Do you even want ABS on your motorcycle?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Are ABS brakes effective on a motorcycle? What are the pros and cons of having ABS? This week we define ABS and look at some reasons for ABS and some reasons why you might not want an ABS system on your motorcycle.
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I bought my first bike with ABS in 2020. I love having it. Wouldn’t want to go back to not having it.
Been riding with ABS for 22 years. It has saved my butt more than once! Another great video Sir.
I have a 900 lb victory vision tour. It's saved my life several times. If I would have locked the tires, I'd be dead or tragically injured by now.
Many lighter bikes not having it is great. On an almost 9 foot long 900 lb bike IT'S A LIFE SAVER ❤
I had a 2012 Triumph Rocket III Touring and it was not equipped with ABS. It was also a 900 Lb bike and the back brake locked the tire so easily that I eventually stopped using it… and every time it locked, the rear of the bike would start sliding to the right, which meant I had to hold the lockup until the bike was completely stopped. I have a 2022 Versys 1000 now and while it’s “only” a 600 Lb bike, the ABS (along with an incredible electronic suspension) makes it almost impossible to crash the bike unless you’re really doing something dumb on it.
ABS imo is the single most important improvement in street bike safety ever. I've been riding since 1967 for what it's worth.
I agree...life saver
@@MCrider Yes sir!
Agreed.
Love ABS, wouldn't buy a street bike without it, but I gotta say the helmet takes the top spot, hands down. It's the only thing that even approaches the seatbelt in cars.
And, not to belabor the point, I might even add quality, professional training and dedicated practice in the #2 slot (such as provided right here on this channel !)
@@irishcurtis1 Helmets are great but ABS is an improvement to the motorcycle whereas a helmet is part of a rider's gear.
I got my first bike in 2020, and I have to say that ABS saved my butt on multiple occasions. It might have added some braking distance in some situations, but it's so much better than going down. The thing is, you won't be going very fast at the end of the braking distance anyway, yet going down is a whole different story.
I have a 20 model road glide and not long after I got it ABS saved my butt when a car in front of me unexpectedly slammed on there brakes to turn left in a downpour I was doing about 60 mph and stopped in what seemed like an unreal short distance and in a straight line too no back tire locking up and sliding around or anything stupid I love it.
The thing that is a safety system implementation that is actually dangerous is linked braking.
It was instituted on many bikes as an attempt to prevent crashes of riders who only use the foot brake.
There are reasons you want to hammer the foot or rear brakes and not touch the front.
I have found myself in a sea of oil and needing to slowdown rapidly while maintaining control.
I managed to get all the way through it with the backend locked up and a foot on the deck dirt track style.
I actually fell over slipping on the oil on my boots after I had slowed to a near stop.
Had the bike been fitted with linked brakes I would have been a hood ornament.
ABS may not have had any effect unless it was the really stupid type that completely turns off the brakes.
Been riding for 50 years and never needed ABS, although I can see it's appeal for new riders.
I just got my first motorcycle, the KTM DUKE 390 2017 which has ABS, I wanted this feature on my first bike. I'm only getting my license in about a month though and am following the course since last week.
The only time my ABS has kicked in while on a sealed road was the time I suffered a puncture while riding on the motorway. It immediately let me know there was an issue.
Do you even want ABS on your motorcycle? yes! because even though i am trained during my drivers lessons (by Dutch standaards) to in different kinds of breaking, but it can always happen that i fail in my skill.
All this is another story when it rains!
ABS only kicks in after I mess up😎 ABS works just fine off-road on modern Adventure bikes. Brett Tkacs did some tests on his channel, check it out.
Yes, ABS is much improved for off-road.
I'm a new rider. I ride a Honda Rebel 500 with ABS. I chose ABS because it seemed safer. I have had many cars with ABS but I can't think of a time it ever kicked in. It was validating to hear you say ABS on a road bike like mine is a good choice. I think your videos are great.
I’ll never own another bike without ABS and shaft drive. Both are amazing.
Grow a pair.
I noticed rider experience levels weren’t mentioned in the study, perfect practice prevents p!$$ poor performance
I am not sure that information would be available in crash data.
Rider experience is just a number. It doesn’t measure rider attitude. For some, experience = skill. For others, experience = complacency. No one is suggesting that ABS or any rider aid is a substitute for acquiring and maintaining good riding skills. “An experienced rider doesn’t need ABS.” sounds like a modern version of, “I had to lay ‘er down.”
@@joej2353 But when you know riders believe ABS is for breaking faster or in shorter distances, you realize they don't privilege skills over mechanical or electronic aids. No one is suggesting ABS is a substitute for skills, but day after day riding shows many rely on a false belief, so in practice effectively substituting skills for an "emergency aid" used to save them from their poor skills or reckless behavior. We need skills, situational awareness, good judgement first, then any mechanical or electronic aid. ABS is, for many, like a bodysuit. But no bodysuit will save them from crashing at 100 mph if in the first place they did not ride with caution, within the limits, anticipating and within the limits of their skills. Seriously.
