@@spartanretro Both DF and the Sims have some greatly absurd patch notes. "Is it a Dwarf Fortress or the Sims patch note" would make for a great drinking game for each wrong guess. " The pile of discarded food that results when a [blank] throws their food on the ground after eating will no longer be called “Debug”, but instead will be called a “Pile of discarded food” when selected in [Blank] Mode." "Zombies start conversation with [Blank]s who tries to sleep in their house" "Fixed an issue that caused [Blank]s to leave their toddler inside a bar at closing time. "Fat [Blank]s eating causes lag" Answers and blanked outs below TS[Toddler][Build]/DF[necromancer adventurer]/TS[Sims]/DF[dwarves]
@@PregnantOrc have you seen "My Summer Car"' changelogs ? they are pretty funny too : "You might now get bumblebee into your eye when driving a moped without a helmet" "Urine now accumulates if player keeps urinating on the house floor" "Sleeping with cigarette can start a fire"
Tell me about it. I'm sick of my dwarves stopping jobs due to flashbacks because I told them to murder a human child/werezebra. Look, I couldn't have that kid coming near my fortress, I don't want to risk a werezebra outbreak.
Hi Krugg! I haven't watched too much of your content yet, but it's lovely to see a whole new generation of DF players arising from watching you. Whenever the game is brought up, I always hear 'I've never played it, but I watch Kruggsmash!'
I saw the first image they showed of DF and went "Wait. That looks a lot like kruggsmash's current world. Is it actually?" and then went it showed the bean shape part of the fortress I knew for sure.
The first time I played Dwarf Fortress, (after having gained some semblance of an idea of what to do in it) I remember making a farm by draining water from a small pool of water above my fortress. After a while, it rained and refilled the pond, however because of the drain into my farm, the water in the pond turned into a whirlpool. at some point, an animal had managed to slip into the whirlpool, hit its head on a rock, fall unconscious and eventually die... a nearby dwarf who was hunting decided it would collect the animals corpse, causing HIM to slip, hit his head on a rock, fall unconscious, and die. this caused a massive chain reaction of dwarf behavior leading to my fortress being haunted by ghosts and the eventual downfall of the fort entirely. it was incredible.
Love this story. Mine isnt as good, and it wasnt my first fort, but remember one for where i had finally kind of got a handle on things and making progress in building a working fort, and then all of a sudden people started throwing temper tantrums and everyone was going nuts. Turns out while i did have a functioning clothing industry, nobody was making socks (or maybe it was gloves im not sure, something like that), so basically a bunch of the older dwarves were going around in smelly ragged socks (or gloves) which causing bad moods that with enough smelly socks caused a spiral that made everyone start fighting and killing each other or tearing their clothes off in public and hurting themselves. I just never imagined that could be enough to completely derail everyone. Its always a weird journey to find out how you eventually lost.
@@howdoilogin wtf does your commentary about social issues and politics have to do with anything presented on the video or in the comments, find some help son.
Plays adventure mode: Gets a quest to slay a demon. Finds demon in a town. The demon is an inside-out toxic squirrel known as Flimsynuts. It is asleep. My adventurer is maxed out in whips, so they work through the night whipping the horror back to hell (it never wakes up at any point). Dawn breaks and I leave the demon’s house. The towns people suddenly surround me. I go to talk to one but they stab me. I run, bleeding through the forest as arrows and daggers fly around my as they relentlessly chase. I collapse and am mercilessly bludgeoned to death. I check to world history log, turns out Flumsynuts, the poison-breathing squirrel-in-a-Star-Trek-transporter-accident demon I was sent to kill, was that town’s beloved mayor who hundreds of years ago freed them from goblin oppression. --- Speaking of goblins. Another time I was sent to slay a legendary bronze colossus. I knew I couldn’t beat it. So I go to the nearby goblin village full of kidnapped slave children. I free said children who join my cause, and now have a huge mob. I send wave after wave of kids at the colossus hoping to exhaust it (turns out iirc bronze colossi cannot get exhausted). Luckily for me, the colossus decides to use a sock of one of the many crushed children littering the room. Every one of its attacks does 0 damage as it slaps me with a sock as I seize my opportunity to patiently smash it apart with a hammer.
I haven't played dwarf fortress, because it sounds too complicated, but I've watched Sseth's video on it and all the stories I hear are like straight up insane fiction.
@@janeblogs324 That actually horrifies me because I just realized with how easy it is to program stuff into dwarf fortress it is... you could get high off your ass and go "yo dude what if like we made an irigation system that the dwarves could use on their crops" and his frind goes "duuuude that's baller man let's do it RIGHT NOW." Then it's done. The stoner thought doesn't just go away it straight up is added to the game.
@@stagdragon3978 This is why coding is awesome. If you can think it up and you have a laptop you can make it happen. Any old dumb stuff you can think of, you can just make it, nobody can stop you.
I like how Tarns occasionally closed his eyes when he was talking. It was like he has to scan through his billion petabytes memory databases, then simulates an abstract concept into a concrete scenery, before boiling it down to words that mere mortal like us can grasps upon. As expected of the creators of Dwarf Fortress.
Thought it was more cause he was trying to avoid being cut off - if his eyes were closed, he couldn't see the interviewer signal that he wanted to change the subject or was bored. Not that that was the case, but I imagine he gets treated that way a lot.
I thought it was more likely that he just has some sort of minor social disorder. The stereotype of the 'awkward, weird nerd' is not always far from the truth. Plenty of incredibly brilliant people I know have some minor social quirks or are a little awkward around strangers. Socializing is a skill just as much as coding and game design
i like that tarn's answer to the incredulous "you modelled cats having eyelids into your videogame that is not really about cats _or_ eyelids?" was just to say "well, yeah… _everyone_ has eyelids"
And he then FURTHER clarifies that not ALL creatures have eyelids, only the creatures for whom having eyelids would be appropriate, in fact have eyelids.
So let me get this straight: You guys took him, out of the safety of his home, drove him across the country, just to interview him? Do you realize what could have happened to him? Who would finish the game if something happened to him? Completely irresponsible. I hope he is safe and sound in his bunker again.
Whenever you read about game design, the cardinal rule is always: "Start small"... The second rule: "Avoid feature creep". These guys were like.. "Naw".
Just a reminder that if the developers of The Elder Scrolls: Arena have avoided feature creep, the game would have ended up as a fairly simple gladiatorial combat game, without any semblance of RPG, as it was originally envisioned to be. The existence of Daggerfall and later TES titles is - in a way - wholly an outcome of the devs just giving into feature creep.
@@KubinWielki I think that example is more about the devs thinking that an rpg would be more interesting and changing the basic gameplay completely. Maybe their gladiator idea didn't work out well enough in practice either. I played arena a few months ago and it is not a complex game at all and all existing mechanics can be absolutely broken (hello spellmaker). It still has extremely simple combat and movement. But it is true that bethesda built on their core philosophy until after morrowind, when they began removing features again for a more streamlined experience.
@@xHeigoux Feature creep is an interesting thing to think about. A lot of games proved themselves interesting as a result of feature creep. With Arena, I believe it was started as "Well, what would be a neat side feature... going into a cave to find cool new weapons!" and they ultimately realized that it was more interesting and fun than the main game. I wonder if that really is feature creep, or if it simply represents a shift in design. It's hard to say.
It'd be a rough go to understand the programming that goes into this game. Tarn was doing post-doctoral mathematics after completing a PhD at Stanford. In short, the guy is a mathematical genius who wanted to be a game programmer, then spent twenty years developing one game. He and his brother are probably the only one's who truly would understand the existing code and all its implications. I would love for him to do a technical deep dive into the games development one of these days, but with the vision he has for this game, who knows if he would ever have the time. Truly a special individual and truly and incredible life's work.
I'm amazed they are still able to add things to the game, even if it is a modular system, its impressive it hasn't succumbed to a nightmare of spaghetti code that's impossible to update or add new content to.
@@cotton_flowers I like to believe mathematicians are great at avoiding just that. Great perception and ability to foresee issues in regards to increased complexity. I've only ever known one great mathematician and his perspective on just about everything was different.
@@cotton_flowersIf I had to guess (and this is what I would probably do if I were to ever attempt something of this scale) they might have developed a robust inter-modular communication network standard so that new modules could seamlessly interact with the existing ones without having to do any bootstrapping. Or at least that's where I would start, I imagine it'd be far more complex than that.
@@cotton_flowers In a lot of development projects it's not quite accurate to say that spaghetti code is "impossible to update or add new content to" but rather, it's very difficult, time and resource intensive and costs a lot of money. For most developers who want to stay profitable as a means to achieve their overall goal, fixing something that hard, like re-writing an engine from the ground up, just doesn't make fiscal sense. It pulls resources from the low-hanging fruit developments and can shorten the lifetime of the project. If money = x and x =< 0, then project = dead. Regardless of how passionate you feel about it. Dwarf fortress is unique in that, until recently, it was not a fiscally motivated project at all. Unless the brothers went bankrupt and/or died development would always continue and likely still will. That means, no matter how hard the problem is or how long it will take, the total project timeline (from their perspective) is infinite. So they can afford to spend years fixing/maintaining a vast and complex system while others simply have to cut their losses and admit defeat.
It’s sad man..cd projekt red really seemed like they also really cared I know it’s definitely a much larger company but I really thought they genuinely cared about quality over quantity
@@grimthereaper4254 well CDPR is split. Cyberpunk shows obvious signs of both passion and haste. The game is extremely deep and detailed in some areas, and completely messed up and unfinished in other areas. My guess is someone in the CDPR/investor leadership wanted to cash in on the hype, and went for it. Screwed over the passionate devs and players who wanted a genuine great game. It almost feels like a natural law at this point. When a company grows too large, it gets morally corrupted.
The DF community jokes that Tarn is going to add radiation one day so we can build nuclear reactors. As you can see, it's actually not too unreasonable a feature.
There was a bug with how experience was calculated. When blocking an attack a dwarf would gain experience based on what they where blocking. A dwarf falling off a cliff would try to block the ground and, if successfull, gain a ton of xp from BLOCKING THE PLANET. "You hit the ground!" "The ground hits back." "I block with my shield!" There was another bug where he introduced riding behaviour for mounts. Horseriding and such. It turns out to apply to baby's carried by their mothers. the mothers would randomly walk in circles because they where controlled by the baby's crawling pathfinding.
His intelligence is so obvious. And he's much more charismatic and articulate than I expected from someone who made this type of creation. Awesome interview.
Well people who have a passion for something at the very least can talk about what they are passionate about. I bet of you tried to talk to him about sports or something he would turn into a brick wall unless you let him relate it to the game he is making somehow. Lol
@@plastictouch6796 Yes people can usually talk about their special interest... but i've seen many who can't do it like this. They get distracted by unimportant details they can't articulate or think it's too complicated to explain or aren't good teachers and can't even explain it simply, or they ramble, or they get annoyed easily when others ask them questions about their creation, or they're defensive or arrogant for no reason, etc etc the list goes on.. I'm commenting that he's uncommonly articulate for someone who makes a game like this.
Feature bloat, the game. I really, really appreciate the enthusiasm this developer has, but the game would massively benefit from him being removed from the development, and it either rounded up to a finishing point, or developed by a new pair of eyes not afraid to chop things away.
@@WebertHest You're acting like Dwarf Fortress is a game. Technically it isn't, it's a simulation. Therefore, trying to make it into an actual game for the wider audience would just ruin it.
best damn content creator this game has ever had. possibly the highest production value lets play i've ever seen given that he draws and colors events and characters, voice acts and invents the narrative on the fly.
I think the most amazing thing is how in the intro story he casually mentions about a dozen things offhand that would be considered almost revolutionary if introduced to another RPG, and how absolutely everything interacts.
Games in the early-90s had may bonkers mechanics that still put many modern games to shame. For example, in Ultima 7 my favourite method of robbing vaults was to plant explosives in containers next to whoever held the key for the vault. This would kill them, so I would proceed to pilfer the key, unlock the vault, empty it. The chef's kiss is that I would then use magic to resurrect the person after putting the key back in their inventory. There was also the ability to move practically anything, such as wooden crates. These crates stacked beautifully. In Ultima Online, which was based on a beefed up version of Ultima 7, some players used this to their advantage by mass-producing crates in order to create a siege bridge that allowed them to enter an impenetrable fortress. Their human opponent never saw them coming until it was too late and they were already pouring over the walls. The graphics don't hold a candle to modern games, but the interactivity feels it was way more complex than today's games.
