🚨 Train with me Online! I’m excited to launch The ADV ACADEMY! My entire Adventure Bike training curriculum is now available online. If you have gotten value out of my TH-cam videos, you are going to love the online course. Check it out: www.theadvacademy.com
When I started riding dirt recently, I took a lesson at the local “counter balance” school and learned a LOT about how the bike and body can react to each other, it was a valuable lesson. Then, next lesson was at the Sedlak school with Edgar teaching… what a game changer! The bike immediately “flowed” and from then on when I ride it feels more like snowboarding or surfing than it does “bike riding”. I can’t recommend them and this style of riding enough!
@5:25 Your upper body is basically stationary to the triple clamps and all body flex and movement occurs around the middle section as it should. Other so called experts are telling beginner ADV riders to pivot and move their upper body and as you explained, that leads to you always chasing the balance of the bike. Your body position keeps more weight on the front tire and it shows by how well the front is tracking straight while the rear tire is sliding around looking for traction. This is by far the best video explaining the proper technique and the footage after the 5 minute mark shows it being performed flawlessly. Great job!
I took both the free RPM Member's class and the paid full-day class on my 1200GS at GetOn! ADV Fest this year. Everything Daniel is talking about works really well and plants you solidly, creating the foundation. Took the old XR650 to Moab last week and it was like the big red pig had been transformed, as though I had applied a cheat code, because I had learned Sedlak's off-road techniques on the big bike. The XR and I were much less nervous and worked together to rip some good lines. Thanks SOS!
I can’t believe I finally figured out how to initiate a turn while standing up. I’ve been riding for 2 years mostly road and started gravel last year but never felt comfortable turning standing up. I tried your technique yesterday and it blew my mind. Game changing for me!
That is awesome! It is a collection of small changes over time that will make you a better rider and increase your confidence. Thank you for the comment!
Riding offroad-heavies for quite some time. Still this came as trully new. Always used to work heavy with my entire body 🙈 I'll check it out for sure 😎 thanks.
The techniques and tips on counter balancing are fantastic. But what really makes this video superb, in my opinion, is the instructor. The way in which he breaks stuff down, keeps it simply, and explains is easy to grasp and apply. Some other instructors complicate things too much. Where are your courses? Cheers from Bangkok Thailand.😀
ปีที่แล้ว +14
Coming from trials motorcycling, I now apply that technique to adv. Yes, you should always ride vertical and let the bike play around your legs; you drive with your legs using pressure on the pegs, and yes, ankles are key to this technique.
Correct foot placement and contact was MAGIC for me. I have a KTM 1290 and had the good fortune to attend.a Chris Birch class. I got my foot placement correct. Feet parallel with the wheels. Like stated here, get as much contact with your boots and bike frame. Bend at the hips and any counter balance is moving the hips like 'mum' closing a kitchen drawer. I was able to keep up with guys in 1000 or smaller bikes on trails by getting my boot position right.
this is the single best lesson for riding any dirt bike no matter what size or weight it is; feet, knees and hips are the biggest factor in controlling direction of travel for a bike on dirt; i would of liked to see some counter weighting for off-camber which is a skill of it's own.
@@SocalOffroadSchoolBeing an experienced enduro and MX racer, I know it is the same thing BUT 'weighting' is opposite in the situation of off-camber riding...It would of been useful for those that this type of instructional video is aimed at to demonstrate this.
@@SocalOffroadSchool You're very welcome...I like teaching people how to ride myself so know well that what we don't tell or show them will never be used. Have fun with the video.
Practically and technique wise I agree. But as a senior engineering student I think mathematically leaning will apply more torque since torque would be force (weight) times distance away from the motorcycle. So since you can’t increase your weight while riding you can lean farther away from the bike to apply more torque. That said if you can hammer a nail just fine with a hammer that has a 1 foot handle why would you try to hammer the nails with a 10 foot yes theoretically it’s better (if you ignore other downsides) but practically you won’t get the job done. By adjusting your weight onto one peg you are putting enough torque to move the bike without all the downsides of leaning like you stated. At the end this is just semantics and you’re right. This comment is just to help someone visualize why theoretically this technique works.
The main thing is that you can transfer your from 100% from one side to the other both quicker and smoother to manipulate the bike. Theoretically, the lean angle you would have to have to have your body apply a torque that is greater is more than you would think since most of the mass is centered on the body rather than at the tip of your head
@@Quinnjamin2020 The average head is 10 pounds. If the rider weighs 170 pounds and they can lean at least a foot away from the pegs the torque would be 95 ft•lbs versus 85 ft•lb that’s just a touch more than a 10% gain in torque. And that’s not including the weight of the other body parts (and gear like the helmet) that move with your head when you lean so it’s not that negligible. So it’s not much lean that you have to apply to increase the torque. Now like I stated you don’t need to do all of that; the torque you apply just by adjusting your weight on the pegs is more than enough to lean the bike how you want. Also the positives of being center and the negatives of leaning like stated in the video out way the increased torque especially when there isn’t a need to apply more torque in the first place to even start to justify leaning. I was already agreeing with the positives that you and the video stated; I just want to explain and provide a visual of why that is with my comment.
@@estro8817 Engineering "on paper" and the actual reality of things are sometimes two completely different things. I think I prefer to trust the guy that is actualy teaching and practicing this technique =)
I'm mostly self taught, only have 2000km on my Himalayan. All on mountain dirt tracks around home. I actually discovered, and started experimenting with this technique after my first 200km. I found it really beneficial to my riding even though this is the first time I've heard it discussed online.
I never heard that you had to shift that much weight but have heard to put the opposite knee into the tank, and let the turning side leg relax and let the bike lean under you, but you stay upright. This works, but I found on a lighter bike, when I put more heel weight on the peg while standing on gravel, it naturally turned to that side with little effort. This is what you are teaching. Simpler, effective, intuititve. I like it. I know it works. I also find when I stand with the posture you are describing, I actually feel more naturally in control! This is a very athletic posture. Good video. Great information.
i appreciate how much emphasis sedlak always puts on the pegs as the main point of contact and control. as an intermediate adv rider, but fairly skilled fixed gear cyclist, same with your pedals.
