Do We Really Experience Time or Space?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.ค. 2024
- You can never experience time or space since they simply do not exist. Rupert explains that in order to experience time, you would have to be able to step out of the now and visit the past or the future. We can think about the past as it appears in thought, however you cannot step out of the now without thinking about it.
There is no time present in which the now can be defined, and that 'now' is awareness. However, time is a valid concept that we all use for practical purposes, but it should not be a belief that it is the nature of reality, since in reality there is no time.
Rupert tells the questioner to be a scientist without preconceived ideas of time and try to experience time without thought. It simply cannot be done.
This clip was taken from one of Rupert's In-Person Retreats in March, 2020.
Timestamps:
00:00 Struggling With The Perception of Time
01:00 Experiencing Time In the Absence of Thought
02:00 Experiencing Time and Thinking About Time
03:38 Experiencing The Now
04:45 You Never Experience Time
06:00 Time Is A Concept
06:50 Evidence Of Time
09:05 Here Is The Place Where I Am
10:25 Time And Space Are A Model Of Reality
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One of the most influential physicists to have ever lived, Albert Einstein, shared this view, writing, "People like us who believe in physics know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion." In other words, time is an illusion.
“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck, physics nobelist & originator of quantum theory
Thank you so much for breaking down for me 💕❤️🔥♥️🤞🏾♌️🤫🩸🇬🇭♿️💙🅿️🅿️🅿️🅿️🟢💙♾️♥️❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥♥️💕🤣🤞🏾🐐🖼️🅿️🖼️🅿️🖼️😁
@@poetsrear Einstein said the only reason he chose to settle at Princeton was so he could have the opportunity to work with Kurt Gödel. There's a story that an astrophysicist was excited to meet Gödel there at a dinner and eager to impress him with the latest discovery from an observatory. After listening to the astronomer's elaborate explanation, Gödel merely replied: 'I don't believe in empirical science... I only believe in a priori truths.'
The mind creates a compelling illusion when noticing the alternation that appears in itself between thinking and stillness. From the frequency of this alternation it derives a sensation of duration, we call time. On realizing that thinking and stillness are one, the mind stops and time vanishes. This too is liberation. (Paul Jordaans)
You are saying, thinking that "I exist" is the same as "I don't exist". Stillness can't be the thinking! That is playing with words!
When people have premonitions or Deja Vu it seems like these experiences are glimpses of how awareness exists outside of time (ie nullifying the beliefs about time). It feels like a type of time travel but it's really just an effect of the Now always being all there is (maybe all nows happening at once?).
Time is a semi-arbitrary conceptualized measure of the duration of an experienced event and the change from one experience to another and is thus, a function of memory. Time speeds up and slows down in relation to feeling better or worse.
Memory = past
Perception = present
Imagination = future
Mind = electro
Heart = magnetic
Will = current
When the intuitive Insight of the Mind inspires the aspiration of the Heart, their union generates the power of the Will to take corresponding action toward fulfillment of the Heart's aspiration, to experience completion of Joy in form.
Every perception is to some extent memory. Every memory is to some extent imagination. Thus, what we experience is our narrative of what happened. Narratives that empower us are preferable.
Is it a limit or a creative guideline? No wrong answer, only different experiences and outcomes; but what a difference!
Every choice we make generates a corresponding timeline of experience. Each moment of the day is 'both' the fruit of yesterday 'and' the seed of tomorrow. Better choices = Better experiences.
Whatever we can learn from any experience, however traumatic it might be, is thereby benefiting us, even if in spite of itself. Thus it is written that Christ learned from the things he suffered.
Existentially, our only real choice is between unconscious compulsive reaction leading to authoritarian centralization of power, involuntary coercion and the fruits of tyranny, or conscious creative response leading to decentralization of power, voluntary collaboration and the fruits of Liberty.
Power = Clarity = Agreement = Collective Synergy = Cosmic Support (synchronicities, serendipities).
Creative Intelligence is omnipresent. We are all It, to an unknowable/inexhaustible extent, as the facets of a Diamond are 'both' distinct from each other 'and' the Diamond itself.
Love is the recognition of our shared Being.