You appear to be around my age, and if so you grew up with REAL motorcycles, in the days when motorcycles were not loaded with computers. I've always believed that computers belonged on desktops not motor vehicles. I learned to ride off road on a 1966 Bultaco, and my first street bike at age 16 was a 1972 Suzuki GT380 2 stroke triple. I have since been through about 55 bikes, and ridden over a million miles, without a single accident. I have always been a responsible rider, I do not break the speed limit, I do not swerve from lane to lane trying to get ahead. I wouldn't even consider lane splitting. I have never tried to beat a light going through an intersection. I am mostly a long distance rider, but I have a lot of city miles as well. I absolutely WILL NOT ride any motorcycle with any type of computer on it. No ABS, no traction control, and no EFI. All 6 of my bikes are carbureted. Riding a motorcycle in traffic (especially todays traffic) without getting killed requires a great deal of skill. And IMO you should not be riding any motorcycle without that skill. I do not believe in nanny devices that attempt to replace that skill, or eliminate the need for it. No ABS, no traction control or rider modes. No sidestand or clutch cutout switches to prevent you from riding away with the sidestand down or from starting the bike in gear with the clutch engaged. I have disabled all those devices on all my bikes that had them. My first encounter with a sidestand switch is when one failed and left me stranded. I didn't even know the bike has such a thing. When I first started riding street bikes (after 8 years of off road experience) I wrote down several things on a piece of paper, and taped it to the top of the tank. Two of those things were, make sure the sidestand was up, and make sure the bike was either in neutral or the clutch was disengaged before starting the engine. These are such simple things that there is simply no excuse for not knowing them. If you need a nanny switch to prevent you from riding off with the sidestand down or to prevent you from starting the engine with the bike in gear and the clutch engaged, you have no business riding a motorcycle. Junk like this will at best only postpone your getting killed or seriously injured.
I have taken three motor officer courses which have a significant focus on evading, braking and escaping. I have witnessed first hand that SOMETIMES and under perfect conditions, a VERY skilled rider who has practiced multiple times at the same location can stop shorter using threshold braking without ABS than with. However, add any variable, i.e. different surface type( asphalt vs concrete), wet surface, gravel, sand, panic, temperature of surface, different boots and/or gloves---and the list goes on……….ABS stops shorter (and more significantly - without washing out the front tire), every time.
The technology has improved a lot too. It's possible that someone who could out-brake early ABS could not out-brake newer ABS.
That’s a load of Bull. Everything you can achieve with non-ABS you can do with ABS. ABS does nothing until the wheel locks up. A rolling wheel is more effective at braking than a skidding tire. Therefore you can not brake in a shorter distance, the maximum braking threshold is exactly the same. ABS improves over braking, where you would normally lose traction and increase your stopping distance.
When you train braking your goal is not not have ABS kick in while achieving your shortest stopping distance.
Riders either overly rely on ABS and brake too hard or out if fear of ABS activating the don’t brake hard enough. Both conditions will lengthen stopping distance.
The facts are that modern ABS bikes are way better at stopping. Hands down. Arguing otherwise just makes a person look foolish.
The shorter stops during practice is a demonstration of rider skill, not mechanical capabilities.
@@PetrolJunkie It's pretty much a known fact that some riders can outbrake some abs systems in some situations. The first guy stated this while acknowledging that abs is actually better in the vast majority of cases. As far as i can tell, you agreed with him while also calling it bs. Perhaps you should reevaluate who you consider a fool.
@@Lucas12v I have no idea how you managed to get the idea that I agreed with him. I called him out on false statements. Science says a human can not brake any better with or without ABS, it simply is not possible. ABS was not a factor in whether those riders improved their stopping distances, it was rider skill in braking as hard as possible before the tire would skid, or activate ABS, also known as threshold braking.
Multiple experiments under controlled circumstances repeated multiple times in different parts of the world using the best riders and by extension brakers in the world says that is exactly how it works.
They are not out braking ABS. They are actually improving their skills at threshold braking.
@@PetrolJunkie Try an older abs system vs a good rider on gravel or dirt and get back to me. Abs is better in almost every situation but there are exceptions.
ABS is absolutely a necessary! It has personally saved my tail when some jerk cut me off through an intersection when I had a millisecond to react! It keeps the bike from sliding! It is 100% worth it!
Hello Kevin, My bike has ABS and my wife's Harley Tri glide does not. I love it. After working for GM 31 years , I can tell everyone, ABS saves lives. Great video
way better than loud pipe
Hahaha especially your wife has no abs
Does any Harley bikes even come with ABS equipped? I'm genuinely asking
The times ABS has saved me have been in relatively slow-speed situations in traffic where drivers did crazy maneuvers that I wasn't able to predict. I wouldn't have died without ABS in those situations, but I probably would have dropped the bike, which would have been inconvenient, embarrassing, and expensive. ABS is worth it just for those situations alone.
When I see so many instances of riders saying “If I didn’t have ABS, I would have been dead” or similar…I suspect a lot of those riders are hot dogging or not paying attention. I’ve ridden a LOT of miles over a lot of years, and have almost never needed emergency braking. And yes, I do know it and practice frequently. I expect and prepare for the worst all the time. Perhaps I’ve just been lucky, but I’m comfortable saying ABS has never saved my life. And yes, my Wings have had it for several years now. Good talk Kevin. Thanks.
👍🏽
I’ll never ride another bike without ABS.
Grow a pair.
@@Micflare1 😢 Aww. Someone not get enough love from mum? 😅
I wonder if the study Kevin read has controlled for rider mentality. I suspect that riders who choose the ABS option may be more safety conscious. The 22% may be a combination of rider factors as well as technical ones.
I was thinking the same thing.
Unfortunate, because it takes a lot of great motorcycles from even being considered, but it’s 2021 and there are some things that don’t make sense to me on a street bike. ABS is a must. Tubeless tires is another.
More than happy with the ABS on my cruiser.
I know I don't want ABS. Maybe if they only put it on the front wheel. I need to lock up the rear wheel from time to time to do what I want. I like to lock the rear on pavement and slide the rear around. It's also much easier to change the brake fluid with out ABS.
