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Rick Shiels Golf was a regular until my driver fitting today. Now a stiff in a Ping g 400 max, standard length. Mental as I went in thinking I needed a shortened regular shaft.
It would be interesting to see this test carried out by some one with a swing speed of 80/85 mph and then see what the difference would be. As we have seen Rick you can pretty much hit anything
Paul H That’s exactly right. Long driving golf champion Kyle, said that he used lower flex shafts for his long drive competition because the flex produces more speed and distance, but reduced accuracy, and accuracy is not the priority in long drive, all you need is one good hit out of 8 tries. When he plays regular golf he uses stiffer shafts for better accuracy.
I'd love to see this test compared to a slower swing speed player under the same conditions. I honestly think a lower swing speed player would struggle to get the stiff and extra stiff off the ground, but your speed is enough to actually flex those shafts.
FWIW- I have an 85mph clubhead speed (moderate tempo) with a driver and just finished a full set fitting using Trackman with multiple different shafts (A,R,S of different makes) in both irons and 'long' clubs (driver, fairways, 3/4 hybrid). Found an A flex shaft that gave me significantly more distance & accuracy, but observed little difference between shafts with the long clubs. Of course my swing feel was different with A-flex vs stiff, but actual distance/accuracy was quite similar. Very surprising to me, but fitter observed I tend to go after my long clubs harder so load the shaft differently.
Thanks Rick! This comparison was super helpful! I have been using a Regular flex since I started playing. I am now almost 75 years old and I have found my swing speed slowing down, plus I have really shorted my back swing to achieve more control and accuracy. I think I have reached the A-flex category. 😀
Rick...Thanks for this video...I've been struggling with the idea of changing the shaft on my Big Bertha...I hit it just fine with the stiff shaft that I have but my friends tell me I could get more distance if I switched to regular or senior... I'm 71 and after watching this video I'm convinced that it just won't make enough difference to affect my game... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
The difference between Rick and you are on the polar oppposite. Rick is still able to generate alot of swing speed, which might have little impact on which shaft he uses. While you won't be able to genereate a fast natural swing speed like Rick here. My best bet would be for a slower swing speed, you should get fitted to the A shaft since it might create more bend on your shafts with your slower swing speed.
A great demonstration of different shaft flex's. I believe that each manufacturer have their own flex standards. Thanks, Rick, very enjoyable to watch your demos: clubs, balls and now shafts.👍
Great video, Rick! One thing I did notice that the R-flex and S-flex have a same weight, with X-flex being the heaviest and A-flex being lightest. Considering the results, I was wondering if the weight, rather than flex, could possibly be a bigger factor in different results.
I have a driver swing speed of 110mph and use a 55g regular shaft. I've hit X stiff most of my life but I tried the regular for a laugh and it felt so nice. It took me a while to get over the ego thing, but eventually I swapped it into my driver. It go's great.
Really interesting. I've just bought a complete set of Callaway clubs, alright they're twenty years old (X12 irons and Big Bertha Warbird driver, 3 & 5 woods) they cost fifty quid in a charity shop.. Because I'm over fifty and haven't played for twenty years I was slightly concerned about the shafts being rated as stiff. This has made me a bit more relaxed.
Helpful video. Thanks. I’m another one who wants to know how much flex matters for slower speed swing like mine. And for clubs other than driver. I’m 74. Love my new Ping G400 driver at 12º with senior flex. My good drives are about 200. Thought it was the senior flex that was making a big positive difference. But now I’m thinking it could be adjusting my swing a bit, higher loft, and confidence. Better distance and usually in the short grass. Now I’m looking for probably a Cobra F9 or F8 3/4 (bafflers) fairway wood. And now I’m thinking I can maybe go for either senior (or ladies) or regular flex. Maybe not much difference between senior and regular flex for my slow swing. I’m guessing the flex won’t change my 3 wood distance more than a couple yards. This video is very helpful. I’ll keep researching. Also I’m encouraged that I probably won’t need to worry about switching to a stiffer flex when I suddenly get a lot stronger or faster. 😏
Thanks, Rick, great review and confirms a lot of my suspicions about shaft flex. Only thing I noticed was the A-Flex launch angle was a lot lower than the other three which might add a bit of distance, but it also had the highest spin rate.
Great video as always.. The numbers are very similar but the dispersion for the X flex vs the A flex is much better for a swing speed similar to Rick's. You will be straighter and hit more fairways so it is still important to get fitted for the right flex for your speed.
I really thought there would be a much larger difference. I hit regular but I happen to have a driver with a senior flex. Im taking it to the range next week. Im intrigued! Thanks Rick. Im a returning player after not playing for years. Your videos have helped me so much. If only we would have had TH-cam 25 years ago right? Keep em coming friend.
Even without beer, if one has fun, it all that counts. Remember: We PAY to play golf, we are not PAID to play golf ! A heck of a difference. People who have never taken a single lesson, never hit practice balls, and do not go to the gym, will never hit 300 yds of the gold markers and will never play ''scratch'' except maybe a few and far apart gifted guys ! Let's get real here !
I have been playing with an A flex ever since I have started, it gives me great distance of between 260-280 and sometimes I even touch 300yards when it goes straight. Other times I am exploring the woods mostly to the right. I just love the twang it has to it. Have thought of changing the shaft to get straighter hits, however I would first like to see if it is going to improve my accuracy. This video gives me certainty that I could keep mine and just work on my swing.
Rick, like your videos but not your conclusion that shaft flex is irrelevant. You should redo this test but without multiple mulligans. Instead of hitting one shot after another with the same shaft, try hitting only one shot with each, which is how golf is played. If you need more data to get a good average, repeat the sequence. On the golf course, many minutes elapse between driver shots. Also, you will find that you can hit the A flex driver the same average distance after 10 or 20 tries, because you make small unconscious adjustments between consecutive shots that poorer players cannot make. You would add 3 shots to your handicap if you played everyday with an A flex driver, because you would miss fairways left and right.
This is now the 2nd Golf Pro video I've seen that tested the shaft flex fit guide and swing feel ratings and ended up surprised. Nick Taylor Golf also did a similar test and shot best with an A flex rated shaft even with his fast 100+ swing speed. This just proves no amount of equipment tech can make as much of a difference as a swing technique improvement can.