Being For is inherently more sustainable than being against.
Love = For(ce). May the For(ce) be with you!
Namaste'.
Imagination it is not future and future is not imagination.. future is memory also because what you imagine is coming from what you already know and have seen and experienced..
@@harpapmac nothing new is created or invented from memory, only from imagination envisioning a possible future.
@@raycosmic9019 i disagree because to create something new is impossible, everything already exist we just make something "new" by connecting if i may say something we already know.. if we discover something new we may not knew it but it was there all the time we just didn't know.. Krishnamurti says it better
@@harpapmac krishnamurti confessed to being addicted to the limelight.
Every perception is to some extent memory. Every memory is to some extent imagination.
If memory was all, there would be no imagination. We could only experience what we already experienced. There would be no possibility of a change for the better, whereas in Reality change is always either for the better or for the worse. Every choice we make generates a corresponding timeline of experience. Each moment of the day is 'both' the fruit of yesterday 'and' the seed of tomorrow. Choice determines the difference. Is it a limit or a creative guideline? No wrong answer, only different outcomes - but what a difference!
"It" is always here and now: "here" is omnipresent, and "now" is timeless and eternal
There are many documented incidents, the few minutes before their loved ones ie parents, passed away, the time clock in the hospice room, or their watch they are wearing - stopped, they noticed it! The time stops! Very strange!
Yes. Time stops for the person passing away. I have also seen this same phenomenon of the watches and clocks all stopping.
Beautiful. So clear. Thank you!
We are always grounded in the Beingness that we are💕
Amazing explanation! Thank you :)
Beautifully-woven response with a tip of the hat to Mr. Tolle-nice!
Rupert is so calm. I need some of that
“Like a good scientist.”
So true! Thank you!
💙☯️🙏
Even science recognizes after the works of Einstein that time and space are relative I would like to add that anything that is relative is in relation of something that is absolute and this is awareness
I AM (is) always HERE, NOW.
Ultimately, the mind will never die, because it's just a manifestation from consciousness creativity and consciousness never disappear or die...
Thank you dear friend, brother and Master Rupert for your deep inspiration.
Sweet nonsense. Be clear about this. All manifestations come and go. Consciousness also comes and goes. They all come and go in Awareness which is the constant sub stratum and source. The mind is an illusory function of the brain that consists in a self comfirming loop of thoughts and feelings that feed its own illusion. When seen through in liberstion, it is known that it really never existed, like a fata morgana.
I agree, although I think the ego will, the stories we tell ourselves and each other will go as we are nothing but awareness at our core. I get that time is an illusion to some extent but is needed for our lives. I struggle with why it takes me two hours(as measured by a clock sure) to drive to London though. Why would my mind create that artificial space between where I am now and where London is?
The past and future are just mental imagines that we have thoughts about. There really is only the now. Time can be a tool for us to relate with other people-schedules, meetings, and such. But it is just that, don't let it become a burden... "I feel guilty because I didn't make the meeting on time", "I regret not sleeping for eight hours."
"I wasted my life reading TH-cam comments..."
@@thomaserickson568 hahahaha exactly the point
During a car triple rollover many years ago time stopped and I was able to move my locus point of observation anywhere in time/space within the bubble of that accident, much like walking around a 3D hologram that you can play forward and backwards in time. I observed in advance that we’d roll 3 times, and land upright and we did. I could temporarily see and explore the timeline I was in. Other than these near death / out-of-body sort of experiences, I agree with Rupert that time cannot be observed… from the point of view residing within a human body.
It's really simple time is only change caused by movement at the quantum level. That in turn causes change at the cosmic level. No change, no movement, no time.
Awareness is inherently meaningful.❤️🙏
I understand what he is saying and I have long known about it, but I can't help but be sceptical. Sometimes we think we know things, we think they're obvious, and only later we realise, we were wrong. So I am very careful with saying, "this is how it is". The issue I can see is, that the "now" being eternal hinges on the idea that awareness is unchanging/static. But we don't actually know that. We don't really know what it is, we're out of our depth, totally. History is filled with this kind of behaviour, of jumping to conclusions. What I find a bit disagreeable with Rupert is that, well meaning or not, he is leading people to his own conclusions, he asks questions that are encapsulated in assumptions, which when encapsulated in that way, can only really have one answer - and by the person answering it themselves, gives it the illusion of truth to the answers. But the questions may not actually be valid.
