I didn't forget him per se, but I felt the whole event that brought him to that point was forced or weakly written, so I can't fault anyone for him fading from memory real quick. Lol
AoA Abyss was awesome! It wasn't until everyone learned who Kurt's father was that his extended family was revealed. Nils Styger aka Abyss; Marcus Skarr aka Kiwi Black.
@@davids2427same thought. Both Cannonball and Dazzler have/had abilities to bring themselves back, but right when Mutant Resurrection became a thing so many characters seem to have "forgotten" they can come back on their own, or that they're more durable than they're being portrayed and could survive worse (looking at you Wolverine).
@@bajansamurai If I remember right, Nightcrawler also has this "ability" and it was forgotten about too : He became magically immortal/immune to death by sacrificing his soul (permanently) and has been unable to access Heaven after coming back to life in 2014. (In short, giving up his soul resurrected him and he made this sacrifice knowingly and willingly to his Bamfs.) Ever since HoX/PoX tho, he has been shown to not only be able to go through the resurrection process now (which shouldn't be needed due to his condition), he has a soul and can access the mutant Afterlife... Yet he still apparently went through that aforementioned first death, mentions losing his soul while not knowing what a Bamf is (period) and is currently using the same soul he previously permanently lost ? It seems the editors were on strike before the strike for Nightcrawler, Dazzler and Cannonball.
@@spinningtornado4543 lol. Yup re:The Striking Editors. That said, I believe that in some cases, they consciously revised canon to allow for certain story beats to apply. Some of it based on the universe resetting in the last Secret Wars, the rest based on the idea that most of those things we know from X-history occurred in one of Moira's lives, but then repeated again with slightly to massively different outcomes in others. For example, it is probably meant to be that Nightcrawler still died, got resurrected in a similar process, but either didn't have to trade off his soul or regained it (offscreen). I'm not clear on if giving up his soul to resurrect resulted in him being immune to death entirely though, just that it was an act of giving up heaven that kept him from reentering (which mean consignment to a different afterlife or below place). I can see that revision being "requested" because it looks like they had a plan in place to put Kurt through the ringer. With Cannonball and Dazzler, they should have kept those things intact though (Cannonball's External status at least - Dazzler's ability didn't really get explained).
@@bajansamurai I see what you mean but I guess my main point here is that an entire arc and character exploration, brought up as far as 2018 (even 2020 so post Secret Wars) for Nightcrawler has been nullified, rendered meaningless and very much filled with plotholes. As for the soul deal, it gave Nightcrawler super efficient regeneration and immunity to death as the soul was traded for a body with these properties : It was the only way him coming back to life would matter on the long run. He could not go to any Afterlife actually, not Heaven or Hell.
I appreciate this video, because unfortunately, I'm a huge Ben Reilly fan. Have been since the beginning, and any chance of righting his ship remotely, I'm here for. Glad he didn't take in with Mutant-Demon-Nazis.
Great video! I have not loved Chasm, I am not sure if I missed some of his story or something or if its just Ben is made again. You know I want the Kane/Scarlet Spider back in the spotlight!
Blerd I figured it out at least I think I got it, it just hit me looking at the depictions of Penance and Emplate I think maybe have a mixture of Azazel in them or demon, they also resemble Blackheart the tendril like hair similar power set.
X-Men comics haven't been that consistent in their lore, character designs and powersets for awhile now. I recall distinctly that an enormous coloring issue similar to this happened to Exodus through Krakoa : He basically changed colors from one panel to another within the same issue. You also had Destiny constantly changing hair color from pure black, to brown to light brown without any explanation being given to it. I guess they just don't care ?
Is this Abyss similar to the Abyss from AoA?? Also, we gotta remember that Spider-Man might want some getback on Orchis for them kidnapping Mary Jane before the 2022 Hellfire Gala.