@@alsorew Check out Rimworld and Prison Architect. Same idea but simpler and graphically more appealing. There's also a 2D sidescrolling adventure game called Regions of Ruin which was inspired by a Dwarf Fortress world.
@@KrisAkaVenno they can get depressed, they move more slowly, hardly do anything, if you "hear their thoughts" (you can see their description and the cause of any mental instability) its all sad stuff. Just give them more alcohol and try to not get anyone killed or you'll end up with depressed or very angry dorfs.
@@nightinthewhite3817 actually, theres an entire mental health/care system built into the game; its just not automated like the medical stuff. Each dwarf has preferences, and those preferences can be acted on through their surroundings. Depending on their needs and preferences, you can do things like "fill their room with their favorite color or material", "give them an item of certain type", "assign them a job that matches their unmet needs" (like tavernkeeper to help socialize, or craftsshop if they want to make something), add a tiny temple to their favorite god in their rooms so its easier to pray. With more antisocial dwarves, you can set them up away from the main fortress and play with the storage/workshop links to let them focus on things they like most. Granted its touchy half the time, like most of the game.... but you can see their positive responses in their Thoughts, and help lift their mood. Putting Stressed dwarves on easier work details might work... I think.... That one is harder to keep track of.
My first time ever playing DF. I had no idea what I was doing, so I watched a couple of KrugSmash videos to get a brief understanding and browsed the wiki. I sort of got the the hang of it. So I figured I would give it a shot again. Loaded up the game, generated a new world and boom new fortress. So in the first 10 minutes sent one of my dwarfs to herd some of local creatures and another to chop down wood. Well about 45 minutes later I could not find either of the dwarfs, I went and looked and my woodcutting dwarf fell from the tree, broke his arm and bled out while my other dwarf was mauled by a grizzly bear. Honestly the whole thing was so unprecedented that it has stuck with me for years. I don't think I have ever had an experience like that in any game I have ever played. Thanks noclip for doing this documentary. Its great to get to know the people who makes games.
embark with stepladders, also you should've pressed z to see what animals were in the region and you could've seen where the grizzly bear was and zoomed to it to see if it was close to your herding dwarf, they you had the option to stop the designation and save the herding dwarf, I hope this helped
Years of playing games taught me that when you send a worker to chop some wood, the worker is gonna chop some wood. Like, what could possibly go wrong?
@@xen32 some get stuck in the trees while picking apples and get really thirsty. They also hate getting rained on, so they sit up there all grumpy and wait for help. Of course, they took the only axe in the entire town up with them, so we can't cut down the tree they're sitting on. So we forge one, just to save them, and when the apple tree is finally cut down, the idiot crashes into the ground and breaks both legs - from a 4 foot fall.
I think it’s cool honestly. Like Tarn himself says, these dwarves aren’t exactly “realistic” because they don’t behave like Normals would, but the game still rhymes with reality in really satisfying ways. Some of the emergent gameplay is obviously intentional. (Cause: your dwarf gets stabbed. Effect: the dwarf bleeds out.) But there’s something more nuanced about “we implemented memories so that the past has more permanence” leading to “some dwarves become miserable forever because their early life sucked and their new memories are dominated by times they felt depressed in the recent past, rinse, repeat.” There’s almost a philosophical statement about community and social welfare in there, and it’s not some hard-coded expression of the brothers’ politics, it’s just the deterministic outcome of a comically detailed simulation, and its parameters. (Afaik, the bothers aren’t especially partisan in their politics, as evidenced by LCS which essentially satirizes authoritarian behavior on Left and Right simultaneously.)
This is what stuck out to me as well. I have been lurking over this game for years and now with the steam release I'll finally make the jump and sink some hours into it!
Yeah, it really was amazing. This game is this guy's and his brother's magnum opus and when they stop working on it will be a sad time for many people, I'm sure. Those words are such an inspiration and show how he's truly devoted to his craft. His outlook is really something to strive towards.
If you're interested enough to buy it I recommend giving it at least a try; with the new graphics and mouse interface on the steam version it's a lot easier for new players to control and parse what's going on, and the tutorials are detailed enough to teach the basics and send you in the right direction, with plenty of in-game information to also explain how things operate. Especially if you're into tinkering with menus and just trying things to see how they work and learn what might happen, you might like it a lot! In many ways for me it evokes memories of the wonder and awe of getting on a PC for the first time as a kid and just poking around to see what it can do.
@@mwatkins0590 Dwarf Fortress isn't a game that one beats; it's a simulated world one experiences. Also, in Dwarf Fortress terms, losing is "Fun" because of the weird and unexpected ways it can happen. When a player says they expect to soon have some fun what they mean is their fortress will soon be at the brink of collapse.
I wanted to make a game that's a bit like Dig Dug but it kinda escalated into me spending over 17 years of my life creating the greatest world generator ever made. Whoops I guess.
The fact that Tarns had to go on side tangents for a whole minute before actually getting to the alcohol cat bug speaks to the game's sheer complexity.
I mean, I'm definitely glad he did go on those tangents, but he could as easily just had said "It was a bug due to cats licking their alcohol drenched paws being wrongly considered to be drinking entire pints"
@@carlosmspk Well yes but then that doesn't really explain why it was coded so that cats could get stuff on their paws or why they could lick it off. It sounds far more impressive with the context and fact that none of it was intentionally coded to cause drunk cats. The fact the drinks even ended up on the floor is because of bar service, the fact that they stick to paws is because of a tweak to make other fluids like lava more realistic, and the fact that they could drink it is because he wanted bodyparts to be able to clean other bodyparts so people don't have to manually wash their eyes. It just so happens that they all line up to lead to drunk cats by accident. And then because it was an interesting outcome, instead of not letting beer stick to cats or something, he just tweaked it so they only drank a more realistic amount of beer so they stop killing themselves with it.
Unrelated, but so cool that the TH-cam player now has callouts for different sections of the video! That feature is going to be AMAZING for NoClip docs, when I want to rewatch a specific portion. SO cool. Love the cold open :D
17:49 He made a small mistake here, he meant to say "Clowns down below". It's easy to see how you can get demons and clowns mixed up, but yep, there are clowns below, no demons here, move along people
I'd like to explain why this bar was full of dead cats... But first, let's talk about why we developed eyelid functionality for select creatures. Holy shit, I'd love to hear the process of how this guy goes through all of his bug reports. Most bat-shit game development I've ever heard I love it.
He doesn’t.., The inhuman AI does… he’s like the “President” of DF… The face…. Trust me… There are inhuman entities (spiritual,) pulling the strings. Seriously… think about it. How the hell do people completely ignore the existence of AI. it doesn’t take a rocket scientist, to understand the capabilities of AI… Can people not add 333 and 333? How?! HOW!!
For sure. I always pictured the creator of DF as a very damaged and mysteryous person more akin to that guy that created Temple OS. But nope, it's just a regular dude, incredible.
Well he did go to an ivy league college. You gotta be somewhat personable/somewhat rounded (not necessarily well if you're absolutely brilliant) or they won't want you killing the buzz on the campus.
Honestly, every other video I've seen of him in front of his computer made him seem very different. He seemed really charming in this video though, like someone you'd be able to just nerd the fuck out with in an endless conversation lol
@@chloewebb5526 huh... its almost like humans are complex and cannot be reduced to a single instance since they assume different roles in different situations.
3 minutes in, so maybe he'll mention this too, but there's a system that when someone kills enough enemies with a weapon, the weapon becomes legendary and gets a name. Also, anything, literally anything can be used as a weapon. For example there's a Let's play by Jefmajor where one of the first things he does is takes off his character's loincloth and wields it. And uses it as a weapon for most of the LP. So he gets a legendary named loincloth with about 50 or 60 kills to its name.
to be fair, if I heard there was a the bloody loincloth that beat more than 50 foes to death, it'd be pretty legendary. now, make a dwarf called wirt, cut off his leg and use it as a weapon, and you have wirt's leg.
As he expains the issue with the cats in the tavern, he reveals layers upon layers of gameplay elements that are far beyond what any other game has today. What really finally got my jaw fully on the floor was that the cats needed to ingest a certain amount of alcohol before dying. Amazing stuff.
the dwarf that keeps rethinking one bad memory cause he's got nothing to do, and so he's getting depressed - AIN'T THAT SOUND FAMILIAR, HUH? And then the entire fortress collapses cause all the other dwarves are feeling bad for him too the simulation that replicates by accident what happens in real world that's astonishing I'm with you, lil dwarves
@@anthonybracuti6898 I remember years ago when I was playing in Highschool (Since it was a game that actually ran on the computers, while the fortress was small at least) I would just engrave every wall and every floor tile. Just a dwarf who's sole job was the engrave the entire fortress. Reading the hilarious things he'd have to imagine up was great.
Biologist are rapidly trying to find a cure to our decaying chromosomes to counter aging in order to keep Tarn Adams alive so that he has the time to finish the game. However we have a limited time and need a breakthrough within the next 20-30 years please support your local biologist whenever you have the opportunity to.
I created a foundation to encourage biologists to work to make Tarn immortal for the good of the game. The biologists got together and created a religion based around Tarn. Did not work as expected. They all committed suicide in the hopes of trading years of their lives to him.
I was just excited I recognized some of the maps, lol - "ah yes, the tavern what was borded up and used as quarantine when a dwarf was bitten by a werebeast, and the great drowning chamber to devour goblins. Good times.
One of the best freakin games ever made. As game developer myself the idea of a world that is build in such a way that it holds together despite SOOO many weird details and scripts working under the hood is just breathtaking. Not to mention that it has one of the best, most friendly communities. What a legend!
Heyyo dude I'm a nerd and somewhat budding game dev or writer or whatever the right term is, just curious how game development's treated you if you're down for sharing.
@@lucchidor I can only speak for how it is in my country (Poland) so it's been... Great in terms of having a job I wanted to have since I was a kid but the downside is... Well... It does require a TON of sacrifices. Bare in mind that it's my 6th year of working in game dev and I've been working mostly as concept artist and in two studios as quest designer. If you want to work in studios there is a huge chance that you'll have to move a lot. For the past 4 years I've moved 3 times and it might not seem like a lot I'm in my 30s and I'd love to go back to my home city someday;P Long hours, crunch, annoying bosses - It's all here. Gamedev is filled with people's high ego and sometimes it's pain in the a** having to deal with them. However you do get to meet some of the most creative people. Also, as my personal approach to game design is to create something that people are going to enjoy rather than "selling my philosophy" or political views, I'd say it's pretty great when you release a game, see your name in the credits knowing that someone will have a great day and a smile on their faces once they play it:)\ So tl;dr: It's a TOUGH thing - game development. So you really need to be sure that's what you want to do. If you are sure? Well then it's gonna give a lot of joy and boost your creativity.
I guess the reason DF can have so many complicated interconnected systems is because they haven't been built with the limits of presentation in mind. E.g. they haven't had had to cut back in the complexity of a system in order to get it to fit what artists and animators can do. They can simulate cats soaking alcohol up with their paws and then imbibing it, because they don't need to author a paw cleaning animation for every single animal in the world. They can simulate liver disease in a cat, because they don't have to actually make a cat that looks giddy on it's feet and with visual hair loss, etc. Most modern games end up making highly restricted systems in order to cut back on that.
Bustling fortress of 25 dwarfs, we had entry hallway followed with a huge dinning hall and a bar for newcomers and adventurers, recently we started trading with Elfs, but wait.... most of my early trade items are made of wood (Trees are sacred so a big NO NO For Elf's) so the trader proceded to insult my dwarf before heading out to the bar and drink. (Cool I guess thats the end of it) At the bar the Elf must've been giving a speech about how we are "uncouth barbarians" killing trees they are sacred or something, when the previous trader dwarf entered the room after ending his shift for a drink, he immediatly got slaped (not punched...slapped) by the elf which started a bar fight as achohol, cats and chairs where throw around adventurers and others started dying, someone got hit by a coin, swallowed and choked on it.... as i tried to find a way to defuse this before it escalated further, one of my drawfs in that room had an odd book, that he found in some escavation a few days back, decided that now was time to use it...It was a nercomantic book....which raised the dead in the bar fight to undead creatures.... So fell the Great Hall Beirstein as undead creatures broke doors, walls and people fell into madness watching their loved ones die...