Really enjoyed your video about driver shaft flex comparison. Would like to see a comparison of expensive high end shafts to cheaper ones. Is it worth the money for the difference? Keep up the good work.
I'd say No....likely ALL marketing garbage just to suck those $$$ out of peoples pockets! Especially after seeing that A flex came in second for total distance!
You answer a question that everyone has but won't ask because real men hit a driver with a stiff shaft. Really enjoyed the analysis and your candid, dry British sense of humor always makes for good watching. Best, Bob
Fantastic test. I've been looking for this test for a while wondering if a different shaft would help me hit straighter. One of your best. Thanks for all you do.
I'm 70 and just got new irons (Ping G400s) last fall with R shafts. My Mizuno driver has an R shaft too. I was fitted for all these clubs and like them a lot. Deciding I needed a 5 hybrid, I tried a Ping G400 with an A flex and hit it great (no fitting, I just pulled it out of the pro shop and tried it). Nothing to the left (unless I pulled one of my crappy swings out). Played in a tournament a couple of days after I bought it and was hitting it 180-185 and even backed one up, which I never did with my 5-iron. So I would agree with Rick's assessment that flex may not matter all that much.
@@capndave8474 i am 66 and have shafts in Regular, A- Flex and Ladies flex, all of which I can hit pretty well. My Driver swing speed is 85-90 m.p.h My take on this issue is that you hit a few shots with the club and automatically compensate with aim for that club shaft. I bought two Nike Vapor speed Drivers, one with R flex and one with A- Flex. I found the 45.5 inch A-Flex went a bit high left, so I shortened the shaft to 44.5 inches ( butt cut ) and the high left shots went away. The confusing issue is that there is no standard for shaft flex between different brands, so we are none the wiser when trying to compare shaft flex.
@@indychuckluck I'm 54 with several injuries and I recently switched from a 60 gram stiff to a 40 gram soft flex. Not much difference in performance but I do like the feel of the lighter shaft. I feel like I can swing slower but still get some decent distance.
Fantastic comparison. Used an A Flex driver today and I thought I was crazy for loving it. Played 9 holes and 6 out of 7 drives were great and 1 wasn't too bad, even managed to save par. Now I know not to worry about it and just enjoy it.
As much as I love Rick's tests, I wonder how different clubs might perform for a mid-handicapper vs. for him. I suspect there's a big difference at times.
These kinds of reviews are just great Rick. It tells me once again that we golfers often make our choices based on influences from marketing and hyoe rather than feel and actual results. Thumbs up - love it.
What an awesome test, thank you! I'm getting fitted this season for a new driver and been going down the rabbit hole on "what's more important...shaft or club head?" This test was very helpful! Thank you!!
sir rick.. get a senior who has a wing of 80mph and a good swing at that and have him do the blind test and I would bet that will make a wold of difference
@Ming K A much lower kick point with a faster swing speed means more "bow" at the bottom and middle of the shaft. Thus the club face delofts more and comes out lower and left.
@@shrimpflea I can both agree and disagree. If the weight of the shaft is the same (i.e 60 to 70 grams) there will be very little difference if any. Shaft weight and torque is for feel. The higher the flex; the lower the torque and vice versa. However; then we look at the model. CK Pro has 4 different models. Red; Blue, Orange and White (in ascending order according to MCA test results for launch and spin preferences). If we compare the blue to the white; blue has mid kick and white has high kick. Meaning that the ck white is significantly stiffer in the tip and mid points of the shaft. While at Edwin Watts golf store in my hometown we put it to the test. We gave an older man in his late 50s a blue then a white CK shaft at 86 grams TX flex. He had roughly about 85 swing speed. The blue he managed to get off the ground but it missed well right. The CK white he could hardly get off the ground and it sprayed farther right. He complained that the shaft was too heavy and he couldn't put anything behind it. So we gave him the 60 grams instead with the same flex. He hit them much better than the heavier counterparts; but he still missed right every time; just not as severe as the first ones. We came to the conclusion that a 60 X flex and an 86 X are 2 completely different flexes from each other. The heavier; the less flex.
@Ming K Correct. Attack angle could give a different result. Is it shallow or steep? A more rounded swing would most likely open the face more; while a more upright swing would have it more delofted at the bottom. I'll agree that shaft isn't everything; but with todays technology on graphite shafts, it can make a significant change for some. I'm not bandwagoning or anything; but i consider that if 99% of professional golfers use X flex, it must be for a reason. If the shaft made absolutely no difference; then they would play different flexes. I know you could say it's just a marketing gimmic; but they could still market shafts with A or R flex if that was the case.
Very interesting, I suspected this outcome because I play a mixed bag of Regular shaft for irons and Stiff for everything else. Thank you for showing us the numbers.
Thank for another informative video. Glad to see that I don't need to get bogged down in the Stiff vs Reg for me. I love the feel of my reg shaft on my Ping G410 Plus
Jesse Steffen agreed! Rick, great idea and very interesting result for fast swinger like you, but you really need a part 2 and 3 with an average(95?) and a slow(85?) speed swinger. We would love to see that!
I think a lot of us would like to see that.. Me included. Just aa I'd like to get a reply to my question how can you rate the Vokey SM 7 excellent then rate the Wilson only ok when they basically had the same numbers on your GC quad
Thanks Rick. Looking at upgrading to new Callaway Mavriks, driver and irons and was worried about going between stiff and regular flex. You’ve put my mind at ease with whatever I get set up with when I get fitted for these clubs.
I just found this video and it reminded me that I had a couple of Yonex Fairway Woods some years ago (3 and 5) and won a club fitting session. When I went to the fitter he tested the shafts on a device where you clamp the but end and then pull the head back and release it so it vibrates over a sensor. He was able to tell me that, although both shafts were marked 'Standard', the one on the 3 Wood was actually XXStiff - no wonder I hit it out to the right every time! His advice was, find a club that works for you and then buy THAT ONE, not another with the same markings on it as manufacturing tolerences are so wide on off the shelf shafts that the markings are meaningless. It would have been interesting to see you try this vibration test on these shafts and see if they actually fitted their ratings.
Rick, love your videos! I believe, just like some others have mentioned that the results may be quite different with slower swing speed players. They would probably get much more out of the regular and senior flex as they probably can't load the stiff and x-stiff shafts. What about testing similar shafts with different kick points to see the effects on distance and accuracy?