I am so skeptical that i’ve planted sunflower seeds and a garden anyways. Appears more fruitful path.
I agree with you. In many of the videos I’ve watched he tries to guide the questioner to come to their own conclusion (his conclusion) and they often fail to do so.
@@nicholasstephens4168 He’s guiding people towards the timeless, the timeless is not his conclusion nor is it his idea. People have trouble arriving there because that’s an unknown place for them.
@@andore8639 I hope that’s the case because the idea really comforts me.
Instead of going ever deeper into trying to understand all this through thoughts and concepts and discussion , or trying to prove anyone wrong - perhaps a short, practical, sure and safe alternative could be for each one of us to explore through personal self-enquiry and experience : " To whom are all these thoughts, ideas and concepts appearing ? in other words - to ask oneself " Who Am I" , or, "What Am I" and then to pay close attention to what happens immediately one asks this - in that split second before the mind brings up the habitual response to such a question. And to keep on doing so without attempting to answer it in words. This consistent, focused self enquiry which strictly eschews all verbalisation and inference results in experiencing reality. All discussion or conceptualisation appears then a clumsy approximation of knowledge or understanding. Just sharing my experience and not a generalised binding on anyone. 🙏
I see that one can't directly observe time as an extended value or even a short interval directly because experience is a singular event occurring now, but one can experience and observe motion, change, decay; birth, development and death. One sees and hears change everywhere. One sees change in everything if one looks and listens closely. It is a repeating comparison of the present experience to what has just passed away. This experience can be directly recorded visually and by audio recordings. These recordings can be replayed and observed again showing the same intervals of change. The same intervals of measured time or space. Why is this not a direct indication of time and space? I guess my question is why does this simple direct demonstration not show that both time and space are part of the natural universe.
They exist, but not as concretely as we believe to be. They are measurements, like the grid marks on an X-Y graph. But those grid marks don’t really exist in reality. Even if they help us measure things. They are only conventionally real.
In the deepest reality, there is only here and now, which is the same thing. It can give birth to the illusion of time and space through the medium of thought and perception.
Edit: same thing with the illusion of self. Yes the self exist, but not concretely as regular pple believe it. This false belief is the cause of many sufferings and psychological stress.
You trace a line on sand, sand changes form, all change is happening in the now, you look at the sand and say that you traced a line in the past, you saying that you traced a line in the past happens in the now, I’m writing this comment in the now, if I re-read my comment I’m re-reading it in the now, there is no place called past, past only exists as a concept in the mind, watching this video of Rupert is taking place in the now.
If you have a thought that you had a thought, that is proof of time exists right? I think the speaker is mumbo jumbo sh..t
As a humorous (and imperfect) analogy: are you familiar with start trek’s holodecks? The visitor to the holodeck is basically in a confined room the entire time, moving within a very limited space. BUT the computer program allows the visitor to travel great distances, climb mountains, see many cultures, travel back in time etc. The computer generated effect is verrrrry real to the mind of the visitor. However, in actual reality, they never left the small room and are moving within a claustrophobically small space. I’m assuming this is what Rupert Spira is explaining about space and time in our “reality”. We actually exist only as a singularity of a sort, but our minds create a whole artificial reality…which feels extremely real.
If I had been in the questioner's position I would have had to answer that I had experienced time because I have experienced 'time consciousness' in the sense Edmund Husserl described it in the The Phenomenology of internal Time Consciousness. Since Husserl's Phenomenological reduction was intended to direct our attention to the phenomena of awareness and I have employed it as a meditative practice, I have to say that I have been able to more fully engage the experience of a meditation chime as as it arises, is present and decays. Husserl argues that we have a double time consciousness, I will say that the more one pays this kind of attention to the passage of time - the more uncanny it gets. So I am very much open to the idea that time in some sense does not exist. I agree that we cannot visit the past or the future and we remain in the present. Yet I also have experienced that sometimes humans, including myself, experience visions of the past and future which is probably not what is meant here as evidence of the existence of time. My sense is that we can travel in time precisely because the past and the future are also present to us in the now.