Amazing. Never seen this kind of depth in generative emergent narrative before. Imagine if AAA studios were half this clever and managed to get similar results from in-engine assets rather than ASCII characters...
Although somehow I think it could lose a lot of charm. Here's hoping DF evolves, or that other indie studios run with this level of interactivity. It's about time major publishing houses got some major competition in terms of gameplay depth, especially as high-end graphics become more and more accessible (and, indeed perhaps, less and less important). I'd like to see a DF-inspired RPG with more modern graphics, but the base of DF is part of what makes it so charming (and deceptively, incredibly deep).
@@0v_x0 I know, right? But DF has been like this for years. I first heard of it over a decade ago and most of the features to make this scenario happen were in place then.
This is no feature creep, Tarn is beyond feature creep at this stage... It is not anymore about how many things he includes in the simulation and more about how many you are not including in his life simulation.
Dwarf Fortress is pretty much entirely feature creep. The question is how much of the original design is even remaining. I suspect it really started life as text editor.
When Tarn started talking about the Steam version: make a deluxe version that costs twice the standard version with 0 differences in features and I’ll buy that. Make a Legendary edition that is the same game with a different launch icon and I’ll buy that as well.
Or... Hear me out, just send them a donation through paypal. That way you will get the most cash to them instead of Valve. You can also choose how much you can afford.
This guy basically is the reason Minecraft exists. Dwarf Fortress inspired a game called Infiminer which was a heavy influence on Notch when he was making Minecraft. So yeah, it’s because of this game that we can play Minecraft today. Tarn indirectly planted the seeds for its creation, and for that we should be grateful c:
This man is truly a gentle genius. He comes across as someone I would really like to know and maybe play a round of Pen&Paper where he runs the game. His creation is simply amazing.
Dwarf Fortress is one of those special games that blew my mind when I first played it. It is so conceptually novel in gameplay design that no amount of production value could do it justice. I still remember when I generated my first world, it was a surreal experience to see a whole world bursting into life on a blank canvas of ASCII graphics. When Rimworld first came out I was genuinely happy to see the genre take off, but at the same time sad and angry because nobody seems to remember or even know of Dwarf Fortress. I am truly glad that they have finally decided to put it on steam, which helps to distribute this amazing game to more players and more importantly, give them the financial reward they well deserve.
Plenty of imitators have recreated settlement management, none have recreated the in-depth fantasy world simulator aspect. The mythology update is really going to make the competition look shallow.
@@jasonfenton8250 It doesn't matter how deep a game is if playing it is tantamount to rolling your face across a bed of nails. I've tried to play DF on half a dozen occasions, but the archaic interface, incomprehensible controls, confusing setup process, and eye-bleeding 'graphics' make it agony to play. Some people are fine with that. That's fine, but you can't ever expect mass appeal so long as you need a PHD in hieroglyphics to play it.
@@Klokinator The goal of the Steam version is to fix all of that, and there's a good chance many of the UI improvements will find their way into Classic as well.
@@El_Frutero www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/magazine/the-brilliance-of-dwarf-fortress.html?_r=3&ref=technology&pagewanted=all I haven't read it since it was written but I remember they really played up the fact that Tarn is a hermit who doesn't interact with anyone outside of Zach
@@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii4222 its prolly the lighting man, he might have sensitive eyes. I do and I usually reflexively blink every time I see a bright light, and I usually have go squint really badly outside or even close my eyes completely when I'm facing the direction of the sun
@@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii4222 Intelligence is more about what's intuitive to you, opportunities, personal discipline... you generally have to hold at least some if not all of the traits that make a great person great to be intelligent... the ability to apply healthy introspection, being socially active and actually listening... Unless you just happen to be some kind of genius. But even then it's not the fault of knowledge... you make it sound like knowledge is the mechanism when it's the person. Like there is no control. Doesn't sound right to me. Sounds like an excuse.
@@zarteen Great statement. You are absolutely right. I happen to be one unlucky person. I grew up in a broken home and had to learn pretty much everything by myself. Learning new things became an obsession of mine. But let's get back to the point. Having a lot of knowledge can be pretty depressing if you have no opportunities to use it. Don't get me wrong, I had opportunities. But I also had abusive parents which used me as a credit card. It took years until I found out and by then I couldn't take legal actions against them anymore. I could probably write a book about all the abuse... Anyways, that's my point of view.
I would *REALLY* like a more programmer oriented description of the opening story. It gives me a headache just trying to imagine a feasible program structure where this could happen.
Tarn had a written interview with Stack Overflow that went into a bit more technical detail than this one. There's a link to it on the DF wiki's list of developer interviews.
Supposedly the structure is eldritch and wholly incomprehensible. Tarn likes to joke that he doesn't do proper version control, and that, if he ever were to sell DF to a big time studio, they'd have to spend years untangling the code before starting anything else. I like to think that it gives the game a certain kind of occult quality, where you never really know if a thing happening is intended by the code or just unintended contingency. Real Ghost in the Machine stuff.
All characters could have an array of soakable parts, then if the tile they're on is soaked in something -- iterate over the array looking for ground-touching parts and soak them. If there is a splash of something -- iterate over soakable parts of near-by characters. When, say, cats lick their paws -- ingest whatever the paws are soaked in.
One of the most important games of all time. One of the few games that made me cry. It was a final member of a fallen fortress, a baby, thinking about her anguish. Incredible story generator!
A few years ago, I got the chance to hang out with Tarn and a few other game devs at a pub in San Francisco. He's just as friendly and interesting in person as he comes across in this video. Lovely human being. Thanks for doing the interview! I've never been able to get very far in the game, but I love watching TH-camrs who know what they're doing and stumble upon interesting narratives while playing.
The cold open perfectly explains why Dwarf Fortress is one of the greatest achievements in gaming. "You made a system for cats to have fucking eyelids." "Yeah. Yeah. Oh, everybody's got eyelids." This is amazing only a couple of minutes in.
Tarn is way less of an android than I had anticipated. And man, after how well Tarn and Zach have treated the players (myself included) in the years of Dorf Fort, I am going to be happy to buy the Steam version.
I mean, I expect someone like him to have some STEM intelligence or other. What was a pleasant surprise to me was how much _social_ intelligence he displays. It's not terribly common to have both in one package :).
Loved Tarns quote at the end about putting mechanics in a videogame: "You can always find a way to put something you are interested into a video game just by... making it into a video game."
I could watch this go on for hours, honestly. From war stories born of features new and old, to crazy immergent gameplay situations, to community discussions and comments. I'm in awe. Gaming couldn't get more interesting than Dwarf Fortress. Please, consider making more vids about it, thanks.
5:42 Minor typo in closed captions - 'Dray Slay' should read 'Drag Slay' 7:00 'VGA Minor' should read 'VGA Miner' 10:25 'dorms' should read 'dwarves' 11:29 This is optional, but characters' surnames are singular, and the adjective attached is their title. So ideally the name should be 'Kenam Sporttorches, The Perfect Growth' 11:45 'wondering' should read 'wandering' 15:43 extra full stop after 'meeting' should be removed
I've always heard of the legendary Dwarf Fortress, so it's great to finally get to know it from its creator. As a side note, that 3D model punching and kicking around 6 minutes in made my day.
ah taverns... my last fort fell apart after one of my favorite dwarfs(his daughter fought off a tiger attack!) became king or something. while i was working on fulfilling his demands for various offices and bedrooms with decorative items never heard of in my squalid cave of a fort, my newly minted king drowned. horrified, i tried to find out what had happened. he was inside the fort, nowhere near the lake... but in the middle of the tavern. seems to me he either drank himself to death, possibly because of my shitty fort, or the bartender gave him too much to drink.... i think i caught the bartender later, "serving" mushroom brew to dwarfs that had already passed out. needless to say, play this game if you haven't. a final word of advice from Underlake: if your trade depot is in a drowning chamber, the price of anything is the flick of a switch.
"It isn't just about making a quick buck." "Yeah, we realized we were getting older and needed more money." 1000 shout outs for keeping the original alive and free, they're the best kind of developers.
Their motives are honest and pure. Besides if they get sick or can't afford to live how are they going to keep working on the game? I'm gonna buy the Steam version even if I never play it just because they've given me thousands of hours of entertainment without ever asking for a dime. It's the least I can do at this point.
There's nothing wrong with getting some money out of your life's work. Everyone has rent and food they need to survive, and even wanting "more" (maybe a car, a nice tv, etc) ain't bad either.
@@Funkopedia it's probably more about the exposure really, steam is the biggest game store in the planet by a long shot and one of the harder roadblocks that stop people from playing dwarve fortress is the graphics who are nearly incomprensible for a new comer, with the graphics upgrade and the steam release i could see a lot of people that otherwise wouldnt have tried it getting into the game and really enjoying it
If you say you modded the game for your own purposes, I expect the interviewer would be overcome with awe and unthinkingly just turn their rump to you for mounting.
Its nice to see that some developers still have a passion for making great games. For some reason, modern developers starting asking: "How can we monetize this game as much as possible while putting in minimal effort?" When most old school developers were asking: "How can I make my ideal game that I would play and that others would enjoy?"
Well, partly it's the burden of all the corporate / executive / useless tech-bro overhead, plus investor pressure to get ROI, so the creative types doing all of the actual work are forced to develop in bad directions and release before it's ready. Only way to get out of the cycle is to develop independently, or produce something so amazing that investors (hoping to bottle the lightning) demand the executives get fucked and let the creative people do their thing at all costs.
As much as I hate investor-driven development, I've got to say there were more bad games than good back in the day. In the 8-bit era, a lot of games couldn't even handle input properly but they still got sold. There were other faults too. The ones we remember were the good ones.
I would argue that game developers are just as passionate as ever, but the publishers force them to meet some insane demand. For instance, I highly doubt anyone who worked on GTA 5 wanted it to become the obvious money grab that it is today, but when it's all run by unchecked capitalism, the outcome is clear. Even developers who are THIS passionate, whose entire onus is centered on being entirely free, have to release a paid steam version, because unfortunately money runs our society; it is the fuel.
Like someone else said, I don't have the patience to learn to play it but man, I respect the hell out of it. It's such an enormous project. It's that game that everyone wishes for as a kid (or at least I did.) Where it's like a real-world that you just insert yourself or your will in to. It's amazing and deserves much more praise and success than it has already. I'm hoping that once the Steam release hits that it will cause it to gain even more popularity. Like, it goes live, a bunch of people buys it, that causes Steam to feature it on one of its "Hot New Games!" lists, which causes more people to buy it, and that perpetuates even more success. That's the game version of what happened to The Martian book. So, it's not unreasonable. I'm sure it will be successful, I just hope it's a fuckin' smash blockbuster hit. These people deserve that win. They should never have to feel financially frustrated again after creating something so wonderful.
I've been playing Rimworld for a long while, a game I'd say heavily inspired off Drawf Fortress, I've been loving it so far. You can bet I'll buy the Steam release to show my support to them. Can't wait to see how my first 150 fortresses crumble down to dust by day 20.
TO ANYONE LOOKING TO PLAY BUT HATE THE ASCII GRAPHICS There are tilesets that add graphics instead of characters BUT even better is the devs are making a perm verison on steam with some great graphics(the graphics are simple 2d stuff, but they look great!)
This kinda already happens, just not exactly for memories. Dwarves can have character changes after going through different experiences. For example my dwarves, who loved to fight, changed to "Would have peace at any cost after giving birth to a girl in 126." At the same time I also had a dwarf who was hard to rattle after retching on miasma.
@@sleep3417 As is only properly dwarven. On the more serious side, unhappiness mistly resulted from being rained on, and not being able to fulfill the extremely specific personal likes of the dwarf. It was clearly, if not necessearily a bug, poorly balanced.
I think that's a thing, I've had quite a few "he's been dwelling upon a memory of being unable to have a decent meal, which made him euphoric upon reconsidering his commitment to his craft" or something Like that general kind of structure of memory
"ASCII graphics are part of the reason dwarf fortress is so interesting" he says while showing a graphical tileset gameplay of Dwarf Fortress rather than ASCII
@@armpitpuncher given that code page 437 uses the same number of bits as 8 bit ascii, I can argue that once modified as a sprite set, the characters lose their meaning and thus cp437 is indistinguishable from other eascii sets.
