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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- My perfumery course: www.perfumerystudent.com/
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creatingperfumes.com/
www.harrisonjoseph.co.uk/
eng.hekserij.nl/
pellwall.com/
www.directpcw.com/en/
shop.perfumersapprentice.com/
www.perfumersworld.com/
www.perfumiarz.com/en/
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I'm sure Sam is aware of this but actually it's not really Iso E Super that's in Molecule 01 but Iso Gamma Super, still a captive material that's similar to Iso E Super but a bit different. Given the difference in isomer percentages I think a mixture of Iso E Super and Sylvamber (maybe 50/50) would be better suited to mimic the effect of Molecule 01.
If you want some extra bite, you could also add Timbersilk to the mix which is by itself a mixture of Iso E Super (but yet another isomers version) + some Amber Xtreme added.
Indeed you raise an excellent point. Maybe I should have said Iso E Super and it’s isomers. I didn’t want to go into isomers in this video since it’s aimed at people who have never tried perfumery before. That said, looking at the isomers like you say would precisely be the second level of enquiry.
@@sammacer wait so which one do i follow if i just want to recreate molecule 01
Yes thank you. Sam is either not aware or misleading people
I've been looking for this exact information after testing out Molecule 01. Thank you so much!
Fantastic, glad I could help!
Fascinating. Thanks, Sam!
Great vid! Super interesting! Makes creating fragrances feel a lot more accessible
Thank you
Great video Sam, Saludos desde Mexico!!
Gracias, Saludos!
Most perfumes are alcohol based. I only use perfume oils or solid perfumes I like it better on my skin. So when I saw oil based imitation perfumes several years ago I bought a whole lot of them I think I must have spent over two thousand dollars on that stuff. This is lasting me for the rest of my life haha. I also made my own combination mixes out of those which smell even more amazing than the designer versions. I agree with you that perfumes are creations of art and that the original perfumer should be regarded as the artist. But many people can't afford to buy a hundred dollar perfume. We live in a world of mega imitations and replications many of those come from Asian countries in general with all kinds of stuff like handbags and clothes as well. My main concern is ethics in the manufacturing process of everything: No testing on animals. No pollution. No toxicity. No animal based products.
Yes ridiculously dupes tend to be less tested on animals which makes them more luxury in my eyes tbh
@@josephhughes1498 Are fragrances tested on animals? That is terrible.
Hey, on the topic of clones, what are your thoughts on recreating discontinued fragrances? If the company no longer makes it for whatever reason, would you still consider cloning (or at least making something inspired by it) a no-no? Thanks.
Macer ate with this one
So, Geza says his Molecule 02 contains 13% of ambroxan, max. after that it tends to crystallize.
My question is..
Does that mean it's 13% raw ambroxan and rest is alcohol in finished product or is it 13% dilution of alc/ambroxan + alcohol which will make it far less in end product?
Great video! Can you, after adding alchoio,l mix iso e super and amboxan?
Nice video, man. The Iso e Super you chose is the comon one or Timbersilk?
Cheers from brazil!
The common one for this video, but when making my own perfumes I prefer timbersilk
@@sammacer thank you so much.do you make a blend with iso e super or just 10% concentration of full timbersilk?
amazing video 🙏🏽
Cheers
Hello Sam
Good afternoon,
About these molecules, I ask, but will these products be the same and will they have the same purity and quality of the products that you get for perfumery amateurs?
I don't know any of these perfumes by Geza Schoen, but I believe that you will never be able to reach the same level as these commercial products.
The Iso E Super, is a relatively cheap and accessible product, will the 4 or 5 €/$ that it costs to make a 100 ml bottle be the same as an original bottle that costs €/$ 120/130?
Molecule 2 uses Ambroxan, but which variety, Firmenich's Ambrox Super, Dl or Cetalox, Symrise's Ambroxide, Givaudan's Ambrofix, or KAO's Ambroxan, others?
I have 4 of these molecules and they have slightly different smells and the permanence on the skin is also different.
The same I say of the other 3 molecules, I do not believe that the products accessible to the public are exactly the same as those used in commercial perfumes.
60 or 70 years ago, when perfumes were not yet created by the great manufacturers of raw materials, I believe that the products they put on sale were pure products, today I think not, at least for some raw materials, and of course, I'm not talking about the "captives, these are exclusive.