Another pro of ABS is that it's a useful training tool. You can practice hard braking very safely, even on a wet road surface. A lot of people crash because they don't brake hard enough. It's important to get a feel for what maximal braking feels like.
That’s an excellent point.
I second that. Excellent point! 😉👍
Excellent point. I can't say I felt confident practicing emergency braking without ABS. One can start training having ABS kick in a low speed, and when gaining confidence, increase the practice speed to a safe, but still higher speed for more realistic training.
I've been riding so long, there was no ABS for the first 20+ years of my riding, and I had to learn how to emergency stop the bike without locking up the tire(s). ABS would not get in my way as an experienced rider, so I can't see spending the extra money on it. When I am in the market for a new bike, if I have the option to get ABS or not, I will opt not to. If not given a choice, and I like the bike, I won't let having ABS stop me from buying it, either. A reduction of fatal motorcycle accidents by 22% sounds impressive. But I would need to look at the study, the accidents, the experience of each rider, who conducted the study, who paid for it, etc. There are so many variables that could have had an impact on their numbers, thus their findings. I have seen plenty of data that shows the only time that ABS might be worth the money is on wet roads. Considering most inexperienced riders do not even ride in the rain, paying extra for ABS seems like a waste of money to me. I wouldn't spend the extra money for ABS if given a choice, but if the only option was to have ABS on the bike, I wouldn't let that stop me from buying a bike I liked if it had them. It is my personal opinion that all the gadgets they put on motorcycles today makes for poorly trained riders. Instead of needing to actually LEARN how to ride the bike, people can be a sloppy rider and put their trust in the gadgets to correct their mistakes instead of improving riding skills. Sorry for the book.
Once one really understands the physics behind ABS, they will realise that no amount of years of riding experience can outperform this technology, ever. Bikes that are registered for public roads should to be built for maximal safety, for every participant, experienced or not
@@quarq111 I had to study physics at the university while in graduate school. I do understand the physics. I am just not convinced by their data, or how THEY interpret it. I am not opposed, per se, to ABS, just not a supporter. As far as built for safety, sure, but if safety is truly the issue, why do they always seem to charge SO MUCH MONEY for OUR safety? No, I'm not convinced they are a necessary item on a bike. People should learn how to ride the bike properly. Long before ABS, people got in bike accidents, now that they have been on bikes since the 80s, people STILL get in bike accidents, ABS bikes included!!!
We don't have a choice here in the UK. The USA could save lots of deaths if they made abs a legal requirement on new bikes.
I love it on road. No matter how much training you do there's always a time we snatch a brake.
When it comes to ABS on a road bike not having a choice is probably a good thing and can see it going same way here in US in the not so distant future. Driven by both manufacturers and insurance industry etc.
"According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, fatal crashes on a motorcycle are 31 percent lower when motorcycles have ABS. By the same token, the Highway Loss Data Institute reported that accident insurance claims for motorcycles using ABS are filed 20 percent less often than for motorcycles without ABS."
Agree, should just be mandated. An ABS model is typical $500 more than the non-ABS version (here in the US).
Abs, yes.
Option to turn it off, also yes.
My ADV didnt come with an ABS off switch. Almost got me killed in Moab coming into a downhill curve on gravel. Full lock brakes but no stopping.
I agree, you should be able to turn it off when off-road.
The reason why you didn't stop is that you locked up. It's a holdover of bad techniques to lock up your wheels to stop off-road. About the only time where locking up your wheels while braking is actually the best choice is to skid the rear around to make a tighter turn.
Rolling wheels generate more stopping power on any surface.
I would suggest doing some threshold braking drills on flat dirt or gravel.
For reference, I ride an R1250GSA off-road. Most of the time I'm on 70/30 tires and I don't turn off the ABS. I ride the same trails guys with knobbies skidding around with no ABS. I haven't regretted it yet.
The key is to not outride the traction you have. That sounds like what you did.
No, your reply is 100% incorrect. The only time you stop faster with ABS is on clean dry hard surfaces. If you lock your brakes on loose surfaces you will stop considerably shorter, providing you can maintain control. ABS on loose surfaces will not allow you to stop your machine, which is what happened to me. I nearly blew a corner and that would have dropped me of a big axx cliff. Once I pulled my ABS fuse, and could lock the wheels, I could actually speed up and take the corners faster while still being able to stop.
@@derweibhai I ride with ABS on all the time. You are not fooling me, you are fooling yourself. You out-road the traction you had and nearly had a serious accident. Instead of admitting your mistake you're blaming the machine because then you don't have to admit that you made a mistake. I've seen lots of guys do this.
Believe what you want.
Why do all true ADV's have an ABS off switch? If you ride like a 90 year old, sure ABS is ok all the time. Go run the White Rim Trail in Canyonlands and see how well that works for you. All new ADV's can switch to front only ABS for a reason.
I don't have ABS on my 02 Electra Glide. Hell, I don't even have fuel injection on the old girl, She's carbureted, but I love her as she is, and I do practice emergency braking on her in different weather and road conditions from time to time. My GL-1800 does not have ABS either. Many pre-2018 GoldWing's don't have it although its mandatory in Canada. What it does have is Combined Braking System where both brakes (Front and rear) work in tandem by equalizing the brake pressure when the brake pedal or brake lever is deployed. The GL will stop on a dime with or without ABS and I have yet to lock her up. Please note: I am not saying ABS is not worthwhile. It definitely is. I had it on my 2014 Fatboy and loved it. I am just pointing out that I currently do not have it and need to continually hone my skills.
