand, she doesn’t seem that worried that he might flip out on her daughter. On one hand, she gets with Joe while knowing he has a wife; on the other hand, she feels guilty for it. With Marianne we truly get to see how Joe chooses his victims - he can smell the vulnerability. Because he is always watching them from afar, he can tell when things aren’t perfect, and he uses that to infiltrate his victims’ life. And the thing with Joe is that, not only is he a hypocrite, but that’s a trait every partner of his has to have for a relationship to work. When he thinks Marianne is a bad person, he is immediately repulsed by it - never mind that he doesn’t know enough about her to make judgements, never mind that he is most definitely way worse. Because he lives in constant denial about who he is and what he does, he can cast judgments onto everyone pretty easily. And that is when Kate comes in. Now, season 4 has a myriad of issues within it outside of Kate, don’t get me wrong. And the show has been showing its cracks for a while now. But Kate irks me because there is so much lost potential there. Let me preface this by saying I have nothing against the actress portraying her - she has this dry sense of humor to her performance, this “your very existence annoys me” thing that is very charming for some reason, and she has this kind look to her face that is just great acting. I honestly think it’s the writing that didn’t allow her to shine. Kate, to her core, is an incredibly hypocritical person. That in itself can be a great character flaw, if the writers realize it’s there. And it’s not like hypocritical characters can’t be well written - Joe is one of them, so is Love at times, and they’re still entertaining to watch. The problem with Kate, I’ve realized, is the framing. You as a show already has a serious issue with consequences. Punishment is there all season, but the ones that get punished tend to be the victims rather than the perpetrators. You has such a huge problem with killing the victims, it’s kind of insane. I find it that, while it works with telling the story it is telling, it can kind of fall into the same trap it is trying to avoid. It sets itself up to be a story about the victims, how the minds of men like Joe work, and it succeeds in lots of ways, especially the aforementioned way it humanizes its victims - it hardly ever feels like the show is condoning Joe’s actions toward them or justifying them, even with Joe’s inner monologue being its main differentiating aspect, because it brings up, again and again, through the mouths of several sympathetic characters, how much of a monster Joe is, and we see in real time how he attempts to fall back into denial every time he is confronted with it. At the same time, by having Joe prevail at the end of every season, by having him avoid ever getting caught despite the fact that he’s been set up to have a comeuppance multiple times since season 1 can be incredibly frustrating. If it is preparing the story to fuck Joe up in the final season (and especially if it brings back dropped plot points from the earlier seasons), then it can kind of redeem itself, but that’s a big if with this show, because in the way it is right now, Joe’s victims and everyone around them are very interesting and complex plot points for Joe’s development, but still plot points for him regardless. Everyone else gets the punishment Joe deserves, and he always gets out victorious. /1
/2 And, again, this could be well done, if it weren’t for the show’s inconsistent framing. The problem is that we don’t always get to see Joe for the villain that he is. I’m not saying he should be cartoonishly evil or anything, I don’t actually mind how the flashbacks humanize him, and I get that the show is being told by his perspective, and as someone in such a level of denial, Joe wouldn’t truly see himself as a villain. I get it. But it’s about time You has a shift in perspective so the people around Joe feel like true human beings. I would actually love to have an episode where we get to see what everyone else is seeing - an episode where there is no Joe monologue, and every time he’s on screen with other people he’s standing for long periods of time thinking about stuff while we see him from the perspective of the people around him, like the pathetic loser that he actually is. Just having someone point out how he is just staring for ages without saying anything could already be a shock to the viewers on how people actually perceive him, a bit like that one episode in season 1 when we heard Beck’s inner monologue instead, but more intense. Because, at the end of the day, Joe’s framing is so inconsistent that it becomes hard to know whether the show itself thinks he’s a redeemable victim or a villain at times, and that reaches its peak in season 4. The way Kate’s friends are portrayed is so over the top that Joe ends up being the straight man. Even when they get deconstructed through the season to be more complex than just complete assholes, their lifestyle is so lavish and their behavior so batshit crazy that it becomes hard to feel for them, the exception being Phoebe. We end up believing Joe’s assertions about them, which in turn makes him look the hero of the season for most of it. Things change when we get to see Marianne in the cage (which is also arguably the best episode in the season because we get to see the flip side of Joe), but, even then, the framing is still flawed. By doing that whole deeply, deeply stupid split personality storyline, it gets hard to despise Joe entirely and root for his downfall when we see everything Marianne goes through. Yes, you feel for her, but we also see how Joe didn’t even know he did that, and the fact that they made it so his other personality wasn’t played by Penn Badgley forces this sort of distance between Joe and “Rhys”. We end up rooting for him to expel that personality by the end of the show, not for him to accept it as himself. Yes, the end of the season very clearly establishes Joe as a villain and I really like that, but, even by that point, he doesn’t feel completely self-actualized. It took Joe three seasons’ worth of television to reach that point, and when he did, it was in such an underwhelming way it just didn’t work as well. I do think it’s good that he ended up with a partner, but it would have felt better if he ended up being a character closer to Love - you know, fully feeling like they are able to do anything for the people they love, no remorse. That might be the point they’re trying to get across there, but we had so much time with the pointless drama and so little time with the actual character development out of denial that it doesn’t feel earned. Now, how does any of this relates back to Kate? Well, I see her as an issue of framing. Like I’ve stated before, Kate is a hypocrite. The problem with that is the framing of the show doesn’t bring that up. It doesn’t show that as a flaw. Contrasting that to Love and Beck - Love was constantly called out for her privilege and using her family’s money, Beck was constantly called out for her choice of friends, but Kate is framed as a saint throughout. Yes, she wants to make it on her own without her dad’s help. Yes, she wants to step out of his shadow and she sees him as a terrible person. Yes, she tries to help people who need help and treats people with less money than her properly. All of these things are great, but her morals are inconsistent, and that is never acknowledged, either by the show or Joe himself, and that makes Joe seem even more inconsistent too. She acts all mighty and like she’s above the rich people around her, yet she turns a blind eye to her friends’ misbehavior. Sure, she’ll tell you she despises it and that she would never do the same, but she still hangs out with them. She still sees them as friends. She wants to claim she made it on her own, that she was strong enough to leave her father’s empire behind, but she still acts as if it’s not her choice to be near these people and that she is stuck with them. Simon steals an artist’s paintings and gets them hooked on drugs, and what does Kate do? Instead of cutting ties with him, instead of using her privilege to get justice for said artist, she helps the artist go to rehab secretly. She won’t stop her friend from hurting other people; she won’t take a stance against him. Joe would say it’s noble that she isn’t taking credit for helping the artist and respecting their privacy; I see it as cowardice. By doing this, she can feel like a good person while also keeping a famous artist on her gallery. It’s selfish, it’s hypocritical, and it’s insane to me that Joe does not notice this pattern throughout. If there was one thing we could count on Joe to point out and complain about was the moral failings of the wealthy. He hated rich people through the entirety of the show... except for season 4. Sure, he still postured as having the same beliefs. He still criticized Kate’s friends. But can you imagine season 1 Joe connecting to Rhys to the point that his alter has his face and name? Can you see - even as far as season 2 - Joe loving Kate without ever bringing up her entitlement, hypocrisy, and choice of friends as an actual issue, an actual point of contention rather than just a questionable choice on her part? It’s like he infantalizes her. She’s his ultimate damsel in distress. Again, it could work perfectly well. You could argue living with Love in Madre Linda made him more tolerant of the rich and their lifestyles, and I honestly can see it. And, obviously, I think Kate’s hypocrisy marrying perfectly with Joe’s own and his denial is the reason why he manages to end the season without looking for another woman and seemingly still in love with Kate, because the thing Joe Goldberg always looks for is perfectly contained in Kate.
/3 Joe wants a woman who postures as a feminist, but it’s actually a damsel in distress. He wants someone to save, but he wants them with just enough spice to be interesting. He wants the journey of thinking they’re perfect, discovering they’re not, but then actually realizing their supposed flaws are actually just consequences of being too good, too kind, and attracting people who take advantage of that. That’s the journey he goes with each and every woman at first - Beck looked like the perfect woman, then he figured out she had shitty friends and a shitty ex. He rationalizes that as Beck just needing to be saved from these horrible people leeching off of her kindness instead of Beck being insecure and sometimes using them just as much as they use her. The moment she rebels, the moment she starts showing she actually is flawed and that isn’t just something Joe can wave away with his love, that’s when things get messy. Their relationship looks perfect, everything is going well... but then she cheats on him for seemingly no reason. Joe tries to convince himself he is the bigger person, but when Beck’s reaction to figuring out about all the people he’s killed isn’t perfect, then she is no longer good enough for him. She kills her, and moves on to the next so swiftly it’s like she didn’t even exist. He meets Love, she seems perfect. Then the cracks start showing - she has a bad relationship with her family, a codependent relationship with the twin brother, and a dead husband. But he can wave those things away by just labelling them as “these people are taking advantage of Love’s kind nature and I just need to make her see her worth”. But, then, of course, Joe realizes Love isn’t who he thought he was, and he stops caring for her immediately. Even with Marianne - she’s arguably one of the most innocent women in the show, but her fear of him and the fact that she always puts her daughter first gets under his nerves, and he can’t take it. It’s how assertive these women are, how they’re not willing to turn themselves into who Joe needs them to be, that’s what makes him snap and move on to the next. He can’t take it when women are actually their own people and not just posturing as their own people, because he doesn’t want a real person, he wants a character that fits into every one of his prince charming fantasies. And Kate fits into it perfectly - she wants independence and acts like she is not one of those kinds of rich people, but she is still vulnerable enough to be surrounded by those people and to “force Joe’s hand” into protecting her from them. She’s kind enough to not be a murderer like him so she won’t force him into realizing how much of a piece of trash he is, but she also accepts him, so he won’t feel “forced” into disposing of her. She isn’t uptight, and, again, that kind of rich, but she has enough money to get him to live his life the way he wants without having to hide or worry about the consequences of his actions. And all of that is really, really interesting, but the season failed spectacularly at setting up this point. It spends way too long on drama for drama’s sake, on characters that don’t actually impact the plot that much, on stupid and ridiculous plot twists, all to seemingly avoid focusing on the actual conflict at hand. As a result, it ends up dragging the character development even more, and, despite the brand new setting, feeling repetitive. Seasons 2 and 3 felt repetitive, sure, but they were still enjoyable. Season 4? Not so much. The only way I can see the show going out with a bang is if Joe truly gets what’s coming for him, gets to finally confront who he is and accept it entirely, and, preferably, if this is all done with ties to open mysteries from the earlier seasons, like the jar of pee in Peach’s house, the private detective from her family who was looking into Joe, the countless people he came across while trying to hide his shit, Joe’s brother, etc. At this point, if at least one or two characters from earlier seasons don’t get to expose Joe, then the show is just doomed and a waste of a great concept.
@@ianpitzerds wow this is such a well thought-out analysis, you perfectly captured what i was trying to put into words about kate's character and season 4 as a whole!
@@ianpitzerds omg I totally agree that joe needs to get his comeuppance in order to redeem the show. Also your writing is so nuanced, organized, and articulate! I could read your work all day! You have such a knack for writing, and I love how organized and thought-out your criticisms are because I can see that you put so much intention in your words. Please keep writing because I guarantee people want to/need to read what you write! ❤❤❤
I was hoping so badly that Paco would come back and find Joe. he wanted to protect Paco but I think it would be nice if Joe’s presence in his life actually did more harm than good. If Paco was more perceptive to his lies and actions than he originally thought
I feel like class + privileges was and what you can get away with with that was a huge motif in this season, more so than others. It felt pretty apparent that the show wanted say that Joe only had so much leeway with his 'detective work' was because of his white male and (at least as it appeared) upper class persona. You can kind of see it with the whole situation that happened with the stalker lady and how easy it was for Joe to use her as a scapegoat for his actions. "It's easy to suspect someone like her, but they'll never see the rich white guy coming" seems like what they were going for. I don't really think it's a particularly interesting or new statement, but it felt pretty apparent to me at least that that's what they were going for.