Thank you so much for the video. Exactly what I had been looking for and has been a long standing confusion for me. If someone is reading this, please clarify this confusion : So I understand that tilting the bike is an *old* technique - I have been struggling with this, sometimes I dont get the bike to turn enough ( Im still working on the technique ) In this old technique, you almost always stand vertical to teh ground - and the bike is tilted using the handle bars I also heard about the control-using-pegs technique - But I did not know this was a new technique : When you use the peg technique : 1. Do you tilt with the bike ( you are not vertical to the ground when you turn unlike the old technique ) ? 2. Does your waist move ?
I got to get out to your school. Often felt like I was fighting/upsetting the balance of the bike when counter balancing. Refreshing to see someone teaching another way. Looking forward to more on this per the video description.
This technique is so unique yet so effective that I can't thank you enough however the slow Enduro exercises need exaggerated knee flexes and body move around the bike to keep the balance but for trails this more than sufficient
this techniqueseems fine for more sweeping turns. tight switchbacks or tighter turns, seems to require more counterbalancing. no? maybe a video on that.
Hanging off the inside of the turn works great for the street but off road you do the opposite keeping your body weight over the contact patch of the tires pushing the bike down underneath you with your arms
I had some slow 360 turn clips with the bars on full lock for this video but unfortunately it was super windy that day and the sound was terrible. We will film some new clips next week and demonstrate this technique going slow and tight. Thanks for watching 👍🏻
So far, I've only seen you ride basically straight in your demo of how to position. To me, counter balancing is for when i am turning super tight and super slow where there is no gyroscopic force to keep the bike upright. I've never seen anyone teach to hang way off the side "counterbalancing" at riding speed, usually only at 2-3 mph. Feel free to correct me
i really love your videos! your an excellent teacher! ❤ one question about this vid🙏 how can you make a really tight turn without really leaning the bike and move it far away from you ? only pushing on the pag and stay centered to bike will be impossible
I note a lot of 'in fighting' in the comments. Guys both techniques have space in your skills set. And and and each rider will overtime develop an individual riding style which will inevitably be a blend of technique. A good guitarist rarely play 'textbook' style. Perhaps Sedlak must do a video on very very slow figure 8 riding on lose gravel while being centered on the bike and only use ankle pressure. Use a nice heavy bike. Say a BMW 1250 GS. That should settle the debate.
So, to clarify, on the sand road section of this clip, are you countersteering at the front of the bike and putting weight on the opposite side of the turn with a dropped heel? ie: a right hand turn will have you countersteering left at the front and also putting weight on the left hand peg with a dropped angle? I feel this is probably a basic question but I would like to ride faster on dirt roads but corners have had me a little confused. It feels very different from road riding!
Thanks for the question. If you watch the sand road part closely I barely turn the handlebars. I drop my inside heel to initiate the turn in and then I lean pretty far forward while I accelerate which gets the back end to swing out. Once the back end starts to slide I transfer the weight to the outside foot peg by dropping my outside heel. You can see that at 5:43-5:49. I don’t move my upper body or my legs very much and just turn the bike by transferring the weight in my ankles and with the throttle. These low traction sand roads are great to practice this because it’s easier to get the rear of the bike to step out on acceleration. Please let me know if that explanation makes sense 👍🏻
@@SocalOffroadSchool Thankyou for your clear answer. This hows that I've making some incorrect assumptions. I had a basic crash on a unsealed road corner as I am still learning dirt skills and I wanted to know where I went wrong in terms of technique. I've been riding on road for 17 years and assumed there would be differences but didn't realise there were so many! I am in Australia and fairly regional, so there aren't many trainers or schools within about 1600kms!
These are very important principles, weighting the pegs and using that to help steer the bike and minimize the need to use major counter steering inputs on slippery terrain. However, this particular discussion of counterweighting isn’t completely comprehensive in my opinion. To that point, watch Chris Birch’s latest video riding the 1290R on gravel roads, and compare his riding style to this presenter’s. To me, it’s up to a rider to see which style applies better to his or her bike and riding style.
Great video. My question is about leaning the bike. In slow technical terrain with a big bike, it seems necessary to lean the bike to get it to follow a tighter turn arc. I’ve been taught to lean the bike over but stay centered and vertical over the bikes contact patch with feet and lower legs tight to the bike. Is that contrary to what your teaching here or is that the same thing but just adding lean to the bike.
I'd like to know Sedlack's perspective on this. It seems very slow speed maneuvers require an increased lean angle of the bike. I'm counterbalancing above the contact patch with the bike leaning beneath an upright body.
He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I see this 2 ways: *1. Trading leverage for response time:* Peg weight allows for a fast ankle movement to apply a lot of force quickly. Hanging your body is actually more total leverage capable...at the cost of significantly more movement, time, and resulting effort. *Like a drunk riding a bicycle, the more delayed the response is - the more response is required.* Trying to move your upper body weight gets a doubled penalty: it already takes more effort to move your upper body, but also takes longer to do, meaning you have to move that even further... but now you are way out there, so to return to center or have to respond opposite takes even more time and effort... *2. It's a spectrum:* the closer to a flow state you are, the less input is required. The faster & more correct your response is the less response is needed to correct. So there is an optimal speed. *The further you get away from that flow state - the more you will have to compensate.* Eg go too slow, lose the flow. Balance and response time principles are still in play, but you no longer have momentum, gyroscopic stability, and trail helping. You have to compensate for all those manually. Eg go too fast: (street) and you won't be able to lean the bike past its max lean. To go faster than that tightness/speed, you will be forced to compensate by hanging your body off. (Also, street tires grip better closer to upright, so that's another competing factor to optimizing for minimal body movement) If you were in a competition for the absolute tightest, no-slip, slow speed turn, you are way outside a flow state speed. Minimal body movement gets thrown out the window in favor of absolute lean & bar angle. Still, fast response weighting is going to greatly improve your ability to balance. If you are riding on the freeway for 5hrs, you aren't going to stand the whole time. If something suddenly needs dodged, your weight is on your butt and you have too much gyroscopic stability. You aren't going to steer with your feet and slip the rear. You could literally *hop up and down on 1 foot peg with your full body weight and move **_only a few feet_** in your lane,* still mostly straight ahead. At that point, it's 95% pushing a bar forward. Every other response pales in comparison. (ps. Yes I have tried this with a 360lb light street bike. It's a healthy sobering realization that one's original plan of leaning to avoid an accident would have ended in failure if tested.