My 2008 VFR800 Interceptor also has DCBS, and I waited almost a year to find one with ABS (was optional then) as well. Well worth the wait, as in almost 50 years of riding, almost all of my spills have been related to changing road surface conditions. Boy, is this bike a great (and safer) ride!
I used to be on the fence about ABS on bikes, but I now believe ABS is a good thing especially for newer riders. Having said that, out of the 9 bikes I own, only one has ABS and that's only because it just happen to have it, I buy all my bikes used.
An interesting variable in a study that compares only machines that are available with or without ABS is that it also compares riders that made a conscious decision to buy the machine with or without ABS. There’s a difference in risk tolerance there that could translate into other riding attitudes like acceptable level of safety gear or aggressive riding on the street. Just a thought…
ABS is like insurance. You only want it when you need it. If the ABS system is kicking in, then you should see what you are doing wrong with your braking technique.
The 'survivor bias' in all the positive responses here should be noted!
All the riders with ABS who got use to it, and just jammed the brakes 'to the floor, to stop fast, and let ABS do its magic
then got into a bad situation, jammed the brakes on, and the ABS failed, locking up both wheels....
are not here to tell you about it.
On my cars that have ABS, I sometimes floor the brake pedal in the snow, just to see the ABS work like its suppose to
but I never ever brake in a way to intentionally activate the ABS - because at that point you are literally just along for the slide
All the bikes in my stable that I've collected since the 80s don't have ABS and I've trained myself to brake as effectively as possible by bike feel, g-forces on my body and the howling from the tires. So if I get a bike with ABS will my training and muscle memory be skewed when I ride that bike and will it alternatively affect how well I brake when jumping back onto one of bikes that doesn't have ABS? As it is I already have problems remembering to cancel my turn signals when on my 2000 Buell or 1972 BMW R75/5 with no auto-cancel features because I'm so used to the auto-cancel feature on my main ride (a '98 XL1200C) or on my winter bike (a 2000 XVS650) so do I really want to hinder the really important riding skills I've mastered over the decades since the days when a motorcycle was just the simplest form of transportation, isn't it best to 'go with what you know'? Also, these days ABS is generally an electronically/computer controlled system. As a software engineer I know the system has the potential to fail without me knowing when I need it. So do I put trust in a system that can fail without my knowledge or do I trust my own cognitive experience which, if it fails, I'm obviously so deep into cognitive decline that I probably should be taken out of the gene pool via a fatal crash anyway? ;)
I have no doubt ABS is a huge benefit and I have one newer bike with it and two older bikes that do not have it. I have not read the study you cite but it may be that on bikes where ABS is an option, the more safety conscious riders opt for it more often and that contributes to them having fewer accidents. In other words the sampling/assigning of ABS vs. non-ABS is not random.
I think you are doubly missing the point. The very people who are less safety concious are the ones who really need ABS as they are the ones more likely to self implode on a bike.
@@johnpd1639 I do not disagree with your statement at all; everyone on street bikes are better off with ABS. My point was one of curiosity regarding the statistical interpretation of the 'magnitude' of the stated effect. Specifically, what proportion of the variance in the data is accounted for by ABS vs. no ABS vs. the proportion of the variance accounted for by possible sampling bias in terms of rider behaviour. An interesting comparison to determine how it all sorts out would be to also have some within group comparisons of highly safety conscious riders on ABS vs. non-ABS and hooligans on each type of bike: in other words have a methodological research design to carry out a two way ANOVA (analysis of variance). Clearly there would be a statistically significant main effect of ABS vs. no ABS. I just think it would be interesting to see if there may also be a statistically significant main effect related to the behaviour of the rider. I think there would be but the question is how much of an effect? I appreciate these are academic questions of curiosity.
@@lylemacdonald6672totally valid point, because the reduction in accidents could be in a large part due to riding more responsibly.
The next motorcycle I purchase will have ABS. I am a firm believer I wouldn't have Titanium in my wrist if my bike had had ABS
Thanks again for your great videos. Key is knowing how to brake well--which requires practice. And the best braking will be at a braking level that is infinitesimally before the wheel locks up. If you go past that, having ABS to protect for that error is much safer than a lockup, slide out, etc. As your great message notes, ABS is protective, but the best way to ride safe is to practice emergency braking without locking up.
This man knows what he's talking about.
False statement. With ABS in panic situation you grab full brake and it will ALWAYS stop in shortest distance under all conditions except maybe those rare instances under 10 mph where loss of control due to rear wheel lift is less of an issue and the stopping difference might be less than 2 feet. It is equally false, laughable, thinking that any human can modulate brakes better than a modern ABS ECU that can perform this function hundreds of times a second.
It is like comparing early chess computers vs Grand Masters who could routinely defeat them 20 years ago. Now the Grand Masters really have no chance. The world has changed in favor of the machines. Time to accept the new reality.
Thanks Kevin! Great info. My two bikes are so old ABS wasn’t invented!
I have had several like that too...just practice that braking. ;)
Never had a Abs fitted bikes. Never needed it. Best to know your bike and your skills level because if you ride recklessly no amount of abs or traction control is going to save you.
Your comment needs a way lot more upvotes. Self-deluded riders believe ABS will save them from their inattention and reckless behaviour.
I always appreciate having the ABS as a backup.. Could of had my beautiful face wiped in a low side kiss the asphalt due to a locked rear brake in a hard corner. Saved by the $2.95 snap on Face shield! 23 stitches in my chin are now a battle scar! Like seat belts, should be standard safety stuff. You're always welcome to unplug or flash it out.