It is obvious but majority has basic level literary comprehension. I'm also tired of people saying the writers want you to sympathize with Joe when they dont. People say this with everytime a the main character is a toxic person.Showing and explaining a mindset isn't the same as defending them. A therapist/psychologist neutral, they're there to give you clarity not defend your behavior .b
I couldn't even finish season 4, which was really sad considering i practically devoured the first three. It just felt like a completely different show and all the characters were unrootable. I mean yeah, the concept of Joe falling in love with someone, stalking them and the eventuall fall out of that can get boring after a whille, but I think they handled it well in season 2 and 3. In 4 they just tried to completely reinvent it and it just turned goofy. Should have ended the show after season 3 with the cliffhanger in Paris, we could have concluded that Joe will forever continue his shenanigans instead of whatever he is trying to do in season 4.
“All the characters were “unrootable” 🤔what are you people talking about? 😂😂I’m so lost first off that’s not a word, and second how does characters not being “rootable” (again not a word) make a season of a show bad? This makes zero sense to me
@raymondsims7042 lmao sorry, english is not my first language but it seems like even you understood exactly what I meant. That I can't enjoy a show where not one character is likeable or intriguing to watch. Do you enjoy shows were you hate every single character and nothing to pull you in?
@@yellowhouse4911 my apologies man Idky I was so upset that day😂😂as far as your question though the answer yes I almost prefer a show to be strictly villains I love a well written villain/“unrootable” character that stuff excites me more, but I can understand why some people don’t like that. I only ask why did you like the show you in the first place? Joe Goldberg is one of the most evil protagonist in the history of television. If you’re someone who doesn’t like evil characters then why did you watch more than one episode of you?
@raymondsims7042 okay you didn't understand what i meant. I love a good villain, I love to hate someone sometime, best example for me Is Joffrey in Game of Thrones. He was an absolutely evil shit and did heinous things, even to characters you're supposed to like more, but I still rooted for him in a way everytime he was on screen, because he was so intriguing to watch. It was the same way with Joe in the first seasons. But after that? Every character became "meh". I dont hate them, I hate seeing them because they're annoying, boring and plain not fun to watch. You probably don't hate these characters you're thinking of. Sure, you may hate what they do or stand for, but you don't hate these characters for existing in the show, otherwise you wouldn't be watching lol
I have noticed this pattern in a lot of Netflix originals. they start out great, but they become too popular, there's pressure to keep making them, and they run way longer than they should have. With You, from what I understand, there seem to be multiple books as well that also have declined in writing, maybe that's why the show here turned out the way it did too, but the same might be said for the books too. money takes priority over genuinely good storytelling. it seems to happen in so many mediums, including games, and it's the only thing I think suffers from this the most. The goal is to entertain the audience for a while, but I'm burnt out and don't want a long story that keeps me occupied only for me to forget. I'd rather have a short, captivating story that burns into my brain. You would have been excellent and more memorable for me if it had ended after a couple seasons. Now it's become so annoying, I moved along. I thought about season 1 for months. I'm so baffled it devolved into a story that quite literally used the "and it was all just a dream" thing. some shows CAN run a long time and still have interesting things to say. But I don't think You was ever designed for that.
I love your analysis. My opinion is there’s a ton of wasted screen time in s4. S1 kept it very tight, one love interest, her 3 friends, her old bf, and her therapist. There was sooooooo many freaking characters in s4 that I could hardly keep their names straight. There were 2 love interests, but neither was “you”, he spent half a season stalking himself, he went to dinner with arrogant rich people 100 times, and then 40 episodes worth of plot gets shoved into the last 4 episodes. If they had cut the fat by getting rid of all the unnecessary side characters, introduced Joe’s belief that Rhys was the killer by episode 2, and cut down all the dinner scenes, s4 would have been much stronger. Also, we were pitched something we didn’t get: Professor Joe! He only had 3-4 classroom scenes in the whole season. Joe’s never spent so little time in his place of work. I’d have loved to see the plot hinge around Joe’s teaching. Instead they decided that was of secondary importance, which was a bad move.
Season 4 felt like there were way too many characters without any character development, it just felt like things were just happening without a reason, which was not the case in seasons 1-2 (and to a lesser extend but still in season 3)
I think Kate kind of always knew who Joe was. With the connections she through her father she could find out pretty much anything about anyone. She 100% manipulated her father to "fix" things for her while pretending she didn't want anything from him. So, she already had the skills she needed to draw Joe in. She wanted out from under her father's thumb, but still needed someone to "fix" things for her. I think It might be revealed that she knew what was going on almost the whole time and used it to her advantage to get rid of her father.
Sounds good. I do think Kate is an upgraded version of Love. Maybe the guy in the beginning... The assassin was also sent by Kate and Joe got fake ids. Plus I don't think Love's father cares about Love or her baby. We never saw him in Season 3.
This is such a sick video. You is one of my favourite shows ever but season 4 definitely lost something. I will say, the end of season 4 got me extremely excited for season 5 and the possibility of seeing Joe get some justice, especially since he seems to feel so comfortable in his villainy by that point. What you said about side characters really hit for me. I will never forget all the complex and entertaining characters from season one and two, but everyone loses that personal touch as the show goes on and as it becomes about “what else can we have whacky joe get away with 🫠”. All that being said, I still rewatch the whole thing often. I love my boy Dan Humphrey 🤝
You edited, wrote, produced, AND made all the music for this masterpiece video? Holy crap, amazing job done! I'm blown away! Everything was perfect, especially the music!
In my opinion it really should’ve ended in season 3. Like shows or movies ending on a cliffhanger sucks, but I feel like for “You” it would’ve been perfect. The last scene of Joe walking through the streets of Paris and saying “I will find you” would’ve made us wonder where and what will happen to Joe, but also tell us that he isn’t gonna change and will keep stalking and killing till he gets caught.
You were so spot on with all of the issues of the show, esp S4. Spot. On. It's like season 4 became such a tangled mess of things I hated that I couldn't even put it all into words and you took each thread, untangled it, and explained why it was a mistake. EXCELLENT analysis, Andrew Reviews. The writers seemed to forget that in every season (including S3 by the skin of it's teeth) had really interesting likable side characters. Arguably S1 mastered the unlikable-yet-enjoyable side characters (Peach, Blythe, etc) plus Paco the "Innocent", but S2 and S3 genuinely had side characters that were so damn enjoyable. Forty, Delilah, Ellie, Will Bettleheim were always a delight to have on the screen. Then in S3 they reaaally delivered Sherry and Carey by the end, the blind librarian, Marienne was really compelling, etc. S4's lack of good character development was half of why I hated it. Though you are right about how the writers clearly did this on purpose to feed the twist, it still sucked the energy out of the show. Joe's "Rhys alter" can still see them as 2D and shallow while the audience gets to have some sympathy for/enjoyment from them. It would feed the twist even better if the audience had more sympathy for them to contrast with Joe-Rhys decision to axe them. I like the way you described the pendulum swings of the season. It is frustrating but believable and within the psychology of the show for Joe to find the object of his obsession to be worthy of all protection while all the people she surrounds herself with are disposable and reprehensible *even though the object of his obsession isn't really much different from the victims*. It makes sense for Joe's patterns to see all the spoiled exploitive rich people to be worth disposing of on behalf of the other spoiled exploitive rich girl whom he happens to be smitten with... But as a viewer, I didn't give a shit about anyone. I gave half a shit about Phoebe but she was still too unbelievable for me which leads me to my main criticism of the side characters of S4... They chose to do the cartoon version of the aristocracy and not the real deal. You don't have to spend very much time in England before you get a better handle on what the class system feels like than what this show depicted. It's way more quietly oppressive than people loudly and obnoxiously (American style?) pointing out how poor you are, how powerful their family is, etc. No one is that overt. It's cold and remote and they try and be more covert in how they talk about it, which is part of how oppressive it feels. They could have done something interesting with Simon Soo & Blessing representing how the old class system will welcome your new money being injected into it's crusty, dying ass but it will never accept your non Aryan blood into it's lineage. It's an insidious mix of classism and racism. That alone could have fleshed out the characters it pencil sketched into the cast. Even the "Innocent" Nadia didn't get enough for us to really care about it, though I tried. Kate was the least enjoyable love interest of Joe's so far, but that is just the rotten cherry atop the shit sundae of the season. And I found it difficult to believe that Joe would have an obsession with two women at the same time (Kate & captive Marienne). They should have explained how the split in his personalities partially fed that. His pattern is to have one limerance/romantic obsession at a time. It's part of how he believes himself to be a Nice Guy singularly devoted to love. He can't obsess over two at the same time unless he splits personalities to protect one psyche's "love" for a victim from the other if that makes sense. It was part of what didn't land for me overall with the whole Marienne thing.
I think the reason Kate seems “boring” is because Joe didn’t romanticize her, he tried his best to view her for who she is. Hence why love and beck seem like such good characters, he was much more infatuated with them than Kate.
The show started focused on joe and his obsession. But the last season it shifted to a bunch of crazy characters that overshadowed him. He became the most normal one.
Loved the video! I only have one wish: please read out chapter title screens. I followed audio only mostly, so it would have helped if they weren't visual parts only.
Season 1 was amazing as it gave a different perspective on the stalker genre without romanticizing it, season 2 I loved cause it showed Joe basically meeting himself, season 3 I liked just cause I think Penn and Victoria have amazing chemistry and their acting together is great. Then season 4... I don't hate it, but it kinda felt like a different show all together that was more focused on a random murder mystery than on a crazed stalker. After seasons 3's ending, I kinda had the hope they would do a time jump to where we start following Henry's story and him slowly uncovering the crimes of his parents which leads to him searching for Joe.
I would have been nice to see Joe take on a Walter White characterization. The way Walter built up to Heisenburg, then unable to escape his crimes, meet his dimise. I think Joe could have followed a similar path.
She was my favorite. I liked her character, the side characters and just the whole storyline of Season 1. I love Love too, but Beck is the OG.. I was crushed when she didn’t make it out alive 😭
Kate was missing something. Everyone is saying charm. Yeah... but it's like her and Joe just got sexual tension. And with Kate's power will be helpful to Joe, I think she's just gonna be used as a plot device rather than be an actual person like Beck, Love, and all Joe's previous lovers. They were interesting. Kate still seem so mysterious idk
S1 is a perfect standalone series. That's what I tell everyone who asks about the show. The rest of the seasons just feel like fanfiction to me. "What would this wild character do under a completely new set of circumstances?" And that isn't necessarily bad. It's just different. I still watch, but just because it exists. Nothing like the praise I had for S1.
Because of personal reasons I really loved season 3. The ending was similar to what I have been through on so many levels. Really could relate so I was so excited for season 4 and then I was like wtf is happening here.
If not sooner, season 3 should have definitely been the end. He meets his match, someone as obsessed as him, and it ends with either him stuck in that relationship (else die) the way he did to other women, or with them killing each other.
Season 3 really nailed what 'You' is all about: creepy, complex, and a bit of dark humor. Season 4 kind of lost the plot early and went off the rails. Hoping the next season gets back to what made the show great in the first place.