Maybe you are"traveling" from thought to thought.
NOW is Awareness ? Wow !
Lol!! I love this, makes me laughs because I realize all the "importance" one puts on idea's/thoughts that are really only phantoms. :-)
I am this. And I love you all. 🙏🏼
So simple and penetrating. Thank you!
Time is a measurement of motion references. What can we call a motion? Can we just let's say having a thought and having another thought that we just had thought is a motion? It is a motion, therefore time exists. Of course, you can't go back and forth from now, otherwise, you would get lost, and you would not exist. You can only observe now and be in now. but, in "now" your observation can measure the distant thought or motion references and can count the references from then to now, and that is time. I am a freaking.. genius ! no, not!
The past and future are just our attention on two FORMS of the NOW .
Interesting. Citta/Mind arise, exist, and vanish within a mind moment. We experience only one moment between two hidden moments.
5:38 🤯 THIS!!!
We may not be able to go there, but I think it's important to think of the past. I think it is important to think of the past and the future so we can avoid certain situations, or mistakes that we made. And to think of the future we can imagine our life better. Anyway, that's just one point. I totally listen to you and value everything you say 😂!
If we imagine our life to be better are we destroying the now? What could be better than now?
Yes it is important(fun)to think just don’t let that cover up that which is within you, love.❤️
Does it mean, when we experience "timelessness" in meditation, we were just not thinking?
Watching clouds and seasons pass is my experience of time, I do experience time.
You are experiencing movement.
Movement is real.
Time is merely the conceptual "shadow" of movement.
Oh .. give us how to experinece the stars without the time and space dimention definition pleaaaase
no " time" simply awareness 💗🙏💗
Or no awareness at all
Precisely. And then one step more : Who is it or what is it that becomes aware of Awareness ? Or is it like the eyes which look and see all that is there - but the eye can never see itself !?! 🙏
Time can be experienced as the darkness from which everything arises
How can there be a seeming movement, (for example) on the watch, if there is no time for movements?
Why is there a sense of continuation and correlation with time in the waking state but not in the dream state..my dreams are different every night with no apparent order between events, yet in the waking state there seems to be a clear continuing of my life from day to day which is my reality..why is this so in infinite awareness?
Because in deep sleep there are no thoughts. The sensation of time is derived from the alternstion between thoughts and stillness in the mind. No mind, no time. In Dreams however there are thoughts of the mind and a sensation of time. Mostly distorted because the brain functions differently in Dreams.
Does in this case a place exist, if nobody is there?
The time is now 👍😊
Rupert, I wonder whether an NDE represents an example of “someone” stepping out of the “here and now” and experiencing the dimensionless and timeless presence?
Wahwah AhaAha wonderful Chamatkaric Vishmaypurma thanksgretitude dhanyabad dhanyabadDhanyabadDhanyabad Rupertspira dhanyabadDhanyabadDhanyabad Rupertspira dhanyabadDhanyabadDhanyabad Rupertspira dhanyabadDhanyabadDhanyabad Rupertspira
What about events that happened yesterday and we have results as evidence of time?
Do you have evidence that the events happened in Time?
the opposite is the case: time and space are *nothing but* an experience.
We can believe in the idea that time exists at the moment when humans made huge buildings, But if we were talking about the universe without being separated from it, there would be no time for it really, it just exists
Science is a model of the separate self . That's why it works in OUR reality . At least to some extent. As the separate self moves back to its source the model will also change. Then we may travel to the moon for holidaying!
That there is a present moment makes no sense to me. Seems the future is constantly turned into the past as we travel through space-time and existence is just a brief memory. Instant memories only seem to create opportunities of what the future will possibly bring next as neurons just created the illusion of the now (in the recent past) Yet I so hope this is not the case… just a thought…
My head is falling off
i like her voice
🙏❤️
Just as no object has ever been experienced.
Space and time are just abstractions of the mind.
