Drew Gibson Speaks Up On Controversy At Champions Cup Disc Golf Tournament
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2024
- The first major of the disc golf season is officialy over and Drew Gibson has some words for the PDGA and DGPT. Swiss and Jefferson break down everything Champions Cup you need to know only on the Disc Golf World
Tags:
#discgolf #discgolfing #pdga #dgpt #frisbee #disc #prodiscgolf #innovadisc #discraft #dynamicdiscs #discmania #discgolfprotour
This footage has been officially licensed from the Disc Golf Pro Tour pursuant to a license as a part of their content creator affiliate program. The duplication or unsanctioned distribution of this content is strictly prohibited. The DGPT is the sole owner of the rights to all media recorded on Tournament Premises during a DGPT Event. For the purpose of clarity, all media rights in and to the Tournament and Surrounding Events, including rights to all forms of audio, video, and photography, taken on-premises, are held exclusively by DGPT. To license media from the DGPT, reach out to production@dgpt.com.
The Disc Golf Network is the LIVE streaming platform for professional disc golf. With over 30 events on the schedule, the Disc Golf Network offers over 1400 hours of live disc golf in 2023. Join today to catch all the action from the Disc Golf Pro Tour, PDGA Pro Majors, and the PDGA Euro Tour. Plus, watch a host of cinematic content focusing on your favorite players, courses, and moments. Disc golf happens LIVE on the Disc Golf Network. Subscribe today - บันเทิง
Ohn should be the ideal attitude for golf for the FPO. She’s always celebrating players that beat her and I love her for that. It isn’t about winning to her and that’s part of why she’s so good at it. So much energy.
Love Ohn for all that and her mad putting and destroy flinging skills. Let's go Ohn!
I live in the area AND had the days off. My reason for not attending was money. What is a major reason for disc golf becoming my favorite sport?Fellowship and Money. Play for free. Go to the big tournaments when they are near and watch the pros, for free. Charging that much is going to destroy attendance. The sport is being squeezed for money when it used to be all about the thrill of the game.
Lol how much were they charging?
Same here. I live ten minutes from Northwood and was drooling to see a pro event until I learned of the ticket prices. Twenty or thirty bucks isn’t really a lot these days but with threatening weather and a heavily wooded course would I get my money’s worth? It’s not like I’m seeing Augusta National or Fenway Park. I can walk around Northwood Park any day. I also see the other side of the story; the prize money should be higher so where does it come from?
@@MJVelpel 20-30 dollars is a lot of money considering chicken costs as much as it does, and for it to be really worth it getting a hotel and staying for at least the last two days you're in it for 200 bucks off the rip. @MJVelpel I feel like entry fee should be like cheap cheap $5 bucks or something (like I don't even get to freaking play for crying out loud). They would make money on concessions and disc/merch sales I'm sure. Sell a little commemorative mini for 10 bucks and they're making money for sure (or at least offsetting the tourney costs assuming a few hundred ppl show up). A lot more than I'm sure vendors made this week at least. Do find it kind of worrying given that its dead center of 3 major population centers (2ish hours between Morton and Indy, Chicago, St Louis) and even with the weather that was the turnout? (dg fans are psychos that play in blizzards a lil rain shouldnt be an issue). I aint paying 30 dollars to stand in a field and watch other people play I guess. Plus I'd rather watch post round coverage with a few beers at home.
Yes, exactly and is $30 per day not $30 for whole tournament or even $X for overall and $30 per day where buying $X is a better deal. Yes, I know Course had to have limits on people watching but yeah what is going on is asking for more and more over the years.
@@MJVelpel Yes but here is deal $30 per day is a bit high with no discount for buying all 3 days, then given hard rain no wonder nobody showed up as most were on the fence about going already. However, nobody can predict weather issues so... those are a fluke, rest is not so much.
I find it wild nate heinold is allowed to have have as many roles as he does between pdga leadership and dgpt TD roles.
It really is wild! My initial reaction is how is this possible? It may be more about how few people are willing and able to effectively manage large events. Nate's roles have increased beyond what we'd consider normal in part because he is good at it AND there's a need not filled. I'm happy he's there and unhappy a balance is not there.
Yep. I don't mind that he has a prominent role in disc golf. Its the fact that he has multiple prominent roles in disc golf that benefit each other.
With that horrible police officer sideburn cut look. Dude should be banished from disc golf.