They should have made Love the surprise villain for the next season or something. The actress was awesome, and they shouldn't have killed her. You can't compare her character with what came next. It wasn't the same-you can't get better than a girl who's just as crazy, or even crazier, than the protagonist.
I do think Kate is shady and an upgraded version of Love (Season 2). She is too cold. She doesn't even bother to care about Joe's past. Plus she hung out with toxic people. She must be hiding something. We will see in next season.
to me the main reason why season 4 does not work is that none of the characters are likable or have any charisma, you just can't find a reason to root for them
the first season was the best season but the scene with love and forty in the bathtub will forever be ingrained with me that scene is probably the first that has made me cry while watching a show because, the depiction of grief in that singular scene was just. real.
I feel like it kinda went from thriller to camp, but also, I did like the initial writing for Adam. Forty was one of my favourite characters, and the actor NAILED him, Forty's awful, but he also had this weird... like, pathetic type of charm? Idk, he felt like both a hungry lion and an injured puppy at the same time, I really liked it. At first I thought Adam was an attempt at recreating Forty, now tho I don't think so neccisarily. Also I so agree with Phoebe's character falling off the second she instantly stumbled back into his arms. I feel like your proposal for a re-write of her situation would've been nice, too.
I like first 2 season the most. 3 is ok, 4....well it really needs to end in season 5, Joe dies or in prison. If he gets happy ending I am getting angry.
Victoria pedretti and love changed the landscape of the show. The producers probably saw the success the shows shift and thought they should try it again with pedretti. Without her now the show just isn’t the same
I agree,the Victoria Pedretti exit created a void in the show just can’t fill,I think she deserved one more season to ease her character out more tastefully
In my opinion, you’s decrease in popularity is totally due to the ending of Love. Her presence & descent into madness feels like the highest climax of the show, especially with the push and pull fights with Joe - she was the best part of the show so far. It’s kinda confusing because the way the relationship is, one of them really has to go, but for some reason, it feels empty when Love is not around.
But at least TWD had good/interesting characters most of the time. Especially since season 2 onward, all the side chars feel like NPCs from a video game - often designed to be so awful that you don't feel as bad for Joe anymore.
I actually really liked season 4, especially the 2 act structure. all throughout the shows realise penn Badgley and show creators said how despite everything the audience is always trying to be on joes side, they want him to stop and to win. in the fourth season they disrupted this structure, by letting the audience believe that he had changed and he was good, and then twisting it by revealing he was worse. it felt like it was giving the experience that people that know joe having, believing him good and being proved horribly wrong
The show really feels like it should've ended with season 3. Love being joes foil was kind of the ultimate ending and i feel it shouldve ended in them killing each other or something. Love was his chickens coming home to roost, so to speak. Season 4 felt grafted on and like there were no real stakes because he hated the people he hung out with, so being "found out" by his circle doesnt carry the same weight it did in season 2
They ruined it when they killed Love. They could have been the best serial killer couple, but Joe is an ass who just wants the thrill of the hunt. Honestly, it would have been better if they killed Joe off in place of Love, then we'll have a spinoff version of Love finding another person to "love". And frankly, i find her a lot more charismatic and pleasing to watch than Joe
I thought it should have ended in season 3 with Love and Joe killing themselves. However, since they didn't I was mildly interested to see how Marianne would end up being the reluctant heroine who manages to grow from victim to Victor and season 4 would be the last. But now I have no interest at all in finding out how his story continues.
Season 4’a biggest mistake was not bringing back Love in some convoluted illogical soap opera way so i could have Victoria Pedretti on my screen again.
I really wanted to watch the full video but the song looping in the background was a little insanity-inducing! As for season 4, it just felt pointless and like it was created simply to meet a quota. I hate when shows get dragged out :/
The biggest problem of the serie was putting him in more and more unbelievable settings and friendships. 1st season? He's ALONE, with only a little boy that likes him because he doesn't have anyone and Joe helps him out. 2nd season? Okay, yeah, Forty is a weirdo without real friends, of course he would try to befriend Joe. Delilah was also without friends and they lived in the same building. 3rd is where things go downhill... How the hell did he manage to get into close social circle of suburbs??? He's WEIRD and awkward. Yes, he can be charming, but mostly only with 1 on 1 talks. If Marienne would stay his only friend it would be much more believable. 4th season is just a joke. Yes, the whole rich clique is super weird, but they're RICH. POSH. They don't have ANY reason to let him be so close to them, unless they would treat him purely as easily disposable toy (like servants on their trip), but he's treated mostly like they're on the same level just because one of the group likes him and they don't want to hurt her. Kate frequently says how disturbingly creepy and weird he is, she doesn't have any reason to sleep with him even once other than "well, he's near, so I can use him this one time". The fact she's somehow in love with him is straight out of power fantasy harem anime.
I think you misinterpreted season 3 because LOVE got them in that close circle. Did you not watch that season or something? That was a pretty big plot line with love wanted to be accepted
When I started watching YOU I accidentally started from season 4 and I gotta tell you that it was so good that it became my favourite season out of all seasons.
Season 4 was insane to watch as an English person. I felt like they wanted to satirise posh public school people without knowing anything about that world. And they way they all kept mentioning him being American?? There are SO many Americans in London. It just ruined my suspension of disbelief
There’s a season 5 on its way. The only reason season 4 is disliked is because of viewers attention rate. If you can’t sit through a more slow paced season then who’s really at fault
I keep saying this to my friends, that we now live in an age of entertainment where nothing we love really ends. Instead we get to see the things we love fade into low quality nothingness and absurdity. Ending on a good season would require restraint in a situation where theres a huge opportunity for more money to be made. So what we get is a peak of quality at somepoint, and then an increasingly rapid decline in quality until almost no one likes it anymore. When to end a show is no longer an artistic choice but a monetary one, therefore, its lack of viability has to obvious to executives who, in all probability, never watched it. A modern audience has to develop an ability to eliminate or ignore chunks of "cannon" in their own minds. I've basically hated every Marvel movie since Age of Ultron, with maybe an exception for Some of Civil War. So I've simply decided that, to me, subjectively, that's where it ended, and I no longer acknowledge any of the later content as part of my head cannon.
I viewed season 4 as a fan fiction of a nicer Patrick Bateman meeting the cult and realizing the woman he was interested in was more involved into methodical dungeon activities. Kate was a major annoyance throughout the entire season. Hell even her dad was more interested than her.
It’s become too liberal and there’s literally no chemistry between Joe and Marianne. As a black woman myself, I felt like they just threw a black girl in as the object of Joe’s obsession but it doesn’t make sense at all. Season one he became obsessed with Beck and usually serial killers or stalkers stick to a pattern. I’m all for a black love interest, but they did not have any chemistry and it made zero sense. I think a better route would have been to make this a movie or possibly expanding on Joe and Love becoming a serial killer Bonnie and Clyde type duo. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents that no one asked for.
Soooo the show is liberal because the show cast one of Joe’s love interests as a black woman? You say serial killers usually have a pattern, that’s correct, but why does this pattern have to necessarily be race?
Something I would like add is that that’s how Joe sees the characters just as this “one dimensional characters” so he can justify himself as superior. I think how he treated his student at the end of the show shows he has fully become the superior being he thinks he is. He doesn’t have to be “the good guy” anymore but he can be the superior person he always knew he was without fear bc of Kate. I agreed with you w a lot of points you made but definitely understanding we were in his mind the whole time( him being in that crazy state) and how he saw things is what tells you he was just trying “to be good” so he can feel he is superior cuz thats what he understands makes you better but now he knows he is the superior being “the good guy” is just holding him back.
I personally liked Candace’s addition in the show, because we can see from a victim’s point of view the malevolence of Joes character. Especially when she would have flash backs and sudden breakdowns.
i liked the first part of season 4 even tho it was a far cry from what the previous seasons were but the reveal that joe had DID and randomly became schizophrenic and was now seeing things put me off so much
I loved season one because everyone there was lawfully realistic, like I’ve met at least three Becks and that was really refreshing. Also we see Beck as if we’re also the spectator with Joe’s eyes while in the other seasons we’re seeing Joe as a character too and he’s no longer our eyes.
I rewatched the entire show. And my personal gatherings are that season 3 was the most exciting to watch. Even knowing the outcome and twists, it was still super engaging. Season 2 had the best side characters. Season 1 was a solid intro season but with season 2 and 3 in my memory it wasn’t as exciting to watch (so they really stepped up in season 2 and 3) but season 4 was kind of hard to get into again. When the season first came out the first time around I binged it quickly with excitement because we hadn’t had a season for over a year. But this time around it was lacklustre. It did get more exciting towards the end and I do enjoy Joe accepting how vile of a person he is. So I’m personally very excited for season 5 to see how disgusting he gets as a character and how his loose ends reappear to haunt him. I will admit I’m expecting him to go down for everything because that’s what the general consensus is hoping as a fanbase I believe but It would be interesting for him to get away with it all one last time potentially as a reformed man even and have things open ended at where he will go next.
I watched the first episode of season 4 with my friends then ended up falling asleep through the rest. I haven’t felt the desire to pick it back up since
The book was so good and creepy I read it over a weekend because I couldn't put it down. I thought they did a very good job translating it into the first season but idk why they kept it going. Sometimes you need to leave when you're on top, you know?
The depth of your reviews are so refreshing and your research is impressive I love seeing how far you go and how interested you seem to be in delving into varying topics. I am rooting for your channels success
Hello! Just chiming in to say that: 1. No, I am not an AI and yes, I can sound like Dracula, and 2: I hear the concerns and critiques about the music choices. I am sorry it is hindering your viewing experience, but I cannot change it now. If I could, trust me - I would. All I can say is that I will know better in the future.
EDIT: So apparently Warner Bros. have claimed entire sections of the video as theirs, which has in turn made this video ineligible for monetization. First of all - they tried to claim everything between certain time stamps, with some of their claims spanning up to ten minutes of watch time. This comment before the edit was about the less than good music choices, but WB have claimed parts that are actually made up solely of those music choices and do not even include any of their footage. So if you want to blame anyone for the existence of these sick beats, blame them, as they felt inclined to claim them for whatever reason. Second of all - during these sections, you might see part of the view blurred. Of course, I could keep this video unmonetized, but bills need to be paid. I also think it is simply unfair for them to try and claim a video which simply falls under fair use. I hope these blurs won't ruin your experience too much. I know that I hate massacring my own video in this way, but it is what it is. Anyhow, thanks again WB for recognizing my musical talent and taking some of my work under your wing
Your voice is cool (interestingly different).
I actually like the music choices.
I liked the music. It kept giving me The Shining vibes.
The idea that Dracula is doing show deep dives is highly entertaining to me.
you do sound like dracula but i wish everyone would
Your voice is fine lmao don’t let people do that to you
The show has definitely become too far convoluted. I liked the simplicity of season 1. Season 1 was much more grounded in reality.
You’re slow asf then lol. Him having multiple personality disorders is something that has always been there, it’s just more expanded on in season 4. Idk what you find complex here lol. Season 4 is actually one the best seasons. S4 and S1. But I’m curious, what’s not grounded in reality in the later seasons?
The reason why the last season is repetitive is because they ran out of original ideas from the actual story writer cause in her book Joe dies, so they rehashed her ideas, kept Joe alive to prolong the series for more money. Writers are really important to the production. As you can see, without the original writer's voice the corporate directors don't know how to be more creative cause that's not their strength.
@@emilyau8023 Joe does not die in the books?