If there is no time, how do we agree on future time? For instance, my friend and I decide to meet tomorrow at 8. I understand there is no time but there is also time that we can both agree to meet at certain space and location sometime in the future and find each other there.
When you together actually meet - When it is, in future or now?
@@kolarz2128 yeah unfortunately that’s not my question. After some pondering, I think it’s because we share one mind
@@cleopatrajones7096 it is your question :) you both imagine future now which allow you to meet but it all happens now.
@@kolarz2128 These are simplistic answers. There is a future. And there is a past. If it were in my imagination, how is it that my friend and I can agree to meet if it’s all in my head?
@@cleopatrajones7096 lets say we have to meet at 9:30 and it is 9:24. How do we know where we have to be and at what time? Because we can assume how long of clock time it takes to go to some place so that clock time will show up 9:30 but it all is created by our mind. Nonetheless every second of it takes place in the now. 😆 it all takes place not only in your mind but in your friends mind as well, but it all depends on agreeable clock time created for all of humans by a human mind, without it we would not be able to function in this world at all, but it is not a proof of existing future. :)
Experience is always now, you cant experience future, all the change happens in the now. Every step you are taking to be at the place of meeting is taking place now, you can only watch how in now clock time is changing. Please say it is clear for you ;D
The medium of imagination
obviously , yes. we experience SPACE and MOVEMENT.
we conclude that time has passed, since we have memory of past events.
but in reality, we cant experience TIME.
So...there's no time.
Only thoughts of time..
How do discussions like this further society or science outside of being mind games? This recording shows what happened in the past. It's definitely not happening now, proving that there is a past, and if there is a past, there is a future. It's not a mere illusion because it all happened, is not still happening, and won't happen again in the exact way. To say time is an illusion because we don't see it directly would mean that we couldn't believe anything that we only see indirectly- gravity is an illusion, black holes are an illusion, etc. This is one of those conversations that make you feel smart, but just waste your brain power.
How long is forever ? Well ….it’s no time at all !
💞🙏🌺
Past and future is just memory..
👽👽👽👽
❤🙏☯️
Because you are the "time" and "space"
Wait until you realize that you've never experienced silence
What if (analogy): Time as master joined with space as mistress and consciousness was born.. "That" consciousness that shapes and experiences everything, precisely through matter?🤔
And why?? For the love... of the beauty of life
We are That Consciousness !! Eternal children..
I am sorry for my English
Instead of time.
Can we think of autonomy then remove all things that are not autonomous to gain a better understanding of “autonomy”.
If you’re left with a system of thought. Well you might think of it as Spatial awareness. 😇
Pi anyone?
i ask others- when did the past end and the future begin - no answer
Try asking when did the present begin...and when does it end.
@@ZpointG that is more to the point
Time is music.
All i know is after 40…. Time flys.
Look up the works of ken wheeler ( theoria apophasis).does not follow the status quo of main stream science.
So Kant was right
Time is a human construct no doubt, consciousness is indeed fundamental but really is not monistic in nature. The idea that there only exists universal consciousness is false and not provable for all we are ever aware of is our own personal experience. A plurality of minds is what reality constitutes with the greatest being the God of the Judeo-Christian tradition who is a personal being. I strongly disagree with mystical Christianity. It doesn't take seriously the claims of the bible, it chooses the bits it needs to support it's metaphysics and ignores it's more fundamental claims
Mind is not Consciousness.
You pretend to deny a monistic reality yet you seem to adhere to monotheism.(?)
You pretend there is not a "One Consciousness" yet you seem to ascribe to a "One God"(?)
Conflicted much?
@@ZpointG you speak as though monism and monotheism are interchangeable terms, of which they aren't. There exists God the uncreated infinite and many other created minds that are not reducible and are not God
He gets a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong. To deny the existence of the universe is erroneous. You are denying an aspect of consciousness as unreal, when in reality there is nothing except consciousness.
💰😁💸
#@LL# my 💲
says you'll be:
AwArE of being aWaRe
0F:
❕❔❕
⏳WHEN⌛
"it" 💤😴💤
🗝= 🆙
ngl he looks like george bush