I remember a time when you would make snide comments about Mark Crossfield's "shaft flex doesn't matter" viewpoint. Now it looks like you've jumped on his wagon of alternative thinking.
Not really, if you pause the video at 6:15 you can see a CLEAR correlation of dispersion getting better the stiffer up the flex you go. Its also important to remember all golfers are different, angle of attack, swing tempo etc are all factors. So some golfers would get bigger results than this test. I had both the ping tour S and X and I definitely got better results with the x flex.
@@Dynamic3DLtd Seriously just look at a club fitting on the TXG channel. Not only do they get different numbers with different flexes, but also much different results between different shafts of the same flex. Shaft is very important to things like launch angle, and spin rate and the flex is crucial for dispersion.
Rick, Thanks very much for making this video. I recently bought a M4 and I got fitted to a Regular instead of my legacy set that has stiff (my balls were going way too the right). By moving to Regular I was questioning myself did I make the right decision, this helped close the case! Regular felt better than stiff and that’s why Regular is in my bag now.
Paul P what would it prove? He’d probably be more susceptible to the feel of the shafts which would cause him to hit it all over the face and make the test useless.
Matthew Hall so shafts do make a difference then? The reason the results were all pretty similar is because Rick uses a X. Putting a mid/high handicapper to this test would prove that shafts do in fact make a difference
Ben Robertson they make a difference because different players react to the feel of a club in different ways. There’s absolutely no difference between different flex shafts if they’re swung the same. Even the manufacturers say that.
Matthew Hall you can’t believe that? If swing as hard and fast as I usually do (X Stiff) with a senior shaft I’d either snap the shaft or hit a massive duck hook
Ben Robertson it’s been proven time and again. The only evidence you have is your own. YOU perform differently with different flex shafts. That’s not the Club’s fault. It’s yours.
I played golf in HS and noticed a marked difference in shifting from Regular to Stiff, dropped 10 shots a 9 in a year. Never was a great golfer but low 50 to low 40 was quite a difference. Even began making birdies that year
Yeah, it definitely makes a difference to your average golfer with a slower swing. My brother plays with stiff shafts and if I use them I lose the ball right. As my arthritis has gotten worse and I can't power through the ball it's more exaggerated as well. The opposite is true if he uses my regular or light flex shafts, he whips the ball left.
I have a slightly faster club head speed then Rick and I agree the shaft flex doesn't really have much to do left and right it's more height spin and distance I can't use lighter shafts as I jsut get to much height and spin
Been watching a lot of your videos recently after getting into golf again, been a massive help and now you’ve answered another of my questions, thanks Rick. Great content.
Just a quick story on tour. One player kept on coming to the caravan asking the mizuno rep to change to different shafts. So after watching this I said to the Rep. next time just change the shaft bands. The player had S300 and wanted X100, so he just changed the bands from s to X. Next thing he came back and said that his new shaft were perfect, yet they were the same. All in the mind . Nice test Rick.
So no difference. But why so many options then? Feel for sure. What difference makes weight? Please make a vid comparing the same flex but different weights!
He is not using all available variables. Nor can if be able to, there are to many physic problems that are going on into the equation that change from one person to another. Rick, has a smooth cookie cutting swing that they all been teaching for the last 20 years or so and... pretty much has mastered it. Take the old swings that were effective and quite different, you'll come up with different needs. Palmer, Snead, Nicklaus, Woods, Trevino...etc. Most average people who play golf, can't master cookie cutter swings.... so your are going to have an eklectic need of shafts.
Jon Lanier I highly doubt it would matter to anyone but those with the wildest swings and most of them aren't consistent enough for a different shaft to make a difference. Love to see the test though.
Likely all marketing hyped up BS imho...who would've thought the A flex would come in 2nd longest total distance? I'd have never thought so, until seeing it here!
I have tried a few and ended up liking a stiff steel shaft. I don't care for graphite shafts in any flex and the stiff steel shaft just felt better than a regular flex. I am just an occasional bogey golfer although I have not played at all in the last five years.. I don't practice or play regularly but am wanting to start again as I am retiring next month. I bought a weighted swing stick to try and get back into a good golf swing. I used to slice the ball way too much off of the tee and am working on my swing characteristics trying to get ready for golf play again. Thank you for all of your helpful videos.
I remember when I was 13 and started swinging wayyyyyyyyy to hard for my flex. Everything would just balloon soooooooo high and I had no idea why then I went with my older brother and he’s like man you need new clubs lol
Great video, just what I was looking for. I previously believed that the shaft might have had an effect on my slice, but then I watched your ‘how to fix your slice’ videos, and that’s put that theory to bed! Thanks Rick 🙏
I was amazed at the final results AND, you couldn't tell tell the difference with your swing. Apparently the shot dispersion was a non-factor too. Very interesting video. Keep making these videos. They enlighten your audience greatly.
Very good rewiew 👍 Buy a new driver and get custom fitted 💸 or buy old club with normal shaft and you can still buy greenfees, food, balls, bear and flowers to your girlfriend 🌷😉
Just got back into it after almost 20 yrs of not playing more than a few times per year at best. I'm 68 now and my old Titleist 962 with Dynamic gold S300 shafts were too much work and not very forgiving. I bought an inexspensive set of Ping G20 with stock regular shafts. After hitting 1000 balls i took a lesson and the instructor said he'd put together a club of my choice. I chose a Titleist T200 with a KBS Tour Lite in regular. When able to hit a few in a row close to center he in formed me I was border line between regular or stiff shaft. I did my homework and narrowed down Iron model but jumped the gun and bought a Callaway Mavrik in a Hxrdus T800 shaft 5.5 for $120 from Callaway preowned. Swing was and is still getting better so I went with Takomo 101T Irons in a Kbs Tour Lite stiff. I was going to chuck the Mavrik and get something in a stiff shaft. This Video saved me that move. I can swing and play with anything I have most of it does come down to feel and comfort level. This video changed how i look at flex from now on. 5yr old Vid helped me a lot .Thanks
logan t flex is relative to weight which is why a 50g shaft is much softer than a 75g shaft. Properly fitted shafts are built to a frequency number. Manufacturers stiff varies considerably between them. Hence why building to a frequency is more accurate. It will affect dispersion peak height landing angle spin rate etc...