Yeah he definitely doesn't I've read all of them. There are big direction changes and different characters but Joe is still alive in the books
Äp
Netflix has a bad habit of giving too many seasons to shows that should've been ended while they were still good. Netflix also has a bad habit of canceling shows early that we are on the edge of our seats waiting for the next season. Netflix is like millions or billions in debt & keeps making the same mistakes over & over.
RIP Mind Hunters :((
🎯💥
@@robinn.5710 My first thought! I also really enjoyed the OA :(
Sadly, this is true. Not just Netflix is responsible for canceling many good shows, it is common across the board. Sometimes a show needs some time to breathe for it to find an audience.
Who doesn't remember the 'Firefly' show, that was canceled after not even a full season, only to be a complete smash hit with fans after it got put out on DVD. They even made a live action movie after it to tie into loose ends and give some sort of closure for the fans, which was also a succes. Despite the network breaking up the series by showing the episodes in the wrong order and pulling the plug way too early, quality always finds a way.
elite is a good example of this too haha
The first season was a perfect limited series. It's terrifyingly realistic, especially to female viewers. The following seasons are mostly fun, but completely cheapen the depiction of stalking and domestic violence.
It was a great show not just for females
@@Rachel4momono one said it was. Especially does not mean exclusively
@@IAmVampire01 well amity was wrong
@@Rachel4momothey weren’t wrong at all, and they didn’t say it was just an issue for females
Here's the thing. I think the reason why it started out as good is because it followed the original writer's story. Good writing is what makes the show/movie. The disorganized season was made by other people where the writer had less of a voice. Joe was supposed to die, but Netflix was greedy. It's crazy how you can tell when a good writer has a say versus it being directed by corporate directors who lack storytelling ability.
Season 1 and 3 are, imo, the two best, but they feel like very different shows. Season 1 feels grounded, disturbing, and very tense. While season 3 is fun, campy, and over the top. Completely different tones and vibes, and i think the only reason season 3 even worked was the dynamic between Love and Joe. Trying to continue the tone without what made it work made the show completely collapse.
100% agreed
Definitely I feel like each season is a complete different vibe. Like the whole Silicon Valley/Cali vibe was like so different to. Even how the film the show and costumes, etc.
@@ruquiamulamba6169 yeah season 2 was different too but I don't think it leaned into the campiness enough to be as good or distinct from 1 as 3.
also 100% agree!! glad i'm not the only one who thinks this. i could definitely rewatch those two seasons but not season 2, and i didn't even bother with season 4...
You hit the nail on the head
I wish it would ended after Season 3 with Love successfully killing Joe. An almost cyclical plot showcasing that Joe fell victim to his mirror. And in a way satisfying the justice component for what happened in S1 but also sort of maintaining the mystery and keeping the terrifying fact that a psychopathic killer (love) still got away with it.
You get it! 😢
yesss
Omg that sounds great
I agree with it. It was weird that they just killed love and then carried on as If they can get away with it
Nah that would blow. Glad you weren't in the writing room.
No offence meant.
I didn’t like Kate as a character. Neither Love nor Beck were good people, but they were good characters. Beck was so self centered and ungrateful to everyone, but she was still charming in her own way and she felt like a real person. Love was a psychopath and had almost no empathy towards anyone but she was the most charismatic one of the whole show. But Kate. She is so forgettable, annoying, spoiled and dependent on everyone. If Joe’s most recent love interest would’ve been more likable the season would’ve been considerably better or at least more enjoyable
Well now that I think about it...maybe that's why Joe and her connect.
I liked her. I thought it made complete sense that she's the way she is and the fact that she was still trying to maintain some humanity (by being a caring friend and trying to do right by the painter who was robbed of her work) under (consciously) thorny, cynical and detached exterior, while also still being (unconsciously) incredibly privileged, made for an interesting character. I think the problem is that people still expect the female love interests to always be "charming". But why can't they sometimes be cold, with a sense of superiority, and covered with a thick protective shell?
why are we always so overly critical of female characters?
@@sainttheresetaylor2054because Hollywood is absolutely awful at writing them now. “You” actually had nuanced portrayals of female characters, despite them being not the best people.
I hate Kate too...
I think a big problem was how wooden Kate was. Love and Beck weren't amazing people, but they were good characters. Beck was the idealistic but self-centered normal woman that became a victim. Her season was the most straightforward. Love was a psychopath that held up this mirror to Joe. But Kate is just nothing. People say she's cold, but she's not cold. She's aggressively an asshole. She is just so forgettable and rude. Nothing about her is memorable. They were trying to make her like Delilah but, it doesn't work because she was nice to him until she sees him around her underage sister then, she gets him to back off. Like Joe saved Kate from a mugging and she was still being an asshole. Also, in seasons 1 & 2 the side characters of these women were interesting and added a lot to Beck and Love's characters. Not so much in season 4.
This is exactly right, though to be fair Joe is getting increasingly less believeable over the seasons as well.
I like this take. I really enjoy the show and never really look deeper into things cause its just blind entertainment for me. Enough going on in real life instead for me to be hyper analyzing a show lol - but I couldn't quite grasp what made me not like the Kate season as much and I think you nailed it. Delilah but doesn't work.
But her character was the most real. She treated joe just like any other attractive woman would. She secretly liked Joe all throughout the season but she was pretending to dislike him which made her character the most interesting. And this was also because Joe himself was not chasing her. Beck was very ordinary and boring as hell and love was completely crazy.
I was thinking more along the lines of "just like the rich, with a touch of humanity"
The only part I found interesting about Kate was that at the end she basically saved him by having a high profile and money to be able to cover up his crimes. It was parallel to the way rich people are given a pass for doing horrible things if they have enough value in society's eyes. Makes me think that was his plan all along. Nadia's ending hurt though.
Something I had an issue with in season 4 was that Joe only mentioned his son like once lol there wasn’t one episode in season 3 where he didn’t mentioned Henry’s name and then it’s like he never existed after that.
Tbh I feel like even in season 3 Henry was relevant for like 2 or 3 episodes then he was just kind of there in the background
bruh im on season 1 episode 6 so far, Joe had a kid?💀💀💀
Yes.
Him and love (his obsession in s2)
@@Gem_Fanuga
the fact that I even forgot he had a kid is crazy. season 4 reset he life a little too much
@@Gem_Fanugawhy would u watch this video lol
another reason why s4 sucked so much was the fact that kate's actress didn't have 1/10th of the charm and talent that victoria pendretti possesses. that and the fact that her character is just not interesting enough or even has good chemistry with joe. she just doesn't work as a character and because so much of the show is about joe and his obsession on this one seemingly interesting person thus making the season come across as half-baked and lazy.
they shouldn't've killed love i said what i said
I'm kind of mad because I love Kate's actress but they made her so bland that it's hard to buy why Joe is obsessed with her
tbf most actresses don't have the charm and talent that Victoria Pedretti possesses. :)
but that’s the whole point? non of the women that Joe’s obsessed with are that interesting, he just makes them interesting from his perspective. By s4 you should know as the audience that the female leads are actually not that great/likeable and that’s the whole point
The point of the show is the person he obsessed over isn’t special- they are just normal and he makes up all this stuff in his head making it more
They should've ended it at the season where Love died. Either they kill each other and it ends or Love survives and we follow her story. I hate how they had Love begin as a smart woman and then suddenly she starts acting dumb. If I were to stretch it in favor of the directing, maybe he portrayed her as more dumb than she really is when they were married because by that time he wasn't in love with her? But she was definitely a more interesting character and Victoria is a better actress.
I don't think Love became dumb. I can imagine becoming a mother changes you and your views/character over time.
Nah they should’ve made season 4 the season he gets caught. THEN end the show lol
@JesuisParte I agree.
Also, I feel like many of her actions in season 3 were due to anxiety.
This was the family she wanted, and she was terrified to lose it - new mother jitters.
Then, she could not trust Joe, and Joe no longer was obsessed with her. When you are with someone who makes you their favorite person, it truly messes with your head when it stops.
Joe has the "favorite person tendency" that many people with BPD does. He always has a favorite. Since Love understood that, it made her feel unwanted and undesirable. Think about the mental toll that takes on a woman who just had a baby.
She had no security. She felt a lot of pressure to be seen as a good mother, and she needed Joe to be her rock. I think they should have delayed killing Love to S4. S3 should have been exploring them working together more
@@GeekyGirlyGlamYou do realise you’re talking about a serial killer right? If you can attribute anxiety to craziness on Love’s part, then Joe’s childhood trauma can be used to explain his dark side. But obviously not. That’s absurd.
@ritiaggarwal995 Did you watch Season 4? Joe has his trauma but he blamed everything on Love. It was not fully her fault. It's traumatizing when a person who was obsessed/in love with you fully falls out of love and blames it on you.
If you seen season 2 and season 3, you know that anytime she feels anxious, she impulsively kills. Even Joe recognized that but many of his actions in S3 made it worse for her.
If talking about serial killers is making you uncomfortable, this isn't the show for you.
I knew season 4 was going downhill fast when I didn’t care what happened to any character except Marienne.
EXACTLY
When Love died, I was really disappointed and over it. I was actually let down when Love protected Joe and killed for him and set him free from the little locked room. AND HE WAS ANGRY lol. From that point he didn’t like her anymore, and I was expecting the opposite reaction from him. And him cheating on her with the neighbor immediately, just felt cheap.
I just said thisss
agreeee
Yes, the fact that he lost all respect and love for her because she killed Delilah. Disclaimer: They are both bad people, and there's no good reason for murdering people. Disclaimer over. I get that Joe has a code that you don't kill people that good people, but Love has code too, which is you do whatever it takes to protect the people that you love. But, he just gives up on her like she's nothing after he could have gotten away with everything the night before, but he chose to stay in LA to have a shot with her. (I don't remember it perfectly.)
Love killed Delilah and Candace because she wouldn't be able to date Joe if they sent her to jail, not because she cared about Joe's wellbeing.
.
Love didn't love Joe. It was obsession, just like when Joe gets obsessed with girls. The whole point is she is his mirror, the same as him. Not better or more caring.
I think Joe cheating on love made sense bc his character is more about lusting after his victims. And understandably he couldn’t lust after what’s already his.
The first season was written well enough to convince me how Joe could get away with the things he did, even murder. The 2nd and 3rd season, they had Love and her family's money as a McGuffin to help let Joe get away with his crimes. Not to mention Love was definitely an interesting character and went from compelling love interest to captivating foil for Joe. I watched Season 3 for her just as much as for Joe. But season 4?? Very bad writing, illogical plots, and bad characters (and way too many focused on). The ending made no sense. Kate wasnt interesting. And the final revea l was very lame. Show should have ended with Love and Joe's fate in Europe being a mystery forever.
Except it literally happens everyday, LOL. Powerful families are untouchable for the most part, this is fact.
@@Taurean_SAMAThe show uses it as an excuse for plot convenience too many times. They use the “HEY this actually HapPEnS IrL” schtick as an excuse for lazy writing
Joe's student being this ultimate detective is so fucking stupid
I fully realized the show had completely lost me when i found myself CHEERING when i thought joe died.
Same 🤣🤣
i mean, we are suppose to hate joe. and personally, i hated him from S1. I wanted him to get caught. which is why i dropped the show when i heard Love died, that was my last straw
@@xsomili5501there’s a disappointing amount of people that didn’t want his demise from the beginning, and still don’t!