@@andrewstambaugh8030 The counterpoint we're making here in question to Sedlak has the upper body translating/moving through space a lot less than Sedlak's technique of keeping the upper body in line with the hips legs and ankles. Keeping the upper body in line with the mid and lower body requires the upper body to move further through space whenever the bike leans compared to keeping the upper body centered over the bike's contact patch. Keeping the upper body centered minimizes lateral translation of the upper body.
how do you reach the rear brake with your feet so far back on the footpegs? i had my forst offroad experience last weekend and was worried to not get to the brake fast enough if i needed it.
You just shift it forward. One trick to make it more fluid is to practice the transition when the bike is parked. You want to touch the rear brake lever with the tip of your boot, so you don't have to move it much.
how is it diferent from the motor cross riding, when I'm mx riding I always put my body weight on outside from the corner, and sit on the edge of the the seat，stretch foot towards to the corner's centre, could you please tell me the diference from the adv riding and mx riding
Great video, thanks for that, I am wondering because they told us, if we have to master a switchback in gravel you should hang off a little bit, so do you mean this technic would also work for that as well?
Yes, this technique will work for switchbacks as well. The more you can control the bike from a centered riding position, the easier it will be for you to get the bike to go where you want it to go.
Can you please make a multi camera angle video setup to see the heel thing. I am trying it after seeing you but when I do it its not affecting much. Maybe I am doing something wrong
Interesting technique. It surely elicits a lot of thinking for me. I think that experienced off road riders instinctively use their (unexaggerated) peg weight to maneuver. However, some experienced trainers offer a subtle version on counter balancing off road to keep traction on the outside of that back wheel. Wouldn’t a mix of the two techniques ( neither one exaggerated) work together? I also noticed that your upper body/standing posture on the bike is jack knifed on the bike. Are your bars to far forward? How does that apply to your training videos? I do very much enjoy your videos- thank you.
No. If you are trying to maximize turning aka take the smallest tightest circle (without drifting), that happens at max lean + slow speed. Normally speed naturally creates centripetal/centrifugal force, which is usually used to keep the bike in balance (as well as gyroscopic stability...). If you don't have speed, then nothing is counterbalancing your extreme lean - except your body. But if you are using this technique, your overall speed will probably increase into a flow state that avoids most slow full-lock situations. (eg take tight turns by intentionally slipping the rear/steering with the rear) Instead of being afraid and slowing down to take a turn slow and unstablized, you will naturally want to enter with enough speed to take the turn balanced.
I wanna try this out on my T7. So drop the heels on the inside of the turn (or outside)? I found the video section where you say this confusing because you said drop inside but on the vid your dropping your outside. 5:15
On corner entry you drop the inside heel and that will help turn the bike in. Once you have the bike turned in and you are making the turn, the pressure transfers to the outside foot peg as seen at 5:16. I ride with my heels pretty low in general to maximize the leverage in my ankles so it’s not as visible in that clip as it could be compared to someone that’s riding flat footed. Please let me know if that makes sense 👍🏻
@@SocalOffroadSchool thanks for the info, much appreciated. I tend to ride in with the footpegs in the middle of my boot when relaxing, then slide back for technical sections. I like this approach, I'm going to try it out on the next few rides and try and adapt it.
If you turn really tight at slow speeds you can lean the bike over a little bit more but we practice to still stay centered on the bike. We will make a video of really tight u turns using this technique to demonstrate the technique soon.
@@SocalOffroadSchool really looking forward to that video! Dialing in balance techniques for low speed and technical maneuvers is what I'm trying to focus on right now.
That's different. In the case of a tight U turn, you need to dip the bike underneath you to tighten that turn. There's not enough speed to enact inertia, so if you lean with the bike, you'll fall. In this case, you need to counterbalance with your upper body as well and stay perpendicular to the ground for better control (that way the bike can easily weave for adjustments). At slower speed, the bike moves underneath you way more than at speed, so the upper body needs to compensate more. Look at the body position some of these gymkhana riders have (like the police cone competitions), for example.
We will film this technique in slow tight sections next week and make a video about it. It’s pretty much the same technique as long as you are standing up when you are making the tight turn. Thanks for the question! That makes it easier to decide what to film next week.
Isn't the hanging of the side supposed to lean the bike over more, so you can make sharper turns on tight spots? I have never seen this take om the matter before and I am definitely gonna try it out. I always weight the pegs. So in a corner I am trying to put pressure on the outer peg to keep the weight centered over the bike, preventing it from sliding out from underneath you.
@@teneridertravels Gute Wahl 👍🏻 Ich hab seit ich nach Kalifornien gezogen bin keinen Kurs mehr gemacht in Deutschland. Könnte man aber ganz einfach anbieten, wenn genug Interesse da ist. Wo wohnst du in D?
Ask 5 different instructors about counterbalancing and you'll get 5 different answers. I think it depends on circumstances, big bike vs smaller bike, and personal style or taste. In other words - learn as much as possible and see what works for you.