Matt Leader frequency of shafts is a bit of a sham too. It only measures the butt cpm so just because they are same number the May play entirely different based upon the shaft profile
It's not irrelevant, shafts are stiffer because of the AVERAGE DIAMETER of the shaft, which is why stiff shafts are heavier, but the kick points are different, particularly if the tips are stiffer. Getting the right shaft and flex is key to accuracy (as illustrated in this very video) which is why Professionals like to measure the numbers to fit properly. So Matt - you're wrong.
garry conway what are you blowing? This test didn’t show accuracy at all! Your realize 5 shots is such a small sample size one SMALL misshit or slight path change by a degree could influence the numbers drastically right? The a flex average angle was -1° while the others were all in the + direction, so there was probably 1 A shot he was a bit inside on. You have no clue
You are the best.This is great, mostly because it shows that finally, I was right about something. (Took me over 60 years though.) I'm 80 and can barely break 90 but the only difference I've seen in flex is that lighter ones go more left, and heavier more to the right. AND R flex ones wear me out faster on the range than my L-flex Basara. (Let's not go into what "L" means, ok?) Thanks for agreeing with me!! Love your stuff.
I am a 76 year old American male...my driver is a Taylor made M2 9.5 degree loft head with a stiff flex 58 gram fujikara shaft...my longest drive for 18 holes this past Sunday was a little over 260 yards. Swing speed on my driver between 95 to 98 mph and 85 to 90 mph on my Ping irons. I have tried A and R shafts a couple times over the last few years but I am still more consistent with fiberglass S shafts for all my clubs except for my Taylor Made 5 Rescue which has a regular shaft.
I have used a stiff shaft in all my drivers since I was about a 5 handicap to current about a 12. Swing speed in the mid 90's currently to when I played more often years ago in the the 101 to 103 area. Never felt much difference in X,S,R shafts period in metal woods for over 15 yrs. I did notice a distance gain since the change from steel shafted fairway woods to graphite. Great test! Enjoyed your discussion and suggestion...find one that feels good and stick with it. Don't get caught up in the data!👍
I love how your videos are all about the love of the game and how to not find yourself so involved in ticky-tacky things like shaft flex. Find some clubs that feel good and just go have fun!!
I have a Ping G20 with a senior flex shaft. I hit all kinds of drivers on the range when being fitted and this one performed best for me. I've been using it for almost 3 years now and it is still doing a good job for me, no need to change, if it's not broke don't fix it.
This is one of many things I always want to know. But I am not good enough to test things like this and don’t have access to all of these equipments. Thanks for carrying out another awesome experiment.
Very nice video……..just yesterday I was shopping for fairway woods and tested a regular and stiff shaft……same feel and performance. My swing speed is around 105-8 mph and could not believe that the regular shaft felt better then stiff…..like I said , great video
I’ve been watching a lot of your videos and think they are some of the best out there. One thing I wish when you do these comparisons is have a high handicap player also try them out. I think you are so good you can play with anything and it will work out for you.
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Brilliant review and very very interesting. As you say Rick FEEL is the priority not the stiffness of the shaft.
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Rick Shiels Golf was a regular until my driver fitting today. Now a stiff in a Ping g 400 max, standard length. Mental as I went in thinking I needed a shortened regular shaft.
Stiff Flex
X-stiff tipped one inch
Aldila tour ATX 65 on a stiff flex
Rick Shiels Golf I'm stiff 😜
"don't get bogged down thinking shaft is everything"
-Rick Shiels
You're right man, never forget the balls
Aidan Griffiths I tell my wife this
Hahahah
I read that comment at the exact moment he said that lol
@@thedude1744 Ask her if she wants regular or stiff.
Beat me too it lol
I think what we’ve learned here is, Rick could probably hit a perfectly straight 300 yard drive using a broom.
🤣🤣🤣
not anymore
It would be interesting to see this test carried out by some one with a swing speed of 80/85 mph and then see what the difference would be. As we have seen Rick you can pretty much hit anything
Lord Daniel Hagan Would make even less difference
No flex no distance. Surely the flex makes a huge difference at slow swing speeds!
It probably makes more of a difference if there's a flaw in your swing. A whippy shaft could make bad fade into a worse slice
Lol
Paul H That’s exactly right. Long driving golf champion Kyle, said that he used lower flex shafts for his long drive competition because the flex produces more speed and distance, but reduced accuracy, and accuracy is not the priority in long drive, all you need is one good hit out of 8 tries. When he plays regular golf he uses stiffer shafts for better accuracy.
I'd love to see this test compared to a slower swing speed player under the same conditions. I honestly think a lower swing speed player would struggle to get the stiff and extra stiff off the ground, but your speed is enough to actually flex those shafts.
FWIW- I have an 85mph clubhead speed (moderate tempo) with a driver and just finished a full set fitting using Trackman with multiple different shafts (A,R,S of different makes) in both irons and 'long' clubs (driver, fairways, 3/4 hybrid). Found an A flex shaft that gave me significantly more distance & accuracy, but observed little difference between shafts with the long clubs. Of course my swing feel was different with A-flex vs stiff, but actual distance/accuracy was quite similar. Very surprising to me, but fitter observed I tend to go after my long clubs harder so load the shaft differently.
Thanks Rick! This comparison was super helpful! I have been using a Regular flex since I started playing. I am now almost 75 years old and I have found my swing speed slowing down, plus I have really shorted my back swing to achieve more control and accuracy. I think I have reached the A-flex category. 😀
Just got back into Golf after 20 years and I'm obviously struggling, however, your videos have been an enormous help.
Keep the faith!
Rick...Thanks for this video...I've been struggling with the idea of changing the shaft on my Big Bertha...I hit it just fine with the stiff shaft that I have but my friends tell me I could get more distance if I switched to regular or senior... I'm 71 and after watching this video I'm convinced that it just won't make enough difference to affect my game... "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
The difference between Rick and you are on the polar oppposite. Rick is still able to generate alot of swing speed, which might have little impact on which shaft he uses. While you won't be able to genereate a fast natural swing speed like Rick here. My best bet would be for a slower swing speed, you should get fitted to the A shaft since it might create more bend on your shafts with your slower swing speed.
A great demonstration of different shaft flex's. I believe that each manufacturer have their own flex standards.
Thanks, Rick, very enjoyable to watch your demos: clubs, balls and now shafts.👍
Thanks, you just saved me upgrading to an X-FLEX!
Im getting an X-FLEX today. I think this isn't accurate into a screen. Maybe Im wrong ill know by this evening.