@@ComedyGlor because the show is doing what it's supposed to. Damn good too.. how many serial killers were seen as "the nice guy" or good neighbour only to be f*cked up murderers. This is showing u as well how persuasive and manipulative these people are lol... You is brilliant and persons who don't get it or can't see it.. I feel sorry for.. because season 4 was actually brilliant lol and inverted/perverted the meanings of "self love, self acceptance, and rediscovery of self" all the seasons are intricately interlaced i cannot wait for season 5 🤣🤣🤣
@@nyasha7721 but Joe is deplorable! A good amount of people are rooting for him simply bc he’s the main character or cos he’s attractive
as someone who loves You so much that i also have the books, i cannot agree more with ppl about it going on for way too long. tbh, it could've just ended at season 1 as a mini series, but if not, could've ended it at season 2. and if they *really really* just Needed that extra cash at netflix, they could've ended it at season 3 and just dealt w the hate bc (as much as i also hated to see love go despite knowing she would) at least it did feel like a finale to something. but deeeeeeeefinitely not season 4. oh my god there was legitimately no reason to go on after s3
It should’ve ended in season one with his ass going to jail, I didn’t like any of the characters and felt felt everyone was dumb
How many books are there?
I loved S1 and couldn't even finish S3 lol. That whole plot just bored more to tears!!! To think that it continued to get worse just concerns me since it's still ongoing to my understanding.
@@justyournormalgirl54 Then watch something else since ur so smart
@@user-gn4ju9nm9b I did lol
The best way they could have handled Joe as a protagonist was by Walter Whiting him. He alrwady had so much potential as a anti hero to a villain. It would have been perfect to watch him skyrocket downards at the end only to get justice
I think that's what they're doing. He's irredeemable by the end of s4
@@sweetie_babieI’m honestly kind of lost by all these comments Lass😂😂what are these people talking about? Joe Goldberg is a way more evil person than even Walter white. The difference is anyone with a brain can tell Joe Goldberg is quite evil episode 1, where as Walter white was deep down a bad man but it took more development for him to become the monster he became. Joe is already a monster before we ever meet him. So I’m not sure why op thinks they should “Walter white him” I honestly think these lads just say anything for the heck of it.
No. Walter White was way worse than Joe. Season 5 in the first half was way worse than Joe. Killing one of your partners and giving up your best friend to an enemy after poisoning a kid was easy worse than Joe's antics
In seasons 1 and 2, he saved his kids from their abusers and made every effort to avoid killing the last person in the box. Failed both times. He could have been an anti hero then but honestly after Delilah died he was stuck on the villain path
Walter doesn't face justice though. He literally wins at the end of Breaking Bad. He dies, but he accomplished everything he wanted to do. He got money to his family, he admitted he did everything for himself, he killed everyone who wronged him and he saved Jesse for some reason. Didn't have to do that last part.
@@canibezeroun1988 stop it man😂😂joe goldberg is a predator!! He’s a serial killer, a liar, a stalker, a manipulator, and the biggest thing that makes him worse is he’s a women’s predator. Joe Goldberg is a person you don’t want your daughter to ever meet. Walter white as evil as he was isn’t that. Also joe was never one ever an “anti hero” and wasn’t going to be. He was doing all the bad things I mentioned before we ever meet him in episode 1.
Season one and book one felt like it had something to say, a fresh take on a horrible thing; a way for people to probe their interest in the macabre from a safe distance as we watch a stalker who thinks himself to be prince charming kills innocent girls with impunity. Book two got on my nerves and by book three I got the sense that we were supposed to more than sympathize with Joe-- root for him, maybe🤮 the npcs cycling around him kept making him look good in comparison and I was done when the underaged daughter of his mark in book three threw herself at him. The deviations in the adaptation don't do the narrative any favors either. In season one, Joe's insane luck was both a catharsis to watch (phew, he made it out of that situation vibes) and frustration (damn, I wish he were caught vibes), but you can only hold lightning in a bottle for so long. Eventually, I got straight-up pissed he never faced any consequences and it became exhausting to watch a plain woe-is-me-ass white man a) complain about everything and b) continuously get rewarded for his shitty behavior. Tony Soprano got a fucked up ending, where's Joe's?
Ok but on another topic. The best whodunnit in modern time was Glass Onion, and it seemed they wanted to piggyback off that.
Your last few questions are my exact thoughts. I'm so tired of seeing this white guy fail his way upward and destroy women along the way.
@@emilyau8023knives out is much better
We don’t know Tony Soprano’s ending
@@yegor4093 he was shot dead at the diner it's confirmed because the david chase revealed an alternate ending where tony would drive to new york for a meeting in s5 and the screen would cut to black also and he said that it was to imply he was dead when he came to that meeting and never returned
54:20 I loved that Phoebe went off by herself to teach English in Thailand! Think it was a good character development for her considering her arc during the season
What i found odd bout nadia was the fact that she was so fucking curious about her professors life like i know shes supposed to be this seasons „detective“ but no student ever is that curious about their professor at least not the ones i met they literally could care less coz they got exams and shit to keep them busy like u wouldnt have the time to worry bout stuff like that at all so it was very strange for me to see her being the detective type this season it would have fit better to that one rich guy i forgot his name the one that was in love with kate, to stalk joe and investigate in him which he did to some extend but not a student of his was just a strange choice in my opinion
THATS WHT I WAS THINKING
She was like unnaturally nosy
Frankly a lot of the decisions she made made no sense which is another thing that was bad about season 4
@@christellea.1939you think so? She's believably pretentious enough imo.
It seemed very unreal... Like the entire season. Sometime I think Joe got arrested in Season 3 and we are seeing his dream.
Season four fails in so many ways to me, mostly through the portrayal of Kate.
One thing I’ve always enjoyed in You was its abilities to write flawed female characters without making them boring, copies of each other, or unlikeable. Candace was flawed - she seemed to love Joe, but she also cared deeply about her career, and she was willing to sleep with a producer if it meant getting her big break. And she was unapologetic about it too - the moment Joe cornered her and confronted her, she didn’t relent. She was defensive, angry.
At the same time, even after she was left for dead and buried alive, even after she went through an immense trauma and had to completely overhaul her life, she was still strong enough to go after Joe - not only to get back at him for what he did to her, but to keep him from doing the same to other people. In no moment in season 2 you feel like she is only after revenge; she was after justice, and genuinely seemed to want to help other people involved with him. She was redeeming herself from the bad things she did in the past. But, of course, she was punished for it, because that’s what happens in You.
Beck was incredibly flawed - she hung out with rich people even though she deeply resented them, she went as far as to tell everyone her father was dead because had a difficult relationship with him, she cheated on Joe with her therapist... (though this last one is hard to assign blame to her for - she was in a vulnerable place, and it is quite common for patients to fall in love with their therapists because they listen and seem to understand them. It was her therapist’s job to shut it down first and foremost.) Still, Beck can be very loveable, kind, charming, adventurous. I never felt during the first season like she was irredeemable trash, and when Joe killed her, I felt for her. The thing with Beck was that she was flawed, but she had her limits. It didn’t matter that Joe was supposedly a good partner that brought her something she never had before - the minute she figured out what he did, she couldn’t take it. He went too far, and she wasn’t selfish enough to accept it.
Love, of course, was another level of messed up, but she was written so well (and Victoria Pedretti is so fucking talented), that, even when we heard of and saw what she did, we could still set our brains back to when she was seemingly innocent in our eyes. She isn’t just Joe’s manic pixie dream girl, and she isn’t just a murderer either - she’s more. She can be kind, funny, charming, caring, understanding, silly, daring, down-to-earth... while also being murderous, jealous, great at keeping secrets, spiteful, spoiled, able to use people for what she wants without remorse, immature, and incredibly possessive - people are hers to love, to care for, and to dispose of.
And the best part is that, even when she is in perfectly charming mode, those worst characteristics still shine through in varying degrees. We get to see who she is in relation to other people as well, like her brother, her mom, her dad, her ex-husband, her friends. She has a career she loves and is good at, and we get to see how she can both be talented AND be as successful as she is because of getting a leg up from her rich family. She’s human, and that is incredible to watch.
And an interesting thing about Love is how she is also utterly unapologetic. Yes, she can feel bad and remorseful and guilty at times, but not about everything. She is unapologetic about being privileged and using her family’s money for her own goals - even though she has a terrible relationship with her mother, she still keeps her around for money, and she refuses to feel bad about that. Love is unapologetic about her murders and what she does to “keep her family safe”. She is assertive even though she can be insecure, she’s confident and she is messy, and her acceptance of Joe’s actions makes sense, because she is well aware of who she is and what she does. She’s not living in denial, which is why she can’t see that Joe still is. That is what blinds her to his disdain of her the second she doesn’t fit his ideal.
Even Natalie, for the short amount of time we got with her, was interesting. She clearly had an unhealthy relationship with her husband and his surveillance, a strained relationship with her stepson, an open disdain toward her neighbors in Madre Linda, and it was clear she was unhappy and unsatisfied. Again, she was flawed - she was completely okay with flirting with Joe despite knowing he was married, and, while she helped Love with the bakery, she did so without an ounce of remorse showing for her actions. I’m sure she had more skeletons in her closet outside of being open to an affair, but we didn’t get to see much. Either way, what we got to see did speak of her being more than a one-dimensional character.
Then, of course, there’s Marianne. I got to be honest, I fucking loved Marianne, not only because Tati Gabrielle is so fucking incredible in this role, but because her character is the one who is the most grey, in a way. She has good characteristics and bad characteristics, but they’re often so entangled. On one hand, she was a victim of domestic abuse; on the other, her daughter still gets to spend time with that same man. On one hand, yes, she is seeking custody and she knows he won’t make it easy; on the other hand, she doesn’t seem that worried that he might flip out on her daughter. On one hand, she gets with Joe while knowing he has a wife; on the other hand, she feels guilty for it.
With Marianne we truly get to see how Joe chooses his victims - he can smell the vulnerability. Because he is always watching them from afar, he can tell when things aren’t perfect, and he uses that to infiltrate his victims’ life. And the thing with Joe is that, not only is he a hypocrite, but that’s a trait every partner of his has to have for a relationship to work. When he thinks Marianne is a bad person, he is immediately repulsed by it - never mind that he doesn’t know enough about her to make judgements, never mind that he is most definitely way worse. Because he lives in constant denial about who he is and what he does, he can cast judgments onto everyone pretty easily.
And that is when Kate comes in. Now, season 4 has a myriad of issues within it outside of Kate, don’t get me wrong. And the show has been showing its cracks for a while now. But Kate irks me because there is so much lost potential there.
Let me preface this by saying I have nothing against the actress portraying her - she has this dry sense of humor to her performance, this “your very existence annoys me” thing that is very charming for some reason, and she has this kind look to her face that is just great acting. I honestly think it’s the writing that didn’t allow her to shine.
Kate, to her core, is an incredibly hypocritical person. That in itself can be a great character flaw, if the writers realize it’s there. And it’s not like hypocritical characters can’t be well written - Joe is one of them, so is Love at times, and they’re still entertaining to watch. The problem with Kate, I’ve realized, is the framing.
You as a show already has a serious issue with consequences. Punishment is there all season, but the ones that get punished tend to be the victims rather than the perpetrators. You has such a huge problem with killing the victims, it’s kind of insane.
