SHAFT WEIGHT VS SHAFT FLEX // What's really most important in choosing your next shaft
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2024
- Today, Ian and Mikey test the different effects on your swing from shaft weight and shaft flex by comparing multiple weighted and flex rated shafts and go in depth on the 6 different shaft variations to show which affect Mike's swing the most.
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I played golf for 25 years with 130 gram steel shafts in all 13 culbs. A 70 gram shaft would have felt like a toy. Yes I am very old. First graphite shaft I had in a driver was 90 grams. Worked very well. But the light weight shafts have let me continue to play as a very old man. So i have no complaints.
I’m 48, and am a Club Ho. I’ve hit just about everything on your wall behind you. I’ve ended up gaming a Graphite Design Tour AD XC-4 Stiff. Super stable lightweight shaft. Paired with a TSI3. I absolutely bomb it. I built an HD-5 Stiff, which has a completely different profile, felt better, looked better, but the numbers didn’t show it was better, so I stuck with the XC (which was light years better than my Ventus Red VELOCORE 5S)…
It is amazing how one can play the wrong shaft, get properly fitted and pick up 10 yards with better dispersion. Hence the importance of being properly fit
Yep even ignoring the distance (plus or minus five yards off the tee is going to be meaningless to nearly every player in the real world), the difference of 4-5 yards in dispersion is huge. Could easily translate to two or more additional fairways per round for anyone 15hcp down. In my opinion, for anyone above about 4-5hcp, dispersion is everything. Get that sorted, with a strong short game, and any player can be in single digits. Only then look for adding distance, to start attacking the Par 4s and 5s. That I've seen low handicappers hit single digits on 6,400yd courses with only 5W, 7i, PW, SW, and P has convinced me of this.
I have a PING G425 MAX 10.5 degrees and was gaming the original ALTA CB 55 gram stiff flex. Switched over to the Tensei Orange 65 gram shaft 4 rounds ago and it has been night and day. Idk what it is but my tempo has been tremendously better and been playing these clean butter cuts with it. I’m a conservative swinger and don’t get aggressive with my driver. Swing at about 100-105mph and been hitting consistently over 275 yards with the roll. Hit three 300+ yard drives last 2 rounds.
The other thing you have to consider is, just because it says “5” on the shaft doesn’t mean it’s a 50g. Ventus is a great example. The “6” is 68g. “5” is 58g.
Trial and error is the only way. Hitting back to back can help narrow down what you take to the course for the true acid test.
I play 60g driver shaft but have 55g in fairway and 120g in irons. I do some tinkering to keep my set honest and my confidence up.
Love the effort you guys put in to share test data...
Love the Mikey videos because he hits the ball more like me, 100ish with the driver with a nice little fade.
Love it! Exactly what my experience has been. I swing a Ventus Red TR 7S. Typical SS anywhere from 114-120 mph. Every time I try a lighter shaft I lose the feeling of the club head and my timing is off, dispersion increases. A heavier shaft typically plays stiffer so it's a good idea to drop a flex or half flex when going up in weight. The reduction in SS is offset by better delivery and more mass delivered at impact for a better smash factor. You wouldn't try to drive a framing nail with a finishing hammer.
When I was fitted for my stealth last year, I was shocked at what fit me best. The speeder 45 in stiff which weighs about 51 grams I think. It was the fastest for ball and club speed and the tightest dispersion. Was a little a little higher on spin but I was only a couple of yards shorter. The dispersion difference is what really mattered at that point.
And recently moved to graphite shafts in irons. Went with recoil 95 in the titleist t100’s and blown away with how it’s helped my iron play. I did try other graphite including steel fiber but really loved the softer feel of the recoils.
So I’m in the camp that weight matters more as it translates so much to feel. Great video guys!
I have similar story with KBS C taper lite shaft in stiff for my irons. My swing speed is comparatively low, which would suggest a senior shaft instead . However, the stiff shaft works well for me, possibly because of the light shaft?
It's odd to me when I hear fitters themselves say they hit something better but "mentally" they won't play it. Respectfully, wtf are we doing then?
The ego is a hell of a drug
Because this isn’t even the shaft he’s fit for. It’s just a random. He plays an auto flex shaft. It’s not “ego” lol. And thru a larger sample size I’m sure the lighter shaft is going to yield better net results
Heavier shaft might able to give you a good hit for first couple of holes in your game. You might not able to last whole 18 holes. And if you are playing like 3 to 4 games a week, might not able to swing it properly anymore on the 3rd n 4th game.
If you get worn out playing a shaft 10 grams heavier than normal, you need to reevaluate your fitness. 14 times a round max swinging a driver.