I was of course already going to buy the game when it comes out on steam, but after hearing the reason I will feel even better about spending that money.
Imagine being an actual genius and being like "Do I want to study genetic disorders and cure diseases? Do I want to study physics and designs technologies that will help us make it to space. No, I'll just made a really weird game that a small number of people can enjoy." I'm sure the guy is smart but nothing about him seemed to demonstrate genius level intellect.
@@AleksandrStrizhevskiy Imagine thinking every genius level intellect needs to satisfy the demands of the majority in order to become worthy of their intelligence or benefit to the world. They can do whatever the hell they want, just because they aren't directly dedicating their life to directly save people's lives doesn't downplay their intelligence.
@@AleksandrStrizhevskiy One could say the same about Mozart, surely he shouldn't have made all those symphonies? He should have put his intellect towards medicine or science or something. You sound like you're not part of the DF community, which is fine, but you probably don't understand just how crazy and complicated this game is or how much deeper it will be in the future. I have faith in him because he's pulled off so many features before I would have considered "impossible" for other devs to implement. There's a reason the game has a place in the New York Museum of Modern Art. But hey, feel free to stop by the forums, download the game, read from the wiki and play for yourself. The community is honestly really chill, and we're always happy to see new people. While the "fortress" mode is the main draw, I personally recommend the adventure mode which has been updated a lot, you get to make a hero and explore the procedurally generated world and history in your computer. The next big update (still a long ways off) is Myth and Magic which will procedurally generate magic systems and unique mythology for your world. It will also be able to procedurally generate unique races in the same way the game can generate unique monsters right now. Hey if you still haven't been convinced, go read the Boatmurdered let's play. It's a classic and really shows what this game can be.
@@AleksandrStrizhevskiy If you were so ripe for judging, I don't think you'd place it upon the idea of arbitrary importance in human action when the end result of all things is vast nothingness. "if u dont work on space or science u r not genius DURRR" lmfao
I'm fascinated by dwarf fortress. I already knew that drunk cat bug, that Is the best videogame story ever. Thank you for granting us this awsome documentary
Very intelligent and well spoken person. Generally wholesome and seems like a total bro to hangout with. Could listen to him talk all day honestly. This is how you do an interview.
This was brilliantly made, and I am so happy for this man's undying resolve, the fact that he doesn't even see it as a part time thing or a passion, he simply sees it as a part of his life, if he can get passionate about anything - he can put it into his game, what a wonderful way to look at a craft, video games and especially his, are a blank sheet ready to be filled with life, I think with Dwarf Fortress he is etching the lines and leaves the coloring for us - Its freaking amazing, thank you so much for making the game and thanks Noclip for that brilliant interview and video!!
"Cats no longer drink a whole mug of Ale while licking their ale soaked paws"
Yep. Sound like a DF Patch.
I honestly thought it was a Sims 3 patch note
@@spartanretro Both DF and the Sims have some greatly absurd patch notes.
"Is it a Dwarf Fortress or the Sims patch note" would make for a great drinking game for each wrong guess.
"
The pile of discarded food that results when a [blank] throws their food on the ground after eating will no longer be called “Debug”, but instead will be called a “Pile of discarded food” when selected in [Blank] Mode."
"Zombies start conversation with [Blank]s who tries to sleep in their house"
"Fixed an issue that caused [Blank]s to leave their toddler inside a bar at closing time.
"Fat [Blank]s eating causes lag"
Answers and blanked outs below
TS[Toddler][Build]/DF[necromancer adventurer]/TS[Sims]/DF[dwarves]
@@PregnantOrcI love these examples. Bravo!
@@PregnantOrc have you seen "My Summer Car"' changelogs ? they are pretty funny too :
"You might now get bumblebee into your eye when driving a moped without a helmet"
"Urine now accumulates if player keeps urinating on the house floor"
"Sleeping with cigarette can start a fire"
"Babies no longer mount their mothers and rides them until the mother dies of dehydration" was a great recent one
"Vampires will stop attempting to pin the blame for their murders onto babies" I think was my favorite.
I remember one particular story where a vampire tried to blame his crimes on a duckling.
@@Tekdruid Was it an ugly duckling?
"Added the aperture tag for body parts to stop dwarfs gouging out each other's mouths" was a good one
lol, I had forgotten about these gems in the release notes!
I actually got the tantrum spiral out of that "bug".
"We added memories so now they get ptsd"
witness god creating
😂🤣😂🤣
Tell me about it. I'm sick of my dwarves stopping jobs due to flashbacks because I told them to murder a human child/werezebra. Look, I couldn't have that kid coming near my fortress, I don't want to risk a werezebra outbreak.
PTSD from getting caught in the rain one time, which apparently has the same impact on a dwarf’s personality as having their first child
Ethan Attridge bahahahahaha lolol omg Idky but this just killed me.
Hell yes. Very well done! Thanks again for letting me pitch in!
Wonderful work from your side as always Krugg!
Thanks for allowing them to use your art!
Hi Krugg! I haven't watched too much of your content yet, but it's lovely to see a whole new generation of DF players arising from watching you. Whenever the game is brought up, I always hear 'I've never played it, but I watch Kruggsmash!'
I saw the first image they showed of DF and went "Wait. That looks a lot like kruggsmash's current world. Is it actually?" and then went it showed the bean shape part of the fortress I knew for sure.
Happy to see you here Krugg, keep doing awesome work
The first time I played Dwarf Fortress, (after having gained some semblance of an idea of what to do in it) I remember making a farm by draining water from a small pool of water above my fortress. After a while, it rained and refilled the pond, however because of the drain into my farm, the water in the pond turned into a whirlpool. at some point, an animal had managed to slip into the whirlpool, hit its head on a rock, fall unconscious and eventually die... a nearby dwarf who was hunting decided it would collect the animals corpse, causing HIM to slip, hit his head on a rock, fall unconscious, and die. this caused a massive chain reaction of dwarf behavior leading to my fortress being haunted by ghosts and the eventual downfall of the fort entirely.
it was incredible.
That's so cursed hahaha
That's what I call FUN!
Love this story. Mine isnt as good, and it wasnt my first fort, but remember one for where i had finally kind of got a handle on things and making progress in building a working fort, and then all of a sudden people started throwing temper tantrums and everyone was going nuts. Turns out while i did have a functioning clothing industry, nobody was making socks (or maybe it was gloves im not sure, something like that), so basically a bunch of the older dwarves were going around in smelly ragged socks (or gloves) which causing bad moods that with enough smelly socks caused a spiral that made everyone start fighting and killing each other or tearing their clothes off in public and hurting themselves. I just never imagined that could be enough to completely derail everyone. Its always a weird journey to find out how you eventually lost.
@@howdoilogin wtf does your commentary about social issues and politics have to do with anything presented on the video or in the comments, find some help son.
@@howdoilogin what
Plays adventure mode:
Gets a quest to slay a demon.
Finds demon in a town.
The demon is an inside-out toxic squirrel known as Flimsynuts.
It is asleep.
My adventurer is maxed out in whips, so they work through the night whipping the horror back to hell (it never wakes up at any point).
Dawn breaks and I leave the demon’s house.
The towns people suddenly surround me.
I go to talk to one but they stab me.
I run, bleeding through the forest as arrows and daggers fly around my as they relentlessly chase.
I collapse and am mercilessly bludgeoned to death.
I check to world history log, turns out Flumsynuts, the poison-breathing squirrel-in-a-Star-Trek-transporter-accident demon I was sent to kill, was that town’s beloved mayor who hundreds of years ago freed them from goblin oppression.
---
Speaking of goblins. Another time I was sent to slay a legendary bronze colossus.
I knew I couldn’t beat it.
So I go to the nearby goblin village full of kidnapped slave children.
I free said children who join my cause, and now have a huge mob.
I send wave after wave of kids at the colossus hoping to exhaust it (turns out iirc bronze colossi cannot get exhausted).
Luckily for me, the colossus decides to use a sock of one of the many crushed children littering the room.
Every one of its attacks does 0 damage as it slaps me with a sock as I seize my opportunity to patiently smash it apart with a hammer.
Ok, I will now throw socks at colossuses, that'll do it
Sock of the Colossus
Maybe it was trying to spread foot fungus and underestimated your immune system
I haven't played dwarf fortress, because it sounds too complicated, but I've watched Sseth's video on it and all the stories I hear are like straight up insane fiction.
@@lycanthoss It's not that complicated really. I say give it a shot
I love how he closes his eyes to remember old stuff.
I mean, he programmed eyelids, he better use them
He's a true stoner
@@janeblogs324 That actually horrifies me because I just realized with how easy it is to program stuff into dwarf fortress it is... you could get high off your ass and go "yo dude what if like we made an irigation system that the dwarves could use on their crops" and his frind goes "duuuude that's baller man let's do it RIGHT NOW." Then it's done. The stoner thought doesn't just go away it straight up is added to the game.
@@stagdragon3978 This is why coding is awesome. If you can think it up and you have a laptop you can make it happen. Any old dumb stuff you can think of, you can just make it, nobody can stop you.
@@roberthesketh7472 I have a great case-and-point for this. I'm an idiot AND bad with tech, but even I can successfully mod Dwarf Fortress.
@@korbetthein3072 "case _in_ point"
I like how Tarns occasionally closed his eyes when he was talking. It was like he has to scan through his billion petabytes memory databases, then simulates an abstract concept into a concrete scenery, before boiling it down to words that mere mortal like us can grasps upon. As expected of the creators of Dwarf Fortress.
Noted that too. This description is perfect :D
Thought it was more cause he was trying to avoid being cut off - if his eyes were closed, he couldn't see the interviewer signal that he wanted to change the subject or was bored. Not that that was the case, but I imagine he gets treated that way a lot.
Tarn does not like being on camera. It was a way for him to kind of just 'talk' to a person and not focus on the camera.
At 3:25 you can see their lighting setup - I think his eyes are just irritated by the flood of light.
I thought it was more likely that he just has some sort of minor social disorder. The stereotype of the 'awkward, weird nerd' is not always far from the truth. Plenty of incredibly brilliant people I know have some minor social quirks or are a little awkward around strangers. Socializing is a skill just as much as coding and game design
i like that tarn's answer to the incredulous "you modelled cats having eyelids into your videogame that is not really about cats _or_ eyelids?" was just to say "well, yeah… _everyone_ has eyelids"
What embracing feature creep does to a mfker
And he then FURTHER clarifies that not ALL creatures have eyelids, only the creatures for whom having eyelids would be appropriate, in fact have eyelids.
So let me get this straight: You guys took him, out of the safety of his home, drove him across the country, just to interview him? Do you realize what could have happened to him? Who would finish the game if something happened to him? Completely irresponsible. I hope he is safe and sound in his bunker again.
We need to clone him already smh
This game will never be finished.
cave* not in bunker
fortress* not bunker
Perhaps a vampire-powered life machine could preserve him?
Whenever you read about game design, the cardinal rule is always: "Start small"... The second rule: "Avoid feature creep". These guys were like.. "Naw".
How can you avoid feature creep in a simulation?
Just a reminder that if the developers of The Elder Scrolls: Arena have avoided feature creep, the game would have ended up as a fairly simple gladiatorial combat game, without any semblance of RPG, as it was originally envisioned to be. The existence of Daggerfall and later TES titles is - in a way - wholly an outcome of the devs just giving into feature creep.
@@KubinWielki I think that example is more about the devs thinking that an rpg would be more interesting and changing the basic gameplay completely. Maybe their gladiator idea didn't work out well enough in practice either. I played arena a few months ago and it is not a complex game at all and all existing mechanics can be absolutely broken (hello spellmaker). It still has extremely simple combat and movement. But it is true that bethesda built on their core philosophy until after morrowind, when they began removing features again for a more streamlined experience.
@@xHeigoux Feature creep is an interesting thing to think about. A lot of games proved themselves interesting as a result of feature creep. With Arena, I believe it was started as "Well, what would be a neat side feature... going into a cave to find cool new weapons!" and they ultimately realized that it was more interesting and fun than the main game. I wonder if that really is feature creep, or if it simply represents a shift in design. It's hard to say.