Great video, Rick! One thing I did notice that the R-flex and S-flex have a same weight, with X-flex being the heaviest and A-flex being lightest. Considering the results, I was wondering if the weight, rather than flex, could possibly be a bigger factor in different results.
I have a driver swing speed of 110mph and use a 55g regular shaft. I've hit X stiff most of my life but I tried the regular for a laugh and it felt so nice. It took me a while to get over the ego thing, but eventually I swapped it into my driver. It go's great.
Really interesting.
I've just bought a complete set of Callaway clubs, alright they're twenty years old (X12 irons and Big Bertha Warbird driver, 3 & 5 woods) they cost fifty quid in a charity shop.. Because I'm over fifty and haven't played for twenty years I was slightly concerned about the shafts being rated as stiff.
This has made me a bit more relaxed.
Let's get players with different swing speeds particularly from the low average side tests these shafts to see if there is any difference....
I agree. I would like to see this comparison with a swing speed of 80 mph
You’re the first person to compare the A flex, which I use, along with all the other flexes. Thank you. Makes me feel good.
Helpful video. Thanks.
I’m another one who wants to know how much flex matters for slower speed swing like mine.
And for clubs other than driver.
I’m 74. Love my new Ping G400 driver at 12º with senior flex. My good drives are about 200.
Thought it was the senior flex that was making a big positive difference.
But now I’m thinking it could be adjusting my swing a bit, higher loft, and confidence.
Better distance and usually in the short grass.
Now I’m looking for probably a Cobra F9 or F8 3/4 (bafflers) fairway wood.
And now I’m thinking I can maybe go for either senior (or ladies) or regular flex.
Maybe not much difference between senior and regular flex for my slow swing.
I’m guessing the flex won’t change my 3 wood distance more than a couple yards.
This video is very helpful. I’ll keep researching.
Also I’m encouraged that I probably won’t need to worry about switching to a stiffer flex
when I suddenly get a lot stronger or faster. 😏
Thanks, Rick, great review and confirms a lot of my suspicions about shaft flex. Only thing I noticed was the A-Flex launch angle was a lot lower than the other three which might add a bit of distance, but it also had the highest spin rate.
Great video as always.. The numbers are very similar but the dispersion for the X flex vs the A flex is much better for a swing speed similar to Rick's. You will be straighter and hit more fairways so it is still important to get fitted for the right flex for your speed.
I really thought there would be a much larger difference. I hit regular but I happen to have a driver with a senior flex. Im taking it to the range next week. Im intrigued! Thanks Rick. Im a returning player after not playing for years. Your videos have helped me so much. If only we would have had TH-cam 25 years ago right? Keep em coming friend.
10 beers in and walmart clubs are just as good as callaway / ping etc
Even without beer, if one has fun, it all that counts. Remember: We PAY to play golf, we are not PAID to play golf ! A heck of a difference. People who have never taken a single lesson, never hit practice balls, and do not go to the gym, will never hit 300 yds of the gold markers and will never play ''scratch'' except maybe a few and far apart gifted guys ! Let's get real here !
I have been playing with an A flex ever since I have started, it gives me great distance of between 260-280 and sometimes I even touch 300yards when it goes straight. Other times I am exploring the woods mostly to the right. I just love the twang it has to it. Have thought of changing the shaft to get straighter hits, however I would first like to see if it is going to improve my accuracy. This video gives me certainty that I could keep mine and just work on my swing.
Great video. I particularly like the way you did this taking out any bias you may have gotten from knowing which shaft was which.
Thanks Rick!
Love to see this with a mid- or high handicap player. Great video!
I'm a mid-handicapper and I tested shafts with very similar results as this. Not much difference.
I am a senior golfer and I really appreciate this study I have not found any different than any other shops and I've tried to keep up the good work
Rick, just wanted to say i love your honest open and bold approach to you clips. It has answered many of my question.
Thank you. Great video. I went from a stiff to reg and I’m hitting the driver so good now. What a difference it made for me.
Rick, like your videos but not your conclusion that shaft flex is irrelevant. You should redo this test but without multiple mulligans. Instead of hitting one shot after another with the same shaft, try hitting only one shot with each, which is how golf is played. If you need more data to get a good average, repeat the sequence. On the golf course, many minutes elapse between driver shots. Also, you will find that you can hit the A flex driver the same average distance after 10 or 20 tries, because you make small unconscious adjustments between consecutive shots that poorer players cannot make. You would add 3 shots to your handicap if you played everyday with an A flex driver, because you would miss fairways left and right.
This is now the 2nd Golf Pro video I've seen that tested the shaft flex fit guide and swing feel ratings and ended up surprised. Nick Taylor Golf also did a similar test and shot best with an A flex rated shaft even with his fast 100+ swing speed. This just proves no amount of equipment tech can make as much of a difference as a swing technique improvement can.
Really enjoyed your video about driver shaft flex comparison. Would like to see a comparison of expensive high end shafts to cheaper ones. Is it worth the money for the difference? Keep up the good work.
I'd say No....likely ALL marketing garbage just to suck those $$$ out of peoples pockets! Especially after seeing that A flex came in second for total distance!
@@SurprizedDaily Mmm not ALL the case of you get what you pay for comes into play. Best thing to do is don’t be a sucker.
You answer a question that everyone has but won't ask because real men hit a driver with a stiff shaft. Really enjoyed the analysis and your candid, dry British sense of humor always makes for good watching. Best, Bob
Fantastic test. I've been looking for this test for a while wondering if a different shaft would help me hit straighter. One of your best. Thanks for all you do.
Love to see this comparison with someone my age, almost 70, with a slower swing speed.
I'm 70 and just got new irons (Ping G400s) last fall with R shafts. My Mizuno driver has an R shaft too. I was fitted for all these clubs and like them a lot. Deciding I needed a 5 hybrid, I tried a Ping G400 with an A flex and hit it great (no fitting, I just pulled it out of the pro shop and tried it). Nothing to the left (unless I pulled one of my crappy swings out). Played in a tournament a couple of days after I bought it and was hitting it 180-185 and even backed one up, which I never did with my 5-iron. So I would agree with Rick's assessment that flex may not matter all that much.