Keep this type of content in rotation. Definitely good stuff👊🏼
YES YES YES YES!!! This video makes me happy! As a man who requires the weight at stiff enough flex I will always value the weight of the shaft because its how I can feel the what club is sorta doing to what its actually doing. Also. Mickey. You studd
Very enlightening and infomative. This processes shows the need to have ones fitting addressed over multiple session; in order to ensure you are getting fitted for the right shaft, in relation to the head (driver, fairway woods, irons, wedges). As Mikey said so well: we are not "robots" thus our performance/efficiency does fall off. In short, trying to do a full bag fitting on a single session should be evaluated.
This is a very good and important test. It also confirms what I have gathered over time from you and other serious channels, that weight is very important.
Please more of this type of content! 😘
Agree 100% that this type test is more important for most of us. SS around 98-100. Good job.
Great work, gents! Very relevant to my current journey. My current driver SS is in the mid 120’s on average and have been testing Ventus TR Black X and a couple of different graphite design shaft to dial in my TSR3 8 degree. Maybe I need to come up to Toronto and see you guys! Really love this type of content and look forward to more of it in the future. Cheers 🙌🙌
If you can find one, the UST Mamiya Elements Platinum should be in the conversation for you. Super stout, but smooth.
I love mine so much I bought a backup.
That's amazing swing speed! Rory averages 121mph and Tour Average is 114mph, you must absolutely bomb it!!
Like the comment a couple above mine, I have a similar swing speed to you and I have the hzrdus smoke green 80 tx in my tsr3. Absolutely love it, super stout but still nice and smooth. I feel like I can rip at it and I’m not going to lose the head
Similar situation myself! Can’t wait to pick up a TSR 3 later this year
Great video guys. Any idea how this relates to iron shaft weight? It seems many fitters want to go light in irons for more speed but I continue to wonder about efficiency, height, dispersion etc. Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
General rule of thumb weight is king, it will throw off timing which will lose you distance through misstrikes and direction changes. Flex will fine tune launch and spin not direction, for example kyle barkshire uses a reg flex shaft in his long drive comp driver so myth about high speed player needing stiff is just wrong. It's all about timing and that is a weight thing
I loves this test. I have been over the last year sometimes wondering if I needed a heavier shaft for timing and control. Currently playing a Kai'li White 6s in a Stealth 2 Plus (current swing speed 108). When struck right I can carry 270 but don't mind losing a few yards or even swing speed for better control and dispersion.
Honestly above spinrate, something that changed on my shaft fitting is the hitting point ! I was constantly hitting heel shots, changed the shaft nothing else in my swing and that spot just went to the center ! didn’t expect that before fitting actually
Its interesting that Ian says "the general consensious is that weight is more important than flex" i would say if i asked people at my club whats flex their drive was maybe 80% would know. if i asked what weight the shaft was i would be suprized is 10% knew. I tinker around in the shed and build my own clubs, i know i'm mostly a S for a driver if i order a shaft, but have never had any Idea whether to choose a 55 65 or 75gr if they were the choices for the S. so just gone middle weight.
Omg I hope this is the video I’ve been waiting for (ball flight/peak height comparison with X100 and KBS Tour ) 😂
RIP I’ll keep waiting
They did just do a video explaining why shafts can change your delivery based on timing and feel but they are not inherently higher or lower launching in profile.
@@lawbinson oh ok interesting thanks. I’ll look for it. I wonder why certain shafts are described as lower launching then?
Playing Ventus Velecore red 5R (58 g) with a ball speed at 138-140 (98-100 mph club speed). These numbers scream stiff shaft. Here's the kicker but when I use a stiff shaft my spin numbers go way down probably due to the firmer tip.
THANK YOU........ THANK YIOU.........THANK YOU........been looking for this kind of vid forever.....!!!!! Thanks Ian...........
Great video. Wish there were more in depth driver/shaft fitting videos with amateur swing speeds.
I like seeing mikey strike, he is more relatable for most of us
I agree for feel, but lighter and stiffer seems to hanks for all the great videos, really enjoy them.
Great Timing! I was just going back through old videos to find videos on shaft weight.
You should do this test again but cover the flex and weight on the shaft with tape and let Mikey guess what shaft is what. That or tell him its x stiff when its regular etc. Curious to see how that pans out!
no
It's nice to see the out to in path with open face ! Just like the averge golfer I really enjoyed this video
Weight makes the difference. Its funny because I was eye balling the same shaft other day Speeder NX Blue 70 as my next shaft.
Do you feel that weight in iron shafts has a similar effect to what we saw here with moving strike point? I’m commonly someone that finds I catch it thin more often than not. Could going into a heavier iron shaft move that strike point up?