I thought the idea behind counterbalancing is to keep the maximum amount of weight - my weight - directly above where the tire touches the ground. This helps to stop the tire from slipping out. Your method does the exact opposite. You are basically leaning into each curve like a street rider. This is ok when you have good grip on the road, but not ok when you have loose sand or gravel under your tires. This seems to be what is happening in your video when your rear tire is sliding away on each turn. Comments?
What? No. If that were the case, why would knobby tires have KNOBS on the edge? 😂🙄 Lean the bike, keep your body as centered as possible. Try not to lean the body very much.
Not many riders with Graham’s talent and bike feeling out in the world. We focus on teaching techniques that will help the average rider be better, safer and more efficient on two wheels 👍🏻
Load the inside peg on an off camber turn? I don't think so. Also, standing on the balls of your feet is just begging for an achilles tendon injury. Just ask Eli Tomac.
Worst advice ever. Its very clear that the kind of counter balance you sjow as wrong is for street riding, so that the bike lean less. The counter balance for off road riding is leaning the bike WHILE your body stays neutral, but the bike has to lean. Pushing with your feet is the dumbest thing ever, you think it works because you also create an imput in the bars and thats what make the bike turn. Warch other real and studied instructirs before calling yourself one just because you ride a bike. Watch motocross and you will se the bikes leaning and the bodies staying as neutral as posible. Worst advice ever, dont steal peoples money bay traching bad techniques
Like I said in the video, keep an open mind and give it a try instead of just jumping to conclusions. Thanks for watching and leaving multiple comments 🙏🏼
@@SocalOffroadSchool i ride off road and i've been in races, im not just making a comment. I also follow certified ADV instructurs such as brend hiemer from enduro action team, bret tkacs and others, im involved in the sport and believe that technique is the bases of everything. Thats why i dont like missinformation and spreading bad habbits.
@@davidvelez6341 glad to hear that you are a fellow rider and that you believe in training and improving riding technique. The next time you are out riding just try this technique and see how it feels when you are on the bike. If you still feel like it’s miss information after trying, luckily there are many other channels on TH-cam providing riding technique tips for you to watch. We’ve helped thousands of riders over the years become safer and more efficient on two wheels and I’m confident in the techniques we teach. All the best with your riding 👍🏻
@@stevehughes_5733 there is a big difference between knowing how to ride and knowing how to teach. Completely different skills. That being said, im not saying he doesnt know hoy to ride, its obvious he does. There are a lot of excelent riders that are awful at teaching.
Ankle position is definitely key. 👍 Not so sure about dropping the heels, it depends. Dropping both heels lowers center of gravity, but could take weight off the front tire/wheel. It depends on the circumstance as to whether it is a good idea. It will also tilt your pelvis/hips rearward, causing a possible imbalance. #biomechanics For sure it has some merit, but I would think in limited situations. Under hard braking, with regard to load transfer, would be an example of when to use the technique. Or when trying to get over an obstacle, moving body weight slightly back for a moment.
🚨 Train with me Online! I’m excited to launch The ADV ACADEMY! My entire Adventure Bike training curriculum is now available online. If you have gotten value out of my TH-cam videos, you are going to love the online course.
Check it out: www.theadvacademy.com
When I started riding dirt recently, I took a lesson at the local “counter balance” school and learned a LOT about how the bike and body can react to each other, it was a valuable lesson. Then, next lesson was at the Sedlak school with Edgar teaching… what a game changer! The bike immediately “flowed” and from then on when I ride it feels more like snowboarding or surfing than it does “bike riding”. I can’t recommend them and this style of riding enough!
Thanks Luke! Glad you enjoyed your session with Edgar and feel the difference in your riding 👍🏻
@5:25 Your upper body is basically stationary to the triple clamps and all body flex and movement occurs around the middle section as it should. Other so called experts are telling beginner ADV riders to pivot and move their upper body and as you explained, that leads to you always chasing the balance of the bike. Your body position keeps more weight on the front tire and it shows by how well the front is tracking straight while the rear tire is sliding around looking for traction.
This is by far the best video explaining the proper technique and the footage after the 5 minute mark shows it being performed flawlessly. Great job!
I took both the free RPM Member's class and the paid full-day class on my 1200GS at GetOn! ADV Fest this year. Everything Daniel is talking about works really well and plants you solidly, creating the foundation. Took the old XR650 to Moab last week and it was like the big red pig had been transformed, as though I had applied a cheat code, because I had learned Sedlak's off-road techniques on the big bike. The XR and I were much less nervous and worked together to rip some good lines. Thanks SOS!
I can’t believe I finally figured out how to initiate a turn while standing up. I’ve been riding for 2 years mostly road and started gravel last year but never felt comfortable turning standing up.
I tried your technique yesterday and it blew my mind. Game changing for me!
That is awesome! It is a collection of small changes over time that will make you a better rider and increase your confidence. Thank you for the comment!
So when you turn right u flower the left or right heel? That was unclear to me in this vid.
This is the sort of detail that's missing from other channels, super helpful! Can't wait to try this once I have my bike insured again this spring.
Thanks for watching 👍🏻 What bike do you ride?
@@SocalOffroadSchool A 2022 CB500X
Riding offroad-heavies for quite some time. Still this came as trully new. Always used to work heavy with my entire body 🙈 I'll check it out for sure 😎 thanks.
The techniques and tips on counter balancing are fantastic. But what really makes this video superb, in my opinion, is the instructor. The way in which he breaks stuff down, keeps it simply, and explains is easy to grasp and apply. Some other instructors complicate things too much. Where are your courses? Cheers from Bangkok Thailand.😀
Coming from trials motorcycling, I now apply that technique to adv. Yes, you should always ride vertical and let the bike play around your legs; you drive with your legs using pressure on the pegs, and yes, ankles are key to this technique.