Abs and other traction control equipment saves lives ya want everything on two wheels to help ya and I've been riding for 42 yrs
I agree ABS is a great safety tool esp. on a motorbike, but the rider care, attention and expertise is the best way to avoid accidents.
Been riding 43 years and retired as US VP Engineering/Safety/Quality for BMW. (The FMVSS 101 failure symbol is “ABS” because of my efforts.) Your explanation is excellent and technically very accurate. I would add: ABS endures CONSISTENCY of braking control, and ABS MAXIMIZES braking grip via incipient lock modulation. An expert can only slightly beat ABS only by full lock just at very end of stop. Most riders won’t do this trick. I’ve seen the data and track tests. ABS is a key crash avoidance feature.
How about explaining how modern motorcycle top of the line ABS with IMU modulates front/rear brake application.
I need ONE Question answered:
Do I need to use the rear brake at all with an ABS/IMU control system? If so when?
thanks!!
@@markhall3434 rear brake is used for very low speed no lean cornering, straight line hard acceleration to prevent wheelies, holding park when stopped, entering a corner (sometimes) to get the suspension to squat.
During emergency/panic braking on a BMW with ABS the front brake lever can be squeezed hard because it will activate front and rear brakes, never rear brake alone hard unless you want to slide the rear on dirt etc.
I stop by my dealership, whose back parking lot has a permanently painted MSF course, 2-3 times a week.. I always include hard braking in my practice routine. My stopping distance keeps getting shorter, and my confidence keeps getting higher.
Practicing hard braking is very important. If you ride with a passenger, it's doubly important. Pun intended. Your passenger needs to experience full braking effort so they don't freak out if you need to do an emergency stopping maneuver.
My biggest gripe is that there are two almost mutually exclusive elements in the standard advice given to new/returning riders: you are always told to buy a used bike rather than a new one as your first ride, and you are always told to buy a bike with ABS. However, there aren't a whole lot of older, inexpensive used small to midsized bikes that actually HAVE ABS! It's a bit of an dilemma... damned hard to get both, especially in areas where bikes are less numerous overall.
I feel ya. The ones Im looking at are the XJ6 (ABS was optional until 2015) or the MT07 (more common and most if not all have ABS) . Unfortunately I think the MT07 has a snappy response and too much engine brake. I also prefer the smoothness of 4 cyl. Less likely to lose control if I whiskey throttle it
If I'm coaching a new rider my advice would be to ONLY buy a bike with ABS or not buy one at all until you can afford one. The probability of a newbie getting into accident is many times higher than a more experienced rider. It is the modest cost difference for the right bike vs. Incurring a permanent lifetime disability or loss of life. What is your life and well-being worth? If it's not worth at least $2K greater investment for the right bike then it says something about rational thought vs. impulsive thinking and one's ability to manage the need for instant self-gratification.
This is no longer the 70's, 80's, 90's, early 2000's where lack of cost effective, reliable safety tech was an acceptable standard for the risk of riding a motorcycle. There is now the right alternative and right decision. Why would anyone in this age of advanced, cost-effective, reliable tech tolerate greater risk to their livelihood on the line for some near-term gratification?
When I started riding in early 80's I was admittedly very ignorant about the risks of riding a motorcycle and blinded by infallibility thinking of youth due to lack of life experiences. At the time there was no internet to learn about the realities of motorcycle tradgedies. The industry as a whole has a very poor track record compared to autos driven by the false machismo of many ignorant riders. Even though cars have had mandatory ABS since 2011, motorcycle manufacturers in the entry level models refuse to offer them as standard option in U.S. even though in Europe they are mandated by law. Consider the cost for ABS is an insignificant $300 premium on most models of which you get back a portion during your next upgrade. Value derived for ABS for money paid is best insurance policy you will ever buy.
Kevin, Thank you for your video. I suggest describing what it feels like and sounds like when ABS is engaged. Also, riders should practice emergency braking to the point that ABS kicks in to ensure it is working properly. You point out that there are different manufacturers of ABS, so they may respond differently or be not as reliable as others. It would be a false sense of security to have ABS and it not work when you need it.
The abs will work, but there's a reason he didn't get into what happens, and what he means by it may not work for the situation.
Some modulate extremely different, some are violent, some are different. I don't have linked braking, so I assume the feel of that type of system is the same for both brakes, but I don't know. On my street triple, the front brake quickly but gently pulses when abs is working. The rear brake is much less gentle, but not violently so.
Abs isn't a universal saver. On new bikes with 6 axis imu, it's pretty universal, but most bikes won't have that, so in a corner, abs may allow some loss of traction, or it may prevent it entirely.
Abs isn't universal. There's a ton of different ways to set it up, and on higher end uses, almost as many ways to measure its effectiveness. I couldn't care less about rear abs. Front abs prevents that front tire tuck that kills riders, and I won't own a bike without it.
Having been a major crash investigator for 20+ years... yes ABS is of major benefit.... especially for newer riders..
Grow a pair. If you have abs you’re not a traditional rider.
@@Micflare1 Cant become a traditional rider if you become a dead rider... let the kiddies choose their bikes that allow them to then buy classics without abs when they are more experienced.
My last three motorcycles have had ABS, my first did not. I am a believer of having ABS. That being said, I believe that if you are just starting out, I feel you should start on a motorcycle without it. This way you can learn how to properly brake a motorcycle during normal and emergency situations. Then with that training, you can ride any motorcycle with or without it. When I need to brake heavily, I still brake as though I don't have it. In an emergency situation, where even when training your self to brake without it is not enough, it is nice to have it for that as wells as a changing in conditions you either do not see or cannot adapt in time for.