Really interesting video! A few years ago, I got a 70g stiff shaft/driver from Facebook marketplace and it was a nightmare. In order to get the club moving with any pace, I was sliding laterally which was causing all sorts of problems re path/angle etc. I had to swing about 3/4 speed to keep it in the fairway but sacrifice distance.
Last year I got fitted into a 50g regular and it’s so much better - more accurate and I can now swing faster (105mph). Could have played a 50g stiff as total distance was about the same, just the carry/descent angle on average was better with the regular)
👍nice feedback. It's the best post I have read so far. (I'm not being sarcastic)
Guess it’s true some people are just different than others. I got fitted recently and averaged an identical swing speed as you over 130 swings. The shaft I hit best was a 70g extra stiff.
This has similar results to my experience. I use a heaby shaft (73 grams) with xx flex and overlength. It slows me down slightly, but makes me very consistent. I hit it the farthest with the least dispersion.
This is how I ended up in an 85g X flex. I just timed it better which lead to better strike and numbers.
I think personally it's relative. I expect anyone trying an autoflex shaft will make gains, strike, speed, etc but the big concern is £cost. At £800 they definitely ain't cheap. So for many of us it's brilliant that we can all fit into a specific shaft weight and flex and this test proves that. I think as normal golfers spending £350 upcharge on the shafts featured we all hit a serious dilemma, performance over affordability.
Great video. Well done. Going heavier really helped me. Ventus Red 7S in paradym.
Awesome video guys. You demonstrate here the importance of tee height. I certainly didn't appreciate that aspect until recently but if tee'd too low I tend to hit it low on the clubface which increase spin. I've been teeing it higher the last couple of weeks and my spin rate has definetly dropped. Far more straighter, knuckleball shots that roll out a long way.
and loo has to work looollloll😊😊l
Very comprehensive investigation and analysis, thank you. But it doesn't really compare shaft weight versus shaft flex as an issue. Is shaft weight more important, I believe so. There is definitely variations to be gained by different flex and different flex points, but shaft weight and overall club weight has far more impact on the golf swing then differences in flex?
Thanks for this. I have a light 50 gram senior shaft 5 wood I absolutely love swinging. I’m a young guy who should “technically” be swinging a stiff shaft
If I could hit the like twice on this video I would. Would love to see more of these types of videos.
Recently went for a fitting for the new t series irons with Titleist. Got fitted last September with Mizuno and went on there swing dna system(have used it before and work perfectly) came out with dg 120 s300, kbs tour 120 stiff and nippon modus 115 s flex. Tried all and went with the modus cause it was giving me the best flight window and spin(from trackmans optimization standpoint) shaft felt good but fitting was indoors. Paired them with the 223 irons. Played alot more golf and the long irons where good, short irons felt to light and i was missing everything left more.
Went to someone new for fitting and came out with a completely different setup. Dg x100 Amt white. T100 3 to pw. Something that i already knew Dynamic gold fits me better and the feeling is just always there. Went AMT just to give the extra bit of help in the long irons cause I hated the feeling of the t200. But i needed more weight and more so a shaft with more torque.
Great video. I would love to see a similar comparison but for iron shafts
Great vid, you nailed with the breakdown and hi-lighted a real topic.
I using the Xcaliber Phoenix 4-TS (48 g uncut) in my driver. Swign weight 6-6.5. My SS is between 113-114 mph. Ball speed 168.2 mph.
In the unlikely event you see this, can you speak to whether weight change is important throughout the bag?
I enjoyed it. I will have to watch again, as I am not sure I fully understood it.
I've tried multiple times to get a lighter shaft to work. Im sitting at 110mph swing speed. I want more from a lighter shaft but i can't time it. So strength training has been my thing now.
I’d love to see a similar video with 3 different swing weights.
great vid as a senior slow swinger avg 85mph its interesting everyone keeps pushing me to lighter but no clue where the club head is
current set up is Paradym X with a ventus 5r feels just right always think about trying an autoflex 405 but its an expensive experiment
would love to see similar test with a slow swing speed Cheers from Norcal
I also have an 85 SS. I was fit with a TSi3 with an AF 405. Played with it for a year and hated it (too wippy). Put in the Mitsubishi 65 S from my Epic Flash and love it! The SW was a little high, so I changed the weight under the slider and now it's perfect! Good luck from SoCal!
Fascinating stuff guys! Keep up the great work... can't wait to make my way up to Canada and get fitted by you
Let’s give Mikey the 70s from this test his auto flex and the new aacra Ian tested 5 shots each and see where it falls
Great test, please do more with Mikey or even a little slower swing speeds that relates to the majority of golfers.