I find it that, while it works with telling the story it is telling, it can kind of fall into the same trap it is trying to avoid. It sets itself up to be a story about the victims, how the minds of men like Joe work, and it succeeds in lots of ways, especially the aforementioned way it humanizes its victims - it hardly ever feels like the show is condoning Joe’s actions toward them or justifying them, even with Joe’s inner monologue being its main differentiating aspect, because it brings up, again and again, through the mouths of several sympathetic characters, how much of a monster Joe is, and we see in real time how he attempts to fall back into denial every time he is confronted with it. At the same time, by having Joe prevail at the end of every season, by having him avoid ever getting caught despite the fact that he’s been set up to have a comeuppance multiple times since season 1 can be incredibly frustrating. If it is preparing the story to fuck Joe up in the final season (and especially if it brings back dropped plot points from the earlier seasons), then it can kind of redeem itself, but that’s a big if with this show, because in the way it is right now, Joe’s victims and everyone around them are very interesting and complex plot points for Joe’s development, but still plot points for him regardless. Everyone else gets the punishment Joe deserves, and he always gets out victorious. /1
/2 And, again, this could be well done, if it weren’t for the show’s inconsistent framing. The problem is that we don’t always get to see Joe for the villain that he is. I’m not saying he should be cartoonishly evil or anything, I don’t actually mind how the flashbacks humanize him, and I get that the show is being told by his perspective, and as someone in such a level of denial, Joe wouldn’t truly see himself as a villain. I get it. But it’s about time You has a shift in perspective so the people around Joe feel like true human beings. I would actually love to have an episode where we get to see what everyone else is seeing - an episode where there is no Joe monologue, and every time he’s on screen with other people he’s standing for long periods of time thinking about stuff while we see him from the perspective of the people around him, like the pathetic loser that he actually is. Just having someone point out how he is just staring for ages without saying anything could already be a shock to the viewers on how people actually perceive him, a bit like that one episode in season 1 when we heard Beck’s inner monologue instead, but more intense. Because, at the end of the day, Joe’s framing is so inconsistent that it becomes hard to know whether the show itself thinks he’s a redeemable victim or a villain at times, and that reaches its peak in season 4.
The way Kate’s friends are portrayed is so over the top that Joe ends up being the straight man. Even when they get deconstructed through the season to be more complex than just complete assholes, their lifestyle is so lavish and their behavior so batshit crazy that it becomes hard to feel for them, the exception being Phoebe. We end up believing Joe’s assertions about them, which in turn makes him look the hero of the season for most of it.
Things change when we get to see Marianne in the cage (which is also arguably the best episode in the season because we get to see the flip side of Joe), but, even then, the framing is still flawed. By doing that whole deeply, deeply stupid split personality storyline, it gets hard to despise Joe entirely and root for his downfall when we see everything Marianne goes through. Yes, you feel for her, but we also see how Joe didn’t even know he did that, and the fact that they made it so his other personality wasn’t played by Penn Badgley forces this sort of distance between Joe and “Rhys”. We end up rooting for him to expel that personality by the end of the show, not for him to accept it as himself.
Yes, the end of the season very clearly establishes Joe as a villain and I really like that, but, even by that point, he doesn’t feel completely self-actualized. It took Joe three seasons’ worth of television to reach that point, and when he did, it was in such an underwhelming way it just didn’t work as well. I do think it’s good that he ended up with a partner, but it would have felt better if he ended up being a character closer to Love - you know, fully feeling like they are able to do anything for the people they love, no remorse. That might be the point they’re trying to get across there, but we had so much time with the pointless drama and so little time with the actual character development out of denial that it doesn’t feel earned.
Now, how does any of this relates back to Kate? Well, I see her as an issue of framing.
Like I’ve stated before, Kate is a hypocrite. The problem with that is the framing of the show doesn’t bring that up. It doesn’t show that as a flaw. Contrasting that to Love and Beck - Love was constantly called out for her privilege and using her family’s money, Beck was constantly called out for her choice of friends, but Kate is framed as a saint throughout.
Yes, she wants to make it on her own without her dad’s help. Yes, she wants to step out of his shadow and she sees him as a terrible person. Yes, she tries to help people who need help and treats people with less money than her properly. All of these things are great, but her morals are inconsistent, and that is never acknowledged, either by the show or Joe himself, and that makes Joe seem even more inconsistent too.
She acts all mighty and like she’s above the rich people around her, yet she turns a blind eye to her friends’ misbehavior. Sure, she’ll tell you she despises it and that she would never do the same, but she still hangs out with them. She still sees them as friends. She wants to claim she made it on her own, that she was strong enough to leave her father’s empire behind, but she still acts as if it’s not her choice to be near these people and that she is stuck with them. Simon steals an artist’s paintings and gets them hooked on drugs, and what does Kate do? Instead of cutting ties with him, instead of using her privilege to get justice for said artist, she helps the artist go to rehab secretly. She won’t stop her friend from hurting other people; she won’t take a stance against him. Joe would say it’s noble that she isn’t taking credit for helping the artist and respecting their privacy; I see it as cowardice. By doing this, she can feel like a good person while also keeping a famous artist on her gallery. It’s selfish, it’s hypocritical, and it’s insane to me that Joe does not notice this pattern throughout.
If there was one thing we could count on Joe to point out and complain about was the moral failings of the wealthy. He hated rich people through the entirety of the show... except for season 4.
Sure, he still postured as having the same beliefs. He still criticized Kate’s friends. But can you imagine season 1 Joe connecting to Rhys to the point that his alter has his face and name? Can you see - even as far as season 2 - Joe loving Kate without ever bringing up her entitlement, hypocrisy, and choice of friends as an actual issue, an actual point of contention rather than just a questionable choice on her part? It’s like he infantalizes her. She’s his ultimate damsel in distress.
Again, it could work perfectly well. You could argue living with Love in Madre Linda made him more tolerant of the rich and their lifestyles, and I honestly can see it. And, obviously, I think Kate’s hypocrisy marrying perfectly with Joe’s own and his denial is the reason why he manages to end the season without looking for another woman and seemingly still in love with Kate, because the thing Joe Goldberg always looks for is perfectly contained in Kate.
/3 Joe wants a woman who postures as a feminist, but it’s actually a damsel in distress. He wants someone to save, but he wants them with just enough spice to be interesting. He wants the journey of thinking they’re perfect, discovering they’re not, but then actually realizing their supposed flaws are actually just consequences of being too good, too kind, and attracting people who take advantage of that. That’s the journey he goes with each and every woman at first - Beck looked like the perfect woman, then he figured out she had shitty friends and a shitty ex. He rationalizes that as Beck just needing to be saved from these horrible people leeching off of her kindness instead of Beck being insecure and sometimes using them just as much as they use her. The moment she rebels, the moment she starts showing she actually is flawed and that isn’t just something Joe can wave away with his love, that’s when things get messy. Their relationship looks perfect, everything is going well... but then she cheats on him for seemingly no reason. Joe tries to convince himself he is the bigger person, but when Beck’s reaction to figuring out about all the people he’s killed isn’t perfect, then she is no longer good enough for him. She kills her, and moves on to the next so swiftly it’s like she didn’t even exist.
He meets Love, she seems perfect. Then the cracks start showing - she has a bad relationship with her family, a codependent relationship with the twin brother, and a dead husband. But he can wave those things away by just labelling them as “these people are taking advantage of Love’s kind nature and I just need to make her see her worth”. But, then, of course, Joe realizes Love isn’t who he thought he was, and he stops caring for her immediately.
Even with Marianne - she’s arguably one of the most innocent women in the show, but her fear of him and the fact that she always puts her daughter first gets under his nerves, and he can’t take it.
It’s how assertive these women are, how they’re not willing to turn themselves into who Joe needs them to be, that’s what makes him snap and move on to the next. He can’t take it when women are actually their own people and not just posturing as their own people, because he doesn’t want a real person, he wants a character that fits into every one of his prince charming fantasies.
And Kate fits into it perfectly - she wants independence and acts like she is not one of those kinds of rich people, but she is still vulnerable enough to be surrounded by those people and to “force Joe’s hand” into protecting her from them. She’s kind enough to not be a murderer like him so she won’t force him into realizing how much of a piece of trash he is, but she also accepts him, so he won’t feel “forced” into disposing of her. She isn’t uptight, and, again, that kind of rich, but she has enough money to get him to live his life the way he wants without having to hide or worry about the consequences of his actions. And all of that is really, really interesting, but the season failed spectacularly at setting up this point. It spends way too long on drama for drama’s sake, on characters that don’t actually impact the plot that much, on stupid and ridiculous plot twists, all to seemingly avoid focusing on the actual conflict at hand. As a result, it ends up dragging the character development even more, and, despite the brand new setting, feeling repetitive. Seasons 2 and 3 felt repetitive, sure, but they were still enjoyable. Season 4? Not so much. The only way I can see the show going out with a bang is if Joe truly gets what’s coming for him, gets to finally confront who he is and accept it entirely, and, preferably, if this is all done with ties to open mysteries from the earlier seasons, like the jar of pee in Peach’s house, the private detective from her family who was looking into Joe, the countless people he came across while trying to hide his shit, Joe’s brother, etc. At this point, if at least one or two characters from earlier seasons don’t get to expose Joe, then the show is just doomed and a waste of a great concept.
@@ianpitzerds wow this is such a well thought-out analysis, you perfectly captured what i was trying to put into words about kate's character and season 4 as a whole!
@@ianpitzerds omg I totally agree that joe needs to get his comeuppance in order to redeem the show. Also your writing is so nuanced, organized, and articulate! I could read your work all day! You have such a knack for writing, and I love how organized and thought-out your criticisms are because I can see that you put so much intention in your words. Please keep writing because I guarantee people want to/need to read what you write! ❤❤❤
@@splendapacket4211 Oh my God, thank you so much! I love your response ❤️
That repetitive and aggressive background piano makes me want to rip my hair out
I was hoping so badly that Paco would come back and find Joe. he wanted to protect Paco but I think it would be nice if Joe’s presence in his life actually did more harm than good. If Paco was more perceptive to his lies and actions than he originally thought
I feel like class + privileges was and what you can get away with with that was a huge motif in this season, more so than others. It felt pretty apparent that the show wanted say that Joe only had so much leeway with his 'detective work' was because of his white male and (at least as it appeared) upper class persona. You can kind of see it with the whole situation that happened with the stalker lady and how easy it was for Joe to use her as a scapegoat for his actions. "It's easy to suspect someone like her, but they'll never see the rich white guy coming" seems like what they were going for. I don't really think it's a particularly interesting or new statement, but it felt pretty apparent to me at least that that's what they were going for.
It is obvious but majority has basic level literary comprehension. I'm also tired of people saying the writers want you to sympathize with Joe when they dont. People say this with everytime a the main character is a toxic person.Showing and explaining a mindset isn't the same as defending them. A therapist/psychologist neutral, they're there to give you clarity not defend your behavior .b
the real horror of this video is the background music
😂😂😂😂so true
I couldn't even finish season 4, which was really sad considering i practically devoured the first three. It just felt like a completely different show and all the characters were unrootable. I mean yeah, the concept of Joe falling in love with someone, stalking them and the eventuall fall out of that can get boring after a whille, but I think they handled it well in season 2 and 3. In 4 they just tried to completely reinvent it and it just turned goofy. Should have ended the show after season 3 with the cliffhanger in Paris, we could have concluded that Joe will forever continue his shenanigans instead of whatever he is trying to do in season 4.
“All the characters were “unrootable” 🤔what are you people talking about? 😂😂I’m so lost first off that’s not a word, and second how does characters not being “rootable” (again not a word) make a season of a show bad? This makes zero sense to me
@raymondsims7042 lmao sorry, english is not my first language but it seems like even you understood exactly what I meant. That I can't enjoy a show where not one character is likeable or intriguing to watch. Do you enjoy shows were you hate every single character and nothing to pull you in?
@@yellowhouse4911 my apologies man Idky I was so upset that day😂😂as far as your question though the answer yes I almost prefer a show to be strictly villains I love a well written villain/“unrootable” character that stuff excites me more, but I can understand why some people don’t like that. I only ask why did you like the show you in the first place? Joe Goldberg is one of the most evil protagonist in the history of television. If you’re someone who doesn’t like evil characters then why did you watch more than one episode of you?