Yup. Same Abyss (more specifically the 616 version). As for the MJ thing, I almost forgot about that and I feel the Spidey and X Offices completely did. 😅
Hated how marvel throw chasm aka Ben Reilly under the bus I am worry that chasm may have to watch his back after he erased Eddie Brock memory And it turn him into bedlam the king in black And been a king in black let’s just say Ben could be in trouble.
After all he's done lately he's got it coming big time and yes you could Argue he. Is not himself but what was the excuse when he took over as the Jackle ? With all that Nobody dies Clap trap When he he was getting served by Kain I couldn't help but think FINALLY someone is holding him accountable for at least some of the Bad things he's been caught doing and it pains me to have this opinion because I've always loved the character but seeing what he's becoming .....I dunno I truly want Ben to have a redemption arch to see him fight the good fight to be the hero ...he's always should have been Same for Kain ...sorry for the spider -rant 🕷
I'm a Havok fan. I kinda just follow him, hence me reading this. Do you/anyone think Havok will play a substantial enough roll for me to bother picking it up?
There's only one issue left for this mini sadly and Havok hasn't been that great or gotten his time to shine due to how big the cast is. If it turns out things get better for him, I'll tell you.
I don't think Havok is dead. I think she got too him right before he died but whatever spell she is using is not holding him together very well. If he were dead and brought him back she would've done it for Angel or some of the Morlocks. I really think she caught Havok at the brink of death.
I mean we technically still have a Scarlet Spider in Kaine, but yes I agree Ben has been Marvels punching bag for too long and deserves to be brought back to his heroic origins
@VoidTofu 90s Ben is the entire reason I started reading comics. I started with clone wars, but luckily the comic shop owner was more than happy to talk Spider-Man.
@@aka.radstatic I mean that’s true but the current Ben Reilly (prior to becoming Chasm) still had all his memories of his time as both the Scarlet Spider and Spider-man as well as memories of all his deaths. While the body is without a doubt not the same they’ve made it clear his mind and more importantly his soul is the same one he’s always had, if the argument is the current Ben is not the real Ben then sadly all the core X-Men as well as many of the mutant villains are also no longer the real versions of those characters and I’d rather not play that game not to mention Cap is not the real Cap, Tony is not the real Tony etc
@@Wezt334 I’m just annoyed that they could have fixed everything at the end of Dark Web… Jean Grey was RIGHT THERE. Ben deserves a lot better then how he’s being written
i miss Penance's original plan of just being a mute refugee from Yugoslavia - the whole convolution of the St Croix fam was just too much, and by that point, i was just collecting because i was a completist. M had always been "perfect", a joke that had been her power, and that should've been enough, but NOPE! NOW, she gets all of those previous powers AND to take Penance form...? ugh. and with X-Men: Blue's revelation, i'm happy what i'd always hoped has been confirmed!!! Azazel was yet another misstep in X-Lore, including making Abyss "family".
Great video. I legit forgot about Chasm after he got his feelings stomped on by Madelyn Pryor. That’s for covering this issue.
I didn't forget him per se, but I felt the whole event that brought him to that point was forced or weakly written, so I can't fault anyone for him fading from memory real quick. Lol
Well Cannonball was revealed to be an X-ternal sometime ago so him being resurrected isn't a shock
AoA Abyss was awesome! It wasn't until everyone learned who Kurt's father was that his extended family was revealed. Nils Styger aka Abyss; Marcus Skarr aka Kiwi Black.
I thought that Cannonball was an External, which meant he would eventually come back to life on his own.
Yeah that was like a whole big thing as I recall now it seems like other writers have forgotten this !
@@davids2427same thought. Both Cannonball and Dazzler have/had abilities to bring themselves back, but right when Mutant Resurrection became a thing so many characters seem to have "forgotten" they can come back on their own, or that they're more durable than they're being portrayed and could survive worse (looking at you Wolverine).