Good ss13 was never that, it started as a simple atmospherics simulation tester and is now like a "Lite Multiplayer Dwarf Fortress in Space"
It'd be a rough go to understand the programming that goes into this game. Tarn was doing post-doctoral mathematics after completing a PhD at Stanford. In short, the guy is a mathematical genius who wanted to be a game programmer, then spent twenty years developing one game. He and his brother are probably the only one's who truly would understand the existing code and all its implications. I would love for him to do a technical deep dive into the games development one of these days, but with the vision he has for this game, who knows if he would ever have the time. Truly a special individual and truly and incredible life's work.
Someone should really figure out a way to run DF in Temple OS.
I'm amazed they are still able to add things to the game, even if it is a modular system, its impressive it hasn't succumbed to a nightmare of spaghetti code that's impossible to update or add new content to.
@@cotton_flowers I like to believe mathematicians are great at avoiding just that. Great perception and ability to foresee issues in regards to increased complexity. I've only ever known one great mathematician and his perspective on just about everything was different.
@@cotton_flowersIf I had to guess (and this is what I would probably do if I were to ever attempt something of this scale) they might have developed a robust inter-modular communication network standard so that new modules could seamlessly interact with the existing ones without having to do any bootstrapping. Or at least that's where I would start, I imagine it'd be far more complex than that.
@@cotton_flowers In a lot of development projects it's not quite accurate to say that spaghetti code is "impossible to update or add new content to" but rather, it's very difficult, time and resource intensive and costs a lot of money. For most developers who want to stay profitable as a means to achieve their overall goal, fixing something that hard, like re-writing an engine from the ground up, just doesn't make fiscal sense. It pulls resources from the low-hanging fruit developments and can shorten the lifetime of the project. If money = x and x =< 0, then project = dead. Regardless of how passionate you feel about it.
Dwarf fortress is unique in that, until recently, it was not a fiscally motivated project at all. Unless the brothers went bankrupt and/or died development would always continue and likely still will. That means, no matter how hard the problem is or how long it will take, the total project timeline (from their perspective) is infinite. So they can afford to spend years fixing/maintaining a vast and complex system while others simply have to cut their losses and admit defeat.
Lol the planned release date on their steam page just has the text field filled in "time is subjective" with no caps. New favorite game devs
@Angelo River aged well
@@Ash-fm6ym also aged well because DF steam edition is doing great last I heard
It’s sad man..cd projekt red really seemed like they also really cared I know it’s definitely a much larger company but I really thought they genuinely cared about quality over quantity
@@grimthereaper4254 well CDPR is split. Cyberpunk shows obvious signs of both passion and haste. The game is extremely deep and detailed in some areas, and completely messed up and unfinished in other areas. My guess is someone in the CDPR/investor leadership wanted to cash in on the hype, and went for it. Screwed over the passionate devs and players who wanted a genuine great game.
It almost feels like a natural law at this point. When a company grows too large, it gets morally corrupted.
According to the wiki, the release number is the approximate percentage of completion. It's at 0.47.x at the moment of writing. So 47% or so
I'm 3 minutes in, and this is the greatest thing ever.
The DF community jokes that Tarn is going to add radiation one day so we can build nuclear reactors. As you can see, it's actually not too unreasonable a feature.
I mean, falling water Dwarven Reactors are already a thing. Nuclear power would be a step down given that these are already perpetual motion machines.
Couldn't hit 'Like' fast enough after that cold open.
Dwarf Fortress stories like this are why I love reading about Dwarf Fortress
There was a bug with how experience was calculated. When blocking an attack a dwarf would gain experience based on what they where blocking. A dwarf falling off a cliff would try to block the ground and, if successfull, gain a ton of xp from BLOCKING THE PLANET. "You hit the ground!" "The ground hits back." "I block with my shield!"
There was another bug where he introduced riding behaviour for mounts. Horseriding and such. It turns out to apply to baby's carried by their mothers. the mothers would randomly walk in circles because they where controlled by the baby's crawling pathfinding.
His intelligence is so obvious. And he's much more charismatic and articulate than I expected from someone who made this type of creation. Awesome interview.
And you can tell that his love for the game is deep and genuine. He talks about Dwarf Fortress like he's talking about a dear friend or relative.
Well people who have a passion for something at the very least can talk about what they are passionate about. I bet of you tried to talk to him about sports or something he would turn into a brick wall unless you let him relate it to the game he is making somehow. Lol
@@plastictouch6796 frankly, sports fans have nothing to really talk about either
@@plastictouch6796 hey now why would you assume that?
@@plastictouch6796 Yes people can usually talk about their special interest... but i've seen many who can't do it like this. They get distracted by unimportant details they can't articulate or think it's too complicated to explain or aren't good teachers and can't even explain it simply, or they ramble, or they get annoyed easily when others ask them questions about their creation, or they're defensive or arrogant for no reason, etc etc the list goes on.. I'm commenting that he's uncommonly articulate for someone who makes a game like this.
“And so forth” is basically the Dwarf Fortress creative philosophy.
"And soo on and soo on..." - Slavoj Zizek
Feature bloat, the game. I really, really appreciate the enthusiasm this developer has, but the game would massively benefit from him being removed from the development, and it either rounded up to a finishing point, or developed by a new pair of eyes not afraid to chop things away.
@@WebertHest No.
@@WebertHest You're acting like Dwarf Fortress is a game. Technically it isn't, it's a simulation. Therefore, trying to make it into an actual game for the wider audience would just ruin it.
@@WebertHest no
NoClip just shouted out my boy Kruggsmash. Truly this is the best of worlds.
best damn content creator this game has ever had. possibly the highest production value lets play i've ever seen given that he draws and colors events and characters, voice acts and invents the narrative on the fly.
He's a great storyteller and Illustrator, its a great for getting into the game.
Yeah I thought I recognized the fortress
Yeah, instantly recognized the footage the moment it came up. I hope this will cause a migrant wave for his channel.
Just about to come to the comments to say this!
I think the most amazing thing is how in the intro story he casually mentions about a dozen things offhand that would be considered almost revolutionary if introduced to another RPG, and how absolutely everything interacts.
Games in the early-90s had may bonkers mechanics that still put many modern games to shame. For example, in Ultima 7 my favourite method of robbing vaults was to plant explosives in containers next to whoever held the key for the vault. This would kill them, so I would proceed to pilfer the key, unlock the vault, empty it. The chef's kiss is that I would then use magic to resurrect the person after putting the key back in their inventory.
There was also the ability to move practically anything, such as wooden crates. These crates stacked beautifully. In Ultima Online, which was based on a beefed up version of Ultima 7, some players used this to their advantage by mass-producing crates in order to create a siege bridge that allowed them to enter an impenetrable fortress. Their human opponent never saw them coming until it was too late and they were already pouring over the walls.
The graphics don't hold a candle to modern games, but the interactivity feels it was way more complex than today's games.
This is one of those games, like EVE or CKII, that I don't have the patience to play but I always love hearing about it.
Same. I would really like to see some sort of “Dwarf Fortress Lite”. Hey, can someone get the license to “Dungeon Keeper” from EA by any chance?
@@alsorew Have a look at Rimworld
Ck2 isn't complex it just has an awful UI
@@alsorew Check out Rimworld and Prison Architect. Same idea but simpler and graphically more appealing. There's also a 2D sidescrolling adventure game called Regions of Ruin which was inspired by a Dwarf Fortress world.
Exactly. I respect it and people that play it. But I can’t.
Unreal Engine: Millions of Polygons.
Source Engine: Booze Shaders.
Dwarf Fortress: Eyelids and feline alcohol poisoning.
And that just the tip of the iceberg
don't forget the mermaid farms.
Definitely helps Dwarf Fortress stand out
@@richardhicks5031 tips are finished, as is the middle section, but the bottoms and interiors are still buggy and need more work
@@awwkaw9996 More like concentration camp-farm
It's funny that he's literally made these dwarves so complex that they can actually develop ruminative depression.
Wait how what
@@KrisAkaVenno "arbitrary memories randomly haunting people for no reason", i.e, cringing at your past
@@KrisAkaVenno they can get depressed, they move more slowly, hardly do anything, if you "hear their thoughts" (you can see their description and the cause of any mental instability) its all sad stuff. Just give them more alcohol and try to not get anyone killed or you'll end up with depressed or very angry dorfs.
@@nightinthewhite3817 actually, theres an entire mental health/care system built into the game; its just not automated like the medical stuff. Each dwarf has preferences, and those preferences can be acted on through their surroundings. Depending on their needs and preferences, you can do things like "fill their room with their favorite color or material", "give them an item of certain type", "assign them a job that matches their unmet needs" (like tavernkeeper to help socialize, or craftsshop if they want to make something), add a tiny temple to their favorite god in their rooms so its easier to pray. With more antisocial dwarves, you can set them up away from the main fortress and play with the storage/workshop links to let them focus on things they like most.
Granted its touchy half the time, like most of the game.... but you can see their positive responses in their Thoughts, and help lift their mood. Putting Stressed dwarves on easier work details might work... I think.... That one is harder to keep track of.
I was thinking it was PTSD!
My first time ever playing DF. I had no idea what I was doing, so I watched a couple of KrugSmash videos to get a brief understanding and browsed the wiki. I sort of got the the hang of it. So I figured I would give it a shot again. Loaded up the game, generated a new world and boom new fortress. So in the first 10 minutes sent one of my dwarfs to herd some of local creatures and another to chop down wood. Well about 45 minutes later I could not find either of the dwarfs, I went and looked and my woodcutting dwarf fell from the tree, broke his arm and bled out while my other dwarf was mauled by a grizzly bear. Honestly the whole thing was so unprecedented that it has stuck with me for years. I don't think I have ever had an experience like that in any game I have ever played. Thanks noclip for doing this documentary. Its great to get to know the people who makes games.
underrated Comment right here ;)
Maybe u somehow embarked without stepladders?
embark with stepladders, also you should've pressed z to see what animals were in the region and you could've seen where the grizzly bear was and zoomed to it to see if it was close to your herding dwarf, they you had the option to stop the designation and save the herding dwarf, I hope this helped
Years of playing games taught me that when you send a worker to chop some wood, the worker is gonna chop some wood. Like, what could possibly go wrong?
@@xen32 some get stuck in the trees while picking apples and get really thirsty. They also hate getting rained on, so they sit up there all grumpy and wait for help. Of course, they took the only axe in the entire town up with them, so we can't cut down the tree they're sitting on. So we forge one, just to save them, and when the apple tree is finally cut down, the idiot crashes into the ground and breaks both legs - from a 4 foot fall.
I love how he just accidently implemented a PTSD mechanic
Ptsd. Whats not to love....
I can't wait for the nightmares to kick in. Golly.
I wouldn't say accidently, I think it was very much intentional. I think it was just accidently too common
I think it’s cool honestly. Like Tarn himself says, these dwarves aren’t exactly “realistic” because they don’t behave like Normals would, but the game still rhymes with reality in really satisfying ways. Some of the emergent gameplay is obviously intentional. (Cause: your dwarf gets stabbed. Effect: the dwarf bleeds out.) But there’s something more nuanced about “we implemented memories so that the past has more permanence” leading to “some dwarves become miserable forever because their early life sucked and their new memories are dominated by times they felt depressed in the recent past, rinse, repeat.” There’s almost a philosophical statement about community and social welfare in there, and it’s not some hard-coded expression of the brothers’ politics, it’s just the deterministic outcome of a comically detailed simulation, and its parameters. (Afaik, the bothers aren’t especially partisan in their politics, as evidenced by LCS which essentially satirizes authoritarian behavior on Left and Right simultaneously.)
PTSD as an emergent property.
"With the goal of simulating all of existence, Bay 12 estimates they’re only about 44% done."
Quote from the bottom of it's steam page description :)
And in 12 days all of steam can see just how true that is
@@felixjohnson3874 wdym
@@RicardoMontania it releases on steam in a few days
@@felixjohnson3874 Man I can't wait.
@@felixjohnson3874
Same here brother!
That last line:
"I would have to be bored of everything"
That was beautiful
you look like alex delany from bon appetit
@@anlcelik8141 Delany..............
This is what stuck out to me as well. I have been lurking over this game for years and now with the steam release I'll finally make the jump and sink some hours into it!
Saw this comment right as he said it,but yeah glad to see he's still having fun with the game while also taking his sweet time with it.
Yeah, it really was amazing. This game is this guy's and his brother's magnum opus and when they stop working on it will be a sad time for many people, I'm sure. Those words are such an inspiration and show how he's truly devoted to his craft. His outlook is really something to strive towards.