ABS is helpful in learning appropriate braking skill because it lets you practice progressive braking and what those limits of traction feel like without actually locking them up.
Totally disagree with your statement and it is not supported by real world data. ABS does not hamper your skill development and for inexperienced riders it can be difference between life and death from a typical newbie mistake.
You are also thinking about proper usage of ABS in a wrong way. If you are activating ABS frequently it means you are braking too late or not reducing braking force as wheel speed starts to rapidly decrease. It is like a free braking training aid that doesn't bounce you off the pavement. In a true panic situation with ABS you need to have different instinct to grab full brake as quickly as possible. Modulating brakes as if ABS doesn't exist decreases your initial rate of braking, increases the distance travelled, and results in potentially higher impact speed than necessary when their is no path out. If their is a path out ABS will give you more time to find that path at a much lower controllable speed.
H3ll yeah on the street, not in the early days of ABS though
I agree with all of the positive comments. It is still very important to know how to brake properly. My Wing has combined brakes, I still use both front and back brakes as taught in the basic classes.
Yep. The reason why manufacturers are going to proportional braking is that studies show that in a panic stop most riders only pull the front brake. So if the front brake to also engages the rear by a percentage then they can effectively compensate for rider error. It's still better to learn how to use both brakes because the systems engage the rear brake conservatively, so you never get the full braking potential.
For me ABS is nice to have but a necessity.
Please keep in mind that the 22% is not really an accurate reflection of the situation in the street. It is, in part, a self selecting statistic as those people who opt to buy/ride an abs equipped bike are more likely to safety conscious in the first place.
I’m sure it’s still a safer, but by what percentage isn’t as cut and dried as is being presented.
Valid point. If there was a way to measure the maturity of the rider it could have been included.
Outstanding video today Kevin. I work on my heavy/emergency braking frequently. ABS is not a retrofit system option for me.
Never had it in 35 years now my new bike has it & i hate it so i disabled it
Looks down at Stomach. Yeah, I got Abs in there somewhere 🤣
I’m actually looking forward to my next bike. I currently don’t have abs. It’s fine, I’ve learned to have that “touch” so to speak. The new Harley RDRS system is very appealing to me. As I tour more and more and run into rain and out of it the road surface changes are all over the board. That system really helps overcome the inconsistency of the road surface instead of me having to do it by feel. Great video Kevin. 👍
Big Question. The new yamaha's w/ABS and IMU traction/lift/cornering claims to mix front/rear brakes, but aren't real specific how/what that happens. I can't imagine that you could beat a modern ABS/TC system without risking tire adhesion.
One Question: With the advanced ABS/IMU systems of today, is there any reason to use the rear brake pedal at all? How does this mix work?
Maybe if you're looking to stabilize the bike in some sliding/ice scenario? My big wreck of years ago was locking the rear brake in a hard lean corner, and subconsciously letting up on the front brakes to compensate for the sliding rear (40 ft skid mark on the road edge white line..) Missed the corner, I went low, kissing the asphalt while the bike went end over end off the road. Hard to practice this F/B brake modulation issue to compensate for locked rear. Was easy to lock the rear back in those days. Locked brakes don't always release easily. If I'd had this ABS and only used the front brake (Relying on the ABS to add rear as possible), I would of made that corner.
My last 3 bikes have all had ABS, and it's saved my bacon a couple of times. The 21 Africa Twin I'm riding now has the option to switch it off in the dirt, which is pretty nest. It even has a sensor that knows if I'm in a turn or going uphill, and adjusts the pressure accordingly. Truly remarkable.
I’ve owned 7 street bikes in my life. A Dual sport, a sport bike, an ADV, and 4 cruisers. 5 without ABS and 2 with it. I’ll take the ABS any day. If you’re willing to plunk down $800 on a cool looking Aria helmet with an iridium shield you shouldn’t be complaining about an $800 ABS option.
I like ABS however I have seen several demos by F9 and others that if ABS is activated it will extend braking distance by a lot.. It's best to learn how to brake by not having the ABS kick in in the first place. Finding and being mindful of and using escape paths is a far better choice when braking is doubtful. My Rebel 500 has ABS but my Grom does not.
I just got a zx10r ninja as my first bike
No abs
I tuned it added full m4 exhaust and sprint filter just to make sure it's got enough power. It's 200 stock. Wish me luck lol
don't like it over bumps. You get use to it but don't like it. I'v been riding my 2012 FLHTP. for over 10 years and I still don't like ABS over bumps. The brakes stop working. I would rather not have ABS on my Harley.
Tl:dr YES
And you ll actually be faster with rider aids rather than without you might feel faster without but you will always be objectively faster with (unless you re wired the same as a computer and can make 0.1ms adjustments in ur inputs while riding)
I am in Australia and doing my open class bike license - part of the test here is that you have to do a 50-0kmph emergency stop in 6m without ABS (if it kicks in it is considered an uncontrolled stop and marked as a fail). My '22 Z900 ABS kicks in under those conditions every time so I have pulled the fuses to disable ABS to pass the test. How stupid?
I had a zx7r back around 2001 where after a mechanic screwed up when servicing my bike resulted in the bar end locking the throttle in place while out riding in some twisties. It was a very unique situation and I didn't investigate as to how they screwed up the service or why they were playing with the throttle and bar ends.
There I was with (unknowingly) the throttle stuck open and at the point where I needed to brake. I locked the front because the engine was still pushing, realised I had locked it and recovered the skid and re-attempted the braking. A pretty skilled manoeuvre at the time to get out of a front wheel skid try again. Unfortunately the front locked again and the front washed out and down I went. ABS would likely have saved me from that crash or held me up long enough to go from casual braking to emergency braking which would have had me pull the clutch in.