Nate owns Ledgestone insurance he’s probably feeding the PDGA money but nothing compared to what he’s getting in the end.
I fully support Udisc starting a competing league.
Lets fix these issue with competition and break this monopoly
$75/day to be able to see anything didn’t help attendance
Wow! For VIP?
@@piercegormley8644 yep, for Saturday
$30
@@Barry_MaCockener I was there. It was 75 for vip which got you access to most of the holes. The other tickets did not
75 on Sat and sun, 50 the other 2 days. A little steep considering you can go see mainstream sporting events for that much or even less.
So proud Presnel. Dudes been grinding so hard.
I was there! First time attending in person and it did shock me how few fans were there, especially at the 1st tee. I showed up at 9:00 to catch the FPO lead card and had a shuttle from the parking lot all to myself. It was muddy mess out there, but I don’t think that was the cause of the low attendance. One item I noted from the coverage is that no one showed Ricky being absolutely robbed on hole 11. His disc went straight through the heart of the chains. The look on his face was complete disbelief. With him still in the hunt at that point, seems odd no one showed it. Luckily I do have a nice video of it.
honestly the mnore i hear drew speaking out the more i like him as hes bringing up real issues and willing to do something about it by running for the governing body.
Real Issue is Baskets tooo large too easy
It's like saying it's too windy to play.The guy in first place is smashing. Its the guy in last place is the one complaining about the wind😂😂😂😂😂or How the baskets are different and it's kicking his disc out. That's funny the guy in first place is not complaining at all
drew complains every week, because he can't cash. he needs to hit the local b or c tiers if he wants to win anything
Charging $$$ just discourages attendance. I'm playing Ledgestone. I'm not going to spectate the pro's because I'm already out $$$$ for lodging/travel.
I agree. Unfortunately, dgpa along with many others have gotten very greedy since Covid and it shows. We’re all excited about the sport growing but unfortunately it’s coming at the expense of the fans and amateur players 😢
35 year player here, I refuse to attend at the price they want! Cmon man....20 dollars would get 5 times more people. Instead pro tour charges 80 plus. Now way way way less customers show up to spend money.
Beer is free at almost every event for spectators.
@@user-oh7lv3fy5lno it’s not!
Are there any other professional sports you can spectate for free???????? That’s a ridiculous statement
Great insights on the "complaining." Much appreciated.
ALL the best to Drew Gibson for speaking and bringing attention to the problems that exist,,, Without the voicing of his concerns, and other concerns by players, nothing will change... WHERE IS THE INPUT BY PLAYERS TO HELP AGREE ON THE BASKETS, AND THE DESIGN/ SAFETY OF THE TEE PADS. THERE SHOULD BE CONSISTENCY IN THE BASKETS USED, AND THE BASKETS SHOULD NOT HAVE INHERENT FLAWS, SUCH AS THE ONE POINTED OUT BY DREW. I HOPE THE POWERS THAT BE SET A STANDARD FOR THE TEE PADS, AT LEAST WHERE SAFETY IS THE PRIME FOCUS... THOSE ELEVATED PADS ARE AN ACCIDENT JUST WAITING TO RUIN SOMEONE'S LIFE ...
Not a fan of prioritizing in person spectators by holding tournaments at ball golf courses. Not a fan of uDisc getting replaced by PDGA live. Not a fan of players having to risk injury on super shitty tee pads. Not a fan of baskets that aren't even assembled properly. Not a fan of DGN still kinda sucking even though I pay for the premium subscription. Not a fan of Jomez, Gatekeeper, GK Pro not covering EVERY major tournament like the old days. A lotta bullshit these days and a lot of backwards momentum.
The guiding light should always involve healthy competitors playing the best courses in the world and viewers at home having a great experience watching it go down.
"Allowing for more spit-outs than Riley Reid!"
I nearly spit out my coffee when he said that. What entertaining anecdotes this guy gives.
I met Prez last year at the Portland Open, super nice guy. He looks a lot bigger in person.
Price startes at 30 dollars a day to be able to go to like half the holes to watch.
We also had a local c tier that was scheduled last year, and we did 1 round each morning. But this is also the reason no one went.
And tbh, there is some animosity between the local peoria players and Ledgestone. Ledstone took over Illinois Ams Championship anf price went from around like 100 up to almost 200 for the same bag all of us got at ledgestone.
Also many players and fans were volunteers for the event.