Best regards
Well, yes and no. Aside from the captives, for the commercially available products, indeed like you say, different manufacturers will have different processes which yield different levels of purity and isomer distributions, hence different smells for their different trade names. These non captive molecules however should be the same grade as they sell to any other commercial customer. Then beyond that, there may be versions made by third party manufacturers which are less pure still and sold under the same name. This is why buying from a trusted perfumery supplier is recommended, even if it comes at a price.
cool video may try it out. if i bought small bottles of the scents above, would it cost a lot plus the pipettes and other supplies? probably about 50-100?
It's way cheaper than the clones, much less the original Escentric juice.
Thanks - and yeah, probably would cost you 50 to get started but most of the stuff you can re-use in the future. Check out my online store www.lux-terra.co.uk to get an idea for how much supplies cost
@@sammacer Thank you sam, have a nice day
@@sammacer sorry Sam, i have another silly question lol, is there a midrange scale you recommend? id rather pay a little more for something if it is built well and will last longer. any recs?
@@joejojo5966 The one I have is the kern EMB 200-3. I'm also adding a scale to my online store in the near future!
hi sam! i think this is quite out of topic but i got a question, the final result of perfume usually has a strong alcoholic aroma and how do you tone down that kinda smelly scent is maturing/ aging perfume really helpful or probably adding other material as solvent? hope you’ll kindly answer 😁
Well, since perfume is made up with alcohol, it’s always going to smell of alcohol. But if you at more top notes (think citrus), they can effectively mask it
@@sammacer i see, thx for your advice hope it’ll helpful to my experiment 😉
Great video Sam
Im from Pakistan and sadly there is no institution for the perfumery education but I've learnt a lot from your videos.
Thanks a lot
Great bro please make agarwood oil videos
Sadly I don't have any
Hello, I’m new to the perfume world.
Could you give simple definition/examples of raw materials, molecules, essential oils and how are they different?
I’m just confused because all I see is the liquid (perfume) and I’ve been trying to understand what’s the raw materials.
Thank you.
Watch the how to make perfume course on the front page of my channel
Is ISO E Super different from Timbersilk? When I look them up on perfumers websites, they have the exact same chemical formula and CAS#. Can you explain this?
I explain in my video about iso e super, watch that :)
Hi Sam! You know how to encrease the longevity in cashmeran case? It dont last long than one hour
It should last longer than an hour unless you have fake stuff
Molecule 1 is not ISO E super. It is a special version only available to special people. Hence we normal amateurs can’t make it. Same goes for all the other molecules
The special trade name versions can be a little different but they’re still similar
If i use Vetiveryl Acetate for making perfume formula, is 0,9% on total formula or total with alcohol?
How do you feel about recreating perfumes that are out of production?
I think that's seems quite fair
Is it possible to mix hedione with perfumers alcohol to make a molecule 01, 02-like fragrance? If so can u show us?
He recommended this in his ISO E SUPER video. Someone in the comments talked about his hedoine + iso e super mix
Do they need maceration? Someone told me that I need to leave it in a cool and dark place for two weeks before I can use them.
It’s up to you - you should test it to find out since each perfume is different
Yeah I generally use Iso E Super if I'm doing a big Vetiver accord with Vertenex and Vetiveryl Acetate, like if I want a lot of Vetiver in a fragrance in other words. Problem is like running into the 5% rule since it's like a fixative, it's really something to spray on at summer time.
This is super helpful thank you
@@jaycejones1024 yeah cool. That 5% rule used to get me when I was first making fragrance, fixatives are like valcro to your volatile notes. Perfect example is the highway scene on the first Transformers 3 movie (Dark of The Moon), when Sidewipe throws his grappling hooks on one of the decepticons and throws it right back, best example for sure. That's what happens if you go over the 5% rule, has like a smothering affect on the performance of the fragrance.
5% rule?
@@sammacer yeah, of course fixatives
@@adriansumner1412 Meaning, you dhould not use more than 5% from fixatives? Is there like an absolut rule as well?
So I am guessing the longer maceration period the better ?
For some perfumes yes, others no. There’s no general rule.
I did with 16%
Actually, you cannot recreate the exact formula of Molecule 01, as the Molecule used in the Perfume is captive. It contains a much higher amount of g-isomer, so Timbersilk would come closer than Iso-E-Super, but it's not quite there either. Just a random fact I learned a while ago 😂
Yup you can never make the exact stuff as companies like Firmenich they sell perfume houses an upgraded exclusive version of raw materials which are never sold to common suppliers..