@@capndave8474 i am 66 and have shafts in Regular, A- Flex and Ladies flex, all of which I can hit pretty well. My Driver swing speed is 85-90 m.p.h My take on this issue is that you hit a few shots with the club and automatically compensate with aim for that club shaft. I bought two Nike Vapor speed Drivers, one with R flex and one with A- Flex. I found the 45.5 inch A-Flex went a bit high left, so I shortened the shaft to 44.5 inches ( butt cut ) and the high left shots went away. The confusing issue is that there is no standard for shaft flex between different brands, so we are none the wiser when trying to compare shaft flex.
I agree I want someone that is older or someone with a slow swing speed just to see if the A flex helps and fell better to a older guy like us?
@@indychuckluck I'm 54 with several injuries and I recently switched from a 60 gram stiff to a 40 gram soft flex. Not much difference in performance but I do like the feel of the lighter shaft. I feel like I can swing slower but still get some decent distance.
Man! I was really waiting for a video like this since shafts have always been a question for me. Thank you Rick!
😳😳
Well, I never would have thought that the A flex would be nearly identical to the X
Time to re-think things!!
These videos make self taught golf so much better. By far you are my favorite person to watch good job on the videos
Fantastic comparison. Used an A Flex driver today and I thought I was crazy for loving it. Played 9 holes and 6 out of 7 drives were great and 1 wasn't too bad, even managed to save par. Now I know not to worry about it and just enjoy it.
Didn't you argue against this when Crossfield was stating this
Hi Rick. Would love to see more 2 and 3 iron reviews. Or utility driving irons. 😬
As much as I love Rick's tests, I wonder how different clubs might perform for a mid-handicapper vs. for him. I suspect there's a big difference at times.
Exactly ..I commented the same as you 👍
These kinds of reviews are just great Rick. It tells me once again that we golfers often make our choices based on influences from marketing and hyoe rather than feel and actual results. Thumbs up - love it.
What an awesome test, thank you! I'm getting fitted this season for a new driver and been going down the rabbit hole on "what's more important...shaft or club head?" This test was very helpful! Thank you!!
Hmm..
Weird flex but OK
😂
Underrated comment lmao
Wow just wow
Nice...
Fascinating. I’ve been club fitting for 6 months and this explains a lot of what I see. I thought I was going nuts.
sir rick.. get a senior who has a wing of 80mph and a good swing at that and have him do the blind test and I would bet that will make a wold of difference
Mark Crossfield did this with a senior golfer. Same results, it didn't matter. Shaft is mainly about feel.
@Ming K A much lower kick point with a faster swing speed means more "bow" at the bottom and middle of the shaft. Thus the club face delofts more and comes out lower and left.
@@shrimpflea I can both agree and disagree. If the weight of the shaft is the same (i.e 60 to 70 grams) there will be very little difference if any. Shaft weight and torque is for feel. The higher the flex; the lower the torque and vice versa.
However; then we look at the model.
CK Pro has 4 different models. Red; Blue, Orange and White (in ascending order according to MCA test results for launch and spin preferences). If we compare the blue to the white; blue has mid kick and white has high kick. Meaning that the ck white is significantly stiffer in the tip and mid points of the shaft. While at Edwin Watts golf store in my hometown we put it to the test. We gave an older man in his late 50s a blue then a white CK shaft at 86 grams TX flex. He had roughly about 85 swing speed. The blue he managed to get off the ground but it missed well right. The CK white he could hardly get off the ground and it sprayed farther right. He complained that the shaft was too heavy and he couldn't put anything behind it. So we gave him the 60 grams instead with the same flex. He hit them much better than the heavier counterparts; but he still missed right every time; just not as severe as the first ones.
We came to the conclusion that a 60 X flex and an 86 X are 2 completely different flexes from each other. The heavier; the less flex.
@@Recon-cv1fe Makes sense. Thanks for that info.
@Ming K Correct. Attack angle could give a different result. Is it shallow or steep? A more rounded swing would most likely open the face more; while a more upright swing would have it more delofted at the bottom. I'll agree that shaft isn't everything; but with todays technology on graphite shafts, it can make a significant change for some. I'm not bandwagoning or anything; but i consider that if 99% of professional golfers use X flex, it must be for a reason. If the shaft made absolutely no difference; then they would play different flexes. I know you could say it's just a marketing gimmic; but they could still market shafts with A or R flex if that was the case.
Very interesting, I suspected this outcome because I play a mixed bag of Regular shaft for irons and Stiff for everything else. Thank you for showing us the numbers.
Thank for another informative video. Glad to see that I don't need to get bogged down in the Stiff vs Reg for me. I love the feel of my reg shaft on my Ping G410 Plus
When his Freind have him the drivers and smiled that big of a smile, it made my day 0:28
I wonder if that's Nicky Hibbert from PHS in Hindley?
Do this with Rob potter... this results might be different, I use x stiff
Jesse Steffen agreed! Rick, great idea and very interesting result for fast swinger like you, but you really need a part 2 and 3 with an average(95?) and a slow(85?) speed swinger. We would love to see that!
I think a lot of us would like to see that..
Me included.
Just aa I'd like to get a reply to my question how can you rate the Vokey SM 7 excellent then rate the Wilson only ok when they basically had the same numbers on your GC quad
Jesse Steffen good idea that would be interesting .!
My money would be on similar results taking the outliers out of th equation.
The results wouldn't be different.
Love this. Thanks Rick, subscribed!
Thanks Rick. Looking at upgrading to new Callaway Mavriks, driver and irons and was worried about going between stiff and regular flex. You’ve put my mind at ease with whatever I get set up with when I get fitted for these clubs.
I just found this video and it reminded me that I had a couple of Yonex Fairway Woods some years ago (3 and 5) and won a club fitting session. When I went to the fitter he tested the shafts on a device where you clamp the but end and then pull the head back and release it so it vibrates over a sensor. He was able to tell me that, although both shafts were marked 'Standard', the one on the 3 Wood was actually XXStiff - no wonder I hit it out to the right every time! His advice was, find a club that works for you and then buy THAT ONE, not another with the same markings on it as manufacturing tolerences are so wide on off the shelf shafts that the markings are meaningless. It would have been interesting to see you try this vibration test on these shafts and see if they actually fitted their ratings.
Rick, love your videos! I believe, just like some others have mentioned that the results may be quite different with slower swing speed players. They would probably get much more out of the regular and senior flex as they probably can't load the stiff and x-stiff shafts.