@@bajansamurai If I remember right, Nightcrawler also has this "ability" and it was forgotten about too : He became magically immortal/immune to death by sacrificing his soul (permanently) and has been unable to access Heaven after coming back to life in 2014. (In short, giving up his soul resurrected him and he made this sacrifice knowingly and willingly to his Bamfs.)
Ever since HoX/PoX tho, he has been shown to not only be able to go through the resurrection process now (which shouldn't be needed due to his condition), he has a soul and can access the mutant Afterlife... Yet he still apparently went through that aforementioned first death, mentions losing his soul while not knowing what a Bamf is (period) and is currently using the same soul he previously permanently lost ?
It seems the editors were on strike before the strike for Nightcrawler, Dazzler and Cannonball.
@@spinningtornado4543 lol. Yup re:The Striking Editors. That said, I believe that in some cases, they consciously revised canon to allow for certain story beats to apply. Some of it based on the universe resetting in the last Secret Wars, the rest based on the idea that most of those things we know from X-history occurred in one of Moira's lives, but then repeated again with slightly to massively different outcomes in others.
For example, it is probably meant to be that Nightcrawler still died, got resurrected in a similar process, but either didn't have to trade off his soul or regained it (offscreen). I'm not clear on if giving up his soul to resurrect resulted in him being immune to death entirely though, just that it was an act of giving up heaven that kept him from reentering (which mean consignment to a different afterlife or below place). I can see that revision being "requested" because it looks like they had a plan in place to put Kurt through the ringer.
With Cannonball and Dazzler, they should have kept those things intact though (Cannonball's External status at least - Dazzler's ability didn't really get explained).
@@bajansamurai I see what you mean but I guess my main point here is that an entire arc and character exploration, brought up as far as 2018 (even 2020 so post Secret Wars) for Nightcrawler has been nullified, rendered meaningless and very much filled with plotholes.
As for the soul deal, it gave Nightcrawler super efficient regeneration and immunity to death as the soul was traded for a body with these properties : It was the only way him coming back to life would matter on the long run.
He could not go to any Afterlife actually, not Heaven or Hell.
I appreciate this video, because unfortunately, I'm a huge Ben Reilly fan. Have been since the beginning, and any chance of righting his ship remotely, I'm here for. Glad he didn't take in with Mutant-Demon-Nazis.
Great video! I have not loved Chasm, I am not sure if I missed some of his story or something or if its just Ben is made again. You know I want the Kane/Scarlet Spider back in the spotlight!
Agreed 💯 percent ✅🕷🕷🕷
Seriously! I miss Kaine for sure. I like the old Ben but Kaine definitely brought a dope and unique vibe to the Scarlet Spider!
@@steviefranks1812 W0rD and a half ! 🕷🕷🕷
Is this the same Abyss that was a horseman of Apocalypse in the age of Apocalypse?
Blerd I figured it out at least I think I got it, it just hit me looking at the depictions of Penance and Emplate I think maybe have a mixture of Azazel in them or demon, they also resemble Blackheart the tendril like hair similar power set.
Why is abyss green now? Is there a reason or did they just decide to change him?
X-Men comics haven't been that consistent in their lore, character designs and powersets for awhile now.
I recall distinctly that an enormous coloring issue similar to this happened to Exodus through Krakoa : He basically changed colors from one panel to another within the same issue.
You also had Destiny constantly changing hair color from pure black, to brown to light brown without any explanation being given to it.
I guess they just don't care ?
Is this Abyss similar to the Abyss from AoA?? Also, we gotta remember that Spider-Man might want some getback on Orchis for them kidnapping Mary Jane before the 2022 Hellfire Gala.
Yup. Same Abyss (more specifically the 616 version). As for the MJ thing, I almost forgot about that and I feel the Spidey and X Offices completely did. 😅
I liked AoA Abyss better his sense of humor was better and had a more engaging personality.
I predicted that Chasm was going to be joining the X-Men in some capacity as soon as he was put under Madelyns supervision.