Very well said, and of course you are correct. I thought I would omit the discussion of isomers in this video since it’s aimed at someone who’s never touched on perfumery before and I didn’t want to delve into that level of complexity. But yes, the one in this video has a different isomer distribution, with less of the gamma like you say and so will not be exactly the same, although close enough for many purposes.
@@sammacer oh ya, I completely get what you're saying. I didn't want to come off as nosy or whatever, sorry if that came across wrongly. Just wanted to contribute to a nerdy discussion :D ✌🏻
That's a rumor. Literally nothing is confirmed.
@@wrayth3951 it actually is..
I put Ambroxan and Cetalox right on my skin. Will I die?
Thank you
You're welcome
I tried the one with Javanol even at higher percentages. But nothing compares to the real 04 thing.. what am i doing wrong?
I experimented with the same formula using a 5% concentration and found it to be overly potent for those in my vicinity. Despite becoming anosmic to the scent myself, the intensity was overwhelming for others, causing discomfort. After seeking advice on various forums, it seems that a more suitable concentration would be 0.4%. I plan to try this adjusted formula and will update you on the results.
I see. Maybe i'm just anosmic to Javanol. Didn't asked others yet for their opinion.@@PapysHanson
I'm trying to create a perfume base with those molecules mixed together, some sort of "Molecule X" as I call it at the moment. I don't know if someone else have had the same idea, but I really struggle to find a nice balance between the ingredients. In my various attempts I never found something completely wrong or off putting, but seems that I'm far from finding something that I would actually use as a finished base. I'm really interested in knowing your thoughts about that and if you have some advice.
My last attempt was something along these lines:
Ambrofix 100 / Javanol 22 / Vetiveryl Acetate 6 / Iso E Super 600 / Sylvamber 250 / Cashmeran 22.
Haha indeed! The difficulty you're describing is pretty much the entire art of perfumery. Perfumers call your "Molecule X" an "accord."
I've never built fragrances with more than two or three active ingredients (always natural essential oils, but I'm a Ph.D. chemist so have plenty of experience handling synthetics with all kinds of physical properties and chemical sensitivities).
The reason: with two ingredients, you have one parameter or "knob" to turn, so getting it smelling as good as possible is trivially easy. With three ingredients, you have two knobs, and it's already a lot harder but tractable using intuition. With six, you have five knobs! And all five have to be set just so. It gets extremely hard to adequately explore the space of possibilities and find the right one. Mathematicians (these days I do math for a living) call this "the curse of dimensionality." The curse of dimensionality is exactly why perfumery and the perfume industry looks the way it does - high prices, celebrities, influencers, hype machines. Without the curse of dimensionality making it so hard to compare two scents, perfume would be an aesthetic commodity, more like house paint. You'd be able to pick a color and comparison shop on price and performance.
Two recommendations from my years of synthesizing things. First, take advantage of dilution. Keep your raw materials as strong stock solutions that are just diluted enough to handle easily, then add them into a bigger volume of ethanol to tinker with formulations. This makes the formulation math more linear, which will help you. Say you want to double the Javanol. In a concentrate, squirting in twice as much Javanol will change the total volume significantly, making it harder to track the concentrations of all the other things. Putting concentrated raw materials into diluted mixes minimizes this issue.
Second, when adjusting, search logarithmically. Say you smell too much Javanol in your draft. Then cut it to 1/16 the amount and smell again. Get a sense of what that smells like, and if you miss the Javanol, squirt in more to try 1/8, then 1/4, then 1/2 the original amount of Javanol. Then you can fine-tune. This kind of logarithmic search helps you converge faster. It's easy to get stuck undercorrecting when doing chemistry. A lot of things (electrochemical potentials, our senses) tend to be more logarithmic than linear.
@@ramanshah7627 thx for the suggestions, I'm pretty familiar with your reasoning. I always formulate in dilution (following amazing Sam suggestions for a while), the formulation that I've posted is in part per 1000 so it could be replicated with fair precision, since than I'm tweaked it here and there, but it's not so distant from that point. It's some sort of base/accord, true, the name I chosen was just suggested from the fact that is inspired by the single Molecule fragrances from the house. Anyway, I completely agree with you, for now I working on different projects but I hope that someday I will come back to this one. 😅
@@pietronicolafurlan6248 I know the feeling of moving around among projects 😂 enjoy your day!
Could I just use essential oils and mix with alcohol?
+1
Are you for hire? Id like my own cologne recipe that i can make for a personal spray cologne
Ambroxan smells like a huge pile of newspapers to me. Can be quite overwhelming. Use sparingly.