If thia would have been at eureka temp, many more people would have came, bc its usually free and there isnt a huge limit on people attending like at Northwood.
Players need to form a Union. It would nearly immediately eliminate all these issues. Standard baskets, teepads, and weather condition rules written into a contract. It's that simple.
The tees should definitely have flat run offs on the end. This deck thing is just putting the pros at risk
No doubt, I saw quite a few going off at the end. Not good.
Seriously not good.
Insanity! I can't believe they didn't figure that out before Waco and then just put the players at risk like that. It's SOOO bad.
how hard is it to stop before the end of the pad? same as a lie in the fairway, you stop short from stepping on your lie..i have seen people break ankles going off the end to get that extra few inches on their drive, just hard headed i guess
Was great seeing you guys at Champions cup! Keep up the good work
Disc golfers hate their own sport more than anyone in any other sport, lol
It's extremely wild to me how few tournaments are in the northeast. Especially here in PA with some crazy unique, majestic courses. The tri-state area of NY, PA, NJ has crazy population density and an epic amount of fans on top of the amazing, tough courses. Gotta aim for population density for fans to come out. And sure, udisc or whatever might say that there are more "serious" fans or whatever in rural areas, because they use apps/udisc, but when you have crazy population density near urban areas, and so many players, its just that a ton of people dont use apps like udisc and stuff. Theres way more to do here, so even though we're huge fans, for a lot of people its more casual and not their entire life.
Maybe im crazy, idk
Disc Golf is fun, go out, have fun and do your best
How many people are subscribed to DGN? I'll tell ya. About 3500 people. That's literally nothing. How many people do you think are going to pay to watch people throw Frisbee in a public park? Disc dorks. And there's not many of them. Want a crowd? Free entry. You're in a public park.
The irony being that when the tournaments were free, the crowds were getting out of control. Makes sense to charge some sort of fee, especially when expectations for payout keep going up, the trick is finding the sweet spot.
It could also be that people are learning that watching DG live is actually more of a chore than they first realized.
DGN (dgtv?) has more than 10x that sub count.
@@d3sist68 dgn has 3500 paid subscribers. You can literally Google this stuff.
@nolowputts jomez being superior to any live stream disc golf. GK pro is right up there too. Wouldn't you rather have a PGA type crowd that buys concessions and merch or 100 people that split up to watch different cards? It's greed bro. It will always be greed.
I paid for a couple of months last year as I was desperate to see Worlds etc. Didn’t realise there was no playback feature. I work on Sundays so I missed every final day. Costs a similar amount to Netflix….offers a little less!
I also think they should go back to a 5-7 round tournament for Major’s. It’s a little more balancing than someone getting lucky for 2 days.
Disc golf will improve immeasurably on the day Nate Heinold is pushed out of power. Setting aside his broken course designs and fundie horseshit, his self-dealing is an active hindrance on the industry.
Your channel is progressing nicely. Keep it up fellas.
The craziest part about wet tee pads is they just need to spend 20 minutes in the morning with a leaf blower.
Good call! Also a lot of times tee pads are covered with dirt and debris and you see players using their towels to brush them off. Why wouldn’t there be a broom by all the pads so someone could do a quick sweep between cards?
Or 5 mins with a gas torch....
This was the first event I have ever attended. I was only there on Saturday. I agree that the audience was sparse. But, I think that was primarily due to the bad weather forecast. Regardless of the weather, I had an absolute blast, got a bunch of signatures, witnessed an Ace of Hole 1 and got to follow ULI and Jerm on the same card. I know it sucks for the tour when its not well attended, but I'd take all that again in a heartbeat.
Low attendance due to the weather
Brody, Drew and others like them have good points but they need to take a step back and do the math. They think the sport is on the level with the PGA but it still has a long way to go. Everything takes time and money... money being the most important aspect. To properly update all the courses used with new very large sized all weather tee pads is an expensive undertaking. Do they want the DGN / DGPT to pay for them... I'd be willing to bet they're losing money every year at this point. Their model probably projects out 10 to 20 years before they'll make money or sell the company at a profit. Keep making good points but realize... there is a lot involved before a full consensus on tee pad sizes, cost, how they fit on the courses themselves.
Putting requires alot of touch. My practice basket doesn't have as many chains as others and it definitely takes more touch. It's great practice.