I'll take ABS over what anyone says.
Another thing that older riders don't understand is that motorcycle ABS is a whole different beast nowadays, compared to junk that it was 20 years ago. For beginners I do suggest selling their cheap old bike and getting something that is 2017 or later, with ABS.
I passed my bike test (UK) in 1974...... never had ANY of this crap on my bike ...except for my Kettles (believe it was called a Water Buffalo over there) when it rained, the brakes didn't work.....why they put power modes, etc, on a tiddler,.. 600c is a tiddler as far as I'm concerned is completely beyond me. More crap to go wrong. For the past 40 years or so, I've worked on cars......... they're the same, FULL OF CRAP THAT COSTS A FORTUNE TO FIX!! Make bikes that people want, FFS! Stay safe.
ABS can only do one thing. Stop you straighter, not faster.
I haven't fully wrapped my brain around it yet because it was developed for wheels on the same axis to stop a car or airplane strait, but I haven't felt mine trigger yet after 300 miles so I don't yet know how it feels. Triggered traction control a couple of times but not ABS. My book still open on it but very hard to disregard the stats. It clearly reduces risk in general. Not a nuisance if I've never triggered it. I can turn it off on my bike but you have do it every time you start it. No need.
The problem i see is
Why do we need to learn the right way to ride a bike? It has all the nannies to save us
Braking technique is no different ABS or not...so learn the correct way and you are good on any motorcycle.
And extremely expensive when the unit malfunctions. 2018 Indian Roadmaster, $1200-$1500 repair cost. No it’s not under warranty, it expired back in May.
I'll take abs. Just got an 18 xsr 700, happy it has it. ABS is basically a failsafe system to save your butt when you mess up or road changes while braking.
I've been riding motorcycles for 10 years, I got in my first accident two months ago because my bike did not have ABS brakes. A car pulled in front of me as I was riding by, looks like they were not going to stop, so I panic braked and my rear wheel locked which threw me from the bike. I didn't have any broken bones, but my hand is sprained pretty bad and still sprained, and my bike was damaged. I am unsure if I'm going to continue riding, but if I do, I'm going to sell my current bike and purchase one with abs.
I ride a slightly trail-biased Tiger 1200 adv. It has 6 IMU ABS, but I can turn the ABS off in Trail plus mode, so I can slide the rear on braking or goosing if I want. The data is clear. Think about cars - would you buy a new to you family car without ABS to haul your family? Today?
Am I understanding this correctly? Of 100 riders with ABS, 22 lived and 78 died?…where as without ABS 100 riders died?
Every bike I’ve owned since I bought a Honda ST1100 in 1991 has had ABS except for a street-plated Beta Enduro 250, a bike which is obviously biased toward soft surfaces. I’m completely positive about ABS, and could bore you with my personal war stories of the times it has kept me from falling down. However, I am a little bit uneasy about the methodology of the study. It may not be the case that the populations of the riders who purchased the ABS and non-ABS versions are strictly equivalent. Price is an issue, as Kevin mentioned, and a buyer who is stretched to their limit may choose the non-ABS version for that reason. Since financial power is linked to age, in general, and rider experience may also be, and general maturity certainly is, it may be that those attributes of the two groups of riders might be enough to explain a difference in accident and mortality rates. That being said, if you’re buying a new bike, and are stretching your finances, I very much advise that you borrow a little more and get the ABS version.
If cars are an early indicator, mainstream Motorcycles are about to get very boring and- dare I say it- politically correct. Although I do agree with fuel injection, ABS and traction control, Manufacturers have also given us dull exhaust systems, choked engines, ridiculous gearing (meant to keep RPM's down) and all sorts of trinkets and gadgets to help turn your beast of a motorcycle into a polite iphone with wheels. Things really started to go downhill once they started installing catalytic converters on bikes. All my bikes pre MY 2010 ish had character and personality. All my bikes since then are, well, underwhelming to say the least.
Thanks for this video I'm looking to buy new 2022 cbr600rr but they have them with abs or without so I didn't really know which one because with abs is 1000 more but sounds like it's worth the 1000. I was considering getting the 500rr but everyone says I'll be wanting a 600rr by next summer so think imma just get 600
Yes, Yes, and more Yes, Machines are superior to humans in any specific task, and a ABS system can 100% out brake ANY human.- Specific to motorcycles - there is an huge exception to my statement where locking and skidding tires, is a important part of the ride. I.E. Off road and dirt riding.
I had a bad experience with ABS on my BMW R1200R! I came up to a sharp left turn and was going slow because I expected the turn. I didn't expect that the wet black top would be completely covered with wet leaves. I have over 50 years of experience and knew not to use the front brake but didn't expect to not have a rear brake. With the ABS activitvated I had no rear brakes and went straight into the ditch!
There are more cons that are not mentioned in this video, especially if the ABS is simple Hall effect two channel ABS and/or has anti stoppie tech, but the most recent 6 axis IMU top flight ABS reduces the downsides.
I have ABS and wouldn't want a bike without it. The study however, may have one in built prejudice that Kevin brought up, but didn't include. Since only bikes with the ABS option were involved in the study, one has to wonder who was buying each bike. Given, as Kevin said, ABS adds to cost and makes an otherwise comparable bike more expensive, it is likely wealthier, probably meaning older and more experience riders, we more likely to buy the ABS equipped bikes. And that experience shows up in avoiding accidents altogether and of course, accidents nearly missed and that never happen, never show up as statistics. But statistics aside, if ABS saves ME from one accident, its well worth the cost.