Hahaha
I have made perfume, but it doesn't give citrusy-type boosting at the opening like in wild stone hydra energy perfume etc.
Have you tried adding more citrus?
@@sammacer sorry could you please suggest if bergamot is ok to add more citrus
@@firstreveal1709 Yes
You think I can be a good perfumer without a degree in chemistry? Thanks
Of course! The chemistry isn’t really necessary for alcoholic perfumery. Most of the large companies require it since most of the jobs are for other media like laundry liquid or hand soap
@@sammacer And what do you think I have to do to be perfumer? Study in ISIPCA without chemistry is possible??
Hi bro who do you use in the uk for perfumers alcohol. I used mistral and it smells of chemicals
Yep, that’s the one I used. By chemicals do you mean alcohol? Because all alcohol has a smell
@@sammacer yeah it's got a cleaning product smell to it. Tried mixing it and it Overpowers the frag. Btw who is good for the raw materials to use? Just saw your app is apple only is there any pc or android version? Cheers
Pell Wall is a great place to start, good quality. And yeah unfortunately only apple for the time being…
Cloning is only helping out those who cannot afford such highly priced fragrances. Believe me, anyone with the money would rather pay for the original fragrance rather than a 85% similar “clone”.
For "real" perfumery, I'm totally with you. The thing, though, is that in case of the Escentric Molecules single-compound synthetics, this clone will smell 100% identical.
How many percent of water that can be use for this?
You could use a couple of percent of deionised water if you like, you’d want to experiment
@@sammacer and what the use of water in perfumery, Sam?
Can we replace alcohol with coconut oil or some other carrier ? Okay for skin ?
You can try. But it’s not done in regular perfumery although it’s common in aromatherapy. You’ll have to experiment for yourself.
Thank you
Javanol at 5%? Are you sure?
Great question) in my practice 0,4% more than enough for Mol 04
👌
When you say one molecule you mean one oil?
No, a molecule is a specific chemical made up of several atoms, like Iso E Super or Ambroxan, for example.
Yes, exactly
@@josesaraiva9566 thank you. I’m trying to learn. I was not sure if it was perfumery lingo but it’s what it is ‘ chemistry’ lol I appreciate it
2:28 you said it. Perfumes are rip off prices so why shouldn’t we makes clones ?
Well the single molecule ones are, but not always with regular perfumes; you’re paying for the creativity.
@@sammacer Why would Cartier use the insecticide benzyl benzoate in their perfume formula Declaration, and is it safe ?
Also the odourless Farnesol is used in the former and across the board in many other perfumes. I only use this ingredient in my deodorants.
Tom Ford recently removed the ingredient Lilial from their Oud perfume as it was discovered to harm fertility. Are there any other harmful chemicals we should avoid when making perfumes Sam ?
Apologies for so many questions but your knowledge is expansive, if anyone has the answers I’m sure it’s you.
@@sammacer According to Forbes to produce a 50ml shop bought perfume costs no more than £4.
The mark up on perfume is around 90% so the £4 liquid has to sell at £90, with the bottle being at around £5 we’re actually buying a product for £90 that costs,in total, £9 to manufacture.
Everything else is celebrity endorsements and general advertising.
I don’t want to clone high street perfumes but I don’t mind tinkering with the ingredients just for experimental purposes. I much prefer my own creations.
I’m not a chemist so my creations are more intuitive than scientific. I’ve had great success with my blends.
I do love your knowledge.
@@atmakali9599 these margins aren’t just in perfumery. Shirts, shoes, food, restaurants, phones, and the list goes on. Huge margins and advertising is part of the deal.
Just a note. Most people don't have £200 - £300 -£400 - £500 to spend on a fragrance. Because that's what the prices would be if there were no clones.
It's attitudes like that that makes me turn channels like this off.
Molecule fragrances aside (since they're one molecule), but for regular perfumes: Imagine (like me) you're an artist, you spend months or years perfecting a perfume. Then someone comes and impersonates it with something much cheaper and lower quality which smells similar enough to trick most people when combined with aggressive advertising. The pirates make a big profit selling you something which cost them next to nothing to make wheras you get nothing for all of your hard work composing the perfume.
ISO E Super smells like a soap to me. Ambroxan makes me feel hungry. My nose is weird.
Haha, strange!
Nice bro
Cheers
ich sollte bei reddit fragen wo man die zutaten in DE kriegt
Javanol IFRA limit %40
brazil