I’ve always wondered the dynamics of weight and flex. Minjee playing a 50r in the Diamana DF always intrigued me. Her ball speed ranges from 145-150mph yet she uses a light weight and flex.
What happens if you go with the lightest shaft and more stiff? I am regularly a stiff player SS 100-104 with driver. Doing test with a 52g PX PXVtour 5.2 6.5
Awesome video boys! Very interesting to see it in real time.
Someone has an Xstiff cold
Covid strikes again
Ian has spoke about his prolonged sinus issues before, feel really bad for him must be frustrating
@@JackkRobertss long hauler
Thanks for doing this video.
Confirms my thoughts for my own game. New to the game within the past couple of years and I've attributed my inconsistent strikes to shaft weight being too low in both my irons and woods, just dont have a good feel of what the club is doing.
My shaft is not very flexible, but it has got some weight and it's thick. It goes so well with my balls that I use it daily. It also helps with my strokes and getting it into some holes. ✌
Go play disc golf you homosexuals.
Ian, I don’t “like” these videos……I LOVE these videos.
Nice shirt Ian, must be Bunker Mentality 👏👏👏
Such high quality content, as always. I would love to see a deep dive into Bounce and Grind, and what’s important to consider as a low/mid/high handicapper
Such good information, love it!
I’ve watched this video 3 or 4 times already and still unsure of the results. Been playing a 60g shaft for awhile and always fought a push fade or push slice. Tried my buddy’s club that had the same shaft that was lighter and in regular instead of stiff and hit the 2 better drives the other day. Also hit my 70g 3 wood much better too off the tee.
Hi there Ian & Mikey,
Great video guys, again I wish there was a fitter in Nova Scotia as thorough as you guys. I'm retired and available
to do your fitting program, just got to be given a date and time! Wonderful, what you guys do for the game!
question. i recently had my stealth 2 plus break on me. my replacement was the qi10 ls. the qi10 ls feels very light in comparison to my previous stealth 2 plus set up. using the exact same shaft just plug and play. is there a difference in head weight? i feel as though i cant feel the head in transition.
Is it important or irrelevant to have all my clubs at the same swingweight?
Great content as always. I tried the AD-DI 6 Stiff a few years ago and it was a waste of $$ The shaft plays crazy soft ( 230 CPM ). I'm playing Ventus Blue Velocore 6 S and it's exceptional.
Hi, what's your SS if you don't mind me asking and what kind of numbers (spin/carry/height) do you get? Considering the Blue or TR Blue myself
@@tonybytheway7543 Average #s Approx. are 98 MPH SS , 90 ' height Carry 247 .
Average swing speed for me is 98 and I love the AD-DI 6S in my driver. Absolutely the best shaft I have hit, automatic fairway finder for me
@@Sportsfanatic7-7 That's great.... !!
You did this with drivers, would it be different with a five iron? Or a pw? ❤
TXG > Club Champion. Will NEVER forget TXG.
I think the the stronger you are, meaning a guy who works out, has limited flexibility, but still some speed, can benefit from a heavier stiffer shaft. (John Rahm).
I just don’t like a light shaft. I work on my balance and flexibility, to compliment the strength. Still, I generate tons of speed with a heavier shaft. Too uncontrolled with a 60g and lower. 70g plus is ideal.
I also look for stiffer tip and butt in an XFlex.
I made frankenshaft from a pulled bubble Xstiff 80g 5:51 shaft. The ball just has to go in the fairway and where I need it to go.
This video is great but very confusing. Mikey's smash factor was best with light and stiff. For many years, the long and light shaft has been the "freaky deaky" of distance, especially with today's lighter heads. So many questions for a follow up! I assume that you didn't change weights in TSR head to keep swing weight constant? How is using a light and stiff shaft with extra weight in the head different from using a heavier shaft? I think a followup would be in order!
Watching this I was kind of doing 2 things at once, so maybe I missed it. It would be nice to see the numbers for Mike's gamer Autoflex shaft and the numbers for the Autoflex Alternative you tested 2 weeks ago relative to what you found here. And I always hit the Like Button !!!
Bottom line still good tempo creates more distance and accuracy IMO
only thing this video needed was Ian doing the hitting
Still love this test . Would love to know how this translates to iron shaft fits
Yes more reviews like this
Great video guys.
So us as consumers should just throw out what shaft we should play based off of swing speed. To me, this shows that a shaft is no more than feel and a timing mechanism
This is pretty bizarre. To me he should be hitting the DI 6X. The efficiency wasn’t as great as others but face angle and path were really good with the most distance. Dispersion was right but very tight. What am I missing??