I would have watched yhe live coverage more but my LG TV doesn't have a app for it and the Xbox app no longer works. I'm not buying a roku just to watch a tournament. Plus I really don't need to hear Nate Doss find a way to include himself in every story
Yep, Bobby Hill has gotten really annoying.
@@stmn346 gotten annoying? he was from the start, not sure why people think he is a great commentator
Oof. Incorrectly installed baskets is a new one to me, but it probably isn't a new one for the players who know.
The baskets looked good in the videos. Not sure what they were talking about.
A standard basket seems logical.
No one at Jonesboro? There were a couple of hundred people every day. Provide numbers and context
Probably that the smallest tournaments in Europe gets more people then huge majors in the US. PDGA is cancer for the growth of the sport.
That’s not a lot…
Cmon a few hundred is pitiful
So I noticed some slippage on the new tee pads. They appeared to me as being more hazardous because players were told they would have more grip when they were wet.
That is not the case, and they are lucky no one got injured because a lawsuit would be forthcoming.
Basically from what I understand they work great, if they are installed properly. They even said if they were not, it could be an issue. Well there were issues.
Who's installing there things?
Of course the event was poorly attended, as soon as Wednesday last week the weather was showing rain the entire weekend. I live within an hour of northwoods, and just didn't want to risk it if it was going to be ruined by bad conditions.
Same I’m 20 mins from Morton and didn’t go. But was really wondering how they were doing in the weather
Hour away still doesn't know the course name 📛
How⁰ Did Climo Win 14 world titles?? 5 usdgc Wins when Baskets require Finesse,,Todays baskets are wide open you can hit them Blindall Thru 90s90s2000s Climos Reign can't say I ever heard him Complain..Try useing old baskets and you'll Love musicCitys
Played all 36 holes at Silver Creek today. Did you get a chance to play it when you went to Silver Cup?
Drew is 100% right. A professional sport should have standardization.
What happened to the Austin Hannum video??
Maybe not the best to use Uli in the case for pros speaking out against bad equipment. His most recent take on baskets is quite the opposite. Overall though yes I do agree he will speak out if something is wrong, but this was a bad example to use him on.
what was his take? I heard him say that people need to putt softer and the baskets aren't supposed to catch everything especially super fast putts. I thought that sounded good to me and good for the sport. Was there more?
@@davidlasky214 that was pretty much the overall gist of it. He put a lot of emphasis on putting without spit outs is a learned skill. The basket doesn't matter the player does. And he's actually got insane putting stats to back up the talk. So when Drew complains about too many spit outs from badly designed baskets, it goes against the opinion of Uli.
Come on! Reily Reid doesn’t spit out
It looks like it's time to unionize a players association. That is how every other professional sports handle the issues between them, and the "decision makers".
I keep commenting on the basket situation and will do so until there is action. There should be ONE standard basket and be mounted exactly the same height from the ground (or whatever surface). The chains should be the exact same gauge and with the same finish (chrome plated or galvanized). The vertical support members of the basket should be butt welded to the upper ring, not wrapped around forming a nub. Ball golf has standard targets to aim for. Imagine if the cup varied from hole to hole and course to course. The millionaire golfers would revolt. Same goes for the baskets.
Who was Raliegh Reed? I've been playing since 1997 and never heard of him.
I wish Hugh Frisbin would chime in on this.
Low blow on the Silver Cup considering it was in the middle of the pandemic and we were lucky we could even host an event let alone have spectators..
Storms and the weather, as well as a latish change in location means that turnout is obviously going to be down. It sucks, but thats the way it is.
If r/discgolf is giving you backlash you are on the right track.
Live coverage was good. Still figuring things out
Uli said it best. Putt with touch. Learn it. It’s a skill.
It makes sense to finish the round as much as possible then play the rest in the morning. That's been SOP for disc golf for a while. Heinold holding all the power isn't great though, in spite of all that he has done for disc golf.
Subscribed and liked!!! Thank you! - fellow discgenerate
It's only the people that are losing that need everything change for their benefit
He's not saying oh. Yeah i'm in first place but the baskets need to be changed.lol
We'll ask the person who won.. If the baskets were a problem i'm gonna say no. Ask the person who lost if the baskets were a problem they're gonna say yes
So why did all of Simon's putt go in at the music city tournament? Actually many of the lead card there had 100% c1x
awesome😃😃😃
Place Mike Nelson in charge, He would make a great Organizer
No doubt, the European ladies are taking over.