What about testing similar shafts with different kick points to see the effects on distance and accuracy?
I remember a time when you would make snide comments about Mark Crossfield's "shaft flex doesn't matter" viewpoint. Now it looks like you've jumped on his wagon of alternative thinking.
Not really, if you pause the video at 6:15 you can see a CLEAR correlation of dispersion getting better the stiffer up the flex you go.
Its also important to remember all golfers are different, angle of attack, swing tempo etc are all factors.
So some golfers would get bigger results than this test.
I had both the ping tour S and X and I definitely got better results with the x flex.
@@Dynamic3DLtd Seriously just look at a club fitting on the TXG channel. Not only do they get different numbers with different flexes, but also much different results between different shafts of the same flex. Shaft is very important to things like launch angle, and spin rate and the flex is crucial for dispersion.
For most amateur golfers, we would like to see the same test with 85mph swing speeds.
I'd watch that !
That's pretty much my speed. 85.
Being a hobbyist club builder with and 60 years of playing experience, I have been wanting that test forever, Thanks
Rick, Thanks very much for making this video. I recently bought a M4 and I got fitted to a Regular instead of my legacy set that has stiff (my balls were going way too the right). By moving to Regular I was questioning myself did I make the right decision, this helped close the case! Regular felt better than stiff and that’s why Regular is in my bag now.
Interesting test. I agree with some others below, use a mid-handicapper to repeat the test.
Paul P what would it prove? He’d probably be more susceptible to the feel of the shafts which would cause him to hit it all over the face and make the test useless.
Matthew Hall so shafts do make a difference then? The reason the results were all pretty similar is because Rick uses a X. Putting a mid/high handicapper to this test would prove that shafts do in fact make a difference
Ben Robertson they make a difference because different players react to the feel of a club in different ways. There’s absolutely no difference between different flex shafts if they’re swung the same. Even the manufacturers say that.
Matthew Hall you can’t believe that? If swing as hard and fast as I usually do (X Stiff) with a senior shaft I’d either snap the shaft or hit a massive duck hook
Ben Robertson it’s been proven time and again. The only evidence you have is your own. YOU perform differently with different flex shafts. That’s not the Club’s fault. It’s yours.
To add validity to this test it should be done with a mid handicap person and a senior. Your swing speed is too high to make a real difference.
I played golf in HS and noticed a marked difference in shifting from Regular to Stiff, dropped 10 shots a 9 in a year. Never was a great golfer but low 50 to low 40 was quite a difference. Even began making birdies that year
Yeah, it definitely makes a difference to your average golfer with a slower swing. My brother plays with stiff shafts and if I use them I lose the ball right. As my arthritis has gotten worse and I can't power through the ball it's more exaggerated as well. The opposite is true if he uses my regular or light flex shafts, he whips the ball left.
I have a slightly faster club head speed then Rick and I agree the shaft flex doesn't really have much to do left and right it's more height spin and distance I can't use lighter shafts as I jsut get to much height and spin
@@CrookedRedBeard says nothing if your statistics with putter and irons changed too. And ten shots less is not only driver shaft difference..
At around the 5 minute mark GOLFWRX became some sort of post apocalyptic no go zone! May it rest in peace lol 😂
Seven Seven right!!?!!
Never underestimate the power of golfers to ignore data because their swing and/or clubs are "different"....lol.
According the WRX. Rick is a hack and everybody can take him to the wood shed lol.
I agree though all the experts on WRX will try to say otherwise
Hi, Rick,
This video is one of the most important you done on you tube!
Shows how little all diffr flex does for our shots!
Been watching a lot of your videos recently after getting into golf again, been a massive help and now you’ve answered another of my questions, thanks Rick. Great content.
I keep telling my the same thing. "Shaft isn't everything."
🤣🤣🤣🤣😎
Amen brother
Shafts improve dispersion more than distance
I would be interested in seeing this done with beginners
Just a quick story on tour. One player kept on coming to the caravan asking the mizuno rep to change to different shafts. So after watching this I said to the Rep. next time just change the shaft bands. The player had S300 and wanted X100, so he just changed the bands from s to X. Next thing he came back and said that his new shaft were perfect, yet they were the same. All in the mind . Nice test Rick.
Excellant video. This makes driver selection so much easier. A buyer gets weighed down with too much advice and less reliant on their own insticts.
So no difference. But why so many options then? Feel for sure. What difference makes weight? Please make a vid comparing the same flex but different weights!
SuperYoda7 More options = more sales. Simple as that.
He is not using all available variables. Nor can if be able to, there are to many physic problems that are going on into the equation that change from one person to another. Rick, has a smooth cookie cutting swing that they all been teaching for the last 20 years or so and... pretty much has mastered it. Take the old swings that were effective and quite different, you'll come up with different needs. Palmer, Snead, Nicklaus, Woods, Trevino...etc. Most average people who play golf, can't master cookie cutter swings.... so your are going to have an eklectic need of shafts.
Jon Lanier I highly doubt it would matter to anyone but those with the wildest swings and most of them aren't consistent enough for a different shaft to make a difference. Love to see the test though.
Stick older used shafts in the equation and the results will be very different.
Can you do this with irons aswell? Using stiff #1KCLUB
You forgot to tell us the recommended swing speeds for the regular and stiff flex.
Alvin Holton II 90 for regular flex 100 for stiff
Likely all marketing hyped up BS imho...who would've thought the A flex would come in 2nd longest total distance? I'd have never thought so, until seeing it here!
I have tried a few and ended up liking a stiff steel shaft. I don't care for graphite shafts in any flex and the stiff steel shaft just felt better than a regular flex. I am just an occasional bogey golfer although I have not played at all in the last five years.. I don't practice or play regularly but am wanting to start again as I am retiring next month. I bought a weighted swing stick to try and get back into a good golf swing. I used to slice the ball way too much off of the tee and am working on my swing characteristics trying to get ready for golf play again. Thank you for all of your helpful videos.
Thanks Rick, you do the best test videos. Also helps you have such a good and consistent swing.
I bet there's a difference if you have a senior swing all of them
I remember when I was 13 and started swinging wayyyyyyyyy to hard for my flex. Everything would just balloon soooooooo high and I had no idea why then I went with my older brother and he’s like man you need new clubs lol
What about someone swinging at 85 mph using a stif shaft? Would that make a difference
Yeah, it wouldn't go as far.