Master of ADV BIKES
Appreciate your experience and excellent teaching skills
I am blessed to have you as My true sincere trainer ❤️🙏
Correct foot placement and contact was MAGIC for me. I have a KTM 1290 and had the good fortune to attend.a Chris Birch class. I got my foot placement correct. Feet parallel with the wheels. Like stated here, get as much contact with your boots and bike frame. Bend at the hips and any counter balance is moving the hips like 'mum' closing a kitchen drawer. I was able to keep up with guys in 1000 or smaller bikes on trails by getting my boot position right.
this is the single best lesson for riding any dirt bike no matter what size or weight it is; feet, knees and hips are the biggest factor in controlling direction of travel for a bike on dirt; i would of liked to see some counter weighting for off-camber which is a skill of it's own.
Same thing... counter weight on the balls of your feet (down hill side), but body is still centered on the bike.
@@SocalOffroadSchoolBeing an experienced enduro and MX racer, I know it is the same thing BUT 'weighting' is opposite in the situation of off-camber riding...It would of been useful for those that this type of instructional video is aimed at to demonstrate this.
@@markhills3922 you're right, that's a great idea for a future video. Thank you
@@SocalOffroadSchool You're very welcome...I like teaching people how to ride myself so know well that what we don't tell or show them will never be used. Have fun with the video.
Practically and technique wise I agree. But as a senior engineering student I think mathematically leaning will apply more torque since torque would be force (weight) times distance away from the motorcycle. So since you can’t increase your weight while riding you can lean farther away from the bike to apply more torque. That said if you can hammer a nail just fine with a hammer that has a 1 foot handle why would you try to hammer the nails with a 10 foot yes theoretically it’s better (if you ignore other downsides) but practically you won’t get the job done. By adjusting your weight onto one peg you are putting enough torque to move the bike without all the downsides of leaning like you stated. At the end this is just semantics and you’re right. This comment is just to help someone visualize why theoretically this technique works.
The main thing is that you can transfer your from 100% from one side to the other both quicker and smoother to manipulate the bike. Theoretically, the lean angle you would have to have to have your body apply a torque that is greater is more than you would think since most of the mass is centered on the body rather than at the tip of your head
@@Quinnjamin2020 The average head is 10 pounds. If the rider weighs 170 pounds and they can lean at least a foot away from the pegs the torque would be 95 ft•lbs versus 85 ft•lb that’s just a touch more than a 10% gain in torque. And that’s not including the weight of the other body parts (and gear like the helmet) that move with your head when you lean so it’s not that negligible. So it’s not much lean that you have to apply to increase the torque. Now like I stated you don’t need to do all of that; the torque you apply just by adjusting your weight on the pegs is more than enough to lean the bike how you want. Also the positives of being center and the negatives of leaning like stated in the video out way the increased torque especially when there isn’t a need to apply more torque in the first place to even start to justify leaning. I was already agreeing with the positives that you and the video stated; I just want to explain and provide a visual of why that is with my comment.
I've proven engineers wrong many times. Just because you are an engineer, doesn't make you an expert on this.
@@estro8817 Engineering "on paper" and the actual reality of things are sometimes two completely different things. I think I prefer to trust the guy that is actualy teaching and practicing this technique =)
@@estro8817your explanation really helped. Thanks!
I'm mostly self taught, only have 2000km on my Himalayan. All on mountain dirt tracks around home. I actually discovered, and started experimenting with this technique after my first 200km. I found it really beneficial to my riding even though this is the first time I've heard it discussed online.
I never heard that you had to shift that much weight but have heard to put the opposite knee into the tank, and let the turning side leg relax and let the bike lean under you, but you stay upright. This works, but I found on a lighter bike, when I put more heel weight on the peg while standing on gravel, it naturally turned to that side with little effort. This is what you are teaching. Simpler, effective, intuititve. I like it. I know it works. I also find when I stand with the posture you are describing, I actually feel more naturally in control! This is a very athletic posture. Good video. Great information.
Been doing this the last month, now I need a rear tire. It's so much fun!
i appreciate how much emphasis sedlak always puts on the pegs as the main point of contact and control. as an intermediate adv rider, but fairly skilled fixed gear cyclist, same with your pedals.
Thank you so much for the video. Exactly what I had been looking for and has been a long standing confusion for me.
If someone is reading this, please clarify this confusion :
So I understand that tilting the bike is an *old* technique - I have been struggling with this, sometimes I dont get the bike to turn enough ( Im still working on the technique )
In this old technique, you almost always stand vertical to teh ground - and the bike is tilted using the handle bars
I also heard about the control-using-pegs technique - But I did not know this was a new technique :
When you use the peg technique :
1. Do you tilt with the bike ( you are not vertical to the ground when you turn unlike the old technique ) ?
2. Does your waist move ?
I got to get out to your school. Often felt like I was fighting/upsetting the balance of the bike when counter balancing. Refreshing to see someone teaching another way. Looking forward to more on this per the video description.
Thank You! Would be great to see you at one of our schools. Do you live in Southern California?
@@SocalOffroadSchool Northern IL. When I am out that way I will make it happen. Cheers.
totaly agree only time you counter balance is like 10mph or slower really (offroad)
This technique is so unique yet so effective that I can't thank you enough however the slow Enduro exercises need exaggerated knee flexes and body move around the bike to keep the balance but for trails this more than sufficient
Stay ready, react and back to ready! Ok got it👍
Thanks for watching 👍🏻
this techniqueseems fine for more sweeping turns. tight switchbacks or tighter turns, seems to require more counterbalancing. no? maybe a video on that.
wow.. incredibile video.. thank you for sharing.. hi from Italy
Hanging off the inside of the turn works great for the street but off road you do the opposite keeping your body weight over the contact patch of the tires pushing the bike down underneath you with your arms
How fantastic. This is 'really ' helpful. Learning all the time. Much appreciated. Cheers, Simon, Australia
Thanks Simon!