Good, the Euro women are improving their game. Most, but not all, US players are milking the pro tour.
It's like Paul said, learn touch. Everyone else had to play in the same conditions. Git good.
I agree with the power tripping PDGA though. They turned "grow the sport" into "exploit the sport".
Should be free. Make money from concessions and product. Disc golf isn't big enough to charge like that. And be like every other sport. Show the effing final round not the first...who makes these decisions?????
More spit outs like Riley Reid....lmfao
People, in general, will never be 100% happy with, well, anything. Even free money and backrubs would bring out complaints.
lots of money for less access and interaction with the pros than we used to have. I’d pay money for more things like champs vs chumps, play with a pro, etc. It was fun a few years ago being able to follow cards around jones park in Emporia, but the country club (now named Champion’s Landing) is so roped off, it just lost the special feeling. Sorry DGPT, but I have other things Id rather spend that money on. A couple discs will bring me many more hours of enjoyment. I live in Emporia, but I’m not sure if I’m going to go out to watch or not. I’d rather just play a casual round of my own.
Hey we are trying here in the west do not hate.
Nate saying the 12th makes the best players rise to the top...😂. Think Gannon played that hole +5 all weekend, hole sucks. The drive is what is terrible there, it shouldn't be that shitty turnover to a landing zone. Needs too be more open so they can bite off more and try to get up on top of the hill in two. Probably less than 3 birdies on that hole all four days. They had a stat that hole 12 had been played almost 900 times before that tournament and had only TWELVE birdies since it started on tour, only 9 people have birdied it, 3 people twice, holes meh🎉.
sounds like a good hole to me, getting a birdie every hole is boring golf to play and watch
Bad weather, bad course for viewer experience, very little room for crowds, poor pricing considering those factors. Yeah I can see how there was low attendance. I don't even like watching coverage of courses like northwood, half of the holes you might get a good look at what the pros are seeing/doing. If they get off the fairways, you're basically guessing. There's a reason why despite the moaning of the oldheads, disc golf is going more towards open courses with designed OB's/hazards and less trees. Plinko golf also isn't fun to watch/play when lead cards are decided by who's getting lucky or not more often than normal. Having a super punishing course is cool and all, and I'm all for "keeping numbers low" for the people who hate seeing double digit score cards, but I'd rather it not be at the expense of us, the paying and watching customer.
"More spit outs than Riley Reed" 😮
They need concrete, if they can’t have concrete tees, they shouldn’t play that course for a pro tour event.
Oh wow, a new controversy like we don't get that E V E R Y tournament.
I was watching the third round on my date Saturday night but we've been together long enough that she knows what's up.
Foundation really lives rent free in your heads don’t they?
Attendance would enhance the product. Lower ticket prices would get 2000 more customers at the event. Stupid prices keeping lifers from attending.
disc golf isn't at a level that allows for charging money to watch irl.
fake it till you make it isnt the way
Why would the make a professional basket but leave the inner chains up so high?
They were installed incorrectly and no one addressed it. Pretty dumb.
No doubt, the pdgas forst interest should be members. No members, no pdga.
What a co-inky-dink that the tournament gets moved from it's traditional location and happens to fall right into the lap of the director. crazy.
The players need a union. It's the only way they can gain any sort of leverage and hold the administration accountable. Otherwise, you're powerless to their agenda.
Riley 😂😭
So many bad takes in this vid. Drew is delusional. He needs to get his game together before he can improve the Pro Tour. The weather was awful across 2/3rds of North America this weekend. Unless the tourney was in California or Arizona it was going to be windy cold and rainy.
Lastly, I choose course over spectators. You just can't have a ton of spectators at Northwoods. That's why they do the final round of Ledgestone at Lake Eureka. Northwoods is sick and deserves respect. Unless they put people in zeppelins to float over the course watching through binoculars you won't be able to have non-VIP spectators watching.
it's so easy to say "Standardize the basket!" but don't understand what comes with that like patent law and since they play at a bunch of places that have established pins, who's gonna pay to switch those out for all the stops or do they only use them for places that use movable pins? do only pros play with standard tees? who owns the patent for the standardized pin? who's design do you choose? who and how do they decide the design of the pin? one style of pin works best for spin putters while others work best for laser putts. Some stops are known and difficult for their "tough" pins, are the old heads willing to step down and drop tradition and history for the sport for it to grow?