Why he's not in a robot body yet? His work is far from done.
We need to wait until they are well-tested. We can't risk him
We need more Patrons!
Natural AND Unnatural life
To hell with robots!
We have to make him into a Damned one!
Soon
I bought this game on Steam just on principle. I might never play it, I'm too stupid, but I want to support this piece of art.
If you're interested enough to buy it I recommend giving it at least a try; with the new graphics and mouse interface on the steam version it's a lot easier for new players to control and parse what's going on, and the tutorials are detailed enough to teach the basics and send you in the right direction, with plenty of in-game information to also explain how things operate. Especially if you're into tinkering with menus and just trying things to see how they work and learn what might happen, you might like it a lot! In many ways for me it evokes memories of the wonder and awe of getting on a PC for the first time as a kid and just poking around to see what it can do.
I do that with a lot of passion projects people make. Just to support
It's not nearly as hard as i thought it would be, honestly. I just got it too, and I've had a lot of fun.
@@liquidshit9279 so youve beaten the game, then?
@@mwatkins0590 Dwarf Fortress isn't a game that one beats; it's a simulated world one experiences.
Also, in Dwarf Fortress terms, losing is "Fun" because of the weird and unexpected ways it can happen. When a player says they expect to soon have some fun what they mean is their fortress will soon be at the brink of collapse.
Seems like such a sweet & passionate guy.
he dropped acid while writing his mathematics phd
Press Play Those aren’t mutually exclusive 😉
@@5hirtandtieler those go hand and hand if you ask me lol
Oh yeah, Tarn and Zach are super cool guys. I met them last year at PAX West while they were promoting the Steam release :)
We need the Necronomicon so that we could learn the secrets of extending his lifespan.
This is a documentary about Dwarf Fortress. All craftdwarfship is of the highest quality.
It menaces with spikes of andasite.
@@sheppycider123 Dwarves sure do love their decorative spikes. Its a wonder everyone's eyes haven't been poked out yet.
It is inscribed with images of cats. The cats are euphoric. This relates to the beer bathing incident of 14 Granite Year 256.
@@jasonslade6259 That's another reason for the eyelids.
Q: Do you ever get sick of DF?
A: No, I`d have to be bored of everything.
Not many games come to mind I could say that.
"I wanted to make a game kind of like Dig Dug."
Mission accomplished!
I wanted to make a game that's a bit like Dig Dug but it kinda escalated into me spending over 17 years of my life creating the greatest world generator ever made. Whoops I guess.
He sounds a LOT like Sips from his own Dig Dug series
@@essex3777 and looks like one a bit
@@essex3777 he sounds like coach McGuirk lol, i like listening to him
Not yet, I think)
The fact that Tarns had to go on side tangents for a whole minute before actually getting to the alcohol cat bug speaks to the game's sheer complexity.
The fact that Tarn's side tangents had side tangents in order to explain the alcohol cat bug speaks to the game's sheer complexity too.
Uriel?? I thought you died!
@@Maggot-Milk It's all a conspiracy, don't believe the lies
I mean, I'm definitely glad he did go on those tangents, but he could as easily just had said "It was a bug due to cats licking their alcohol drenched paws being wrongly considered to be drinking entire pints"
@@carlosmspk Well yes but then that doesn't really explain why it was coded so that cats could get stuff on their paws or why they could lick it off. It sounds far more impressive with the context and fact that none of it was intentionally coded to cause drunk cats. The fact the drinks even ended up on the floor is because of bar service, the fact that they stick to paws is because of a tweak to make other fluids like lava more realistic, and the fact that they could drink it is because he wanted bodyparts to be able to clean other bodyparts so people don't have to manually wash their eyes. It just so happens that they all line up to lead to drunk cats by accident. And then because it was an interesting outcome, instead of not letting beer stick to cats or something, he just tweaked it so they only drank a more realistic amount of beer so they stop killing themselves with it.
Tarns: We gave them characters arcs, but it resulted in arbitrary memories randomly haunting people for no reason
Me: Kinda like real life...
Watch this be the start of sentience in ai 😂
when the devs accidentally add ptsd
"haunting" in dwarf fortress can lead to the medieval equivalent of a mass shooting, so i think he was trying to make the results less crass
You now remember some very awkward thing you did or said in high school.
@@Oll1000I was about to say lol
Unrelated, but so cool that the TH-cam player now has callouts for different sections of the video! That feature is going to be AMAZING for NoClip docs, when I want to rewatch a specific portion. SO cool.
Love the cold open :D
Yea we're gonna go back and do the rest over the coming weeks.
@@NoclipDocs Super cool, appreciate y'all doing that. Class!
100% agree. TH-cam hasn't blessed us with an overall cool feature in a while but this seems to be it.
@@Zer0Spinn: I didn't even know TH-cam was capable of making useful features, really.
COpied idea from porn sites ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Woah really?? You guys got him? That's nuts! Looking forward to this!
Lol well..... Tarn kind of doesn't say no to interviews as a matter of fact.
@@aarqon yeah he seems to talk well and keeps it interesting! Tbh, I didn't expect that from a game dev🤣 guy seems really chill and modest
@@grantramsay1486 Before becoming a full-time game dev he was a math professor for a while, and he got good at lecturing in that context.
@@aarqon - He gave an interview at my school in like, 2011 - he's a super chill guy!
"Dwarves aren't as resilient as people."
Oof, that is going in the Book of Grudges for sure.
Snap Yep this ones going in my cringe scroll.
THAT'S GOING IN THE BOOK YOU WAZZOK
Dupes (from oxygen not included) are even less resilient :0
Dupes (from oxygen not included) are even less resilient :0
That's a grudgin, dawri.
17:49 He made a small mistake here, he meant to say "Clowns down below". It's easy to see how you can get demons and clowns mixed up, but yep, there are clowns below, no demons here, move along people
Demons sound like bad times, we only have fun stuff in Dwarf Fortress
Nothing but !!FUN!!
And you can unlock clowns and the circus by mining out the cotton candy.
@@undersomedesk7652 And Cotton Candy.
now I understand *IT*.
I'd like to explain why this bar was full of dead cats... But first, let's talk about why we developed eyelid functionality for select creatures.
Holy shit, I'd love to hear the process of how this guy goes through all of his bug reports. Most bat-shit game development I've ever heard I love it.
Might be root cause analysis
He doesn’t.., The inhuman AI does… he’s like the “President” of DF… The face…. Trust me… There are inhuman entities (spiritual,) pulling the strings. Seriously… think about it. How the hell do people completely ignore the existence of AI. it doesn’t take a rocket scientist, to understand the capabilities of AI… Can people not add 333 and 333? How?! HOW!!
@@heatherhancock2546 yeah, i think he might be an alien from another planet. he must be a part of the illuminati, or the men in black.
This guy is way more charismatic and camera friendly than I thought he'd be.
For sure. I always pictured the creator of DF as a very damaged and mysteryous person more akin to that guy that created Temple OS. But nope, it's just a regular dude, incredible.
Well he did go to an ivy league college. You gotta be somewhat personable/somewhat rounded (not necessarily well if you're absolutely brilliant) or they won't want you killing the buzz on the campus.
@@retorique might be a little on the spectrum but no I agree
Honestly, every other video I've seen of him in front of his computer made him seem very different. He seemed really charming in this video though, like someone you'd be able to just nerd the fuck out with in an endless conversation lol
@@chloewebb5526 huh... its almost like humans are complex and cannot be reduced to a single instance since they assume different roles in different situations.
3 minutes in, so maybe he'll mention this too, but there's a system that when someone kills enough enemies with a weapon, the weapon becomes legendary and gets a name.
Also, anything, literally anything can be used as a weapon. For example there's a Let's play by Jefmajor where one of the first things he does is takes off his character's loincloth and wields it. And uses it as a weapon for most of the LP. So he gets a legendary named loincloth with about 50 or 60 kills to its name.
to be fair, if I heard there was a the bloody loincloth that beat more than 50 foes to death, it'd be pretty legendary.
now, make a dwarf called wirt, cut off his leg and use it as a weapon, and you have wirt's leg.
Release date for Dwarf Fortress on Steam:
-time is subjective
Mad Lads.
well its in two days now
@@Goatfooted it’s released 🎉🎉🎉
It was the only custom date text for 2 years IIRC. Guess there are DF players in Valve.
As he expains the issue with the cats in the tavern, he reveals layers upon layers of gameplay elements that are far beyond what any other game has today. What really finally got my jaw fully on the floor was that the cats needed to ingest a certain amount of alcohol before dying. Amazing stuff.
the dwarf that keeps rethinking one bad memory cause he's got nothing to do, and so he's getting depressed - AIN'T THAT SOUND FAMILIAR, HUH?
And then the entire fortress collapses cause all the other dwarves are feeling bad for him too
the simulation that replicates by accident what happens in real world
that's astonishing
I'm with you, lil dwarves
it's ok! all we need to fix it is to masterfully engrave the dining room and give everyone a rock statue in their bedroom!
@@anthonybracuti6898 I remember years ago when I was playing in Highschool (Since it was a game that actually ran on the computers, while the fortress was small at least) I would just engrave every wall and every floor tile. Just a dwarf who's sole job was the engrave the entire fortress. Reading the hilarious things he'd have to imagine up was great.
lifes not so bad, buck up champ
@George xeno So in my case it would be a statue of myself made of wood or aluminium xD
@@anthonybracuti6898 that may not be so far away from truth: th-cam.com/video/MB5IX-np5fE/w-d-xo.htmlm35s
Biologist are rapidly trying to find a cure to our decaying chromosomes to counter aging in order to keep Tarn Adams alive so that he has the time to finish the game. However we have a limited time and need a breakthrough within the next 20-30 years please support your local biologist whenever you have the opportunity to.
I created a foundation to encourage biologists to work to make Tarn immortal for the good of the game. The biologists got together and created a religion based around Tarn. Did not work as expected. They all committed suicide in the hopes of trading years of their lives to him.
Waiting on a biologist to get a strange mood
"Dwarf Fortress looks like this:" *Shows map*
Me, an intellectual: Ah yes, the lands surrounding Scorchfountain.
I was just excited I recognized some of the maps, lol - "ah yes, the tavern what was borded up and used as quarantine when a dwarf was bitten by a werebeast, and the great drowning chamber to devour goblins. Good times.
Good to see the Beardless Baron getting the recognition he deserves
Kruggsmash is just great. I love watching his fortresses and adventures unfold
You can tell that making Dwarf Fortress IS his game. We're the ones creating the problems for them to solve as game designers lol. I love that.
Welcome to Boatmurdered! Hope you like Miasma!
One of the best freakin games ever made. As game developer myself the idea of a world that is build in such a way that it holds together despite SOOO many weird details and scripts working under the hood is just breathtaking. Not to mention that it has one of the best, most friendly communities.
What a legend!
Heyyo dude I'm a nerd and somewhat budding game dev or writer or whatever the right term is, just curious how game development's treated you if you're down for sharing.
@@lucchidor I can only speak for how it is in my country (Poland) so it's been... Great in terms of having a job I wanted to have since I was a kid but the downside is... Well... It does require a TON of sacrifices.
Bare in mind that it's my 6th year of working in game dev and I've been working mostly as concept artist and in two studios as quest designer.
If you want to work in studios there is a huge chance that you'll have to move a lot. For the past 4 years I've moved 3 times and it might not seem like a lot I'm in my 30s and I'd love to go back to my home city someday;P
Long hours, crunch, annoying bosses - It's all here. Gamedev is filled with people's high ego and sometimes it's pain in the a** having to deal with them.
However you do get to meet some of the most creative people. Also, as my personal approach to game design is to create something that people are going to enjoy rather than "selling my philosophy" or political views, I'd say it's pretty great when you release a game, see your name in the credits knowing that someone will have a great day and a smile on their faces once they play it:)\
So tl;dr: It's a TOUGH thing - game development. So you really need to be sure that's what you want to do. If you are sure? Well then it's gonna give a lot of joy and boost your creativity.
I guess the reason DF can have so many complicated interconnected systems is because they haven't been built with the limits of presentation in mind. E.g. they haven't had had to cut back in the complexity of a system in order to get it to fit what artists and animators can do. They can simulate cats soaking alcohol up with their paws and then imbibing it, because they don't need to author a paw cleaning animation for every single animal in the world. They can simulate liver disease in a cat, because they don't have to actually make a cat that looks giddy on it's feet and with visual hair loss, etc. Most modern games end up making highly restricted systems in order to cut back on that.