Thanks for the lesson on a very important technique. It will make a huge difference in my off-road riding.
you make it sound so simple and obvious.. thanks
Hi, please show us how to use this technique, when riding slow and locking the steering to either end to make a 180 degree to 360-degree turn.
I had some slow 360 turn clips with the bars on full lock for this video but unfortunately it was super windy that day and the sound was terrible. We will film some new clips next week and demonstrate this technique going slow and tight. Thanks for watching 👍🏻
still waiting detail video
Thank you for very informative, helpful videos. Coming of the street bikes to ADV is like learning to walk again 😂
So far, I've only seen you ride basically straight in your demo of how to position. To me, counter balancing is for when i am turning super tight and super slow where there is no gyroscopic force to keep the bike upright. I've never seen anyone teach to hang way off the side "counterbalancing" at riding speed, usually only at 2-3 mph. Feel free to correct me
i really love your videos! your an excellent teacher! ❤
one question about this vid🙏
how can you make a really tight turn without really leaning the bike and move it far away from you ? only pushing on the pag and stay centered to bike will be impossible
alright! Bro nailed it all. All we need to know is here. Will be watching for more
This heel thing works...thanks👍
Yes .. If you stand on that peg it's going in the ditch, this is how I ride my Africa Twin
Works off jumps too set up with a corner on MX tracks as well.
Thanks 🙏🏻 I'll give it a try and going to practise it 💙💛🏁🤛🏼
Let me know how you feel once you tried it. Thank You 👍🏻
Does this counterbalance technique hold for lighter dual sport motorcycles as well (going off road)?
Interesting point. Definitely I am going to try it.
Thanks for the video.
Thanks !
I'll try this tomorrow for sure .👍
great video and explanation of how to counterbalance works.
I note a lot of 'in fighting' in the comments. Guys both techniques have space in your skills set. And and and each rider will overtime develop an individual riding style which will inevitably be a blend of technique. A good guitarist rarely play 'textbook' style. Perhaps Sedlak must do a video on very very slow figure 8 riding on lose gravel while being centered on the bike and only use ankle pressure. Use a nice heavy bike. Say a BMW 1250 GS. That should settle the debate.
Thanks
You're welcome!
Thank you! Fantastic training video, as always.
Thank You 🙏🏼
So, to clarify, on the sand road section of this clip, are you countersteering at the front of the bike and putting weight on the opposite side of the turn with a dropped heel? ie: a right hand turn will have you countersteering left at the front and also putting weight on the left hand peg with a dropped angle? I feel this is probably a basic question but I would like to ride faster on dirt roads but corners have had me a little confused. It feels very different from road riding!
Thanks for the question. If you watch the sand road part closely I barely turn the handlebars. I drop my inside heel to initiate the turn in and then I lean pretty far forward while I accelerate which gets the back end to swing out. Once the back end starts to slide I transfer the weight to the outside foot peg by dropping my outside heel. You can see that at 5:43-5:49. I don’t move my upper body or my legs very much and just turn the bike by transferring the weight in my ankles and with the throttle.
These low traction sand roads are great to practice this because it’s easier to get the rear of the bike to step out on acceleration. Please let me know if that explanation makes sense 👍🏻
@@SocalOffroadSchool Thankyou for your clear answer. This hows that I've making some incorrect assumptions. I had a basic crash on a unsealed road corner as I am still learning dirt skills and I wanted to know where I went wrong in terms of technique. I've been riding on road for 17 years and assumed there would be differences but didn't realise there were so many! I am in Australia and fairly regional, so there aren't many trainers or schools within about 1600kms!
These are very important principles, weighting the pegs and using that to help steer the bike and minimize the need to use major counter steering inputs on slippery terrain. However, this particular discussion of counterweighting isn’t completely comprehensive in my opinion. To that point, watch Chris Birch’s latest video riding the 1290R on gravel roads, and compare his riding style to this presenter’s. To me, it’s up to a rider to see which style applies better to his or her bike and riding style.
Thanks for the tips.
Thanks for watching 👍🏻
Do you have a video for How to change gears while standing @SedlakOffroadSchool
OK, but what about cornering at low speed, u-turn, for ex.?
Great video. My question is about leaning the bike. In slow technical terrain with a big bike, it seems necessary to lean the bike to get it to follow a tighter turn arc. I’ve been taught to lean the bike over but stay centered and vertical over the bikes contact patch with feet and lower legs tight to the bike. Is that contrary to what your teaching here or is that the same thing but just adding lean to the bike.
I'd like to know Sedlack's perspective on this. It seems very slow speed maneuvers require an increased lean angle of the bike. I'm counterbalancing above the contact patch with the bike leaning beneath an upright body.
@@omicrondec was thinking the same, you still keep your body centered over the pivot point - doesn't look that much upright then anymore ofc :D
He can correct me if I'm wrong, but I see this 2 ways:
*1. Trading leverage for response time:* Peg weight allows for a fast ankle movement to apply a lot of force quickly. Hanging your body is actually more total leverage capable...at the cost of significantly more movement, time, and resulting effort.
*Like a drunk riding a bicycle, the more delayed the response is - the more response is required.*
Trying to move your upper body weight gets a doubled penalty: it already takes more effort to move your upper body, but also takes longer to do, meaning you have to move that even further... but now you are way out there, so to return to center or have to respond opposite takes even more time and effort...
*2. It's a spectrum:* the closer to a flow state you are, the less input is required. The faster & more correct your response is the less response is needed to correct. So there is an optimal speed. *The further you get away from that flow state - the more you will have to compensate.*
Eg go too slow, lose the flow. Balance and response time principles are still in play, but you no longer have momentum, gyroscopic stability, and trail helping. You have to compensate for all those manually.