I’m a little more progressive in my view. I believe that to progress the sport and increase the talent, the tray must shrink.
I’m not alone in this idea. Paul McBeth points this out about the baskets as well. They were designed to catch ultimate frisbees.
Just ponder that for a moment.
Name the last time you watched a video of Calvin heinberg bitching about baskets. never!!!!😅😅😅😅 Maybe you just need to get a little better
Pro tour needs new management. Schedule the first half of the season on the West Coast where weather is not a problem. I have no interest in watching low quality conditions and play and a bad quality live broadcast. Serious problems with their strategy, I have cancelled my live stream subscription and it's not a cost problem.
I spectated at Northwood at a previous DGPT. Terrible experience. Ill never pay to watch again. Cant go here, cant go there, best not flinch at the wrong time. Cant see where the disc goes without a catchcam. No thanks!
Who cares what drew gigs on has to say. When is the last time he’s won something to have a voice
when does he even cash?
As far as crowds go...it was the weather partially. The other was the difficulty of the course. Great shots were hard to come by.
People come too see preformance, but not a lot of dings off trees.
A lot of the great shots were pure luck honestly.
People dont come too see luck.
❤Question. My thought would be perhaps one FPO and MPO player should serve on the board of the Pdga. The players voices should be heard in my opinion. Anyone agree? My vote would be Drew Gibson and Catrina Allen 🤷🏼♀️
There already is such representation that reports to the board. I believe Ulibarri is a current player rep.
Gruns gummies.
Liv disc golf. Make it happen
a course like this definitely doesn't work for inperson viewing.. and this definitely felt like who plays the least worst and simultaneously gets the most lucky. taking nothing away from the winners but this is the least enjoyable watching experience on tour. Northwood needs 2 courses.
Jokes. Best course on tour. Great to finally see the pros challenged.
Nothing about Northwood Black or this year's Champions Cup was fun to watch. It is in NO way a substitute for WR Jackson and to say so is the biggest insult. They could've drove to Charlotte and had a buffet of choices of courses that closer resemble Jackson but we know it's all about what Heinold wants obviously. I'm just saying, after the past 2 weeks, there is a depressing vibe coming from the Pro Tour, mostly due to this past weekend but all the "power grabs" the pdga has done this year has dramatically drained the vibe of what was once on a parabolic rise to now being a resemblance of the crypto market, it's having major bowel movements and it stinks. Btw, I think hole 12 is an awesome hole and would definitely make a dream 18, it's hole 14 that is dogshit but really only because the 1000 trees near the basket, and that's the theme that really has me Disliking this course for any more than 2 rounds a tournament, take out the luck factor due to blind center fairway trees, clean it up and make it legit.
Man, a lot of crying from this tournament. I thought it was great, as a spectator, fan, and disc golfer (Northwood Black is in my backyard), I enjoyed watching the pros be challenged at the highest level and experience Illinois spring weather. Northwood is much different in the spring than the summer. People forget that Nate is a pro disc golfer too and competes. He does more good for the sport than arguably anyone. But I do agree with a lot of what Drew is saying. And the PDGA scoring sucks, UDisc was much better.
The baskets don't have a different amount of chains. He's wrong. The baskets at Champions Landing have a smaller lower ring with allow the "mushroom" look to go away and bring the chains in closer.
all this drew dude does is complain he aint that great yeah can throw bombs but never in a real disc company team and always is in the top 50 in tournaments
More spit outs than Riley Reid is crazy😭😭
Seriously? The pros are complaining about spit outs, bounce outs or fall throughs? Here's a hint. Stop slamming your putts. If you hit a putt in ball golf too hard? It goes over the hole and out the back or you get a lip out. The pros today putt so fing hard!! I think putts should come out if hit too hard.. I would like to put on a pro tourney on with single, 12 chain baskets like we had in the old days--they would never complain again ever. Putting should be an art form with touch like in ball golf- not a slam it as hard as you can and it sticks every time. It should be subtle, easy with feel #3948
P.S. and they would have to play with xd's aero's, 86 molds, 91 molds and moonlighters and my fav super puppies with that special stamp on it California's #1 cash crop on it. I have a few left never been thrown
Did you just say Riley Reid?!! 🤣🤣🤣 Dude, you gotta really listen for these references. 🔥
That was 😶 hahaha
Cringe
Greed continues to ruin the sport