@@Schizm1 Thanks a bunch for the reply dude, its an insight I couldn't have gotten otherwise, and I still want to tackle this Goliath :)
Bustling fortress of 25 dwarfs, we had entry hallway followed with a huge dinning hall and a bar for newcomers and adventurers, recently we started trading with Elfs, but wait.... most of my early trade items are made of wood (Trees are sacred so a big NO NO For Elf's) so the trader proceded to insult my dwarf before heading out to the bar and drink. (Cool I guess thats the end of it)
At the bar the Elf must've been giving a speech about how we are "uncouth barbarians" killing trees they are sacred or something, when the previous trader dwarf entered the room after ending his shift for a drink, he immediatly got slaped (not punched...slapped) by the elf which started a bar fight as achohol, cats and chairs where throw around adventurers and others started dying, someone got hit by a coin, swallowed and choked on it.... as i tried to find a way to defuse this before it escalated further, one of my drawfs in that room had an odd book, that he found in some escavation a few days back, decided that now was time to use it...It was a nercomantic book....which raised the dead in the bar fight to undead creatures....
So fell the Great Hall Beirstein as undead creatures broke doors, walls and people fell into madness watching their loved ones die...
having tears in my eyes while reading this. from constant laughter and giggling! thanks for sharing that story :D
Losing is Fun!
Amazing. Never seen this kind of depth in generative emergent narrative before. Imagine if AAA studios were half this clever and managed to get similar results from in-engine assets rather than ASCII characters...
Although somehow I think it could lose a lot of charm. Here's hoping DF evolves, or that other indie studios run with this level of interactivity. It's about time major publishing houses got some major competition in terms of gameplay depth, especially as high-end graphics become more and more accessible (and, indeed perhaps, less and less important). I'd like to see a DF-inspired RPG with more modern graphics, but the base of DF is part of what makes it so charming (and deceptively, incredibly deep).
@@0v_x0 I know, right? But DF has been like this for years. I first heard of it over a decade ago and most of the features to make this scenario happen were in place then.
"What if that one modding community that sometimes pops up to add endless content to a game was the developer?"
Question: "How much feature creep does Dwarf Fortress have?"
Answer: "ALL OF IT"
It's less feature creep and more feature full on blind faith charge.
This is no feature creep, Tarn is beyond feature creep at this stage... It is not anymore about how many things he includes in the simulation and more about how many you are not including in his life simulation.
Feature creep is to the Adamses what Dakka is to Orks
@@k1ngdeth I assume bug fixes are the Choppa. Wwaaaaagh Fortress.
Dwarf Fortress is pretty much entirely feature creep. The question is how much of the original design is even remaining. I suspect it really started life as text editor.
When Tarn started talking about the Steam version: make a deluxe version that costs twice the standard version with 0 differences in features and I’ll buy that. Make a Legendary edition that is the same game with a different launch icon and I’ll buy that as well.
I've never donated (started playing as a kid and the habit stuck) but I'm buying the Steam version as soon as.
Or... Hear me out, just send them a donation through paypal. That way you will get the most cash to them instead of Valve. You can also choose how much you can afford.
@@LuizAlexPhoenix that's great advice. Thanks
Crayon drawing edition, too! Actually, I wonder just how big the backlog on the crayon drawings is right now...
This guy basically is the reason Minecraft exists. Dwarf Fortress inspired a game called Infiminer which was a heavy influence on Notch when he was making Minecraft.
So yeah, it’s because of this game that we can play Minecraft today. Tarn indirectly planted the seeds for its creation, and for that we should be grateful c:
also infiminer is Zachtronics, which is wild.
Rimworld as well, love that game.
But I just really cant get into DF, although I like hearing stories about it.
@@Gielinorian the entire concept of my masculinity hinges on not eating a bean. hear me roar, soyboys, the alpha male has come to fuck.
If only they actually updated minecraft rather than adding a new texture...
Notch was also inspired by DF by itself. Infiniminer only informed the look of the game, the rest (minecarts, Redstone, etc.) was inspired by DF.
I like the way how he frequently closes his eyes to reminisce something during the conversation
Funny, I absolutely hated it! So distracting lmao
@@youtubeaccount3829 it's cute
I interpreted it was because they are using strong lights and it makes him uncomfortable. It is surprisingly distracting.
Man i had a professor like this guy, really intelliengt and apasionte ofr his works
and he also did close eyes to remember things
This man is truly a gentle genius. He comes across as someone I would really like to know and maybe play a round of Pen&Paper where he runs the game. His creation is simply amazing.
Dwarf Fortress is one of those special games that blew my mind when I first played it. It is so conceptually novel in gameplay design that no amount of production value could do it justice. I still remember when I generated my first world, it was a surreal experience to see a whole world bursting into life on a blank canvas of ASCII graphics. When Rimworld first came out I was genuinely happy to see the genre take off, but at the same time sad and angry because nobody seems to remember or even know of Dwarf Fortress. I am truly glad that they have finally decided to put it on steam, which helps to distribute this amazing game to more players and more importantly, give them the financial reward they well deserve.
Plenty of imitators have recreated settlement management, none have recreated the in-depth fantasy world simulator aspect. The mythology update is really going to make the competition look shallow.
@@jasonfenton8250 It doesn't matter how deep a game is if playing it is tantamount to rolling your face across a bed of nails. I've tried to play DF on half a dozen occasions, but the archaic interface, incomprehensible controls, confusing setup process, and eye-bleeding 'graphics' make it agony to play. Some people are fine with that. That's fine, but you can't ever expect mass appeal so long as you need a PHD in hieroglyphics to play it.
@@Klokinator The goal of the Steam version is to fix all of that, and there's a good chance many of the UI improvements will find their way into Classic as well.
@@Toksyuryel Yeah, that's why I'm looking forward to it. The DF steam version may finally give me the chance to play it and enjoy myself!
Whatchu talkin about? Literally whenever a game like this comes out, it's always compared as the lesser to dwarf fortress
Holy crap I read an article about them ten years ago and, uh, he seems a lot more.....normal.....than the article implied
What did the article say?
@@El_Frutero www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/magazine/the-brilliance-of-dwarf-fortress.html?_r=3&ref=technology&pagewanted=all
I haven't read it since it was written but I remember they really played up the fact that Tarn is a hermit who doesn't interact with anyone outside of Zach
@@LordSluggo He's changed a lot, bear in mind that article is almost 9 years old.
@@julian1000 They really exaggerated the 'genius hermit' angle even back then
Huh... I wonder what changed. A lot can change in 9 years, but I wonder what specific things drove him to improve.
we're just living in god's dwarf fortress game
I wonder if other gods question why he made our reality so complicated
Yup… and humans are NOT God, so……… yeah… where does that leave us. Stupid as stupid comes.
ha ha, yes now keep playing
Legend has it, he has his interview notes printed on the inside of his eyelids.
But eyelids auto-clean! :(
Most really intelligent people are pretty fucked up.
Knowledge can be pretty harmful.
@@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii4222 its prolly the lighting man, he might have sensitive eyes. I do and I usually reflexively blink every time I see a bright light, and I usually have go squint really badly outside or even close my eyes completely when I'm facing the direction of the sun
@@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii4222 Intelligence is more about what's intuitive to you, opportunities, personal discipline... you generally have to hold at least some if not all of the traits that make a great person great to be intelligent... the ability to apply healthy introspection, being socially active and actually listening...
Unless you just happen to be some kind of genius. But even then it's not the fault of knowledge... you make it sound like knowledge is the mechanism when it's the person. Like there is no control. Doesn't sound right to me.
Sounds like an excuse.
@@zarteen Great statement. You are absolutely right. I happen to be one unlucky person. I grew up in a broken home and had to learn pretty much everything by myself. Learning new things became an obsession of mine. But let's get back to the point. Having a lot of knowledge can be pretty depressing if you have no opportunities to use it. Don't get me wrong, I had opportunities. But I also had abusive parents which used me as a credit card. It took years until I found out and by then I couldn't take legal actions against them anymore. I could probably write a book about all the abuse...
Anyways, that's my point of view.
He seems like such a nice person. this game always seemed interesting, I'll definitely buy it on steam when it comes out.
@@flamingtp4947 That term "red pill" was ruined a long time ago. Probably best to avoid it.
@@ziquaftynny9285 blue pill alert
@@Mbeluba ? can you elaborate
@@ziquaftynny9285 let's reclaim it :)
@@ziquaftynny9285 Blue Pill alert
I would *REALLY* like a more programmer oriented description of the opening story. It gives me a headache just trying to imagine a feasible program structure where this could happen.
Bruh you have the same pfp as another top comment
Tarn had a written interview with Stack Overflow that went into a bit more technical detail than this one. There's a link to it on the DF wiki's list of developer interviews.
it's written in a cosmic language you wouldn't be able to read or understand even if you tried so I wouldn't worry about it
Supposedly the structure is eldritch and wholly incomprehensible. Tarn likes to joke that he doesn't do proper version control, and that, if he ever were to sell DF to a big time studio, they'd have to spend years untangling the code before starting anything else.
I like to think that it gives the game a certain kind of occult quality, where you never really know if a thing happening is intended by the code or just unintended contingency. Real Ghost in the Machine stuff.
All characters could have an array of soakable parts, then if the tile they're on is soaked in something -- iterate over the array looking for ground-touching parts and soak them. If there is a splash of something -- iterate over soakable parts of near-by characters. When, say, cats lick their paws -- ingest whatever the paws are soaked in.
One of the most important games of all time. One of the few games that made me cry. It was a final member of a fallen fortress, a baby, thinking about her anguish. Incredible story generator!
I'm really happy you included Kruggsmash in this. Him and Ssethtzeentach are how I was introduced to Dwarf Fortress.
@Calvin Schuster Hey, hey people! Seth is my god.
I got introduced to it while reading obscure gaming webcomics about carp eating all your colonists.
Hey hey people, Im not sseth
@@chickenicecream1942 Hey Hey Sseth, People here
A few years ago, I got the chance to hang out with Tarn and a few other game devs at a pub in San Francisco. He's just as friendly and interesting in person as he comes across in this video. Lovely human being. Thanks for doing the interview! I've never been able to get very far in the game, but I love watching TH-camrs who know what they're doing and stumble upon interesting narratives while playing.
GDC?
The cold open perfectly explains why Dwarf Fortress is one of the greatest achievements in gaming.
"You made a system for cats to have fucking eyelids."
"Yeah. Yeah. Oh, everybody's got eyelids."
This is amazing only a couple of minutes in.
And then he clarifies, not things that don't have eyelids. Like, snakes don't have eyelids.
@@Cruxador it's fantastic how nothing is simple, he has to clarify everything
Thank you to Kruggsmash for allowing us to use his footage. Subscribe to his wonderful channel here: th-cam.com/users/kruggsmash
I love Kruggsmash. Never played DF myself but I love his roleplaying
I'm currently addicted to the Honeystoker series, it's amazing.
This seemed familiar, now it clicks. Thanks for mentioning Kruggsmash.
"You made a system for cats to have eyelids"
"Yeah, everybody's got eyelids" says basically everything about how tarn makes this game
Tarn is way less of an android than I had anticipated.
And man, after how well Tarn and Zach have treated the players (myself included) in the years of Dorf Fort, I am going to be happy to buy the Steam version.
He's obviously a very intelligent man. Well-spoken and easy-going.
Great interview!
Dr. Adams ofcourse
Well he did go to MIT I believe
He holds a PhD in Mathematics from Stanford.
I mean, I expect someone like him to have some STEM intelligence or other. What was a pleasant surprise to me was how much _social_ intelligence he displays. It's not terribly common to have both in one package :).
@@wile9763 oops, sorry, thanks for the correction.
Loved Tarns quote at the end about putting mechanics in a videogame: "You can always find a way to put something you are interested into a video game just by... making it into a video game."
I could watch this go on for hours, honestly.
From war stories born of features new and old, to crazy immergent gameplay situations, to community discussions and comments.
I'm in awe. Gaming couldn't get more interesting than Dwarf Fortress. Please, consider making more vids about it, thanks.