Hated how marvel throw chasm aka Ben Reilly under the bus
I am worry that chasm may have to watch his back after he erased Eddie Brock memory
And it turn him into bedlam the king in black
And been a king in black let’s just say Ben could be in trouble.
After all he's done lately he's got it coming big time and yes you could Argue he. Is not himself but what was the excuse when he took over as the Jackle ? With all that Nobody dies Clap trap When he he was getting served by Kain I couldn't help but think FINALLY someone is holding him accountable for at least some of the Bad things he's been caught doing and it pains me to have this opinion because I've always loved the character but seeing what he's becoming .....I dunno I truly want Ben to have a redemption arch to see him fight the good fight to be the hero ...he's always should have been Same for Kain ...sorry for the spider -rant 🕷
I wonder will chasm try to take Maddie throne again and become king chasm
Great video
"Memory where house".🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm a Havok fan. I kinda just follow him, hence me reading this.
Do you/anyone think Havok will play a substantial enough roll for me to bother picking it up?
There's only one issue left for this mini sadly and Havok hasn't been that great or gotten his time to shine due to how big the cast is.
If it turns out things get better for him, I'll tell you.
@@spinningtornado4543 that's a very kind offer. I appreciate it but I don't hold you to it. 🙏
@@DCPatrol I came back like promised and Havok hasn't done much there sadly.
At least, he's still alive.
@@spinningtornado4543 you're too kind. Thanks for the heads up!
I don't think Havok is dead. I think she got too him right before he died but whatever spell she is using is not holding him together very well. If he were dead and brought him back she would've done it for Angel or some of the Morlocks. I really think she caught Havok at the brink of death.
Ben Reilly died a hero’s death at the end of the clone saga. I kinda wish they would just end this chasm stuff and bring back scarlet spider.
I mean we technically still have a Scarlet Spider in Kaine, but yes I agree Ben has been Marvels punching bag for too long and deserves to be brought back to his heroic origins
@VoidTofu 90s Ben is the entire reason I started reading comics. I started with clone wars, but luckily the comic shop owner was more than happy to talk Spider-Man.
@@aka.radstatic I mean that’s true but the current Ben Reilly (prior to becoming Chasm) still had all his memories of his time as both the Scarlet Spider and Spider-man as well as memories of all his deaths. While the body is without a doubt not the same they’ve made it clear his mind and more importantly his soul is the same one he’s always had, if the argument is the current Ben is not the real Ben then sadly all the core X-Men as well as many of the mutant villains are also no longer the real versions of those characters and I’d rather not play that game not to mention Cap is not the real Cap, Tony is not the real Tony etc
@@Wezt334 I’m just annoyed that they could have fixed everything at the end of Dark Web… Jean Grey was RIGHT THERE. Ben deserves a lot better then how he’s being written
@@peacecraft2149 I completely agree
YEs!!!! Excellent review!
Chasam is locked in limbo??
When orchids free chasm from that dimension and chasm turn them down
Did chasm escape the mansion where he was held.
I couldn't tell either. It looked to me at first like he just walked back into his cell, and I honestly never re-read it to think otherwise.
This was sweet 😊
ha! now you're going to have to update this with the new Kurt background.
Don't make this man suffer more than he should.
i miss Penance's original plan of just being a mute refugee from Yugoslavia - the whole convolution of the St Croix fam was just too much, and by that point, i was just collecting because i was a completist. M had always been "perfect", a joke that had been her power, and that should've been enough, but NOPE! NOW, she gets all of those previous powers AND to take Penance form...? ugh.
and with X-Men: Blue's revelation, i'm happy what i'd always hoped has been confirmed!!! Azazel was yet another misstep in X-Lore, including making Abyss "family".
I don’t think I’m here for the dead X-men thing 🤔
I'm still on the fence about it.
And Havok is completely b1tched-out these days
Outside of cannonball, its not a very impressive lineup