@raymondsims7042 okay you didn't understand what i meant. I love a good villain, I love to hate someone sometime, best example for me Is Joffrey in Game of Thrones. He was an absolutely evil shit and did heinous things, even to characters you're supposed to like more, but I still rooted for him in a way everytime he was on screen, because he was so intriguing to watch. It was the same way with Joe in the first seasons. But after that? Every character became "meh". I dont hate them, I hate seeing them because they're annoying, boring and plain not fun to watch.
You probably don't hate these characters you're thinking of. Sure, you may hate what they do or stand for, but you don't hate these characters for existing in the show, otherwise you wouldn't be watching lol
This is exactly what I thought too. I couldn’t finish season 4. It simply didn’t feel like „You“. I got bored so fast and was really disappointed
I have noticed this pattern in a lot of Netflix originals. they start out great, but they become too popular, there's pressure to keep making them, and they run way longer than they should have. With You, from what I understand, there seem to be multiple books as well that also have declined in writing, maybe that's why the show here turned out the way it did too, but the same might be said for the books too. money takes priority over genuinely good storytelling. it seems to happen in so many mediums, including games, and it's the only thing I think suffers from this the most. The goal is to entertain the audience for a while, but I'm burnt out and don't want a long story that keeps me occupied only for me to forget. I'd rather have a short, captivating story that burns into my brain. You would have been excellent and more memorable for me if it had ended after a couple seasons. Now it's become so annoying, I moved along. I thought about season 1 for months. I'm so baffled it devolved into a story that quite literally used the "and it was all just a dream" thing. some shows CAN run a long time and still have interesting things to say. But I don't think You was ever designed for that.
I love your analysis. My opinion is there’s a ton of wasted screen time in s4. S1 kept it very tight, one love interest, her 3 friends, her old bf, and her therapist. There was sooooooo many freaking characters in s4 that I could hardly keep their names straight. There were 2 love interests, but neither was “you”, he spent half a season stalking himself, he went to dinner with arrogant rich people 100 times, and then 40 episodes worth of plot gets shoved into the last 4 episodes. If they had cut the fat by getting rid of all the unnecessary side characters, introduced Joe’s belief that Rhys was the killer by episode 2, and cut down all the dinner scenes, s4 would have been much stronger. Also, we were pitched something we didn’t get: Professor Joe! He only had 3-4 classroom scenes in the whole season. Joe’s never spent so little time in his place of work. I’d have loved to see the plot hinge around Joe’s teaching. Instead they decided that was of secondary importance, which was a bad move.
Season 4 felt like there were way too many characters without any character development, it just felt like things were just happening without a reason, which was not the case in seasons 1-2 (and to a lesser extend but still in season 3)
I think Kate kind of always knew who Joe was. With the connections she through her father she could find out pretty much anything about anyone. She 100% manipulated her father to "fix" things for her while pretending she didn't want anything from him. So, she already had the skills she needed to draw Joe in. She wanted out from under her father's thumb, but still needed someone to "fix" things for her. I think It might be revealed that she knew what was going on almost the whole time and used it to her advantage to get rid of her father.
Sounds good.
I do think Kate is an upgraded version of Love.
Maybe the guy in the beginning... The assassin was also sent by Kate and Joe got fake ids. Plus I don't think Love's father cares about Love or her baby. We never saw him in Season 3.
This is such a sick video. You is one of my favourite shows ever but season 4 definitely lost something. I will say, the end of season 4 got me extremely excited for season 5 and the possibility of seeing Joe get some justice, especially since he seems to feel so comfortable in his villainy by that point. What you said about side characters really hit for me. I will never forget all the complex and entertaining characters from season one and two, but everyone loses that personal touch as the show goes on and as it becomes about “what else can we have whacky joe get away with 🫠”.
All that being said, I still rewatch the whole thing often. I love my boy Dan Humphrey 🤝
Also, all the time and effort put into this video is incredible!!
Joe … get some justice?? From what exactly
@@jeremyaht2213 idk…maybe justice from all the murders he’s committed?
You edited, wrote, produced, AND made all the music for this masterpiece video? Holy crap, amazing job done! I'm blown away! Everything was perfect, especially the music!
Justice for Nadia 😭 she deserved better
That's the problem with media. As soon as an opportunity glares for profit, it just keeps banking on a name until it's milked it dry.
Plus, a thriller - by definition - has a very finite half-life. You can only spread it so much until it becomes this as paper & brittle as bark.
In my opinion it really should’ve ended in season 3. Like shows or movies ending on a cliffhanger sucks, but I feel like for “You” it would’ve been perfect. The last scene of Joe walking through the streets of Paris and saying “I will find you” would’ve made us wonder where and what will happen to Joe, but also tell us that he isn’t gonna change and will keep stalking and killing till he gets caught.
You were so spot on with all of the issues of the show, esp S4. Spot. On. It's like season 4 became such a tangled mess of things I hated that I couldn't even put it all into words and you took each thread, untangled it, and explained why it was a mistake. EXCELLENT analysis, Andrew Reviews. The writers seemed to forget that in every season (including S3 by the skin of it's teeth) had really interesting likable side characters. Arguably S1 mastered the unlikable-yet-enjoyable side characters (Peach, Blythe, etc) plus Paco the "Innocent", but S2 and S3 genuinely had side characters that were so damn enjoyable. Forty, Delilah, Ellie, Will Bettleheim were always a delight to have on the screen. Then in S3 they reaaally delivered Sherry and Carey by the end, the blind librarian, Marienne was really compelling, etc.
S4's lack of good character development was half of why I hated it. Though you are right about how the writers clearly did this on purpose to feed the twist, it still sucked the energy out of the show. Joe's "Rhys alter" can still see them as 2D and shallow while the audience gets to have some sympathy for/enjoyment from them. It would feed the twist even better if the audience had more sympathy for them to contrast with Joe-Rhys decision to axe them. I like the way you described the pendulum swings of the season. It is frustrating but believable and within the psychology of the show for Joe to find the object of his obsession to be worthy of all protection while all the people she surrounds herself with are disposable and reprehensible *even though the object of his obsession isn't really much different from the victims*. It makes sense for Joe's patterns to see all the spoiled exploitive rich people to be worth disposing of on behalf of the other spoiled exploitive rich girl whom he happens to be smitten with... But as a viewer, I didn't give a shit about anyone. I gave half a shit about Phoebe but she was still too unbelievable for me which leads me to my main criticism of the side characters of S4...
They chose to do the cartoon version of the aristocracy and not the real deal. You don't have to spend very much time in England before you get a better handle on what the class system feels like than what this show depicted. It's way more quietly oppressive than people loudly and obnoxiously (American style?) pointing out how poor you are, how powerful their family is, etc. No one is that overt. It's cold and remote and they try and be more covert in how they talk about it, which is part of how oppressive it feels. They could have done something interesting with Simon Soo & Blessing representing how the old class system will welcome your new money being injected into it's crusty, dying ass but it will never accept your non Aryan blood into it's lineage. It's an insidious mix of classism and racism. That alone could have fleshed out the characters it pencil sketched into the cast. Even the "Innocent" Nadia didn't get enough for us to really care about it, though I tried. Kate was the least enjoyable love interest of Joe's so far, but that is just the rotten cherry atop the shit sundae of the season. And I found it difficult to believe that Joe would have an obsession with two women at the same time (Kate & captive Marienne). They should have explained how the split in his personalities partially fed that. His pattern is to have one limerance/romantic obsession at a time. It's part of how he believes himself to be a Nice Guy singularly devoted to love. He can't obsess over two at the same time unless he splits personalities to protect one psyche's "love" for a victim from the other if that makes sense. It was part of what didn't land for me overall with the whole Marienne thing.
I think the reason Kate seems “boring” is because Joe didn’t romanticize her, he tried his best to view her for who she is. Hence why love and beck seem like such good characters, he was much more infatuated with them than Kate.
Her character just wasn’t good
The actor had no charisma or charm… she looked too old for him.. she’s not memorable at all
What? She looks like 30, the same as joe. If anything, his love interests are always younger than him
The show started focused on joe and his obsession. But the last season it shifted to a bunch of crazy characters that overshadowed him. He became the most normal one.
Yes, that's true, it's because he was trying to change
I actually really liked Rhys it’s crazy that he stalked this man and we couldn’t see any of it
Because he wasnt Real
@@c01d4ng31so he's just like Joe's alter ego?
@@jakeuu_1502 yeah pretty much
Loved the video! I only have one wish: please read out chapter title screens. I followed audio only mostly, so it would have helped if they weren't visual parts only.
Second this!
Season 1 was amazing as it gave a different perspective on the stalker genre without romanticizing it, season 2 I loved cause it showed Joe basically meeting himself, season 3 I liked just cause I think Penn and Victoria have amazing chemistry and their acting together is great. Then season 4... I don't hate it, but it kinda felt like a different show all together that was more focused on a random murder mystery than on a crazed stalker.
After seasons 3's ending, I kinda had the hope they would do a time jump to where we start following Henry's story and him slowly uncovering the crimes of his parents which leads to him searching for Joe.
Haven't watched it all yet but so excited. i just love this type of deep-dives/commentary/analysis videos, hope more people will see this
I thought you meant you haven’t watched the show yet. I was like??? 😭
I would have been nice to see Joe take on a Walter White characterization. The way Walter built up to Heisenburg, then unable to escape his crimes, meet his dimise. I think Joe could have followed a similar path.
Is no one else bothered by the giant blurry rectangle that pops up after a few minutes?
honestly the love quinn story line had me HOOKED lol. haven't even (and won't) watch season 4. FYI, the book is 100% written in 1st person pov
its only when Beck wasnt in the show anymore did i realize i really missed her
Me too. She was sweet.
She was my favorite. I liked her character, the side characters and just the whole storyline of Season 1. I love Love too, but Beck is the OG.. I was crushed when she didn’t make it out alive 😭
Kate was missing something. Everyone is saying charm. Yeah... but it's like her and Joe just got sexual tension. And with Kate's power will be helpful to Joe, I think she's just gonna be used as a plot device rather than be an actual person like Beck, Love, and all Joe's previous lovers. They were interesting. Kate still seem so mysterious idk
S1 is a perfect standalone series. That's what I tell everyone who asks about the show. The rest of the seasons just feel like fanfiction to me. "What would this wild character do under a completely new set of circumstances?" And that isn't necessarily bad. It's just different. I still watch, but just because it exists. Nothing like the praise I had for S1.
Because of personal reasons I really loved season 3. The ending was similar to what I have been through on so many levels. Really could relate so I was so excited for season 4 and then I was like wtf is happening here.
I think my favorite part of season 4 was Joe's bromance with Rhys.
If not sooner, season 3 should have definitely been the end. He meets his match, someone as obsessed as him, and it ends with either him stuck in that relationship (else die) the way he did to other women, or with them killing each other.
Been scouring the internet for a hour long deep dive on this show. Thank you 😭😭
Title: "The Downfall of You"
Me: "Wait...I had a downfall?"
Season 3 really nailed what 'You' is all about: creepy, complex, and a bit of dark humor. Season 4 kind of lost the plot early and went off the rails. Hoping the next season gets back to what made the show great in the first place.
They should have made Love the surprise villain for the next season or something. The actress was awesome, and they shouldn't have killed her. You can't compare her character with what came next. It wasn't the same-you can't get better than a girl who's just as crazy, or even crazier, than the protagonist.
Love that this was recommended to me! This deserves way more views and comments omfg.