Eg go too fast: (street) and you won't be able to lean the bike past its max lean. To go faster than that tightness/speed, you will be forced to compensate by hanging your body off. (Also, street tires grip better closer to upright, so that's another competing factor to optimizing for minimal body movement)
If you were in a competition for the absolute tightest, no-slip, slow speed turn, you are way outside a flow state speed. Minimal body movement gets thrown out the window in favor of absolute lean & bar angle. Still, fast response weighting is going to greatly improve your ability to balance.
If you are riding on the freeway for 5hrs, you aren't going to stand the whole time. If something suddenly needs dodged, your weight is on your butt and you have too much gyroscopic stability. You aren't going to steer with your feet and slip the rear. You could literally *hop up and down on 1 foot peg with your full body weight and move **_only a few feet_** in your lane,* still mostly straight ahead. At that point, it's 95% pushing a bar forward. Every other response pales in comparison.
(ps. Yes I have tried this with a 360lb light street bike. It's a healthy sobering realization that one's original plan of leaning to avoid an accident would have ended in failure if tested.
@@andrewstambaugh8030 The counterpoint we're making here in question to Sedlak has the upper body translating/moving through space a lot less than Sedlak's technique of keeping the upper body in line with the hips legs and ankles. Keeping the upper body in line with the mid and lower body requires the upper body to move further through space whenever the bike leans compared to keeping the upper body centered over the bike's contact patch. Keeping the upper body centered minimizes lateral translation of the upper body.
how do you reach the rear brake with your feet so far back on the footpegs? i had my forst offroad experience last weekend and was worried to not get to the brake fast enough if i needed it.
You just shift it forward. One trick to make it more fluid is to practice the transition when the bike is parked. You want to touch the rear brake lever with the tip of your boot, so you don't have to move it much.
@@SocalOffroadSchool thanks a lot for the reply! :)
how is it diferent from the motor cross riding, when I'm mx riding I always put my body weight on outside from the corner, and sit on the edge of the the seat，stretch foot towards to the corner's centre, could you please tell me the diference from the adv riding and mx riding
Great video, thanks for that, I am wondering because they told us, if we have to master a switchback in gravel you should hang off a little bit, so do you mean this technic would also work for that as well?
Yes, this technique will work for switchbacks as well. The more you can control the bike from a centered riding position, the easier it will be for you to get the bike to go where you want it to go.
@@SocalOffroadSchool thank you for the quick response, I will try 🙏🙏
Really well explained, nice work. This can be such a controversial subject and it just shouldn't be! Good job!
Thank You Steve 👍🏻 Time for us to get that ADV School in Portland scheduled for this summer.
Can you please make a multi camera angle video setup to see the heel thing. I am trying it after seeing you but when I do it its not affecting much. Maybe I am doing something wrong
wonderful video
Thank You 🙏🏼
Interesting technique. It surely elicits a lot of thinking for me. I think that experienced off road riders instinctively use their (unexaggerated) peg weight to maneuver. However, some experienced trainers offer a subtle version on counter balancing off road to keep traction on the outside of that back wheel. Wouldn’t a mix of the two techniques ( neither one exaggerated) work together? I also noticed that your upper body/standing posture on the bike is jack knifed on the bike. Are your bars to far forward? How does that apply to your training videos? I do very much enjoy your videos- thank you.
Good ole (un)common sense. Great videos; thanks!
Nice i would try it 👍
Let me know how it feels when you try it 👍🏻
Great video!
Thanks Padu 🙏🏼
Thank you, love your vids
Thanks for your tips. Does this work for slow full lock turns as well?
No. If you are trying to maximize turning aka take the smallest tightest circle (without drifting), that happens at max lean + slow speed.
Normally speed naturally creates centripetal/centrifugal force, which is usually used to keep the bike in balance (as well as gyroscopic stability...). If you don't have speed, then nothing is counterbalancing your extreme lean - except your body.
But if you are using this technique, your overall speed will probably increase into a flow state that avoids most slow full-lock situations. (eg take tight turns by intentionally slipping the rear/steering with the rear)
Instead of being afraid and slowing down to take a turn slow and unstablized, you will naturally want to enter with enough speed to take the turn balanced.
I wanna try this out on my T7.
So drop the heels on the inside of the turn (or outside)? I found the video section where you say this confusing because you said drop inside but on the vid your dropping your outside. 5:15
On corner entry you drop the inside heel and that will help turn the bike in. Once you have the bike turned in and you are making the turn, the pressure transfers to the outside foot peg as seen at 5:16.
I ride with my heels pretty low in general to maximize the leverage in my ankles so it’s not as visible in that clip as it could be compared to someone that’s riding flat footed. Please let me know if that makes sense 👍🏻
@@SocalOffroadSchool thanks for the info, much appreciated. I tend to ride in with the footpegs in the middle of my boot when relaxing, then slide back for technical sections. I like this approach, I'm going to try it out on the next few rides and try and adapt it.
Can we also use this technique in tight U turns. I feel counterbalancing will be a better option there.
If you turn really tight at slow speeds you can lean the bike over a little bit more but we practice to still stay centered on the bike. We will make a video of really tight u turns using this technique to demonstrate the technique soon.
@@SocalOffroadSchool really looking forward to that video! Dialing in balance techniques for low speed and technical maneuvers is what I'm trying to focus on right now.
PERFECT
Thanks Robert 👍🏻
awesome
Real technical, not all the BS in ADV scools.
What if you are doing a tight slow U turn.. How does this work?
That's different. In the case of a tight U turn, you need to dip the bike underneath you to tighten that turn. There's not enough speed to enact inertia, so if you lean with the bike, you'll fall. In this case, you need to counterbalance with your upper body as well and stay perpendicular to the ground for better control (that way the bike can easily weave for adjustments). At slower speed, the bike moves underneath you way more than at speed, so the upper body needs to compensate more. Look at the body position some of these gymkhana riders have (like the police cone competitions), for example.
We will film this technique in slow tight sections next week and make a video about it. It’s pretty much the same technique as long as you are standing up when you are making the tight turn. Thanks for the question! That makes it easier to decide what to film next week.