5:42 Minor typo in closed captions - 'Dray Slay' should read 'Drag Slay'
7:00 'VGA Minor' should read 'VGA Miner'
10:25 'dorms' should read 'dwarves'
11:29 This is optional, but characters' surnames are singular, and the adjective attached is their title. So ideally the name should be 'Kenam Sporttorches, The Perfect Growth'
11:45 'wondering' should read 'wandering'
15:43 extra full stop after 'meeting' should be removed
Oh you're talking about subtitles. You should write it top of this
What do you mean? this is a top-level comment
@Calvin Schuster boo
Holgast They meant you should edit your post and mention at the top [of the text] that youre referring to subtitles
2040:
"The goblin passed the Turing test?"
"Well yeah, everyone's got a brain"
I can only bow to him. Such a talented, hard-working and humble guy.
I've always heard of the legendary Dwarf Fortress, so it's great to finally get to know it from its creator.
As a side note, that 3D model punching and kicking around 6 minutes in made my day.
Cats actually have multiple sets of eyelids, you're gonna need to make a patch.
"I'd have to be bored of everything"
What a fantastic mindset. Great ending note.
ah taverns... my last fort fell apart after one of my favorite dwarfs(his daughter fought off a tiger attack!) became king or something. while i was working on fulfilling his demands for various offices and bedrooms with decorative items never heard of in my squalid cave of a fort, my newly minted king drowned. horrified, i tried to find out what had happened. he was inside the fort, nowhere near the lake... but in the middle of the tavern.
seems to me he either drank himself to death, possibly because of my shitty fort, or the bartender gave him too much to drink.... i think i caught the bartender later, "serving" mushroom brew to dwarfs that had already passed out.
needless to say, play this game if you haven't.
a final word of advice from Underlake: if your trade depot is in a drowning chamber, the price of anything is the flick of a switch.
Just as long as you don't do it to dwarves right?
Right?
Non ya Elves are the intended target of surprise 100% discounts.
Pull the damn lever!
Drowning chambers? Pft. **pours magma on worthless elf junk and the elves that brought it**
I’m stoked! Coming to steam with actual graphics? Amazing emergent gameplay 17 years of updates by an enthusiastic, knowledgeable dev? Take my money!!
Did you get it?
@@TylerF not yet. I need some money first before the devs can take it! 😂 but I’m really excited it’s finally out.
This guy is such a craftsman its unbelievable
All craftsmanship is of the highest quality.
This object menaces with spikes of horse leather.
He has to close his eyes as he speaks because his brilliance and geniality would overflow and kill Danny instantly with a Powerful Beam
Ultra Instinct Toady once opened his eyes while simultaneously talking. The combined power created Z-levels.
@@Quiltfish This comment is criminally underrated!
"It isn't just about making a quick buck."
"Yeah, we realized we were getting older and needed more money."
1000 shout outs for keeping the original alive and free, they're the best kind of developers.
Their motives are honest and pure. Besides if they get sick or can't afford to live how are they going to keep working on the game? I'm gonna buy the Steam version even if I never play it just because they've given me thousands of hours of entertainment without ever asking for a dime. It's the least I can do at this point.
There's nothing wrong with getting some money out of your life's work. Everyone has rent and food they need to survive, and even wanting "more" (maybe a car, a nice tv, etc) ain't bad either.
When it comes right down to it, I suspect that they'll still make more from the donations than the sales.
I'm totally fine with this, they have been working for 17 years.
@@Funkopedia it's probably more about the exposure really, steam is the biggest game store in the planet by a long shot and one of the harder roadblocks that stop people from playing dwarve fortress is the graphics who are nearly incomprensible for a new comer, with the graphics upgrade and the steam release i could see a lot of people that otherwise wouldnt have tried it getting into the game and really enjoying it
So, should I put "once played Dwarf Fortress" on my resumes from now on?
If you say you modded the game for your own purposes, I expect the interviewer would be overcome with awe and unthinkingly just turn their rump to you for mounting.
Is it a QA job opening?
Dev: "Everyone was euphoric, so i fixed that..."
Dwarf: "I have a question, for god... *WHHHYYYYYYYYY????!!!! T_T"*
Because if you only ever drink once, are you really a dwarf?
Its nice to see that some developers still have a passion for making great games. For some reason, modern developers starting asking:
"How can we monetize this game as much as possible while putting in minimal effort?"
When most old school developers were asking:
"How can I make my ideal game that I would play and that others would enjoy?"
it is not a lack of passion, is neoliberalism slipping through every aspect of our lives
Well, partly it's the burden of all the corporate / executive / useless tech-bro overhead, plus investor pressure to get ROI, so the creative types doing all of the actual work are forced to develop in bad directions and release before it's ready. Only way to get out of the cycle is to develop independently, or produce something so amazing that investors (hoping to bottle the lightning) demand the executives get fucked and let the creative people do their thing at all costs.
As much as I hate investor-driven development, I've got to say there were more bad games than good back in the day. In the 8-bit era, a lot of games couldn't even handle input properly but they still got sold. There were other faults too. The ones we remember were the good ones.
I would argue that game developers are just as passionate as ever, but the publishers force them to meet some insane demand. For instance, I highly doubt anyone who worked on GTA 5 wanted it to become the obvious money grab that it is today, but when it's all run by unchecked capitalism, the outcome is clear. Even developers who are THIS passionate, whose entire onus is centered on being entirely free, have to release a paid steam version, because unfortunately money runs our society; it is the fuel.
That is so unfair to developers for no reason lmao. Take your cartoon perspective elsewhere.
What a wholesome interview. Sure hope the guy and his brother are doing okay, DF is an immense project and cool as hell yo
Bruh you have the same pfp as another top comment
The holy grail of gaming.
I agree
Like someone else said, I don't have the patience to learn to play it but man, I respect the hell out of it. It's such an enormous project. It's that game that everyone wishes for as a kid (or at least I did.) Where it's like a real-world that you just insert yourself or your will in to. It's amazing and deserves much more praise and success than it has already. I'm hoping that once the Steam release hits that it will cause it to gain even more popularity. Like, it goes live, a bunch of people buys it, that causes Steam to feature it on one of its "Hot New Games!" lists, which causes more people to buy it, and that perpetuates even more success. That's the game version of what happened to The Martian book. So, it's not unreasonable. I'm sure it will be successful, I just hope it's a fuckin' smash blockbuster hit. These people deserve that win. They should never have to feel financially frustrated again after creating something so wonderful.
As someone who develops games as a hobby, I deeply admire this man. Dwarf Fortress shows how deep games can be. It's an astonishing achievement.
Kruggsmash whooo!
A follow-up interview would be awesome to see
I've been playing Rimworld for a long while, a game I'd say heavily inspired off Drawf Fortress, I've been loving it so far.
You can bet I'll buy the Steam release to show my support to them.
Can't wait to see how my first 150 fortresses crumble down to dust by day 20.
You are ambitious, looking towards day 20 on your first fortresses!
@@leakingamps2050 True, I bet they'll collapse before day 2.
"Dwarf Fortress looks like this." *Uses graphics pack*
I mean, even with the pack, its almost completely incomprehensable to most!
Tilesets are for weaklings.
@@JRMoore hey dude, it’s okay...
You’re not a weakling
Fogin' casuals, am'aright?
@@Teadon86 Durn right. Kids these days with their vampires and minecarts and tilesets. Why back in my day...
*several minutes of incoherent rambling*
TO ANYONE LOOKING TO PLAY BUT HATE THE ASCII GRAPHICS
There are tilesets that add graphics instead of characters BUT
even better is the devs are making a perm verison on steam with some great graphics(the graphics are simple 2d stuff, but they look great!)
I don't think you watched the video
Will the complexity stay the same even with the new graphics?
@@zubinzuro Yes
@@xGOKOPx I've watch, but I some people may click off, before they reach the steam section.
I feel like short term bad memories should have a chance to pass into long term good memories depending on the mental fortitude of the character.
Yep that embarrassing teenage memory can be a great conversation starter in adulthood.
This kinda already happens, just not exactly for memories. Dwarves can have character changes after going through different experiences. For example my dwarves, who loved to fight, changed to "Would have peace at any cost after giving birth to a girl in 126."
At the same time I also had a dwarf who was hard to rattle after retching on miasma.
Exactly. Losing your son to a crocodile should be celebrated with a drinking party.
@@sleep3417 As is only properly dwarven.
On the more serious side, unhappiness mistly resulted from being rained on, and not being able to fulfill the extremely specific personal likes of the dwarf. It was clearly, if not necessearily a bug, poorly balanced.
I think that's a thing, I've had quite a few "he's been dwelling upon a memory of being unable to have a decent meal, which made him euphoric upon reconsidering his commitment to his craft" or something
Like that general kind of structure of memory
"ASCII graphics are part of the reason dwarf fortress is so interesting" he says while showing a graphical tileset gameplay of Dwarf Fortress rather than ASCII
technically it's ascii with a weird font.
@@-bamks i still dont understand what is going on even with those tile sets
@@-bamks It's his tileset because it's exclusively footage from his videos. Done with permission (as was mentioned).
@@satibel If we're getting technical, no, even the normal game, without a graphical tileset, is not ASCII. It's code page 437.
@@armpitpuncher given that code page 437 uses the same number of bits as 8 bit ascii, I can argue that once modified as a sprite set, the characters lose their meaning and thus cp437 is indistinguishable from other eascii sets.
I was of course already going to buy the game when it comes out on steam, but after hearing the reason I will feel even better about spending that money.
This is what actual every-day-genius looks like btw, if anyone was curious
Imagine being an actual genius and being like "Do I want to study genetic disorders and cure diseases? Do I want to study physics and designs technologies that will help us make it to space. No, I'll just made a really weird game that a small number of people can enjoy." I'm sure the guy is smart but nothing about him seemed to demonstrate genius level intellect.
Aleksandr Strizhevskiy You could always see it as a lengthy project for “trying to simulate consciousness”
@@AleksandrStrizhevskiy Imagine thinking every genius level intellect needs to satisfy the demands of the majority in order to become worthy of their intelligence or benefit to the world. They can do whatever the hell they want, just because they aren't directly dedicating their life to directly save people's lives doesn't downplay their intelligence.
@@AleksandrStrizhevskiy One could say the same about Mozart, surely he shouldn't have made all those symphonies? He should have put his intellect towards medicine or science or something.
You sound like you're not part of the DF community, which is fine, but you probably don't understand just how crazy and complicated this game is or how much deeper it will be in the future. I have faith in him because he's pulled off so many features before I would have considered "impossible" for other devs to implement. There's a reason the game has a place in the New York Museum of Modern Art.
But hey, feel free to stop by the forums, download the game, read from the wiki and play for yourself. The community is honestly really chill, and we're always happy to see new people. While the "fortress" mode is the main draw, I personally recommend the adventure mode which has been updated a lot, you get to make a hero and explore the procedurally generated world and history in your computer. The next big update (still a long ways off) is Myth and Magic which will procedurally generate magic systems and unique mythology for your world. It will also be able to procedurally generate unique races in the same way the game can generate unique monsters right now. Hey if you still haven't been convinced, go read the Boatmurdered let's play. It's a classic and really shows what this game can be.
@@AleksandrStrizhevskiy If you were so ripe for judging, I don't think you'd place it upon the idea of arbitrary importance in human action when the end result of all things is vast nothingness. "if u dont work on space or science u r not genius DURRR" lmfao
I'm fascinated by dwarf fortress. I already knew that drunk cat bug, that Is the best videogame story ever. Thank you for granting us this awsome documentary
I'm incapable of guessing his age. He looks 50 and 25 at the same time.
He is talking about entering in his 40 so he is in 40 or about to. But yeah, he is hard to guess...
Giving honest effort does that to people.
He is 42
Very intelligent and well spoken person. Generally wholesome and seems like a total bro to hangout with. Could listen to him talk all day honestly. This is how you do an interview.
I hope this isn't all we see from that interview and that game.
This was brilliantly made, and I am so happy for this man's undying resolve, the fact that he doesn't even see it as a part time thing or a passion, he simply sees it as a part of his life, if he can get passionate about anything - he can put it into his game, what a wonderful way to look at a craft, video games and especially his, are a blank sheet ready to be filled with life, I think with Dwarf Fortress he is etching the lines and leaves the coloring for us - Its freaking amazing, thank you so much for making the game and thanks Noclip for that brilliant interview and video!!
That really means a lot coming from Jesus.