Comment for the algorithm folks.
I do think Kate is shady and an upgraded version of Love (Season 2).
She is too cold. She doesn't even bother to care about Joe's past.
Plus she hung out with toxic people.
She must be hiding something. We will see in next season.
I have been waiting for this video. It's finally here 😭😍😭😍
to me the main reason why season 4 does not work is that none of the characters are likable or have any charisma, you just can't find a reason to root for them
the first season was the best season
but the scene with love and forty in the bathtub will forever be ingrained with me
that scene is probably the first that has made me cry while watching a show
because, the depiction of grief in that singular scene was just. real.
I feel like it kinda went from thriller to camp, but also, I did like the initial writing for Adam.
Forty was one of my favourite characters, and the actor NAILED him, Forty's awful, but he also had this weird... like, pathetic type of charm? Idk, he felt like both a hungry lion and an injured puppy at the same time, I really liked it. At first I thought Adam was an attempt at recreating Forty, now tho I don't think so neccisarily.
Also I so agree with Phoebe's character falling off the second she instantly stumbled back into his arms. I feel like your proposal for a re-write of her situation would've been nice, too.
I watched the first season as it aired on lifetime, and seeing its development history play out in real time was wild
Same.
It’s very shocking that the show has gone from so good to so bad it’s good.
I like first 2 season the most. 3 is ok, 4....well it really needs to end in season 5, Joe dies or in prison. If he gets happy ending I am getting angry.
To be honest when I watched season 1 when it come out...I never said anyone that I am watching, because the tv show is sick...really sick
3 is the best
I loved season 4... specifically part 2 (and then rewatching part 1 was even better). The storytelling, Penn Badgley acting, etc. was all great.
Victoria pedretti and love changed the landscape of the show. The producers probably saw the success the shows shift and thought they should try it again with pedretti. Without her now the show just isn’t the same
I agree,the Victoria Pedretti exit created a void in the show just can’t fill,I think she deserved one more season to ease her character out more tastefully
In my opinion, you’s decrease in popularity is totally due to
the ending of Love. Her presence & descent into madness feels like the highest climax of the show, especially with the push and pull fights with Joe - she was the best part of the show so far. It’s kinda confusing because the way the relationship is, one of them really has to go, but for some reason, it feels empty when Love is not around.
Agreed
EXACTLY
The walking dead repeats their concept EACH CHAPTER too and weirdly they got away with it for almost 5 seasons, until people finally realized.
But at least TWD had good/interesting characters most of the time. Especially since season 2 onward, all the side chars feel like NPCs from a video game - often designed to be so awful that you don't feel as bad for Joe anymore.
I actually really liked season 4, especially the 2 act structure. all throughout the shows realise penn Badgley and show creators said how despite everything the audience is always trying to be on joes side, they want him to stop and to win. in the fourth season they disrupted this structure, by letting the audience believe that he had changed and he was good, and then twisting it by revealing he was worse. it felt like it was giving the experience that people that know joe having, believing him good and being proved horribly wrong
agreed!
Exactly that!
someone has to
The show really feels like it should've ended with season 3. Love being joes foil was kind of the ultimate ending and i feel it shouldve ended in them killing each other or something. Love was his chickens coming home to roost, so to speak. Season 4 felt grafted on and like there were no real stakes because he hated the people he hung out with, so being "found out" by his circle doesnt carry the same weight it did in season 2
EXACTLY
Never heard of this show but your video on it was very interesting to watch, big thanks for your work!
They ruined it when they killed Love. They could have been the best serial killer couple, but Joe is an ass who just wants the thrill of the hunt. Honestly, it would have been better if they killed Joe off in place of Love, then we'll have a spinoff version of Love finding another person to "love". And frankly, i find her a lot more charismatic and pleasing to watch than Joe
1:27 titular character means the character the work is titled after, like Hamlet or Dracula. Don’t think I watched a show called ‘Joe’ lol
I thought it should have ended in season 3 with Love and Joe killing themselves. However, since they didn't I was mildly interested to see how Marianne would end up being the reluctant heroine who manages to grow from victim to Victor and season 4 would be the last. But now I have no interest at all in finding out how his story continues.
Season 4’a biggest mistake was not bringing back Love in some convoluted illogical soap opera way so i could have Victoria Pedretti on my screen again.
They must've not liked how she outshined Joe's actor every episode.
exactly
I really wanted to watch the full video but the song looping in the background was a little insanity-inducing!
As for season 4, it just felt pointless and like it was created simply to meet a quota. I hate when shows get dragged out :/
The biggest problem of the serie was putting him in more and more unbelievable settings and friendships.
1st season? He's ALONE, with only a little boy that likes him because he doesn't have anyone and Joe helps him out.
2nd season? Okay, yeah, Forty is a weirdo without real friends, of course he would try to befriend Joe. Delilah was also without friends and they lived in the same building.
3rd is where things go downhill...
How the hell did he manage to get into close social circle of suburbs??? He's WEIRD and awkward. Yes, he can be charming, but mostly only with 1 on 1 talks. If Marienne would stay his only friend it would be much more believable.
4th season is just a joke. Yes, the whole rich clique is super weird, but they're RICH. POSH. They don't have ANY reason to let him be so close to them, unless they would treat him purely as easily disposable toy (like servants on their trip), but he's treated mostly like they're on the same level just because one of the group likes him and they don't want to hurt her.
Kate frequently says how disturbingly creepy and weird he is, she doesn't have any reason to sleep with him even once other than "well, he's near, so I can use him this one time". The fact she's somehow in love with him is straight out of power fantasy harem anime.
joe is extremely charismatic, wdym he acts awkward and weird? He know how to manipulate everyone and acts pretty normal
I think you misinterpreted season 3 because LOVE got them in that close circle. Did you not watch that season or something? That was a pretty big plot line with love wanted to be accepted
leave s3 alone
hope this video gets the recognition it deserves! though maybe use a different music track in the future, got very repetitive lol. great analysis
This is one of the most unique video essay formats i've seen. Good job
You’re telling me it was never a Netflix original
the first season was produced by showtime, after it was scattered
acquired by netflix all the other seasons are netflix originals
When I started watching YOU I accidentally started from season 4 and I gotta tell you that it was so good that it became my favourite season out of all seasons.
season 4 is my favorite
Season 4 was insane to watch as an English person. I felt like they wanted to satirise posh public school people without knowing anything about that world. And they way they all kept mentioning him being American?? There are SO many Americans in London. It just ruined my suspension of disbelief
your intonation is so random, I love it
I think he's just french
I agree with your points, although the ending of s4 has me excited for s5.
The ending is what saved the season for me, but I can't get over how the following episodes felt like a drag.
There’s a season 5 on its way. The only reason season 4 is disliked is because of viewers attention rate. If you can’t sit through a more slow paced season then who’s really at fault
Thank you... I love slow burns and plots that take their time. Part 2 of Season 4 was the best this show has been.
I keep saying this to my friends, that we now live in an age of entertainment where nothing we love really ends. Instead we get to see the things we love fade into low quality nothingness and absurdity. Ending on a good season would require restraint in a situation where theres a huge opportunity for more money to be made. So what we get is a peak of quality at somepoint, and then an increasingly rapid decline in quality until almost no one likes it anymore. When to end a show is no longer an artistic choice but a monetary one, therefore, its lack of viability has to obvious to executives who, in all probability, never watched it.
A modern audience has to develop an ability to eliminate or ignore chunks of "cannon" in their own minds. I've basically hated every Marvel movie since Age of Ultron, with maybe an exception for Some of Civil War. So I've simply decided that, to me, subjectively, that's where it ended, and I no longer acknowledge any of the later content as part of my head cannon.
I viewed season 4 as a fan fiction of a nicer Patrick Bateman meeting the cult and realizing the woman he was interested in was more involved into methodical dungeon activities.
Kate was a major annoyance throughout the entire season. Hell even her dad was more interested than her.
It’s become too liberal and there’s literally no chemistry between Joe and Marianne. As a black woman myself, I felt like they just threw a black girl in as the object of Joe’s obsession but it doesn’t make sense at all. Season one he became obsessed with Beck and usually serial killers or stalkers stick to a pattern. I’m all for a black love interest, but they did not have any chemistry and it made zero sense. I think a better route would have been to make this a movie or possibly expanding on Joe and Love becoming a serial killer Bonnie and Clyde type duo. Anyway, that’s my 2 cents that no one asked for.
Soooo the show is liberal because the show cast one of Joe’s love interests as a black woman? You say serial killers usually have a pattern, that’s correct, but why does this pattern have to necessarily be race?
I'm super glad I clicked on this video! Great job!!
Something I would like add is that that’s how Joe sees the characters just as this “one dimensional characters” so he can justify himself as superior. I think how he treated his student at the end of the show shows he has fully become the superior being he thinks he is. He doesn’t have to be “the good guy” anymore but he can be the superior person he always knew he was without fear bc of Kate. I agreed with you w a lot of points you made but definitely understanding we were in his mind the whole time( him being in that crazy state) and how he saw things is what tells you he was just trying “to be good” so he can feel he is superior cuz thats what he understands makes you better but now he knows he is the superior being “the good guy” is just holding him back.
I personally liked Candace’s addition in the show, because we can see from a victim’s point of view the malevolence of Joes character. Especially when she would have flash backs and sudden breakdowns.
She did cheat on him tho.
@ that she did🤷🏾♀️😂
I just watched ‘Gossip girl’ for the first time this year, it kind of ruined ‘you’ for me, because all i see now is Dan Humphrey
I didn’t even know it had a third or fourth season. Didn’t hear it get advertised.
Think I’ll stick to the seasons I did watch.
It got advertised a lot, idk how you missed it
At least watch season 3. Don’t even bother watching season 4
watch s3 but not 4
i liked the first part of season 4 even tho it was a far cry from what the previous seasons were but the reveal that joe had DID and randomly became schizophrenic and was now seeing things put me off so much
I loved season one because everyone there was lawfully realistic, like I’ve met at least three Becks and that was really refreshing. Also we see Beck as if we’re also the spectator with Joe’s eyes while in the other seasons we’re seeing Joe as a character too and he’s no longer our eyes.
I rewatched the entire show. And my personal gatherings are that season 3 was the most exciting to watch. Even knowing the outcome and twists, it was still super engaging. Season 2 had the best side characters. Season 1 was a solid intro season but with season 2 and 3 in my memory it wasn’t as exciting to watch (so they really stepped up in season 2 and 3) but season 4 was kind of hard to get into again. When the season first came out the first time around I binged it quickly with excitement because we hadn’t had a season for over a year. But this time around it was lacklustre. It did get more exciting towards the end and I do enjoy Joe accepting how vile of a person he is. So I’m personally very excited for season 5 to see how disgusting he gets as a character and how his loose ends reappear to haunt him. I will admit I’m expecting him to go down for everything because that’s what the general consensus is hoping as a fanbase I believe but It would be interesting for him to get away with it all one last time potentially as a reformed man even and have things open ended at where he will go next.
I watched the first episode of season 4 with my friends then ended up falling asleep through the rest. I haven’t felt the desire to pick it back up since
Kate wasn’t an Intresting character, the less intimate kinda bored me😭 the killing started to get repetitive nd the recent szn just seemed too dim
The book was so good and creepy I read it over a weekend because I couldn't put it down. I thought they did a very good job translating it into the first season but idk why they kept it going. Sometimes you need to leave when you're on top, you know?
The depth of your reviews are so refreshing and your research is impressive I love seeing how far you go and how interested you seem to be in delving into varying topics. I am rooting for your channels success