Great video, just what I was looking for. I previously believed that the shaft might have had an effect on my slice, but then I watched your ‘how to fix your slice’ videos, and that’s put that theory to bed! Thanks Rick 🙏
I was amazed at the final results AND, you couldn't tell tell the difference with your swing. Apparently the shot dispersion was a non-factor too. Very interesting video. Keep making these videos. They enlighten your audience greatly.
Lets see the same test with a senior swinging
interesting. I would have expected more left to right dispersion?
Very good rewiew 👍 Buy a new driver and get custom fitted 💸 or buy old club with normal shaft and you can still buy greenfees, food, balls, bear and flowers to your girlfriend 🌷😉
Spot on 😂
Bear?
Firstly flowers, then greenfees
You buy bears?
Just got back into it after almost 20 yrs of not playing more than a few times per year at best. I'm 68 now and my old Titleist 962 with Dynamic gold S300 shafts were too much work and not very forgiving. I bought an inexspensive set of Ping G20 with stock regular shafts. After hitting 1000 balls i took a lesson and the instructor said he'd put together a club of my choice. I chose a Titleist T200 with a KBS Tour Lite in regular. When able to hit a few in a row close to center he in formed me I was border line between regular or stiff shaft. I did my homework and narrowed down Iron model but jumped the gun and bought a Callaway Mavrik in a Hxrdus T800 shaft 5.5 for $120 from Callaway preowned. Swing was and is still getting better so I went with Takomo 101T Irons in a Kbs Tour Lite stiff. I was going to chuck the Mavrik and get something in a stiff shaft. This Video saved me that move. I can swing and play with anything I have most of it does come down to feel and comfort level. This video changed how i look at flex from now on. 5yr old Vid helped me a lot .Thanks
Excellent real world analysis. Bypassed the sales pitch and straight to the facts. Very helpful. Thanks
Rick's message: no matter how stiff the shaft, play with it and enjoy it.
Words to live by. 🍆 👍🏻
As you age those words will have more meaning.
I see what you did there 😏
It's all about tempo 😉
@@joe1071 One swing and out. LOL
Everyone pray for Rick after the manufacturers put a bounty on his head for exposing their secrets
Better yet pray for the fools who doesn’t take manufacturers BS with a big chunk of salt.
😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳.
Well, that means that my very large draws (hooks) might actually be ME, not the shaft!
Great video Rick. It diminishes the questioning thought of the importance of that "correct" shaft. Thanks!
Very interesting test. I have often wondered how much of a performance difference there was in shaft flex. Thank you!
Flex is irrelevant it’s weight that is key.
logan t flex is relative to weight which is why a 50g shaft is much softer than a 75g shaft. Properly fitted shafts are built to a frequency number. Manufacturers stiff varies considerably between them. Hence why building to a frequency is more accurate. It will affect dispersion peak height landing angle spin rate etc...
Matt Leader frequency of shafts is a bit of a sham too. It only measures the butt cpm so just because they are same number the May play entirely different based upon the shaft profile
It's not irrelevant, shafts are stiffer because of the AVERAGE DIAMETER of the shaft, which is why stiff shafts are heavier, but the kick points are different, particularly if the tips are stiffer. Getting the right shaft and flex is key to accuracy (as illustrated in this very video) which is why Professionals like to measure the numbers to fit properly. So Matt - you're wrong.
garry conway said a guy with no clue whatsoever. Ego golfer obviously
garry conway what are you blowing? This test didn’t show accuracy at all! Your realize 5 shots is such a small sample size one SMALL misshit or slight path change by a degree could influence the numbers drastically right? The a flex average angle was -1° while the others were all in the + direction, so there was probably 1 A shot he was a bit inside on. You have no clue
I knew It shaft is just for egos
Yea, just buy off the rack and fitting your clubs don't matter either.
Hackers
You are the best.This is great, mostly because it shows that finally, I was right about something. (Took me over 60 years though.) I'm 80 and can barely break 90 but the only difference I've seen in flex is that lighter ones go more left, and heavier more to the right. AND R flex ones wear me out faster on the range than my L-flex Basara. (Let's not go into what "L" means, ok?) Thanks for agreeing with me!! Love your stuff.
I am a 76 year old American male...my driver is a Taylor made M2 9.5 degree loft head with a stiff flex 58 gram fujikara shaft...my longest drive for 18 holes this past Sunday was a little over 260 yards. Swing speed on my driver between 95 to 98 mph and 85 to 90 mph on my Ping irons. I have tried A and R shafts a couple times over the last few years but I am still more consistent with fiberglass S shafts for all my clubs except for my Taylor Made 5 Rescue which has a regular shaft.
very helpful! this video will make looking for clubs a lot more broad and easier to find rather than just trying to only find regular. Thank you!
I have used a stiff shaft in all my drivers since I was about a 5 handicap to current about a 12. Swing speed in the mid 90's currently to when I played more often years ago in the the 101 to 103 area. Never felt much difference in X,S,R shafts period in metal woods for over 15 yrs. I did notice a distance gain since the change from steel shafted fairway woods to graphite. Great test! Enjoyed your discussion and suggestion...find one that feels good and stick with it. Don't get caught up in the data!👍
I love how your videos are all about the love of the game and how to not find yourself so involved in ticky-tacky things like shaft flex. Find some clubs that feel good and just go have fun!!
I have a Ping G20 with a senior flex shaft. I hit all kinds of drivers on the range when being fitted and this one performed best for me. I've been using it for almost 3 years now and it is still doing a good job for me, no need to change, if it's not broke don't fix it.
Great video Rick. Answers some long standing questions for me. I appreciate your efforts here!
Thanks Rick I watch you all the time you are helpful in my decision making on shafts
This is one of many things I always want to know. But I am not good enough to test things like this and don’t have access to all of these equipments. Thanks for carrying out another awesome experiment.
Very nice video……..just yesterday I was shopping for fairway woods and tested a regular and stiff shaft……same feel and performance. My swing speed is around 105-8 mph and could not believe that the regular shaft felt better then stiff…..like I said , great video
I’ve been watching a lot of your videos and think they are some of the best out there. One thing I wish when you do these comparisons is have a high handicap player also try them out. I think you are so good you can play with anything and it will work out for you.
Brilliant review and very very interesting. As you say Rick FEEL is the priority not the stiffness of the shaft.