@@ApocalypseNouille Spot on.. appreciate your input..
Isn't the hanging of the side supposed to lean the bike over more, so you can make sharper turns on tight spots? I have never seen this take om the matter before and I am definitely gonna try it out. I always weight the pegs. So in a corner I am trying to put pressure on the outer peg to keep the weight centered over the bike, preventing it from sliding out from underneath you.
Offroad no. You want to keep your body centered as much possible. Lean the bike not the body offroad.
@@rider65 I think you didn't read that correctly😉
GREAT
🎉🎉
Now, can all “off-road” courses teach this (?) …
thanks a lot❤❤❤
I think I will Listen to Chris Birch
Well explained Daniel! Especially the "drop your heel" idea is new to me, will give it a try soon over here in Germany. Subscribed! Greetings, Jan
Danke Jan! Was für Motorrad fährst du? Sobald der Frühling da ist, kann es los gehen für euch in 🇩🇪
@@SocalOffroadSchool Eine T7, so wie du - leider in deutlich langweiligerem Terrain! Gibst du auch Kurse in D?
@@teneridertravels Gute Wahl 👍🏻 Ich hab seit ich nach Kalifornien gezogen bin keinen Kurs mehr gemacht in Deutschland. Könnte man aber ganz einfach anbieten, wenn genug Interesse da ist. Wo wohnst du in D?
@@SocalOffroadSchool Im Rheinland zwischen Köln und Düsseldorf. Ich wäre auf jeden Fall bei einem ein- oder zweitägigen Kurs am Start! 🙂
@@SocalOffroadSchool ich auch!
watched our videos, tried it for myself, worked, went to an adv training and was told that my foot on the pegs are wrong.
A lot of ADV instructors teach outdated curriculums. Glad that you tried it yourself and felt the difference in your riding. Thanks for watching 👍🏻
????? What happened to weighting the outside peg.
You are still doing it, but with your upper body centered on the body
Ask 5 different instructors about counterbalancing and you'll get 5 different answers. I think it depends on circumstances, big bike vs smaller bike, and personal style or taste. In other words - learn as much as possible and see what works for you.
And i guess you can do 180 turns in a parking lot space with this technique haha. There is no way to make a tight turn without leaning the bike .
Great vid again! clear explanation of foot control!
Thank You Jim
let’s not confuse cornering where you lean your bike with mild inclination. when cornering, you definitely don’t want to stay straight on your bike.
I thought the idea behind counterbalancing is to keep the maximum amount of weight - my weight - directly above where the tire touches the ground. This helps to stop the tire from slipping out. Your method does the exact opposite. You are basically leaning into each curve like a street rider. This is ok when you have good grip on the road, but not ok when you have loose sand or gravel under your tires. This seems to be what is happening in your video when your rear tire is sliding away on each turn. Comments?
99% hey!?!? Bahahaha! I have literally never seen anyone counter balance by hanging off the bike if they are off pavement.
I do understand your lesson.
You are saying pushing the edge nobbies into the terrain isn't effective in cornering traction ?
What? No. If that were the case, why would knobby tires have KNOBS on the edge? 😂🙄
Lean the bike, keep your body as centered as possible. Try not to lean the body very much.
Bump
SOmeone better call Graham Jarvis and tell him he has been riding wrong all these years. The truth is that both techniques have their uses
Not many riders with Graham’s talent and bike feeling out in the world. We focus on teaching techniques that will help the average rider be better, safer and more efficient on two wheels 👍🏻
Algorithm
Load the inside peg on an off camber turn? I don't think so. Also, standing on the balls of your feet is just begging for an achilles tendon injury. Just ask Eli Tomac.
Worst advice ever. Its very clear that the kind of counter balance you sjow as wrong is for street riding, so that the bike lean less.
The counter balance for off road riding is leaning the bike WHILE your body stays neutral, but the bike has to lean. Pushing with your feet is the dumbest thing ever, you think it works because you also create an imput in the bars and thats what make the bike turn.
Warch other real and studied instructirs before calling yourself one just because you ride a bike. Watch motocross and you will se the bikes leaning and the bodies staying as neutral as posible.
Worst advice ever, dont steal peoples money bay traching bad techniques
Like I said in the video, keep an open mind and give it a try instead of just jumping to conclusions. Thanks for watching and leaving multiple comments 🙏🏼
Imagine telling an international pro motocross racer to "go watch motocross" 🤦🏻♂️😂
@@SocalOffroadSchool i ride off road and i've been in races, im not just making a comment. I also follow certified ADV instructurs such as brend hiemer from enduro action team, bret tkacs and others, im involved in the sport and believe that technique is the bases of everything. Thats why i dont like missinformation and spreading bad habbits.
@@davidvelez6341 glad to hear that you are a fellow rider and that you believe in training and improving riding technique. The next time you are out riding just try this technique and see how it feels when you are on the bike. If you still feel like it’s miss information after trying, luckily there are many other channels on TH-cam providing riding technique tips for you to watch. We’ve helped thousands of riders over the years become safer and more efficient on two wheels and I’m confident in the techniques we teach. All the best with your riding 👍🏻
@@stevehughes_5733 there is a big difference between knowing how to ride and knowing how to teach. Completely different skills. That being said, im not saying he doesnt know hoy to ride, its obvious he does.
There are a lot of excelent riders that are awful at teaching.
Ankle position is definitely key. 👍
Not so sure about dropping the heels, it depends. Dropping both heels lowers center of gravity, but could take weight off the front tire/wheel. It depends on the circumstance as to whether it is a good idea. It will also tilt your pelvis/hips rearward, causing a possible imbalance. #biomechanics
For sure it has some merit, but I would think in limited situations. Under hard braking, with regard to load transfer, would be an example of when to use the technique. Or when trying to get over an obstacle, moving body weight slightly back for a moment.