I dont like abs got it on my 22 cbr 1000rr and twice now car came over hit the brakes i couldn't stop had to shot between the middle and lane spilt go to get on the brakes like your supposed to abs feels like you get brake fade and cant stop like you need to
A lot of people like to think that they could compete with Rossi but the truth of the matter is, that the vast majority of us are nowhere near good enough to, on average, brake better without ABS than with (check out L N's comment below!). Fewer and fewer cars are available with a manual gearbox every year; it'll be the same for bikes with/out ABS as more countries mandate ABS on all new bikes, like the EU. Soon the cost will be hidden on most bikes since they'll only be available with ABS; again; like the EU.
I only street ride.
With ABS you can fully clamp on the brakes and THEN try to miss whats causing your issue
I really like ABS It WORKS
ABS-yes
Multiple tech features-Absolutely Not.
Learn to ride the bike & stop relying on stuff that’s likely going to fail. Then WTH ya gonna do??
My son was going to buy himself a motorcycle last spring, and he did not have enough money to purchase a new model. I wanted him to have ABS with no exception, so I bought him a new SV650 with ABS. Anyone who says they don't need ABS because they brake better manually is a fool, no matter how long you have been riding.
Agree 100%. Riding dirt and road 40 odd years. Cars with abs show the capability. Stomp on the brakes and the car stops. Simple as that. No technique required.
I'm going to buy my first bike next year when I turn 16, I'm getting a kawasaki ninja 400 as from what I hear is a great first bike. I really don't know if I want to spend the extra 300 for abs or not. Hopefully this video teaches me yes or no
I have never had a bike with ABS, or any other 'aid' and I'm sure they are great, But I do feel that technology can fool riders into thinking they are more skilled than they actually are, and the more things to go wrong and leave you stranded!
ABS did not help me out on my crash 6 years ago. Here’s why I picked up a piece of tire between the front tire and fender. The bike had ABS wasn’t speeding, didn’t anticipate the truck in front straddling the debris. So give yourself plenty of room to make a move.
Abs is a great tool to have on a bike, but I think that it is kind of counter intuitive for riders, because unless you can turn it off and practice emergency braking skills, you will never learn proper braking techniques. You learn to rely on these systems... what happens when you're on a bike without them? Or if they fail?
ABS yes, cost is no longer an issue. In Europe (where I am ) all bikes are required to have ABS from factory and the cost is not an issue.
Security goes first and ABS increases security a lot.
I agree in certain conditions (off road mainly) ABS might perform poorer but for the 99.9% of the use it is a life saving option. Some riders say they can outperform ABS, that can be true in a circuit by professionals but on the street I doubt it. In case of a panic or emergency brake I doubt that unless you are a real pro you can outperform ABS.
Most people get it to hedge their bets in an emergency situation when troubles arise while riding. May use it as a crutch to relieve themselves of the responsibility of taking time in keeping their skill set finely tuned, after all they are on the bike during the season, which for same is brief. I know why ABS was first invented, what the early systems were like, and how its changed how we ride somewhat. somewhat. I'm not voicing any opinion on the subject, as if you find it beneficial just get. The greatest advantage being you'll have some small element of confidence, and panic less should the need arise. Do your homework when buying a bike that has it though. Some older machines have far better braking aides than new more advanced bikes made decades later. Finally insurance prefers you have it, and it will reduce your premiums a little.
What happens when the ABS engages while the bike is leaned over during heavy cornering ? Such as might happen in a panic stop.
Is the answer different between the cases of rear wheel only, front wheel only, and both wheels simultaneously ?
I would rather find out the answer to this question from someone else's experience that my own.
Existe la creencia en muchos de que el ABS es para frenar más rápido o en menor distancia. Sin embargo, el ABS tiene como función principal el que los neumáticos no pierdan tracción, no el frenar más rápido ni en menos distancia.
De lo anterior, se puede desprender lo siguiente:
- Que la creencia errónea que el ABS sirve para frenar más rápido o en menor distancia hace que muchos motociclistas se confíen en un sistema que no fue diseñado para lo que creen y por lo tanto o circulen más desenfadada o temerariamente o no presten la debida atención a su situación actual, recurriendo en ambos casos a su aplicación de emergencia y, al ser socorridos por ese sistema, clamar que sí funciona y que es necesario, es decir, un sesgo psicológico retroalimentado.
- Que el ABS no puede ni debe suplir las decisiones o incluso las deficiencias en habilidad. Respecto de las decisiones, existe el caso documentado de que el ABS frena en mucho más distancia en superficies de poca adherencia, como lo es la grava, precisamente porque es un sistema que impide la pérdida de tracción, por lo que debe tener la posibilidad de ser desactivado en todo momento. En lo tocante a las habilidades, es posible no desarrollarlas si en todo momento se cuenta con asistencias mecánicas y electrónicas, propiciando justo el tema de la desatención y el confiarse de más. Es como fomentar la holgazanería y el desconocimiento de temas como la física, dinámica y geometría de las motocicletas.
Algo mejor que el ABS es anticiparse a las situaciones, generar estrategias de conducción y desarrollar las habilidades, como la frenada de emergencia, al tiempo que circular con precaución.
A este paso, con tantas asistencias mecánicas y electrónicas, las motocicletas algún día se venderán con chófer incluido.
This is my first bike with ABS i really don't have to have it I wish I was able to turn it off
Why do you want to turn it off?
@@MCrider been riding for a while without abs used to not having it
Over the pond, all bikes over 125cc have to have ABS fitted since the regulations came into force.