However this does make me want to try an S400 in my irons rather than the PX6.5 I have though. I used to love my S300 and the PX6.5 I feel like I have no idea where the head is
So if the club-head fits you and the shaft is roughly in the right spot, you need to trust your feel and have a shaft that works well with your timing?
Most data looked fine. The strikepoints where from time to time all over the place but again, you need the right feel and timing.
Ofc we can now be really picky in the data and get the max out of dispersion and shot shapes.
Have some shaft options that will get us in an optimal spin window or will help with the launch angle.
And a good fitter will get you in a really good spot!.
But I still feel this kind of optimization will can come with a pricetag. If I hit 5yards more in total and have only 3/4 of the dispersion thats great. But would I pay $500 more just for the shaft? No.
Love this video for the data for some reason my strikes are better on the heavier shafts but usually plat stiff shafts but speed indicates x. Is this why the modus works well for me heavy but feel?
Great video. Have you done or plan on doing the same for irons? Im always confused as to what is better. I have not been fit like this before.
I always struggle in conversations with folks because they're almost always talking about iron shaft weights that are steel, and I only use graphite for pretty much my entire bag. I'm curious from a fitters perspective how building a club using graphite changes the equation. For example if you're used to a 120g steel, what graphite shaft is going to be similar? Obviously it depends on the model, but I'd like to see the fitting process of getting a steel shaft user fit for graphite.
I’ve always played dynamic gold steel. But I’m really wanting to try some graphite shafts.
Nice to see the figures so close together 😂
Should you have the same shaft on your wedges as your irons? Or is it a different fitting for 54, 58 wedges? Thanks
Can you guys do the same video for iron shaft?
How can we simulate heavier shaft weight for testing? Say we had a 50g shaft. Could we tape 10g to the middle of the shaft to simulate a 60g shaft?
yo!! where did you get that shirt from!? can you put in description, awesome shirt. (Ian)
are the ei profiles consistent irrespective of weight changes? it’s interesting how much the weights changed strike point and makes me wonder whether there are differences in tip stiffness or material placement among the different weight profiles. maybe the shaft companies change the specs within the same line based on the intended golfer for the different weights?
I’m a very good 3 wood player (Titleist ts3 with ventus red 7x) but can struggle with driver from time to time (ping g430 max with graphite design ad ub 6x). I have never had a very positive AOA and usually hover around 0 and actually can be negative. Will get fit, but are there specific heads and lofts you usually look towards for a good 3 wood player?
Mike so much wanna be in the x-stiff category haha, but ends up in senior shaft hahahahaha
I have lighter shafts in one set of irons, and they make the clubs feel handle heavy to me with less awareness of the club head
Ian. great video. What shirt company is that? I love that shirt. Thanks
He pretty much only wears Galvin Green so probably from them
Is there such a thing as a ~70g reg/reg-stiff shaft? I'd be willing to tinker if I could find one.
Currently playing a Ventus black 6S, and feel like I can't lay off w/out losing it.
Mikey.. or anyone with a TSR3- I always struggled with the heel strike so bad the weight in the heel to match that up… For fun I tried to see if strike would move if I moved the weight in the toe. It 100% did. Now I live more in the toe. Not sure this works for everyone but maybe worth a test??? Do some people subconsciously find/follow the CG in the club with their strike.
Toe weight will increase toe droop, which will move a low heel strike towards the center. As long as you can get the face close to square, stick with the toe weight.
I was wondering about something.So a few months ago i was fitted for irons and we didnt really test to many variety of iron heads all 7 irons and only few modules.We ended up with the Titleist T150 with the Nippon Modus 3 120 x stiff.
And my current gamer was the Titleist Ap2 714 irons with the KBS C-Taper Shafts.
So my issue is the long irons in my gamers goes a bit on the low launching side and my short irons are fine.
But was wonder could having different shaft weights and or flex in long,to mid to short irons be a potential solution.
Just wonder because i have never seen on any videos any kind of testing in where you would have different weights and flex as you progress from short to longer irons exc.😅
Confidence in tee height - you can tell me, but I still prize the top of my head! :-)
One thing I have noted have been all the shafts I have been steered towards for woods recently are "stiff tips" ones like the Ascent or the Kai'li. Is this just where things are moving, or is this as important is the balance choice they tend to go along with?
Follow up would be interesting.
Would torque change also be considered?
Good stuff!
Can we get a more in depth fitting of the new apex uw?
Ian , I can see you trying to get Mikey to go heavier, and I think he should. He seems to hit the club sweet spot better, he got one out to 290 ish and straight